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NY Times Interviews Iraqi Jihadi

Fri, Dec 5, 2003 at 10:29:11 am PST

New York Times reporter Ian Fisher interviewed an Iraqi who claimed to be a mujahideen fighting against coalition forces: The Foe: A Tale of War: Iraqi Describes Battling G.I.’s. (Hat tip: PB.)

He said his group had mounted about 35 attacks locally, of which he participated in "more than five." His comments suggested a good knowledge of weapons, and he said his cell used Katyusha rockets, rocket-propelled grenades, large machine guns, AK-47's, mines and homemade bombs detonated by remote control (though he would not say exactly what kind of remote was used). He said they bought some weapons with their own money and looted others from unguarded ammunition dumps left over from before the war.

"We want the world to know that Bush, the biggest criminal of all, and Blair, that monkey of the desert, will not be able to control the Iraqis," he said. "We will not allow them to kill Iraqis. I am speaking before God, on my behalf and that of the other mujahedeen."

His choice of the word "mujahedeen" was perhaps one of the most telling details about what this insurgency would like to be.

The word means "holy warrior," and for many Muslims it connotes brave struggles against occupiers over centuries, against the crusaders a millennium ago or against the Russians in Afghanistan a mere two decades ago. These resisters would like that honorable title bestowed on them. The recruiting leaflets the American military says were found here called for Iraqis to join them on a "jihad," or holy war, against the Americans — prompting a large United States military raid on the town this week.

That seems pretty unequivocal, doesn’t it? The man claims outright to be a holy warrior, fighting for the cause of jihad.

So why in the world would Ian Fisher then write something like this:

It was hard to pin down any single motive for the fighter here, who said he served in the Iraqi Army for six years, ending in 1998, and who gave the nickname "Fighter for the Sake of God." In compact and articulate answers, the man seemed a fanatic neither for God nor for Mr. Hussein.

Try not to get whiplash from following the sheer illogic of that paragraph. The man himself says he’s a “fighter for the sake of God,” yet Fisher still tries to tell the reader that he’s no such thing. In the very next sentence.

Then Fisher quotes some more non-Islamic non-fanaticism:

"We are not fighting for Saddam," he said. "We are fighting for freedom and because the Americans are Jews. The Governing Council," he said, referring to the body of Iraqis appointed by the Americans, "is a bunch of looters and criminals and mercenaries. We cannot expect that stability in this country will ever come from them."

"The principle is based on religion and tribal loyalties," he added. "The religious principle is that we cannot accept to live with infidels. The Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him, said, `Hit the infidels wherever you find them.'

No religious fanaticism here, folks. Move along, nothing to see.

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62 comments

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1 Kalb cad-di-nee  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:36:04am

Hope he got the coordinates for the JDAM/WCMD drop.

Drop a dime on the jackass!

2 mickthemick  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:39:01am
We are not fighting for Saddam," he said. "We are fighting for freedom and because the Americans are Jews.

But mostly because the 'Amercians are Jews'. That says it all.

3 M. Murcek  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:40:45am

It seems a person has to be a complete blithering idiot to work for the "mainstream" press.

Of course, Mencken would have said it's always been so.

4 dgd  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:40:45am

Mr Fisher may be dumb enought to write,

"In compact and articulate answers, the man seemed a fanatic neither for God nor for Mr. Hussein."

but I'll bet most of the people who read his story will see exactly who this "fighter" is and what he represents.

5 Dom  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:42:56am
...fighting for freedom and because the Americans are Jews.

Whereas on the other hand a Jewish conspiracy is fighting in the name of oppression and because the good are free.

6 Model4  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:43:09am
No religious fanaticism here, folks. Move along, nothing to see.

It's not religious fanaticism. It's just religious observance, same as praying toward Mecca or not eating pork. The god says, the followers do.

7 Lucile  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:46:23am

Would someone (who's registered at NYT) be so kind as to post Fisher's e-mail address. I'd like to send him a note to tell him what a dumb-ass he is.

8 V the K  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:47:39am

I heard a Koranic scholar on the radio today say that because jihad and hatred for infidels was so ingrained in the Koran, it was impossible to be both a good Muslim and a good person.

Just throwin' that out there.

9 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:49:33am

Can't blame the NYT reporter, surely. If we start really listening to the islamabaddies, and taking them at their word, then the terrorists will have won.

Check out Andrew Sullivan's parcel of jihad bloggage today, too.

10 Gryphon (Just Another Jew With A Gun)  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:49:46am
because the Americans are Jews

And we thought "Allah" is kidding when he calls everybody a Jew...

11 Spiny Norman  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:50:36am

When the dominant "mainstream" press starts believing their own propaganda, this kind of mind-numbing illogic, well, just happens. They can't help themselves.

12 gymnast  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:52:16am

Two problems, Mr. Fisher and the fanatic he interviewed. Solution, no fanatic and no reporter, no problem.

13 Lively  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 8:57:37am
The Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him, said, `Hit the infidels wherever you find them.'

Have you ever noticed when you bring this verse up in an argument, the other person says, "No, it doesn't mean that" or "They only did that in ancient times. It doesn't mean today."

14 Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:01:37am
15 Geepers  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:01:43am

But look how critical his words are here:

His choice of the word "mujahedeen" was perhaps one of the most telling details about what this insurgency would like to be.

OK, that's what he'd like to call it. But What is it?:

The word means "holy warrior," and for many Muslims it connotes brave struggles against occupiers over centuries, against the crusaders a millennium ago or against the Russians in Afghanistan a mere two decades ago.

So once again he describes himself as a holy warrior in a holy WAR. And Ian then tells us what Holy Wars the muslims won by way of illustration.

Gosh Ian, maybe you should mentioned some holy wars that the brave struggling mujahedeen didn't do so good, you know, for "balance."

Like being booted out of Spain after hundreds of years of dominance, or against the Americans in Afghanistan a mere two years ago.

16 David Simon  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:12:07am

Tony Blair is a "monkey of the desert?!" I wonder if anyone is keeping track of the more humorous Arab mixed metaphors.

17 recon  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:15:41am

Fisher forgot or professionally neglected to ask the big money question: 'How much are you being paid to attack US and Coalition troops and who by? How much do you get paid for each attack and/or each casualty/death you cause?'

I suspect many of these attacks will dry up as the currency conversion kicks in and the last of Saddam's stash of US dollars fades.

Unless the cash is being re-infused by Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria or Arafat, that is.

18 Ginger Liz  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:16:31am

Way OT - Divine justice! Man run over after robbing charity worker.

Sweeeeeeet.

19 Alexis Z  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:17:12am

Anyone else find that article a little "off"?

Isn't it bizarre that he referred to G-d, and not Allah?

Personally, the whole interview looks fake. And

when you consider the NY TIMES and their stringent

fact-checking....well, you never know.

20 mickthemick  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:19:42am

#14 Titus
Q: Is Iran Falling Apart?
A: I certainly hope so.

21 John Gibbon  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:20:44am

As far as motivation of these fighters this article is totally off the mark. I see the primary motivation of these fighters as (in order):

1) Being paid off to attack

2) They are religious fanatics (you kind of need this for the suicide type of attack)

3) They want reinstate the old regime (cause it sure paid better to work for saddam than it does now)

4) Don't discount Mob Violence when it comes to certain attacks. ie A US soldier goes down and its a free for all for the the young Iraqis in a 200 meter radius (compare to Somolia)

But these people certainly aren't fighting for freedom as the fighters states as the reporter ties to purport.

slightly OT this was linked in on Bootz yesterday, a good read about how the tide has turned on these attacks:

Casualty balance sheet

22 Ms. Andi  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:26:18am

Why do reporters like him try to find complexities in something that is so profoundly simple? This reminds me of the asinine interviews reporters gave Ted Bundy shortly before his execution. And what the hell was he doing with those people in the first place.

#14 Tatus

I think the IRI has been unraveling for awhile. There have been several reports similar to your link throught the country. (of course ignored by CNN et al) Unfortunately, demonstrations aren't going to accomplish much until the regular military breaks any allegiance with the Revolutionary Guard and takes over. My friends who live there have told me about certain rumors of defections in the military, but then again, their just rumors for now.

23 ploome  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:31:09am
blithering idiot

is really too kind.....deliberately self performed lobotomy there.

24 V the K  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:31:50am

OT Howard Dean's tinfoil beanie must be too tight. He's now giving credit to a Livid Loony Left (LLL) theory that electronic voting machines are a Republican scheme to steal the election.


One of the most shocking things in this administration is that the head of a company called Diebold, that makes voting machines, sent around a letter in Ohio promising to do "whatever it takes to get this president elected in Ohio." It doesn't give you a lot of confidence in the electoral process. ( Light laughter )

I hear this question almost every day. If I do four or five meetings in a day, somebody almost always brings it up sometime during the day. We don't know a lot about this. But I'm very worried about the voting machines that don't leave a paper trail, because there's no evident way of auditing that. So, it is a real issue.

We're not on top of it yet, because we have so many things to do to try to get the nomination. But we will be on top of it, and it's going to be a big issue in November of 2004.

Link

I think we see why the democrats are in trouble. In order to win, they have to pander to a base made up of people who need interventions and rooms with nice, thick wallpaper.

25 TruthTeller  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:33:47am

Hey! Israel needs this!!!!!

In South Africa they have a unique little toy, the Black Widow. Basically it's a cylinder with open choke shotgun barrels sticking out like legs on a spider. There are two levels of these barrels. It is operated by a hand crank thru the roof of the vehicle it is mounted on. One turn of the crank blasts everything in a 360 degree circle with buckshot. It's a one shot toy, but can duck heads long enough to allow the vehicle to escape. Perfect for mob attacks.

That is so cool!!! Probably save a lot of settlers in Judea and Samaria from the palis.

26 Bill Jefferson  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:36:41am

I can't remember whether the governing council is full of CIA stooges or State Department stooges, or if there is a difference, but please someone remind me where the post-war German leaders - Adenauer, etc. - rode out the war?

27 TruthTeller  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:36:56am

Wanna know how big the cajones are on the IDF soldiers??? Check this out!!!! That sounds like a VERY dangerous mission...

28 gfunk  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:38:29am

Hmmm... I'm inclined to agree with you ploome. But I think self lobotomy is somewhat above this reporter's level of articulation. I think he was just dropped on his head as a baby. So there, for all the woes at the NYT we can just blame their mothers.

Which, if all of America is Jewish, means that not only was the staff of the NYT dropped on their soft melons, they were then made to feel guilty about it by their own mothers.

It's a vicious cycle...

29 rabidfox  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:39:58am

Alexis Z. You're absolutely right! Unless the reporter is translating 'Allah' into 'God', which they never do. Jason Blair where are you?

30 non-hippo  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:40:03am

OT but very interesting
The Paris Match reporter who did the story of the terrorists shooting down the DHL plane was interviewed on CBS as it happens.

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

Go about 13 minutes into the program (part 1) and listen to her.

(Interesting side note, the terrorist could not tell the difference between a military 747 and a DHL airbus.)

31 James  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:40:07am
the Americans are Jews

This one is anyway. ;)

32 Sean II  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:40:36am

Reuters makes me want to puke:

Mum Vainly Tries to See U.S. Iraq Soldier Daughter


TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - A peace activist accused the U.S. military on Friday of depriving her of the chance to visit her soldier daughter, telling her that the truck driver was on a mission.

But Lieutenant Colonel William MacDonald, spokesman for the U.S. Fourth Infantry Division in Tikrit, said he was trying to organize a meeting for Saturday.

Anabel Valencia said she had informed U.S. military officials that she would be at the gates of the base at noon to see 24-year-old Giselle. She arrived only to discover that her daughter had been sent on a mission to Baghdad.

"I have not seen her in three years, I don't know why they are doing this," said Valencia, standing outside a sprawling U.S. military base in Saddam Hussein's hometown.

"The last time we spoke she said 'I miss you and my father and sister. I want to come home for Christmas but I have to finish my mission'."

"I feel so bad. I am sad," said Valencia, who was accompanied by Medea Benjamin of Global Exchange, an anti-war human rights group.

Several parents of Americans serving in Iraq have come to the country to visit their children, including ones that were killed in the war that toppled Saddam.

Their presence just outside the military complex clearly made U.S. troops nervous. One arrived with a sniffer dog and firmly told Valencia to keep a distance from the main checkpoint.

"Can I talk to her?" Valencia asked before being told that Giselle had been sent on a mission to Baghdad, where her brother is also serving in the U.S. Army.

Valencia and her party were told that Giselle would be back at five o'clock. But MacDonald contradicted that claim.

"This mission has been scheduled for quite a while and you know she is a soldier. She is out performing her duty," he said.

One soldier stood by and reminded everyone that "this is a war and soldiers are sent on missions."

Giselle had spoken to her mother highly of her tour of duty in Iraq.

When a group of U.S.-trained Iraqi policemen showed up, American soldiers loaded their weapons.

"The Americans asked us to come here to stop the demonstration," said Iraqi policeman Mohanan Taha.

Asked if protests were illegal in the new Iraq, he told reporters: "There are no human rights under the Americans. Nothing. It is all empty talk."

"We miss the days of Saddam," said Iraqi policeman Mohammed Shawki.

? Reuters 2003. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

33 Catbert  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:40:48am

Way OT: another ROPer gets his raisins

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

"RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) -- A man convicted of fatally shooting a storekeeper during an attempted robbery was executed early Friday.

Robbie James Lyons, 31, died by injection and was the seventh inmate executed this year in North Carolina, the most since 1949 when 10 people were put to death, officials with the Corrections Department said.

"It is from Allah that I come and it is to Allah that I return," Lyons said in a last statement. "If my death brings another person happiness, then I'm happy for them."

Thanks, dude. Your death did not bring me as much happiness as Arafat's would have, but I'll take what I can get.

34 hornsofthedevil  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:41:15am

i've studied the pages for this artticle online and there is no address or link to email Mr Fisher. His article is so assinine, that i'm not surprised he doesn't want to answer for its slanted, delusional angle.
I would imagine that any of these adresses would eventually reach him:
Ian.Fisher@NYTimes.com
IFisher@NYTimes.com
IanFisher@NYTimes.com

35 Ed Moran:Abu Potential E. Coast Blizzrd Disaster  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:41:44am

Speaking of New York

At 2 pm EST, all reporting stations NYC/Long island reporting snow or heavy snow, generally below 1/4 mile visibility, temps most places upper 20s 25F (-4C) the cold spot at White Plains, 31F (-1C) at Montauk Point.

New York City Doppler Radar Loop


I trust all the drivers attending the final, ever, Winston Cup Awards Banquet (including the #18 and #5 drivers) are already at the Waldorf. It will be close, but if NYC stays all snow, over one foot by tomorrow night.

Meanwhile, in the Tropical North Atlantic, Odette is officially a 50 mph storm, and could be approaching Hurricane force as it approaches La Republica Dominicana early tomorrow. Satellite rainfall estimates indicate that 20.6" (52.3 cm) of rain have fallen just east of the center ( over the open waters) in the last 24 hours. A major disaster will probably occur in two very poor countries tomorrow.

36 Austin  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:48:07am

OT ; No this has nothing to do with religious beliefs, we will not mention religion...No matter what we do we shall not mention religion

[Link: www.thebostonchannel.com...]

Sharia anyone?

37 militarybratonly10daysleft!  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:51:31am

@32
It makes you wonder if the soldier actually WANTS to talk to her mother... I would be too embarrassed to.

Oh, and I guess all those "demonstrations" filmed outside the gates are actually shot in the Hollywood film studio where they filmed the moon landing.

How long until Dean picks this one up?

38 Catbert  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:52:26am

18 Ginger Liz

"Way OT - Divine justice! Man run over after robbing charity worker.
Sweeeeeeet."


Sweeeeeeet indeed! And pretty close to home. I live about 2.5 miles away and have driven by that store several times.

39 Geepers  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:53:19am

And are we going to get any help quelling the violence of the holy warriors in Iraq from NATO? Fuck no.

NATO flag won't fly in Iraq before next summer

Cuz Europe says they're unable to, cuz they're too busy.

As Robertson puts it, NATO's 18 non-U.S. members have some 1.4 million men and [sic] uniform, and yet with only 55,000 deployed abroad they all complain that they are over-stretched.

3.9% is "over-stretched"? Liars.

Powell twinned his appeal on Iraq with a suggestion that NATO should eventually move beyond peacekeeping in Afghanistan to take command of the more robust U.S.-led operation hunting down Taliban militants and al Qaeda operatives there.

Which would seem like Colin is once again asking for something he knows ain't gonna happen.

That would be a tall enough order for the alliance, whose European contingent Robertson only last week described as "a flabby giant with huge military expenditure, enormous paper armies, large amounts of equipment, all of which are completely useless for dealing with tomorrow's crises".

Now why would Powell bring it up? Maybe just to point out the fact that they're worthless? Nah, he's too stupid for that. It must be because, as this reporter tells us:

Facing mounting casualties, the United States last month revealed details of a new political plan to transfer sovereignty to Iraqis faster than previously envisaged.

Is that really why? Cuz of the mounting casualties? Or could it possibly be that things are going right along fine and were confident that Iraqis will be doing the brunt of police action soon?

And gosh John Chalmers isn't the whole plan to get rid of the evil occupational government as soon as possible? You think that Reuters would think that was a good thing?

40 scaramouche  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 9:56:52am

OT: This is the most sensible thing I've read all week:

[Link: www.voanews.com...]

41 brianstien  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:02:56am

#32 Sean II

It's always best simply to paste a link, along with one or two relevant excerpts, into your post - as opposed to pasting an entire article.

That way, our cruel Lizardoid Master doesn't fun afoul of copywriting issues. Plus, you don't eat up a boatload of bandwidth :>)

42 brianstien  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:04:32am

er... run afoul...

/preview is for losers

43 ploome  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:10:25am

and asiatimes, interviews someone from one of Pakistan's political parties.

.....what 'radical islam'.....thats a western concept, nothing muslims can identify.

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

"However, the concept of radical Islam, as understood in the West, differs somewhat from what is generally perceived in the Muslim world. To find out more, Asia Times Online spoke with the central general secretary of the Jamaat-i-Islami Pakistan (JI), Syed Munawar Hasan.

The fundamentalist JI is the largest of Pakistan's religious parties and the writings of its founder in 1941, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, have greatly influenced the lives of millions of Muslims across the globe, including people such as Dr Ali Shariati (an ideologue of the Iranian revolutionary movement), Imam Ruhollah Khomeini - the leader of that revolution in 1979, Syed Qutub (an ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood), and even statesmen such as King Faisal of Saudi Arabia.

The JI is an important constituent of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), an alliance of six religious parties that scored unprecedented electoral success in last year's November national polls. "

...this will be a long slog

44 english bloke  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:13:23am

As Iran was mentioned earlier...

Iran's hardliners disrupt (Nobel laureate) Shirin Ebadi's speech

Commenting on the incident, Ebadi said: “It’s interesting, while communists groups abroad accuse me of promoting Islam, in a state university in Iran they call me a pagan and attack me. How come the communists portray me as a prejudiced Muslim but my fellow country men call me an infidel?”
45 Geepers  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:14:05am

hornsofthedevil (#34),

i've studied the pages for this article online and there is no address or link to email Mr Fisher. His article is so assinine, that i'm not surprised he doesn't want to answer for its slanted, delusional angle. I would imagine that any of these adresses would eventually reach him:

Nice tries, but here it is:

fisheri@nytimes.com

Did you get that? It's:

fisheri@nytimes.com

Maybe just one more time to make sure you got it:

fisheri@nytimes.com

46 Zack  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:22:23am

27 TruthTeller
From your linked article:

According to the Maariv report, the army has instituted a "Duck Shoot Procedure," whereby Israeli soldiers travel West Bank roads as moving targets in order to capture Palestinian terrorists. Soldiers performing the operation travel in civilian vehicles and wear civilian clothing, without the protection of helmets or ceramic vests.

If they really want to attract attention, they will dress in drag and have a couple baby car seats showing in the back seat. The people killing Israelis are engaged in genocide first and foremost. Women and children are their primary targets.

47 kid charlemagne  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:23:52am

This is what I love about LGF. Just by chance, I skimmed through that article this morning (I normally don't read the Times), and the sentence about the Jews, as well as the context in which it is presented - especially the preceding sentence indicating that this man is "articulate" and not a fanatic - jumped out at me. "I should alert LGF," I thought. I log on and lo and behold, the fisking's already been done.

48 Ed Moran:Abu Potential E. Coast Blizzrd Disaster  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:25:45am

If I had to guess, LGA is closing soon.....

LAGUARDIA APRT HVY SNOW 29 29 100 NE23G28 30.14F VSB 1/8 WCI 15
49 Norwegian kafir  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:42:27am

Jews again.... An entire culture with paranoia.


Michael Jackson (PBUH), the last and final prophet of Allah?
[Link: www.faithfreedom.org...]

50 hornsofthedevil  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:46:25am

Thanks Geepers.

51 Braniac  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 10:54:21am

Too bad he didn't bump into the same folks old Fiskie did.

52 Ed Moran:Abu E. Coast Blizzrd Disaster  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 11:34:01am

At 4pm, the snow has let up just a shade in intensity, but is still coming down in all the NYC metro area, and temps are still 0C or below.

Looks like only the Patriots game still may have snow, but even there it should be tapering off by game time, but howling north winds should be blowing the powder around (the snow will be wettish and sticky tonight, but get fluffier as temps drop tomorrow) during game time.

The snow is over in PHL, but since Eagles fans are generally goons, any remaining snow/ice will be used to pelt officials and Cowboys players.

53 ushie  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 11:37:59am

Looking at Mr. Fisher's work, I can only conclude he did not read what he himself wrote.

54 William  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 12:09:40pm

Hmmm...


"We want the world to know that Bush, the biggest criminal of all, and Blair, that monkey of the desert, will not be able to control the Iraqis," he said. "We will not allow them to kill Iraqis. I am speaking before God, on my behalf, and that of the other mujahedeen."

 
Now imagine the following appearing in a Western newspaper during World War II:

"We want the world to know that Roosevelt, the biggest criminal of all, and Churchill, that monkey of the desert, will not be able to control the Germans," he said. "We will not allow them to kill Nazis. I am speaking before the Fuhrer, on my behalf, and that of other Nazis."
55 Iron Fist  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 1:59:41pm

#45 Geepers,

You are too kind, my good twin.

I'd have said:

fisheri@nytimes.com

If ya didn't catch that it's fisheri@nytimes.com.

Are we clear?

fisheri@nytimes.com

:-P

56 fred from AL  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 2:24:07pm

"because the Americans are Jews"

Whatever you say Achmed.

"It will not matter when we're you're dead."

57 bigel[deleted]  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 2:26:45pm
58 David All  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 2:40:21pm

About the mother trying to see her daughter/soldier, I agree with militarybrat that it sounds as if the daughter does not want to see her mom. It may be because her mom is against the war or for more personal reasons. That the mom says see has not seen her daughter in three years probably means there is a deep disagreement between them.

Now as to whether mothers in WWII would have visited their soldier sons and daugthers, the answer if the children were stateside, and anywhere close (say within 500 miles) they certainly would have and brought along plenty of food to make sure their kids, especially their sons, were eating right and not going hungry! Of course it could not have happen overseas because of the War .
But if the military were so unwise as to deny a mother a chance to see her son, LOOK OUT ALL HELL IS ABOUT TO BREAK LOOSE. Any officer dumb enough to try that would probably have gone on to get between a mother grizzly bear and her cub!

59 Bourgeois Reactionary  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 3:46:53pm

Good news, the Special Iraqi Police Force in operation:
NEST OF TERRORISTS RAIDED
"...in Hay Ur. The weapons included 12 RBJ7, 12 missiles, and two mortars with 116 missiles as well as two boxes of TNT."
[Link: www.alsabaah.com...]

60 Judge Dredd  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 3:57:58pm

"... because the Americans are Jews."

Wonder which one is the biggest bigot? The one with the KKK robe wrapped around his head, or the journalist in desperate search of moral equivocation?

Sickening either way.

61 rumcrook  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 4:01:04pm
"We are fighting for freedom and because the Americans are Jews.


well he's right, america is founded on a judeo christain ethic, not greek not roman, certainly not tribal arabism or blood cult despotism but in a deep concern for freedom, justice and the goal of equality regardless of status. allways trying to be conscious of the underdog.
appluading industriousness. changing a desert to an oasis, christian americans understand and teach the lessons from the old testament just the same as the jews do. reviled by many in the world for our success just as jews are... we are, honorary jews.

a worthy goal we have spent 200 years trying embody.

whether most americans recognize it or not.

62 levi  Fri, Dec 5, 2003 4:16:13pm

Answer for #26--Bill Jefferson

I recall reading that in post-war Germany up until the late 50's there were three groups of people not in the public government-- those who had ever joined the Nazi party, however shortly or tangentially; active members of the resistance within Germany; and those who left Germany. Therefore the postwar leadership consisted of people who had stayed in Germany, but stayed outside of the government. The "no" to exiles I think was the public belief that the exiles lacked understanding of the suffering of the 1940's. I've never understood the "no" to the resistance. At any rate by 1960 or so, all three groups came back in--although one's contact with the National Socialists had to be pretty minimal. Willie Brandt was from one of these three groups.


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