Out of respect for the American military, I'll refrain from captioning.

It would pretty much be redundant anyway.

more power to ya, bro!!!

Priceless!

Go Army! Beat AP!

Who says that our soldiers don't have a sense of humor! (Not to mention a sense of what is right).

Now that's what I call patriotic! Maybe next time our soldiers will just shoot the bastard photogs on sight!

OT, but fisking time at UrbanDictionary.

I ? you guys!

Hey, for those who don't know, click on the picture and you can "rate" it on Yahoo.

I give it a 5.

AP = Asshole Parade

All those boys look white.

Where's Charlie Rangel and the rest of the race warriors complaining that whites in america have no blood in this game?

OT but important:

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but if there's any truth to it, this may be a total disaster for the US and Iraq. Hopefully, Solana is lying as usual.
US agrees to international control of its troops in Iraq

The United States accepts that to avoid
humiliating failure in Iraq it needs to bring
its forces quickly under international control
and speed the handover of power, Javier
Solana, the European Union foreign policy
chief, has said. Decisions along these lines
will be made in the "coming days", Mr
Solana told The Independent.

Ha!

Heh. Nice to see that parts of the US Army haven't changed much. That's a good thing. What I want to know is the following: What sort of weapon is that specific soldier (the one who is flipping the bird) carrying? It doesn't really look like an M-16, but it could be. Also, what are those things on the front of their helmets for? I've been dreadfully curious about that since Afghanistan. Anyone care to answer?

Josh

#11- The headline is scary but reading the story it sounds like Euroweenies just saying what they want to be true.

If GWB agrees to this he is toast. (He won't.)

For any of you who remember the history of the USS Pueblo: According to those sailors, when questioned by the North Koreans during a propoganda photo shoot about what that finger symbol meant, the sailors claimed it was a Hawaiian Peace sign! That also let the intel people know they were being tortured. Maybe this soldier is also being tortured, by the ever loving world press. Then again, maybe he was providing the reporter with the reporter's IQ.

#11 - if that happens, GWB will definitely lose my vote.

I don't think I have to mention here how ineffective troops under UN control have been in the past, do I?

#13 Josh

I believe thats a SAW (squad automatic weapon). On the helmet it could be an IR reflector.

#11 Honorary Jewish Atomic Redneck
Consider the source.

82nd Airborne baby !!

HOOOAH !!!

I wouldn't expect anything less :-)

Damn, I love our guys! Go Army!

Thank you Mr. Soldier for expressing my sentiments exactly.

And there's just no getting around that it was a completely intentional F U.

#13 Josh

M249

#10 Cole Slaw

Where's Charlie Rangel and the rest of the race warriors complaining that whites in america have no blood in this game?

This is just a ruse by the conservative-controlled media, who went out of their way to stage this photo using the only 12 white soldiers currently serving in Iraq!!! /sarcasm off

#13 Josh: The bracket on the helmet is for mounting the night vision monocular. Binocular style goggles are no longer used. If a flare goes of, the goggle user would be completely blinded. With a monocular, the naked eye takes over until the flare subsides and the monocular kicks back in.

God Bless the United States Armed Forces.

God Bless everyone of them.

#13 Josh

The thing on the helmet is the mount plate for night vision gear.

Thanks for the prompt replies. I was considering that it was a SAW, but it looks like it has the M16 foresight and an M203 underslung, but that could just be the angle of the photo. The rifle stock was giving me problems.

Ah...monocle style nightvision. Very cool.

Thanks!

Josh

Actually if you remember the Pueblo, a soldier giving a photographer the middle finger doesn't mean "I don't like the photographer," it means "it sucks here, please get me out. "

Too bad we don't get the picture from the other side, some of this young soldiers are probably veterans already and wear the Great 82nd Airborne Division patch on both shoulders.

I see the weapons and NVD questions have already been answered, ad naseum.

You've got it wrong:

unfortunately, that's my take on the picture too.

Off Topic ... Sharon is not fuelling suicide bombers

Obviously a Hawaian trooper wishing good luck to the AP and any stray NVA who see the photo.

This gives new meaning to the slogan

AN ARMY OF ONE

#4 Clutch 11/17/2003 01:12PM PST

Go Army! Beat AP!

ROTFLMHO!!!

___

#10 Cole Slaw 11/17/2003 01:16PM PST

All those boys look white.

Dust--road dust. Nothing to see here. Move along, please...

OT I just checked the cagedprisoners.com site someone mentioned in another thread (guests at Gitmo). Lovely bunch o' fellers, we should really send them all Christmas cards to show our support.
I digress.
While there I was spammed by a popup to "send a message to Bush" about all of the immoral and illegal things his adminiatration is doing to the world (for an example of such, go to the DU board). I followed the link, and it turned out to go to the Kerry for president site, donation page.
I don't know much about how these things work, but I have to assume the popup was placed there deliberately. If that is the case I've got a serious problem with it.
One of our presidential contenders (a Vietnam vet if you were not aware of it) is courting people who support the scumbags in Gitmo? This is considered his base???
Either this reeks of desparation like a dead fish (or arafat on a hot day) or the dems have gone freakin' nuts. What's next, watchin' Dean to get some mullah to issue a fatwah on Bush?
These people suck more than I even belived. I hope all of our service men and women ask kerry if he supports saddams hit squads as well. Think they are making donations after visiting thier buddies?

Do you think that this "Hadi Mizban" was considered unfriendly? I have a feeling...

#32 You've got it wrong.

Actually, you've got it wrong. I remember the Pueblo. The sign was given by the crew in defiance of their captors, the evil North Koreans. It was not at all a symbol intended, as you imply, to be a statement against the US Navy or the USA for not "getting them out of there".

I think, in this case, it's a statement given to express a soldier's annoyance with a photographer pest who is probably in a place that he shouldn't be at that particular moment.

Check this out: Amnesty Int'l gets a clue

I tried to get away with flipping the bird in my 8th grade class picture but the teacher was on to it and sent me to the principle's office.

OT Another Iraqi blogging:
Through out these decades I lost trust in the world governments and international committees.
Terms like (human rights, democracy and liberty..etc.)became hallow and meaningless and those who keep repeating these words are liars..liars..liars.
I hated the U.N and the security council and Russia and France and Germany and the arab nations and the islamic conference.I’ve hated George Gallawy and all those marched in the millionic demonstrations against the war .It is I who was oppressed and I don’t want any one to talk on behalf of me, I, who was eager to see rockets falling on Saddam’s nest to set me free, and it is I who desired to die gentlemen, because it’s more merciful than humiliation as it puts an endto my suffer, while humiliation lives with me reminding me every moment that I couldn’t defend myself against those who ill-treated me.What hurt me more and kept my wound bleeding was that they gave Saddam a tribune so the skinner can talk, and offered him a diplomatic representation almost all-over the world to broadcast his filthy propaganda and sprinkle Iraq’s wealth on his supporters.I really didn’t understand those countries demands to take away our misery. Did they really think that the sanctions were the cause?

[Link: iraqthemodel.blogspot.com...]

I love this picture. I look at the soldiers and think these guys are unconquerable. Don't fuck with our boys...I only wished they weren't so handcuffed by political correctness and self/America hating leftists.

#10 cole slaw

[Link: www.patrick.af.mil...]

"In the Army, nearly three-fourths of the enlisted infantry are white. In the Air Force and Navy, fewer than 3 percent of pilots are black. And experts say the military's special forces units are overwhelmingly white.

The disparity is especially intriguing to analysts, and troubling to military officials, because blacks make up about 12 percent of the population and 20 percent of active-duty military but are underrepresented in front-line troops. The experts agree on one point: Black troops' job choices in no way imply that blacks are any less courageous or patriotic than their white counterparts. Indeed, they said, military service long has been viewed among many blacks as a bold statement of love of country.

Just what led high percentages of black volunteers to migrate to such noncombat tasks as administration, logistics and communication, at the same time white enlistees steered in greater numbers toward high-risk positions, isn't easily answered, analysts say. Some suggest that many white volunteers sign up for ground combat units because of cash bonuses and as a shorter-term way to earn GI benefits for college.

Others theorize that blacks tend to view the military more as a place where skills can be learned and experience gained for a second career later in the private sector. What is certain is that America's military – including the 300,000 or so amassed in the Middle East – tends to be made up of the nation's socioeconomic middle, experts say. Not the upper one-fourth, typically destined not only for college but also in many cases graduate school. Nor the bottom quarter, where lower educational levels, criminal records and physical or mental problems seem more prevalent"

OT, but highly relevent:

I am convinced that modern Islam is nothing more than Nazism, Japanese Imperialism, Stalinism, or any other ism manifesting the potential evil in every one of is. We must redouble our efforts to eradicate this plague.

A must read today: Nathan Sharansky in today's WSJ.

I'm sorry, this is just too much:

"Whoever attacks a Jew in France must understand they are attacking the whole of France," Chirac told reporters...

LMAO!

You've Got It Wrong (#32),

No, you've got it wrong.

The Hawaiian Good Luck Sign.

It is only a "secret" signal if the photographer is a propagandist who's filming you and is unaware of what your doing and your intention is to transmit a message without the consent of the photographer in hopes of discrediting his photos.

This is simple a case of F U Mr. AP cameraman.

Colt (#50)

I saw that earlier. Is he the biggest slime or what?

50, 53
Sounds about right, any attack against France leads to an imediate surrender.

Wait! I've got it! It's a SAW!

(just kidding)

I seem to recall seeing a link once to a fund being collected to buy our guys Over There desert-camo kevlar vests. Does anybody happen to have that link? The holiday guilt-drive-donation season is upon us, and that would be a cause to which I'd happily contribute.

Make that "guilt-driven-donation".

#49 rayra

Thus the "experts" looking into the socio-economic, racial statistical breakdowns of military enlistments don't know what the hell they are on about, or the author of the piece you've quoted is talking out their ass.

So you're in favor of thugs and the mentally handicapped serving in the armed forces?

#53 zulubaby

Ain't that the truth. At least Bin Laden doesn't lie about what he's trying to do!

I once had the "honor" of escorting the press in Kuwait City during DS-1. This is most definately a FU to the AP. Many of my friends who are there right now, and the ones who have come back, just about 100% agree that they all hate the press.

AIRBORNE!

I wonder if I can track that guy down when he's back in the world, I'll buy him a beer. Well, I'll be in a long line of people buying beers in this town for the joes.

Colt (#58)

I hate nothing more than liars, and that Chirac is just full of it. The attacks on Jews in France is ridiculous and suddenly he's finding it offensive!? Phuck him.

From the article:

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon warned Jewish leaders in Italy on Monday that "a great wave of anti-Semitism" is confronting Jews and that the best way to combat it is to move to Israel.

I'm on my way! :-)

OT: Well, the blogosphere's victory over lefty media on this particular issue might have been short-lived, unfortunately:

Showtime to air "Reagans" Nov. 30

(Sorry, reaganite.)

He's just saying, "We're number one!" He must be from Houston!

#46 Ploom:

Thanks (just to be clear, my #10 comment was made with sarcasm).

#60 zulubaby

I'm on my way! :-)

Really? If so, good for you! :-)

#61 Occasional Reader
DirecTV called me about a week ago asking me if I wanted to upgrade my package. It was the "showtime" package they wanted me to "upgrade" to. The woman on the line could not understand why I kept laughing!

I explained it to her at the same time I told her to remove me from the call list.

Colt: what's more, (deja vu) the EU had, just one month ago, refused to include the IBDA-C (Islamic Raiders whatever, the group who claimed the attacks in Turkey) among the blacklist of terrorist groups because ...official motivation... of "respect for human rights".

Prodi like his mate Chirac was all crocodile tears and went straight to the nearest synagogue and produced a ton of rhetoric and patted himself on the back for it.

It was nauseating...

Colt (#64)

Really?

Yes.

Really? If so, good for you! :-)

Thank you :-) Not immediately, but I will be living in Israel within the next two years (or so my plans go at the moment).

GWB managed to get off a little bird-flipping action at the media in his interview with David Frost regarding the upcoming trip to Great Britain:

I'll have a chance to answer some questions, I'm certain, from the - from what we call the Fourth Estate here, the mighty media, and I look forward to it.

The mighty media (chortle/spit).

Another Off Topic --just FYI --

[Link: www.thejakartapost.com...]

Bali bomb mastermind Samudra loses appeal
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta/Makassar/Denpasar

Rayra (#69)

Exactly! Could the man be more sleazy and insincere? Ugh!

KMA.

Rather say it in Yiddish ... Kush in toches arein! :-)

Off Topic:

Curious short article on those who have disdain for Bush but are reveling in the upturned economy and tax cuts. Interesting three-minute read.

#66 rayra

my response was a long-winded 'no shit - because the lowest-common-denominator is BARRED'.

Thanks for the clarification.

THAT'S IT!!!

I was searching and searching for an appropriate picture for my Christmas cards. I just wish I could say that was my husband doing the deed at the photog.

I sent this to my entire family - husband, brother, father, the whole damn family. And there are A LOT of us... I just love freedom of speech.

zulu! are you planning on moving here? yay!
anything i can do to help you,, just let me know!! lila tov all!!

This photo is an obvious fake. I do not see any globular clusters.

Public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American

More than half of Labour supporters back US President George Bush's state visit to Britain, according to a survey.

They were among an overall 43% of voters who told pollsters ICM they welcomed the visit - some 7% more than the 36% who said they would prefer the President to stay away. Twelve per cent were undecided.

The survey, published in The Guardian as Mr Bush flies to the UK, contradicted the widely-held assumption that the visit will damage Prime Minister Tony Blair.

It recorded improved ratings for the Prime Minister personally, as well as a slump in opposition to the war in Iraq.

And it indicated that public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American, with 62% of respondents agreeing the US was "generally speaking, a force for good", compared to 15% who described it as "an evil empire".

More of those questioned said they were dissatisfied with Mr Blair's performance (52%) than satisfied (40%). But his overall popularity rating of minus-12 was an improvement on last month's minus-18.

Opposition to war in Iraq fell by 12 points since September to 41% of all voters, the poll suggested. Meanwhile, pro-war sentiment grew by nine points to 47%.

And some two-thirds of those questioned said that British and American troops should not withdraw from Iraq now, but remain until the situation in the country is more stable.

#78 Kolya

But, but, but...bigel says they're Nazi scum! How can this be true?

#75 militarybrat
Here :-)

Coltand SA +whoever else is interested. Sorry for the long post :-)

Colt and SA, I believe I owe you this letter but gonna post it just in case anyone else is interested. And I am not the greatest narrator or storyteller so much of this is just going to be rambling but you should get the jist of it. First off, I guess I should clue others in that my boy (no, not my son SA :-) ) had just came in Satuday from Iraq and I went over there to shoot the sh*t with him. One of the first things he said to me was how f’ed up the Iraqis over there are. They do not understand civility or rules or kindness, just abuse and total authority over them. He said it was like babysitting whenever he had to work with them. Don’t get me wrong, there were some that understood more than others, but as a whole they are selfish and undisciplined without any sense of community. Also, they lacked common sense. An example of this is when they filled propane tanks for the Iraqi citizens, they couldn’t let it be known where it would be until a couple minutes before hand because of the scrambling of everyone to get theirs first. They even had to put concertina up and form a male and female line so that they can have some semblance of organization in the whole process. Inevitably some people would try to jump ahead in line and that is where the Army would show the Iraqis what a hammer toss is, using their tank as the hammer. Back of the line son ! Seems kind of dangerous, but hell, they pull up in a pickup truck with rusted propane tanks and you can hear the hissing from the leaks, and people are in the cab smoking. Like I said, short on common sense. It may look like I am painting a bleak picture but this is just the way he feels about the ones around them, and to be fair he has always been like a crotchety old man. They are doing all the good things that you hear about, well, I guess we hear about ‘em but those that get everything from the mainstream crap networks don’t. Such as opening the schools, rebuilding their public facilities, repairing their infrastructure, etc… And this is where I think a lot of his impatience with the people stems from. They are doing their best but the Iraqis want instant gratification, now, now, now. That they would rather have a 10 dollar handout rather than the opportunity to gain steady employment. This is just what I talked to him about so far, his family was there so I know he didn’t want to go too in depth with them around for fear of worrying them too much. In fact, what really sucks is that when he came back he had seen the news of the 2 blackhawks that went down and the Americans that had died (RIP) and that was the unit that he was attached to (101st out of Mosul) at the time and he said that some of his people were being sent out on QRF missions. But I haven’t talked to him since Saturday night so I am not sure. Anyway you cut it, that is a tragedy. I am going to be crackin’ a lot more cold ones with him between now and the time he goes back in December. (PS – he said if it wasn’t for his wife and kids he wouldn’t have bothered to come back, he would have just stayed over there)

#79: reaganite

They're sly.

#81 hans ze beeman

They're sly.

You mean they lied? ;-Þ

Thanks lizzy! I'm not moving just yet, but I'll be there :-)

#82: reaganite

The poll has been controlled by the shadowy European Islamofascist control panel (they are mice), manipulating the poll to sound "pro-American" to lure the US president into a trap... ;)

Right Wing Conspirator (#80):

G-d bless you and your boy.

Jamie Irons

#62

You got that shiznit straight on his biznit in da hizouse.

poor boy's only sayin "I told you i didn't want my picture taken!!!"

#84 hans ze beeman
Thanks dude, I knew it couldn't be true! Damned Presbyterians!

#79 reaganite

But, but, but...bigel says they're Nazi scum! How can this be true?

I can only conclude that bigel must have personally questioned a much larger sample that the 1002 people who participated in this poll.

zulubaby (#83 et var.):

You're going away!

:-(

I hope I can meet you in person before you go over. If not, maybe you'll see me in Israel.

Everybody should read the Natan Sharansky WSJ piece; it is the deepest analysis of anti-Semitism I have encountered. Sharansky is one of my heroes.

Jamie Irons

It's about time we all saw what the real Americans think of the Liberal Media in American and throughout the world. It boils my blood to see the media portray American men and women whom have sacrificed their lives, time, and money to the freedom of others as evil, empiralistic, war-loving devils. The AP's apparent cluelessness of that finger only expounds on the cluelessness of their entire coverage.

#59 reaganite -- "Many of my friends who are there right now, and the ones who have come back, just about 100% agree that they all hate the press."

That this isn't about the message "You got it wrong" would like to spin (invoking a preposterous interpretation of the Pueblo affair), is further evidenced by the way that the men in the photo are studiously avoiding eye contact with the camera.

The guy closest to front almost almost seems to be stifling a grin as he covers his right eye with his extended single middle finger (Any guy that went through high school knows exactly what this is all about only too well). The guy in the middle is most obvious and still pointedly looks the other way. The next guy has shades, but still refuses to look at the cameraman. The fourth guy is most obvious in averting his eyes. The only guy looking at the cameraman is way down at the end of the line, and he probably was just looking up to see what was coming off.

These guys want no part of the jerk behind the lens and they are making that plain as day. Only an LLL would read it any other way.

Reaganite

Are you trying to tell me that Hanz Ze Beeman does not deserve to die in a radioactive whirlwind?

/you know...

#85 Jamie Irons

Thanks. But just to be clear he isn't my boy as in son but boy as in buddy, etc...(not sure what you meant :-), I guess I should stop calling him my boy) I am just a lowly guy in the states, but definetely G-d bless all of them serving our country along with our allies.

#92 Stop Hillary
You nailed it. I have been on the receiving end of the camera a few times, my reaction was the same as these men.

But bird man is the best signal. I wish I could see his rank, my bet is an SSG. Not so high that the brass would jump him for the finger, not so low that he thinks the press is "neat".

Right Wing Conspirator (#94):

No, I wasn't thinking paternity...

;-)

I think I had the idea he was a buddy rather than a son. But I hedged a bit to be safe.

In any case, my sentiments stand as stated.

;-)

Jamie Irons

#93 AG abu staying out of the tornados in Htown.

Are you trying to tell me that Hanz Ze Beeman does not deserve to die in a radioactive whirlwind?

Nope not at all, they all deserve to die, die, die!

/insanity

RWC
I called my three year old in from watching "The Wiggles" on tape to see your doggy. She is DYING fora dog, but we told her no because it looks like our next PCS will be England (not sure yet, though).

Tell your buddy thank you from us here. He is ALWAYS appreciated.

#42 andrew 11/17/2003 02:09PM PST
"Check this out: Amnesty Int'l gets a clue "

Well, half a clue... :^}

"War protesters ... have staged several large rallies nationwide ... channeling their anger at ... Bush ... through slogans like "No blood for oil," "... But in an interview with Salon, Schulz said that the political left has thus far botched a key mission. "... failure to give the necessary attention, analysis and strategizing to the effort to counter terrorism and protect our fundamental right to security... It's a serious problem." "

Obviously they need some more slogans, blank picket signs, and rally locations to effectively counter terrorism. * >sigh< *

Only in the USA...

*{:^/

OT

13 people in custody after sweep by French anti-terrorism police

#91 mark

but, but, just today, in the Noise & Disturber here in Raleigh, some guy was ticked off about how all the bad news about Bush was buried and soldiers being killed in Tikrit isn't on the first page...

...and that story about the Dhimmicratic memo where the Intelligence Committee should give it to Bush, well, hey, that was so buried, I haven't found it yet.

Jamie Irons (#90)

You're going away!

No, not anytime soon. Regardless, we will definitely get to meet :-)

#98 militarybrat

I called my three year old in from watching "The Wiggles" on tape to see your doggy. She is DYING fora dog, but we told her no because it looks like our next PCS will be England (not sure yet, though).

Tell your buddy thank you from us here. He is ALWAYS appreciated

Will do, definitely. And to your husband also.

Don't let her see these. :-)Sorry, I just get giddy like a schoolgirl when it comes to my dog.

RWC:

Even the five year old was looking at those pictures and aaawwwing. I'm sure the 11 year old would to, but she's taking a shower (and about time, too).

My favorite, of course, was Rumsfeld and Animal. If my husband's picture from Baghdad didn't have a hallowed place on the computer, that would become my wallpaper.

#103 RWC

awww!

OT but noteworthy:

Iraqis hold demonstration against terrorism in wake of Italian base bombing:

[Link: iraq.sgtstryker.com...]

Is this some kind of record? The first demonstration by Muslims against terrorism that I have ever seen. Pigs fly!

#73 addison

"At both the macro and micro levels, there's plenty of evidence that well-off liberals are using their increased disposable income—much of which can be attributed to the Bush tax cuts—to sate their desires for luxury goods and for political revenge" (my bold)

Yes, I can see where people could want revenge for prosperity and a nice lifestyle.

/ Twilight Zone

#106 Mordred
During the war the local Iraqis beat up on the "fedayeen"(sp?). As I said, I have many friends who were there or still are. Most Iraqis are all for the US being there. I know three very good friends who had Iraqis try to save their lives. They didn't realize they were EOD and knew what to do about the ordnance.

That's why I like this picture so much, the joes know what the "press" is trying to do.

OT, again

London mosque thwarts Bush party

#104 militarybrat

That Rummy and animal pic was actually posted because of an LGF thread a while back. The one with the paleos getting their brand of Sesame street.

#105 LightTower

Thanks :-)

I am such a wuss.

Lead-lined leather gloves: self-defense has never been so stylish!

Maybe I should get a pair to go with my lead-stuffed leather pants. /channeling Pat Buchanan

is that a ghost (burnt by the sun)???
it is kinda late for halloween

Ghosssttt!!!

#99 Lightower
Well, I admit it's a small//fun-size clue lite, but a clue nonetheless. ;-)

#112

"flanked by his Italian wife Aisha"

WHERE?!?!

Seriously, where is she?

Speaking of cool photos, does Israel have a monopoly on pretty girls or something?

#95 Reaganite

I would hazard a guess that the guy in the photo is not a SSG.

The position of SSG (E-6) would be the squad leader and he would be carrying a M4 carbine. There are two (2) M249 SAWs per Airborne Infantry Squad. He is probably a Specialist (E-4) or Private First Class (E-3). The SAW is usually given to a seasoned marksman who has been around the block a few times.

Having said all this, if these guys are on patrol:

1) Why are some sitting around with their helmets off?, and

2) Why is noboby pulling security?

Granted they might be in a secure area. It's my old instincts kicking in

I have tears from crying so hard!! I looked at the 'photo in #112, couldn't work out what was so special, closed the window. Then I read hobgoblin's post, looked again, and I can't believe my eyes!! LOL!!

I showed this pic to my husband, he smiled real big. :)

I love the attitude of all the guys. It's obvious what they really think of being pestered by a photo op. Wonder how many moms and dads got a laugh out of this one. *lol

#116 John Gibbon (Once an eagle)
I know more than a few SAW gunners who are SSGs, but you very well may be correct. As for the M4s, my entire unit carries them or the GUU-5/P. BTW, I just got my new M4 Friday, what a cool gun!

Anyway,

1) Why are some sitting around with their helmets off?, and

Ever worn the pot and body armor all day long while humping the rest of your gear? LOL, it comes off as soon as you sit down!

2) Why is noboby pulling security?

The security element isn't in the picture, as it should be, trust me, they're out there.

OT

Far Out!

Terror futures market back in business

Better not short the U S of A

#112 thelordweirdsloughfeg &
#114 hobgoblin

LOL!

#116 Reaganite

I'd find it very odd is a SSG carried a SAW and it certainly is not represented that way in the Table of Organization and Equipment (TOE) for a Airborne Platoon or any Infantry Platoon. But I'm not here to argu.

ever worn the pot and body armor all day long while humping the rest of your gear? LOL, it comes off as soon as you sit down!

...So much so that my toenails are permanently destroyed and the top of my head is rubbed bald! :) (At least I hoping to blame that on the service!)

But seriously, we used to have an SOP that if you were outside at anytime, the K-Pot was on. You can survive a gut shot, but a shot to the head is usually fatal. Two units that did this religiously during DESERT STORM were the 1st Cav AND the 82nd Airborne Divisions.

#122 John Gibbon
Look at the pic again and tell me that with that wall to your back you wouldn't pull your pot off!

As for the SSG gunners, I knew a SFC who carried a pig. And he was in the 82nd.

John Gibbon

You Air Assault?

Nice.

My bro-in-law is back for good finally (blown disks, removed internal organs, and no purple heart to show for it), and he had 2 SAWs in his platoon (1L). But he and his squad leaders all had M4/203s.

Plus I'm sure it's not too dangerous if the pissant photoguy is there.

#114 hobgoblin 11/17/2003 05:15PM PST

#112

"flanked by his Italian wife Aisha"

WHERE?!?!

Seriously, where is she?

LOL! Have you found the "missing link" yet?

(Look at the "shadow" behind daddy's right shoulder--she's in "local traditional" garb)
___

You guys think armor is warm; imagine walking under a tent of black goat's hair with a horse-hair "window screen" to peer through. (Polyester and silk are hot, too. Without several layers of robes for a cooling effect, there wouldn't be many women left after a warm summer.)

O/T:

Folks, I know it's old news but the "Who is most evil" thread has gotten new life at DU and the new comments are truly iridescent in their LLLness. Some examples:

onebigbadwulf (789 posts) Mon Nov-17-03 04:42 PM
Response to Original message

20. Objective civilian death count...

Edited on Mon Nov-17-03 04:42 PM by onebigbadwulf
Osama - 3000
Saddam- a few thousand
Bush- tens of thousands

(Someone votes for Saddam; OBBW responds):


onebigbadwulf (789 posts) Mon Nov-17-03 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #24

28. Saddam doesnt kill his own

He kills traitors

Since when are traitors considered your own?

"Saddam kills traitors." Who knew that he was so selective?
[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

For the record, it's still Bush in a landslide.

#112

I suppose I'm culturally insensitive, but why bother to put the wife in the picture at all? We don't even know if that IS a wife. It could be a pillow, really.

AP is Anti American.

#13 Josh

Belgium MiniMe light machine gun. It is now the light support weapon of choice for the British army replacing the SA-80 LSW.

Somewhat OT, but a warning:

[Link: www.smartmobs.com...]

OT

This guy needs to get more than the finger

But the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, branded Mr Bush as “the greatest threat to life on this planet” whose policies will “doom us to extinction”. The mayor also said that he did not recognise Mr Bush as a lawful president and he condemned America’s rapacious capitalist agenda.

All the President's policemen

Don't AP photographers also think Palis with their index and middle fingers raised are making a peace sign?

#115 Ger

You got that damn right, m8!

Gorgeous brunette Israeli girls, yummy yummy! :P

Beautiful.

OT

David Frum on the worth of nations:

Together, the Anglo-Australian-American alliance can guarantee not only the peace of the world, but also liberty and human rights. No three other nations - no 163 other nations - can say the same.

#130 and #131,

That's what makes this new form of "protest" despicable. These people aren't trying to protest for the sake of getting a view across, their object is to help set up our President for assassinaton by disclosing and hindering his movements and impeding security. Ken Livingstone is doing what he can to enable then, the scumbag.

@136 Stop Hillary

If such a scenario were to happen, and someone got to the President because of such action they can all kiss their asses goodbye. I bet they have security on them right now like white on rice and they don't even know it.

Too bad mr. livingstone can't be pelted with rotten eggs. Or better yet, tarred and feathered and forced to watch the democrats debates.

I'm not entirely convinced that the soldier is flipping off the AP photographer. If you look at his hand, it looks like he might be holding a cell phone.

OT:

1. Martin Schulz, the leftist that Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlosconi thinks could play a "Nazi concentration camp guard," is leading German Social Democrats in the Euro elections, next June. I think he looks more like an Indyfascist:

[Link: www.euobserver.com...]

2. Eurobrats condemn Israel on security fence:

[Link: www.euobserver.com...]

#112 thelordweirdsloughfeg
Bizarre. Wonder what's really under that thing?

#135 Kolya
Thanks for the link to the Frum article. I enjoyed The Right Man. Frum did a series for the Telegraph addressing the British people. If you like Frum and haven't read this, it's something
you might appreciate.

#140: Camel Prophet

I think he looks more like an Indyfascist:

Really? Is there a face template for Indyfascists? Do you have a link?

@142

GAZE

#142,

Did you think of that all by yourself? Are you proud? If so, good for you.

And it is you who chides others for reading too much into a photograph. If only hypocrisy inflicted pain...

*sigh* ^^^CHARLES^^^

You know, I just love it when people try to tell me how my husband is thinking, how the people he is with are thinking, and how "most soldiers" are thinking.

I think I might have a wee bit of a clue how they are thinking.

Perhaps reaganite has a bit of an inkling, too.

And several others on this forum.

About the weapon;

I carried a SAW for 3 years in the Marines and that doesn't look anything like any of the models I ever saw. The stock is all wrong, the frame not wide enough, the barrel isn't long enough, and I see no signs of the charging handle on the right side. I'd say it is an M-4 variant, probably with a collapsing stock and an M-204 underbarrel grenade launcher. M-204s have the sling swivel that run along the side, which you can see running along the side of the gun. He does have the large ammo case on his side, but I knew a lot of grunt who added that to their deuce gear to have another big pocket easily accessible. When I switched units and my T/O weapon changed, I got one to keep assorted maps, pens, poggie bait, and assorted junk in.

Do you know any soldiers? [I do.] Do you get weekly updates from soldiers in the field? [I do.]

What are you references on this matter?

Words like 'most' ("Most of the soldiers don't want to be there...) are loaded words that tell us that you have absolutely no basis for your charges.

#152 Kragar,

What's "poggie bait"?

#146 (assmunch)

Where in the f**k do you get off presuming to know what most of the soldiers want?

***Most of the soldiers don't want to be there and are angry that they are.***

I've been in the Army for 22 years.

Just about everyone I know is or was a soldier.

Just about evereyone I know has been directly involved in GWOT in one way or another.

Soldiers may bitch about everything from the food to the weather, and you can get them going pretty good if you tell them battalion A is rotating out with 200 day in theater while they will stay for 220 days, but they sure as shit know what they are there for.

And they just about universally despise dick holes like you.

And I'm guessing they don't think much of that AP photog either, who I can just imagine comes across like a know it all who went to J-school and is better than all of them.

regards,

vtrtl

addison

poggie bait is food that aint an MRE.

as in usually far more readily available to pogues (like me) than to infantrymen.

regards

vtrtl

Just had to share this pic of a protester who is free march, free to protest, free to speak, and how she chooses to "voice" her dissent:
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Sigh, I must be getting old, because when I watch old re-runs of All in the Family, I'm siding with Archie Bunker (minus the racism and male chauvinism, of course). In the olden days, it was Meathead who made all the sense and Archie who was the dumb, Joe Lunchpail who kept dredging up his war service during Double-U Double-U Two.

Now I think the Meathead was an unappreciative, self-important, utterly clueless, intellectual snob who sneered at Archie's war record and scorned him for his blue collar status. Today, no doubt, Meathead would be teaching at the local loony campus and marching in "Stop the War in Iraq" protests.

It took me a while to figure out that Archie had all the character in that household (minus the racism and male chauvinism, of course).

Can anyone provide a link so that I may, too, join in the fun? I can't get a link for the photo from the front page of LGF and considering I am as close to a neo-Luddite as one can be, I'd appreciate any help. Thanks!

#155 Carrie Wade
Did you click on the picture ^^^?

There are plenty of warblogs that were/are being posted by our people serving in Iraq. I would advise you to read some of them before passing your lame judgement.
And I am sad to see that you don't think any other people have enough value to be freed from generations of brutal tyranny and mass killings. You must think no one but Americans have any value of life.
There are several posters on LGF who are active in the service now, and there are also the spouses of those who are in Iraq now, so don't be shooting your mouth off before you are sure of what you're posting here.

#155,

Here.

I'm just hazarding a guess, but isn't Meathead out marching? I'm pretty sure I saw his picture out there with the Terrible Trio (Sarandon, Sheen, and Robbins).

Apologies if it was someone else who was bald and chubby.

@154
At least with that tape on her mouth we don't have to hear the old tired slogans that usually screech forth. It's all about the symbolism, right?

Sorry for ranting and using intemperate language.

I usually don't.

But that deleted fellow really chapped me for some reason.

vtrtl

#146 Troll du Jour

When I was in, I knew more guys who wished we were over their actually doing something rather than sitting on our asses on training missions. The long term Veterans were a lot more angry about leaving a job unfinished or having to fight the same fight over again then being there in the first place.

For now, please go away, or I'll be forced to sic Gotrek and Felix on you.

#160 vtrtl

No worries. Thank you.

#161 Kragar(Proud to be Kafir)

Troll du Jour

Perfect! LOL!

#139 Ronnie S -- "I'm not entirely convinced that the soldier is flipping off the AP photographer. If you look at his hand, it looks like he might be holding a cell phone."

Cellphone? Please. And the front guy also happens to be rubbing sand out of his eye at the same time.

Dude, you must have missed high school altogether. More likely you were the dorky teacher that never understood why the class clown always seemed to be rubbing his eye.

@163
OMG! I spit my water on the computer!

That has me giggling worse than the latest Captain Underpants book my oldest brought home.

#158

Thanks Addison! You're a true pal!

Now that I have seen the photo, my only comment is that the press seems to show us only those photos which will portray our troops in the worst possible light and/or photos which will demoralize us at home. Don't even get me started on the drivel they write! This is why LGF is my news page of choice - at least I am getting a fair and balanced assessment of what is going on!

#163 Stop Hillary

(Swallow, please.)

Oh, I dunno--that might be how I'd hold a cellphone if *I* wanted to shoot a one-fingered salute at a stalwart foe-tographer.

Not that I would do such a thing--I'm just good at Strategy & Tactics...

I wish I could give the finger to the AP every day. Thanks (again) US Military for doing for us what we are not capable of doing for ourselves.

..and now for a nice family portrait..

say fromage...

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

Militarybrat!!

God Bless you and yours.Give the hubby a great big hug and a thank you.Most of all thank you for your insightful posts on our militaries resolve in Iraq.

Salute!!

:)

LGFNOOB

I will give him a hug in exactly 3.5 weeks when his deployment is up!

counting down...

#168: ploome

Is that from the set of Lord of the Rings? I thought so at first, looks like a Nazgul has sneaked into the pic...

171 hans ze beeman

the imam, pictured there, soon to be deported from Italy, seems to be married to the lump in black to his right, our left.

scared me when I first saw it

the lump apparently,is an Italian

OT

More war and alone, if necessary, says Bush

Damn glad he is in office.

#173: ploome

Strange that she would decide to participate in this charade. It's permanent helloween for her, sad as it is, and she decided to wear this thing from her own will. People are strange...

#168 ploome 11/17/2003 08:10PM PST

..and now for a nice family portrait..

(Hysterically funny series of links)

I know she chose an awful fate, and she *may* already have realized she made a really B-I-G mistake, but the sting of silliness strikes.

Captions:

1. (Muffled) "Oh, no! I said, "Brie!"

2. Hijab-Deluxe: Photoshop for the Soul

3. Invasion of the Body Wrappers

4. My husband went to Mecca, and all I got was this lousy puptent.

5. "She's never been the same since she volunteered with Siegfried and Roy."

Just about an hour ago another tornado in AG's part of town.

At the intersection of Post Oak and Westheimer, I had no choice but to drive through water almost to the top of the hood, as the occasional SUV would race by and swamp me out. How I didn't stall out, well, I can only thank God.

Took me one hour to go the one mile from the shopping mall/hotel/900 foot high office complex to I-610.

Lots of dead cars scattered about. A whole line of dead cars getting off the HOV lane to the main lanes on I-45

The car seemed ok, even though in the deepest water I could feel my car float a bit, although I got through. I'm hoping it starts ok. I think my brake rotors might have warped a bit. Ten inches of rain in two hours can really get the roads and bayous up. Buffalo bayou at the Omni motel flooded into the swimming pool. It'd be cool if an alligator wound up there.

Despite the several tornadoes and several businesses, churches, homes and apartment complexes destroyed ( not to mention the homes flooded), all the injured are expected to live.

New Orleans, St. Louis and Birmingham all under the gun for tornadoes tomorrow.

HOU will be about 25 tomorrow afternoon, cooling down to about 6 tomorrow night, the mild days and chilly nights will continue the rest of the week.

#168 Ploome,

Remember the movie "Ghost"? At the end of the movie those little black 2-dimensional shapes came and hauled away the souls of the bad guys. Striking resemblance here and yet, somehow, an entirely appropriate analogy.

3.5 weeks?...Must seem a lifetime to you.Hang in there.:)

#119 Reaganite - I'm with you - where's the security? And any Australian Army instructor worth his salt would be saying something like "I'm a hand grenade/mortar round/rpg/artilery round and I just exploded and your fucking dead and wounded. Spread the fuck out at least 10 meters between pairs."

Like the attitude though, give em hell.

I still have my dad's "All American" shoulder patch from WWII. He'd be proud of these guys. Go 82nd!

@176 Ed Moran weatherman extrodinaire

Glad you made that harrowing trip home. I didn't experience any of it, but did watch it continuously on channel 2.
There are more thunderstorms now developing and making their way east, northeast.
Of course my rye grass is most please with the grand fuss mother nature made today.

Grandma writes:

The other day I went to the local religious book store where I saw a "Honk if you really love Jesus" bumper sticker. I bought it and put it on the back bumper of my car and I'm really glad I did. What an uplifting experience followed.

I was stopped at the light of a busy intersection, just lost in thought about the Lord, and didn't notice that the light had changed. That bumper sticker really worked! I found lots of people who love Jesus. Why, the guy behind me started to honk like crazy. He must really love the Lord because pretty soon he leaned out his window and yelled, "Jesus Christ!" as loud as he could.

Why, it was like a football game with him shouting, "Go, Jesus Christ, Go"! Everyone else started honking too, so I leaned out my window and waved and smiled to all those loving people. There must have been a guy from Florida back there because I could hear him yelling something about a sunny beach, and I saw him waving in a funny way with only his middle finger stuck up in the air. I had recently asked my two grandsons what that meant. They kind of squirmed, looked at each other, giggled and told me that it was the Hawaiian good luck sign, so I leaned out the window and gave him the good luck sign back.

A couple of the people were so caught up in the joy of the moment that they got out of their cars and were walking towards me. I bet they wanted to pray, but just then I noticed that the light had changed, and I stepped on the gas.

It's a good thing I did, because I was the only car to get across the intersection. I looked back at them standing there. I leaned out the window, gave them a big smile, and held up the Hawaiian Good Luck sign as I drove away. Praise the Lord for such wonderful folks!

Love ya all,

Grandma

I just started at the begining of the thread and clicked on

[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

well, someone posted an anti-LGF definition so go there and vote!!!

#166 LightTower 11/17/2003 07:58PM PST
Not that I would do such a thing--I'm just good at Strategy & Tactics...

AND Labels - "Foe-tographer" is PERFECT.

(Modest bow of acknowledgement)

Thenk yew. Thenk yew verrah mush...

Say good-night, Gracie...!

Ed Moran of the Aqueous Commute:

Glad you made it. Still praying for all y'all!

ROFLOL! I needed to see that!

I agree, Fuck you!

The (dhimmi) press wants surrender. Fuck you.

#149 Kragar(Proud to be Kafir) 11/17/2003 07:32PM PST

About the weapon;

I carried a SAW for 3 years in the Marines and that doesn't look anything like any of the models I ever saw. The stock is all wrong, the frame not wide enough, the barrel isn't long enough, and I see no signs of the charging handle on the right side.

Take another look - seems to be the 'Para' variant of the minimi. Shorter bbl, sliding stock.

#189 Rayra

hmm, could be. Never saw one with a barrel that short before. Didn't know they made a variant like that. Still, it looks like it has some sort of underbarrel attachment, but I guess it too hard to say really.

Damn Army getting all the cool crap. What, a standard M-16 or SAW not good enough for them? They need special variants or "para" versions?

Just kidding guys (well, maybe just a bit serious.)

hey c'mon Kragar, you know the Marines - we got issued and rode in some gear that was older than we were.

The one experience I remember from working with the Army. A group of us from Camp Lejeune were doing a combined exercise with the army up in Ft. Bragg. One of the medics was going to give a class on IVs. All the army guys broke out their first aid kits, started prepping the needles and get torniquiettes ready. Their were 3 other Marines there and we were just watching wondering what the hell they were doing. Eventually, one of the Army guys asked, "Dont you guys know how to give IVs?" We all just looked at him like he was crazy, "No, we dont." He asked, "Well, what do you do when one of you gets shot?" I answered, "Call a Corpsman and kill the mother-f**ker who shot you."

Good Times.

I equally had my fill of Army methods / attitudes while undergoing Arty FDC training at Ft Sill, OK - the Marine students were up, finished with our PT & M-W-F 3mi runs, cleaned up and dressed in our Charlies and on the road to the mess hall for breakfast, before the Army recruits even got up for the day. Our 1st Sgt would often run us through the base BOQ area in the pre-dawn so we could bellow some crude cadence songs.
In winter, temps in the 25-35F range, wearing two sets of sweats.
Good Times indeed.

Rayra the Former Marine

Damn, I had your name figured out wrong. Made the same mistake that many have made about our Evariste, Hanan Ashrawi, etc.

Yes, I'm indirectly aware of the attitude that soldiers have towards Marines.

The meeting will commence at 1300. For civilians, that's 1:00 p.m. For Marines, that's when the little hand is on the "1"...

-As told by my brother, civilian employee at Ft. Leavenworth.

The Buick Skylark seemed to be in good shape today.

#194 Frank

What's funny about that is while the Army personnel are busy setting up meetings and getting an officer to plan and supervise the event and try to explain it to all involved, some Marine Sgt will walk up, grab some lance corporals and PFCs, finish the job ahead of time so when the meeting is finally called, he can say "Its done, whats next?"

Army philosophy - with enough resources, we can accomplish anything
Marine philosophy - with a little motivation, we can accomplish anything

Kragar, Rayra -

I like the Marines' philosophy much better - much more emphasis on individual initiative, less suffocated by bureaucracy.

Houston = mosquitos, heat, humidity (if you can call the yearly floods "humidity") ... I moved to CO, and never regreted it.

#196 Krager

This Airborne SAW gunner probably appreciates the 10 inches off of his weapon. It makes it that much easier to stuff into the M1950 weapons case that he has to jump with. Anything that makes that weapon narrower and shorter makes it that much easier for him to get to the door of the aircraft when he exits. Now if they could somehow make a shorter 60mm morter and lighter baseplate, life would sure be easier for these guys.

#180 Connecticut Yankee

Cool. What unit was your father in? Do you remember the specific battalion? Those guys were crazy back then. Jumping in without air superiority, that's guts!

Question: My son wants to serve in the military. He is 12 now, diagnosed ADHD, and takes a drug to help with his concentration. As I understand it, this disqualifies him for military service. But, if he were to be no longer taking the drug by the time he is in high school, would he be fit to serve then?

#200 Abu ME

I've done a little 'recruiting' I've never run into a case where this was a disqualifier. But by the time he enlists (or goes for a commission) he cannot be dependant on the drugs. It would be better to wean him away from them as soon as you can. If it is mentioned in his medical records that will raise suspicions.

What does he want to do specifically? There are many options (Service Academies, ROTC or Enlist). For all cases, good grades and a clean criminal record are a must, but I know I don't need to tell you that.

Before you contact a recruiter (in a few years) have him really determine what he wants to do in the military. That way, if he wants to be an officer in the air force (lets say) then you should only be dealing with an Service Academy rep or ROTC rep. Too many recruiters calling him will cloud his decision.

take care...

What does he want to do specifically? There are many options (Service Academies, ROTC or Enlist). For all cases, good grades and a clean criminal record are a must, but I know I don't need to tell you that.

Well, he's 12, so it's a bit tough to nail down, but he currently would like to either join the Army and work in demolition or join the Air Force and work with UAV's. In fact, he's building a UAV as an independent study project for school.

Abu Messerschmidt:

demolition

Here's a site he might enjoy:

ImplosionWorld.com

#202 Abu ME

He sounds like a budding Aerospace Engineer! All three services (and the Marine Corps) will be using UAVs by the time he gets to 18/19.

Just remember that enlistment is not the only option. He might look into ROTC Scholarships and the Service Academies and it is not too early to prep for those. Keep documentation on that UAV project. It can be useful in scholarship applications. Sounds like a smart guy. Afterschool activities are good as well as leadership positions in school.

More here for USMA:

Start Young

My other son wants to be an aerospace engineer... ever since I told him "Aerospace engineers design weapons... civil engineers design targets." He's not interested in serving though, and because he's half Cherokee, he doesn't really have to worry about scholarships or admission to any university he wants.

Frank, that is won kewl website...it goes in my valuable links repository. Tanx!

I'm 1/64th Cherokee, honest!

Good story about the civil/aero engineers...I'll have to tell that one around the coffee pot someday.

Actually I'm an Aero, but most of my project managment time was in civil.

The Aero industry employment goes right along with the defense budget, almost exact curves. Vote Republican!

My daughter has a friend who is a Marine (1st battalion, 4th Marines) recently returned from Iraq who expressed a similar feeling about the press, only he expressed it vocally. His problem was the absolutely deceptive reporting that is run about the Iraq war.

Lately we’ve been hearing a lot from the liberal media about the people that are complaining about all the stories they run detailing the deaths of U.S (and coalition) forces in Iraq. Our (those complaining) argument is that they aren’t telling the whole story, their (the liberal media) defense is that “hey, we’re reporting on what’s happening.” They seem to believe that we don’t want to hear about the deaths. I think it’s important that we do hear about what our forces are going through, I also believe that we need to hear the entire story, i.e., we need to be able to make an accurate appraisal of what is truly happening in Iraq. With the biased, one-sided reporting that we’re getting we aren’t able to make our decisions based the whole story.

The NFL Monday Night Football game would have been reported a little differently if the sports press were to report the Pittsburgh Steelers non-victory (loss) using the same methodology that the liberal media use to report the non-victories (losses) of the terrorist attacks against U.S. Forces. That story would look something like this:


Last night the vaunted San Francisco 49’er defense gave up an incredible 14 points to the undermanned and underdog Pittsburgh Steelers. Tommy Maddox, the former Arena league quarterback, was an amazing 25-of-44 for 327 yards for Pittsburgh, fighting bravely through the oppressive rush of the bigger, stronger, faster (yet morally corrupt) San Francisco defensive line. In comparison the 49’ers backup (Tim Rattay) struggled to a 254 yard night.

After gaining 125 yards in the first half, Pittsburgh had a stunning 79-yard drive to open the third quarter, with running back Jerome Bettis scoring on a 1-yard plunge. Antwaan Randall El, an undersized receiver for the Steelers, had a 32-yard TD catch in the fourth. This performance by the Steelers means they are just two games out of first place in the AFC North.

Even though San Francisco was declared victorious it was revealed by sources that the 49’ers had given up an amazing 21 first downs while only gaining 17. Pittsburgh, on the night, had an excellent third down efficiency of 50% while the highly touted 49’er offense was held to a pathetic 33%.


Now, while everything in the above story is absolutely accurate, it leaves out key information, information the reader needs in order to know the TRUE story. A reader of the above story would be led to believe that the Steelers were victorious in the game against the 49’ers. Instead we learn by looking deeper that the 49’ers actually dominated Pittsburgh 30-14 and (if you watched the game) it wasn’t really even that close. Some may say, “Sure, but no one writes that way.” Really? The news articles coming from Iraq are written exactly like that, although they may throw in an "oh, and some Iraqi's were killed" near the end of story. Take a story from the AP on 11/17/2003:


By The Associated Press

As of Monday, Nov. 17, 419 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq (news - web sites), according to the Department of Defense (news - web sites).

The British military has reported 52 deaths; Italy, 17; Denmark, Spain, Ukraine and Poland have reported one each.

On or since May 1, when President Bush (news - web sites) declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 281 U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq, according to the latest Defense Department figures.

Since the start of military operations, 2,024 U.S. service members have been injured as a result of hostile action, according to the Defense Department's figures as of Friday. Non-hostile injured numbered 344.


In the story above there is a distinction made between those injured by hostile action and those injured in accidents (non-hostile). In order to make the situation appear worse than it is there is no such distinction made for the soldiers who have died, some by enemy fire and some by accidents. Those of you who've been in the military (and hopefully those of you who havent') understand that even in peacetime soldiers die. In my 4 years in the Marine Corps I had 12 of my fellow Marines die in accidents ... auto accidents, shooting accidents, drownings, etc. Although the soldiers who die an accidental death have contributed no less to the cause than a hostile death it is deceptive to put their deaths in with the hostile statistics.

In talking to my daughters young Marine and friends of mine who have seen action in Iraq, the real story is that every time Iraqi insurgents attack American forces they are handily defeated, generally with multiple causalities. I believe that this kind of reporting actually lends aid and comfort to the enemy. How? If you believe your team is really winning and not getting their butts handed to them it strengthens your resolve to fight on, leading you to believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

If the press were reporting the WHOLE story and not just part of it the terrorists (or insurgents depending on your view point) fighting against our forces in Iraq would understand that the light they see at the end of the tunnel is a train … heading directly for them.

From the USS Pueblo Incident site...

... "The film about the soccer team began with the North Korean team arriving in London and driving through the streets in a bus festooned with flags of the DPRK. As the bus drove down the street one proper English gentlemen complete with derby and umbrella spotted the bus and flipped it off. The man must have been a Korean War vet and he was giving the bus the finger. Whoever was taking the pictures zoomed in on it. A murmur went through the crew, the KORCOMs didn't know what the finger meant.

This was further demonstrated in the second film in which a US Navy Officer flipped off the cameraman. They left it in. We now had a weapon! Back in our rooms we were elated, this was one more thing we could use to discredit the propaganda we were being forced to grind out. Several crew members expressed caution, but the general attitude was use it. We had been captured, but we never surrendered. Damn the Koreans, full fingers ahead!

The finger became an integral part of our anti-propaganda campaign. Any time a camera appeared, so did the fingers. A concern grew among us that sooner or later the Koreans would notice this and ask questions. It was decided that if the question was raised, the answer was to be that the finger was a gesture known as the Hawaiian Good Luck sign, a variation of the Hang Loose gesture". ...

So no, they weren't saying "ooh, this situation the US has put us in sucks". They were telling the North Koreans to eat shit and die.

Raddave9 (#208),

It's sad that the press is more concerned about promoting their agenda than reporting the news.

I have noticed that they are also beginning to show the casualty/injury/sick tally as well.

Obviously they weren't satisfied that their ghoulish death toll numbers were rising fast enough.

Just looked at that pic again...looks like the soldier on the right is doing the exact same thing, though facing the opposite direction - hopefully there's another foe-tographer facing that way.

Right on. I seem to be a little behind to day, but you have to love a simple photo with an oh-so-powerful statement.

Go Pulitzer!

Touching story.

...Wise, 21, was killed Nov. 12 when a combat vehicle he was riding in was blown up by a bomb in Baghdad..."Before he left, he told me if he was going to die, he was going to die honorably for his country, for us and my children, his niece and nephew . . . and he did," she said tearfully.

Florida soldier's mom signed for him to join

Right Click and save while you can, Best o' the Web is reporting that the AP is making a big effort to pull the subject photo from circulation.

#214 Abu Messerschmitt

Thanks for the heads-up.

Adding to #214, the Associated Press is attempting to pull the photo:

AP Photo Elimination

Editors, Photo Editors, Librarians, eliminate from your systems and archives DV115 transmitted Nov. 17, 2003, due to obscene gesture. (AP Photos/New York)

[Link: cnn.netscape.cnn.com...]

#214 Abu M: No worries. It's all over the place now. Merde in France, for one, has it.

I don't remember anyone in the press being too worried about this obscene gesture.

#218 Geepers,

Thanks for that reminder. Hypocrisy in the LLL media has never been something they've been ashamed of. AP are such tools.

They want the photo pulled because it's a testament to both their inherent anti-US bias and their profound gullibility.

I hope someone here at LGF has been able to capture it for future reference.

I second the thank you for the reminder about that second picture. I hope Charles puts this back at the top of the page. The AP knows no shame -- I for one am disgusted by their continual manipulation of the news and sanctimonious attitudes.

Geepers, you're good. I'd forgotten about that!

Nice one Geepers, #218.

More evidence of the Dhimmi mentality of Western media.

Muslim giving middle finger = freedom of expression.

US soldier giving middle finger = an "obscene gesture."
 

#197 Frank IBC, Former JROTC 11/18/2003 05:42AM PST
Kragar, Rayra -
I like the Marines' philosophy much better - much more emphasis on individual initiative, less suffocated by bureaucracy.

Comes from routinely having to make do with too little, as well as the superior 'Can Do' / Individual Initiative and Leadership push.

and Frank, the name thing? You took 'rayra' to be a feminine name? really? LOL

#200 Abu ME, seconding all John Gibson said in #201

(heh. post #223. what better post number for a Marine (grin))

Rayra:

Sorreee!!! :(

I was thinking of "Rayra the Warrior Princess"..."Rayra the Vampire Slayer"...or something...

223 Rayra the Goy wants his Zionist Back-Pay

uhhh, you a married man, Rayra?

you like chicken soup?

#226 ploome

LOL!

I still think we need a LGF singles sidebar.

Frank IBC, LOL!

RIP Ford,

The heck with the sidebar we just need an LGF bar. :-)

Geepers, LOL! Where's the champagne?

hic

(~/~)

ploome drank all the champagne!?

:-P..y u say dat?

ploome, LOL!! That's the last time we let you anywhere near the champagne!

ploome, !

I told you about that once before. You're going to get Charles in trouble with the law. ;-)

okay, waitaminute, I thought ploome was male. such internet gender-confusion Oy

sorry, ploome, you'll have to arm-wrestle my missus and I'll warn you ahead of time she fights dirty.

"Rayra the Warrior Princess" - although I did once wear a leather 'skirt' while dressing as a Roman Centurion for Halloween.

Rayra:

I wouldn't recommend doing a sudden right/left/about face in that costume on windy days. ;)

To all you pithy commentators - thank you for the enlightenment, however there is one troubling aspect of this photo. These guys are too bunched up. Tactically they score a NO GO. One mortar round could blast all of them. Someone spread the word...maintain your interval. Now, go forth and GET SOME!! Specifically, find Saddam and wax his ass just like his boys. Hooah!

I suppose we can excuse the cluelessness of the photographer --Hadi Mizban-- (or is that "hadji"?), but AP editors from the bottom up must be gnashing teeth in their ideological darkness.

238 mak

maybe they have an anti-idiotarian mole at AP?

Rayra...i am crushed...

you got a brother?

Nope. Masher.

Thanks Frank IBC #236 for showing all of us what is worn beneath the Kilt!

#129
"It is now the light support weapon of choice for the British army replacing the SA-80 LSW."

This ain't true, the Minimi is supplimenting the LSW, not replacing. The standard British four-man rifle team has two SA80 rifles, one Minimi and one LSW.