Ironic that they're draping the coffin in the very flag she was burning a few days earlier...

I think it was all a set-up. She's living happily on a tropical island with Kennedy, Elvis, and Andy Kaufman.

(It makes as much sense as the other conspiracy theories being written about her.)

In light of all these versions of the story and from previous Palestinian adventures, I'm kind of wondering if anyone has seen a body yet?

I hate being the conspiracy guy, but I kinda hafta ask.

On page 1 of the New York Times the headline, pointing to an article inside, is "Israelis Kill U.S. Protester".

It is in the active voice, not the passive voice, to prevent anyone from understanding that it was an accident and that the victim's actions had a role in it.

It is in the plural, "Israelis", not "Israeli", to indicate that it was a plot, or perhaps they want a reader to believe that it was ordered by Prime Minister Sharon.

Ironic that they're draping the coffin in the very flag she was burning a few days earlier...

Even in death she continues to desecrate the flag.

...and the best part is that she supposedly died of suffocation! Yeah, under the tracks of a bulldozer.
I am no doctor but that kind of "cause of death" makes me suspicious as to whether the whole thing is a hoax.

It looks like the flag was made with spray paint, stencils, and a sheet.

what a shame....BEEP-BEEP

Lets send send Jimmy Carter to the West Bank with a bulhorn and a map to the homes of Shaheeds.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

OK, maybe I've spent too much time on Fark lately, but...I just saw a picture of Corrie...and...well...if I was an Israeli bulldozer operator...well...yeah, I'D HIT IT.

(very sorry)

Why perpetuate the hate? Both sides are wrong. Let's work towards reconciliation and finding a just peace instead of rearranging the details of deaths to advocate one's political agenda. I mourn the death of this American citizen because she is a human being, a real person, whether or not I might agree with her political actions.

We all knew it was a media gift from the get-go and that they will make the best use of it possible. It is sad that she died before seeing what a mistake she was making. I would like to have seen her come to her senses at some point.

FRANCE: Star of David carved into Jewish woman's wrist after debate on Israel-Palestinian conflict

via (Drudge)

Aix-en-Provence (AP) - Three cagoulés criminals engraved a star of David with a cutting metal object on the wrist of 21 years a Jewish coed after to have attacked it Tuesday evening in its residence of Aix-en-Provence (Rhone delta), one learned Wednesday from legal source.

The tracks of a racist act or a personal conflict are evoked by the investigators of the police station of Aix-en-Provence.

This girl had just assisted with a debate on the israélo-Palestinian conflict with the cinema "Renoir" in Aix-en-Provence when she was attacked in her residence, two or three hours later.

An investigation was open for "violences worsened", according to a legal source.

[Link: fr.news.yahoo.com...]

these dirt poor oppressed people somehow gained access to a Kinkos or something to whip out there posters.

"Ohhhhh we have nothing! You want to go to Starbucks after Kinkos or after the riot?"

Just a question... did she die before or after the Israeli soliders killed the children over the weekend?

I gotta say, folks, neither side of this conflict is humane. Both kill children without hesitation.

Focusing on Corrie is a nice diversion from the turth that neither Isreal or the Palestinians act with any care for human life, diginity or progress.

The US needs to stay out of the 3rd world and let the situation play out. It is not our place.

#3 Toby, #6 Andre S

While I think it was a foolish stunt on the part of Corrie and her "friends", she looked pretty f**ked up in those pictures so I do not think it was a hoax (exactly how she suffered her injuries is an open question), but the Palis and the terrorist sympathizers are going to exploit it to the hilt.

er, their

Wrapping Rachel Corrie in an American flag is like wrapping a Hamas terrorist in a pigskin.

I want the professors at the idiotic Evergreen U to be required to watch the PRIME OF MISS JEAN BRODIE, until they all decide to take up gardening instead.

Tyler!!!

You're back! Moral equivalency indiminished I see.

#16:

Spiny, overall, I'm usually not the one to knee-jerk the 'c' word, but looking at the pictures at Electronic Intifada, I'd have to say something odd is going on.

That doesn't appear to be the same bulldozer in each picture.

#15 Both kill children without hesitation.

What's the point of the baseless slander, TP? Trying to present a convincing argument or just venting your fear and loathing?

Anyone who knows has been to Israel and knows people who served in the IDF understands the terrible ignorance and/or hypocrisy underlying that statement.

Again, what's the point?

Pals "exploit" Corrie? Given her recent activities, it seems to me she'd be perfectly pleased with what they're doing.

As they say in the entertainment "By tomorrow this is going to seem so yesterday" or something to that effect. Looking forward to seeing the effect of M1A1s with Rome plows working over Iraqi trenchlines once more. Hope that they are smart enough to get out of the way.

Tyler,

The very fact that Corrie thought that, by standing in front of a bulldozer, she could stop the IDF actions disproves your point.

Tyler-
"let the situation play out"......Let them all kill themselves? Is that what you're promoting? Hey that doesn't sound like typical "left-wing" policy. Aren't we supposed to help everyone and spread peace?

The TP (Toilet Paper) troll is back.

Move along folks.

JG

#21 Toby

I saw those pictures too. The two front angle pix (the supposed before-and-after) look like the same machine from different camera angles, but I don't see an operator in either one. Could be from another incident? The side angle pic looks like a entirely different location. Like I said, I think exactly how she suffered her injuries is an open question. A hoax? I don't think so. Fatal foolishness? Most certainly. And shameless exploitation by her "comrads-in-arms."

I am surprised they are not claiming that she was killed in Auschwitz junior, which we westerners know as Jenin.

I feel a Muhammed al-Dura redux on this one.

_______

Re the NY Times headline, is anyone surprised?

Has the NY Times ever after a terrorist attack against Jews start a headline with "Palestinians kill . . . " No of course not. It is always "16 Israelis 'die' . . . "

I think this story will become a rallying cry for the anti-some wars left, and only the timing of it (eve of war) will prevent an absolute media obsession with this story.

When will the State Department come out with its obligatory condemnation of Israel on this one?

I'm just catching up on all of this Rachel Corrie stuff, and I can't help thinking ... how the hell do you get yourself run over by a bulldozer. I see the picture of her standing in front of it with a bullhorn, and I see the picture of two people tending to .. something (presumably her) but I don't see any in-between photos. And obviously a good bit of time passed between the shots. I mean really ... I don't know how you can get run over by a frikin bulldozer, unless you're either unconscious or really, really stupid.

W.

It's a good thing ANYONE in "PALESTINE" knows anything about ENGLISH GRAMMAR!!!!! Read the sign...the lower part. These people can't even construct a sentence let alone make a charade of empathy. I love the IRONY of it all. Celebrating an American that HATED AMERICA. It's just too much.

Andrew B

Ayatrollah Patterson! How fares the jihad?

#21, Toby. Side by side, different dozers, different horizons, note lights on top of dozer cab. Do they teach photo-journalism at Evergreen State? One would hope that the medical examiner or coronor in Washington would autopsy the body before releasing it to the parents. I would not believe a thing about this death without a report from a forensic pathologist.

You guys can really be revolting sometimes. She was an American. You may disagree with her politics but she wasn't hurting anyone and she died a horrible death. Why revel in the death of a fellow American? Do you only mourn for those who mimic your politics.

Disgusting.

I disagree with what she was doing but from the pictures I've seen the guy in the bulldozer had more than enough time and visibility to not run over her. He should be charged.

And for those of you who think it's a double standard to care more for an American, well, it is but that's the way it is.

"Let's Roll", brings new meaning doesn't it? I think Israel is rolling out the RED carpet for the terrorists. It sends a great message to them. If you get in our way we will run you over and there is nothing you can do to stop them. F*CK THE TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andrew B

they do look like different bulldozers. Color of the shovel and the lights on top of the machines are different. Any body have an explanation other than deciet?

This girl was photographed instructing Palestinian kids how to burn the U.S. flag. Now these people place a U.S. flag on her coffin. Do they think she would be honored by this gesture? Stupidity all around.

Also, it's curious that someone supposedly run over by a bulldozer did not even have any dirt on her body.

Hey Bez...

Do you know who Benedict Arnold was? If not look him up. Or look in the dictionary for the word...TRAITOR.

WAKE UP!!!!!

Andrew B

fantastic--first american shaheed is a leftie homegirl--up there in the garden in the sky with 72 versions of brad pitt to service her--what's wrong with this picture--bulldozer/house/do not go in between--at least she committed suicide without taking sixteen school children with her-NEXT!!

#30 Wayne:

It may be hard to get run over by a bulldozer but, if you get hurt, I bet it's not hard to get sacrificed for the cause at the Gaza hospital. I'm afraid we'll never know the truth.

#34

I see very little reveling in the comments. Some dark humor, yes. Mostly distaste with the Palestinians using this unfortunate incident as a propaganda ramp.

she wasn't hurting anyone

Wrong. She was aiding terrorists and making it difficult for Israel to fight terrorism.

from the pictures I've seen the guy in the bulldozer had more than enough time and visibility to not run over her. He should be charged.

Remind me to avoid any jury, grand or otherwise, that you might serve on. Your rush to judgment is appalling.

#38 Andrew,

I don't think this young woman's attempt to stop a bulldozer is on the same level with conspiring to hand West Point to the British.

She should have been arrested, not killed. This is a horrible event and it's shocking to see so many revelling in it.

Bez:

I agree, it is awful and tragic. I'm sorry she died, but I can't mourn her. Her death was stupid and her actions arrogant and distasteful.

One thing I know from working construction, it isn't the driver's job to see you it is your job to get out of the damn way.

I don't even blame the Israeli driver. He was driving in what was essentially an armored vehicle with a bulldozer attachement.

1) I'd imagine that this wasn't the first time these people tried to get in his way only to move in the last minute.

2) He probably can't see over the very front of the blade of the dozer.

It was her mistake. Tragic, sure, but made less so by her actions.

CARRIE HAS SUPERPOWERS!

No, not the kind that can keep a girl from getting killed by a bulldozer. Her powers are more remarkable: she has the ability to cast a shadow when no one else around her can.

Check out the large photo on this page, where "Carrie confronts the bulldozer driver."

No shadow from the bulldozer. No shadow from the guy standing behind her. It's a miracle, mediated by St. Photoshop.

(Sorry to post it here, but I didn't want it to get lost in the other thread about photo fakery)

the scarf on her head has to have been added via photoshop. Is this just so the PLO knuckleheads will not look at her and think "the shameless American whore deserved to die for showing her hair" - we'll know for sure if she's in a burka and named Khouri in future reports.

#34 Bez
The International Solidarity Movement makes a habit of confronting bulldozers.
It is reported that this is not the first time that this person confronted a bulldozer. So what picture did you see, and how do you know the time that elapsed between that picture and the incident that occurred, or what the victim did in the meantime?

According to the reports from the ISM itself, this victim was on the ground. The bulldozer was a Caterpillar D-9. Did you see a picture of the victim on the ground, and of a D-9 approaching her? If not, your conclusions are not based on a relevant picture.

#34 Bez:

I think she would dispute your claims that she was an American.

The Isrealis aren't bulldozing for the fun of it: They are trying to save the lives of their own citizens, weather you agree with the effectiveness or not.

Conversely, she was trying her damndest to prevent this. In effect, she was putting Palestinian property above the lives of Jews.

How can you even look at the photo of her, face contorted with hate, burning a american flag, and the worst condemnation you can summon is "you may disagree with her politics"?

Yes, she was an American. So is Charles Manson. I feel no duty of love to either. Too bad for you, you moral midget.

I understand where Tyler (#22) is coming from. In order to take sides, you have to assess the actions and morality of each side, and come to a conclusion about which side is --- if not absolutely right or wrong, at least which side is more right or more wrong. Simple moral equivalency is a much easier short cut, and leaves one more time to hit the bong and play hackey sack.

what does it say on the little darlings' headbands?

#44

yes, very odd - note the shadows on the blade of the bulldozer: almost straight down

Weird,
I haven't seen on tv the photos of late miss corrie tearing/burning the american flag (yet). Its all about her being a peace activist...she even participated in that idiotic palestinian mock trial!
I can't say I'm happy with her death, but that was a heck of a stupid way to go! So stupid, that kinda brings tears to my eyes (from laughter)

Bez - Americans far more innocent than Corrie have been killed by the suicide bombers whose homes she was trying to protect. Like 14 year-old Abigail Litle, killed 2 weeks ago in the suicde bombing in Haifa.

And if you feel more concerned with the accidental death of Corrie than with the pre-meditated murder of Litle, that would be a 'double standard.'

Hey Bez,

Great point, I agree entirely. These people who seem to take pleasure in this girl's death are sick in the head.

She wasn't doing anything illegal or immoral. She wasn't "aiding terrorism". She was trying to stop the Isreali army from bulldozing buildings they have no business bulldozing to begin with (it's not their property). I would never do what she did, but I don't fault her, either.

#34 Bez
Glad to see you participating.

But I don't see the point of pre-judging the investigation that will be made.

If the bulldozer driver is guilty of something then he should be charged. If he isn't, then he shouldn't be charged. Why pre-judge the investigation?

what does it say on the little darlings' headbands?

"Vacancy"

#53 Matt - excellent point.

The Israelis have no right to fight suicide terrorism and arms smuggling. They should just dig their own graves and line up in front of the firing squad without kicking up such a fuss.

I CANNOT BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE FALLING FOR THIS PROPAGANDA!

A person who volunteered to be a human shield and burns American flags is being honored in a mock funeral by people who also burn American flags with an American flag on her "coffin".

#43 Toby,

You're probably right and it certainly was partly her fault simply for being stupid enough to do this but even so.

#46 EE,

Photo 1

Photo 2

I'm not a forensic expert but it certainly appears as though she was very obvious in what she was doing. Whatever the circumstances this young lady should be alive.

#47 Ryan Waxx,

she was putting Palestinian property above the lives of Jews.

I think that's quite a stretch. Destroying a Palestinian's home won't bring a suicide bomber's victim back. I understand the preventative aspect of this policy but wouldn't arresting her have brought about the same results without the loss of life or condemnation that this will surely bring.

How can you even look at the photo of her, face contorted with hate, burning a american flag, and the worst condemnation you can summon is "you may disagree with her politics"?

There are many in this nation that have burned a flag and espoused such hatred, would you line them all up under a bulldozer?

Yes, she was an American. So is Charles Manson. I feel no duty of love to either. Too bad for you, you moral midget.

You're equating a dead 23 year old activist to Manson...very eloquent. Thanks for the compliment.

I CANNOT BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE FALLING FOR THIS PROPAGANDA!

A person who volunteered to be a human shield and burns American flags is being honored in a mock funeral by people who also burn American flags with an American flag on her "coffin".

She wasn't doing anything illegal or immoral. She wasn't "aiding terrorism". She was trying to stop the Isreali army from bulldozing buildings they have no business bulldozing to begin with (it's not their property).

And the Taliban wasn't "aiding terrorism" either. They were just trying to stop the corrupt American government from capturing Al-Qaeda leaders that they had no business demanding the arrest of to begin with.

See, the great thing about moral equivalence is that I can use it too, and it makes just as much sense!

I found a site saying they have photos of the event before and after it happened. They can be seen at:

[Link: www.atlanta.indymedia.org...]

this would make a better article for the Electronic Intifada - "Khouri murdered preventing Zionist from digging mass graves for Palestinian infants"

they could photoshop in a bunch of dead Israeli babies and but scarves on their heads

#53 Matt - you poufter- nice moral equivelency-whad'you take a shower in post modern dreck--israelies destroy property--palis blow up people--HELLO--you can rebuild a house--try to resurrect a human life--unless your a death loving [bigoted word]--i'd say "get a life"-but you probably prefer the alternaive

The peacenicks, they do confound each other:

She wasn't doing anything illegal or immoral.

policy but wouldn't arresting her have brought about the same results without the loss of life or condemnation that this will surely bring.

So, to satisfy you morons, the Isrealis would have to arrest her for not committing a crime. And then you would condemn Isreal for THAT.

Brilliant.

Ms. Corrie is just another tragically stupid leftist, who died loving to hate her country.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

I feel sympathy for her family. They are now needless plunged into grief by this selfish, spoiled, idiotarian.

I'm in agreement about the photos...
No mangling, no crush injuries... The person that is lying--intact--in those photos was not run over by a bulldozer.

58 Bez

look at photo #2, if that 20 tonne buldozer had runover her, her jacket would be in shreads....and full of dirt...

didnt happen...

Re: #61

From that picture. it is quite obvious that the driver probably couldn't see her.

Her head is lower than the tip of the blucket and, therefore, out of the driver's field of vision. If you've ever been in a bulldozer, you'd know that that bullhorn couldn't make much of a difference.

Also, take a look a the link above (in message 21) from Electronic Intifada for that same picture and others (including two separate bulldozers, hence my suspicion).

rachel corrie's diary praises suicide bombers

[Link: www.scoop.co.nz...]

She was NOT a pacifist, she advocated violent methods and praised the suicide bombers in Israel as "fighters that beautifully offer their lifes against the oppressor"

The last "fighter" exploded himself in a bus full of school kids, but this was not a big deal to this stupid "peace activist".

FYI - bulldozing deaths
About two weeks ago a Superior Court judge from Ontario was cross-country ski-ing at a private club in Collingwood, Ontario with her daughter when she was accidentally killed by a bulldozer working on trail enhancement. It was n accident. End of story.

Whatever the circumstances this young lady should be alive.

"Whatever the circumstances"?

Nice leap of logic there. The idiot was playing chicken with a bulldozer. She lost.

Her motives for doing so made her an enemy of civilization. She revelled in destruction, allying herself with those who slaughter the innocent. She reaped what she sowed.

Bez (#34): Would you have mourned John Walker Lindh if he'd gotten (accidentally) fragged in Afghanistan?

As Bush said, you're either with us or you're with the terrorists. She was with the terrorists. Which doesn't mean we should have tried to kill her, but to say as Caton did that she deserved to die is probably not too much.

bez before you embarass yourself anymore please just leave this thread. your accusations toward the driver and your willingness to side with a anti-american flag burning radical is appauling. you make this situation out to be "murder" as if she couldnt get out of the way of a machine that weights 20 tons and moves 4 mph. get a clue, do some research on people being run over by heavy equipment, do some research on this woman and her radical beliefs, and stop smoking the wacky tabcky.

#58 Bez

This has been discussed rather extensively in the other threads, you can't see it from the two pictures you selectively picked, but look at the two pictures again and ask yourself how you know them to be pictures of the incident in question.

More telling, are the pictures here. The bulldozer changed shape, color, the lights changed, the background landscape changed... there is little reason to believe these photos are of the actual event, especially considering they seemed to have pictures of the before/after (which looks fake), but no pictures of the actual incident.

Don't base your conclusions on the photos.

#58 Bez

This has been discussed rather extensively in the other threads, you can't see it from the two pictures you selectively picked, but look at the two pictures again and ask yourself how you know them to be pictures of the incident in question.

More telling, are the pictures here. The bulldozer changed shape, color, the lights changed, the background landscape changed... there is little reason to believe these photos are of the actual event, especially considering they seemed to have pictures of the before/after (which looks fake), but no pictures of the actual incident.

Don't base your conclusions on the photos.

#58. Bez, Now that it has been mentioned, I think that one of her Profs back at Evergreen State could have been a Manson model(of course with more degrees) and she might have been doing a take on Squeeky From. Just speculating of course.

Guys, stop with this conspiracy theory BS, you sound like those freaks on IndyMedia. Even the Israelis have admitted that they killed her. They say it was an accident, and it may have been, but it's one that was very preventable.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/13 4654821_protester17m.html

This is in the dead woman's own words, as reported by her own organization (hence be aware that it contains spin):

The internationals stood in the path of the bulldozer and were physically pushed with the shovel backwards, taking shelter in a house. The bulldozer then proceeded on its course, demolishing one side of the house with the internationals inside. The driver then dropped a sound grenade out of the cab of the bulldozer, and continued to demolish the house, at which point the activists were able to escape, amid gunfire from the tank.

After reading this, its a freaking wonder that deaths haven't happened sooner. These fools are courting death on purpose.

#68 david
I'm having trouble finding that particular quote in your link. Can you help?

The Israelis have no right to fight suicide terrorism and arms smuggling. They should just dig their own graves and line up in front of the firing squad without kicking up such a fuss.

Exaggerate much, do we? Isrealis have the right to defend against terrorism, just as a Palestinian has the right to live in his home on his property without having it bulldozed. Or do you believe that every home the IDF bulldozes is a "terrorist" home?

#79 Matt, do you honestly think they bulldoze them for sport?

#58 Bez
#73 SecHumanist

It is obvious that different bulldozers are being shown in pictures that purport to be of this event. Therefore I am suspicious. How could there be different bulldozers for the same event?

I still would await the investigation before making any judgment.

#26 Robo

I am not typical left-winger. By play it out, I mean let the two sides figure it out. They both commit atrocities on a weekly, if not daily, basis. The Pals were street clothes. The IDF wear uniforms. Both kill indescriminately.

The idea of bulldozing homes is as appalling as blowing up busses.

If any side had the moral high ground, they have lost it now.

Equivalence? Sure. Both sides are equally debased of humanity.

If there is any situation that the UN should be acting on, it is this one.

It makes me very sad. As a peace nik, there's nothing worse than the conitnued slow murdering going on over there.

TP

matt i also have the right to believe given the nature of physics that if you stand in front of a bulldozer that weights 20 tons you will be crushed. obviously the moron didnt realize this fact.

Or do you believe that every home the IDF bulldozes is a "terrorist" home?

Do you believe that the ISM only tries to stop the bulldozing of non-terrorists homes?

Good riddence to bad rubbish-

Speaking as someone who owned a few dozers, only an absolute moran would stand in the way of one, she most cerrtainly could feel the earth shaking under feet loooong before it ran her over.

What a moron chip, now if we could just get all of them to protect houses in bagdad and "palestine" we would have a much better gene pool left over......................

Oops, sorry for the double post,

As for the actual event, I've had some time to mull it over and this is what I think about the whole thing:

I hate the Rachel Corries of the world. I hate them for making me hate them, but I do. I've long been disappointed in the greater European and smaller American communities that have been so reluctant to view the conflict with a dispassionate eye, that fail to recognize the comfort and support they have given to these terrorists.

Palestinian Arabs and other Arabs with an unbridled hatred of all things Jewish and western I can begin to understand the causes of - the result of a backwards religio-social-politcal society that has been unable to adapt to the modern world while repressive regimes ensure only one (hate-filled, scapegoating) perspective is repeated in government-owned media and any and all dissent forcibly quelled. I can come to grips with the causes of their decaying society; I can't come to grips with the decaying society of Europe or of the ultra-left Americans.

These people have access to the information, have the ability to asses the situation in a way Arabs don't and yet they never miss an opportunity to feed their fantasies, to play along with their games, to extol the virtues of terrorism against innocent civilians, and to basically perpetuate the Arab rejectionism at the core of the conflict between the West and the Arab world.

These people have no excuse for their misguided philosophies - they have no excuse to be so woefully ignorant - they have no excuse in providing any level of comfort to a group of people eager to destroy both sides of this conflict. It's people like Rachel Corrie that make me question humanity's basic goodness, and for that I hate her and I hate those elements of society that warped her mind and continue to warp the minds of so many others.

Her death was tragic, but her life more so.

#76 Bez

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

You said:

I disagree with what she was doing but from the pictures I've seen the guy in the bulldozer had more than enough time and visibility to not run over her. He should be charged.

And we're saying the pictures are bogus. Nobody said a bulldozer didn't kill her, we're saying the pictures are bogus. Let me repeat it for you, the pictures are bogus.

So don't go making your outrageous claims and moral denouncements based on pictures that don't portray the event in question, and don't go comparing that statement to the conspiracy-theorist garbage at indymedia.

76:

Yeah, I'm embarrassed by suggesting conspiracy. Unfortunately, we've been demonstrably lied to so many times that we can't help but be skeptical. It doesn't help that the palestinian supporters are lying even now about the incident.

#82:

No, you are most certainly NOT a typical left-winger. I would hesitate to call most left wingers an animal like you.

BOTH Kill indiscriminately? You are disgusting.

Bulldozing homes is as appalling as blowing up busses? This is wrong on so many different levels. At the most basic, property damage != mass murder. Is this too complex a concept for you, you dirtbag?

Both sides are equally debased of humanity? Your heroes call you a goddamn liar, you useful idiot. They say "The Isrealis worship life. We worship death".

The most tragic element to the story is that she might have suddenly realized that she was wrong and regretted that her actions were going to help evil, and then died.

Getting run over seems to have drained her hate for America and Israel. Would she rather hate innocent people, or be alive? It seems that maybe she died finally understanding the terror Israelis have to live with. A bulldozer is attacking you, you can't stop it from killing you, and there is no way to negotiate. Sure you can yell a lot but even when you think it might help you, it doesn't.

She could have learned something important, and carried it back to her friends to spread the word, maybe raise the collective intellegence of their murder defense party by a slight enough margin to reveal what real morality is.

Ah who cares, she deserved it. We can't save the life of every deluded, brainwashed peace creep.

Whatever one may think of Rachel's actions, calling someone who has just been killed a "usefull idiot," etc., is uncalled for at best. Yesterday I was speaking to a reporter (Not one I would suspect of "Israel-bashing," about the various versions of what happened. When I said that it was hard for me to believe that the driver purposely ran over her he said, "I believe it. People have no idea what is happening there. Over the last few days it has gone out of control."

Re: Bulldozing homes...

The reason that the Israelis are bulldozing homes is that families of suicide bombers are reimbursed by Saddam and the Saudis. This gives them enough money to refurnish their homes, etc, as has been shown by the Western media.

Bulldozing homes holds the families responsible. One is less likely to tell his/her child to blow himself up for Allah if they know that they won't have a house afterwards.

#68, "I went to a rally a few days ago in Khan Younis in solidarity with the people of Iraq."

Traitorous bitch!

#87 SecHumanist

So don't go making your outrageous claims and moral denouncements based on pictures that don't portray the event in question, and don't go comparing that statement to the conspiracy-theorist garbage at indymedia.

I don't think it's an outrageous claim to say that this girl's death was preventable. I will denounce those that are revelling in it and will feel morally justified in doing so.

As for the conspiracy-theorist garbage, well, I'm comparing because that's what is happening. These pictures are all over the place and are being accepted by just about everyone. The Israelis themselves are not disputing them, why are some here?

Maybe I'm obtuse?

#91

all I can grant you is that we do not know if she was merely a useful idiot. She very well may have been one of the dorks more interested in parties and thought that all this was just fun and games - but then she may have been more like one of the true believers of the Stalinist sort we've all run into: you know the guys who work for peace by advocating the execution of all Jews and anyone right of Trotsky.

#81

It is obvious that different bulldozers are being shown in pictures that purport to be of this event. Therefore I am suspicious. How could there be different bulldozers for the same event?

It's the same bulldozer, what are you talking about? There is no question she was killed by the bulldozer, why are you making this an issue.

The question(s) is, was it an accident or did the driver kill her in purpose.

All this "different" bulldozer and Photoshop non-sense is absurd.

Whatever one may think of Rachel's actions, calling someone who has just been killed a "usefull idiot," etc., is uncalled for at best.

Why?

It's a technical term. Stalin called those people who fell for the Soviet line of propaganda his "useful idiots". Corrie fell for the propaganda of Stalinist dictators like Saddam and Arafat; she was demonstrably a useful idiot.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I’ve participated in heavy equipment accident investigations. In my experience, from the evidence shown in the photos, she was not run over by the bulldozer.

The type of injuries reported in the article are not consistent with being run over by a bulldozer, but are consistent with either being hit by the bucket of the bulldozer or debris from something the bucket hit.

That she was alive for the “golden hour” after the accident also indicates that she wasn’t run over once, let alone twice. Being run over by a piece of heavy equipment results in massive traumatic injuries. The Pals report that she died of multiple head and chest fractures. If the bulldozer tires had gone over her head and chest, she would have been killed immediately. (And nobody would ever want to look at a post-accident picture.)

As to how this accident could have happened -- Well, they happen all the time, usually not to people playing “chicken”. A bulldozer cannot stop on a dime, even if the operator becomes aware of someone in his path and hits the brakes, the inertia of the bulldozer is going to carry it an extra few feet.

I find it difficult to believe that there is no video of the incident. I thought all good human rights protesters carried video cameras as part of their standard operating equipment.

This to me, poses an interesting metaphysical question: Where do well- meaning- but- wrong- headed- persons- who- die- doing- idiotic- things- to- protect- bad- people go when they die?

elcaptian..the same bulldozer? so your not just dumb your also blind. if she was killed by a bulldozer directly she would look like a pancake with an orange jacket on. the thing weights 20 tons, imagine the house you live in falling on you, that might leave a mark dont you think?

Um, by playing “chicken” I mean that most of these types of accidents do not result from someone deliberately placing themselves in front of a bulldozer.

#99

Where do well- meaning- but- wrong- headed- persons- who- die- doing- idiotic- things- to- protect- bad- people go when they die?

I was wondering the same exact thing.

For us Catholics, it would probably be purgatory.

#79 Or do you believe that every home the IDF bulldozes is a "terrorist" home?

That's what the IDF says. Every home that's demolished is either the home of a terrorist ( or 'militant' ) or serves as a shelter for snipers or a workshop for bombs and rockets.. every home that is demolished is a part of the terrorist infrastructure.

Can you give me a reason to believe otherwise?

#94 Bez

These pictures are all over the place and are being accepted by just about everyone.

Yeah, and how pathetic is that? Just goes to show you how easy it is to fool some of the people all of the time, I guess you're just one of those people.

So when have you been in an armored bulldozer of that size? I assume you have been in order to make your judgement calls on the soldier's fault.

I feel just as bad for this poor soldier as I do for police officers who are the unfortunate tools of "death by police officer" shootings.

Your unflinching loyalty to the same "just about everyone" that repeated the Jenin lies is very telling.

Oh, and that’s not a real U.S. flag -- It looks like it was put together with stencils and spray paint.

The red and white stripes are not the same width.

Bez,

You still haven't responded to my post (#41).

In #94, you say that

The Israelis themselves are not disputing them

Are you referring to the Israeli government or to newspaper accounts found in Israeli newspapers?

#100

elcaptian..the same bulldozer? so your not just dumb your also blind. if she was killed by a bulldozer directly she would look like a pancake with an orange jacket on

Somehow, she was killed by the bulldozer.

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

IDF Capt. Jacob Dallal of the IDF Spokesperson's Office said Corrie's death was accidental. "This is a regrettable accident," Dallal said. "We are dealing with a group of protesters who were acting very irresponsibly, putting everyone in danger."

Why would it be an accident that is "regrettable", if the bullldozer wasn't involved in the death?

Feel free to insult me, but you can't escape reality.

Her actions were completely irresponsible, but it's to be determined what exactly happened.

All this other "photoshop" non-sense, is just absurd. Point me to a doctored picture and let us analyze it, but c'mon, even the IDF knows there was an incident with a bulldozer!

Seriously, I would like to hear the detractors try to explain how she could have been killed by the bulldozer.

Look at the pictures. The only imaginable way that she could have been killed is if she laid down or sat down in the shovel while the bulldozer was moving, got entangled in something, and was crushed. As #100 points out, she was not run over.

This is the only plausible scenario, and it is obvious that she dissapeared from the view of the driver once she got up-close to the shovel. So he probably thought that she got out of the way and kept moving forward. When he realized that she hadn't, he pulled back.

As someone said on a previous thread, stupidity is not a crime, but it rarely goes unpunished.

the reality of the situation is that the dumbass died from debris moved by a bulldozer. the reality is that she tried to play chicken with a machine that weights 20 tons. the reality is that photoshopped doctored photos shouldnt be passed off as fact. the reality is the pals will use this poor moron as a martyr to further blow up people in buses or in public squares. and the reality is her organization will go to lengths to doctor photos to futher there so-called cause.

the first comment you made was in response to someone challenging the integrity of the photos not how she died. we all know she was killed by a bulldozer but dont be so naive to think that people wouldnt vault this issue to fuel a cause, even if that meant doctoring images.

Spin doctors at the BBC have come up with this nauseating obituary: Activist who died for conviction.

She was a student at Evergreen State College in her local town of Olympia in Washington State, which is known for its liberal sensibilities.

The 23-year-old arranged peace events there before joining, through local group Olympians for Peace and Solidarity, a Palestinian-led organisation that uses non-violent means to challenge Israeli army tactics in the West Bank and Gaza.

[...]

Her father Craig Corrie, speaking to the AP news agency from his home in Charlotte, North Carolina, said: "We've tried to bring up our children to have a sense of community, a sense of community that everybody in the world belonged to.

"Rachel believed that - with her life, now."

He said that he and his wife were still trying to find out the details of what happened.

"Rachel was proud, and we are proud of Rachel that she was able to live with her convictions.

"Rachel was filled with a love and sense of duty to our fellow man, wherever they lived, and she gave her life trying to protect those that could not protect themselves."

"Filled with love"? C'mon, Craig, you must be joking, right?

This guy doesn't really have a clue about his daughter's "peaceful" demonstrations, burning flags in the streets of Gaza with those jolly gunmen of Hamas, Fatah & Co. No wonder poor Rachel didn't know what hit her.

Mourners held candles and photocopied pictures of her with the word "Peacemaker", as well as banners urging the United States to stop aid to Israel and avoid war with Iraq.

The Vice President of Student Affairs at Evergreen State College, Art Costantino says on his online notive of her death that she was a "shining star, a wonderful student and a brave person of deep convictions".

Larry Mosqueda, one of Ms Corrie's Evergreen professors and a fellow activist said: "She was concerned about human rights and dignity. That's why she was there."

Who knows? Larry could be next. We should be so lucky...

Looking at these images, and I think I get why so much of the left, especially the Hollywood left, supports Palestinian terrorism.

Look at how well the Palestinians have managed to pick up the colors, signs, and protest techniques used by peace activists, anti-globalists, environmentalists, feminists, ACT-UP, and all the other activist organizations. A leftist activist looks at that and sees family. It also does not hurt that Palestinians and the left are united in their anti-Americanism.

The less active lefties may not be as compelled by the street theater, but the Palestinians are giving Oscar-caliber performances in the role of the righteous victim underdog. The Israelis, with their uniforms, order, and restraint, are cast as the villains. When was the last time you saw a movie in which the rational guys in suits and uniforms were the good guys? Hollywood has sort of brainwashed us to believe that idealistic rebels are *always* the good guys, and the guys in uniforms representing established order are *always* the bad guys. People who don't give a lot of thought to things, and rely solely on images and emotions to shape their beliefs, are all but programmed to be sympathetic toward Palestinians.

She may have been killed by a bulldozer, but she was most certainly not run over by a bulldozer twice as the "Palestinians" claim.

#109

and the reality is her organization will go to lengths to doctor photos to futher there so-called cause.

Which photos are doctored?

I wouldn't doubt that they could do that, but the pictures I saw seem real to me.

I didn't say I tought she was ran over by the bulldozer, specially twice! I find that hard to believe.

However, this photoshop stuff, is just baffling. What are people talking about here? The images don't seem to be edited at all. The images also don't say much, they just say she was in front of the bulldozer at some point, and then later she is badly injured.

she was killed by stupidity not a man made machine. and i think the movie black hawn down kind of goes against your reasoning 111, although i do believe it has some merit

#113, El C. Go back to post 1 , reread to post 112 including links. Then come back.No offence.

Really, 107...noone has to show you anything. I, for one, could give a shit what you think.

After the Al-Dura hoax, which the Israeli Army ran to apologize for, only to find the entire thing was a setup, I am skeptical about any visuals supplied by the AP, Reuters, etc. Also, I think it strangely conveniant that these photos pop up with the different "angles", and a perfectly bright red jacket that the press keeps alluding to. No dust on it, no dirt...just a nice red sheen in a filthy, dirty, dusty environment. And she has a jacket on that looks like it just went to the Gaza dry cleaners.

And what's this bullshit about a bullhorn? Why no CLEAR pictures of her face with the bullhorn? NOONE in the press mentioned a bullhorn yesterday.

Noone, not the Pals, not the press, not apologists like you, really cares about this girl. She is nothing but a symbol to be exploited by jew-haters and Israel bashers alike.

This whole thing is just a bunch ofcrap. What the headlines should read are, "Jewish Bulldozer driven by Jewish Driver kills nice, peace-loving, non-Jewish girl trying to protect Arabs who are victims of Jewish power."

Because that's all this about in the end.

Where do well-meaning-but-wrong-headed-persons-who-die-doin g-idiotic-things-to-protect-bad-people go when they die?

For us Catholics, it would probably be purgatory.

No. Its a tossup between the 7th circle of hell (violence to self aka suicide) , the 5th circle (the wrathful), or my favorite, circle 8 (hypocrites, evil counselors, sowers of discord, and falsifiers).

i feel for this woman's family. they sent her away to college and they lost her. my wife went to evergreen, btw, and has tons of stories of hippies running amok.

while this is sad, i would like to point out that, to our friends the palis, americans attending college in israel are "putting themselves in harm's way," while american's standing in front of bulldozers in gaza are "martyrs."

these people are insane. there is no way to win.

After the Al-Dura hoax, which the Israeli Army ran to apologize for, only to find the entire thing was a setup, I am skeptical about any visuals supplied by the AP, Reuters, etc.

Very good point.

This is such a bunch of shit.

This woman was a terrorist sympathizer who stood in front of a fucking bulldozer. Meantime, Jewish women and children are being blown to bits by Allah fanatics, and we don't hear a fraction of the sympathy or attention being paid to them. The last bus bombing had a Jewish-AMERICAN girl on it who was part of an Arab-Israeli COEXSITENCE organization. A REAL MOVEMENT. NOt a bunch of spoiled American college students running around as terrorist shields and calling themselves peace activists.

Give me a fucking break. I'm sick of this shit.

116

davesax

Really, 107...noone has to show you anything. I, for one, could give a shit what you think.

No problem, if you don't give a crap, don't read my posts and more importantly, don't bother replying.

I haven't said anything controversial, or offensive for you to get on a hissy fit.

As I said, what this woman did was foolish, and I would add, the people that probably put her up for this should be held responsible in some way.

But I don't the photos being fake. The photos are just there, they don't really say much. Which is, how did she exactly die.

If you can't handle discussion that simple but important point, yeah, don't bother giving a shit what I think and just move along.

sec humanist....the picture of Rachel on the ground with 2 people...shows one stream of blood from her hair...

NO BLOOD ON HER BODY....

this woman was not run over....she may have been hit by the side of the blade....

look again, little more than half way down

[Link: electronicintifada.net...]

no blood anywhere on her body

Tale of 2 pictures:

2 mock American flags (one burnt)

1 mock coffin

1 deceased mock American flag burner

1 mock nationality that only exists to mock Israel

1 mock religion built on genocide and forced conversions

Is there a trend here?

someone save this picture before it gets pulled from the internet.....

I am now convinced that those are two different bulldozers. The bulldozer where it shows her on the megaphone has blue paint that is mostly worn off. The one where it shows her on the ground looks like it has been painted recently.

Cap:

I have no idea if the photos are fake or not, but I'm suspicious of anything that comes out of said media organizations, for the reasons I've stated above. And I stand by my statements about the "red Jacket" bullshit. Why is the press trying to play that up so much?

Sorry I lashed out, Cap.

#126

Sorry I lashed out, Cap.

No prob, it's a very emotional issue. It's to be expected.

Who took these pictures? There's mention of one other protester that was "injured", so were there 3 people here. Where did the others come from ( I see 3 people with her ).

#89 Ryan

You would be right if they were bulldozing empty homes -- well, at least you would be closer to right.

The problem is the repeated murdering being done by the bulldozers... like the preganant woman last week.

Demolishing homes is still inhumane (yes, as is blowing up busses).

#96 ElCapitanAmerica
"It's the same bulldozer, what are you talking about?"

I don't know anything about forensics, but there are some things that are puzzling about the before and after pictures in #73.

Look at the red-covered shovel in the before picture, and the blue-covered shovel in the after picture. Were these taken at the same time of day?

Look at the lights in the red one, the before picture, and see that the lights are below the roof. Look at the lights in the blue one, the after picture, and see that the lights are above the roof.

Look at the dirt on the shovel. Different pattern.

Look at the horizon. Different.

Seems suspicious to me.

What a repulsive little site. However, whenever community resources don't provide mental health services, I suppose these vile sites will proliferate. To our disservice, racism and chauvinism have become fashionable again.

please, people. The photos are real. It's the same bulldozer- the driver turned around the cabin to back it up.

131

huh?

Again and finally: she was a True Believer killed by the lies of postmodernism and the arab propoganda those lies enable and perpetuate and inflate. She was a sad, brainwashed, misinformed little girl with a head full of postmodernist rot. Tragic. Her family must be devastated. Sadly, another will quickly fill her shoes.

#131, um bulldozer's cabins DONT turn around.

#130, feel free to point out the "racism" that you see here. The race card is thrown so often by ignorant leftists that real racism may become ignored in the future.

Ever hear that little tale about the boy who cried wolf???

#131:

Umm...huh?

#129

OK, good questions., but is that really a "red colored shovel" or is that the reflection of the color of the ground? To me, it looks like a reflection.

BTW, does anybody have other pictures of these bulldozers used by Isreal?

makes me wonder if 131 actually saw the photos or he/she is just popping off his/her mouth.

Bulldozer

Look, there is no disputing that the two bulldozers ARE different. Just look at the lights, thats all you need to see. However, as Caton pointed out to me before, the reports stated that there were 2 bulldozers involved in knocking down the houses. That still doesn't discount the fact that there is something fishy about the pictures.

OT Just heard on Fox that there is an official, but unconfirmed, report that Sodom has moved trucks with chemical warheads close to the no-fly zone.

I can't believe those reports though. Sodom said he didn't have any chem. weapons.

Bill, you read my mind...

Sorry to all for the redundant 'huh'

I think he's just popping off.

Bulldozer cabins are probably stationary. I checked out Catepillar's site and the chair may rotate but the entire cabin stays put. It isn't a crane.

This is just a hypothesis, but.. is there a possibility that she wasn't even killed by the bulldozer? As post #100 explains, she certainly wasn't runover by the bulldozer as can be seen by the 'after' photos, if she was, it would be a hideous site, not a nose bleed. Furthermore, you can see that in the first photo on the EI webpage, its early in the day, then the bulldozer reversed, and the photo is taken much later that day.
On the first photo, the sun is on the left, and in the second on the right. Could her body been placed there afterwards?

I'm not coming to any conclusions, just a thought. Afterall, Arabs are well known for staging fake deaths... (ie. Al-Dourha, Jenin Massacre, etc.)

Joseph Smith (no, not the founder of the Mormon Church, but rather the Joseph Smith who is a member of the International Solidarity Movement) says that the bulldozer operator scooped Corrie up with a pile of earth, dumped her on the ground, and ran over her twice.

Like the Al-Dura tragedy, what we see here is the Palestinians and their supporters taking what appears to have been an accidental death and portraying it as cold-blooded murder.

Another blood libel.

And look how the Western press is falling all over it.

How many reports do you think will describe the ISM as an organization that resists "the occupation" without mentioning that the "occupation" that the ISM boasts of resisting is the occupation that began in 1948, not the one that began in 1967?

The IDF was operating against the arms smuggling that is rampant in Rafah. Much of this smuggling is done by organizations that the U.S. has identified as terrorist groups. That means that these people are supporting terrorism.

Shame on the U.S. State Department for demanding an investigation from the Israelis but not from the Palestinians. And shame on the Justice Department for not opening a criminal investigation of American "peace" groups who support terrorist organizations active in the West Bank and Gaza.

RightisRight,

What I've read is that there should have been two armored D9 bulldozers and a tank for protection. I've yet to see the tank or the IDF soldier or even the driver of the bulldozer on question.

To ElCapitanAmerican #107:

If you read the article carefully that you have linked to, you'll find that all the tales that give any details of what happened are from Palestinians or Palestinian sympathizers. Therefore, we have no idea what the Israelis claim happened, except that her death was accidental and regrettable, and that the protestors had put themselves in danger. Hard to argue with that. It IS regrettable, in my opinion--I'm not one of those who is glad for the death of a very misguided and deluded young woman. But "regrettable" does NOT make it the fault of the Israelis.

Whatever the veracity or lack thereof of the photos of this particular incident, there is NO QUESTION that the Palestinians have lied many times in the past about similar incidents, and have faked photos. That is why the people here have their doubts, and await further statements from the Israelis to hear their side of it. No doubt there will be some sort of investigation. After the Dura incident, in which Israel initially took responsibility and then after an investigation realized that Israeli bullets most likely did not kill the boy, we are (and should be!) skeptical of even Israeli claims of responsibility, before a full report has been issued. But, in this case, the Israeli statement you quote is very noncommital and general.

#128

That woman was in a neigboring house.

The IDF announces over a loudspeaker that they are going to demolish the home, and that everyone should get out- which is basically an invitation for any gunmen in the area to come and have it out with them.

Demolishing homes is still inhumane (yes, as is blowing up busses).

The demolitions are clearly reactions to suicide bombings and other attacks. The IDF declares who the house belonged to. It is frequently reported in the Israeli papers, while not so often in foreign media(i.e. 'House of Otniel Attacker Demolished', etc.)

When the enemy is being inhumane with you(killing you in your homes, malls and busses, firing rockets at your cities!!!) you get inhumane with them, if that's what it takes.

#138

Thanks for the picture of the bulldozer.

That shovel is not painted, what I think we are seeing there is the reflection of the sky and the ground, and it looks different from one picture to the other because of changes in the lighting conditions of the picture.

[Link: www.flashpoints.info...]

This image of a similar incident, i think more clearly shows how there's an "inverted reflection" (vertical) effect on that shovel.

It doesn't make sense for those shovels to be painted anyways.

Yesterday: ([Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

She fell in front of the machine, which ran over her and then backed up, witnesses said.

ElectronicIntifada today -
Initially he dropped sand and other heavy debris on her, then the bulldozer pushed her to the ground where it proceeded to drive over her, fracturing both of her arms, legs and skull. Initially he dropped sand and other heavy debris on her, then the bulldozer pushed her to the ground where it proceeded to drive over her, fracturing both of her arms, legs and skull.

Seattle Times today -Smith, who witnessed Sunday's incident, said it began when Corrie sat down in front of the bulldozer. He said the driver scooped her up with a pile of earth, dumped her on the ground and ran over her twice. Smith said Corrie was dressed in a bright orange jacket with reflective stripes.

The group said in its statement: "The bulldozer continued to advance so that she was pulled under the pile of dirt and rubble. After she had disappeared from view the driver kept advancing until the bulldozer was completely on top of her."

Storyline keeps growing...

#129

I just increased the exposure of the bulldozer pics out of curiosity.

- the bulldozers could be the same. the difference in blade color could be due to different exposures. the difference in light fixture placement could be the result of their having been raised/lowered

I would be they're the same.

- the backgrounds are different in the pics, but that could be accounted for by position and difference of camera angle -- the photo set is not frame-by-frame action -- the "before" shot could be further back in the same field; the "after" shot, closer to the building

I would bet the pics were taken in the same location.

- in the "ISM" account, the girl climbed up onto the pile of dirt *as it was being moved* by the dozer and shouted at the driver. she was sucked under a bit. the dirt was full of brush and wood, pieces of which could have snapped and hit her, perhaps fatally.

She does not appear to have been run over by tractor treads, but a little dirt, rubble, etc. would go a long way toward crushing ribs, rupturing organs, etc.

What is the smear on the dozer blade in the "after" pic?

Oh muh God, this bulldozer is, like, really heavy.

Memo to Human Shields:

The bodies of 23-year-old vegetarian airheads are incapable, due to the laws of physics, of stopping heavy machinery. Also, if you were thinking about throwing yourselves on military targets you should know that US military bombs do not automatically disarm in the presence of petchouli-soaked, unwashed, flighty, college students. Good luck in your endeavors, and God Bless America.

Shameless Plug: I blogged this story, and much other stuff, on my latest thing, you might find it interesting:

[Link: home.online.no...]

I *DO* mention the lovely students that we are currently talking about, I think it is in a suitable fashion.

Warning though some people might find my writings in very poor taste.

#130 - "Chauvinism" is a French word.

The gene pool has been cleansed. Darwin is vindicated.

Btw, Taranto hat tipped Charles. Excellent! The more people who see that photo, the better.

The Palestinians are not the only ones exploiting Rachel Corrie. Check out this this idiot.

An member of the 'International Solidarity Movement' holds a portrait of Rachel Corrie and a wreath of flowers as he stands in front of an Israeli army armored vehicle in the Rafah refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip, Tuesday, March 18, 2003, in the place where Corrie, 23, from Olympia, Washington was killed by an Israeli bulldozer last Sunday.

A few words of advice for you: Get the fuck out of the way.

What can I say? 'Lil Miss Corrie has all the traits the Palestinians enjoy in an American: Idealistic, gullible and DEAD

I don't mourn her or feel sad for her family, any more than I would mourn the loss of, or feel sadly for the family of a dead nazi. She espoused evil. She sided with the forces of evil. She desecrated the flag of the most beneficent nation that has ever existed, a nation that has seen more people benefit from it's existence than had benefited from all the nations that preceded it combined. Her motives were not benevolent. She was consumed with a hatred for the good, and contrary to any ruminations by John Donne, her death does not diminish mankind. It enhances mankind. Celebrate her death. Mourn her miserable life. If there is a hell, may she rot in it.

I think the Emperor found the right words:

Now, if only they can find a couple of stamps and an envelope big enough, they can send her home by air mail.

and

When she gets home, her fellow Appeaseniks for Saddam and Yasser can dip her in white paint, write "NO BLOOD FOR OIL" and use her as a placard.

I couldn't put it better.

#33 gymnast
You are right that the Electronic Intifada pix (see link in #21) show different dozers in the before and after pictures. Not only are the lights in a different location (below the roof in the red-blade dozer, above the roof in the blue-blade dozer) but the windows are of very different sizes.
In the "before" picture, with the dozer having the red-colored blade, the window is quite large. In the "after" picture, with the dozer having the blue-colored blade, the window is a very small one, and it is obvious that the driver could not see very much out of it. The one with the blue-colored blade and small window is more suited to a hostile military environment since it has far more protection for the driver.

You are right, the horizon is so very different in the before and after pix. These before and after pix are not only with different dozers, they are taken at different places.

There are so many stories coming out of ISM contradicting each other, that it is clear that they are fabricating things and they are hiding something.

You are right that to find out the cause of death an autopsy should be performed. A forensic pathologist is needed to try to learn something about the actual cause of death.

#159

See my comment at;

147

There is no "blue colored" or "red colored" blade, I think what you are seeing there is the reflection of the sky and the ground.

In the "before" picture, the sun is on the left. In the "after" picture, the sun is on the right. The before picture shows no clouds; the after picture shows clouds.
These pictures were not taken at the same place and same time (aside from the fact that the horizon is different and the large-window dozer on the left is different from the small-window dozer on the right).

My guess is that the ISM had a collection of the pictures of this person in her confrontations with dozers, including pix taken the week before in a confrontation with a different dozer. They had an album of dozer pix. Erroneously they included a "before" picture with an unarmored large-window dozer, and an "after" picture with an armored small-window dozer.

My guess is that the ISM is hiding the fact that there was very reckless behavior on the part of this person. The idiotic shields movement apparently sends out inadequately trained people, and they must share some of the blame for this accident. They should stick to flag-burning, instead of putting their useful idiots in harms way.

#160 ElCapitan
Maybe you are right in that there is an optical explanation for the blade colors. After all the sun appears to be red at sunrise and sunset, and that might also have influenced the colors. But why is the sun on the left in the "before" picture, while the sun is on the right in the "after" picture. And why is the sky relatively clear in the before picture, and shows clouds on the left in the after picture. Weren't these taken at different times of the day?

However, optical effects aside, how can I understand why the picture on the left shows a large window of the dozer, while the picture on the right shows a heavily armored dozer with a small window? And look at the position of the lights: below the roof on the before picture, but above the roof on the after picture. And what of the completely different horizons. Am I to believe that these are pictures of the same dozer taken moments apart?

Hey, another wave of moronic bloodthirsty ignorant fools who're only good for dancing on graves, in this lovely thread!

Such fine specimens too.

#10, Toby, shows what an idiot he is. Of course, if brave Toby (posting anonymously) really encountered any terrorists, or soldiers with rifles pointed at him, he'd probably shit his teenager pants, but hey, on Web forums, everyone can be a heroic braindead fuckwit.

#12, kathryn, provides a rate glimpse of sanity and calm tone in this sea of hysterical jerkoffs. Way to go.

#15, Tyler Patterson, has to tie it all to those evil children-killing Israeli soldiers. Oh well, stupidity is apolitical.

#31, the illiterate Andrew B: It's a good thing ANYONE in "PALESTINE" knows anything about ENGLISH GRAMMAR!!!!!

Oh man, this is priceless.

#41, whiner: I see very little reveling in the comments.

You obviously read very selectively. Or perhaps you haven't read the other two threads devoted to this story in LGF, especially the very first one.

#60, Tatterdemalian: See, the great thing about moral equivalence is that I can use it too, and it makes just as much sense!

No, you idiot, the great thing is that when a moron tries to mock "moral equivalence", his supreme idiocy usually shines through. Comparing Rachel Corrie, who did nothing violent, to the Taliban regime, is really really funny. You have to be really fucked up in the head to consider this a serious argument. I feel a bit sorry for you.

#155 Zulubaby -

Check out the tank's tracks.

I think he's chasing it, rather than blocking it. Coward.

Oh, I should say, FAT coward. ;)

Something about this thread (and the other two related ones) reminds me of that sketch in Monty Python in which a person looking for "Argument" went to the wrong room and got "Abuse" instead.

#164 Frank IMC

Who, exactly, are you thinking about? :-)

#164 Caton -

Geez, your intuitive skills are brilliant, aren't they? Maybe you'll win a Nobel Prize for Intuition, you bleeping genius.

;)

What is the difference between someone who discusses something and a troll?

Someone who discusses something has substantive arguments, whether on-target or flawed, and these can be remembered a day later, a week later, or even later than that if the person has talent. These arguments can be argued against with opposing arguments.

A troll has nothing of substance to argue, has no logical presentation. A troll comes with ad hominem attacks, and nobody can remember any argument a troll has made even 5 minutes afterward. In other words, a troll is totally ineffective, and might just as well be ignored. A troll's only purpose is to insult people, and by ignoring a troll, even that is not accomplished.

#168 EE

I am not sure... this particular troll-like poster seems to have something bugging his ass that he keeps calling 'basic decency'. I noticed, too, that 'basic decency' does not seem to mean 'respecting people or their opinions'. That does not mean there is no argument behind it. It probably is deeply buried in the troll-like poster's ass, that's all...

Another three threads and 1,000 comments and I'm sure the argument will appear.

162
EE;

Maybe you are right in that there is an optical explanation for the blade colors. After all the sun appears to be red at sunrise and sunset, and that might also have influenced the colors. But why is the sun on the left in the "before" picture, while the sun is on the right in the "after" picture. And why is the sky relatively clear in the before picture, and shows clouds on the left in the after picture. Weren't these taken at different times of the day?

Let's link to the 2 pictures we are talking about;

1 Image before incident

2 Image after incident

I don't know if one picture is really more cloudly than the other. If you look at the picture where her friends are picking her up, it looks like it has more light than in #2. That's just the exposure and lighting conditions of the camera. You probably have taken home pictures that show these differences too.

However, optical effects aside, how can I understand why the picture on the left shows a large window of the dozer, while the picture on the right shows a heavily armored dozer with a small window? And look at the position of the lights: below the roof on the before picture, but above the roof on the after picture. And what of the completely different horizons. Am I to believe that these are pictures of the same dozer taken moments apart?

The positions of the lights, is I think, the same. It's the angle you have to watch for. In #2, the image is taken from a much lower angle. The lights are positioned in the same location, the only difference is that in #2 they seem to be higher. Again, that's just the angle.

The window, is the same size too. They look smaller on #2 because of the angle making the rear window not be very visible. That is, on #1, the front and back windows are more algined, and the sense of size of the front window is given by the light from the back window. On #2, the back window is mostly obscured, so the front window seems to be smaller. They're not, they're exactly the same size.

Whoops, I mangled the url for "Image 1"

image 1

#169 Caton -

[he] seems to have something bugging [him] that he keeps calling 'basic decency'.

Which as he has said repeatedly, is supposedly different from "good and evil", the concept of which is "evil", whoops, I mean "indecent".

{sigh}

Anatoly: I'm getting really sick and tired of your nasty and insulting tone. Cut it out, or I'm going to ban you. If you have points to make, you can do it without these over the top insults. You get one warning.

#173, Charles:

To be banned from LGF for... nasty tone? Boy, that would really be an achievement, wouldn't it?

I mean, when some dumb brainwashed leftist chick posts here and gets shouted with multiple "ignorant ****"-s, everyone'd be really surprised to see you step in and ask people to tone it down.

But I guess you're not the one for fairness, are you? It's tempting to add "didn't think so", but the sad thing is, I did.

Fine, I'm outta here. Continue to revel in your collective creepiness, people. I know you will. I'm going to hang out a bit more in a certain high-traffic translation-oriented mailing list dominated by left liberals. There I'm currently being called a fascist and a neo-Stalinist for being pro-war and supporting the US, but at least they don't threaten to ban me, so that's one point in their favour.

#174 Anatoly

I don't know how many comments you posted, but I noticed you have failed to present any argument in any of them, including this one. Which is the reason most people think you are nothing more than a bad-mannered foul-mouthed troll.

Do you have any point to make? any argument to expose? Anything meaningful to say?

#162, 171 ElCapitanAmerica
Look at the clear photos at Elctronic Intifada that #21 linked to.

In the before picture, protruding from the roof is an object that is wider, has less height, and is equidistant from the lights, compared to the after picture, where protruding from the roof is an object that is narrower, taller, and is much closer to the lights on the right (the relative distances are in the ratio of about 2.4:1). The shapes are quite different, and so are the positions relative to the lights. How am I to believe that these are photos of the same object?

In the before picture, protruding from the roof is an object that is wider, has less height, and is equidistant from the lights, compared to the after picture, where protruding from the roof is an object that is narrower, taller,

I see that one and have no answer for it :-)

But before I give up, we would all benefit from a more decent quality image. I zoomed in both of these pictures to take a look at this object, and I can't do much with it because of the crappy resolution.

#162, 171 ElCapitanAmerica
Look again at the photos in link #21. Apart from the different shape and location of the object protruding from the roof, look at the spacing between the centers of the left lights and the right lights.

In the before photo, the centers of the lights on the left of the photo are relatively far apart, compared to the centers of the lights on the right of the that before photo. They are in the ratio of about 1.50 to 1.

But in the after photo, the centers of the lights on the left of the photo are about the same distance as the centers of the lights on the right of the after photo -- the ratio is only about 1.07 to 1.

How am I to believe that these are the same?

#177 ElCapitanAmerica

See
[Link: electronicintifada.net...]

I am as puzzled as you are by the differently shaped and differently located protrusion from the roof.
And I don't understand why the relative spacings between the centers of the light-pairs are different in the before and after photos.

But look at the pattern of dirt smears on the blade, in the lower left quarter of the blade photos. If these were photos taken moments apart, why is the dirt pattern completely different. Shouldn't I expect at least some similarity? As far as I can see, there is not a single dirt smear in one that corresponds to a dirt smear in the same location in the other photo. Why is there no correlation at all?

ElCapitainAmerica
See
[Link: electronicintifada.net...]
It seems to me that the lights are fastened to the dozer in different ways in the before and after pix.
I have tried to believe that these are the same dozer, but I am not able to do it.

The multiple stories smell very fishy to me, also. Why would the ISM have so many different contradictory stories?

My conclusion is that some investigation is needed.

I don't see why they put an American flag on her! She all ready showed she isn't a true American by burnig a mock flag in hatered.
I feel sory that a life was wasted. I also feel sorry that someone tricked her into thinking that what she was doing was right.
Those Anti Americans discust me.

Playing with, taunting, or stand on heavy machinery while it is in motion is hazardous. You couldn't pay me to do what corrie did, at a local construction site, much less a war zone in the mid-east.

Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball!

Barley Bob

I just gotta say one thing:

I'm really upset that I wasn't the driver.

Check out my new website I have put up with information about the lying Palestinian Propaganda re the death of Rachel Corrie. Frances

It's interesting that the pictures are what fascinates everyone. Are the pictures propoganda? Sure. Does it even matter if they are real or "doctored"? No. She is dead...my father worked with hers, and called me about it. She is dead, and she was pretty stupid.

So how do the pictures even matter, really?

I think its amazing arrogant to assume that your American "immunity" can shield yourself--and others as she was trying to do--from the brutal ugly realities of a country that is too hung up on its past persecutions on both sides to have a normal life.

Think about it, her whole reason for being there, as she says herself, was to be a human shield, to save Palestinian homes and people from persecution by being her American, vegan, rriot grrl self. It is terribly sad for her family that she was selfish enough not to realize she wasn't invulnerable--then again, most people at 23 are kinda like that in some way or another.

I sympathize with her family wanting to make something meaningful out of her death, but like any death from violence, there's very little sense. It's sad that peace activists are such an ugly mockery of what peace could actually mean.

I don't know who annoys me more, hawks or hippies.