It should come as no surprise that this site is hosted in Greece. The Greeks are quite possibly the most anti-semitic people in Europe (and we know that there's some serious competition for that title).

Prediction: This thread will become the ultimate troll magnet....

And reason number 1 for Palestinians to kill Jews: The Jews had the temerity to build their Temple and other holy sites underneath Al Aqsa Mosque and other Muslim holy sites.

#3- twice! LOLOL

Re: #3

Perfect! I wish I had thought of it.

We need Ranbutan to figure out this list.

At the root of islam is mohamies demand to kill Jews for humiliating him, by not recognising he was a prophet for the Jewish people. How can there ever be a peace treaty when that is one of islams core issues.

To call this a peace process or roadmap to peace is as absurd as islam means peace. Who out there really believes once islam has its way and destroys israel, peace will break out in the ME? What has islam done to show the world it has a serious interest in peaceful co-existance? I would like to see a list.

Here is a great idea that I recieved via email but can not attribute to the original source

"The most elegant solution yet - folks this can work!!

I think I have the perfect solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Since the Palestinians want a homeland and it doesn't seem that chopping Israel up even smaller than it already is, is a satisfactory solution. Let's give France to the Palestinians!

The French have already stated that nothing is worth fighting for. Besides, France has better irrigation and soil than the West Bank and Gaza strip. It’s the perfect solution. The French won't even fight back. And how about a new name for this Franco-Palestine? How about Frankenstine? Send this to all of your friends. Let there be peace on Earth and let it begin with the French."

Is it possible to fix a culture? That is really what the war is being fought against. My favorite idiocy is the idea of giving the Palis F-16s and helicopters- that way they can have a realy efficient mechanism to attack civilians! And that leaves aside the fate of any pilot dumb enough to go against the IAF- all part and parcel of the same amazing massive delussion. Failure is guaranteed.

Sounds like the ravings of an angry teenager.

It's clear by now that the tide is turning against the suicide bombers. The IDF is foiling more and more attacks almost daily.

[Link: www.idf.il...]

[Link: www.idf.il...]

8. They can lend the Palestinians some Cobras and F-16's if they don't like human bombs and rocks

Why don't their Arab brethren do this? Oh, yeah, because they would get their [hindquarters] kicked again.

... support for the human bombs tactic runs upwards of ninety percent on the Arab street. Indeed... [many] more of them [are] needed.

But, but, it's un-Islamic! It must be all those intolerant Christian and agnostic and gay Arabs.

Ugh, someone would need wader overalls to fisk that list of horse puckey.

Just two questions:

Should the Israelis provide training along with the aircraft? Or would the aircraft become playground equipment?

and

Are the ethnically uncleansed Israeli Arabs kosher targets as well?

Atleast he calls them in their real name "human bombs" rather than "martyrs". Also, I tend to appreciate people like that. they do not lie about their intentions, like Arafat or Abu-Mazen do. They're honest on what they're after. The destruction of Israel and murder of jews.

I like the link to something called the "Association against Zionism & Racism." wtf?

This is good stuff: An American citizen, Rachel Corrie, with the highest and noblest motivations, sought to prevent Zionist slaughter and terrorism towards the Palestinian people and was blatantly murdered by the Zionists. Indeed, when the U.S. issued declarations to its citizens not only to leave Iraq, but to leave Zionist-Occupied Palestine as well, it was obvious that the U.S. was warning its citizens of the probable consequences of any attempt to stand in the way of U.S. or Zionist murderous aims. Human shields, whatever their citizenship and however peaceful their actions, will be murdered by the U.S. and the Zionists, whenever they stand in the way.

Bwahahahahahahaha!

arent there 1000s of these?
BTW israel needs to regain the independence of its so called by this dude "colonies".

Freearabvoice: Try using punctuation.

They must understand somehow that Palestinian blood is not cheap

Funny - I thought it was... All these "honour" killings, suicide bombings, etc.

Must be my imagination...

I'm not surprised this site is registered in Greece. Greece is probably the most antisemitic country in the European Union. I've travelled there often and it's the only country you'll find books by David Duke and similar hatemongers available for sale in regular bookshops, particularly in the summertime open-air bookstalls located in most Greek tourist resorts. The Greeks may detest Turkish Muslims but they love the Arab ones. Many also loathe Americans - and certainly 'took a little holiday in their heart' on 9/11 to celebrate the destruction of the World Towers. 'They had it coming to them' ('Kala na pathoun', in Greek) was probably the typical reaction both of 'left wing' and 'right wing' Greeks.

But don't worry too much. Greeks aren't reproducing their species so in 50 years time there won't be too many of them left. Though I suppose the country will then be mainly inhabited by Turkish, Kurdish, Pakistani and Arab immigrants ....

LOL. Greece isn't the most anitsemic country in the EU. France is. I've been to Cairo, and I've been to Paris, and Paris is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse.
Froggystan is the center of world antisemitism.

Agreed. I was in Greece for a few days a couple years ago, and within that short time had several people explain to me how CNN is controlled by Israel . Yeh, right. They pride themselves for having invented the toilet system a few thousand years back, but it never occurs to them that they haven't improved on it since . For god's sake, you're expected to put your used toilet paper in the trash because the toilets can't flush it. Blech!

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

1. They are occupying by force land which doesn't belong to them

1) According to the Paleostinians, all the land that was purchased legally and paid for by individuals, Jewish organizations, the nascent Israeli gov't, or by Jewish blood is "occupied" land. Heaven forbid an Infidel Jew own land in the middle-east.

2. They have ethnically cleansed the Palestinians from that

2) They left to "clean-up" and earn a windfall on a Jew free Palestine and are then sadly dissappointed. And all the rest of the Arab world have ethnically cleansed 650,000 Jews from their nations. Where is their justice.

3. After more than fifty years, they still refuse to let the Palestinians return to their land and property

3) Yes, we know you want to drive us into the sea, murder our children, and or subject us to dhimmitude, but we'll comply and let you back anyway. NOT!!!

4. They are objectively part of an imperialist colonial base in the heart of the Arab World

4) So people who reclaim their land after being forced off of it are colonialists? Hmmm.

5. They continue to kill and oppress the Palestinians daily

5) But the killing and oppression of the Jews by their Arab brothers for the past 85 years (yes, 25 years before there was an Israel) is a-ok. Gotcha.

6. They must understand somehow that Palestinian blood is not cheap

6) Palestinian blood is cheapened by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PLFP, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, etc., by murdering their own people who disagree with their methods, murdering innocent Israelies, and placing their own children in the firing line between themselves and the Israeli troops. Fu*king cowards!!!

7. They have been using the so-called peace process to consolidate their gains on the ground. 95 more colonies were built since the Oslo Agreement in 1993, not to mention bypass roads, in the West Bank and Gaza

7) And indoctrinating children into a bloody, genocidal philosophy is encouraged by Oslo? Please.

8. They can lend the Palestinians some Cobras and F-16's if they don't like human bombs and rocks

8) With the genocidal statements that originate in much of the Islamic world, I wouldn't give these murderers a pop-gun. Given greater military might, we would quickly see an attempt to murder all of the Israelis as quickly as possible. Yes, man, woman, and child are all equal targets as far as Palestinians are concerned. If only the Israelis acted with as much compuction, then there would indeed be no Palestinian Israeli conflic any more, now would there.

9. They have managed to convince the U.S. government and media that killing "Isreali" Jews is terrorism whereas the point-blank killings of Palestinian children and the assassinations of Palestinian freedom fighters are just 'mutual violence' and 'conflicting heritage claims'. Reality Check!

9) Yeah, like it's gonna take a lot to convince rational people, that accidentally killing a child who wanders into a combat zone, and intentionally killing children in their beds, school buses, and bus stops is the same? Freedom fighters, my arse! You want to be a freedom fighter? Then attack only military targets, and take your chances, and don't be a fu*king coward by blowing up defenseless civilians!

10. They can always choose to LEAVE if they don't like the few methods left to the Palestinians to liberate their land

10) You would like that wouldn't you? Stop dreaming and start facing reality. At some point, degrading your own people by turning them into human bombs will result in the destruction of your society. Some are already starting to notice, but perhaps too late. One day it will dawn on you, the mistakes you made. Hopefully it will not take you 1800 years to learn that lesson, and find a homeland.

Ninety-five more colonies? Funny, I thought they were settlements.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Note: This is not some 'extremist' position. Palestinian and Arab opinion polls, on Al Jazeera.net for example, indicated in the past that support for the human bombs tactic runs upwards of ninety percent on the Arab street. Indeed, such human bombs are not only justified. Much more of them is needed.

These sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sicks sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sicks sick fucks are a joke.
As much nefarious and cancerous progress as they have made in Europe (ha, big surprise) these retards will never win over Western thought, because Western thought is not about the stupid lefties and their Socialvik progandization and whitewashing of despotic dictators.
Western thought is about ethics, law, free markets, "to be or not to be" religious freedom, humanity, and knowledge.
As frightened and as sickened as I am by the practitioners of true Islam, I am heartened by the fact that Western ingenuity and love of freedom will win out.
Sorry Islamonazis, but you can't turn back time. True Western nations will never join your sick, twisted death cult. We will never bow to your tyranny and irrational hatred of all that is good and free. Your megalomania and arrogant disdain for free people--be they Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostics or Scientologists--will come back to haunt you.
No matter how you spin it, toss it, or flip it, some cultures, morés, and belief sets are wrong. You can call me "racist" or jingoistic or whatever you like, but the fact remains that any culture or religion that encourages the murder of innocents, proselytization, slavery, pedophilia, racism, torture, hatred, genocide, and suicide should go the way of the Dodo.

Here's the Editorial (sic) Board of FAV:
Editors: Ibrahim Alloush Editor@freearabvoice.org
Nabila Harb Harb@freearabvoice.org
Muhammad Abu Nasr Nasr@freearabvoice.org
Arabic Section: Maha Abu Ghosh arabi@freearabvoice.org
Webmaster: Abu Nicola Al Yunani abunicola@freearabvoice.org
[Link: www.freearabvoice.org...]

This is great stuff!

Charles Copeland #18 But don't worry too much. Greeks aren't reproducing their species so in 50 years time there won't be too many of them left. Though I suppose the country will then be mainly inhabited by Turkish, Kurdish, Pakistani and Arab immigrants ....

The Greeks have a myth that they are pure blood descendants of Pericles and Leonidas. They refuse to recognise Macedonia, in case it be confused with the Greek Macedonia of Alexander. Of course in those days Macedonians were looked on as Barbarian warmongers. In reality Greeks are primarily of Turkish and Balkan blood. And they REALLY hate if you point this out.

Trying to determine the most antisemitic country in Europe is a lost cause. Just when you think you know another Brown Shirt sympathizer raises his/her ugly head. You see, the thing is, you can't ever be wrong because they're all antisemitic! What possible difference can it make if one is more antisemitic than another? It's like arguing that it is better to be killed this way instead of that way. By the way, anyone hear any recent speeches coming from George Bush condemning the world-wide resurgence of antisemitism?

Lumiere

Ah! Now we know where the Indymidiots get at least some of their delusions... I was going to wallop this with the Spiked Club of Reality, but kayawanee said everything I would have. That's a mighty fine fiskin'.

BTW #6 Mike O please don't say that, it's like saying "Beetlejuice" three times: Not a good thing. No, not at all.

wait... I love "Mediterranean" food, but to assuage my conscience about supporting murderous America- and Jew-haters, I stopped patronizing the Arab-run establishments in favor of the Greek ones. Now am I to understand Greeks are just as bad? :( Where will I get my balaklava and falafel now?

19 OnlyInIsrael

How long did you stay in France? one or two days?
What's your method of ranking?

I say that, I'm French. And not antisemit of course. And during all my life (25 years), I never heard ANYBODY in my surrounding critisizing Jews for being Jew or calling Jews by names.
some people of the old generation (>70) and some muslims are but in post-war generation, we are not.

Site: freearabvoice.org

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Charles

I haven't visited that "vile hate site" and do not intend to, but this top ten list seems pretty mainstream to me. How many of these items do you think Mahmoud Abbas would disagree with? And I don't mean in private, I mean openly.

In his Inaugural Address last month, Abbas was clear as can be that the Intifada represented heroic resistance and that the Palestinian Arabs' misery was the direct result of Israeli aggression and occupation.

In his address, Abbas also expressly calls the 10,000 Palestinian Arabs presently being detained by Israel "honorable heroes," and vows to work for their release.

vbo (#29). I was in France in 98, with my family, I was there for 5 days. I always have a star of david necklace on my neck. In france, a man approached to me ( I was 13 and this was my barmitzvah trip) and ripped it off my neck, and threw it to the sewer. And continued on.
When we came back to the hotel, the hotel said they were unaware we're Israelis and asked us to move out (don't ask me for the name of the hotel, i have no idea). The only reason we remained there was because it was our last night in France.

This is not some 'extremist' position. Palestinian and Arab opinion polls, on Al Jazeera.net for example, indicated in the past that support for the human bombs tactic runs upwards of ninety percent on the Arab street.

Oh yeah, baby, and all those from the "arab street" now living in America are just peaceful arabs with whoole different mentality-

You betchya. Man i love the diversity visa.

#32 OnlyInIsrael

Doesn't surprise me. A sure way to be attacked is to use the Paris public transport while wearing a kippa.

#32 OnlyInIsrael

vbo (#29). I was in France in 98, with my family, I was there for 5 days. I always have a star of david necklace on my neck. In france, a man approached to me ( I was 13 and this was my barmitzvah trip) and ripped it off my neck, and threw it to the sewer. And continued on. When we came back to the hotel, the hotel said they were unaware we're Israelis and asked us to move out (don't ask me for the name of the hotel, i have no idea). The only reason we remained there was because it was our last night in France.

[sarcasm]
I'm shocked, absolutely shocked to discover that there is anti-semitism in France. That simply can't be! The French are enlighted! And the fact that this occurred in 1998--a full two years before the intifada, at time of relative peace in Israel, says that the author MUST be lying. After all French anti-semitism only rears its ugly head when violence and tension are high in the Zionist Entity.
[/sarcasm]

I am really sorry for you, OnlyInIsrael. That had to be a pretty traumatic experience. Typical French anti-semitism disguised as anti-zionism. Some have to experience first hand to understand its scope. Sorry it had to be you.

Sooner or later, if the immigrant scale keeps going on, the US will be pressured into considering, for the first time, a choice between domestic peace and support of Israel.

Those of you who think differently should consider just how many muslims in the US and Canada send money back to their "families" in the middle east and africa while they await "importation" to the US.

This site just gets more foul the longer I look at it:

In short, we have nothing to apologize for here. On the contrary, those who claim to support us, but only on conditions such as condemning the human bombs tactic, accepting the myths of the Hollowcause,. and reassuring Jews that their presence on our land is legitimate, even desirable, are not really supporting us at all. They are indirectly asking us to embrace their frame of mind so they can support us. But what does that really mean? Does it mean that they are supporting us or that we are supporting them?! Who gains here? Who loses? Think about it this way: we gain their support if we agree to lose ourselves.

... I believe we can never win over public opinion in the enemy camp by losing ourselves, i.e., by ceding beforehand the alleged 'right' of the Jews in Palestine, under the banner of a racist or a non-racist "israel". Palestine is occupied land. What we are facing there is not just the usual invading army, but a whole settler-invader entity. Thus, each part of that entity proclaimed in 1948 is illegitimate, and is consequently a legitimate target. We were not invaded only by soldiers to be stepping out of line when we target more than soldiers here.. This is not to mention that soldiers are much more inaccessible.

Similarly, if we help expose the hoax of the gas chambers, we do not risk sounding 'anti-semiticist'. We just help unmask the mantra of Jewish/Zionist power worldwide, and thereof, the alleged need for a Jewish 'safe haven' in Palestine....

For a good discussion from a specialist on the non-existence of the gas chambers, and the need for an international commission to investigate Aushwitz, see part three of the following paper:
[Link: www.freearabvoice.org...]

....However, if you disagree and feel that we need to 'play politics' instead, then at least let's agree that just like Zionists use their alleged need to appease hard-liners in their camp to extract this or that extra concession out of you, that you too should probably do the same. And that's just for getting a small part of what you want. It's a Jewish world out there..

[Link: www.freearabvoice.org...]

In france, a man approached to me ( I was 13 and this was my barmitzvah trip) and ripped it off my neck,

notice the coward picked on a child- typical Lefty shit, typical bigot.

"LOL. Greece isn't the most anitsemic country in the EU. France is. I've been to Cairo, and I've been to Paris, and Paris is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse."

There is one distinction: antisemitism in France is mainly Arab-driven. There are only a handful of native French antisemites, even among the National Front supporters (the National Front actually has a Jewish section). In Greece, however, antisemitism is widespread e.g. among Orthodox clergy and even in some cases among the 'educated' classes. Example: last month a Greek acquaintance of mine (PhD in physics) suggested that instead of bombing Iraq, Bush should have bombed Israel. That's a Greek 'joke'. And by the way, the only Jew Greeks adore is Noam Chomsky.

There are exceptions - a handful of brave journalists who have tried to swim against the current, even if only by trying to explain that the Israelis or Americans might 'have a point' ... but they have been hounded down and vilified by most of the mass media.

France sucks, but Greece sucks even more.

warmonger(#1)

I agree with you, contra Only in Israel (#19). This is based on experience of having been in Greece while assigned to the Sixth Fleet.

During my tour, the Rabbi assigned to the Staff went to rededicate the synagogue in Chania (Crete). He was met by a group of protesters who were led by Orthodox priests A big flap ensued, but the dedication went off anyway. While they may not be as violent as the French have been lately, anti-Semitism runs deep there.

On another trip to Rhodes, I visited the synagogue there, now completely abandoned except for a very elderly Jewish lady who acts as caretaker. She is a Holocaust survivor who told about her experience of being rounded up with the rest of the Jews in Rhodes and taken to Germany. Her group was being driven from place to place away from advancing American forces. The only reason they survived was because the Germans abandonded them in the night, leaving behind enough potatos from their rations to survive until the Americans arrived. (She told this story in Italian, and I had the chance to translate it for the Rabbi and a group of American Jewish tourists.) She told us that most of the survivors and descendents of the Rhodes Jews live in the Los Angeles area, and that she was the only one left in Rhodes.

Let's also remember the support Greece expressed for the recent weasel-sponsored EU defense initiative.

The Greeks may not be as violent, Only in Israel, as the French are. But they're big time seethers.

#32 OnlyInIsrael

wtf? Why didn't you go to the police? I know plenty of russian-american Jewish (from the time I worked in the US), 15 of them came in France to visit (one stayed 6 months) and none report me on problems.

You must have been very very unlucky. Or you see things I can't see because I'm not Jewish.

I must admit that I'm very surprised at what you tell me. Especially the hotel thing. I mean, we are not in 1939.

I'm sitting here in my hotel watching the White House briefing with Ari speaking. The press are asking some tough questions about the Saudi terror connection! What is going on? The press has flip-flopped into LGFers!

#38 Robert Brandtjen

notice the coward picked on a child- typical Lefty shit, typical bigot.

How did you "guess" that the guy was from left?

#42
How's Helen Thomas taking it?

#44 et
Not a peep out of the old cow.

From an article by the illustrious Abu Nicola al Yunani on another website>

If the U.S. attacks, there will be three possible outcomes: A defeat that will lead to the end of the American empire, and of the world as we know it now (I consider this to be the most probable outcome, especially after yesterday). A coup inside Iraq, or a capitulation by the Iraqi leadership, that will lead to a victory for the U.S. without a fight. A victory for the U.S. after a long war... So IF THERE IS A WAR, it will probably be a long and bloody one.

Duh, three possible outcomes: a war where the U.S. loses, a war where the U.S. wins, or a coup. Wow, is this guy astute or what?!?
More ho hum, "U.S. Zionist cowards who blindly follow the G.S. Bush into battle to defeat the impoverished of mankind" bull$.
If he ever had to use a snotsucker, he'd lose his mind, I'm afraid.

#41 vbo

I must admit that I'm very surprised at what you tell me. Especially the hotel thing. I mean, we are not in 1939.

Well, more like between 1933 & 1936. It is indeed a very dangerous time. Just bad enough to recognize that something is wrong, but not bad enough yet to realize how bad it could become and decide to leave.

It may not seem bad to you because you're not Jewish. Why don't you take some time out to interview some Jews, maybe a Rabbi, or someone active in the local temple, and find out how their lives are going.

#47 kayawanee

Pulling his head out of his ass would suffice. Some weeks ago a Rabbi was stabbed, then his car burned while he was in hospital. What did you hear on the TV news? That the Rabbi was suspected of having stabbed himself.

Move on, nothing to see, there's no anti-semitism in France. Sure.

Who else is excited about the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens? I have a feeling that event is going to go very, very well.

#48 Caton

#47 kayawanee - Some weeks ago a Rabbi was stabbed, then his car burned while he was in hospital. What did you hear on the TV news? That the Rabbi was suspected of having stabbed himself.

That sounds eerily familiar like 9/11 being perpetrated by GWB and the CIA or the recent terrorist attacks in SA being the result of Mossad agents.

I see was you mean. Nope, no anti-semitism here.

35 kayawanee

Typical French anti-semitism disguised as anti-zionism.

Well, it wasn't disguised at all. There is probably a better way to defend zionism than weak argumentation like this ("tying every racist act with Israel thus dismise every critic at Israel as racist").

I think that you can defend you ideas better and you won't fight antisemitism like this.

Today, in occidental countries, is it possible to critisise Israel (for anything) in the public sphere (medias) without being called anti-semitic?
Answer is no.

It sounds good but I don't think it is at all, because it breads antisemitic feelings IMO (just the opposite of what's looking for) by keeping the debate close.

Plus, Israel is subject to critics like any other countries (no more or less).

What's your opinion about this?

#49 Dave Himrich

Who else is excited about the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens? I have a feeling that event is going to go very, very well.

All I know is that the Israelis better provide all (and I do mean ALL ) of the security for their own athelets, because if the Greeks provide security, we're gonna be looking at another 1972 Munich Games.

#51 vbo

Plus, Israel is subject to critics like any other countries (no more or less).

As far as I am concerned, this discussion is over.

GAZE

I think Charles has testicular fortitude, exposing these guys' names and details like that. It makes it personal and that takes guts.

#48 Caton

Pulling his head out of his ass would suffice.

Is insults your way of fighting antisemitism?

In relation to Cornwall/Wales and Muslims in the UK:

Point 1 - In 430 AD - the whole of "England" was under the control of Celtic Kings. These lands were invaded by a foreign people the Angles Saxons Jutes etc. The muslims now occupy these lands. TICK

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Point 2 - refer to above- there are now only 11 words of the Brythonic Celtic language as spoken before the invasion of 430AD in the English language. Muslims are now the occupiers and have benefited from the indigenous peoples disposession. TICK

Point 3 - After more than 150 - 80 years of expulsion the Cornish are still no longer allowed to return to their lands - witness my 2 year working holiday maker visa in the UK. TICK

Point 4 - The muslims are voters and willing participants in the English parliamentary system and have willingly come here to squat on another peoples land. The English Imperial parliament controls Wales and Cornwall not the Welsh or Cornish.

[Link: www.cornish-stannary-parliament.abelgratis.com...]

Point 5. whilst not killing Cornish today - the lack of control over services and economics consitutes a form of oppression. In addition there is a covert program to eliminate Cornishness as a state of existence. Do the muslims and their organisations in fact
promote, or acquiesce to -

01 the misconception that Cornwall is, somehow, in England?
02 the misconception that the Cornish are, somehow, English?
03 the use of English symbolism in Cornwall?
04 the denial of intrinsically Cornish symbolism?
05 the demeaning description of Cornwall as 'the county' and its denial as 'the two counties'?
06 the submergence of Cornwall within an English Westcountry, etc., ad nauseum?
07 the denial of a Cornish historical existence?
08 the denial of a Cornish cultural experience
They are culpable to genocide. TICK

Point 6. They must understand that they are beneficiaries of a conquest. That those of the Cornish diaspora refused entry into a port of Britain will not be going away quietly. TICK

Point 7. The muslims as citizens under the English crown are allowed to settle west of the Tamar in Cornwall. This facilitates the dienfranchisement and genocide of the Cornish. As they are forced to look elsewhere to live as house prices are driven up and the old way of life is destroyed.]. The message on immigration (referred to as 'in-migration') is that if we have any concern, at all, for our Cornish Identity then the immigration must stop! The book draws attention to the fact that it is now difficult to assimilate second generation immigrants and in a section on 'Ethnicide by default', it is stated:

"In 1951 over 70% of the people of Cornwall had been born in Cornwall and in 1961, with continuing population decline, no doubt nearer 80% would have regarded themselves as Cornish. By 1981, after two decades of rapid growth, the percentage of native Cornish among the population was probably around 55%. By 2001, at the present rate, that proportion will be more like 45%...
...The Cornish can trace their heritage back 2,000 years or more, and yet the links between them and that heritage are now in danger of being snapped - and that in the space of just 50 years." TICK

Point 8. The muslims can lend us some suicide bombers if they don't like name calling/questioning in the street. TICK

Point 9. They have managed to convince the likes of Cherie Blair and others of the Left like our friend Brixtonian that the muslims are an oppressed minority and deserve funding. Whilst an ancient indigenous culture is actively wiped out. TICK [Link: www.cornish-stannary-parliament.abelgratis.com...]

Point 10 - They can always leave if they don't like the methods used and can legitimately be used to restore national and territorial sovereignty. Ie I intimidate the muslim immigration officer at Heathrow next time he questions me in the Non-EU line. TICK

Note this is not some extremist position. The Conrish people are subject to an isidious covert genocide of their way of life and identity. Incidents such as the theft of English heritage signs are supported right around the world. Indeed such actions should be increased.

[Link: www.cornish-stannary-parliament.abelgratis.com...]

Later Crusade Now

Though the web site is registered in Greece, the owner doesn't necessarily live there.

There is a Dr. Ibrahim Alloush from Amman, Jordan, who is very cozy with the "Revisionists" and Holocaust Deniers.

I think this is the same guy. Here he is in Jerusalem Indymedia talking about his arrest in Jordan last month. Note that he signs off "Later - Ibrahim Alloush" as he does on the piece above.

This guy is beyond vile. In the IHR interview above (IHR is an asylum for "Revisionist" dingbats) he claims that belief in the Holocaust is a virus that the Arab mind is "naturally resistant" to.

Today, in occidental countries, is it possible to critisise Israel (for anything) in the public sphere (medias) without being called anti-semitic?Answer is no.

Peace activist faces deportation
Israeli army
The Israeli army has been tightening security in Gaza

A Belfast woman is facing deportation from Israel after she was arrested in the West Bank at the weekend.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

GAZE

#post 56 Should be referred to as 10 REASONS WHY MUSLIMS ARE HALAL TARGETS

A great quote for just this space-

"The American Left is the only
intellectual force in Western history to gain moral superiority
by being wrong. In world history, I can think of only one other
movement that has gained moral and intellectual superiority in
this way, the mullahs of Islamic fundamentalism." --R. Emmett

#43-

How did you "guess" that the guy was from left?

because in Europe, the Left are those who cry for vindication of the errors of their ways by blaming those who cannot fight back. A tactic that is becoming the norm in America now as well.

In other words, the Left in Europe have destroyed their economies, have destroyed their cultures by importing those who would destroy it and are now (as ever) looking for a cheap scape goat. The Jews have long been a scape goat in Europe and so they are again. Next, a "conservative" attacks you on your ideas and methodology, a Leftist attacks you on your human persona. As Lefties tend to be cowards at heart- forever asking someone else to do their bidding, they surely would not have the courage to physically attack a full grown man of same or similar stature, thus, he would attack a child.

Make sense?

Found this interesting quote from article, "Suicide Bomber was a Gentle Sufi Mystic"

The act of suicide bombing as we understand it now does not have its roots in religion but in political movements such as that of the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, most of whose members are Hindus, who have historically carried out far more suicide attacks than any Muslims or Palestinians. The search for the Islamic roots of this 21st-century phenomenon is therefore senseless...

It's the pagans that make 'em do it. Interesting note: the distinction between Muslims and Palestinians.

#51 vbo

Consider this:

I own a hotel in NYC and a Frenchman decides to stay there. You were registered when someone else was at the desk, but once I found out you were from France, I decided I didn't want you there, and told you to leave. This is because of my deep feelings about the gov't of France and it's activities in certain African nations.

But that Frenchman had nothing specifically to do with those activities. I'm judging him for his affiliation not his character. Prejudging a person based on their nationality, race, creed, color, religion etc. is called BIGOTRY.

Now in the scenario we were presented with, this girl was asked to leave a French hotel because she is Israeli. Now assuming for a moment that this actually DID happen, I would call this bigotry.

Because of the identity of Israel (i.e. the Jewish State), the bigotry is aimed it Jews.

Bigotry aimed at Jews is usually called:

ANTI-SEMITISM

Now, if you think I'm using the term inaccurately or inappropriately, you can call this whatever you want, but it's bigotry none the less. If it makes you feel better to consider this "Anti-Israeli bigotry", then be my guest, but it doen't change the fact that it's prejudice.

Boycotting a nation's goods may make a statement, but denying a person service because of their country of origin stinks to high heaven. It smelled bad in the lunch counters of the southern U.S. states in the 1950's, and it doen't smell any better today.

Greeks are 1 step up from arabs. I should know, plenty of Greek HYPHEN Australians. I think only the religion is the difference. Though some of the thought processes and definitely the chauvanism of Islam is noticeable in Orthodox greeks. Its funny but when they hit their 30s they suddenly actually care about Australia where they live and forget that Greece is their country.

#18, Charles Copeland

I found a book with the title "Kala na pathoun" as you mentioned "they had it coming" that catalogues all the unbelievable junk told after 9/11 in Greece: typical left and right, anti-west, and anti-american, jews control the world, sentiments. Its actually one of the few books that is critical of the blind anti-west neurosis of many Greeks, too bad it is not translated in English yet.

They had it coming- the greek public opinion after 9/11 (marvel at the poster)

I found a commie/marxist magazine that has articles from this "intellectual" Ibrahim Alloush, and some other stars (Chomsky).

The latest issue is all about the imperialist war of empire USA trying to steal the iraqi OIL!!!
The address is [Link: www.ardin.gr,...] but its really not worth our precious time.

vbo #51,

Today, in occidental countries, is it possible to critisise Israel (for anything) in the public sphere (medias) without being called anti-semitic?

Let's look at the Middle East section of Le Monde. Here's the article about Israel. First paragraph:

Ariel Sharon ne désarme pas. Quelques heures à peine après le départ du secrétaire d'Etat américain, Colin Powell, venu, en vain, l'inciter à adopter la "feuille de route" censée mener à la création d'un Etat palestinien en 2005, le premier ministre israélien a tenu à rassurer la frange la plus extrémiste de son gouvernement et de son opinion publique.

So, according to Le Monde:
1) Israel is putting a road block in the Road Map because Ariel Sharon talked about keeping some land in the West Bank
2) Colin Powell came in vain thanks to the Israeli obstructionism

Note that there is no mention of the various palestinian genocide bombers who have killed Israelis in the last few days; these are not a road block to the road map, again according to Le Monde. Scrolling down, the article fails to mention any palestinian culpability for anything, and then comes up with this:

C'est dans ce climat que des responsables palestiniens ont annoncé la tenue d'une rencontre, samedi 17 mai, entre Mahmoud Abbas (alias Abou Mazen), le premier ministre palestinien, et M. Sharon.

So, under this climate of repression, poor, innocent M. Abbas is going to meet the rapacious M. Sharon. Again, there was no mention of the genocide bombers. In fact, there's no mention of any palestinian actions at all in this article - from this article, you'd think all palestinians were little doe-eyed angels.

Let's look at your initial statement again:

Today, in occidental countries, is it possible to critisise Israel (for anything) in the public sphere (medias) without being called anti-semitic?

So, we're left with a few possible conclusions:

1) France is not part of the Occident
2) Le Monde is antisemitic
3) Your statement is false

I'd lean to a combination of 2&3 personally.

In general, all antisemites are critical of Israel. Most critics of Israel are antisemites - but there are those who are not. It is possible to criticize Israel without being antisemitic as long as you are consistent and criticize the palestinians for their actions in proportion with how bad the various parties' actions are.

vbo, how about you do an experiment. Take a satr of david chain, and walk with it in the streets of paris. See if anyone makes any remark.
Also, to all those claiming that Antisemitism in france is driven by arabs, that's NONSENSE. The french culture is xenophobic (no, I dont' hate french folks, I do think their culture sucks). They hate foreigners, Jews, Arabs, Blacks, Chinese, they don't CARE.
The difference is, noone messes with arabs, since arab immigrants will bring their "hamula" (extended family) for rightfull payback. The jews won't do that.
And Le pen's attempt to show himself as a supporter of Israel and jews, is quite clear. The guy who called teh gas chambers "a lie" and the holocaust "a tiny trivial bit of WW2 history" doesn't love jews. Sorry I don't buy that.
And as for the French policy, which leans towards the arabs, it's not for the french liking arabs. The french politicians go where the money is. And trust me, when arabs run out of oil, the french will screw them, and screw them well.

And as for the guy who ripped my necklace off? He was white, caucasian, not an arab.

#67 OnlyInIsrael

I don't think vbo is around this thread anymore. He/She in #51 accused me of throwing the "anti-semitism" term around too loosely, but never responded to my response in #63.

Personally, I don't think vbo is ready to take the chance that his/her world view may be completely wrong. Interviewing Jews in France (as I suggest in post #47) or walking around Paris with a Star of David (as you suggest in post #67) would throw that world view into stark contrast with realty.

That just will not do!

#65 'Kala na pathoun'

Thanks Nikolakis. Actually, I read the book months ago - and it's a credit to your country that authors like Manolakis Vasilakis have the courage to publish critiques like this. Reading it, though, made me want to despair even in the country which is supposed to be the most westernised and humane of the Balkanasiatic world. As you say, it deserves to be translated into English.

Χαιρετισ&# 956;ους,
Carolos

i had a t-shirt as a teen that i got at the mall- from a place where you pick your iron on decal and the color of your shirt. from a distance it looked like the coca-cola logo with hebrew letters. upside down and backwards it said "go fuck yourself". i'd like to have that shirt again...

maybe michael moore's next movie should explore racism in the world. he could don a kipah and stand on a subway platform in paris while the cameras roll...

#66 Ariel

You missed the worst part:

le premier ministre israélien a tenu à rassurer la frange la plus extrémiste de son gouvernement et de son opinion publique.

Which translates to

the Israeli prime minister wanted to reassure the most extremist fraction of his government and his public opinion.

...because everybody knows the Israeli government is neatly divided into an extremist part and a most extremist fraction. So is the Israeli public opinion.

#68 kayawanee

no no no I'm coming back. I don't know if my view are completely wrong. I'm willing to discuss them. Are you ready to discuss yours. At first sight, I would say no, I don't get the feeling it's possible to discuss here. I didn't feel like being an extremist though before coming to this blog. All is relative I guess.

Look, I'm not muslim, I'm not Jew, I'm supposed to be catholic or something but I'm mainly atheist.

I'm French but not nationalist. I take pride about my culture, but apart from football game, I don't feel like waving a tricolor flag.
I can see the bad things of my country's history and having travelled and lived long times in foreign countries I have some understanding of the existence of different values than mine.

And somehow, I can feel that some people on this board are not very open-minded. No offense.

63 kayawanee

Agree with all of what you say, but what's the common point with what I said?

I was not trying to defend the guy who put the 13 year old boy out of the hotel. This is antisemitism. Agree 100%.
But if I say: "Ariel sharon is wrong to support settlements" Is it antisemitism for you?

#74 vbo

Got a reason for that, or are you just repeating the PLO line?

Let's rephrase this: is your opposition to the settlements a logical one, with a reason for it, or is it just an emotional one? If there's a reason, pray tell.

#67 OnlyInIsrael

I have none of these things. But if you come back in Paris, I invite you in my flat and I'll come with you. I put my email adress.

75 Caton

This is not the point. I have no definite opinion about it. Nonetheless under a veil of ignorance, taking 2 population A and B, I would tend to advice population A to remove its settlements in B territory if it was one of the easiest concessions to achieve peace.

You didn't answer my question.

Caton #71,

Yeah, I noticed the bit about "the most extremist" faction - but I thought the case was pretty clear even without that.

vbo,

You can feel free to respond to #66 as well. I took a point of yours and addressed it in detail. Clear citations, factual backup, etc. This is what is expected in order to have a rational conversation.

You wrote #73:

And somehow, I can feel that some people on this board are not very open-minded. No offense.

This is undoubtedly true. However, if you are going to take a position, please feel free to defend it. For example, in your #74, you wrote:

But if I say: "Ariel sharon is wrong to support settlements" Is it antisemitism for you?

But you provide no reasoning as to why this is the case. Clearly there are non-antisemitic reasons for not supporting the settlements. Just as clearly, there are antisemitic reasons for not supporting the settlements.

#61 Robert Brandtjen

Make sense?

Not at all.
In the Dreyfuss affair, early this century, who did defend the Jewish officer, the right or the left? try and guess.

Plus you say:
a Leftist attacks you on your human persona. As Lefties tend to be cowards at heart- forever

Find the paradox in the sentence above. Brilliant!

#77 vbo

So you have absolutely no logical reason. You don't know what is the role of those settlement. You don't know all Israeli governments have always supported settlements in disputed territories until a peace treaty is signed (see Sinai settlements for more information...). In addition you have swallowed the "their territories" PLO line. And you think this is fair criticism?

It works like this: fair criticism is informed criticism. Uninformed parroting of enemy propaganda is not fair criticism. In this particular case, it is anti-semitic, and will be unless and until you study the reasons for the settlements and come up with a logical, informed reason to criticize them.

Now, what was your question?

#78 Ariel

Clearly there are non-antisemitic reasons for not supporting the settlements. Just as clearly, there are antisemitic reasons for not supporting the settlements.

That's a response I enjoy. And I fully agree with it.

Sorry for not answering to #66, I missed it. In fact, I realise I missed it completely.

OK, I agree that Le Monde should have taken notice of the terrorist attack. I think that the main reason is not that Le Monde is anti-semitic but that:
In France, we don't understand/analyse possiible links between PLO and terrorist attacks. Don't ask me why, the main opinion is that suicide attacks are done by crazy people linked to extremist organisation like Hamas, but not PLO.
Does it make sense? But I know for not a long time that most israelis attribute terrorist attacks to PLO and then to Arafat and now Abbas. So I can understand the difference in our view. Of course, I have no idea of whom is behind these terrorist attack is and I believe the first person who delivers me information.

#80 Caton

So, what is the goal of these settlements? Inform me then.

#82 vbo

Two main reasons. Security outposts, and a negociation token. Remember what happened during the peace negociations with Egypt. Without the settlements, Egypt would never have agreed to stop funding the PLO and Hamas. And by withdrawing the settlements progressively, Israel could verify that Egypt was really cracking down on its terrorists instead of helping them enter Israel (as the did during the War of Attrition). Note that there is not one Jewish settlement in Sinai any more.

Now, each time the Palis increase their demands, the settlement activity increases accordingly. The reason the Palis want settlement activity suspended or stopped is that it allows them to increase their demands effectively for free. Lack of support of the settlements would be akin to throwing away half of the security of Israel (along with all strategic depths) and throwing away a third of the negociation tokens before even starting to talk.

A by-product is that, by showing how obsessed Arabs are in having a Judenrein area, while 1 million Israeli-Arabs live and vote in Israel, it proves the hypocrisy of the "racism" whiners, and the stupidity of those who swallow it. While we are at it, note that all Arab countries are effectively Judenrein.

#51 Plus, Israel is subject to critics like any other countries (no more or less).

There is no country in the world which is the target of more baseless slander, vilification and hatred than Israel.

In France, we don't understand/analyse possiible links between PLO and terrorist attacks. Don't ask me why, the main opinion is that suicide attacks are done by crazy people linked to extremist organisation like Hamas, but not PLO.

maybe a walk around the corner to the deli would remind them.

[Link: www.egadd.org...]

On August 9, 1982 two masked men burst into the Jo Goldenberg Jewish delicatessen and fired blindly, killing six, and wounding another 22 in a terrorist and anti-Semitic attack.

Attack planned by Abu Nidal, who is arriving in hell as we speak. He was part of the PLO.

vbo #81,

In France, we don't understand/analyse possiible links between PLO and terrorist attacks. Don't ask me why

I think I know why you don't ask that question. It's because you'd be uncomfortable with the answer. But I'll answer it for you below.

the main opinion is that suicide attacks are done by crazy people linked to extremist organisation like Hamas, but not PLO.
Does it make sense? But I know for not a long time that most israelis attribute terrorist attacks to PLO and then to Arafat and now Abbas.

OK, let me clear up a couple of things for you then. Arafat and Abbas are both among the co-founders of the group called Fatah, which means Conquest in Arabic. The group Fatah includes a group called the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades; Al Aqsa means Jerusalem in Arabic. Al Aqsa is the faction of Fatah that carries out most of Fatah's genocide bombings (what you call "suicide attacks"), most recently including the attack on Mike's Place in Tel Aviv.

To sum up: Al Aqsa < Fatah < Arafat/Abbas. You may say "most Israelis" attribute terrorist attacks to the PLO even though you don't. However, you should note that factions of the PLO are proud of their atrocities and openly admit to their sins.

I think that Caton in #83 made a really good description of why the settlements need to be kept. Let me add to it something I first read posted here, by SecHumanist (IIRC). The settlements in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza should only be dismantled if the refugee camps in the various Arab countries are dismantled and their populations assimilated. That would show an Arab willingness to live in peace with Israel more then almost anything else they could do.

#83 Two main reasons. Security outposts, and a negociation token.

There's a third reason: a permanent Jewish presence in Judea and Samaria. The settlements were not created just to be dismantled, that would be a very sinister ploy. The Israeli government cannot simply uproot tens of thousands of its citizens, especially people who are as deeply attached to the land as the religious Zionist movement. That's a recipe for civil war. I think that most settlements will remain inside the Palestinian state under some kind of joint administration.

#87 Nik

I'd agree with you but for one fact: during the peace negociations with Jordan, Israel was ready to hand over Judea and Samaria to Jordan and dismantle the settlements. Jordan would rather not have the Palis, of course...

Just like the settlements in Sinai were dismantled despite religious resistance in exchange for peace (sort of) with Egypt, any governement would dismantle the settlements in Judea and Samaria in exchange for peace (and Jerusalem).

Luckily, the Palis don't want peace, and neither do the other Arabs. I expect Israel to annex Judea, Samaria and Gaza in the next 10 years, and deport the Palis. This is the only thing that will convince the Arabs to really give peace a chance.

HEY! If there were registered to Dotster they'd be eligible for cancellation for providing false information cf. Boycott Hollywood.
But - nahhhhhh. It's only Islmonazis, not the Hollywood limousine liberal elite.

#8 claritydog

Besides, France has better irrigation and soil than the West Bank and Gaza strip.

Otherwise known as "how to turn a fertile country into a barren hate-choked wasteland." Yes the French seem to have enough hate to go around but they do love themselves enough. The refusegees don't even love themselves.

Side note to Charles:

Before you post, remember the LGF prayer:

Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

ROFLMAO

"8. They can lend the Palestinians some Cobras and F-16's if they don't like human bombs and rocks.

And if the "Palestinans" were given Cobras and F-16s this is what would happen:

1. A third of them would be instanttly pilfered in their packing crates to be sold to whoever wants them and the money deposited in the Swiss bank accounts of the PA bigwigs;

2. Most of the remainder would be rendered inoperable in months or weeks through lack of maintenance, outright neglect and technical incompetence;

3. The pilots for them would be selected according to whose family paid the biggest bribe and thus would be near useless;

4. The airbase where ever the operable planes were stationed would not be competently administered and thus totally vulnerable to IDFdestruction whenever it chose to do so, or to theft by some Hamas idiot with a pilot's license for a cropduster who would crash the plane on take-off ;

( Remember that in 1967 the numerically superior Egyptian air force of latest model Russian gifted MIGs was destroyed on the tarmacs because the IDF attack was timed for the moment the Egyptian pilots were having their morning coffee, taken ritually after their daily practice flights - the entire fighter fleet on whatever airbase had its practice runs AT THE SAME TIME. At at least one base the radar warning system had been broken for weeks )

It would be back to schoolgirls being strapped up with TNT and teenaged boys, hiding behind younger schoolboys throwing rocks, throwing Molotov cocktails within weeks.

Not that this was the first time that Jews were in "Palestine", but I always thought the first significant modern Jewish emmigration to what the Brittish two decades later came to call Palestine was in 1905, after the failed 1905 revolution in Russia. Many, perhaps most, had been active in that revolution, and disappointed at its failure, moved to the Middle East. I've never read or heard anything about the 1905 immigrants stealing the land, or getting it by any illegal means. If they had, I'm sure the ruling Ottoman Empire, being Muslim, wouldn't have had any problem disciplining, prosecuting, or expelling the offenders. The fact that they didn't says to me that everything was legit.
I wonder how "95% of the Arab street" feels about Kurd having the "right of return" to Mosul and Kirkuk? We're talking about a displacement here that was only 12 years in the past, not 55.

Ariel #86,

I think the Arab thinking on refugee camps is, while not openly copped to, as follows: If we assimilate the Palestinians, then Isreal will "get away with it", and nobody will be able to maintain a grudge. If I were a Palestinian living in Shatila, I wouldn't like to be forced to live there, just to make sure I kept a grudge and stayed pissed off for 55 years, but whatever.
Let's compare Shatila with Miami. Yeah, 44 years later, there are still some Pissed off, grudge holding Cuban-Americans, but most Cuban Americans are fully assimilated and okay with that, and the pissed off, grudge holding ones don't have the power to make the lives of the assimilated ones miserable.
If you're a Palestinian extremist contemplating the Miami solution, I suppose you could take perverse consolation in the fact that there are still Cuban Americans who work day and night for the destruction of Castro's regime, but ultimately I suppose, this isn't something for the Palestinians to decide, but the Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanian, Egyptians. Worried about a flood of assimilated Palestinians ruining the economy of the adopted countries? Their economies were (are) basket cases anyway.

#66

1) Israel is putting a road block in the Road Map because Ariel Sharon talked about keeping some land in the West Bank...
Note that there is no mention of the various palestinian genocide bombers who have killed Israelis in the last few days; these are not a road block to the road map, again according to Le Monde. Scrolling down, the article fails to mention any palestinian culpability for anything, and then comes up with this:

I heard the exact same line of "reasoning" being spouted by Linda Alban of ABC News this morning (05/19/2003) on WLS-AM Chicago. It was quite interesting that this so-called reporter cast aside her "objectivism" to sit there and excuse the Palestinian homocide bombers and bash Sharon over the American airwaves.

#91 BAGH

The first big Jewish influx into the southern end of the Ottoman vilayet ( province ) of Beirut, lands which were referred to in Europe as Palestine. was in the 1880's. Zionists call it the First Aliyah. The associated land purchases from Arab, Greek, Armenian or Turkish landowners was financially assisted by Baron Edmund de Rothschild - who paid top dollar as it was unpopular to sell to Jews so the obloquy attracted a premium.

But even before that 1880's influx, the largest single demographic group in Jerusalem in 1870 was the Jews. And they officially became an absolute majority in that city by 1885. Something the Arabs don't acknowledge when they speak of Al Quds.

The 1905-6 one you refer to was known as the Second Aliyah.
Both had a lot to do with Czarist policies, but it was the "May Laws" of 1882 that triggered the mass emigration to the US, UK and what has become the state of Israel. The May Laws were economic and educational restrictions targeting Jews, eg, Jews not allowed to buy land, not live in certain cities or within a certain distance of borders to foreign countries, no more than 10% of the student body of any institution could be Jewish even in a city where the population was 40% Jewish.