This is news?

...but attacks in Chechnya and India are included. Hmmm...

I was going to write "and this is new?"... and saw # 1.
C.

They don't list them among "terrorist" acts because they don't think of them as terrorist attacks.

Disgusting.

This tells you what is in store for Jews.

It is a mega evil time and we have not begun to see the worst of it. The world will wink, this I know for a fact.

Terrorism against Israelis isn't terrorism; it's resistance.

/International Solidarity Movement speak.

Oh, and the Zionist controlled media really dropped the ball on this one.

/puke

First! :)

Well, thought the noise around the original publishing of this list will make other news agancies more careful befor publishing similar lists. I see CNN not only does not learn from others mistakes - it payes to use them themselves.

And on top of things, CNN got the nerve to place that news item under MIDDLE EAST section.
Now THAT's stupid.

Unless Israel has suddenly became an official part of Europe, that is. If that's the case then it's fine. :)

HonestReporting had an article on this, last week. See it at the top of their article list on their homepage.

All brought to the world by the religion of peace.

This is not “lying by omission”. It is rather a matter of definitions. In a terror attack, the victims are innocent civilians. According to the Nazi-disposed CNN/Reuters, Israelis are NEVER innocent -- Israelis are GUILTY by essence.

The question is:

What can one do about this?

Writing letters to the press, media, etc. and ombudsmen from Reuters and CNN - that might have a 1 in a million chance of working.

We need something more efficient.

Perhaps a petition with a web site? See, all this stuff does not scare Reuters and CNN - they need to see something like a lawsuit by the victim's families in Israel or a threat of boycott or drop of ad money, etc.

Maybe we need someone like Dershowitz going public and blasting these people from Reuters and CNN? Don't know... suggestions?

Reuters clearly is biased against Israel, and this has gone on for too long. But CNN is at the very least, from a journalistic standpoint, NEGLIGENT for merely reprinting an incomplete list that does not include all the attrocities committed in Israel.

compare and contrast:
From the CNN article -
>

April 11 - Truck explodes near El Ghriba synagogue on Tunisian island of Djerba. Kills 20, including 14 Germans.
May 8 - Suspected suicide bomber in a car kills 11 French navy experts and three Pakistanis outside Sheraton hotel in southern Pakistani city of Karachi
June 14 - Car bomb outside U.S. consulate in Karachi kills at least 11, injures 45
October 6 - Explosion rips through French supertanker Limburg, off Yemen. One crew member killed. Yemen suspects remote control device was used to ram an explosives-laden boat into the tanker.

Etc.....

From an article Victims of Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000 (link follows text)

903 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.

Between September 29, 2000 and September 1, 2003, Magen David Adom treated a total of 5,794 casualties as follows:

743 killed, 504 severely injured, 710 moderately and 3837 lightly injured, among them 11 MDA staff members.

(IDF casualties treated by IDF medical personnel are not included in these figures.)

Victims of Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000

Any LGFers in London at the moment? Email me please, I have a very specific question to ask.

Everyone glosses over the fact that this loathesome CNN-Reters article was written by someone. Who? What is their name? Email address? What was wrong with the blacklist?

Just like the Nazis did in the 30's and 40's, the Arabs and their European enablers continue to try to dehumanize and deligitimize the Jews. It's disgusting, but not surprising, that Reuters and CNN play into this tactic. What the Arabs do not seem to realize is that this time they are not facing unarmed civilians with little conception of what is in store for them. They are instead facing a formidable military power that is willing to do anything to preserve its existence. I don't mean to sound apocalyptic, but if they continue down this road, they may yet succeed in their goal, but at an unimaginable cost to themselves.

#14 Stormi-Still Seething

Aww ... c'mon ... don't keep the rest of us in suspense!

#14 Stormi

I'm near London, but don't know it like a Londoner. If you get stuck, email me and I'll answer as best I can.

Nineteenth!!!

The Communist News Network hates Israel. That's all there is to it.

Well, OK I'll ask it here. I have planned a trip to London for the weekend after Thanksgiving. I got an email today AT MY HOME, which is unprecedented, telling me that because of the raised terror alert in London I should think twice about that trip.

I've been reading Yahoo news and they're saying it's not related to President Bush's visit, and the alert is for security services and police and not aimed at the general public. Here's the part of the article I'm talking about:

The BBC said the additional alert was for he security services, including police, intelligence and the army and was not directed at the public.

So, does that mean that I absolutely should cancel my trip, or should I wait and see?

Are you going to let the Islamo-fascists win and hide under your bed?

Do you think the barbarians are going to nuke London and kill every last person?

Gar. Forgot the rest of my question.

I wanted to ask a Londoner if this is frightening to them, or could it be a situation comparable to the months after Sept 11 2001 when terror alerts were issued everyday for everything.

I'm not the type of person to be afraid of my own shadow, but at the same time, I don't want to take unnecessary risks. Government types tend to err on the side of caution. Is cancelling my trip going overboard in the caution department?

12 Ronnie

Just keep tellin' it like it is.
25% on each end really know/understand what's going on here. Out of the 50% in the middle, probably only 25% of them can be enlightened. The rest will really care only when something happens to them directly (too late by then tho...).
'Tis the way the world has always been. You're obviously one of the right 25%.

For this and all the other CNN lies, I have not clicked on their web site in over a year, and I NEVER tune to their channel. I personally boycott anything I see accoiated with CNN or the NYT, and I make a point of buying things advertised on Fox. You lie, you get punished.

A chronology of attacks on Jewish targets, Israelis abroad

And Kat (#13), thanks for the link.

#20, #21 #22

Stormi,

You should definitely take Ibrodsky’s advice and hide under your bed. Before you do that, make sure that you publicize your concerns widely for the benefit of the terrorists’ propaganda!

22 Stormi-Still Seething

If you truly believe that the Islamists are about to nuke London--and there is no doubt they would if the could--then don't go.

But the risk of being killed by terrorists is probably less than the risk you will be killed in an automobile accident if you stay home.

5 4 3 2 1... i told you so

oops wrong thread

#20 Please do visit. This isn't quite full alert and anyway you know the score and London's big and supremely cool to visit.

Dom, are you in London? Email me please.

#20 Stormi

There's been a fluctuation of threats (we had tanks at Heathrow in 2002), but nothing yet. When is Thanksgiving? If you are genuinely concerned, I'd wait for a couple of weeks after Ramadan, the period in which AQ is said to be planning to strike.

But I'd go anyway.

I've planned to go the weekend after Thanksgiving, which would be the last weekend of November. Couple of weeks from today. When does Ramadan end?

#33 Stormi-Still Seething

I think it's a moon thing but it ends sometime on Nov 24.

Thanks, Karski, Dom and Colt.

Just when I think, "can CNN suck anymore?" They prove me wrong.

Funny how the leftist whine and seethe about the Zionist controlled media. What media exactly are they talkng about?

Here are Islamic terrorist attacks during the same time period that CNN/Reuters omitted from their article:

October 4, 2003 Haifa 19 killed, 60 wounded Islamic Jihad Suicide bombing in restaurant owned by Jews and Arabs

August 19, 2003 Jerusalem 22 killed, 135 wounded Hamas Suicide bombing on a bus.

January 5, 2003 Tel Aviv 23 killed, 108 injured Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Two suicide bombers in an immigrant neighborhood

June 5, 2002 Megiddo 17 killed, 38 injured Islamic Jihad Car bomb next to bus

May 27, 2002 Petah Tikvah 2 killed, 37 injured Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Suicide bomb in shopping mall

May 22, 2002 Rishon Lezion 2 killed, 40 wounded Suicide bomb on pedestrian mall

May 19, 2002 Netanya 3 killed, 59 injured Hamas and the PFLP Suicide bomb in market

May 7, 2002 Rishon Lezion 16 killed, 55 injured Hamas Suicide bomb in pool hall

Apr 12, 2002 Jerusalem 6 killed, 104 injured Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Suicide bomb in Mahane Yehuda market

Apr 10, 2002 Kibbutz Yagur 8 killed, 22 injured Hamas Suicide bombing on bus

March 31, 2002 Haifa 14 Killed, 40 Wounded Hamas Suicide bombing at restaurant

March 29, 2002 Jerusalem 2 killed, 28 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Suicide bombing at supermarket in Kiryat Yovel

March 27, 2002 Netanya 22 killed, 140 Wounded Hamas Suicide bombing at Passover seder at Park Hotel

March 21, 2002 Jerusalem 3 killed, 86 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Suicide bombing downtown

March 20, 2002 Afula 7 killed, 30 wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Suicide bombing on bus

March 14, 2002 Karni-Netzarim road 3 Killed, 2 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Remote Control Mine

March 12, 2002 near Kibbutz Matzuva 6 Killed, 7 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunmen Ambush Vehicles

March 12, 2002 Kiryat Sefer checkpoint 1 Killed, 1 Wounded Shooting Attack

March 11, 2002 Ashdod 1 Wounded Gunman Opens Fire at Bar Mitzvah

March 10, 2002 Netzarim 1 Killed Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Shooting Attack

March 9, 2002 Jerusalem 11 Killed, 54 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber at Cafe

March 9, 2002 Netanya 2 Killed, 50 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade 2 Gunmen Open Fire on a Promenade

March 7, 2002 Atzmona 5 Killed, 23 Wounded Terrorist Opens Fire and Throws Grenades

March 7, 2002 Ariel 6+ Wounded Suicide Bomber in Hotel Lobby

March 5, 2002 Sderot 1 Baby Wounded Kassam Rocket

March 5, 2002 Afula 1 Killed, 10 Wounded Suicide Bomber on Bus

March 5, 2002 Tel Aviv 3 Killed, 35+ Wounded Gunman Opens Fire at Restaurants

March 5, 2002 outside Bethlehem 1 Killed, 1 Wounded Gunman Ambushes Vehicle

March 2, 2002 Jerusalem 10 Killed, 50+ Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Suicide Bomber outside Synagogue

February 27, 2002 West Bank 3 Wounded Fatah Female Suicide Bomber

February 25, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Killed, 8 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunman Opens Fire at a Bus Stop

February 25, 2002 Gush Etzion 1 Killed, 1 Pregnant Woman Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunmen Open Fire on a Car

February 22, 2002 Efrat 1 Wounded Suicide Bomber in Supermarket

February 22, 2002 North of Jerusalem 1 Killed Fatah Drive-by Shooting

February 19, 2002 En Arik 6 Killed, 1 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunmen Open Fire at Soldiers

February 18, 2002 Gush Katif 3 Killed, 4 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunfire and Bombs at Cars

February 18, 2002 near Jerusalem 1 Killed, 1 Injured Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Car Bomb

February 16, 2002 Karnei Shomron 2 Killed, 27 Wounded Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Suicide Bomber at Crowded Shopping Mall

February 14, 2002 Gaza 3 Killed, 4 Wounded Mine Placed Under Tank

February 10, 2002 Be'er Sheva 2 Killed, 4 Wounded Hamas Drive-by Shooting

February 8, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Killed 4 Teenagers with Knives

February 6, 2002 Moshav Hamra 2 Killed, 5 Wounded Hamas Gunmen Infiltrates Moshav

January 30, 2002 Taiba 2 Wounded Fatah Suicide Bomber

January 27, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Killed, 150+ Wounded Fatah Female Suicide Bomber

January 25, 2002 Tel Aviv 24 Wounded Islamic Jihad Suicide Bomber at Crowded Pedestrian Shopping Mall

January 22, 2002 Jerusalem 2 Killed, 40 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Guman Opens Fire on Crowd

January 17, 2002 Hadera 6 Killed, 35 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunman Opens Fire at Bat Mitzvah Celebration

January 15, 2002 Beit Jala 1 Killed Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade American Kidnapped and Murdered

January 9, 2002 Kerem Shalom 4 Killed, 2 Wounded Hamas Gunfire and Expolsives

December 12, 2001 Emmanuel 10 Killed, 30 Wounded Fatah & Hamas Bomb and Gunfire Attack on Bus

December 9, 2001 Haifa 31 Wounded Suicide Bomber

December 2, 2001 Haifa 15 Killed, 46 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber on Bus

December 1, 2001 Jerusalem 10 Killed, 188+ Wounded Hamas 2 Suicide Bombers and a Car Bomb in a Pedestrian Mall

November 29, 2001 near Hadera 3 Killed, 9 Wounded Islamic Jihad & Fatah Suicide Bomber on Bus

November, 27, 2001 Afula 2 Killed, Dozens Wounded Islamic Jihad & Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade 2 Gunmen Opened Fire on Crowd near the Central Bus Station

November, 27, 2001 Gush Katif 1 Killed, 3 Wounded Hamas Grenades and Gunfire

November 26, 2001 Erez Checkpoint 2 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber

November 24, 2001 Kfar Darom 1 Killed Hamas Morter Shell Landed on a Soccer Field

November 4, 2001 Jerusalem 2 Killed, 50+ Wounded Islamic Jihad Gunman

October 28, 2001 Hadera 4 Killed, 40 Wounded Gunman

October 28, 2001 near Kibbutz Metzer 1 Killed Tanzim Drive-By Shooting

October 17, 2001 Jerusalem Israeli Tourism Minister Rehavam Ze'evi Assasinated Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Gunmen in Hotel

October 7, 2001 Beit She'an Valley 1 Killed Suicide Bomber

October 4, 2001 Afula 3 Killed, 16 Wounded Gunman Opens Fire on Crowd

October 1, 2001 Jerusalem Several Wounded Car Bomb

September 9, 2001 Nahariya 3 Killed, 90 Wounded Hamas 1st Israeli-Arab Suicide Bomber, at Train Station
 

stormi- Go, if you don't they win. I flew to Europe 3 days after plans started to fly again in 2001. I just got back from Taiwan, Russia, Holland and leave tomorrow for Germany.

Be cool, watch your back and don't be the Ugly American. London is a great town and worthy of a visit. Don't pass up the Tower of London, see the crown jewels, graffiti from 300 years ago and the ways the Kings and Queens handled dissent in their kingdom. Reuters might have had a problem back then :)

I just emailed Cnn and gave them a peace of my mind.
Idots

#39 Anna

Me too.

#37 Wiliam

You should forward that to CNN

William (#37)

See posts #13 and #25 too.

Bless you, William.

My note of outrage and your list is on its way to CNN.

Sorry if this has been covered here already. This from DEBKA:

In London, four Middle East students recently caught videotaping synagogues. They were released as no law broken but are being watched.

DEBKA

I demand a war of civilizations!

Sorry, wrong thread.

#43 - that Debka story is from a few weeks ago (posted here, by Charles). The videographers were those "Iranian Students" who have been causing trouble in the West since 1979.

A friend of mine was visiting Leeds a few weeks ago, and there was a significant police presence outside the synagogue. She could not wait in a car outside for her Jewish husband due to security concerns.

in post #37, william listed two years of palestinain attacks on Israel and Israeli squatters on plaestinain land. He did not list a single attack by Israel on palestinians. By the standards you have just set up, he is therefore lying by omission, and all he says can be disregarded. What sensible people you are!

It doesn't matter anymore what Reuters says (or doesn't say) for that matter; or what the AP service says. After today's bombing in Turkey which has killed mainly Muslims (if they were after Jews they sure couldn't aim) and destroyed many mostly Muslim lamp and furniture businesses, people can see for themselves what these people are all about. They know only too well that if the Jews weren't there they'd still be bombed and they are about sick of it. Pretty soon now the Jihadis will have gone too far if they haven't already.

They are now a menace to EVERYONE, not just the Jews.

#46 libra
When has Israel ever sent suicide bombers against civilians?

#46 libra

You must be pretty goddamn stupid if you think that the IDF is an Islamic terrorist group.

#47 Elizabeth: I'd say blowing up bombs right outside synagogues is perfect aim, though we're lucky more Jews weren't killed. As far as the Muslims that died, well, it's certainly tragic. But maybe, just maybe, if they stopped teaching that Jews are to be murdered these bombs wouldn't have been set off in the first place.

#46 libra: You take exception with one person's post, and somehow a whole people earn your scorn? Sadly I'm all to familiar with how bigoted little minds like yours work.

I just sent my letter to CNN. I hope they don't have thin skin.

if it's a list of _Al Qaeda_ terrorist attacks, it's clear that Palestinian bombings in Israel just don't belong.

it's also pretty hard to argue that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict began on 9-11-2001.

one could also argue that the I/P conflict is specifically about _land_, and that makes it inherently different from the Al Qaeda vs the West larger conflict

CNN's live journalistic coverage of Palestinian attacks in Israel is usually very well done, hard to deny they're a useful media resource

I don't think it's easy to use this list to successfully argue that CNN is biased and wants to erase the reality of Palestinian attacks in Israel -- their coverage is extensive, they're certainly not censoring the reality of the attacks.

one could also argue that the I/P conflict is specifically about _land_

Yes, one could argue that - if one were ignorant of the facts.

Libra has probably been brainwashed by the BBC, which teaches that the conflict is basically Israel's fault and anyway we have to be "balanced".

the attack in istanbul could not possibly be by an islamic organization...after all, this is ramadan, and we know islamists do not do anything like that during this period...and the reason reuters did not list any attacks against israelis is simple:- they were done by militants, not terrorists...now if reuters were to list militant attacks, why that's a different story...///

Elizabeth wrote:

"They are now a menace to EVERYONE, not just the Jews."

of course they are, you're totally right.

and a very interesting way to successfully tackle terrorism (it's been effective in the past elsewhere) is to accompany the necessary military/police/intelligence actions with political action meant to cut off popular support for the terrorists.

ps unless of course one is convinced that Islam is inherently evil, and 1.2 billion Muslims are inherently, anthropologically evil -- a most unusual theory, and an impractical one to boot. it would also require a lot of killing (pretty hard to kill 1.2 bn Muslim people all over the world. not to mention some of them -- Pakistan comes to mind -- do have nuclear weapons. and we've all seen Dr Strangelove's ending, I guess)

#52 matteo

Assuming you're right...

Hizb'Allah have as many ties to al-Qa'eda as Jemaah Islamiya. How come their attacks on Israel don't count?

#56 matteo

Look at it the other way. If 10% of Muslims support Osama Bin Laden, that's 130 million. If it's 20%, it's 260 million. It's probably a lot higher.

andrew wrote:
"Yes, one could argue that - if one were ignorant of the facts."

you cannot deny that the peace process endorsed in the past by the Israeli govt included very long and detailed negotiations about _land_ -- ie which land belongs to whom, which settlements have to go and which do have to stay, etc. or are you saying that is not the case?
why would all negotiations have involved land?

Elizabeth (#47)

They know only too well that if the Jews weren't there they'd still be bombed and they are about sick of it.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion when two synagogues were bombed in Turkey, and a Jewish school has been torched in Paris.

They are now a menace to EVERYONE, not just the Jews.

Agreed, but the Muslims that were killed by their fellow Muslims are an unfortunate happenstance -- the JEWS were their intended target.

#58 matteo
Have any of those negotians worked? If it really was about land, the palis could have chosen land and peace years ago.

#58 matteo

The peace processes are fatally flawed precisely because it focuses on land. It ignores the pre-1967 terrorism, the aims of Jihadist groups and the continued state of war between the Arab League and their proxies, and Israel. A Palestinian state will not end the state of war between Israel and the other Arab states (Jordan and Egypt aside - though, neither are truly at peace).

ColtAbuShabab,
you have to ask that to CNN -- email them or something, I'm not the one who wrote the list. I was offering other possible explanations
(I simply don't assume CNN-BBC-AP-FrancePresse-Reuters-NYTimes-you name it all belong to the same vast anti-Semite conspiracy. sorry but I'm not into conspiracies)

define "support".
support means "willing to crash a 747 in a skyscraper" or "mistakenly seeing Osama -- due to ignorance, or prejudice, or extreme poverty or desperation -- as a viable political leader" or what?

"higher than 260 million"?
you're not saying that you actually think it's necessary to kill 260 million Muslims are you?
and even if one does think that, how can you practically (let's not even discuss moral issues) perpetrate genocide in the scale of 260 million Muslims without blowing up the whole world in the process? Militarily, I mean.

#62 matteo

but I'm not into conspiracies

Who said it was a conspiracy? I'd call it wilful negligence/ignorance.

"Support", ie, ideological support. A substantial proportion of those will be potential terrorists.

No, I'm not saying that. It will take a lot, but hopefully not nearly that much.

due to ignorance, or prejudice, or extreme poverty or desperation

a) Being intelligent doesn't stop you supporting evil.
b) Being rich doesn't stop you supporting evil.
c) Being comfortable doesn't top you supporting evil.

in post #37, william listed two years of palestinain attacks on Israel and Israeli squatters on plaestinain land. He did not list a single attack by Israel on palestinians. By the standards you have just set up, he is therefore lying by omission, and all he says can be disregarded. What sensible people you are!

No, I listed Islamic terrorism omitted by CNN/Reuters.

War and terrorism are not synonyms.

In your morally and intellectually bankrupt worldview, an Israeli response to an Islamic terrorist detonating a nail-laden bomb among families dining at a crowded restaurant are both considered "attacks."

Further, there is no "Palestinian land." The "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO) was created by the Arab League in 1964. Note the date. In 1964, Israel did not control the Jordanian territory of the West Bank, nor did Israel control Egypt's territory of Gaza. Not a single Jewish settlement existed in those areas.

The PLO charter explicitly states in Article 24: "This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area."

In 1964, when Israel did not "occupy" Gaza and the West Bank, what was the "Palestine Liberation Organization" founded to "liberate"? Jews from the Mideast.

Yasser Arafat (Mohammed Yasser Abdul-Ra'ouf Qudwa Al-Husseini) is an Egyptian, born in Cairo on August 4, 1929.

"Palestine" is a region -- like "Asia" -- not a country.

The concept of "Palestinians" as it is used today did not exist until about 1948, when the Arab inhabitants of the region wished to differentiate themselves from the Jews. Until then, the Jews were "the Palestinians".

There was the Palestinian Brigade of Jewish Volunteers fighting alongside the Allies during World War II, at a time when the Arabs of the region were in Berlin hatching plans with Adolf Hitler on how to kill all the Jews:

[Link: www.us-israel.org...]

There was the Palestinian Symphony Orchestra (all Jews); the name of the Jerusalem Post was The Palestine Post; the Israel Electric Company was the Palestine Electric Company; there was the Palestine Foundation Fund and the Palestine Philharmonic. These were all Jewish organizations.

The Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians" do so in order to persuade a misinformed world that they are a distinct nationality and that "Palestine" is their ancestral homeland. Until the establishment of the state of Israel, and for another decade or so, the term "Palestinian" applied almost exclusively to the Jews.

In 1967, the Arab League summit in Khartoum resulted in three NOs:

    - NO peace with Israel
    - NO recognition of Israel
    - NO negotiations with Israel

This was Arafat's position at Camp David 2000, and this will remain unchanged until either all the Jews in Israel are killed "from the river to the sea," or the Arab world decides to live in peace.

The issue is not "occupation" and never has been. The Issue is that there are Jews living in the Mideast. Worst yet for the Arab/Muslim world, Israel has more freedom, more prosperity, more equality, and more tolerance than any Arab or Muslim nation on the planet.
 

matteo #52, which CNN are you receiving, my CNN must be broken.

And by the way, it's not the "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict, or the "Palestinian-Israeli" conflict.

It is the Arab-Israeli conflict.
 

matteo #58 writes:

why would all negotiations have involved land?

The answer is simple:

"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."

   - Yasser Arafat, on Jordanian TV in 1993
 

#67 William

Not that I doubt he said it, but where did you get that quote?

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- Here are some of the worst terror attacks around the world since September 11, 2001:

2001
• September 11 - Three hijacked planes flown into major U.S. landmarks, destroying New York's World Trade Center towers and ploughing into the Pentagon. A fourth hijacked plane crashes in rural Pennsylvania. 2,976 people are killed.

2002
• April 11 - Truck explodes near El Ghriba synagogue on Tunisian island of Djerba. Kills 20, including 14 Germans.

• May 8 - Suspected suicide bomber in a car kills 11 French navy experts and three Pakistanis outside Sheraton hotel in southern Pakistani city of Karachi.

• June 14 - Car bomb outside U.S. consulate in Karachi kills at least 11, injures 45.

• October 6 - Explosion rips through French supertanker Limburg, off Yemen. One crew member killed. Yemen suspects remote control device was used to ram an explosives-laden boat into the tanker.

• October 12 - Bombs explode in Kuta Beach nightclub strip on Bali, Indonesia, killing 202 people and injuring hundreds. A third bomb explodes near the U.S. consulate near Kuta but no one is hurt.

• November 28 - At least 15 killed in car bomb attack on hotel frequented by Israeli tourists in Kenyan port of Mombasa, and two missiles miss Israeli airliner taking off from the city.

2003
• May 12 - Suicide bombers in vehicles shoot their way into housing compounds for expatriates in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, as residents sleep. Death toll 35, including nine Americans, other foreigners and Saudis.

• May 12 - Two suicide bombers drive a truck full of explosives into a government complex in Znamenskoye in northern Chechnya. At least 60 killed and 100 wounded.

• May 16 - Suicide bombers using cars and explosive belts set off at least five blasts in Casablanca, Morocco, killing 45 people including 12 bombers. About 60 others wounded.

• July 5 - Two Chechen women suicide bombers kill 15 others at a rock festival at Moscow's Tushino airfield. 60 are injured.

• August 1 - Truck bomb explodes at a Russian military hospital in North Ossetia near Chechnya, killing at least 50.

• August 5 - Huge bomb kills 10 and wounds 150 at Marriott Hotel in Indonesian capital Jakarta.

• August 19 - Truck bomb devastates U.N.'s Baghdad HQ, killing 22 people including top U.N. envoy to Iraq.

• August 25 - Twin car bombs in India's financial capital Bombay kill 52 and injure at least 150.

• August 29 - Car bomb kills at least 83 Iraqis, including top Shi'ite Muslim leader Ayatollah Mohammed Baqer al-Hakim, in an apparent assassination at the Imam Ali mosque in Najaf.

• October 27 - Bombers strike four times in the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, killing 35 people and wounding 230 in attacks aimed at Red Cross offices and three police stations.

• November 9 - At least 18 people are killed and 120 wounded when suspected al Qaeda suicide bombers devastate the guarded 200-villa Muhaya complex in the Saudi Arabian capital, Riyadh.

• November 12 - Suicide car bombers devastate an Italian military police base in the southern Iraq city of Nassiriya, killing 18 Italians and nine Iraqis and wounding at least 20 Italians and more than 80 Iraqis.

• November 15 - Two car bombs explode outside synagogues in central Istanbul, killing at least 23 people and wounding 100.

Copyright 2003 Reuters. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Reuters, OK go ahead and sue me.
Sincerely, tomcat

William (#66)

And by the way, it's not the "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict, or the "Palestinian-Israeli" conflict.

It is the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Well said. The propaganda seeps in everywhere.

The Arab-Israeli Conflict IS About Land

It's central question is this: How much of the ancestral and biblical home of the Jewish people shall we make Judenrein?

Arafat's answer: 100% of it, and not a grain of sand less.

What's your answer, Matteo?

I know it sounds rather dumb, but I can't find CNN's e-mail address on their site, and I DO have something to say about this.

Could someone please let me know their e-mail address? Thank U.

They didn't mention any of the terrorist attacks against Hindus in Kashmir, either.

I guess dead Hindus (and dead Jews) don't count

Interesting to note that there are no reports of Anglican, Buddhist, Catholic, etc, car bombs, sucide bombers, etc.

#68, Colt, Arafat made that statement on Jordanian television in 1993.

You can watch Arafat say this himself on videotape, available here:
[Link: www.shopnetdaily.com...]

I first saw this quote referenced in an article by Joseph Farah (who is a "Palestinian") in an article titled "Palestinian people do not exist."
 

Reruters which is like Der Sturner doesn't consider Jew killing terrorism. in their view this is liberation. Reuters stands fully behind the Islamic movement to exterminate all the world's Jews. it is a shame they just don't come out and say it. Their actions, however, speak louder than words.

#72 Tsedek

I had to dig through the CNN site, but I found the feedback pages... this is the one you want because the Reuters 'story' ran in the World section

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Needless to say, I wrote them a pithy note asking if they ever read what they run and why they didn't pick up on not one attack on Israeli citizens.

I don't expect a reply, but if I get one, I'll let y'all know.

#11 - Israelis are guilty by breathing.....

That's because they are Freedom Fighters silly.

And why is that even today, those miserable CNN boys are still allowed to broadcast from Israel?

Expel the whole lot of them!

#56 Matteo, you say

and a very interesting way to successfully tackle terrorism (it's been effective in the past elsewhere) is to accompany the necessary military/police/intelligence actions with political action meant to cut off popular support for the terrorists.

where was terrorism successfully tackled in this way?

Egypt stopped muslim brotherhood terrorists by slaughtering 20,000 of them

Algeria has slaughteres 100,000 of them

Morocco has slaughtered how many?

Matteo....killing them, like the Saudis are doing.thats the ticket

#14 etc. Stormi-Still Seething

When you get to London, if you have time and you're in the mood, pay a visit to the Imperial War Museum, Lambeth. You'll find an extensive holocaust exhibition there which is, in a word, awesome. It's a must see.

hmm not a place for sensible debate is it.

# 77 - Darleen,

Thank you very much. I've just sent them something to think about (anyway, they would, if they'd have brains). Didn't you find it peculiar to inform them beforehand if a comment is "negative" or "positive" (like in "today we're having an extremely difficult day, we'll only show the positive responses") - Odd, isn't it?

I guess blowing up kids on a bus isn't terrorism, according to the CNN.

www.faithfreedom.org Islam is the Matrix. We hand out red pills.

Join in and support a global movement of ex-muslims. Bringing Islam down from within.

Of course the list is a stupid piece of journalism but a lot of current journalism on a lot of subjects is stupid, badly reasoned, badly written trash. I remember William F. Buckley on Firing Line saying

"Most of the reporters aren't liberal, they are just incompetent."

Probably make more ground pointing out the incompetence than the political orientation.

Hm, I just clicked on the link and its rotten, I guess they took it down?

I am going to wrtie the one eyed bastards anyway.

Hey, CNN seems to have taken the list down (404 Error). Maybe they thought, "Hey, we forgot about all those dead Jews!" Well...let's just keep it down then.

2 things - on ON topic, one Off topic

I am an angeleno, but I spent the last few days in NYC - I heard a report on CNN about the "coffins returning to Dover" and what I heard was in 1987 George HW Bush allowed a very restricted coverage of some soldiers coming in to Dover. They never said that no cameras were allowed THROUGHOUT THE CLINTON YEARS as well.
What a bunch of pigs

The second thing is - I happened to get a ride in a taxi this morning with an Egyptian driver - I love Egypt, have been there many times - anyway, the big thing he wanted to talk about were all the nuclear scientists that were trained in Egypt, hired by Iraq who ended up dead. He named at least 5 men. He said that these men's deaths were never in the English press, but were very openly and flowery stated in the Egyptian arabic press.

This guy said he was naturalized American and a democrat -his last name was Mahouz.

At least he wasn't fleeing NYC.

hello everybody. Thank you for your replies. I obviously can't do justice to the overwhelming intellectualism of you all, but simply point out that Israel certainly DON'T send suicide bombers against palestinians - just tanks and gunships against children and civilians. But die in the process? Not likely,! They don't believe in their freedom THAT much!

The point I made about what sensible people you are - well that was aimed at those who believe that 'lying by omission' is the sort of charge that makes sense - if you do, then good for you - just be consistent (sorry, but thats a basic requirement of being logical).

Brainwashed by BBC? I get most of my information about what happens in the Holy Land from message boards like these, and online snippets from Ha'ertz and the good ol' Jerusalem Post.

Thank heaven four past heads of Israeli Counter-terrorism haven't said that the current policy of hate and oppression is destroying all that Israel stands for. Or that the legacy of that hate will be with the country for generations.

Go kill some [bigoted word]s, boys. Any ones you like. Nobody even wants to count the bodies.

Once again we see that the holier-than-thou terror apologists are always the ones who use the most hateful bigoted slurs.

libra #90

Of course the Brits are a fine one to lecture anyone. Their actions in Ireland, India, and in Kenya were a model of restraint and sobriety. Don't worry though - splodeydopes will one day go off unfortunately on Oxford Street during the height of the Christmas rush. If the Palis had tanks and helicopters of course they would use them, although the operating manuals would be in French and the bills of sale would be in Euros.

hello Joel - of course the brits were arrogant overbearing imperialists - all imperialists are, aren't you. However, perhaps you would like to tell us just how honourable the brave fighters of the IRA are?

And of course you are right that the palestinians would use tanks and helicopters if they had them - they are, after all, the people who are being invaded. You surely don't mean to tell me that if, say, Mexico decided to take 40% of Texas you wouldn't resist? LOL

This is a great board to see - I'm learning such a lot about the American way of thinking!

LGF is being invaded by terrorist-lovers. Quite repulsive.

hello zulubaby

aaaah that lovely american logic - if you disagree with us then you are on the other side (after all, ther's only two sides - us and them).

Terrorism is ugly, immoral and repulsive. Oppression of a people because of their race is ugly, immoral and repulsive. Two wrongs do not make a right. Neither does having a one-eyed view make that view right.

Sorry to upset your cosy little bigotry-reinforcement board. I'll withdraw to those that encourage and enjoy freedom of speech.

Go kill some [bigoted word]s, boys.

Your words, not mine. Who's the bigot? Oh, and FOAD, the sooner the better. I've had enough of you terrorist-loving scumbags to last me a lifetime.

Something that bothered me, after the bombings in Turkey, I was listening to Andrea Koppel on CNN..for a moment, and I could swear, she said something like this..'It's so tragic, many of those killed, were just passerbyers/ bystanders (forgot which one she said)..not the ones inside/ intended target, inside the.?.
immediately after she said this, she looked down. maybe she realized what she just said..
I was shocked to hear it..did anyone else catch this? I was thinking to myself..tragic that passerbyers/bystanders? vs. the intended target??
Or did I hear her completely wrong..and maybe someone can correct me on what she said exactly.

#97, Ashley

It was disturbing to see Andrea Koppel smile when she spoke about the Chinook (?) helicopter that was shot down in Iraq.

sorry zulubaby

couldn't leave without explaining to you "go kill some [bigoted word]s boys" is what is called 'irony'. Look it up.

I'll be referring a lot of my friends and acquaintances to read this board though! You really do reinforce the image people have of pro-Israeli, neo-con americans. Thanks for all you are doing to show neutrals the true value of the cause of peace and international friendship!

Perhaps the punctuation-challenged libra is correct that Israel and Palestine are morally equivalent. Let's examine the case intellectually. I know it gets tiresome to go over this again every time a new troll drops by, but once in a while, one does encounter one who is educable.

Statement: Israel and the Palestinian Authority are morally equivalent.

Facts in evidence:

Israel: A democratic state where all citizens including Arabs participate in the democratic process.
The Palestinian Authority: Corrupt kleptocratic dictatorship run by Arafat for the benefit of himself and his cronies.

Israel: Medics risks their lives to save Palestinian children and provide them with lifesaving surgery.
The PA: Terror-bombers explode themselves to kill Israeli children.

Israel: Children educated to appreciate and respect other cultures.
The PA: Children educated to hate and kill Jews.

Israel: Offered Arafat 98% of the land he claimed to want to form his own state.
Arafat: Rejected offer without countering and declared terrorist war on Israel.

Israel: Fighting defensive war against terrorist aggressors whose admitted objective is Israel's destruction and the murder of every Israeli man woman and child.
The PA: Waging terrorist war with the avowed goal of destroying Israel and murdering every Israeli man, woman, and child.

Israel: Puts its own troops at risk to minimize civilian casualties.
The PA: Deliberately targets civilians.

Israel: Respects the rights of religious, racial, and sexual minorities.
The PA: Persecutes Jews and Christians, homosexuals subjected to torture, imprisonment, and execution.

Isreal: Permits critics of government policy to protest and even serve in the knesset.
The PA: Executes 'collaborators' and imprison critics.

Conclusion: Only an O.J. juror would buy the case for the moral equivalence of Israel and the PA. As for the kind of person who would openly side with the PA over Israel... well, what do you call someone who hates freedom, believes children are fair targets, tolerates the indoctrination of hatred, and thinks persecuting Christians, gays, and women is okay?

Abu Messerschmitt (#100),

You make a clear and obvious case that relies not on anecdotal evidence or moral equivalency, doesn't resort to threats of bigotry or racism if your points aren't accepted or insinuate that your morally superior because of your opinions.

Hence it will be complete wasted on libra-thinkers.

With statements like:

Sorry to upset your cosy little bigotry-reinforcement board. I'll withdraw to those that encourage and enjoy freedom of speech.

It's ever so obvious that libre has no interest in engaging in any type of serious debate, only in stirring up shit and then trying to hide their inability to make a valid argument behind cries of "censorship."

Geeps

Point taken. But, I was wondering if, as a matter of convenience, for dealing with future trolls, I or others can copy/paste my argument... add to it... edit it... Because I know retyping these very sensible arguments every time a new troll appears (or an old troll with a new name) for that matter can be wearying. This frees up our energy to engage in new lines of argument.

Just a thought.

Abu Messerschmitt (#102),

We've all done it. Tired of the inanity of there arguments drop an enormous load of FACTS on their sorry asses.

Maybe we can get Charles to add a link to Nekama's General Memo To Trolls.

Geepers

I guess the important thing is to not stop fighting, no matter how futile it seems sometimes.