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A Moderate Holocaust Denier

Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 9:43:03 am PST

Yasser Arafat’s right-hand man Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, is often described as a “moderate” Palestinian leader. European Union windbags recently praised Arafat’s proposal to appoint him as the Palestinian prime minister puppethead. He has described the stupidfada as “a mistake” and called for a stop to suicide bombings.

And he is also a Holocaust denier.

The candidate is Mahmoud Abbas (also known as Abu Mazen), Arafat's second in command, and his book, published in Arabic in 1983, translates as "The Other Side: The Secret Relations Between Nazism and the Leadership of the Zionist Movement." It was originally his doctoral dissertation, completed at Moscow Oriental College.

The book repeatedly attempts to cast doubt on the fact that the Nazis slaughtered 6 million Jews, according to a translation provided by the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.

"Following the war," he writes, "word was spread that six million Jews were amongst the victims and that a war of extermination was aimed primarily at the Jews...The truth is that no one can either confirm or deny this figure. In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller -- below one million."

Abbas denies that the gas chambers were used to murder Jews, quoting a "scientific study" to that effect by French Holocaust-denier Robert Faurisson.

Abbas' book then asserts: "The historian and author Raoul Hilberg thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000."

That is, of course, utterly false. Hilberg, a distinguished historian and author of the classic study "The Destruction of the European Jews," has never said or written any such thing.

Disgusting is not too strong a word. Yet here is how the BBC’s profile of Mahmoud Abbas describes his literary efforts:

A highly intellectual man, Abu Mazen studied law in Egypt before doing a PhD in Moscow. He is the author of several books.
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1 AG in Houston  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:46:14am

First!

Holocaust deniers are the bottom of the barrel.

2 nobody important  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:49:13am

They are in the slime underneath the barrel.

3 blackdog  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:49:15am

Close eyes, cover ears and hum. Doesn't that make nasty things like the Holocaust disappear?

4 Gomez  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:51:31am
Abbas' book then asserts: "The historian and author Raoul Hilberg thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000."

From a humanitarian point of view, this is still enough to justify the creation of a powerful state of Israel.

5 mnkeyboy  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:51:58am

New BBC description:

A. Hitler, a decorated veteran who studied art in Austria, is also a published author.

I do enjoy Andrew Sullivan's new war on the BBC.

6 Colt  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:52:30am

al-Hudaybiyah, Arafat's vision of peace. ([Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

This guy seems perfectly suited to the job, ie, nobody important (#2) hit it right on the head.

7 Ariel  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:52:53am

Well, the BBC profiles also describe Sharon as hardline while heaping praise on Arafat. So I could hardly characterize myself as being surprised.

8 Gomez  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:54:01am

Perhaps I should rephrase that: Lowering the death toll from seven digits to six, does not take away from the importance of the tragedy and certainly does not delegitimize Israel's existence.

9 Nikolakis  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:57:54am

Damn it I am not FIRST anymore,

Rumors ha, kinda like the 4000 Jews and the WTC.....

10 Henry S.  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 7:58:44am

The New York Times recently characterized Abbas as "a lawyer and historian".

I'm not surprised that the NYT would whitewash this fuck.

Abbas denies that the gas chambers were used to murder Jews, quoting a "scientific study" to that effect by French Holocaust-denier Robert Faurisson.

I'll be happy to send copies of my father's personal photos of the "showers", ovens, and their aftermath to Abbas.

11 Nikolakis  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:03:40am

I've heard that one can get a degree from the former Soviet Union, by bribing profs with cooking oil, candy, and other goodies. Not bad!

12 Ranbutan  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:14:49am

Slightly OT

MSNBC is reporting that Bush is set to give a Major Policy Speech tonight linking Iraq to ME Peace..as in... as soon as the War is over, the US joins with other members of the Quartet in making ME Peace between Israel and the Pals our next priority.

Bush's Administration has heard this from every country (cept maybe Israel) that it is imperative to do this to both manage Iraq post-war and reverse the tremendous wave of Anti-Americanism hitting the globe.

Abbas is one of the Pals the Quartet seeks to work with. Today, Sharon canned Netanyahu as foreign minister...an event that could be Sharon solidifying political control or clearing the way to enter Peace discussions w/o Netanyahu's blockage.

It will be interesting to see who Bush favors on the ME initiative. Powell & Blair, or Rummy and his Warhawks that include the band of past Netanyahu advisors now known as the American Likudniks?

I'm thinking Bush is going to lean towards Powell & Blair...especially to aid key ally Blair's political survival...he is now close to being voted out of office by his own party. A solid ME plan, backing the Quartet, keeping Russia, the UN, and the EU bound to that vision will help dispell bad feelings in the 3 Quartet members about the US & Iraq.

Israel is also going to be coming hat in hand for another 14 billion dollars soon, to bail out their failing socialist economy, so the US has leverage with them.

Wait and See. This should get interesting. As most LGF posters know, the Quartet Plan is about final borders, removal of most Settlements, recognition of Israel's secure boundaries by the Arabs, Pal Nation State creation.

13 JES  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:20:04am

OT but funny.

If you go to [Link: www.arabnews.com...] and click on Islam on the top row of buttons, it gives you a page with the title

ISLAM


Empty


LMAO

14 BJW  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:20:25am
the Quartet Plan is about final borders, removal of most Settlements, recognition of Israel's secure boundaries by the Arabs, Pal Nation State creation.

It will also be contingent on one other thing...pigs flying.

15 Former Belgian  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:26:05am

>Abbas' book then asserts: "The historian and author ?Raoul Hilberg thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000."

For the record, Hilberg's published figure is 5.3 million, and should be considered a "lower limit".

Just in case some people would consider the respected and meticulous historian Raul Hilberg "guilty by association" with Abu Mamzer.

16 Colt  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:27:45am

#12 Ranbutan

[Blair] is now close to being voted out of office by his own party.

Bullshit.

17 Colt  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:28:33am

#12 Ranbutan

[Blair] is now close to being voted out of office by his own party.

Bullshit.

18 Colt  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:28:55am

Oops. Sorry guys.

19 Raj Against The Machine  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:28:58am
Yasser Arafat’s right-hand man Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen,

Is it me, or does every Arab have three different names and a half-dozen passports?

20 Henry S.  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:29:57am

On the removal of Netanyahu as FM:

Shalom, who has little foreign policy experience, is widely seen as loyal to Sharon and his appointment is unlikely to bring big changes to Israel’s foreign policy, foreign diplomats said. “I don’t think this will make much difference to foreign policy. Sharon will strengthen his grip on foreign policy with a weaker person as foreign minister,” a senior European diplomat said.

On American ME policy:

Sharansky urges West to help Palestinians build a 'real democracy'


"If liberty can blossom in the rocky soil of the West Bank and Gaza, it will inspire millions of men and women around the globe who are equally weary of poverty and oppression, equally entitled to the benefits of democratic government," US President George W. Bush said in a rhetorical flourish during his Monday night speech.

In Israel, both on the Right and the Left, these words were shrugged off to a large extent as quintessential "American naivete." One Ma'ariv columnist wrote in a mocking tone that Bush told the Palestinians that before they can begin dreaming of a state, "they need to turn into a Jeffersonian-style democracy, New England on the banks of the Jordan."

But one man who did not snicker, and in fact greeted these words with a sense that a thesis he has been propounding for just under a decade was finally gaining currency, was Construction and Housing Minister Natan Sharansky.

"There are those who say that democracy is foreign to Islam," Sharansky said yesterday. "But I can bring you quotes from American experts who said Japan would never be democratic, because it is a different world, that Russia would never be democratic, that Spain would never be democratic, that Latin America would never be democratic."

Indeed, Sharansky argued these points last weekend at an American Enterprise Institute conference in Aspen, Colorado attended by US Vice President Dick Cheney and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. According to Sharansky, those who say democracy can never take hold in other societies are actually saying this to justify why they support dictators.

The West has historically felt, Sharansky said, that the simplest way to protect itself from the dictators is to support them so they will be friendly. "This thesis fails time after time," he said.

Echoes of this thesis, Sharansky said, were heard in Yitzhak Rabin's statement soon after the Oslo Accords that "when the Palestinians in Gaza are responsible for taking care of their own internal problems, they will handle them without a Supreme Court, without B'tselem [the human rights organization], and without all kinds of bleeding-heart liberals."

One of underlying assumptions of Oslo, Sharansky wrote in an April letter to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, was that a strong leader will bring about a strong peace. Arafat, Sharansky said, "exploited this belief by investing every dollar and shekel he received in encouraging the inflammatory hatred of Israel and in construction of a terrorist infrastructure to be used against Israel. Given a choice between peace and economic prosperity versus terror and tyranny, Arafat always chose the later option."

Bush, Sharansky said, realizes this, and this is why he called for the radical reform of the Palestinian leadership.

Off all the Arabs, Sharansky said, the Palestinians are the closest to democracy. The problem is that until now the West has chosen to prop up a dictator Arafat.

When reminded that the polls show the Palestinians are overwhelmingly still supportive of Arafat, Sharansky asked, "What does it mean that the Palestinians love only Arafat, the Russians when asked loved only Stalin. Did they have a choice. Has anybody made sure that the Palestinians have a choice?"

Sharansky said that Israel needs to free itself of the illusion that the Palestinians chose Arafat's dictatorship. The West chose that, he said, by not providing another option.

In Sharansky's mind, Bush's speech should now be followed up by the establishment of a coordinating body headed by the US together with those Arab states who recognize Israel for creating a Palestinian administrative authority (PAA) that would serve as a transitional government to shepherd in a process of democratization.

According to Sharansky, this body would be responsible for administrating the day-to-day lives of the Palestinians, in matters such as economy, police and law enforcement, education, housing, religion, culture, and other areas. In his letter to Sharon, in which he spelled out this program, Sharansky said this PAA should operate for a three-year transition period the amount of time Bush spelled out until the establishment of a provisional Palestinian state, if the Palestinians meet certain stringent conditions.

Sharansky envisions "free and open" elections held at the end of this period.

Asked if he doesn't think Arafat would win these elections, Sharansky said, "If elections were held today he would win, like Stalin won. That is why you need real democracy.

"Democracy is not just elections, it is where people are not afraid to speak their mind because it might end them up in jail, it is where people have a feeling of security to chose between a normal lie and an abnormal one. When faced with this choice, I believe the vast majority would choose peace and not war."

21 Glen Wishard  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:31:05am

Highly intellectual? Author, pragmatist, "respected as a statesman both regionally and internationally"?

Are we supposed to believe that the spotty little git who wrote this Teen Beat love letter to Abbas is unaware that Abbas is a Holocaust Denier?

The name of Mahmoud Abbas was all over the press during the David Irving trial. (The BBC might possibly have noticed the David Irving trial?).

The most charitable interpretation is that they just didn't bother to do 10 minutes worth of research on their "profile". Instead they consulted some anti-Israeli lefthead group who fed them a sanitized press release.

22 Former Belgian  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:38:56am

In fact domestic considerations may have played a greater role in replacing Netanyahu. The Treasury minister, Silvan Shalom, is generally regarded as a complete failure by the business community, and Sharon actually tried to appoint a nonpolitician (former Bank of Israel governor Jacob Frenkel) to the job. Frenkel refused, upon which Sharon offered the post to J'lem mayor Ehud Olmert and put SilvanShalom out of a job. The latter (a PM wannabe, or perhaps just a wannabe period) immediately made a lot of noise and threats that he would gang up with Netanyahu against Sharon. All of a sudden, the latter offered him a promotion to the Foreign Ministry and Netanyahu the Treasury. Silvan Shalom accepted with glee, while Netanyahu (the great advocate of laissez-faire economics in Israel, after all) is reportedly mulling accepting the Treasury.

#19: And BTW, Mahmoud Abbas is the "tool"'s real name, and "Abu Mazen" his nickname/nom de guerre.

23 William  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:47:25am
In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller -- below one million.

Idiot Bill Maher, whose new show aired on HBO last Friday, had a comedienne attempting to make a joke about "6 million murdered Jews, versus 60 million murdered Jews, the only difference is that 60 million murdered is unforgivable".

I could not believe what I was hearing. And this was not the most offensive joke she told.

The crowd, thankfully, had a conscience and was almost dead silent. She changed her act after a few crowd silences followed her "jokes".

I honsetly could not believe what I was hearing.

If you are inclined, here is his show's URL, write to HBO, not Bill Maher, and let them know what you think.

It appears Mahmoud Abbas and this comedienne think alike.
 

24 William  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:52:01am

Sorry, forgot URL in #23...

[Link: www.hbo.com...]

You can contact HBO here:
[Link: www.hbo.com...]
 

25 Maine's Michael  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:52:29am
He is the author of several books.

1. Jews: Villains of History. 260 pages. Kuwait University Press 1995

2. The Zionist Fraud. 340 pages. Damascus University Press 1993

3. The Vampire Myths: Their Basis in Jewish Practice. 700 pages. Teheran Press 1989

3. The Palestinian Origins of Western Civilization. 430 pages. Cairo University Press 1987

4. Great Palestinian Thinkers. 2 pages (flyer). Ramalah Press Office 2001.

26 Joshua Chamberlain  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 8:58:05am

# 19, 22 -

When you start dealing with politicians who have "street names" watch out! You're in the world of political gangsterism:

Nicolai Lenin - Vladimir Ilych Ulanov

Joseph Stalin - Joseph Vissarionovich Djugashvili

Adolf Hitler - Adolf Schikelgruber

27 Joe  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 9:33:49am

Charles, are you ever tempted to just title your posts 'Different Shit-Head, Same Shit'? Just wondering.

28 Ariel  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 9:55:02am

Maine's Michael #25,

Funny. Also eerie. Not sure whether it's a joke or not...

29 Ranbutan  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 9:55:17am

#26 - How about all the Hollywood types who change their names?

30 Former Belgian  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 9:59:53am

Update to #22:

Netanyahu accepts Treasury on condition that he will also become acting PM when Sharon is sill or out of town.

#26: It was Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, not Nikolai Lenin. Ulyanov is correct.

Hitler y"sh really was his legal family name at birth: his father had legally changed his name from Schickelgruber to Hitler (his mother's maiden name). Incidentally, the family was so inbred that Hitler's father and mother needed dispensation from the Pope himself to marry.

And you can add Molotov (real family name Skriabin, first cousin of the composer) and Leon Trotsky (born Lev Bronstein, but as "Jewish" as Noam Chomsky shr"y) to you list.

31 Ariel  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 10:10:14am

Ranbutan #29,

You forgot to mention that the Hollywood folks were Jews. Did you catch a cold or something?

32 Catbert  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 10:16:52am

re: #25
"4. Great Palestinian Thinkers. 2 pages (flyer). Ramalah Press Office 2001. "

2 pages!!! They must have used 72 size font.

33 Joshua Chamberlain  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 10:20:59am

# 26 -

Lenin first started writng under the pen name "N. Lenin" which later expanded to "Nicolai Lenin." Once in power, he started calling himself "V.I. Lenin."

34 whiner  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 10:43:57am

#23 William,

I watched Maher's first show -- which I found unimpressive -- and I think you misinterpreted the comedienne's jokes. I forget her name, but she's been around awhile, including a stint on SNL.

She wasn't telegraphing her jokes -- which, admittedly, made it easy to get the wrong impression -- but I think her meaning was exactly the opposite of the meaning you took.

For example, the real meaning of "60 million - as opposed to 6 million -- is unforgivable" is "OF COURSE 6 MILLION IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO BE UNFORGIVEABLE!"

Sorry for the yelling, but I think her ironic delivery was just a quieter way of making the same point.

See #4/#8 for a variation of the meaning of her "joke."

35 Ranbutan  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 12:07:01pm

#31 Ariel

Ranbutan #29,

You forgot to mention that the Hollywood folks were Jews. Did you catch a cold or something?

So you buy into that stereotype, Ariel? Tsk tsk.

36 harry  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 12:15:22pm

Holding a degree from the Soviet Union does not mean that one is "highly intellectual." The level of freedom of inquiry was quite low and remains so in many academic disciplines in that old empire. With languages, engineering, sciences, and even mathematics they could teach good technique. But there was, as #11 said, and still is, plenty of room for corrupting influences.

Also, there is no Ph.D. in the Russian system. They have a Candidate of Science, which they claim is like a Ph.D. and the highest is a Doctor of Science.

37 Gomez  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 1:18:10pm

Why the hell is there still a new Kahil cartoon every day?!

38 William  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 1:31:04pm

whiner, #34,

I dunno, she rolled off quite a few "jokes" in a row, that left the crowd silent.

I thought jokes were supposed to make people laugh?

I'm pretty sure I understood her correctly, but maybe someone will have a show transcript available.
 

39 William  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 1:31:51pm

whiner, #34,

I dunno, she rolled off quite a few "jokes" in a row, that left the crowd silent.

I thought jokes were supposed to make people laugh?

I'm pretty sure I understood her correctly, but maybe someone will have a show transcript available.
 

40 Anabel  Wed, Feb 26, 2003 3:50:14pm

#12 Ranbutan

As most LGF posters know a Palestinian State, as perceived by the Quartet, would leave Israel with no strategic depth whatsoever and could force a further escalation of Israel’s policy of pre-emptive self defense. A reduction in US funding to Israel to the same level (or less) as other ME states receive, would leave Israel as America’s armed point man in the ME. (At least until post Iraq)

The Quartet and its supporters could then work on a complete withdrawal of support for Israel.

A cynical plan worthy of Foggy Bottom.

41 MysticMonist  Thu, Feb 27, 2003 3:35:48am
"There are those who say that democracy is foreign to Islam," Sharansky said yesterday.

What do you mean "those".
Conservative Moslem scholars themselves say this. e.g:
Democracy is a System of Kufr
Islam For All Of Us

"But I can bring you quotes from American experts who said Japan would never be democratic, because it is a different world, that Russia would never be democratic, that Spain would never be democratic, that Latin America would never be democratic."

Yes but,
They had to give up the emperor cult, communism and fascism first. Are the Palistinian Arabs about to give up Islam?

42 liberalhawk  Thu, Feb 27, 2003 6:13:40am

abu mazen aint no intellectual. And he wrote junk. Yup.

But he also (according to Dennis Ross) thinks Arafat made a mistake in rejecting the Barak offer at Oslo. He thinks the terrorism since has hurt the palestinians.

The man actually seems to understand cause and effect.

This is the best youre likely to get folks. A lot better than Arafat, Bargouti, or Hanan Ashrawi.

Which is not to say he should get a free pass if is rejectionist. Watch him and hold him to "moderation". Which is what I expect Arik will do.

43 watcher  Fri, Feb 28, 2003 11:41:01am

what is this site some sort of kike fest? you people need to shut your filthy mouths and pray that the world doesn't do to you as you do to the Palestinians. You kikes have grown so cocky it makes me want to puke. keep it up and we will grind your shitty little country under our foot.

watch your backs Jews

44 Charles  Fri, Feb 28, 2003 12:40:18pm

Does the University of California Center for EUV Astrophysics know that you're using their Internet account to post your hateful garbage? Perhaps they should.

Watching you back.

45 zulubaby  Fri, Feb 28, 2003 1:15:39pm

Not again. Every thread I've looked at has the same crap posted by this mosquito. A pure-bred troll, jumping from thread to thread. Most unoriginal.

46 Dun No  Fri, Feb 28, 2003 7:23:10pm

Nota Bene from Yemen,

www.yementimes.com/03.iss8/intrview.htm#1

47 EE  Sat, Mar 1, 2003 4:12:30am

There can't be any progress toward civility (let alone quiet or peace) until the massive amount of anti-Jewish incitement in the Pali schools and media stops.

That is not something that Abu Mazen seems qualified to do, seeing that he has been a prominent inciter himself, if the publications cited by #25 Maine's Michael are actual and not a joke or parody.

#25 Maine's Michael: are those actual publications? Some of those guys have such weird libels against the Jews that they are beyond parody, and I cannot tell the difference between what they actually say and parody. Is it for real?

48 Cara  Sat, Mar 1, 2003 7:40:06am

A question:
I am trying to authenticate a quote attributed to Abu Mazen/Mahmoud Abas.
He has been quoted, supposedly in the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Zaman, as saying that Palestinian childen have been paid approximately $1 per pipe bomb thrown at IDF forces.
I have found this quote on the IDF website, the IMRI website, and in an excellent study done by Justus Weiner 'THE USE OF PALESTINIAN CHILDREN IN THE AL-AQSA INTIFADA " [Link: www.jcpa.org...]

However, I am looking for a source that is not Israel-related.
Any leads, bloggers?
TIA

49 EE  Sat, Mar 1, 2003 12:24:09pm

Here is a book that Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) wrote in 1983 -- The Other Side: The Secret Relationship between Nazism and the Zionist Movement
[Link: www.ajc.org...]

The link above provides an article on Muslim Anti-Semitism. The libels against the Jews are incredible.

Abu Mazen contributed the above book about the Holocaust, with the accusation that the Zionists were partners of the Nazis.

50 zulubaby  Sun, Mar 2, 2003 10:33:39pm

Arafat deputy Abu Mazen reneges on call to halt terror attacks

Yasser Arafat's deputy, Mahmoud Abbas, who has been touted as a candidate for prime minister, has reneged on a call to halt all terror attacks against Israelis.

********

After advocating a total cessation of terror attacks for a year, Abu Mazen now feels attacks against targets in the territories would be justified, Israel Radio reports.

Good to know that that lying sack of shit Arafat has chosen a lying sack of shit as his prime minister. Have any of them ever told the truth about anything?


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