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Challenge to an LGF Basher

Fri, Aug 1, 2003 at 8:36:03 am PDT

Radley Balko has mounted yet another inept smear job on me personally and on LGF’s readers, saying that my “general thesis” is that “Arabs are vile, filthy, murdering animals.” I won’t even dignify that stupid straw-man ad hominem comment with a response.

But in addition to the personal attack, this time Balko has crossed a bigger line, alleging that an LGF reader sent him an “email death threat.”

I think he’s lying. I don’t believe he ever got any “death threat.” I think he’s just trying to pump up his smear job with an accusation that he can’t back up.

Yesterday, I made Balko an offer: post the “email death threat” with its headers showing the IP address of the sender, and I’ll look in our server logs to see if anyone with that address had accessed LGF in the past couple of days.

Balko ignored me, of course.

I know some people will ask why I’m posting this, and say that it just gives Balko the traffic and attention he so obviously craves. Well, I wasn’t going to mention it; but then I read a comment from reader Papertiger, who mentioned an old saying: to accept insult is to invite attack. And you know what? That’s exactly right.

So I’m challenging Radley Balko publicly to prove that he wasn’t making a false allegation against LGF and our readers. It’s a simple thing to prove. If he does post the email and its headers, and I find the IP address in our server logs (and it matches the address of a regular reader who posts comments, not just a random person out of the ~20,000 unique visitors we get each day), I’ll publicly retract my charge that he’s lying. If he continues to ignore my challenge, I’ll consider it proof that he made up this accusation to make himself look like a noble fighter against injustice, suffering “death threats” from evil troglodytic LGF readers.

I think he’s lying. Will he have the stones to put up or shut up?

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150 comments

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1 Michael Glazer  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:39:57am

Charles,

You realize it is pretty easy to get a HTTP_REFERER with an LGF visitor's IP adde from your link to him and then make the fake email.

2 Guy Smilee  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:40:22am

I'm not saying that Balko has any legitimacy to his claims, but I would just like to point out one thing:

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

What I mean by that is anybody can claim to be an LGF reader. Anybody can pretend to be one of LGF's regular posters. Just because someone reads LGF doesn't mean that his or her opinion is representative of the mainstream of opinion here.

Even if Balko can prove that his "death threat" came from someone who could legitimately be described as "an LGF reader," it doesn't necessarily mean much.

3 kathyn  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:40:48am

It wasn't me. I couldn't hurt a fly right now. I fell and shattered my wrist on Monday. The best I can do is to type with one hand...and that's slow-going. Balko must be pretty pathetic and needy to try such a stunt.

4 AG in Houston  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:41:44am

Damn straight!

COnfronting hatred armed with the truth.

Charles, you truly have no equals.

5 David Simon  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:42:50am

Do any lawyers know if there is any legal action that can be taken against this lying sack of shit? I just love using the left's tactics against them.

6 NC  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:42:58am

BLOG SHITSTORM!!!

7 Amos  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:43:20am

Radley who?

8 mommydoc  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:46:26am

I'm sure he's a liar, and now it's abundantly clear that his post the other day was specifically to draw us there. How pathetic can one guy get?

kathyn: I'm so sorry about your wrist. Speedy recovery.

9 Smitty  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:47:45am

There's no way any LGFer would ever send a death threat... except for maybe that Red George lunatic, but that shouldn't count.

BTW, naming your kid Radley is almost begging for death threats.

10 BIG  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:49:21am

Charles,

If you were a 10 month old baby girl in your stroller, I am sure that Radley would have not trouble getting up the stones to take you on. But since you can't be described this way, I am sure that you have seen the last of this brave warrior.

11 Smit  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:53:19am

#6 NC - 'Blog Shitstorm'

Heh, inspired by Evarist 'immantizing their eschaton' I offer a new LGF definition:

Scatological Eschatologist - One who believes the world ends in a huge shitstorm.

12 Mr. Dill  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:56:01am

How exactly would one carry out such a threat? Would they bore Balko to death with some dreadful whining and complaining as he does to us regularly?
Or maybe they would send the magical IP address assassin ninja elves so that when he click on his email to open the attachment the ninja elves leap forth from his monitor with there dreaded element of surprise? I have an idea maybe we should just humor Balko and his righteous cause for justice as he stands up against the oppressive LGF regime of tyranny and propaganda. We should bombard him with extraordinary compliments for his incredibly self-righteous destiny to stand for lying, losing, and the pursuit of ignorance.

13 sharona  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:57:42am

mommydoc already bitch-slapped Radley in the comments, so Ayn Rand needn't worry about whether or not she is being "represented".

Ayn Rand thanks you, mommydoc, for carrying the torch! (***Pre-emptive Qualifier: I do not channel Ayn Rand, so don't send me any Risperdal samples, okay?)

14 Mr. Dill  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:58:40am

"their" not "there"


sorry momentary lapse of english...

15 Darleen  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:01:46am

What Guy said...

good Lord, even if alleged "death threat" can be traced to someone who reads this blog (and do they only read this one? if not, cannot we say the death threat came from an Onion reader? NYtimes reader?) Charles is not morally responsible for the actions of others!

Poster on the Balko's comments had it right, Ayn Rand should bitch-slap him for such "reasoning."

16 Rand Simberg  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:04:11am

Ummm...not that it's all that pertinent, but I don't think Radley's a leftist. He's actually a pretty radical libertarian (of the anti-war variety). He works at Cato. Note that in the post immediately preceding, he's mocking Castro supporters.

17 Zwicker  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:04:45am

#5

A lawsuit would be tough based just on the accusation. Charles chose to make it public. Until that point, it was a private accusation that nobody else heard. Therefore, Charles suffered no injury via people believing it was true. Of course, if Balko himself advertised it and Charles could show damages, then we would be talking.

By the way, it wasn't me!

18 BH  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:05:42am

Ah, you know the lefty credo: Free speech is when I shut down freeways and smash windows to get what I want. Hate speech is when you disagree with me.

19 Yair  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:06:41am

Personally, I think Balko's blog should be renamed from the "Agitator" to the "Dingleberry". That being said, I wouldn't make such a big deal out this. Charles isn't responsible for the thousands of daily visitors to LGF.

20 The Law Student  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:10:25am

I agree with everyone that he would have to come up with the IP of someone who is a consistent reader of LGF, or who posts.
Incidentally, this is another good reason to have a sign in to LGF's comments.

21 Charles  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:16:49am

Zwicker: no, Balko didn't keep it private at all -- he made a public accusation on his weblog, yesterday, long before I posted this entry.

22 fiery celt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:17:11am

Charles,

I almost posted a scathing retort in his comments section, then I realized that he would get my IP address.

This guy is about "tootin' his own horn". And just uses his blog as a vehicle to do so.

Shameless plugs about his radio appearances, his columns. his work with the Cato Institute...

He appears to be such a narcissist, that I'm surprised that he didn't start referring to himself in the third person.

And this, was just the first page of his blog, I didn't even delve into the archives...

The follow are examples of his blatant self-promotion...

The Washington Times excerpts my Six Feet Under column in it's "Culture, Etc." feature today.
One of the things I love about working for Cato is the pride the organization takes in philosophical consistency, regardless of ideology, regardless of whom might get offended, or with whom the organization must share a bed with to assert its principles.
I'm On the Radio
I'll be on WOR in New York City tonight at 8:30pm ET on The Dolans show.
It's syndicated nationally, but you can listen live online here.
Lowering the Boomers My new Fox column formally declares generational war on the Baby Boomers.
I have a piece running on National Review Online today about pro-life themes in, of all places, the HBO series Six Feet Under

Whew...remember this was on page one. He is a self-aggrandizing weenie who craves attention and acclaim.

23 LGFNOOB  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:25:52am

So is Balko, like arabic, for bullshit?

24 next!  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:32:08am

#11 Smit:

I offer a new LGF definition:

Scatological Eschatologist - One who believes the world ends in a huge shitstorm.

I propose:

Scatological Ontologist - One who believes the world is a huge shitstorm.

Oh, and 'twarn't me neither; can't plead "broken wrist" *knocks wood* but I am feeling a bit peaked . . .

25 Smit  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:32:57am

Smit congratulates #22 Fiery Celt on her expose of Balko's self-aggrandizing weeniement.


Smit also demonstrates that it's Friday & time for a beer. (In London)

26 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:33:23am

mommydoc:

I'm sure he's a liar ...

Well, the guy works in marketing. Such people just don't perceive reality the same way the rest of us do.

Seriously, Balko's whole post indicates to me that LGF arouses some kind of unresolved emotional issues for him. To this, add Balko's paranoia, and Balko's obvious confusion.

What exactly is Balko's point regarding the organ transplant story, anyway? That Palestinians are eager to donate organs to Israelis? That would be nice, but I'd rather that he found a story that said this: PALESTINIANS CALL FOR AN END TO VIOLENCE, DEMAND THAT LEADERS MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL.

Find that one and post it, Balko. If you do, I'll personally come out to the Cato Institute and mow your goddamn lawn.

27 BH  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:36:42am
28 Robert Crawford  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:38:34am

fiery celt: It's a weblog. What's he supposed to write about? The life of his next door neighbor?

Folks, I'm a regular LGF reader and commenter, and I value the service Charles is providing the world, but some of you need to calm the hell down. Seriously, comments like LGFNOOB's and some of the others that pop up whenever someone makes a negative comment about LGF have gone from amusing to idignant to, well, cultish.

LGF has a serious problem: the intemperate remarks of some of its commenters is getting in the way of its mission. Either the commenters tone it down, or the information Charles is collecting is going to be ignored out of embarrasment over being associated with such a crowd of louts.

Yes, we have many more sensible commentors than not. But that doesn't matter. The imprudent commentors do more damage than any number of sensible commentors could ever undo.

29 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:39:24am

An LGF reader might have sent Balko a death threat? Sorry, that's not Charles' responsibility. This is pathetic.

BTW, that's not me admitting in a round-about kinda way that I did it ;-)

30 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:46:08am

Google is my homepage; are they responsible for my actions? This is worse than pathetic.

31 Carrie  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:48:21am

#26 Glen Wishard

Well, the guy works in marketing. Such people just don't perceive reality the same way the rest of us do.

Darnit! First it was generalizations about journalism so I went into marketing. Now, it's marketing. Do I have to become an accountant so my field doesn't get bashed? :P

(BTW, if anyone's looking for an accounting assistant in Seattle...)

Who's this whiney guy again?

32 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:50:35am

Charles wrote:

Will he have the stones to put up or shut up?

My bet: he's got approximately 1 less than Lance.

Radely? Hello...Radely?

(cue crickets)

33 Dennis  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:51:01am

This guy is about "tootin' his own horn". And just uses his blog as a vehicle to do so...

He is a self-aggrandizing weenie who craves attention and acclaim..."

And this makes him different from Charles Johnson how, exactly?

"I was on the Michael Medved show today, blah, blah, blah, rumor has it that the 700 Club will mention LGF this afternoon (hat tip to "Impeach Senator Klintoon") blah, blah, blah..."

34 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:54:32am

When Charles starts posting visitor stats, like Mr Balko, perhaps you'll have the beginnings of a point.

35 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:54:37am

#28 Robert Crawford:

LGF has a serious problem: the intemperate remarks of some of its commenters is getting in the way of its mission. Either the commenters tone it down, or the information Charles is collecting is going to be ignored out of embarrasment over being associated with such a crowd of louts.

Others (some of whom have communicated with me off line) have noted this as well.

Charles: With all due respect, do you see it this way, and if so, what do think is the solution? Are the trolls just getting meaner (and making people madder)? Or are we all getting too impatient? Maybe my own previous remark falls within this category as well?

Anyone?

36 Robert Crawford  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 7:59:18am

someguy: It ain't always the trolls.

IMHO, LGF is rapidly approaching the point at which no dissent is tolerated. I'm all for not tolerating stupid dissent (like all trolls and most of what Gordon posts), but the reaction to yesterday's OpinionJournal piece on the fence was, honestly, frightening.

37 Kirk  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:03:39am

“Arabs are vile, filthy, murdering animals.”

That isn't what Charles says. Most arabs want what we want. The government to stay off of our money by not taxing us to death. They want a peaceful home life. They want a future that doesn't include death to everyone else.

There is however a small (less than 30,000,000) muslim extremists that wish the US and Israel could be destroyed by their version of the fist of allah. That group does contain many 'vile, filthy, murdering animals' and we pay the price for beating them back whenever and however we can.

38 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:05:08am

#36 Robert Crawford:

Agreed. And you know that I have fallen into that trap at least once (and sorry for that again in your regard).

But what is going on here? Why the loss of civility? Are we making to much of that?

I can only state it in the vaguest terms: there's a struggle here between hope and despair, and it seems like despair has the upper hand. At least for the moment. Like I said, that's vague. Maybe it's even BS.

But it's all I can come up with at the moment. Any ideas?

39 The Law Student  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:05:57am

I will once again repeat my idea that you one has to sign in to leave comments.

40 Crill  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:08:53am

#33 Dennis

Charles is a very unassuming and humble person. If you payed attention, you would realize that. Stop being a fool, please.

41 Crill  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:10:01am

I agree with Law Student. Registration would be helpful, and wouldn't burden those of us who truly support LGF.

42 piglet  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:15:08am
LGF has a serious problem: the intemperate remarks of some of its commenters



We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans--born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage--and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

This much we pledge--and more.

To those old allies whose cultural and spiritual origins we share, we pledge the loyalty of faithful friends. United there is little we cannot do in a host of cooperative ventures. Divided there is little we can do--for we dare not meet a powerful challenge at odds and split asunder.

To those new states whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom--and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside.

To those people in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.


[Link: www.jfklibrary.org...]

43 Libertypost  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:20:10am

#5

"I just love using the left's tactics against them."

The Cato insititute (and, one assumes, its writers) are libertarian, ie., classical liberal constitutionalist:

----------------

"The Cato Institute was founded in 1977 by Edward H. Crane. It is a non-profit public policy research foundation headquartered in Washington, D.C. The Institute is named for Cato's Letters, a series of libertarian pamphlets that helped lay the philosophical foundation for the American Revolution.

Cato's Mission
The Cato Institute seeks to broaden the parameters of public policy debate to allow consideration of the traditional American principles of limited government, individual liberty, free markets and peace. Toward that goal, the Institute strives to achieve greater involvement of the intelligent, concerned lay public in questions of policy and the proper role of government."

---------

WHile it's true these ideas are pretty unpopular right now (ie., "limited government, individual liberty, free markets and peace"), being out of facor still does not make them "left."

44 Robin Roberts  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:20:59am

Well said, Robert

45 Emily Nelson  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:21:22am

Actually I like the level of vehemence and fury here. I'm currently in school w/liberal academics and left an email lists that was straitjacketed by calls for more "civility".


I don't think any spleen is is vented here that wasn't provoked.

46 foobar  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:21:29am

Coincidence or conspiracy? :-)

I was just attempting to publish an entry I posted on my blog when something went haywire and was unable to publish it. Several attempts but no luck. Then server replied with HTTP 500. Didn't understand what the problem was so I went away, logged out, took a break and came back.

When I returned, I examined the entry I had posted which was saved. Pornographic material had been added, but the server had refused to publish it. This appeared to be an attempted hack. I edited the entry and removed the porno, then published the entry.

The entry was about Moslem Democracy. It was a statement made in a speech by the King of Morocco.

Someone doesn't want Iraq to be a Moslem Democracy?

Tough cookies!

47 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:22:46am

Carrie:

Do I have to become an accountant so my field doesn't get bashed?

Don't even get me started on the damned accountants.

Just kidding. As Vito Corleone said, "It's none of my business what a man does to make his living, you understand ..."

48 skyrocket  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:27:43am

Re comments by Robert Crawford and Someguy:

A month or so ago I posted a question in all sincerity. In fact - I took pains to indicate that it was a legitimate question concerning Israel. The abuse I received was apalling.

Not only was my intelligence questioned, but the ad hominems were kneejerk. In fact, it was the behavior I had come to expect from the liberals. What a shock.

I had viewed this site as a place where I could seek a rational discussion or information. I would seriously have to think about posting a question again. Perhaps it is just once burned, twice shy - but I felt like I was at the Guardian.

49 Black_Flag  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:31:47am

#38 someguy:


"I can only state it in the vaguest terms: there's a struggle here between hope and despair, and it seems like despair has the upper hand. At least for the moment."

Add frustration to that and youve made a good point.

Add the sillyness of some trolls with the "free mason watch" links and it's understandable why they are often attacked or ignored with such ferocity, the stupidity of most troll arguments is blinding.

Robert Crawford:

Relax, it isnt that bad. Go cruise indymedia if you really want to be freaked out, at least most people here are literate and don't slam on the caps lock key.

50 Carrie  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:31:58am

#47 Glen Wishard

Don't even get me started on the damned accountants.

You gotta problem with numbers, buddy? ;) Will tax accounting bring about even more of your wrath? :P

I need to fill the gaps between writing romance novels.

51 JR  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:32:36am

I felt like I was at the Guardian.

If you think this place is bad, try freerepublic.com!

There you get insulted and then banned for asking questions.

52 ishouldpickanick  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:38:28am

it wasent me.

53 Smitty  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:38:57am

#44 Robin.

Just went to your site for the first time. A small point about your format (if I may). On the left hand side under your My Links, you have LGF listed perilously close to your "Permanent Boycott" list. I know (hope) it's not intentional, but I wouldn't want people to think LGF is in the same list as the Dixie Chicks ;-)

54 QueenEsther  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:39:22am

I'll bet he's afflicted with baron von munchausen syndrome - and sent the threat to himself. What an attention-craving nebech. Feh.

55 Robert Crawford  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:40:19am

Piglet: What's your point? Are you comparing the periodic "nuke Mecca" comments to "bear any burden, pay any price"?

There are commentors who believe Arabs -- and Muslims in general -- are "vile, filthy animals" and who state that frequently and with vigor. That's a problem, because those comments are the ones that form the impression of LGF.

95% of LGF commentors and readers disagree with that sentiment. But there's also a tendency to stomp on the intemperate remarks of those who express the opposite while ignoring those racists.

someguy: I'm sure I've contributed to the heat, too.

I don't know if it's despair, but if it is:

IT SHOULDN'T BE.

What is there to despair about?! The terrorists aren't winning; they're losing. They lost two of their sanctuaries and one of their biggest fund-raisers. The Saudis are under more pressure and scrutiny than they ever have been. People are getting uncomfortable about the extremists dominating Islam.

We're winning. Yes, there's a lot to do, and no, not everything is perfect, but...

56 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:44:37am

#48 skyrocket:

Could you refer me to your post?

#49 Black_Flag:

Thanks. And I think you're on to something about the trolls.

BTW, I had to ask someone (politely!) not to use my handle on the "misogyny" thread from a day or two ago. Could some of this crap be due to trolls using the nicknames of regulars? Maybe it was just a one-time mistake on the part of the poster who used mine, but I'm starting to wonder with the vibe that's going around here lately.

57 Robert Crawford  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:48:42am

Black_Flag:

Relax, it isnt that bad. Go cruise indymedia if you really want to be freaked out, at least most people here are literate and don't slam on the caps lock key.

I don't want a place that's "not as bad as indymedia" -- that's not a standard, it's an excuse. I want a place that's not as bad as LGF is now, that's more like LGF was, oh, a year ago.

Maybe I'm just getting a lower tolerance to dogmatism. I don't think so, though.

And for the people commenting that Balko promotes himself on his weblog: no shit! It's one of the primary purposes of a blog, whether we're honest enough to admit it or not.

58 Robert Crawford  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:50:40am

someguy: I don't think there are people posing as regulars in order to sow arguments.

59 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:51:16am

#55 Robert Crawford:

What is there to despair about?! The terrorists aren't winning; they're losing. They lost two of their sanctuaries and one of their biggest fund-raisers. The Saudis are under more pressure and scrutiny than they ever have been. People are getting uncomfortable about the extremists dominating Islam.

Thank you, exactly, etc.

Look, everybody, the movements that led to 9-11 didn't spring up a month prior. Or a decade. Or generation, century, or two, etc.

So it may follow then that it will take more than a couple of years, a presidential term, etc., to fix this (if fix is even an appropriate word).

Seen in that perspective, IMHO the progress we've made up to this point is absolutely mind-staggering. Maybe a little thankfulness in order once in a while.

OTOH, it is the very impatience of people like us that has contributed to this progress.

So let's keep being impatient. But not too impatient.

60 Smitty  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:51:50am

#48 sky

I'm not sure of the question you asked last month but I understand your concern. Personally, I enjoy it when someone comes to LGF and asks a challenging question or posts an opposing comment. I won't always agree, but I think the debate is healthy. Yesterday there was actually some pretty reasonable debate on a couple of threads.

I think sometimes the "go away troll" comments are innappropriate, as long as you can present a reasonable argument and defend against the counter-argument.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Charles has every right to defend his site and reputation against a possibly false accusation posted on someone else's board.

61 brianstien  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:52:41am

#48 Skyrocket

Occasionally, emotionalism gets the better of the best of us. I have been guilty of posting the odd intemperate retort before really thinking it through. More often than not, other LFG regulars will administer the proverbial clue-by-four and get me back on the straight and narrow. And on those occasions, I admit my mistake and apologize.

I’d like to see the thread you’ve referred to…

The bottom line is that this is an unmoderated forum. There will always be some chaff in the wheat. But when I compare it to the vitriol I see at indymedia and du, LGF stands out as one of the most reasoned and even-handed blogs around.

62 Robert Crawford  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 8:57:05am

And let me state, in support of skyrocket's post: When I saw some of the initial comments on the OpinionJournal editorial, my reaction was "maybe they were just publishing an opposing viewpoint?" but I didn't post it because I knew I would have been flamed endlessly.

63 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:01:39am

Carrie:

I need to fill the gaps between writing romance novels.

Uh oh. I won't get into writers of romantic fiction, as I already attacked them in this thread.

Jeez, I shouldn't criticize Balko. I obviously have unresolved issues of my own.

64 Black_Flag  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:02:12am

#57 Robert Crawford:

"I want a place that's not as bad as LGF is now"

Good point.

I had words with a poster that used the "N-Bomb" on another thread recently, after some frustration I ignored it.

I will concede that in the heat of passion people may say things they do not mean or that are blantantly incorrect and some such can be forgiven.

Beat them down with facts if you feel up to it but by a large LFG is the best forum for debate I've found to date. Both my political and worldy views are enlightened because I visit here.

65 AG in Houston  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:10:06am

LGF reminds me of the Jungle... Jim Rome's Jungle.

Someday's, the biggest topic of conversation is LGF itself.

We all go overbaord in our posts.

I do, however, see the policing on the board with regards to the 'nuke mecca' folks.

It's not a solution to kill the good with the bad.

Personally, I see it as a small problem. And not an LGF problem.

LGF stand alone in it's content. Charles Johnson is responsible for it's content.

You will not find a 'nuke mecca' in his commentaries.

Political feelings are running strong right now. Regulars are cranked up over the infighting and we are all having teh high blood pressure spasms that go with reading about the hypocrisy of our enemies.

I think we all need to tone it down a bit.

And when a 'nuke mecca' poster shows up, we take care of him/her.

66 Roger  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:26:19am

When I heard personally from Charles about this dust-up with Radley Balko, the name (although scarcely household word) rang a bell. But where? Then I remembered.

I had blogged about him. A few months ago I defended Balko against supposed censorship by Fox News only to learn that I was (probably) wrong. Shame on me! The whole pathetic exhange is here, if you're interested:

[Link: rogerlsimon.com...]

More importantly, the idea of accusing Charles Johnson of racism or fanning racism is ludicrous. The man I know... personally and through this site... is the reverse. He is a militant anti-racist... and a heroic one at that!

On the question of whether he should have posted about this, however, I would and did give the opposite it advice. It is often true that ignoring insult will only encourage it. But in Balko's case, he is obviously launching his attacks not to advance his paltry political ideas, but to attract attention. From here on in, I propose not to give him any and I would urge others to do the same.

67 Ed Moran  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:28:31am

I think the Sgt. Balko movie with Steve Martin wasn't very good, really.

68 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:40:44am

skyrocket, Robert Crawford, AG:

I personally think that LGF is one of the most congenial internet forums that I've ever spent any time in. It's definitely vastly more interesting than any other I've seen.

Racist and sexist attacks on people are not funny or interesting, and everybody has seen that happen. But I've seen it happen in newsgroups devoted to camping and backpacking, too. There are probably doll-collector groups where people get flamed within an inch of their lives.

I think it's fun when somebody tries to get up my nose, but I'm weird that way. Not everybody is into that kind of fun. Still, if you're attacked for saying something, it should be an opportunity for reflection. If you still think you're right, you should defend yourself.

69 Lively  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:41:42am

Go Charles. I think you're doing it right bringing it out into the public for all to judge. Let's see what he has to say. Your record speaks for itself. :)

70 Ariel  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 9:51:16am

Robert Crawford - FWIW, I agree with everything you've written here. LGFers need chill out a little bit with our posting. We don't need to jump on each other quite as quickly as some are now. And we need to give people the benefit of the doubt before attacking them when there is a new poster.

In general, a little more rational debate and less raging anger would be better.

And for the trolls - we can just make fun of them. Like yesterday, when "Jesus Christ" posted a very nasty comment, I just replied that he seemed to have forgotten some of his teachings. That sort of thing - laughing at the trolls - will make posting here more enjoyable for everyone.

71 Edmund Burke  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 10:11:47am

#70 Ariel

Good point. I posted a comment some weeks back about Resolution 242 and was accused of being a closet anti-Jew.

I can understand after some atrocity that people can fly off the handle, but emoticons can be effective.

Troll baiting can be fun, but don't ever feed the buggers.

72 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 10:15:59am

skyrocket can correct me if wrong, but I think this is the exchange he refers to.

Obviously, he didn't go looking for it (90% of the people who complain about getting flamed are people who start their posts with something like "All of you guys make me sick ...").

But he didn't. He asked a sincere question. A couple of people attacked him, and a couple came to his defense. All pretty mild by my standards --- another day in the DMZ -- but then, I wasn't on the receiving end.

Hardly a display of monolithic ideological conformity, though.

73 Yair  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 10:19:26am

Agree with Law Student that we should have to sign in in order to post on LGF. This would prevent many freaks from posting, since their identity would be known to Charles.

Also have to agree that too many people are bashed on the threads. It's fine to kick a dumb troll's ass, but many people pose well phrased, difficult questions that are not in sync with the views of many others, and get bashed. This just alienates people and causes them to disagree more strongly.

74 Teacake  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 10:22:24am

I never heard of that dude. Sounds like a publicity stunt.

75 Ol' Southern Boy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 10:47:50am

LGF is an open forum -- since life ain't one hundred percent perfect, yeah, you'll get some idiotic posts. But this is America, after all.

On the other hand, some of the sugestions that LGF posters exercise some kind of mutually-agreed-to restraint strikes me as imposing some sort of in-house "political correctness." Given LGF's self-proclaimed status as "anti-idiotarian headquarters," I find that ironic.

I'd rather put up with the occassional stupid posts than institute some kind of filter, either intellectual (via some PC rules) or mechanical (via log-in).

LGF is still head-and-shoulders above most other sites, even with the idiotic comments.

76 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 10:58:56am

#73 Yair:

Agree with Law Student that we should have to sign in in order to post on LGF.

I'm wit ya on dat! Seriously, I'd be glad to register.


Hi Teacake! How's it going? :)

77 hans ze beeman  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:06:08am

#28: Robert Crawford

LGF has a serious problem: the intemperate remarks of some of its commenters is getting in the way of its mission. Either the commenters tone it down, or the information Charles is collecting is going to be ignored out of embarrasment over being associated with such a crowd of louts.

A fine comment. Usually, the impact of an idea is not judged by the volume of its proclaimers, but by the clarity of its purpose. Indeed those over the top harm the idea of LGF - even though it is absolutely correct - and are easy objects of derision. Let facts do the work, not the strength of your lungs in shouting.

78 Lumiere  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:06:49am

I don't know if Balko was threatened with death or not from a poster to this site.

I do know that I was threatened with a physical assault the other day from a poster to this site.

I will no longer post here. While most, and I really do mean most, of the folks who post here are intelligent, well-read, respectful, and even humorous on occasion, there are several posters whose intolerance, extremism, and bigotry are of same order as one finds in the Muslim fanatics who have made much of the Middle-East hell on earth.

Below is the comment in which the threat to my body was posted:

#136 justdanny 7/28/2003 04:21PM PST

"This may well be the most pathetic thread I have ever seen on a non idiotmedia website.

I visited my little brothers gravesite today. I remember laughing at Bob Hope with my little brother when we were little kids.

I come here and see Lumiere throwing crap at a thread for the rememberence of a man who has passed.

Do you also go to the funerals of people you didnt like and ridicule them to their mourners Lumiere? Because that is exactly what you did here.

Bless your relatives for serving. Fuck you for having the least tact of maybe anyone Ive ever seen.

Goodbye Bob Hope. Its a horrible shame you arent alive to be here right now and defend yourself. You entertained Three generations of my family serving in the US military and three generations of their family and friends who sat at home and worried while they served. You held a one of a kind position in the lives of hundreds of millions of American citizens who will be forever grateful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

As a personal protest against Charles for not removing that horse shit Lumiere posted I won't be visiting LGF for one week starting today. If you were within reach of me Lumiere I would gladly punch you in the face. While you have every right to express your opinion and are entitled to it, I have every right to accept an assault charge for knocking you out. This is not a difference of opinion Lumiere. This is you openly spitting in the face of a man who cannot defend himself, a man who did you no harm, a man whose life and service to my country I greatly appreciated.

Go back and look at the title of this thread Lumiere."

79 hans ze beeman  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:13:36am

#70: Ariel

And for the trolls - we can just make fun of them. Like yesterday, when "Jesus Christ" posted a very nasty comment, I just replied that he seemed to have forgotten some of his teachings.

lol! :) Why use a verbal MOAB when a shot in the air will do, or a riposte with style? I agree that trolls are usually easy prey, but why accelerate your SUV when a rabbit crosses the street? It's the SUV (i.e., facts) that is stronger. /rant

80 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:16:59am

#79 hans ze beeman:

Why use a verbal MOAB when a shot in the air will do

Or just laugh at him when he shoots an air ball? :)

BRICK!

81 hans ze beeman  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:22:43am

#80: someguy

Or just laugh at him when he shoots an air ball? :)

Yep! :)

Don't you think it's more interesting to see the card-house of a troll's world collapse by pulling one of the base cards than by using a hand-grenade? I mean, it's fun to see explosions n stuff, but it's not efficient and it overestimates the logical consistency of trolls. Often, a cough will do.

82 someguy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:27:04am

Hans:

Don't you think it's more interesting to see the card-house of a troll's world collapse by pulling one of the base cards than by using a hand-grenade?

Oh, YES! I've seen that happen a couple of times. Afterwards, if they respond, you can almost see them twitching and writhing as they type.

83 Yair  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:31:41am

Lumiere,

That is indeed a very unpleasant post. I don't think Bob Hope would be too proud of it, or would go around threatening to assault people.

84 hans ze beeman  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:31:50am

...on the other hand, one must discriminate between trolls that have a (however slim) access to reason (and some posters have divergent but interesting views), and those who are pubescent, retarded or generally malevolent. Semi-rational trolls might even be cured, but hate-filled wretches should not get a forum here - and, once again, that is what our Great Lizard Master does - to separate the "wheat" from the chaff, and a thankful bow for this certainly energy-consuming task must be added ;)

85 Juliette  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:40:35am

I used to post on the Lucianne (as 'Manyata') website now and then. About the beginning of this year, they had a major hacker attack and my profile, along with thousands of others, was lost. It was then that I started coming to this site more often.

After lurking here for a few months, I went back to Lucianne to check it out and found it infinitely more boring than this one and filled with far more idiotarians and racists. Additionally--and ironically--it has become more PC than before.

On some comment boards, you feel like Albert Einstein, others like an equal and still others, like the village idiot. Here, I feel like the latter, which is a good thing. I prefer to be around those that can teach me something.

Sure, the regulars need to tone it down a bit--the outbursts of late have been very disconcerting--but I think that most here are smart enough and emotionally stable enough to police themselves. (Troll-baiting as opposed to troll-feeding does not come into the equation.) I would hate to see enforced PC turn this site into a shadow of itself.

I'm sure Charles will do (or not do) what he thinks is best.

86 Yossarian  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:45:55am

I think that the bottom line is that people need to be tactful about what they say. Remember, once you've posted something, you can't go back or delete it or change what you say. I suggest a few things for before you post:
a) ALWAYS preview, and see how it reads. Try looking at it from another perspective; could it be considered inflammatory, are you getting your point across without resorting to ad hominem attacks, etc.
b) Try not to read too much into another person's comments. I've seen things here get ugly both from people misreading another's comments, or convincing themselves that the other person had ulterior motives in what they said. If you're unsure of what someone means, by all means, ASK! (politely)
c) Use tact, and take time composing your comments. It's not a race to get things in; it doesn't matter if your reply to a comment comes after a few comments in between.
Please consider my suggestions.

87 really grumpy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:49:41am

As far as registration goes, it matters not either way with me. In fact, most of the places I post require it.

But from a different perspective, virtual identity cards shouldn't be a prerequisite for LGF, IMO. If we are talking about the issue of the freedom to speak your mind, then it shouldn't be required. Occasionally Charles has to block people for understandable issues.

But for the most part this blog is self-policing. The reason many people don't admonish some people when they post some clearly racist rubbish is that in some cases, we actually know enough about those posters that we know that sometimes their words are not exactly what they mean, but are spoken with the context of the Islamist community of Muslims, who may 10-15% of the worldwide community of Islam, but whose voices drown out all more moderate branches, especially in the Middle East.

I know that there are times that I've felt somewhat despairing about the situation regarding Israel in the midst of all the irrational Muslim hatred, and there are times when I don't even care when someone posts some slam against all of the Muslim community. I know it is wrong, but I just can't bring myself to care.

I would bet that on occasion Charles gets posters here who would actually fear for their lives if they had to register to post. I sort of know a guy who is from Armenia, and if I even ask what the weather is like there he clams up and will not say even a word. You think he isn't afraid of something?

In saner moments and after reflection I always believe the same way, a way that in no way promotes any kind of blanket hatred of people of the Muslim faith.

I want LGF to be a vibrant and interactive and sometimes angry place, because that is just normal. What Charles wants for his blog is entirely up to him.

But if some sort of behavior code starts forming here, I'll probably gradually slip away.

88 evariste  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:54:24am

Lumiere,
I understand that it must have been very unpleasant for you to read the comments directed at you that day, especially justdanny's. But I'd like to ask you not to refrain from posting here because of his comment. From what I understand your voice is a valuable one here, I'd hate to lose it because of what seems like a trifle after a few days' separation.
Put yourself in justdanny's shoes here for a moment; grief-stricken after visiting his brother's grave, coming here to find what you posted. He's not even visiting LGF for five more days. Yes, he threatened to punch you in the face. I doubt that if you ran into him on the street today he'd punch you in the face. Passions run high but reason prevails eventually. And in truth, if I had the restraint not to punch you in the face that day, I probably would have asked you to leave the room for your own safety. Some behavior is just uncivilized.
It was totally insensitive of you to post what you did in the Bob Hope thread. I hope that you realize that, and that you understand that you still owe us all an apology. I know that you took quite a shellacking in there, but nonetheless a graceful mea culpa would go a long way towards demonstrating that you are the better woman. I've apologized before for lesser offenses.
What's graceless is to offer no apology, and then declare that you won't be talking to us any more.
AG in Houston, I must confess if you didn't know already that I am one of those "nuke mecca" posters, and I feel bad for having the impulsiveness to say so publically. I do want to point out that "nuke mecca" is my personal prescription at the end of the line when we have no other option, not what I advocate that our foreign policy seek in the here and now. It's a last resort. But I realize that bringing that up is unhelpful and easily caricatured by people whose agenda it is to make LGF and its fans look bad. So I'm not gonna bring that up any more.

89 evariste  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 11:59:09am

Yossarian (#86), excellent post. I agree completely. My newest trick is to pretend that my dream girl is an LGF poster and that she reads everything I post here. It's remarkably civilizing.
Hi Dream Girl! ;-)

90 Yossarian  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:00:42pm

evariste #89: LOL! That's brillant.

91 Yair  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:03:32pm
But from a different perspective, virtual identity cards shouldn't be a prerequisite for LGF, IMO. If we are talking about the issue of the freedom to speak your mind, then it shouldn't be required. Occasionally Charles has to block people for understandable issues.

But these "identity cards" would be known only to Charles. In the case of your Armenian friend, the Turkish government would have no more information than they already do -- assuming the registration form uses secure encryption. None of your private registration information would be known to outside parties.

People should feel free to state their views, but should also be able to stand behind them. I guarantee you that registration would filter out the nutjobs who are too chicken to make their ID's known to Charles.

92 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:12:01pm

Lumiere:

You're blaming Charles for what justdanny said? Funny, he's protesting Charles because of what you said.

You're free to do what you want. I've seen other people who've gotten into fights here, then went off to other sites and bad-mouthed Charles and LGF for something that he had nothing to do with - except that he provided them with a forum where they could go and get into trouble.

I don't think you're the kind of person that would do that.

93 RC neo-Jew  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:27:54pm

#86 Yossarian

#89 evariste

Very good.

Are you sure you're not two elderly sages, pretending to be young?

94 AmeKes  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:29:21pm

I get death treats all the time. Just yesterday my wife threaten to kill me if I didn't do the vacuuming before I left for the chess club. This was much better then my mom's constantly threating to leave me a helpless cripple for the rest of my life.

Seriously though, what some people don't understand is that Leftist organizations think of death threats as a badge of honor. To them it means they are pissing off the right people and that they are being noticed. I worked with 2 leftist organizations, Counsel of La Raza, and The Southwest center for Biodiversity here in Tucson . No ,I did not work for them , just a Co. that was contracted out to handle their computer systems. I heard it through the grape vine many times that someone had received a death threat. I told them time and time again to notify me, when it happens and I will track down where it came from. No one ever did this. I would be told that person A said they received a death threat, then I would go ask that person, and they would say they didn't but they do all the time, but heard that person B did. Needless to say, in 2 years of working with them there were at least 50 rumors , yet not one bit of prof.

When out on the town these people like to tell people about all the good they do, and how they receive "death threats". IT is bull. Even if they do receive a death threat, though I have never seen one, you have to wonder if it was serious, or some kid running their mouth off. Or, in one case before I got there, someone in court told them they would defend their land to the death. This was considered a death threat to them.

I have to go, I just got a death threat from my wife to go and clean some dishes.

95 Robin Roberts  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:34:57pm

Thanks Smitty, I'll fix that.

96 (--**--)  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 12:51:15pm


...saying that my “general thesis” is that “Arabs are vile, filthy, murdering animals.” I won’t even dignify that stupid straw-man ad hominem comment with a response.

--------
I'll respond then. They may not all be vile, filthy, murdering animals, but far too many are complicit in the sense of not standing up to their own radicals--EVEN IN A FREE PLACE LIKE America. That is at least vile.

97 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:00:04pm

A speedy recovery Kathlyn.

98 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:07:38pm

@22 fiery celt

You can always post anon over there using proxies. Like what happened here the other day with that nasty troll.
I use JAP out of Germany at times. It's free.

No Charles it wasn't me!

99 Black_Flag  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:14:20pm

#91 Yair:

"I gaurantee you that registration would filter out the nutjobs who are too chicken to make their ID's known to Charles."


Thier ID's are known to Charles whether they register or not :) but there are pros and cons for both.

It is the nature of the Internet and IP connectivity that such things are possible.

100 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:26:14pm

@55 Robert Crawford


I'm glad you've brought this up. I've noticed in the past couple weeks that posters who have been here much longer than me and seemed very close became hostile. Some of these people are not speaking to each other.
I first really noticed like a paradigm change on July26.

I think its a bunch of things that are affecting the quality of postings here.
By the way I want to apologize for jumping on you several weeks ago.


regards

101 PDM  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:26:56pm

post to post bickering:
All this bickering on LGF lately is ridiculous.
It seems like many are picking a partner (or more) to fight with over stupid sh-t. In too many cases people can't find within themselves to apologize. And, in some cases even public apologies are publicly ignored.
A few are even pouting and threatening to leave.
So, go already and stop the whining and seething. Take a damn break and come back when you're watered cooled down.

blog to blog bickering;
It looks like the same disease (on a blogers level) has hit Radley Balko. For him it's probably a good thing though. It looks like he has trouble getting over 30 comments (in most cases 10) on a thread without invoking the name of LGF.
And, he clearly has the same "I don't dare apologize" pride disease as well.
---
Damn, is there something in the air, or the pixels?

102 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:30:31pm

hans zee beeman

Semi-rational trolls might even be cured, but hate-filled wretches should not get a forum here - and, once again, that is what our Great Lizard Master does - to separate the "wheat" from the chaff, and a thankful bow for this certainly energy-consuming task must be added ;)

LOL! As I remember it, you started out with some of the most troll-like language I'd ever seen. What was it? Something actually kinda funny like "babykillers". I forget what, but I sat back and thought "no way will anything get through to that guy".

Well, I was wrong. I bet people thought similar things way back when I started posting.

So how about this: unless trolls shoot themselves in the foot, we don't flame. We point out where they're wrong, don't put 'em off reading and hope they change their minds. If they do, great. If they become a nuisance, Charles will probably ban them. If they go away, big deal.

Softly, softly, might make LGF a far more accesible place to visit and read. I'm as guilty as anyone of feeding, ad hominem-ing and being an asshole to people who disagree with me. But I'll stop that now.

Robert is right, LGF has changed, and it's because we (all of us) let it slide. The "kill 'em all" bastards get away with everything while the "hmm, I'm not sure about that" crowd seem to get flamed.

So, please, rational calm debate. If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it.

103 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:31:24pm

#101 PDM

Take a damn break and come back when you're watered cooled down.

Cheeky!

104 Yair  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:34:37pm
Thier ID's are known to Charles whether they register or not :) but there are pros and cons for both.

Not their e-mail, phone, or address. Registration should use the standard email response to make sure the address is valid. Of course, people could enter fake information for anything other than the email, but at least he would know their email. But you're right, he can get their IP address regardless.

105 Yair  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:39:06pm
Seriously though, what some people don't understand is that Leftist organizations think of death threats as a badge of honor.

Yeah, it makes them feel important. They get off on this sort of stuff. "Whoa, dude, you got a death threat... whoa!" kind of bullshit.

106 Ariel  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:41:25pm

Colt #102 - Really good post. I couldn't agree more.

107 evariste  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:42:21pm

#102 Colt, you got it.
LGF, for me, is not just Charles Johnson's weblog. It's a public service. Did I say, public service? It's a damn utility for me. I'd rather have LGF than cable tv. And we who should know better, should be ambassadors of goodwill on the comment boards to those who appear to mean well but lack comprehension of the real state of the world today. We should be trying to help expand LGF's appeal. (Or as PDM hilariously put it the other day, al-Jee'ef.
One day, in the future, when the war is won, CJ and SdB should get a Congressional Medal of Honor.
Well, why not? He's providing a valuable wartime service.

108 RC neo-Jew  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:45:56pm

Kathyn - awful thing to happen. I feel your pain! (LLL™) Best wishes and make a good recovery.

Yes, there is a lot of grouchiness here these days. I'm not sure how far we should make excuses for it.

Having said that, I tend to make excuses for it. Someone snapped my head off in another thread, and I told myself: 'Maybe he has hemorrhoids, and maybe they're really sore and throbbing right now, maybe he's even having to stand up to type, and maybe he spoke to his wife like that and his dinner is now on his head, plate-side-up, and it's all making him grumpy and he's taking it out on me.' I'm starting to feel quite sorry for him now.

109 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:46:22pm

@91
Hi evariste!

great post and very good idea. I thinkI'll start doing that too.
Of course I'm married, so my dream guy is DentsBud.
He's my 4 year old colt. *?)

not that I don't love my husband! heh

110 M. Simon  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:47:40pm

Has

Radley Balko insulted Islam and it's Prophet Mohammed

?

Ask him.

111 PDM  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:49:01pm

#103 Colt,

...and that was restrained.

#107 evariste,

"Al-Jee'ef" was coined by poster E. Nough.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

112 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:49:06pm

Ariel, evariste - thank you.

#109 quark2

He's my 4 year old colt. *?)

Are you referring to me? :-)

113 RC neo-Jew  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:52:03pm

#109 quark2

Imagine DentsBud is a poster here, and reading everything you write. The only difference is he will spray bits of half-chewed grass all over the screen instead of beer.

114 Just passing through  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:54:35pm

#102 "The "kill 'em all" bastards get away with everything while the "hmm, I'm not sure about that" crowd seem to get flamed."

That is a huge turn-off, as well as the use of bizarre alternate spelling such as "the JOOOOOOOOOOOOS" and the tendency of many posters here to accuse newbies of being "trolls" at the first possible opportunity.

At times this site seems to me like a window into a lunatic asylum - a contest to see who can post to the right of Meir Kahane.

Tone it down - you're losing hearts and minds with this garbage, not winning them.

115 d  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:55:36pm

I bet he, like, deleted the "email" just before Charles called him on it, and thus, oh dear, can't post it now, by gosh. Oldest trick in the book. What a loser.

116 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:03:41pm

@112 - 113

*LOL

Hey he's my miracle horse! He nearly died on me about 6 weeks ago from EPM. I call him my lap horse, he comes as soon as he sees me outside. We have some awesome conversations. And he's quite the gentleman.

Sorry Colt, it's not you! *?)

117 Colt  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:04:56pm

Shoulda known... :-)

118 Claire  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:09:42pm

We should all speak to each other how we would like to be spoken to.

Sometimes we use the anonymity of the web to say stuff we would never dream of saying to someone in person. Why is that?

Plain old politeness goes far.......

119 evariste  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:13:54pm

Howdy quark2! It's good to see you. What's EPM? Some horse illness?

120 PIGLET  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:25:00pm
That is a huge turn-off, as well as the use of bizarre alternate spelling such as "the JOOOOOOOOOOOOS"

I love that spelling. It so perfectly reflects the final comment jew haters make in almost every conversation that they start with "legitimate criticism of Israel is not anti-semitic."

121 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:25:31pm

Hi evariste

Yeah, we fondly call it possum fever. It attacks the nervous system. You'd thunk having as many dogs and cats around the house and in the barn we wouldn't have possums scavenging around so close. Best reason for keeping all feed in metal barrels!

122 AB  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 2:53:28pm

Woof woof

123 Athos  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 3:00:30pm

#22 fiery celt -

He is a self-aggrandizing weenie who craves attention and acclaim.

Guess Balko must be trying, you know, to compensate for something else lacking......

124 quark2  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 3:14:01pm

I just had my first visit over there.
There's another Charles Jonson that posts, had to look twice at the spelling of the name to make sure it was a different Charles.
He's certainly not our Charles!
I see no reason to return.

125 h0mi  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 3:50:20pm

Regarding the issue of people ignoring egregious comments while flaming others for comments...

Undertake this exersize.

A person joins the weblog/usenetgroup/bbs/about.com forum/irc channel/etc. you frequent.

The discussion is about the middle east, and the problems between Israel and the Arabs & America's involvement.

The person writes 1 of these 3 things:


"Nuke Mecca. Then we'll have peace."

"Nuke Tel Aviv. Then we'll have peace."

"Nuke New York. Then we'll have peace."


Which of these remarks is easiest to gloss over as being the rantings of a hysterical person unworthy of giving the attention he clearly craves?

Regarding my takes...

It's easy to disregard or ignore trolls who make outrageous comments that do not indicate much thought was put into the rant. Any idiot can say "nuke mecca" and it's hard to take someone like that seriously. It's also kind of pathetic to accuse other people of "condoning it" merely because the remarks were ignored, rather than everyone constantly expressing heartfelt condemnation over a remark made without a lot of thought devoted to that.

It's also a lot easier to take an attack more seriously when it'd affect you; nuking Mecca won't directly affect me. Nuking Tel Aviv won't either (directly). Nuking New York would strongly affect me (even if I didn't have relatives there.)

Thats why remarks such as that are usually considered to be "trolling".

126 evariste  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 3:59:25pm

I'll weigh in here: I've noticed very often that people here will immediately shut someone down if they say something like, "all muslims are scum" or "sand-n*%#ers" or the like. So the idea that truly egregious comments are ignored, well, sometimes maybe they are, but never because anyone agrees with them. Usually it's because much more interesting conversation is going on, and no one wants to hijack the thread by starting a pile-on to the hyperventilatin' fool.

127 Papertiger  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 4:40:27pm

Hey I got commented on . I'm somebody now wha hoo

128 del  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 4:56:11pm

Skyrocket,

I agree with Glen Wishard in #72. There is some criticism there, but it looks pretty mild to me. Perhaps you were a little thin-skinned.

Nevertheless, as you and others have basically pointed out, there is an unfortunate tendency to jump down other poster's throats and assume that new posters are trolls (i.e. people posting in bad faith). Some are but many aren't.

I've been reading or posting here for almost a couple of years. This issue about incivility comes up on and off. There is some truth in it. I and others have asked people here to be more civil at various times. On the whole, though, I think LGF is more civil than most weblogs, listserves, discussion forums etc. that I have read. And its not actually moderated!

129 Glen Wishard  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 5:31:45pm

AmeKes -

I get death treats all the time. Just yesterday my wife threaten to kill me if I didn't do the vacuuming before I left for the chess club.

I think everybody who loves chess has gotten a death threat from at least one woman.

As a matter of fact, I suspect that a possible relative of mine, Grace Wishart, murdered her husband -- former world champion Alexander Alekhine.

Sorry, I should said "slightly OT ..."

130 NTropy  Fri, Aug 1, 2003 6:44:33pm

Robert Crawford, Yair, Yossarian, Colt and others; thank you for being willing to do a little introspection

I'd like to propose a corolary to the Iron Fist rule which goes something like:

If you think you're too drunk to comment, you're too drunk to comment.

The corolary would be if you don't like yourself after re-reading one of your comments, take a break.

I've had to self-impose a temporary exile from LGF on myself a time or two. I had to consider whether or not the stuff I was writing really reflected the sort of person I am and wanted to present. Quite honestly, sometimes it isn't. At those times I realize that I've had too much news of bombings, murders, media apathy or more often worse, lying, ignorance - I could go on but I think you get the picture.

Yes, commenting can be fun and addictive. But we all are affected by the crap the Charles reports on to one extent or another. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Charles does but I couldn't do it. Thank God Charles has his cycling and music to break into an otherwise sickening task.

Of course we could also blame it on the long hot summer.

131 Papertiger  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 1:12:21am

Charles

Part of me wishes I hadn't been the impedus behind this challenge, But most of me thinks Way to go sticking up for your people. I hope your not dissappointed for having faith in us.

132 Crusade Now  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 3:05:26am

Never heard of Robert Balko. Maybe Iron Fist wanted to kill him.

133 zaza  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 5:19:40am

#130 NTropy:

Of course we could also blame it on the long hot summer.

Nah, that's too simple. ;)

I have evidence of a more sophisticated, coordinated effort is behind the exacerbation of moods among the esteemed LGF community. Which is, notoriously, drug-free, so has a low tolerance to any chemical substance that should be unwillingly ingested. That's exactly why the sly enemies at Indymedia devised the cunning plan which my insider sources have exclusively revealed to me. Thanks to their abundant connections in Latin America, about two months ago the no-globalistas paid a visit to Pablo Escobar's heirs in Colombia, did some friendly anti-global business, and then rented a few planes with which to douse Colombia's most famous typical local no-logo product on the locations of commenters, extrapolated cunningly from an IP-sucking Colombian Javascript that Pablo's grandson invented for the purpose.

This will be made into a movie with Johnny Depp as the IMC activist who carries out the operation but then repents after having a child with Dick Cheney, thus single-handedly getting Bush to pass legislation approving of gay marriages and to donate 30 million dollars to PDM's LGF fundraiser.

And everyone lived happily ever after!

/yes, it is definitely too hot....

134 cliff  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 6:20:19am

To: Radley and Charles, and their loyal readers

Stop this. Now.

Radley, yours was the first 'blog I ever read; Charles, yours was about the third. I still read both of you, because I find I learn something each time I visit your sites. Not to say I always agree with you, but you are both excellent bloggers in your respective fields of interest, and I find the discourse among your readers to be stimulating, entertaining, and learned.

This name calling and grand-standing is beneath all in these forums, and side-tracks the discussion.

Radley, if you have info on the e-mail that caused you concern, send it to Charles.

Charles, if the e-mailer was an LGF reader, expose him (or her) for what they are. A troll is a troll, no matter whose bridge they hide under.

Folks, there are too many real tempests out there we need to be worried about. Let's return our focus to those, and not the one we're making our own teapot.

Loyal Reader,

.....CLIFF

135 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 6:43:50am
136 Charles  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 6:54:03am

Cliff: I just want to point out that the attacks all come from Radley Balko. I have never attacked him or his readers; he has now taken it upon himself several times to launch these sorts of ad hominem personal attacks against me, culminating in this ridiculous lie that he received a "death threat."

It's all well and good to tell us both to knock it off, but this is not a schoolyard and we're not children fighting. This guy attacked me out of the blue.

I sincerely doubt that Balko will produce any email to back up his charge. Because it doesn't exist. He's lying.

137 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:02:34am
138 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:06:33am
139 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:21:27am
140 Charles  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:22:06am

The deleted comments are from the idiot who posts under the name "Ronald Reagan". He was banned for abusive, stupid behavior, and anything he manages to get past me will be deleted. Please do not reply to this moron.

141 [deleted]  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:31:25am
142 cliff  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 8:31:00am

Charles:

My response to "ronald reagan" is over on Balco's site, where he has been posting.

.....CLIFF

143 cliff  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 8:32:36am

Oops. Balko, not Balco.

Sorry, Radley.

.....CLIFF

144 ploome  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 10:59:39am

cliff.....regarding,

Charles, if the e-mailer was an LGF reader, expose him (or her) for what they are. A troll is a troll, no matter whose bridge they hide under.

and Charles knows who allegedly sent Radley an email..........because............?

Charles has one hundred readers for every poster...

so Charles is supposed to find this alleged emailer, how..............???

145 Geepers  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 12:11:56pm

Why my dear ploome...

[lighting flash]

... it could be anyone of us.

[rolling thunder]

[ominous music - lights flicker]

So... No one is leaving until we discover who the culprit is.

[glances about the room]

146 evariste  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 12:17:16pm

I just emailed James Glassman of TCS, and I think that it would be good for others to do so as well;

James, I enjoy TechCentralStation a great deal. However, I must take issue with your (institutional "your", not personal) decision to advertise on Rodney Balko's weblog, after reading this: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Rodney is a gifted writer, from what I have read so far, but has for some reason chosen to initiate a vendetta against Charles Johnson and his Little Green Footballs weblog. I don't think that his talent excuses his behavior. I think that you would do well to ask him to tone it down, or seek alternate advertisers and publishers.
Please have a look at your convenience, and let me know if you intend on doing anything about it.
Thanks,
my real name
147 evariste  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 1:15:10pm

Ha ha ha! I meant Radley.

148 E. Brown  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:30:33pm

Balko, like his epigone "Reagan," is a gutless moral coward undeserving of attention.

149 PDM  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:40:48pm

#145 Geepers,

Why my dear ploome...

[lighting flash]

... it could be anyone of us.

[rolling thunder]

[ominous music - lights flicker]

So... No one is leaving until we discover who the culprit is.

[glances about the room]

Why my dear Geepers....
[lighting flash]
...we have to consider other possibilities.
[rolling thunder]
It could be a disgruntled former poster (whose name I will not mention).
[ominous music - lights flicker]
It cold be one of Radley Balko's posters.
[glances about the room]
Or... it could be YOU!

[screams from another room]
Or... duh... Radley Balko could just be a f'n liar.

150 PDM  Sat, Aug 2, 2003 7:43:35pm

...and my spell checker doesn't even recognize the name Radley Balko.

[here's the scary part]

Radley Balko may not even really exist.


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