Cant offend the sauds can we?

On the bright side at least they didn't put down Palestine as a country.

Still, it does seem to be a rather insightful view into how the State Department views the area and it's not a pretty sight. I only wish I could say I was surprised by this development. As it is it makes perfect sense with what they've done so far. :-(

I mean what the f*** is going on with certain segments of OUR government.?..I fight daily debate battles with some poorly equipt employees that are left of center...and as I TRY HARD to defend and relate to the policy in the middle easts conflicts...I have to see the confusing mixed up shitty signals that the ole State dept. is vomiting out again....um, do these high level branches read from the same page?

Saudi Arabia?

Erica: notice, however, that they do include the dotted line separating "Palestine" from a certain other entity that shall remain nameless.

On a serious note, Charles, for me the proof that this is not innocent is that the map of Syria goes out of its way to label Israel when only a small part of the country is even shown on the map.

Good catch Evariste!

To me this just looks like a map of Saudi Arabia.

Hey, cut the State Dept. a little slack won't ya. C'mon now, it's not easy to fit The Barbaric Imperialist Sons of Pigs and Monkeys Apartheid Deathzone onto the already crammed left side of the map.

Well, in fairness to them, there is this.

That may be the way all the maps are set up on this site. For instance, the map of Iraq doesn't say Iraq, but it does have the names of all the neighboring countries.

Map of Iraq

Same for Egypt:

Map of Egypt

Dang, who knew that Syria's southern border stretched all the way to the Sinai and Eilat?

Sophorist: every nearby country. The missing country name is not Saudi Arabia.

Doh. Gotcha. So that's what it feels like to be an idiot. Wow, scary.

I also enjoyed the "no defined boundary" between Saudia Arabia and Yemen. Practically speaking, that could apply to most of these countries.

evariste #6 - Good catch. Appeasing the Saudis in the State Department, who knew?

State Dept officials can't endanger the lucrative financial paypacks they get for their lapdog services for the Royal mysogynist xenophobics...

The Map of Jordon lists Israel's Golan Heights as "Israeli Occupied"

www.state.gov/p/nea/ci/jordan

Oho! What is funny is that Allah was just listening to NIN, and now he comes here and sees your government bowing down before the one it serves. What is more, it is indeed going to get what it deserves.

Btw, what is up with that undefined boundary between Yemen and the Kingdom? Oh well--either way it is all "Allah country," you know?

While browsing the talk.politics.libertarian newsgroup I found a link to a forum for libertarians. In reading a few posts I found that there is a strong opposition to these so called "neo-cons". Then I found this.

[Link: www.originaldissent.com...]
Accompanying this image is this text.
"A way to solve 90% of America's problems by removing the 2% that causes them."

Needless to say, I think I found a new idiotarian site to debunk. Feel free to join me.
[Link: forums.originaldissent.com...]

Allah! I'm shocked! You're listening to Trent Reznor addressing you as "Hey Pig!"?!

#19 axiom

Went to the site...all kinds of crazy stuff there. Including this:

Jews ride various bicycles to get to World Conquest: communism, socialism, neo-conservatism, leftism, feminism, etc., etc. It's all the same Jew, just different vehicles....

Link here.

libertarians are obsessed with Jews too. That's pretty ironic considering that group supposedly believes in anything goes, live and let live.

Everyone is obsessed with Jews.

I just think that sometimes it's possible to see things that are not really there, if you try hard enough.

There are may things that the State Department does do that is reprehensible, I just don't want us wasting our energies on something that may be nothing.

It appears that every thread they have is devoted to the evil Jew. And I bet some of you non-Jews out there a few years ago thought Jews were paranoid for no real reason.

Pat Robertson was right. Nuke the State Department.

Rob? from IF?

eeewww..

that conservative anti-neocon site is a good antidote to the liberal anti-neocon site DU - if they join together in their common hatred of neo-cons (aka Jews), maybe they will kill each other and leave the Jews the hell alone..

Right Teacake. Good to see you. I left you a post on your message board

I think they are a bunch of pill popping Birch Society folk glorifying themselves with an impressive new title.

HEy! I noticed that. Good to see you here.

Knuckling under to the rotten bastards who sponsor world-wide hatred and terrorism

Knuckling under and bending over.

15 of 19;

28 pages;

Bandar/Abdullah lunch at Crawford...

OT

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia OIC Meeting

Mahathir mouths off:

"Israel has been urging America to invade Syria, and Americans seemed to be reluctant, so in order to force the hand of America, Israel invades Syria," Mahathir said.

The prime minister said there wasn't much the Islamic nations could do.

"Well, we can go to war," he said sarcastically "but we have no capacity to go to war. That's the problem. Because we allow ourselves to become weak, people bully us."

I asked somewhere else and no one answered-so what do Birchers advocate?
Feel free to ignore me again; it's not like Google doesn't exist :-)

Look at all of those undefined boundaries on these maps: Jordan and Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, and much much more. What a mess.

Before Ahem was banned, [s]he tried to argue in comments here that Israel MUST have internationally recognized boundaries, because a state without defined boundaries cannot be recognized (see #198 as one example). It's a lame debating point, but for what it's worth State's Middle East maps provide a stronger refutation than the one I offered in that thread.

Take a gander at the UAE. Just like Israel before its peace treaty with Egypt; no recognized boundaries except for the shoreline.

I'm fascinated that State puts a dashed line between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the West Bank. Almost nobody recognized Jordan's annexation of that territory after the 1948 War, and Jordan renounced any claim to it years ago. So in what sense is that border disputed today??

None of which detracts from the point of the headline: State's supine decision to avoid offending the sensibilities of our ally Saudi Arabia by not defiling its country map with a named reference to the Zionist Entity is outrageous.

The State Dept's Map of Israel.

www.state.gov/p/nea/ci/israel

Looks like they ran out of the white paint when they got near the North East part of the country.

Ahem was banned?

I thought he finally just got worn down or bored...

A) Every other country listed on the state dept. site that has Israel in their map has it labeled.

B) The main map of the near east shows Israel, the territories and Lebanon on a separate inset map.

Conclusion: ditch the conspiracy theory, the country's name wouldn't fit.

#34 Ben F.-Hell, I'd settle for a State Department map of Saudi Arabia that literally said "Zionist Entity" over Israel!

Charles gets deeply offended, and rightly so. So do I. The problem occurs (and I'll admit being desensitized recently) when you get so many of these things thrown your way (examples too numerous to mention) you're not quite sure how to react.

"The Klingon Empire will never yield."

Do we still have our balls?

SoCalJustice-He got banned today; Charles discovered that he is actually the same person as another troll that he had banned previously.

SoCalJustice-the rebanning of "Ahem".

ya know, most of the time their excuse is "Israel's so small....we don't have room for it on the map"

blah blah....

Reminds me of a Syrian map I saw sometime in the nineties that defined Israel as "greater Syria". That was good for a chuckle.

I know, but there's room for Lebanon? One more letter in a country half the size? Or Bahrain, one more letter in a country 1/10000000th the size!

# 43: heh, for some reason I thought Lebanon had lots more letters than Israel. must be because it has so many more syllababbles. or maybe because i'm weird.

They coulda put Israel over sinai. I know a couple of ex-sinai residents who wouldnt mind that....

mmm....sinai....

Hungry for Life...Thirsty for Sinaya.

Okay shoot me now.

evariste - the john birtch society are like the black heliocopter people, militia lite, but with a little bit higher IQ. THey have been around for ages.

mountain men with an edjamakation.

evariste:

Thanks. Finally some good news...

Here's a Bircher essay entitled: An Invitation to Liberty which has some key info about the group.

A Higher Conspiracy

Thanks to Robert Welch's defiant courage, the John Birch Society stands uniquely alone in identifying the true cause of our imminent danger as a semi-secret international cabal whose members sit in the highest places of influence and power worldwide. The American branch of this power elite is most visibly manifested in the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), which for many years was headed by David Rockefeller, with its members holding key positions in government, the military, business, labor, education, finance, and the media. The CFR's international cousin is the Trilateral Commission, the membership of which is comprised of top officials from government, business, labor, and academic circles in the U.S., Japan, and Europe.

*shoots evariste*

Yah, Birchers are like neo-cons to the max? They're a bit crazy, or so I hear. And if I have offended anyone here it's coz I just killed a man, and i'm a bit crazy at the moment. Thanks.

Conclusion: ditch the conspiracy theory, the country's name wouldn't fit.

Lebannon's name wouldn't fit. It still got put on the map. Jordan's name wouldn't fit. It still got put on the map. Qatar, Kuwait, Egypt and Bahrain's names wouldn't fit. They still got put on the map. Only one country in the area didn't get its name put on the map.

Generally, I am not one to buy into conspiracy theories, and I think that this site sometimes crosses the line into promoting conspiracy theories. But I am right there with Charles on this. This is a new low for the State Department, and I didn't think my opinion of them could get any lower. Heads need to roll for this. High up heads.

#38 Evariste--

I like the way your mind works! Sounds like a job for Photoshop.

BTW, I posted regarding this site on the Kahanist website thread. It looks evil, and I think it's a PIJ site based on the emblem (though registered in Kuwait), but I can't read it or understand the audio. What do you make of it?

Being a devout Agnostic (raised catholic) I really don't give a shit about joos one way or another. I do know I have been bombarded by TV and movie depictions of joowish suffering all my life. What is it with the victimhood? Nobody suffers like the jews. You would think from the heavy handed hollywood portrayal of only jewish misery that they were the only people in the world to have ever been done wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-jew. I just wonder if what I have had drummed into my head is accurate. As for the Palestinians, I dont see much to admire about a people who will blow up their own children just to kill a few infidels(jews, etc.) I still haven't gotten a solid answer to my question of who holds the original deed to Israel/Palestine. The whole picture is muddy due to political revision of history. Who's history is one to believe?

IMHO the first step to peace over there is the death of Arafata$$. A frickin criminal with a 'peace prize', go figure. Just thinking out loud.

#32 SoCalJustice

Mahathir mouths off:

Not content with that, Mahathir calls for peaceful Islam

Dr Mahathir Mohamad told BBC News Online violence had "achieved nothing", for example, for the Palestinians.

He appealed to Muslims worldwide to go back to the "original, true teachings of Islam" and embrace values such as "peace, friendship, brotherhood, and tolerance of people".

Asked about his successor as prime minister, Dr Mahathir said that one important task would be to prevent Islam being used to "subvert people and create hatred".

Link

#51 David E-when has Charles promoted conspiracy theories?

#52 Ben F.-I clicked the link but the site doesn't resolve...maybe there's a typo?

#56

Still works for me (running IE 5.5 on Win2K).

I do know I have been bombarded by TV and movie depictions of joowish suffering all my life. What is it with the victimhood? Nobody suffers like the jews.

You're right. About 60 years ago, just about half the Jews in the entire world were wiped out by a fascist, European regime and some complicit neighboring governments/populations.

They should shut up about it aready, fucking whiners. What cry babies!

Elvis - you're an idiot.

Change your nickname too, don't drag the king's name through the mud.

OT:

Best anti-islam link. Exposes the plagiarism, malicious motivation, deceit, falsehood, hate, perverse lust, self-aggrandisement and general stupidity that went into the documents that muslims deem to be "sacred." There is a lot of unintentional humor. According to one Hadith, if you wake up with a plugged nose, it is because "Shaytan" (satan) was up your nostrils. Nightmare? "Shaytan" did it!

[Link: pub6.ezboard.com...]

There is about 3 hours of reading there. Better than a Tom Clancy book.

Dude, it's not about deeds. If you were a good marxist (shock!horror! i said the m-word), you'd know that property ownership is a capitalist construction. Which means that the way we own the property - like, via deeds and stuff, isn't necessarily the way the Arabs do it.

So what's your point? Go read up some middle-east history and find out how the "joos" got to be in Israel. What do deeds have to do with it?

or maybe i'm just stupid coz I can't work that out.

Not thinking very hard, are you "Elvis"? Think a little harder, in private. When you find that the quality of your thought has improved from its current level, come back and share.
Ben F.-It resolves for me now, I'm checking it out.

The jooooo movies aren't about being victims... they are about being targets. And that hasn't seemed to change yet.

hey el... did you know that the joos were killed off because the british closed off Jewish immigration to Israel in the mid 40s? and since the nazi gov and the rest of europe couldn't send joos to Israel, the only other option those wonderful people seemed to come up with is to kill off a few mill.

elvis reminds me of this Jew hater named localbrew who spams message boards with his anti-Jew rhetoric. I love the use of joo's. Shows real intelligence. (Not)

Ben F.-yes, it's the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement. They're claiming six martyrs and 12 house demolitions in Rafah on Friday...Why hadn't I heard about that? Sounds like they're making it up.
What's really sickening is if you scroll down to the pic of the bloodied baby; the heading says "What's this suckling's crime?" The text says, "This Palestinian child, struck by Occupation Forces fire today southeast of Khan Younis, when the Occupation Forces started firing willy nilly into homes located in and near Hai Manara, which is near the settlement of Miraj (Mirage?), southeast of Khan Younis.The child, Muhammad Al Aqqad, is in critical condition.

I havta say, re: #54, Indonesia have done a decent job of trying the Bali bombers.

Who can be bothered sorting through the rhetoric to find the goods, though. I know I can't.

Not that one of their children being hurt isn't as bad as a Jewish baby being hurt, obviously. Just that they're making shit up (the IDF doesn't shoot willy nilly into homes) and they do much much worse and show no remorse or similar concern for the innocent Jewish babies.

OT:

Great link to material exposing anti-Semitic material ("The Protocols" etc) as fraudulent and warped. You won't find a single source like this anywhere.

[Link: pub6.ezboard.com...]

The author is a pro-Israel Hindu, who abandoned islam after making the Haj, and who is also an Aboriginal American, and an Appelate lawyer who has appeared before the US Supreme Court.

To be fair, our good mate Elvis did say he wanted Arafat killed off. And i've actually read some good pro-Israel pro-joo blogs that use "joo" in their vernacular. It was the way he said it - with such complacency and lack of real regard - which was annoying.

I don't think the "orignal dissent" site linked to above is a libertarian site.

One of the links off of the main page is titled "REAL terror prevention", and lists the following:

No more aid to Israel: This is about the only libertarian thing on here, as it recommends no foreign aid to anyone. However, most libertarians I know don't blame aid to Israel for 9/11, they blame the terrorists.

No more immigration (except for whites). Sorry, libs aren't big on INS, as long as the immigants don't get govt assistance...

No more building permits for mosques: You might want to read up a little more on libertarianism if this one slips by.

Looks more like a site for followers of Pat Buchannan who've slipped their pharmacutical collar.

Yeah ev, not to mention that when they strike down a small Israeli child they revel in that death in that reocurringly despicable way. It sends shivers down my spine, and not in that good way.

Re: Jewish suffering in the media

You guys have got it all wrong. Nobody is as funny as the Jews. It's in our DNA.

I think the Irish got the suffering gene. You ever hear that Danny Boy song? Man. Brings me to tears, every time.

#66 Poly

I havta say, re: #54, Indonesia have done a decent job of trying the Bali bombers.

Mahathir is the outgoing president of Malaysia, though!

#9   NC 

Well, in fairness to them, there is this.

Yeah but the red dot signifying "other post" located in Jerusalem ought to be a blue square, signifying "embassy."

From the Haaretz news ticker:

PA`s Kaddoumi tells Islamic Conference: Armed struggle a must, only way to resolve Israeli-Palestinian conflict

blahblahblahblahblah

Ho hum, I look forward to Kofi's statement of deep concern for these warmongering comments from the PA.

Queen Esther-exactly! Good job.

#73 deja vu

doh! I always get confused, dammit. Commit to memory: Indonesia=Megawati, Malaysia=Mahatir. I'm Australian so they all seem like a blur of oceanic neighbours to me. Strewth.

#72 Peter S.

What about those Irish jokes? Those are funny, man. Potato famine and guinness. All make me laugh. No, I don't know why those two....

... and then the State Department should actually move the US embassy to Israel's capitol.

#67 Evariste--

I think that perhaps one must understand the new Nobel Peace Prize winner's anti-Israeli comments in this context. If you are in that region, and you believe even one tenth of the lies that are spread about Israeli designs and "atrocities," how can you NOT be anti-Israeli and anti-American? (Which is why I blame Arafat for 9/11 even if he had no involvement in the planning or execution of the attack; he was far and away the most important figure in the region stoking the hatred that made it possible.)

Returning to that PIJ site and speaking of stoking hatred, one needs no command of Arabic whatsoever to see the Mohammad al-Dura graphic in the trapezoidal region at the top left of the home page. Typical propaganda. Falsely accuse Israel of genocide in order to incite one's followers to genocide. So evil. So effective.

Israel employs both offensive and defensive measures designed to spare civilians. So what happens? In the Arab world they lie and say that Israel is indiscriminately murdering civilians. And in the West Israel gets hauled before the Security Council for building defensive barriers, bulldozing terrorists' homes, and bombing empty training camps in countries that refuse to make peace with Israel while the same international community responds with indifference or worse to the acts of the mass murderers targetting Israeli men, women, and children.

#77 Poly

No worries, mate!

Map of the muslims' peaceful relations with their neighbors:

[Link: www.albawabaforums.com...]

Heh, and there we were thinking it was the Jews that caused all the wars.....

#21

Aside from the constant Jew-bashing on that site, there were some very good characterisations of neo-conservatives:

Basically, the neocons differ from the Old Right and Nationalist Right on virtually all issues, while only dissenting from the liberal establishment on trivialities. It was once popular to characterize libertarians as "liberals who want lower taxes." I believe that this far more accurately describes neocons. Picture a Clinton presidency with tax cuts for the plutocrats and a more rabid support for Israel, and you have a perfect presidency for the neocons.

Give the guy some credit, he's hit the nail on the head.

The "neo-con" label is completely stupid. People who use it are usually hard-line leftists who want to ostracise mainstream liberals who support Israel or the WoT (and are therefore prepared to occassionally vote for centre-right governments) by placing them in the "conservative" or "rabidly right-wing" camp.

Hooey,

SoCalJustice, you are a bit touchy there, ain't ya? Like I said, I am not anti-jew, I just wonder why we never hear about anyone else's trials and tribulations. Didn't Stalin kill a buttload of jews in his day? I think that sucks, big time. Just as I think Hitler's mass murder of the jews (and didn't he kill a bunch of gypsies) sucks.

Straight out of the box, you called me an idiot. That is rich, coming from you. I have lurked and read some of your comments. Intellectually challenged, with a big fat chip on your shoulder, seems to sum you up nicely. You mistake my tone, unless I have stumbled onto a site for a bunch of poor-me complainers. Not everybody is out to get the jews, as your comments seem to propose.

I have always assumed that yemen and other countries surrounding "Saudi Arabia" have no inside border because the desert there is unbearably hot and barren and no one would risk their life taking the trouble to fence in a line. Israeli's could grow stuff there and be building shopping malls in a few years, but that would be regarded as occuption and terrorism by the arab world.

Elvis, your latest post is a bunch of hooey too.
SoCalJustice is a much more interesting commentator than you are.

Like I said, I am not anti-jew, I just wonder why we never hear about anyone else's trials and tribulations.

I mean, what kind of stupid shit is this? You never hear about native Americans? Slaves? Armenians? Kulaks? Shiites? Kurds? Turks in Germany? Blacks? I mean how much information is there about how many different oppressed peoples, I couldn't begin to list. That was just off the top of my head. It sounds like you have an obsession to prove that Jews control the media, or something. Get the fuck out of here, you're fulla shit.

hah. well said piglet.

The maps intent is to show the immediately adjacent countries - but Western Sahara getting stiffed on the Algeria map blows that theory.

Perhaps Israel was left off the map because there wasn’t enough room to put in all “Israeli occupied” disclaimers that many of the other Middle East maps have.

They did get in the “Israeli occupied” onto the Lebanon map, but forgot that Lebanon is occupied by Syria.

Pakistan and India have a “line of control”.
The India map has an area labeled “Chinese line of control” / “Indian claim”.
Neither the Afghanistan nor Iraq maps indicate “US occupied”.
The Marshall Islands map didn't show their claim to Wake Island.

I scanned a few other map and got bored, need to draw a conclusion -
State does not recognize that Jordan gave up the West Bank, that Egypt gave up Gaza, that Golan Heights must belong to Syria, and the Lebanon border is not defined.

So many other disputed territories throughout the world and the only one that State seems to take sides on is Israel’s borders.

LOL go kick their butt

For "Elvis", et al.
Look, my ancestors were enslaved in Egypt and chased out by the Romans, etc. During the many centuries in between they built and defended Eretz Israel and various manifestations of the kingdom. For centuries after the expulsion by the Romans they were purged by the English, the French, the Crusades, the Inquisition, pogroms, pogroms and more pogroms in Eastern Europe and Russia and expulsions from Muslim lands - and of course - the "Final Solution". Now we have a continuation of the Holocaust by Muslim countries, entities and and terrorist groups. Idiotarians, including self-hating Jews, call Israel - a progressive, social-democratic state with a medical system better than the US, an enlightened legal system, one of the best air forces in the world, renowned symphony orchestras and dance troupes, high tech and biomedical advances that benefit the entire world - a "failed experiment". (Nice to know that my family, my children, are a part of some horrific Mengelian experiment. /sarcasm)

Even after the Holocaust, there were quotas at US universities (my family knows well about this one!), discrimination in the workplace and more hate crimes committed against Jews than against any other ethnic group (including Muslims) in the US according to recent statistics. Education is far from enlightened, while university campuses in the US, Canada and throughout Europe are seething swamps of disinformation, misinformation and overt hatred for anything Israeli or Jewish. Schools and institutions everywhere gloss over the indoctrination to Jew-hatred by bowing and scraping to "politically correct" attitudes to Islam and relations with terrorist-supporting states like Saudi Arabia that have threatened to undo American, Canadian, British, French - you name it - values and history.

Need proof? The Web is chock full of evidence.
Today's "Proof of the Day", check this out:
PA television: Israel will be destroyed in the Jerusalem Post. Then check out the current filth vomiting out of Islamic, Arab, fascist/neonazi, libertarian, leftist and a myriad other Web sites.

Pananoia? Well, after you read over all that history and Web garbage, read the papers (the LA Times and the NY Times will give you plenty perspective!) and listen to the anti-Israel, anti-Jewish diatribes on campuses and on the radio (talk shows can be real eye-openers), then I think you'll understand how Jews and Israelis feel. Paranoia, indeed.

"libertarians are obsessed with Jews too."

um, teacake, care to back that up? as someone who is both, i've never found libertarians to be anywhere NEAR obsessed with Jews, other than the fact that many of them ARE Jewish...

Okay, a couple of things. I had no idea you guys at this site were so sensitive to questions. The use of the term 'joo' was not meant to carry any insult. It was intended to make fun of ignorance, which you are quickly accusing me of; is ironic the right word?

evariste, (what's an 'evariste'?)

Yeah, we get the misery du jour on our nightly news, but don't you think it is disproportional the number of movies and big time hollywood fare that is dedicated to jewish suffering. It just seemed growing up in the US, the only people that were persecuted in the movies or on TV were Jews and blacks.

Let me again state that I am not anti-jew. FWIW, until I see or hear anything to prove without a doubt otherwise, it is my firm belief that the Palestinkians are as full of shit as can possibly be imagined. The double standard shown with regard to dead babies is a classic example. Why would a jewish child be any less precious than an arab child? It looks to me like arab children are killed as a result of the arabs' actions, and jewish kids are killed by design.

I gotta go. The rest of you, talk amoungst yaselves.

well, I sent them an email, asking why Israel is not identified

lets see if they answer

fkn bastards!!

#37 me

Conclusion: ditch the conspiracy theory, the country's name wouldn't fit.

No. It cannot be ditched. Schoolbooks and touristic maps in all of our neighboring countries - even Jordan - do not name Israel.

C.

Elvis has left the building.

Evolution appears to have been disrupted.

The author is a pro-Israel Hindu, who abandoned islam after making the Haj, and who is also an Aboriginal American, and an Appelate lawyer who has appeared before the US Supreme Court.

I cant figure that one out!

lol

#53 Elvis

I still haven't gotten a solid answer to my question of who holds the original deed to Israel/Palestine.

Some would say the Bible.... remember when David insisted on paying for the land he had conquered in Jerusalem? ... and Abraham insisting on paying for the buriel site in Hebron? ...others would say the victors hold the deed. That's generally how it happens the world over.

I do know I have been bombarded by TV and movie depictions of joowish suffering all my life. What is it with the victimhood? Nobody suffers like the jews. You would think from the heavy handed hollywood portrayal of only jewish misery that they were the only people in the world to have ever been done wrong.

What can you do? We're an expressive and creative people. We write books about what we know, and make movies about ourselves. Sometimes, Hollywood even changes the ethnic background of a character in a movie so as to not -again- make it about Jews...

In Eastern Europe, the people miss the Jews (only?) because we created theater there.

C.

I think that perhaps one must understand the new Nobel Peace Prize winner's anti-Israeli comments in this context. If you are in that region, and you believe even one tenth of the lies that are spread about Israeli designs and "atrocities," how can you NOT be anti-Israeli and anti-American?

how about if you have a brain ?

Jaysus Mary and Joseph, Ben...you are like some fkng battery bunny

you keep getting hit with that clue by 4, and nothing happens..

all you can hear is an echo from the void.

People who write "joos" instead of "Jews" have subliminal anti-Jewish feelings. I find "joos" to be just as disrespectful as "Xians" or "Jesus freaks" would be to Christians. It's annoying. Stop it.

I just sent this to the Prez's email, don't know if his handlers will have anything to do with this, though... :

Mr. President,

I was surprised and disgusted to find that, on the Department of State's map of Saudia Arabia, the cartographer was able to label all of the countries surrounding Saudi Arabia save one very conspicuous and suspect elision: [Link: www.state.gov...]

I would like to know what the reasoning behind the exclusion of Israel is on this map. I believe that Israel is a country legitimately recognized by the United States, and I feel that it is extremely insulting for something such as this to appear on a page representative of our country and our ideas for the entire world to see. It is, as well, my fear that this was no accident (how could it be?) but the direct result of a certain middle eastern country's special interests controlling the obviously eager to appease Department of State. If so, this is insidious indeed. After September 11th, I am certain we all know where such "diplomatic" debacles are bound to lead us.

I hope, I truly, sincerely hope that this was indeed an accident, though one would have a very hard time convincing me of such. No matter the prior reasoning, I ask that someone have the courage to correct this disgusting example of political backwardness (or grievous negligence as the case may be). I hope you will attend to this matter with all expedience.

Sincerely,
Shawn Deats

neocon #26

Pat Robertson spoke figuratively when he said nuke the State Dept. And oh, what a hissy-fit the State Dept. got into over his words.

Meanwhile, the State Dept. is in bed with the terrorist sponsoring regimes who really will nuke Israel, New York, and yes, the State Department.

Shut the $@#% State Dept. down and send the employees home. It's the only way we will win the war on terror.

Otherwise, get ready for more Visa Express idiocy.

Evariste # 33

I asked somewhere else and no one answered-so what do Birchers advocate?
Feel free to ignore me again; it's not like Google doesn't exist :-)

John Birch society members are waaaaay right wing. Flouride-in-the-water-is-a-commie-plot right wing.

On the bright side, if you ever want to get out of jury duty, just say you are a member.

I say "Elvis" is VFI just trying to get more attention.

What an abuse of The King's name. Will the real Elvis please stand up?

#92 Elvis

The whole point of showing you the targeting of Jews throughout your childhood is that it serves as an example incase it happens again in history - to any group.

It serves as education to NOT follow any racist propeganda because White Supremacy was and still is very popular in the United States. There are not many other ways to show you why racism is bad other than to show you people getting killed because of it.

The suffering of the Jews and Blacks are to show you what evil this hatred causes on people. It just happens that Jews and Blacks are disproportianlly killed, as well, a lot of this killing is recorded on video!

There's a lot of other cultures that suffer and have even been killed off the face of this Earth, but have failed to be documented properly. Jews are not trying to be victims, they are trying to be strong, and show that all this hate against them cannot break their spirits. However, Arabs are always claiming to be victims and that America is waging war against their religion and that they are suffering and they are claiming oppression constantly - very rich Arabs (like Saeb Erekat, a millionaire and aid to Arafat) is claiming he is oppressed.

Hey, some people even believed Bagdad Bob that American forces never even entered Bagdad until after the war ended.

So what I'm trying to say is, Jews are not asking for special status or appeasement, and barely ask for you to accommodate their religious requirements like to stop serving pork or something like that.
All they ask is you realize their right to live. Say hi to them and try not to kill any of them. Many people find this difficult to do, and get filled with a violent rage when they see someone who is obviously Jewish.

Dress Jewish one day with a skullcap on your head and all, and even in blue and white, (an Israeli flag too if you are daring) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Anyways, Elvis, keep reading this site because there is a lot of information, though it's usually directed at people already familiar with history, but you'll pick up.

The results of the annual corruption index are in. The most corrupt country in the world is...not Nigeria - that's a gimme. Clues below link

[Link: www.transparency.org...]

Clues: 1. Dead Beatle's Concert for... 2. Monsoon-country 3. Founder of State religion was a pedophile. 4. Murdered 2,000,000 Hindus in 1972 breakaway. 5. Renowned for: absolutely nothing. 6. Look like Hindus; eat curry like Hindus; talk like Hindus; watch Hindu Bollywood movies; hate Hindus.

Challenge:

Write in both Israel and the West Bank in the map. Arrows can be used, but the words can only be in the country/pseudocountry themselves or in international waters, but not on the land of another country.

Camel,

Hint 7: Not Pakistan.

I have doubts about a table that ranks Cuba at equal 43rd.

Freedom house rates Bangladesh as partly free.

May I point out that the German carmakers' maps weren't scandalous?

Mercedes ME website

From that link:

"The Regional Center DaimlerChrysler Middle East, located in Jebel Ali, United Arab Emirates, takes care of the following countries: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman,Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

All other countries in the Middle East are directly handled by DaimlerChrysler Overseas in Stuttgart, Germany.

Israel and other countries in the region is directly serviced by Mercedes in Germany, that's why Isreal isn't on this particular map of the ME. It's the same with BMW.

Slow news day, I guess.

While it's true that there's no reason for Lebanon's name to be on the map and not Israel's, this kind of stuff is going into "politcal correctness" territory. So what if they won't put Israel's name on the map? We already knew they're a bunch of anti-Israel tools.

CNN and the BBC are reporting a huge explosion at a Bagdad hotel. The BBC believes it's the CIA HQ and the CNN are reporting that it was full of journalists.

#105
Camel Prophet

Is disdain at the use of the word "Palestine" rather than Palestinian Authority warranted?

Actually, I don't care if it's warranted. Until such time as they manage to deserve their own frigging country, they'll be PA to me.

It seems to be the same with the map from the State Department. Take a look at this:

Larger-scale map of the ME and North Africa

Israell, Lebanon and Jordan have their own box because they are too small on this scale to annotate.

Israel is some other maps, too:

Map of Egypt

Map of Israel

Map of Jordan

Map of Jordan

Map of Syria

That Israel isn't named in the map of Saudi Arabia is an oversight, that's all.

Here is the CIA's map of Saudi Arabia. It has Israel labeled.

Martin G: good point.

I don't see the scandal here either - the Egypt map has Israel clearly labelled, ditto for the Syria map, the Jordan map, and the general area map.

Given that, I really don't get how this one could be intentionally anti-Israel. Besides, seems to me in this one of Saudi Arabia it's just so clearly cramped in the upper-left corner there is really no space for another writing unless you remove the "Med. Sea" one. The focus in this one map is on the SA area anyway. Isn't it a bit excessive to draw outrageous conclusions?

#113 Engineer: yeah, but it's just "Is." and "Leb." and the "Med. Sea" is missing, see... it's not political but visual priorities ;)

Just more tolerant muslim activity going on in Indonesia.
Eight die in Sulawesi attacks

*sigh*

charles, i just have to commend you for taking the time to put this site together and doing such a thorough job of updating it every day. i don't know how you can take it. it is so upsetting to come on here and read ten aggravating (to put it mildly) articles at a time, sometimes i don't come to the site for days on end b/c it pisses me off so much how evil the world can be. i get so angry reading the articles you post, yet i come here b/c i need to recognize the reality of the world and the importance of staying informed.

thank you so much for taking the time and energy to do this...i really appreciate your efforts and admire your ability to read and comment on the hate on a daily basis without going insane.

The Saudi Network shows Israel, but the World Audit Website uses the same map as Charles posted. The Israeli-free map also shows up on World Switch.com. Then there is the Jurist Legal Intelligence Website which uses the same map.

I could go on, but I get the feeling this is one map that people just copy off the net and stick on their Websites without looking too carefully.

meredithv, ya know he has a tip jar, right? ;)

It serves as education to NOT follow any racist propeganda because White Supremacy was and still is very popular in the United States. There are not many other ways to show you why racism is bad other than to show you people getting killed because of it.

Yeah, like racism is a purely White thing.

And why should white people in Anglo-Saxon countries be constantly suspected of being one David Duke colomn of being rabid Nazis? Weren't we the ones fighting AGAINST the Germans in both World Wars?

It's very strange that you feel justified in asserting that Anglo-Saxon children should be bombarded with these images from early childhood - what gives you the right to assume the role of social engineer and condition them to your liking?

I meant "one David Duke column away from becoming rabid Nazis"

Can't type. Too late.

hey, if you look at the other maps for jordan, egypt, etc, they all list israel. could be they thought it was to small/close to edge.. i'm serious, search: "maps [country]" on the website. it's just that one map.

it IS possible, that's all I am saying.

(#84) Elvis:

Well, straight out of the box you said something idiotic. The shoe fits.

Still besmirching the king too, I see.

Oh well, at least he's not alive to see it.

As for your intellectually challenged comment, you write:

Like I said, I am not anti-jew, I just wonder why we never hear about anyone else's trials and tribulations.

I think that statmenent can pretty much stand by itself to demonstrate a mental challenge.

Cheers.

we dont want to jump to conclusions, peoples...

please don't seethe and foam at the mouth like moonbats do with with their rabid speculation and tale-weaving...

It starts sounding like nut-ball conspiracy theory babblings... cut that shit out, yo :P makes us all look bad!

Elvis, for a good background source on ME history you can read Peters book: From Time Immemorial. It's thick and the print's small, but it is an easy read.

Relax everyone! I have created a new map for the State Department. They can feel free to use it at no charge.

New map of "Saudi Arabia"

The State Department "goes native" in its maps.

Thus the map of Syria apparently shows that Israel has ceded the Golan Heights to Syria. The boundary that the map shows is the 1949 Armistice Line -- no later wars occurred, and there is no Israeli possession of the Golan Heights according to the State Department map of Syria.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

William Burns feigns indignation:

The Homeland of the Jewish people is readily identifiable on the map. It begins with Med... and ends in Sea.

/US State "Can't you Jooos take a joke?" department

OT: New islamist forum here: [Link: www.arcis.co.uk...]

Looking at the map, one is struck once again by how huge the Arab entities are compared to Israel, how they dwarf this sliver of land clinging to the sea. How frustrating, how humiliating it must be for the Arab hoardes that they have not been able to prevail over these measly few acres. No wonder they aim to destroy this symbol of their own failure to confront and thrive in the modern world.

#131 -- raj  10/12/2003 06:31AM PST

Can we do both Raj? Can we please please please. With your blessing of course. Can't we bitch and write at the same time? Or is that wrong somehow? Or is it that you have some other problem?

On a related note...Oklahoma wiped Texas off the map yesterday.

(howdy Ed, AG, et al!)

The State Department maps for countries other than Saudi Arabia show Israel.

This may be taken as a recognition that Saudi Arabia is at the forefront of the death-to-Israel movement. Or that they are the ones most embarassed by Israel's existence. Or that they are the ones that the State Department is keen about not offending.

"The Arab natiions should sacrifice up to 10 million of their 50 million people, if necessary to wipe out Israel... Israel to the Arab world is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it, just like a cancer." -- Saud ibn Abdul Aziz, King of Saudi Arabia, Associated Press, January 9, 1954.

That is apparently still the indoctrination that the Wahhabi clerical infrastructure is imparting to the people of the Saudi-Wahhabi entity.

#131 raj
It appears that you are either a schmuck or you work for the State Department. Or am I repeating myself?

OT

An interesting little tidbit that apparently rendered even Reuters incapable of applying an anti-Jew, pro-Moslem spin:

French girls fight Muslim-garb ban

October 12, 2003 -- PARIS - The Jewish father of two teenage girls banned from their French school for wearing traditional Muslim headscarves has vowed to appeal.

Can't you just see a Moslem father fighting for his boys' right to wear yarmulkes to school? No? You can't?

Oh.

Freakyboy

Right back at ya...

It was devastating and embarrasing for the state of TX.

#137 the Angry AG

Are they getting the tar and feathers ready for Mack?

Andjam, Martin G., zaza, p1LL,

All of you are missing the point. See evariste #6, Charles #12. State has the biggest appeasement complex w/r/t the Saudi entity, not Syria, not Egypt, and not Lebanon. Those other maps only prove that to be the case. It's an unlikely thing for every other country on every other map to be labelled, but they only couldn't find space on this one map for "Israel". As has been noted above, "Israel" is one letter less then "Lebanon" (which also uses bigger letters) and a much bigger territory. Ceterus paribus, we'd expect Israel to be on some maps were Lebanon isn't - which isn't the case; again, combining this with the general knowledge of State being anti-Israel and pro-Saudi, and we realize that this is probably not unintentional.

Recall that State refuses to post Jews in the Saudi entity - not because the Saudis asked them to, but because they choose to do so.

raj sez:

Hey, if the goofball who runs this site were to both bitch about this AND email the state department about the map, that might be an improvement.

And you know that the "goofball" who runs this site hasn't done that, because before you started making your condemnations you email him first for conformation that he hadn't. Right?

Hypocrite.

Oh, and by the way, we just don't bash Arab terrorists, but all terrorists, regardless of nationality, color, race or religion.

Dr. Jal Hampson
You map is simply splendid! Congratulations!

For all the State Department rationalizers both here and elsewhere, follow these simple steps in order to see the truth.
!. Take blinder off your eyes-
2. Then rub sleep from your eyes. (it has been a long slumber!)
3. If head is in the sand, remove head. Spit sand from your mouth. Head in the sand syndrome is not only bad for ones posture but for your 'state' of mind ; - ))

BTW: A daily dose of reality never hurt anyone.

The state department is made up of lying, two faced appeasers. Their behavior of kissing ass by means of pandering is sick and dangerous. While at the same time, punishing innocent victims is morally repugnant.
This is the legacy they are hell bent on leaving the world. Unless matters of 'state' are seriously changed things will get lots worse before they can get even a little better.

#130 scaramouche

Nail right on the head, flush into the wall with one stroke

dgd

140 Ariel
Right on the money!

Looks like the Iraqi police fired on that suicide car bomb as it ran a checkpoint, and managed to make it blow up before it got to it's target. Still killed 6 people, but it probably would have killed a lot more if it had been able to reach the hotel.

#142  -- selpaw  10/12/2003 08:15AM PST

Dr. Jal Hampson
You map is simply splendid! Congratulations!

Thank you Selpaw.

Dr. Jal Hampson....I missed the 'r' but you got the point!

How about a huge bomb right in the center of saudi arabia and then re-name it, 'parking lot?'

Somewhat OT:

While googling for info on how State sponsors/funds/endorses groups who advocate for the Pals, I came across this article on USAID and PASSIA.

Anyone know if this is still going on, i.e., are American taxpayers still funding Pal propaganda and lobbying efforts?

p.s. Note the "advice" provided to PASSIA by Eric Weiner of NPR and Lyse Doucete of the BBC.

#140 Ariel
You are exactly right.
The series of State Department maps reveals, or confirms, that the focus of State's appeasement policy is the appeasement of Saudi Arabia.

Thank you, Charles, for providing this lead that revealed the focus of State Department appeasement.

I do appreciate LGF. It really makes my day.

And the information that is obtained here is not found in the general media.

If the raj a**hole doesn't like it, it is free to look elsewhere.

I have yet to see a post that criticizes the Israeli government for its policies in regards settlments in the occupied/disputed territories.

Ok.

I hereby condemn the Israeli government for the lack of settlements in the disputed territories.

#93 ploome

lets see if they answer

Yah, when hell freezes over. The state department answers to NO ONE!

fkn bastards!!

f*cking ass licking, arab lovin, Jew hating bastards, all!!

148 raj

Regardless, it's fairly clear that this web site is nothing more than a bash-the-arabs site.

You don't know what you are talking about!
But then until you allow yourself to be de-programmed you will continue to think that way.

Dr. Jal Hampson - love the parking sign.

#22 Teacake
> Libertarians are obsessed with

On what do you base this? Certainly I nor any of the other libertarians who post here could have given you this idea.

If you don't know much about libertrian philosophy or the party, then you might want to visit their actual website, rather than assuming that the conservative site that you came across represents libertarians (who, by the way, don't consider ourselves to be "conservatives" of any kind.)
[Link: www.lp.org...]

This is really outrageous; some of you may remember the BMW and Mercedes dealership maps that caused a huge scandal.

I just took a look at the BMW map - it makes no sense whatsoever. "Palestine" seems to be the top third of Israel.

151 Colt

I hereby condemn the Israeli government for the lack of settlements in the disputed territories.

'Lack of,' for sure.
The best part of being a Jew is that we want to take the world over! Won't be happy until that day comes ; - )) Did you check out Dr. Jal Hampson's map?

#157 selpaw

LOL!

Yeah, I had a look. I'd have preferred "New Tel Aviv" where Mecca was, though :-)

As usual Dick, you're a dick. Did you follow the link provided above my post? If so you would see that I was being rather sarcastic. Anyone can call themselves libertarians... as does a local radio host in my town, who for some odd reason is obsessed with Israel.

-------
For another map

I have not been officially affiliated with the Libertarian party for I can't remember how long.
I don't even bother reading libertarian websites.
I DO consider myself libertarian in that I try to operate from one of the fundamental premises of the 60s - 70s resurgence of libertarian philosophy:

"No individual, group of individuals or government has the right to initiate the aggressive use of force against any other individual, group of individuals or government."

Like the ancient Chinese game of Go, that brief statement takes minutes to learn & a lifetime to master.

#156 Colt

[Link: www.israelnewsagency.com...]

look at the drop down menu, for middle east dealerships

[Link: www.bmw-me.com...]

(no Israel) but relax, they have a dealership in
[Link: www.bmw-me.com...]

Country name: Palestine_Westbank
Dealer name: Palestine Automotive & Trading Co
Tel: +970 2 2955130
Fax: +970 2 2956513/4
Email: bmw_patc@palnet.com

[Link: www.bmw.com.sa...]

We welcome you to BMW Saudi Arabia.

Israel is NOT in the Middle East section..Israel seems to have its own site...which seems to be ONLY in Hebrew, not in English like all the other ME sites

[Link: www.bmw.co.il...]

......hypocrites...

Colt, I couldnt find a map with Israel on it...would you please post the one you refer?

In response to Ariel (and selpaw) - but the State Department choices and policies are not the point here, at least not until you can discard all other logical and simple explanation as to why the name of Israel, whose borders are nonetheless clearly drawn, doesn't appear in that tiny corner of that one particular map which happens to be of SA.

Seems quite a stretch to me to infer political choices have been made even in drawing a simple map, that's all.

Maybe you're right and even this is a sign of Saudi appeasement; I just tend to doubt that, because there seems to me to be a much more obvious and logical motive, that immediately jumps to the eye - based solely on the maps themselves, nothing else.

Ariel - when you say "State has the biggest appeasement complex w/r/t the Saudi entity, not Syria, not Egypt, and not Lebanon. Those other maps only prove that to be the case" - no, they don't "prove" that, not unquestionably, that does sound to me like reading way too much into it. Regardless of the State Dept's stand on Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc. Seems a lot more logical to conclude it's on all other maps but this one simply because there is more space on other maps than on this, where Israel's borders appear only in that one top corner and the "Med. Sea" covers the space where the writing should have been.

The borders are there.

The Islamic maps where Israel is not shown do not even show the borders. I genuinely don't get how any such intention can be inferred here.

If there'd been a giant "PALESTINE" written all over the place, no borders drawn, no Israel in any other map, then of course it would have been unmistakable. As it is, perhaps it's all a lot more trivial than you make it, no? Just perhaps.

Selpaw - again, the choices and decisions and statements of the State Dept are another matter, at least, for me, I'm not even discussing that here. So there's no "rationalising" or "having blinders on", please. I'd think there's been a lot more evident and overtly political manifestations of the State political positions, like those also referred to in many other posts by Charles. But this? As if the Saudis gave a toss about such a ridiculous tiny thing as a map on the State website. They do know the US is Israel's main ally as well as theirs, don't they? what possible appeasement could there be in something as tiny as this?

I don't know, maybe State Dept. is literally that insanely pro-Saudi that they'd take such ridiculous pains over such minuscule details just to please their buddies down to the tiniest pixel, but I don't see how people should be qualified as delusional or blind just because they are not ready to jump ahead and see some unmistakable evidence of anti-Israel slant and Saudi asskissing in this one particular case.

161 ploome
I don't know why they need those dealerships, anyway.
Almost every car on the streets are stolen!

Zaza, regarding

but the State Department choices and policies are not the point here, at least not until you can discard all other logical and simple explanation as to why the name of Israel, whose borders are nonetheless clearly drawn, doesn't appear in that tiny corner of that one particular map which happens to be of SA.

perhaps you could help us, and suggest all other logical and simple explanation as to why the name of Israel is omitted?

thanks

18:34 UN estimates up to 1,500 Palestinians left homeless by IDF raid in Rafah refugee camp in the Gaza Strip

More mythmaking in progress.

#161 ploome

Sorry, shoulda been clearer. Here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

what BMW has done, it seems, is to eliminate the map..there are no maps to be seen,

only this drop down menu, and

Israel is again omitted.

Aaron.....see this bit of detective work..

[Link: www.israelnewsagency.com...]

Colt.

thats a old map

it is no longer on the BMW web site

I thought you had a current map

#168 ploome

Again, I shoulda made that clear. Sorry for wasting your time.

I understand that a Saudi representative visited the same hotel on Sept. 10, 2001, that a group of the 9/11 hijackers was staying at.

I can think of two theories for this:

(1) Entirely coincidental

(2) The Saudi representative was there
(a) to convey the blessings of the royal family, and of the imam of the Grand Mosque of Mecca, on the mujahadeen
(b) to promise that their families would be amply rewarded for this sacrifice for Allah
(c) to warn them of grave danger to their families if the Saudi connection is revealed by any of them.

I trust that the State Department is trying to get to the bottom of this, to find out which of these theories (or some other theory) is correct.

But I won't hold my breath.

colt,

Sorry for wasting your time.

don't be silly....LOL

I just thought I misunderstood

Here is an article on the scandal of US-Saudi relations.
[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

This scandal may have no bearing on State's incredible appeasment policy toward the Saudis. Or then again it might.

#164 ploome: I think I've already bored you with my impressions twice already

- in #114: seems to me in this one of Saudi Arabia it's just so clearly cramped in the upper-left corner there is really no space for another writing unless you remove the "Med. Sea" one. The focus in this one map is on the SA area anyway.

- and #162 Seems a lot more logical to conclude it's on all other maps but this one simply because there is more space on other maps than on this, where Israel's borders appear only in that one top corner and the "Med. Sea" covers the space where the writing should have been. etc.

Which might well be a whole lot of nonsense, of course.

I just don't see this unmistakable, intentional omission for political reasons. I find that conclusion far-fetched.

What amazing service would it possibly be to the Saudis if the name, not the borders, of Israel are left out of that corner of that map, and that only? why? what is it to them and to State? Maybe it's entirely my fault, but I'm unable to comprehend what form of appeasement this would be evidence of, in the specific.

zaza,

I just don't see this unmistakable, intentional omission for political reasons. I find that conclusion far-fetched.

ah...have you considered that Saudi doesn't recognize Israel, or a Jewish State?

and maybe include into your conclusion that BMW and Mercedes also managed to avoid including Israel on their list of Middle East countries.

or the fact the Israel is excluded from the ME group in the UN?

You wouldn't think its a pattern or anything like that?

you think I am reading too much into this?

#171 ploome

Just bein' polite ;-)

zaza....

you dont think the State Dept would disrespect Israel, because of Saudi Arabia?

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

Consider two symbolic moments in the U.S.-Saudi relationship involving a visit by one leader to the other's country. In November 1990, President George H.W. Bush went to the Persian Gulf region with his wife and top congressional leaders at Thanksgiving time to visit the 400,000 troops gathered in Saudi Arabia, whom he sent there to protect that country from an Iraqi invasion. When the Saudi authorities learned that the President intended to say grace before a festive Thanksgiving dinner, they remonstrated; Saudi Arabia knows only one religion, they said, and that is Islam. Bush acceded, and he and his entourage instead celebrated the holiday on the U.S.S. Durham, an amphibious cargo ship sitting in international waters.

In April 2002, as Crown Prince Abdallah of Saudi Arabia, the country's effective ruler, was about to travel across Texas to visit President George W. Bush, an advance group talked to the airport manager in Waco (the airport serving the President's ranch in Crawford) "and told him they did not want any females on the ramp and also said there should not be any females talking to the airplane."[2] The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) at Waco complied with this request and passed it to three other FAA stations on the crown prince's route, which also complied.

Then, when queried about this matter, both the FAA and the State Department joined the Saudi foreign minister in flat-out denying that there ever was a Saudi request for male-only controllers.

........maybe I am reading too much into Saudi influence and power..?

Saudi doesnt mind if Christians DIE DEFENDING FUCKING SAUDI ASSES, but will get OFFENDED AND HUMILIATED if those same Christians say Grace before meals in Arabia..........and contaminate Islam and Arabia?

....feh

re #170, here is a link
[Link: 209.157.64.200...]

The hijackers and the Saudi official were both staying at the Mariott in Herndon, on the night before the hijacking.
Herndon, VA, is where there have been recent arrests allegedly related to terrorism.

Zaza,

What amazing service would it possibly be to the Saudis if the name, not the borders, of Israel are left out of that corner of that map, and that only? why? what is it to them and to State? Maybe it's entirely my fault, but I'm unable to comprehend what form of appeasement this would be evidence of, in the specific.

it is to your credit, that you cant comprehend, the total and minute vicious tactics, the Saudis and Arabs employ to destroy the reputation and existance of Israel.(i think)

ploome

Not to mention that Saudi military officials are reported to have stood up and cheered when they heard the news of Iraqi scuds landing on Israel during the Gulf War (much to the chagrin of the US officials in the same room).

Zaza, you should really read this

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

Small-Scale Obsequiousness

nothing.....no indignity is too small to be visited on non muslims, and especially Israelis and Jews.

179 Henry S.

yes, exactly

link to #179 because I know you'll ask ;)

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

As regards the fracture of the coalition, this was a serious concern. When the initial Iraqi Scuds hit Tel Aviv, the Saudi officers in the coalition command post applauded and cheered, shouting "Allah Akbar!" When asked why they were cheering, they explained that the Israelis were the real enemy and that if the Israeli Air Force retaliated, then the Saudis would assist the Iraqis in a war against Israel, and address the Iraqi "issue" at a later time.

#165 lord vetinari

You have to count the ratholes.

Bad me.

#182 Henry S.

When asked why they were cheering, they explained that the Israelis were the real enemy and that if the Israeli Air Force retaliated, then the Saudis would assist the Iraqis in a war against Israel, and address the Iraqi "issue" at a later time.

The one thing that unites the Arab world.

Colt

Arab/Muslim extermination logic:

Jews ---> Christians ---> competing Arab tribes

you dont think the State Dept would disrespect Israel, because of Saudi Arabia?

ploome: don't get me wrong, that's *not* what I'm discussing here - I just don't see how this one specific instance would be explicit intentional evidence of that Saudi asskissing to the detriment of Israel.

I'm not telling you you're reading too much into OTHER instances of that, which are quite clear. I'm telling you, it seems to me this is so minute a thing, that I don't even understand what benefit the Saudis would get from it; and it seems more logical and obvious to me that it's a purely trivial matter of the name not fitting in there. I find it really hard to draw other conclusions on this.

Even considering the Saudis don't recognise the state of Israel, yes (other Islamic countries don't either, right?).

You do have a good point there, I know, but, to see that kind of intention here does sound too far-fetched to me. Israel is on the map anyway. It's on all other maps with the name as well, even with SA...

All the rest, how the State Dept deals with the Saudis etc. is *not* in discussion for me here. I'm just disagreeing with this map being 100% unquestionable evidence of them pissing all over Israel for the sake of the Saudis.

My impression only, for what it's worth.

Apologies for being so repetitive, I really don't mean to be confrontational or anything or start an argument, you know, I'm not here telling you or Charles or Ariel etc. that you're fools or something for drawing those conclusions - I certainly can see that you do have good reasons, from all those other instances, to infer the worst. But those are other, overt cases... When I look at this map thing, to me the trivial non-political explanation makes more sense, at least on a first impression, because it does sound to me like they'd really go insanely out of their way to appease the Saudis in such manner.

I'm not completely discarding your and Charles' conclusions on this. I just find them hard to believe for this one case. It'd be really mad...

#185 Henry S.

Yes and no. I think the Yahood-slaying unites in ways Christian-slaying cannot.

zaza.....

It'd be really mad...

Bless you girl,LOL

when you realize they are "mad'..insane, you will have become a true lizaroid

Zaza.....they are insane!!

SoCal Justice:

Still besmirching the king too, I see. Oh well, at least he's not alive to see it.

Come on, everybody knows the King didn't die. Ever catch a glimpse of an Elvis impersonator in Vegas that seemed just a little too good?

ok, ploome, I'm getting your point about "nothing.....no indignity is too small to be visited on non muslims, and especially Israelis and Jews" - you're right, and I guess I am looking at this from purely rational perspective which is obviously not suited for that context!

But you see, it's not that I would put the intentional map omission past the Saudis, or Arabs, or Muslims in general, it's that I can't imagine this sort of subservience even in such details going on at the USA State Department. Not cos of defensiveness for them, well, maybe, in a sense... I don't know how to put it, but, to make it short: even as an outsider, I mean, non-American, I don't think I'm ready to comprehend and accept that a State Dept. of the USA (not the EU commission, or a European foreign minister!), could be so on their knees to Arabs that they would even go as far as purposefully leave out Israel's name from the SA map not to "offend" them. (Actually, I can't even picture SA asking them specifically not to put Israel on the map...)

Paradoxically, I can sort of understand (not appreciate, just, observe) some of the reasons for the whole sorry appeasement game in politics. But over something like this, wow, it'd be soo insane... and scary.

For some reason I can't get to the Daniel Pipes article (times out). The other bit you mention in #176 is mad and enraging enough. Ugh.

So, well, I'm starting to consider the voluntary map omission as something more likely than I'd have thought.

Thanks for your patience, ploome, really - just so it's clear, I never put in doubt that the Saudis and all other filthy rich Arab big suits have a huge influence. That they'd have it over something like this... that's what I have trouble picturing. Which doesn't mean it couldn't happen or hasn't happened, indeed.

zaza.....the muslim/arab obsession with supremacy and humiliating others is classic, and historical, and very well described here....

The Status of Jews and Christians in Muslim Lands, 1772 CE

"............ It is wrong to greet them even with a simple 'how-do-you-do'; to serve them, even for wages, at the baths or in what relates to their riding animals; and it is forbidden to accept anything from their hand, for that would be an act of debasement by the faithful. They are forbidden while going through the streets to ape the manners of the Muslims, and still less those of the cities of the religion. They shall only walk single-file, and in narrow lanes they must withdraw even more into the most cramped part of the road."

"One may read that which follows in Bukhari and Muslim [religious authorities of the ninth century]: 'Jews and Christians shall never begin a greeting; if you encounter one of them on the road, push him into the narrowest and tightest spot.' The absence of every mark of consideration toward them is obligatory for us; we ought never to give them the place of honor in an assembly when a Muslim is present. This is in order to humble them and to honor the true believers."

Zaza..nothing has changed, except now this attitude and treatment is denied by muslims.

#188 ploome: heh heh... ok, ok, I get it :)

but not the US... you know? This is the kind of shit I'd expect from Bruxelles, or even Rome, not Washington! it kind of shatters my points of reference to accept that the Saudis have even 1/10th of one single department of the US government sooo much by the cojones that it gets to this totally mad level of fixing maps on the website... it's depressing...

tell me some good news now, come on

Zaza, this is the Pipes link

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

and here is a fabulous resource...I LOVE original sources....

[Link: www.fordham.edu...]

fabulous stuff...

nothing has changed, except now this attitude and treatment is denied by muslims.

but ploome, that's definitely not the good news I was asking for!

------
This is not really related, but somehow about that feeling of surreal when hearing about the levels of insanity that Islamic "traditions" can get to - no matter how much I've heard it all before, it's still baffling... earlier today I was watching a bit of BBC News, and they have this programme called "Arab World Direct", it was from Dubai and they touched on the topic of marriages, and the proposal of a ban for marriages with foreigners (for men, cos for women it's already banned to marry foreigners! obviously!). They invited six girls from the Dubai Women's college and six young men from the Dubai Men's college, which was hailed as a very rare thing to happen, young men and women getting together. You see this hugely rich and modern city with wonderful shopping malls and hotels and spas and all, and they have separate schools for girls and boys like in the Afghan mountains. These huge luxurious shopping malls full of people buying designer clothes and jewels and eating in posh restaurants, and the women strolling inside are all in burkas. Anyway, the really mad thing was the debate between the girls and boys. All nicely dressed and looking fine, even if they all basically dressed the same - the girls in long black robes and veils - not burkas, their faces were not covered, one even had a designer hijab with optical prints - the boys with the white long caftans (rather nice actually), sitting in some posh hotel lobby, talking very shily and politely about arranged marriages and how expensive it is to buy UEA girls - sorry, marry, not buy... Freudian lapse... - cos the ceremonies required there are huge and cost too much, so they prefer to marry foreigners. And that's the only reason they're against the ban! The host said "well, but perhaps when everyone will consider marriage more like a union of two individuals than talk about the nitty gritty of money involved... there can be some progress...", but it was like a glimpse from an alternate reality. The most ballsy a girl got was to tell the boys it's only fair they too should be banned from marrying foreigners. It was so unreal. I don't know how they can so uncritically buy into that kind of system. This wasn't the kids of some sheep farmer in Kazhakistan. This was well-educated college students with money and hi-tech gadgets and cars and speaking perfect English, some of them even with American accents... I can't picture growing up like that in that kind of society and accepting it all *as is*, to the point you consider a ban on marrying foreigners *normal* or even desirable.

How can young people *not* want to change all that?

#193 ploome, thanks again for the links - that Medieval Sourcebook page looks like very interesting stuff.

I'm reading the Pipes article now. I'd heard of many things, but not that American women serving in the army had to wear the black robe when leaving the base!

It's all very very insane, indeed...

The map merely illustrates the State Dept. vision of the way thing could and should be.

If we could all pitch in and show a bit more support for Powellsky and Condy.....these dreams could become a reality.

ashan 10/12/2003 01:40AM PST People who write "joos" instead of "Jews" have subliminal anti-Jewish feelings. I find "joos" to be just as disrespectful as "Xians" or "Jesus freaks" would be to Christians. It's annoying. Stop it.

You lifted that from a Woody Allen film didn't you?

["Joo want something to drink?"--"Would Joo like to dance?" etc]

I have assumed that anyone visiting this site would recognize JOOOOOS as being satirical, if you have had the opportunity of meeting some REAL antisemite racist knownothing lunkheads like I have you might think that If you can't kill them you have to make fun of them and their stupidity.

Henry--128 Isn't that Montgomery Burns---DOH!

I think a lot of folks forget that there was the Palestine Mandate. And there were accords and the early settlers
in the twenties and thirites were collecting money to buy land in Palestine--Anyway part of the Ottoman empire-well, that is what they called it then.. Actually I think the owners of these large tracts of land were absentee and thoguht the had the biggest suckers on the planet. And those turks or whoever sold these tracts of desert and the Jewish people bought it far and sqaure from what I read. And it was before WWII and the British Empire was running it. Supposedly from what I read, the Prime Minister was petitioned by the local Caliphate to slow down the purchases of land.
I don't know the links but it should be available. If they bought it from the Ottoman land owners , then it is their land.It should be on the map. Israel went to the trouble for declaring borders and having a monetary unit and a constitution and --a country. So it should be named.

Most people interested in the ME issue..get it about the State Dept. Well...its up to everyone to find out just how LONG this has been going on in one form or another. Stephen Emerson's first book talks about some of it. "The American House of Saud"...and John Loftus talks about it. a bit. Should be many other books about the history of State and the Joooossss...This is an UGLY, but powerful Community of Jew Haters and *always has been. This is NOT an overstatement --unfortunately.

Included in this "Diplomatic Community" in America and World Wide, is the Foreign Press, which, as a community holds the SAME Jewish Antagonistic ideas. (in case you haven't noticed.... many of you HAVE noticed) This Anti Jewish CLIMATE of the Diplomatic Community (including State and Intelligence Agencies) and the Foreign Press is powerful, powerful enough to have sucessfully transmitted to Americas Govnt leaders the "story" that there was NOT all that much danger to Jews before WW2, even tho **they knew better, AND is having the same influence over our Elected Leaders now. Just like before, these Diplomatic Elites and their paid PR people peddle the same antiJewish (make that Israel as well) crap and minimize the danger to Jews and Israel..AND AMERICA...while at the same time talking UP the Islamic World by trying to encapsolate the "terrorists" and portray them as "only a tiny minority of Islam" the Rest of Islam of course they portrayas only wanting PEEAACCEEE.

More things change...Boy ----do they remain the same. The players in State havent really changed. If it isnt the SAME players (most finally have died) its their: Younger friends, trainees, and associates ,their Children, their other Family Members..Same old thing...all going to school together,lots married to each other, lots working in allied businesses and firms which funnel each other back and forth...inside Govnt Agencies and outside Businesses..Good..G-d is this a CORRUPT set of affairs.. THIS is YOUR State Dept.

There is another peculiarity in the series of State Department maps. The map of the state of Israel is the only one that lacks the symbol of a star-in-a-circle, to show the location of the state's capital city (the location of most of its government).
[Link: www.state.gov...]

While Israel's government is mainly located in Jerusalem, the State Department map of Israel refuses to show this.

In the fact sheet about Israel, the State Department does mention that Israel has chosen Jerusalem as its capital, but there is an asterisk pointing out that the US embassy is in Tel Aviv. The State Department, however, did not consider it appropriate to mention that the US Congress has enacted legislation to move the US embassy to Jerusalem unless there are national security reasons to prevent this.

Anyhow, the State Department's map of Israel just omits all this, by refusing to indicate Israel's capital.

re #202, the omission of Israel's capital was not an accident, IMO, any more than the omission of Israel from the Saudi map was an accident. It's primarily appeasement. An attempt not to offend the states that really matter to the State Department.

Clarification on the Pat Robertson comment back in #26 & #101.

Pat Robertson did not say that the State Dept should be nuked. During an interview with Joel Mowbray "I read your book," Robertson told Mowbray. "When you get through, you say, 'If I could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom, I think that's the answer' and you say, 'We've got to blow that thing up.' I mean, is it as bad as you say?" He was asking the author a question about the book, with a quote from the book.

Damn LLL. And FOX even pooched the story.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

#204

Mobray may have said something to the effect of "We need to blow the state department up" but he was obviously using a figure of speech. Robertson suggested sneaking a nuclear device in to Washington and blowing the whole place to bits. I detect no fiqure of speech coming from Robertson's mouth.

'If I could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom, I think that's the answer'

Plus Robertson has a history of suggesting harm come to those he doesn't like. Remeber him suggesting a hurricane would turn and hit the Orlando area because Disney gives its gay employees the same rights as straight ones? Ironicly Isabel recently smacked the Hampton Roads area, Robertson's home.

Knowing Robertson's history its pretty safe to say he was serious, remember he is a nut.

This site has a history of reading way too much into things.

I remeber the post about Alan Dersowitz's (sp?) book "A Case for Israel". The people running this site thought the negative comments on Amazon.com were part of some Arab media conspiracy. If a person has any experience with Amazon they know all books dealing with politics get the exact same response. How come LGF didn't come out and denounce Amazon's anti-semitism when conservatives flooded Amazon with poor reviews of Al Franken's book, he is a jew after all.

This map thing is another example. THE NAMES WOULDN'T FIT!

Drew, I'm not sure just how familiar you are with the state department and its role in the American ME policy, but I'm sure you should be aware that SD is no friend of Israel. Viewed in this context, it seems suspicious that the only country not named is Israel.

As far as "reading to much into things"... well some probably do. I have no idea what thread you are referring to, but I do know that a lot of people formed this impression about LGF. What they discount is that conspiracies do exist, and that the terrorists are, by definition, conspirators.

Drew, you're full of shit. "People" don't run this site, one person does, and commenting on the anti-Semitism that is prevalent on Amazon.com's reviews is hardly equivalent to anyone talking about "Arab media conspiracies". Please read more carefully in future.

This map thing is another example. THE NAMES WOULDN'T FIT!

Way to go for the lamest explanation so far.

Drew doesn't notice, Lebanon 'doesn't fit in ' either..

LOL

LOL.

Don't know if anyone'll see this, but... that wasn't the "middle east map." That was the map of saudi arabia. The map on the "Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs" page does indeed show Israel; in fact, it even goes so far as to magnify it. Israel is labeled on every other map in that section in which it shows up. Why didn't they label it here? Got me, but this is hardly proof of anti-israel animus.

#202 EE: you got good sight there. Given that too, well, it is looking to me more and more likely that this was intentional. I checked the map of Italy just for curiosity, well, I know it is irrelevant but they do show even Liechtenstein, "Liecht.", in a tiny tiny tiny corner near Switzerland. All other maps seem to show names of all the tiniest country bits in the tiniest corners, either with abbreviations or not. They did fit in an "Is." and "Leb." in the Jordan one, could have well done the same here....

After all, if you move the "Jordan" label a bit to the top-right, and add "Israel" across the lowest part of Israel, Jordan and the Egypt bit, with a pointer to the actual territory, it fits very nicely below the "Med. Sea" words. Bah?

Perhaps this is the spot for a link to OpinionJournal's piece on How the U.S. State Department Became Saudi Arabia's prison bitch.

The money, the favors, and State's affinity for Saudi elites over the decades have all helped contribute to the "special relationship" between State and the House of Saud. Notes Hudson Institute senior fellow Laurent Murawiec, "This is a relationship that has been cemented by 40 years of money, power, and political favors that goes much deeper than most people realize."

#213

Two money quotes from that piece:

From the Visa Express application form,

Are you a member of a terrorist organization? (Answering 'yes' will not necessarily trigger a refusal)

And one State Department diploweenie's view of the Magic Kingdom:

Mr. Furey, in his e-mail, summed up his idealized vision of Saudi Arabia quite succinctly: "This place really is a wonderland."

# 206 what do Amazon reviews have to do with this? The Amazon review system is subject to partisan and activist review flooding campaigns from every side of the fence? It's a shame they don't have much criteria for those posting reviews.

I think Charles proved Israel could fit in quite fine. If they bothered to draw it, they can bother to label it. Lebanon is tiny too and its letters are more than I-S-R-A-E-L so you really have no argument

Ralph Peters recently ran an article petitioning Bush not to allow Turkish troops in Iraq (to mistreat the Kurds) and to stop coddling the Saudis (AGREED)

also worth a read
[Link: www.townhall.com...]

EMAIL STATE!

[Link: contact-us.state.gov...]

[Link: contact-us.state.gov...]

..letter I sent to State

[Link: www.state.gov...]

Dear Sirs:

Regarding the above referenced map from the State Department Saudi Arabia site. Just a note to inform you, somehow Israel has been omitted from the map. I am sure 'your friends and benefactors' the Saudis will object to this omission.

Perhaps this oversight will be corrected?

I realize that as an American, I have little to say about State Department agenda, but it will be intersting to see, how you rectify this anomalie.

Best regards, C. Charleston