Can this be true? I know the Palestinians are politically retarded, but are they so retarded that they'd start suicide bombing Americans while Bush is talking about the "road map"? Yeah yeah, I know, Hamas doesn't accept the road map. But Arafat does, and he's got to have some leverage. Very strange indeed.

I checked DEBKA and they don't have anything about Hamas, for what it's worth.

Iraq: suicide attacks are military policy

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure" - Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right."- Rush Limbaugh

Re: 1

Yes, it seems they are that retarded. Even if Arafat had no leverage what-so-ever with Hamas, he is 100% in charge of Fatah - and they announced they were sending in their suicide squads earlier today.

I get that feeling this "road map" is going to be a dead-end. How can we even pretend to take these people seriously in their pleas that the violence was based on a need for self-determination when they are commiting violence against us outside their "borders".

They dont want a 'road map'

They want all of it.

I'm not all surprised about the Saudis pulling out all stops...Not only would a liberated Iraq cause uprisings amongst its population, but we are less dependent on their control of OPEC. We can get a lot tougher on them now. It's just a disaster for Saudi Arabia...couldn't happen to nicer folks

Preemptive statement to those that would argue that "of course they are doing that, they're upset with our support for Israel" ...

No, they're just starting to realize that their pretense of "wanting peace" isn't fooling anybody anymore (well, Europe, but they're perpetual suckers), so they've dropped the charade.

our soldiers can kill them too. hell we should all pitch in and give all the terrorists in the world a free plane ticket to saddam international airport. we should pitch in to build them bunkers, nice ones, with cable and dancing girls.

this is not a pretty war. it will get much uglier before its done. and with every homisui-cide attack our forces will adjust and overcome. you think any more vehicles are going to cruise up to a checkpoint before its stopped one hundred yards out and its occupants forced to vacate it or die? i dont think so. we adjust and overcome, we are Americans. we dressed the part and placed our flag on one moon already, we can rerobe and do it in iraq too.

Target aquired.....target Riyad - into the heart of darkness.

Are you suggesting an actual link between Saddam and Islamic terrorists?

[/sacasm]

This would appear to have something to do with the Fatah march to Baghdad:

Arafish: We can't let those Hamas splodeydopes get the jump on us! Our splodeydopes must have precedence over those Hamas poseurs!

Arafish Toady: Splitters!

Target aquired.....target Riyadh - into the heart of darkness.

I think what this means is a WWII-style war, with many fronts, the common thread being fighting muslims. I mean this country is going to have to pitch in, ration, save and sacrifice to provide the sustenance the troops need and promote the propaganda to demonize the enemy. The posters, movies and press put out in WWII served to galvanize the public in a pro-American way, in a way that kept the 5th column at bay or imprisoned or dead. We have to get together as a country, prosecute the obstructionist and felony protesters, and make a real effort to put America first. I forsee internment camps or deportation or jail for non-citizens from terrorist nations (read-muslims) for their own protection as well as ours... This war is going worldwide and we need to be realistic and prepare like sober patriotic Americans. Thank G-d for the current administration and it's tack, I also predict Israel coming into this in a big way.. Together we can defeat this Islamic virus that would destroy our civilization- but it's going to be long, bloody, and expensive. Get ready America, to kick some ass.

Arafat is a cur.

//*******

I have no doubt that this story is correct, ven though Id never thought of all those terrorists migrating to Iraq to fight the US army it fits thier MO. Hopefully.....when the Iraqi military is crushed the Iraqi people will finger the terrorists in thier midst and "The Agency" can make them disapear.

Fascinating program on the Think Tank talk show on PBS this Saturday morning ([Link: www.pbs.org...]

A group of scholars debated the US-Euro confrontation as an extension of the Cold War, which began from two different historical roots: French enlightenment and revolutionary politics, and Scottish free-market liberalism. They traced the influence of Scottish thinkers, such as Hume and Adam Smith, on the American Founding Fathers. These Scots developed their thinking as a reaction to the British crown's attempts at domination. After the British dissolved the Scottish parliament in 1707, there was an exodus of Scots to the New World, who brought their values and concepts with them, especially those dealing with mercantilism and property law. The French Enlightenment, in contrast, was seen as a reaction from Louis XIV's (ol' l'etat, c'est moi) statism, to notions of the state as being responsive to social change, to revolutionary politics, which in turn inspired Karl Marx, Lenin, Mao, and social democracy.

It was pretty indicative of how American intellectuals see the French today to characterize the Cold War as being inspired by a contest between Scottish liberalism, and French statism! One of them said, essentially, that French thinking inspired the Cold War.

Two other comments were interesting: globalization is an extension of Scottish liberalism, and that "the genie is out of the bottle" - meaning that as soon as people in the developing world have tasted the fruits of that liberalism, there's no going back.

Here's the complete transcript:

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

What's you can't see, though, is the cutaways the producers edited in: when the talking heads were talking about French thinking, they cutaway to period etchings of people being guillotined! I Laughed-Out-Loud!

If Arafat had no control over Hamas he'd ask the world to help expel them from Jordyptia.

This could play out well. Look, I don't want any Brits to take any casualties or die, but let's say it's in the cards already for a few of them. Artillery, AK-47, whatever. What if instead they are killed by HAMAS and/or Fatah, and the Jordyptians are dancing and singing in the streets and passing out candy over it? Might get some Brits to wake the hell up and face their self-delusions.

American forces have got to stay in post-war Iraq for 5-yrs minimum ready to roll. It must be announced (in the PC world, these things have to be stipulated, and this done multiple times) that harboring and funding terrorists is an act of war. Any organization working in your country and attacking US forces anywhere is an act of war. Encouraging terrorism in state-approved media or mosques is an act of war. There will be complete regime change and then some.

The Saudis, Syrians, Jordyptians will either choke on the monsters of their own creation or will be taken out of our misery. I like that.

This is the beginning of the War of the Worlds. All our clucking over the Israelis having to show restraint will go out the window now that Americans and our friends are dying by the same tactics. I would not go as far as AndreaSF, #11, in deportation and internment camps, but I agree that the war is going to metastasize as the Palis and others place their terrorist bets. Their buses heading into Iraq will make fine target practice.

Another really appalling aspect of the way that this war is being handled is the way that we are setting up the Iraqi people to be slaughtered.

According to a front page article in today's Chicago Tribune, the British military is disarming the general population!

OUTSIDE BASRA, Iraq -- Villages outside Basra have fallen prey to bandits and looters, and residents of the area warned Friday of rising unrest during a seige of the city by U.S. and British troops.

Without police since the war began nine days ago, villagers complain that by cooperating with the British military and turning in all their guns, they now find themselves unable to protect themselves from members of the ruling Baath Party and thugs who are shaking down businesses and stealing cars, tankers, trucks, oil eqipment and other property.

Subjecting the Iraqi population to British-style gun control in the middle of a guerrilla/terrorist war is the height of irresponsibility. These people need to be given weapons to defend themselves and their property. Instead they are being deliberately rendered helpless and unable to defend themselves, while the countryside is crawling with their, and our enemies.

I certainly hope for the sake of the Iraqi people that their new Constitution includes a 2nd Amendment style clause.

We are learning. Our soldiers cannot just walk up to these idiots, especially when they are in a vehicle. There needs to be distance. Fortunately, they are in the desert.
And that column of metal is drawing evil to it. Better that they come and die than hide.

#13 Mark/New York

Very interesting. Thanks for the link Mark.

#11 andreaSF
if you straighten your back very quickly, into a proper sitting position, don't be frightened by the noise of your head popping out of your ass. you'll be alright after some q-tips and a good shampoo.

Not that I couldn't believe it was either Hamas or al-Qaeda involved (either seems more likely than that Iraqis are suddenly adopting suicide bombings) but "He was a member of Hamas--or possibly a Saudi" doesn't sound remotely like the words of an authoritative source, or even a clueful one.

Forgive me for not trusting an unnamed source from an Internet piece from an opinion magazine, but I wouldn't give TOO much credence to this one example. Don't get me wrong, I love NRO, but if information like this is out there, wouldn't it be more likely for it to pop up on one of the major news sites? If I had credible information about something like this, and wanted it covered, I'd go right over to Fox or CNN -- not NRO.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be at all surprised by a development like this. We should keep our eyes and ears open for more credible information on this front.

#19 - I think the people with the heads in their ass are ones who aren't realistic about what we are facing. Real intelligent you, insulting and not contributing.

#19:
I'm confused. Are you saying that 1) we Americans would never stoop so low or 2) there is no threat from Islam to Western values and civilization?

#21:
If there's one thing you should be taking away from the mainstream press' coverage of this conflict, it's that they're occasionally right, but rarely on purpose.

This will most likely be swept under the rug by the Realpolitikers just like Asan Akbar bin Kool's raving Islamonazi standing.

AndreaSF, you go girl. BTW Im in SF too and its nice to hear from someone who gets it AND lives in my city by the bay. Take Care.

I fuckin' knew it! It takes a religious nut to do this job, and saddam's regime is/was painfully secular.
Now, arafat and co. have started to do some exporting. As it is indeed the most effective tool terrorists have, I expect this to become a worldwide plague.

US forces may partially protect themselves by stopping cars like these a 100 meters away, but it is not really effective when dealing with more than a trickle of traffic. Also, the car itself may be wired, even if the driver is not, and there is no way to confirm this at a distance. The alternative, blowing away any suspect car at a 100 meters, will alienate the local populace against the US, which is saddam's goal.

Israel uses intelligence (i.e. informants) in order to overocme the problem. The US will take a long time before it has such a level of cooperation from the Iraqis. Our intelligence gathering nets weren't built in a day, too. I guess this proliferation of terror is Israel's fault - partially. Israel is to blame, because it treated terror with kid gloves. It is only partially to blame, because it is the US, along with practically every country in the world, who made it act so.

The solution? There are two, or one, depends how you see it. It is going after the terrorist's operators and enablers - with extreme prejudice. Here we level the residence of any suicide bomber. Targetting bombers' families has been a hot topic in Israel for any number of years now. The consensus is against it, and we settle for destruction of perperty alone. Probably, leveling the family residence without prior warning will deter the next bomber, but we're still not willing to pay that price, neither politically nor morally, to our own souls.
The other solution is using the same method - against the known head of the organization which sent the bomber. These guys are not suicidal. Wiping themselves out is not in their plans, only killing others and getting rich and powerful ala arafish. Israel tried this method, but only half-heartedly. Again, I think, it was due to outside pressure. And yes, again I mean the US - we hardly give a s**t about France and its ilk. When the PFLP killed our tourism minister, Rehav'am Ze'evi (also a retired general), Israel let the PA "arrest" the perpetrators, including the head of the PFLP, and put them through its "justice" system, instead of making it known that these people will be killed with large explosions, and woe to any person who is near them at any time. And doing it, naturally.

BTW, one of the ways Israel's hands were tied is by the US insisting that terrorist leaders and spokespersons are not to be actually classified as terrorists, the same way the thug with the AK or the suicide belt is. I don't blame the US entirely for it - we have here a large crowd which came up with the same idea. Maybe they even started this crap. Trouble is, this must stop, if we want suicide bombings to stop. Rantissi is not less culpable than Yassin (religious head of Hamas), and both are no less culpable than any bomber which blows himself up in Israel, and now also in Iraq. But they are not fanatics. Rantissi's wife refused to send her son to the suicide squads. They are in it for money, power and hate. we know the targets. We only need the will to take them out.

I think one thing we can take out of this article, because I have seen it elsewhere, is that Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia are running scared.

Most people (not the people on here) do not understand the significance of installing a Western government in Iraq.

Yes, there are mostly thugs recruited from Iraq's prisons, given a gun and a uniform and turned loose to terrorize the populace.

I wonder when it will be time for the US to release our own "dirty dozen" to be granted pardons for killing our enemies?

#25- thanks Chris, sometimes I feel like an island on an island out here in proto-marxist SF

Why does everyone act so #)^#@! suprised that the Iraqis are adopting the tactics of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.

HELLO! THEY ARE CUT FROM THE SAME CLOTH!

The difference between a Palestinian and an Iraqi is where they take a #$%^. That's it.

WHEN ARE YOU AND THE LAME-O MEDIA GOING TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE WHOM YOU'RE DEALING WITH?

The world sits around and castigates the Israelis for trying to deal with these death cultist beasts. Now, its their turn.

#13 Mark/New York

Good post! I had a libertarian history/civics teacher in HS who made pretty much the same point and it has stayed with me for all these years.

Ps. Are you "Markku" that posts on Bjorn Staerk's blog?

If these scumbags want to die so much and visit their 72 pickles or raisins or whatever, can't we make it happen?

I see sunshine, through the pourin' rain (of a-bombs, that is)

AndreaSF,

You can't be from SF. There isn't a rational non-leftist within 100 mile of that place.

Have to agree with your line of thinking though. It's time to light the fires!

Model4..

your cracking me up..Im trying to pronounce Jordyptia....

LOL

help me out here...

oh yeah, I live here with my husband and two kids and one more on the way.. and Oh my G-d, were Jewish.

Well, this war had to be fought one way or another, in Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Iran...ever since 9-11. These devils were never going to go away and they've all had us in their gunsights for a long, long time. It was only a matter of time before they all started to gang up. Bin Laden was only the tip of the iceberg.

But look at it this way--it's the great metaphysical challenge--good against absolute evil--and the troops won in Afghanistan and are maintaining it there, they'll defeat these devils too. Why just yesterday or the day before the air support took out about 500 fighters; what's 500 Hamas? Okay it sounds scarier when you think of them in those 'terrorist' terms.
But Israel's been defeating them and the allies defeated them in Afghanistan and they are slowly, slowly being defeated here as well.

If this is truly the apocalyptic battle spoken of in so many books, then that monumental Armageddon only lasts for seven years after which the forces of good defeat the bad guys and then peace reigns for 1,000 years.

And if it's not, maybe it's another apocalyptic battle but between them killing themselves and us killing them, unless they're cloning themselves they don't have an infinite supply.

It takes twenty years to grow and tree and almost that long to grow a Jihadi fighter (if he's to be of much good). That means for every one that dies, it's going to take 15-20 years to replace him. The world can change completely in that time.

Think of them as zombies from 'Dawn of the Dead' except for every one that goes down, that's just one less to worry about.

A dead Hamas terrorist by any other name is just another stiff.

LET FREEDOM RING!

This is no longer a war to remove the threat of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and liberate Iraq. Yes, those still are part of our objectives. But it is--much more--a war between our conventional forces and most of the terrorist world.

BRING IT ON, MOFOS! Nothing would make my day more than to see the whole lot of them coming slithering into Iraq, right into the middle of the hell on earth that US troops are going to give them.

#34 ploome: place: Jor-DIP-shuh people: Jor-DIP-shun

I'm open to suggestions though. The words are fictitious, just like the proposed nation. :P

Outerwear by DuPont, anyone? Step right up, Mr. Terrorist. We've got just your size! Here, let me give you this transistor radio made to fit the inside pocket as our gift to you.

(As soon as he clears the store, hit the button, George.)

AndreaSF- Bay? Jewish? CONSERVATIVE!!!! Careful out there, Feinstein and Boxer (with Willie's help) will attempt to have you tried as a war criminal!

Go, girl!

Jayna Davis has been following up on the Oklahoma City bombing, jaynadavis.com.

Our gummit refuses to look into this.

In October of 2002, David Schippers was interviewed for Chicago Mag. He not only thinks Iraq was involved, but also Hamas.

On the bright side, the more they send, the more we kill.

#38 funny one :) I prefer "shitlandistan" myself.

AndreaSF,

I was inSF for a couple years at Alameda NAS, you have my sympathy. The best thing to happen to Berkley was that wild fire a few years ago. Move to Atlanta, you'll be happier.

#36, Elizabeth,

You're exactlly right.

Hamas (and even more so, Hezbollah) are a plague on the earth that must be eliminated before peace can reign. Let's deal with them both while we have the force in the Middle East.

After all, the US Marines owe a blood debt to Hezbollah anyway. About time that they collected it.

Has anyone seen this article?
Report: Rumseld Ignored Pentagon Advice on Iraq
I can't deny, this stuff freaks me. Anyone up to dissecting this or at least giving me a little "reality check"? Please and thank you.

ve

In preparation for this war, while we diddled with the U.N. for the past five months, Saddam has been welcoming terrorists in by the truckload. And now,
it is they who are fighting, and preventing regular Iraqi units from surrendering.

As I have said before, GREAT! We'll just be sending a huge # of these goofs straight to moon god hell. There shouldn't be a whole lot left by the time we roll on Syria or Iran.

#44

"The only hope is that they can hold out until reinforcements arrive," the former official said.

- what a load. This has got to be disinformation or Scott Ritter.

AndreaSF:

You may be right. Neither WWI nor WWII were the kinds of "hands-off" war we're fighting now - and we're not close to being done, even if Iraq capitulates today. I'm a collector of war posters, and it's very obvious from the propaganda put out during both world wars that they were truly national efforts - everybody saved, produced, invested, fought or prayed. We're not even close to that kind of an effort, but it may well come to that.
BTW, since you're Jewish: once we control Iraq, why don't we section off a nice big piece of it and relocate the "Palestinians" there? It looks like there's enough territory there to give every one of them forty acres. And a mule too, so they can have sex.

#44 velvetelvis

me too....its probably disinformation..

I do think, we are in for a very dirty fight...

I will begin praying, we have the stomach for it...

and we dont wait for a disaster to get mean

#16 jms

My question is, what makes you think that normal iraqi's had access to firearms under saddam's rule?
It would seem logical to me that the only ones with guns in iraq are those folks who are part of saddam's security apparatus or somehow on his payroll...

So... taking away weapons from people in iraq doesn't cahnge things that much... certainly it doesn't harm them anymore than the status quo, and it helps out allied forces since that means less AK-47's shooting at them...

#38

Asshatistan, capital city - Islamisbad

we need a new Manhattan Project....to find alternative to oil....now

we need to suspend all immigration from islamic countries...restrict visas, demand sponsors for visas, not longer than 30 days.

we need to amend citizenship laws...only children born of American parents in the USA are automatically citizens.....

we need a redesign the drivers license so that they are all the same....except for the state designation, to make sure the cards are valid and familliar.....wouldnt need an ID card....

can Americans get a French or German drivers license...for example...? anyone know.?

are my ideas awful.?

#47 - that was my point. victory will come when the nation casts aside the PC stance we've taken and sees the nature of the enemy. They have no use for political correctness and have sworn to kill or convert us. The country as a whole has not taken this to heart, and that is what will prolong and widen this war. We pride ourselves on being a compassionate nation, but I see it as being misdirected - example: feeling sorry for palis "well, they're driven to suicide bomb because of their circumstances" and other such shallow nonsense. The islamofacists understand power and will, not compassion, and therefore view us as a soft target, that is why now we see them trying to gang up on us by sending fighters to Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I believe the US has the means and talent and moral fortitude to win, I just believe we have to muster the WILL. Thanks for all the support out there, It is hard being a conservative Jew in SF, but in a weird way, it steels my heart and keeps my head straight to be surrounded by the degeneracy, I sure don't feel complacent! G-d bless you LGF'ers, this is a nice refuge to come to when feeling overwhelmed by the lefties!

by the way, I have too much respect for mules for that, maybe some hyenas could be imported?

#44 velvetelvis: That report is bullshit. "I only hope they can hold out" who said this? The chick that works behind the counter at the Pentagon's flower shop? I wouldn't worry much over it. How much danger do you really think our troops are in of all 125,000 of them being wiped out?

This is politics. Would more troops have been useful? Maybe, but this article frames the debate as if we're looking at winning or losing the war over the next week. If the alternate plan had been followed and Iraq caved by now, we'd be treated to writing saying "Why did we wait to assemble so many forces, and waste all the extra money deploying them when a much lighter force would have done the job?"

As effective as our forces have been, remember that we've been fighting with a very light touch so far. If things start to get worse, we could show the enemy the error of their ways.

Hopefully the terrorists that are being transported to Iraq will pick up conventional arms and fight alongside the fedayeen instead of this suicide bomber chickenshiat. That way we can slaughter them without taking heavy losses. Its like dumping chlorine in the gene pool. All the Arab nations are sending their terrorists off to die in Iraq. Hopefully this will be another rout like Afghanistan where we just butchered the stupid Jihadis. I have a very bad feeling though that after the war the terrorists will meld with the general population and try suicide bomb shit against our troops. Maybe the Iraqis will be nice enough to point them out because of their accents or whatever.

Oh, and don't forget how Turkey fucked us at the urging of the French. We'd have had those forces on another front already. And to preempt the coming leftist drivel, of course Turkey has the right to make up its own mind. But they could have stood up and played it straight with us. They jumped through multiple hoops to be deceptive.

#54 Model4,

Thanks, that is the kind of logical argument I was looking for, sometimes hard to see the forest through the trees.

#51 Ploome,

I can relate to all of what you are feeling. Some ideas "alternative fuel" are right on, others may be a little reactionary. Still, in times like these they seem a lot more reasonable then they otherwise would.

ve

#51 ploome
#53 andreaSF

Export the lefties, but remove their gonads first.

#56 Model4

The US pretty much fucked itself over Turkey access.

If I ask you a favor and you tell me you'd love to but you need your kids to agree, it means no -- and you think I'm a fool, too.

When the Turkish gov't said they'd love to but they needed a vote in the Parliament, it meant the same thing.

#51 ploome

can Americans get a French or German drivers license...for example...?

Yes, of course. Italian, too. Why not? I do have an American driving license.

Say goodbye to the "roadmap".

Mark/New York (#13): So we can blame the French for Stalin, too? Excellent!

velvetelvis (#44): More disgruntled old-guard generals with an axe to grind. Same shit, different package. Again, the only troops being missed are the ones Turkey screwed us over on. Waiting there until they shipped into Kuwait wasn't an option -- the other troops would've been sitting ducks (for, say, a bio/chem attack), esp. after the decapitation strike. Now they're in good position, we've kept most oil wells from burning, taken key bridges, apparently cleared out the Scud box in the west, and flushed out the nature of (most of) Saddam's dirty tricks. Plus other special ops stuff that's been going on under cover of the advance, which we won't find out about for a while. Casualties are still laughably one-sided, and if anything's to blame for the deaths we've taken it's rules of engagement type stuff, not the size of the force. Remember, this article is Sy Hersh, whose bias on the administration is easily summed up by his Perle hatchet job.

Being a mediot means never having to say you're sorry. Remember the Afghan 'quagmire'?

AndreaSF. It's truly heartening to see that there are some decent souls left in the Bay area. I lived there in the 60's and early 70's. I used to be a liberal democrat at the time, but I came to my senses. (I moved from the Bay Area and converted to conservatism.)

I moved here in the early 90's - just looking to party and have a good time - but I started to grow up and mature in a hurry when I experienced the sheer magnitude of degenerate lowlife behavior and emotionally driven ill-informed propaganda being spouted by these supposedly "well educated" denziens, not to mention the filth and rudeness on the streets.. And I must say, on September 11, 2001 - when I stood in front of my television with my jaw on the floor WATCHING IN REAL TIME people leaping from the top of the WTC, it was one of the worst, most horrible moments of my life. Whatever wishy-washyness or ambivilence left of my immature adolescence was gone forever.

I agree with Elizabeth and with other posters who do not see this as a bad thing. If we have the biggest and best and most well-trained group of Allies gathered in one place, then it makes sense that they go up against the biggest of the bad guys at that same time and place, when there is maximum preparedness.

I would believe Saudi's are part of the bad guys because I keep reading about them blowing themselves up by accident in Riyadh, and that what passes for police in KSA have actually been arresting some of them there and actually arresting them for terrorist activities. It would make sense that the unarrested who are still unexploded would have headed out for Iraq where they can make the most of their explosive tendencies.

Thing no one else seems to have thought of here, is that *if* there is an international call to jihad (which there has been) then why are we assuming that all the little martyrs-in-waiting will head for Iraq and not fan out to less well-protected places? I don't think we have to worry too much here in US because we're being pretty beady-eyed about watching for Arab-looking men carrying grenades, but if I was in Canada or France or Germany I think I'd stay away from buses and pizza parlors for the next little bit.

(I could not *believe* that on the Turkish plane that was hijacked, the passengers allowed the punk to get away with it, *and* that Greeks allowed it to land. Oh well, the Parthenon's been around long enough, I guess.)

Caton: Starting to see your point, but how was the U.S. foolish for asking? Now after the 4th time Turkey said "No. But ask us again in two days, I'm sure it'll be yes then", it was obviously a farce.

Thinking more about this -- if what Babbin says can be confirmed, I think it would provide a good opportunity for President Bush to tell the American public that to a somewhat unexpected extent it turns out we're fighting Terrorism International, not just the Iraqi government, but that the scum have no more chance against our troops in Iraq than they did in Afghanistan.

This would do much to clear the air of misleading media speculation and spin, and get the public focused on the multiplying stakes here.

Plus the more he can spin this as foreign occupation of Iraq by these elements, the better.

#65 Model4

I'm not saying the U.S. was foolish to ask. I'm saying you ask once, then you move on. The way the U.S. kept asking and waiting was really stupid.

Caton: sort of like we kept asking at waiting at the UN?

Caton: Thanks. If anyone's interested the WSJ did on op-ed on some of the thinking that went into the impasse.
[Link: www.opinionjournal.com...]
heretic: LOL!

Ploome (#48),
Sadly, I thing VE is right. In our local papers Rumsfeld was quoted, before the war, as saying the US will need much less fighting men than one would tend to think, and that each will do the work of what ten soldiers did in other wars.
I remeber thinking to myself that may be true, but if one puts the work of ten men on one, than if the one is hit and taken out, you have effectively lost ten men.
There is no replacement for the grunt as yet. Numbers are important.
Now, as to whether he got advice to the contrary from the Pentagon... Now that the media has cast an unfavorable light on the progress of the war, people have ulterior motives to saying they advised to the contrary and weren't taken seriously.
But keep in mind: Rumsfeld is a hardliner. It is also very important he is a survivor of the attack on the Pentagon (we also have one posting here...). Attacks on your person are the best incentive to paranoia ever. One can be certain Rummy acted the way he did in very good faith, holding nothing back.

#68 heretic

Yep, same thing.

"I'll think about it" is a polite way of saying "No".

#49:

Quoting from the article:

"villagers complain that by cooperating with the British military... "

Ok, who is cooperating with the British military?

Is it the Hamas terrorists? Hell no. They're hiding and keeping their weapons.

Is it the Fedayeen? Hell no. They're hiding and keeping their weapons.

Is it the average, honest, trusting villager, who is welcoming the U.S. and British, and inclined to do as they ask?

My question is, what makes you think that normal iraqi's had access to firearms under saddam's rule?

Plenty of normal Iraqis have had the opportunity to acquire weapons over the last decade or two. Obviously not officially, but certainly clandestinely. The region is practically swimming in smuggled weapons.

Or, to put it this way, if I lived in a police state like Iraq, under constant threat of war, and I had the opportunity to acquire a weapon to defend my family and community in case of attack or revolution, I would do so in a heartbeat.

Given the information in this article, what represents the best chance for an average Iraqi citizen to defend himself, his family, and his property against Saddam loyalists and imported terrorists and thugs? -- in other words, to survive?

1) The hope that the U.S. or British leave a permanent military force, to defend their town in perpetuity?

2) To arm himself and defend his own self, family, property, and community?

Put yourself in their position. There are no police. The British and/or American armies could leave at any moment. Saddam's loyalists are waiting in the hills to swoop down on your town and retake it. This is life or death. Can you trust yourself and your neighbors with weapons? Do you want a weapon or not? Really?

Caton: Unfortunately, if you're an American, "I'll think about it" usually means, "give me more money."

#73 heretic

Ah. This explains the fuck-up with Turkey...

There's a couple of points that I'll make to counter this argument. First, it's a great thing that terrorists from all over the Arab world have gathered in Iraq, open the
borders, let all the bastards in. At least there while we are fighting a war, we can kill the sons of bitches, which is much better than waiting until they strike and then
trying to arrest them. Secondly, gathering up all the civilians to stand in front of weapons caches, impressing all males into suicide squads and sending them against
tanks, taking over schools, hospitals and markets and making them defensive positions, stealing food from civilians to feed your comrades from other countries, and
generally being an obnoxious bunch of assholes, is not the best way to endear yourself to the average Iraqi civilian. That's what Al Queda did in Afganistan, and most
of the locals were glad to see them get blown to smithereens.

#64

Don't forget the Greeks already blew up the Parthenon.

Lets Surround Bagdad, send out an open invite to all the terrorists (and Palastinian people) to help defend Bagdad, sneak the good people of Bagdad out. Add one MOAN (Mother of all Nukes) = problem solved.

I once stayed in a German spa called 'Bad Karma'.

Mock Chicken Hawk (#78)

That's simply fascinating. Do you have more stories like that?

15 U.S. Troops Injured in Kuwait Attack

CAMP UDAIRI, Kuwait - An attacker drove a truck into a group of U.S. soldiers Sunday as they waited outside a base store at Camp Udairi, injuring 15 people, a U.S. military official said.

The attacker drove a small white Nissan pickup truck during the incident, which occurred at around noon, said Lt. Col. Larry Cox, the public affairs officer at the base.

The fun never stops.

There is a very easy way we could end this bloodshed and strife.

We could all convert to Islam. We should seriously think about it. We could all bang our heads on the ground five times a day, make sure to travel to a big rock in the ground once a year, and refrain from all types of showers and basic hygiene. And don't forget the retro feel of living in the 11th century.

At least the French and our European friends have started down this path. All of this bloodshed is entirely unnecessary. I wish our leaders could see how easy this solution is, and how many innocent lives could be saved.

The key question for me is: how will the populations of the USA, UK, Australia etc react when Hamas and all the other wackjobs start doing their stuff over here? I'm pretty sure it will be blamed on America. The left will be able to say, 'This never happened until we went into Iraq...'

There's little other choice than:

1. making every incoming car stop 100 meters away
2. the driver must exit the car
3. the driver & passengers will apprach slowly & well spaced, while picking up their shirt to show there are no explosives strapped to their bodies.

I do believe these are not Iraqies who do these suicide bombings, but Jihadies from other countries. Any palestinians there are likely to be from Lebanon, rather
than from the occupied territories.
As for the involvment of organizations, it does'nt take much preparation to do a suicide bombing in Iraq. It does take much planning when it has to do with terror attacks in US military bases in Arab countries.

As for Hamas... I don't think they are involved. Contrary to the PLO, they are not dumb. The PLO & Yasser on the other hand have made a strategic alliance with Saddam long ago. They are the ones who depend on him for monetary assistance, Hamas have their own financial & political supporters.
Don't be so quick to buy the "PLO-good, Hamas-bad" propaganda, especially considering it is the PLO which is pushing that concept.

andreaSF,

excuse my attack. i saw sf and had a allergic reaction.

we cannot wear blinders about this enemy, you are correct. we also should not overestimate their strength.

i find it nearly impossible to believe their is a good soul in sf. i hear rumors, but fatcs seem to outweigh them.

OK, I wanted to find a reference on Fox News' web site but couldn't. Earlier this morning their "tagline" coverage (the text below the talking heads, but not the scrolling marquee) stated that (rough quote) "Palestinian homicide bombers are inside Baghdad".

On their website I did come across a mention of Saddam Hussein supposedly giving medals and money to the family of the supposed Iraqi soldier who carried this out. Of course, we can trust the Iraqi Ministry of Information, can't we?

Saddam Rewards Homicide Bomber's Family

#83 Outsider: The other option is that your average Iraqi is not firmly in the grips of the death cult and are willing to turn in the foreigners that are ruining life for them. Note how many of the Afghanis were happy to turn in Saudis/Arabs that "didn't belong there" and were bringing additional misery to their miserable land.

Of course this will require increased safety for the Iraqis and a level of comfort and partnership in their dealings with the Allies.

This will make it that much easier to kill the bastards. One-stop-shopping. Get yer terrorists here! Kill two and the third one is free!