I hope we here in the USA don't even become as docile and PC-crippled as to not be able to respond to people like these.

recently spotted in london: a roadsign with the name crossed out, and crudely written 'jihad road' taking its place.

it could be ironic (there's a nearby mosque, though not the infamous finsbury pk one), or it could be someone proclaiming their true allegiance. in case anyone cares, it's in the turnpike lane area.

Surely these are members of the teeny tiny sliver of the world Muslim population known as "radical Islam."

EUtopia, if you liked Nazi Germany, you're going to love Shari'a.

dont ever that is.

People have to understand: We're at war. If someone acts like the enemy, they are the enemy.

To avoid double posting (I wanted to cover it on a relevant thread, then Charles put this up), the latest on Al Muhajiroun is here and on theirsite.

Excellent! It's always good when the roaches get caught when you turn the lights on, it lets you know you have an infestation to take care of.

This site has already exceeded its bandwidth allotment. Is there another copy or mirror?

Add these Islamists to the pervasive and loathsome Jew-hatred of the British and you have the same toxic environment that can be found in the rest of Europe. Right now, you could not pay me to travel to Europe (well, maybe to Italy, and only because Berlusconi is the only voice of sanity among Europe's leadership). For me, Europe is nothing more than a gorgeous tomb.

Charles, any word on similar events happening in the US? I'd like names and addresses if possible.

Like I said, this isn't a war on terror any more than World War 2 was a War on Messerchmitts. Terror is not the enemy, it is a weapon of the enemy. The enemy is Barbarism. In World War 2, it wore the snappy uniforms of the SS, now it is concealed in the flowing robes of Islam.

Perhaps if we survive, masochists in the future will pay dominatrixes to dress up as Imams and terror-bombers.

Muslims, together with the rest of humanity, is like oil and water.

10 scaramouche

Right now, you could not pay me to travel to Europe (well, maybe to Italy, and only because Berlusconi is the only voice of sanity among Europe's leadership). For me, Europe is nothing more than a gorgeous tomb.

Nicely put. Consider adding Spain as well as Italy, but they are due for a change for the worst.

Why do the British accept this?

Why would Britain's Muslims be celebrating a vicious act of Zionist terrorism intended to goad the United States into launching a new "crusade" to destroy Islam? Why? I don't get it.

Poor England, she is lost.

British Islamist site as-sabeel has posted their own variation on 'never forgive/never forget'

_www.as-sabeel.com/misc/911Announce.htm_

You will find more info about the site here:

[Link: haganah.us...]

Oh, by the way, turning to the important news of the day, it looks like the Dimwit/Guttertrash wedding is off.

I just got back from the memorial at GZ

I would personally like to take a 9 iron to each of these bastards

HG

Google's Cache of the webpage

[Link: 216.239.51.104...]

If you have an exact link just paste it into google and click the 'cached version' link for a page that is no longer online or go to [Link: archive.org...] or use programs like HTTrack to copy the website

[Link: www.httrack.com...]

Well, it doesn't matter whether they live in a civilized country or not ... if they go to the mosque every Friday and listen closely to the hate that speys out of their leaders' mouths, they'll be savages.

Mark my words, there'll come a day when Muslims of any sort won't be welcome in civilized countries. The sooner that day comes, the better.

#15, James. Because they would be prosecuted for a "hate crime" if they opposed it?

#15

Why do the British accept this?

Thank the Left.

Who'd rather see thousands murdered by Islamic terrorists than risk "offending" the "Arab Street"

This should be more shocking than it is.

I have yet to see an editorial in a US daily condemning these celebrations, this treachery.

The attempted murder of 50,000. Accomplished through the use of planes they don't know how to build, into buildings they could never erect, and allowed to do so by freedom (of movement) they never deserved.

They attacked us with our own success and our own trust.

In their squalor of mind, in their penury of freedom, in their misery of existence, in their vacuity of heart, they lashed out, not at the cause of their inferiority, but at the evidence of their inferiority.

And their distaff cousins cheered-- having no successes of their own to hold forth, they have only destruction of our success to celebrate.

May we never forget. May THEY never forget. They will always need us, we have never needed them.

Has anyone heard of any such vile celebrations taking place in the U.S.?

A friend of mine is a teacher at a school in Toronto. And when they were having the minute of silence all the muslim students were cheering.

I don't understand it. A country which countenances enemies openly plotting against it can't sustain itself for very long.

Does Britain really want to have a 9/11 of its own before realizing that they can no longer accept Al Majirounssdasdwhatever in its midst?

You guys better wake up. I know that those of you who are awake are outraged, but isn't there something that can be done? What does the average man on the street think of things like this?

#10 scaramouche

Right now, you could not pay me to travel to Europe

Ditto for me. No reason to go where you're hated.

#15 James

Why do the British accept this?

Because many agree with the sentiments (9/11 was America's fault, remember?). I am not saying that all or even most people in Britain agree with this, but there certainly are enough of those who think that the U.S. deserved 9/11 to produce a general apathy towards stuff like this. I'm not sure what kind of ridiculous hate crimes laws Britain might have, but if they do have any they might frighten some critics who would otherwise speak out, but don't because they fear being labeled racist, or dragged off to court because they dare to criticize immigrants/non-whites/oppressed peoples/insert lefty whine here, or otherwise look at them the wrong way.

I'm glad I didn't witness anything like that on 9/11. If I had, I would have kicked the stuffing out of the person I saw celebrating, and now I'd be in jail.

Disgusting. Where are the peaceful, moderate Muslims in all this?

Radical Islam in the West is the "Liberals" Demon-spawn child

Our weakness is of our own doing

Our Enemies take advantage of our kindness to slaughter us

If we are unwilling to defend our lives our enemies will take them from us

If we cannot tell the truth

If we do not have the courage to fight those within our own midsts

iagofest,

Those are the peaceful-moderate muslims

#15

Why do the British accept this?

Because it's not reported in the media
Because unless they witness it themselves most people don't know it's going on
Because of the PC culture
Because if they use the words "islamic" and "terrorist" in the same sentence, they are accused of being racist
Because they believe in freedom of expression, even that of the people trying to destroy it
Because UK muslims have become untouchable and are not held to the same standards as the rest of society
Because illegal immigrants are treated as first class citizens while the brits are second class citizens in their own country
Because ... need I go on

#18 Aaron, thanks for that. That site exposes the very heart and soul of terrorism in our midst.

Tips On Raising Mujaahid Children. This is a very important role for our sisters to play. Boys as well as girls should receive regular stamina-building exercise, watch the clips of Mujaahideen training, singing and just basically enjoying their time fee sabeelillah. Let’s teach our kids the importance of this forgotten worship which is widely neglected and Insha Allah move on to defending the Ummah one-day with the desire of slaying the enemy. Girls should be nurtured to want to marry a Mujaahid and give birth to future heroes of Islam, such as Usamah bin Laden and Shamil Basayev Insha Allah.

Europe is a big graveyard.

#34

I'm certainly getting the picture.

The only precedent I know for this kind of behaviour are the cartoons I watched as a child in which the villain knew he was evil and liked it.

Then people are worse than sadists.

The site seems to be down. Too many people trying to see this shameful list?

Opening Saturday in the West End:

Waiting for Alladot.

A lost play from Samuel Beckett that tells the story of two Arab bums living on the dole in Great Britain passing time as they wait in vain for the arrivial of the mythical "moderate" muslim to impart wisdom releasing them from the shackles of the middle ages.

kayawanee, et al,

I've heard from a friend in a palestinian neighborhood in Brooklyn that they were watching before the attack. They saw it happen and cheered.

#25, Bleeding Heart Conservtive. Check out todays Idaho Statesman at [Link: WWW.Idaho...] Statesman.com under the Local News healine for the feature "news" story on this day. The author, Dan Popkey, is apparently a PC useful idiot who does not know the difference between news and editorial and is unaware of how easy it is to fact check.WWW.Idaho Statesman.com

#15 James - Freedom of speech, dontcha know. Not only that, even when their actions & words are inflammatory the police protect them from any confrontation.

Solihull, Land Rover Plant. Three workers suspended after mocking the three minute silence. Security staff had to escort them from the building to prevent them from being attacked.

Again, on that page it lists an incident where a Muslim cleric was preaching in a public mall (Ilford) about jihad being justified, offended people called the police who were 'as useful as lollipops' & just stood by, watching.

But, hey it's only fair. If a priest started preaching in a mall in Jeddah, the religious police would protect his freedom of expression. No?

On the 'A sweet from Osama' thread Zbeeblebrox mentioned he'd (?) heard reports that some muslims were celebrating the atrocity in the Bronx & New Jersey.

Please, everyone. What weapons can we use, when our virtues of free speech & tolerance are being used against us. How can we fight back?

and don't just answer 'ordnance' ;)

From the al-moron site:

"In addition, to proclaim that the examination of the events of September the 11th could amount to an attack against Muslims or that it might incite racial hatred suggests a violent and terrorist tendency amongst the British and US public...."

Three words: Pot. Kettle. Black.

Hey check this story out... the Wall Street Journal polled Iraqis.

Opinion Journal

Asked to name one country they would most like Iraq to model its new government on from five possibilities--neighboring, Baathist Syria; neighbor and Islamic monarchy Saudi Arabia; neighbor and Islamist republic Iran; Arab lodestar Egypt; or the U.S.--the most popular model by far was the U.S. The U.S. was preferred as a model by 37% of Iraqis selecting from those five--more than Syria, Iran and Egypt put together. Saudi Arabia was in second place at 28%....

We asked how often our respondents had attended the Friday prayer over the previous month. Fully 43% said "never." It's time to scratch "Khomeini II" from the list of morbid fears.

57% of Iraqis with an opinion have an unfavorable view of Osama bin Laden, with 41% of those saying it is a very unfavorable view.

-Chris
Al Qaeda Chat

Oh come on now. Gordon will show up any moment now and explain how his flock of one billion invisible moderate Muslims would never have allowed such things to happen or attitudes to develop within their own communities.

Surely these widespread reports of many Muslims gleefully celebrating horrific massacres are only due to the oppression, genocide, poverty and humiliation inflicted upon them by Britain welcoming them to her shores, thus creating an understandable backlash that must be appreciated from their cultural vantage point.

In fact, I'm beginning to believe that at most, 4 of the hijackers were actually for the slaughter they unleashed. The other 15, all most likely moderate and peaceful in their practice of Islam, thought that they were taking part in some reality tv show, and that the passengers were in on it too. They were probably equally frightened and confused when the planes smashed into their targets.

Please, everyone. What weapons can we use, when our virtues of free speech & tolerance are being used against us. How can we fight back?

Incitement to violence isn't protected speech in the US. Not sure about in Britain. If there is a will there is a way to make it crystal clear to the jihadis in your midst that your society will not tolerate them. That you'll hound, harass, arrest, persecute and prosecute people within your midst who are agitating for the destruction of your society*.

Are these people British citizens? Those that aren't should be given a one way ticket to whence they came.

*I don't mean Muslims, I mean jihadi wannabes.

Diversity is good, you all know that, just ask Gordon.

If I were a brit I would buy the property right next door to the Mosques and open up adult entertainment shops. If you want to enrage the Islamists a woman's naked body is the best way to do it.

#25

Once again LGF's resident philosopher, Bleading Heart Conservative hits the nail squarely on the head:

they lashed out, not at the cause of their inferiority, but at the evidence of their inferiority.

Precisely, my friend, precisely.

Chris, that is good new. Lets hope that this trend continues. Iraq was already fairly secular, and the Shi'ite majority helped, but I am starting to believe the sunni population is becoming radicalized.

while was working in london it was oft told that when the british people see something that they disaprove of on the streets that they divert their eyes away and pretend to ignore what is going on. i really don't know how true this is, but i certainly witnessed similar behavior during my exile there.

Colt would be a better source on the accuracy of this "rumor".

The british can stand up to tasks that would make other nations crumble. think Battle of Britian. there is hope.

James, the man in the street is a bigot. When the man in the street points out the Muslim threat you switch off, because in his mind it's fun, like saying Muslims never pay - fun, idle racism. He'd just as soon talk Jews. He doesn't understand the threat and the authorities don't like to clarify, or they might be racists. It's a quagmire that's been belatedly put to Scotland Yard and MI5. Our media's been so relentlessly lefty, they often seem persuaded the War on Terror is a sham. And the other thing, look at Michael Meacher. Some people are born that way.

Jonny,

Europe is a big graveyard.

Doesn't help.

Somewhat OT, but maybe not by too much

One of the many things that has torqued me off in the run-up to this second anniversary is this thought:

(and let me preface this by saying that I know the celebrations above happened in 2001, but I'm sure they're happening all around the world today, too)

I wish the bad guys were too scared to have these celebrations. I wish that they would fear us the same way a German would fear celebrating in London during the Blitz. I wish they had the fear that, if nothing else, a bunch of torqued-off dock workers would beat some clue into them with nail-studded bats. I wish they feared the civilian men (and the women; I'm a woman myself) of the civilized world, feared the hurt they could put on the bad guys. I wish they had an imminent fear that any celebration in any remotely unfriendly area (we're looking at you, disputed territories) would be met with death from above. This isn't free speech--it's people from the enemy camp using the morals of the civilized world to subvert it. It's giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Where have all the real men gone? I didn't see any on the podium on Tuesday's Democrat debate. Where have our treason and sedition laws gone?

Please, everyone. What weapons can we use, when our virtues of free speech & tolerance are being used against us. How can we fight back?

Smit,

More free speech. Disseminating these types of articles to average (non-politcal) folk where possible and appropriate. Most folks really aren't brain dead. There just clueless.

Fight Back

the best way to fight back in a peaceful way is to highlight what the rest ignores like LGF does but in your own personal spheres of influence

Tell people the truth

that is the best way to fight back

Let those who don't know, know

Write your government, media, papers, email friends, family, businesses ....

Make advertisements, campaigns, buttons, t-shirts, posters, rallies, vigils, educational seminars, get togethers, organize like-minded local chapters to help...

There are many peaceful ways you can fight back

#47 James

Europe has much more strict limitations on free speech than we do in the states. I don't think any nation has freedom #1 as free speech for all. Germans crack down hard on Nazis. They could just as easily crack down on quasi-Nazi Islamists.

BTW, don't call these people muslims. They are not muslims. They are islamists. The faith is the politcal agenda, but the faith is not adhered to. They are phony followers of the faith.

#43 Smit -

Yeah, I'm a he. Last I checked. ;-)

Many of us have heard these reports second or third hand. But does anyone have documentation?

#35 Dom -

... then let's send them to die, preferably in the act of murder.

Let's not allow this color our view of the vast majority of muslims and peoples from the middle east. They are by no means a "fifth column."

These celebrants are obviously not representative of the Religion of Peace. The vast majority of muslims are peaceful and should not be lumped in with the militants of 911 or their suporters.

And anyway, they were driven to it. What about all the babies that died during the sanctions against Iraq? So can you blame them for being bitter about that?

I'm afraid there's a lot of hate being spewed here, which lowers you to the level of the people you hate so much.

#30 - Anat -

A rather well known, and to remain nameless conservative columnist I am an acquaintance with, saw just such a thing ON september 11th when he was buying a bottle of water 2 blocks from my home on his way to the site.

When he told me about this I had to restrain myself. Yes, the people that sell me smokes, and do my laundry HATE me, my lifestyle, my city, my country, and least of all my religion.

Model4, Robert,

"Diversity" means never, ever, criticize another culture, no matter how vile that culture may be. Our own culture however, is fair game.

#23 Gymnast -- "#15, James. Because they would be prosecuted for a "hate crime" if they opposed it? "

If a white male says anything even remotely derogatory about a Muslim at a football ground, he is arrested, denied all privileges as a fan and subject to criminal prosecution. Funny, the Muslims can call for deaths of Christians and Jews with impunity.

Thank the left for that too.

Start Fighting Back With You

get your communities involved, form local anti-terror chapters through your congregations, sports clubs, user groups etc...

Don't wait for the TV or govt. to tell you how to organize yourself - you do it

Organize locally with friends, family, neighbors, colleagues, peers, co-workers, associates, businesses, professionals, service workers, police, firemen, clergy etc...

American Against Terrorism

Form your own local chapter where ever you live

I'm telling you. The best free speech to defeat an Islamist is porn. The sight of women turns these freakazoids into horny vulnerable freakazoids.

Purchase a subscription to the Sun and have them delivered to every mosque in britain. Page 3 girls will shut these fuckers up.

Jeebus, with over 1,300 people on this site, no matter how quickly you respond to someone's comment, it ends up wa-a-a-ay down the thread.

Don't shed any tears for the British. They have made the collective decision to turn their backs on their culture and their heritage and become European. Allowing massive Muslim immigration and not demanding assimilation, or even minimal standards of decency, is part of that choice.

As painful as it is for Americans (and even more so for that tiny majority of Britons who realize the immensity of what is being lost and what has already been lost--see P. Hitchens' The Abolition of Britain), we must recognize that this choice was made consciously and openly by the vast majority of Britons.

The same choice is being made by New Zealand and Canada.

Only Australia and the US soldier on for the common law anglo traditions.

Which is why muslims in the UK would do this kind of thing openly and muslims in the US hide it. Muslims here know better. They know we *will* do something about it. So, US Muslim support for 9.11 remains hidden, and no one speaks its name.

I can say for certain that a large number of young Muslims gathered at an apartment in Beaverton, Oregon last year on 9.11 for what was obviously a celebration. This was witnessed by my mother and father. When a neighbor challenged them on what they were celebrating, he was told that it was an Islamic holy day.

And, in a sense, I suppose it is.

They're peacefully arguing for the introduction of Sharia law. They're advocating Jihad as a self defence measure, in Chechnya, Kashmir etc. They're recruiting British muslims, yes a young, radicalised second generation who were born in Britain to be the foot soldiers.

Slough. Letter in Daily Telegraph to express disgust at having witnessed a class of 15-year-old British-born Pakistanis cheering, punching the air and mocking the tearful singing of the American national anthem.

#59 Ima dhimmi - heh - yeah you are.

Thanks for the hat tip Charles, on that website it also has reports of muslim gangs attacking girl scouts going to thier meetings at a church(by throwing rocks at them, on several occasions), amongst many other attacks and murders by these groups.

Disgusting.

But of course, they would have you believe that the Joooos were responsible for 9/11 and all the rest of the world's ills.

And teh Joooos are just framing up innocent muslims.

And these particular Muslims are actually Mossad plants in another transparent attempt by the joooos to frame peace loving allies in the WoT.

#47 James

If there is a will there is a way to make it crystal clear to the jihadis in your midst that your society will not tolerate them. That you'll hound, harass, arrest, persecute and prosecute people within your midst who are agitating for the destruction of your society*.

It's tricky to find a solution that would not play into the hands of Jihadists and their left-leaning, non-Muslim sympathizers. "Hounding, harassing, and persecuting" will bring cries of "look at us, we're being oppressed".

Still, I think a seething group of Islamists like that should get the piss taken out of them by a mob wielding axe handles and baseball bats. To add insult to injury, the police should stand by and yawn and daydream of the 1000 other places they'd rather be standing and doing nothing. ;)

where are soccer hooligans when you need them?

Maybe it's just me, but I was glad to see that the non-Muslim Brits seemed truly outraged by the Muslim's cheers.

Local residents sickened

Letter in Daily Telegraph to express disgust

Security staff had to escort them from the building to prevent them from being attacked.

4 Muslims sacked after cheering during 3 minute silence.

Local residents disgusted

Etc. At least people did care that this was happening.

Between Ima dhimmi and Progress Teacher we reached the deep end irony mine.

Caution: this is purely hearsay.

I live in Chicago, and a good friend of mine belongs to a synagogue that sponsors immigrant Jews. One of their sponsor-ees, a Ukranian, lived in an Arab section of Rogers Park on 9-11-01, and he claimed that their were small -- but boisterous -- celebrations in his neighborhood that night.

No mention in the media, but I have no reason to doubt him. Especially after the subsequent busts of Chicago-based Islamic "charities."

#26 kawanee -- "Has anyone heard of any such vile celebrations taking place in the U.S.?"

Forget it. If a tree falls in the middle of the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If it happens, America won't hear about it.

"Hounding, harassing, and persecuting" will bring cries of "look at us, we're being oppressed".

Well I was being hyperbolic, but my point is that these elements are a grave danger to any society they are in and must be stopped. Some posters have explained the problem and why it is that they aren't stopped, but the fact is that if its not stopped then Britain is headed down the tubes.

Model4

In fact, I'm beginning to believe that at most, 4 of the hijackers were actually for the slaughter they unleashed.

LOL!! ;-)

Mass Deportations Now.

PIGS

. I wish they had the fear that, if nothing else, a bunch of torqued-off dock workers would beat some clue into them with nail-studded bats.

"Tonto! Bring me my clue-by-four!"

fuck off bigel

The Brits have been clamping down a bit and deporting a few Islamist leaders, especially when hearing about arms and ammo in mosques. But they are so bloody tolerant. I'm pleased to see some were sufficiently irate that security guards were required to save some of the celebrants from body harm.

Does anyone know how the French Moslems have been reacting, or is that news muzzled because of French political concerns and the pending establishment of the IRoF (Islamic Republic of France) two or more generations from now as the rapidly growing Moslem majority there (now 10% of the population and growing at 3 times the rate) eventually become the majority.

What about elsewhere in the world? Spain, Germany, Holland? And the US too?

My teeth are clenched. I am filled with anger.

this is so awful

the only reason they go to and stay in England and America, is because they can work here and support their families.

#83 Alex

In Paris on 9/11 French Arabs were partying, very aggressive, screaming at non-Arabs "you're next! we'll kill you all!"... that kind of things. Of course this was totally censored in the media. But that's what happened in the neighborhood where I worked on 9/11.

Charles -

I hope you'll excuse my presumptuousness, but I wish you had called this thread something like "Muslims in Britain Celebrate." "Celebrations in Britain" sounds as if the Brits were celebrating, instead of their Islamic fifth column.

79 bigel
That's a ridiculous and offensive thing to say. The islamists and some of the LLL may want a Judenrein country, but no-one else here does. Just like in the US, Canada, Australia...

there is a mosque on east 8th sdtreet in Manhattan where it was reported that celebrating took place on 9/11/01. the imam there was the one used for all of the interfaith services post 9/11 - you know the one who then ran off to egypt after declaring that it was the jews, the mossad and the US who planned and carried out the attacks.

I remember reading about open celebrations among Arab immigrants in a Dutch town called Ede, and how disgusted the people were about them. There was also a poll in Holland later on in which a majority of the respondents said that people caught celebrating 9-11 should be deported.

PS -- about the British media. I've discovered long ago that the mainstream national press are hopeless when it comes to reporting unpleasant Muslim activity, but you can pick up all kinds of non-PeeCee news in the local press like "The Yorkshire News", which often carry reports about "Asian" (read Bangladeshi or Pakistani Muslim) aggression toward non-Muslims.

The British government should arrange to fund jihad holidays to Iraq for any of these blokes that want to put their money where there mouth is. Its better to get the hatemongers to volunteer to fight now, in a place where the US is ready, rather than hide amongs the populations of the West like a cancer.

My dad worked for Beer-Sheba University. One day he called me absolutely disgusted and told that during a minute of silence on Iom-ha-Shoa Arab students refused to stand up and made offensive remarks. The story as such is very sad, but, knowing these people, hardly surprizing. The outrageous part of it is that nothing can be done with this scum, not in the States, Britain, or even in supposedly tough, human rights abusing State of Israel.

89 bigel
Show me a source where a non-muslim Brit calls for the expulsion of Jews from the UK.

Does anyone remember the one confirmed story about possible foreknowledge of 9/11?

About the Pakistani 9th grader in Brooklyn who was spotted by his teacher looking out the window and then he made some kind of comment, then she reported it a couple weeks later and the FBI detained the entire class and interrogated the boy and his brother -- who told him to keep his mouth shut -- and it turned out that their father went to Pakistan the next day?

This was, if I recall, uncovered by MSNBC and was the one confirmed rumour. There was a story about it on LGF, but I can't find it. Anyone?

dang. I'm learning at the feet of a master here. Ima Dhimmi: I now have to add

"Such things are only supported by a tiny minority of Muslims."

and

"We mustn't give into the voices of hatred"

and from Model4

"We are all victims of the violence." to my list of Islamomatic Apologetics.

There is probably a market for a sort of CAIRbot, a text generating program that you can feed any question and it will give you a polished stream of these answers, all in the absence of human thought.

IBRAVac, you could call it.

Just a moment: I read the piece, and while it feels correct, in that none of this would surprise me in the least, where are the sources? I read the cached Google page. There are no sources at all. Someone had to collate all these news reports from (I guess) around the country. Just asking, that's all.

In reality, they are celebrating something: their complete lack of contributing anything to civilization except disgusting methods of mass murder.

(oh, and algebra if you listen to them)

bigel
I am well aware of what the media says about Israel, but they are not the man on the street. The man on the street is far more likely to dislike dark-skinned people. I have never witnessed any Jew hatred personally. I have heard a lot of bad things said about dark-skinned people.
Don't try to tell me we'd like to kick the Jews out.

#95 James

That's an interesting story. I never heard that before. Can anyone validate?

It is a matter of civic duty for a Brit to urinate in a cup and toss it in the mosque. They have a thing about it. They will replace the floor before using the mosque again.
And for gods sake someone bash that clown with the drum. The one thats fucking with my boy David Blaine.

James, I remember. There was also a story on Drudge on the day after 9-11 about an Islamist in jail in Germany trying desparately to convince his guards that something terrible was about to happen in D.C. and NYC. I never saw any follow up. Finally, I read a report in the O.C. Register about a local Afghani businessman who went several times to the FBI and CIA (and was ignored) about the buzz on the Muslim street, both abroad and in the US, that something big was going down, including particulars like Al Qaeda safehouses being cleared out in Lebanon just prior to the attack.

#103 axiom

I am 100% certain. I'm just not so great with LGF's search. I will try to find it though. It was reported in MSNBC, Slate and others.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), which advises the government on how to avoid cruelty to livestock, says the way Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals.

The Farm Animal Welfare Council suggest that cutting an animal's throat and letting it bleed to death is rather cruel and you think that's akin to pushing all 300,000 British Jews off Beachy Head by pitchfork!!! Get a grip.

As it happens I think it's cruel too.

Bigel you are somewhat of a statist aren't you?

It appears that, for you it is all about governments and large mobs of people all thinking and acting the same. There is word describing that viewpoint for the social as opposed to economic organisation of society.

I'm an individual, a tribe of one, and see others the same way.

bigel:

Britain tolerates these people because they will do Britain's dirty work -- drive out the Jews and produce a Judenrein Britain, just like they had from 1290-1655, and are longing to have again.

That's extreme and unnecessary.
No, if Britain were as racist as that, they would surely have reserved more xenophobic cultural enmity towards the moslem populace, with its animosity, alien behavior, separatist attitude, and ingratitude, than towards long-term mulitgenerationally assimilated Jews, among whom are authors, actors, comedians, ministers, professors, etc.

Take a look at BBC.com today. They're devoting as much ink (or bytes as it were) to the poor repressed Muslims of America as they are to remembering 9/11.

From "US Muslims fight 9/11 backlash"

"Just because she is an American citizen, and therefore protected from the worst excesses of the anti-terror legislation that been (sic) introduced in the US, says the fast talking Mariam, that doesn't mean she can rest easy."

Well, she can rest a lot easier here than in whatever autocracy her or her parents came from. But notice how the writer just injects that she NEEDS protection from the the "excesses" of anti-terror legisation. Uh, I thought was journalism.

Then it drones on and on w/ the worst "excess" shown being that those on visas have to register with authorities. Uh, I remeber having to hand my passport over to a pensione in Italy ostensibly so that they could register me with the local police. Boo hoo.

This is the "backlash" that needs to be so promently highlighted on the BBC. Couples with the excessive "Islamaphobia" crap they did last week, they've really sunk to new lows.

Any Brits out there horrified that there tax money pays for this?

forgot the link:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

bigel
I think I remember something about the attempt to ban kosher meat. It was on cruelty grounds wasn't it? So they'd have to ban halal meat too. Not gonna happen.

your country is trying to ban kosher meat

What???

This is what's on Snopes about the Pakistani boy predicting the attack.

OT: Another so called "academic" faces jail time

WA PO story

CHICAGO, Sept. 4 -- A former Howard University professor and Palestinian activist with alleged ties to the Islamic Resistance Movement, or Hamas, is scheduled to be jailed for the second time in five years for refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating the terrorist group's finances and activities.

Here's the major problem that probably relates to Sami Al-Arian and others who have used their academic status to traffic terrorists.

Howard spokeswoman J.J. Pryor said she did not believe Ashqar had been on a tenure track at the university, saying that "he was not conducting research." She declined to say why the university did not renew his contract.

Found it!

Last October, crime reporter Jeffrey Scott Shapiro discovered (and confirmed) very troubling evidence that the Arab Muslim communities of New Jersey and New York had prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks.

"What are you looking at?" asked the schoolteacher as she approached one of her freshman students. The boy, a young Palestinian, seemed captivated as he stared out the window across Brooklyn toward the lower downtown area of Manhattan.

"Do you see those two buildings?" he asked while pointing toward the World Trade Center. "They won't be standing there next week." It was noon, Sept. 6, 2001.

Antoinette DiLorenzo didn't take her student's comment all too seriously. Of course the twin towers would be there next week, she assured him. The student shook his head and reiterated his prediction until his 15-year old brother, a sophomore, elbowed him and told him to be quiet. "He's just kidding," the older boy said politely.

Five days later at 8:45 a.m., DiLorenzo heard a loud explosion from the north. Thunderstruck, she turned to the window and eventually watched both towers collapse into shattered glass and crumbled steel.

---------------------

Read the whole thread.

Here is the original MSNBC story:

A Brooklyn boy predicted the World Trade Center attacks. What’s a jittery New York to make of that?

[Link: www.msnbc.com...]

Hmm, the fact that both of the boys in the Snopes link are Pakistani makes me connect more peices of the puzzle back to Pakistan. The ISI links just won't die.

I need to read Bernard Henri-Levy's book "Who Killed Daniel Pearl?". Apparently BHL says Pearl was connecting major pieces of the 9/11 puzzle perhaps by accident when investigating kashimir islamists groups.

Amazon Book link

A friend of mine works in Heathrow, London's main airport. He said that on 9.11.01 some muslim baggage inspecters were loudly, visibly celebrating the attacks.

Not comforting at all.

This brings to mind the following passage from this article ([Link: www.mirror.co.uk...]

"Did you see the yuppies flying out the windows of the trade center?" laughed a young man outside a mosque in North London. "That was so funny."

Vile piece of filth!

bigel
Just because someone thinks kosher and halal killing is cruel doesn't mean they value humans less. You do go way OTT.

It is one thing to have the barbarians at the gate, it is another to have them amongst us. Those who would do us harm will not go away, unless we remove them!

"D.C. mosque tied to 9-11 extols martyrdom virtues"
[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

"The right to comment on Islamic state"
[Link: www.malaysiakini.com...]

"China: Separatists in Muslim region trained abroad"
[Link: thestar.com.my...]

"Militants fail to keep Afghan girls away from school"
[Link: www.thepeninsulaqatar.com...]

New Saudi mosque in Yorkshire opened [Link: www.spa.gov.sa...]

"Students Question Timing Of Lecture On Islam"
"Rochester, NY (09/11/03) - Some students at Roberts Wesleyan College want to postpone a lecture on Islam that falls on the second anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks. They feel the day should be reserved to honor those who died."
[Link: www.wokr13.tv...]

"A Muslim RAF reservist disciplined after refusing to serve in the Iraq war on religious grounds has started his appeal."
"I tried to find out why he hadn't come back and he told me it was against his religion and he didn't want to fight against members of his own religion."
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"Muslims fight on over banned charity"
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"A Malaysian man described as the top bomb maker for the extremist Islamic group responsible for last year’s Bali terror attack may have studied at Reading university."
[Link: www.totallyjewish.com...]

"Morocco's Islamists Tackle Grassroots Politics"
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

"9-11 stirs debate among Muslims"
[Link: www.upi.com...]

"New mosque planned for northern Utah"
``We finally said we need a permanent place to propagate Islam the proper way,'' Al-Tigar said.
[Link: kutv.com...]
Why can I not find any news stories that say "New Church opens in Saudi Arabia"? or "New Synagogue opens in (any Islamic country)" and the Pastor or Rabbi of said Church or Synagogue saying "We finally said we need a permanent place to propagate Christianity or Judaism the proper way"

OT but kosher killing is not any more cruel than other methods of slaughter. The knife used must be tested before and after for nicks that might cause the animal pain. The throat is cut swiftly across the jugular and the blood loss causes the animal to lose consciousness almost immediately.

Compassion for animals is one of the hallmarks of Judaism.

James: I wish I had some insider connections as to what was discussed during Sharon's visit to India. There's no doubt that intelligence sharing was a huge topic. I don't trust the Pakistani Inter-Services agency for shit and they are the ones that "gave" us the Al Qaeda busts. Bin Al-Shyb and Sheik Mohammed were two arrests that just didn't seem to gel. WTF were these two doing in Pakistan when it was well publicized that Pakistan and the US were cooperating in the WoT?

# 59 Ima dhimmi:

No, sir. You are a f*ckwit. Sodom built palaces, palaces mind you, with the Oil for Food program money that were part of the sanctions. That's our fault? What an ass.

Of course, it'd be possible to still be a practicing Jew in an environment where kosher meat is banned. You'd just have to be a vegetarian.

But then to make it fair, you'd have to ban the slaughter of ALL meat and force everyone to become vegatarian. Just so as not to play favorites, you know.

Oh, yes, celebrating and cheering, and passing out candy one day.... and then whining the next because everyone is treating them like potential terrorists. Can I have a little salt and melted butter on my cup of consequences, please?

None of this surprises me. We are summoned to feel the "muslim pain" whereas they are summoned to celebrate ours. Personally I am summoned to reject satan and all his works, and have, thus, taken the following pledge.....goes like this:
"I don't want your prophet, I don't want your koran, I don't want your mecca, I don't want your heaven and I don't want your FILTHY FUCKING VIRGINS......hope I'm not too insensitive

Mark Holland

Kosher slaughter does not involve simply slashing an animal and bleeding it animal to death. That would indeed be cruel. Instead, it involves the rapid severing of BOTH carotid arteries by a very sharp knife (to minimize pain). I've slashed myself with a very sharp knife BTW (12 stitches to close the wound on the hand) and it doesn't hurt much, BTW. The severing of the arteries induces a precipitous drop in perfusion pressure to the cerebral hemispheres and nearly instantaneous unconciousness. This bit of anatomy and physiology is pretty important to understand, as it is critical in answering the charge of cruelty. The effect of Kosher slaughter is entirely different from (say) simply severing the jugular veins by slashing the neck, which will also cause bleeding to death. It may take minutes for the body to die by exsanguination (just as in massive head injury) but the brain isn't perfused. No cerebral perfusion=no conciousness=no pain. Ask any physiologist.

Kosher slaughter does NOT permit the animal to be stunned prior to slaughter, but stunning the animal is no more humane than effective controlled kosher slaughter.

Please read this page:

[Link: www.grandin.com...]

Thanks.

#bigel

You both defend destroying an integral part of Jewish religious law (and one of the first things the Nazi did BTW on coming to power was to ban the production of kosher foods) and then can't see how this is anti-semitism.

Where do I do that then?

#100

that is a load of bullshit. The arabs did not "invent" algebra. All of the principles of algebra had been laid out centuries earlier by Indian and Greek mathematicians. The arabs may have gathered the knowledge into one system, but that's as far as they got.

There was once a rumour that prior to 9/11 there were Muslims (I think it was specifically children) in New York who would point to the towers and say that they soon wouldn't be there. Does anyone know if this is true? And if so, where has it been documented? Thanks.

bigel's talking baseless generalised bollocks as usual I see.

On a positive note the rats have had to cancel their 4 planned celebrations today as all 4 venues have refused them access - I guess they got the message that they wouldn't have a venue left to hire out if they let the subhumans hold their gloatfests.

As to why al muhajiroun are still alive...it's always a tough call for the security service to decide when to pull the plug on a good inteligence source. I think personally we're overdue for a full round-up but they may have some specific plot which they need more intel on before hitting them.

That said, it's certainly well overdue for one or two adresses to end up in the public domain for a little frontier justice to be applied.

Reuters : Al muhajiroun forced to cancel "magnificent 19" celebration

bigel, I think you are a bit shy of the mark.

Though I wouldn't say that anti-semitism in England is trivial, I think you are imputing motives to M.H. and E.B. inappropriately.

#134 Anant

I believe #100 was sarcasm. The "we created Algebra" is comedic myth that's ridiculed around here.

#136 Ian

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

James and I were going back and forth about this.

bigel
I defended him from the accusation that he thinks more of cows than Jews just because he is concerned about cruelty to animals. I didn't say I thought it was cruel. I didn't support the call for it to be banned. So do you think everyone who wants kosher and halal killing banned is anti-muslim too?

Bigel is having a laugh.

Of course, Anti-Semitism is such an integral part of British culture that all these things happened:

1868 - Having lead the Conservative Party through ten years of defeat Benjamin Disraeli becomes PM for the first time. He will serve two further terms and becomes one of Britain's most revered political figures.

1936 - As the British Union of Fascists parade in Cable Street, a predominantly Jewish area of East London with a view to anti-semitic violence, the entire Gentile population comes onto the street to attack the BUF.

2002 - As Manchester University Islamic Society attempts to ban the Jewish Society on the grounds that they are "racist Zionists", 7000 students attempt to attend the vote to block the motion - only 2000 are able to gain access, and the motion is crushed.

The British Left and the Islamofascists hate Jews. The other 95% of the British public do not. You are merely embarrassing yourself by drawing ridiculous and offensive parallels between Britain and Nazi Germany.

Anant #134 - Although I agree on Indian development of algebra, I don't think the Greeks got that far.

off topic, but i thought some of you might get a kick outta this (if you havent already seen it)

/i gotta laugh out of it

@59 another cut n paste

Where do these cretiens dreg up from?

There is no silent majority of moderate muslim.

If there are, let's see you show physical proof of it.

Re Arabs and Algebra

"cmon, the Arabs did a lot more than rearrarange what other people had done. Theuir contribution can't be trivialised. Yes the Hindus and the Greeks made fundamental contributions, but that's like saying "Well, Galileo didn't actually discover elliptical orbits. He just rearranged stuff Euclid and Copernicus already looked at". And as this link makes clear:

[Link: www-groups.dcs.st-andrews.ac.uk...]

That isn't just as far as they got. There's no denying that the West took maths much farther and faster, but really. Credit where credit is due.

Bigel, The possibility was recently raised of banning both Halal and Kosher foods on the grounds of cruelty to animals.

Funny how you just concentrate on the Kosher side of that ban.

Most people in Britain are not anti Jewish. Amongst my family, friends and work colleagues I've never heard an anti Jewish remark.

People are however pissed off with Islam.

This is not as yet reflected in the media who prefer to completely ignore any possible criticism of Islam and its adherents.

And no, I'm not very happy about the writings of Richard Ingram or some of the left wingers who seem so prevelant on TV and journalism.

And yes, I do get pissed off if I see any anti Jewish nonsense in the media.

Your comments about the English are way off mark and offensive.

Bigel, The possibility was recently raised of banning both Halal and Kosher foods on the grounds of cruelty to animals.

Banning kosher slaughter is a traditional means of persecuting Jews. When legislation is introduced and pondered that is identical with one of the traditional ways that European countries have persecuted its Jews its not unreasonable to assume that this measure is meant to be antisemitic in intent.

The fact that it persecutes Muslims too doesn't mitigate it; it exacerbates it.

#121

Note this from your cited article:

"And I can't tell that young man how angry he makes me feel. And I can't tell him how wrong he is. And I can't explain that there are many of us who have been sickened by the slaughter of Palestinian children"

But they have obviously not been sickened by the slaughter of Jewish children.

No, no anti-Semitism in merrie olde England!

148 - Bigel

Disraeli never denied his origins, and they were bought up by his political opponents at every opportunity to imply that he "wasn't one of us". The British public ignored them and elected him three times. Seems a perfectly valid example to me. The Manchester motion was moved by one raving Islamozoid, no one else - and recieved the treatment it deserved.

Your basic position as regards kosher food, as far as I can tell it is that because some moonbat animal rights group, which probably has 7 members and meets over the top of a chip shop in Walthamstow says it thinks kosher and halal slaughter is cruel to animals, the British people are mostly vicious, raving anti-semites. Does that read as ridiculously to you as it does to me?

In the interest of being "fair and balanced," here are some thankfully minority opinions expressed on LGF on three different threads during the past month.

From "Nightline's Moral Equivalence," dated 9/10/03

Bigel (Comment #62) 9/10/03

"And I will not lose one minute of sleep if Gaza or Damascus or Mecca or Aswan are hit with nuclear weapons, and if I see films of dead and suffering Arabs, my thought will be "You got what you f**king deserved."

Jan (Comment #55) 9/10/03

"We live in a cruel real world where 8-year-old palestinian child is a palinazi homicide bombing waiting to happen and in this world I say: GOOD RIDDANCE."

From "Muslim kill Muslim," dated 8/29/03

AK (Comment #1) 8/29/03

“Muslim Kill Muslim ....keep up the good work ya'll”

Nekama (Comment #5) 8/29/03

“Textbook definition of a Win/Win Situation.”

From "UN Headquarters in Baghdad Attacked" dated 8/19/03

Maine’s Michael (Comment #14) 8/19/03

‘Was Kofi in the builidng? /wishful thinking”

Daniel (Comment #23) 8/19/03

“not an iota of sympathy for those backstabbing beaurocrats. They made a conscious decision to ignore (support) terrorism and now they took it right in the *ss. Ironic how it was a suicide bombing, the tactic pioneered by the UN's beloved Palestinians. Damn shame that Kofi wasn't visiting at the time.”

Emperor Misha I (Comment #47) 8/19/03

“And we should feel sympathy for the fucks now?
Well, you can if you want to, but I don't care more about the UN and its minions than I do about Hitler and his henchmen.”

Part of Britain's endemic hatred towards Jews stems in no small measure from the Anglican Church. There have always been factions within the Church which see Judaism as an "incomplete" religion which has been superceeded by Christianity. My father-in-law, who is English, remembers the overt and profound anti-Semitism he experienced as a school boy at a lesser English public school, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of English history cannot fail to see that hating Jews is woven into the fabric of British society.

One of my favorite writers is Anthony Trollope, a rival of Dickens who chronicled the follies and foibles of Victorian society. I love him for his wit and for the fearless way he exposes the hypocricies of the English. At the same time, I have to acknowledge that he is an anti-Semite. Again and again his novels depict Jewish characters who fulfill every stereotype imaginable. They are oily and opportunistic and greedy and cunning. They are dark-haired, big-nosed alien outsiders who are troublesome and untrustworthy and whose presence degrades society at large.

Not much has changes since Trollope's time. Jews are still considered to be an alien presence, only now the Jew-hatred has been enlarged to incorporate hatred of Israel, that alien presence in the Middle East.

@93 Gorynych

Sure there is. On the QT....base ball bats, tar and feathers, rail road ties...and " a mano a mano"..

Start doing unto them as they do unto others....quietly.

In case anyone missed it: Cause celebre.

Halal Vs Kosher: I know something about this having begun my illustrious career in a beef abattoir!

Kosher slaughter is done by Rabbis, by "professionals" who carefully sharpen their knives between the slaughter of each animal. They take great care, believe me. You see, when a knife is expertly sharpened the nerves of the animal's neck are so cleanly severed that no pain is felt. It's true! Some of you may find what I'm about to say a bit disgusting, but I have stood and watched many times as cows have bled to death, during Kosher slaughter, without even realising that their throats have been slit! Believe me, it's possible....providing you're a professional.

Halal slaughter, on the other hand IS truly disgusting. The muslims play the same silly tape of sharp jarring prayer over nad over again. Hey, why should you sharpen your knife when you've just obtained Allah's blessing? The animal can go to hell. They don't cleanly slit the poor cow's throat, they kinda hack and saw.......it IS disgusting.

I defend Kosher slaughter and, yes, I put my money where my mouth is.....the only beef I eat is Kosher beef.

{sniff, sniff} Who farted? Oh, it's you Gordon.

Interesting the comment that Brits have racial problems, at least with "darker skinned people." I only mention this, as the Beeb so loves to talk about the horrid race problems in America, the most racially integrated nation on Earth.

The BBC represents your nation and government to the world, whether technically true, whether you wish it to, or not. What happens from there is up to Britons.

#157 Dom

It was cancelled, I posted the link in #137

bigel,

You go too far in assuming that all Brits are necessarily Jew-haters.

mark holland, english bloke, Overwatch, AndyP

Banning kosher slaughter has a long history of being a way to discourage Jews from practicing their religion. And this is exactly the same thing as bringing up Disraeli as an example of Jews being integrated into UK life - by saying that Jews can be integrated only if they forgo their Jewishness, you're making a pretty interesting statement (for those of you who did).

#148 bigel

Other posters are doing a pretty good job.

In short your premise is one case of anti-semitism = an entrire country hell bent on exterminating Jews and one muslim nutter screaming jihad means we're under sharia law.

So by your logic the fact that CAIR exists and openly peddles it's anti-semitism and that muslims demonstrated in front of the UN in New York screaming "we support bin ladin" means that America is both hugely anti-semitic and under sharia law.

This would clearly be a moronic conclusion to draw, however it's what you do with Britain all the time.

I don't have the inclination to get involved in a back and forth with you as when I have do so previously you just keep peddling the same wildeyed babbling crap.

You don't like Britain, you continually insult the British and defame us as anti-semitic nazis. You are entitled to your opinions however you do not speak for most Jews or most Americans.

Now kindly go forth and multiply.

Outstanding moral equivalence Gordon. I'm going to give it a "9." It was just about a "10," but I just didn't have that "This is the one!" feeling in my gut. Excellent show. And don't think we didn't notice your taking this tragic anniversary to heap your scorn upon the victims who no longer wish to see their innocents slaughtered, while granting a free pass to the rabid butchers of life, limb and liberty.

While you're quite the wretched bastard, I do admire the time and effort you put into your craft.

#161 Overwatch, not quite. The big one's happening in Birmingham on Saturday, there was a meeting in Tottenham this afternoon. He blames MI5 and Scotland Yard for the venues cancelling and cites a legal case 'only we know about because we're involved'(?) but he isn't stopping. You can call them and ask for exact details or check their homepage (almuk.com/obm) for an update.

If any Brits are still reading this,

I will never forget the morning of Sep. 12th either;

When I saw red coats with high fur hats playing my national anthem.

It was a balm for my soul. Thank you

whoops! Just got a message from Yahoo! that the site has exceeded its data transfer, and they hope to have it up in an hour.

Ah, the drawbacks of success!

Gordon, move to Pakistan. Seriously get the fuck out of here. You do not deserve the freedom that the our military dies for. You need to live under Sharia law. You think it's even-steven, tit-for-tat, morally equivalent? Leave.

People.....people.........why should any of us be surprised that Muslims the world over were celebrating on 9-11 and on the following anniversaries??

The founder of this bloodthirsty cult, Muhammed, would have wetted himself in joy if he were alive on 9-11!!

To us who are in the know about Islam, none of this is surprising.........except for assholes who have no moral clarity like Gordon, we know Islam is a monstrosity that creates monsters.........I am glad that many on this board have properly learned this fact.......

Mayby for the ignorant like Gordon, their will be some enlightening too!!

Devon Hill

Never Forget
Death to Islam
Freedom for Muslims

#165 Dom, thanks for the update, I'd not checked the site this afternoon.

For the Brits -

Office 1F - N17 Studios, 784 High Rd, Tottenham, London N17 where the press conference took place is a rented office in a large block of offices and studios. Among the tenants are a daycare facility for toddlers. By making it a target for hotheads who may take foolish direct action against the premises Al Muhajiroun are clearly putting other tenants at risk for their own vile ends.

The property is owned by the following company - please drop them a polite note asking them to cancel the lease immediately as they are placing fellow tenants in danger and causing commercial disrepute to the company.

Workspace Group PLC
Magenta House
85 Whitechapel Road
London
E1 1DU

020 7377 1154

info@workspacegroup.co.uk

[Link: www.workspacegroup.co.uk...]

Australia isn't immune, either. There was a similar incident at the University of Queensland in 2001, where Muslim students found a TV replaying CNN footage and started cheering and yelling "bullseye!" This happened in front of other students and staff. To be fair, local Muslim community leaders later criticised them, but the similar incidents that occurred in Lakemba and Bankstown did rather take the edge off their argument that it was a regrettable one-off occurence.

@164 model4

"Outstanding moral equivalence Gordon. I'm going to give it a "9." It was just about a "10," but I just didn't have that "This is the one!" feeling in my gut. Excellent show. And don't think we didn't notice your taking this tragic anniversary to heap your scorn upon the victims who no longer wish to see their innocents slaughtered, while granting a free pass to the rabid butchers of life, limb and liberty.

While you're quite the wretched bastard, I do admire the time and effort you put into your craft. "

Quite brilliant and well put my friend.

#171 Bigel

Europe's Jew-hatred may be a disease, but another way to think about it is that so many Jews have been murdered and buried and Europe that Jew-hatred is in the soil.

Gordon, I think we should officially rename you "The Ostrich".

Keep sticking your head in the sand. Down in your hole, everything is equal. Please stay there. Let the realists run the show.

Thank you.

158 John Palubiski and bigel
I am quite happy to eat kosher food.
But I'm glad I never went to this place which was just round the corner from where I'm posting.

from Aaron's #18 link

On the second anniversary of 9-11, As-Sabeel Agency have released a flash movie exposing the true victims of terrorist attacks. Not for one day, not in just one country, but across the Ummah our children are being targetted in the War on Islaam.

Sabeel, my poor deluded neighbor, this is not a war on Islam, though one is probably coming. You and your kind are hastening its arrival. You will know it by the brilliant white flashes that light up the skies of the Middle East.

Patience.

#166 papertiger - Thanks for your comments. Makes a change from some of the idiotic anti-British remarks on this thread.

#154 Gordon

i can't say that I think anyone should celebrate the death of anyone else. I find it repellant that people do so, though I can certainly relate to the impulse.

But if you are going to draw moral equivalence, please recall that there is a difference

#1. between typing something on a semi-anonymous blog and getting out in the street, cheering. Also

#2. There is also (more importantly) a difference between expressing a lack of sympathy for someone's demise, and a celebration of the same.

I can see why someone might debate assertion #1. But the factthat you didn't see #2 as apparently debateable is troubling, and makes me wonder. Is this part of "rationalism"?

PS Gordon #154: you also just managed a 2 on my idiot list of excuses:

"You do it too".

Just so you know: that particular argument is a logical fallacy: "ad hominem tu quoque". Simply put, just because someone is a hypocrit does not mean that their opinion is in error. It just means that they are a hypocrit.

Here you go:

[Link: www.nizkor.org...]

#166 Papertiger

Thank you.

We, therefore, here in Britain stand shoulder to shoulder with our American friends in this hour of tragedy, and we, like them, will not rest until this evil is driven from our world.

Tony Blair in a radio address to Great Britain on 9/11

Gordon, #154

So what? What's your point? That there's no difference between writng an angry or foolish posting on a blog and taking to the streets to publicly celebrate the murder of 3,000 people with fireworks, flag waving, uluations, and the handing out of sweets?

Paul (#183)

Oh no, in Gordon's mind, it's worse! He'll forgive the Muslims anything.

Gordon,

Main difference:

They want to kill us because they hate us.

We need to defend ourselves by killing them.

They hate us because we are successful and because their societies are failures.

We're angry at them because they attack us.

Nekama wants Mecca nuked because she thinks it might persuade them to stop killing us. Islamofascists want New York nuked because they hate-non Muslims.

Understand?

Oh no, in Gordon's mind, it's worse! He'll forgive the Muslims anything.

That's not quite my read on Gordo. It's not so much that he'll forgive the Arabs for anything, it's that he'll forgive America for nothing.

Gordon - here is another one for your list. See if you can follow the logic.

1. A society or group that practices or tolerates terror (e.g. Palis, Saudi, Iran, Syria, Yemen, the Muslims in UK, the Muslims in France, the Muslims in Fairfax and Vienna, VA who teach their children that killing Jews is a religious obligation) is an evil society that poses an imminent and substantial danger to other, innocent people.

2. It is permissible, indeed, obligatory, to root out, expose, and, when necessary, destroy those who pose an imminent and substantial danger to innocent people.

3. If evil is not rooted out, and innocents die as a result, those who failed to act to stop the evil are, at least, negligent. Those who counsel non-action, or who attempt to cover up the threat (you know, sort of like your average lefty U.S. university professor or Meretz/Labor party member circa 1996) is actually complicit in the crime (sort of an unindicted coconspirator, as it were).

THEREFORE:

It follows there is an absolute moral imperative to kill them today, and kill them tomorrow, and kill them the day after, until the evil that celebrates death of children in a cafe, and glories in the sight of men and women jumping from a skyscraper window, is eradicated from the earth, and the threat to our children and our values and our way of life, is well and truly crushed.

It further follows, to paraphrase a great American, that you are either with the forces of freedom, or with the forces of oppression and murder. No grey areas to hide in Gordon - make your choice.

#184 paul

"Well, you see Paul, its important to understand the root causes of Muslim rage. Just as we are angry at them, so are they angry at us. We need to empathise with this anger so that we can take steps to prevent such a terrible thing happening again. Once you realise that we are all the same under the skin, maybe we won't resort to tragic and costly violence so easily. "

translation:

"I'm a victim looking for a mugger. "

I don't mind Gordon drawing moral equivalencies between my hatred and theirs.

The fact is I do hate them. So? At least it's now out in the open that we hate each other. Right? Goooood.

So can you, Gordon, finally admit that they hate us too? and not only do they hate us, they attack us at every opportunity? And if so, shouldn't we bomb the shit out of them?

I don't care if you don't think I'm a nice guy or an asshole chickenhawk. Why? because I don't give a crap about your peacenik and terrorist defending philosophies.

I have clarity about this. You, however, don't.

Bigel, #178

Are you sure you aren't an Islamist agent provocateur?

In a perfect world (ha !), WE would be celebrating September 12th (IE the day many Muslim capitals ceased to exist )...Christ, George Bush should have had his trial in the Hague commencing just about now !

Thank you all, for missing my point.

You should hate those who perpetrated the World Trade Center atrocity. You should hate those who celebrate that event. You should rejoice when they are killed in the caves of Tora Bora, when they are assassinated in the West Bank and Gaza, when they are killed in the toilet in Mosul.

But should you:

Rejoice when a Palestinian child is killed as collateral damage on an assassination attempt against Hamas scum, as Bigel and Jan did yesterday?

Rejoice when citizens of a city (Najaf) going about their business are killed by a car bomb, as AK and Nekama did on August 29?

Rejoice when UN workers are killed by a car bomb in Baghdad, as Maine's Michael, Daniel, and Emperor Misha I did on August 19?

The answer is: no you shouldn't. You destroy those who would destroy you. You sometimes kill innocents as collateral damage. But you don't rejoice in that killing. If you do, then you are truly no better than those who rejoiced over the works of Osama bin Laden and Mohammed Atta on September 11, 2001.

And, please note that I stated this is a minority viewpoint on LGF. For instance, those who rejoiced in the death of UN workers on August 19 got a sound whipping from the LGF majority.

But they're out there on this site, and their presence is disturbing.

#192 Gordon

No, no, I didn't miss your point.

I rejected it.

Please re-read #180. C-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.

Move your lips if you need to.

Deport them. Revoke the citizenship, even if they were born there. They don't share your history, That is not their land that they developed. It is not there home.

They came to your home and they are sh*tting in the middle of it. Winston Churchill is turning over in his grave.

Start your mass deportation before you have a civil war on your hands, Britain.

God bless you Sharon G. in Luton

Hear! Hear! Well now, we have something to celebrate. Fox News is reporting that US Army Units of the 101st Airborne and the 3rd Armored Calvaly captured 80 foreign fighters in Iraq near Mosul.

That's how we should be honoring the dead of 9/11 -- by killing and capturing as many murdering Jihadis as we can get our hands on. That's how the Jihadis should be thinking of this date, as a day that they should cower in fear.

"We'll raise up your glasses against evil forces
Whiskey for my men, beer form my horses"!

#192 Hhar: Ignoring your gratuitous insult, which detracts from your valid question, here is my answer:

Of the seven comments I quoted five can be classified definitely in the "lack of sympathy" department, while two seem to be in the "celebration" department. There is a difference, but it is one of degree, not of kind.

Finally, do you think it is perfectly OK to "not have sympathy" for a dead Palestinian child, a dead average Joe citizen of Najaf, and a dead UN worker?

Goddammit, Gordon. Will you put a cork in it already? The stench is becoming unbearable.

bigel

You are talking arrant nonsense about Britain and the views of people in Britain ?

Have you always been so bitter and twisted ? Your views are as extreme as those of the Islamofascists.

OT--CNN is showing hundreds of Palestinians swarming Arafat's h.q. in an effort to prevent their fearless leader from being summarily ejected by the Israelis. The CNN reporter-drone is droning on about how Arafat is still adored by his hopeless supporters...

#171 bigel
show me where anyone here has advocated banning kosher meat or fuck off. No, on second thoughts, just fuck off.

You'd make a good recuiting sergeant for the BNP you fucking nutcase.

As the nurse at Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem said to Larry Miller the codedian, when he saw Arab children waiting with their parents for treatment at the hospital, and asked how can you give them equal medical treatment. She said - that's our job. but it makes it kind of hard when they cheer.

papertiger

You will have seen TV coverage of the daily Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace playing US tunes on 12 September 2001.

But you may not have seen TV coverage of the memorial service at St Paul's Cathedral a few days later, where there were thousands of Londoners in the streets outside, joining in - for instance with the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

And I don't know whether US TV showed the mid-September 2001 "Last Night of the Proms" concert from the Royal Albert Hall. Where 6000 voices joined in singing the US national anthem before God Save the Queen.

"Thank you all, for missing my point."

You're quite welcome. But I got your point. There are some postings on lgf that I think are in bad taste or extreme. But I suspect that most posters are decent people anonymously venting deep emotions. I don't find that disturbing, I think it's cathartic.

bigel, what's your solution?

The English are not anti-semites.

We can turn over our own rocks here in North America and find anti-semites too but that doesn't make the vast majority of us anti-semites.

The Klan bombed a synagogue in Atlanta and two of the three civil rights activists lynched by the Klan in Mississippi were Jews.(This filled them with glee as they hate Jews more than blacks) There were quotas, if not all out bans, on Jews attending universites in the past and so on.

I don't see this as representative of our thinking now and think it was a minorty in the past too.

So to try and cast all the English as anti-semities is just garbage.

An old article that summarises the sickness endemic in Islam :

[Link: observer.guardian.co.uk...]

(Oh - and it was in the Observer, the Sunday paper published by the Guardian group. Which perhaps contradicts bigel's line that all UK journalism is irredeemably anti-semitic)

bigel

I have to conclude that you are as sick as your foolish views.

GAZE

#202 JohninLondon

CNN (I think) broadcast part of the memorial at St. Paul's. The crowd looked really huge, and it was very touching and comforting to see that.

But it was the playing of the U.S. national anthem on 9/12 that hit home the hardest. On 9/11 and for several weeks after I was consumed by murderous rage, and only rage, but seeing the Brits playing our anthem (with great dignity) made me get all weepy, because I felt loved. I still smile when I think of it.

Bigel,

I think someone who posted earlier on the thread hit it dead on - you're a jihadi plant here to cause division between allies. You certainly sound like one with your fucking insane nuclear fantasies and endless whining based on fuck all. Admit it, you're called muhammed and you work for CAIR in their agiprop section.

Now as Mark requested - kindly fuck off.

#196

Sympathy for the Palestinian child that unknowingly to him is being used as a pawn in Araft power struggle?
YES.

For that child(future protoplasmic bomb) demise. NO

Sympathy for the "dumbed down," Palestinian. YES

For his demise. Over an US or an Israeli soldier. NO

You operate on false premises. And, think that using
"western civility," as a tool to create mental instability in the purpose or right of just cause for those that deserve it, is transparent. Very PC of you.

I am the most civil person in the world. I respect any living creature that God saw fit to put on this globe.
But, when that respect is not reciprocated I have no moral conscience to not pull the plug on someone advocating my demise. And there are millions out here just like me.
Turn of the mind polluting television and travel amongst the grassroots. You will find that your type of drivel falls on deaf ears, due to "common sense," which you comletely lack.
You need to move in with the Palestinians and give comfort to that child.... for in the future the elders will talk him/her to forfeit life, so Arafat can breathe another day while living large.

So make yourself useful and get over there. Give up your cushy USA and go share those hovels Araft led those people into.

#212 Well put.

#209: bigel

I was talking about your hateful view of Britain and Europe. Britain actually stepped in the ring and fought on the side of the US. If you want to bash some appeasers, choose France and Germany. And even they show some tiny progress (recognizing Hamas as a terrorist organization). Latent anti-Semitism in Europe, if I recall a recent study correctly, is at 15-20% in Britain, as in the rest of Europe (still way too high, but overgeneralizations are counter-productive, especially concerning the Brits).

I don't think your fundamental views will take you anywhere or are helpful. You're venting frustration like a child. Comprehensible in a way, but childish.

Hey Bigel,

I think most Euroweenies suck, let alone the insipid brits, so what do you think about that? So cheer up.

Not that I don't admire blair. There's a brit with some balls.

As for the hyperbole about nuking the [bigoted word]s, well that's just the result of all the pc crap going around these days. If there was more honesty instead of PC thought control, I'm sure you wouldn't feel the need, out of pure frustration, to use such hyperbole.

bigel

I regard you as a nutcase because you spew continual nonsense about the Brits.

I am not a Brit - I just happen to have lived amongst the Brits for many decades. So I know in my bones, and from all my contacts with the Brits, that you a fool. And I am sure virtually all Jews in Britain would also call you a fool.

Your extremist views are contemptible.

#210 Tasty Beverage

But it was the playing of the U.S. national anthem on 9/12 that hit home the hardest. On 9/11 and for several weeks after I was consumed by murderous rage, and only rage, but seeing the Brits playing our anthem (with great dignity) made me get all weepy, because I felt loved. I still smile when I think of it.

I never doubted that the Brits would stand with us. You always know your true friends. But them playing our national anthem made me misty eyed. I knew we were going to war on 9-11. It heartened me to know the Brits would be with us again.

bigel

Your central point was that the Brits are endemically anti-semitic. That is total rubbish. I have said on this board before, in over 50 years in Britain I have never heard ordinary Brits expressing anti-semitic views.

But plenty of them express very strong views about Islamofascism.

Get a grip.

I would agree with Bigel. European hedging and hawing is frankly sickening.

Like Elrond said, "the blood of Numenor is spent."

And that's fine, you folks have been through a few centuries of war, and Hitler and Stalin basically castrated you. But if you won't help, kindly step aside and let us get the job done, the way we've always done.

cheers

#218 Bigel,

Well as I'm not a bigotted piece of shit like you I won't respond with sweeping defamations of either our friends in America or Israel.

You bring shame on your faith and your nation.

Now, for the third time, kindly fuck off.

#219 reaganite - You should rest assured that most Brits see the USA and its citizens as allies. I don't hear anti-Jewish remarks day to day but I do notice a growing awareness of the danger of Islam.

I'm hope you, and other posters, realise that we don't appreciate being portrayed as rabid Jew haters. The Nazi comparisons are particularly offensive given how Britain stood alone against Germany for over a year in World War II.

Just as I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate all the USA being compared with the KKK.

Easy on guys. The Islamists that you see are the ones that you see. The majority of Brits are with you in this war as no one else is. In many instances these Islamofreaks had to be protected otherwise they would have the sh.. kicked out of them.

And for those who would happily visit Italy and Spain but not Britain. THINK. Which nation has been fighting side by side with you in Iraq 1991, Afghanistan 2001-03 and in Iraq right now. Are they Italians? Spaniards? Get real. Which nation's contribution in terms of actual fighting, given our size, rather then peacekeeping, is virtually the same as the US? And may I ask, which Italian and Spanish SAS units went into Iraq and Afghanistan long before even the air action started. And come to that, is there any doubt that Pres Bush would have found it politically impossible without the support of the British?

Now for those who think that Britain is finished. Britain has a long history of facing down tyrants and dictators. Europe may respond to brute force and aggression with appeasement but this country has seen off the likes of Napoleon and Hitler; a dictator we fought on by ourselves while the rest of the world, including the US was taking nap.

I dont wish to see Anglo-American discord develop here because of the inanities of some Muslims in the UK. I'm sure there are plenty of that sort in the US as well. New Jersey maybe? We need to keep reminding ourselves that when the US and the UK are allies in war, we never lose. And that is all that I'm interested in.

#221

If you've never heard "ordinary Brits" express anything anti-Semitic, how do you account for the views expressed almost daily in The Guardian, The Independent, the BBC, Reuters, etc.

The thing about British anti-Semitism is that it may not always be expressed with the vigor of the raving loonies on the context, but it's a subtext in British society, and it's always there.

Continent, not context. I really need to use that preview button.

#224 Spitfire

You should rest assured that most Brits see the USA and its citizens as allies.

Never a doubt in my mind. I enjoyed my assignment to RAF Upper Heyford. One of my high points.

I'm hope you, and other posters, realise that we don't appreciate being portrayed as rabid Jew haters. The Nazi comparisons are particularly offensive given how Britain stood alone against Germany for over a year in World War II.

I learned long ago to scroll past certain posters. You have every right to be offended. I'm on your side.

Just as I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate all the USA being compared with the KKK.

Funny how they ignore the obvious when they use a small number of asshats to bash the UK but typically ignore our own problems.

O/T (and because I need a little levity)

#64 axiom

Page 3 girls keep me quiet for a good long while.

especially the ones on the internet "lodge"

Where were the moderate Muslims condemning these celebrations?

I'll tell you -- they were cavorting with unicorns, chimeras, and other mythical creatures.

Gordon,

I don't fault you (most of the time) when you pull your schtick. I think it comes from a good place. Sometimes I think it is even beneficial and needs to be said. If you want to continue to do it, knock your socks off.

But I would remind you as you wallow in your angst, more Christians have been murdered in Pakistan alone than Muslims have been murdered in all of the Western countries combined since 9/11/01.

I run into quite a few lefties who stay awake at night over alleged hatred toward Muslims. Meanwhile, others in Muslims lands are truly the victims of hate.

Just remember to keep a little perspective.

#226 scaramouche

If you've never heard "ordinary Brits" express anything anti-Semitic, how do you account for the views expressed almost daily in The Guardian, The Independent, the BBC, Reuters, etc.

How do you explain the NYT, WaPo, NPR, etc?

Actually Spitfire, the fact that a current US Senator was an actual grand kleagle of the KKK (Robert Byrd) would give the British just as much ammo to said that the KKK represents all Americans as Galloway gave to those who say that all Brits are anti-semitic.

Totally OT,

Would someone explain to me how people can say the Republicans are racist when Trent Lott was forced to resign (mostly by Republicans) as Senate Majority Leader for pining after segregation, but no one is demanding that Byrd resign from the Senate for actually holding office in the Kluckers?

#234 Atomic Redneck
One word answer, Democrat.

it seems to me that bigel (and scaramouche to a lesser extent) are of the JDL stripe.

You want to think that everyone hates Jews? Fine. It's not true, but there's no convincing you. hopefully your rage at all that is not "of the tribe" is as impotent as it is vitrolic.

Or maybe it's just agents provacateurs at work.

and lest you think that was a complete attack, it's not. We're all on the same side to the muslims, so I'm glad you're with us rather than against us.

reaganite, agreed. But why doesn't anyone see the double standard or care?

whew.

i was worried there for a bit, because we were all getting a little extreme, but thankfully Gordymedia has come along with this calm voice of rationalism.

about time.

oops, forgot
/sarcasm

i was worried there for a bit, because we were all getting a little extreme, but thankfully Gordymedia has come along with this calm voice of rationalism.

"Gordymedia", LOLOLOL

#232 reaganite: Indeed, how do you explain any questioning of Israel's right to annex the West Bank and "transfer" or "reverse dhimmi" all the Palestinians as anti-semitism? Are you the boy who cried wolf?

You sound like the Jerusalem Post. And that's not a compliment.

to all those brits on this thread. I, as an american, appreciate your support whole-heartedly. that goes for the aussies and surprisingly the poles and spaniards as well.
britians finest moment was definitely the battle of britian. a society is defined by how it reacts when its back is against the wall and i do not doubt the resolve of the common brit, especial those outside of inner london.

During research for my book, one of the most virulent Islamofascists propagandists I ever interviewed was a British citizen, spoke the queens english and thought london, heaven and mecca were about the same place. At the same time, when I was in Europe a week or so after 9-11 the only people who were cool to me were Brits, so I think we see a split in Britain. Polls say about half of brits hate us, half love us, half hate Israel, and about half supported their wonderful leader Tony Blair when he backed us. So I think we see a strong disconnect between the secularist "Europeans" and the religio-moral "British".

#238 Atomic Redneck

But why doesn't anyone see the double standard or care?

We see it, the L³ never will.

#226 scaramouche

Newspapers such as the Independent, Guardian have the right to express what they wish. However I have not seen anything expressly anti-semetic. Anti-Isreal certainly and there is case that anti-Israel is a code for anti-Jewish. But purely anti-Jewish, no I dont believe there is overt racism of that sort. Covert maybe. But what the hell, no one is perfect. I'm sure there is covert anti-semitism in America as well. And may I remind you of the NYT.

As regards the BBC on the issue of anti-Israel, I have been writing about this for over 10 years. The BBC became quite anti-Israel and pro-palestinian at the time of the Lebanon civil war in the eighties. The reasons are fairly obvious.

But really Jews are the most successful people in Britain not just in academia, business etc but in politics as well ie,. they get elected. In the Thatcher era more then half of the cabinet was Jewish. Not that it makes any difference.

Oh by the way, are you still of the opinion that Italy and Spain are better allies in war then Britain. Perhaps you would like to querry the Pentagon on this and see if they prefer a brigade of Italians or a mere regiment of the 2nd para on their flanks?

And I iterate. Britain and America united are unbeatable.

#242 VFI Gordon
Gordo, let me explain this to you simply, FOAD. You are not worth any more time than that.

#147 & others, slightly OT: It's worth your keeping left-wing & right-wing antisemitism separate as issues, in Britain as elsewhere.

Richard Ingrams & the satirical magazine Private Eye which he used to edit have always been antisemitic - attacking Jews & Israel on a geopolitical level as well as Jewish individuals, basically for being there & being Jewish. However, they stand for the "right" of the traditional Anglo-Saxon Englishman to die among & only among the people & comforts - men-only clubs, village cricket, rip-foxy-to-shreds hunting with hounds, discreet pederasty, etc - to which he is accustomed. They belong to the traditionalist, reactionary & curmudgeonly Right. They have less than no love for the US, hardly more than for Israel & Jews.

Other shades of the Right in Britain, exemplified by Christopher Hitchens's less intelligent brother Peter, essentially buy Edmund Burke's ideology that only England exemplifies a "manly, disciplined liberty". Not only is continental European influence a bad thing, but US influence is even worse. For them the best thing about pre-1960s Britain was a special self-restraint called "decency", which involved respect for the Monarchy & other inherited institutions, & above all a "curious voluntary asexuality" (see Pountain's book on "Cool"). Hitchens explicitly accuses the American GI in Britain ("overfed, oversexed & over here") of subverting "decency". Jews aren't much of an issue for this tendency.

Both the above tendencies are exemplified in the British Conservative Party. The 1st is genuinely "Tory"; the 2nd historically "right-wing Whig", though also close to the pre-WW2 "Little Englanders".

I think that most LGFers are essentially libertarians or classical liberals - advocates of the Locke-Montesquieu ideal of personal freedom & responsibility embodied in the US Constitution. They admire Israel as an island of related or similar values in a sea of seething enmity to these values. They don't want to see these values eroded in countries (especially the US) where they've long been established. They consider Islamism the main live threat to these values.

They shouldn't too easily see themselves as belonging to the Right, or as "conservatives". Conservatism is the doctrine of "We allus knew how to treat our nigras", or "How dare we live differently from the Prophet (salla'lLah 'alaihi wa sallam) & his Companions in the 7th century!".

In Straussian terms: Unlike real conservatives, we should not eschew Modernity - we should espouse its Locke-Montesquieu-US Founding "1st Wave" rather than the Rousseau-Hegel-Marx "2nd Wave" or the Nietzsche-Heidegger-PoMo "3rd wave". Other than "classical liberals", where the word "liberal" is misleading because of its use in the US as a euphemism for "left-wing", or "libertarians", which may sound too limited to the anarcho-capitalist doctrine of David Friedman or the Objectivism of Ayn Rand - I'm not sure what to call us.

I saw a muslim 911 website earlier today Titled:
never forgive , never forget

They talked about the millions of muslim babies murdered by America.
Then they had a slide show of some of thoses babies

There was the little kid who was hiding behind a concrete pillar with his dad in gaza city ( I have heard this was a discredited propaganda stunt )

There was the little kid with the head bandage that was crying in the emergency room of a Baghdad hospital prior to the end of the war. ( the same one who was crying because of the throng of reporters jostleing for a picture of him)

There was a couple pictures of the children of Hallabja{is that the proper spelling} killed by the gas attack of Saddam.

I didn't watch the whole show. I'm sure they were just about to get to the muslim babies that the USA killed, or maybe not.

Charles P #248,

Here's the best explanation of the philosophy of most LGFers I've ever seen.

bigel,

You know we're all generally on the same side here. It would be really nice if you could turn down the:
* evil Jew-hating Europeans
* evil Jew-hating British
* Sampson option

There is some portion of truth to what you say - by and large Jew-hatred can describe the policy and media of much of Europe - but that doesn't mean that all Europeans (and/or British) are evil Jew-haters who deserve to die.

#250 Bigel

Yeah..you got us there. She clearly wanted to exterminate Jews because she never had a senior Jewish cabinet member.

Oh, hang on..Sir Leon Brittan was Home Secratary under Thatcher...but hey...why let facts get in the way of your Brit-hating vitriol.

Twat.

reaganite,

I wonder if you ever saw this: [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Big guns line up to save Cold War base from development
By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor
(Filed: 27/05/2002)

English Heritage is backing moves to turn part of a former American airbase into a monument to the Cold War.

The bomb-proof battle command centre, aircraft shelters and nuclear weapons stores are among buildings on the 1,250 acre site at Upper Heyford, Oxon, which have been recommended for statutory protection.

RAF Upper Heyford, Oxon
But campaigners want the entire military side of the base including the 1.8 mile runway to be preserved intact, as a permanent reminder of 50 years of nuclear tensions.

The fate of the base is to be decided at a planning inquiry starting next month which will consider plans to build 1,000 homes on the site. The North Oxfordshire Consortium, which has a 25-year lease from the Ministry of Defence to exploit the site's potential, eventually hopes to build 5,000 houses there.

I don't know what happened with the application. As you can see it was some time ago.

I know radar stations in Norfolk have been preserved and I keep meaning to check out KELVEDON HATCH SECRET NUCLEAR BUNKER. Definately as worth preserving as a castle or HMS Victory I say.

#253 mark holland
I actually read that on early bird a long time ago. I got a kick out of it. Even though I was assigned to Heyford, my unit was on Bicester. I've always wondered if the bar I built is still there!

Oh, and I lived on Croughton.

248 Charles P

knockout post, superb,

just a slight correction, I think it was "overpaid, over sexed and over here". All with no animosity I'm sure.

252 OverWatch

Keith Joseph (later Sir). Super important person to Mrs Thatcher. He was the driving force when in opposition. Basically defined Thatcherism. Presentend the whole shadow cabinet with copies of 'the Road to Serfdom' Later education secretary, possibly other posts.

I think Nigel Lawson was also a Red Sea pedestrian.

From the book "Svengali's Web: The Alien Enchanter in Modern Culture" by Daniel Pick; Yale University Press, 2000. The book explores the phenomenon of George Du Maurier's novel 'Trilby' in the late 19C and how the character of Svengali, a Jew, incorporated and embodied fears about hypnotism and alien outsiders like the Jews having a sinister power to use their powers of mesmerism to control individuals and events.

"Du Maurier would no doubt have balked at the grosser hatred of many of his contemporaries, yet one also encounters him recoiling from 'the Jew'. Some Victorian critics drew attention to this kind of conflict within the same person, even identifying such a double perspective as a typical feature of English political psychology. In short, it was noted that racial distaste co-existed with the very liberal and enlightened points of view that, in theory, disavowed those same prejudices. The fact that anti-Semitism was not open and crude, it was argued, did not mean it was absent or without effect..."

By the way, I am an Anglophile, I just happen to despise anti-Semitism and I think nothing is served by turning a blind eye to it.

Reaganite,

was the bar in Bicester? If so I wouldn't count on it being there too much longer! [Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]

I don't really know the area to honest, save for going to Blenheim Palace once and another time having great night in a pub in Duns Tew with an old college buddy.

Pretty area up there. Handy for Stratford upon Avon I guess if the Bard is your bag!

#226 scaramouche

Newspapers such as the Independent, Guardian have the right to express what they wish. However I have not seen anything expressly anti-semetic. Anti-Isreal certainly and there is case that anti-Israel is a code for anti-Jewish. But purely anti-Jewish, no I dont believe there is overt racism of that sort. Covert maybe. But what the hell, no one is perfect. I'm sure there is covert anti-semitism in America as well. And may I remind you of the NYT.

As regards the BBC on the issue of anti-Israel, I have been writing about this for over 10 years. The BBC became quite anti-Israel and pro-palestinian at the time of the Lebanon civil war in the eighties. The reasons are fairly obvious.

But really Jews are the most successful people in Britain not just in academia, business etc but in politics as well ie,. they get elected. In the Thatcher era more then half of the cabinet was Jewish. Not that it makes any difference.

Oh by the way, are you still of the opinion that Italy and Spain are better allies in war then Britain. Perhaps you would like to querry the Pentagon on this and see if they prefer a brigade of Italians or a mere regiment of the 2nd para on their flanks?

And I iterate. Britain and America united are unbeatable.

To finally lay that nonsense about a ban of kosher food to rest:

Britain rejects ban on kosher slaughter

#258 mark holland

so I wouldn't count on it being there too much longer!

That's a shame. It was 16 feet long, oak and stone. In my career it was the best one I built. I'll have to out do it with the one I'm building now.

There was a pub in Stokes Lyn (sp?) we used to regular. We weren't well accepted at first. Once they found out we were EOD they liked us just fine.

My youngest brother made me go to Stratford upon Avon. He did the tourist thing, I did the pub. The pub owner seeing I was a Yank asked me if I wanted a Bud. I looked him in the eye and said, I live here, why would I drink that? He laughed and handed me a pint of Tenant's.

Warwick Castle was my favorite, near Banbury.

#252 - Overwatch, wasn't Michael Howard also in the cabinet at some point? I can't remember if it was under Thatcher or Major.

If you're from the UK I guess you're aware that this whole "Jew" thing really isn't an issue in the UK with the vast majority of people. It's completely secondary (or more likely sixthly or seventhly) to what the person is actually like. I've never heard anyone defined as a Jew (as opposed to their profession, which football team they support etc) in any of my social circles.

It seems to be the case that the writings of a minority of bigoted reporters means that the whole of the UK can be depicted as a hotbed of anti-Jewishness by an equally few narrow minded idiots whose sole knowledge of Britain is gathered from a few news articles.

#244 Joshua

During research for my book, one of the most virulent Islamofascists propagandists I ever interviewed was a British citizen, spoke the queens english and thought london, heaven and mecca were about the same place

I think I know who you are referring to. He is basically Nazi nut who has ltched on to Islam as a conveniennt vehicle.

#250 Bigel

Keith Joseph, Leon Brittan, Nigel Lawson, Rifkind(?), Mellor, David Younger; just off the cuff.

Keep your hate to yourself where it belongs.

#249 Charles P

Excellent analysis but there are not many in contemporary Britain who would know who oir what Locke or a whig is.

The reality is that in many workplaces in Britain 3 minute silence was observed. I woinder if such was the case in Italy, Spain, Germany and France.

#263 Spitfire

Precise and succinct. Perfect.

#261 Bigel

I was responding to your "no senior cabinet roles" assertion. To be quite frank I have no idea how many Jews she had in her cabinet as I couldn't give a toss about whether a politican is a Jew or not - I care about are they effective.

As you're the one obsessed with playing "spot the Jew" then that can be a research project for you. Starting with Thatcher and ending up now go and find out

a) How many Jewish MP's there were
b) Whether this was more or less representative than the average number of Jewish MP's based on what percetnage of British people were Jewish at each election.
c) In each government, based on the number of Jewish MP's in the party of Government what percentage of them held cabinet posts compared to the percentage of all MPs of that party holding cabinet posts.

When you've done you can come back and let us know the results and will be in a position to answer, backed with facts, the following questions -

Are the Jewish people in Britain under represented in Parliament?

Are Jewish MP's under-represented in the Cabinet?

...I think you'll be quite surprised at the results (being that you think Britain is evil and anti-semitism incarnate)

#269 OverWatch
I was mulling this over, you were much more polite then I was going to be.

Bigel, # 268

The bureaucrats in the "Farm Animal Welfare Council" demanded it and were turned down. That's not serious considerations by the government as such.

#269 & #270

All Mrs T's ministers are listed here. Like OverWatch says, I don't care which of them is or isn't any religion as long as they do their job well.

Also, let us not forget which seat Mrs T held for all those years.

bigel #264,

I don't really completely agree with you. And that's why I felt the urge to post.

Here's the truth about the Sampson Option: If it happens, we're all screwed already. So why bother discussing nuking the better part of the Arab world (at a minimum)? There's no gain from it - if it happens, we're all pretty much goners.

If we're discussing Jew-hatred - I have a problem with the Jew-hatred that I've seen in Europe. But that doesn't mean that every single person in Europe is necessarily a Jew-hater. You insult people when you say that they are, just because they live in Europe. And frankly, most of the people who frequent this site (VFI excepted) have no tolerance for Jew-hatred - so it's not useful (or nice, or good) to tell them that they're Jew-haters, when they're the sort of people who'd punch a Jew-hater if they knew one.

#274 bigel
Give it a fucking rest already.

#249 Charles P

Excellent analysis but there are not many in contemporary Britain who would not know who or what Locke or a whig is.

And to the rest of our Americal allies:

The reality is that many workplaces in Britain observed a 3 minute silence. I wonder if such was the case in Italy, Spain, Germany and France.

The tragedy is that we have the worst of the Islamist nuts. Mostly they hail from the hinterlands of Pakistan while the US was wise enough to allow only those who had some educational qualifications. But even then look at the problems there are with CAIR and even with highly qualified muslim professionals in the US, american citizens, who have turned against the US. I'm fairly sure that many Muslims in America are rejoicing in secret. They cannot do so openly as it was the US that was attacked. A similar situation would exist here, if Britain had been attacked.

As I've said before, the 9/11 spectacle will always be commemorated in Muslim minds as a great victory. It will bring a smile of satisfaction, even when they have been defeated comprehensively. Visualise a similar scenario in the minds of the Japanese between the years 1941-1945. Even though by 1944, most Japanese must have realised they had lost the war, the thought that they had struck a mighty and spectacular blow on the US at Pearl Harbour, must have brought a smile of satisfaction to their faces. Nothing, they thought, not even defeat could take that away from them.
They were wrong. The counter spectacle that the US demonstrated at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, wiped that smile of satisfaction and gloating, forever.

We will know we have achieved victory when we have wiped that smile of Muslim faces and they regard 9/11 as the day of al naqba.

There are many who write that 9/11 was the day that changed America. I dont think so. America is too strong and stable a democracy to be changed by one attack on a couple of buildings. It was not America that changed on Dec 7 1941 but Japan and Japanese society as a whole, though the Japanese did not realise this till much later. And so I think it will be with Islam and 9/11.

#277 bigel
You weren't talking about France here, you were slandering the UK, hardly the same thing.

192 Gordon

Oh bejesus. I can think of no better way to commemorate 9/11 than chatting with Gordon.

Rejoice when a Palestinian child is killed as collateral damage on an assassination attempt against Hamas scum, as Bigel and Jan did yesterday?

A Hamas assehole's child, statistically speaking, agrees with father 90% of the time. Fact. If 20 hamas terrorists are deterred by the death of one son, that the death was worthwhile, since it save numerous other lives. Fact.

Rejoice when UN workers are killed by a car bomb in Baghdad, as Maine's Michael, Daniel, and Emperor Misha I did on August 19?

Nobody enjoys death. Any rejoicing you observed is totally because they hope the UN understands the enemy and gets a taste of the bullshit it has inflicted on the world, thereby spurring change, ie, an end to terror. If a few emotional people cheer a few hypocrital, useless, UN deaths, what's the harm. Let the UN realize what they are dealing with. The presbyterians need to stop killing UN personnnel. I hear it is a war crime.

The answer is: no you shouldn't. You destroy those who would destroy you. You sometimes kill innocents as collateral damage. But you don't rejoice in that killing. If you do, then you are truly no better than those who rejoiced over the works of Osama bin Laden and Mohammed Atta on September 11, 2001.

Gordon, name one instance in any media outlet, any presidential or political statement, where we have rejoiced in death. One.

From Paul Johnson's A History of the Jews:

British Jewry became and remained the most stable and contented and the least threatened of the major Jewries (outside of the U.S.).,..., The Sieff dynasty turned the successful firm of Marks & Spenser into the most enduring and popular of post-war British business, and Lord Weinstock transformed GE into thelargest of all British companies. The Jews were vigorous in the publishing of books and newspapers. They produced the best of all diaspora journals, the Jewish Chronicle. In growing numbers, they adorned the benches of the House of Lords. There was a time, in the mid-1980's, when no fewer than five Jews sat in the British cabinet.

Including Nigel Lawson, who, since he headed the Exchequer, was the second most powerful person in the UK after Thatcher. (And it is his daughter, Nigella, who is the telly cooking babe lusted after by British men, who don't seem to find her Jewishness a turnoff.)

On a more personal note, a Jewish friend of mine who has spent a great deal of time in England - she's been going to London every summer since '80 - has told me that in 23 years, she has sometimes experienced anti-Americanism, but never anti-Semitism.

To all of the Brits on this thread - this American appreciates your friendship and support(the Fisks and Beebs and Conventbabes of this world not withstanding) and is saddened by the loss of your brave troops as well as of ours.

At post #250 that twerp bigel said he had read up on Thatcher and didn't think she had any Jews in her cabinet - at least not in the important posts. That makes it sound as though Thatcher fits bigel's anti-semitic label.

Firstly, as Mark Holland pointed out, Maggie was MP for Fichley - a very Jewish constituency. And has been pointed out, her main political mentor was Keith Joseph. Plus Alfred Sherman was very influential in the early days, at the Centre for Policy Studies, her "think-tank".

To summarise some names in Maggie's various Cabinets -
Nigel Lawson as her main Chancellor of the Exchequer

Leon Brittan as Home Secretary

Keith Joseph and then David Young as Industry Secretary

plus some of the other Cabinet members whom DP listed - Rifkind, Mellor, Younger.

So bigel - who "has read up on Thatcher" - is clearly wrong, spouting rubbish. Bloody stupid bigotry.

As others have stressed - in Britain people simply do not ask - or care - whether a Cabinet Minister is Jewish.
But if Brits were anti-semitic, as bigel alleges, surely that is the first question they would ask ?

#277 Bigel,

OK, so despite having more than ample representation for Jews in both Parliament and the Cabinet...we are still secretly plotting to murder Jews because erm..er..what? In case you didn't notice we were the only fucking nation on the planet who resisted the Nazis after they conquered the continent in 1940. So fuck you, fuck your paranoia and fuck your one man quest to create anti-semites by slandering my country. It won't work with me you wanker. Sadly, it may work with others. The best thing you could do to combat anti-semitism is shut your fucking mouth.

Now, for the last time. Fuck off.

Charles, is there any way we can have a personal kill file on LGF, a la newsgroups? I would appreciate it if we could add people to our own file, so we can peruse 250 odd posts and get rid of half of them from people who are morons.

It really gets frustrating to return to a thread and follw 150 friggin new posts.

Okay, I just saw a couple of the al-Muhajiroun jihadi-wannabes on the telly, spouting off about how "we are in your (the UK) midst and you should fear us" and calling Tony Blair a "terrorist leader". Also:

One speaker at the news conference in a hall in a north London film studio described the hijackers as "the 19 brave martyrs who made the ultimate sacrifice in the name of Islam".

If these two jackalopes aren't dead within a week I'll lose a lot of respect for Britain.

If these two guys made this type of speech in Arlington, VA, they'd have been dead by the end of the day.

Unbelievable.

DonnaV

Paul Johnson's summary is apposite. In normal social dealings in Britain, it would be very "infra-dig" to be anti-semitic. It is just not the done thing !

And there have been eminent Jewish politicians on the left as well as the right in Britain.

Here's a ludicrous summary by "Radio Islam" of the Jewish influence on the UK media -

[Link: www.abbc.com...]

John in London:

Well, Paul Johnson is a conservative, so he's gonna play the ones on the right, isn't he?;-)

My Anglophile Jewish friend, BTW, is the daughter of Auschwitz survivors and grew up in South Carolina, where she frequently heard that she killed Jesus, so it's not like she thinks anti-Semitism is nonexistent. Although her name is as Jewish as, say, "Miriam Goldberg," the only crap she's taken from Brits concern her nationality. And even then, it's often just teasing her for her "Scarlett O'Hara" accent. I traveled around with her in the UK and the Brits found her accent far more amusing than my nasal midwestern twang (Well, you frigging Limeys told me I had a nasal twang. Damned if I can hear it.:-)