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-RetweetISM Losing Confidence

Mon, May 5, 2003 at 2:17:49 am PDT

Well, well. International Solidarity Movement members in Rafah seem to be suffering pangs of ... what is that thing called, again? That thing that makes you, uh, uncomfortable when you know you’re doing something wrong? A conscience? (Hat tip: zulubaby.)

Reports that last week's two British suicide bombers, one of whom blew himself up at Mike's Place, entered Israel as activists in the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) has wreaked havoc with the group's self-confidence. Only three to six ISM members remain in Rafah.

One of the group said the peace activists are determined to continue their "passive resistance to the Israeli occupation," but others paint a different picture. ...

Some spoke of growing suspicions they have that certain "activists" are planted agents, and of fears that the IDF was following them and listening in on their telephone calls. Both Israeli and British media have suggested the two British citizens involved in the Tel Aviv terrorist attack succeeded in entering Israel by pretending to be ISM activists, going to the Gaza Strip and returning to Tel Aviv for the attack.

ISM spokesman Tom Wallace vehemently denied the two had any connection to the movement and said attending a memorial service for Rachel Corrie was something any Palestinian or stranger could have done, but the denial failed to disperse the cloud over the movement.

Wallace and others in ISM have long said they know various groups are trying to exploit them to bash the IDF, and they tell the Palestinians to keep clear of any provocation. The few ISM members who attended the service for Corrie refuse to talk about Mohammed Hanif and Sharif Khan and whether they had any connections with ISM members apart from attending the ceremony.

On second thought, to have a conscience, you would first need to have a sense of morality. So this is probably something more primitive, more like what an infant feels when mommy loses her temper and yells.

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1 NTropy  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:22:23am

Late night Charles? "You go to bed young man!"

First?

2 -  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:26:00am

Maybe they are getting the idea finally,

that peace activists are universally stupid people,

what with the experience in baghdad as saddam's shields,

and now in israel with the mike's place tradgedy

not to mention that any young person will be forever tainted with membership in such an organization

-- for as long as he lives

background checks are a bitch...

forget about security clearance

3 Azrael  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:26:19am
Some spoke of growing suspicions they have that certain "activists" are planted agents, and of fears that the IDF was following them and listening in on their telephone calls

Oh my. Somebody call a whaaa-mbulance. You guys are breaking my heart.

4 Victor of the Apes  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:34:17am

This was expected. Don't expect the terrorist enablers to make any long term changes. A little "Mea Culpa" for the cameras, a few months of low donations, and then a return to normality. Sad but true.

5 Mike Nargizian  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:35:47am

Planted agents as in Palestinian ""militants"" using the organization as a cover or Israeli spies?

6 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:35:56am

Sounds like damage control. They'll keep a low profile for a few month while playing their "poor little Corrie" up, then start again.

7 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:38:08am

Now that I think about it...

Wallace and others in ISM have long said they know various groups are trying to exploit them to bash the IDF

Saying that while playing the flat bitch card proves they have chutzpah.

8 jenbr  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:45:15am

OT but relevant. Israel to honor REAL heroes this coming Independence day.

Honoring the Security Guards and Zaka
[Link: www.israelnationalradio.com...]

Honoring the Security Guards and Zaka
In recognition of the life-saving work carried out by security guards around the country, sometimes at the expense of their own lives, one of their number will be honored by the State of Israel tomorrow night at the Independence Day torch-lighting ceremony.

In the past two weeks alone, one guard - Alexander Kostiuk - was killed while preventing a suicide bomber from entering the Kfar Sava train station, and another guard was seriously wounded while doing the same in front of Mike's Place in Tel Aviv. Just over a month ago, Gil Kuperman (Gil Yeshaya ben Aviva) was seriously wounded while preventing a suicide bomber from killing anyone in Netanya; his condition is now reported to be much improved, and he has been transferred to a rehabilitation ward in Hadassah Ein Karem Hospital in Jerusalem.

Eish-Kodesh Gilmore, 25, became the 14th victim of the Oslo War in Oct. 2000 when he was killed while guarding an office in eastern Jerusalem. In March 2002, Chaim Smadar, 55, was killed while guarding a southern Jerusalem supermarket, and in Jan. 2002, Avi Yazdi, 25, was the first of six victims when a terrorist shot him as he was guarding a hall in Hadera during a Bat Mitzvah celebration. Last November, Julio Magre, 51, a new immigrant from Argentina, paid with his life when he bodily prevented a suicide terrorist from entering a crowded mall in Kfar Sava.

On the other hand, some guards have managed to save lives without giving up their own, such as Eli Federman who shot and killed an approaching terrorist in Tel Aviv a year ago, and Mikhail Sarkisov, who helped pin down a terrorist near the American Embassy last October.

Another torch-lighter will be the founder of Zaka Emergency Service, Yehuda Meshi-Zahav. This is considered a first, in that Meshi-Zahav stems from an anti-Zionist hareidi group, yet he has agreed to declare that he "is honored to light this torch for the glory of the State of Israel." Zaka responds to terrorist attacks, car accidents and the like, ensuring burial for all human remains in complete accordance with Jewish law. Zaka also deals with non-Jewish victims of terror attacks, helping to accommodate other religious customs when necessary.

9 Chana  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:52:16am

Read the article again carefully. They are not suffering a crisis of conscience, rather of confidence.

They are saying that the IDF has been planting agents in their group as well as monitoring their phone calls.

This is NOT the same thing as saying they were wrong to assist terrorists.

Since when does the IDF do that instead of the Security Services, anyway?

10 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 1:05:27am

#9 Chana

Infiltration and information gathering was the job of the IDF Mistaravim units, Sayeret Shimshon in the Gaza strip and Sayeret Duvdevan in Judea and Samaria. Sayeret Shimshon was disbanded in 1994 (Oslo, anyone?) but I think Duvdevan is still active.

The Border Police created three Mistaravim units, in Gaza, Judea and Samaria, and Jerusalem, after the start of the first stupidfada, and the Israeli Police created one in Jerusalem (called Gideonim IIRC) after Oslo.

The real mistake, of course, was to disband Sayeret Rimon in 1971 -- those chaps had killed off almost all the terrorists in Yesha.

11 john  Mon, May 5, 2003 1:29:04am

I'm with Chana on this, not a crisis of conscience but rather some sort of vestigal survival trait. They know the mask has slipped and the skull beneath the smile in plain view for all to see.

If they distract the world's attention for a moment, "Boy, we feel guilty. This isn't what we stand for.", perhaps the world, will soon forget this and go back to viewing them as conscientious little objectors.

12 Craig  Mon, May 5, 2003 1:35:56am

#10 Caton,

Duvdevan is still active. While Shimson was disbanded as a result of the Oslo disaster, there is supposedly a new unit.

13 Chana  Mon, May 5, 2003 2:23:38am

Read the article again and then read it again.

Nowhere does it say anything about remorse or conscience. They say they have been killed, infiltrated, exploited, injured and are fearful.

There is not even a pretense of remorse.

14 nevius  Mon, May 5, 2003 2:35:12am

those brits are still stupid wannabe bleeding hearts

15 ibrodsky  Mon, May 5, 2003 2:48:30am

They are simply worried their role as terrorism supporters has been fully exposed. They don't want to end up with their mugs on a deck of cards when Arafatistan is finally defeated.

16 Geepers  Mon, May 5, 2003 2:51:25am

One of the main problems the LLL is facing right now are one's of credibility. ISM has taken a terrible blow to their credibility over the Rachael Corrie "tragedy." Standing behind very questionable cases is not the way to boost support from the general populous. Those that want to believe will, no matter what the evidence shows. The problem ISM is having is that those who don't know who they are have learned that they are less than forthright thus bringing into question all of there actions.

It's a Hallmark of these groups. How much credibility will Amnesty International retain after picking up the banner for this "hero?"

A human rights researcher accused by police of staging an attack and blaming it on Guatemalan death squads has been declared a "hero" by Amnesty International USA, despite lingering doubts about her account.


Does anyone know why these groups stand behind such questionable actions? Are there no real cases of wrong-doing that they can support?

17 aaron's rantblog  Mon, May 5, 2003 2:51:59am

Time to sing the ISM theme song again...

"Oh My God, They Killed Corrie, Those Bastards! (Part II)"
Apologies to Simon and Garfunkle

They say that Rachel Corrie is spread out over this whole town,
With political connections spreading her fame around.
Born into society, a wealthy trust-fund child,
She had everything a gal could want: blond hair, grace, and style.

Here in the University
And I curse the life I'm living
And I curse my liberty
And I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be
Rachel Corrie.

The papers print her picture almost everywhere she goes:
Rachel Corrie at Ramallah, Rachel Corrie burning flags.
And the rumor of her parties and the orgies in her tent!
Oh, she surely must be happy with the martyrdom she's got.

Here in the University
And I curse the life I'm living
And I curse Dad's salary
And I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be
Rachel Corrie.

She gave to Muslim charity, she spread the communist case,
And they were grateful for her naivete and thanked her to her face,
So my mind was hardly perplexed when the evening headlines read:
"Rachel Corrie went home today welcoming a bulldozer on her head."

Here in the University
And I curse the life I'm living
And I curse the Land That's Free
And I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be
Rachel Corrie.

[heavy bass on the acoustic guitar...]

18 Black_Flag  Mon, May 5, 2003 4:11:49am

#7 Caton:

"while playing the flat-bitch-card"

lol your killing me over here!

henceforth the term "the flat bitch" is assumed to be referencing the tool we all know and love.

19 E. Brown  Mon, May 5, 2003 4:40:20am

This is no surprise, check out their inspiration:

The Gandhi Nobody Knows, by Richard Grenier:


[Link: eserver.org...]

Gandhi would have wuvved Widdle Wachel to death.

20 Buckeye  Mon, May 5, 2003 4:45:24am

The reason for the havoc has nothing to do with "conscience", if you read the HaEretz story. It has to do with the fact that the premise under which the ISM volunteers operated has been undermined. That premise is that Israel being a free and democratic country would do everything to avoid bad publicity and so would not treat the ISM agents as provocateurs. Then came the incident of Rachel "The Bird" Corrie, and a couple of shooting incidents involving ISM agents actively sheltering terrorist or terrorist activities. It seems that Israel won't do everything to avoid bad publicity and that they might actually treat you as a terrorist if your job is protecting terrorists. The ISM agents gotta to be thinking that maybe they should be operating in Syria rather than in Irael. In least in Syria they would know that they will be killed, but in Israel they can't be certain. The suspense alone is enough to kill somebody.

21 Robert Crawford  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:05:27am

The whole "planted agent" line is typical when a radical group gets caught involved in violence. You still see loony leftys claiming that all the violence committed by the Black Panthers or SLA were the result of FBI agents.

22 JamesW  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:16:48am

In other words they're feeling remorse.. for getting caught!

23 rabidfox  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:25:47am

aaron's rantblog -- you are GOOD!.

I am quite sure that IDF (or some Israeli intelligence group) as agents in the ISM. But I doubt that they are agent provacatours (sp?) Distracting from their own activities, ISM will be pounding the St. Pancake drum all that much louder hoping to drownd out the noice of criticism.

Actually these groups know that there are more repressive nations out there -- Cuba, NK, etc. You have to remember that Amnesty International, IMS, etc. are just 'covers' for their real activity -- undercutting western culture in general and the US in particular.

24 AG in Houston  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:30:03am

Caton,

Shimshon was not the only undercove runit operating in Gaza that is now defunct.

My unit was integrated into the duchifat unit, I think, in 1996.

I served in the sayeret from 92-95.

From a recent description of one of your operations, I am assuming you served in the Shaldag unit?

Am I correct in this assumption?

25 Jay  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:45:19am

Unless Caton is working for IDF intelligence from France (definitly not discounting this possibility =P) I really doubt he would be in one of the units. He is looking at relocating from France to Israel. Ironically, moving to a safer place.

26 ploome  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:49:20am

19 E. Brown

the article linked in your post, is my all time favorite...Grenier is my FAVORITE media critis/analyst in the whole world.

I still have the original Commentary magazine where this article first appeared...

Seeing it posted here, is like meeting a dear old friend...

thank you...

27 AG in Houston  Mon, May 5, 2003 5:59:30am

Jay,

He spoke of an operation he did in the first Gulf War.

I seriously doubt he would have time to post so frequently on LGF if he were in Shaldag...

Unless...

:-)

28 Ernest Brown  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:14:28am

Ploome #26,

Thanks! Have you read his hilarious novel, The Marrakesh One-Two, which is based on the real-life efforts of Moustapha Akkad to film the ultimate in reverential Islamic religious epics THE MESSAGE (a.k.a. Muhammed, Messenger of God), only to be brutally betrayed and stabbed in the back by his own fanatical and treacherous co-religionists? If you haven't, track the book down in a used-book store, it will both amuse and enlighten you about certain timely matters. Akkad went on to satiate his thirst for jihad against the West by proxy, fake-slaying numerous Hollywood bit players as executive producer of the HALLOWEEN movie series.

29 ploome  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:22:43am

Ernest Brown,

no I havent read that..I will try and find it.

more on Richard Grenier..

[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

30 Razorback  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:26:57am

The line between passive and active genocide is so thin that crossing it is an almost unconscious act. ISMers pause only momentarily to stuff their awareness of the true genocidal nature of their mission back into their squirming subconscious, then back to more passive genocide with renewed fervor.

31 Kelly  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:40:09am

No respect for the dignity of the dead. The Indymedia crowd are pushing the following web site for propaganda purposes.

[Link: www.miftah.org...]

32 next!  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:40:16am

Wait -- Charles might be right about the "conscience" part after all:

"Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking." -- Mencken

Hate to quote the old antisemite, but . . .

1) He pretty much hated all of mankind, and made no bones about it; and

2) The cranky old sumbitch sure could turn a phrase.

33 Korora the Penguin  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:42:01am

#31 Kelly

What slimy hypocrites these PA goons be!

34 EW1(SG)  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:49:26am

Conscience? Not. Embarrassment, on the level of a little boy caught with a hand in the cookie jar, not even approaching the level of caught in bed with best friend's wife.

St Pancake? Flat-bitch-card? ROFLOL!

35 RC neo-Jew  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:54:03am

You read it first on LGF!

ISM are sticking to the story they hastily concocted last Wednesday that
the terrorists only dropped in for a refreshing cup of tea.

Today there is still the same desperate attempt to distance themselves from the bombers: Foreign 'peace activists' had tea with Tel Aviv bombers. Nothing like having a nice cup of tea before carrying out an atrocity.

36 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:56:30am

#12 Craig

Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of that. "Operational status in 2003": do you know if they're operational now?

Of course it's Sayeret Rimon that should be recreated.

#16 Geepers

The article you linked to says it all:

"I'm afraid the conclusion I have to draw is that the truth is not always what concerns them most," said Mr. Ratliff, a critic of Amnesty for what he called its reluctance to pursue left-wing regimes and guerrillas with the fervor it demonstrates for those on the right. "Sometimes it's the truth of a wider cause, rather than the truth of the individual case, that's more important."

Just like nobody on the left wanted to condemn Stalin. Nothing new here.

#18 Black_Flag

Love? No.

#24 AG in Houston

Is Shaldag's name unclassified?

I was in Sayeret Tzanhanim, Palsar 5173, by the way. More or less every unit deployed in Iraq in 1991 did some target designation. We didn't really want to (it's the most boring job I ever did), but with mobile targets, there really was no choice.

#25 Jay

If I was working for IDF intelligence, I would keep a lower profile. To start with, I wouldn't be posting anything on any blog :-)

Just like AG in Houston, I'm too old for this shit now.

37 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 6:58:02am

#32 next!

As you pointed out, Mencken hated everybody equally. Not really an antisemite :-)

38 AG in Houston  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:03:59am

Caton

Shaldag's name was declassified long ago. I believe the only thing that is classified in the information age is an actual operation.

Sayeret Tzanchanim is quite the respectable unit... can't really call them "tznefim" can we?

As for me being too old for this shit, I am only 31 butI am now married and am getting to point where my wife won't let me do this shit anymore.

Call me a hot head but, I stifle antisemitism quickly when I come across it in the course of everyday talking. It doesn't happen very often. I am always up for a good fight defending what is right. And I don't mind putting my size 11 Israeli commando boot in someone's ass if need be, like some of those trolls here.

When I was on honeymoon in Rome, I begged my wife to let me go straighten some people out at the peace rally which was but 200 yards from the Hard Rock.

Nothing doin'.

I whupped.

39 CPatterson  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:08:30am

Sniff, sniff

“Aaagh”
“gag”

Gas Mask! Gas Mask!

“gasp”
“gasp”

Methinks I do smell the odiferous perfume of moral delusion from the professionally self-righteous Idiotarian Society of Maroons wafting through the morning breeze. (Yesh, talk about a weapon of mass destruction.)

I think they took my suggestion and had a conference call with Matthew Hale on the proper way to respond to unfortunate incidents connected with their group. Deny, deny and deny.

I’m surprised that they haven’t (yet) accused the brit splodeydope of being a IDF agent.

They are probably hoping that this will pass quickly out of the news so they can get back to the process of canonizing St. Rachel the Roadkill, patron saint of ROHOWA (secular anti-zionist division).

40 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:18:07am

#38 AG in Houston

Shaldag's name was declassified long ago. I believe the only thing that is classified in the information age is an actual operation.

Hmm. I'm too old for that "open information age" shit, too. The world was a better place when tourists on King Saul Bd were answered, "What building? I can't see any building".

*grumble* Even entropy isn't what it used to be.

/old curmudgeon

Sayeret Tzanchanim is quite the respectable unit... can't really call them "tznefim" can we?

Fighting words. Be careful. I'm not that old.

As a unit, we always did our job, never botched a mission. In the end, that's the only thing that counts. The rest is only important to impress the girls ;-)

As for me being too old for this shit, I am only 31 but I am now married and am getting to point where my wife won't let me do this shit anymore.

All wifes are like that. I think they feel like they are protecting an investment -- they don't want to risk having to educate a replacement :-)

When I was on honeymoon in Rome, I begged my wife to let me go straighten some people out at the peace rally which was but 200 yards from the Hard Rock.
Nothing doin'.

She was right. You would have been the one ending in jail. Better to enjoy your honeymoon.

Now it's time to start a family! When's your first kid due?

41 KevinV  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:24:41am

This is slightly OT, but one of the reasons I think the Rachel Corrie story persists in both the mainstream media and LGF is because it reveals a fundamental disconnect in popular culture, a type of hangover from the 1960s that we need to defeat and get over if we conservatives are ever going to truely win the argument.

This is what I mean by that: The 60s set in motion a myth, deeply held and much beloved, that protestors are "good." They are "trying to do something" about "injustice." They are "speaking out." They are trying "the change the world." Etc.

This default setting instinctively and automatically looks at a truely hateful, spiteful idiotic personality like Corrie (and her Invite-Mumia-to-be-our-commencement-speaker pals at Evergreen State University) as a "good person." It is almost impossible to overcome this presumption. Witness the Des Moines Register article that Charles linked to in this regard.

We know what we know. I have no doubts about anyone on this board. But, what I'm really interested in hearing from people about is ideas on how to break the default perception that leftwing protestors are "peace activists" trying to do good in the world (however "misguided" they may be), while conservatives are similarly defaulted to bad guys who want to starve inner city kids.

Any and all ideas on this front greatly appreciated.

42 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:34:14am

#41 KevinV

The only way would be to use a mix of truth and counter-propaganda. Each and every story about the moral and financial corruption of those "protestor" movements to be repeated every half-hour on every news channel. Lots of stupid movies showing the courageous FBI agent fighting to infiltrate the evil protestor movement. Etc. You know what I mean.

43 AG in Houston  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:37:38am

Caton

No kids yet. Wife is in her first year of residencey. She is getting her ass kicked. I don't think her body can really take a nine month gestation... of course mating is always fun.

LOL!

44 Caton  Mon, May 5, 2003 7:50:41am

#43 AG in Houston

Well, start planning. A zygote is a gamete's way of producing more gametes. When you think about it, this could be the purpose of the whole universe.

45 RC-Jew  Mon, May 5, 2003 8:17:47am

On the BBC news just now - George Galloway was pelted with eggs at a May Day rally on Merseyside! Good for the Scousers!

# 41 KevinV

You are right. They think they are good because they use the correct words, eg 'justice' and 'peace, to justify their actions, no matter how unjust or violent they are. Self congratulation and mutual admiration among them keep their system going.

46 kid charlemagne  Mon, May 5, 2003 8:20:50am

#37: Well, he did have a particular ambivalent distaste for Jews, perhaps not terribly unlike that of our own Ranbutan: He saw them as clever but unseemly. I remember reading something of his where he commented that the growing influence of Jews in America would lead to a more intelligent society, which was good, but it would necessarily fall short of his ideal of a 'society of gentlemen', since Jews in his view were somehow naturally uncouth.

47 RC neo-Jew  Mon, May 5, 2003 8:23:27am

# 41 KevinV

... but if you are looking for a cure for them, I cannot think of one. It means rearranging their fondly-held thought processes, in some cases held for 40 years. I don't know how one can persuade them to question their own ideas, unless their heroes are sufficiently discredited so that they become disillusioned. That would take a lot of doing if they regard such horrible and evil people as suicide terrorists with sympathy or admiration.

48 english bloke  Mon, May 5, 2003 9:50:04am

#45
Damn! They missed.
Better luck next time.

49 rabidfox  Mon, May 5, 2003 10:17:04am

Kevin V. Let's try some propaganda of our own. Show a clip of a peace demo and then switch to mass graves, peace demo, clip of bombing victums, etc. Make sure that each peace demo clip shows appropriate signs. Another approach is similiar. Short clip of a really smug LLL and then a brief bio of a bomb victum - preferable told by a weeping mother.

In other words show the real hypocracy of the left. For too long we have been sanitizing the news, what we need is a special that in fact shows the darker side as it really is. Don't plan it for prime time -- but it needs to be shown -- there is just too much candy coating going on these days and people don't seem to have the imagination to fill in the blanks on their own.

50 davic  Mon, May 5, 2003 11:55:35am

I believe these "peace activists" really do want peace, the peace of Hitler and Bin Laden, i.e., NO MORE JEWS.

51 Mitch Polka  Mon, May 5, 2003 12:41:02pm

#41 KevinV
"But, what I'm really interested in hearing from people about is ideas on how to break the default perception that leftwing protestors are "peace activists" trying to do good in the world (however "misguided" they may be), while conservatives are similarly defaulted to bad guys who want to starve inner city kids.

Any and all ideas on this front greatly appreciated."


~~~
Step 1. Try to get the average American to forego watching TV one night a week and to read a little History instead.
Step 2. Repeat step 1.

Good luck!

52 Korora the Penguin  Mon, May 5, 2003 1:02:15pm

#48

Siþspawn fast reflexes! *grumble grumble*

53 Ceci  Mon, May 5, 2003 4:15:53pm

Israel is going to kick these foreign goofs out of the country and try to keep them out from now on according to a story I read last week. Please do so, Israel. You should have done it last year after some of these terror supporters made common cause with the criminals who occupied and trashed the Church of the Nativity.

#41 - All I can think to do is to point out the actual mayhem and destruction caused by "peace" activists over the years at every opportunity. For example, people like David Horowitz and Mona Charen never let us forget what "good" activists like Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, Kathy Soliah, Bernardine Dohrn, etc. actually did. I believe Rachel Corrie and many of these ISM types were/are just a few steps shy of Ulrike Meinhof/Lori Berenson territory.

54 zulubaby  Tue, May 6, 2003 12:10:27am

Maybe these tools will finally get it through their brains that the IDF is serious and not playing chicken with them. They place themselves in extemely dangerous situations and are then amazed when they get hit. There's live fire morons, and contrary to the latest conspiracy theory, the Israelis don't have bullets (or WMD) that can differentiate between Arabs and "Others". The IDF is there to stop terrorists from crossing into Israel, to hunt down terrorists and their organizations. ISM Idiots don't understand or care that they are offering protection to mass-murderers who are determined to vaporize Jews. They also can't seem to understand that the IDF has every right to protect the citizens of Israel. Of course to them, Israeli lives are not worth very much. I have no sympathy for any of them, and I am not a heartless person. I simply don't care about them, pretty much the same way they don't care about me and mine.

And I don't care how much vehemence they puff up against the accusations that the two British Muslims were not connected to them, I don't believe it, not for a minute. What, the two of them happened across their offices by some strange cosmic coincidence? Please. These people are dangerous (ISM) and should be treated as a threat to Israeli lives because that is exactly what they are. They need to be deported immediately. Israel made the mistake of letting them in in the first place, but it's not too late to turn that around. Worse still to me is that the parents allow their children to do this. Sickening.

55 Caton  Tue, May 6, 2003 12:14:50am

#54 zulubaby

Worse still to me is that the parents allow their children to do this. Sickening.

The worst thing for me is that the parents allow (or even encourage) their dead children to be used again and again as propaganda tools. If they had any love for them, do you think they'd be able to do it?

In a way, I'm sorry for Rachel Corrie. With so little care, and so little love, no wonder she became such a hateful bitch.

56 zulubaby  Tue, May 6, 2003 12:17:30am

Thanks for the hat tip, Charles.

57 zulubaby  Tue, May 6, 2003 12:27:24am

Caton,

You make a good point. They allow their children to be used as symbols of all that is wrong in this world. But notice that there are always far fewer 'photos of Jewish funerals or Jewish mourners than there are of the Palestinians. There are never 'photos of Jewish victims in death. Notice the close-up and personals of the Palestinians. I find it repulsive. There is no dignity and no respect afforded the dead, but rather these very public displays of insanity, wailing and shooting into the air and chanting "death to Israel". It's so far away from what I know that I cannot possibly begin to understand it.

58 Caton  Tue, May 6, 2003 12:28:51am

#57 zulubaby

Remember Sting song, "Russians"?

Palestinians and their supporters don't love their children too.

59 Caton  Tue, May 6, 2003 12:33:00am

#57 zulubaby

Let me expand on this...

I hate Arabs, I loathe Muslims, I have nothing but contempt for Islam. My wife shares my feelings, for similar reasons. We are doing everything we can to raise our children without that hate, because we know how damaging that is.

Arabs hate Jews. They raise their children to hate Jews. They don't care enough for their children to keep that hate to themselves. Instead, they transmit it in full, knowing that they are damaging their kids.

One thing is clear for me: they don't love their children.


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