LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

CAIR Goes Ballistic Over B.C., Dr. Laura

Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 9:26:20 am PST

The Council on American Islamic Relations (leading front group for radical Islam in America, masquerading as a “civil rights” organization) is blowing a gasket (yes, again) over a B.C. cartoon by Johnny Hart: Cartoon Raises a Stink.

Did Johnny Hart -- the beloved creator of "B.C." and one of the most widely read cartoonists on Earth -- sneak a vulgar defamation of Islam into the comics pages last week?

The question was raised yesterday by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Washington-based civil rights group, in an e-mail to its membership.

Hart and his syndicate say no -- that a simple, straightforward joke is being misconstrued. That may well be true, but the 73-year-old cartoonist's history of evangelizing his Christian beliefs through his comic cavemen have left many people doubtful.

The cartoon, which appeared Nov. 10 in more than 1,200 newspapers worldwide -- including The Washington Post -- shows a caveman entering an outhouse at night, and then saying, from inside, "Is it just me, or does it stink in here?"

The first public questioning of this cartoon arose in a washingtonpost.com chat Tuesday, when a reader noted that the cartoon seemed to make no sense, except metaphorically. The reader noted that the cartoon contained six crescent moons -- three in the sky, and three on the outhouse door -- and wondered if this might have been a veiled slur on the world's 1 billion practicing Muslims.

The CAIR e-mail mentioned the moons, and also noted that Hart had drawn a prominent sound effect -- "SLAM" -- between two frames to accompany the closing of the outhouse door. The SLAM was stacked vertically, in the shape of an I, and could be seen to signify "Islam." The cartoon appeared on the 15th day of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month.

Here’s the dreadfully offensive cartoon.

And CAIR is also freaking out about comments made by Dr. Laura Schlessinger on her radio show: Dr. Laura rebuked for 'anti-Muslim tirade.'

The comments, on Monday's program, came in response to a mother who asked whether her 16-year-old daughter should take part in a Catholic high school class's field trip to a local mosque. The visit was part of a "moral themes" class that aimed to help students learn how "Muslims are treated" in the United States.

Schlessinger, a WND columnist, replied to the mother:

"This is a class on morals. What is the point of going to a mosque? ... You're joking of course. How many Americans have tortured and murdered Muslims. I think you ought to stand up against this class and this teacher. This is despicable. You tell him you are willing to go to the mosque only if it is one that has done its best to rout out terrorists in its midst. Instead of complaining.

"I am horrified that you would let her go. I am so sick and tired of all the Arab-American groups whining and complaining about some kind of treatment. What culture and what religion were all the murderers of 9-11? They murdered us. That's the culture you want your daughter to learn about?"

Advertisement

180 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Dirk Diggler  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:28:23am

I, Carnac, sense a fatwa and "unhealthy consequences" are in Johnny Hart's future.

2 TargetPractice (Abu Boom Boom)  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:29:10am

Yep, as per usual, they look for something to turn the attention off the fact that they're cheering the terrorists on. Then again, the US media is giving them plenty of help, anyway.

3 Thom  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:29:16am

I took the cartoon at face value - i.e., as potty humor.

But if it irritates CAIR, then I'm happy to make it my background.


Quoth Dr. Laura:

That's the culture you want your daughter to learn about?"

Well, it's important that the girl learn about that culture. Only not from those who would whitewash it.

4 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:29:41am

1) They're right, it clearly is a commentary on Islam.
2) Islam earned it.

5 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:31:47am
Bob Staake, author of "The Complete Book of Humorous Art," an analysis of contemporary cartooning, calls it "as fascinating as it is suspicious. When you dissect it, as a cartoon, it flat-out doesn't work, and you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what it means. But it doesn't take a conspiracy freak to see it as an odd, twisted, inappropriate slam at a quirky religion."

A "quirky religion"?

6 Guy Smilee  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:32:30am

I have to admit, I don't think the BC cartoon makes much sense on it's own. Why the door slam? And why would the character be surprised that an outhouse stinks?

If I had read the cartoon apropos of nothing, I probably woudn't have gotten it. As a slam on Islam it makes sense.

7 Barbara Skolaut  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:32:34am

I certainly hope CAIR's take on the cartoon is right, though I can see where Hart wouldn't admit it - he'd probably like to live to be 74.

F**k CAIR, and the camel they rode in on. They and others of their ilk use our freedoms and good will against us. Keep it up, and they may one day be surprised to find our good will, and their freedom, have run out.

8 Jamie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:33:20am

In fairness to CAIR, BC also once ran a cartoon that was rather offensive to Jews as well, so their premises isn't all that unfathomable:

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

9 Jamie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:34:01am

Make that "premise". Singular, not plural.

Note to self: preview comments first.

10 Michael  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:34:16am

yes, something is wrong with Islam these days. It stinks. Great Cartoon.

and...AMEN to Dr. Laura. When mosques are being used to hide weapons and terrorists, they become targets. Just as if the terrorists use baby carriages and ambulances to ferry their nefarious cargo.

So, why condone the behavior if mosques if these so-called moderate mosques don't condemn the behavior of their islamic freakazoid compatriots.

I knew I liked that woman.

11 gymnast  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:34:39am

You've got to understand that there is no Bill of Ri.ghts in Islam. The second thing is that the Islamists are NUCKING FUTZ! SlamI.

12 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:35:13am

#8 Jamie

Absolutely. I have not even the shadow of a doubt that the cartoon is exactly what it seems to be and Hart is being disingenuous by denying it.

13 Doug  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:36:06am

There is only one solution....


Remember two cities named Hiroshima and Nagasaki?


Shall we start with Riyadh?


You think this is extreme?


Wait about three--four years from now.

14 Lively  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:36:55am
This is a class on morals. What is the point of going to a mosque? ... You're joking of course. How many Americans have tortured and murdered Muslims. I think you ought to stand up against this class and this teacher.

I confer upon Dr. Laura an honorary LGF membership.

15 Michael  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:38:29am

#13 in which case, the survivors on this planet will all be caveman starting civilization all over again.

16 BookerMatches  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:39:01am

Just as a heads-up, Mr. Hart, Dr. Laura: keep an eye out for any suspicious donkey carts on your street.

17 scaramouche  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:39:51am

All the SaLAMi producers were similarly offended.

18 Barking Pumpkin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:40:12am

I read B.C. daily and ignore it when he begins to proselytize. You see, nobody forces you to buy the Post or read the comics. Saw the cartoon in question and laughed at the bathroom humor. Never saw a "SLAM" at Islam. But watching CAIR whine and seethe makes this cartoon that much more enjoyable.
As for Dr. Laura, never really cared much for her, but perhaps she, and Johnny Hart, are beginning to wake up and see Islam for what it is.
And if either (or both) get people to look around themselves and see Islam as a "religion" that calls for the forced conversion or deaths of Christians and Jews, then more power to them.

19 Lucile  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:40:14am

Does anyone have an e-mail address for Dr. Laura? I'd like to encourage her NOT to apologize when the hot seat starts to flame on.

20 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:41:57am

Methinks they doth protest too much. Really. The whole argument is based on the, "Well, the moon on the outhouse door stands for this, and the letters symbolize an I for Islam, blah blah blah.

Look, if your entire movement is about "symbolic acts" (cough, LLL, cough), then suddenly everything seems a symbol to you.

This is getting waaaaayyy too Plato for me.

I can see the future (putting on my Sylvia Brown glasses)... "He was wearing a green sweater (green is the color of Islam) as he urinated on the building for the company Celestial Incense (had moons on it, he was symbolically urninating on Islam). Hate crime statute! Hate crime statute! "

I grew up with BC. He always drew a crescent moon on the outhouse door. It's a stereotypical outhouse. And as for not getting it without the "symbols" explained, I don't get a hell of a lot of New Yorker cartoons, and I NEVER seem to understand what is funny about Pardon my Universe.

21 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:44:12am

8 Jamie 11/21/2003 09:33AM PST

In fairness to CAIR, BC also once ran a cartoon that was rather offensive to Jews as well, so their premises isn't all that unfathomable:

I'm sorry my christian faith is offensive to you. But his cartoon wasn't a slam on jews or judaism.

22 hobgoblin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:44:26am

CAIR (and those who have agreed with them here) are fucking MORONS.

Sorry, guys, but the crescest moon has been a symbol on backwoods outhouses for a lot longer than Islam has even been known by the masses in America.

This is a lame cartoon, and those of you who are so easily offended by Johnny Hart need to get a damn grip. Hart is entering his Bill Keane years, were he draws the lamest shit thinking it's funny.

A "Slam" on Islam. Pu-leeze

23 /d/  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:45:05am

So everytime we see a crescent moon in a cartoon strip or the word "slam" we're supposed to think "Islam"?

Bah. Incidentally, I recently found a "B.C." book from 20 years ago. Man, that strip was way better back in the day!

The cartoon kinda reminded me of the infamous Far Side "cow tools" cartoon that nobody could figure out and that elicited all sorts of bizarre readings, despite the artist's protests that it was just a silly picture that everybody was reading waaaaaaaaaaaay too much into.

Oh, and if CAIR is pissed off that BC is demonizing Muslims, they should check out the periodic cartoons in ArabNews and various other publications from Islamic sources that regularly demonize Jews. Hypocrites.

24 observer  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:46:47am

This is so much wind in an outhouse.

Cartoonists can make fun of what they want to, including one or several religions.

Dr. Laura can say what she wants to.

If you don't like it, you have the usual three choices:
1. Write a letter to the editor/producer.
2. Read or listen to something else.
3. Get your own strip or radio show.

The rest is bullshit.

25 David Simon  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:47:28am

#20 militarybrat - Yep. One more thing CAIR has in common with the LLL - the never-ending search for reasons to have their feelings hurt.

26 Kelly  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:47:38am

#16 BookerMatches

Is that an Islamic donkey cart you are threatening those two with or is it unarmed?

I can't believe that security services now much check donkey carts for bombs. It was bad enough that murderers were using cars and bicycles.

27 JamesW  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:47:43am

I never thought that cartoon Jamie linked to was offensive to Jews. I thought he was saying that Christianity was the product of Judaism. Hart's let his philoSemitism and pro-Zionism show through before.

As for the other cartoon, it makes sense. It's not funny, but it's just innocent quasi scatalogical humor that Gary Larson pioneered on the funny pages. The crescent moon is a tradditional outhouse door sign.

It just goes to prove that a small, narcisstic, paranoid minds will see conspiracies in meaningless coincidences.

28 elBarto (abu D'oh)  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:48:30am

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

29 Darwin Akbar  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:49:04am

If the dolts at CAIR had ever read a comic book, or anything other than the Koran during the decades they've lived in the U.S., they might have noticed that an outhouse with a half moon on it has been a hillbilly cliche for about 50-60 years. Meanwhile, their brothers are blowing up banks and counsulates, and murdering young men with a gun hidden in a prayer rug.

It's always great to see what their priorities really are.

30 LightTower  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:49:12am

#5 James 11/21/2003 09:31AM PST

Bob Staake ... "But it doesn't take a conspiracy freak to see it as an odd, twisted, inappropriate slam at a quirky religion."
A "quirky religion"?

Maybe somebody "corrected" the original sentence:


"... it doesn't take a conspiracy freak to see it as a quirky slam at an odd, twisted, inappropriate religion."

That makes much more sense. I pity the gentle souls who would like to escape from the blood frenzy. I pity more the ones who pretend the root of their system is anything but rotten.

But everyone has to make a choice in this world, before we move on to Eternity....

31 Islam Still Sucks  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:49:53am

Wow! That cartoon is definitely a comment on the out house religion of Islam. And a very good and accurate comment it is. And Dr. Laura, who I often disagree with, is right on the money here. Fuck these fake victims. They are controlled by the Saudi-wahhabi's that our Gov invited in with open arms. Sadly, I think there might be controlling interests in the US that wouldn't mind seeing the Muslims kill the Jews, even if it has to be here in America. Maybe even especially here. That, or our Gov is completely ignorant of the violent fact that is wahabbi I-SLAM

32 my kid's mom  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:50:13am

Dr. Laura doesn't publish an email address, but she does accept faxes at 818-461-5140.

33 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:50:31am

#21

Yes it was. I noticed that Christians tend to be just as offended by the notion that Islam supercedes Christianity. Yes, I know those Christians don't speak for you but its disingenuous to suggest no one is or should be bothered by such theology. Everytime people are bothered by Islam's co-opting of Jesus and redefining him in their own way think about what Christianity does to the Torah. No, that doesn't mean you change your religion to accomodate others but you should understand why people don't like it.

34 Lively  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:53:01am

#19 Lucile: Her website says Dr. Laura does not have an e-mail address. But it gives a fax number and says that Dr. Laura reads ALL faxes sent to her. Her fax number is 818-461-5140.

I just sent her a fax and said I agreed with her. I also said there are certain groups in our society that are trying to squelch free speech through intimidation (i.e., CAIR).

35 Ms. Andi  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:53:19am

I really don't like Dr. Laura for a whole host of reasons, but I'll give kudos to her on that one.

36 Finlay  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:53:40am

Hey #8 Jamie,

The comic you find so offensive to Judiasm is merely asserting something all Christians believe. Namely that Christianity is the fulfilment of Judiasm. In other words Judiasm completed is Christ on the cross. No offense should be taken.

37 Ed Moran: Abu Wore Shorts to Work  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:54:00am

I read a critique of Dr. Laura written by an Orthodox Rabbi a few months ago. I believe she may have expressed doubts about her conversion to Judaism ( her father was Jewish, her mother wasn't) because she didn't feel the Jewish community didn't support her the way she thought they should during her troubles. The rabbi basically said she should grow up.

I'm not certain whether she is a practicing member of any religion right now.

I saw the cartoon, and if that isn't a "SLAM" on Islam, I don't know what is. CAIR is right to be offended, although I think the entire American public has a right to be offended by CAIR's defense and promotion of radicals who want to see us dead or enslaved.

38 scaramouche  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:54:02am

Way OT: You're incontinent but want to go on Haj. How do you preserve your "Sacred Precinct"?

[Link: www.islam-online.net...]

39 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:54:15am

#27 JamesW

I never thought that cartoon Jamie linked to was offensive to Jews. I thought he was saying that Christianity was the product of Judaism. Hart's let his philoSemitism and pro-Zionism show through before.

The menorah gets extinguished. This is Replacement Theology which is hardly complimentary to Judaism.

I agree, Hart is not an antisemite nor is it ipso facto antisemitic to believe that Christianity supercedes Judaism. But the cartoon and the message is offensive to a lot of Jews just as Islam's "you Christians tampered with your Bible and you don't even know your own religion" message is to Christians.

40 JoeyJoeJoeJrShabbadoo  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:55:04am

I gotta say that the BC "flap" is waaay overblown- the comic makes sense in a really lame way that's typical of recent BC comics. I've had problems with Hart's preachyness in the past, but this is tilting at windmills.

OTOH Dr. Laura is completely worthless.

41 Billy Hank  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:57:29am

I sense that CAIR's knee jerk whining wears thin and, fortunately, is becoming counterproductive. Had they not pitched a fit, the BC strip would have been quickly forgotten. Raising the issue keeps the question of whether something is rotten at the Islamic core in the foreground. Increasingly, folks answer in the affirmative.

Thus, Dr. Laura's comments are echoed by more and more people. They are asking for American Muslims to declare themselves in no uncertain terms. Are their goals the coerced subjugation of America to Sharia law or freedom of worship in a pluralistic society? If the former, we have a real problem. If the latter, show how you mean it and join the rest of us in stamping out the terrorist defilers of the Religion of Peace.

I suspect it is the former. CAIR is just trying to enlist the PC press in censorial outrage to pursue a Sharia outcome.

42 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:57:48am

I second Ms. Andi on the Dr. Laura issue. I usually find her far to shrill and, often, hypocritical on things that she's done but she expects others not to do.

However, if my child were not homeschooling I'd nix the idea of her going to the mosque. She can watch the news to learn about fanatical islam - there are plenty of apologists there.

43 Daniel  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:57:53am

I agree with #4 James. The cartoon only makes sense as a shot at Islam. It is also the writer's perogative (sp?) to take that shot. Just like any writer, Johnny Hart is entering his contention into the marketplace of ideas that is our press, like everyone from Daniel Pipes to Noam Chomsky. Readers can agree, disagree or even get offended. That's what happens when you have a free press.

Being that I agree with his premise, the strip doesn't bother me, but I would recommend that instead of denying the symbolism, Hart come clean about it. A quick glance at strips like Doonesbury and Boondocks will show that the funny pages has long been an outlet for political and social commentary. Those two strips have, in fact, made extremely vulgar implications about conservatives for a long time without anyone really complaining (of course, many have vocally disagreed with those contentions).

CAIR has a right to dislike the cartoon and its underlying implications. This group however, has already showed its true colors and its arguments will (properly) be dismissed out of hand most of the time.

44 Seymour Paine  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:02:58am

I have to admit I never made that connection, but that's to CAIR, I now know the significance of the crescent moon over outhouse doors and I can promise that each time I use an outhouse I will think, "This one's for Moo-ham-mud."

45 Capt. Queeg  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:03:02am

It's a slam on islam, Sam I am...

CAIR's pissed because it's true...

46 Ms. Andi  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:03:04am

Simply amazing. A Holocaust museum is firebombed and hardly makes the news. Yet Dr. Laura and a cartoon throws CAIR into a screeming hissy fit and all the major news agencies pick it up. Pathetic.

47 DR  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:03:29am

How can anyone think Hart's cartoon is not a comment on Islam? In no other context does that cartoon make even a shred of sense. That said, who cares? Let the man express his opinions.

48 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:04:03am

#38 scaramouch

LOL. My man got the drips and he's taking a trip to Mecca. Wrap that rascal with a rubber band and slowly but surely the tissue will die and then, oh no, the kafir who shook my hand has stolen my penis. Ahhhh sorcerer.

49 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:04:08am

If you look for symbolism in every freakin' thing you see, then this cartoon makes sense as a slam on Islam. If you think that sometimes a story is just a story, and a joke is just a joke, then the potty humor in this strip made you laugh.

Look, I like to look for cloud patterns and sand etching from the waves, too, but lay down the Plato! I always hated that part of English class where we had to disect the underlying themes of a story.

Jeez, there was a guy, he wanted to save his fields, the ants swarmed, and they ate him up.

Sometimes it is NOT a thesis on the struggle between the oppressed field workers and the rise of communism! (Yes, my 9th grade English teacher drew those conclusions).

50 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:04:38am

and an e to the end and it become scaramouche

51 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:05:03am

replace and with add

Damn fridays :-)

52 gymnast  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:05:22am

The incident where a load of flip flops was sold in Riyadh about 15 years ago is amusing also. The tread design made the imprint of Allah in Arabic on soft ground and the Phillipinos thought they were really cool. The Matawahs had a sh-- fit about this and were "tracking the "perpetrators of blasphamy" down full time for quite a while. The adventures of the authorities made hilarious reading in the Arab news for about a month(until they realized how stupid they were starting to look). The adventures of the people caught wearing the offending flip flops were not so amusing as lashings followed by jail and then deportation were the standard treatment that was publicized. What the Matawahs did to the offenders they caught before turning the offenders over to the Ministry of Interior police is anyones guess.

53 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:05:55am

#49 militarybrat

If you look for symbolism in every freakin' thing you see, then this cartoon makes sense as a slam on Islam. If you think that sometimes a story is just a story, and a joke is just a joke, then the potty humor in this strip made you laugh.

What, pray, is the joke?

54 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:07:09am

33 James 11/21/2003 09:50AM PST

I noticed that Christians tend to be just as offended by the notion that Islam supercedes Christianity.

As a christian, allow me to comment on christians, just as I'll allow you to comment on jews (assuming you're jewish of course).

There are plenty of reasons to be offended by islam, but I haven't yet met a christian who is offended by islam because it "supercedes christianity." But I will agree that we don't like muslims, or anybody, co-opting Jesus. But I don't assume anti-christian sentiments simply because their religion has different ideas about Jesus (however, there are plenty of other reasons why I might make that assumption).

"...that doesn't mean you change your religion to accomodate others but you should understand why people don't like it.

I can certainly understand why you wouldn't like it. The feeling is often mutual. But you shouldn't confuse your dislike of it, or mine, with an intentional slam against our respective religions.

Back on topic, the B.C. cartoonist has his faith, and you might find it offensive, but I didn't see an intentional slam on Judaism.

55 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:08:20am

@52
Compare that sandal incident to the glee my husband felt when I sent him "Zion" style hiking boots to wear. We love the fact that his Zionist footsteps are all over Iraq.

About drippy pee-pee boy - you think he'd see a doctor about that rather than wrapping it up in cotton and a rubber band. Of course, ask the Mullah is MUCH preferable to medical care...

56 Salman Rushdie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:09:22am

My advice to Johnny Hart is deny, deny, deny.

---Salman Rushdie

57 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:09:40am

@53 James

I think some people take a long time to realize that their sh*t DOES stink (my brother in law comes to mind).

And if you like potty jokes, it can be pretty funny.

58 BookerMatches  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:10:27am

#26 Kelly

It's worth pointing out that the donkey in question is actually agnostic, but attends the Unitarian church occasionally (mostly for the social aspects).
The fireworks in the cart, however, are totally islamic.

BTW, I'm certain there was a hidden message in Hart's cartoon.
Of course, I also believe the government is poisoning us through the contrails of passing jets.

59 DR  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:10:51am

#49 militarybrat

I second #53. Being a connoisseur of fine toilet humour and all things low-brow, I simply don't see the joke. A guy walks into an outhouse. He rhetorically asks if it stinks. All outhouses stink. Where's the joke?

60 Jan  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:11:11am
CAIR (and those who have agreed with them here) are fucking MORONS.

That they are.

But they are right about the interpretation. Two crescents, SLAM inside a bar that makes an "I"... the message may not be obvious but it is clear when pointed out, all the more so since the cartoon makes no sense at all otherwise.

Islam stinks, that's a fact.

It tells a sad tale of our society that you can't say it out loud unambiguously or even admit it when pointed out. It's unfortunate that Hart didn't have the guts to stand by what he meant, but I can't blame him. He'd be crucified by the leftist liberal media, he'd lose money, and with countless [bigoted word]s among the population unwatched, unchecked -- possibly much worse.

61 Lumiere  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:12:45am

I don't have any scientific data on this, but I suspect that most of the people who listen to Dr. Laura on a regular basis tend to be conservative to begin with. These individuals probably came to the conclusion quite some time ago that Islam is not a "Religion of Peace."
What is needed are individuals from the liberal side of the Island to say the same thing Dr. Laura said and then to repeat it over and over again. However, it does strike me the greatest problem is that the "elites" or what Mills called the "Power Elite" still don't understand the true aim of Islam. Two years after 9-11, the President utters the word "Jihad" for the first time. Progress, yes, but way too slow.

62 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:13:46am

#54

But I will agree that we don't like muslims, or anybody, co-opting Jesus.

There you go.

You think Jews are being way oversensitive by not appreciating The Snuffing of the Menorah?

As I said, I don't think that cartoon makes Hart antisemitic. But just as you "don't like muslims, or anybody, co-opting Jesus" we don't like muslims or anybody telling us that our religion is "incomplete" our theology false our Torah misunderstood by us our efforts at pleasing God falling on deaf ears etc. The main reason why many Jews didn't like that cartoon was because it was a cartoon. It's one thing to believe it and another thing to flaunt the belief -- which isn't necessary to be a good Christian or deliver an appropriate Easter message. In other words, it is not the essence of Christianity that the lights of Judaism have dimmed.

Anyway, arguing about what should or should not offend people is not going anywhere. You agreed that there are things other people can assert about Christianity that would offend Christians; I assert the same thing about Judaism and Jews. We can still be friends. ;)

63 Inspector Callahan  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:15:37am

From posts 18 and 40,

Dr. Laura is completely worthless.

Anything to back that up? Is that some kind of argument? Why do you think so?

I think she has a lot of worth. She is the only "self-help" guru out there who tells some of the whining crybabies to look in the mirror to see why their lives are falling apart. The only one who doesn't allow you to make excuses for your dumb decisions.

Which is why the American Psychiatric Association dislikes her so. You see, if people looked in the mirror more often, there'd be less need for shrinks.

I notice that the people who think she's "worthless" are the types who don't like to look in the mirror at their own lifestyle.

As for Dr. Laura, never really cared much for her, but perhaps she, and Johnny Hart, are beginning to wake up and see Islam for what it is.

Obviously, you don't listen to Dr. Laura. She makes no apologies for how she feels, and has felt this way for some time.

My only complaint about her is that she tends to be abrasive. Small potatoes.

She is a tried and true conservative in every sense of the word, and her beliefs haven't changed at all. Try listening once in a whil, you might see that.

TV (Harry)

64 abu BIG  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:17:08am

I am Sam.
I am Sam.
Sam I am.
I do not like that Sam I am.
You say you don't like Sam I am? Do you like RAPE, TORTURE, SLAVERY, and all the other wonderful things Islam stands for?

(My apologies to Dr. Seuss.)

65 Angus Jung  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:18:00am

Occam's Razor, people: Johnny Hart sucks. The reason the gag doesn't make sense is because Johnny Hart wrote it.

Not that the conspiracy theory isn't fun!

66 Throbert McGee  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:18:01am

So everytime we see a crescent moon in a cartoon strip or the word "slam" we're supposed to think "Islam"?

Of course not. But here you have the crescent moon of the outhouse juxtaposed with the crescent moon in the sky and that peculiar "SLAM," which is totally out of place because the figure in the first panel is clearly not sprinting for the outhouse as though he had the runs. And the cartoonist in question has a history of using visual symbolism to comment about religion.

67 MarkD  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:18:35am

There's a stink about B.C. but this comic is apparently ok??? Boondocks

This crap makes my skull hurt.

MarkD

68 Cuchullain  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:18:47am

the 'toon, its just potty humor. Get over yourselves CAIR. Not everything is about you.

Dr Laura, even a broken clock is right twice a day. She was bound to say something I could agree with.

69 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:19:24am

11 / 21 / 2012

Muuuwaaahaaahaaaa. Our joint CIA/Mossad plan is coming together nicely my lizardoid brethren. When this project is completed, first on the list to erased from history is big Mo'. The President and First Lady have given their full support.

Physicists are looking at time travel

Pretty neat.

70 hobgoblin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:19:40am

Once again, to all who seem to agree with CAIR,

What planet are you living on. ALL cartoon outhouses have little crescent moons on them, because REAL ones do.

[Link: www.peckerwoodamerica.com...] (real)

[Link: www.walknet.net...] (real)

[Link: www.smokymtnvacation.com...] (real)

Cartoons:

[Link: www.patc.net...]

[Link: www.stuckyfarms.com...]

[Link: www.msmiyakie.com...]

[Link: www.angelscamp.com...]


These all anti-islamic?

Jeebus, you go looking to be offended and VIOLA! you are.

71 Checkpoint Charlie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:19:53am

#4 James

I roger that.

72 jimmytheclaw  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:20:15am

#19 Lucile 11/21/2003 09:40AM PST

Does anyone have an e-mail address for Dr. Laura? I'd like to encourage her NOT to apologize when the hot seat starts to flame on.

i looked and only found a snail mail address i would like to email her too

73 Jan  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:20:41am

Michael #15:

#13 in which case, the survivors on this planet will all be caveman starting civilization all over again.

And what, exactly, is the islamic world going to do about it if Riyadh or Mecca (or better yet, both) becoming glass parking lots? Combined with a simultaneous pre-emptive nuclear strike at Pakistan's nuke arsenal they'd be able to try to strap explosives on themselves and try to blow up innocent jewish and christian civilians where they could be found and not much more. Which means they couldn't do anything they aren't doing anyway.

Wake up, Michael.

The enemy isn't Al Qaeda or Saddam. It is 90% of the muslim world, and the enemy WILL NOT be pacified until they are defeated in total war -- or wiped out. Whichever comes first.

I believe it will take a WMD attack on Israel or US soil before the determination to deal with the islamic savages is found. It is sad that countless innocent lives will have to be lost before the determination to deal with islam will be found, but that is the consequence of today's non-stop leftist liberal PC brainwashing from the education system and the media.

I can only hope that eventually that determination will be found.

74 GoatGuy  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:21:31am

Hmmm...

#21 said, "well, if you don't agree, you've got the usual 3 choices"

I add to that a fourth: you have those, here in the west were freedom of speech is a fundmental right

- - - - - - -

Seems to me also that Hart clearly was making a poliical statement - one repeatedly voiced by the good posters to this very site.

But if you want to see some truely sicko "freedom of speech" cartoons, just rifle through the archives over at www.arabnews.com"...]>. 7 out of 10 are blatantly incendiary and anti American/Jewish. And this from one of the most respected "Washington Post" type online journals of the Middle East. Specifically Saudi Arabia

But hey - CAIR has a right, unknown to them in their Muslim/Arab lands, for expressing their horror(!!!) at a subtle slight from the ineffible Johnny Hart.

Keep up the good work Johnny.

GoatGuy

75 Engineer  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:21:37am

!5# Michael

#13 in which case, the survivors on this planet will all be caveman starting civilization all over again.

While I don't agree with with Doug (#13), you, sir, don't have a clue what you are talking about.

76 Ratbert  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:22:15am

I'm not a fan of Dr. Laura but I like the point that she makes that American citizens aren't torturing and killing Muslims. The way the Muslims carry on in this country one would think that the American government has plans to send Muslims to Nazi style death camps.

77 GoatGuy  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:22:54am

That was [Link: www.arabnews.com...]

GG

78 hobgoblin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:23:49am

And as a Christian, I'm not at all offended that muslims claim lineage through Christ, because their Christ is some twisted, incorrect version. It's like their use of Abraham. moslems can beleive what they want. They're just wrong. Wrong people do not "offend" me, but I'm not easily offended. I guess that's why I don't belong to CAIR.

79 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:24:23am

#70 hobgoblin

Of course all outhouses have crescents on them and of course for many days a month the moon appears crescent.

That's what makes this cartoon, in conjunction with the

S
L
A
M

so subtly brilliant an attack on Islam. Not unearned, in my opinion. But Muslims are hardly grasping at straws by seeing what appears so obvious to so many.

- the crescents (roughly similar to the symbolism of the cross)
- the slam
- the stink
- the cartoon making no sense to anyone with any other reading
- Hart's history of taking on religion in his cartoon

These add up.

80 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:24:37am

62 James 11/21/2003 10:13AM PST

Yes, I can understand the sensitivity. My only point is that being offended does not always mean offense was intended. That's my only point.

For instance, in my own personal relations, someone might say something that rubs me wrong, but I know his intentions were not malicious. So I basically let it slide. On the other hand, if malice WAS intended, my response might be very different.

And I'll agree with you that the Hart menorah cartoon was unnecessary.

81 scaramouche  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:25:23am

#50, #51 RWC

Spell check on the fritz?

82 roach[deleted]  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:25:33am
83 Throbert McGee  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:26:30am

Occam's Razor, people: Johnny Hart sucks.

Did you even read the analyses offered by other professional cartoonists in the Washington Post? And while Johnny Hart's strips rarely elicit more than a mild chuckle from me, my feeling is that a mind subtle enough to come up with:

Ant #1: My dad works in an ice factory.
Ant #2: Cool!

Ant #2: My dad is unemployed.
Ant #1: Bummer.

...is not going to be milking "poo-poo is stinky!!!" for laffs.

84 Islam Still Sucks  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:27:06am
Once again, to all who seem to agree with CAIR,

CAIR is right. It is a slam on Islam. Why shouldn't it be? Everyone should be slamming this gutter religion of terrorists, until they reform, and are no longer a gutter religion of terrorists. It is easy to tell the difference if you are not a leftist moron that thinks all things are equal.

85 Dennis  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:27:12am

"Is it just me, or does it stink in here?"

-a question they should be asking themselves.

86 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:27:40am

65 Angus Jung 11/21/2003 10:18AM PST

Occam's Razor, people: Johnny Hart sucks. The reason the gag doesn't make sense is because Johnny Hart wrote it.

Exactly. I don't find him at all interesting, and sometimes he doesn't even make sense. So I'm inclined to believe his latest dissavowal.

87 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:29:00am

#80

And I'll agree with you that the Hart menorah cartoon was unnecessary.

That's all I meant. Jews weren't pleased, but we didn't place fatwas against Hart's life. We expressed our displeasure using the same free speech that he did to express his opinion.

Like I said, I don't think he's an antisemite because he believes that. It was just unecessary.

88 Steve Hall  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:30:06am

I guess, like Gershon Salomon says, we may disagree on who Messiah is, but we all agree that when he appears, he will be Jewish (unlike Islam which states that he will be a Muslim and kill all Christians and Jews).

89 Right Wing Conspirator  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:30:46am

#81 scaramouche

LOL. Nope, just me. It is about 68 degrees here in the capital and it is too nice to be at work.

90 PDM  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:32:30am

#64 abu BIG,

(My apologies to Dr. Seuss.)

You think you have to apologize? I have some apologizing to do too!

91 hobgoblin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:33:24am

James,

The amount of subtlety required to give this lame cartoon the meaning you (and CAIR) are suggesting seems far beyond the capacity of our buddy Johnny Hart. His Christian take on the menorah was far from subtle, and his humor is frequently beyond lame. I second the Occam's razor hypothesis. Hart isn't funny, and outhouses have crescents.

92 Angus Jung  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:33:27am

"Did you even read the analyses offered by other professional cartoonists in the Washington Post?"

Yes. Like I said, conspiracy theories are fun. But it's just another nonsensical Johnny Hart gag.

93 speedster1  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:37:49am

#90 PDM:

ROTFLMAO!!

Thanx!

94 Angus Jung  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:39:07am

By the way, the "cool/bummer" one is hardly evidence of a sharp comedic mind either. It almost works as a joke, but not quite. The elements are there, but he can't quite put them together right. Par for the course with Hart.

95 dgd  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:44:17am

Dear CAIR

Sometimes the truth hurts. Get over it.

96 hobgoblin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:44:26am

PDM

LOL

Where are the fetlocks, though?

97 Throbert McGee  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:45:21am

By the way, the "cool/bummer" one is hardly evidence of a sharp comedic mind either. It almost works as a joke, but not quite.

In what way does it "not work"? It's not terribly funny, but it is a perfectly competent bit of wordplay.

98 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:45:40am
Angus Jung

Great nic!

99 Model4  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:46:40am

On the BC strip, I dunno. Either way it's weak. Looking at the second panel, how do we know the guy went into the outhouse, instead of passing by? So maybe the "SLAM" is just a sound effect.

It seems like Dr. Laura "screwed up" though, as most people will have heard those comments in the context of the current whitewash: "It's not the religion, which is peaceful and loving, only a small minority, blah, blah, blah." I don't know if she laid the proper foundation for her comments, which on their own go against the "common wisdom" for no apparent wisdom.

I do however remember her plugging a march in Texas for a group of moderate Muslims, and having a Muslim scholar/Imam as a guest on her show in late '01. So to try and say she's just out to tarnish Islam would be utterly unfair. Wish the world had more broads (and dudes) like her. She's very smart, insightful, un-pc, and has a real zest for life, to include the challenging parts.

#42 militarybrat: You know, when I was a little kid I stole something. Geez, I feel bad about it even to this day. But what I'm wondering is if I'm allowed to tell children that it's wrong to steal, or would I have to find someone who's never done this to do it for me?

100 GT Charlie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:47:17am

There was an outhouse in about 1/2 of the Snuffy Smith strips. I'm sure we could find lots of symbolism there too.

OT: Back during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan someone published a political cartoon that was absolutely priceless.

First frame: A hefty bearded ruffian in a turban with crossed ammo belts and an AK rifle. The legend reads; "1984. Noble Afghan freedom fighter."

Second frame: A hefty bearded ruffian in a turban with crossed ammo belts and an AK rifle. The legend reads; "1994. Primitive, sexist, religious fanatic...."

The drawings of the ruffian are identical in both frames.

Anyone know who did this cartoon and/or where I can find a copy?

101 Angus Jung  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:49:16am

"It's not terribly funny, but it is a perfectly competent bit of wordplay."

Yeah, okay, I'll give you "competent."

102 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:51:01am

#100 GT Charlie

I don't know that cartoon or who did it but whoever it was was damn prescient.

103 Doug  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:55:08am

OT - anyone else see the full frontal pic of Dr Laura taken by an ex-boyfriend? Two words... hair bikini.

104 JOEY  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:56:29am

Now what is about the CAVEMAN entering the SHITHOUSE under the light of the crescent moon that CAIR claims is a portrayal of Islam?

Would it be the Caveman? Could it be the aroma in close quarters? Or maybe the Ramadan Moon (they have a patent on certain moon shapes)?

I don't see it.....but interestingly enough, CAIR does!

Heh heh heh

105 Josh  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:56:34am

If the cartoon was meant to be disrespectful of Muslims, it's a damn good job that works amazingly well on two very different levels. good job b.c.

106 LightTower  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:57:13am

#8 Jamie 11/21/2003 09:33AM PST

"In fairness to CAIR, BC also once ran a cartoon that was rather offensive to Jews as well, so their premises isn't all that unfathomable:"

Excuse me. Do you know, personally, that "Jews" - not "some Jews" - were offended?

Okay, I tried to think the position through, and all I come up with is *tilt*. No offense intended; this is a serious question - how does honoring Jewish heritage provoke the same offense as pointing out a belief system is sewage? (Unless that lampstand has become a deity instead of a symbol....)

Not all Jews are offended by that testimony, BTW. Some have always believed that G-d can count to 70, and that He noticed when the geneologies were burned, so no human can know the line of David. Many have even seen that a man read a quote from Isaiah, where he didn't finish the list - at that time. (That is clear speaking - no surprises for folks who RTOM.)

Many Jews today rejoice, not at the suffering of the brethren who may still read the Mosaic blessings and curses for themselves, but at the many gentile brethren who have come to love and honor the Holy One of Israel during the "time of the gentiles."

A fuzzy-logic approach is all I can find: Some take offense at a picture that honors the noble root of Mr. Hart's faith. Why see the lampstand as a symbol of the foundation faith? Why look at it as a tool to educate christians about the great truths of Tanahk? Why learn from the Holy Book when it is so easy to repeat by rote what someone else claims is true - a system used by the Moslems, oddly enough.

Better still, why learn the Word at all? Tradition is close enough for many of every faith. Maybe the "tradition of fear" feels comfortable, somehow. (Better than looking too closely at those curses....)

So G-d forbid, this cartoon might even make more christians love and honor the Jews - then what is left to kvetch about?

*tilt* But there's a lot I don't understand in this world. To be fair, the Book also speaks of spiritual blindness, and that does leave an opening for the nations. I'll choose to trust in G-d.

It just seems backwards, to discard the reverent, but keep the atheists and those who bring in the Eastern gods. (Has anything good ever come from the East? *grin*) How much odder for a people under spiritual siege to drive out blood kin because they believe G-d is more than a student who needs the crutch of human help.

I guess part of the Conspiracy is the secret removal of DNA at midnight, so those people are "de-Jewified." (*wry smile*) It is a pity, though, that such a hatred should stand. Especially in a world that reeks of hate.

Still, security feels so much better than fear.

107 FreakyBoy  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:04:20am
Most serious historians who are students of the subject are of the opinion that the custom started in Europe in the 1500s or the 1600s. It was common practice, back then, to identify which outhouse was which by means of a circular symbol on the door of the mens' and a quarter-moon on the ladies'.

See, CAIR, don't cha' get it: he went into the women's outhouse...

108 Steve Hall  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:09:51am

Oddly, no CAIR "Action Alert", "News Flash" nor mention of an email campaign concerning this bit of Wahabbi satire.

By Ramzi Khoury
The Saudi Gazette
But why is George Bush Junior in such danger that big security measures are necessary? Select the right answer and win the right to declare your own constitution:
1. The business people want to be compensated for all the tea dumped in the sea and in the current situation of the British economy, they will kill for a buck.
2. The environmentalists are angry at introducing caffeine into the Marine life environment. Blowing up people for the sake of animals has been recorded in the past. In their opinion Bush must pay the price.
3. The English cannot understand why a traitor to the Throne would be allowed to stand before the British Government and instead of getting arrested for high treason, he is allowed to dictate policy to a British Prime Minister who willingly takes his orders and abide by them at the expense of his own popularity amongst his people; those who stuck it out and never immigrated from Britain enduring the worse of consequences, such as Prince Charles and Camella.
4. Israel, famous for assassinating politicians, civilians, anyone at any age, may kill Bush in case Blair explains to him the similarities between how America made history and how the Palestinians are making it today.
5. America today is seen as a traitor to the principles it was founded on because of its aggressive foreign policy that promotes the loss of Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness worldwide, especially amongst Arabs who have never been so unhappy in history.
6. He may get killed for the heck of it.

I guess CAIR hasn't seen it yet.

109 Mr. E. Train  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:11:37am

I have maintained that you can measure the sucess of a culture by the number of stand up comics present in that culture.

USA, western europe, Aus.... the West in general... lots of stand up comics.

Not a lot of stand up comics in Africa... mostly because the economy wont support them.

Not a lot of comics in China. One wrong joke and its off to re-education camps for them!

India has quite a bit of humor in their very active movie industry.

How many stand up comics do you think there are in the Islamic nations? picture this....

"A man and a woman walk into a bar"

a man and a woman together.. that would get him 100 lashes for even thinking it. Even worse, they walk into a bar. Another 100 lashes!

Muslim nations have ZERO stand up comics.... ergo they are failed cultures by my measure.

110 AlienWorkShop Boy  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:16:13am

106 LightTower 11/21/2003 10:57AM PST

Well said!

As a Christian, I'm very saddened by the fact that Christians have also persecuted and hated Jewish people in the past. :(

I sincerely hope that relations between Christians and the Jewish people have drastically changed for the better.

You know, last night I happened to be browsing through an on-line photo album of pictures from a Bar-Mitzvah (Did I spell that right? Apologies if I didn't). Looking at the pictures of Jewish people celebrating made me think of how incredibly stupid and sickening anti-Semitism is. How can these people be hated so much? You can't prove to me that these people I saw in the pictures "rule the world by proxy". Show me one picture of a Jewish person sacrificing a Christian or a Muslim to make unleavened bread (or however that inane rant goes)! These people don't deserve to be labelled a danger to the world. That's because they aren't! I thought to myself, "...no more, these people have suffered enough." NEVER AGAIN! If there's ever another war like WWII where the Holocaust happens again, SIGN ME UP TO FIGHT!

Sorry...Getting all choked up here. *sniff*

111 zulubaby  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:23:44am
America today is seen as a traitor to the principles it was founded on because of its aggressive foreign policy that promotes the loss of Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness worldwide, especially amongst Arabs who have never been so unhappy in history.

Oh, poor things, it just breaks my heart.

112 intense  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:25:08am

#80 Neo_Con and #87 James

Please send your contact information to Johnny Hart so he can determine in advance of publication whether you think his intended speech or expression is "necessary."

113 PDM  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:26:01am

#96 hobgoblin,

A cat with peyos? That's unheard of! Besides, getting him circumcised was hard enough.

on topic:
What really makes the cartoon funny is that CAIR is whining about it. Otherwise, it would have been just another unnoticed B.C. comic strip.

Thank you CAIR!

114 Mark  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:28:17am

I think it is worthwhile to stand up to the C.I.A.R. and to the Post on this issue. It might seem silly to argue over potty humor and a lame B.C. cartoon, but this tempest-in-a-teapot highlights some more important issues, especially the issues of intimidation, yellow journalism, and post-modernism.

Gene Weingarten's article is appalling. First of all, notice how he employs the sleezy journalistic trick of attributing indictments to an unknown, unnamed "many":
"...left many people doubtful"
"Many Jewish readers were outraged..."
"To many, his explanation seemed hollow..."
HOW many? WHO are these "many"? WHAT exactly did these "many" say, and WHERE can I read what they said? Are they really "many", or are they merely "some", or "a few"?

Secondly, he uses unprofessional phrasings that display his bias:
"That may well be true, but the 73-year-old cartoonist's history of evangelizing..."
"Hart has gotten into trouble..."
"A fair question. Maybe because he had never tried anything this incendiary before?"
"But was it right to do it subversively, in what would amount to an act of intellectual sabotage?"
"Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR's spokesman, underscored the stealth..." [not the "alleged stealth"]
Newspapers have really dropped their guard about this kind of biased language. I'm particularly surprised that the editors of the Washington Post felt that this was OK to print, and that it didn't need some editing to make the language more even-handed.

Third, the reporter dances through the motions of doing some "objective investigation" by interview some of the cartoonist's peers -- but how were these six selected? But more importantly, the reporter omits the obvious step, which would be to go to the library, grap a stack of cartoon compilation books by various cartoonists through the years, and flip through them looking for cartoons involving night-time and outhouses, and see what's conventional among the majority of cartoonists.

* Night-time in cartoons is indicated by the moon in the sky, and unless the cartoon requires a full moon because of a werewolf reference, it's going to be a crescent moon, because crescent moons convey the intended information succincly and unambigously.

* Cartoon out-houses ALWAYS have crescent-shaped windows.

* Out-house humor is an old staple of cartoons, as well as novelty songs, vaudeville, etc., etc.

* Part of the humor (such as it is) of outhouses is their inconvenience, especially the inconvenience of using them at night. Cartoons and jokes about outhouses are very frequently set at night.

* Another frequent aspect of outhouse humor is the notion that outhouses are usually dilapidated, and that the door doesn't shut properly. Hence the slamming.

* Another frequent aspect of potty humor is the old, worn-out "joke", "Who farted?" That's the punchline in this B.C. cartoon. It's old, it's dumb, it's B.C. Whatever.

Getting back to the article, the reporter interviews a single professor of semiotics. Is his view representative of his profession? Does this particular professor have any ties to the reporter, or to C.A.I.R.? Likewise, on the charges of previous insensitivities, the reporter does not identify or quantify the accusations, and gives short shrift to any alternative points of view.

Finally, of course, the reporter did not link to the original cartoon.

I've never been a big fan of B.C., but this article is a vicious hatchet job, and I think it behooves us to be vigilant and alert against
* yellow journalism,
* post-modernism, and
* political correctness
I think it would be worthwhile for as many people as possible to send a message of disapproval to the Washington Post at:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
and a message of support to Johnny Hart at:
[Link: creators.com...]

115 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:28:18am

especially amongst Arabs who have never been so unhappy in history.

To quote a fellow LGF poster:

waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!
waaaaaahaaaaaaa !!!!!! joooooooooooos !!!!

116 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:30:23am

112 intense 11/21/2003 11:25AM PST

Please send your contact information to Johnny Hart so he can determine in advance of publication whether you think his intended speech or expression is "necessary."

I'm not entirely certain your post was necessary. May I forward that contact information to you as well?

117 zulubaby  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:33:44am

There is no way in this world that I would have associated this cartoon with Islam if CAIR hadn't pointed it out. It's not funny either way, it's boring, as are CAIR who are a bunch of drips. Should CAIR ever criticize the despicable anti-Semitism in the cartoons of the Arab world, I may pay some attention to them. Until then, they can kush. Bloody hypocrites.

118 Jamie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:37:04am

#21 Neo_Con

Don't be an idiot, I don't find Christianity offensive in the least. Your sophistry doesn't apeak much of you, sir.

119 Frank IBC, Abu Dabah Duw  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:37:49am

Charles -

You are d--ned lucky I had nothing in my mouth when I read this.

1) CAIR is right, there is a hidden message in the cartoon.

2) F**k CAIR to Hell anyway.

120 Frank IBC, Abu Dabah Duw  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:38:32am

This should give our PDM lots of inspiration. ;)

121 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:41:37am

#112 intense

Please send your contact information to Johnny Hart so he can determine in advance of publication whether you think his intended speech or expression is "necessary."

I guess only Johnny Hart or others "intense" approves of are entitled to exercise free speech, huh?

122 Jamie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:43:35am

#106,

I didn't say "all Jews" or "the Jews" just "Jews". It wasn't meant to indicate offense taken by the entire community.

123 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:47:20am

@99

What are you talking about?

124 zulubaby  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:48:40am

Oooh, let the seething begin!

British Minister compares terrorism to Nazim, tyranny

"Democracy has no place for terrorism and - like Nazism and other forms of tyranny - it must be defeated by the common will and determination of all who live under rule of law and in democratic freedom."
125 PDM  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:50:47am

#120 Frank IBC, Abu Dabah Duw,

lots of inspiration. ;)

Well, I thought of putting Ibrahim Hooper's head on the Zappa Crappa poster, but I figured that would be an insult to Zappa and toilets. Besides, the folks at CAIR are really more like a cesspool.
In light of that, it is absurd to associate Islam with the modern technology of an outhouse.

126 sefton  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:52:40am

Last week they were seething about South
Park, now it's B.C.
When do they start bitching about Aquaman? SpongeBob? The Green Hornet?
HeeHaw? And that gosh awful Friends?

127 AlienWorkShop Boy  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:53:32am

#99 Model4 11/21/2003 10:46AM PST

"...But what I'm wondering is if I'm allowed to tell children that it's wrong to steal, or would I have to find someone who's never done this to do it for me?"

You're starting to sound like a Christian theologian. ;)

Makes sense to me.

128 Papijoe  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 9:55:18am

110 AlienWorkShop Boy

Nice post. If I mess this up, someone please correct me. I was reading recently that there are three pillars of Judaism. The first is Torah or the Law as laid down in scripture. The second is worship. Originally this was offerings to G-d in the form of animal sacrefice, but after the destruction of the last temple it has become prayer. The third is kindness.
This really got me thinking. Looking back at other ancient cultures, even those we are proud of like the Greeks and Romans, its seems that despite their acheivements, they weren't kind. In fact they were downright cruel for the most part. Now in the Western world we seem to take this concept for granted. I'm pretty convinced now that kindness is a legacy of Judaism, and it is very likely that Judaism is it's sole source. And what does that say about the enemies of the Jews?

129 cba  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:06:26am

#128: In the Talmud it says something to the effect that g'milut hasadim (acts of lovingkindness) are as effective an atonement as animal sacrifices were before the Temple was destroyed.

BTW, I didn't like the cartoon of the menorah burning away and turning into a cross--my reaction was that this was Replacement Theology. He might have meant it to honour the roots of Christianity, but that's not how I took it. But dont' worry--I have no intention of issuing a fatwa.

130 erp  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:16:06am

Right on Dr. Laura.

If Muslims want us to believe they're not all terrorists, they need to do a lot better than complaining when they don't think they're being treated fairly.

I might believe they're not all terrorists when I hear loud and clear comdemnation of terrorist activity and ousting of terrorist cells from the mosques.

That hasn't happened and everything that has happened has pointed to just the opposite.

So habibi, if the shoe fits . . .

131 jimmytheclaw  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:17:36am

someone in dr lauras area can you simply fax her this thread with all the positive comments unfortunately no modem in my pc so i cant

132 Papijoe  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:18:22am

#129 cba

Just curious, are you from the UK? I ask because I remember replacement theology being discussed at LGF a while ago, and I had never heard of it. When I did some research I found out it traced back to some kooks in the 19th C called British Israelites. This odious and scripturally erroneous idea that G-d no longer honors his promises to the Chosen People seems to have persisted in pockets in the UK. Every American evangelical I've ever encountered who was familiar with replacement theology repudiated it in the strongest terms.

133 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:22:54am

I really don't give a rat's ass what offends these "pigs and monkeys" and their status-freak LLL homicide-toadies.
These bastards indulge routinely in every form of invective, satire, and insult in an effort to avoid the rational exchange they are bound to lose. They conceal this behind the fig leaf of free expression and sneer at anyone who questions or opposes it (authoritarians that they are, their sneering is supposed to persuade us).
Here's a message for you, Bush=Hitler fuckwits, Dr. L and Johnny Hart also have the right of free expression. You may hate it and find that it cramps your style, but there is damned little you can do about it.
No power, no Left.

134 D. Edgren  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:29:55am

I have to agree with the folks who make the "stopped clock-Dr. Laura" connection. She's generally about as preachy and strident (and consequently about as welcome on my radio) as any Jizzlam "holy" man on any given day.

The French (ah, bless them, for they also are correct about as often as that stopped clock) have a saying that also fits-

Even a blind pig will find an acorn.

I'd forgotten about the good Doctor baring a little bit more than, uh, her convictions. Links like the following aren't too hard to find... (WARNING, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED OR HAVE A PARTICULAR IDEAL OF THE HUMAN FORM IN YOUR MIND YOU WANT TO PRESERVE UNSULLIED BY WAY-TOO-GRAPHIC REALITY)

More than you ever wanted to know about Dr. Laura

That's my two cents.


D. Edgren

135 James  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:30:49am

#132 Papijoe

Replacement Theology was mainstream Christianity (even if not named) for most of the past 19 centuries. Perhaps it got its name from the British Israelites, but all churches taught and believed that the Jews were superceded by a second covenant with the church. RP holds that in the prophets where something positive is said about "Israel" it refers to the spiritual Israel, the Church. Where it says "Israel" in a negative sense, as the prophets were wont to criticize their own people, it refers to the literal Israel, the Jews. That something, huh?

It is basically only a modern development that many churches have come to repudiate it and embrace instead what is now called Covenant or Dispensational Theology, which holds that God's covenenant with the Jews remains valid and there is another covenant that God made with the church, and both are valid side by side.

136 ploome  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:32:25am

#132 Papijoe


Anglicans and replacement theology..

its evil

[Link: www.christchurch-virginiawater.co.uk...]

this individual seems to be the quite fervent

[Link: www.virginiawater.co.uk...]

137 ploome  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:38:08am

oy

its really shabby, when one attempts to argue, that because Dr Laura has a less than 'playboy' body, she is somehow not legitimate?

ugh....somehow this is simply petty and nasty

138 Barking Pumpkin  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:46:39am

#90 PDM

ROFLMAO!

139 Maui Girl  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:50:34am

Okay folks, Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, whatever. Bottom line again is that radical Islam (and it's silent moderates) are the enemy. Islam preaches conversion, subversion or death -- all against the infidels (anyone other than a strict, follow the rules Muslim).

Stop nitpicking each other and keep focused on who the real perpetrators of hate are.

My two cents.

140 John B  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:54:09am

Re: #134 D Edgren

Arrgh!! You beat me with the Dr. Laura pics. Pretty good looking she was.

Good for Dr. Laura. She may be preachy and strident but she doesn't advocate blowing up or beheading non-believers unlike a certain RoPMA.

Finally, someone with the balls to stand up to the PC's and tell them to piss off.

141 Papijoe  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:54:29am

James 135

I guess it's just common sense that Dispensational Theology is recent. With a few exceptions like Corrie ten Boom and Bonhoffer, Christians did bubkes during the Holocaust.

ploom 136

Replacement Theology is apparently alive and well in the Anglican church. On his website he takes pains to call Israel "Palestine" or "The Holy Land". As a Christian I'm ashamed of people like this. How can you claim to love Christ and hate the Jews? It's a seriously screwed up doctrine.

Thank you both for the G-2. Very enlightening

142 D. Edgren  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 10:55:58am

#139 Maui Girl

I'll take your two cents as a call of my two cents and fold. I think you are right on target. I may not necessarily care for some of the bedfellows, but it is necessary that we all stay focused on what the real issue is here.

Thanks for throwing some cold water where I deserved it.


D. Edgren

143 tictoc  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 11:19:49am

Go Dr. Laura !!!

144 Rayra has 1,050 links in his Political Favorites  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 11:21:23am
#49 militarybrat 11/21/2003 10:04AM PST
Jeez, there was a guy, he wanted to save his fields, the ants swarmed, and they ate him up.

Sometimes it is NOT a thesis on the struggle between the oppressed field workers and the rise of communism! (Yes, my 9th grade English teacher drew those conclusions).

b-b-but they were RED ants!
/LLLoon


The ROP MURDERS people every day. CAIR can get bent. A cartoon? An (albeit damaged-goods) anchor of a radio talk show expressing her own FREEDOM OF RELIGION? - as another poster stated - there is REAL news about religious and international atrocities going on, and our media feeds us THIS? Laci? Michael Pedophile??? THAT's the outrage, here.

145 Rayra has 1,050 links in his Political Favorites  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 11:33:39am
#63 Inspector Callahan 11/21/2003 10:15AM PST
From posts 18 and 40,

'Dr. Laura is completely worthless.'

Anything to back that up? Is that some kind of argument? Why do you think so?


I don't care if her appreciation of Islam matches my own -
I've pointed it out in another thread here - Dr Laura preaches family values and communication within relationships - but her own mother's dead body went undiscovered for several days until its stink made its presence known.
Dr Laura preaches morals and criticizes others' lifestyle choices - but photos of her naked self, taken by her adulterous lover, graced the internet.

She may say much that jibes with many people's sentiments, but her hypocrisy puts her right in the dustbin with Rush and William Bennett and Jesse Jackson, as far as I am concerned.

146 AST  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 11:40:20am

Wouldn't you think that Muslims would make a little more effort to understand Americans? The outhouse with the crescent on the door has been a staple of comics for at least 50 years, probably a lot longer.

I think we need to hand out some press packets.

147 cba  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:00:31pm

#146 AST:
LOL!

148 pduggie  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:22:51pm

The cartoon is more subtle that CAIR thinks.

The moons represent Islam.

But there's an outhouse Moon and a Real Moon.

The Real moon is nice.

The outhouse moon "stinks".

Does CAIR want to be in the Outhouse, or with "real" Islam?

You "slam" the outhouse door, not the moon.

B.C. is too subtle by half for most dumb suspicious types I'll grant

149 Biased Observer  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:30:20pm

Non-political comics are supposed to be funny while appealing to the average newspaper reader (demographically an English speaker familiar with American culture (in this case Judeo-Christian) and supposedly a grade 8 level of comprehension). Being restricted to four small panels, cartoonists have to make sure the intended reader both understands the joke itself AND how it is told. The easiest way to accomplish this is to recycle old jokes and symbols. Thus sophistication usually gets squeezed right out of the picture (Garfield anyone?). So Hart has four tiny panels in which to recycle the old “my poop doesn’t stink” joke. As for an Anti-Muslim bias, just deconstruct the strip against its intended target audience.

Panel One [Set Scene]: Man walks towards building. The traditional crescent moon on the door tells the reader it is an outhouse and not a shed. The reader understands the purpose of the outhouse. For the gag (pun intended) to work, the man has to be alone. Therefore it is set when man would be by himself –at night. The reader knows this since everything is drawn in shadow along with the traditional crescent moon.

Panel Two [Tell Story]: Drawing the man opening the outhouse door introduces too much extraneous detail. It is far easier and effective to just use a sound effect. “Creak” only indicates the door opening. “Slam” tells the reader the door was opened AND closed. Slam is written vertically so reader knows it’s a sound effect and not dialogue. It also saves limited panel space.

Panel Three-Set Up: Reader understands man is in now in the outhouse for the regular purpose. Recycle image from panel one with no changes to depict passage of time.

Panel Four-Deliver Punchline: Punchline “Is it just me…” delivered by dialogue balloon. Keep the same image as not to detract from punchline. Voila.

Unlike most cartoonists who either ignore or mock the practise of faith, Hart is proud of his faith and it shows in his cartoons. When Hart introduces a religious theme, he is pretty blatant about it. More importantly is WHEN Hart introduces religious themes, normally around Easter and Christmas, which oddly enough just happen to be Christian holidays. Imagine that!

Now where is the reference to Islam? The average reader is not expected (nor apparently sophisticated enough) to drill down through the obvious meaning to deduce the crescent moon actually refers to Islam.
But people see what they want to see. I seem to remember something about a vast right wing conspiracy. But in this case, just ask CAIR about the Jenin massacre.

As for the soi-dissent uber-sophisticates above who don’t like or get Hart’s sense of humour -to quote another sophisticated guy-“Well Excccuuuuse Me”!

150 Flaming Sword  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:30:25pm

Rayra:

I know you probably missed it, but on another thread I asked you if you had anything else to go on with regard to bashing Dr. Laura. As that pitiful site that D. Edgren linked to in #134 notes, the "adultery" part of your assertion is abit stretched--she was legally seperated and had filed for divorce. (Yes, I understand that the "clean" thing to have done would have been to have stayed married or to have WAITED until the divorce was final, but its not as if this "affair" took place in a house of marriage--the marriage was pretty much kaput.) Dr. Laura has made no secret of the fact that she made mistakes while younger--if doing so disqualifies one from standing up for right and wrong today, then I guess we would just have to shut this website down because we've all made mistakes.

With regard to the "dead Mother" issue, again, you may be taking that out of context. Dr. Laura has ADAMANTLY stated over the years that the responsibility for raising children rests with the MOM and the DAD, and that the allegiance of most value is to the kids and to the spouse (in other words, the idea that the wishes of "extended" family somehow "matter" in such decision making is one that she decries on a regular basis). IF the estrangement with the Mother were because of her Mother's unwillingness to comply with her and her husband's wishes on how to raise the children, then Dr. Laura would merely be following the advice she so often gives those who call her show. (I would gladly accept any link you have that would correct me on this issue--if she "estranged" herself to her Mother for no reason at all or over something trivial, then I will gladly retreat and agree with your statement)


D Edgren #134

I know that the link you provided wasn't your website, but it was in poor taste and served only to slam a woman who by most accounts understands right and wrong and has the guts to call them as she sees them. Again, not a slam against you, but the guy who runs that site should be ashamed.

151 john (abu tool)  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:47:24pm

CAIR missed it completely.

If you want to see seething, wait till they realize that this cartoon was printed on PAPER! And what is paper made from? TREES! and what do trees do? they tell teh holy islamonut where the enemy is. The holy trees did not tell them that the enemy cartoon was hiding behind page C9. This is a clear betrayal of the koran! Blasphemy! The trees have been corrupted by the great satan.
Once they realize thier mistake, boy, there will be some kinda seething goin' on....

152 Les  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:59:23pm

#145

Dr Laura preaches morals and criticizes others' lifestyle choices - but photos of her naked self, taken by her adulterous lover, graced the internet.

So she could say, "been there, done that, I don't recommend it."

So what?

153 caw  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 12:59:36pm

This cartoon makes perfect senst to me. I only find it mildly amusing but it makes sense.

I see the SLAM as text inserted instead of a picture of an outhouse door opening. (You will notice the outhouse and the position of the moon are basically in the same in pictures 1 and 2.)

In the third part of the cartoon the joke is that it IS him who stinks. He has been in there a while, you can tell because the moon has changed position in the sky.

You've got to stink pretty bad if "you" are worse than the outhouse.

154 D. Edgren  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 1:27:31pm

#150 Flaming Sword

I appreciate your softening the blow of the aside at the end of your comment by quite politely noting that you were not slamming me. I don't know, maybe I deserve to be slammed- I'll admit that I dithered for quite a while (2 or 3 minutes- an eternity in cyberspace) before I put that link into my post.

I subsequently addressed a post to Maui Girl (hers is #139, mine is #142) saying, in essence, I wouldn't spend any more time grinding my own personal axe against Dr. Laura. There are real enemies out there- people we simply don't think a great deal of in the popular culture aren't, given the importance of what is at stake, worthy of the time.

I just recall her seeming so arbitrary and unforgiving. No, worse- unsympathetic, and especially to young people with issues. Some might see that as a steadfast commitment to specific values and "tough love." When her indiscrete photos showed up all over the Internet, I remember hearing her on the radio for the first time afterwards, sounding just like she had sounded before, and thinking, "Wow, here's a person who is in complete denial about the fact that people, including herself, are, at bottom, fallible and imperfect human beings with the capacity for change."

That said, I will explain a bit why I posted the link. When all this (the photos) became a cause celebre in the late 90s, I was a fairly regular listener, as Dr. Laura had a time slot on the radio during my hour+ commute on a station I was too lazy to change

At the same time, my early experiences have taught me how much better is it to live by an objective and absolute standard of right and wrong, preferably a standard set by God. And that is the hard-won wisdom I try to pass along to others as I preach, teach and nag.

155 D. Edgren  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 1:30:00pm

Oops. Disregard last, hit the wrong button. ME IDIOT, WHERE'S THE WHITE-OUT?


D. Edgren

156 D. Edgren  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 1:48:42pm

#150 Flaming Sword

I appreciate your softening the blow of the aside at the end of your comment by quite politely noting that you were not slamming me. I don't know, maybe I deserve to be slammed- I'll admit that I dithered for quite a while (2 or 3 minutes- an eternity in cyberspace) before I put that link into my post.

I subsequently addressed a post to Maui Girl (hers is #139, mine is #142) saying, in essence, I wouldn't spend any more time grinding my own personal axe against Dr. Laura. There are real enemies out there- people we simply don't think a great deal of in the popular culture aren't, given the importance of what is at stake, worthy of the time.

That said, I will explain a bit why I posted the link. When all this (the photos) became a cause celebre in the late 90s, I was a fairly regular listener, as Dr. Laura had a time slot on the radio during my hour+ commute on a station I was too lazy to change. I just recall her seeming so arbitrary and unforgiving. No, worse- unsympathetic, and especially to young people with issues. Some might see that as a steadfast commitment to specific values and "tough love." When her indiscrete photos showed up all over the Internet, I remember hearing her on the radio for the first time afterwards, sounding just like she had sounded before, and thinking, "Wow, here's a person who is in complete denial about the fact that people, including herself, are, at bottom, fallible and imperfect human beings with the capacity for change." Her position seemed to me to be, in so many words, that she had a complete right to tell people who sought her advice that "you are scum right now, and if you don't do it this way (my way), you will remain scum."

Then, again at some later point, I read her explanation of the situation (which appears in full, btb, albeit lightly fisked, on the website I to which I linked). I was pretty offended, especially by the following, given what has become Dr. Laura's day job.

At the same time, my early experiences have taught me how much better is it to live by an objective and absolute standard of right and wrong, preferably a standard set by God. And that is the hard-won wisdom I try to pass along to others as I preach, teach and nag.

Well, I disagree, in part. Preach...O yeah. (Websters: preachy, see Laura, Dr., rhymes with screechy). Nag...nailed that one, too. My first wife had nothing on the Doctor, and she was world-class. But teach? Dr. Laura doesn't teach anybody anything. She simply says how she thinks things should be then calls people jerks when they don't measure up. No mercy, no quarter, no taking into account that she was, by her own standards, once a jerk, too.

As far as I'm concerned, she still is.

Now, back to the real enemy...thanks for letting me explain.


D. Edgren

157 Flaming Sword  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 1:55:33pm

D. Edgren:

Truly I meant no insult to you--the siteholder in the link was who irked me. You could (or I could anyway) just feel the slime oozing from that bad toupee'-wearing lustbot taking swipes at what a lady did some 20 odd years ago. To read his words and see that stupid grin on his face made me just want to reach through the screen and smack him.

With regard to the "unsympathetic" advice she gives, it took me awhile to figure that out too (or at least I THINK I've figured it out). I think she chose that type of "delivery style" because she had already figured out that most school counselors, pastors, feel-good parents, etc were going to ALREADY be telling her callers that "life is hard, and sometimes we make mistakes" and Dr. Laura decided to COUNTER that advice with the equivalent of "life is hard, and that's no excuse for you to make a wrong decision"--in other words, she PURPOSELY avoids any inflection of "sympathy" in her advice because she's trying to point out that the right path is the right path, period. She's wanting the caller to reflect on sound principle, not just a "warm" voice or a sympathetic hug from a guidance counselor who with that hug might be simultaneously signalling "Go do what you want, rightly or wrongly, here's a hug to make it all better."

(Yeah, I probably have spent WAY too much time trying to figure Dr. Laura out!)


Have a great weekend.

158 D. Edgren  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 2:02:29pm

#157 Flaming Sword

Yeah, I found myself dabbing green stuff off my computer after going there myself.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'll try to listen more carefully if and when I hear DL again (now I have Bill O'Reilly on during the afternoon commute, and my wife and kids wonder why I get home and shout "You're out of here" at the dog when I trip over it coming in the door).

You have a great weekend, too.


D. Edgren

159 Neo_Con  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 2:52:15pm

145 Rayra has 1,050 links in his Political Favorites 11/21/2003 01:33PM PST

She may say much that jibes with many people's sentiments, but her hypocrisy puts her right in the dustbin with Rush and William Bennett and Jesse Jackson, as far as I am concerned.

Why is Dr. Laura a hypocrite? I agree that she can be a bitch, but is posing naked immoral or unethical? Not that I know of. Unless you know something else about her that I don't.

Moreover, having high standards and failing to meet them doesn't make you a hypocrite or else all people of high standards would be hypocrites. Eveybody makes mistakes and sometimes don't live up to honestly held beliefs. That doesn't make you a hypocrite.

160 LightTower  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 2:54:03pm

#110 AlienWorkShop Boy 11/21/2003 11:16AM PST

"As a Christian, I'm very saddened by the fact that Christians have also persecuted and hated Jewish people in the past. :(

I sincerely hope that relations between Christians and the Jewish people have drastically changed for the better."

If it weren't for lying scum disinformation, even the ignorant "social christians" wouldn't act against the Jews. As for those who chose to follow after the Saviour, there are many rescued Jewish children, and many executed Believers, to show for their support.

I for one am grateful for the brothers and sisters who are filled with the same Holy Spirit as the 70 elders under Moses.

Thank you very much, AWSB

161 militarybrat  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 3:10:09pm

I can't answer for Rayra, but I CAN say why I consider Dr. Laura to be somewhat hypocrytical.

Been there, done that, telling you to go another route is a valid position to have. It also gives one credibility to those (usually teens and early 20s) who don't want to take the advice of their elders. It is not Dr. Laura's PAST actions that make her a hypocrite, it is what she does TODAY.

For instance, all the while coming out against artificial insemination, Dr. Laura went and did it herself. Sorry - no link, watched AE biography and that part stuck with me.

Also, her entire attitude is that "Just don't do it!" and there is never any acknowlegement that she herself is not better than those having the problem. The biblical injunction against speaking against the speck in my eye while ignoring the straw/log/stick (various translations) in yours comes to mind.

Tough love is necessary and a vital part of child rearing when used judiciously (trust me, I have four kids already), but you have to know when to use it and when not to. Those times I've listened to Dr. Laura, she came off like Ann Coulter with a psych degree. Shrill and totally unforgiving under any circumstances. The fact that I agree with a lot of what she says doesn't mean that she is the best vessel to be delivering it.

162 Flaming Sword  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 3:25:40pm

#161 militarybrat

"Those times I've listened to Dr. Laura, she came off like Ann Coulter with a psych degree

I know that I won't convince you of it, but I'm nearly CERTAIN that the tone and LACK of "inflection" (sympathy) is intentional!

As I mentioned to another in this thread, I think she is purposely trying to COUNTER all the "aw shucks honey, life is hard and we all love you, just do what you think is best" drivel that most guidance counselors, pastors, etc pass out to those with a decision to make.

In other words, instead of talking down to the caller, she speaks to them as someone who IS capable of doing the RIGHT thing, even if doing so will be difficult.

The next time you listen to her, she DOES laugh and make jokes and such, but she becomes "machine-like" when it comes to dispensing advice---I think she does it PURPOSELY to distance herself from some OTHER counselor in the caller's life who probably gave him/her a big hug, a smarmy smile, and (unspoken) permission to go out and make a mistake.

(All right, I'll stop trying to defend Dr. Laura now!)

163 QueenEsther  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 4:10:54pm

How can this cartoon be about Islam? It takes place "BC"!!

I'm guessing that the cartoonist could write a book about smelly stuff that rhymes with his last name. Now if it showed the guy with a bunch of buddies kneeling in prayer, then maybe CAIR would really have been on to something.

/obligatory sarcasm tag

164 Frank IBC  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 5:09:01pm

PDM -

Here's a template with which you can go indiscriminately wild! :)

165 Biker Dude  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 5:53:40pm

Everyone who is offended by Christianity, free speech, and opinions can choose the Islamic country of their choice to move to. You may also choose France if you want benefits with your loss of liberty! To me this illustrates the growth of what Mel Brooks called "Penis Envy" in the movie High Anxiety. Little people want to do whatever they can to bring down anyone they perceive to be morally, societally, physically, or financially above themselves. Call it what you want, but learn to recognize it for what it is.

166 Frank IBC  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 6:45:48pm

Mel Brooks? Sounds like Ayn Rand, too.

Ayn Rand, and Margaret Thatcher are NOT women!!!!

/Feminist moonbat

167 CaptainCab  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 6:55:16pm

Why go ballistic?

CAIR has already shown its true colors. Let them dig the grave they shall lie in.

CAIR takes issue with a cartoonist? So what?

I'm more interested in real life, and I don't like the bombings taking place in Turkey and other locales.

Let's focus on the real deal here.

This is a war.

Is it so much to ask that we stay focused on that fact?

168 Joseph  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 7:27:28pm

RE the BC comics...How desperate to be offended do you have to be? First the insult to Judaism.. Hanukah happens at the same time as christmas ie the birth of christ...Easter...the death of Christ... the extinguishing of the flame...the birth of Christianity. Where's the offence? As for Islam... if you've never used an outhouse, how do you know what sound the door makes when it closes? Finally, any comic or writer will tell you not every joke works. Ease up on the conspiracy theorys folks.

169 QueenEsther  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:35:45pm

#165 Biker dude
who said they were offended by Christianity? The offense is the notion that Judaism has to be replaced by Christianity, implied by the cartoon menorah that morphs into a cross.
As for the rest of your post/invitation, it's so out to lunch I'd like fries with that.

#168 Joseph

Easter...the death of Christ... the extinguishing of the flame...the birth of Christianity.

Same as above: But I'll spell it out for you. The extinguishing of the flame= extinguishing Judaism.

Where's the offence?

Easter used be a real fun time in Europe for drunken Cossacks who would go out searching for Jews to massacre after hearing lies told about them in church. The menorah cartoon was created specifically for and published on Easter Sunday.
You don't have to be desperate to be offended, just aware of history.

170 fiery celt  Fri, Nov 21, 2003 8:42:17pm

Dr. Laura Responds...

Dr. Laura: No apology to Muslims needed ; Remarks 'quite specific to terrorists and the people who harbor them'


Radio counselor Dr. Laura Schlessinger says she will not apologize, as demanded by a controversial Islamic lobby group that accused her of launching an "anti-Muslim tirade" on her program this week.

"It's absurd that anyone would even imagine that I was expressing disdain for everyone who is a Muslim or who is an Arab," she said on her show Thursday. "That's even stupid. If anybody has listened to me for any period of time, that's absurd."

The Washington, D.C.-based Council on American-Islamic Relations took offense to remarks made by Schlessinger on Monday's program in response to a mother who asked whether her 16-year-old daughter should take part in a Catholic high school class's field trip to a local mosque. The visit was part of a "moral themes" class that aimed to help students learn how "Muslims are treated" in the United States.

Schlessinger told the mother she should tell the teacher "you are willing to go to the mosque only if it is one that has done its best to rout out terrorists in its midst."

CAIR said Schlessinger "crossed the line from legitimate commentary on terrorism to Islamophobic bigotry."

Schlessinger said, in response, "Quite frankly I get really angry when people haven't even heard something and they're willing to be angry and do angry things on something somebody else told them happened. How dangerous does that make you and how much of a sheep does that make you? I'm certainly not inciting or condoning any acts of aggression toward any group, ever. I'm a Jew, I'm real aware of the pernicious and dangerous effects of prejudice."

She emphasized her remarks "were quite specific to terrorists and the people who harbor them. Not to Muslims or Arabs in general."

"That's absurd that anyone could say it with a straight face," she said of the condemnation. "And it sure gets us off the dialogue of what the issue is, doesn't it?"

The main point she said, "whether you are Arab-American, Hispanic-American, German-American -- I don't care where you come from -- our responsibility as Americans … is to stand between the innocent and evil doers and to rout them out of our midst. That's the issue."

On Monday, Schlessinger, a WND columnist, replied to the mother:


"This is a class on morals. What is the point of going to a mosque? ... You're joking of course. How many Americans have tortured and murdered Muslims. I think you ought to stand up against this class and this teacher. This is despicable. You tell him you are willing to go to the mosque only if it is one that has done its best to rout out terrorists in its midst. Instead of complaining.
"I am horrified that you would let her go. I am so sick and tired of all the Arab-American groups whining and complaining about some kind of treatment. What culture and what religion were all the murderers of 9-11? They murdered us. That's the culture you want your daughter to learn about?"

CAIR's communications director, Ibrahim Hooper, said in a response Wednesday,"Dr. Laura's anti-Muslim tirade demonstrates a level of hostility toward Islam that should be of concern to her program's audience and sponsors."

171 Tatterdemalian  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 2:34:00am

You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Johnny Hart did intend to offend Muslims with his comic. His work has really gone down the tubes since he discovered religion.

The only thing sadder than that, though, is CAIR being offended by something so silly. Islam really needs some sense of proportion.

172 Frank IBC  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 2:40:57am

#151 John (abu Tool)

If you want to see seething, wait till they realize that this cartoon was printed on PAPER! And what is paper made from? TREES! and what do trees do? they tell teh holy islamonut where the enemy is. The holy trees did not tell them that the enemy cartoon was hiding behind page C9.

Ah, THAT explains those weird messages I've been hearing when I read The Washington Post!

173 Frank IBC  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 2:45:13am

Joseph:

Agreed, extinguishing a candle can be a metaphor for both the death and re-birth of Jesus, as well as for the birth of Jesus.

But...

1) Any candle could have been used to illustrate this. Instead, a menorah was used.

2) The menorah is closely identified with Hannukah, which occurs near Christmas. But...

3) This cartoon was published on Easter, three to four months later than Christmas.

174 Frank IBC  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 2:52:02am

Taken out of context, CAIR's anger at Dr. Laura would be justified.

Taken IN context - the school field trip to a mosque is part of the current propaganda campaign which claims that "9/11 has no lasting significance, it's just a pretext for us bad ol' Americans to hate peace-loving Muslims".

And when was the last time any public school (I assume this is public school) had a field trip to a church or a shul? Such utter hypocrisy.

175 Frank IBC  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 3:13:15am

And as I said earlier, I feel CAIR has interpreted the recent cartoon correctly.

1) Taken out of the context I described in my previous post, they would have a right to be offended.

2) Taken IN context, they can go F themselves.

3) And they can go F themselves under ANY circumstance.

4) I'm here talking to myself again. Grrrrrr.

176 cba  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 5:34:38am

Frank, just so you don't feel lonely... Hi, buddy, how ya doin'?!

177 Shira  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 9:09:27am

#173 Frank IBC

The B. C. cartoon didn't depict a Hanukkah menorah (called a Hanukiyyah here in Israel, which has space for a total of nine lights), but a seven-branched candelabrum like the one in the Temple in Jerusalem. Hence the candelabrum is a symbol of Judaism all year 'round, not just of one post-Biblical festival.

178 Ol' Southern Boy  Sat, Nov 22, 2003 6:55:46pm

"CAIR's communications director, Ibrahim Hooper, said in a response Wednesday,"Dr. Laura's anti-Muslim tirade demonstrates a level of hostility toward Islam that should be of concern to her program's audience and sponsors."

You bet it should be a concern .... It wasn't loud enough, and it can't be repeated frequently enough!

179 Peter A.  Tue, Nov 25, 2003 1:15:13pm

#82

#87

You two just don't get it. The Jews, along with the multinationals, the VWRC, and the Bush Administration don't issue fatwas against cartoonists or dispatch legions of suicide bombers because they don't have to.

It's not that these groups are somehow nicer than the Islamofascists--it's that since the Jews already control everything that really matters in this world, they can afford to let the occasional offensive cartoon slide. Plus, any overt display of Jewish Conspiracy Power(tm) would be counter-productive.

It's exactly this state of affairs that so frustrates the oppressed peoples of the world. They have no power, and can't afford to be nice to their oppressors.

Playing nice with our Jewish overlords just strengthens the chains of complacency and ignorance with which they enslave use. They MUST be blown up! For great justice!

180 Claudius  Tue, Nov 25, 2003 4:35:20pm

coming very late to a probably-dead thread, but:
isn't "slamming an outhouse door" proverbial? seriously ... i seem to remember this being along the lines of "village bicycle" ... "she gets slammed more often than the outhouse door" or something. am i making this up?


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

Mystery Sale - Buy 1 Mystery Paperback, Get a 2nd 50% Off!
More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

New world odor.