That's fucking awesome!

This is very reassuring.

On the other hand, Ambassador Welch may have lost some friends back at Foggy Bottom by being too blunt.

A diplomat with nuts!
Who woulda thunk it!

oh my god..these egyptians are the biggest liars i have ever seen... just read this part of the interview

'we don't believe the American administration, particularly this one, is interested in genuine democratisation in the region. If we believe that the American administration really wants democracy in the Middle East; that means we have to disregard a lot of things like Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, etc. But even if we believe it, there is a very easy way to do it, and my point is: begin with Israel. Democratise Israel and then you will have a domino effect like you cannot believe. The region will almost immediately democratise. '''

so appearantly israel is not a democracy? someone should tell the labor party to stop spending so much time and money then on trying to defeat sharon in the next election..

and listen to this little tidbit of crap

"So you are telling me that if there were peace between Israel and the Palestinians, and a withdrawal to the 1967 borders tomorrow, we'd have thriving democracies throughout this part of the world?

Shukrallah: Yes, I believe so.

Welch: Really, on the same time scale?

Shukrallah: Pretty soon. """

The problem i think is that these sleaze are able to lie and decieve and they are rarely challenged ..that is why they get away with it

If only they would be this blunt with American journalists. Gotta love it.

I am impressed! Now if we could just replace all the OTHER ambassadors with people just like Ambassador Welch!

"So, does anybody else wanna negotiate?"

Pity this guy just amputated his career at the knees. A bit more blunt speaking is probably just what that part of the world needs...

#4: I think the time scale that Shukralla is referring to can be measured in millennia.

Nice!!!

Good for him! Although he probably will be murdered by some islamo-facist quite soon for saying that, in the country that he is in: Egypt.

A country that condoes the slaughter of the Coptic Christian Minority...if I were a Christian Egyptian today? I would move the fuck out and quick...Things are getting hairy over there...

Sorry I had to say, but hey loook where he is and look at what he said and who...you know?

Andrew B.

My favorite quote is "Can we move on, this is boring."

That pretty much sums up my opinion of issues concerning "Arab Dignity."

Charles..I dont know if you can get this in LA

PBS

Cantors: A Faith in Song
Thursday, December 18, 9:00pm
Jewish secular and religious music performed by cantors Alberto Mizrahi, Naftali Herstik and Joseph Molvany

In Stereo (CC)

on now...from Portugese Synagogue in Amsterdam

Where's PDM? I'm sure he could do a great picture of a moral compass going crazy.

Tell it like it is!

The ambassador's interrogators go from arguing abuse to arguing disrespect without acknowledging that one doesn't imply the other... we meant to disrespect that crazy bastard Hussein and we did -- to show the Arabs that their dictators are spineless cowards.

The Arabs moral compass hasn't gone crazy, the compass was broken and lost a long time ago, about the time Mohammed's minions destroyed the native Christian culture in Egypt.

F**K these Egyptian bastards, they talk about incitement to anger, why aren't they angry about the looting of their country by a small and unresponsive elite??? I guess it is OK to humiliate an Arab by screwing him up the ass, as long as you don't ever refer to in the press, or God forbid, televise the event.

It looks like they are due for their own reality TV moment at some point in the future when their own corrupt President gets pulled out of a spider hole.

Can the Arabs ever take personal esponsibility for becoming the most backward and ignorant people in the world?

Sh-t, we need to start using our "Kucinich brand Mind Control Satellites" more often.

I think what makes people angry is that the US fails to see how this kind of imagery will inflame people, and that they do it anyway, and that’s what really makes people angry. It is a misunderstanding of what is going to convince people.

How are we to know what type of imagery will inflame people if we don't show it? Host a focus group? Technically, any imagery could inflame people as it may not gel with the Koran or the Hadith.

Welch is a good man. This isn't the first time he's stood up to the Egyptian media, and I doubt it'll be the last.

Well I spoke way to soon.

We are speaking about an occupation that has lasted now for over 30 years. All this talk of peace processes has meanwhile lost the US an enormous amount of credibility. There is no Arab who does not believe the Americans could get Israel out of the Palestinian territories if they want to. I don't think anybody now seriously believes that if America tells Israel to go back to the June 1967 borders and allow the building of the Palestinian state, that it will not do so.

There it is in black and white. If this is the Arab view that Israel takes orders from the United States government then it is obvious we're at a serious crisis for the future.

c'est les arabes--nisht ge fehluh--like having a conversation with a baboon--you accomplish nothing and it pisses off the baboon

Let Colin Powell retire and make Welch Secretary of State.

*blink blink*...Now that is a truely impressive Fisking by any stretch of the imagination. Wow.

He should already know their moral compasses are crazy. That is his job. If he is just figuring that out now he is kind of slow. Unless he already knew that but didn't think they knew he knew it and thus let them know he knew even if they didn' know themselves.

Time for bed.

Good for you, Mr. Ambassador. Speak the truth and shame the devil!

Just like the Arabs always do, building an argument with the center of gravity outside the base of support. Kind of like a New York Times editorial.

10 Eric 12/18/2003 09:14PM PST

My favorite quote is "Can we move on, this is boring."

f**king "A" right it is! that is the diplomatic equivelent of bruce willis saying yippy kyaay mutherf***er and shooting him between the eyes.

that whole exchange was awsome, those asswipes need to spend a little more time worrying about the dignity of innocent victims rather than sympathy for the devil. I find it very telling when I hear anyone from any culture exhibiting "missplaced compassion"

I gotta agree!

Can we move on because this is boring...

Bwaaahaaahaaa!!!

EU thwarts PLO's anti-Israel move in UN

The European Union countries have foiled a PLO initiative to challenge Israel's credentials at the UN, specifically Israel's right to represent the territories.

Early this week the PLO delegation to the UN distributed a draft resolution that said: "The PLO representative in the UN is the representative of the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including East Jerusalem."

The resolution was meant to be voted on in the General Assembly on Wednesday, in a routine affirmation of the credentials of countries represented in the UN. But the EU was vehemently opposed to the resolution, regarding it as an attempt to undermine Israel's legitimacy.

EU representatives met with PLO Ambassador Nasser al-Kidwa, telling him that exploiting the routine votes on country credentials crossed "a red line."

Apparently the EU does have its limits (who knew?) Unlike the sly Palestinians who have no scruples whatsoever.

NBC-TV report: American administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, survived pipe bomb assassination attack 2 weeks ago

???

rumcrook (#23)

My favorite quote is "Can we move on, this is boring."

Absolutely! The ultimate smack-down. He's not the only one who's bored with their nonsense either.

#25 zulubaby --

I am totally shocked by this. I just can't imagine that they did this for Israel. There must have been an ulterior motive. After all, the EU Sucks just less than Islam.

Islam Sucks (#28)

I had the same thought, that there is something else going on but I don't really care at this point, at least they told the Palestinians to go shove it. Did you read this part?

When it became evident that its resolution would fail to win a majority, the PLO legation said it would not seek a vote at this stage, but rather sometime later in the current session of the UN, which means any time between now and next September.

It's not over yet, and who knows what they told the Palestinians, but for now, the EU said no. We'll see ...

This is one of my favorites

Shuckralla:

But let me get back to the democratisation issue and then move to other questions. The point I was trying to make when I said that Israel is an obstacle to democratisation in the Middle East is that we have a heritage of national humiliation that is extremely profound in the Arab world.

and Welch's response

I happen to believe that despite this sense of humiliation that you talk about, that people are coming around to look at these issues more carefully and are debating them more. Perhaps you don't like it if the debate started with the words that we say, but if you could set that aside for a second, and ask, you know, yourselves, what you want, and how would your future be better, that would help.

It's refreshing to hear his straight talk.

Are you sure that guy is from OUR state department???

This may be my favorite administration ... for the rest of my life just for all the great funny quotes... like

"International law ? I better get my lawyer!"

First:

Welch: UN Resolution 242, the basis of a just solution to the Arab-Israeli problem, was passed in 1967. It took until 1978 for one Arab country to recognise it and implement it. It took another 10 years for the remainder of the Arab countries to catch up to that fact.

Shukrallah: That is a very special reading of the history of the region. I think it took Israel a very long time to accept it. It needed a war, the October war, for Israel to accept it.

As can be seen below, absolutely untrue.

[Link: www.likud.nl...]

Khartoum summit: the three Arab no's against Israel

31. Resolution adopted at the Arab Summit Conference in Khartoum, 1 September 1967.

(3) The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of 5 June. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.

2.

don't know if it's naiveté or just sheer arrogance when you tell us you're building hospitals and schools in Iraq, while we know that this country -- in spite of all of Saddam's crimes -- had the best educational and health systems in the Arab world. You speak about Iraq as if you're speaking about the bush, like they are tribes with bones running through their noses.' -- Shukrallah

Imagine if an Israeli said such a racist thing.
I remember the Masai tribesmen sending NYC 10 cows after 9/11. They are brave Mensch's. No, bone through the nose but...

[Link: teacherlink.ed.usu.edu...]

The men color their hair red with clay from the ground and they cut their ear lobes and insert earrings. To prove their braveness, teenage boys scar their bodies with heated spears.

I know who I want standing on my side in a fight.

[Link: www.museum.upenn.edu...]

Body piercing, tattooing, painting in the galleries of the
University of Pennsylvania Museum.

Painful as it might feel, the practice of piercing a hole through the skin and inserting a piece of metal, bone, shell, ivory or glass to wear as an ornament has been around for millennia.

Male with pierced ear,
Iraq, 9th century B.C.

Detail from a Relief
Palace of Assur-nasir-pal, Nimrud, Iraq, 9th century B.C.
29-21-1

This detail is from a relief of a winged genius carrying a lustration pail and pine cone and is incised with a standard 20-line inscription stating the power of King Assur and listing his conquests.

Here's another funny.

Nevine Khalil: And what if there is democracy in the region and the people decide to elect governments that are not friendly to the US? What would you do about that?

Welch: You mean like France?

Jeez...the Arabist Quislings at Foggy Bottom must have choked on their Brie en croute when they heard that! Not to mention the SINFUL waste of perfectly good Chardonnay - French, of course - accidentally spilled on the carpet...

Expect that scumbag Richard Boucher (State's official press flack, for those who might be new here) to issue some kind of official retraction/apology in the next couple of days - just before he sheds his skin and slithers back up the tree.

Nyier Abdou: Whether or not you want to call it abuse, there certainly is a distinction between showing somebody in this manner and showing them in a more dignified way. I think what makes people angry is that the US fails to see how this kind of imagery will inflame people, and that they do it anyway, and that's what really makes people angry.

We haven't failed to see anything. It's true that we don't particularly care if certain people "will be inflamed", but the point is- we simply don't accept that we should be intimidated by the threat of "inflamed people". And it's not as if we are deliberately trying to enflame people either. It doesn't even occur to us that we should care. Your culture of failure and institutionalized loserhood doesn't even make it onto the radar. Even when we see you guys running round burning our flags, desperately trying to piss us off in any way possible, we simply shrug it off- it doesn't register to us that you can be taken serious. And you will probably never see anyone over here burning an Egyptian flag- because bottom line, you have shown time after time after time- that your country is not serious, and you simply don't matter.

Nice pyramids though. And the sphinx is swell.

#16 axiom aka Malik al-Malook

There it is in black and white. If this is the Arab view that Israel takes orders from the United States government then it is obvious we're at a serious crisis for the future.

Oh ... but what happened to the good old Arab axiom that American government take orders from the Jews???

They can't have it both way, or can they.

Actually, the claim that Israel is a creation of "American imperialism", or "marionette of the American imperialism" predates the later antisemitic folklor of the Arabs. It was rhetoric imported from the Soviets by the pan-Arabic Ba'ath Party in the early 50s.

#4 choked on this...

begin with Israel. Democratise Israel

to these a-holes this means the Palestinian "right of return" in order to win at the ballot box (as if they'd ever give up on bullets)

Did you notice the point in the debate where the Egyptians 'oh, by the way' asked about current US$$ aid we're giving them just now, mentioned in passing that we've been giving them $$ for the past 25 years, and then turned right back around and resumed chewing on Ambassador Welch?

Between 1979 and 1990 the US sold Egypt a large quantity of weapons. In late December 1990, however, President George H.W. Bush forgave Egypt's entire $6.7 billion "Foreign Military Sales" (FMS) debt to America, just because they'd helped us in Operation Desert Shield. In effect we freely gave them a gift of $6.7 billion worth of weapons and goods. On top of that, we have also been giving them annual foreign aid payments ever since.

The Arab nations are acting just like spoiled rich-kids who've been given too many freebie allowance payments. Instead of genuine, deserving gratitude and honest commerce and interaction, they've consistently given us little in return but smart-mouth lip and criticism, and overt or covert encouragement and even support of, suicide bombers. The lack of an honest exchange turns someone into a criminal, either in thought or in deed.

It's quite predictable (and actually a criticism of our generous US foreign aid program): When an individual or a group cannot (or will not) produce an honest, ethical product and thus pay their own way in life, then their ethical and/or moral compass loses calibration and they lean towards unethical criminal tendencies.

Maybe it's payback time. What would the Egyptians' response be if Ambassador Welch had said, "We've decided that it's time for Egypt to start sending a little aid money back to America. We'll expect just $300 million a year from you, for the next 25 years. We also demand the right for our press to constantly cut you off at the knees, but no more than you folks have done to us."

Tapdance alert: Did you notice how the definition (and practice) of democracy was carefully avoided, by the Egyptians? Their honor and dignity aren't above receiving pots full of free (democratic) US money, but for them to embrace the democratic freedoms that enabled America to become so happily productive and generous (and thus enable them to honestly make their own way on this planet) somehow escapes them as a desirable objective.

Maybe they're afraid of their women getting the right to vote. The next thing their women will want is to learn to read and write, and then they'll demand the right to not be circumcised... [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Omigawd! President Bush has gone too far!!!

Congrats to Baldy for finding this interview. It needs to be splashed across the US media.

The Egyptian reporters didn't see a difference between Saddam getting looked at for lice (embarrasing, sure, but) and the Iraqi goons playing with the corpses of dead GIs?

EFFF 'EM

I hope the Iraqi media is taking note of how their "Arab brothers" in Egypt sympathise with Saddam.

...sweet!

I hope the good ambassador decides to permanently suspend with the "diplomatic niceties" when dealing with the Egyptian press.

The Egyptian government allows no domestic criticism, but sanctions the use of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism as outlet valves for the frustrations of the press.

Having engaged in conversations with quite a few Arab journalists over the last four years (I work at a media foundation), I would concur that about 70% of them have a moral compass gone awry.

Welch is my new hero--a diplomat whose words are refreshingly free of diplommatic cant. He represents everything that is best about the US--a canny, plain talking, cut-the-crap kind of guy who does not suffer fools and refuses to entertain the delusions of his hosts. If only he were the Secretary of State instead of that other guy.

Tamron: You raise an interesting question regarding the the actual costs to American taxpayers for the first Gulf War. Those that opposed the current invasion like to cite the coalition that President GWH Bush built to support the defense of Kuwait. Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Egypt all made contributions in that war to the point where they paid for nearly all the 75 billion estimated cost.

However, relieving debt with Egypt is an obvious concession the US made to gain Egyptian support. Syria went on the US payroll in order to gain their support as they know longer had a Soviet sugar daddy to appeal to. Surely someone must have investigated this by now, but if the US did find that other nations would pay for the first Gulf War did we really escape financing the war if we were relieving nearly 7 billion in debt to the nations that joined the coalition?

My favorite quote is where D. Welch tells the Arabs that Israel is at the center of their universe, and as long as that continues to be so, they can't basically see past their blinders/get a life:

If I may say something that I hope you will not misunderstand -- if every issue is related to the American issue on Israel, then logically it is possible to interpret every American action and position as related to Israel. So in a sense I am almost condemned before I even start to do the thing that you are concerned about. If this is the centre of your universe, then it does not matter what I say or do. I only ask you to read my words when I say them.

In other words, he tells the Arab journalists to pull their heads out of their @$$es, and begin to hear and see the reality, and present the reality, as opposed to the Soviet-style propaganda they write:

I have this funny feeling that lots of people here do not read what we say and do not look at what we do; they only hear the views of others about what we have said, or what we have done, despite every effort we make to propagate our views.

It strikes me like this guy IS NOT on the Saudi payroll.
David Welch for Secretary of State!

“Your moral compass has gone crazy.”

Add this to your list of page titles, Charles.

The refrain is always the same since 9/11. Successful U.S. action will humiliate the proud Arab/Muslim people and inflame their wrath to an unseen extent. Sorry, this is a kind of wishful thinking, and the worst kind of collectivism. These journalists just cannot admit that the images of Saddam treated like a wino in an ambulance were not the kind of public torture they were prepared to see.

Charles- Thank you for the hat tip. I had to re-read some parts of this interview because I couldn't believe this was a US Ambassador, but then saw that he had upset the Egyptians before.

...is that we have a heritage of national humiliation that is extremely profound in the Arab world.

This is key to a lot of what is going on in the ME. They know that they are second rate, but they can't stand the thought that it is their fault, they have to blame it on someone else. The smart ones know that to progress they need freedom, but if they have fredom much of their lifestyle is going to change and they don't want that. I mean, what free woman would get cut?

This guy Welch rocks!

In the last week I've heard so much of this humiliation crap that I feel humilated for them. What a bunch of momma's boys. For crying out loud suck it up pals and get on with it. It's embarassing to say we're the same freakin' species. If Scarlet O'Hara was humiliated all the time...you get the picture.

Humiliation/ navel-gazing #1001:
[Link: apnews.excite.com...]

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Was he an Arab hero or a dictator? This is the question being debated in newspapers in the Middle East and by Arab intellectuals faced with the image of a bearded, bedraggled Saddam Hussein in the hands of American captors.

Answer: he was an Arab hero and a dictator, these are the Arab heroes: despots.
Too bad Edward Said is not around to capitalize on their victimimized feelings.

I meant "victimized" - preview is my friend

OT: Florida Islamic Conference Outed As Jihad-Fest (Scheduled for 12/19) [Link: www.pipelinenews.org...]

OT: SINGAPORE : Muslim students and their parents should be more discerning with their choice of overseas madrasahs, says senior Malay MP and former MUIS President Zainul Abidin Rasheed. [Link: www.channelnewsasia.com...] Another commented: "It doesn't mean that if you send them overseas, they become bad."

"Can we move on because this is boring..."

The same should be said to Moveon.org.

Y'all need to let Welch and everyone from the WH to the State Dept. to your reps know that you support this kind of straight talk.

Send those e-mails, make those calls. Democracy in action, blah, blah, blah...

That's why we pay you the big bucks Welch - you rule! If it were me, I'd have just spouted a string of obscenities then OC sprayed the lot. But your way was more effectice.

I think your moral compass has gone crazy. I think you should be looking at the Iraqi people and their reaction to this. Your reaction puzzles me to be honest. Can we move on because this is boring...

I concur w/zulubaby, rumcrook, et al. This was a total smackdown of these imbeciles and their inverted universe. Instead of constantly pandering to these people and their pychoses, we should take a page from Ambassador Welch and unapolegetically tell it like it is. Assuming no one steps up and blows away Arafat within the next twelve days, Ambassador Welch should be LGF's anti-idiotarian of the year.

Assuming no one steps up and blows away Arafat within the next twelve days, Ambassador Welch should be LGF's anti-idiotarian of the year.

Absolutely!

And extra credit for the shot at the French.

Nevine Khalil: And what if there is democracy in the region and the people decide to elect governments that are not friendly to the US? What would you do about that?

Welch: You mean like France? This is a good opening. Forgive me because I am not a very good diplomat and I tend to say what's on my mind and I say it straight. It may at times bother you a little bit, but I don't mean any offense. I just believe in honesty. So I am going to be very honest.

This a very good line (not quoted)

Welch: If you've made up your mind beforehand, I welcome your views, but there is obviously no room for discussion of them.

#45 Scaramouche:

Welch is my new hero--a diplomat whose words are refreshingly free of diplommatic cant. He represents everything that is best about the US--a canny, plain talking, cut-the-crap kind of guy who does not suffer fools and refuses to entertain the delusions of his hosts. If only he were the Secretary of State instead of that other guy.

Indeed!!!

How's this for total ignorance:

I don't know if it's naiveté or just sheer arrogance when you tell us you're building hospitals and schools in Iraq, while we know that this country -- in spite of all of Saddam's crimes -- had the best educational and health systems in the Arab world.

You know it's funny, I heard view from Ireland say exactly the same thing. Too bad when someone asked her for a source, she didn't have this guys name.

See, that's why all those medical supplies were stockpiled in warehouses, the Iraqi hospitals were just overflowing with them, and they had to store them elsewhere. And don't forget all the research that went into infancy mortality, heck they were so concerned about that that every week they took all the dead babies and paraded them through the streets of Baghdad.

And education? Iraq was a stream flowing with intellectual development, higher education and cutting edge scholarly research into virtually every conceivable theoretical achievement.
Hell the female literacy rate is 24.4%

humillliation

[Link: www.newsday.com...]

65 Geepers

whats the problem?

that IS the best in the arab world

:-P

Shukrallah: "...everybody knows that if Israel ends the occupation, the reason for violence will have been removed."

What horsesh*t. He conveniently fails to mention that it is the fact that Israel exists and is full of Jooos that the Palestinians (and friends) want to kill that is the ultimate cause of the "violence." (What a mild word for their bloody terrorism!)

Another good quote from the article reads as follows:

If I may say something that I hope you will not misunderstand -- if every issue is related to the American issue on Israel, then logically it is possible to interpret every American action and position as related to Israel. So in a sense I am almost condemned before I even start to do the thing that you are concerned about. If this is the centre of your universe, then it does not matter what I say or do. I only ask you to read my words when I say them. I have this funny feeling that lots of people here do not read what we say and do not look at what we do; they only hear the views of others about what we have said, or what we have done, despite every effort we make to propagate our views.

Well put.

You know it's funny, I heard view from Ireland say exactly the same thing. Too bad when someone asked her for a source, she didn't have this guys name.

The UN, always searching for ways to legitimize thuggish regimes, cited Iraq's 'universal' health care system as a model for the developing world in the late 1970's. I don't have a source either, but it did occur.

Jeebus... let's not create a drinking game in which everybody takes a drink when the arab asshat says "humiliate". I don't think my liver could take that.

The scary thing is that I bet they printed this thinking they got the best of the Ambassador, exposed his hypocrisy and lies, etc...

Why even try. Hansen's great piece today in TNR asks why the European's get so bent out of shape over the US and Israel and seem untroubled by the true disasters in Grozny, Sudan, etc.. Its because the US actually listens to them.

I know that I'm tone deaf to it all by now.

Welch for SoS!

I can't believe we have such a guy representing the US!

I float this idea.

Why don't we hand out honorary diplomas or honors for guys like these. Make them honored anti-idiotarians! We can simply just mail them to their business address with a note. I'm sure they would appreciate the attention.

Make them honorary Lizardziod Minions awarded by LGF. I'm sure PDM can come up with something very official looking and Charles AKA "Our Massster" can scrawl his name on it. We can have the giant lizard from Star Trek watermarked in the background.

I'd even donate more to the tin cup for postage.

other potentials:

VDH
Steyn
Even "Gimli" and James Woods

How 'bout it?

I for one, would like to nominate Mr. Welch for a Nobel Peace Prize. As I see it, true peace comes from staring ignorance straight in the face, calling a spade a spade, and being able maintain an open and truthful heart even when faced with thinly veiled prejudice, ignorance, condescencion, and hatred.

All Americans should feel true pride for the works and the words of this diplomat.

thank you Mr. Ambassador.

BiographyHighlights:C. David Welch was sworn in by Secretary of State Colin Powell on August 3, 2001 as U. S. Ambassador to the Arab Republic of Egypt.

From 1979 to 1981, Ambassador Welch was a political officer in the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. In 1979, the staff of the Embassy was given a Group Valor Award after the Embassy was attacked and burned by a mob and four staff members were killed.

Looks like the Egyptian press doesn't like him very much: The Egyptian Press Against US-Ambassador Welch: 'The Arrogant Ambassador Representing the Imbecile Bush

I don't think the terrorists like him much either: Suspected assassins fire shots at U.S. ambassador to Egypt

I did not know the US government broadcast anything? I thought they just released stills and video to the American hating independent press organizations. Are not those organizations the ones responsible for the “humiliation”?

#69 Anti Idiotarian Hall of Fame

VDH and others shouldn't be "disqualified", rather they belong in a Hall of Fame.

These reporters are rabble-rousers, for the most part. They really are just organs for hatred and prerpetuate violence. Of course, it isn't violence if it's directed at Israel. Or the US. Y'know. 'Cause we deserve it for telling the reporters to be truthful and check their facts — like what countries really armed Saddam... (Hint: they begin with Russia and France.) These reporters wilfully oppose the truth, because the center of their universe is jew-hatred.

I Like this little exchange:

Shaden Shehab: But you've said you don't intend to impose democratisation, whereas there are lots of theories about the US imposing on issues like education, religious institutions, and the press. What do you think about that?

Welch: As I said, I don't think this will work if imposed from the outside. I am glad you asked that question because I don't think we're trying to do that, and I would like to clear up any confusion in that respect. How would you measure our intervention, for example, in the area of education, where we do everything from providing assistance for the building of schools, to things that are less straightforward, like the participation of girls in education? For example, we have a scholarship programme that enables young girls to go to school. We translate books into Arabic. I don't know if you consider that an intervention that is unacceptable, but there are ones that are agreed with the government of Egypt.

Shehab: I am talking about intervention like when you said you want to eliminate the atmosphere of hatred and anger in the region, and that could be done via education, especially in the realm of religious courses.

Don't you touch my hatred and anger!

If the Egyptians are so concerned about our humiliating them, the first thing they need to do is give back the $2 billion we send them yearly.

I mean, it's just crumbs from our table! How dare we treat them as such inferiors.

Give back the $2 billion, Egypt! Your honor is at stake!!

"Can we move on because this is boring..."

Charles, I think this quote TOO would make an excellent addition to the list of rotating page names.

Here's another "thwak!" delivered by the Ambassador:

America does not covet territories, it does not covet resources, and it does not covet your decision.

This guy is a legend.

Not so fast...

I like Welch too. Not a succubus. But he is dead wrong about one thing.

The line "I think your moral compass has gone crazy" assumes these people had a valid moral compass in the first place.

They don't, never had and probably never will.

A Fair Shake

The "thwaks!" keep on coming!

Welch: ...At the end of the day, there is the decision of all decisions, the mother of all decisions for the Iraqi people. They have, for the first time in their modern political history, a genuine choice.

Gamal Nkrumah: They don't.

Welch: Really? Since when did you become Iraqi?

"Can we move on because this is boring..."

This encapsulates my attitude towards the whole of the Democratic dwarves running for President.

4 more years!!!

Someone should create two different certificates (idiotarian and anti-idiotarian) that could be mailed to the winners of both contests along with a list of how many people voted for them and the single piece that put them over the top if possible.

I would love to see Fiske get a little award saying so many thousand people voted him the idiot of the year for his body of work, it was all so stupid and insipid the judges couldn't pick one out of the batch.

@11 ploome

That will be a repeat performance. :)

I did watch the first one, and it was awesome.

It is a must see, don't miss it!

#78 Renna 12/19/2003 08:07AM PST

Looks like the Egyptian press doesn't like him very much:

The Egyptian Press Against US-Ambassador Welch: 'The Arrogant Ambassador Representing the Imbecile Bush

Holy crap! Those Egyptian journalists are completely insane.

If they speak for all of Egypt, why do they bother to look abroad for the sources of Arab humiliation, when all they have to do is check the nearest mirror!

Could those of you more internet-savvy than I find and post the email address of Ambassador Welch? I would love to send him kudos! Actually, I think it would be great to bombard him with kudos from all of us LGF readers.

@33 Peter S

*LMAO!

"Welch: You mean like France? "

That is absolutely priceless!

Wow. That's the kind of person I want to represent my country abroad.

Forgive me because I am not a very good diplomat and I tend to say what's on my mind and I say it straight. It may at times bother you a little bit, but I don't mean any offense. I just believe in honesty. So I am going to be very honest.

This guy's a hero.

Renna

amazing article you linked

i am reading, shaking my head

Renna, great links in #78 and #79. Thanks. I hope Charles updates this thread.

"The violence has not ended, but it is clearly at a lower level than it has been for sometime. And in this period, there was a lot of work underway to try and start down the roadmap, first "

But how many attempts have been stopped in their tracks to provide this "lower level"?
For one the Palis have not stopped trying.
Imagine being stopped in your car or bus at a roadblock for an hour or more because of a security offensive against a terrorist threat.

Welch, C. David
Ambassador, Egypt

BIOGRAPHY

A career Foreign Service Officer

This guy didn't just appear fully formed on a half shell. He's been working in the ME for 25 years.

I wonder who appointed him?

more from Renna's link

"Mr. American Ambassador knows very well, just like us, that the American press… is a press carefully orchestrated from above..

In contrast, the Egyptian press is guided only by the national conscience,

and when it determines that martyrdom operations [i.e. the suicide bombings] for the sake of liberating Palestinian territories are acts of courage – it is an historical testimonial…

Al-Gumhuriya does not pretend to be the only paper describing the heroism of the Palestinian martyrs; this is the position of all the Egyptian papers because it accurately reflects the feeling of the Egyptian people…" [7

AAARGHHH

In contrast, the Egyptian press is guided only by the national conscience

AAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

ROTFLMGO

Charles, "Guided only by the national conscience" might make another good rotating title...

His moral compass has been degaussed !

Here's a background reference that goes straight to the point, regarding Ambassador Welch's comments about wanting to send young girls to school:

[Link: www.globalenvision.org...]

"Amanda Howe: What has been the most surprising discovery in your research on the effectiveness of international and local programs that encourage the economic and civic participation of women in the Middle East?"

"Isabel Coleman: The power of girl’s education and the extraordinary leverage a country receives from educating girls. When you educate girls, child mortality rates fall dramatically, fertility rates fall dramatically, and the chances of that girl’s children being educated go up enormously. Educating boys doesn’t seem to have this same kind of effect."

"There are single digit literacy rates for girls in Afghanistan. That may be an extreme case but even in parts of Egypt – which is the second largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid – there are still parts of the country today in which only 20 or 30 percent of girls are literate. If the U.S. would insist that more of its foreign assistance go toward funding universal education for children, the many countries in the Middle East would be better off today. The world would be better off today."

(Emphasis added)

---

Sadly, it appears that Ambassador Welch was wasting his time in expecting stupidly-ignorant, arrogant male Egyptians to believe that they even need a better world. They certainly didn't give a positive response when he approached the subject.

For most of their entire life these same Egyptians have been getting a free ride as American welfare recipients, effectively being generously rewarded for their continuing ignorance and arrogance. What would be their possible incentive for wanting to change such a successful action?

This puts their status even lower than the average American street bum, who is at least trying to do right by holding up a sign stating "WILL WORK FOR FOOD."

Judging by their belligerent attitude and actions and desired results, those Egyptian-press bums should be holding up this sign: "WILL POISON YOU AND RUIN YOUR HOUSE, FOR FOOD."

All your moral compasses are belong to us.

Go Welch! I wish we could hear more of this from out leaders. You'd they'd have already reached the same point of frustration and "boredom."

The Egyptian interviewer whines, "you are flaunting the very principles on which the American Revolution was based." He lies like a dog. The very principles on which the American Revolution was based are love of freedom and hatred of tyranny and tyrants. The American Revolutionaries would've tarred and feathered the Beast of Bagdad on the spot, then hanged him, and sent drawings of His Tarred Feathered Hangedness across the land and around the world (lacking photography as they did in those days).

"The tree of liberty must be watered from time to time by the blood of tyrants and patriots." (or something like that) -- original Jefferson.

(Saddamn, the tree in Iraq has been watered by too many patriots. Now's your turn to contribute.)

in case no else said it regarding these 'journalists":
WHAT BUNCH OF DIP$H!TS!

Welch turns the tables on them:

Let's get serious. What I find completely illogical about this position [ie, Arabs can't democratize until Israel makes 'peace'] is that you cannot believe the reverse -- that democracy throughout the region might help you in achieving peace.

Beauty.

you guys are all hilarious and know nothing of what you're talking about. Take a trip to the Middle East or watch "uncensored" news to get a real feel of what's happening here.

#189 king farouk - Your Royal Highness, if it doth pleaseth you, please explain.