Well, what do you expect from a country that still speaks French? We'll just have to return the favor. And, 1st!

French-Canadians.

Oh, and... Boobies! Er...

Might as well have been burning flags for the message they were sending

Nice. REAL class.

Well, they're obviously not afraid of us, so I guess that's ok. On the other hand, sometimes you have to be a little afraid to respect someone...

It much better to be feared than loved.
Love can fade but fear is much harder to shake...

In other news, Chretien is telling his administration to simmer down now.

Perhaps this type of crap should have the USA take a look at NAFTA.

I don't think we should shoot ourselves in the foot jst to gratify anti-Canadian sentiment.

We should continue to use their help and gas and oil to get richer.

Let them grow rich by helping us. Then they can become self haters like the Hollywood crowd.

Where is NOB?

Cut them off from their wintering grounds in Florida. Send CIA operatives to work with indigenous forces in northern Quebec. Maybe the Iraquoi, Algonquin, and Mohawk can recover their independence and sovereignty. Quebec will fall easier than Afghanistan. Then we can bring them some semblance of civilization. Canada is to blame for most evil in the world, as they plot our downfall. They may look like us, but are obsessed with weird sports like hockey. Rocky and Bullwinkle are just one small part of their disinformation campaign aimed at the American heartland. Those artic air masses are not an accident. They are sent down here intentionally. Vengance now. Send the tornados north.

NAFTA was a bad idea for US mfg workers and companies. Glad the canucs lost that hockey game. I hope the US attendees behaved themselves during the Canadian national anthem.

They've showed themselves for the CESMs they really are. Theyve firmly planted their lips on the ass of the axis of weasels.

Maybe some Canadians could advise if the People of Quebec represent the Anglo Canadians in the other provinces.

Is it true that the English speaking population of Quebec is reducing.

Next time they have another campaign for Libre Quebec, ask them to leave.

Haven't Canadians been doing this forever?

Slightly OT, but you may be interested to know that New Zealanders seem to feel the same way about Australia that Canadians feel about the US.

Its something to do with the little brother syndrome. They need to feel that they are better than us. Plenty of Ozzie flags are being burnt in NZ by their lunatic fringe. Sometimes I think they represent a minority, but other times I'm not so sure.

If it hadn't been for the significant loss of Aussie life in Indonesia, we might be hearing more anti-Americanism from them now, instead of having them beside us in the Coalition of the Willing. Amazing how such a loss concentrates the mind. I wish no similar loss for the Canadians, seeing them lose on the ice is preety sweet, however. If my Islanders are knocked out of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, I'll be rooting against any Canadian based team on the ice. May America keep the Cup!

Bagdad is the key to Riyadh.
You take Riyadh, you take Paris.
You take Paris, you take Berlin.
from Berlin it's on to ottawa, then......home.

#12

Unfortunately, these feelings are fairly widespread. Most Canadians simply don't realize what a tremendous benefit it has been for us to have the USA as a neighbour and ally. The fact that we have not fully reciprocated this friendship is shameful in the extreme. I've tried to explain this to my friends, but am usually met with howls of indignant protests.

Canada owes its prosperity to the fact that we have the world's largest market at our doorstep, and that market has been, overall, very good to us. We also owe our peace of mind to knowing that we live under the American defense umbrella. For too long, Canadians have taken these things for granted, and perhaps it is time for Washington to remind us of them.

So here's what I suggest. Treat us like Mexico for a while. Make entry to the US difficult. Impose tariffs on our goods. Let the Canadian government and the people know in no uncertain terms on which side their bread is buttered on.

Make no mistake, I love Canada. But I also have a consience. I'm ashamed that we have let you down at a time when even words of support would have counted for something. Help my compatriots see the error of their ways. Hopefully, they'll come around. If not, please tell me the most efficient way to emigrate down south.

kind regards,

Gapper

Let's not get too wound up here. The day after 4 Cdn. soldiers were killed in the friendly fire incident in Afghanistan the Canadian anthem was lustily booed at the Palace in Auburn Hills prior to a Pistons/Toronto Raptors game.

This incident reminds me of the (American) crowd booing when Aussie Steve Bradbury won Australia's first winter gold medal just. Sorry.

Shameful.

I'm in Toronto, and I have an extremely hard time finding someone - anyone - who'll simply say, "The Americans are doing the right thing against a murdering thug." There's always a "but" at the end, so to speak.

I can sort of understand partisanship when it comes to sports, although it still shows terrible lack of respect, but these are life-and-death situations, and respect of one nation for another is highly significant.

Can I get my green card now? Or do I have to petition as a refugee?

Always nice to see the Habs thrashed...

Here's a quote from today's Globe & Mail:

"The day Canada finally stands up to the U.S. is the day the U.S. will finally respect it."

LGFers, I'm Canadian and not very proud of my country's government and particularly the female representatives who feel free to call Bush a moron and say they hate American bastards. As for the Quebecois, they like the French always manage to shoot themselves in the foot. Recently, the Quebec economy was recuperating from its self-induced political fallout, Montreal was flourishing and all seemed well - so what happens, the ultras decide it's time for another onslaught on the English language while the stupid lefties in the ROC - rest of Canada- decide it's okay to stick their tongues out at the big bad wolf south of the border. None of the people in the hate America faction have real jobs or live in the real world nor do they understand what powers the Canadian ecnomy - trade with the US. Remember too that the twisted face ignoramus, Cretien is in power with 40% of the popular vote and your left leaning media had hissy fits about Bush being behind Gore by a few thousands in the popular vote. Please start a campaign in the US to stop Bush from treating Cretien like a human being - he's a thug - and protest Bush's scheduled May 5th visit to Ottawa. The Liberal government deserves a slap in the face and you can give it to them. Don't miss the opportunity. Don't let your great president be used by these creeps for an orgy of grandstanding.

#12 Simple, Quebec is not part of Canada.

#17 Very well said Gapper, apparently 85% of our exports go directly to the US. Close (or even significantly restrict) the border and watch Canada shrivel up and die in a manner of weeks.

#20 I live in Toronto as well, and I agree 100% with you!

Its a nice city actually, but they do have a tradition of booing anthems - usually the Canadian one though...

#21

Read Canadian National Post for the conservative Canadian news/commentary.

Chuck the G&L.

Canada was founded on anti-Americanism, it exists on Anti-Americanism and it will die because of Anti-Americanism.

Most Canadians resent the fact that were it not for the Americans, we would all be living in igloos and eating raw seal blubber.

As a Canadian, I deeply resent the attitudes of my fellow citizens. Canada can always be counted on to back frogistan on any moonbat proposal. Kyoto, the world court etc, etc. Anything to spit in the face of the great satan.

Now, how do I get my Green Card?

#22-Millie Woods

I agree. Even our favourite lefty/socialist Svend Robinson (member of parliment) is planning to boo or harass GWB when he visits. You know Layton won't be far behind. Thank god he isn't an elected member, yet.

Also to my american friends and allies, don't feel bad about the anthem. The Quebecois even boo the Canadian National anthem (only when its sung in english, of course)
That's just the way they are. I wish they had seceded (spelling?) years ago. They are what we call "a have not province". I believe Canada gives them more tax dollars than they collect. Most French Canadians (not all) never apperciate what's done for them.

The reality is that Canada's national anthem is booed on a regular basis at sporting events throughout the U.S. Haven't heard any of you complaining about your own citizens behaviour.

A small majority of Canadians may disagree with this war, but are not booing America - they are booing the war - nothing else. Relax. Aim your vitriol where it truly belongs - not at your largest trading partner...

For our honeymoon in June my fiancee and I were planning to go to Nova Scotia. Well, no more. After Cretin, er Chretien, snubbed us I cancelled the plans. We're now planning to visit New England.

That's a couple thousand US bucks Canada will never see...

I've always found the Canadians of Montreal to be the worst of the bunch (far worse then the Quebecers).

That being said the Habs are in 10 place and for all intent and purpose out of the playoffs.

Sour grapes and all, you know.

And the New York Islanders kicked their asses. Hard!

Yup. Look what happens when you piss us off.

When are they going to learn? Don't s--t in my backyard, I will scoop it up and make you eat it!

Mark Steyn keeps warning the Canadians that they're playing with fire with this stuff, but apparently some aren't listening.

Hey, Quebecois, I have visited Montreal before and have spent money there. And I won't be going again until you cut this crap out.

Is there anywhere on the net where I can find a comprehensive list of all Canadian, Mexican, Chilian, French and German products that are sold in the US?
I for one am boycotting them all and planning my next vacation in Australia.

The Islander players knew there was going to be trouble before the game [NY Post]:

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

And read the first few paragraphs of this "objective" game recap [Montreal Gazette]:

[Link: www.canada.com...]

WWDKD.
What Would Duddy Kravitz do?

I am officially ashamed to be Canadian. I live in Ottawa, and I swear I can see the heat rising from that pile up on Parliment Hill.

American, please take me to your land of the free. I want in.

Deja vu.... [Link: espn.go.com...]

My country has dishonoured itself with its recent behaviour, I have never been angrier or more ashamed.

For what it's worth, this Canadian thinks that the US is fighting the good fight for all of us, and as friends and allies, we are morally obligated to participate, or at least voice our support.

Instead, we have betrayed our closest and most important friend when our support was most needed.

I still love Canada, and think we have the potential to be great. But goddammnit, a green card sounds pretty good, right about now...

#29

Please don't cancel your plans, Nova Scotia is a great English speaking part of Canada that is poor enough to need every tourist dollar it get.

Quebec on the otherhand is French speaking. I don't know what speaking French does to people, be Quebec or France but it seems to turn people into selfcentered asses. Quebec is always claiming that if it does not get more from the rest of Canada that it will seperate, and if you poll most Canadians you will find that they want to get rid of the Quebec's whining (ie leave already).

I think alot of Canadains are like me, they don't trust Bush's personal reasons for pushing this war, but most of us really want Saddam out of power and are glad that the USA is doing such a good job of it.

#10

You watch too much South Park!

Ascribing all those powers to Canadians, limp dicks all of them.

U.S. should close the border with Canada and Quebec in particular for a week or so.

American tourists should spend their money at home.

And please don't believe all those Canadians trying to distance themselves from Quebec. Most Canadians think the same way.

I think a lot of Americans are like you too Earl.

Charles,

For what it's worth, about 53% of the Islanders are Canadians, 29% are 'other' (Swedish, Czech, Russian, Finnish & German), while 18% are American.

#31 Joy - Does this mean that the Islanders are us or them ?

Cheers,

(Partisan rant from Hockeytown). So when was the last time a Canadian team won the Cup? Canadian hockey is going the way of the Canadian military I suppose, and they can't stand it. Canadian hockey players are switching to US citizenship in droves, just because of the outrageous taxes! The Cup will stay in Detroit!!

As Homer once said of Canada:

Why should we leave America to visit America Jr. ?

The Montreal and Ottawa regions have been two major Canadian hotbeds for Islamofascists, due to the high concentration of radical fundamentalists in these cities.

What's surprising to see is that happen at a Montreal Canadiens game (not too many of these elements care about hockey or have the means to purchase an expensive ticket to watch a live NHL game).

This must mean the morons disrespecting the US national anthem are probably Quebecois separatists who hate anything English and their neighbours to the South. Incidentally, popular surveys indicate that according to popular opinion, Quebec represents the province with the highest level of disapproval of the US-led effort to destroy Saddam.

#28 Flanstein

I have been to dozens upon dozens of NHL games in the U.S. over the last 15 years. Never heard the Canadian anthem booed. Dallas, St. Louis, Chicago, LA, Buffalo, MSG, Washington, Nashville, and more, never heard it booed. Haven't been to Philly or Detroit, however, the two places I would expect the most classless behaviour.....but this isn't consistent with your generalization that it happens on a regular "basis at sporting events throughout the U.S." However, I am sure your status as a Canadian with a TV esconces you as the authority of record on these matters.

Interesting.

#18 Jerry

Why would we boo the Canadian National Anthem after their soldiers died? I never heard this story, it sounds far-fetched to me.

#29 Alan

Ya, I would recommend still going to Nova Scotia and environs. Greenbacks go a loooong way up there and it's beautiful that time of year.

I seem to notice a political divide between eastern and western provinces. BC (excepting much of Vancouver), Alberta and Saskatchewan are very much in tune with American values of individualism and self-sufficiency. Heck, go to Calgary during Stampede and you'll think you're in Texas. In fact, they out-Texas Texas for one week, it's great!

Years and years ago at Yankee Stadium, the fans booed the Canadian National Anthem during a Yankees-Blue Jays game. Steinbrenner to his credit had a message read out over the loud speaker the next day reminding the fans that Canada had been an ally in two World Wars, Korea and had helped Americans escape from Iran. I doubt though that the Canucks in Quebec will return the favor.

#46 Rational Wisdom

If you think Detroit is classless then you don't know much about hockey. Detroit is one of the most respectful venues in the NHL. And, the Canadian anthem is never booed. We happen to have some respect for our neighbors just across the river from Joe Louis Arena, even if it is not reciprocated.

Celine Dion is from Montreal. Enough said.

But really: have you ever noticed how every Canadian music act reeks (Neil Young and The Band notwithstanding). Here's a partial list:

1) Celine Dion (Montreal)
2) Shania Twain (Timmons, Ont)
3) Rush (Toronto)
4) The Guess Who (Vancouver)
5) Red Rider/Tom Cochrane (Vancouver)
6) Alanis Morrissette (Toronto)
7) Avril Lavigne (Napanee, Ont): The new princess of Canadian awfulness
8) Sum 41
9) Nickleback (Calgary/Vancouver)
10) Gino Vanelli (Montreal)
11) Corey Hart (Montreal)
12) Bryan Adams
13) Bare Naked Ladies (aren't we precious, *yawn*)
14) Sara McLaughlin (so sleepy)
15) Joni Mitchell (ditto)
16) Alanah Miles
17) Loverboy
18) Triumph
19) Snow (the "Informer" caucasian raggae guy)
20) Bachman-Turner Overdrive

For exporting acts like these, Canada is truly a state sponsor of terrorism.

#47 mallory: Here is the article that I also posted at #37. [Link: espn.go.com...]

Thank God I'm a Leafs fan, though it will be interesting to see them this Saturday and what the fans reaction will be when they play Buffalo this weekend at home. I hope the fans don't embarrass me.

I hate the Habs and their stupid clown suit uniforms.

GO LEAFS GO!

Hey db, you bellowed?

I guess that you were wanting to hear my stand on ths issue. So here goes:

I am against the war and feel that just like all those who defend the actions of Bush passionately, I too have the right to my opinions. Now regarding booing the national anthem of the US, in Montreal. That is WRONG. Any National Anthem is the sworn patriotic symbol of the nation it represents and should be treated with respect, just like the flag.

Difference of opinions should not garner the kind of hate that leads to such extreme actions. I believe in peaceful protest, may it fall on deaf ears. At the present time I am not impressed or particularly passionate about the mindset of the US politicians, but defacing the flag and booing the national anthem is not the solution.

Puking on the sidewalks, that is another issue...ha!

#51

So sad, it just doesn't make sense. I suppose you could believe Lenny Wilkens that they were booing the Raptors, but why during the anthem? I don't get it at all.

Apparently a lot of Detroit fans didn't get it either, as a lot of callers on sports radio sounded off in condemnation of the display.

Like others here, I've heard stories of the national anthems of other countries being booed before or after sporting events here in the States. The fact that it was done here (US) doesn't justify it, and doing it there (Canada) simply proves that two wrongs don't make a right.

We have, for the most part, been good friends with Canada for a century. I'm disappointed to see the vitriol on both sides of the border with regard to this - the Canadians calling us barbarians and criminals, we calling the Canadians limp-dicks and weasels. Sometimes friends disagree, but that doesn't mean they're not friends. I can't lump Canada in with France.

As a Montréaler, I can tell you that anti-americanism is as prevalent among anglos as it is among francos. It's a simple case of envy. The U.S. is big and powerful and sometimes frightening. Hockey games, especially here, have always been a forum for nationalist sentiment. Yes, a good portion of the country is against the war, but a good portion is also in favour.

I really liked #10's post. But if you stir up trouble with the natives of northern Québec, we can always stir up trouble with the francos of northern Vermont, of whom there are quite a few. Besides, lake Champlain is really ours, as is Vermont. If the lake was meant to belong to New England, then why isn't it called Lake-Henry-the-8th or Lake-Elizabeth-the-1st? Answer me that eh! Another thing, it is a silly tautology to say the "green mountains" of Vermont. Vermont is french for Green mountains. Duh! Finally ,the capital Montpelier is actually pronounced mont-pee-lee-aay, and not mont-pee-lee-errr! If you're going to steal the territory, then couldn't you at least have the decency to pronounce the place-names properly......god dammit!

I think I,ll plant a Candaian flag on top of Jay peak, VER-MONT this weekend. That will be considered an act of war, will precipitate an invasion by the Marines,and will finally enable all of us up here to obtain green cards and move to New Mexico..... Oh!I wish!!

We Love Ya!!!;-)

Regarding post 11: we shouldn't ditch NAFTA. The cheapest labor is the best labor, lowering prices for everyone.

That somewhat aside, I quite like the way the New York Islanders competed in a foreign market.

In the past 18 months, in particular,I have been thoroughly disgusted not just by our Canadian Liberal govt, but by the ignorance displayed by a fair majority of the population up here. I have had more than a few heated discussions with friends, family members and co-workers whenever I try to defend not only W, but the US in general.

Thankfully, Stephen Harper, the Conservative Alliance (opposition) leader had an eloquent rebuke to Chretien and his gang of idiots in the house of commons yesterday. Check out today's National Post (not yet online) for the text of his speech.

As for the Canadiens fans, Quebec is a perverse society. They aren't just anti-American, their Provincial party is dedicated to separating from Canada (apparently we aren't quite socialist and pacifist enough for them yet). I'm sure McGill Jordan, who posts here often, can fill us in with first hand knowledge. I live in Ottawa, and my girlfriend is in Montreal. Whenever I visit, it reminds me of the New York City described in "Atlas Shrugged". Crumbling infrastructure, corporate head offices bailing out and every single aspect of life controlled by politicians and beaureaucrats.

Unfortunately, I can see a lot more ugly anthem-booing in the near future with the NHL playoffs fast approaching.

I am a Canadian who fully supports America in her fight against the terrorism that threatens both of our countries and indeed the whole world.

I am a Canadian that is both embarrassed by and ashamed of our prime minister, Jean Chretien.

I am a Canadian who recognizes the enormous benefits we derive from our close proximity to our American friends, neighbours and business partners.

I am a Canadian who has traveled extensively in the United States and knows that the Canadian caricature of the ‘moron’ American has no basis in fact.

I am a Canadian who admires the founding principles of the United States, that of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, as one of the most profound symbols of the Enlightenment, a promise made, that is and will be continually kept to the future.

I am a Canadian who has lost many ‘friends’ since 911. I am a Canadian who suffers such betrayal gladly so that I may say,

“Bless America in her pursuit her freedom, for a free United States is the best assurance of a free Canada and indeed a free world.”

#44- "...America, JR. " Thanks for the laugh.

#48- good point, Joel.

My perspective: NY fans had booed the Canadians, but had the Canadians been under attack from terrorists? Had the Canadians recently gone to war to make the world safe from terrorists and butcher despots?

I'm suppose to go to a business convention in Montreal this summer. We were going to make it a family vacation. Cancel my resevations!

#47;

I too heard about the Canadian anthem getting booed shortly after the friendlt fire incident. Apparently it had nothing to do with afghanistan, it was just team rivalry being expressed in a poor fashion.

everyone else;

Quebecois hockey fans regularly boo the Canadian national anthem, welcome to the club.

Canada's main exports to the U.S are motor vehicles and parts, industrial machinery, aircraft, telecommunications equipment; chemicals, plastics, fertilizers; wood pulp, timber, crude petroleum, natural gas, electricity and aluminum. A boycott of Canadian products won't be very effective.

#50

the horror! however we musn't forget Aldo Nova

all unpardonable crimes

Oh, and can I get my green card now?

New Hampshire, here I come!

Dear Canada and France:

The nations of the willing will share in the honor of fighting terrorism and making the world free. The rest will share the shame.

Leafs Fan,

I'm a life long Sabres Fan. Grew up along the Canadian border but don't live there anymore. Once a friend of mine and I were caught without transportation in a wicked snowstorm in the middle of the night and a St. Catherine's policeman picked us up and drove us through the blizzard to the bridge at Niagara Falls. Talk about above and beyond the call of duty. I remember when Canadians in Iran risked their lives to save some of our diplomatic staff when the Iranian Islamofascists took over during the Carter years. I was always grateful and remain so.

This latest round of crap from your Government and your fellow citizens sure is testing the strength of my fond memories, moreover, it is making me very suspicious that your Government's support for Iraq, tolerance of Islamic hatred for Jews and the USA (i.e. Concordia) and quiet encouragement of Islamic terrorism, renders our border with you no longer safe and secure. The Chretien government is unashamedly part of the Axis of Weasel, and just maybe a closet member of the Axis of Evil.

Although always a tradition in Buffalo that I enjoyed and applauded, perhaps it's time for the tradition of playing the Canadian National Anthem to end. Just play the US Anthem and avoid further controversy.

Go Sabres!

#61 Alex, I appreciate you trying to keep things in perspective.

But I'm still not going to Montreal this summer.

I'm sorry on behalf of my country. Brian Tobin chewed out the Liberals for idiotic anti-Americanism, so if he wants to run in the next election, he's got my vote.

Ah le Canada, what to do, eh?

That friendly fire incidento of yours was a close call, you almost destroyed our entire army, no? But lukly for you and your war mongergig darling of a president, Buush we still have another 12 highly trained canadian freedom fighters to clean up your terrorism problem.

Unlike you cowboys, us Canadians welcome the how do you say, Muslims, in with an open door and a clear conscience. You see, they go straight down to you, the great Satan. So hahahahha.

Well its off to liberal brainwashing and hockey games for me eh?

Wait...

whats that? Your boycotting my "I visited Canada" teeshirt business. Oh no, where have all the tourists gone. Ah great doier of good, won't you come back to ol Canado? Eh?

Correction, 13, the Quebecers have been doing this forever. The further West you go from Quebec, the more realistic we are... same to the East of Quebec.

Thanks Isles, from a through-and-through LEAFS fan... we don`t boo anyone`s anthem in Toronto.

re: 50 Vast Jewish Conspiracy
Hey, now, don't get overzealous! Rush and BTO both kick ass, and Shania's "Feel Like a Woman" is a great video. (OT: Shouldn't Melissa Etheridge have done that song?)

Besides, we can't throw stones (can you say Neil Sedaka?)

#11,

Free trade often costs jobs but in the long run it strengthens economies. It forces businesses to become more efficient.

It is one reason why America with 5 or 6% of the world's population produces 43% of the world's output.

Europe which has a great jobs saving program is dying economically.

This is a fucking disgrace. I am embarassed of the city I live in. Montreal had the largest anti-Bush protest in Canada, one of the largest in North America. I am going down to the America Consulate today for matters I have needed to attend to for awhile. It should be very interesting, as they had a protest there yesterday, complete with tired old flag burning and empty cliches. The hot bed of anti-americanism is Montreal, especially the Quebecois. Even better, since the war started, the american dollar has started to gain against the looney. Just makes it easier for me to exploit your cheap, albeit shitty, education.

To all of you Canadians who claim the minority is anti-american, NOW is the time to speak up, NOW you tell you MP or MNA how you feel, NOW is the time to sing along with the america national anthem at the game, NOW is the time you tell the anti-americans the turth, NOW is the time for action.

Proud to be an american in canada, especially enemy territory.

Jordan.

50 - VJC,

Correction - the Guess Who is from Winnipeg, Manitoba, not Vancouver. Burton Cummings has always had one of the best voices in the industry.

46 - Rational,

Come see a game at the Joe in Detroit. Then make your assessment. For example, the Wings have had a hate-hate relationship with the Colorado Avalanche for years, and when the Wings go there, the fans chant "Detroit Sucks"; however, we Detroit fans don't chant "Colorado Sucks" when they're here. Maybe it's because we have more class than you give us credit for. Also, most players will say that it's one of the best cities to play in - and not just because it's a premier team. Because of the fans.

Solomon X - fellow Detroiter? What part? I grew up on the northeast side - 7 mile and Gratiot - live in Chesterfield now.

Go Wings for the repeat!!

TV

Oh yeah, check out this link about the game from TSN the canadian version of ESPN. Not a goddamn word about the anthem. Of course, a shitstorm breaks out here when we Americans boo theirs. Silence is approval, people. Oh yeah, Americans, don't sink to the level of Canadians in this matter, respect the canadian anthem.

Jordan

I'm Canadian and in Montreal, and I well past the 'shame' stage. My fiancee restrained me from picking up a fight in the subway with some idiot protesters the other day.

A lot of the French-Canadian culture is similar to the Arabic one (probably because of the large influence religion had here in the past). Quebeceers used to be told that "you are born for a small bread" (i.e., don't expect too much of life). "You are poor because of the Anglos" -- or maybe because the church didn't want their precious flock to go into business and maybe start thinking on their own.

And now, thanks to the war and insecurity, the crooks of the Parti Quebecois stand a good chance of returning to power. They have already stated they will seek to increase the size of the government.

My fiancee and I have started considering a house in Vermont.

Well said Millie Woods (#22).

#56

Why do folks in other countries think of America as "frightening"? (I know, I know...it's kinda like asking, "Why do they hate us?")

This might seem like a prima facie naive question. It isn't; I'm just curious.

As an American, it might be a bit difficult for me to be fully objective; nonetheless, I just don't see how we can be considered "frightening." Powerful? Yes. Opinionated? You bet. Stubborn? More often than not. (Our Constitution--that blessed document which we treasure dearly--sometimes thwarts international treaties and agreements, making us appear to be stubborn, and I won't apologize for this.) But frightening? Nope...I just don't see it.

I'd say we have a pretty good record of holding our tongues and fists, compared to many other nations; in fact, I would be quite worried if any number of other countries whose leaders apparently have no conscience had our power.

And that's the key. That's why I think America isn't frightening--we have a conscience.

Any and all opinions welcome.

V-Man (75),

You may want to re-consider Vermont. It's not much different than Quebec:

1. Home of Ben & Jerry's - the Socialistic Ice Cream vendors.

2. Home of the only avowed Socialist congressman in the US.

You're better off in New Hampshire.

TV

Rofe, #42, Your stats are wrong. Of the Islanders players on the 20 man roster, both goalies are US born (DiPietro, Snow), of the 7 defensemen, 2 are Cdn (Audoin, Cairns) the rest are Swedes and Czechs (Jonsson, Hamrlik, Martinek, Timander, Niinima), and of the 11 forwards, 3 are US (Blake, Bates, Parrish) and 5 are Cdn, with the rest Russian or Swedish. Unless it's a metric system thing, that makes the team 25% US, 25% Cdn, and 50% foreign. The Coach and GM are both from Massachuesetts, the Owners are from China and Sri Lanka. 100% of the players earn their living due to the support of hard-working New Yorkers, kinda makes em a pretty representative team for the New York area, n'est-ce pas?

To be more precise, the owners are proud NY'ers and US citizens who came to the US as penniless immigrants from Asia and worked their way up to become billionaires. That kinda shit happens all over the world, right?

#73 Tony V

A hale & hearty "me too" re: Burton Cummings. Plus, the Guess Who always had one of the best horn sections (Chicago & Tower of Power are the other two standouts in that regard).

I've been looking at a map of canada and the Great Slave Lake looks like a great place to put in a Sister facility to Gitmo. Annexing the northwest territories shouldn't be too difficult. If Canada objects, they can take it to the UN and by the time it gets hashed out the only use we would have for it is to get a global warming offset.

V-man - forget the house in Vermont. When my husband and I lived in Montreal (we left Quebec five years ago) we had a house in the Champlain Islands to get away from the Quebec craziness. But over the twenty years we were there we saw Vermont go from a can-do, Ethan Allan and his green mountain boys place to the usual welfare state basket case. Think Ben & Jerry - think Howard Dean. Go the Mark Steyn route, V-man, go to New Hampshire!
McGill Jordan, Hey, some of my best friends (pause to genuflect to a cliche) to say nothing of all of my family are Canadian. Don't diss us all.
As for Celine Dion when her (Is he really older than her grandfather?) hubby saw she might be going the way of the Dixie Chicks with her anti-English diatribes, he gagged her and she's had dollar signs instead of separatist stars in her eyes ever since.

Montreal is in Quebec. Quebec is not part of my Canada.

I have never heard the Canadian national anthem booed in the U.S. However, I lived in Toronto for 15 years and heard Canadians boo their own anthem every time the second half of it was sung in French. They also boo the U.S. anthem every time.

Don't confuse French Canadians with real Canadians. Quebecers are every bit as obnoxious as frenchmen from France. They constantly bite the hand that feeds them and in no way represent the vast majority of Canadians.
That being said, there is a world wide trend towards anti-Americanism. The fact is that we are living in the age of the American empire. When the Romans ruled, everyone hated them. When Napoleon was kicking butt, everyone hated France. When Britain ruled the seas, everyone hated them too. Its just human nature to resent your powerful and rich neighbours.
Canada is falsely represented by a ruling class of politicians and media who want us to be a multicultural basket case. If you dropped into any pub or restaurant (outside of Quebec) real Canadians would tell you they are pro-war and ashamed that we are on the sidelines.

#77

This might seem like a prima facie naive response, but here goes:

I think it all boils down to simple envy & jealousy. Everyone likes to see the top dog knocked down a peg. Forgive the sports analogy, but I've read that Phil Jackson is roundly despised by the NBA coaching fraternity. They feel that is record of success over an extended period has made him insufferably arrogant.

America has risen to unparraleled heights in less than 250 years. We've never really had to deal with famine or invasions or repressive despots. We don't share some of the more unfortunate historical bitch-slaps suffered by just about every other nation on earth. As a result, we are by nature an exceedingly optimistic people; and I think too many mistake our optimism for arrogance.

Gymnast, right on. One of what my doting kiddies call Millie's loony theories was that Canada could sort out its deficits by renting out the Northwest Territories to assorted governments so that they could airlift in their miscreants and let them sort out life on their own in the Great White North. It would both make money and save money. Win win all round. Keeping assorted miscreants in Gitmo probably costs a lot more than incarceration in igloos - and think of the money saved on refrigeration!

Millie - I never claimed all Canadians were bad people or morally bankrupt. Most are fine, but they are not the vocal ones, which causes a distorted perception of canada. Most of my friends are canadian (ah, yes, such a liberal cliche). I just wish there were more like you. I was going to try for permanent residency here after I graduate, but the hell with that. I can go back to America and make more money and not pay into some bullshit socialist system that will be busted in 15 years.

Jordan

#50 - Dude, RUSH rules! Suggest you re-listen to "La Villa Strangiato" from Hemispheres, and "Leave That Thing Alone" from Counterparts.

Now Triumph, on the other hand - they totally suck!!

Last June, when over a million people came downtown to celebrate the Stanley Cup with the Red Wings, when Chelios and Hull were introduced to the crowd, one of them mentioned that they were the only "Americans" on the team. When Yzerman took the mic he pointed out that he was an American citizen as was Shanahan (who had just become naturalized)and Robitaille and eventually about 8 or 9 of the Wings pointed out that they had US citizenship. Surprisingly, Larianov still holds Canadian citizenship, in part, I believe, out of gratitude to the fact that they granted him asylum when he defected.

BTW, the Colorado fans picked up Detroit Sucks from Chicago. Crowds at the United Center chant it lustily when Detroit is in town, and they've been doing it since the Blackhawks played the Wings at the Chicago Stadium.

Players who have played for both teams say that it's an honor to play for the Canadians but Detroit is a better town for the players because of how hypercritical the Habs fans can be.

Ronnie (91),

Are you from the Detroit area as well?

TV

#77 Joel Terry

Perhaps frightened isn't the best word. Perhaps intimidated is. When you are the 5'6", 120 lbs. Chess Club captain in high school, you are usually intimidated by the sight and actions of the 6'4", 250 lbs football players who are powerful, opinionated and stubborn. It isn't so much that you fear what they will do to you, it is the knowledge of what they could do to you if they wanted to.........even though they never have. When you are the hulking football player, you can't understand why some little weenie would be afraid of a nice guy like you. When you are the little weenie, you have to consider the possibilities.

It is kind of ironic that we the powerful nation feared the possibility of the weenie nation hurting us and decided that we had to do something about it. There are those big jocks in life that are afraid some little geek will make them look bad, so they pick on the weenies to keep them in their place. That is why the geek nations fear us.

Since we are the big nation, it is hard for us to see the smaller, weaker nation's perspective. The war in Iraq is evidence to these other nations that we can push our weight around anytime we want without regard to them.

Now, before anyone accuses me of being anti-war, I'm not! I fully support what we are doing in Iraq. I just try to see and understand what the other guy thinks.

Apologies from another Canadian for the behaviour in Montreal. This sentiment has been under the surface here for a long time. Our PM and his tolerance of anti-American comments from his caucus seems to have given all these yahoos the go-ahead. Hopefully there are enough of us who detest this Liberal government and who appreciate the US as a great friend and ally to get this party defeated in the next election. They have done a very poor job in governing us, not just on this issue. Watch carefully because if they are re-elected you will definitely know where the majority of Canadians stand.
To #67 surlybird I hope you reconsider voting liberal under any circumstances. Tobin was part of the Chretien clique for many years. I won't forgive any of them for what they have done to Canada.

was never ashamed to be canadian until 9/11 ... and ever since. parts of canada are as different as san fran, nyc, texas, the midwest, the rockies region and the deep south are from each other. the people of quebec love american stuff and hate US foreign policy - just like your average 3rd world country. they were against fighting ww1 and ww2. and they would boo the canadian anthem every time if it wasn't sung (at least) half in french.
southern ontario (toronto et al) and vancouver are full of anti-american lefties. the rest of the west, particularly Alberta, have their heads on straight. the maritime provinces (east) and the territories (north) aren't populated enough to be statistically significant - no insult intended.

I am Canadian.

Sorry, didn’t mean to steal words from a local beer commercial to open my statement, but I do want my love for this country to be known. This is a great country which has a tremendous energy from the wonderful people that it inhabit it. I have seen, lived and truly tasted the US too since I lived there for 13 years and have now decided to call Canada my home. I consider myself a North American in nature and spirit, but my heart is set in Canada.

I constantly hear Americans boast about “where would Canada be if it were not for the US?”…..well it would be right where it is. That’s true. Everybody harps about how deeply the Canadian economy is linked to the US. That is true….but what anyone fails to realize is that the US too needs Canada, in a BIG way. The United States has a closer relationship with Canada than with any other nation -- economically, diplomatically, and strategically.

The US needs Canada as a strong purchaser of its consumer goods. Just last year, Free Trade agreement for 40 key areas of trade between Canada and the US was signed (as per the US Trade Gov. Website). Both the US and Canada WILL benefit from this. The US is no position to say that it can avoid trade with Canada, and everything will go on as normal.

Contrary to American sentiment, Canada did not get where it is because of the "benevolence" of the US. It got where it is today, because of the will and hard work of its people. Mexico too has the “privilege” of sharing a border and Free Trade policy with the US yet it isn’t prospering the way Canada is? That is because there are factories, lumber, wheat, pesticides, raw materials, oil and industry that Canada possesses that Americans depend upon.

We may not have marketable commodities that Americans can easily identify on the shelves at the local “Piggly Wiggly”, but offer goods that are inherent to the American way of life. Now since the last two years, America is depending heavily upon Canada as its base for setting up Call centers and customer service centers. These are being set up by most major US companies across the country and are great income generators for the US.

Americans are quick to point out Canadians who are tired of the local politics and hence despise Canada. Almost all posters on this site have been one time or the others been frustrated by their President, Senator or Mayor. I hear Bush lovers bash Clinton and what he did to the US economy and vica-versa. Every nation has its political peaks and valleys. Canada too will survive this roller coaster ride.

To goggle eyed Canadians so eager to drop the maple leaf and grab the American “green card”, I say that the US too has its shares of bad politics, failing economy (although Canada has been out performing the US by leaps and bounds for the last 2 years), crime, guns, failing healthcare/HMO system, bad hockey players and Rush Limbaugh. At the moment, the US is suffering from tunnel vision and bad politics. Its foreign policies at the moment are too insular and its mindset too narrow. However, this too will pass.

Anyway, I love Canada and am proud to say that I am Canadian.

As a good Toronto Maple Leafs fan, I am always happy to see the Montreal Canadiens getting their asses kicked. Never more so than the other night.

To goggle eyed Canadians so eager to drop the maple leaf and grab the American “green card”, I say that the US too has its shares of bad politics, failing economy (although Canada has been out performing the US by leaps and bounds for the last 2 years), crime, guns, failing healthcare/HMO system, bad hockey players and Rush Limbaugh. At the moment, the US is suffering from tunnel vision and bad politics. Its foreign policies at the moment are too insular and its mindset too narrow. However, this too will pass.

Failing Healthcare system? Excuse me? There are plenty of Canadians on waiting lists because they need an operation. Doesn't happen here.

Link to Waiting List Info Across Canada

I'll stick to the short answers to your screed.

Bad hockey players
You guys were lucky to beat us in the 2002 Olympics. Questionable refereeing by Euros and Canadians. We did beat you guys in the world cup a few years ago. Ever hear of Chris Chelios? Joe Mullen? Jeremy Roenick? Bad hockey players my a**.

Crime / Guns
We have crime because outlaws can get guns and law abiding citizens cannot. The strictest gun laws in the US are in major cities, where the crime is the highest. Explain that one.

Rush Limbaugh
Ahhh, the indignant Rush Limbaugh smear. As if you liberals didn't own the rest of the media anyway, for Pete's sake look at the CBC. Can you get any more left wing (other than International ANSWER)?

Nice try, NOB. Crime is dropping here in the US, and going up in Canada. It's because you use the European way of dealing with these issues - ignore them until they swing up and bite you in the a**.

TV

"...........I say that the US too has its shares of bad politics"

I said that the US "too" has these problems.........meaning that Canada is already suffering from these to begin with. Understand English?

From my small but strong redoubt of conservatism up here in Montreal, I have to say that I'm not the least bit surprised at the booing of the American anthem. The average Canadian, especially those of French extraction, are pathetically anti-American. Pathetic because their feelings are based not on reality, but on a combination of ignorance and envy. We have become a nation of do-nothing moral relativists who have nothing to contribute to the world. I would like to apologize for their revolting lack of manners and to say that I too despise these people, my fellow so-called countrymen. Although all Canadians do not feel this way, unfortunately I would estimate about 80% do. The sad thing is that when you try to have a discussion regarding their views on the US, they can't get past the hollow slogans of the left and I'm endlessly amazed at the sheer stupidity and vapidity of their views.
So, my Americans friends, do not take heed or umbrage to the actions of the morally challenged and the ignorant, because you do stand on the side justice and truth.
As an aside, I hope the US makes Canada pay economically for our cowardice and treachery, even though I too would be affected.

First, let me say that I am a Torontonian that supports this war as well as any effort to rid the world of Islamic fundumentalists.

But if the US ever shut down the border as a punishment, you would be isolating myself and many other Canadian freedom lovers that support and go out of their way to defend the US...so exercising collective punishment in that way would be counter productive.

Also, do you know how silly you sound when you threaten to shut down the border. We sell more oil to the US than Saudi Arabia...15 of 19 Sept 11 highjackers that slammed into the World trade center and Pentagon were Saudi's...yet Bush invites their leaders to his ranch and continues to buy his oil.

Yet for booing at a hockey game in Quebec, you suggest a border closure. Get the fuck over yourselves!

As for jealousy...Canadians are almost as wealthy per person as US citizens, so we are not jealous.

I may be ashamed of my Prime minister at the moment, and I believe that many Canadians on the left a naive at best...but mostly just stupid. But, I believe in what Canada is all about.

Democratic...healthcare for all, native representation, peacekeeping, foreign aid.

Slavery was abolished here 30 years before it was in the US...so this was a safe haven for Black American's who believed in the dream of Freedom from the 1830's to 1860's. This was a safehaven for people fleeing the draft in Vietnam. Canada does not lie to its population about pot...saying that money to buy pot goes directly to terrorists. How stupid is that?

I say again...I love and support the US, but aim your insults at the people here that are truely against you...i.e. Concordia protester types...but think twice before taking aim at the whole country.

This is really too bad. On behalf of all Canadians I'd like to add my apologies for these Pepsis. You guys are right - Chretien has to go, if he runs for election again I'm joining a separatist movement....it might really happened too if the West gets really upset. One more Kyoto thingie...

I once read that the difference between Canadian attitudes towards Britain and the US is that Canadians like Britain but dislike most Brits, while they dislike the US while liking most Americans. I think our feelings toward the US are complicated and have already been discussed at length ... however, most of us acknowledge and appreciate our very special relationship between the US and Canada, and would not see it threatened for any reason.

I hope our American friends can distinguish between the yahoos and morons, and the majority of Canadians who either agree with US policy, or respectfully disagree with the US position while still retaining enormous respect and good will towards the US.

And while I appreciate everything the US has done for Canada and the world, while I acknowledge what a great country it is, and while I am aware of the many warts we have here in Canada ... this is still my country, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I hope my Americans friends, who are so proud in expressing their love of country, can appreciate and respect that.

As a Montrealer, I say the booing was a disgrace, a bunch of ungrateful spoiled brats unaware that we get to keep our noses clean only thanks to the U.S. doing our dirty work for us.

However, anti-Canadianism isn't any better than anti-Americanism. Can we get over this blanket hatred and recognize that both populations - Canadian and American - are split down the middle about this war in Iraq? And that blanket comments about how bad Canada is get us nowhere?

One more point to add. I've been reading this Weblog for quite a while...I seem to recall that after Sept. 11, Charles put aside any reservations he had about George Bush to fully support his country. To critisize Bush even a little would just be 'troll food'

I feel the same way about Canada in some regards...it has enough critisizm from the US without me adding to it. So I will defend it every chance I get.

Chretien I will not defend however...he is on his own...but Canada I will back up any day!

northoftheborder #96
"Now since the last two years, America is depending heavily upon Canada as its base for setting up Call centers and customer service centers. These are being set up by most major US companies across the country and are great income generators for the US."

This is a good thing? Those calls are annoying as hell!

I’m Canadian living in the US. Never in my life have I been as ashamed to have Canadian citizenship. I thought Herb Dahliwal’s spiel was bad enough, but this takes the cake and Canadians keep putting themselves to new lows with each successive act.

Look, nobody is saying that the US and Canada have to agree on everything and that Canada must follow the US line, BUT disagree in a respectful manor! Chretien, the bastard Liberal Party and, by the looks of things, a lot of Canadians are acting disrespectfully and that is what’s causing the fuss and has made me very angry.

I can’t say that the sentiment expressed by those idiotic fans in Montreal is just limited to them. Anti-Americanism in Canada has historic roots and is mostly based on a feeling of inadequacy. It’s been said that Canada has little to no way of defining itself, so it goes out of its way to define what it is not.

It’s a shame because Montreal, where my father’s from, is a great city and can be a lot of fun. American tourists are Montreal’s meal ticket and this poor attitude will only hurt them in the end. Sadly, this attitude is not limited to Montreal, but is quite pervasive across the country. I visit Toronto every few months as well and I encounter these feelings all the time up there. Even in a “conservative” city like Edmonton, where I grew up, these types of emotions run high.

Canada’s problem is that it’s an English country being run and ruined by the French. It’s been that way for years, but has really exacerbated the last five. So long as these morons keep running the country, the more it will remain the same.

But there is hope. Please visit the following website:

[Link: www.members.shaw.ca...]

There are still Canadians who care about the special relationship among neighbors and they are willing to speak up. Perhaps there is some hope. Please visit and support Jay’s site. There are still some sane people up there!

Tony V:

Born and raised in the only major American city that sits due north of Canada.

I think what Americans don't like about Canada is the palpable sense of moral superiority some Canadians like to assert.

FWIW, I can think of a bunch of notable people born in Canada who have chosen to make their lives and livings in the United States. How many notable Canadians are former Americans?

Be aware that even some of us who live in Montreal fully support the American troops. It's just those of us that support the war in the province of Quebec tend to be Anglophones (English-speakers). The "poutine-eating separation monkeys", domestic cousin of the "cheese-eating surrender monkeys", oppose this war the exact same way they opposed conscription to fight the Nazis...

I'm glad the Canadiens lost.

#96
To goggle eyed Canadians so eager to drop the maple leaf and grab the American “green card”, I say that the US too has its shares of bad politics, failing economy (although Canada has been out performing the US by leaps and bounds for the last 2 years), crime, guns, failing healthcare/HMO system, bad hockey players and Rush Limbaugh. At the moment, the US is suffering from tunnel vision and bad politics. Its foreign policies at the moment are too insular and its mindset too narrow. However, this too will pass.

You sound like a typical Liberal mouthpiece. The Canadian economy is not outperforming the US counterpart by “leaps and bounds” as you say. The growth rate has only really been a few tenths of a percentage point higher. Nothing to run home and boast about. I’m an economist and most of the statistics the Government props up are smoke and mirrors. The Canadian economy is only doing well in Alberta (because of oil) and Montreal (because they are way behind the rest of the country and need to catch up).

As for the healthcare system, if the Canadian healthcare system is so good, why is it ranked 30th by the WHO? And when polled, why is healthcare the main source of concern among most Canadians today? The Canadian healthcare system is a mess in most provinces and if everything was so hunky dory then Chretien wouldn’t have made it the centerpiece of his latest budget. Don’t be a fool.

Crime? Aside from murder rates (and that is mostly explained by the racial demographics), crime rates in other categories are pretty much identical.

Everything else you say is in typically arrogant Liberal/NDP fashion. You, my friend, are the one suffering from tunnel vision. But I don’t think that’ll pass…

I agree with you about the hockey players though.

#98
Crime / Guns
We have crime because outlaws can get guns and law abiding citizens cannot. The strictest gun laws in the US are in major cities, where the crime is the highest. Explain that one.

Tony, New York City has the strictest gun laws in the country and by far the lowest murder rate. In fact, it has a murder rate lower than many Canadian cities. Now, I'm not saying that the gun laws here are solely responsible for this statistic, but your assertion above is incorrect, especially when cities like Dallas and Houston with lax gun laws have much higher crime rates than New York, Los Angeles and San Diego.

FWIW, I can think of a bunch of notable people born in Canada who have chosen to make their lives and livings in the United States. How many notable Canadians are former Americans?

Well, there's Ernie Coombs a.k.a. Mr. Dressup (who, sadly, suffered a stroke on, believe it or not, September 11th, 2001, and died a week later) who was born in Maine but traveled up to Toronto in the 1960s along with Mr. Rogers to do a kids show on the CBC (Mr. Rogers moved back to the States a year later) and didn't get his Canadian citizenship until 1996, but I admit it's a short list.

BTW northoftheborder, I'm a Canadian and I adore listening to Rush Limbaugh on-line, as I'm doing right now.

#113

FWIW, I can think of a bunch of notable people born in Canada who have chosen to make their lives and livings in the United States. How many notable Canadians are former Americans?

Sherry Cooper is the chief economist with BMO Nesbitt Burns. She is from the US, but lives in Toronto and has Canadian citizenship.

Joe Carter, former Blue Jays star, is from the US and has chosen to stay in Toronto. I think he has Canadian citizenship as well.

Air Canada CEO Robert (uncle Miltie) Milton is from the US and he lives in Montreal and has Canadian citizenship. I don't don't blame him for Air Canada's woes, however.

Vince Carter chose to stay with the Raptors when he could have gone elsewhere. I think he even lives in Toronto in the offseason and he moved his mother there from Florida. Don't know if he has citizenship, however.

The sad thing is, especially with Cooper and Milton, that many Canadians often accuse them of having "dual loyalties" and blame the fact -- especially Milton -- that they are American for the woes of the companies they work for.

#113 I think Robert Milton is from Hong Kong.

segacs

The populations of Canada and the USA are split down the middle on this war? You've been watching and reading too much mainstream USA media. It's running about 4-1 in favor of the war here and the only ones that don't get it are the Democrats, Hollywood and other scattered Stalinists around the County.

Time for Canada to shed its feelings of insecurity. Tossing Chretien from office would be a good first step.

Mordecai Richler, a Canadian author who is from Montreal, has written in his book "Woe Canada" not only how anti American the French Canadians are but anti Semitic as well.

Not that I care to defend the land of ice and socialism, but me and several dozens were marching in a pro-America rally outside the US consulate in Toronto, opposite the 5000 terror-apologists, communists, antisemites, and other misc. anti-west groups.

So remember that there are some, albeit a small and oppressed minority, living in Canada who believe in life, liberty, and property.

The same thing happened on Wednesday when the New Jersey Devils played the Canadians.

My brother was watching an interview with one of the Devils after the game named John Madden. He's a Canadian who said that he was sickened by what he heard.

I get the feeling that this is a more French Canadian phenomenon more than anything else.

I would have jumped into this much earlier but I was too busy setting up this site for the vast numbers of Canadians who are Friends of America

Canadian Friends of America

It is modeled on Norwegian Friends of America...I am waiting to see a French Friends of America site but that may be a long wait.

This entire debate seems silly.

Canada and the United States are not going anywhere. Economic, social, political, and environmental ties are here to stay, like it or not.

If hockey fans in Quebec makes you hold a low judgement of Canadians in general, than it is clear you are simply looking for a reason to feel disgusted.

Canadians and Americans will always get along. To the Canadians on the board, who want to grab a green card and head to the states, you are free to. That's your choice. I'm not sure if your reason for leaving has to do with the political majority (US conservatives vs. Canadian Liberals) but if that would make you feel more at home, then go right ahead.

I, as a Canadian, do not let other Canadians speak for me. I don't let anyone, period, speak for me. If you are a Canadian, and are sick of the title, enough to leave, then you must not have much of a sense of self. If you are an American, so determined to be upset at Canada because of a opposing political perspective that some on the country have, go right ahead. Both views are simplistic to the point of being idiotic.

This 'problem' with Canada is simply the result of two different countries, side by side. Call it jealousy, or supposed moral superiority, or ignorance, but it's the same all across the world with every nation that lives next to another. Competition, anger, benefits, cooperation.

Booing an anthem is disrespectful. Viewing geopolitics in such simple terms is as well. American/Canadian relations deserve more rational thought.

#120 Woland

Well said.

Boo a national anthem? Thats the favourite past time in England. We wouldn't offend our Yankee cousins, cos the tune was written by a Brit, and it would be hard to boo the Can anthem as nobody here has heard it.
Is it " I'm a lumberjack, I'm OK"?

Never heard the Canadian anthem? You poor thing, it is the most musically and lyrically charming national song in the world.

For what it's worth, I just heard an interview with a N.Y. Islanders player who commented their "fans" did the same thing to the Canadian anthem last year in game 3 of the playoffs.

#116

Mordecai Richler himself is a racist scumbag and an old fool.

#123 Priscilla

Never heard the Canadian anthem? You poor thing, it is the most musically and lyrically charming national song in the world.

Wrong.

Sorry.

Well, not really. :-)

This one would have been better, too...

To all Canadian posters on this webpage and Steyn readerrs, I have one thing to say: Leave Canada and become US citizens. (Or at least get US Citizenship and stay at home). We want you! F*** The French speaking Euroboob wannabes in the North!

#127

Comments like yours are just too lame.

I wasn't aware US citizenship was some sort of magic ticket to political and social enlightenment. I'd be willing to bet an 'angry federalist' would find many with said magic ticket have similar ideals to the "Euroboob wannabes in the North".

Plus the fact that your generalizations regarding Canadians include people like those on this board, who have expressed their personal solidarity with the US (I'm assuming you are an American).

Which, of course, makes you look like an ass.

No pointless generalizations there.

#128

Look who's talking about pointless generalizations:

from #120: If you are a Canadian, and are sick of the title, enough to leave, then you must not have much of a sense of self.

So, all Canadians who want to leave have no self worth? That's a pretty poor statement to make...

129

Almost. Not really.

A Canadian person, who is upset enough with the political state of the country to want to leave for that reason, must hold any country's political majority in pretty high regard. Enough to want to escape from it.

And, while the posters who I'm basing that statement on are probably tossing hyperbole for the sake of the board, I'm having fun with it nonetheless.

So pointless? Not to me.

And perhaps it is a generalization. However, I think you'd agree it's of a categorically different nature than "Euroboob wannabes in the North". One is an simple, childish insult. One, in context, is a challenge.

(And pulling the 'hypocritical' card is one of the simplest means to demean an argument. Because, in some respect, nearly every one contains a hypocritical element.)

A Canadian person, who is upset enough with the political state of the country to want to leave for that reason, must hold any country's political majority in pretty high regard. Enough to want to escape from it.

Let's say they hate the cold weather? Are they worthless too? ;)

I am a dual citizen, proud of having heritage in both nations. I live in Canada, but over half of my family in from New England and I have no shame of being 50% American. However, I cannot believe some of the crap that I am reading on here. It was extremely disrespectful and without class to boo the US national anthem, yes. I do not defend any of that, because it is childish. I am also on the fence apropos this war, because I can see and understand both sides quite well and I am still trying to keep educated, open-minded, and well-informed as the crisis goes on.
But I think some of you are blowing this little booing incident WAY out of proportion. We are talking one hockey match, one small group of people who were probably rowdy and drinking to begin with. Canada and the U.S. are allies, period. We have the longest peaceful border in the world, we share an immense amount of trade, and we have a great deal in common. We, or the majority of us who are sensible, are very aware and appreciative of how important that mutual relationship is. However, we also have this little concept called "freedom of speech" in our country as well. As a sovereign nation, we have the right to have our own foreign policy and to choose the path that we take in international affairs. This should be respected, just as we respec the right of the US government to make its decisions. Our government is not simply going to nod and smile at every single U.S. policy or decision (although they usually do). Neither Canada not the U.S.A. (gasp!) is infallible and perfect!!!
When this war ends, in all likelihood our small, underfunded but well-trained forces will be out there helping to rebuild Iraq alongside American forces: our military is a peacekeeping force. You don't need us for this action anyway, let's face it. What I deeply resent are the few, but horribly obnoxious, ignorant zealots who have run off their mouths on here, attacking an entire country with little or no thought, because of a small incident hardly worth caring about. It is bigotry and, lets call it what it is, deep stupidity. People opposed to this war, whether you agree with them or not, have every right to believe the way that they do because those are the rights and freedoms we cherish so much. I had hoped to find much more intelligent arguments on here, but I was mistaken. I'll probably get flamed immensely for speaking my mind here, but someone had to address this.

I think your comments came from the right place, Erin.

People who verbally attack an entire country, be it France, America, Canada, or any other nation are just being anti-intellectual and lazy. I'm sure they realize that, and name-calling does feel comforting, but it is certainly not productive or reasonable. I would say it adds fuel to a fire, but fire is useful. I need a new metaphor.

And 131: I have no idea what that post meant. You think people who leave Canada are worthless? Cause I don't recall labeling anyone as worthless. (I did call that one guy an ass...but can you blame me?) And then you winked at me. Mixed signals all around.

Erin,

Wake up. Look what is going on in Montreal at Concordia. Listen to Chretien and his Government. They are terrorist sympathisers at best.

I personally resent our border with your Country being so freely used to export that terrorism to my nation.

Two sides to this issue? You are trying to keep an open mind? My ass. Get a mind.

#132

This is not just about booing an anthem in a sports arena. It’s about politicians publicly running their mouths saying how a whole other nation is comprised of ingrates. I don’t think anyone gives a damn about some drunken losers in a sports game; they’re concerned about the underlying causes of such behavior, especially from such a close ally.

If you’re Canadian as you claim you are and you deny that there isn’t mass anti-Americanism in Canada (and it did exist before Iraq or Bush ever became issues), then you are either blind or really stupid. America-bashing is Canada’s national pastime. Hell, even I was guilty of it on occasion when I was still living there. But I grew out of it and opened my eyes. Some people, especially in the public eye who should know better, have not matured past that level.

I don’t want to hear another irrational diatribe from Svend about Bush being a “war criminal” when he mentions nothing about Blair who is just as “guilty”, France doing the same thing in Africa or China suffocating its own citizens. I don’t want to hear another insulting comment from Carolyn Parrish about a nation’s citizens. I don’t want to hear another inane jibe from Herb Dhaliwal about a national leader.

Yes, people are more than welcome to have their opinions and express them, but those are public figures and they should know better. They are representatives of an entire nation and they should have the decency to present themselves with class, not crass. Trent Lott went through hell with his comments a few months ago and he was held accountable for them. His comments were far more ambiguous and less insulting than anything uttered from our “esteemed” and “tolerant” Canadian politicians. Yet Svend, Carolyn and Herb aren’t going through a fraction of the censure that Lott went through. It’s as though they’re being encouraged for such remarks.

But “So long as it’s against the Americans, it’s OK.”

So, yes, Canada is a sovereign nation and has absolutely every right to choose its path. I personally disagree with Chretien’s decision, mostly for personal reasons, but I won’t hold Canada accountable for it. Still, each decision is wrought with consequences and Canada might face them. Whatever they are, if any, I don’t know. I don’t advocate that trade or other relations be affected, but I don’t think Canada should have any part in the reconstruction of Iraq. They chose to stay out and oppose so they have no right or say in what happens next.

As for the myth of a “peacekeeping” force, don’t be so naive. No military is meant for peacekeeping. Guns, tanks, warplanes and the like are meant for killing people. Canada processes those, does it not? And don’t forget that Canada has played a combative role in many of the most recent conflicts. Afghanistan is the first that comes to my mind. For which I proudly say that Canadian troops acted with valor, courage and conviction. So, peacekeeping my ass.

#133 It was meant as a joke, but I’m not surprised that you didn’t get it.

Here we go...

135: Calling something a joke, and have it making a shred of sense, are (apparently) two different things. I'm not at all surprised I didn't get it either. Let's agree on that and move on.

I agree with you again with your comments on politicians labelling an entire country in any manner. I'm not completely familiar with the people who you're specifically referring to, but I'm familiar with most and I've heard one or two cases of backbenchers running off, and that's just lame. Reminds me of Pat Buchanon's (sp?) stupid comments, but I don't think anyone takes him seriously anyway.

I disagree with this idea of Anti-Americanism, however. I agree that there are some who harbour deep resentment towards the US.

However, I suspect it has more to do with the fact that we consider the US and Canada are two distinct countries, who are friendly enough and have a strong enough history of cooperation to call one another shitheads occassionally. Yes, I know that sounds vague, but I believe it to be true. Socially, economically, politically, environmentally every once in a while an issue arises and the crap gets tossed back and forth. Canadian politicians do it, American politicians do it, but these people are smaller and less significant than the history that binds us. Every once in a while fishermen get upset, farmers get upset, exporters get upset, and so on. Can we expect any less?

And I'm not sure Lott is the best argument. He was, overall, making a racist comment. A heated political debate, and the dumb words that arise from them, are less damaging. But I suppose that is just a matter of opinion, I can't really support that with evidence.

And finally, I'm not sure why you're so anti-peacekeeping. Yes, there are military vehicles involved. Yes, Canada also fights on occasion. But we do also have an international reputation as a mainstay on the peacekeeping front.

134: The American border is protected by American border guards. Canada doesn't keep people in. Both countries keep people out. And there are very few actual incidents revolving around terrorists entering the US from Canada. It has happened, but most terrorists enter through the US itself. The border issue is more smoke than fire.

And 'terrorist sypathizers' is just lame yet again, nice try.

(Jesus, these boards eat time)

re: 126 and 123
Actually, you're both wrong. The best anthem, sentiment, words, and music, is the La Marseillaise.

Forward, children of our country!
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us comes tyranny!
They've raised the bloody standard,
the bloody standard is raised!
Can you hear across the countryside
the howls of the vicious soldiers?
They come to our land
to kill our sons
to kill our country!

To arms, citizens!
Form your battallions!
We march! We march!
The blood of evil
will soak the fields!

I interpreted it a bit but it still loses a lot in the translation. The irony is almost enough to make me cry. The CESMs don't deserve this song.

As a Montrealer, I'm going to keep this very short, and very sweet: I'm terribly, terribly sorry. I am profoundly ashamed that this revolting behaviour was displayed.

A lot of us truly appreciate the US and what it's doing to promote freedom around the world; don't lump us all into the same category as the morons that booed.

Cheers,

Paul

#136

Buchanan is not a politician. He’s a buffoon who runs his mouth. Because nobody takes him seriously, he’s not influential and he represents an outlier viewpoint, he will shoot his mouth with the most insane comments. He’s a non-issue, as far as I and many others are concerned.

But politicians are different, as you said, and they should know better. Herb Dhaliwal is not a backbencher, but a cabinet member. This is the front line and a representative of the country. Such behavior is inexcusable.

I disagree with this idea of Anti-Americanism, however. I agree that there are some who harbour deep resentment towards the US.

However, I suspect it has more to do with the fact that we consider the US and Canada are two distinct countries, who are friendly enough and have a strong enough history of cooperation to call one another shitheads occassionally. Yes, I know that sounds vague, but I believe it to be true. Socially, economically, politically, environmentally every once in a while an issue arises and the crap gets tossed back and forth. Canadian politicians do it, American politicians do it, but these people are smaller and less significant than the history that binds us. Every once in a while fishermen get upset, farmers get upset, exporters get upset, and so on. Can we expect any less?

I will agree to disagree. I’m from Edmonton and I lived in Toronto for a bit and I found anti-American sentiment to be pretty pervasive in both cities. My father’s from Montreal and I visit it a lot and I know it’s overwhelming over there.

But whether the US or Canada like it or not, they’re stuck with each other forever. Having lived in both countries for extended periods of time and traveled elsewhere, they could probably have a lot worse neighbors than each other! Canadians might think the US is overbearing, but just imagine being next to France! Oh, wait, there’s Quebec. ;-) But seriously, they’re both lucky to have each other rather than China, Syria or North Korea next door.

And finally, I'm not sure why you're so anti-peacekeeping. Yes, there are military vehicles involved. Yes, Canada also fights on occasion. But we do also have an international reputation as a mainstay on the peacekeeping front.

I’m not anti-peacekeeping, but I’m pointing out a fact about the purpose of the military. Canada is not a passive nation by any means. Maybe the Canadian military does peacekeeping activities, but it also does a lot of combative ones. Canadian soldiers have always had a good reputation in battle – Afghanistan, Gulf War 1, Vietnam and both WW’s, to name a few. Canada should not forget nor cower from that fact or their history; they should do whatever they can to point it out.

#1 and #2 started off right. french cowards all of them. as a canadian who supports the US and President Bush I think these ass holes will someday regret what they have done. most young canadians are uninformed about history, morality, truth, justice, economics, life, death, and any other thing that you can name.

I am another Canadian that is ashamed of my government and our country's pathetic anti-american sentiment.

Frankly, I blame it on sheer Canadian ignorance. We have apparently failed to learn the most obvious lessons of history, and thus we fail to deconstruct idiotic statements like "America is an empire".

To give you an example, just a few days ago I was arguing with a co-worker about why Saddam should be deposed (and to put this into context, I work with some of the supposedly best-educated individuals in my country) and he made the statement: "America is such an empire. They want to dominate the whole world and take over everything". To that I responded: "I disagree, I don't think that the US has shown an interest in conquering and occupying foreign territory. In fact, let's take Canada as an example. If the US were such an expansionist empire, why don't they just take us over? It would be the easiest invasion in history, and think of the resources they would gain." He responded: "They already have conquered us. They take our best and brightest talent in all fields - so that Canada can't possibly compete, militarily or economically. America deliberately acts to keep Canada down".

How am I supposed to take this kind of crap seriously? Unfortunately, this is the typical Canadian mentality. It is defeatist, and it fails to take into account that one's failure is more often than not the result of one's own actions and not the fault of others.

Today, I watch TV (those wonderful Canadian channels, I may as well be watching al-Jazeera) that love to emphasize all the "massive anti-war demonstrations", with statements like "palestinans are marching in solidarity with the iraqi people today" (yeah, definitely not in solidarity with Saddam who gives them 20K per successful jewish murder). I watch the CBC as it shows some liberal politician (the same one who visited Iraq a few weeks ago) who says about her trip to Iraq after the first Gulf War "I was greeted with these little Iraqi girls, and they were so happy and friendly. I was confused, I would have been happier if they had thrown rocks at me." (Fisk-envy?)

I walk the streets and see the useful idiots protesting. I wonder, can it be really true that the majority of my country is this blind? Why are so few Canadians furious with the lack of leadership of our own prime minister?

I can only console myself with 2 things. First, I hope that once we realize that there will not be the mass-casualties the left predicts, the true atrocities of Saddam's regime are uncovered and the Iraqis are shown welcoming the American "invasion", those useful idiots would shut up. Second, I rejoice that there is at least one country in this world who will forcefully face up to the threat facing humanity today, despite those protesters filling the streets.

After some wretched behavior, some seem to have behaved with class:

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

Everybody knows that Canada starts at the Manitoba border and goes west from there .So don't be upset by what some of the pretend Canadians who can't even speak the language do.

Oh, yeah... I'm a Canadian on the West coast, and I'll bet that I'm more disgusted with our national government that any American.
And please, you guys remember: those dorks in Quebec aren't even Canadians in spirit. They want to separate from the real Canada.
Real Canadians do NOT speak french.
I'm embarrassed we are not helping our ally do a job that we will definitely benefit from.
Cretien is a weasel, and if he wasn't our "leader" he'd be in jail for the things he's done.

Come on now....consider the source (Montreal hockey fans) and move on.........

They do not know what good sportsmanship is, never did and never will so why waste your breath.

If the US was to drop one MOAB onto the Molson factory, Canada's economy would crumble.