He doesn't want the nomination, obviously.

I never thought I would see such an absolute selling out of our national sovereignity. He can't be that dumb, can he?

This guy is going downhill so fast that he will not even be remebered come election time. What a total loser! He has totally destroyed his so called military credibility by making such an asine statement.

Can that be classified as more enemy infiltration into our military? Oh, of course not. He's a retired general.

Okay, he's out of the running.

Let Europe have right of first refusal? Maybe he'd like to see if France wants the Lousiana Purchase rescinded?

Sheesh. Clueless.

J.

It's official- Wesley Clark is now utterly unqualified to represent the American people.

Confirming himself as an Idiotarian of the First Rank. Let's ask people who spent two thousand years slaughtering each other for no good reason before we finally stopped them what we should do about our security concerns. What a crock of bullshit. Makes just as much sense as us asking Trinidad and Tobago what we should do about China and Taiwan. Jeebus.

It's not even clear what "right of first refusal" means, in this context. Meaning, we'll offer to let you (Europe) come on board, and if you don't, we'll proceed on our own? If that's what he meant, fine... although he'd have to explain to me how this is different from what Bush actually did regarding Iraq. But I don't think that's what he meant.

Send him a copy of the Constitution so he can learn (re-learn) WHO is to "provide for the common defence." Section 8 of Article I would be helpful reading.

"First right of refusal" I don't recall and can't find anywhere. What if Luxembourg refuses? Heavens to Betsy!

Would Clark give the right of first refusal to Israel on any agreement *sshats like this clown think are good for all???

These fifth columnists seem to multiplying exponentially, to the detriment of the USA.

First in his class at West Point -- so he's no dummy.

Distinguished combat record -- so he deserves respect.

SACEUR -- so he's got top-level experience.

His positions and arguments on political-military affairs, however, aren't even remotely serious or credible (i.e., they fit right in with the delusions of the punditocracy and much of the Dem. Party).

A clear and discouraging example of how a bright, courageous, experienced former senior leader can be utterly clueless on life-and-death issues. Or at least pretend to be.

That came out of the mouth of a former general?

What a revolutionary idea. Let's put Chiraq in charge! And why stop at Europe? Let's put him in charge of our domestic policy. I mean, who on earth is better qualified to solve the 'excess of baby boomers' problem! Jacques knows how to do it. Let 'em roast!

J.D. [baby boomer]

WTF?!? I mean, seriously: WTF?!?

I agree with OR on this one.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Veto power? A right to debate? Either way it comes across as an abdication of sovereignty.

All this after his important conference with Madonna. Coicidence? I think not.

This is the guy handpicked by the Clintons?
Brilliant strategy!

or maybe Wesley has been hainging out with the Eagles to long?

"Desperado" should repalce "Hotel California" as his favorite song
"Desperado... why don't you come to your senses..."

Those people who postulated that Clark's security credentials would make him a dream running mate to balance a Dean ticket gotta feel pretty stupid about now.

The national Democratic Party has become the Party of Treason.

We are now seeing in prime time what a useless yokel this guy is, if it were not for him being a Rhodes Scholar from Arkansas at a time when another Rhodes scholar from Arkansas was in the White House, we would have never heard of him. He would have washed out of the military or risen to the rank of major and retired. His service to his country is noted, however his record as a general is bizarre: the only American General ever to have ordered an attack on the Russians, and that over a crummy little airport. And why had the Russians landed? To help stop the buchery in Serbia. That order, and a second, were refused by a British General who wisely told Clark off. With that in mind, why does he want to defer American security decisions to that ratty continent? Because he knows they will keep him in check?

Did he really mean that the way it sounds? He can't possibly have meant that the way it sounds. Can he?

#20 V the K

Those people who postulated that Clark's security credentials would make him a dream running mate to balance a Dean ticket gotta feel pretty stupid about now.

Nah, this won't even register on their radar. They can't be expected to keep up with what their candidates say; they're busy being the last remaining line of defense against the evil BusHitler's AmeriKKKa!

/sarcasm (as if I had to say it)

Why is it that smart well-educated Democrats (well sort of, in Clark's case) can be so stupid? Jimmah C. was a nuclear engineer that graduated from Annapolis. Obviously, intelligence and common sense don't go together.

I suppose the next logical step is to give Chiraq the nuclear codes since he'll be making the final launch decision anyway. Actually, we can just take the appeasement model to its logical extreme and give them to the Mullahs and Imams.

When do the polls open for idiotarian of the year?

#25 Honorary Jewish Atomic Redneck

Obviously, intelligence and common sense don't go together.

Well, they're so much smarter than those plebeians who rely on common sense. Who needs it?

/sarcasm

But seriously, I think that's what they're thinking is. They're just better than the rest of America.

Clark is the Clinton's dual purpose stalking horse:
(1) Dilute the pool to assure a Democrat loss in 2004 so Hillary faces a non-incumbent in 2008.
(2) A chance to test a few of the Clinton's wackier internationalist ideas without consequences.

The scary part is that he's not any scarier than the favorite for the nomination, Howard Dean.

I've read this thing a couple of times and still have no idea what he meant to say. I'm with OR and Capt. Queeg on this one.

If Clark meant that we've got to run everything by the Euros first, that's a clear and implicit statement that undermines US sovereignty and likely violates the Constitution.

This might be the most disturbing thing I've ever heard a serious presidential candidate say.

"Right of first refusal"? What on earth is he talking about? Does he mean that the nations of Europe would have the option to join in coalition with the US in any military action it wishes to take? Why does he think this is desirable or (given how far Europe is behind the US militarily) even feasible? Why does Europe get this special option? Does this mean the US must invite Europe's opinion when the US would be better off going it alone or using non-European allies?

Or does he mean that he would allow the EU the right to approve or disapprove the US's military actions?

There's no clarification Clark can provide that can make this weird statement sound reasonable.

I hope Frank J. is taking heed of this. If "North Korea Attacks, President Clark 'Responds'" isn't great In My World material, I don't know what is.

Having a friend who's served on Clark's staff really gives me some insight into his character and platform.

That Insight?

Clark is a jackass.

I would be uneasy letting this guy run a cubscout troop. No, make that a patrol.

OT Atrios' site has become virtually distinguishable from Nazimedia now, with conspiracy theories abound. Check out the comments on this thread. It really shows the intellect of your typical Howard Dean supporter.

Do you really want this guy leading our country?

OT: Anybody get the feeling somebody will be getting off on a technicality? Sami Al-Arian Documents Accidentally Destroyed

PAPOON for PRESIDENT!

"Not Insane"

AND HE CONNECTS! And it's up, way back, over the cuckoo's nest, WAY BACK, over the rainbow, WAY BACK, AND IT'S FLOATING OUT AMONG THE MIND-CONTROL SATELLITES!!! Touch 'em all, Wesley Clark, you've just knocked one out of reality.

Abdicate sovereignty much?

It's the "collected works of nedra pickler" one btw.

I am not at all suprised or shocked...

Remember he had U.S. planes painted over to NATO colors!

It's a good thing that Europeans can't vote in our elections.

Speaking of Europeans, it's high time for them to pay us back all the money which we apparently wasted in defending them from the Red Menace during the Cold War...

There's no clarification Clark can provide that can make this weird statement sound reasonable.

It seems that most every (strange) thing the Donk candidates say is designed for spin / clarification afterwards in the hope that we ignore / forget what the original statement was.

Either way, this guy gets my vote for Idiotarian of the Year. Put him on the ballot, Charles!

Did anybody catch this part?:

MATTHEWS: But doesn’t life in Holland beat life in a cave?

CLARK: Not in a Dutch prison. Chris, they’re under water, they’re damp, they’re cold, they’re really miserable.

Once again, there's this lame anti-death penalty argument, which, in essence, tries to say that life in prison is worse punishment than death. It's effectively advocating torture.

#33 Eric:

Can you elaborate on that? I remember hearing about an officer who (I think) served with Clark in the Balkans who basically said that there was no way he would ever vote for Clark. That was all he said, though.

What's Clarks deal? Is he a kook or what?

Clark along with shitloads of other people "serving" in our government aren't honoring their oaths to uphold the constitution.

Clark is a disgrace to this country, our founders and all who have served and died for our country.

I really don't exactly understand Wesley Clark's function. What it?

is

#43 BH

Hugh Shelton,
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs during the Kosovo war:

I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote.

This is great. When it comes to campaign time, the GOP is going to run this in their ads. "Clark says, Don't worry, be happy, Europe will protect us."

My only question is, what happened to the REAL Wesley Clark, and how did this impostor get in?

Isn't Clark the same moron that tried to start WWIII with the Russians when he was in the Balkans?

OT: Good news. Lt. Col. Alan West is not going to be court martialed - he will be subject to non-judicial punishment. (via Fox News - Dayside) Lt. Col. West was the one who shot a gun beside an Iraqi's head because he wanted to get information from him about potential attacks against Americans. The Iraqi was unharmed, of course.

#47 RIP Ford: That's the one, thanks. Pretty strongly worded, makes me want to know exactly what happened over there. Ususally these guys are a lot more diplomatic.

OK, and if we beg, grovel and promise to pay the back taxes maybe the UK will accept us back? Has this moron ever heard of the Boston Tea Party?

Anyway, it is an insult to our country that either a) someone this stupid can run for the office of the president, or b) someone running for the office thinks that the electorate is this stupid.

He's poll numbers suggest that b is not the correct answer.

Good idea. Let's put our national security concerns in the hands of people who think like Vomit from Ireland.

Not thanks. And someone should tell Clark that the Euros do NOT mean us well.

I had no idea General Clark was running for Secretary General. I didn't even know the UN had elections.

Look up Wesely Clark's recond in the military. He was a bully and he did not command very much respect.
He was a one man show.
No wonder holywood elites like his so much.

OT: A question to all interested: what is the Islamist word for "the telling of a lie by a Muslim when in the House of War to further Muhammed's agenda"?

tip toe through the typos... oy.

First, I thought Dhimmi had the Fisk Award in the bag. Then Dean blew him outta the water with his tinfoil babbling about Dubya conspiracy theories. But not only has Clark one-upped Dean, he's made Dhimmi look sane. I mean, this guy is basically saying we'll turn over every big military decision we make to the EU, which has already said they'd love nothing better than to bury us.

Perhaps he's making an early bid to replace Chirac?

Frank #56 - Taqqiyah.

Weslflea Darkside would set those who signed the Declaration of Indipendence a-rolling in their graves!

Close your eyes and picture Eisenhower saying what Clark said.

The heart sinks. The mind boggles. And it ain't just nostalgia.

If not for Clinton, (and Clarks French language skills)this guy would have been retired as a two star.

Clark is a pampered prince who burned every possible bridge in the military with his arrogance and ineptitude.

Given his performance as the Commander of NATO, and the fact that he is the Clinton's puppet, why is anyone surprised that he wants to cede US sovereignty to the EU or the UN.

The really sad part is that Dean, who is even more of a raving moonbat than Clark, has staked out ownership of the triple L club. It's amazing that someone is even further out than Clark.

BTW - Clark has got to be the most "out there" ex-military politician since Ross Perot nominated a clueless buffoon as his VP candidate.

#55 ethos:
"Look up Wesely Clark's recond in the military."

I'd love to. How? just Google or are there military sites?

Thx, ariel.
Taqqiyah lead to taqiyyah by Google search.

#56 frank

: A question to all interested: what is the Islamist word for "the telling of a lie by a Muslim when in the House of War to further Muhammed's agenda"?

Conversation:-)

I propose this years Fiskie be shared by all the Democrat presidental candidates as a group.

This is the talk of a person who is embarrassed to be an American. He admits the United States is a force for evil in the world and that we must bow to the will of the superior morality of the effete snarlers in Europe.

All these presumed smart people - Clark, the Clintons, Tim Russert - who do and say such stupid things. Moe, Larry -- Cheese!

Friends, what this tells you about Wesley Clark is that he is dishonest.

(Gee, and the Clintons supported his candidacy?!)

He cannot possibly intend to give any right of "first refusal" (whatever the hell that may mean operationally) the the Euros, as such a thing would be neither legal nor practical.

Mr. Clark is just playing to the histrionic, "Tranzi" Democratic "base" (with that last word used in its moral, adjectival sense)...

Jamie Irons

BusinessWeek Online - Nov. 24, 2003
Q: You insist that it would be better to turn military operations in Iraq over to NATO. Have you asked NATO about this?
A: First of all, it's unlikely that this Administration will persuade NATO to get involved. I've offered a new Atlantic Charter -- the idea that we would mutually pledge the right of first refusal, of first choice, when we deal with our security problems together. You can't get people to participate unless they have a seat at the table.
...
Silly.

I found this definition

Right of First Refusal

The right of first refusal gives the holder the right to meet any other offer before the proposed contract is accepted.Right of First Refulal

SPOTTER'S GUIDE TO TELLING A STREET SCHIZOPHRENIC FORM A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE

1. Warns of mind control satellites, but does not have a cell phone and press entourage

2. When discussing war strategy, promises to enlist permission of France and Rigel-7

3. Darkly hints that the Saudis warned Jenna Bush about 9-11

4. Detailed diary of every waking moment, but written in mustard

5. Not only endorsed by Al Gore, actually lives with Al Gore

6. Pledges immediate withdrawl of US troops -- from Bobby's Discount Liquors

7. Largely unsuccessful in attempts to foment bloody anti-semetic riots

8. When he is speaking, your sense of morbid fascination lasts for more than 15 seconds

9. Favors cardboard over Brooks Brothers

10. Stands an actual chance of winning the presidency

Statements like Clark's make the idea of a vast right-wing conspiracy involving mind-control rays seem plausible. The only problem is that what the Dem candidates are saying is wackier, stupider, and more offensive than anybody in the RNC could ever fantasize having them say. Maybe I am naive, but this summer I never imagined Sharpton and Kucinich would have so much competition for Nuttiest Candidate.

It's like the 12 Days of Christmas, or Hannukah. Every day, a new little gift from the Left.

OT - houston, wife and associates at work just watched a fighter apparently escorting a commercial jet in.

gack. Make that "FROM."

chellspecking is my fiend.

#50 Ariel - Good news, but he's not out of hot water yet. You can contribute to his legal defense fund - Allen West Defense Fund, C/O of Angela West, 6823 Coleman Drive, FT. Hood, Texas 76544.

I think it's important that our national security conforms to the concerns and mood swings of Europe's nomenclature.

/is there a chip in my head?

Meanwhile, Zeyad has pictures of yesturday's anti-terror demonstrations.

I give up trying to understand why lefties want so badly to be Europeans.

High taxes, little social mobility, no work ethic, inflated sense of their place in the world, ect, etc, etc ...

Oh, crap! I just answered my own question, didnt I?

And if he wouldn't mind making space in the White House for a French or Arab diplomat or two Clark faces a stark choice: Marxism or Anarchism?

OT I don't know much about this WSIS global information conference, but it seems to have stirred the activists quite a bit: here, here - this guy, here, all these, here and here (lol).

Among other stuff while I was busy with all that surfing I also found this amusing collection of photos of sweaty kids taking on British society by trying to picnic in the walkways of their local mall and attempting to share their (brand name!) food with customers in the main cafeteria.

Why is this not a major news story? Unfortunately, many Americans would think it's a good idea. I thought he was the candidate to trick people into thinking Dems are strong on Defense. Mathews just breezed past this one. Mathews also said:
"You know, you said something interesting about what happened after we were hit on 9/11, 2001, about how you got the word somewhere in the Pentagon or elsewhere that there were people already pushing for war with Iraq. Tell us about that, first, because it tells us, I think, about the mind-set of this administration going into 9/11."

the point that Clark backtracked several times on the issue- it was the Pentagon - no, it was Canada - no it was Israel...and the fact that it possibly said something about Clark was not even explored. This is Hardball?

Clark has got to be the most "out there" ex-military politician since Ross Perot nominated a clueless buffoon as his VP candidate.

Jim Stockdale is a clueless buffoon? Let me ask you something, did you know anything about him before you made that ridiculous comment? Just a little preview of what that link contains:

He deliberately inflicted a near-mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and revived by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated in their employment of excessive harassment and torture toward all of the Prisoners of War.

In addition to unquestionable valor, Jim Stockdale was quite the academic. In 1981 he became a senior research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Cut the guy a little slack. So what if he doesn't look good on television, he's got character.

People, people - you're not showing a proper response. Allow me to demonstrate:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THIS GUY'S A FUCKING IDIOT!

Any questions?

Clark = Dean = ten pounds of dumbass stuffed into a 5 pound bag.

Does Chris Matthews slip drugs to his guests before they go on air? Before and after close ups: this is Wesley Clark, followed by This is Wesley Clark on sodium pentathol.

iowahawk-LOL!

#42 Lewis -

Er, how is it that Clark is so intimately familiar with the inside of a Dutch prison?

Sure, Europe will come to our aid when we need them. Just like they did for Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, etc. etc.

And isn't Clark the one who almost started WWIII with the Russians, just 4 years ago?

OT, but quite amusing:

[Link: www.ananova.com...]

Man 'flew Israeli flag in row with Palestinian neighbour'

A Palestinian man has told a court how he was hurt and angered after a neighbour hoisted an Israeli flag in his back garden as part of an alleged campaign of racial harassment.

Andrew Milner, 46, of Gordon Road, Shoreham, West Sussex, denies racially-aggravated harassment against his neighbour Loai El-Oun and his wife Debbie.

The trial at Chichester Crown Court heard how a dispute broke out between the two next-door neighbours, who had previously been friends, over a drainpipe which the El-Ouns claimed protruded on to their side of the boundary.

Mr Milner is accused of placing a golliwog doll in his window, setting up a camera on a tripod overlooking the El-Ouns' property and hoisting the Israeli flag with the intention of harassing his neighbours in June last year.

The offences are alleged to have taken place while Mr El-Oun, who became a British citizen after his marriage 11 years ago, was visiting his mother who lives in the Gaza Strip.

Mr El-Oun, who was born in Kuwait, said: "The flag in the garden means a lot to me because it is being done on purpose to aggravate me, because they knew I was Palestinian.

"I feel very, very angry at the Israeli flag. It is the enemy because they occupied my country and took all our land."

The trial heard that Mr Milner put up the Israeli flag next to a St George's Cross which he had hoisted as part of the football World Cup celebrations taking place at the time.

Mr El-Oun was not in the country when the flag and golliwog were put on display and his wife had had to inform him of the racial significance of the golliwog, the court heard.

Selwyn Shapiro, defending Milner, suggested in court that Mr El-Oun did not have a thorough knowledge of Palestinian history or politics and only used the nationality in a bid to win the dispute with Milner.

Re-readin the article I posted above, I noticed this:

'Mr El-Oun, who was born in Kuwait, said: "The flag in the garden means a lot to me because it is being done on purpose to aggravate me, because they knew I was Palestinian.'

IF HE IS BORN IN KUWAIT, HOW CAN HE BE A PALESTINIAN?

Of course, media would play down Clark's idiotic statement, as well as they play down the news that administration barred French, German and Russian contractors from competeing for Iraq reconstruction project - US Bars Iraq Contracts for ..., that would increase Bush's job approval on the spot.

Jim Stockdale is a clueless buffoon? Let me ask you something, did you know anything about him before you made that ridiculous comment?

Yes I did. At no point was his valor questioned. Those events were 20+ years prior to his being on Perot's ticket. Being a named a Senior Research Fellow was 11 years prior to his being Perot's running mate.

But in those actions, and honors, do not reflect the man that was a candidate for VP in 1992.

One can make a similar argument over any number of people. Achievements and bravery in earlier times, do not ensure brilliance in other achievements and actions. A VP is a heartbeat away from the Oval Office, and they need to be presidential material. In 1992, Stockdale was not. His reputation would have been better served if he did not accept the nomination from Perot.

We can disagree on how competent Stockdale was in 1992 - but there is no disagreement over his service and bravery as a POW.

Three words:

Oh. My. God.

#63 Athos - That "buffoon" you refer to is Admiral Stockdale, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner for his heroic actions as the senior Navy POW during the Vietnam war. He spent eight years as a POW. Granted he is not a politician (a plus in my book) but he is in no way, shape or form a buffoon. Indeed, he is a courageous, resourceful national hero.

#92 - Doug,

Refer to my last line of my previous post:

We can disagree on how competent Stockdale was in 1992 - but there is no disagreement over his service and bravery as a POW.

The dem. primaries are just getting more and more entertaining, aren't they?

If I wasn't afraid that this dem. implosion signals the end of our two-party system as we know, I'd be the first to break out the popcorn, sit back and enjoy...

#87 JWarrior - That's hysterical. Hoisting an Israeli flag is "racially-aggravated harassment"?!

#93 Athos - sorry, I missed your #90. I just got a little incensed at the joining of Stockdale & buffoon. I thought that was a pretty derogatory word. I doubt any acquaintance of either one of us would describe us as buffoons, yet throw us up on the stage like he was in '92 and we might look the same way!

So if I understand it, the first thing Clark would do if elected President is to run to the French (who owe their freedom and crusty bread to the thousands of American GIs who gave their lives) and the Germans (whom we rebuilt and protected from the Soviets at great expense for 45 years), get on his knees, beg forgiveness and promise never to do it again without first asking Mommy and Daddy?

Is he insane? Who are they to dictate our policy? It's bad enough that they have have neither the spine nor the ability to resist the urge to appease and mollify the beasts that would (and will) devour them, but to put ourselves at the mercy of their morally bankrupt society is an incredible concept.

This is the same group that continues to fund PA terror despite the admissons by the PA's own people that millions of PA donor dollars have simply "vanished."

Wesley who?

OT: There's an interesting Michelle Malkin column entitled "The D.C. Sniper's Jihad" (along with a dramatic drawing by Lee Malvo) in the "dead tree" edition of today's NYPost (but I couldn't find it on their website). It's about how most of the media is trying to make it seem like the serial killings had nothing at all to do with Islamic extremist terrorism, but Malkin shows quite clearly how Malvo's thinking was, in fact, inked to Islamic extremism. What struck me even more than Malvo's "jihadist" motivation, however, was how blatantly the media covered this up.

87 JWarrior

What the heck is a golliwog?

Right of First Refusal- In general, the right of a person or company to purchase something before the offering is made available to others.

In Clarks' usage that might translate as giving Europe the right to purchase US allegiance, agreement, cooperation, before the US offers those to any non-European nations? Thus making the US bound by that contract if they, the buyer, accept the terms? The US could make the price very high for a hostile buyer. I think it's Clarks way of throwing his former liasons in Europe a bone, saying we'll go to them for cooperation and agreement before approaching others.I'm assuming Britain, Spain, Italy and former-Soviet Eastern European countries aren't defined as European otherwise Clarks proposed policy is no different than the Bush administrations' approach of record. Let "Europe" buy agreement for their contrarian policies from the cheap political whores of the world. The right of first refusal doesn't last forever, the Europeans need the US more than the US needs all of Europe, as currently being demonstrated in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Clark lost his European command by resisting changes in DoD strategy for Europe thus being insubordinate to his Commander-in-Chief. Not a good career move and it doesn't bode well for Clarks future subservience to any authority, primarily the Constitution of the USA .

#81 Dirk Diggler: your post reminds me of a very well-delivered line by Dennis Miller on the subject of Stockdale's famous "I have to turn up my hearing aid" line during the debates:

"Of course he had to turn up his hearing aid, because those f**king animals knocked his eardrum out."

Some reporter with a backbone needs to pin him down on the specifics of this plan. Does he accept the decision of a majority of European states when he goes hat in hand on an issue, or is it like a jury, where unanimity is required? And what states actually constitute his European board of trustees? Does Lichtenstein get veto power over us, or maybe San Marino? Inquiring minds want to know.

#99 Kristina29

Read it *bright and early* this morning.

THE D.C. SNIPER'S JIHAD

#99 - Here is the link for Michelle Malkin's column.

Wesley Clark is a halfwit. He should run for prime minister of France.

Ot Re:Goliwog doll: Very unacceptable.

[Link: www.ferris.edu...]

The Golliwog (originally spelled Golliwogg) is the least known of the major anti-Black caricatures in the United States. Golliwogs are grotesque creatures,1 with very dark, often jet black skin, large white-rimmed eyes, red or white clown lips, and wild, frizzy hair.2 Typically, it's a male dressed in a jacket, trousers, bow tie, and stand-up collar in a combination of red, white, blue, and occasionally yellow colors. The golliwog image, popular in England and other European countries, is found on a variety of items, including postcards, jam jars, paperweights, brooches, wallets, perfume bottles, wooden puzzles, sheet music, wall paper, pottery, jewelry, greeting cards, clocks, and dolls. For the past four decades Europeans have debated whether the Golliwog is a lovable icon or a racist symbol.

The Golliwog's reputation and popularity were also hurt by the association with the word wog. Apparently derived from the word Golliwog,16 wog is an English slur against dark-skinned people, especially Middle or Far East foreigners. During World War II the word wog was used by the British Army in North Africa, mainly as a slur against dark-skinned Arabs. In the 1960s the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, one of the most noted regiments in the British Army, wore a Robertson's golly brooch for each Arab they had killed.17

The Washington Post (y'mach shmo) did its best to cover the Islamist angle.

On the day his cartoons were released, the WaPo put a (cropped) cartoon with a big evil gun on page A1.

The other six pictures, the ones overflowing with "Jihad" and crossed-out Stars of David, were buried on page *B6.

Sorry...in case there was any confusion, my #109 was in reference to the Malvo/Beltway Jihad Sniper Trial.

Wow.

Gen. Weaselly Clark is making a habit of lunatic fringe positions. Not so long ago, Clark was advocating the notion that America was created on the premise of progressive taxation.

Now we should let Europe decide whether or not we would strike back against a terrorist attack? We should catalog this info for when Hillary runs for President so people can be reminded of just whom she endorses for the highest office in the land.

I'll bet he trusts the Shover Robot, too.

There are a slew of "political generals" like this out there. Husband had the wonderful luck to serve under one a while ago. Yay. I would LOVE to give the details, but now would be a bad time. Suffice it to say that when he felt not enough people were saluting his car on base, he had someone take a bunch of pictures of it, post them online, and required everyone to view them (in different angles and locations) so that he would get his proper respect while driving his POV around. And that was the LEAST offensive incident.

Was it just me, or did anyone else get visions of Braveheart at the murmuring of "Right of First Refusal". I saw the European overlords bearing down and snatching away defensive positions, carrying them off to their already fortified castles while Americans watched, the anger grew, and finally erupted in a fight at the village market.

My mind isn't working well lately.

#100 Papijoe
#107 piglet

Over here (UK), there were Golliwog characters on jars of Maramalade up until a few years ago.

It's just a cute black humanoid creature. Whether it was originally intended to be a racist 'depiction' of a black person or just got mutated into that, I don't know.

It spawned the derogatory word 'wog' to mean a black man in the UK. I have never heard it used in relation to an arab though.

I remember Golliwog stuffed toys were all the rage when I was under 10 (about 20 years ago now), but I never saw the racial connotations, until later.

108 Frank IBC

y'mach shmo

Couldn't find that in my Yiddishkeit dictionary.

I'm familiar with schmoe. Used to hear it all the time in fact...

Jeez,

I didn't read all the posts here, but I did read that dialogue on the MSN site.

If I were you all, I'd get some clarification on that sentence before sending someone like Clark to the gallows for treason.

The way I read it, Clark is saying that he would go before the EU/Nato to describe his actions before actually doing them (kind of like a good little ally). If they refuse, he doesen't say that he wouldn't still do it. All he is offering is to keep the Europeans involved, and not ignored

That paragraph quoted by charles is way to ambiguous to draw any real conclusions.

Don't over-react... it makes you just as bad as those churlish liberals.

I loved this site at first, but today it is just as engaged in baseless sensationalism as the far left looney sites.

Use your ability to reason... it is God's greatest gift to you.

~later.

I was trying to say "may his name be blotted out" but of course I mangled it horribly.

I guess it seems more like "may that schmuck be blotted out".

History lesson for Gen. Clark:

The Federal Income Tax was not established until ~140 years after the Declaration of Independence.

The truth about Wesley Clark is that he is deeply stupid (not just an Idiotarian, which is, let's face it, an ideological category to some extent), but dumb. He can't follow his own thoughts.

I was going to vent and get all indignant but WTF. This schmuck has zero chance of being elected, is suffering obviously from terminal stupidity (despite having graduated first in his class at West Point in '66) and is obviously having his strings pulled by the Clinton people who unless it's Hillary being elected in 2004 don't want ANY Democrat elected in 2004.

Fair enough, Rick, but why didn't he just say his foreign policies would be just like Bush's?

@22 Right Brain

"Because he knows they will keep him in check? "

No more like they will keep him in checks...moola that is.

And OT, but not way over:
For once Katie the Curabiacle skewered Dean with precise aim this morning. She left him...say...breathless. He was spouting the same ol' cut and paste he uses everytime he's interviewed. Oh yes, he labeled Bush as the president that the SCOTUS choose, that Gore won the election in Florida.
I wish we could get a copy of the transcript of his interview so he could get a bloody fisking for his lies.
And he's spouting he'll take the country in a different direction than Bush. So, what is he going to do...out do Clark or Kucinich? De militerize the country and bring in the blue helmets?
I think I smell an ugly uprising if he even attempts that.

He really said that?
HOOO BOY.
I've said it before ,and I'll say it again about Clark.

What a maroon.

Speaking of Fisk, I like #67's suggestion that all the Dem wannabes get the Idiotarian of the Year award. After all, Sports Illustrated and Time have gone to group winners in the past for their year-end platitudes.

Talk about foot in mouth awards! Sheesh. I don't think we need to worry about this guy anymore.

#78 - Yep, you've hit the nail on the head. The crazed attitudes and bizarre spoutings of the LLL - and those candidate who would humor them - are based upon self-hate.

American LLL's simply hate, hate, HATE the fact that they are American. Despite recent evidence to the contrary, they are still convinced that EVERYthing in Europe is better than it is here - the culture, the intellectuals, the politics, the economy, the education, etc.

An ordinary person with common sense appreciates some aspects of European countries but does not allow zealotry to blind him to the worst aspects of those countries - the long and not-yet-dead history of anti-Semitism, the blind obesiance to "multiculturalism," the brain drain, the strikes, the thousands who die when the weather is too warm.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to admire some European countries and their inhabitants, but LLL's blindly admire all the worst aspects, and cannot stand that those parts of society have not yet been implemented here. And they're desperate to suck up to some of Europe's worst elements, too, which is how we've arrived at the spectacle of a U.S. general seemingly offering Europe the right to decide how the US protects itself.

Nothing's stopping the LLL's from leaving for Europe, of course, except for the fact that, deep down, they know they have it better here than they would in those other countries that they claim to admire. And this makes them hate themselves all the more.

Oh Clark...you mean _these_ guys?

"Annan: Iraq is too dangerous for UN"

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

@74 Abu in Houston

What..what..? Is there any more news on the escorted commercial jet?

If Clark actually becomes president it would be good thing if the Europeans have veto power over American military action. At the end of the Kosovo bombardement Clark ordered a British general to fire on Russian troops swarming into Pristina airport. He refused, thank God!!

He should be running for Secretary General of the UN, not for the Presidency of the US.

I've always thought he was dangerous in the stark staring nuts sort of way. I still believe it.

Remember, this is the same guy that was embarrassed when the Russians stole a march on him and took control of that Serbian airport during our nation's efforts to save Kosovo's muslims. Clark's incredible response then was to order an assault on the Russians. The Brit officer under his command refused to obey, saying in effect that he was about to start WWIII for Clark.

Yeah, that's General "Right of First Refusal" on the job.

I fear that he is typical of all the military officers installed by the Clintonistas during their eight year reign of error.

"...consult with you first..."

Yeah, that'll speed up our bloated bureaucracy... hey wait a second, a government that does nothing would be a good thing, where do I sign?

@118 Roger L. Simon

ROTHFLMAO!

@115 Rick

How is it you can jump to the conclusion of what the quality of the posts are here, if you haven't read them?
Kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time isn't it?

These candidates are frightening me!

They ALL want to join hands and sing kumbaya -again and again and again --until the people who hate us and want to kill us stop.

Stupid, indeed.

Somebody has called the Democratic Party's foreign policy perscription "The Frenchification of American Foreign Policy."

The whole democratic platform is a comedy of errors. It would be funny if it weren't for the fact it isn't a fantasy.

#120

"Fair enough, Rick, but why didn't he just say his foreign policies would be just like Bush's? "

You are a genius (i meant that, seriously).

With what I read from the dialogue, his policy would be just like the current Bush administrations. Bush gets a particularly bad rap with all the "unilateralism" bull, but really, if you call it what it is, I'd say Bush say's what he means and means what he says. That's what I love about that guy.

Clark could have just said "I will follow the Bush doctrine, but just state it in a way that won't piss off our euro-allies as much". Note the "as much" caveat.

A side note, and one of my observation only:

The elections of Bush and Sharon have caused nearly universal polarization in this world, and it is not really their fault.

In Europe, the anti-american left used to be exposed for what they were by the "reasonable" intellectuals, however, the anti-americans now cover their agendas by saying "I'm not anti-american, I'm anti-Bush", and so with that lie, anti-americanism is spreading like a cancer.

The anti-semites have that same cover with Sharon. When accused of blatant anti-semitism, they say "I'm not anti-semitic, I'm anti-Sharon", and the Europeans give them a pass.

There are real enemies to freedom loving people in the world, and they all end in "ISM": Anti-americanism, ant-semitism, and islamism (I dont' even need to add "radical" to that last one).

I'm no supporter of clark, but I'm not going to jump on any bandwagon until I see something more than what appears to be a quote taken out of context.

Bottom line, from reading that article, Clark would no more trust our security to the Europeans as he would to Saudi Arabia. All he is saying is that he would keep them involved.

And it really seems like Clark would just follow Bush's example, but probably re-package it (like politicians do).

I chided some people for over-reacting without obviously reading the article in question. I read about 2/3 of the responses, and then jumped to the bottom to respond.

I fashion myself a "neo-con", and I like to think things through before belting out a response. We who align ourselves with the "right" should fashion our answers carefully and considerately, since emotion, reaction, and innacuracy are hallmarks of the looney left.

Just my $.02.

The first refusal Clark will get will come from American voters.

Listening to the news on the car radio a couple of hours ago when it was reported that Clark in a speech today said he was considering Hillery Clinton as a running mate. After a good laugh the wife and I decided that there was a possibility that either we or Clark have gone through life not knowing what the term "running mate" meant.

Rick,

Careful with the -ism bit, it gets picked up innappropriately.

I can't believe that these Democrats actually think this is going to be a winning strategy. They think a majority of the voters are going to agree that the United States must act only in concert with the EU and that the EU should have a veto over our actions. It's stunning to me that they think this is going to work. Clearly they have fallen back into the pre 1992 days whereby they misjudged their leftist base for the country at large. They are going to go down hard but it will get really really ugly. Lieberman must stand up as a modern day Scoop Jackson. He must argue at the convention to stop the insanity. He cannot be elected but he needs to create a third way between the moonbat left and the opportunistic Clintonistas for a genuine Democratic centrism

Why is this not a major news story?

Good question.

A recent Gallup poll shows Clark in the number 2 spot: "According to a new Gallup poll, 25 percent of registered Democrats across the country support Dean, compared with 17 percent who support retired General Wesley Clark."

When the number 2 Democrat candidate makes such a statement, that's a significant development:

"And I would say to the Europeans, I pledge to you as the American president that we'll consult with you first.  You get the right of first refusal on the security concerns that we have."

Where is the "mainstream" media?
 

#140 William

Where is the "mainstream" media?

They must be embarassed for him.

Nah./

Hokay, I tried to keep silent, but I can't stand the neo-con hysteria any longer:

I'm a Kennedy Democrat, which means that I'm very liberal here in the States, yet think that we should kick the living crap out of anyone that f***'s with the US.

Many of you have had a great time bashing General Clark for the PARTIAL quote above. Let's get this straight: The General was throwing down the gauntlet in VERY diplomatic terms: He was saying that we would respect Europe if they would respect our wants/needs. Why do so diplomatically? I dunno, maybe because that's how you fight a war with 17 allies and make it work.

Think that's crap? Well, who else proposed, fought, and won a war--using only Europe for allies--and not losing a single US life? Bush?! Bwahahaha...that would be a funny concept if it wasn't so criminally stupid.

The header for this topic is a torrid misquote, and it sickens me that we should sink to debating this.

I don't want "justice" for the 3000 that we lost 2yrs ago, I want a giant pile of Taliban/al Queda bodies that is at least twice as high as the pyres we lit. I want vengeance. But most of all, I want the best man for the job. If you want to judge Clark by a nuance taken out of context, then so be it. But I'd rather have a proven winner.

Many of you have had a great time bashing General Clark for the PARTIAL quote above. Let's get this straight: The General was throwing down the gauntlet in VERY diplomatic terms: He was saying that we would respect Europe if they would respect our wants/needs.

The quote is not "partial" or "out of context."  Also, there is a link to the full transcript.

And did Europe respect America's security needs last March, when France and Germany both declared they would veto any UNSC resolution explicitly stating that the UN would exercise military force to enforce the prior 17 UNSC resolutions?

You are asleep, just like Clark.

But most of all, I want the best man for the job.

Here's a thought experiment for you: would Islamic terrorists prefer to deal with a Bush/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft administration, or some other Democrat team?
 

I've been a Clark supporter for some time. From the sound of most of the posts above, many people have formed a conclusion about Clark based upon a single quote.

I encourage Clark haters to tune into CSPAN once in a while. Listen to him give a speech to a small breakfast crowd or a town meeting and - this is important - stay tuned long enough for the Q&A. The man is SMART. He has VISION. He has COURAGE. He's a LEADER.

He has my vote.

I'm ex-military, and I know some folks who worked with Clark. He may be a smart man (Rhodes scholar and all), but somewhere along the way he began believing his sh*t doesn't stink. Because of his high opinion of himself, he stopped listening to his staffs -- and he stopped learning.

As a result, Clark developed a tendency to make sh*t up during an operation (as he did during Kosovo), to shoot from the hip, even though the services had developed perfectly good doctrine on how they'd do things. And he later tended to rationalize the reasons for what he did. If anyone on his staff was brave enough to try to make a point, Clark would eviscerate him. These are not good presidential traits.

Hackworth called it right: "a pampered perfumed prince."

#s 142, 144. It's a free country, vote for him. In fact if you feel that strongly, vote for him 3 or 4 times. Hell I'm going to vote absentee and in person for my man, the Reverend Al at least a dozen times and thats not counting my dogs and cats and the kids pet ferret (all duly registered Democrats and regular absentee voters). Think Clark can beat my man Al? Not even if he had all the troops in NATO and the Chinese Red Cross backing him up. You guys must be on some kind of white power militant trip or something.

I've been a Clark supporter for some time. From the sound of most of the posts above, many people have formed a conclusion about Clark based upon a single quote.

Now, to which Wesley Clark are you referring, this one?

"I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Paul O'Neill--people I know very well--our president, George W. Bush. We need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in Europe."

Wesley Clark
May 11, 2001
Lincoln Day dinner, Pulaski County Republican Party

The Boston Globe
September 19, 2003

Clark says he probably would have voted for war

By Joanna Weiss

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- Retired Army General Wesley K. Clark said yesterday that he probably would have voted for the congressional resolution that authorized President Bush to wage war in Iraq.

Reuters
September 19, 2003

Gen. Clark Says He Would Have Voted No on Iraq War

By Kay Henderson

IOWA CITY -- Democratic presidential hopeful Wesley Clark said on Friday he would never have voted for war in Iraq, 24 hours after he told reporters he probably would have supported the Congressional resolution authorizing the United States to invade.

Clark...

I am forced to conclude that his mother should have smothered him, sold the milk and raised the placenta.

1982 Noble Prize in Literature winner Gabriel Garcia Marquez has given a description of Wesley Clark: The Man of War and The Man of Letters, and pointed out that Clark is a close personal friend of European Union FM Javier Solana.

Newsweek, May 8, 2000: The Kosovo Cover-Up

@145 Ol' Southern Boy

You're quoting Hackworth? As in Colonel David Hackworth? Try [Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...] where he says:

Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince." Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was wrong – the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen, U.S. SecDef at the time.

or try [Link: www.maximonline.com...]

or try thinking for yourself for a change...go to [Link: www.clarkmyths.com...] if you'd like some facts for a change.

I still say the BEST man for the job of slaying UBL, and for piling up terrorist bodies, is the same guy who has proven that he can win wars and win peace, all while making friends instead of enemies.

Clark’s interview has been moved to a different URL.

It is now at

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3660578/" target="_blank">http://msnbc.msn.com/id/36605 78/">http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3660578/

That link will take you to the right place but it sure looks unreassuring. Here it is again:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3660578/

Athos #63
I understand your reaction to Clark but be careful, brother. The man you're referring to is Adm. Jim Stockdale, POW in Hanoi and the man who purposefully disfigured himself to avoid being propaganda for the Viets - he provided the primary leadership for the Hanoi POW's, at great risk to himself, including torture in a fashion few of us on this board could either understand or tolerate.
I suggest you do a bit of research on the man and his history before you casually put him in the same country as Clark.