"20 days without sleep".

How can you tell when a Muslim is lying?
Their lips move.

What I find interesting in this account is that even the lawyer admits that HAMAS is trying to form one or more North American cells. He's just saying that his client didn't go along.

Following the tactic taken by the threat to shoot down El Al planes at Toronto Airport (by forbidding them to land at the airport), Canada is probably considering forbidding Jews to drive in cars.

It's all about the occupation of Palestine, so let's launch our offensive against Canada... thousands of miles away.

Oh, and I fully believe the 20 days of sleepless torture. Everyone knows how immoral and brutal those fascist Canadians are.

The guy emigrates from "Gaza" to a free western country where he is given an education and the opportunity for a better life. Instead, he decides to join Hamas and the jihad against the infidels. Yeah, I'm sure if stubborn Israel had just given the Palestinians their own country, none of this ever would have happened.

If Hamas gets involved in the US and Canada to organize any terrorists attacks, you can kiss any goodwill to the Palestinian cause goodbye......

Not that they deserve any, but I imagine the first attack on say, Lieberman or someone of his caliber, that is confirmed coming from Hamas, and all bets are off. It is unfortunate it must come to this, but Israel has been dealing with this for decades, and only recently are we in America beginning to wake up to these Islamofascists from the ROP. I fear as Charles has mentioned, we may be napping a little again, but a homegrown Hamas attack would certainly serve as yet another wake up call.......

Tim

On some level, I bet some of the security folks who caught this guy thought "maybe we should just let him bomb Canada, and they'll learn a shred of empathy for us".
We're lucky that they're so professional.

OT - good news from Iraq, I'm sure the press will report it any minute now... /crickets
"IP launch first preemptive strike against insurgents"
"The IP engaged in a firefight with the militants who left the location in a hurry after some were injured.
No elements from the Special IP Force were injured and they uncovered a huge stockpile of RPG's, mortars, TNT, ammunitions, and explosives at the location."
[Link: www.healingiraq.com...]

For 20 days they interrogated him without sleep.

This could mean that the interrogators didn't sleep. :)

Or, it could be the sleep version of the Ramadan fast where you only sleep at night.

"It's just eight bullets he was shooting, that's it, and they tell him it's military training.

And on 9/11 it was only 4 airplanes, so I guess that wasn't terrorism, either.
/sarcasm

#9 PDM

This could mean that the interrogators didn't sleep. :)

No, it means that Jamal Akkal was not allowed to sleep while he was being questioned. Oh! Those cruel, cruel interrogators! ;)

In a perverse way this may actually be good news.

Really.

The less effective terrorists are, the farther they need to go to act. In other words, the more effective the counter terrorist organization is in combatting terrorists in their home territory the more likely terrrorits are to try to act elsewhere.

For example, the IRA sent bombers to London because they were stymied in Nothern Ireland. The Palestinians went to the Munich Olympics because the Israelis stopped (most) of their attacks in Israel. The Chechens went to Moscow.

And now the fence is being built; their leaders are dead, in jail or in hiding; they are reduced to threatening a young women into becoming a human bomb.

As Churchill said, this is not the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.

We dare not let down our guard. We must continue the fight.

But this is confirmation that the terrorists are losing and that we are winning.

And that is the good news

Following the tactic taken by the threat to shoot down El Al planes at Toronto Airport (by forbidding them to land at the airport), Canada is probably considering forbidding Jews to drive in cars.

This business about forbidding El AL planes to land because terrorists want to shoot them down is cute and funny and it was reported in the news, but it simply isn't true. I wrote a letter of protest to the Canadian official involved and I got a written repsonse back explaining exactly what he said in the proper context and forbidding El Al from landing in response to this threat wasn't part of it.

You can't believe anything, oops (nervous giggle while I correct myself), everything you hear from the CBC.

CBC radio was crowing this morning about the Israeli torture with far more gloating glee than they ever showed about Syria's torture of Arar. From the CBC perspective Syria's torture of Arar is the all the American's fault.

When Syria tortures people, it is the fault of the USA, but when Israel uses sleep deprivation to interogate suspected terrorists that is an even worse torture than anything Syria does (because Jews did it) and it is Israel's fault and only Israel's fault.

"It's just eight bullets he was shooting, that's it, and they tell him it's military training.

What the hell does that mean? If you're training with Hamas, you're training with Hamas. Am I too dense to see otherwise?

Tman #6,

I'm feeling really pessimistic today, after having read all of yesterday's 400+ post thread on the Arab-Israeli conflict, so excuse me for being a little blunt, but:

If Hamas gets involved in the US and Canada to organize any terrorists attacks, you can kiss any goodwill to the Palestinian cause goodbye......

This is utter bollocks. Instead, we will try to "understand them", we will try to push Israel into more suicidal concessions ("if it wasn't for those Jews breathing, they wouldn't be attacking us"), etc. ad infinitum. You may think I'm full of it, but consider this: immediately after 9/11, Chomsky's first worry was that it might harm the Jordyptian cause. As it turned out, Chomsky needn't have worried; instead of emphatically opposing terrorism worldwide (in more then words), we did our best to reward it in Israel, avoid discussing it in India, and cross our fingers and hope it doesn't happen in America by hiring unionized TSA employees, having an FBI that is more concerned with an increase in budget then doing their job, having a CIA that couldn't find it's own arse let alone infiltrate AQ (while John Walker Lindh demonstrated how easy it is to get a meeting with OBL), etc. ad infinitum.

No, an attack on a Jewish target in Canada or North America will just lead to more of the "why do they hate us" navel-gazing.

#14 Ms. Andi

What the hell does that mean? If you're training with Hamas, you're training with Hamas. Am I too dense to see otherwise?

Didn't you listen to the cries of the persecuted? It was only eight bullets!!!!!!! /sarcasm off

Re: #1

How can you tell when a Muslim is lying?
Their lips move.

I think that comment is uncalled for.

If you had said, "How can you tell when a radical Islamist is lying" I think you would be closer to the mark, but it is unfair, unjust and unworthy of you to slur all Muslims over a quote from one lawyer who is trying to drum up sympathy for his client. (Something that most criminal lawyers do for their clients, however scummy they may be.)

Actually, Charles is right on when he says that Guiness should be contacted. The longest time without sleep that I have seen was 11 days. So either this guy is lying (oh heavens no) or he trounced the last record holder.

#6 Tman

If Hamas gets involved in the US and Canada to organize any terrorists attacks, you can kiss any goodwill to the Palestinian cause goodbye......

I think that the exact opposite would occur. The Europeans refuse to call these guys terrorists and they continue to fund their cause. If Hamas were to start blowing up women and children in North America, they would see an expodential increase in funding from Europe for their continued freedom activites.

Ariel #15,

No apologies needed for bluntness, that's why I like to visit this site. If I wanted it sugar coated I would go to CNN.

No, an attack on a Jewish target in Canada or North America will just lead to more of the "why do they hate us" navel-gazing.

I agree that this is a possibility, but the randomness ad sheer stupidity of Hamas and the other Pali-fascists IMO will not prevent them from hitting the wrong target, such as Chomsky himself for example. (Not that I'm "hoping" he would be attacked, I don't wish this on anyone, no matter how stupid they are).

But much like the fedayeen in Iraq attacking children and hospitals, sooner or later the support dries up and the reality hits hard and fast. In my town (Nashvile, TN) there is a Mosque and a Jewish Temple right next to each other. In order to bomb one, you would have to hit both. I wonder if something along the lines of this would force the fence sitters of the issue to finally see the truth, laid out in blood.

I wonder if during the navel gazing someone will read something like www.factsofisrael.org"...]> and get a god durn clue for once.....

Tim

Of course if the so-called "mainstream" press picks up this story it will say "Canadian man accused of supporting terrorism." Those belligerent Canucks! Someone call the Mounties to take care of this Canadian terror suspect!

Get a load of the CBC's take on the story. Of course, it's slanted to elicit sympathy for the terrorist who confessed under "duress". (Would they prefer they just do it the Canadian way and ask him really, really nicely?) I heard CBC Radio this morning describe Israeli interrogation tactics as "robust"--and I don't think they meant it in a nice way.

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

(Thanks for the h.t., Charles.)

This guy does admit to being recruited by them and does admit thye want to expand their attacks in Canada.

No, an attack on a Jewish target in Canada or North America will just lead to more of the "why do they hate us" navel-gazing.

Personally, I disagree. I lived in Montreal when the tanks rolled in during the October crisis after the FLQ did their terrorism stint in 1970. Canadians have far fewer civil rights, historically have reacted far more quickly and harshly to internal terrorists than the USA once the bombs do go off, and, well, bombings are messy and there is nothing Canadians hate more than messes. One bombing disruption to our sweet, well organised and neat little lives and our nice polite Canadian navel gazing would stop.

I personally think if Hamas bombs something here in Canada, they will be very sorry. As the Sikh terrorists have discovered after twenty years, the Mounties always get their man, eventually, no matter how long it takes.

So, he confessed under duress from being interrogated? What's their point?

Oh, right, he was deprived of sleep --not mutilated and tortured.

#13 Judith Gordon wrote --

I wrote a letter of protest to the Canadian official involved and I got a written repsonse back explaining exactly what he said in the proper context and forbidding El Al from landing in response to this threat wasn't part of it.

Can you share what the official wrote, or at least the gist of it?

Thanks.

>"20 days without sleep".

Right. The most one can go without sleeping is one week.

/reaches for can of B.S. spray

Got one from Canada?

No problem, we got more - lots and lots more!

/Hamas

#23 Judith Gordon

You're absolutely right about Canada despising messes. It's even 2/3 of our national motto ("peace, order and good government).

"20 days without sleep".

That's almost as asinine as when Ernst Zundel complained about the quality of pens & stationery in Canadian prisons.

Memory paraphrase so, its not exactly verbatum.

Any possible errorists targetting that particular Israeli plane presented two dangers, first and foremost to the people on the plane (most of whom were Canadian citizens), and then to the Canadian people on the ground near the Toronto airport if the plane did go down. The response to this threat was to act to circument both dangers. In future, Israeli planes under such a threat might be directed to land somewhere else in Canada other than Pearson International. The question of whether or not El Al planes would be allowed to land in Canada, as part of the solution to this problem, was never part of our discussions.

Mirabel is out in countryside and the only thing in danger on he ground at Mirabel would be some cows and maybe a pig barn. Toronto, however sprawls right up to he fence at Pearson. A plane going down anywhere near that airport would be another Lockerbie. My inerpretation is that if El Al found itself reularly facing this threat it would have its landing site changed to somewhere other than Pearson to protect Torontonians. The logical landing site would then be Mirabel.

And there was a whole paragraph about finding the terrorists and locking them too.

OT - Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States, although it just lost an adherent.

"A man convicted of fatally shooting a storekeeper during an attempted robbery was executed early Friday.

. . . It is from Allah that I come and it is to Allah that I return," Lyons said in a last statement. 'If my death brings another person happiness, then I'm happy for them.'"

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

locking them up
locking them up
locking them up

(My arthritis is acting up. Must be a snowstorm coming.)

Why the hell isnt this being reported in the wider media?This should be big news.

A couple of months back, DEBKA had an article that mentioned the Canada/HAMAS connection... This is probably the guy they were talking about.

The little wort is not a Canadian! Islamic terrorists have no right to citizenship. Deport the lot to cheese eating Quebec.

Hamas Said Waiting for Limited Cease-Fire

Palestinians debated cease-fire proposals on Friday, but Hamas, the main Islamic militant group, reportedly was resisting a comprehensive truce and holding out instead for a limited plan to halt attacks only inside Israel.

Hamas needs to be destroyed immediately.

Why Charles is calling Palislime a Palestinian-Canadian? Canada is currently in funk but they will recover. The proper label for the pig is Palestinian holding Canadian passport. There is a good chance he got that passport by fraud.

'#20 Tman

I live in Nashville too. Did you know that imam abdulhakim at the 12th Ave. mosque was previously at the al-Farooq mosque in Brooklyn? Al-Farooq was an al-qaeda recruitment center in the late '80's and was frequented by the blind sheik rahman and his followers who were convicted for bombing the WWT in 1993. The imam is from Yemin and was educated at the Wahhabi Univ. of Medina (a degree in shar'ia). He speaks perfect english and is as slippery as a snake oil salesman.

His political co-hort is Dr. Awadh Binhazim, who has been the front man for the muslims until recently. He is a doctor in animal pathology and also studied at the Univ. of Medina. I heard him say that Christianity and Judaism were superceded by Islam which was the final and most perfect religion, as well as being a social and political system...a complete way of life.

We are in deep sh*it here.

#30 Judith --

Thanks for the notes. The response you received sounds very reasonable -- I guess that's why we never heard about it in the press here! If it was in the press, I missed it.

Thanks!

Um, guys? Whether or not the "20 days" figure is exaggerated is one question, but it's fairly well known that sleep deprivation is one of the widely used interrogation tactics that the US (and presumably Canada) use. Just prevent the guy from sleeping.

Leaves no marks on the body, doesn't cause psychological trauma, and it's very damned effective.

I don't know anything about whether it's physically possible to stay awake longer than a week (as Ratbert says), but I'd say there's likely at least some truth to what the lawyer is saying.

#26 Ratbert,
#41 Brian Tiemann

From the 1990 Guiness Book of World Records:

The longest recorded period for which a person has voluntarily gone without sleep is 453 hr 40 min by Robert McDonald of California in a rocking chair on Mar 14 - Apr 2, 1986.

That works out to about 18.9 days. There may be a new record now (I don't have the 2003 edition handy). Regardless, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

#39 Cracker,

Ugh. No, I did not know that. Thanks for crapping up my day. Just kidding.

You are talking about the Mosque on 12th ave? Is that where he is? I drive by there quite often and wondered about the type of Islam being promoted. It's funny because Nashville has a Church like every five feet, and this particular street has just about every religious denomination represented on one form or another. One big happy multicultural Sh*T storm.

Thats just freakin' great. If they so much as even hint at some sort of terrorist act in Nashville there will be trouble. Anyone messes up the Titans winning the Super Bowl this year will pay dearly.

Nashville too, eh? We should get a LGF mixer together, I had a few beers with Allen Forkum at Boscos a couple months ago, I bet he'd be interested.

Tim

limited plan to halt attacks only inside Israel.

Note that leaves Canada out of the ceasefire area. And guess what, since they don't acknowledge that Israel exists....

The little wort is not a Canadian! Islamic terrorists have no right to citizenship. Deport the lot to cheese eating Quebec.

Lets let the Frenchmen have all of Canada's Islamofacists and then urge them to hold another separation referendum. They love to appease terrorists so both sides should be happy. Of course that might end up meaning next the generation of Bushes will have to invade Quebec, but at least the US army won't have so far to go.

#43 Tman

Yep, the mosque on 12th Avenue home of the Muslim Brotherhood/al-qaeda reps. And it's even worse...

In Dover, TN, there's a compound of about 17-20 families who are Muslims of the Americas. This black muslim group(many recruited from prison) has allegiance to sheik gilani, the Pakistani who Daniel Pearl wanted to interview when he was kidnapped. sheik gilani is a mysterious figure who is revered by OBL and who came here in the 80's to set up the Muslims of the Americas and their jihadi arm called Al-Fuqra (see any pattern here?)
Al-fuqra is responsible for multiple murders and firebombings across the US. There have been rumors that John Muhammad and his boy are members and stayed in one of their safe houses in Virginia. I have documentation for all this and when the Nash Scene ran a pr puff piece on the mosque/imam I sent them a letter about what I knew. Of course they didn't publish it. I've told all my friends/acquaintances about this and only a few are worried. Would be glad to meet for a beer. Contact me at kentrel@mindspring.com

If anything could be worse than Hamas committing disgusting crimes against innocents in Israel, it would be them trying to export the same violence abroad.

I think that, unfortunately, it will take an attack on Canadian soil to make our government take terrorism seriously. There were already hints about al-Qaeda's plans for bombing the US embassy here, IIRC.

If Akkal associated with Hamas, he should be imprisoned for a very long time, regardless of how many "bullets he was shooting." It really is that simple..

#45 Cracker,

Check your email- We need to talk. time for a media blitz of the NashScene, this stuff needs to be aired out like a moldy sleeping bag......

Tim

Here is the current top story on the CBC web site (and the first item on the radio news: Ottawa to rebuke Israel's ambassador

The federal government plans to scold the Israeli ambassador next week over "inappropriate" comments made about a Canadian in custody in the Middle East.

Re: 20 days without sleep--perhaps that meant he was woken up every time he fell asleep over the course of 20 days (just playing devil's advocate here).

Key point:

Terrorists go for soft targets.

If Hamas is going over seas to attack Israel. Israel has crippled Hamas' ability to strike in Israel.

20 days without sleep and surviving that is nonsense, i even think the eleven days mentioned earlier on the thread are impossible.

back when i was a leading light in the party scene over here ( ah, the heady days of youth ) i once went without sleep for 69 hours on account of our booking agent being a bit chaotic ) my friends called in the doctor when i refused to leave the basement of the club that we were setting up in at that moment, because i claimed i was having an important conversation with the chief leprichaun about saving the rabbits.

the doc put me to sleep, and axplained later that i was close to having a psychotic episode when he found me and that another 12 hours without sleep would have probably done me in.