never forget.

Thanks. We need to be reminded what the war's about.

No hesitation to post them this year Charles?
GOOD FOR YOU !!!

That people anywhere could laugh at or celebrate this speaks volumes about their religon and their character.

Pictures cannot capture terror. A life of TV is the problem.

I weep for those poor people who died .

I curse those who did this with every curse imaginable.

Stay the course, George. And recommend that Israel adopt similar policies.

If we can target Saddam, Osama, etc...there's no reason for Arafat to make it through the night.

A war on terror should not discriminate.

Does anybody know if there is a dvd or anything available that contains all the footage of the event, but without a bunch of dialogue, interviews, apologies or insinuations? I want a reminder of this so it's always fresh in my mind. But I don't want somebody else to interpret it for me. I just want the images and sounds.

We musn't forget.

We must ignore the moral relativists.

We must support Israel as it fights the same enemy that we fight.

Brought to you by the Religion of Peace (and Saudi Arabia.)

Every time I see these pictures it's like someone punching me in the stomach. The day that feeling fades it means I've died. These pictures will always haunt me.

:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

All I could think was "Oh G-d".

Thanks for posting these Charles.

Never forget.

Forgive - when they beg for it.

Please remember Alysia Basmajian. She was 23, married, and the mother of a 2-year old. She graduated from my alma mater.

And Juliana McCourt. She was murdered with her mommy on Flight 175.

We Shall Prevail

'We Shall Prevail'
Victory is the debt we owe to those who died two years ago.

BY THEODORE B. OLSON
Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:29 a.m. EDT

We gather today to remember and pay tribute with our hearts and our tears to the loved ones, friends, colleagues and fellow Americans who were savagely murdered on this date two years ago.

We are still stunned and bewildered by the depraved fanaticism that planned and executed the slaughter that day of thousands of helpless, unsuspecting innocent lives, and the infliction of excruciatingly painful and unhealable damage on thousands more. The audacity of the attack, the breathtaking scope of the damage inflicted, and the depth and intensity of the inhuman rage that propelled the attackers is simply incomprehensible to us. Each of us that day was in some way a victim of a level and quality of violence that most of us had never even imagined in our lives. And we each suffer today in different ways from those September 11 moments when the ground beneath us trembled and our lives forever changed.

On that day we Americans were forced to recognize that we are inseparably bonded to others in Israel, India, Africa, Indonesia and other countries who have reaped the same bitter harvest of anguish, emptiness and grief sowed by twisted minds that know no emotion but hate, no motive but malevolence, and no goal but destruction. Nearly every day now, we read stories and see photographs of the devastation and cruelty inflicted by terrorists who attack restaurants, hospitals, office buildings, weddings and school buses. Mindless, senseless, cruelty and hate, and irreparable pain and loss.

Remembering and honoring the victims of September 11 is therefore not remotely sufficient. We must engrave their faces and tragically shortened histories on our hearts and in our souls. We must commit ourselves to the only goal that is worthy of their memories: to eradicate the disease that killed them, wherever it is and however long is takes. Their suffering and deaths must fuel our dedication to stamp out this cancer, and, in doing so, save those we love, and those who come after us, from future September elevens and the pain, loneliness and helplessness we experienced on that day two years ago and have lived with every day since then.

We can never forget, but we can never even rest until that debt is paid, and September 11 can be remembered not as a beginning of a slide into chaos, but as the beginning of the end of blind, ruthless, random brutality, and the tears of orphaned children, the screams of hideously burned bodies, and the numbing grief that terrorism delivers.
We cannot give up until that goal is attained, whether it comes in our lifetime or not. If we do not persevere, we will be haunted for eternity by the memories of those who were taken from us on September 11. We cannot forget them or let them down.

We do not have to be a president, soldier, attorney general, prosecutor or intelligence agent to wage this battle and win this war. Every one of us, in little ways, in thoughts and words and spirit, can pull an oar, however small or seemingly slight. Each of us can make a difference. But it will take all of us, in our own individual lives, to lead or somehow, in some way, support the achievement of this goal. If we do not, we will pay a tragic price in our neighborhoods, our schools, and our homes. None of us, no matter where we live, no matter how carefully we live our lives, is immune from terrorism. We will either root it out and extinguish it wherever it may hide, or it will find us and strip us of our safety, happiness and everything we cherish.

But we can succeed if we have the strength, resolution and the willingness to persevere.

In the words of William Faulkner, "Man will not merely endure: he will prevail. He is immortal, not because he alone among creatures has an inexhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, a spirit capable of compassion and sacrifice and endurance."

We shall decline to accept terrorism in our lives or in the lives of our brothers and sisters in other countries on other continents. We shall fight this terrible, contagious, borderless, boundless disease.

And we shall prevail.

Mr. Olson is solicitor general of the United States. His wife, Barbara, was among the murdered passengers of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon two years ago today. He delivered these remarks this morning at the U.S. Department of Justice.

War? Didn't the governor of the largest state in the Union allow illegal immigrants the right to get driver's licenses. What am I missing here?

Ariel (#13):

Forgive - when they beg for it.

Forgive when they are all dead.

LGF is a bastion of sanity.

Without LGF, we would be lonelier in our struggle against the forces of evil.

LGF is a force of good.

We all pay homage to those sacrificed in our war.

#13 Ariel:

Forgive - when they beg for it.

Never. Maybe posthumously. No, not even then.

Happy4LA: The most dangerous front in this war is the home front, because there are so many here dedicated to our defeat.

Yes, I'm talking about Gray Davis and his like.

Every time I see these photos I think it could be my cousin who worked in WTC1 on the 102nd floor.

Don't miss Michele Catalano's overpowering Voices project.

And if you're still able to see after that, see also this.

#21

I hope your cousin is with us and safe.

PDM (#3)

:-) I had the same thought.

Thank you, Charles, for everything. I can't find words today.

I know this is going to sound really objectionable to some, but I really wish I could see more of these pictures--I want to witness the full horror of that day, not the sanitized approved-for-me-by-the-network-honchos-version shown on TV starting 9-12. I understand them not re-playing footage in which people might be recognizable, but there's so much more they're not showing us and never will, because it might "incite" people, or "we don't really have to see it".

I want to see it, or have access to all of it, even the gory stuff, so that if I ever find myself wavering in my support for stamping out the cancer of islamofascism, I can just click on a link, or throw a dvd in and be brought back to the horror and rage of that day. Like when a camera focused in on the black fissure of one of the towers and I could almost feel the heat of the flames, and people were hanging out of the windows above and one tumbled out. Or when I saw that poor, doomed woman crawl out of a smoking window and desperately cling to the outside of the building and look skyward. She will always be in my heart.

As the years pass and children learn about this abomination, they will not be able to fully grasp the horror and cruelty of this day. "Yeah, that's terrible, some buildings came down and people were killed." Their version will be watered down, as will people's memories. This should not happen.

thank you again and always charles.
even though those images are permanetly burned into peoples minds they get lost in the day to day happenings of peoples lives as well as the void that is politics.
they still bring goose bumps to this hardened soul. g-d damn i get so pissed off at those who choose to ignore the events of that day. some people need a virtual slap across the face.

From Arab News:

"The fear among American friends was that the anti-terror campaign would inflict even greater casualties than the outrage which caused Washington to
launch it."

"slaughter of UN officials sent to help the country recover are also legitimate goals for killers."

"As long as America supports brutal Zionist oppression with one hand, it will be pumping air into the lungs of terrorism even while with the other
Washington is trying to strangle it."

Israel is the top terrorist.Protect youth from extremism. Saudi aviation.Islam and terrorism. 11 September 2003

NEVER forget!

CAN'T forgive. Even if I wanted to.

Now I am suspicious of every Arab-type person I see anymore.

Islam. The "religion" of ignorance.

I hate to be dramatic but it's a fight to the finish.

NEVER forget!

CAN'T forgive. Even if I wanted to.

Now I am suspicious of every Arab-type person I see anymore.

Islam. The "religion" of ignorance.

I hate to be dramatic but it's a fight to the finish.

#25  Tasty Beverage

"Yeah, that's terrible, some buildings came down and people were killed." Their version will be watered down, as will people's memories. This should not happen.

Sadly it's already happened. The left-wing view is it was an innocent "tragedy" like an earthquake. That is definitely what will be instructed to schoolchildren in years to come.

VDH reminds us eloquently:

Three thousand Americans did not die in a fire, earthquake, or flood. No, they were slain by the deliberate hand of formidable enemies — raising issues of culpability, preventability, and retribution.

"Never forget" ought to be amended to:
"Never forget who did this to us."

Brady Howell was a young intern from Sugar City, Idaho (population about 200, maybe) who died at the Pentagon. I'm certain that G-d made sure he found his way home.

Sorry about the double post.

However, I don't think preview is my friend.

I think when I hit preview it posts.

Then when I hit post it posts again.

Is that possible? I KNOW I didn't hit post twice. This time. I mean last time...in my previous post. And just to be double duty sure, I am living dangerously and not previewing.

#23 AG

No, my cousin died that day.
I think of him almost every day now, though I saw him only once every couple of years.
I am angrier today than ever before. I heard his name read and shuddered.
LGF has been a great source of knowledge and comfort in knowing how many like minded people are out there.

God Bless your cousin.

What was his name?

It felt very strange today walking around town (Philadelphia) seeing people laughing and smiling and carrying on their business.

Part of me says that the best revenge (besides killing the Islamofascists) is to live well.

But another part of me wanted to see long, sad faces like mine.

Jay Nordlinger wrote something similar the other day about Israeli schoolkids laughing and joking at Auschwitz, and actually came down on the side that it was a good thing.

But I'm struggling with it.

When I lived in Israel, to hear the sirens wail on Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day), and see every single car come to a grinding halt, and see the occupants step out and bow their heads, that felt right. To see everyone single shopkeeper, every single pedestrian, every single person in sight stop, that felt right.

For two minutes the whole country stops and a silent scream goes out across the land.

And I wanted to see and feel that today with 9/11. But the kids and the moms and everyone else just went about their business ... and I'm not sure what I think about it.

I'm not even going to forgive posthumously. I haven't forgiven the damned Nazis just because most of them are dead.

The other night, PBS ran a British show interviewing two groups of people who had survived the WTC attacks. I don't know why this fact always astounds me, but it does - the people in the WTC, in the center of that hell, were the only people in the world who had no idea what was going on.

One woman said that when she reached the ground floor, she came out of the building and, directly in front of her, two dead bodies, a man and a woman, were on the sidewalk clasped in an embrace. A steel spike empaled both of them. The woman fainted.

I haven't been able to get that image out of my mind.

Thank you but I'm not sure I want to say his name.
He worked at Cantor Fitzgerald. He was mentaly disabled. He delivered the office mail. A sweet guy. Liked Led Zeppelin's Kashmir and the Mets - which I don't hold against him.

Today has been really hard for me. I couldn't sleep at all last night. I was afraid another attack would happen. So I was up in the morning when the news programs started showing the memorials at Ground Zero.

I'll be honest - today's memorials leave me unsatisfied. All this emphasis on low-key action, purely honoring the victims of the attacks, is empty for me. I thought about it more, and I think what is missing here, indeed what should be the greatest emphasis but what is not, is ANGER.

I think it's important to be angry on September 11th. I think that's why so many people want to have the images of the burning buildings replayed on TV. We are angry over the senseless murder that happened, over the loss of these beautiful buildings that were symbols of our industry and power. We're angry at the false sense of complacency we all had on September 10th, in an idiotic belief that it couldn't happen here. We're angry over the loss of innocence, that it shouldn't happen to me or my friends, or children, this way.

These low-key celebrations seem to be empty for me because by emphasizing victimization and the loss and sorrow of it all, there seems to be no focus on how to deal with the tragedy of it all, to direct our energies towards the pursuit of the terrorists and all who sympathze with them, and to rebuild those buildings taller and with greater glory than before. No, today it's all low-key emphasis on sadness.

Well, I'm angry, and I will continue to be angry. Because there is something worth defending here and it's worth more than the mere expression of a sad platutude. I think it's insanity that the anniversaries of this day have been an emhasis on muted patriotism and victimization.

Why can't we remember the victims of this, and also the heroes? The people on Flight 93, they were heroes to me, not victims, because they gave their lives for that of other Americans, to defend their country against Islamic terrorism. Why can't we focus on their actions, as a response to the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, instead of lumping them together as victims. They were at the wrong place, at the wrong time - but they're not victims, they're goddamn heroes.

I dunno. If this day were to become a holiday and all it meant was a sad reflection on how we lost the people, the buildings, and our innocence, I think it'd be better off if no holiday were made. I want this day to be a day of extreme patriotism, of righteous anger in the defense of this country. Do all our national holidays have to be celebrations? Can't we have one where we're rightly pissed off?

Mark Steyn's column is up in the Spectator. It's worth a read [Link: www.spectator.co.uk...]

And on this day of days Le Monde chooses to run this editorial cartoon.

(Found via AndrewSullivan.com)

911digitalarchive.org...]>

Flash movie for thoses who hadnt seen it.

OT

The anti-Americanism in Germany sounds to be getting even more serious -

[Link: www.spectator.co.uk...]

And this week's Economist is running a big survey on Islam -

[Link: www.economist.com...]

[Link: www.economist.com...]

Mark Steyn on top form in the Spectoator this week - "We're winning this war"

[Link: www.spectator.co.uk...]

Wow. Well it isn't like we didn't know where Le Monde's, and France's, heart was. With the Enemy.
Allah is great today. He quotes that Crispin Crispian poem interspersed with a touching photoessay.

From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother;
be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

OT:

America Online poll:

Do you feel you've lost freedoms since 9/11?

Yes: 44% 131,378

No: 50% 150,431

Not sure: 4% 14, 376

Total: 296,185

-------------------------

I know this poll isn't scientific, but 44% think they've lost freedoms since 9/11? What are they smoking?

F$#@k the Islamonazis. May they all be cursed with a deadly dose of Ebola!

We need to see, we need to remember, we can never forget.

Sydney C wrote:

These low-key celebrations seem to be empty for me because by emphasizing victimization and the loss and sorrow of it all, there seems to be no focus on how to deal with the tragedy of it all, to direct our energies towards the pursuit of the terrorists and all who sympathze with them, and to rebuild those buildings taller and with greater glory than before. No, today it's all low-key emphasis on sadness.

I agree. But remember, the media were the same way last year. They want to Oprah-fy 9/11 because angry Americans frighten them. Angry Americans might get angry at the RoP (and we can't have that now, can we)? Angry Americans might get angry at those on the left who say they had it coming. Angry Americans might vote Republican. Angry Americans might want to tell the UN and the EU to shove it. Angry Americans might start dropping bombs somewhere again.

Angry Americans frighten the media much more than angry Muslims do.

#41 Goldenwebb
and the french wonder why americans are not traveling to that most vile of places... cheese eating surrender monkeys. g-d bless grounds keeper wille.
it is hard night to hate the french even though i have been there several times and know that they are basically decent people, misguided socialists, but decent. la monde is a rag not worthy of the bottom of the birdcage.

Off Topic: I might be the first to know this so hold onto your socks. Get this...I think this is true...John Kerry was in Vietnam. Isn't that amazing?

Bette #32,

I've had that happen before too depending on which ISP I'm working from. I don't know why it happens, but it does.

To everyone,

I should have clarified what I meant about forgiving: I'll never forgive those who did it. But I think we should forgive the Saudis et al once we've ground them beneath our heels - as we did the Germans in post-WW II. I don't think the Morgenthau Plan was the right way to go and I'm glad we didn't go that way.

F**k the widows of 911 appearing on Chris Mathews.

Donna, the media fears Angry Americans because WE ARE much more dangerous to them than the TERRORISTS are. The media has the US military, however much the media reviles our troops, to protect them from Islamic terrorists. What protects the media and their biases from Americans who are too angry to believe the Big Lie?

James:

I know this poll isn't scientific, but 44% think they've lost freedoms since 9/11? What are they smoking?

Sounds like CAIR's entire membership and every Nation reader in the country is participating in that poll.

Or maybe 80 year old Swedish grandmas whose wheelchairs were searched at the airport while CAIR's entire membership sailed past.

John in London, from this link you posted

[Link: www.economist.com...]

Islam and Christendom have clashed for centuries. But if there is something in the essence of Islam that predisposes its adherents to violent conflict with the West, it is hard to say what it might be.

the author begins well, and then this!

slipping into denial...

#39 Sydney Carton

That's why I only tuned in to Fox for the coverage on the 9-11 tribute today. I was in no mood for anything less. They had the guts and the anger to show much of the disturbing footage, just as Charles has in posting these pictures.

And after having heard that the coverage would be "low key," it was tragic, enraging and somehow fitting to see them show the footage all over again. Even of people escaping the fire by jumping.

It was good to choke back tears and feel rage at the same time. There will be no forgetting.

#51 addison

Off Topic: I might be the first to know this so hold onto your socks. Get this...I think this is true...John Kerry was in Vietnam. Isn't that amazing?

So was Al Gore (briefly), but at least Kerry didn't need a body guard. Now if only he would shut up about it.

Never forget, never ever forgive...Can we please play cowboys and muslums NOW?

I hope that everyone from lgf will read the story of Rick Rescorla, a very brave man and a true hero. Also, please sign the the petition to award him the medal of honor.
[Link: www.mudvillegazette.com...]

Thank you charles for posting the photos. We need to see them and remember.

Carolyn Beug, I miss you so much. We will get these bastards, for you, and all the other innocents who were murdered two years ago.

Hey, ploome, I think I know what's wrong with the author was missing in this quote:

Islam and Christendom have clashed for centuries. But if there is something in the essence of Islam that predisposes its adherents to violent conflict with the West, it is hard to say what it might be.

He has a speech impediment! It's impossible for him to say "Mohammed", or "Koran", or "sharia".

#46 Evariste

Allah was good today and the poem actually answered a riddle for me...

last year members (FDNY) of my family produced their own memorial shirts for the 1st "anniversary" and they contained the line

"...For he that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother..."

wasn't aware of the poem and didn't think that one of my firefighter relatives could be that literate

now I know the larger context of the quote and it makes the shirt all that more meaningful...thanks to Allah (and only the one that has a blog)

I and my family will never forget and as far as forgiveness goes... the irish have been known to hold grudges for centuries

The fuller legacy of 9/11 is awaiting us in the future. To my mind, a good analogy of 911 is with the 1923 Munich Beer Hall Putsch. At that time a goodly portion of "intelligent" observers were awakened to a threat that had mostly operated under the radar screens. After the Putsch attempt, clear headed thinkers were alerted to the danger but many of them (ie Churchill) were literally perceived as being in the wilderness.But most of the Western world was in appeasement mode. The wolf had shown his teeth but the sheep were content to ignore the obvious in the hope that it would go away. We all know how that story turned out.
The Jewish populations of Europe of that time were especially drawn to this mindset. Centuries of oppresion and pogroms led to a pattern of hunkering down and waiting out the dark storm. Today, the Jews of Israel proclaim "Never again". Perhaps, there will come a series of events wherein the "civilized" portion of humanity will also proclain "Never again". But I'm afraid that much of the world today is under the influence of hatred and evil. And even the better part of humanity is addicted to hopeless fantasies and illusions. I'm afraid that the wolf is not being taken seriously again. It will take the murder of tens of millions to awaken the masses.

allah in the house is - well, powerful.

Yeah, he's usually funny. Today he's not.

Never forget what.
Never forget who.
God forgives.
I don't.

#55 DonnaV

Or maybe 80 year old Swedish grandmas whose wheelchairs were searched at the airport while CAIR's entire membership sailed past.

The first time I got on a plane after 9-11 was the following January, going to Vegas. At the gate they had the new "secondary" security or whatever it's called set up at a table and they had everybody line up before we could board, and they selected a few people to search by walking up and down the line looking at everyone.

They pulled out a man who looked to be in his 60s, white man, silver hair, very expensive suit, briefcase. They made him take off his shoes and jacket, open the briefcase, everything.

And they let the three guys in front of me, who were clearly from India or Pakistan, "sail past" with nary a word.

(btw--I feel really bad for Hindus who get searched)

Those three might have been citizens, but to hear their accents they sure as hell weren't born here. But security picked the dangerous, threatening grandpa, because you never know when those affluent grandpas are going to go on a rampage and hijack a plane. Comforting, eh?

I have sad news to report--people are forgetting and not so interested....

Many of my students were apathetic at best and some didn't even know all of what happened on September 11th. One of my students (from Pakistan originally) told the class that Israel blew up the twin towers. When I corrected him, a few students argued with me and said I was wrong (they were mostly Pakistani students).

And the NYC schools didn't do much to further the remembrance. Aside from a moment of silence, not much was said or done (except in my class...and I think that kind of defied what the principal and the chancellor wanted).

I am so depressed about this.....

#65--
There is an old country song (or maybe not so old??) called "God may forgive you but I won't"

The only lyrics I remember are--
"God may forgive you but I won't;
Jesus may love you, but I don't...."

Wise words to live by....

#61 Robert Crawford

The thing that's not missing from the author @ The Economist is a blatant bias. Had to read it for an econ class years ago, but no more. They are deceptively pro-Arab, anti-Bush.

Can't trust them anymore than the BBC, unless it's strictly economic stuff.

very very graphic reminder!
...and so should be the memorial to this tragic event, which is now in review; the LMDC is now presiding over 5200 submissions for an ideas and design competetion...
may they have the foresight not to diminish the magnitude of this tragic part of our history.

charles, thanx for these images

per #67

so Israel did it according to Pakistani students?...just one more blood libel to add to all the rest...

We should bear in mind that these thugs actually wanted to take out 50000 or even more... If things had gone really well for them, the towers would have been packed with people and - my feeling is this was there hope - the towers would have collapsed on their surrounding buildings leading to a domino effect...

In short, their efforts didn't pay off as much as they would have liked them to.

#67 CHristine J et al.

very off topic, but not all college students are LLL. it was organised in one week, by the students only, and 80,000 people participated and over $150,000 was raised for the 9-11 fund... click here.

#67 Christine,

Well, I think you should challenge those misled youths to come up with rock solid proof that Israel had anything to do with it. They won't be able to.

Then produce the pix of the actual hijackers and their backgrounds and anything that depicts OBL claiming victory re: 9/11.

Make them dispute what is right before their eyes.

This type of ignorance amongst our children is dangerous for the future of our country.

Brought to you by Islam, the Religion of Peace.

Barf. I needed to see that. Again. No I didn't. Yes I did.

God bless you Charles. The truth will out. patience, I tell myself.

Thanks, Charles for the photos. I remember the day very well; in fact, I shall never forget. But the photos keep us angry and willing to see this war through to the end. There are so many who want to put this behind us, but when we do that we lose the will to fight.

I, too, wish that there was a good DVD that would help us keep the memories fresh...not out of some ghoulish voyeurism but rather to help me remember what the war on terror is all about. And then when my grandchildren are old enough, I want them to see what the terrorists did to us so they will understand why we must continue to be vigilant.

#60

Someone else who died in the attack, that we should all know about, is the man who knew, John O'Neill:

The man who knew

It's an amazing story about a career FBI man, who devoted his final years in the organization, to trying to alert us all, to the dangers of Al Qaeda.

He retired from the FBI, after 31 years, for reasons that were not really all that nice, and took a job as the head of security at the WTC in August of 2001.

He died in the WTC attacks of 9/11.

Take Care,

I listened briefly to Michael Krazny on NPR today. He had people calling in to express "how 9-11 affected them." After about a minute, I really wanted to put my fist through the radio.

Only one person out of the 6 or so I heard was actually personally moved - and he was a firefighter. None of them were angry. Most of them said LLL-style things about "root causes," etc. One guy with an accent was mostly complaining how he lost money in his business because people were afraid to invest in America afterwards (!).

But the absolutely worst one was a guy who said "I don't see what all the fuss is about, really. Planes crash all the time, and if these 4 planes had just crashed normally, would anyone still care about it? This was criminal activity, but you don't pursue criminals by launching a war..."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhh.

BH, Tasty Beverage, and Kathyn-the Dept of Labor is giving away a DVD with footage and interviews from Ground Zero. It's not exactly what you asked for but probably worth a view anyway. Get yours here.

#62 former idiotarian

now I know the larger context of the quote and it makes the shirt all that more meaningful...thanks to Allah (and only the one that has a blog)

The "poem" is from Shakespeare's Henry V. It's especially apt if you consider Henry's upcoming battle at Agincourt as analogous to 9/11 being the prelude to the WOT. Henry won and so will we! And you can chalk it up to leadership!!

Before I immigrated to the US, my friends asked me what I would do if the US went to war or there was a nuclear attack or whatever, would I come back to Canada. I wasn't sure.

I've been here ten years now. My love for this country is inexplicable, my patriotism immense. The star-spangled banner brings tears to my eyes.

On 9/11, watching the horrors happen on TV, I was reminded of that question. My answer: I will never leave and will fight tooth and nail to defend this country. It's the best place on planet earth!

Up here in West Froggistan (Canada) the radio talk shows were going on about the 9-11 memorials.

There was not ONE mention of who did this outrage to us. Not one.

We would not want to "offend Muslims".

The truth is an offence, but not a sin. (Bob Marley)

God Bless America and God Bless George Bush.

I apologize for this but please don't use the word Allah in a positive light. There is nothing positive about Islam's perception of God.

Maui Girl, it's good to have you here! Canada's loss.

#82 Maui Girl

It's the best place on planet earth!

Yes it is. I've spent over half my life defending it, wish they would let me stay longer.

Halflife,

But the absolutely worst one was a guy who said "I don't see what all the fuss is about, really. Planes crash all the time, and if these 4 planes had just crashed normally, would anyone still care about it? This was criminal activity, but you don't pursue criminals by launching a war..."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhh.

Had I heard that, I might have cried. Cried that a person can be that stupid, heartless, and removed from society and still be alive.

87:

Right. And according to Damien Penny, a Canadian "expert" on international conflict named Gwynne Dyer (Pork Eating Whiskey Drinker will know him) apparently said something along the lines of 'the number who died on 9/11 was less than the number who die in traffic accidents -- so what's the big deal?'

This, I remind you, from a well-respected "expert."

Forgiveness for the perpetrators of 9-11 is for the compassionate or the uncertain. I am neither.

We make war that we may live in peace.
- Aristotle

Forgivness is gods job, my job is to arrange the meeting.
Norman H Schwarzhoph (paraphrase).

I understand who did this and who was behind them.

I was there for all of it and these photographs do the experience justice. I was to meet with Mayor Giuliani the morning of the attack, originally on the 104th Fl. of the South Tower, the headquarters of the NYC Port Authority, at the last minute the meeting was moved to the public hearing chamber of the City Hall at 9:00, the only reason why I am typing this. I was riding down Broadway at Houston at 8:45 when the first plane flew overhead to my right, apparently aligned with 6th Ave. I used to be a pilot and my first thoughts were that he was ridiculously low, my second thought was that he was speeding, the below 10,000 ft. speed limit for a turbo-fan plane in the US airspace is 250 kts, about 300 mph, this guy was doing 450, then the plane backfired, both engines, shithead I thought, can’t manage your manifold pressure. Then the Boom, Kaboom! it shifted my clothes even inside the cab. In the beautiful blue sky were thousands of pieces of paper, I thought someone had dropped political leaflets, it was our primary election that day. I directed the cab to proceed directly to the WTC and I got out to see the North Tower on fire with the perfect silhouette of an aircraft having penetrated its side. There was no one there except me and a bunch of bicycle messengers; one jumper, two jumpers, two at once, people were jumping to their death and smashing into pulp on the plaza below where I was. They fluttered in the air like new borns in a bassinette, this is the footage didn't make it onto the tube, one guy, apparently familiar with the air leaned over and went straight down Clark Kent style and piston shot the plaza at a hundred knots. The crowd grunted its approval, no one messed with you fella, not one time. I grew weary of the sight, confused and angry at the same time, my attention turned to the South Tower glistening in the beautiful Fall day, and then an explosion, an expanding explosion, shit falling down on us. I doubt anyone on the crowd of messengers knew for hours that it was another plane, I didn’t. I didn’t get a scratch but another, apparently a laborer had a third of his head removed, he was trying to run, but there was no sense in it, he was done. I moved backwards to city hall and watched the South Tower fall onto Wall St. and the rescue workers who had assembled there, and then a I ran with The Cloud in pursuit, when the second tower fell I didn’t even turn around, I had enough.

89 gymnast wrote:

Forgiveness for the perpetrators of 9-11 is for the compassionate or the uncertain. I am neither.

I'll agree with you about the "uncertain" part of it, but not the "compassionate." That NPR listener quoted by halflife who said "Planes crash all the time, what's the big deal?" is not compassionate. That Canuck asshat Dyer (an LLL of the first order) is not compassionate, although he undoubtably thinks he is. The people who tell us that 9/11 was our fault are not compassionate. They spit on the dead of 9/11.

The writer Thomas Sowell once said (I'm paraphrasing here) that the Left's indulgence of their pet groups (which includes Third World Muslims) is unlimited and so is their ferocity toward anybody else. The 9/11 victims just weren't the right (or left) kind of victims.

If a US military plane mistakenly crashed into a Baghdad tower and killed 3000 people, I'm sure that NPR listener wouldn't be saying "What's the big deal?"

#91 - Thank you for sharing your story. I don't know what else to say

Forgive - when they beg for it.

NEVER forgive.
NEVER forget.

If the bastards want forgiveness, let them beg Allah for it when they get to HELL!

Donna, that kind of disagreement is what makes this country great!

Right Brain (#91)

I don't know what to say. I feel like I should say something, I just don't know what.

May G-d continue to watch over you.

Thank you for posting the pictures. I don't ever want to forget. That is why I love the "towers of light" memorial -- currently shooting two shafts of light into Manhattan airspace, visible from over here in Brooklyn. I wish it were a permanent of the Manhattan skyline. You cannot see it without remembering why it is there. Long live our rage.

I just watched HBO's In Memoriam again. At a funeral Mayor Guliani, gob bless him, said "Never forget. We are right and they are wrong."

May the victims families find a greater peace with each passing day.

May the memories of our fallen brothers and sisters endure for all time.

May the towers of New York rise to once again touch the edge of heaven.

May the honor and courage of the Noble Free of the United States of America carry us through this war to final victory.

Thanks to everyone for their soothing comments, as this is a special day, I will link the email I sent to friends after having gone back in as a rescue worker. Every time I see these guys scooping up remains in Tel Aviv or others, I feel that I know this activity, I have done this.

[Link: archive.salon.com...]

#99 Right Brain:
Wow.

No words.

Hugs.

#80 evariste

Thanks, I saw you post a link to the Dept. of Labor dvd on a thread yesterday and I immediately ordered it. They said it will come in about 6 weeks.

#62

The "poem" is from Shakespeare's Henry V. It's especially apt if you consider Henry's upcoming battle at Agincourt as analogous to 9/11 being the prelude to the WOT. Henry won and so will we! And you can chalk it up to leadership!!

And to the fact that Henry's opponents were French, n'est pas?

cheshirecat

This passage is King Rehoboam (son of King Solomon) talking, but it might as well be about Bush 41 and Bush 43.

And now whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke: my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

(1 Kings, chapter 12)

Scorpions

#7 Pablo "Stay the course, George. And recommend that Israel adopt similar policies.

If we can target Saddam, Osama, etc...there's no reason for Arafat to make it through the night."

State is staying the course, the course of appeasement.

Powell is already at it demanding Israeli concessions.

I hope Israel ignores Powell, he is a desperate cowardly appeaser of the worst kind. I hope they ignore Bush too. Bush retreated once to the UN, what's he going to do now, show further weakness by not supporting Israel in the fight against the War on Terror. If he does that, we are dead here because the Jihadis will know that Bush is a paper tiger and his Democrat replacements are already supporters of Jihad in America.

I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say there's some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground?
We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start preaching
Let me ask you this my friend

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it every day
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And we vowed to get the ones behind Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember
Just what they're fighting for

CHORUS 2
Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Yes, some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
All the loved ones that we lost
And those left to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?

C 2003 EMI April Music Inc./Pittsburg Landing Songs (ASCAP)
[Link: www.countrygoldusa.com...]

Have You Forgotten -- Darryl Worley

Right Brain: I am very glad you are alive and posting here on LGF.

Speaking of NPR, I caught the NPR news update at 10pm last night, on the eve of Sept. 11. I know, I should not EVER listen to them, not for one second. But I'd been listening to Karl Haas's syndicated program Adventures in Good Music -- I adore Karl Haas, he cheers me up so much -- and afterwards the radio voice says, "And now, NPR news from Washington...", and so I listen -- well, you know why I listen? It's the same reason I compulsively glance at the headlines in the newspaper boxes in the morning and compulsively check CNN and Fox a hundred times a day during work, just to make sure New York is still there. I don't run outside everytime I hear a low plane and follow it with my eyes to the horizon, anymore, like I did for the first year. But even now after two years, I still need reassurance at least two dozen times a day that New York is still there.

SO ANYWAY, I listened, and they said something about Iraq and the budget request to Congress for the reconstruction, and then casually, oh so casually, in their pert little NPR announcer voices, they made some reference to President Bush and "his war".

"His" war.

I almost didn't catch it. I almost wasn't sure I heard it. But you folks know NPR, so you know, they said it alright. "His war". It's just so cheap, they way the talk. So cheap, so easy, so self-congratulatory.

Well, so today I wrote an e-mail to ombudsman@npr.org, and I kindly reminded the son of a bitch that a majority in both houses of Congress, including a majority of the minority party in both houses, voted for both wars, and that a majority of the American people aproved of both wars according to opinion polls. So it is "our" war -- very, very much our war.

I know they'll laugh at my e-mail, but since they're using my tax money to spew that filth, it gives me a nickel's worth of satisfaction to give them a moment's annoyance as the delete my e-mail and curse me under their breath for being the wrong kind of American.

My brother is a policeman in Glasgow Scotland.

He will be at the ceremony at ground zero.

He is there to mourn the passing of "Bronco" a FDNY fireman.

They played against each other at the world highland bagpipe games in Glasgow.

Bronco was a big man,about 6,4 and heart and soul much bigger.

America we mourn also.

#107 Marco

it gives me a nickel's worth of satisfaction to give them a moment's annoyance as the delete my e-mail and curse me under their breath for being the wrong kind of American.

You mean the wrong kind of Soviet.

If I were speaking to Jacob right now,
I would say,
I've always loved the story of your ladder,
with the angels going up and down,
Once, when I was a child, I even dreamed I saw it.
I was in a field, and the clouds parted, and there it was.
And it looked like a long crowded highway,
the red lights were the angels going up
and the white lights were the angels going down.
But it was only a dream.
But last week, I wasn't dreaming, and I saw it.
I saw your ladder, its silver poles, and rungs of glass,
and I saw the angels falling down,
and they were so fast
fleeting,
and they were so beautiful … and terrible.
and I saw in a cloud of white and gray,
thousands of angels going up, up, up...
And if I could, I would ask Jacob
if he wishes he could forget the vision of his ladder,
the way I wish I could forget mine. (Zoe Klein)

#108 no daft

America we mourn also.

We know.

That's why we love you.

It's why something so trivial as playing "The Star-Spangled Banner" during the Changing of the Guard had such an impact on millions of us.

IN ACADEMIA ON 9/11/3
Something I just have to share with somebody, and I want to share it today, before this day of the 11th comes to an end, and I can't think of a better place to share it than in this thread on this forum---

I work at a university in the South, and I take evening classes there. Our university is not a Berkeley or Columbia. We had a memorial at work today, and our flags were at half-staff. Nobody went around today saying we had it coming. But there is a kind of poison in the air, a fetish of studied uncertainty and obsessive "even-handedness", which, like carbon monoxide, preventing its victims from making use of the oxygen of rational thought that is all around them.

I'm taking a class on Renaissance France, and we read a book , Beneath the Cross by Barbara Diefendorf, about the St. Barthomolomew's Day Massacre in the 1500s, when the king ordered the slaughter of the Protestant leadership and the population, egged on by priests, joined in, killing every Protestant they could find. The death toll was about 3000 men, women, and children. Diefendorf does not think these murders were a jolly good idea , but she is so obsessed with "even-handedness", that she bends over backwards to split the blame between the murderers and their victims 50/50. I don't think she means to be unfair -- I think it's just that this particular massacre was SO morally lopsided in reality, and the historical facts are SO damning to the murderers, and SO exonerating to the innocent, that she can't help making excuses for the guilty and accusations against the innocent, merely to even things up, to avoid having to take sides, because to take sides is simply not what we do in academia. She dismisses every protestant eye-witness account with NPR-style sneers and innuendoes and doubts, while giving a sympathetic hearing to some of the contemporary Catholic rumors against the protestants which were so absurd and so gruesome that I recognize them as being of the species of Blood Libels. And she talks about the evangelical protestants in terms and tones which I know you folks will find extremely familiar from NPR and all points Left -- speaking of a man calmly praying with his family on the morning of their death, she says that the "contemporary reader" finds the story "vaguely disturbing" and "hard to empathize" with because "we cannot readily understand" such "qualities of faith that steeled a man for martyrdom" -- but on page after page she does manage to "understand" and "empathize" with the "sincere" concerns that caused the Parisian catholics to "cleanse" "their" city of the protestant "corruption". I really don't think she intends to be nasty -- I think she's simply embarrased at having to take sides in a massacre, so she transforms the guilty party into the underdogs, and goes to work at rehabilitating their image, because it would just be too embarrassing if we actually had to condemn them. She can't understand why one protestant father encouraged his son not to wear the Catholic's white paper cross on his hat, which was the token during the massacre for who not to kill -- she just can't understand this! Elsewhere: "THE PROPAGANDA MOTIVES OF THE PROTESTANTS WHO PUBLISHED THESE ACCOUNTS ARE CLEAR. THEY WANTED TO DEHUMANIZE THEIR ENEMIES ." The murderers had actually and literally "dehumanized" their victims by cutting their tongues out and burning their faces off, but this author says that the survivors "dehumanized" their torturers by bearing witness to the details of the tortures they made them suffer on that day. But she concludes: "IT IS IN THIS LIGHT, AS A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE, THAT THE MASSACRE MUST BE VIEWED." (A preemptive strikes, she is forced to admit, only against unfounded blood-libellous rumors) Sound familiar?

So tonight we had our class discussion, and there were no moonbats, everyone was very urbane. I told them the reasons I was so troubled by this book, and they listened to me, and I mentioned that although I am no longer a believer, I was raised in a very devout Protestant home, and that the story of the French Protestants was not distant or strange to me, but rather, we felt exactly the same as those people in the Reformation and cherished their memory and example, and that even today, there are Christians in China and Egypt and the Sudan laying down their lives for the Gospel, and all they have to do to save their lives is say a few easy words, say "I love the Socialist Worker's Paradise", or say, "Allah Akbar", but they don't say it -- and far from scorning them, I can only stand in awe and humility before the dazzling example of their moral integrity. And my classmates listened politely to me. But every single one of them spontaneously took the same line, that we must try to understand the killers' point of view, and after all, in the end, it's not really important, is it, whether or not those rumors were true, what's important is that people believed them..... Sound familiar?

Not one word of sympathy for the burnt children, nor of horror at the blood, nor of admiration for the heroes who burned but never cracked. These folks are bright, affable, polite. Some of them were Catholic, some of them were Protestant, some devout, some non-believers. None had any axes to grind. I think it's just a mental habit, to avoid the embarrasment of having to judge anyone -- though they used the word "justification" again and again -- for the murderers. 3000 people dead, their bodies lying torn and mangled in the streets of the city, their lives snuffed out in an orgy of rage fueled by sermons of hate and bizarre urban legends about ritual murders-- but we musn't judge, and we must ask what the victims did that might have "provoked" it. Sound familiar?

So it felt very lonely for me this September 11th. But I had to bear witness. Hier steh' ich, ich kann nicht anders. Thank God you folks will understand this, and make this less lonely.

No mercy, no quarter
to the perpretrator(s).
Only justice, swift,
inexorable, and unflappable.

Today has been somewhat like many days I've had since 9-11: Working, distracted, and occasionally surfing the web looking for images, stories, opinion pieces and music that rubs that "raw spot" on my soul.

It's a black spot, it's rough and it hurts... but I just can't help myself - I'm driven to rub it, feel it, and poke at it. It's been two years now, and all the rubbing and poking and stroking hasn't polished away the anger and grief. I played the flash animation referenced above in #43 and (again) I was reduced to sobbing and angry tears. You'd think after two years I might be beyond this and able to go on to something more constructive; but I can't let it go. I don't even know anybody personally that was killed on 9-11; but I take that day and the actions from that day to this VERY PERSONNALLY.

On 9-11 I knew that the US had to end state sponsored terrorism. I knew that in my heart and soul that the US must take up this bitter task and carry it to the end. Nobody was going to thank us and as it has been shown: only our best friends are going to help us. It's our job. It's our generations job. I carry it everyday to my friends and coworkers. Here on the left coast its definately an opinion that has to be carried because I don't get much support from anybody but my wife. I'm thankful that George Bush seems to have seen the same objective and set his goals accordingly.

I hope George still carries the badge of that NY Port Authority policeman around with him everyday and fingers it when he thinks the job is to big and he can't carry the mission to completion. I hope he rubs that badge as often as I'm rubbing that black spot on my soul that reminds me how mad I am at the islamofascists.

I'm going to poke, rub, and stroke that black spot of mine until EVERY Middle Eastern dictator has fled the field and freedom is the order of the day there. I just pray that the LLL can't get enough traction to derail the project before it's complete.

Damn that medieval religion! They better "hop to" and get their reformation started and completed before we have another 9-11 here... 'cause I'm afraid my "black spot" will overcome my humanity and I'll just want to "Cleanse our world with fusion hellfire... it's not worth the bother and cost of civilizing them."

One of the ways," to never forget ,"is to tell our polticians;
to tell the State Department to adopt a better stance towards the State of Israel as we are not happy with appeasements of Moslems who advocate the demise of the West using Israel as a scapegoat.

The State Department needs to SHUT UP. If Israel feels it is in her safety and security to get rid of Arafat, then I suggest that the SD shut up and stay out of her way. Israels decisions and judgement calls are trust worthy and are in sinc., with our values and.... they are not a chattel to the SD.

As a taxpayer I would urge all taxpayers to remind the your elected officials that it is your $$$$ they are throwing around and you want it to go towards Israel and for them not to dare threaten her with any sanctions, or they can kiss their cushy jobs good-by.
When Israel wins over the terrorist, so does the US.
Write to your politicians. That's how you can commemorate 9/11.

Arafat that bastard terrorist whose movement spawned the 9/11 terrorist years later should've been destroyed a long time ago. Thanks to US foreign policies of the SD, WE inherited Arafats brainchild(ren of terrorist.)

SD - Shut up and sit down. YOU don't have a better solution than Israel. In fact you been f*ing up for years.

#112 Marco

that feeling of being alone on such an already somber day can be crushing. you just want to shake these people and slap them awake. they do not know what path they are taking, nor will they understand later on in life how they got there. i often wonder if people who refuse reason and logic are really happy. do they understand what makes them happy? or, do they do things that only make them "feel" good? i dunno, still trying to figure that out. and i too, when to a similar school. although i suspect a little more conservative than yours. -had a good time there though.

Marco;

Thanks for sharing that with us. It helped me to understand how completely dishonest that "even-handedness" is.

speaking of a man calmly praying with his family on the morning of their death, she says that the "contemporary reader" finds the story "vaguely disturbing" and "hard to empathize" with because "we cannot readily understand" such "qualities of faith that steeled a man for martyrdom"

Your teacher, as a non-believer, is literally telling you the truth. She cannot understand what faith is, so anything she says about it will be wrong.

I get the feeling that you are searching. Maybe you might want to be a believer again. If so, here is a link for you.

Four Spiritual Laws

There is a beautiful tribute to 9/11 on the satirical site 'Allah is in the House'.

[Link: allahakbar.blogspot.com...]

I have a picture saved on my computer of a young teenage girl on the verge of tears. She has a poster of her mom hung with a string around her neck. She was searching the streets for her. That picture has haunted me since 911. I will always wonder if she found her, maybe in a hospital, or maybe she was one of the ones that was lucky enough to have survived this horrible tragedy.

I always cry when I see her.
I always wonder and hope.
I will always pull her picture up and make myself remember the horrors of that day.
I will NEVER forget or forgive those that did this to this young beautiful girl.

I hope they rot in hell!!

I wanted to post this yesterday on 911 but I couldn't even type. I was so ANGRY! I still am. I watched the coverage on tv and wept. I couldn't wait until 3:00 so I could go and pick up my son from school. I knew his smile and hug would make me feel better.

But I will always have this anger within me FOREVER!

Thank you Charles

God Bless America.I will never forget!

#112, 116, et al:

"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel"

Robert Frost

"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

think about it you pussy liberal fucks

#107 Marco,

This is a couple of days late, so I don't know if you will get this or not, but you, and everyone, should keep this in mind:

Send an email, or letter to the station that aired the broadcast.

The station cannot delete the email or throw the letter away. they are required to keep the correspondence for their public file. Send the letter with some sort of return receipt requested.

Once you have confirmation of receipt, give them a few days to get the letter in place.

Then visit the station and request to see their public file. Your letter had better be in it, or else the station can be nailed for improperly maintaining their public file. Then, make a complaint to the FCC, giving all of the pertanant information.

If the letter is in their file, then keep sending them letters and go through the above process. One of two things will happen: 1) they will get caught with an improper public file, or 2) they will have a public file full of letters telling them that their programming sucks.

We'd win either way.

#124 RadioMattM, #107 Marco

Send the letter with some sort of return receipt requested.

That's the key. Spend a couple of bucks & certify it. Otherwise, they can (& likely will) deny it was ever received.

Maintaining a station's public file is a notorious pain in the ass. Depending on the market size, it's a task that receives a bare minimum of attention. But it can be an effective bludgeon against the station, if improperly maintained.

RadioMatt & Brian,
Thanks for the info! I had no clue about this! But now that you say it, it makes sense, since it's "PUBLIC" radio. I may well take the trouble to do this by certified snail mail. I could do it a LOT, because they say things like this a LOT.

Question for you though -- should I bludgeon my local NPR affiliate, or Washington HQ or both?

During the campaign in Iraq last winter an announcer on our local affiliate said, "More on the Republican Administration's war in Iraq coming up at the top of the hour...." -- I wrote the local station and lambasted them for this, as well as for some stupid things said at the Washington level -- honestly, I don't often catch which things are local and which are nationally syndicated, but I've learned to listen more closely. Anyway, the chief of the local station wrote me back and said that the guy who made the crack about the administration's war had been made to apologize and promise never to do it again or he'd be fired -- so that was surprising and pleasing, that I actually got some response. He said that he would forward the other comments to Washington and that I would get a response from NPR's HQ, but I never did.

So again, I guess my question is -- is my local affiliate required to keep records on the correspondence regarding the content of the nationally syndicated programs they carry? And is NPR headquarters required to file ALL the corrpespondence that they get, or is it only people who possess actual transmitters who are required to deal with this kind of paperwork?

Thanks very much.......

PS
Just an aside, and one more reason to hate NPR -- the reason why I can't always tell whether the radio voices are local or national is because they all sound alike -- I live in the deep South, and man, you NEVER hear a southern accent on this local NPR station! Though you do hear British accents, and standard Midwestern accents. I thought the whole POINT of "public" radio was to give a forum to the kinds of voices (in both the literal and broader meanings of the term) that might not otherwise make it onto commercial radio....
GRRRRRRR.........

Marco #126, I know that RadioMattM will be able to answer your questions but not tonight and possibly not tomorrow. Come back to the thread on Monday, and he'll have an answer for you.

I hope that seeing these pictures again reminds us that nothing justified these murders, and that no action taken to hunt these people down ruthlessly is unjustified.

Marco 126 & 127

Don’t confuse the public in public radio with the public in public file. Public radio is public because it uses public funds. The public file is public because a) it includes correspondence from the public regarding station issues, and b) it is open to the public. All U.S. Broadcast stations must maintain a public file.

If you think Peter Jennings says something particularly bad on ABC Evening News one (?) night, then you can write your local ABC affiliate to complain.

The principal is that the airwaves belong to the public. Broadcasters are required to broadcast for the public welfare. What defines what is in the public welfare?. Broadcast stations must determine what issues are of concern to the community of license. Stations speak with community leaders. Stations also read correspondence from the public. Such correspondence is required to be filed in the public file.

I think it is safe to assume that most public broadcasting stations speak with the local ACLU, the Sociology departments from local Universities, CAIR, etc. In other words, a station can probably find the people who will echo what the station already feels are important issues. No such luck with public correspondence. The station is not allowed to pick and choose. However, if 100 letters are in support and one is against what the station has done, then there is nothing compelling the station to change because of one letter. The station is required, though, to keep that one letter (as well as all the others) in the public file. The more letters there are against the station, then that may start to raise flags.

Who may examine the public file? The public. If the station office is open – and there are requirements as to how often the station office must be open – then they must let you see the public file. They can not blow you off. They cannot tell you to come back later. If you go in at 10 AM on a Monday morning, then they’d better let you see the file shortly thereafter.

Earlier this year, an FCC inspector went into the office of a group of Denver radio stations and requested to see the public file. The receptionist said something to the effect of "No one is here who can get that for you right now." Wrong answer. Huge fine. $10,000 if memory serves me correctly. To be fair, don't go in on a 9/11, or during the a massive blackout.

Do not expect to just be given the file and left alone (LLL’s had a tactic of requesting to see the public files, then removing items from the files, then filing a complaint because the files were not complete.) You may ask for copies of items in the file, but the station is allowed to charge you a reasonable amount for the copies. I don’t think it is required that originals be in the file.

Question for you though -- should I bludgeon my local NPR affiliate, or Washington HQ or both?

Networks do not need FCC approval. As such, a network is not responsible to the FCC for its content. Yes, Infinity was fined for obscenity on the Howard Stern program – because, in addition to being the network that distributes the Stern radio show, Infinity also owns the station in New York that broadcasts Stern. The complaint that led to the fine was that Infinity’s radio station broadcast the obscenity – not that their network made the program available.

Therefore, public files will have not real affect on the NPR network. For NPR, keep documentation showing NPR’s bias. Make this documentation available to Congress as it prepares to discuss budget appropriations.

As Brain said in 125, maintaining the public file is a real hemorrhoid. Stinging a station on a public file violations is almost like shooting fish in a barrel.