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-RetweetMuslim Students at Penn Sponsor Nazi

Thu, Oct 9, 2003 at 8:35:08 am PDT

It’s Islam Awareness Week at the University of Pennsylvania, and the Muslim Student Association (MSA) is celebrating by inviting a blatant, long-discredited antisemite with ties to neo-Nazi groups to speak—the “Reverend” William W. Baker, former chairman of the hate group known as the Populist Party: Muslim Students at Penn Sponsor Nazi. And UPenn is paying for it.

Baker, the founder and director of Christians and Muslims for Peace (CAMP) will be one of two invited speakers and the first non-Muslim ever invited to speak at this annual week-long event.

Baker’s selection as speaker is bad enough, but the use of university funds to pay for it is a scandal; the Office of the Chaplain and the Office of the Vice Provost for University Life helped MSA come up with nearly $5,000 for the week-long program.

Baker was in the news in 2002 when he was fired by Rev. Robert Schuller of Crystal Cathedral Ministries, following an exposé in the Orange County Weekly, for his ties to neo-Nazism and his anti-Semitic writings. (Schuller’s California-based Crystal Cathedral is perhaps best known for its nationally syndicated television program “The Hour of Power.”)

The weekly’s investigation revealed that Baker had served as the Populist Party’s chairman in 1984 and organized its convention that year. The Populist Party was an initiative of Willis Carto, the well-known neo-Nazi figure also known for founding the Institute for Historical Review, a group devoted to Holocaust denial, and publisher of the nation’s foremost anti-Semitic newspaper, The SPOTLIGHT (now reorganized as the American Free Press).

Baker has a long record of anti-Semitism; for example, his self-published 1982 diatribe, “Theft of a Nation,” called for the dismantling of the “Zionist State.” In a 1983 speech to the racist Christian Patriot Defense League in Missouri, Baker referred to the Reverend Jerry Falwell as “Jerry Jewry” (for his friendliness to Jews), and his disgust at traveling to New York City, getting off the plane to meet, “pushy, belligerent American Jews.”
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1 ND MN TX  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:36:43am

Hey am I first in line? ...Cosmic

2 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:39:16am

Nazis, Commies and Islamic Fundamentalists Whackballs- how great is that?

3 andrew  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:41:00am

#2
only in America

4 SoCalJustice  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:41:03am

The event is tonight.

Bill Baker, Founder of Christians and Muslims for Peace
Thursday, October 9th
8:15 pm
Terrace Room, Logan Hall (249 S. 36th Street)

link

5 Big Dog  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:41:26am

They're using university dollars for it? That is completely outrageous. If someone tried that here, I think there'd be a riot. It's bad enough they're bringing someone that despicable in, but it's adding insult to injury to have gotten money from the school for this. I'm on the committee for Student Government Association here that makes decisions about spending money on such things, and if someone came to us asking for money for this, they would get zilch. If Student Activities Council funded it, we'd probably look into cutting their budget for such nonsense.

6 Right wing conspirator  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:41:40am

OK. Already off topic but

Maariv (Hebrew) adds that

Official Israeli sources said Thursday that Arafat has hepatitis type B.

Bwaaahaaahaaa !!!

Bye bye fishy. Counting down to your demise :-)

This is in Hebrew, which I can't read so any help would be appreciated.

7 ND MN TX  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:42:22am

This is just another fine example of the boundless lack of any common sense that continues on and on in the midst of our country's large universities. Makes you stop and think about sending your little Johnnies and Julies off to college for some LLL professors to try and brainwash.
On another note... yesterday I noticed that tuition at Univ of Tejas is projected to go up 65% in 2004. They gotta pay for all of those hard working liberals somehow.

8 JohnWilksBooth  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:43:34am

Sounds like a perfect testing site for my 12 gauage I just bought. And less then a hundred miles away from me now at that.

hmmm...


I am of course refering to all the empty soda bottles that will be left behind from the gathering. They make wonderful targets to shoot at.

9 FreakyBoy  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:51:31am

David Duke is going to warm up the crowd.

10 newname  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:52:52am

Well, these Muslim students must have made a "mistake" and couldn't have known Baker was a Nazi.

Isn't it obvious?

11 nyc  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:55:03am

My alma mater. I'm ashamed.

I'm actually going down there tonight. Where can I get a cream pie?

12 ND MN TX  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:55:54am

Aren't all new Qurans printed with a swastika on the cover now? Heil

13 I'm the REAL JG  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:56:09am

#6

This is good news! Couldn't happen to a more deserving cretin:

Definition of Hepatitis B

14 AG in Houston  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:56:50am

#6

The exact translation is as follows:

The Jews have struck a mighty blow to the animal Arabs!! Our Mossad operatives have pricked Arafat with Hepatitis and he is in the throws of death!

Our plans are now clear and all is going according to the Protocols!

We will dress in our Jewish Battlegear and throw mighty warhammers at the infidelic Arab Muslims!!!

Hopefully with better aim than Florida Marlins pitchers, last night!

Tel Hai!!!

15 Narniaman  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:58:38am

Hey!!

What's the problem???

Just a University doing what it can to celebrate Diversity!!

Imagine!! Here we have Television preachers (well, sort of, since Baker was associated with Robert Schuller before he got canned) joining hands with Jihadis to. . . .

imagine and celebrate the destruction of all the Nazi/pig/zionist/capitalist/neoconservative/etc Jews!!!

Isn't that what a University is for? And this at a University founded by a Quaker, that's about as far as you can get from a televangelist and a jihadi? To bring people together and break down barriers?

It makes one want to cry tears of happiness!!

16 ND MN TX  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 6:58:45am

News from the sloughs???

17 harsten  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:01:26am

My alma mater, too. One of my friends has been urging me to donate even a token amount to Penn, to advance their standings in the annual USN&WP survey which takes into account % of alums who donate. Well, all arguments he will care to make will go completely unheeded, as long as any $ I dontated could possibly go to something as vile as this.

Shame on Penn. Shame on the student community for putting up with this utter BS. Grrr. The whole University-funded student groups thing should be trashed. Now. It was a source of much pain to me ten years ago, and I see now that it hasn't gotten mucadditter. Fie upon them.

18 Smit  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:02:17am

Check out the website of Christians and Muslims for Peace (CAMP).

CAMP

Their slogan is

nothing is sacred except the truth

and their purpose?

Another primary purpose of CAMP is to illuminate and dispatch the false stereotypes, distortions, and outright propaganda concerning both religions, such as: Islam treats women as mere possessions, Islamic fundamentalists are a threat to Christianity and the West; Christianity is opposed to Islam and Christians consider Muslims unbelievers, etc.

Cheers, that's all I need to know about CAMP.

19 JustSayNoToJihadAndTelevangalists  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:03:22am

#15 Narniaman


put down the pep pills and slowy walk away!!!

thats is... keep walken...

20 Neo_Con  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:04:22am

#15 Narniaman 10/9/2003 08:58AM PST

Imagine!! Here we have Television preachers (well, sort of, since Baker was associated with Robert Schuller before he got canned) joining hands with Jihadis to. . . .

"...since Baker was associated with Robert Schuller..."

You forgot to mention in your witty little post that Schuller canned Baker because of his anti-semitic views. But why bother with the details right?

21 Narniaman  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:04:32am

Uh, strike that comment about

"Nazi/pig/zionist/capitalist/neoconservative/etc Jews"

since Baker appears at least to have strong Nazi sympathies, they probably wouldn't want to associate that term with the despicable Jewish race.

Let's change it from "Nazi" to something really terrible, like "Bushitler" . . .but wait, can't do that either, since Hitler was just a misunderstood Nazi and probably had good intentions. . . .

I guess we'll have to stick with the old tried and true formulas. . . .

"Chauvinist/pig/groper/zionist/capitalist/neocons ervatives/etc Jews"

Gee!! Do you think maybe I could make it at the University of Pennsylvania?

22 JeffF  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:04:40am

#4 SoCalJustice

Thanks for the Camp link. Let all us Jew Haters unite in peace to dispel the awful rumors about us being Jew Haters...wait a minute...

23 littleoldlady  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:04:51am

Very short notice on this one. No time to complain to the University before they gave the money, or even to organize a protest. Penn has a very active Hillel but I found nothing on their site about this. Maybe the event was so un-promoted on campus that no one noticed? (Wishful thinking?)

24 RachelCorriePancakes  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:08:13am

My alma mater as well. And they will continue to not receive one single penny from me depsite their 20-times-a-year pleas I get in the mail.

25 RayA  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:10:30am

"Christians and Muslims for Peace"???

Yes, I am almost certain that Jesus would be very happy to support anti-Jewish sentiments and in solidarity with the religion (Islam) and an ideology (fascism) responsible for killing the most Christians in the history of this planet…

As a Christian, this shit drives me nuts!

26 Paul  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:10:33am

It's all about diversity and academic freedom. Yeah, that's it, giving voice to the marginalized. Of course if Daniel Pipes or Bernard Lewis were to speak at UP, the LLLs would justify disruptions by calling it hate speech.

#2 You're so right. A coalition of Islamicists and Leftists invite a neo-nazi to give a keynote speech. Hmmm, what do these people have in commmon?

27 Ariel  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:12:16am

Big Dog #5 - Are you a current student?

nyc #11, harsten #17,

My alma mater as well. I was just getting over the decision to have the racist, Jew-hater Desmond Tutu being granted an honorary degree and thinking about donating. No more. I will not donate money to Penn as long as they insist on throwing it at Nazis.

28 Anant  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:15:35am

#23

That's probably what happened. I know that at MIT, all of the funding decisions for student activities were made behind closed doors, by a group of students who really didn't want to be there and were trying to get out as fast as possible. There was no way for one group to object o funding requests by another group. Maybe it works the same way at Penn?

29 Narniaman  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:16:14am

Neocon spake (or wrote) thusly:


"You forgot to mention in your witty little post that Schuller canned Baker because of his anti-semitic views. But why bother with the details right?"

My, my, my Neocon, you are just being waaayyy too judgmental. And besides that, you're really not using the right words to describe the situation.

You see, Neocon, all the people in the mideast are semitic. The Reverend Baker wasn't against all the people in the mideast, so you can't really say he was anti-semitic now, can you?

Instead, Preacher Baker was canned for speaking out in support of the courageous indigineous people who are willing to give their lives for their beliefs in the face of a cabal of zionistic oppressors!!

30 RachelCorriePancakes  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:16:43am

#26
Dr. Pipes did speak recently at Penn. Turnout was good - mostly older, more mature people. Few students. One dumb wingnut held up a sign that said "PIPES IS A MCCARTHYITE BIGOT."
When she tried to get in the Q&A she naturally soapboxed some nonsense about being happy that Noam Chomsky got such a bigger turnout. When she tried to continue her ambush the crowd shut her down bigtime. It was delightful.
Penn is a haven of PC upperclass know-it-alls bordered by a neighborhood of pseudo-radical ne'er do wells. Every dipshit self-proclaimed 'anarchist','dissident', or whatever fashionable BS label stands for not working or bathing finds a haven in good old West Philly, especially the cult of St. Mumia. The one good thing to see is that the Wharton Business School dominates the landscape of the campus which drives all the socially conscious off their nuts.

31 Ariel  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:18:37am

Feel free to let the Vice Pres. for University Life know what you think: (215) 898-5337, cade@pobox.upenn.edu. Also the Chaplain: (215) 898-8456, wgipson@pobox.upenn.edu.

32 freedomsound  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:18:48am

Sorry if this has been posted already...

Cops found more than they expected when they went to arrest a Queens priest on harassment charges - guns, gay porn and Nazi paraphernalia, officials said.

33 Seymour Paine  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:26:49am

Actually, I'm glad the Muslim students are sponsoring a neo-Nazi in that it is a step in making explicit a relationship that we know already exist in spirit. I hope the Muslims form more connections with Neo-Nazis.

34 ZBeeblebrox  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:42:01am

Oh yeah, we're very aware of Muslims and their political predilections now. Well done, MSA.

35 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:43:21am

Now remember guy, Islam means peace!

/sarcasm off

Learn the Truth about Islam

36 Kylaer  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:45:28am

#29 Narniaman

You're speaking in jest...right?

37 Mr. E. Train  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:47:19am

#33

I couldnt agree more! Sheltering in victimhood as well as tolerance for religious diversity is the ONE edge the Islam-o-facists have over us.

Should the close relation between facist islamic thought and facist neo-nazi thought be brought fully into the light of day that advantage would disappear. While in the short term this litte party and those like it disturb in the long run it could turn to our advantage. At some point the packs of leftist-student-do'gooders will look up and find themselves cheering on full on Neo-Nazis standing on a stage ranting against jews with learing members of CAIR or some other terrorist front group... and it will suddenly hit them like a slap in the face!

Remember, to the Lefties Neo-Nazi = the Right, Rush Limbaugh, G W Bush and the like... evil right wing wakos, Rednecks .. everything they HATE! If enough Nazi-Islamic get togethers happen on college campi then perhaps a few connections will be made in their little brains... that hard core Islamists = Facism and that what they are cheering for is people who's first act will be to stone them to death!

LET THE TEACH INS BEGIN !!!

38 Meryl Yourish  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:48:42am

The Populist Party... that reminds me of an event that happened when I was in my late teens. I used to drive past an illegal sign posted on the median of Route 22 that touted the Populist Party candidate during an election. It was dayglo orange. You couldn't miss it.

One night, a friend and I were driving past it around midnight or so, and I parked the car, ran out to the median and ripped down the sign. My friend thought I was nuts until I explained to her why I was tearing it down. Then she helped.

Narniaman (#29), the term anti-Semitism was specifically coined to mean Jew-hatred.

You are misinformed about the use of Semitic peoples and anti-Semitism.

39 Neo_Con  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 7:53:52am

regarding #29 Narniaman,

I'm pretty sure he was just joking.

right?

40 Dirk Diggler  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:02:26am
Instead, Preacher Baker was canned for speaking out in support of the courageous indigineous people who are willing to give their lives for their beliefs in the face of a cabal of zionistic oppressors!!

Yeah, let' hear it for the indigenous peoples of Syria! Go back to listen to your "Rage" CD's and prepare for the next "Free Mumia" rally, jackass...

41 Kimberly  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:02:27am

#30 - I agree completely. I work in West Philly on the edge of campus and I can barely stand to look at the flyers and graffiti that litter the neighborhood (both the uppercrust and lowercrust parts). "Nuke Israel Now" was one charming piece of vandalism I saw on a newspaper box.

It's amusing (somewhat) to read in the papers, as I have, that these same uppercrust UPenn students who allegedly support the left-wing/Marxist/Palestinian causes are terrified to stray from campus into the lovely areas of West Philly that I've come to call "Muslim Nation." The little rich-bitch LLLs are too afraid of losing their Burberry tote bags should they wander into the neighborhoods where Jew-hating is stated a bit more bluntly.

Philly, in fact, has one of the lowest percentages in the nation of college attendees who stay in the area after graduating, which means that these snooty UPenn types spend four years agitating for left-wing causes, then go away because they're too scared to actually live in Philly. Morons.

Glad to hear the Pipes lecture wasn't dominated by the LLLs. However, it's ironic to see that a neo-Nazi supporter is speaking at Penn, on the students' dime, given Penn's oh-so-strict racial harassment policy. After all, this is the same university at which a Jewish student was damn near expelled after he called two noisy black female students "water buffalos". He didn't mean anything racial by it; he was just pissed that they were being so noisy and disturbing him.

So, as long as the estimatable "Reverend" Baker doesn't use that term, U Penn's officials will be just fine. Or maybe it's that Penn has decided only Jews can be held liable for violating the racial harassment policy.

The more I live up here with these "intellectuals", the happier I am that I attended state colleges down south where neo-Nazis and violent agitators were given the contempt they deserve.

42 Daniel  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:04:13am

My alma mater. The leftist presence there is maddening. I was happily insulated from most of it, as I was taking courses with 'hard' (as in not wishy washy) subject matter. I took one political science course to fill a requirement and was simply amazed. I would actually leave each class in wonderment that people like m classmates and professor actually still existed in the modern world. I know that this is typical in the ivy league, but I'm still amazed.

Penn actually has a sizable Jewish population. I suspect that the school's Hillel chapter and other organizations will at the very least come out protest this speech.

43 Seymour Paine  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:06:32am

#37 Mr. E Train--Thanks for elaborating on my comment and you said it very well. In fact, it's weird for the LLL to support the Muslims when they are so repressive, but I guess consistency is the...

44 rusta  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:26:34am

I am a 45 year old that went back to college to get a degree. I am dumbfounded at what we ( Gov. Schools) are teaching in our schools that may help explain this lack of reason that the Left exhibts.

Case in point the course is" Critical Thinking"
Text Book: Thinking for Youself
by Marlys Mayfield.. Fifth Edition
pg. 78, First Paragraph
"Facts are our interpretations of what is real and true"
Begining section heading on the opposite page
FACTS ARE NOT ABSOLUTES

If there are no facts,
right and wrong become meaningless

45 Michael Levy  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:45:01am

The best way for sane Penn students to fight against this outrage would be to publicize the event as much as they could. Make posters for it, put up fliers, make announcements in class for it (with the profs' permission, of course), and drum up as much attention as possible so lots of people will go see it, and they can see firsthand what the "peace" movement stands for.

46 Shifra  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:53:09am

My daughter will be glad to see all the news about U of Penn. I had wanted her to check it out as a possible place to apply to for next year( they have a huge Hillel and Jewish population). Now she has one less school to consider.

47 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 9:09:26am

#29 Narniaman indigenous people indeed! So did the Jews stop being indigenous after the Baylonian or the Roman diaspora, or do you subscribe to the idea that today's Jews are not the Old Testament Jews?

How is it that after 3500 years of continous habitation and history, the Jews lose their status as indigenous to the land? What archaeological evidence do you have to support your conclusion?

For bonus points you can tell me how the Arab inhabitants of the Holy Land became indigenous? You can get extra bonus points by explaning the mysterious arrival of tens of thousands of Arabs who were not present during descriptions of the Holy Land from the mid 1850's (you could ride for miles and not see ANYONE!)?

It really is no mystery when you know no history! [feel free to quote me on that!]

48 M. Simon  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 9:22:21am

#14 AG in Houston,

I think the Marlins will get their fish fried by the Cubs.

I think bears and their Cubs are fish eaters in any case.

Go Cubbies.

Even my wife who was born on the South Side has come to a true understanding and is a Cubs fan.

I lived for years just down the street from Wrigleyville on the 2000 block of Sheffield Ave.

49 Ariel  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 9:35:01am

Shifra #46,

Penn is about 40% Jewish. I wouldn't really worry about it there.

I spoke to the Office of the Chaplain and they said that they have provided funds for Islam Awareness Week but not for this particular speaker. So I suspect that Front Page was being a little bit misleading by phrasing this the way they did.

The VPUL person I spoke to was not certain whether they were sponsoring it and will get back to me with that information.

50 Charles  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 9:41:45am

Ariel: if the university provided funds for Islam Awareness Week, and the MSA used those funds to hire a neo-Nazi speaker, the university did pay for it. I don't agree that Front Page was misleading; it sounds more to me like the Office of the Chaplain is trying to cover their butts.

51 MG lazer  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 9:58:40am

Ariel,

You sound dumbfounded and blind to the truth in front of your face

52 MG lazer  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 9:59:25am

ACLU -> ISMs -> HAMAS

LEFTISTS -> MEDIA -> ACADEMIA -> NEO-NAZIS -> ISLAMISTS

53 escobar  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:08:20am

If a university invited a conservative speaker who admired Hitler (but only for his public speaking, not the camps) and a socialist who admired Stalin for his drinking ability (but not for the gulags)---I suspect LGF readers would be enraged by # 2 but happily accept #1. It would be the reverse on commondreams and other "progressive" websites. And that is a pity and a plague on both sides.

54 publius  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:08:30am

Disappointing response from Hillell at Penn

Hillel Interfaith Chairwoman and College sophomore Amanda Ring said that, though Hillel was unable to co-sponsor this particular event, she looks forward to attending it, and to planning discussion groups and forums with the MSA in the future.


Local Coverage of Awareness Week

55 Camel Prophet  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:12:42am

Interfaith is central to the Bush regimes diplomacy with islamania. The fact that muslims claim that Judaism and Christianity are satanic distortions of islam - which they originate with Abraham, who they claim was not Jewish!!! - cannot impact on GWB's alcohol sotted brain. The geographical range of the real "axis of evil" is: Mecca, Medina, Riyadh. A counter-terror war cannot be won until these terror financing, recruitment and incitement centers are turned into ashes.

Read the official Wahabi position on interfaith, from their most authoritative ideological perverts, or forever hold your apologetic tongue:

[Link: www.alminbar.com...]
[Link: www.alminbar.com...]

I have skim-read all the "Abrahamite" books that have spewed out over the past decade, without paying a cent, and its time that this propaganda that originates with "Peace Now's" self-hating Jews was countered with facts. Inter-faith-Abrahamism needs to be tossed into the dustbin of history.

56 M. Simon  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:13:55am

M. Glazer,

The ACLU is not monolithically wrong. They are correct about certain issues and do champion free speech. They do get the drug laws.

I think their stand on the Nazis in Skokie was heroic and correct. And being a Jew I despise the Nazis.

They championed the anti-Jim Crow movement in America before it became popular.

If more on the Right supported the organization (despite it's communist roots) they might get it a little better.

57 SoCalJustice  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:18:06am

(#53) escobar:

WTF are you talking about?

You think people here would "happily accept"

If a university invited a conservative speaker who admired Hitler (but only for his public speaking, not the camps)

?

That's absolutely nutty. Anyone with anything - anything - positive to say about Hitler will be flamed.

From what evidence do you draw that conclusion?

58 escobar  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:23:28am

#57

Gosh, who could it have been, thirty years after the end of WWII, expressing admiration for Der Fuehrer as a public speaker?

59 MG lazer  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:24:02am

M. Simon,

I am NOT talking about the ACLUs hitorical ideals

I am talking about their current, yet unproven, funding of American pro-terrorists (e.g. ISM) and then those who in turn directly help out international terrorists such as HAMAS

Funds collected by the ACLU are being given to groups such as ISM via cash/check and carry through the likes of Stanley Cohen types. Research the American NorthWest and the Portland Seven case for Stanley Cohen and local ACLU offshoot chapters

LIBERAL MEDIA -> POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

All came from the ACLU and Academic Leftists

They support the principle of weakening America via America - a slow but working process that is hard to not notice at this point

They support Terrorists in many forms. Tacit public intellectual approval, conspiratorial complicitness and so on

Their goal is to make America 'equal' in strength to other countries in the world

They are using our system to do so

60 SoCalJustice  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:25:34am

(#58) escobar:

Was that not proven to be a false accusation?

I think it was.

61 ecobar  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:29:36am

No, that part was true (false was his alleged admiration for Hitler's ideology.) But as we've learned, language and ideas--like love and marriage, DO go together.

62 M. Simon  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:38:30am

escobar,

You have not spent enough time here. The regulars despise Hitler, Stalin and statist solutions in general.

63 Morgan  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:42:41am

"Elite" universities such as Penn have long tradition of antisemitic guest lecturers. In the 1980's, Louis Farrakhan was invited to lecture Penn students. More recently, Desmond Tutu gave a graduation speech at Penn. Harvard invited Tom "shoot the Jews" Paulin to receive an honor, while Columbia hired him to teach a course. Other Muslim radicals, Black nationalists and far left-wing kooks are always welcome to spew their venom on campus. Meanwhile, these schools adopted hate speech codes directed at students whose speech offended the powers that be. Always disgusting, but never surprising.

64 M. Simon  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:44:29am

M. Glazer,

You are probably correct. And I don't deny they have been on the wrong side of many issues.

It is a pity and telling though that their is no corresponding group on the right standing for civil liberties. Because by staying out of the fray the right has conceeded civil liberties to the left. Which is a shame.

None the less when the ACLU is on the correct side of an issue I suppport them.

65 SoCalJustice  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:48:59am

(#61) escobar:

Ok, just googled up what Arnold actually said.

You're right - sorry. He did say he admired Hitler's speaking ability but not what he did with it, although he was originally misquoted as to say that he actually admired what Hitler did with his abilities.

That is absolutely disgusting. I do not want to make any excuses for him.

BUT he has since donated a lot of money to the Simon Weisenthal center.

What are we to do with that knowledge? Can he be reformed?

66 SoCalJustice  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:55:42am

escobar:

By the way, could Stalin hold down his vodka or what? Was he a lightweight?

67 escobar  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 10:58:26am

#65

Oh, Arnie has gone as far as he can--he's no Nazi, nobody will be goose-stepping in California. But his cavalierattitude to Austria's suppressed past and his admiration for Hitler der Speaker---worse than the scummy attitude to his groping (ie sexual assault.) But he may rise with the office.

68 Ariel  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 11:03:06am

Charles #50,

if the university provided funds for Islam Awareness Week, and the MSA used those funds to hire a neo-Nazi speaker, the university did pay for it.

Sort of. It allows the university to maintain plausible deniability (your point), but it also means that they could plausibly have given the responsibility for organizing the event (and using the funds) to the MSA; we all know that universities aren't exactly known for strict oversight of how their funds are used - so while I think that they are wrong to not hold the MSA accountable, it is consistent with the sort of actions I would expect. And it's not exactly the same thing as if the Chaplain directly gave money to Baker - which would imply a direct endorsement of the chap, instead of wanting to promote Islam Awareness Week - and the organizer of that wanted to promote this speaker.

I still believe the MSA should be held accountable. But it's not as though the University gave money for the direct sponsorship of Baker.

escobar,

I doubt you'll find anyone here who supports Hitler. OTOH, I think that it's really hard to make a case that Arnold supports Hitler in any way. You might recall that he used to beat up Neo-Nazi thugs when he still lived in Austria. He's also a big donor to the Simon Wiesenthal Center. And by writing that he is the presumed "conservative speaker who admired Hitler (but only for his public speaking, not the camps)" you are misrepresenting the truth - just like the NYT and the LAT did.

M G lazer #51,

You sound dumbfounded and blind to the truth in front of your face

Thanks!

69 Devon Hill  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 11:26:01am

Damned man...I know this guy...he has been up in Calgary before and the Muslim community here would always brag about him but I was always suspicious of him because he would lay all these platitudes about how Islam was so great and that we ignorant Christians didn't know anything about Islam???


Freakin hilarious...now it turns out the guy is part of a Neo Nazi group??!! This is great!! Totally ruin this idiot!!

He was on our local news a few years ago propagandizing Islam at some local Islamic fest here in Calgary...I just assumed it was another naive christian that didn't have a clue of what he was talking about?

Well...isn't this good news...another fraud exposed!!

Thanks

Devonator

70 Rick Z  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 11:40:08am

Oh, to be young, in college, footloose and fancy free, chasing the next beer or date, without a care in the world, except making sure Mommy and Daddy's check arrives on time and clears the bank.

We may talk about Islamobots and the festering boils they create on the hide of humanity, but Ivybots can be just as deadly and must be handled with appropriate CAIR.

71 Narniaman  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 12:09:54pm

To all those concerned about my earlier posts prattling on about indigenous mid-east peoples who courageously give their lives for their deep beliefs in spite of oppression from the Zionistic cabal. . .etc, and so forth. . . .


Folks, I was talking tongue in cheek.

I was trying to exaggerate the typical LLL crap that we are inudated with.

I guess it just shows how difficult it is be more outrageous then they are.

72 Upenn  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 1:14:11pm

Please, write the office of the President.

presweb@pobox.upenn.edu

I am a Upenn alumnus and have spoken my peace. Has anyone read about the cool chick at Harvard who stirred up a ruckus over a donation by an anti semitic think tank?

With any luck, Arafat will falafel himself to death, though that doesn't earn you any virgins.

73 Evan  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 5:09:24pm

On the topic of delusional, anti-Semitic nutbars, here's a great Israpundit article about Norman Finkelstein: Intellectual Bully

And the comments are also quite good, for the most part, just watch out for the second to last one...

74 Chris  Thu, Oct 9, 2003 8:38:08pm

Wow. As a Penn alumn, I'm quite surprised that this seems to be passing without comment on campus. As Ariel said, there's a fairly high Jewish population among the student body, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of comment at dailypennsylvanian.com about the choice of speaker. They don't seem to have an article up yet about the speech, since it was tonight, but I'm guessing they will Friday morning (EST).

Writing a letter to the administration may or may not do any good; Penn's been pretty good (IMO) in remaining impartial and not playing "hate speech" games (which I think is to our advantage; letting the academy decide who it wants to ban is unlikely to lead to good results). Getting the message to the student population is more likely to kick up a fuss. Here's what I'd suggest:

1) dailypennsylvanian.com has web comments for its stories. If there's some story tomorrow attempting to whitewash Bill Baker, the lizardoid hordes can air his laundry there.

2) Alums like me should probably also write letters (I think they accept email, too) to the editor commenting on it. Include some of the quotes, like the one about "the first people I meet when I get off the plane are pushy, belligerent American Jews", and mention his inflation of academic credentials, etc.; it looks like he's kept up a facade of "plausible deniability", so just ranting about how disgraceful it is that a neo-Nazi came to speak is going to leave you open to claims from his supporters that he's only an anti-Zionist, you're distorting his record, etc. If anyone can find more non-plausibly-deniable indiscretions of his, that would help.

Even if the letters don't get published, they might get seen by the traditional conservative columnist (the DP usually has a liberal columnist, a conservative columnist, an oppressed-minority columnist, a fluffy female columnist for light relief from the political crossfire, and a few others thrown in) and an editorial might come out of that. Exposing the poor judgement of the MSA to the student body at large will probably be the best prophylactic against future incidents.

(And Penn *is* by and large a very Judeophilic school; they build four sukkot on campus every year, there's lots of people walking around with lulav and etrog, and so forth. Unfortunately, this kind of dippy anti-Zionism wrapped in ecumenism will probably turn up anywhere you look in the academy.)


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