One man's graffiti is another man's art.

Same ole, same ole.

Another one! They're everywhere, it's true about dem Joos, I just read this excellent analysis which Zionista posted on another thread.

Its not really "must-read". I've read about two such articles every month for the past two years. It's getting a bit old, hearing "upsurge" this and "canard" that, over and over again, from writers across the developed world. It's time to stop writing articles and start dealing with the problem. Join the JDL. If there's no JDL in your community, start one. The next time some [bigoted word] in France throws a brick through a synagogue window, he should be dangling from a tree by the following morning, and there should be 14 million credible suspects.

Completely OT, but pretty cool

CIA Used Dragonfly, Catfish as Spy Gadget Models

OT: France 'to aim nuclear arms at rogue states'

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

And those rogue states...are?

OT: MUST READ THIS NOW:

Saudis Spending to Improve Image in U.S.
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

THIS IS SICK. the wahabbis are trying to break us from the inside out.

OT: Mahathir is right: Jews do rule the world

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

Before you flame, read the article...it's actually rather interesting

#7 Jewels

I'll bet you good money that Israel is high on the French "Rogue State" list.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The best chance for fanatics to get a nuke is thru France. Either they'll have sympathsizers (I can never be sure i spell that word right) in the military will make one available to the wrong people or the French will elect a death cultist into office, who arranges a sale or launches one himself.

I concur, make a cup of coffee or tea and read the article.

al Dean

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]
U.S. Forces in Iraq to Expand Blockades

Democratic presidential hopeful Howard Dean (news - web sites) said Bush "seems content to pursue the current flawed plan, unwilling to do what is necessary to encourage our friends and allies to assist, incapable of taking the steps necessary to expedite the transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis and content to direct billions of dollars to special interests like Halliburton."

#8 Jewels

An interesting article. Still pondering some of it.

Did we miss OBL's latest or was it just me? I know he's not exactly VDH but surely worth keeping tabs. Elsewhere on that site I read the Taliban's got fifteen provinces back. WTF? Where did the daisycutters go? We should be told this.

OT, a bit - though certainly to do with "anti-Semitism" - PE has a new article up Urgently Needed: Jews for a G-dly Israel ... For those with interest in these things.

I know it's "not fashionable" to actually BE Jewish (practicing), while we are resolutely battlin' the anti-Jew, - but....

but what's it all about, Alfie?

(I'm for bed, it's late -...sorry...been a long day. Regards all friends)

re #13 Which was funnier for the mistake (although if you speak the lingo... ), OBL

#8 Jewels (aka Julian) Fabulous link, fabulous article, btw. Thanks! :-) Very thought provoking.

Here's more to back the thesis: - The Jewish Roots of the American Constitution

Another excellent view from George Jonas at the National Post

After the bombing of the Red Cross the AP presents a special analysis - Know Your Enemy. How wrong.
/LinkyDom

The Ramadan Offensive

OT: A writer in France who has had an injection of Clue.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

STS-107 Crew Members Will Shine Permanently on Space Mirror

#7 It's deeply depressing. They'll be broken from the outside in before that Arab fascist shit takes the world in it's grip. Good thing it's the moderates against terror and not the neonazis five years from now. If we were sitting still here there'd be chaos, so I guess the next thing is to freeze Saudi publicity money. Maybe PR money for non-democracies can be tracked and restricted.

OT: Robert 'The Butcher' Mugabe strikes again

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

OT: And speaking of Mugabe...if this is true...faster please

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Correspondents say there have been a number of rumours about Mr Mugabe's health in recent years.

Those rumours are that he has Syphilis. I have absolutely no idea if there is any truth to it.

#25 Zulubaby

That would explane much. That's what turned my grandmother's brain to mush. I thought Mugabe's outbursts sounded familiar...

What is it about the French ambassadors and their bad behavior at meals?

"Bon Appetit" David Frankfurter _Israel Insider_

OT:

Another unearned award for Palewitch, Hanan Ashrawi:

[Link: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...]

Damn racist Jews!!!

From the Haaretz News Crawler:

11:43 Trade Minister Ehud Olmert grants holiday pay to 26,000 Palestinians employed in Israel, to enable them to celebrate Eid al-Fitr (Haaretz)

Yes, But the World Is Insane at this point. isn't it?

#31 Jewels

If this world is insane, its got multiple personality disorder. Anyone seen "Identity"? We need to handle it that way.

#30 bigel

You just won't give up this fantasy will you?
Israel is a moral state, they are not going to use nuclear weapons on somebody who has not directly attacked them. To suggest such a thing is an insult to Israel. In fact, you are putting Jews on the same level as the Arabs and that is just not true.

Did you read the discussion here about the problems Israel would have in taking out Iran's nuclear facilities? Well Europe is even further away.
Israel’s nuclear weapons are almost certainly low yield, 50-100 kilotons. IF they could get, say, 50 on target in Europe, it would sure cause a mess, but it wouldn’t destroy Europe much less cause major worldwide effects. It would insure that every Jew in Europe would die.

Grow up.

Off Topic - from this link at Drudge -
Bad spelling or sheer ignorance?

General William Boykin's comments surfaced two weeks ago, in which he likened the US battle against terror to a battle between Christiandom and the Muslim world, placing the Bush administration in an uncomfortable position.

Is it too much to expect that the AFP reporters who know that

Iftar, [is] the evening feast that breaks the dawn-to-dusk fast Muslims observe during the month of Ramadan

would know that the word is 'Christendom'

Bush hosted Ramadan dinner at White House mired in Islam controversy

#13 Dom

The taliban has taken 15 provinces back only in the mind of omar quadratullah jamar ( The taliban garden-gnome that hosted those funny "press-conference's" during the "afghan war") the western media usually reports his fantasy claimes as fast as he can utter them.
It's a situation that is not unlike the one excisting in the Israeli-Palestine conflict, the P.A. throws out press-releases without checking the story's behind it, the IDF checks their press-releases and can only react day's and sometimes weeks after the P.A. and the short attention span press is not interested in old story's.
( nor in holding the palestinian's/taliban to the same level of scutiny that they hold western government sources to)

( nor in holding the palestinian's/taliban's sources to the same level of scutiny that they hold western government sources to)

Sorry, it's early where i am typing from.

#33 Engineer:

Since Israel developed nukes back in the 1960s, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to postulate they have also developed weapons of the thermonuclear variety. After all, U.S. strategic warheads start at 150 kilotons...and those are H-bombs!

--
Got change for 10 million people?

bigel

What is this nuke this and nuke that. I dont think you have any comprehension what modern nuclear weapons do.

Israel is not in a position to nuke Europe. Ever. Get that in your tiny head.

# makler

It's possible, but I doubt it. A thermonuclear weapon is more than an order of magnitude more difficult. Without a test program, which Israel has not done, I don’t think they could do it.
Also, why should they spend the time and money? A low yield weapon suits Israel’s purposes just fine.

OT
Here is a good read by BERNARD LEWIS and R. JAMES WOOLSEY regarding the transition to democracy in Iraq. They are pointing out the virutes of using the 1925 constitution in a limited fashion which would re-instate the Hashemites in a constitutional monarchy.

King and Country

One choice qutotes:

It would be reasonable to use the traditional Middle Eastern concepts of legitimacy and succession and to build on the wide and historic appreciation for the rule of law and of limited government to help bring about a transition to democracy. The identification of legitimacy with the Western practice of balloting has now occurred in many cultures around the world, but it may well occur sooner in Iraq if it is developed at least initially as an expanding aspect of an already legitimate constitutional order.

Now, I have a burning question: Was "King Faisal, son of Hussain " the one played by Alec Guiness in "Lawerence of Arabia"?

Man, this is creepy:

IS GWB'S RAMADAN DINNER GUEST THE SPITTIN' IMAGE OF UDAY OR WHAT????

Shudder.

Oh, right, Islam means peace.

"Must remember. Islam means peace (Colin told me so, right?). Islam. Means. Peace. Islam Does Not Submission. Well, maybe technically. But: Islam. Means. Peace. Must. Remember. Must Repeat. Islam Means Peace. Must Repeat. Until. I. Am. Ideologically. Numb. Or. Until. A Nuke Goes Off. Courtesy of our Peaceful Friends.

/GWB

#17 Fay

You beat me too it! How early do you get up?
I would urge people to read this article pointed out by Fay

It's pretty much what we've been talking about here for months but perhaps more articles like this in the mainstream media will help expose the real problem.

#41 wordwrap

Man,O, man, you are right! I ‘m surprised he got in the White House without one of the guards shooting him!

Bush is trying very hard for this NOT to be a war against Islam. Wherever this is just a public stance, or what he really believes is unclear. If his Iraq gambit works, then we won’t need to attack the rest of the Mideast. However, if he publicly says that this IS a war against Islam, then we will have to conquer all of them. We may have to do that in the end, but I think his way is worth trying.

#17 Fay

Great article! Thanks!

#43

Muslims are people just like you. Most just want to get laid and make a good living for their kids. He is trying to pierce the Wahabbist propaganda and appeal to the better angels of human nature rather than going for the instant and easy antagonism route. I admire that he is trying the high road first even if it makes me grind my teeth. If he can make allies among muslims he may be able to stem the Wahabbist tide without epic bloodshed. If he fails at least America can say it tried.

Dar ul Harbarian #40

Apparently one needs to subscribe to the WSJ to view your link, which is a shame, because I'm really interested in reading that piece.

(You are about to find out what a "bad mommy" I am.)

My daughter has to do a research project for National History Day. Because I'm tired - not to mention upset - of hearing the current "Israel has no right to exist" bs, I suggested she look into how most of the Middle East countries were "created", just as Israel was. This way, I got HER to do the research on a topic that *I* wanted to know about :-) and she got ammunition to use against some of the dimwits in her history class who constantly harp on "the problem with Israel".

Anyway, long story (and paper, entitled: "Lines in the Sand - how borders were determined in the Middle East") short, I learned a lot about the region. For instance, Iraq was at one point 3 separate Ottoman provinces: Mosul, Baghdad and Basra. That explained a lot to me about the current situation in Iraq.

One of the best links I saw was
Jordan - World War I: Diplomacy and Intrique

It's an interesting read. (Source: Library of Congress Country Studies)

I'm still trying to figure out the Abdullah-Faisel-Hussein connections (Who's who, and were they brothers?)

#46

actually I think you're a great mommy! Not only did she learn something, you did too. :) I know my son is always impressed when he teaches me something. Of course at 8, it's not quite as indepth.

Thanks for the link too.

Since the threat to Israel is existential and ultimately has nothing to do with the Palestinians, why don't they just break off any semblance of a peace process?

When the world starts kicking and screaming, just point to Mathatir's words and those of Rafsanjani (Iran will nuke Israel as soon as she gets the bomb), and say "We will not aid in our own suicide. UN & EU, you can go fuck yourselves. When you do something about curbing Islamonazi Jew-hatred, and when the EU decides to protect its own Jews, then we can talk."

The world will still hate Jews, but at least Israel would stop the pretense that the Jewkillers of the EU and the UN should have any say.

Oh, and I would expel or jail reporters from any media outlet that questions Israel's right to exist -- Guardian, BBC, Independent, virtually all of the continental European Media, CBC and NPR for starters.

rachel #47

High School Happens. (And a lot quicker than I ever thought it would! ;-)

I was going to visit every thread and post my poem about camel felching and Madhatter, but instead I will cut and paste my plans for revenge against South Florida.

Actually 12.2C at IAH at 7am. But we should warm to near 30C.

BTW, south Florida LGF fans, possibility that the remnants of Tropical Storm Nicholas, now merging with a polar cold low, could slowly transition to a sub-tropical system and affect south Florida by late weekend.

As if Florida needs more rain.

But I, as a fan of the New York Yankees, back in the day of Chambliss, Nettles, Randolph, Sparky, Goose, Catfish, Reggie, Mickey, Thurman Munson, Piniella, White, Mercer and Bucky Dent, and playing with the weather machines klymatron control circuits to try to give south Florida the punishment it deserves.

Shoot, I hung a participle there, didn't I? I dangles something in that last sentence, anyway.

But y'all get my point.

Once again the Washington Times isn't afraid to call a spade a spade:

Anti-Semitism in Sweden

I have before me a study published Oct. 20 in a leading Swedish daily, Dagens Nyheter, which reports that "Arab and Muslim attacks on Jews are rising sharply in Swedish society [while] silence surrounds Muslim Jew-hatred."

Jewish congregations in Sweden have noted a sharp increase in "harassment, threats and attacks by Arabs and Muslims against Jews in Swedish society during the last few years," the report states. "The problem is furthermore aggravated by the almost complete silence which surrounds this form of Jew-hatred. If anti-Semitism among Arabs and Muslims in Sweden is discussed at all in Swedish media, it tends to be in the form of trivializations or denials of the problem."

Think this study will get much exposure, other than the media accusing the researchers of being racists for pointing the finger at the cause?

# 49 littleoldlady

I was afraid you'd say that. :)

Engineer #33

It seems that you are the one living in a fantasy world. Bigel (and Mr Pol, when he chimes in) is more accurate in his assessment than you are.

Europe is actively aiding in the extermination of Jews in the second Holocaust -- seling materials to make WMDs to the Islamofascists, voting regularly with them in the UN to vilify, demonize and dehumanize Israel and the Jews, and doing nothing to protect her own Jews, which makes sense, since Europe and Islam have one thing above all in common, which is their insatiable Jew-hatred. Add to that the sense of historical justice Jews would feel for the Holocaust and past persecutions (and it is naive to think it would not be a factor in a doomsday scenario), and the motivation to include Europe as a target becomes even more likely.

Even the Europeans must be aware of the threat -- that same French Ambassador that called Israel a "shitty little country" was also afraid she would start WW3.

As for 50 A-bombs hitting Europe -- I wouldn't write off the permanent damage they would do to the continent, combined with the fact that an Israeli nuclear retaliation would also likely take out their MIddle Eastern oil supply. The economic and social collapse would be so total, I am not sure Europe would ever recover (and in that scenario, I would hope they never do.) Remember, this is a continent of alleged greens, where countires have banned nuclear power, where GM foods are often banned, and where the Leftist Luddite Lunatics (new meaning for LLL) are running the asylum. They had to dump billions of dollars in food after Chernobyl. What do you think they would do after an Israeli attack, where there would be almost no potable food or water left (and likely the USA would be in no mood and/or no position to bail them out this time.)

I don't know if you have family in Israel. I do. They used to believe "Never Again", but they now realize that a second Holocaust is possible, and they now say
"that they will make the world pay for it", as one of my relatives told me. I doubt he is the only one who thinks like that.

So you go on deluding yourself, thinking that Israeli retaliation will be limited to Mecca and Medina. But you do so at your own risk. Instead of getting mad at the Jews for defending themselves, maybe you should get mad at the Islamofascists for pushing her to the brink.

The Islamofascists are determined to nuke Israel. They don't care that 100 million may be killed in the retaliation, that is less than 10% of Islam. It is the type of high price that totalitarian degenerates pay for achieving their version of Utopia (witness Marxism as a good example.) The Muslims care little for human life, so Israel's nukes are no defense. However, the Europeans may not be so sanguine about being obliterated, so the slim hope is that they will take a vested interest in seeing Israel survive, in order that they survive. If that does not work, then my view is this -- if Jews can't live on this planet in peace and security, then no body else should either, and Israel should take as much of the world down with her as she can.

At 3 pm, local warm 923C) and quite breezy ( gusts to 30 mph) at Ben Gurion, the light rain has ended for now.
But be warned:
Updates will be issued as needed
Forecast for today and tonight:

Local light rain from the north to the negev accompanied by
strong winds. The rain will stop during the day.The
themperatures will be below normal for this time of year.

Warning:

Rain is forecasted. Drivers should be aware of the danger of
skidding on wet roads and prevent sudden stops and sharp
turns


I take it Israelis drive like Angelenos?

Do they have something like the WSR-88D Nexrad Doppler radar in Israel.

The Israel Meteorological Service says they have some kind of weather radar, but I can't find a link.

Two weeks have now passed since Palestinian terrorists attacked an American diplomatic convoy in Gaza on October 15, deliberately killing three US citizens in a wanton act of murder.

The attack, of course, was astonishing, if only because it marked the first time in years that the Palestinians have singled out Americans as their target. But what is even more startling is what took place back in Washington on that very same day, when US President George W. Bush signed a six-month waiver of the 1987 Anti-Terrorism Act, allowing the PLO's offices in America to remain open.

In a short letter addressed to Secretary of State Colin Powell, Bush declared, "I hereby determine and certify that it is important to the national security interests of the United States" that the PLO offices continue to function as usual.
So, even as Palestinian terrorists were brazenly killing Americans, the White House was generously rewarding them with a six-month extension of their lease.

#45 Dar ul Harbarian

Yes, I think we are saying the same thing. If the Wahabbist propaganda was stopped and countered, we might find that the Muslims are peaceful. IMHO it is worth trying.

Off Topic, but funny Hunting I-wackis

The groundwork for a Second Holocaust is being prepared. The one good thing is this time the Jews are armed. The quetion for me is "are they preapared to fight with all the might, skill, and courage that they can possibly muster?"

Dom (#3),
Thanks for the hat tip.

Deathberg (#4),
It's an argument that needs to made vigilantly. In case you haven't noticed, antisemitic anti-Zionists are very vigilant in exploiting the rhetoric of human rights, even though there is no genuine human rights argument that does not support the principle of Jewish national self-determination in Israel. Just because you may be bored with the argument doesn't mean you can shoot your way out of it for the rest of us. Please keep your head in the game.

OT:

Yesterday the following bit appeared in Nealz Nuze:

"I heard a CNN reporter this morning hammering home the point that we just don't know who is behind these attacks. The hell we don't. The people behind these attacks are Islamic terrorists! They're cut from the same cloth as those who attacked New York City and Washington DC. They're the brethren of the Islamic terrorists who blew up that nightclub in Bali. Saddam loyalists, Hamas, Palestinians, Al Qaeda ... whatever. They're all but teams in the Muslim Terrorist League."

A listener sent that excerpt back to me with the following:

The Muslim Terrorist League... ha. The MTL. I wonder if they have a draft.

Announcer:
"...and Abdul Kaliq Istanbul is a real up-and-comer... first car bombing at age 11, and first pointless hand to hand killing before he reached 13. Now @ age 14 he is seeking early entry into the MTL, as he heard they have instituted a salary cap prior to next year."

Abdul Kaliq Istanbul: "I can get $37,000 and 7 virgins this year. If I wait until next year, it might be less than half that. I will only live two years before I will meet Allah upon a glorious mission, so I need to make what I can now."

I don't' care who you are .. .now that's funny

Wonder why you never hear anything but praise about the saudis on every news network? Saudi payola plan

Opps AJ... that's what I get for not reading from the top. Double links. Well, in case anyone didnt see your link...

#48 fireman,

"We will not aid in our own suicide."

Not a bad idea for a slogan considering the emotional appeal it has to it.

#54 fireman

Where to start?

Israel does NOT have the ability to launch a major nuclear attack on Europe. They certainly could build such a force, but they haven’t which tells me that they have no plans in that direction.

The weapons that I think Israel has are in the same range as those used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those cities were never evacuated and never “cleaned up” in the sense of a Superfund site. Yet, they are both normal cities today.

France produces almost all of its electric power with nuclear energy; in addition, they sell the output of two reactors to Italy. They also reprocess their own fuel plus fuel from Japan.

Yes, there is Jew-hatred in Europe, but it is NOT official policy nor that widespread, if it was, they would be deporting Jews today and they are not anywhere close to that.

As I said before, a nuclear attack on someone who has not directly attacked you is immoral and suggesting that Israel will do that is an insult to Israel.

From the Saudi article.

"The facts are a very stubborn thing," al-Jubeir

LOL. Yes they are Jubeir. Yes they are.

Not only that, but this week's USNews edition cover is titled "The New Anti-Semitism".

Of the "big three" weekly newsmagazines, USNews is the only one I can stomach.

Kudos to Mort and Co. for at least dealing with the subject (Slime and Yawnweek simply feature how awful we Americans really are).

# 52, Geepers

It is undescrible how swedish media make awful afford to whitewash islam and they want make swedish jewry(20 000) to call Israel for rasist state.
But no way...

Rabbi in Stockholm is an american, and most of jews are aware of the situation of Israel.

The goverment of Sweden through Goran Persson are 100% share position of America. But then we have to many communists who give assylum to muslims some of which are islamonazis by all means.

Thanks för link to Washington Post.

I used to think Bigel and Mr Pol were paranoid, but certain recent developments, especially Chirac's announcement that France reserves the right to first use of nuclear weapons against nuclear "rogue states" makes me wonder.

From what I understand, the reports in the LA Times a while back about Israel converting Harpoon missiles was incorrect. The Harpoon only has about a 200 km range, and a report I read says the weight of a even a small warhead would destabilize the missile.

So France has 480 MIRV on 5 SSBNs, and Israel's deterrent response is the Jericho 2 missile based in a country the size of New Jersey.

If France did launch a first strike, it could decapitate Israel's response capability, if I'm correct.

If anyone with more definitive knowledge wants to add something, I'm all ears.

#68 Ed
Maybe I've missed something, but why do we seem to think France considers Israel a rogue state?

Heh heh...

'KOSHER' PIGS TAKE ON TERROR

Jewish settlers in the West Bank say there's a new weapon to fight terrorism - bomb-sniffing pigs.

And prominent rabbis agree the idea is kosher.

"Pigs have a much more developed sense of smell than dogs. They can sniff bombs faster than dogs and at greater distances," said Yekutiel Ben Yakov of the Tupuach settlement.

#68 Ed Moran: Not French Looking

The Harpoon only has about a 200 km range, and a report I read says the weight of a even a small warhead would destabilize the missile.

That report is BS, trust me on this one.

If France did launch a first strike, it could decapitate Israel's response capability, if I'm correct.

France is not going to shoot at Israel.

reaganite
why do people think that France's saber rattling is aimed at Israel?

Via Muslim Terrorist League (60):

"I heard a CNN reporter this morning hammering home the point that we just don't know who is behind these attacks. The hell we don't. The people behind these attacks are Islamic terrorists! They're cut from the same cloth as those who attacked New York City and Washington DC. They're the brethren of the Islamic terrorists who blew up that nightclub in Bali. Saddam loyalists, Hamas, Palestinians, Al Qaeda ... whatever."

Great stuff, and not altogether OT. It seems almost too self consciously that Islamist thugs will give names to the cells that carry out their terror strikes. It's as if they use our demand for specific information in problem solving skills against us by it. If we want to "fix" a problem in Israel and the territories, we need to deal with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or Al Aqsa Martyrs. If we want to deal with a problem in Lebanon, we must deal with Hizbollah. Pacific Rim, another. Phillipines, another. If we want to deal with the problem in Iraq, we have to deal with whatever name they spit out at us there.

And who do we blame all these myriad of problems on? Why Israel and Jews, of course! On that point, all the Islamic fascists are quite consistent. Go figure....

Here's how it went, I THINK (but am not
entirely sure. . .)
Hussein was shariff of Mecca; he started the revolt
against the Turks. His son Feisal (played by
Alec Guinness) did most of the fighting,
accompanied by Peter O'Toole (played
by Lawrence).
When all the dust settled at the
end of the First World War,
France got Syria, England got Palestine
(which then included the Golan heights
as part of the British allotment),
and Feisal ended up as king
of Iraq; his brother Abdullah ruled
in Arabia.
Then in the 1920s the Saudi clans chased
Abdullah out, and, to placate him,
he was given a new territory, Transjordan,
(boundaries devised by Churchill) as
a compensation prize (second-place
runner-up). The Jewish allotment in Palestine
was therefore decreased by half.
In about 1922 or 1927 (?) the British traded the Golan
to France, in exchange for something
(French recognition of British claims elsewhere?)
and the Golan went to Syria. The Lebanon
was detached sometime around then
to become a protected enclave for
non Sunni minorities, including Christian
sects.
In 1958 the Iraqis had a revolution
and murdered Feisal's successor (son?),
and got a succession of secular tyrants
instead.
Hence the only remaining Hashemite ruler
(of the same family as Mohammed,
hence direct descendants of the Prophet)
is the present Abdullah, king of Jordan.
There. I THINK that's the stats on
all the players. Correct me if I'm wrong. . .

Reaganite #71

Either you are privy to some information most of us don't know (and given your military experience, that may very well be possible) or you are VERY naive about France. Personally, I believe that the threat is aimed at Israel.

France is really the new Nazi Germany. It is the European engine of hate that will propel and embolden the Arabs to nuke Israel, while France encourages Muslims in Europe to attack and kill the remnants of European Jewry.

Thousands of French Jews are leaving, much more than the 2500 or so per year officially going to Israel. They know the dangers, and that perhaps they have five years before the massacres and state-sanctioned discrimination begins. Tops.

#75 fireman

Thousands of French Jews are leaving, much more than the 2500 or so per year officially going to Israel. They know the dangers, and that perhaps they have five years before the massacres and state-sanctioned discrimination begins. Tops

Perhaps they are leaving because France's economy sucks on stilts.

Seahawk #74

EXCELLENT!! Thank you very much! I get it now. (Printing that out so I don't forget it, because I'm...you know...old :-)

Next question(s): Saddam HUSSEIN was not one of the royal Husseins, am I right? Did he take on that name to give himself legitimacy? Or was he born with it? (I guess Hussein is a common name in the region?)

More: Does this mean the Ibn Saud family are NOT descendents of Mohammed? If so, how do they justify being the keepers of the holy cities?

Gotta love this...

Engineer #64

1) France gets about 60% of its electric power form nuclear, not 100%. Only Belgium also gets more than 50% of its power via nuclear, among European nations. Many get none at all. Also, last I looked, nukes don't power motor vehicles, airplanes and even a lot of trains.

2) You seem to be fairly sanguine about the idea of a 20-kiloton fission nuke hitting European cities. Given that a lot of these cities were totally leveled 60 years ago, I doubt they would be so sanguine as you.

3) Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not critical cities to the operation of Japan, in the way that Tokyo, Kyoto or Kobe were. That is one reason in fact they were chosen. How well would France function if Paris were leveled? What would Greece be like without Athens?

4) You are wrong -- Jew-hatred is official policy in Europe. Toleration of anti-semitic attacks by governments that do little to stop or denounce them (Italy maybe being the exception), makes it official policy. This is in fact, deliberate. Europe hopes to blackmail Israel (as Bat Yeor has written) basically into surrendering to the Arabs by holding European Jews hostage to Muslim mobs. It IS official policy.

Waaaaay back when, in college, my friend was trying to convince me of the necessity of a Jewish state, what with all the crap Jews have been put through throughout history.

I was all like, dude, what about the USA? Everybody's totally safe here.

And he was like, well, yes, the US has been very good to Jews, but there may come a day when the atmosphere is no longer so hospitable.

I thought he was fcuking nuts. Antisemitism in the West in this day and age? Unthinkable.

Flash forward to today. I still think there's no reason to doubt America (as a safe place for Jews to live), but the situation in France is getting downright scary. It's pretty sweet to have a country to move to that guarantees they'll let you in.

fireman (75): "France is really the new Nazi Germany."

Can't we resist the temptation to hyperbolize and simply see present day France as the continuum of the same old Jacobins, anti-Dreyfusards, and Vichy?

Andrew #76

You are being blind and naive. They are leaving because they are facing persecution -- basically it is official government policy because the government does nothing to stop it.

France's economy has been in the doldrums for over a decade, why weren't Jews leaving before the start of the Intifada? Because the Islamonazis were not attacking them then.

France has made its pact with the Arabs, and part of that pact is the destruction of the Jews. The sooner you pull off your blinders, the better.

OT

The AP captioner implies it's for dinner, but I'm not so sure.

Zionista #81

I am not using hyperbole; you are either naive or covering your eyes and ears.

"Your Taxes for PLO Propaganda"

Ever wonder who is behind the well-oiled Palestinian propaganda operation that reaches out to every media outlet and every college campus in sight? Who pays for Palestinian efforts to lobby Congress to overlook its campaign of homicide bombing? Who finances glowing histories of the PLO's role in stabilizing the Middle East? Who funds studies about how Yasser Arafat can better manipulate public opinion in the United States? Look no further than your own tax return.

This week, in response to a question from our news agency, the U.S. government has finally acknowledged that the U.S. Aid For International Development (USAID) indeed funds the Palestine Academic Society For the Study of Academic Affairs (PASSIA), the PLO lobby group in Jerusalem which trains PLO media professionals in the art of transforming the image of the Arab-Israeli struggle into an Arab David against an Israeli Goliath.

Read the rest at FrontPageMag

#76 fireman
I said perhaps. I don't pretend to know the motives of people in a country I do not live in.

Further, if things are as you say, that France considers Israel a rogue state, what can be done about it? (this is an honest question)

Hashemite Family Tree

King Hussein had 4 wives (consecutive, not concurrent)& loads of kids, the current King Abdullah has many brothers & cousins.

I don't think the Al Sauds claim descent from Mohammad.

There was a nearly identical story in The New York Times magazine two weeks ago.

PB

Andrew, the only other state that might fit the French definition of a "rogue state" ( besides maybe the US) that might possibly be in range to launch missiles at France is Iran, and based on France's behavior and attitude, I think it is as likely Chirac was referring to Israel as any other country.

I don't think North Korea with nukes worries the French, the NorKors have little reason to threaten France. If France was worried about terrorist nukes ( ie Pakistan ) I doubt they would have supported terrorist regimes with nuclear intentions the way they did.

#20

"Dalil Boubakeur, of the Paris mosque, said: 'Words have a price. One can kill with a word. Freedom of expression stops at the point at which it does damage and the Muslim community feels insulted.'"

My my, when it is directed at them, the [bigoted word]s sure get testy, but when they make their noxious statements about Joos, its ok, because afterall, Allah the beneficient and mighty, wants the Joos killed.

On the subthread of Israel's use of its nuclear deterrent, I think we may be a bit ahead of ourselves. Yes, the words coming from the Arab world are dangerous precursors of some organized attempt to eradicate, once and for all, Israel, but these countries have hardly shown an ability to adequately organize themselves, and many of these nations would rather pay their Arab brethren to fight the fight for them (e.g. Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf States). My hunch is that the rhetoric, while disturbing and worthy of being monitored and exposed for its pure evil, will do nothing more than feed these mindless dingbats with theories that they already espouse, and provide nothing more than dogma to keep the masses limited attention focused away from the own failings of their societies and economies.

None of this is to say that what is being said in the [bigoted word] world media isn't worrying, or for that matter in much of the EU media, it absolutely is and I agree that it is a potential precursor to worse things to come. However, we aren't quite there yet and we all must remain vigilent in exposing, responsing to and discrediting such statements.

Fireman
France' electric stats:
Electricity - production:
520.1 billion kWh (2001)
Electricity - production by source:
fossil fuel: 8.2%
hydro: 14%
other: 0.7% (2001)
nuclear: 77.1%
Electricity - consumption:
415.3 billion kWh (2001)
Electricity - exports:
72.6 billion kWh (2001)
Electricity - imports:
4.2 billion kWh (2001)

CIA Factbook
All trains in France are electric

It still comes down to the point that you are doing a disservice to Israel to even suggest that they would use nuclear weapons on a county that had not attacked them with WMD.

Smit #88

Great link. Thanks! (No wonder I'm confused! Muhammed - Abdullah - Mohammed - Abdullah, ad infinitum...ad nauseum)

Sorry for the OT, everybody. LGFers are the smartest people on the 'net. I knew I could come here and get unconfused.

#84 fireman

I am not using hyperbole;...

No, you are using hyperbole.

Because the Islamonazis were not attacking them then.

France has made its pact with the Arabs, and part of that pact is the destruction of the Jews.

Jew-hatred is official policy in Europe.

Given that a lot of these cities were totally leveled 60 years ago, I doubt they would be so sanguine as you.

Engineer #92

You do a disservice to Israel (and invite her annihilation) by stating that she is not prepared to use nukes on Europe.

And whether it's 60% of 77% nuclear, please tell me how France will function without fuel. Not to mention other European nations which don't depend on nuclear energy.

#46

&

#74

One interesting tidbit is that the geography of Jordan and Iraq, with the two panhandles touching, was designed by the British to create a buffer to keep the Saudi Arabian Wahabbists out of Syria.

Buckeye Abroad #94

You mistake the ugly truth for hyperbole.

Rather than print out 16 individual pages as US News makes you do, Jewish World Review has a "Print Friendly" button.

Also, while you're there, click on one of their banner ads. It'll help support his very important site.

More on Hashemite and Saud history.

This is one of the most way-coolest websites I know of. A huge reference for history and philosophy. It just goes on and on and on.

MODERN ISLÂM

Rednek #99

Holy Canoli! It's the Motherlode! Thanks very much for that link. WOW.

#72 andrew
Sorry for the delay, I had to go to a meeting.

why do people think that France's saber rattling is aimed at Israel?

I've starting thinking of it as bigel/fireman's theory of Euro bashing. It's not based on anything but their own opinions. BTW, of which I disagree with strongly.

#75 fireman

or you are VERY naive about France.

Others have already exposed your hyperbole for what it is. I don't have anything to add.

Fireman--

First, let's agree that, yes, if France were to launch a nuclear attack on Israel, that Israel would find some way to respond and destroy France. Whether or not it's a submarine launched nuke of Paris, or something, yes, that would be the End of France.

Now, can we move away from this Fantasy? France Politicos may or may not wish the destruction of Israel, and perhaps even of World Jewry. France may secretly aid radical Islamists in their mission to destroy Israel. But to think that the mindset of France is such that they would directly participate in a war against Israel is beyond stupid. Where in the French Character do you see them attacking anything bigger than the Ivory Coast? How does it benefit France to risk annihilation? Chirac may be an evil asshole, but he's not a radical Islamic evil asshole-- the mindset is different.

Oh, and France is already paying a heavy price for it's Islamization. We'll see how well Chirac's policies survive Chirac in a few years. Hopefully, it won't be too late, but Frenchmen aren't stupid. They see who's destroying their precious French culture and Heritage, and it sure ain't Les Juifs.

I'm sorry. I'm tired of rational arguements in defense of Israel.

Rationality doesn't work. Zuckerman, like Dershowitz, as well intentioned as they are, preach to a choir. Us.

The only way to fight the arab enemy is with violence.

The world is upside down with people believing lies and wanting death.

Death is something the enemy of the 'west' desires. Give it to him.

#95 fireman

Oh, you are talking about nuking the oil fields. Hate to tell you, but that would not destroy the oil. Probably would have to redrill most of the wells and rebuild the pipelines. It would make for a hard year or two and the Jew-haters would finally have some justification. It that what this is about? You want Israel to do something that would justify the hatred?

#97 fireman

You mistake the ugly truth for hyperbole.

No, the only truth here is you expressing your opinions through hyperbole.

Can you post I link supporting anything in your rant or do you concede that you are only posting your opinion?

There are justifiable, deep concerns regarding the EUs silence and/or position on a number of issues, but what you are suggesting is pure hype. Also, your retorts to other posters being "naive" or "blind" who do not agree with you is a standard troll option. I don't necessarily disagee with some of your assessment, but lets identify the wolf before crying it.

engineer #104

What are you, an idiot? An Islamofascist plant? According to you, if Israel is attacked with WMDs, Israel shouldn't nuke Europe. Israel shouldn't nuke the Arabs. Israel shouldn't nuke anyone. Israel and the Jews should just sit there and let themselves be mass murdered again.

If Israel is going to be allowed to be exterminated, why in hell should she care what the world thinks, when the world wants her dead anyway? Your appeasement is right out of the pages of Neville Chamberlain (or more timely, Paul Krugman).

A complete and total repair of the destruction of oil wells, pipelines and refineries would take more than a year to do. First of all, much of the expertise to fix it will either be dead (from Israel nuking Europe), or will not want to go into what is basically a radioactive hot zone.

Look at Iraq -- damage there was far, far less than a nuclear scenario, and that took months to repair.

In the meantime, you would have a complete collapse of the European economy, starvation, people freezing in winter (maybe not in Greece, but certainly in Germany), and lawlessness in which a restive and violent Muslim minority might actually seize dictatorial control.

#104 Engineer
Head, meet concrete wall. It's not worth it dude.

A Berman 102

You answered your own rhetorical question within your post.

Why would France be crazy enough to risk a nuclear exchange with Israel? You said it in one word -- Islamicization.

Damn it, where are bigel and Mr Pol when you need back-up? :(

#106 fireman

Not at all. I would expect Israel to return a WMD attack with a measured response against whoever attacked them. They might even do it preemptively which would have my full support if it was justified. I don't expect Israel to harm those that did not attack her out of spite. Israel is too moral to do that.

Excellent article. I can't wait to hear what the LLL's respond with... wait no, I don't even want to. It'll be sick, twisted, and generally illogical.

...sigh...

#107 reaganite

Yes, I just figured that out. Beside, I have work to get done.

reaganite, check your mail

#77

>Next question(s): Saddam HUSSEIN was not one of the royal Husseins, am I right? Did he take on that name to give himself legitimacy? Or was he born with it? (I guess Hussein is a common name in the region?) to any royalty. (His actual surname is br /Tikriti, which means his clan comes from br /Tikrit, in northern Iraq)./p p>More: Does this mean the Ibn Saud family are NOT descendents of Mohammed? If so, how do they justify being the keepers of the holy cities?

# 77

The Saudis are NOT descended from Mohammed.
They base their right to rule the holy cities
on the claim that they are more pure moslems
(Wahabis) than any others. This places
an awful burden on them to always have
to appear as "defenders of the faith".

Before oil, the main (only?) source of income
in Arabia was from the hadj (pilgrimage to Mecca).
Whoever controlled Mecca, had a substantial
income; hence its attractivnesss for any
desert sheik. The Saudis come from from the
interior of the country (Riyadh), and are
often criticized for "looting" the wealth
of the two coasts--oil from the east, and
hadj income from the west--while contributing
nothing themselves.

To all the posters who keep talking about Israel nuking this and nuking that . . .

Please, the "secret success" of Jews for the past 5,000 years has been their attempts to apply reason and morality to solve problems (which always exist and will always exist). When Jews became too emotional, the Romans conquered them. Read Josephus, for a good read.

It would be much better for Israel to continue its attempts to be a moral and democratic country and for Jews to continue to fight anti-Semitism by appealing to the kind and rational nature of others. Sure, Jews don't always win, but we're here aren't we? And we'll be here as long as the human race survives despite our enemies.

I think talking about nuking is great for venting, but I read LGF for its links to problem-solving. The reason the U.S. and Israel are going to win the war against Islamofacism is because we use our brains in a positive way.

IF we dont call a Spade a Spade..we aren't going to be ready and willing to protect ourselves in the West. Thats all there is to it. You cant engage in a decades long struggle denying the fact that you are in fact in a life and liberty and death action against Islam.

It only fuels Islam if they see the West and America in particular moving away from Proud Support of Israel and dancin around the subject of Antisemetism in the Islamic World ...the kind , amount and severity,we havent seen since the 30's.

Where are the Politicians that say outloud that YES...of course America supports Israel..Israel shares most of Americas Values and Israel IS its natural ally. Say it without the dancing around.

Americans feel that way in the majority...despite the effect of 25 years of Islamic Mega Bucks poured into the US as Graft Corruption ..See Daniel Pipes on this subject.

Actually all America ever had to do was say NO..to a Palistinian State. It isnt a deep dark secret that there in fact never was a separate Palistinian State...So if everyone knows this, including the Arabs...what does it mean to THEM that America has signed on to this SHAM. Was THAT the reason they thought that America was less strong than it seemed and was THAT the reason they blew up the Towers? What WAS the message sent to the Islamic World when America agreed to help form a Pal State and slowly inch away from support of their natural ally, Israel?

My daughter has to do a research project for National History Day. Because I'm tired - not to mention upset - of hearing the current "Israel has no right to exist" bs, I suggested she look into how most of the Middle East countries were "created", just as Israel was. This way, I got HER to do the research on a topic that *I* wanted to know about :-) and she got ammunition to use against some of the dimwits in her history class who constantly harp on "the problem with Israel".

I never see anyone use this point in arguments about the "legitimacy" of Israel, and it's a great one: Most of the Arab states in the Middle East have arbitrary borders and rulers imposed by the West just as Israel does (and at the same time), so either they are all legitimate or none of them are.

Another good one is to challenge people to list the characteristics which define a group of people as a "national identity" which deserve their own state. You can't make a list that includes the Pals and doesn't include the Jews. Which is where much falsification of Jewsh history comes from, since if they admit the actual historical record of Jews in Israel, they can't deny our claim.

Leah (117): "What WAS the message sent to the Islamic World when America agreed to help form a Pal State and slowly inch away from support of their natural ally, Israel?"

It's not a zero-sum game. American leadership can help form a Palestinian state and support its natural ally in Israel by realizing the idea that Palestinian self-determination gets Israel out of having to drain its resources, revenues, and its diplomatic good will by otherwise having to administer territories with millions of hostile souls with its military. Further, most Israelis understand this. How Islamist fascists choose to spin it is irrelevant. Islamist fascists will spin anything any way that gets their rocks off anyhow.

Seahawk - and everyone else - thanks so much for your help! (My daughter is gonna KILL me. There's too much information for her 9th grade brain ;-)

Yehudit #118

Thank you. I will keep your second idea on file for the next time I feel like torturing my kid. :-) My goal is to have her be the best informed Israel-advocate in her school. (Not to mention the benefits that I get from her work!)

Know what else I learned? There's more disputed borders in the Middle East than just the West Bank and Gaza. Check out this map:
Current MidEast Borders

Poor Yemen! Poor Oman, Qatar & the U.A.E.! Where's the outrage? Where's the U.N. resolutions? Where's....oh, never mind.

I'd think more highly of mr. zuckerman if he weren't a personal friend of fidel castro.

I am somewhat more inclined to think of anti-Semitism as a urine stain on history's walls.

#120 littleoldlady
Maybe you could get your daughter to do some more digging into the history of Middle Eastern borders to answer a question of mine. When I was a kid who liked maps (70's), there used to be an area that was diamond shaped in between Kuwait, Iraq, and Saudi. It was some kind of noman's-land then, but now it appears to have been split between Iraq and Saudi. What was up with that scrap of disputed? unwanted? land and how did it get divided? I'm sure your daughter likes nothing more than finding the answers to questions her mom has read on the Internet posted by strangers too lazy to do their own research, so I'll try to think up some more. :)

Doss #123

I'm sure your daughter likes nothing more than finding the answers to questions her mom has read on the Internet posted by strangers too lazy to do their own research, so I'll try to think up some more. :)

My dear Doss, I'm sure she'll be thrilled to help you out. ;-)

Every map I saw shows Kuwait exactly the same. Like this one.

There apparently was a border dispute between Iraq and Kuwait in the 1800s, but I don't suppose that's what you are talking about.

The only other thing I can think of is that "No Man's Land" part of Kuwait/Iraq that our troops went through at the beginning of the war to liberate Iraq. That was, IIRC, the area of Kuwaiti oil wells that Iraq burned in the first Gulf War (?)

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Not just in France and Sweden.
Here's a headline from the current scrolling news banner in Ha'aretz:

Israeli youths on visit to Poland kicked out from Krakow restaurant for being Jewish

No article posted yet.
Here we go again.