Little Green Footballs - The Great Divide

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Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 3:15:00 pm PDT

Victor Davis Hanson looks back on the fires of 9/11: The Great Divide.

America was aroused after 9/11 in the manner that a comatose patient suddenly jerks up to find that an entire world in his slumber has become unrecognizable . It really has. Think of it: Were Saudi Arabia and Pakistan friends — or rather regimes staffed by a corrupt elite who clung to power by bribe money and pardons to killers, deflecting their citizens' frustrations at their own failed kleptocracies onto us? What in the world has become of the UN, of our childhood memories of Halloween UNESCO buckets and UNICEF Christmas cards — when Iran, Iraq, and Libya arbitrate questions of legality and human rights and a Security Council serves as a surrogate for a nonexistent French fleet and phantom Gallic divisions?

Whom — or is it what? — does NATO protect, when we woke up to learn that Germany is up, Russia in, and us increasingly out? Has the EU made the world safer, and proved helpful in the Middle East, its members careful to limit arms sales to tyrants, to discourage terrorist cliques in Palestine, and to ensure murderous states abroad do not harm the innocent? Had Oslo become temporarily "derailed," or was it the inevitable result of pretending that autocracies would not do what they exist for? Was India or France the better friend? And why were those countries where we based thousands of troops the most likely to oppose our efforts in Iraq — whether Germans, Belgians, Greeks, Saudis, or Turks? — and their newspapers to vent virulent anti-Americanism?

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Occasional Reader Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:18:17pm

America was aroused after 9/11 in the manner that a comatose patient suddenly jerks up to find that an entire world in his slumber has become unrecognizable

I like the metaphor.

I'm worried we're falling back asleep.

(BTW--I remember trick or treating for UNICEF, but not UNESCO... am I wrong?)

Kim Asham Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:18:34pm

Sad. I am personally having a rough time getting through this Sept 11. I think it is because last year the day was still full of anticipation of America on the attack. I don't know. Maybe I was still really mad last year. Sad. This article fits.

MarkD Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:19:37pm

Yet another great article. Actually, the entire slate of articles at NR.com is particularly powerful today.

MarkD

not_for_nothing Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:26:22pm

I am no thoroughly convinced that Islam is a religion in Bizarro world.

not_for_nothing Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:27:29pm

now.
preview. preview. preview.

ZBeeblebrox Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:27:44pm

How odd that we were so often told that Middle Eastern traditional hospitality made it difficult for thousands to turn over a bin Laden or Saddam Hussein who sought refuge and succor in their homes, but did not deter Mohammed Atta and his cadre from killing the very people who had so generously welcomed them in.

Bingo.

rizzo Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:27:53pm

Here's an update from the chief. Please don't read the whole thing if affirmations of one's faith upset you.

One of our sources we are working with brought his family of six up from their home in a small city called Hella south of Baghdad, for the sole purpose of having dinner with us, the two strategic debriefers. He and his family wanted to show their gratitude for all that we were doing to help him and to show their appreciation to the American soldiers who released them from the chains of their ruthless dictator.

[Link: chiefwiggles.blog-city.com...]

BH Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:28:13pm

#1 Occasional Reader:

You're right, it was trick or treat for UNICEF. I remember the comic ads in the back of Casper the Ghost comic books. ;)

Queasy Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:32:12pm

#2 I agree. This year seems worse for me. I think because last year I dreaded the sentimentalization (sp?) of 9-11, especially by TV, and was then distracted by. This year I feel angrier and sadder, partly because so many people are already "moving on." How can they?

As #4, said National Review online is excellent today. I think I printed every article. I encourage everyone to go here.

Ayanami Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:39:50pm

Also on National Review:

A few weeks earlier Congress had passed a joint resolution calling for the observance of "Armed Services Honor Day" on December 7. But President Roosevelt vetoed the measure. "I consider the commemoration ... to be singularly inappropriate," he wrote. "December 7, two years ago, is a day that is remembered in this country as one of infamy on the part of a treacherous enemy. The day itself requires no reminder, and its anniversary should rather serve to cause all the people of the nation to increase their efforts contributing to the successful prosecution of the war."

AB Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:40:04pm

I also thought about UNICEF because I actually went door to door with my UNICEF box every Oct 31 until I got a little too old for Hallowe'en.

Now I know better. Thanks UN for runing my childhood notion of charity. Who in the world would use money collected by American children in the name of saving children in order to build terrorist camps? The UN is nasty in my mind. They worse than those shools that force even the youngest children to sell magazine subscriptions to starngers and family.

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:42:27pm

I would love to see VDH take on Bill O'Reilly or at least be interviewed on Fox. The words he writes are so important for so many people to read and learn. There are so many out there that don't read either because they can't, they don't understand the language or they can't be bothered.

I fear also that America has fallen back into a slumber but I was glad to see that 9/11 was acknowledged by all the networks to some degree.

Anyone watch the interview with GWB on CBS last night? I thought, "They seem to be showing the President in a positive light, amazing." Then at the very end of the show, the interviewer (sorry, forgot his name) has to bring up the subject of Bush's approval ratings having dropped from 90% after 9/11 to around 55% now, back to its pre-9/11 level. Typical -- the program gets ended on a negative note.

Jonny Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:46:57pm

55% is still excellent for a politician.

Mike Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:47:00pm

Read. Lileks.Now.

AB Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:49:30pm

CNN also talked about the poll/ratings today.

Strange how people STILL are trying to connect Bush to Sept 11 hyjackings.

Arafat INVENTED plane hyjackings, and it's not because he's Palestinian. It's because he's from an Egypt sect that belives it can get its way by taking hostages.

The movie, The Delta Force needs to be shown on TV for often.

Wild Justice Thu, Sep 11, 2003 1:59:42pm

While at NRO, check out Cliff May's piece.

CC Señor Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:16:35pm

The US needs to recognize that the world is filled with ungrateful bastards and get over the desire to be loved.

The UN has long been a joke (and UNICEF was its trick on American kids) while NATO is rapidly becoming one. I don't know, maybe I've been a closet isolationist all along.

aaron's rantblog Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:25:07pm

VDH is much better in print than live. People aren't used to hearing his vocabulary so it sometimes is valuable to re-read a specific sentence so it can sink in. VDH is NOT a sound-bite writer.

What astounds me is that while Peggy Noonan wrote for Ronald Reagan why on earth isn't VDH writing for Dubya.

mpax Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:31:00pm

Did anyone catch ABC News this pm? Don't ask why I did, it's a long story, and it wasn't by choice.
I wasn't surprised but still was dismayed that they chose 9/11 to run a piece about conditions and violations of the US against detainees at Gunatanamo.
My reaction? Boo frikin' Hoo.

rayra[deleted] Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:33:17pm

reaganite Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:45:48pm

#20 rayra
Even on Fox the talking heads still call them "militants". Some call them terrorists, not all. Fox is better than most but still not perfect.

bulgarwheat Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:47:10pm

An appropriate article for today

[Link: www.lileks.com...]

Read, and remember

bulgarwheat Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:50:36pm

We are at war, Maui Girl

Okay, this isn't a surf contest or another day at the beach. I'm sorry if that's not convenient for you. You'll get over it. There are people who want to kill you, or at least through a tent over your head, tell you to shut up, and give them back the car keys.

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:51:59pm

#20 Rayra,

I meant that it would be a positive thing to be on O'Reilly or Fox News because they have a large audience and more far reaching than NRO.

John Ashcroft noted in his interview with Tony Snow this morning, that FOX is always broadcasting information on what the terrorists are up to all over the world. Any American interested in keeping up with the WoT can visit either LGF or FOX, or both.

I never watched the news or read the newspaper much at all before 9/11, except for the federal elections or coverage of Clinton's foibles in the Whitehouse. Today, I watch news everyday and visit LGF everyday. Information provides knowledge and knowledge is power.

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:53:13pm

#13 Johnny,

That's wasn't my point. It was the connotation - from 90% down to 55%.

Mandrake Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:53:42pm

OT, if it hasn't been posted in another thread today, Mark Steyn in the Spectator. Absolutely spot-on.

bulgarwheat Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:55:12pm

Knowledge without wisdom is...

Maui Girl...

Please report to you nearest Taliban Reeducation office. Thank you, and wear a nice tent.

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:55:50pm

#23,

You have totally misinterpreted my statement. I have zero tolerance for Islam, moderate or not. Terrorists should all die - NOW! Arafat needs to go and Israel should tell the Whitehouse to shove it and mind our own business with regards to this piece of shit aging terrorist.

Get my drift?

And I don't surf - I am a hardworking, self-employed small business owner.

bulgarwheat Thu, Sep 11, 2003 2:57:48pm

Maui Girl, please excuse me. Sorry

Sorry. If I misunderstood and lashed out, I apologize. Sorry.

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 3:00:31pm

Dear Bulgarwheat,

Wisdom comes with age and experience. However, I do not need to be burqua'd and locked up to imagine how awful it must be. I do not take my freedom for granted and will if need be, fight to the death for it - for myself and my family!

Don't insult my intelligence. You don't know me from Adam

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 3:02:13pm

Dear Bulgarwheat,

Apology accepted. Today is a day for remembrance and brotherhood (sisterhood). Please accept my hug (virtual).

paul Thu, Sep 11, 2003 3:02:49pm

Maui Girl--

O'reilly is a bit too something, IMO, to have deep guests. Check out Special Edition with Brit Hume. He's had Victor Hanson, Michael Ledeen, and others.

They don't call them militants, either. The roundtable is particularly good. In fact, Brit is the one I send email to, including LGF links. Have gotten a few responses from him, too. How cool is that.

bulgarwheat Thu, Sep 11, 2003 3:14:47pm

To all

I'm just pissed today. The fact that it takes nine months for gestation, a lifetime to raise a child, that child becomes a man/woman, and life can be taken. It is obscene and upsets me quite a lot. There are widows, orphans, all over the landscape. We are at war. It is going to get worse before it gets better, ...because of some insane, misguided fools who are attacking that which they know they can't overcome. The islamists are misguided, they preach hate, it will be their own undoing. I read the end of the book, we win, they lose... Case settled.

Peace!

Maui Girl Thu, Sep 11, 2003 3:35:13pm

I forgot about Brit. I really enjoy the roundtable sessions and they don't pussyfoot around the truth!

Camel Prophet Thu, Sep 11, 2003 3:56:53pm

V Hanson, for all his learning, is just another continuity-junkie. For those of us who held anti-islam views prior to ISLAMIC-GENOCIDE911, the event was initially perceived as a sign of discontinuity between the redundant accomodation/conciliation mode of relations between the West and muslims. Continuity-junkies created conditions where the terrorists were accepted as marginals, abhorrent to most muslims. Hence, even military intervention took the form of costly limited war, which has set up American and British troops as jihad targets. Would you want to live like the soldiers in this report?:

[Link: www.balochistanpost.com...]

The best soldiers in Western Civilization are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan, because continuity-addiction inhibits perception of the inhabitants of the islamofascist sectors of these territorial sewers as: rogue humans. Discontinuity-realists know the real counter-terror solution: impose starvation sieges on these animals, withholding food in exchange for bagged jihadis; order Pakistan, Egypt and the Saud entity to execute every known or suspect jihadi, including every member of Jamaat-i-Islami; shoot on sight the entire executive of CAIR, AMC, ICNA, ISNA, and execute any member who contributed to a jihad charity; cut the head off the islamic cobra, by hitting Mecca, Medina, Peshawar, and Qom, with five maximum-yield, hydrogen bombs each; turn into rubble any mosque or islamic seminary (including al-Azhar) where genocide khutbah has issued, and do so during Friday prostrations; unleash India, China, Russia, (Free) France, Sergia, Nigeria, Phillipines, Thailand, against their internal muslim vermin; impose secular constitutions on all current islamic entities, and force citizens to receive and understand anti-islamic literature; breakup Iran, Iraq, the Saud entity, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria; expel all Arabs from Israel proper and the West Bank and Gaza; place all the Middle East oilfields under the permanent sovereignty of a revamped NATO, and deny any wealth sharing with muslims.

Either do all of the above, or hear VDH weap more cry-me-a-river tears, next year. Continuity my ass!

paul Thu, Sep 11, 2003 4:12:12pm

Camel Prophet-
Maybe VDH isn't hardcore enough. But...maybe start that to-do list after the elections next November? Otherwise, it'll be Pres Dean--ptueey--who thinks we need to not take sides in that Middle East peace thingy dingy.

Ariel Thu, Sep 11, 2003 4:50:12pm

Best. VDH. Ever.

And the Mark Steyn piece is great too.

Bert Thu, Sep 11, 2003 8:37:09pm

VDH is truely one of the great writers and thinkers of our era. We are lucky to have him. Of the many thoughts he presents to us the one I find most indelible is that we must stand up to evil and never, never back down no matter what the cost.

Camel Prophet Thu, Sep 11, 2003 9:08:43pm

Bert #38:

But who in leadership in the West is saying that islam - Mohammed's instrument for revenge against his Quereshi' tribal enemies - is inherently "evil?" In that vacuum, Wahabism, Ikhwanism and Jamaat-Tablighism, are flourishing. Refusal to recognize every muslim as either an actual or potential jihad financier or conscript, is a fatal error. Hanson can't do that because he is in discontinuity denial, like almost everyone else. The future of muslims can be summed upped in two words: MEGA-DEATH.