Amen! Could someone please post a list of the NION signers? Not for persecution, but for ridicule.

Damn straight, in my name. (Not skukeisha, the real one, which is Kelley). I, for one, feel vindicated. Even though my conscience told me we were right all along.

Good one, Charles.

I wish they would take some responsibility for what they did and said.

I wish that it didn't have to be a wish....

It's a good day. I never fail to be thrilled when I see tyranny overthrown and people free. I saw it in the fall of the Berlin Wall, I saw it when the people of Romania overthrew their corrupt rulers and I saw it (briefly) in the first Gulf War. I see it again today, and I am as thrilled as ever.

Damn it's good to be RIGHT!!!

Sadly, the truth means nothing to the majority of the idiots described above. Their reasoning had nothing to do with reason - it was based in hatred. Hatred of Republicans, of capitalism, of America, of democracy, of the West.

Hopefully, a few of the younger ones dragged in by their parents or teacher will realize the truth, but I'm not overly optimistic.

These people ignored the documented proof of Saddam's murder, torture, support of terrorism and use of WMD. Why should further proof bother them?

well said, Charles... well said....

(my favorite is the liberation on channel 25, and a protest of war on channel 26)

I wonder how long it will be before I see Mr. and Mrs. Sarandon waving their peace signs again?

Amen Charles

I, for one, will never forget those who exposed their Anti-Americanism and utter hypocrisy in judgement of GWB and co.

Let us hope the rest of the country doesn't forget either. Hit the Hollywood twits were it counts: their vanity. The worst thing in the world to the Martin Sheens and Susan Sarandons is the thought of being irrelevant. Ignore them and they will wilt away like an unwatered rose.

this is better then the berlin wall falling!!

our people had the direct hand in this happening

AND

it's something to spit in the face of every piece of trash liberal you run into (not that they'll ever admit their stupidy)

REELECT BUSH

But see, there's the rub: if liberating oppressed peoples from the yoke of tyranny is only desirable when it coincides with our national interests, I don't see where we as a nation have the right to get up on our high horse and proclaim this to be a major factor in why we're doing what we're doing. Don't get me wrong: it is a factor. But for us to get all somber about what the Iraqis have lived through while ignoring human rights abuses in nations such as Uzbekistan.

response here

Dont want to be premature..but YEAAHHHHH. "Happy Days ( In Iraq) are Here Again..de de de de de-- da da ...da da ..da da..."

And " G-d Bless America..Land That I Love"...

And we did it trying so hard NOT to kill bystanders. We even sacrificed OURSELVES as we tried to be so careful.

Now it is up to the Iraquis..embrace some kind of Democracy or throw this once in a lifetime rare chance away.

I agree with mossley, but we may get a positive result. They might STFU for a bit. Plus, any time they are in a debate, they can be instantly crushed by just saying "look how utterly wrong you were. Why should anyone listen to you?"

Hey, you with the Che Cuevara t-shirt! This in Baghdad isn't in your name, but what's going on in Cuba right now damn sure is.

BRAVO AMERICA !

...now, how about a little regime change east ? say... Damascus maybe ?

Guevara

"And remember: the Preview button is your friend! "

We should do just like we did when we discovered the concentration camps in WWII. We made German citizens tour the camps and look at the victims.

In like manner we should round up all these left-wing idiots, make them tour Saddam’s torture chambers, rape rooms, children’s prisons etc. Then they should be forced to listen to the victims’ testimony.

May their guilt in protecting that madman, haunt them the rest of their lives. But these people don’t experience guilt-just hate.

"None can love freedom heartily, but good men."

---John Milton

The question is how do we take all these people to task? How do we not let them slip away through the cracks and hide like the true cowards they are? I would like to list all the Hollywood/Lefty/Media individuals who worked so hard to keep the Iraqi people down and who were so blatantly anti-Bush/ anti America, take all there names and take out a full page ad in the NY Times, Washington Post etc. and list them for all to see.

While it may come as a shock to the liberals, they still will find some way to blame the right wing war mongers for the terrible defeat of the peace loving Iraqi patriots.
It will all be turned around in the liberal media as soon as they can find a different spin.

It is sort of funny to look back at the year here at LGF and finally realize the day we were all wanting to arrive, has finally come. I think "faster please" was the un-official motto for some of us here. Now that it is here, it doesn't feel like it's been that long. The feeling knowing that it is here is way better than I imagined.

Absolutely. I can't imagine a better or more important post. Vindication is sweet.

In my name, and in the names of millions of Iraqis, in the names of soldiers who lost their lives, in the names of millions of people brutalized by Hussein. In the name of Freedom!
Thank you, Charles

#2 shukeishka aka Kelley

You said it. Good one Charles.

In Our Name.
By Our Heroic Armed Forces And Our Truest Allies.

Thanks GW, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, Wolfowitz, et al.

Democracy! Whiskey! Sexy!

Let's hope the Iraqi people make the most of this historic opportunity, and we Americans make up for betraying their hopes in the past.

Congratulations to the coalition warriors, living and dead, for making these historic moments possible.

You have made us proud.

In our name.

Yep. In My Name.

I think we are a little premature. The 3rd ID has been in West B. for 3 days, and the Marines slugged into east B yesterday and the day before. There is a big firefight going on at the Baghdad U. as I write this.

The only reason "IRAQ Fell" now is the lazy media morons holed up in the Palestine Hotel saw a little street scene in front of their hotel. This same scene was repeated the last few days in Basra, Najaf and Al-N. No one felt Iraq as falling then. But then again it did not happen under their lazy noses in front of them. They and their Iraqi watchswine parroted the Baath party line. The Americans are being defeated, All Iraq is with the glorious leader.

Today the Iraqi people showed their true feelings to the all knowing media in Baghdad, and the media finally decided the maybe the war is going the coalition way.

My prediction, in seven days the war is again a "quagmire", because Tikrit has not fallen.

Let's focus on voting out the liberal nuts in 2004!

Regarding Hollywood: Let's stop watching their movies and TV shows.

I'd been told told that Peter Jennings has the lowest ratings in the news market. Let's keep it that way.

Leftists of the world: if you truly care about the Iraqi people as you claim to, then you will celebrate this day. If not, it only proves what many of us have long suspected - that you are nothing more than frauds, cowards and cynics, who care for nothing more than attention. Have you no shame?

.
...RUMSFELD!

......RUMSFELD!!

.........RUMSFELD!!!
.
.
.
(I can't help it!, He's the atlas here, if you know what I mean)

Thank you, Mr. President. You may not be glib and sparkingly articulate, but you have vision, and a will of iron. Thank you for doing what was right, unlike your predecessor, and for making us proud to be Americans. Thank you, U.S. Armed Forces. Thank you, Tony Blair and the Royal Marines, RAF, and Royal Navy.

Oh, and fuck you, Peter Jennings.

Exactly.
Drag Michael Moore's fat ass to the torture chambers and show him what was done. Take the Dixie Shi, er, I mean Chicks, too!

This is definitely a "tearing down the Berlin Wall" day.

After the celebrations die down, though, we need to get to work helping these people build a peaceful, free and prosperous Iraq.

And as we do so, we need to remember that the Susan Sarandons and the Michael Moores will be doing everything they can to undermine our efforts, along with the jihadis and Al Jazeera.

I just wish that I didn't have an exam tomorrow in one of my classes, because if it was a normal class I would have so much fun talking about current revelations about the war with my extremist liberal friends.

Bless you, Charles.

And yet on this momentous day, this day of long-awaited Iraqi liberation, and of sweet-tasting freedom, the first email I get from one of the Lefties I've been "debating" with ... SKIRTS THE ENTIRE FUCKING ISSUE.

He writes:

"How do you feel about drilling in Alaska?"

My reply:

"Gee, I don't know, buddy. I'm too busy rejoicing for the Iraqi people today to really think about it."

It really is no honor to share Mother Earth with these malicious fools, is it?

God willing, this is the dawn of Arab democracy.

May it be the beginning of the end for the oil-tick tyrants, the sick gurus of Jihad, and every petty little Stalin in the Middle East.

#27

Exactly! I've been boycotting any hollywood type that has an extremist liberal agenda for months now.

This is not in my name. It is in the name of the countless thousands who died at the hands of the Ba'athists before liberation. It is in the name of the hundreds of Iraqi children freed a few days ago. It is in the name of the folks who climbed on top of Saddam's statuary and planted an Iraqi flag and cheered when the statute was toppled. It is in the name of all those who gave their lives so that Iraqis may breathe freedom. It is in the name of the coalition soldiers who went above and beyond the call of duty to liberate Iraqi civilians and took great personal risk to minimize civilian casualties.

It is not in my name, for all I did was write about it and slay the idiotarians that were before me.

To all those who went to Iraq (Sean Penn et. al.), to give aid and comfort to the Saddam regime, to all the idiot protestors, to the leftist press that tried to undermine the war plan by spreading fabricated dissension - IN YOUR FACE!

Hey Sean Penn, Bonior, Sarandon, go to Baghdad now. Explain to the people your position and why you said and did the things you did. They would take your "peace" lovin *ss and tear you apart limb for limb.

Now these people may finally find out what peace is. They no longer under a reign of terror.

War does solve problems sometimes, doesn't it?

Brenda Starr is one creepy chick...

Don't forget PETER hari
from the uk mirror
BOMBS BLAST HOMES INSTEAD OF SADDAM

By Peter Arnett


WHEN I heard the story Saddam may have been bombed I knew it had to be wrong intelligence. It had to be rubbish.

Clearly if he was hurt, or had been buried, there would have been security all over the place and no one would have got near it.

When I arrived at the scene I found no security at all.

Three miles away at the Palestine Hotel we heard the bombs.

The people from the Iraqi Information Ministry told us what had happened. I was surprised.

It's a pleasant, up-market district. Mainly small homes.

We told the Information Ministry we wanted to go. There was no attempt on their part to stop us. If there was a senior official killed we would not be there.

We are never allowed near any security area. We're not allowed into the military camps, the intelligence bases, the palaces.

I'm not saying there was no intelligence tip but it was clearly incorrect. That's the nature of the intelligence game.

And if they were targeting the al-Sa'ah restaurant, as has been suggested, they missed.

I know the place. There is a fast food restaurant downstairs that sells excellent chicken. Upstairs you can get kebabs. It's very popular with the foreign community.

When we arrived the restaurant windows had been blown in. The manager told me it had been filled with people but amazingly only a couple were slightly hurt. Behind it there is now just a huge crater and mounds of rubble.

One body was pulled out dead after a couple of hours. Others were still buried when I got there, including the wife and two children of Abdil Hassad.

Abdil is a Christian who owns a shop. He is a handsome, well-dressed young man in his mid-30s.

He escaped the blast but wife Sena, 36, and daughters Rana, 10, and seven-year-old Maria were not so lucky. I found him sobbing uncontrollably by the pile of rubble.

"My wife and children are there," he cried as he crouched over the pile of masonry. As he spoke a frantic search to find people alive was going on. Neighbours threw bricks out with their hands.

There were 100 or so people from the community gathered there. All were very, very angry.

They all knew US troops had occupied palaces earlier in the day.

The people felt they were bombed maliciously.

Yarub al-Sadoon recognised me from my days with CNN.

He lives in a house across the alleyway. Yarub was thrown to the ground by the explosion but he and his family were unhurt.

Outraged he prodded my chest saying: "You won't even cover this. The Americans don't want to hear this. I defy you to cover it.

"Is this freedom that you bring us? All you come here for is to kill innocent people. You bring us death." On the one hand it's war. The US is doing very well, moving through the city systematically taking down the Iraqi defences.

On the other hand you have the collateral damage. They go after Saddam and hit several families.

And then, later, the news people get hit. I was sitting four floors below the bombed Reuters suite.

They were a very popular team. I knew the cameraman who was killed, and Paul the engineer. He was one of several people injured.

I was at the hospital when he was getting his leg amputated.

It was a shock for us the hotel was targeted. Everyone knows the Palestine Hotel. It's the most obvious landmark on the riverside.

Everyone knows it's the media hotel. A couple of hundred of us have been here for weeks.

To shoot at it, allegedly because there was sniper fire coming from it, is a pretty casual way to conduct a war. There are no snipers in this building. The only shooting going on here is from the photographers.

It is intimidating to say the least. I'd like to think it wasn't deliberate, that it was a decision made in the heat of battle.

Al Jazeera was also hit and a journalist was killed. I will concede it was in a battle zone.

But it's a building that is very clearly the Al Jazeera headquarters. Although it had also happened in Kabul during the Afghan war, it was a big surprise to me that that was destroyed.

Al Jazeera puts out material discomforting to the United States about civilian casualties.

I haven't heard any journalists saying they're getting out of town.

It's dangerous but everyone I know is determined to stay.

The US military machine has to have the rest of the world's despots and dictators quaking in their boots.

One of the most vile and dangerous regimes has all but been eradicated, with a total bodycount of what? A couple thousand (friendly soldiers + collateral damage)?

To inflict such a loss, at such a relatively small cost is an unbelievable accomplishment. Genaral Franks is to be commended.

To Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan, Scott McConnell, Maureen Dowd, Mark Shields, Terry Moran, Helen Thomas, Eleanor Clift, Peter Jennings, et al (you know who you are) eat s@#$ and die!

Liberation of Iraq, In my Name, Yes!
Liberation of North Korea, In my Name, Yes!

Liberation, Yes!

Peter

Thank you GWB, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, and even Powell. You may not have done it in Martin Sheen's name, but you definitely did it in my name!

I just called the Whitehouse and told them EXACTLY that. The operator laughed and said she would give the message to the president. I know, I know...it's probably going to some central warehouse of positive responses. But at least Bush will see how many positives there were and mine was one.

Call the Whitehouse now and thank our commander-in-chief.

202-456-1111

The reasons why there are so many anti-types out there is that they have forgotten the lessons history has taught the rest of us. Make no mistake, they will forget or simply refuse to accept the truth.

Our obligation is to remember. Remember how and why this all happened. And remember each and every idiot out there and NEVER stop holding them reponsible for their own ignorance. Those of us on the right side of history see this as a defining moment, and it is. People had to take a stand and in doing so have exposed themselves clearly for what they are.

There is much work yet to be done. DO NOT FORGET.

I wish to thank President George W. Bush for not backing down and doing what is right. I thank the US and Coalition Forces who have given the ultimate sacrifice so that Iraq can be free. I thank those Troops who will soon be returning home to their grateful family and friends for your service. You have made us proud!

in my name,
Albert Alcoba
Seattle Washington

Can I get an AMEN brother !!!!!

hey mommydoc are the checks gonna start coming now?
heh
HG

Hear, hear!!!

I went on my own "IN OUR NAME" tirade against the Sept. 10th Movement at the beginning of the war.

Now, I simply stand in shock and awe of the ability, selflessiness, and honor of the Coalition troops.

Does anyone on this board ever stop preaching to the choir?

It would be a waste of everyone's time to try and refute all the inaccuracies here, except to say that if you think everyone who was opposed to this conflict "hates America" and was driven by ignorance rather than honestly held belief, you're a jingoistic pinhead.

And we won’t forget where you stood, in your ignorance and fashon-driven hatred of America. We won’t forget.

Ah, but what will you do about it?

I think they audit your taxes if you call the white house,
I heard that anyway.

#37,

It is not in my name, for all I did was write about it

I think conventional wisdom says that America can win any war it undertakes provided its military has the support of the American people. If not that, we surely can't win a war without that support.

So every one of us who supported it, every one of us who debated it, who did research, who may have even persuaded one or two people (as I, and I'm sure many of us did) has a hand in this. We, the American people who supported our troops, have a hand in this. In all of our names. Including especially, yes, the Iraqis who assisted the U.S., who were manly enough to lay down their arms and all those who've suffered under Saddam's yoke.

But not in Susan Sarandon's name.

As a member of the people for whom this war was fought (the Jews, of course) I rejoice that Iraqi freedom from tyranny, torture and oppression has blinded them to our purposes....bwuhahahahahaha

These pitiful fools should be serving Arafat not parading in the streets for Western cameras...bwuhahahahah

At Reagan's library they feature a big chunk of the Berlin Wall.
What shall we feature at Dubya's library?

Wild Justice: The answer to "how do you feel about drilling in Alaska" is "Um, I'm not sure. Is this a proposition?"

Oh, "US WANKERS" will be back to bite off your legs.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

Can we call it a draw?

praise God!

Yes, In our name

Heh, there was a pro-american protest here in Vancouver, Canada one and a half weeks ago, and this was exactly the sign (Yes, in our name) that my wife and I was carrying.

Vilmos

If you want to tell the anti-American left and a few assorted Islamists how you feel, go to:

[Link: www.c-span.org...]

and join the "community" discussion.

Based on C-SPAN's discussion forum, you would think the 15% of Americans who opposed US action are somehow the majority.

Of course, they blame all of the world's ills on "Bu$h," Israel, and the NeoCon/Jewish conspiracy.

And when you tell them where to shove it, say I said "Hi." I was banned by "Community Manager" for exposing their rabid anti-Semitism

I emailed a friend this:

Yesterday I read a report about more than 100 children being released from a Baghdad prison. A children's prison.

Today I saw a shot of two Iraqis carrying one of the banners that had been held by human shields. They'd modified it to read: GO HOME HUMAN SHIELDS YOU U.S. WANKERS.

And I swear when I watched that video of Saddam's statue in downtown Baghdad being toppled, I felt the same feeling as when I saw the first shots of the Berlin Wall coming down.

Then I logged on to [an online site I'm a member of].

I read a post saying, "Well, we've got our 'sight bite.' It's going to be played and replayed, and on the cover of every newspaper and magazine."

I saw handwringing over the journalists killed at the hotel. Despite the fact that since then it's disputable, highly, that the US tank shell was what killed them.

I read lots of anger at the civilians killed.

That one is rightfully so, I'll admit.

I read Dowd's Times coulmn. All of a sudden she's saying "We knew all along we were going to win." She closes by stating that the "business with Osama" still isn't settled.

I really don't get all this whining. Yes, people have died. And it's sad, but it's NOT senseless. Just look at the people celebrating in Iraq. Listen to what some of them are saying. Sure, this war is far from over. But, goddamn, why aren't the antis able to be happy about this one aspect? People are realizing they are now free, at least freer than they ever have been. Who cares what you think of the war; can't you be glad about this?

My friend had a good response:

For some people, it's just more important that the US be wrong -- or that their anti-US argument be proven right. It matters more to them than what the Iraqi people want. What Hitch said about Noam, post 9/11, applies to the handwringers: It no longer matters what they think.

Enjoy this moment. The Iraqis have been liberated from one of the world's worst dictators and terror states. Savor this. It is the right thing, regardless of how we got here. Sometimes, the right thing is just the right thing.

But tomorrow and the day after, let's be sober and realistic --- those of us who actually care about the Iraqis, and don't just hate the US (or those hawks who don't care either): There is much work to be done. Euphoria may soon turn to revenge killing. There is also the matter of Tikrit. And we must make sure people are fed and getting medicine.... Now the real work begins. And it will be hard, perilous work. Beware the intoxicating temptations of triumphalism.

But it is very important in life to savor the moment, and see it for what it is. And enjoy it and feel good about it.

Then, let's make sure our government makes good on its best promises to Iraq and the Middle East. If idealists (and I consider myself one) care about humanity, and not just venting anti-Bush sentiments, then they will turn their energies to ensuring the best outcome.

I thought about Berlin too.

#42 Joel

WTF is Chris Matthews doing in that list? I watch the guy nightly and sometimes wonder if I'm not watching FOX. Perhaps you meant Aaron Brown, from CNN?

I'm not even going to address that overwrought tripe that Arnett wrote.

Frankly, I'm glad that we have protestors. We need to have intelligent discourse in this country, because no decision should ever go unquestioned.

Having said that, the childish name calling, the hyperinflated blame throwing, and the willful ignorance of the vast majority of the protestors turns my stomach.

I suppose that I'd be satisfied if just ONE of those high-profile duct tape wearing loudmouths would say that they honestly were wrong to try to prevent this. It won't happen.

One last thing Sarandon: "V" is for VICTORY!!!

Looks like Bigal's having a bad day.

#9

"REELECT BUSH"

I want to caution that if Bush forces the "Roadmap" down Israel's throat, then he has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

JG

Dark days were plenty, never-ending sorrow, only the past with uncertain tomorrow

Oh God the pain that I've been going through
Raining in my heart, to my emotional rescue

I used to be, so far from life, no one could help me, not even my wife

Oh God the pain that I've been going through
Raining in my heart, to my emotional rescue

Happy days are here again, the sky is blue and clear again
Everybody I talk to says, man you're looking cool

Nature, oh nature, is slow to heal
Nature, oh nature, please let me feel
When he walked.......when he walked

Oh my gosh, happy days are here again
I can see the twinkle in the people's eyes
Goodbye blues, happy days are here again
Spread it good, spread it good, spread it good, good, good

Oh my gosh, happy days are here again
I can see the twinkle in the people's eyes
Goodbye blues, happy days are here again
Spread it good, spread it good, spread it good, good, good

-- Brian Wilson, "Happy Days"

The pictures today remind me of the Iraqi, weeks ago, who said "What took you so long?"

Ask the French.

At Reagan's library they feature a big chunk of the Berlin Wall. What shall we feature at Dubya's library?

Bugs(#53)--How about a couple of the American flags U.S. troops weren't allowed to raise in Iraq for fear that it might anger the Arab world?

At Reagan's library they feature a big chunk of the Berlin Wall.
What shall we feature at Dubya's library?

A badly beaten, dismembered statue of Saddam Hussein and a chunk of Tora Bora.

(Better than a stained dress.)

Looks like Bigal's having a bad day.

Poor Bigal. He so wanted a quagmire. It's not fair! ~{pout}~

Thank you Charles for giving us a place to show support for our troops and our nation.

I'll toast to that!

On a slightly related note, don't you think the folks at AbuDhabi, SaudiTimes, Gulf News, etc would care to report about this momentous day for Iraqis? Of course not! It's only frenzy-whippin' victimhood they're interested in. Iraqis better remember where their Arab "brothers" stood and still stand.

[Link: www.abudhabi.com...]
Headlines: Palestinians to create post of prime minister, 2 are killed as shootout erupts in West Bank, - nothing on Iraq

[Link: www.gulfnews.com...]
Headlines: Kuwait salutes Zayed's initiative, U.S. forces tighten grip, .. - no mention of cheering Iraqis

[Link: sauditimes.com...]
Headlines: Arab League chief to meet Annan on UN role in post-war Iraq, War unlikely to end with defining moment

Typical.

Charles,

Thanks for a great place where those of us not nearly as brave or heroic as our troops can come to exchange information and opinions.

May God bless the Iraqi people and those who selflessly sacrifice to liberate them from truly horrendus tyranny.

Good one Charles.....please iclude my AMEN.

In my name.

Ron Clouse
New York City

This is a world-historical time.

The scenes are incredible, the vibe of freedom is soaring, and a tremendous new era is opening. The time of the Iraqis' redemption from terror is at hand (not an original phrase; the Lubavicher Rebbe used it in reference to Israel in the Gulf War One). This thread could be the most important in LGF's history, because it represents the realization of hopes and determination of the posters. Some random thoughts:

1. Thank you, Charles, for this unique site and service. The sense of fellowship among readers, the passion of the debates, and the moral vision are very important to me. We don't know each other, but I feel I am among friends and colleagues here.

2. The ideas in this particular thread are remarkable. If they have any moral fiber at all, Sean Penn, Susan Saddam Sarandon, Babs Streisand, Michael Moore and others will be on the next plane to Baghdad to see just what they were defending. I'm not holding my breath.

3. While the War on Terror is still in the early phases, President Bush has shown himself to be The Essential Man in planning and executing our response to 9/11 and the acts before it. He truly does have a will of iron, equivalent to a Lincoln or Churchill, and no amount of idiotic carping about his intellect or religion can change my views on that. I cannot hear him speak without having chills run down my back at the audacity, force and coherence of his vision for prosecuting this battle. He is a president who baffles his opponents by doing exactly what he says he is going to do.

4. I would not want to be a leader in Syria or Iran right now, nor Arafish. They now have indisputable proof that the fateful lightning from the terrible swift sword of American resolve is more than willing to strike them.

5. I would not want to be part of the Democratic National Committee at the moment.

All honor to the American military, and to those who gave their lives that others may live in freedom.

Bigal,

You're the same person who came here yesterday and said:

"There ain't a single one of you on this board who are as concerned with the plight of the poor, repressed Iraqis, and you all know it."

And I gave you my reply. (Which did NOT elicit a response from you.)

Now you've got the gall to say, "It would be a waste of everyone's time to try and refute all the inaccuracies here."

What's with you?

Apparently our campaign in Iraq has not won over the "hearts and minds" of everyone in Iraq.

"This is the destruction of Islam. After all, Iraq is our country. And what about all the women and children who died in the bombing?" said 50-year-old Qassim al-Shamari, a laborer wearing a beige Arab robe.

Ahhhh, well. What can you do? It's a free country.

Maybe Michael Moore will make a movie about the Iraqi Information Minister.

"What was the Information Minister doing just before Saddam got blasted by those Bunker Buster bombs? He was bowling."

Michael Moore Presents

A Fictitious Production.

Bowling for Saddam

# 49

No, you don’t hate America. You just want it to be run the way YOU think it should be, and make the rest of us who disagree conform.

Never.

Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? Not that you fascist lefties would ever admit it. Go back where you came from and preach to your own choir. No blood for oiiilll! Jingoism!!!! Simple minded buzzwords and slogans!!!

And we won’t forget where you stood, in your ignorance and fashion-driven hatred of America. We won’t forget.

Gee, is that some sort of veiled threat?
Let me just say that Canada is sooooooo scared of you right now.
(LOL)

Yes! In my name, and in the names of all the now-free Iraqi people, and in the names of all those who fought and died (and who may yet die) to free Iraq of that monster.

And most assuredly not in the name of the Hollywood leftist idiots!

#68: Poor Bigal. He so wanted a quagmire. It's not fair! ~{pout}~

Ah, yes. You nailed it right on the head. Damn, why couldn't more Americans die? My gosh, can't we all see how virtuous Saddam Hussein really is?

Right.

See, because anyone who was against all of this really does hate America. Ought to be tossed in jail, in fact. Just like you folks have been saying all along.

In fact, that's what the veiled threat - "We won't forget" - is all about, right?

exactly. to celebrate I'm sending off for one of your T-shirts, Charles.

On to Damascus!

amen Charles.

#80 canucki/VFI pick a name and stick with it will ya.
And I'd love to close the border and let you starve, parasite.

The Iraqis may end up being better allies than the French, they could not be worse allies or worse friends.

The list of losers here is much longer than the winners.

The big winner is the Iraqi people. Let us give them room to grow and prosper, all we ask is that the profits they earn are not used to murder us or fund terror.

Let me just say that Canada is sooooooo scared of you right now.

Relax, Stan. We know you are irrelevant. You know you are irrelevant. No worries.

Yes, this in done in my name. I support the troops.

That Peter Arnette article is trash.

Kevin Buchanan: -- Brian Wilson, "Happy Days"
I thought that song went, Sunday, Monday, Happy Days...

#44 - I just called the White House and left a message expessing my gratitude to President Bush and his team and to our troops. Thanks for the number.

Thank God we have a president with a spine of steel - I'm watching Iraqis kissing his picture right now. I saw Iraqis in Dearborn, MI, kissing the American flag. We are witnessing an enormous and historic change in the world.

#54 Robert Crawford

Good one! I give you my word, anyone who mentions Alaska today gets a poke in the eye.

There is a time to dance. And that day is today.

#76: Now you've got the gall to say, "It would be a waste of everyone's time to try and refute all the inaccuracies here."

What's with you?

Well, I do try to spend the evening with my family. Some things are more important than posting, you know.

I'd gladly explain why the broad brush with which many on this board are painting the "anti-war" crowd isn't necessarily correct. But, all that will get is a Homer Simpson-esque "Ha ha, IN YOUR FACE!"

This ain't exactly a marketplace of diverse ideas, after all. Which is why I come here - to see what you folks are saying. Any of you guys ever take some lumps on the other side?

Only one country on earth has the power, vision and will to end an evil as large as the regime of Saddam Hussein. What we saw today was not just a victory for the U.S, or a victory for Iraq, but a victory for the world. Freedom is something that every person on earth deserves, and today the best and bravest from among some of the most fortunate people on earth brought the beginnings of life to some of the least fortunate.

We can't fix everything at once, and we may make missteps along the way, but slowly, surely, resolutely we will spread the gift of freedom. Get behind this vision- this is the hope of the world.

Thank you President Bush. Thank you to our troops, and thank you to everyone who worked hard to do this in the best possible way. Of course we think of all casualties among our troops and Iraqi civilians. I'm grateful to all these people.

For all the naysayers, what a sad bunch of unprincipled morally bankrupt useful idiots. Your stance is a sickness. Reconsider your path.

-----Brian

Well said Charles, and well said Ladyhawk.

Perhaps we can show Susan Sarandon's "Not in our Name" commercial with scenes of liberation and torture chambers playing in the background.

The last year has been an incredible roller coaster at LGF: Will we go into Iraq? Will Bush cave? Will the French, Germans, Russians, and the UN torpedo Iraqi freedom? Will the peace movement ever stop its pro-Saddam demonstrations? and much, much more.

I can hardly believe that what we have all been advocating (except for the not-in-our-namers like Deacon Frost, view from Ireland, Oliver Willis, John Bradley, et alia) has actually taken place.

I'm thrilled. Thrilled with our troops. With our defense secretary. With our joint chiefs chairmen. With our vice president. And with our president.

Thanks to many warbloggers are also owed for keeping our spirits up during the darkest days when this action seemed like it would never take place. Thanks especially to Charles for his clarity.

Fantastic page of quotes from Arab media on the fall of Baghdad, via the BBC. (Some are even positive!)

Here's my favorite, from Abu Dhabi TV:

This is a moment of history. Baghdad people must be feeling sad at witnessing the fall of their capital... Baghdad has been offered on a silver plate.

Funny--they don't look sad.

The rifle barrels aren't haven't even colled yet in Iraq, and already the British and french are cuddling up to one another, and findng common cause. If there's one thing they agree on, it's Israel as the justifiable source of arab anger.

One battle over, pretty much, another battle against the idiots about to begin.

If by "irrelevant" you mean that Canada provides more oil to the US than does Saudi Arabia, then I guess Canada's irrelevant.

The United States imports more oil (including crude oil and petroleum products) from Canada than from any other country.

Irrelevant my arse!

#82 Bigal

"We won't forget" is not a veiled threat, it is an implied outcome. I will give you some examples.

I will never patronize the following sponsors of the protests here in Austin, such as:

Mojo’s Daily Grind

Café Mundi

San Jose Hotel

Austin Motel

Marakesh

Habana

Jo’s Coffee

Clay Pit

World Beat Café

East Side Café

El Sol Y La Luna

Las Manitas

That is not a threat, that is a vote with your wallet!

Amen, Charles.

Thank-you, Charles. Well said! What a historic day! This is truly as monumental and historic as getting rid of Hitler and the Nazi and makes all those late nights pounding the keyboard and all those arguments and hording links to back-up arguments with the unreasonable worth it.

This victory by the US and their Coalition partners is FOR the Iraqi people IN OUR NAME! And we're proud to own it and proud of those who fought for and got it for the Iraqi people.

Martin Sheen--eat shit!

But this war is in the protestors names because the war was being fought for freedom, right? Including freedom of speech.

I am so pleased for these days. I (and many others) predicted these events. This clearly is a fight for freedom, and democracy. You damn lefties were clearly wrong, but we will never hear an apology.

But, I predict a poor future. The lefties who didn't vote in the last election are awake now. Common sense and morality will not sway them from their mission. They will come out in record numbers to vote in the next election and we will see a democrate majority government.

All the good that has been done will be abandoned. Our troops will be withdrawn and the people of Iraq will once again be subjected to tyranny.

I pray things will be different, but history supports my position. Remember Billy Clinton. His bandaid diplomacy has caused a lot of damage, and he was elected after G. Bush Sr.

Welcome to the tetter totter politics.

#100: But this war is in the protestors names because the war was being fought for freedom, right? Including freedom of speech.

Obviously, you haven't been paying attention.

Bigal,

You mentioned the other side. Could you give me a few links so i can see what their views are? Thnx

#96

Lets see how irrelevant canada becomes once the Iraqi oil starts flowing in.

awwww, I hope the US government doesn't decide to cut canadian oil off as payback for your country's anti-US stance. only time will tell.

Shame on you, Michael Moore, shame on you.

And any time you got 10 million Iraqis and the majority of the American public against you, your time is up.

I have NEVER in my 41 years been more proud of my country, my president and my nation's armed forces. To be selfless is one thing, but to do what is right in the face of rabid opposition even from those that call themselves our "friends" is even more courageous.

Bravo Mr. Bush!! Bravo Mr. Blair!! Bravo Coalition!! The most heartfelt thanks to all of the military personnel that made this possible!! You made a grumpy old man cry tears of joy!

I agree that it's appropriate to have "a brief moment of jubilation". Enough time tomorrow to bash the trolls, worry about the no-good Frogs or consider Martin Kramer's pessimistic take. Today was a good day.

Thanks, Charles, for keeping this site going.

[My script with notes to myself for tonight's broadcast. Do not post on LGF.]

[Dum-da-dum, "...With Peter Jennings!!" I love that part! :) It gives me the biggest w**die]

First tonight, a momentous occassion:

[Look up slowly, standard facial expression #43, 'Gleeful concern']

We turn to Puxcatawny, New Jersey, where the groundhog known as Puxcatawny Phil has been holed up for weeks now.

[Note to me: lean forward here]

You are all aware that President Buuuuusssssh noted that we will have a quick spring this year. However while he was saying this, Puxcatawny Phil had other ideas.

Phil has remained ... in his hole ..., unwilling to show his face. And who can blame him, for his reluctance to associate with ... the Buuuussssh illegal regime. [Rub index and second fingers together on camera. Annoying, but it makes me look conflicted]

And who can say that he is not totally right to avoid even the appearance of conflict. The snows in DC ... are a fact. The weather ... is a fact. Yet some would have us believe ... [I act shocked here. No, maybe disbelief. I'm not sure, just wing it, Peter!!] that weather can change without human interference.

[Look down at papers, as I gather my strength]
How can we live with this kind of disappointment? As questions are raised, exactly when did Buuuusssshhh know that spring was not here, and why did he mask his administration's failure to prepare us for the albino brain chiggers that threaten us all. Especially coiffed newsreaders! This Canadian remains puzzled, for one.

I'm Peter Jennings, and I've told you everything I thought you should know.

[Look at papers again. Theme music. Nailed another one, Peter! You the man!!]

[end]

Somebody please pay attention to Canada. As evidenced by Canucki Stan above, they are trolling for some.

YOU'VE GOT OIL. WE PAY GOOD MONEY FOR IT. IF WE STOPPED PAYING YOU FOR IT, YOUR ECONOMY WOULD PROBABLY COLLAPSE. Thank you so much for taking our money. Otherwise, you are irrlevant.

Now, are you happy?

#103: You mentioned the other side. Could you give me a few links so i can see what their views are?

Try the Columbia Political Review, for one. Tom Tomorrow for another. Or just spend some time on the MetaFilter board, where sharp firefights are relatively common on these issues.

Bigal,

Thanx for the links.

Why are Canucki Stan and Bigal so upset over "we won't forget"?

For crissake, the loony left has been milking McCarthy's idiocy for decades -- they haven't forgotten that. Why should we forget their idiocy?

Heh, the US could cut off Canadian oil imports... then we'd have to do something silly like legalize marijuana. Then we'd go from exporting crude oil to exporting hash oil.

What do you think... could we find American buyers for marijuana?

Oh sorry, I forgot, pot is illegal in the US... it's impossible to find Canadian weed down there (snicker).

#37--

Amen to what you said. You were faster than I was in posting.

#49--

It would be a waste of everyone's time to try and refute all the inaccuracies here, except to say that if you think everyone who was opposed to this conflict "hates America" and was driven by ignorance rather than honestly held belief, you're a jingoistic pinhead.

Quite a few of them were driven by ignorance, delusion, magical thinking, call it what you will. When they attended "peace protests" and didn't tell the idiots to put away signs equating Bush to Hitler, yeah, I call that being slightly anti-American (not to mention insulting to the memory of Hitler's victims.....all approximately 12 million in the camps, among others on the battlefields and in bombed out cities and towns. I put all that blood on his hands.).

When they kept calling for Bush and Blair to not invade, yet never carried a sign calling for Saddam to step down or disarm, yeah, I call that stupid.

When they carried signs calling for "Chirac for President in '04" like they did in New York a month ago, yeah, I call that ignorant. If he and de Villepin would have supported a definite deadline to disarm, maybe war could have been avoided. Or did you miss that interview of UN weapons inspectors in Die Zeit, claiming that the minute the French came out with that position, all cooperation with them ceased?

If all of the above makes me a jingoistic pinhead, well, that's something this liberal-leaning girl has never been called before. I kinda like it!

BTW--I'm liberal in the real old school version of it, as in way before PC. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.....NOT!!! This is a marketplace of ideas in the truest sense of the word. If your ideas get trampled here, maybe you should articulate them better next time. Or try logic.

I love the mentality here.. "We love freedom, but if you don't agree with me 100% you are WORTHLESS!!!!!"

#96 Canucki Stan

The United States imports more oil (including crude oil and petroleum products) from Canada than from any other country.

Canuckistan, would you please stop making shit up. Yes, the U.S. does import a lot of oil from Canada, but NO, not more than from any other country. Canada is usually third and sometimes fourth. Follow the link.

U.S. Oil Imports...

Only slightly OT: The Good People of Dearborn, Michigan are having one heck of a party today!

Wonder if the phrase "9th of April" will ring in the hearts of Iraqis like "4th of July" does for Americans?

According to HollwoodHalfWits.com

Win Without War signers: [Link: hollywoodhalfwits.com...]

Not In Our Name signers:
[Link: hollywoodhalfwits.com...]

Yippee!!!! What an amazing sight to witness. My heart is filled with joy for the Iraqi people and bursting with pride at the bravery and goodness of our servicemen and women. And while we know there may be some tough times still ahead, today is one to truly celebrate!

p.s. To Jacques, Gerhard, Vladimir and Kofi. I will happily give up my tax cut to pay for post war reconstruction if it will prevent you backstabbing assholes from having any say in what comes next.

This is a touching letter. All of you behind your computers safe at home should take those sticks out of your asses after reading this.

[8K of badly formatted garbage deleted]

#29

I know exactly what you mean, and thankfully he didn't shrug.

Besides, Rumsfeld always has the best lines: "Going to war without France is like going hunting without your accordion."

When's the last time you hear ANYONE inside the beltway speak so plainly?

And...FINALLY!!!! [continuing daylong dance of joy]

#113: Sorry if I hurt your feelings.....NOT!!!

Sister, if it were possible for you to hurt my feelings I wouldn't be on this board in the first place.

This is a marketplace of ideas in the truest sense of the word.

Ahahahahahahahahahaha

Come on over to MeFi, I'll be waiting for you.

#115 kayawanee
I got my statistic from the actual US Department of Energy site (doe.gov).

Your statistic is correct for crude oil. When combining crude AND refined, Canada is #1.

Link is here:
[Link: www.eia.doe.gov...]

From January through August 2002, the United States imported more oil (including crude oil and petroleum products) from Canada than from any other country....

This makes Canada the top petroleum supplier to the United States and the third-largest supplier of crude oil imports (behind Saudi Arabia and Mexico, and ahead of Venezuela). Canada has been the top supplier to the United States of refined petroleum products, including gasoline, jet fuel, distillate, etc., over the past few years.

I expect those "not in our name" folks to try to wiggle out of this, we shouldn't let them. I am prepared to take the responsibility and the kudos we should not let them wiggle out of their responsiblity and their shame.

Oh, Bigal, give it a rest. Nobody is preaching to the choir - we're just happy, and we feel vindicated. WE know the war isn't over; we're just glad to see the Iraqi people that "we don't care about" getting a tiny taste of freedom and joy. Is that too much to ask you to understand?

I don't get why you're here in the first place (on this thread, I mean, not on the board as a whole). You had to know that this is what you would find here - but I guess you just could not STAND the thought of us LGF'ers enjoying some well-earned self-congratulation without a Voice of Doom to keep us in check. We *were* right, after all - the Iraqis *do* want us there - at least right now. But we know you'll never see or admit that. Anyway, there'll be plenty of time when the dust settles for you to start calling us names again.

Give it a REST, homey. At least for the afternoon. It's just good manners.

OT, but I have to vent. I just set through the lecture in American history class here at Berkeley. The lecture was suppposed to be on WW2, but it was something generalized about bombings in the 20th century. Grrr.... I'm a TA, though, and I get to explain to my students what's wrong witth this approach. grrr....

#115, Kaywanee,

Don't worry about the Canuckistan oil. Most of it is in Alberta, whose population despises the Ottawa twits and many of whom in fact would like to secede from the Canadian federation.

The Alberta governor sent a pro-US message to Bush a while back basically disassociating himself from the attitudes of the Cretin regime.

So relax, feel free to pump all the Alberta gas you want. :))

#124: We *were* right, after all - the Iraqis *do* want us there - at least right now. But we know you'll never see or admit that.

No, I will admit that freely. Shout it from the rooftops: One who opposed this conflict sees and knows that many if not the majority of Iraqis are ecstatic upon being liberated from beneath the bootheel of Saddam Hussein.

Is this a good thing? You betcha. It's a fantastic thing. Which goes to the heart of why I'm trolling here: because you (in the collective) have the idea that anyone who opposed this war has to be pissed off that the Iraqis in Baghdad have welcomed us.

Not so.

to the "persecuted" left, take a chill pill. Try to enjoy the freedom that American might has bought you as the Iraqi people are today.

You're right, tom tomorrow is a good representation of the left.

If one accepts that our primary purpose in Iraq is the liberation of an oppressed people, it looks like we may have some work ahead of us.

Wow, that's a profound statement of dissent.
Here's a quote from metafilter.

Three journalists in the Palestine Hotel -- which is known as many reporters' base in Baghdad -- have died after the building was bombed by U.S. forces. Simultaneously, U.S. forces hit Al-Jazeera's Abu Dhabi offices with a missle. Officials claim that they were responding to sniper fire, but journalists dispute the claim. Some journalists believe that this was a deliberate attack. Is the U.S. making good on their threat to "target down" journalists?

metafilter sucks
they quoted that poll that Americans think iraq is linked to 9/11, even though there are holes in that poll

when they're not bitching about pearl jam and police mistreatment of protestors, they're...actually that's pretty much all they do

#121 Bigal

MeFi is a cesspool of elitists. I stopped visiting when it seemed every damn conversation was hijacked by the self-imposed MeFi police, and reduced to a "this post doesn't meet the MeFi standards", or "hey idiot, this was posted already, you should have done a search".

Waste of time.

Oh sure, now you wingnuts claim to "care" about "imprisoned" "children" in "liberated" "Iraq". But just exactly where were all you jackbooted, bloodthirsty McCarthyite thugs when Bull Conner was unleashing rottweilers on toddlers in Selma? When American children were choking on Globalist Happy Meal toys? When the Olsen Twins were cheated out of royalty checks for "Mary Kate and Ashley's Hawaii Caper"?

Well?

Hmm?

Hmmmmm?

Hmm hmm hmm?

Hah. I thought so.

Now that I have deftly shamed you warmongering hypocrites, I must saunter proudly off to another seminar at The Progressive Sanctimony Institute.

Mister Lefty?

Mister Liberal A. Lefty?

You're a dick. A complete and utter dork. An asshole. You were utterly wrong.

I just thought you'd like to know before you went.

:)

#130: MeFi is a cesspool of elitists. I stopped visiting when it seemed every damn conversation was hijacked by the self-imposed MeFi police, and reduced to a "this post doesn't meet the MeFi standards", or "hey idiot, this was posted already, you should have done a search".

They can be pretty harsh. But if you can avoid stepping on such mines, the discussions get fairly interesting - with both sides formidably represented.

How about to the nose-in-the-air and white-knuckled right, stop watching coverage of the war and blogging about how much the left sucks.

go pick some flowers

Those who protested under the banner "Not In Our Name" wanted no blame for the results of the war. So be it. Every torture center that would have gone on operating is their legacy. Every gold-leaf palace toilet and each dirt-poor Shiite is theirs to take pride in. We, however, will shoulder the burden and risk of building something better.

Pointing this out will be considered crass and inappropriate, but if people can be shamed out of stupid ideas, they should be.

Not In Our Name banners covered many people with varying, but specific beliefs: in the U.N. and the idea of world government; anti-Americanism; socialism; anti-Semitism; militant Islam; conspiracies of oil corporations or military-industrial complexes. Laughable ideas all, if they weren't so dangerous.

Moral nations should NEVER relinquish their right to act unilaterally to free others; Just as moral men should never allow their individual rights to be taken away.

roll out: why are you wasting our space with 8K of badly formatted crap? If it's so important to you, post a link. Do that again and I'll ban you.

Bigal:

Is this a good thing? You betcha. It's a fantastic thing. Which goes to the heart of why I'm trolling here: because you (in the collective) have the idea that anyone who opposed this war has to be pissed off that the Iraqis in Baghdad have welcomed us.

Maybe you’re happy about it, but a lot of your fellow travelers are furious because they hate the President, hate Republicans, hate conservatives of all stripes, hate capitalism, hate the military, and to hell with the Iraqis. If you deny that, you’re being willfully blind, or you are lying.

“The collective” Cute sneer. Now go back to your home blog and shriek about how stupid President Bush is.

PS: Cheer up. You folks can mock and sneer through the whole reconstruction process. You’ve got that to look forward to.

Question from one of the Special Education students:

Does anyone on this board ever stop preaching to the choir?

Sometimes I sing to the choir:

Idiotarian Hymn

[To the tune of "Don't Know Much About History"]

Don't know much about Theology,
Don't know much Scientology.
Don't know much about the I Ching book,
Don't know much about those pills I took.

But I do know Islam means "peace",
And if the Zionists would let it be
What a wonderful place Gaza would be.
Oh yeah ...
What a wonderful place it would be.
Oh la la la la la la ...
For wonderful persons like me.

Charles, wow, I see I brought myself to your attention. I beg to differ that I was "wasting space", it was a provocative letter with an important message. If you don't want people posting a lot and wasting space, you ought to make limits to how much can be posted. What is a better format I could have used? Thanks for your patience with me. I promise not to wasted more space. Although you may think that by posting this, I have just done so...

Bush library. Well, people will make lots of jokes about that when the time comes, won't they? Or will they?

Anyway, my suggestion: a part of the WTC, those very recognizable lattice-work chunks on the ground floor -- and the story book he was reading to the school kids when he was told of the attack...

#138: Maybe you’re happy about it, but a lot of your fellow travelers are furious because they hate the President, hate Republicans, hate conservatives of all stripes, hate capitalism, hate the military, and to hell with the Iraqis. If you deny that, you’re being willfully blind, or you are lying.

No, I'll grant you that, Emmett, but the problem comes when you attribute such feelings to everyone who has opposed this war. Again, you're painting with a broad brush, feeling certain that everyone who holds a view on the opposite side of the fence is necessarily motivated by a certain mindset, and that is just not the case.

PS: Cheer up. You folks can mock and sneer through the whole reconstruction process. You’ve got that to look forward to.

And I hope, I truly and fervently hope, that the enthusiasm of the right for remaking Iraq does not dissipate as the heavy lifting of nation-building commences.

I wish the ad-hominems against Canada and Canadians would stop. Sure, Chretien is a jerk, sure some (many?) Canadians are too. But many are not. We could not have a better neighbor to our north than 30 million Canadians.

Attack the poster not the country. Whoops, I mean attack the post. ;-)

metacrapper:

Try Little Green Footballs - though most of those folks are merely preaching to the choir and would be pulverized if they stepped out of their little hothouse conservative environment.

And by pulverized, he means annoyed.

Fascinating spin, seeing as how world news sites are also filled today (as they have been for days) with pictures of wounded and dead Iraqi civilians, dead American and Iraqi soldiers, and families grieving over the same.

I guess happy people being freed is spin, the people Saddam kills on a regular basis is also spin, and al jazeera is honest

Anyone looking for the slightest bit of sanity and hope in the Arab world? Try the following fantastic article:

Kuwaitis Overjoyed with Iraqi Liberation

J'

#127 - Gee, bigal, you coulda fooled me. I had no IDEA that you were pleased about today's events.

The board as a collective has expressed a great deal of frustration about anti-war antics. I don't think anyone was upset that people were protesting - that is, after all, the American Way. It is/was the manner in which the protests were carried out that enraged most of the posters that I've read here.

Vomit-Ins. Naked protests. No food to Iraq. We support our troops when they kill their officers. Were we supposed to stand up and salute these moonbats as good examples of the right to free speech? And WHY are we to assume, after all the violent and just downright tasteless protesting, that anti-war folk WOULD be happy to see this day come?

After all, it was not in their name. And that should feel pretty bad. I think you are ignoring some basic psychology.

Can I get an AMEN, fellow right-wing fascist pig-dogs and Bushlickers? Did ANY of you guys think that the lefties would feel pride today? I sure didn't.

49 bigal

"Ah, but what will you do about it?"

What indeed!
How about a complete list of every lie the anti-war crowd babbled?

1-the war is for oil:
1- maybe, but i doubt it. that was the BS propigated lat GW, and it wasn't true then. We shall see pretty soon

2-the war was against the iraqi people:
2-the refution of that LIE in the streets of Bahgdad and other Iraqi cities is what is so SWEET to us here today (sorry I just lurked before today:>)
2-speaking of which, if the anti-war folk were so in support of the iraqi people, where were the human shields in protection of the iraqis the batathshits murderd/raped/tortured/etc ?

2a-iraqi civilians
2a-i think the toal amount of civilian casulties is going to number far less then the total murdered by the regime in the last year alone

3-it would create more terrorism against the us
3-more the 911? more the WTC93? more then the Cole? more then the African embassies? more then etc etc etc. face up to it- these assholes werent going to hate us less for NOT deleting Saddam. Let's see how many ME govts are going to want to get caught caught funding these groups from here on out

4-our "allies" didn't support us
4-no, they were too busy selling saddam weapons and buying his oil

5-the UN didnt support us
5-so a bunch of dictators didnt want to see the U.S. kick the crap out of another dictator. makes me feel so imperialist :(

ill stop here while you find something else to decieve yourself with

63 JG

I dont think that Bush will sell out the Israelis. A Palestinian state does not necessarily mean unending war against the existence of Israel. Bush has a well-known disgust with Arafat. After what we did to the Ba'ath regieme, I think the Palabombers might want to take a serious chill pill. Besides, I can't think of a single Democratic canditate that would be better for Israel.

Already today I've heard from my, ah friends and colleagues:

1) Comparison the destruction of the Saddam statue to the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas by the Taliban (I'm not kidding);

2) A comment along the lines of, "well, the fact that this military victory came so easily proves that Iraq was not a threat"; and

3) Of course... "well, regardless, this was all just WRONG. War never solves anything."

Darn skippy this is in my name, and the name of every other freedom-loving American and ally. I was in Brussels and Amsterdam ten days ago and saw lots of Euro-hippie freaks with Not In My Name stickers. I wanted to get one so I could cut off the 'Not' and wear it with pride. Didn't manage to get one then, but I'm for sure going to get one now so I can wear it around the People's Republic of Cambridge (where I go to school). And all the Saddam-supporting, oppression-enabling, 'peace' activists can go to hell.

God bless America, Iraq, and every other land on this good green earth.

WHY are we to assume, after all the violent and just downright tasteless protesting, that anti-war folk WOULD be happy to see this day come?

Because not all of us are macrobiotic vegans who smell vaguely of patchouli oil and pot smoke.

WHY are we to assume, after all the violent and just downright tasteless protesting, that anti-war folk WOULD be happy to see this day come?

Because not all of us are macrobiotic vegans who smell vaguely of patchouli oil and pot smoke.

Here is a real letter from an genuine actual soldier I received from a friend of a friend whose brother in-law's crack dealer downloaded it from BartCop. Read this, you wingnuts, and try not to cry. I dare you.

Dear Mom:

Here I am with the other army dudes in the desert. The sargent guy tells us that we will stop for the night to await another shipment of the special baby-piercing uranium bullets from Enron, so we can slaughter the next village. After that, we will be assigned to the special Halliburton brigade to take over the oil wells. If the Korporate Media cameras don't get here soon, I don't know if we will ever be able to stage the fake illegal overthrow of Saddam and his fierce resistance fighters.

God Damn that unelected Bushitler! This stupid war could have been evaded, if only the brave patriotic anti-war marchers in Berkeley and New York and Ann Arbor had not been crushed by the Smirking Chimp's fascist goon squads! All me and the other actual soldiers do is complain about being pawns in the the Zionist AmeriKKKan death machine. That, and shoot napalm cannons at orphanages.

Say hi to dad,

Gomer

Here is a real letter from an genuine actual soldier I received from a friend of a friend whose brother in-law's crack dealer downloaded it from BartCop. Read this, you wingnuts, and try not to cry. I dare you.

Dear Mom:

Here I am with the other army dudes in the desert. The sargent guy tells us that we will stop for the night to await another shipment of the special baby-piercing uranium bullets from Enron, so we can slaughter the next village. After that, we will be assigned to the special Halliburton brigade to take over the oil wells. If the Korporate Media cameras don't get here soon, I don't know if we will ever be able to stage the fake illegal overthrow of Saddam and his fierce resistance fighters.

God Damn that unelected Bushitler! This stupid war could have been evaded, if only the brave patriotic anti-war marchers in Berkeley and New York and Ann Arbor had not been crushed by the Smirking Chimp's fascist goon squads! All me and the other actual soldiers do is complain about being pawns in the the Zionist AmeriKKKan death machine. That, and shoot napalm cannons at orphanages.

Say hi to dad,

Gomer

Bigal:

Again, you're painting with a broad brush, feeling certain that everyone who holds a view on the opposite side of the fence is necessarily motivated by a certain mindset, and that is just not the case.

No, I’m not painting with a broad brush, I am describing the ludicrous, hate-filled street theatre I’ve seen with my own eyes that passes for “peace protests.” Do you deny their motives, these retread Communists, Jew-haters, and moral equivocators? Where are the thinking liberals? Where are their voices? If they are out there, the scum I describe above and the vapid Hollywood millionaire-set have drowned them out.

My own wife was against this war and considered its motives suspect, and she still doesn’t like President Bush. But now she says things like, “Jesus, why didn't we tell the UN to go to hell 1991 and just keep going?” and “Oh, thank God Al Gore isn’t President. He never would have had the spine for this.”

And I hope, I truly and fervently hope, that the enthusiasm of the right for remaking Iraq does not dissipate as the heavy lifting of nation-building commences.

On that point we are in agreement.

The following is the text of an email I just sent to President Bush:

Dear Mr. President,

I just wanted to congratulate you on a historic victory for the United States, Britain and the Iraqi people and to thank you for being so resolute over these past several months. Though you and Prime Minister Blair regularly faced withering criticism both at home and abroad and constant opposition from recalcitrant "allies," not once did you falter. Well done.

I'm proud that you are my President, proud that I voted for you, and very proud to be a Republican, an American and a Texan (albeit living in hostile territory (i.e. New York)).

Best wishes,

Andrew

In my name they went.
In my name they fought.
In my name they won.
In my name they will continue to win.

While TV can show us the the immediate effects of this great victory, the true benefits will never make the headlines.

As Bill Whittle's essay 'History' says so elequently, "I see history as an unimaginably huge and complicated railroad switching yard, where by moving a pair of steel rails a few inches one way or another, the great train of history can be diverted from Chicago to Atlanta. These switches may seem ridiculously small at the time, but the consequences are often immeasurable."

We will never see the Iraqi family having a quiet dinner together, secure in the knowledge that the dreaded knock on the door will never come. We will not see the Iraqi entrepreneurs formulating the business plans that will lift the country into a new age of prosperity. We will not see the first trial, where an objective system of laws and rights will protect an innocent man and punish a guilty one. Most importantly, we will never see Americans lying dead from Iraqi nerve agents or nuclear weapons. As invisible as these events are, they do exist, and their cumulative effect will be staggering, for America and the world.

This fight is not over and will not be for years to come. But this battle has most surely been won and for that I celebrate and stand with reverent awe before the men of intransigence, will and courage that made it so.

May God bless America and may the roots of freedom and security continue to take hold across our world.

One last thing Sarandon: "V" is for VICTORY!!!

Hooah!

Somehow Lefties think it is their right to be insulated from the consequences of their 'causes'. Lemme run it down for them:

Hussein was a torturing, murdering madman.
Your public 'dissent' (read: unintelligent, uninformed carping) kept him secure in his office, so that he could torture and murder more.
Therefore, YOU- the Not in My Name crowd, the "peace-marchers"- should bear YOUR share of the responsibility.
Your position is EXACTLY analogous to the British Pro-Fascist Societies of the Thirties: worshipers and cheerleaders of a mass-murderer.

Taste the ash-heaps of history, Lefties!

Glen Wishard (#139) - I love you.

Can you pen new lyrics to "Dancin' in the Streets, " too?

Dear NIMNies, France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, Belgium, Columbia University and the Democratic Party

I will not forget. I will not forgive.

Don't you love it when "intellectual" anti-war (anti-liberation) protestors try to separate themselves from the majority of the anti-war protestors---communists, hippies, paleocons (and other anti-semitic people), celiberalidiots, ignorati, and leftists?

Priceless

I'm sure quite a few folks will do "a Jenin".

That is, they'll keep very quite once the facts are out, pretending they never said anything in the first place.

Saw the posts of some fellow canucks making asses of themselves with the usual north-of-the-border brand of petty, smug anti-Amercianism. Just wanted to say that we don't all feel like they do. Some of us are damn proud to be your neighbours, and hope that our next government has the balls to apologize for our recent lack of support.

Well-done America !

At least one member of NION is feeling the backlash already. MSNBC is reporting that calls and letters have been flooding in to ABC to protest an upcoming show starring America's most alternative Saddam apologist Janeane Garofalo. Looks like there will be hell to pay if ABC goes ahead with the proposed sitcom. Fans have been flooding the media giant with e-mails and letters to show displeasure at allowing the alternative engeue to profit from the people she thinks are "Stupid". Well, stupid is as stupid does. And perhaps calling your fans in fly-over country stupid is a rather stupid thing to do. Here is my advice Janeane; get a better pair of glasses so you can see the world as it really is.

No, not in my name, how about
their names instead.

Whooah, bigal, who is painting with a broad brush now? All the protestors who have dropped by my blog today to let me know that I "have no right to be happy today because the war was wrong anyway" are hippies who smoke pot and smell of patchouli?

Hmm. Tell that to my old buttondowned college prof, who has never smoked so much as a cigarette in his life, but who is FUMING at me because I have the gall to rejoice when I see happy Iraqis?

You people just can't win today, and it's driving y'all CRAZY.

#161: Don't you love it when "intellectual" anti-war (anti-liberation) protestors try to separate themselves from the majority of the anti-war protestors---communists, hippies, paleocons (and other anti-semitic people), celiberalidiots, ignorati, and leftists?

*smacks forehead with hand*

My God, JKL, you're right! No one could ever hold a principled dissenting opinion! Anyone who objected to this war must harbor secret commie sympathies - or want to re-open Dachau. How could I not have seen?

Thanks for setting me straight.

ok

what is your principled dissenting opinion?

TIM BLAIR as usual, nails it:

I SHOULDN'T be so happy. After all, I'm a right-wing deathbeast, and the end (or near end) of a war should upset me, because we conservatives lust for war all the time. Except when we have to fight it ourselves, of course. Being chickenhawks and all.

And the toppling of a fascist dictator should have me all weepy and nostalgic for Hitler. Because I'm a fascist, according to much of the mail I receive.

Those Iraqis dancing in the streets? That should really piss me off, because I want to oppress them and steal their oil. Why are they even able to dance? I was promised 500,000 murders, yet thus far only 1,000 or so innocents have died.

So why am I so damn happy? I really can't explain.

I'd go and ask some oppression-hating anti-fascist peace activists about it, but for some reason they're all incredibly depressed.

#167 Bigal

Anyone who opposed this war after France announced they would veto any use of force against Iraq effectively opposed the destruction of the Ba'athist regime in Iraq, and opposed the end of the oppression of the Iraqi people by the Ba'athist regime.

I don't care why you opposed it. That's none of my business. The opposition itself was support for the oppression.

Now of course, the left is never wrong, it's the reality that's inaccurate...

Bigal,

And we won’t forget where you stood, in your ignorance and fashon-driven hatred of America. We won’t forget.

Ah, but what will you do about it?

Not what one person will do about it, but what America will collectively do at about it.

#165, To dear friends departed,forever young, thank you for giving meaning to the price of freedom.

167 bigal

ok- here's your chance-

what was the principle you based your opposition to the war on?

and now that you have seen the results of the war, do you think that you were wrong in either assumpitions or expected results?
i.e, have things gone as you expected?

this should be interesting

I could not resist, from the Intl AssWipes:

"On Saturday, April 12, join the tens of thousands of people of conscience [completely obtuse, brainwashed, and uniformed useful idiots with bankrupt consciences… but an obsessive sense of “cool” and always eager for a good social event] who will surround the White House. The whole world is watching to see if the people of the United States can intensify the power of the anti-war movement [anti-Bush circus] at the moment that the Bush Administration [and Blair, with a majority of support in the UK; and Howard, with a majority of support in Australia; and token but specialized Polish and Czech forces with strong public support in their countries; but without Canada, despite 72% of its citizens saying their country ought to support the US-led coalition], and is intending to slaughter tens of thousands of Iraqi people [liberate tens of millions of Iraqi people] and occupy their country [remove the totalitarian hell that has been their existence for two generations, allowing them the chance for self-rule so desperately lacking throughout the region].
We urge every anti-war organizer [pathological Bush hater and hardcore Stalinist sympathizer] and concerned person [delusional fool] to bring your friends [fellow travelers], neighbors [naïve and impressionable 19-year-old wannabes] and family members [rabid anti-Semites] to this all-important mobilization [self-absorbed circle jerk] on April 12."

Note: they fully deserve this, and I am not directing it at everybody who opposed this war, though I do disagree with every one of them vehemently.

I think Dennis Kucinich's presidential aspirations took a big hit today.

Several others as well, I suppose.

Aside from Chris Matthews, I thought MSNBC did a great job of covering the war. But other than that, right on, Charles.

I love the Cowboy President.

All the people that used that as an insult keep forgetting one crucial point: The Cowboy is the good guy!!

This whole mess keeps reminding me strongly of the film "High Noon" with Gary Cooper.

That was forseeable. They had the disadvantage of the illusion, because they effectively argued for regime preservation. They didn't care that Iraqi TV pictured them as pro-Saddam. This was the easy half of the battle for public opinion. The tough part is still to come. Given freedom of speech after all the years of silence, Iraqis could ask questions.

Sanctions kept the Iraqi people in their hell.

On 12 May 1996 Madeleine Albright demonstrated the difficulties involved in admitting the consequences of these sanctions in an appearance on the US television show, 60 Minutes. At the time she was the US ambassador to the United Nations; six months later she became Secretary of State. Host Lesley Stahl, referring to a 1995 figure, asked:

Stahl: "We have heard that a half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. Is the price worth it?"

Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."

Nitwits.

Big Al,

Maybe you're not part of the pot-smoking patchouli bunch. Other than on this board, and by obviously relatively intelligent folk like you, and Deacon Frost, etc., I'm not seeing any intelligent anti-war liberals making a cogent argument. All of the anti-war types I see are carrying Bush=Hitler signs, blocking streets, etc.

For example, Lieberman and Gephardt got booed off the stage at the last Donk fundraiser because they supported this war. And these are leaders in the party.

The conservative argument is this: The liberals were wrong on this one. Dead wrong. We know how evil Hussein is. We also know that people actually travelled to Iraq to act as shields to coalition bombs. We also know that a large majority of these same people believe that Bush is as big or bigger threat than Hussein.

Hate blocks judgment more thoroughly than any emotion. The people I described above can ONLY be motivated by that. Logic has been completely trampled here - they can't see the truth no matter how obvious it is.

TV

Something 179 forgets in his/her/its attempt to blame the whole damn Iraqi problem on the United States:

THEY WERE UN SANCTIONS! APPROVED BY YOUR PRECIOUS ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT BODY!

Nice try, Nimrod.

"Hate blocks judgment...." I like that; I'll have to steal that for future use elsewhere.

Troll in 179,

How can you possibly say that?

Here is what would have happened if sanctions were lifted. Hussein would have gotten richer, he would have developed WMD's even faster since he would have had more capital with which to develop them.

He would have sold those arms to the highest bidder (Syria, Palestinians, North Korea, maybe?), and we would have had an even bigger problem.

The people would still have starved and been tortured. You see, this is what maniacal dictators do. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that.

I'm trip-trip-tripping on your bridge - get back underneath.

TV

Iraqi Ambassador to the UN : "The game is over."

Indeed. April 9, 2003 will go down as a great day in the history of the US and the Middle East.

#173: what was the principle you based your opposition to the war on?

and now that you have seen the results of the war, do you think that you were wrong in either assumpitions or expected results?
i.e, have things gone as you expected?

A three-pronged response to this: (and hey, you asked)

1. I have long believed there is an intellectual and far-reaching argument for this conflict, namely the one advanced by the neoconservatives: that Iraq offered us a chance not only to unseat a muderous thug and free his people, but to plant the seed of democracy, as it were, and push for a reverse domino effect wherein people in other oppressed Middle Eastern countries see that democracy can work and is working in Iraq - and the people there are better off, so they, too, might be better off were they to push for democratic reforms.

But that, I believe, was not the case made to the American public. Instead, the administration and many on the right played up the WMD angle and the oppression angle - important factors in all of this, to be sure, but hardly the whole of the rationale.

I felt, and feel, that the administration has permitted an environment in which 60 percent of those polled can tell the L.A. Times that they think Saddam Hussein was somehow involved in the 9/11 attacks. I'd have supported this from the start of Bush, during a prime-time press conference, had said something to the effect of: Listen, Saddam Hussein wasn't behind 9/11, that we know of, and yes, he's a monster, but there are plenty of other monsters in the world. However, we believe that by getting rid of him, we might remake that entire part of the world - which will, in the long run, be good for America.

2. There is not and has never been any real question of whether America would win this war. I had taken a wait and see attitude when it came to the issue of how the Iraqis really felt about us.

And in fact I believe it's too early to tell whether how they feel now is how they will feel six months from now.

3. Finally, I am leery of creating a world where America annoints itself as the nation that will call the shots. The people on this board may eschew diplomacy and consensus-building, but when America says one thing and the rest of the world - and literally, it was practically the rest of the world - says the opposite, I'm hesitant to ascribe only pure motives to America, and only cynical motives to everyone else.

As a journalist - yes, part of the vast media left-wing conspiracy - I've learned that when you have one person on a mountaintop over here proclaiming that they and only they speak the truth, and another on another mountaintop over there saying the same thing, the truth usually resides somewhere in the valley between them.

#185 Bigal. Do you always think in contrasting plaids,or does your guru help you?

Opinionjournal.com ran this tidbit from the NION nuts on their "Best of the Web" today:

"As we react to the events now taking place in the Iraq, it is important to recognize and respect what many are experiencing, be it anger at the carnage and our inability to stop it, grief for the innocent lives lost, despair over the loss of American ideals and the erosion of freedoms for all, or fear of what lies ahead."

I just want to know what color the sky is in the world they live in.

1) you are not really against this war, you are against how this war was sold to tahe public

2) the response we get from Iraq depends on the Palestine/Israel issue (since all life in the ME revolves around this issue). They are gonna be better off regardless.

3) we are the superpower. we gave diplomacy a shot with North Korea. USA RULES!

#185 said

As a journalist - yes, part of the vast media left-wing conspiracy - I've learned that when you have one person on a mountaintop over here proclaiming that they and only they speak the truth, and another on another mountaintop over there saying the same thing, the truth usually resides somewhere in the valley between them.

It is this attitude -- this assumption that "splitting the difference" will produce something that resembles the truth -- that encourages extremism.

Big Al,

Good cogent points.

I have to say, though, if GWB had come out with that as his reason, the Donks would have trounced, the media would have trounced, the far-out leftist moonbats would have screamed imperialism.

Simply, it wouldn't have flied.

Someone mentioned some stuff about Kant the other day. Something about if you do something for one reason, but there are other good reasons, and good as a whole comes from it, it's worth doing.

I believe that a good leader (I believe that GWB is a good leader) sometimes does things behind the scenes, or sells something for a different reason. If the good that comes from that outweighs the bad, then it was worth doing.

TV

185 bigal

That was a much better response then I expected. So I'll retract a little sarcasm.

1- the neocon argument was the best argument for regieme change; tho we will see about WMD in the near future.
I dont think that Bush could sell the Wilsonian approach to the American public, but he could present an imediate danger that might not be as immediate as presented. In any case, Saddam did enough screwing around with the UN to make himself look guilty AND a present danger.
I don't think the 911 "connection" was enough of a sell to the public compared to the other reasons.
I don't see any problem with the approach that Bush took; it got results.

2- 6 months from now? we are in a whole new world here. It is going to take a whole lot of American effort to make a long term change here. More on this next.

3- a.to begin with, we wern't alone.30-50 countires aided us, and if we took the lion's share of the work, well we have the resources to do it. Which leads me to ..
b. One of the reasons we have to take the lead in world affairs is the combination of amrican moral authority and strength. I am not saying we are pure, but Jeseus Christ, compare us to the Euro's any day and we llok like God Almighty. I wont even talk about the knee-jerk anti-americanism in many countries (been covered) more then this: let these peoiple opposed to the war take a honest look at the things that have happened so far, and they should be ashamed of themselves. Continuing in this vein, I don't think the UN is worth a shit, especially when SC members want to avoid a war so they can cover up sanctions violations.
Damn - gotta go- i needed to put this togaether better-

stupid work:>

#187 mossley. Red, with clouds of black, and a sun that sets in the East.

Wow...! American heroes?!
What kind of heroes are that? Fighting a 3rd world country with hightech weapons. What´s brave about it? These guys are the real whimps. Fighting man against man they are not brave enough. It´s more like Schwarzenegger fighting against Mr. Bean. You guys should not be to proud about this victory. The Iraq people will never love you. And in fact there is no country in the world, where Americans are liked. Not one. You have to pay people or put them under pressure that they agree with you. And if they still not do as the brave french and german people, you freak out about it.
Look at the link to see what will happen with clowns like you, who just have a big mouth, while sitting in front of the tv.
Peacekeeper

Regarding 193,

In addition to the day's events, is it a full moon? The bats are out.

TV

"I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them".

even more proud to be an AMERICAN today.

"However much I may sympathize with and admire worthy motives, I am an
uncompromising opponent of violent methods even to serve the noblest of
causes." Gahndi

#193, Are you the mosquito about to hit the windshield?

Hold those supporters of tyranny to account

Let us all make them responsible for their misdeeds each in our own available ways and means.

"In our time the military mentality is still more dangerous than formerly because the offensive weapons have become much more powerful than the defensive ones. Therefore, it leads, by necessity, to preventive war. The general insecurity that goes hand in hand with this results in the sacrifice of the citizen's civil rights to the supposed welfare of the state. Political witch-hunting, controls of all sorts (e.g., control of teaching and research, of the press, and so forth) appear inevitable, and for this reason do not encounter that popular resistance, which, were it not for the military mentality, would provide protection. A reappraisal of all values gradually takes place insofar as everything that does not clearly serve the utopian ends is regarded and treated as inferior."
Einstein

I don't understand what happened. The media said we would be hated by the Iraqis. The Russians said we would never make it to Baghdad because our crappy tanks would all breakdown. Everybody said it was impossible. The TV commentators all said that the urban warfare would kill us all. Urban warfare was unlike anything we could concieve and we would fail. Saddam said we would be defeated, or actually that we were already defeated. The media said days ago that the war was bogged down. Just as they said about Afghanistan, this was going to be another Viet Nam. I remember hearing how Rumsfeld had screwed the whole thing up. I remember the left saying that Bush is an idiot only out for money and power.

GO USA! Damn, am I proud of our people!!!

And to the wacko loony left and idiotarians, as Ricky Ricardo used to say, "You got some 'splaining to do!"

Ghandi was a great guy, but if he said that, he was wrong.

People may not like violence, but this is a world ruled by force.

Also, violence is a part of our psyche whether we like it or not. It is unrealistic to think that we can blot all violence out.

TV

Like the old saying: The ones with the biggest guns have the smallest pricks!

I see. So the Marines fighting with M-16s and mortars and light machine guns weren't equally matched against the Iraqi soldiers with the same sorts of weapons?

I think not.

The Iraqis did have tanks. They had SAMs. They had hi-tech GPS jammers. They had artillery, and they had APCs. They also had Russian advisors.

They had 5 times the number of troops we did.

What they lacked was a coherent strategy...see Keegan's article in the Telegraph.

I'm sure the Iraqis could have made this far more bloody than it was if they tried hard enough. But their lack of performance is not surprising given how they fought even at the top of their game in Iran...or how similar Arab armies have fought in the past 40 years.

The Iraqis, like the Egyptians, and the Syrians had decent Soviet and French materiel. They just don't use them effectively most of the time.

Edward Teller#200.

Charles,

The infestation is starting. Get out the bug-nets.

TV

#189: It is this attitude -- this assumption that "splitting the difference" will produce something that resembles the truth -- that encourages extremism.

Whiner, if that's so, it's only because those who can see only black and white become enraged at the idea of giving up any ground - and decide that lashing out is the best response.

#190: Simply, it wouldn't have flied.

You're absolutely right, but my thing is, if it's worthwhile, make that explicit case to the American public. No fair falling back on emotional gut punches that will produce the expected results.

197 - That's Ghandi, not Gahndi, you moron. Try again.

Actually, Canucki, it's Alberta that has the oil. And they're going be filing for divorce soon.

Bigal,

Politicians (and media) use emotional gut-punches all of the time. Left-wing politicians have mastered it.

Remember how lowering the increase of the medicare budget was going to have old ladies starving and eating dog food in the streets.

Remember the school lunch budget fiasco - kids were going to starve all over America.

Clinton had the knack for biting his lower lip to elicit (sp?) an emotional response.

In all fairness, emotion usually wins the day. The idea behind the move against Hussein was definitely the right idea, it just needed to be sold on better grounds. Emotion was used as a tool, but all politicians do it.

TV

#193

The French and the Germans were perfectly happy to make money from Iraq while Saddam's torture chambers kept going and his children's prisons were still operating. Understandable, I guess, since the Germans have a history of this sort of thing and the French are real good at sucking up to dictators. But after the revelations of the last few days, I think I can speak for most Americans when I say we no longer give a damn what the rest of the world thinks about anything and it will be a cold day in hell before any of us here listens to moral instruction from a European.

I claim, on behalf of the New Right, the mantle of idealism, the dream of a better world for all at home and abroad, and the duty and obligation to bring about the changes to realize that ambition.

I consign, to the Old Left, the squalid despair of obstinance in the face of change, the inability to see beyond your own petty concerns, and the duty and obligation to watch from the sidelines if you cannot rise above your all-too-evident human failings, shortcomings, and intellectual and moral hypocrisy.

ghandi and the pope are naive

The Bush administration used several reasons to go to war. Some people denied those reasons. Stability in the region is something people assume may or may not happen. We hope it does. If we had stated explicitly that this was one of our reasons, their would have been a bigger backlash.

#210: In all fairness, emotion usually wins the day. The idea behind the move against Hussein was definitely the right idea, it just needed to be sold on better grounds. Emotion was used as a tool, but all politicians do it.

TV, I agree, but this is literally a situation involving life and death, versus the usual political grandstanding. I believe that an awful lot of Americans have sent their sons and daughters off to kill and die for a rationale that I cannot help but view through the prism of cynicism, given how much I have read about the "real" reasons behind this war.

If this nation is going to ask of me that I send my child or my father or my brother to die, the least I can ask of that nation is to level with me.

#208 skukeisha 4/9/2003 02:11PM PST
197 - That's Ghandi, not Gahndi, you moron. Try again.

The good man's name is Gandhi. Not Ghandi or Gahndi.

BTW, Indians supported Gandhi because his strategy worked - maybe a bit too slowly, but it worked in the end. If they had faced a Saddam or a Hitler, they would have had a different leader and a different strategy.

#179 Little Dumb Footballs

Sanctions kept the Iraqi people in their hell.

Tell me, do you really think that if Sadd*mn had been
Rewarded, he'd have gratefully refrained from further
Oppression, and terrorism to boot? If so, would you
Like to buy a bridge? Oh, you already have one
Look out! It's the sun! You'll turn to stone unless you get under it!

In HIS name, and in the name of the other 2997 heroes around his.

#207

Tell you what, Bigal, let's negotiate a sales price for my car.

You say you're willing to pay me $5,000?

Well, I want $1,000,000,000.

You say you're willing to come up to $6,000?

What an insult! You are so convinced of the righteousness of your position that you aren't willing to come close to even going 1% of the distance between our positions.

I, on the other hand, am quite open-minded. I'm willing to meet you half way, at $500,005,000.

In fact, I'm so open to seeing your point of view that I'll divide that number by 10 - no make that 100! --
$5,000,050.

I'll tell you what. I'm so so so so open to seeing the "grays" -- unlike those that stubbornly see things in black and white -- that I'll even divide that number by 10.

$500,005. Deal?

Very good point, Charles.

A toast of sexy democracy whiskey to that.

Thats the problem Bigal, too much reading and filtering and not enough experiencing. You had to volenteer to experience this one Bigal, your friends and neighbors didn't need your help this time.

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

The President has a heart. When he says he wants to disarm Iraq and liberate the Iraqis, I believe him. The President is bold. A liberated Iraqi democracy might result in stability in the reigon, but it is not the main reason we are going in.

#208: OK Whiner, let's make a deal.

But you haven't told me what the car is really worth yet.

I look at the hood and see a few dents and kick the tires and they sag a bit, and clearly I can see that it's not worth a million dollars. You are being intellectually dishonest in your pricing of the car.

However, it's got low mileage, it's a late model and it looks pretty good. Probably worth at least twice what I'm offering you for it. Therefore, I'm being intellectually dishonest in my offer.

Would you not agree, then, that the price lies somewhere between your extreme and my extreme?

#208 skukeisha 4/9/2003 02:11PM PST
197 - That's Ghandi, not Gahndi, you moron. Try again.

The good man's name is Gandhi. Not Ghandi or Gahndi.

BTW, Indians supported Gandhi because his strategy worked - maybe a bit too slowly, but it worked in the end. If they had faced a Saddam or a Hitler, they would have had a different leader and a different strategy.

I didn't read all the comments but just wanted to say:

"thank you Mr Bush! we very like Mr Bush! George Bush! George Bush!" :-))

Lots of daisies to the wonderful American and British troops, and lots of shoes in the face to all the protesters, the whiners, the catastrophists, the haters, and the old old old eu(gh)roleft. Oh how I'd love those Iraqis to kick their shoes into those sorry spoilt selfish asses next time they decide to strut them around in those pathetic "me me me" marches. Empty bronze heads celebrating their emptiness. Kick them all out of history where they don't belong.

Thank you America, for today, for sixty years ago, for simply being there.

I see
Fighting a country that is in war since 20 some years, that is under UN inspections since 10 years distroying more than 90 % of their weapons, leaving them with 20 scud rockets and some 30 years old tanks. A country that is weakend from an UN embargo since 10 years. Fighting against a high tech army, who has send them 3000 cruise missles in the first couple of weeks...get real. I know it must be hard to face the fact that the american army always has been a bunch of loosers if they don´t use ten times as much weapons as their opponents, or like in Germany and Vietnam, killing 100000 of civilians in the first place before they dared to conquer the country, and even than not allways succeded. Sorry, just a bunch of Couch Potatoes with a big mouth.

Peacekeeper

#225, A gnat buzzing about my ear?

What is sad is that people like #225 actually exist, and that there are millions of them across the world.

"Peacekeeper": please tell us all about either your own martial exploits, or those of whatever country you hail from! I'm sure your tales will leave us shocked and awed.

Sorry, sorry, I'm feeding trolls, what was I thinking.

#222 Bigal

You are assuming a reasonable negotiating partner -- and that is a foolish and ultimately dangerous assumption. If you start with the assumption that splitting the difference will produce an equitable solution, you are only encouraging extremism. After all, all positions are equally reasonable, equally unreasonable.

Or, to put it another way:

No I disagree that I was being intellectually dishonest! In fact, I am deeply offended that would say such an insulting and humiliating thing!!

Now, my offer is up to $10,000,000,000 . . . plus an apology.

It's a great day for the people of Iraq, for the United States of America, and for the world.

The Iraqi people have a new life in freedom.

Any irresponsible and tyrannical dictator will know, from this point forward, that if America tells you to disarm, you'd damn well better disarm.

And hopefully, we can establish a democratized government in Iraq that will serve as an example to the rest of the Arab world of the prosperity and opportunity that democracy brings.

Thank you, George Bush and Tony Blair, for your clearheaded and steadfast resolve.

Here's to a speedy end to the last remnants of this war. Here's to our victory. Here's to making the world a safer and better place.

"
Across the world, and in every part of America, people of goodwill are hoping and praying for peace. Our goal is peace -- for our own nation, for our friends, for our allies and for all the peoples of the Middle East. People of goodwill must also recognize that allowing a dangerous dictator to defy the world and build an arsenal for conquest and mass murder is not peace at all; it is pretense. The cause of peace will be advanced only when the terrorists lose a wealthy patron and protector, and when the dictator is fully and finally disarmed. "

President GWB

228 Occasional Reader ,

You ain´t know shit. Just because to buildings collapsed, you think you have to fight the rest of the world. You have not had a war in your country since 200 years, and I bet you guys would not make it even 3 weeks without shiting your pants.
peacekeeper

#230: Ah, but who is to say I am not an unreasonable negotiating partner as well?

My offer is now $2,500, take or leave it.

Or as the analogy goes, you could threaten to kick my ass, though everyone else on the lot is trying to dissuade you.

Sanctions were a very, very bad idea. They were stupid and ill-advised from the start when they were designed to force Iraq out of Kuwait. They didn't work over several months to get Iraq out of Kuwait and they didn't work over 12 years to topple the Iraqi regime. Their only real result was to cement the Ba'athist regime's strangle hold on the people (by centralizing food and medical care). Sanctions don't work, never have worked, and have greater disadvantages than advantages. We should never have used economic sanctions against the people of Iraq, we should have finished the job of deposing the Iraqi regime in 1991 when it would have been easiest. We should have saved the Iraqi people an extra decade of hell under the Ba'athists and under economic sanctions. We should not, and I think we will not, make that same mistake again.

Thank you Charles!

YES of course....In My Name.

please allow me the opportunity to say the following:

God Bless the United States of America!

God Bless the United States Military!

God Bless Senator Rumsfeld!

most impotantly,

God Bless George W. Bush

ak

...a proud fellow Texan.!

#234 Bigal,

Here's my last word on the subject, in case I wasn't making myself clear before:

If one OR MORE of the parties is not negotiating in good faith, then the process doesn't work . . . irrespective of pretty metaphors that involve mountains and valleys.

Israel has been a more-than-reasonable negotiating partner.

This has not been reciprocated.

SO PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. IN MY NAME! IN MY NAME! IT'S ALWAYS BEEN IN MY GODDAMN NAME!!!

Sorry, I needed to get that out.

So, Mr. Gahndi, if that *is* your real name, if some random ass walks up to me at puts a knife to my throat, I have no right to knee him in the nuts and run like hell? interesting.

Bigal: I DO see in black and white. You know, stuff like "america: good" "saddam: bad" the sort of stuff the iraqi citizens are chanting in the streets.
wouldn't your "man on mountaintops" analogy look EXACTLY THE SAME if one side was in fact telling the truth and the other was lying its ass off? Why, yes, yes it would.

p-keeper...drat. I would, but I want to save my squares of intellectual bread for the ducks.

P-keeper :

There's a reason we haven't had a war on our soil for 140 years.

The sanctimonious Euroweenie calling itself "peace," "einstein," "ghandi [sic]," etc., is in the country that gave the 20th century two of the most horrific wars in history: Germany. Essen, to be precise, home of the Krupp armament factory in WWII.

Joel MEANS Cris Matthews because he belongs in that crowd. He is less direct at his hatred of "THOSE PEOPLE and THAT CROWD" in the White House. Hes waiting for someone to do a book on THAT CROWD...hmm can it BE that he means THOSE JEWS..that dragged George Bush into this War?

Little coward...cant say what he means..might affect his big media job and his wifes media job.

#93

There is no country in the world where Americans are liked.

Proof, please? I like them and I live in England, therefore they are liked in England. And, apart from a few rabid anti-semites/anti-Americans/anti-warrists of my acquaintance, I don't know anyone who dislikes them.

Look at the link

What link? Oh, don't bother. Mustn't feed you-know-whats...

Now who was it who predicted "eleventy million dead"? Not in My Miscalculation

I'm so glad the Iraqi people are coming around and embracing the first tastes of freedom. Wow, the US is such a great country!

#235
You are assuming that our goal was to remove Saddam from power in 1991. Our goal was to pust Iraq out of Kuwait.

Did it make any military sense, therefore, to continue the war? The answer was no, it did not.

-- Saddam Hussein is out of Kuwait.

-- Aggression has been repelled.

-- All hostages and POWs have been released.

-- The legitimate government of Kuwait has been restored.

HINDSIGHT 50/50

ROFL--
STILL CRAZY AFTER ALL OF THESE YEARS

Jane Fonda fears 'entire world' will unite against U.S. after Iraq war
Associated Press

Published April 9, 2003 FOND10

VANCOUVER -- Jane Fonda told a Canadian audience that she fears the U.S. campaign in Iraq will turn people all over the world against America.

``What it's going to mean for (America's) stability as a nation, for terrorism, for the economy - I can't imagine,'' Fonda said Tuesday. ``I think the entire world is going to be united against us.''

That frightens her, she said, but she isn't sure what Americans can do about it.

``I don't know if a country where the people are so ignorant of reality and of history, if you can call that a free world,'' she said.

Fonda, 65, has been the target of criticism for decades for her opposition to the Vietnam War and for posing overseas with members of the opposition's military.

When she was in North Vietnam during the Vietnam War, Fonda said she saw a small performance of a play intended to teach villagers that there were ``good Americans and bad Americans'' even as U.S. bombs fell on their country.

She said she hopes Iraqis and others who might suffer from American attacks will feel the same as Vietnamese people she met, who told her ``someday the war will be over and we're going to have to be friends again.''

Fonda made her comments in Vancouver as part of the Unique Lives and Experiences lecture series. She also discussed Canada, the war, her acting career, and her three marriages and divorces.

Oops, I meant #193, not #93. But at least I admit my mistakes, unlike some folks we could mention.

Saddam topples and the Cubs win --- what a day!
Guys, plz ignore the troll (not bigal, the real troll) becuase nobody can be that stupid and be able to log on to a computer.

A gerry calling the US army "loosers"(sic)? How droll.

Hey, sheiskopf, you can chant that from now til doomsday and it still won't be true. You wanted to see us lose because you are still smarting from getting whupped in WWI and II. Sorry we couldn't accomodate your infantile fantasy.

I suppose we can look forward to helping Iraq become a more stable and prosperous country, and to them hating us in 60 years, just like the ingrate Germans.

I would find the troll amusing, but 5 of my ancestors died to free his country from its own version of Saddam.
I bet this 'peacekeeper' is about 17 years old.

Peacekeeper, was your request for a work visa denied? I'm sorry you're so envious of our country. You have no idea how much your envy shines through each of your bile-filled posts.

I feel sorry for p-keeper. For him, destroying the Taliban, rooting out terrorists in Afghanistan, toppling the Iraqi regime, and liberating the people of those two countries is a terrible thing that equates to fighting the entire world. I'm sure he has done what he could to help out those people over the years. The only real argument one could present to us is that maybe we should have done all of this sooner.

jkl: toppling Saddam's regime was an important aspect of our action in the Gulf War. This is not in question. Released secret executive orders make it clear along with our calls for a coup or revolution to topple the regime from within with our help from without. We promised to help topple Iraq's regime, we even set up no fly zones to prevent the regime from using air power to put down uprisings in the north and south. The rhetoric from the presidency in the buildup to Desert Storm centered on the Iraqi regime and the need to get rid of it, not on the smaller goal of pushing it out of Kuwait. We knew then that the regime was oppressive and brutal. We knew then that it had used chemical weapons in war and against its own people to supress revolts. We knew then that it had used bombs, helicopter gunships, and tanks to supress revolts with utmost brutality. It took no foresight in 1991 to understand the hell on Earth the Iraqi people would face if Saddam's regime continued (more so if the uprisings we encouraged failed). We stopped short of fighting directly to end his regime because of the political necessities of the UN mandate and the wide coalition we had sought. That was a mistake, and we needn't have made it. Hopefully we will not make it again.

A hatefilled German quotes Einstein. Hmmm, nice to see he's appreciated by you folks now - that wasn't the case when he was alive. And your Fuhrer would have made very short work of Gandhi.

Well, to hell with the trolls, the Euro small sausages, the Hollywood boneheads, and the pale-assed protesters. Cheers to our troops, the freed Iraqis, Charles Johnson, and my fellow anti-idiotarians here at LGF. Don't know how I would have made through the past year without you fine folks!:-)

#192 Red, with clouds of black, and a sun that sets in the East.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Here I thought they were in the world with purple skies, saffron clouds and the little pink fluffy bunnies that ensured peace through snuggles.

Glenn Reynolds posted a good quote from Christopher Hitchens:

We should celebrate our common ground as well as the gorgeous mosaic of our diversity. The next mass mobilization called by International ANSWER and the stop-the-war coalition is only a few days away. I already have my calendar ringed for the date. This time, I am really going to be there. It is not a time to keep silent. Let our voices be heard. All of this has been done in my name, and I feel like bearing witness.

Glenn Reynolds adds: me, too --- and I add: me too, me too, me too.

Ok, had to leave the discussion for a bit.

Bigal, send me the link to that MeFi site. Post it here, I'm sure Charles will allow it. Bring it on, I'm not afraid of anything they could post there.

Oh, and by the way, there are times when one party on a mountaintop is damn close to 100% right and the other is close to 100% wrong. Good ol' Baghdad Bob with his "the Americans are killing themselves at the airport" speech is a classic example of that.

#130 -- Phil, thanks for the warning. If it's more of that damn "poor little Palestinians, if the Israelis would stop picking on them crap", I won't be too shocked.

#131 -- Uh, when Bull Conner was around, I was a twinkle in my daddy's eye. I plead the 5th on the rest. ;)

#180 -- not all of us liberals or sort-of liberals were on the anti-war side. Just like not all of the so-called conservatives were on Bush's side. Buchanan comes to mind.
#193 -- You want some countries where they actually like us? Ok, try Ireland. And Australia. I think the Brits kinda like us too. Possibly Israel, but hey, I know that someone as enlightened as you probably doesn't even see Jews as people so I'm sure that won't count to you. And as for this crap that we haven't fought a war in 140 years.....maybe we learned our lesson from the horror it wreaked, unlike several European nations we could mention. Which one are you from, anyway? I notice that your spelling gets more atrocious the more worked up you get, so English can't be your native language.

#203 -- so, I guess that means French men are hung like horses, since heaven knows, they haven't fought for anything in a damn long time. Besides, the last time the French were able to win anything, they needed a CORSICAN to tell them how to do it.

To the brave "peacekeeper" from that land of peace known as Germany (#233):

First off, I note you weren't even brave enough to answer my question.

You have not had a war in your country since 200 years

200 years, eh. What was that little dust-up between 1861 and 1865, then? Obtuseness AND ignorance--and nice combination, pk. Keep up the good work.

#254 -- hey, I resemble that remark! ;)

Dan Quayle

"Our critics accuse us of stopping the war too soon. Well, I was with the president when he made his decision to stop the war, and I can tell you all: There was no dissent -- none whatsoever."

One of the questions raised at that historic meeting was whether all our military objectives had been achieved. The answer was: Yes, they had. Did it make any military sense, therefore, to continue the war? The answer was no, it did not.

Looking back at the president's decision today, we should all ask ourselves one simple question: Would it have been wise, would it have been moral, to slaughter Iraqi soldiers in full retreat, when our military objectives had been achieved? I think most Americans would agree that such a slaughter would be neither wise, nor normal. I think most Americans would also agree that the president's decision was correct.

What I find most disturbing about some of today's newly-hatched hawks is that, directly or indirectly, they imply that the United States should intervene in Iraq's civil war and become an occupying force. But before embarking on such a course, we had better think it through and determine whether or not it's in our national interest.

I presume there would be pressure to go in and get Saddam -- but that would mean occupying Baghdad at considerable cost to American lives. Moreover, if the president did decide to intervene, wouldn't the same chorus of voices now denouncing the president for his alleged inaction turn against him and accuse him of becoming the world's policeman?

That's Dan Quayle's view. Also, Clinton avoided going in. We thought we could contain Saddam. We also had to follow what the UN (and our Arab "allies") wanted.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

And in my name as well. G-d bless the President, the troops, and the people of Iraq. I hope that 250 years from now they remember 9 April 2003 the way we remember 4 July 1776.

Bigal,

It is called "risk assessment". You don't believe that Saddam Hussein would ever give WMD to terrorists, and, thus, this war was unnecessary (at least as far as the WMD arguement goes). I believe that he not only would, but may already have (think about the ricin traces found in Britain and France). I believe that he definitely would eventually have.

Let's examine the consequences of each of us being wrong (I assume you believe that it is possible that you are wrong).

We will start with me being wrong. America didn't have to fight this war out of National Security/WMD concerns. Five years from now (and another 50,000 Iraqi dead) Saddam dies, rule passes to one of his lunatic sons (I presume that we can agree that people who do things like shoot people at the dinner-table are, at best, unstable). Further assume that said lunatic doesn't give/sell nuclear weapons to terror groups (no one denies that if left in power the Iraqi regime will eventually get nuclear arms).

We have, so far, lost around 132 dead, less than 500 civilian dead (according to CNN). Plus several billion dollars in weaponry and ammunition. That is the cost of me being wrong. With, of course, the side benefit of ending the Ba’athist regime of Saddam Hussein.

Which leads us the thing we can, I believe, agree on. If we did not go to war, there would be no foreseeable end to the Ba'athist regime. Over the next 20 years or so it is likely that more than a million Iraqi citizens would be murdered by that regime (indeed, that is a conservative estimate, based on the history of the last 20 years).

So that, to begin with, is the known cost of your being right. Now, consider the cost if you are wrong.

Seven years from now a 15 kT yield fission bomb goes off in downtown Manhattan. Al Qaeda claims responsibility, intelligence indicates that the bomb is of Iraqi origin. 200,000 Americans die in the blast, plus 300,000 more from burns, radiation, etc. Again, probably a conservative estimate.

Our response would be the nuclear annihilation of Iraq. It could be no less.

All those people you saw dancing in the streets today (less the ones that the Ba'athists had already murdered) would die. Along with the people of every major city in Iraq.

We know one of us must be wrong (as we have mutually exclusive viewpoints). Which one of us risks the most if we are wrong, and the other is right?

Furthermore, which option do you think the Iraqi people would prefer?

Military historians may soon identify Operation Iraqi Freedom as the most justly fought war in the history of modern warfare.

Oh and I think everyone can agree with me when I say...

Fuck the BBC

Hey #9

"it's something to spit in the face of every piece of trash liberal you run into (not that they'll ever admit their stupidy)"

Maybe next time you should put down porno mag, pick up a dictionary and learn how to spell "stupidity", moron. F-BUSH

Hey #11

"And we did it trying so hard NOT to kill bystanders. We even sacrificed OURSELVES as we tried to be so careful."

Show one example of an American sacrificing him/herself to be careful, in fact it's quite the opposite. [Link: www.informationclearinghouse.info...]

Hey #16 Maybe you should be forced to realize we gave Saddam the ingredients for biological weapons in the first place, taught Iraq how to use mustard gas on the Iranians, and blocked a UN resolution to denounce the use of chemical weapons. [Link: www.unobserver.com...]

I could go on and on rebutting the comments of uneducated self-righteous elephants, but it's not worth my time, unintelligent people can't be swayed with logic

Yes, In my name!

A great day for liberty!

Can't resist,

#261

I'm sure you had rosy predictions when we helped kick the russians out of Afghanistan too, gee I think that one came back to bite us. This is not over and the success or failure can only be judged 10/20 years from now. And based on your belief in the Wolfowitz pre-emption policy (notice I leave out Bush because he's to stupid to come up with this himself) we're in for at least 4 more wars in the near future. And considering the strong support evidenced here I can assume many of you will be enlisting soon? What's that? No? You won't? Oh yeah, conservatives prefer to let other people do the fighting (particularly minorities).

steve you are a moron

#266 Steve,

And considering the strong support evidenced here I can assume many of you will be enlisting soon? What's that? No? You won't? Oh yeah, conservatives prefer to let other people do the fighting (particularly minorities).

Can't resist.

I spent two years trying to get into the Naval Academy. Medical disqualification (and that was before the car wreck that tore up my arm). Want to write the Pentagon on my behalf? If they’ll take me I’ll go.

One of the most frustrating things about this war for me is that I should be there. And the “particularly minorities” is pure bullshit. Please.

Steve --

Relax, buddy. Stress kills.

We didn't give Saddam the ingredients to make WMD. Nor is the military predominantly minority.

Oh, yeah, I'm a liberal. Sorry if I seem "disloyal" to you, I just prefer to deal with facts.

#266 whereas idiotarians prefer to fight in first person like mujahedeens armed to the teeth just for the honour and pride of defending freedom and bringing hope to...

No wait, they prefer to piss all over people who are rejoicing in seeing yet another Stalin clone fall. You must be soo proud.

I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus: this was in my name. The future is uncertain, but there is now more hope for the Iraqi people than existed in ante bellum Iraq. May there also be more hope for the Middle East as a consequence of this war.

I live in Australia, and while I don't agree with PM John Howard on every issue, he was right to commit troops to help our US and UK allies. Many people in my country have said how ashamed they are to be Australian because of our participation in this war. Well, all I can say is that I am proud to be an Australian today. Once again, we have helped to deliver a people from tyranny to freedom.

Oh, forgot one thing. I unfortunately can't go join the military. Asthma. It's a disqualifier, even though I go running whenever I can. Go figure.

Steve #266,

You sound upset that the Iraqis are being liberated. If you had a brain, the cognitive dissonance would be overwhelming.

#266

I'm a 20-year veteran. How about you, Steve?

Bush is stupid. Sure, that's why he's outflanked every one of you crybabies from the left, including the thugs and thieves at the UN. Nice try.

FYI, combat troops are predominately white, you bigot. Go look at the faces at the nearest Army/USMC/USAF base, if you don't mind lowering yourself to breathe the same air as they do.

#44 kayawanee
Love your call.

BTW, Christopher Hitchens says it was in his name.
[Link: slate.msn.com...]

#266 Steve,

Since you evaded the entire point that #261 Iron Fist made regarding WMDs AND brought up the "chickenhawk" argument, I can only assume that the entire matter is one that YOU would be willing to have bourne the consequences of to the fullest possible measure (much as you expect conservatives to bear the fullest possible measure in acting against the Baathist regime). In light of the fact that consequence Iron Fist pointed to was the use of WMDs against the U.S., I can only assume that you would have been prepared to guarantee that you would have shared in these consequences (that is, if such an attack took place and you weren't one of the victims, you would have taken a .45, placed the barrel in your mouth, and pulled the trigger). Am I correct?

To the peoson who wanted a list of the signers (for ridicule) here's a link for you:

[Link: www.nion.us...]

And this one, a cached page at google might have more names:

[Link: 216.239.57.100...]

#268, Ironfist. I don't think that Bigal knows what a type two error is. I wonder if he can figure out what a sexual intellectual is.

#266 Steve
Can I call you asshole? Thanks. I'm a conservative, and so far, a 23 year vet. Hmmm...curious. You and your buddy Al Sharpton have some really distorted views.