The difference of civilizations
Same degree earthquake
California: 6-8 dead
Iran: over 20,000 dead

Not all the civilizations are equal, are they now?

So that whole "shake the earth under their feet thing"has really workedout well for them, huh?

And once again, Israel shows her moral superiority and the islamofascist world shows that antisemitism is a higher priority than the wellbeing of its people.

Maybe God is sending them another message that they can't hear too well.

California: 6-8 dead
Iran: over 20,000 dead

It appears that even the earthquakes are determined to "humiliate" the muslim peoples.

bunch of racist earthquakes.

Re 3
Ye, those damn white/male-looking quakes

Was the AFP headline after 9/11, "America's arch foe France offers condolences on attack"?

wonder why these islmofascists are so afraid of Jews?

would you accept zionist aid if you knew there was arab blood in the matzo? I think not.

The Frech continue the silly belief that if they talk nice about Muslims, no ill will befall them. I quess that is whyMuslims rape the Frech women, control the streets and are planning on using French planes for terroism. Franklu I have no confidence France will survive. I have been to some of the Muslim cities in France, and it is not pretty. In 15 years France will resemble Istanbul in 1920. And then the Muslims will march the Frogs into the sea, jusr like the turks did to the Christian majority of Istanbul.

Not surprising. The mullahs that run Iran are almost as anti-Semitic as Europeans (or American leftists that project their emotions onto everyone else by calling conservatives "Nazis").

However, I'm still holding out hope for the Iranian people. I knew several in college, and they were really decent (if you get past the Polo cologne and disco shirts, that is).

I hope the death toll isn't 40,000 (as currently estimated).

Plus israel has world known, the best dogs and equipment for this..,because they have to deal with the errrr human earthquakes (bombs) in israel..and they are so close they could have the equipment there fast (as well as other things in the future for reactors..ying or yang..choice is up to them

Guess the Persians want to get in on the whole "No peace in Middle East until [Arabs] love their kids more than they hate Israel..." maxim.

I just hope the people in Iran most affected by this idiotic, suicidal policy are aware of their government's actions.

All of the Iranians I've met in the past few years swear a major upheaval is in the works. I hope they're right -maybe this will be the spark.

Jewish Americans it is noted, raising money or what ever they can do to help the quake victims... and my guess is is that these very same Jews do nothing for Israel. Jews as a group have a very destructive habit of reaching out to those who want you gone, and won't lift a finger for fellow Jews. Pisses me off.

from allahpundit.com :)))

"It appears as though a certain entity has gone and built itself an earthquake machine for Hanukkah. Oho! All that "shake the ground under their feet" bullshit has given you ideas, has it not? Glorious. And speaking of glorious, here is a nice yuletide e-mail

Arrrggg, I was just arguing on US Message boards that it is important that we respond to humanitarian crisis, regardless of the regime. This is almost enough to make me change my mind.

#14Arrrggg, I was just arguing on US Message boards that it is important that we respond to humanitarian crisis, regardless of the regime. This is almost enough to make me change my mind.
do you have a link?

OT - Deconstructing the House of Fraud: The Saudi Paradox

The Saudi state is a fragmented entity, divided between the fiefdoms of the royal family. Among the four or five most powerful princes, two stand out: Crown Prince Abdullah and his half-brother Prince Nayef, the interior minister. Relations between these two leaders are visibly tense. In the United States, Abdullah cuts a higher profile. But at home in Saudi Arabia, Nayef, who controls the secret police, casts a longer and darker shadow. Ever since King Fahd's stroke in 1995, the question of succession has been hanging over the entire system, but neither prince has enough clout to capture the throne.

Machiavelli would have run away screaming from this morass. A VERY long read, but well worth it.

Q: Why can't you circumcise an Iranian?

A: Just no end to those pricks.

What was it Golda Meir said about when there will finally be peace in the Middle East?

I thought the U.S. was Iran's "arch-foe". Have you guys been demoted or something?

I had noticed the long reports didn't mention Israel, which I presumed would heavily underline their humanity once again. When I thought to check it out Charles was several steps ahead. The Islamic Republic's position is an absolute disgrace and frustrates Israel at Iran's expense. How deeply depressing.

The AMERICAN JEWISH WORLD SERVICE (www.ajws.org) is asking for contributions for the victims of the earthquake. Iran has enough funds to build ICBMs, to attempt to achieve nuclear capability, to fund and arm hizbullah, and to train terrorists, so why do they need funds from American Jews?

There is a simple explanation for all of this. The Iranian mullahs have it on good authority that the Mossad was behind the quake. The epicenter was supposed to be under Iran's nuclear complex, but the Jooos missed their mark.

/Islamo-imbecile off

Ouch! My nose!

But boy, did I ever spite my face, I tell you what....!

(Posting from dialup at the in-laws in Dallas)

Tha problem is this:

When running an islamofascist govnmt, the Kuran provides little guidance on infastructure stuff like say--oh--i dunno-- mabey:-- BUILDING CODES!!!

d'oh!!

Hey Israel! WE'RE the Great Satan.
No cutting in line.

#19 scaramouche: I thought the U.S. was Iran's "arch-foe". Have you guys been demoted or something?

Apparently it's a rotating position, like the chair of the UN Human Rights Commission (Currently Libya, I believe?).

#23 gerry

I don't get it. If Iran won't accept assistance from Israel, why would it accept money from American Jews?

#18 NC-

This link will explain. Scroll mid-way down page for animation.

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/bureau/001429.h tml

24 Arvin

But the Koran is a wonderful guide for anyone still living in the 7th century.

Come to think of it, that is most Muslims.

I posted this on another thread:

The Mullahs are so pathetic.

A friend of mine recently returned from touring Iran. She speaks Farsi and Arabic and met alot of people. She really enjoyed Bam and thought the people there were so sweet and generous. She was invited into people's homes for dinner, even though they were poor and were living in mud-brick homes. The pictures she took of the Citidal and the people were amazing. She said the only unkind words they had were for the Mullahs.

The Mullahs are notorious for skimming the charities for profit. And now I hear from my friends living there that they are not accepting independent assistance unless it is aproved by the Supreme Council. Assholes.

They are so good at mobilizing the military when people are demonstrating. However, now that there are people freezing to death and dying from internal bleeding, they have to debate on what aid they can safely accept and the political repercussions for doing so. Again, assholes.
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------

#19 scaramouche

I thought the U.S. was Iran's "arch-foe". Have you guys been demoted or something?

Probably happened when we moved in next door.

#19 scaramouche

Actually, after deposing Saddam in just 3 weeks--Iran fought Iraq to a standstill for years--the mullah-cowards realize that The Great Satan's army is in the neighborhood. So, they are less interested in antagonizing the Great Satan at this time. After all, there are urgent fatwas to be issued regarding the proper methods of having sex with barnyard animals...

Now, if Israel would just obliterate Iran's nuclear complex and the US would just applaud the action, I think you'd hear the mullahs whistle a different tune. Something like "We were in the process of dismantling those facilities..."

Maybe the building codes are from the 7th century.

It boggles my mind, the difference in the death count between these types of countries and the US or Japan.

The other difference is capitalism, and various forms of socialism and tryanny. Or to put it another way, the difference between capitalism's building codes and all the others.

Capitalism seems to win every time. That must be humiliating for the anticapitalists.

#22 ibrodsky

There is a simple explanation for all of this. The Iranian mullahs have it on good authority that the Mossad was behind the quake. The epicenter was supposed to be under Iran's nuclear complex, but the Jooos missed their mark.

You're getting warmer... Here's the DU diagnosis:

Flagg (21 posts) Fri Dec-26-03 06:59 AM
Response to Original message

1. the US testing Tesla-type earthquake weapons ?

WE'RE the culprits! But I suppose it's a given that the Mossad is pulling our strings.

The quake largely destroyed the city's best-known structure, the 2,000-year-old Bam citadel. The tallest section of the ancient mud fortress crumbled like a sand castle.

Bam a medievel city

and from the beebBam: Said to be the largest mud-brick structure in the world

#30

The Mullahs are so pathetic.

Aren't the Iranian people ultimately responsible for their government? Ultimately?

From VOA yesturday:

The Iranian government has set up a crisis center about 200 kilometers north of Bam, and is conducting a major rescue effort. Five helicopters, two C-130 transport planes and crews from the Red Crescent aid organization have been dispatched to the area.

Five helicopters and two C-130 transport planes for 80,000 people? Great start IRI.

If they don't want any help from Israel it means they do not need any help. Nobody should send them a cent nor a dog.
I will protest any help sent by the USA.
If iranians are fascist even in front of death and quakes, let them die.
Hope next quake damages their nuclear plants and spreads radiations all over their shit country.

#15 here is the link to the thread: [Link: www.usmessageboard.com...]

Some good forums here.

I guess Iran is counting on all that money from Muslim charities to be flowing in. After all, if Muslim charities can give thousands of dollars to the families of suicide bombers, how much more will they give to the unfortunate victims of an earthquake?

#19 -
US is the Great Satan.
Israel is the arch foe.
Followers of Mohammad are Mo foes.

#34 re: DU's comments:

Earthquake weapons? Somebody's been playing too much of that strategy game "Command and Conquer."

Sorry about the earthquake.

#16 brianstein
Thanks for the link further detailing the mess that is Saudi Arabia.

Fuck 'em.

They can all burn.

OT I am wondering again about the airplane crash in Benin. 15 UN "peacekeepers" were aboard the plane. Was it overloaded or was it done on purpose?

#36 b

Yes, I agree. However, the demographics have changed quite a bit since the revolution and I think there is a powder-keg in the works and this unfortunate event may be the spark. I predict that death toll will be well over 40,000 and there will many who got out alive and froze or bleed to death as a result of the mullahs incompetence.

Camel Prophet on another thread mentioned the roll of Chernobyl in killing communism and how this quake may have a similar roll. I hope this will be the beginning of the end for the mullahs. Nevertheless, it is ultimately up to the Iranians.

Whatever then. I am sure Iran would kill 100 million more of their own to destroy the Zionist entity. F em

www.nicejewishboy.net

Iran is getting on my bad side. When the US Consulate was bombed in Kenya, the Israelis were one of the first on the scene. They have experience with "rubble" and they are the closest humanity. (You don't see other muslim nations beating the door down to help Iran.)

To echo what others have said, why turn down Israel's hand-outs and accept the US' hand-outs.

Up until a few years ago I had compassion for most people ... today I say, let the arabs help the arabs. THe rest of the world has other problems enough.

OT but reading some of the boards on the DU is like staring at a particularly bizarre accident. What caught my attention was that they find ArabNews a 'credible source' and this article about Saddam has them in an excited tizzy:

Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, now being grilled by American investigators, has reportedly warned US authorities that he will expose Washington’s “political games” and its behind-the-scene role in the occupation of Kuwait.

“Saddam threatened that if they continue to pressure him he will reveal startling facts — about America’s political games with his country — that would shock the whole world,” Al-Watan Arabic daily quoted a high-level European source as saying.

According to the European source close to US investigators, Saddam also said that he would ask the International Court of Justice in The Hague to try the United States for its crimes against the Iraqi people for allegedly using internationally prohibited weapons against the Iraqis during the last two wars against his country.

“If the Americans want to try me in a court of law, they should also try high-ranking international officials,” the source quoted the former Iraqi dictator as saying. Saddam has insisted that his statements are recorded verbatim, the paper said.

The DU-moonbats are salivating over Saddam's 'get evil Bush in the dock' statements"

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

anyone trying to question Saddam's credibility or reminding the DUer's of his savagery is shouted down or booted from the board.

Bam.

What an appropriate name for a city where 20,000 die in an earthquake.

"According to the European source close to US investigators"

There are European sources close to US
investigators???

" Saddam also said that he would ask the International Court of Justice in The Hague to try the United States for its crimes against the Iraqi people"

Fine. Right after we finish trying Saddam for
crimes against the Iraqi people. (And I don't notice
that the Arab press ever concerned itself
with _those_ crimes. . . )

#45 Shifra, "Was it overloaded or was it done on purpose?"

I would imagine it crashed due to gross incompetence on the part of the pilots, or maintenance crew.

This is a Third World Airline (Ask yourself, would I fly on Air Benin? NO!) The pilots are probably relatives of the president's second cousin etc, etc.

A 727 is an extremly difficult aircraft to fly. There is very little in the way of computerized flight assistance and if you are not 100% on the ball, it will bite you.

Israel did a lot to help Turkey after its big earthquake in 1999. I recall Iran rejecting Israeli aid after their last big quake in the north of the country. It takes an unbelievble amount of hatred to do what Iran's government is doing. Just another case of the Islamic world doing its utmost to make sure the hatred of Israel stays strong. Sickening. Twisted. Evil.

#21 Jerry

AJWS is just another leftist Jewish organization which prefers to help the enemies of Jews rather than actual Jews in need.

Organizations they support include the International Red Crescent, which opposes inclusion of the Red Mogen David in the International Red Cross (and whose ambulances are often used to ferry terrorists and explosives in the territories).

If you're in the mood to help those in need Magen David Adom is a much more worthwhile organization.

Very sad that regular people have to suffer for the hatred and irrationality of their government. I hope that the Iranian people will soon rise up and put an end to this theocratic dictatorship. But no revolt will be successful unless the army and security thugs, who are under the control of the mullahs, decide to stand aside and let the chips fall instead of unleashing a bloodbath.

And please note that it's still "The Red Cross and Red Crescent" - no mention of the Red Star of David. The IRC has still not recognized the Israeli organization.

I agree that Jews should not contribute one cent towards Iranian relief when Iran is working hard to acquire nukes which it has already said it will use on Israel. There are plenty of needy people in Israel.

As for Saddam, let him say whatever he likes. I'm sure that we took all of that into consideration before we decided to invade Iraq.

#41 Steve Hall

US is the Great Satan. Israel is the arch foe.
Followers of Mohammad are Mo foes.

LOL!

I am still wondering how close the nuclear facilities are to the epicenter of the earthquake.

All that needs doing now, is for some one to pick up that stray thread and start unraveling the mullahs hold on Iran. :)

#27 scaramouche

I don't know why they will accept money from American Jews. I sent an e-mail to AJWS asking the same question. Frankly, I don't expect an answer. If, as someone wrote earlier, they are a typical American Left-Wing organization which helps any enemy of Israel, I am not surprised at anything they do.

If half of the victims were women and all of those women were virgins, Allah just provided for 178 suicide bombers!

But seriously, even last month Israel saved the life of a newborn Iraqi girl who had a heart defect. They regularly save Palestinian children in medical crisis.

And now, even their condolences are being discounted?

Pooey!

#21 gerry

Excellent point gerry - I have sent the following e-mail to the head of this charity, former democratic hack politician Ruth Messinger (rmessinger@ajws.org)

"It has been reported that your wonderful organization is raising funds for earthquake relief in Iran. I would like to contribute this information - Iran has trillions of dollars in oil reserves and spends billions annually on developing nuclear weapons which it vows to use to annihilate what it refers to as the "zionist entity". In addition, Iran had publicly declared that it will refuse any aid offered by the Jewish state. It seem we have not reached the time when, it the words of Golda Meir, "the Muslims love their children more than they hate us."

There was recently another terror bombing in Tel Aviv: why not raise funds for the care of the wounded or the families of the dead? If I am not for myself, who will be for me?"

[Link: www.haaretzdaily.com...]

NC asked:

What was it Golda Meir said about when there will finally be peace in the Middle East?
--------------------------------

Something to the effect "When the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews."

It's no surprise the Iranian 'governing' mullahs are snubbing the Israelis, they want the whole world to be reassured of their assholedness.
They would indeed rather see the victims die before aid from Israel is allowed to touch them.
That would be catastrophic, as the Hand of G-d might touch them!

By the way, it's good to see you posting mommydoc.:)

AFP is amazing eh?

This points out that if we (or anyone else) ever needed to retaliate against Iran, they wouldn't need to actually bomb Iranian citys, we'd only have to blow, slightly and all the houses would collapse on their own.

God, these tin pot, uhm, theocracies are pathetic. What business does a country have picking fights and building nuclear weapons when it can't even build houses that stand up?

#36:

Yes, ultimately the Iranian people must take responsibility for their government. But at least there is some indication that that is actually happening. It's a long way from where it should be, of course, but clearly many Iranians are fed up with the mullahs and are no longer drinking the blame-everything-on-America-and-Israel kool aid. This is a sharp contrast with Arab countrires, where I do not know of a single historical instance of the people trying to take responsibility for their own welfare instead of constantly claiming "humiliation" by outside forces.

PS to #49 Teacake - Persians are not Arabs

#46

I think the demographic change you mention is wishful thinking.

The mullahs won't be gone without being forced out by a greater military force.

We can hope, hope, hope something good happens there.

All the while they're building WMDs and scheming how to deliver them.

It's iresponsible to not take them down. And if they actually are close to falling all the more reason to give them a push.

Ahhh, well …just let me say, uh with regards to…regarding that whole, uhhh upheaval in Iran today and yesterday, the people of Israel have to know, should know that their actions are going to uhhh, when you look at it from the perspective of the Arab street it can be cause for concern: great great concern.

The New York Times reported that "rescue teams began arriving with sniffer dogs and detection equipment. One dog team dug out 20 survivors, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported. The use of dogs, which are considered unclean by most Muslims, was a sticking point in rescue efforts in a 1990 earthquake that struck northwestern Iran, killing about 50,000 people."

Dogs, they will tolerate in emergency situations. Not Israelis though. Such wonderful people.

I wouldn’t help anyone that’s actively attempting to destroy me by putting a price on my head. Iran is a sponsor of terrorism and it must be assumed that the religious leadership there has supporters. Being compassionate is one thing but helping a nation that’s actively involved in attempting to destroy another is just plain stupid.

#68 Morgan... "Dogs, they will tolerate in emergency situations. Not Israelis though. Such wonderful people..."

The Iranians deserve better than this. My heart goes out to them.

#18 NC

Golda Meir said: ' There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us.' Which is quite appropriate in this particular case in Iran, isn't it?

By the way, I was reading a (as usual) interesting text by Bat Ye'or on the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims. Muslims assume it is normal to be helped by infidels, as this represents somehow a retribution for them tolerating the dhimmis. An equivalent of the jizya, more or less. On the other hand, they feel no moral obligation to do the same with non-Muslim countries, which after all, have no rights whatsoever, are populated by soon to be dominated/converted people, that is the worthless semislave subhumans characteristics of the dhimmi status.

Reflecting on this, I was struck by the fact that I don't remember of any Muslim countries rushing to help christian countries after major catastrophes, such as happened recently in South America.

It is horrifying, in a way, to realise that all the major studies by the best scholars of islam (Lewis, Ye'or etc....) confirm that Islam has not changed by an epsilon in a thousand years.

Any loss of life is horrible no matter what the regime...the people of Iran are not the ones that Hate the Jews...it is the Mullahs...and that regime that is screwed up....I think when word gets out to the local Iranian people hear that they TURNED DOWN ISRAEL'S offer to help...I think there will be some upheavel in that country....something on this kind of scale you would anybody's help....

but if you reject the help of ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED SOCIETIES on Earth...then there is a BIG PROBLEM...and the people will realize this.

I have Persian friends and when they heard that Israel offered to help...it really gave them a soft feeling inside...and when I told them that their government REFUSED to use Israel's help they freaked the FUCK OUT!!!

Mark my words here...this is the start of the regime's end...

People are not going to take this anymore...this bullshit.
Andrew B.

PS to #49 Teacake - Persians are not Arabs

Only while splitting hairs. Iran belongs to the arab league and is considered part of the arab world.

(in response to comment #69)

I….would caution your harshness-you against your harshness towards the persons in Iran who are, have been harnessed with a role they obviously did not ask for. Uhh, the ministry who is in charge is only, uhhh reacting to the underlying attitude put forth by the uhhh-the Bush-uhhh the Bush administration toward the populations of the muslim world that it is-it is indeed okay to unilaterally force our goodwill and our uhh our rescue resources on them and I think the message coming out uhhh out of Israel is uhhh that it is okay to do this: to just assume that they can just walk into Iran and uhhh expect to play a role in this effort without dire, dire consequences. I’m saddened……..saddened (blinks away a tear until the camera shuts off)

OT, but I see somebody sent EUnich President Prodi a belated Christmas present: a parcel bomb:

"A parcel bomb arrived at his home. Prodi opened it himself, carefully. It exploded, making a big flame. He was not hurt and there was no damage," Marco Vignudelli told Reuters by telephone.

Surprisingly, the Jews are not being blamed for this one. They suspect the anarchists, which sounds right to me. Leave it to a bunch of doped up leftists to make a lame-ass bomb. The Islamonuts know how to do bombs - it's the only accomplishment they can claim.

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

#19 scaramouche

America is still categorized as an "arc-foe" of Iran.

The United States, Iran's arch-foe for almost 25 years, was among the first to offer help.

"We stand ready to help the people of Iran," said President Bush.

I don't think the term arch-foe is an inacurate description. It's a sine of the compassion and humanity of Israelis and Americans that we still send help in a time of crisis.

California: 6-8 dead
Iran: over 20,000 dead

Not that the mud brick houses had nothing to do with it, but the population density at the epicenter also played a significant role.

What does Israel expect from some medieval savages, enlightenment? It aint worth it!

To go on with this idea, never forget that most Muslims will never show any gratitude for the help they get from us (after all, they represent themselves, that is the Umma, as being superior to us).
You won't have to think for long to find various examples of their delicious gratitude towrds the West.

Being French, I've realised that years ago. France has accommodated so many immigrants, asians, jews, poles, portugueses, italians... No problem whithin 2 generations. We have had millions of Muslims immigrating to France, fleeing their shitty underdevelopped dictatorial countries. As soon as they arrive, they take everything for granted, assume that help will flow from every direction and complain when things don't turn out at their advantage. Instead of rejoicing of the freedom of speech, the French unique social security benefits and so on...

Living in France makes you understand why things are so terribly bad in Arab countries. Most of them EXPECT things to happen, but they of course won't bother to ameliorate them by themselves. Divine intervention maybe? Hence the following reaction: their resent deeply their own failures and try to put the blame on others.

As far as I'm concerned if you can afford the expense of a nuclear weapons program you should be expected to have the capability to rescue you own citizens after a natural disaster. Have they no pride? What happened to their hyperactive Muslim sense of shame?
Regards.
Timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Rumour currently circulating in Iran: the mullahs are to blame.

[Link: www.daneshjoo.org...]

#72

the people of Iran are not the ones that Hate the Jews...it is the Mullahs

Well, is that true? The Iranian you are likely to meet in the West are refugees , usually well read and quite wealthy, who hate the current regime and Islamic dictatorship in general. Not the general Iranian people.

Believe me they do hate Israel, and probably also the Jews (this from a discussion with an Iranian friend of mine, who told me to be not so delusional about the people in Iran). Antisemitism is so terribly present in Muslim countries.

This kind of earthquake happens all the time if you miscalculate the angle of alignment of your prayer rug.

Teacake -

You are wrong, of course (about Iran being in the Arab League). Here it is from the horse's ass, I mean mouth:

[Link: www.arableagueonline.org...]

Persians have long (like for thousands of years) been at odds with Arabs. Remember the bloody Iran-Iraq war? That was recent, and took place even though Iran was already controlled by the crackpot mullahs/Islamists.

You are making an ignorant oversimplification - Iran is in the Middle East and run by bunch of crazy Islamists, so it must be Arab. In fact, there is a lot of history of Persians/Iranians being allied with Jews/Israel, probably in the venerated Mideast tradition of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Hopefully Iran will return to its senses and the current regime will be seen as an aberration.

Andrew B (#72)

...the people of Iran are not the ones that Hate the Jews...

Why would they be different from the rest of the world?

Dogs they'll tolerate help from but not the Jews.

People have the government they deserve.

And probably many persons on this board are too young to remember the demonstrations of millions and millions of fanatics, women in first line, dressed with their death symbol of black scarves, that created the regime in Iran.

Not a cent to help today's nazis.
We should even stop buying their oil and let them go down into their ignorance and stupidity.

Blue-eyed devil and David:

The Muslim sense of "shame," or "honor", is a very peculiar one. Why do you think Saudi Arabia has so many guest workers from Africa and Asia doing scut work even though the unemployment rate is so high? Because it's beneath the Saudis to do manual labor. That also explains why Arabs arrive in France and lose no time taking advantage of France's generous welfare benefits and social services. It's not shameful to be an able-bodied person leeching off the welfare system, but it is shameful to earn an honest buck - or euro - driving a garbage truck or waiting tables. After all, aren't those jobs meant for dhimmis ?

[Link: www.haaretzdaily.com...]

This kind of thing, isolating Jews and Israel, has been going on now for about??? let me say..20 years or more. It has SENT A MESSAGE to Countries and Businesses and even Non Profits..ie "dont send us any people that are Jewish" if at all possible....This is in News, in Government, in Sales, all over. It also applies in Entertainment...and Sports. If possible..DONT choose a Jew to STAR in your Movies..or we wont show them and it will affect your bottom line.. DONT put a Jewish gymnast on your team if possible..choose the OTHER girl.

Few years ago..Israeli Gymnasts were spit on..by an Arab Team. No one said anything about it.

Imagine..even in a Tragedy..Iran spurns Israels Dog Search Teams..one of the most successful Dog Search teams in the World. Any one know the name of the Blonde Israeli Girl and HER Dog. It seems she does very well in these situations? She happens to be pretty..she happens to be effective..and the Media makes SURE you dont see her pics and dont hear about her..Arab investors in their Cos..wouldnt like it.. ....So she is invisible.

ONE of the things that happened in the run up to WW2..was that Jews were increasingly ISOLATED and MOST people in Europe and quite a few in America KNEW all about it..Discussed it with their Diplomatic "friends" at parties and other social gathering. Discussed it under the radar at Official Events. ARE we going to let this happen again? We have so far!!!!! Its been growing and growing..the OK to Exclude Jews.... Im gonna scream about it..We need to DO something about this.

The mullahs are not even original in rejected help that might save lives -- if it comes from Israel.

When there was a massive terrorist bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut, Israel immediately offered the use of hospitals in Israel for the wounded men -- who could be flown to them within minutes, and get the best treatment.

Caspar Weinberger, was then Secretary of Defense -- a man of whom a close associate said "He has a visceral hatred of Israel". Weinberger refused to let the wounded marines be rushed to Israel, and insisted that they be flown to hospitals in Germany.

Some of the men died during the flight.

It cannot be said for certain that they might have been saved with quicker treatment -- but it can be said that Weinberger denied them the chance that might have saved their lives, because of his own loathing for Israel.

A US Secretary of Defense with the heart of a Mullah.

hershel:

It is a mistake to equate "Iranians" with "Persians." Persians are/were Zoroastrian, there is no such thing as a Persian Muslim, many muslims claim to be Persian but it is only to stake a claim on the achievements Persians. Islam came to Iran with the Arab invaders who slaughtered or drove out most of the Persians. More Persians live in India now than in Iran. It was the Persians (again Zoroastrians) who have a long history of friendship with the Jews.

BTW - Guess who the Mullahs use on the streets of Iran to enforce their rule... give up? "Palestinians"

Egyptian paper slams Arafat over J'lem attack on FM

In words addressed to Arafat, Saada said: "Your excellency, the sole spokesman of the Palestinian people, we are fed up with your repetition that any Palestinian act against Egypt, or any Palestinian act - verbal or physical - against an Egyptian official, should be blamed on a trivial, small and banned group."

The editorial went on to recall several occasions when Arafat's policies have been directly opposed to those of Egypt, such as after the country signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979.

Saada said that after Egyptian President Anwar Sadat was assassinated in 1981, "his excellency the Palestinian president was the first among those who rejoiced, clapped and danced."

Of course they had to take a swipe at Israel.

"We also condemn Israel's position because it did not protect the minister," Sorour told parliament Saturday.

Never mind that he was taken care of by Israeli doctors and escorted back to Egypt by Israeli doctors. Ungrateful pigs. G-d forbid they should ever acknowledge the goodness of the Jews.

Mockingbird: Boy do I remember THAT situation. Weinberger made SURE that no Military Personnel who were wounded were taken care of in Israeli Hospitals by the Israeli Drs.. (guess Jewish Drs..arent any good) This is a prime example of what I just posted about..the Isolation of Jews and Israel. They do that to please the Arab World. I wonder IF anyone DID DIE that didnt need to die..IF they had been taken care of by Israelis right away???

SHAME on the Americans that let Weinberger and others like him get away with this. It became a TEMPLATE on how to interact with Israel ..in this and othere matters..ie..Isolate..keep arms length....Just like before..just like in the 30s.

More things change...............

Bigel: Heres how I feel..Jews werent born with a TARGET plastered on their backs. Weve shown to all Countries what good and contributing citizens we are. We shown our acceptance of others..and our desire to live our lives and let others live theirs. We havent resided in Countries for sometimes 1000 years and then decided to TAKE parts of these Countries over for your own. (like the world of Islam has)

STILL many will not let go of the hatred. It seems many are bound and determined to slowly or in a oopsie...(Iran or Syria or whoever...sets off some kind of bomb)to make us EXTINCT.

Well...NOT THIS TIME...We may go...but we are NOT going alone. Never Again..meant just THAT. Its important that people realize this..Weve already lost OUR QUTOA of people...and thats..THAT!!!!

Personally...Im sick and tired of THEIR Hate.

Leah (#94)

Personally...Im sick and tired of THEIR Hate.

I'm sick of it too. Why can't they just live and let live, it's disgusting. Their hatred makes them ugly and poisons their lives.

Zulu: I dont remember exactly when it was..but one day..I woke up and was just SICK and TIRED of it already....I have no more excuses for it.

What did I just hear a couple days ago? Too many are dead..too much blood and it is PRIMARILY the fault of Jews and their behavior. SICK SICK SICK of it.

WHO is taking this old crap on..The old crap that no matter what the reality IS...it IS the fault of the JEWS.

HAD IT....

It's also important to note that this is receiving little mention in the press. Imagine for a minute that Israel (or any Jew for that matter) would refuse a Muslim hand held out in friendship. The editorial writers of the NY Times, Washington Post and LA Times would be foaming at the mouth in condemnation. But today, silence. The sad fact is that the dominent view among the thinking classes of America (professors, reporters, writers) is that Israeli intransigence is the source of the turmoil in the Middle East and all contrary evidence is ignored or downplayed.

Bigel: Hate to say it..but IF the Western Democracies with their vast NUMBERS of people to match the vast numbers in Islam DONT stop Islam and make it clear that they will not tolerate the destruction of Israel...then Israel will HAVE TO take care of herself..and ALL of us..around the world.

Wanna hear something odd..At the age of about 11...I thought to myself..SELF....It isnt the end of the Holocaust..just a PAUSE..It WILL start again in another way...Unfortunately...what I thought and even knew as a child is coming true. Damn....thats why I wont shut up about this and refuse to be a Dhimmini to ANYONE. Im gonna yell and scream till Im not on this earth anymore., I promised myself and I promised those dead in the Holocaust I would and here I am ...screamin..DO something America..cause its right..and cause you are NEXT if you dont.

I remember the Weinberger incident. IIRC, the French
(of all people) let some of their wounded be taken
to hospital burn units in Israel, which were only
about 20 minutes away. Some of the US wounded
(I presume those more lightly wounded) had to wait
up to 13 hours before getting to US hospitals in Germany.
(I wouldn't want to wait 13 hours to get a broken
arm set, let alone a wound caused by a bomb. . . but then again, I guess we have to please the Saudis. . . )

Leah (#97)

I'm having a bad day too. I am sick from this. The Iranian government are behaving like real filth. I agree that the Jews are somewhat responsible but I do not place all the blame on them. What can we do about the fact that the Muslims, today's Nazis, hate us? We hold out a hand in friendship in their time of need and they slap it away. Fuck them, let them rot.

Morgan (#98)

I was watching Fox News for a little bit, I thought they'd mention it ... Nothing. And read the link that Dom posted.

#76 Janice

Not that the mud brick houses had nothing to do with it, but the population density at the epicenter also played a significant role.

Mud brick building had EVERYTHING to do with the death toll. Mud bricks literally turned to dust from the shaking.

Recent California earthquakes:

Loma Prieta: Oct. 17, 1989 -- magnitude 7.1, deaths: 63
Landers: June 28, 1992 -- magnitude 7.4, deaths: 1
Big Bear City: June 28, 1992 -- magnitude 6.7, deaths: 0
Northridge: Jan. 17, 1994 -- magnitude 6.7, deaths: 51
Paso Robles: Dec. 22, 2003 -- magnitude 6.5, deaths: 2

The Iranian earthquake has been rated at about magnitude 6.5

The San Fransisco/San Jose area and the San Fernando Valley have population densities at least as high as Bam, which is an oasis town in the middle of the desert.

Leah --
About Weinberger -- some people who knew him thought the problem was his name. He was so terrified that he might be taken for Jewish.

But in principle, I have to agree with you.
So many comentators seem puzzled why the US administration does not treat Israel as "an ally against terror" -- and why it wants to weaken Israel by supported the terrorist PLO.

I would suggest that the administration does not want to seem to be "on the same side as the Jews". It is under the delusion that it can "win the hearts and minds" of Islamic countries -- and imagines it can do that by taking some kicks at Israel and weeping for "the poor humiliated Palestinians"

It reminds me of World War II when the US government would not do anything that might help the Jews trapped in Europe because it did not want to seem to be "fighting for the Jews".

US warplanes regularly overflew Auschwitz on the way to nearby industrial targets, but were forbidden to drop bombs on the gas chambers or on the railroad lines bringing in the victims.

Genocide against the Jews never figured in the Nurenberg Trials.

Seahawk: Ill NEVER forget that incident..It was a "Alarm Bell Ringing" situation for me. It said.: Little Jew Girl......things have really changed with America and Israel. Status of Israel as an ally..CHANGED....

Heres something else that was low key..under the radar..hardly anyone noticed..Last Spring? A State Dept. Official at a State Dept. News Conference stated that Israel WAS..and *****WASNT an Ally of the US..And no one asked if this was a SHIFT in Policy for the US. It IS a SHIFT in Policy.

When someone finally gets around to asking what the deal is with that.....the answer will be..."OH..thats OLD NEWS"... Didnt you know that the relationship between Israel and the US has changed?

Sheesh, that wasn't CLOSE to being on topic anymore, was it?

Seahawk --

IIRC it was NOT just the more lightly wounded.
Even the men most grievously injured were not taken to Israel.

And some of them died on the planes to Germany.

Thank you, LEAH:

Its important that people realize this..Weve already lost OUR QUOTA of people...and thats..THAT!!!!

No truer words ever spoken my friend. I am not Jewish, yet to realize how crucial the defense of Israel is, now and for as long as civilized human beings crave freedom, I believe is paramount.

Islamofascists, dhimmis and outright nazis do not deserve civil treatment. We Jews and Christians' willingness and ability(s) to come to the aid and comfort of people we KNOW will spit at us because of our ancestry set a premier example for all of human behavior.

EFC!

p.s.-Hey! Mullah Ech!$#@%#$df! Need any help repairing any recently damaged oil equipment? I hear the French work cheap nowadays.

I was checking on the CBC website for info on a different story when I found this on the earthquake "Iran appealed for international help and promised to waive visas for foreign relief workers to help aid efforts in the city of Bam, 1,000 kilometres south of Tehran. " It goes on to say how Canada and the US were responing. Odd no mention of the offer for help from the JOOOOOOWS.
Man I hate the fact my taxs go to pay for CBC. Love their classical music station hate the politics.

Have a good one

Mockingbird..Its the SAME as WW2. Nothings changed.

There was a time not all that long ago where AMERICA didn't put up with the phony claims of the Pals..where America was NOT ashamed to be FRIENDS with Israel..the fellow and only Democracy in the Middle East. Its changed now..and everyone knows it..and unfortunately Israel is where it KNEW it might be..The one that MUST take care of ITSELF in the end.

Scroll forward another 20 years..another 20 years of Islamic and Arab corruption of Europe and America..and what will the situation be then. IF I am thinking about this..and can predict what will happen..based on what has already happened...then the leaders of Israel can too.

We are in THIS situation NOW..If Islamists bang into the Twin TOwers..Its the Jooooooosss fault. If they succeed in banging into the Vatican..its the Jooooossss fault..If they bang into Las Vagas.....its the Jooooooosss fault..Well....this this CRAP is going on now you can just imagine..what could be the outcome of this Propaganda.

This happened during the thrities...NO one said ANYTHING..Its happening again..and AGAIN people that matter aren't saying anything....More things change....more they stay the same.

The ONLY way to get the message across to the World is for America to institute the Mutual Defense Pact..it PROMISED Israel. Either ...you know what...or get off the pot already. Israel needs to positively know where they stand..and so do Jews around the world.

I just checked CNN and found no mention of the refusal of aid. The media should be showing people the type of governments we are facing.

#109, Leah

Haven't the Jews, in Israel and everywhere else, had enough time and experience to learn where they stand? Isn't a huge segment of Jewish history nothing BUT a lesson in teaching Jews where they stand? (Or, perhaps, where they thought they stood?)
Why do Jews, and others sympathetic to their situation, insist on ignoring history?
If they persist, they ought to change "Never again" to "Never again, at least not right away."

Israel Responsible for Excess Iranian Quake Deaths:

Clearly, more Iranians will die because of Israel's policies. If Israel had been more forthcoming on the palestinian issue, the mullahs would have been able to accept Israeli aid, and fewer Iranians would have died.

/Reuters/Al Jizzeera Analysis

Observer: Tell you the truth..I knew where Israel and JEWS stood when Weinberger did that little thing..and NO one said anything. I got it..and people that matter in Israel also get it. We arent that stupid...

There is a level of animosity that Israel has to determine that is unsafe for her..When it gets there...then....Israel must act...Sorry...All this for a totally bogus claim for people who already have 23 or more countries with resources of their own.

You need to ask the question..Why is Sadaam gone..and why is Arafat still here? and WHO made it possible?

What can I say but:

The captain of a Syrian airliner announces, "This is Syrian Airliner 174 announcing we have lost an engine and want to land at any airport in the mid-east OTHER than Israel."

No answer.

A short while later he announces, "This is Syrian Airliner 174 again. We have lost TWO engines and ask permission to land at any airport in the mid-East OTHER than Israel."

No answer from anyone.

A while later the pilot announces, "This is Syrian Airliner 174. We are in need of help. We have lost three engines and need permission to land at any airport in the mid-East OTHER than Israel."

Still no answer from anyone.

Finally, the Captain calls, "Help! This is SyrianAirliner 174, we have only one engine left and it is rapidly failing. Unless we can land we are going to crash. We need permission to land at ANY airport in the Mid-East, INCLUDING Israel."

Shortly thereafter, a voice is heard in the Syrian airplane cockpit: "This is Tel Aviv airport calling Syrian Airliner 174. We would like to help."

"God bless you," said the Syrian pilot, what should we do?"

Responded Tel Aviv airport, "Repeat after me: Yitgadal, v'yitkadash ..." [Jewish prayer for the dead]

Hmmm...

Strange connection - some 6000 Jooos didn't show up for work in Barn that day. Left town for a Channukah celebration. Now we know who caused that 'quake - the Jooos.

Signed,

Mullah Abdulah

lewis...LOLOLOL...I knew that joke...but loved hearing it again....

#115 Bubbaman,

That book would be a best seller in France, you know.

#111, and for Leah, Bigel, etc

JPFO

Jews with guns...gotta love it!

Re: #12: Isn't that a bit over the top? What about the billions sent over the years to Israel from Jewish Americans? Israel wouldn't exist without the help of Jewish Americans. You've obviously never been on the receving end of UJA phone call: those guys don't take no for an answer!

Nothing makes me prouder as a Jew than seeing Jews rise above politics to offer humanitarian aid to an enemy people that no doubt would not do the same if the shoe were on the other foot. Furthermore, nothing so perfectly illustrates the moral bankruptcy of the Islamic world today than the refusal of the Iranians to accept that aid.

@116 Leah

As a nation, a people and a religion the Jews should by now know they are in this world, and not of this world.
Israel will have to defend herself against the hostility of the world.
Why in the world otherwise would a nation on the other side of the world claim and blame Israel for catastrophic events she has absolutely no link to?

You are as a whole the canary in the mine. And once the canary has been poisoned, whose going to be next?
Nobody is paying attention.

You keep screaming. I have been driving everyone I know crazy with the information that I gain from places like this. I join my voice with yours.

Could have been AISH that I saw it said - G-d created the world. He gave the Jewish people the land of Israel and everyone else got the rest. Put that way it makes the way of this world seem all the more petty.

#113, Leah

The question has (not too often, sadly) been asked--but knowing WHO made and still makes possible the endless war, open and secret, against the Jews is one thing. Another : the imagination and means to combat it. Exposing is not enough; the world does not care.
I divide "the world" (as I've known it since escaping from Austria in the late 1930s) into three groups: 1-Those who hate Jews and enjoy harming them or seeing them harmed; 2-Those who just want the whole "Jewish thing" to go away; 3-Menschen.
Many American media types have charted out a category of their own, between # 1 and 2-- all for the sake of their "story." As some Germans, they weren't fiercely anti-Semitic until it was fashionable and profitable to be so.

U.S. Tourist Dead in Iran Quake

At least one American tourist was killed and another seriously injured in the earthquake that claimed tens of thousands of lives in Iran, the State Department said on Saturday.

The injured American has been hospitalized in Tehran, State Department spokesman Lou Fintor said.

"The injuries are serious but do not appear to be life threatening," Fintor told reporters traveling with President Bush to his ranch in Texas.

The Swiss Embassy is aiding the American in the absence of U.S. diplomatic ties with Iran. Relatives of the two Americans have been notified, but the State Department has not received permission to release their names.

"We welcome assistance from all countries except Israel," Alavi said.

They can't accept aid from Israel because Israel has no business existing. It would be, in their eyes, like having their way with a unicorn....instead of the usual goat.

Well then let 'em fuck themselves.

Save the Merkava

Sorry to go off topic…the mighty Merkava is a risk of getting written out of the budget by the Sharon Government for economic reasons. This would be a tragedy! There has to be a way to continue this program that is so essential to Israel’s security. Read the article, this is very important.

Am I the only one who thinks that Libya is up to something with their sudden openness concerning nuclear weapons?

Libya's foreign minister has said his country will cooperate with the United Nation's nuclear watchdog agency, in an effort to urge other nations - particularly Israel - to dispose of atomic weapons.

I'm waiting for the truth to come out about what the real agenda is and I suspect it's the Arabs trying to manipulate Israel - for a change.

#122

Gee, you must really be old.

127   b  #122 Gee, you must really be old.

Gee, you must have a pea for a brain.

@122 observer

You have indeed observed the making of history in Europe, the ME and in America.

You are right the world does not care. It's only when its in their own backyard that it has any meaning or value.
That is the nature of man, really.

And since G-d did give that one small bit of land to the Hebrews, the rest of the world has yearned and lusted after it just because they can't possess it for any length of time. They want it all. It's called greed.

Mabe it was an underground tested, nuclear experiment and Iran geologists cant read a mip-map.Never test your nukes on a fault line.

*sarcasm off*

#127, b

But feisty and vigorous. I was a toddler when my parents crossed it into Switzerland a few months after the Anschluss.
Old, but still running (down to 5ks from Marathons), reading, writing and watching history trying to repeat itself.

@128 Teacake

"127 b #122 Gee, you must really be old.
Gee, you must have a pea for a brain. "

*LMAO

That was sort of rude wasn't it.

#128

He claims to have escaped in the late 1930's and acts like he remembers it. So let's say he was fifteen.

So that puts him at 79.

Gee, I believe a 79 year old with an axe to grind is surfing the web on the saturday after christmas.

Yep, my brain's a pea...

#115 and #117

Apropos of Jews not showing up, as at the WTC, the odd thing is that if you look at the list of victims, only a very few have Moslem names (even counting many of the Indians). That strikes me as strange, because there were many IT companies in those buildings and Moslems are overrepresented in that field relative to their numbers in the U.S. population. Of course, that assumes that none of the Jewish and Irish names are Moslem. I counted the list and of the 2900 or so, I counted about 15 Moslems. Where were the rest?

Zulubaby, the truth about any of this ME crap will never come out. You should know that by now. ANd I do agree it seems mighty fishy.

b (#127)

Gee, you must really be old.

Gee, but you're bloody rude.

b
Back off of observer - you are being offensive.

observer (#122)

Where are your stories? I want to read them.

my 90 yr old father is smarter than b

No women will be rescued from the rubble unless their hijabs are firmly in place on their heads.

/Any old mullah

Teacake (#135)

The truth will come out years down the line.

Observer could mop the floor with b, and then whup his ass for not getting up in the corners.

Leah (and sympathizers),
you say you're "sick & tired". And angry. And you're not gonna take it anymore.
GOOD! Hold on to that. Clutch it to your bosom & grow it!
I'm sick & tired, too. But what nauseates me most is not the Arab/Muslim hate. They're just acting out their learned impulses. They are to Jews as Foxes are to chickens. Don't blame the predator; blame the farmer who won't repair the lock on the henhouse.

I'm sick unto death of the Leftists who are giving away Israel, dunam by dunam, outpost by outpost. They are the ones for whom I reserve my most bitter bile.
Be angry! But channel your righteous rage & will to live AS A JEW, where it will do the most good. Against the enemies of Israel who are in control of Israel.
Will-I, nil-I, Israel will, sooner or later, have to defend herself by herself. She will either stand & defy her enemies & hypocrite "allies" on her own or suffer the results of her own timorous forelock tugging & groveling.
As a good beginning, I strongly recommend you buy & read "Jewish Statesmanship" byProf. Paul Eidelberg.
Read about it here.
He's a prolific author so Google his name & learn more.

b (#133)

Yep, my brain's a pea...

What brain?

Piss off.

#133, b

Well, you are a pea-brain all right. I was not 15, but almost 4, and yes, I remember a great deal of what refugees from Hitler experienced and how the world, including Switzerland, treated them. I was going to suggest you read up on the subject, but thought better of it. It's easier being snide or smart-alecky when you're ignorant.

Ploome, my cat is smarter than b and that's a fact.

You guys are hopeless.

There is nothing too incredulous to you people, if it's whiney and sypathetic to Israel.

Why is Saddam gone? Because the US military got him at the behest of the US people. That's why.

Why is arafat not gone? You figure it out.

You guy really crack me up. In a pathetic, sickly way.

#73 Teacake sez:

Iran belongs to the arab league and is considered part of the arab world.

??

Arab League membership

OAPEC membership

Muslim world, yes.

Arab world, NAFAIK.

Incidentally, the Arab League website is a trip. Click on the Arab Issues link, and you get a few points on the Arab Israeli conflict. Specifically, three points: Palestine, the Golan, and Lebanon. Obviously, these are not Arab issues, but Israeli issues. Apparently there are no Arab issues.

Even better:

#145

I don't believe you.

b
You are an attention-seeking idiot. Help yourself to a steaming-hot cup of STFU.

@133 b

It sounds like you're just looking for target to grind your axe against.

As a poster, observer has been posting for quite sometime and I suspect lurks even more. :)
There is no reason for you to jump in the middle of another poster who is evidently on our side.

I would love for observer to tell us more about pre WWII. I have a justified interest, as my mother endured the bombing of London during WWII, and my father served in the military in the european and pacific theatres. Ghee, that makes me pretty durned old!

So what, b? Nobody gives a shit.

quark2-I don't believe you :-P

#148 My second mis-fact this year... sue me, try me in the international court.

b,
You know you're right. Observer probably is "old".
I guess that, by you, I'm old, too.
You, on the other hand, are demonstrably young.
As in callow, wet behind the ears & arrogantly rude.
Not all old people get smarts along with their grey hairs but I'm willing to bet your allowance that observer has a lot to say that might help you overcome your state of ignorance if you'd be willing to harness your hubris & STFU & STFD & listen.
Observer, talk to us, please.
I'll damn sure listen!

Golly, quark2, you must be pushin' 40 ;-)

b, you're a moron. Ask Geepers about his 72 year old dad, who still runs in and places in competitive road races, skis daily all winter and could probably kick anyone's ass here on skis. My almost 73 year old mother's sharp as a tack, ballroom dances almost every night (and has better stamina than I) clearly remembers the Holocaust and being taken by her mother to the HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society) in the late 30's, frantically searching for word of her family left behind in Russia-Poland.

This blog attracts thinking people of all ages. And, obviously quite a few clueless wonders. Thanks for the demonstration.

#138, zulubaby

I haven't written about that. I wrote academic books, and now I'm working on a book about an American university for the "general public." Sorry to be so vague.
The German-Swiss were very cold, occasionally brutal, to Jewish refugees, and yet there were for me quite a number of exceptions--teachers, kids in my classes, the nuns who taught me in Kindergarten. On the whole--indifference, apathy, and that old "they must have done so much to get those cultured, Goethe-reading Germans into such a rage."
Sound familiar? Read the Washington Post and substitute Palestinians" for "Germans." (And skip the culture part.)

Hey, I'm just saying...

A 68 year old surfing the net, blogging on a saturday.

Get fucking real.

You guys need to rework your script.

Oh yeah, running 5K's, with 'memories' of the refugees. What year did they leave exactly? If it wasn't 1939 that complicates things a wee tad.

I'm not trying to pick on anybody,
I'm just LMFAO!

Charles,
b is, by every indicator I know of, a snotgurgle.
Your services are needed to spray the area ASAP.

#122 ONSERVER

In a sense, you are correct. The world doesn't really care. But I can't help feeling that, on the one hand, it doesn't care FOR Jews and Israel but on the other hand, the world seems CONSUMED with caring about what Jews and Israel ARE UP TO.

Consider the UN's perpetual attention to Israel, as expressed in it's innumerable resolutions aimed right at the throat of that country.

Remember the World's tacit glee surrounding the 1973 Yom Kipper War when Israel was losing..... but it's paranoid insistence that the war END the second that Israel turned things around? Everyone all of a sudden stuck their collective noses into Israel's business and cared about little else until the war was over.

And when Palestinian beasts committ mass murder in Israel, the World is silent.....until Israel responds to the carnage. Then the World cares all too much......with curses, accusations, vitriol and hate aimed not at the Palestinian terrorist bastard perpetrators but at Israel herself.

Israel (and Jews) can do without so much caring.

observer, pardon me if you already know, but the deadline to apply to one of the compensation funds for Austrian or formerly Austrian victims, or their children, of National Socialists is the 31st of December. Here's a link.

b- you don't believe him because you don't have anything worth remembering. I've never gone though anything as nightmarish as observer and yet I still have quite a lot of memories as early as one year old.

Yeah b, only young people use the internet.

numbnuts.

observer (#158)

I haven't written about that.

Why not!? I hate to think of all the stories that we'll never get to hear.

Sound familiar? Read the Washington Post and substitute Palestinians" for "Germans."

My blood just ran cold. The Muslims are truly today's Nazis, just less organized, so far.

Have you heard of Solly Ganor?

Talk about showing your ass in front of the world!
To you 68 is "old"?!
I'm 66, my wife is 65. We own & operate a very profitable small business. We are both active participants on the internet. I surf & participate on LGF regularly. My wife makes more money on eBay, on even a slow day, than you probably get from your DaDa in a month.

Young sir, you have a lot to learn &, sadly, your behavior here this evening does not make me confident that you ever will.

b, been eating Canadian beef?
I know more than a few amazingly vigorous octogenarians, and one septagenarian. Gentlemen with sharp memories and wits that can talk dogs off a meat wagon.
I hope, in your old age, that your life isn't as limited as you insist others' must be; maybe then you'll wonder at the folly of your youth. Your conduct is unbecoming. Drop it and apologize, or if you haven't the grace, then just shut up.

b deserves one of these.

JOEY - that should be a preface to observer's book. (Even though I don't know what s/he writes.

This reminds me of the girl's school fire in Saudi NoLabia, where the Religious Police told the girls they couldn't leave w/out covering themselves. Many girls died. It was a horrible tragedy compounded by evil.

#166 You and your wife rock. I know people in their 70s who are very computer savvy.

#165 Zulubaby.
"Why not!? I hate to think of all the stories that we'll never get to hear."
I second that.
I can't get enough of hearing about the "Jewish experience" in Pre-WWII europe.
So many stories have been lost already, entire lives forgotten as though they never were, and all of us are diminished thereby.
The only time I really got ticked off at an Israeli friend was when he casually dismissed my love of stories about "the Old Ones" and my fondness for Klezmer.
"Not important" he said; "That was then this is now."
They lived. Their lives should matter to us "youngsters".

JOEY (#161)

Yes, we're the "chosen people" and I wish they'd chose someone else for a change. Every tiny little thing is reported on when it comes to Israel. On the day that Saddam was captured I remarked to my friend that it was strange to look at the news (on the Internet) and not see Israel headlined every other link. It was the only day that it was like that and it lasted less than 24 hours. Then they were right back to scrutinizing what Israel ate for breakfast.

Baldy-my interior monologue, for your pleasure:

#170 Baldy 12/27/2003 03:14PM PST
This reminds me of the girl's school fire in Saudi NoLabia, where the Religious Police told the girls they couldn't leave w/out covering themselves. Many girls died. It was a horrible tragedy compounded by evil.

WTF is Baldy on about?

*scrolls up, reads original story*

Oh, he's on topic!

;-)
Btw, "NoLabia"-LOL! Brilliant.

Zaide (#172)

My grandparents were all from Lithuania but the only one that I knew really well was my father's mother. My bobba used to tell me stories all the time, which I just loved but she'd cry every time. I think she was homesick her whole life.

Zulubaby--I don't know if I could go back and dig around in so many painful areas, geographically and emotionally. Others have done it, and very well--Peter Gay (who changed his name from "Froehlich") is one among quite a few.

b---for the last time. We escaped to Switzerland in October of 1938. I was almost 4. From 1938-47 I saw, met, heard from refugees, and then right after the war, watched camp survivors arrive on trains, or my uncle, on foot.
You know nothing of this. But worse, you don't want to know.
Engaging with those opposed to your views or sympathies can be illuminating-if they are informed or thoughtful. You are neither.

#157, mommydoc
The HIAS on 425 Lafayette Street was my first residence in the USA! Roaming around Union Square, exploring NYC, talking to people on the Subway, these were my first great lessons in "breathing free."

@153 evariste

Yeah, I am. :)
I turned 57 last November.
I got an uncle who'se 74, lives in Salisbury and lived through the bombings as well. I can tell you, he could whip a young whippersnapper like b.

@156 andrew

I wish I were pushing at 40! *lol

I guess in b's situation all of history and life started when he was 'conceived'. Couldn't possibly be anyone around who is old and can manage to find their way onto the internet.

Zaide, I'm reading about the proposed cancellation of the Merkava; luckily I just did a quick Google News search and found out that Shaul Mofaz said the program will continue on the 24th; nonetheless the article is interesting, although you may have already seen it. Save the Merkava.

#173 Zulubaby,
Yes, we're the "chosen people" and I wish they'd chose someone else for a change.

Kain ein horeh! Ptoo Ptoo!
"They didn't choose you; HE did.
Care for a waklng nightmare? Try imagining a world sans Yehudim.
I understand the "Next time, choose somebody else, please." feelings but the reason you were called out was to provide a beacon of light in a world darkened by pride, greed, envy, lust and every other form of perverse self-destructive urge that humans are so fond of.
"They"'ve been trying to extinguish that light on the hill for millenia.
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, lady!

observer (#176)

I don't know if I could go back and dig around in so many painful areas, geographically and emotionally.

I understand. I used to make my bobba tell me stories all the time and she did, but I know it was painful for her, and she was never in a camp. She was a young girl when her family shipped her off to South Africa and I'm not sure she ever really got used to it. I know she missed her parents terribly.

You have my unending respect.

Evariste's Zaide

You go guy! :)

quark2, Zaide-a bizarre conceit b has, isn't it? Only the young can possibly be smart enough to type words in boxes and move a wheeled plastic wand around and click its buttons!
I mean, the internet's just basically a really advanced book, as far as the mental capacity required to use it goes. I wonder if b even knows his way around a command line, or can read code? Gosh.
One unfortunate aspect of the internet is that it makes people's autistic and antisocial tendencies more readily come to the fore.

Zaide, you're the best :-)

Blah blah blah, bigel.

#178 Evariste
Nothing Sharon & Co. do surprises me, anymore.
What I can't, for the life of me, figure out is why, if they're so keen to disassemble Israel. don't they just get the F*** out & go live in some Old European Socialist State where they won't have to deal with all those "black hat, religious zealots" & other "Right Wing Jewish extremists" who just want to live in a Jewish State.

Everyone: Have to go back to take notes on who said what. All ----RIGHT ON tho.

One I remember: Zulu: You know I think this Lybia thing is somehow Not Kosher. I get this...what I call Alarm Bell Ringing...and when that happens..I pay Attench. Been in this issue Politically for 27 or so years...and maybe my mind remembers patterns that I dont even know it remembers. I am right..say...about 90% of the time. What I THINK? may be going on ...turns out IS going on or something rather close to it.

Something is NOT right about Lybia..What? I dont know..involving who? I dont know...Take a while and see what develops...

Observer and Quark: I was a child..got taken to what my parents THOUGHT was a little kids movie..and on comes the News? Remember when they had News Reels in the Movies? So guess what pops up..The OVENS and the Bodies..and the bastards that put them there..I sat there with my mouth open and hands on each side of my head.. AGAST....I promised THEN to try to speak up IF this would start to happen again. I AM screaming..and WILL continue to do so.

Whats going on now is OUT of View and Under the Radar of MOST AMERICAN CITIZENS...They wouldnt approve of it and would not want whats going on. I can only hope to be one little teeny voice that will wake up one person who can talk to one other person and so on till whats really going on gets to an American Citizen that MATTERS...by matters I mean: a Citizen that can DO something about this.

Kvetching and yelling is ONE thing..but DOING something is another. I hope one of these days to reach someone..who can reach someone...and so on who can DO..what I cant do.

MY fellow American Citizens dont know what WE know..They are busy providing for their children and taking care of their parents...But IF they knew...I dont think they would agree with the likes of Baker, Weinberger, and Rove...and Norquist and that crowd. You all know who is also in that crowd. They also dont agree with Jackson, and Farrakan, and Jim Moran and Lee and ......tons of those bastards. This is across BOTH parties people..

To keep all of us safe..and it is all of us ultimately...we have do whatever.....we can. This is one of the things I think might be helpful. Never know. G-d works thru lots of us..Chas..and Zulu..amd Observer..and ALL the rest of us.

B...you get away with ONE..with me..Start up again..and Ill unload on you bigtime. I dont that kind of crap and neither does Teacake..

Not accept my Jewish help...

I say "let the mother fuckers rot and die under their stone-aged construction methods".

Amen

#184 Zulubaby
"Zaide, you're the best :-)"

Believe this...you give me way too much credit.

Years ago, I recognized my inability to rid myself of an unfocused anger. It was killing me. In desperation, I prayed God to teach me how to love without expecting something in return.
He introduced me to His Beloved Israel.

Be careful what you pray for...Love can make you hurt.

Zaide-OT-I watched a special on either Discovery or Hitlery Channel on Jesus' life on Christmas day; I thought it was pretty good. But I started getting this weird feeling -- they used the technique of showing shots of excavated ruins, computer visualizations, and footage of modern Israel to show what life must have looked like; it seemed like whenever they were talking about the brutality and tyranny of Rome and her centurions the image onscreen would be of Israeli soldiers looking arrogant in the midst of Palestinian villagers bustling about. Maybe I was looking for things.

#183, bigel

I don't think 2 billion people "live to see the completion of Hitler's work." They live to get richer or thinner or to get laid more often. But if Hitler's work IS completed, they don't give a shit. If it doesn't touch them at home or in their pocketbooks, history is far away and for pointy-headed intellectuals or boring documentaries. Just as bad for those on whom "the work" is done, the Jews. Agreed.
But you see no way out short of your Strangelovian ending?
Remember the final line of that movie--"Mein Fuehrer, I can walk."
But there's no exit. For my and all of our grandchildren, I hope you're wrong.

@187 Leah

I am a christian [and fundalmentalist at that], and all of my life I have been taught, read, and conveyed through oratory methods of the especialness of the Jews. My father did not go into any of the german held countries other than France, so he did not see the death camps. But, he did have the duty of removing hundreds of the dead after battles were done. He came home and told me and my sister, to never forget. And he was prescient, in that he called forth what we are living through now. I am not sure he would be happy to be here now.
You know that G-d does lay his hands on a few chosen, and they are lead to cry in the wilderness. That is what you are doing, but you are not alone. Some almighty things are about to happen that will leave us all breathless, full of hope and some full of despair, and swept off of our feet emotionally.

#190 Evariste
"Maybe I was looking for things."

I certainly hope so!
You were looking for a "spin" & you saw it.
Others watched & didn't see it and, as a result, probably were propagandized without ever realizing it.

My vote for Best Anti-Christian And Anti-Jewish Propaganda in a Weekly Series is Law & Order.

My wife used to enjoy it until I kibitzed the subliminal scenes & portrayals for her until she could spot them unaided.

Bigel..I KNOW some people give LESS than a damn. But Bigel...sometimes ONE person can make a diff..Ya never know..... All of us may ultimately inform ONE person that can make a diff.

Heres an example: I think MEMRI has made a HUGE difference. When our fellow citizens zeroed into this issue they were able to go to MEMRI and able to Read for Themselves what was actually said in the ME by what they'd been told were our Allies. Thats been extraordinarily helpful.

Jews with Guns: Yep..its S T U P I D for Jews to be the ONLY people NOT Gunned UP. Everyone else IS or enough of everyone else is... Didn't we learn our lesson in the 30s? Get out..buy a Gun..REGISTER IT...Learn to use it..and PUT IT AWAY..and hope you made a fool of yourself and got all exited over nothing. You can always turn it in..or sell it later. Dont be stupid...people..Time to grow up and learn OTHER people want you DEAD. Theres just about enough of that old hatred there..in case you missed it...I don't think you can miss it anymore actually.

Zaide-

I certainly hope so!

Brought a smile to my face.
Wow, that's interesting about Law & Order. I've never seen it but my impression was always that it was a rather bourgeois show. I mean that in a good way, bourgeois as in, in favor of the kind of society we live in. (Sharing the characteristically Commie disdain for the bourgeoisie is the first step towards the killing fields, IMO). So it's mildly surprising to me to find out that they have an agenda beyond dramatic excellence. I guess nothing of the sort is all that surprising to me any more, though.

#191 Observer
"They live to get richer or thinner or to get laid more often. But if Hitler's work IS completed, they don't give a shit. If it doesn't touch them at home or in their pocketbooks, history is far away and for pointy-headed intellectuals or boring documentaries."

True, that!
They recuse themselves when important subjects are brought up for discussion & claim to be too busy working & raising kids to stay informed about "all that stuff".
Funny, though, they know all the ball scores for last weekend's games. And they have time for a few brewskis at the club, and the soccer matches, and the soaps, ad nauseam.
I used to wonder how it was that Scripture refers so frequently to the "remnant". I don't wonder anymore.
I don't like it. But I don't wonder.

Quark2: Bless your Daddy for fighting for Liberty and Freedom. Bless my Daddy and Uncles and Cousins too..Bless everyone who stopped THAT version of Evil. (We got a doozie of a new Evil NOW)

I dont think My Dad could stand to see whats been doing on. It would break his sweet Jewish heart..and yes he was one of those sweet guys that thought..if you only could EDUCATE people all this would go away.

Quark..weve Educated..up the ying yang..and this Hate is STILL HERE.

Im not waiting for Devine Intervention..sorry...G-d put us here and gave us hearts and brains..and I think he wants us to USE the tools he gave us and live up to his expectations. Just MY take on this.

#195 Ev,
"So it's mildly surprising to me to find out that they have an agenda beyond dramatic excellence."

Their subtlety is what makes them so effective.
They are the Fantastic Flying Fantini high wire act to Michael Moore's slapstick buffoonery.

@195 evariste

Yep, it's the old socialist agenda. That's what most of what we call entertainment these days. Propaganda.

I'd druther watch the cd on Band of Brothers, than that cheap shot of lies and more lies any day. :)

#196, Zaide

I don't wonder either, but I do wonder if democracy, partcipatory democracy in which citizens are informed and active about the important issues, requires the small(er) scale on which it was conceived--the Athenian city state, or a similar model.
It worked well in the USA as long as there was a "dominant culture," but how it will continue in the fragmented, ill-informed society we've developed--about that I do wonder and worry.

#197 Leah,
"Im not waiting for Devine Intervention..sorry..."

We Bible Thumpin' Baccies have a saying for what you just said...
"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!". :~)
I intend to "Turn the other cheek", okay. So that I can fart in the general direction of Mecca.

#190 evariste

If the narrator of the show you saw was Avery Brooks (Sisko from DS9), then you were watching Discovery. I started to watch it, got the same impression you did and switched channels. Just so you don't think, "well, maybe we're both just loony," the show in question, Jesus: The Complete Story, is a BBC production.

And they were using Pali's as substitutes for the ancient Jews and their customs, etc.

LOL

Tasty Beverage-OMG! You are one righteous babe, you know that? That's exactly the one. Thanks for figuring it out!
The BBC! Of course! LOL (wryly).

Need I add, "those bastards! I knew it!"

#200 Observer
I think that most any form of government can be made to work for the benefit of mankind but only under ideal conditions.
Remember what Ben Franklin replied to the lady who asked him, as he was coming out of the hall after the Constitution had been written, "What have you wrought, Mr. Franklin?"?
His words (or close, anyway)...
"Madam, we have given you a Constitution. If you can keep it.".

It isn't governments that corrupt us; it's we who tend to corrupt ourselves & our governments.

Zaide-close! "A Republic, if you can keep it". Always one of my favorite quotes :-)

#204 Ev
""those bastards! I knew it!""

Dey evywhere! Dey evywhere!
LOL

#206 Ev
I knew that.

As much as you and I have talked about Republics? I knew you knew it! :-)

(OT) Just returned from a long walk here in NW Washington. Just a block from my home, near a key intersection was a parked white car with its engine running. The license plate started 'DHS'. The windows were smoked so I couldn't see in until I was right next to the vehicle. The guy looked like he was wearing a Border Patrol uniform. Dept of Homeland Security in action.

Leah (#187)

I get this...what I call Alarm Bell Ringing...and when that happens..I pay Attench.

Me too and I know you do. We won't find out the truth for a while yet.

As for the rest, we have to keep fighting. Today I'm tired and don't feel like fighting but we have to keep fighting. Keep screaming, lady!

Zaide, I love Law & Order! Is that true, what you say?

@197 Leah

You hit on right on target.

You remember the parable about the three men and the talents each were given? What happened to the one who buried his? To me that's what signifies the mentality of muslims, bury your treasures, your talents and your joys otherwise you'll be cursed. We were given the ultimate gift of love of life while we walk the surface of this planet He made for all of us.

Teacake said something similar about Law & Order a week or so ago and I disagreed with her. Maybe there's something I'm missing?

@216 bigel

I would say to you my friend, there is Hope. There is a light at the end of the long walk. Don't let despair take you down that miserable road, don't give up.

bigel, I don't know why you're trying to get me to argue with you, except perhaps to legitimize your own flatulent predictions by the contrast with the quality and quantity of the counterpoints that are offered to it. Well, suffice it to say, you still sound ridiculous no matter who it is you pick a fight with, and responding invariably brings down the quality level of the thread. It also drags me down to this stupid level yet again, which is a place I hate to be: nominally arguing with you, while actually wishing you would accept that you've made your point and shut the hell up about it. I'll post my half-hearted riposte one more time, sure. But I really wish you would realize not only the soul-numbing repetitiveness of this pointless dance, but also the way you look when you continue to quixotically ride your folliful hobbyhorse as if it is the Bucephalus of your rhetorical conquest of the argument space. Perhaps you're counting on wearing down the opposition until it expresses its dissent not at all, through sheer exhaustion of motivation. I assure you this is not the case. As for your suggestion that I pinch-hit for reaganite, it is entirely my pleasure to make sure that no one assumes that your genocidal views are mainstream, well-regarded, or unchallenged here, but I'm honored to be seen as a pinch hitter for reaganite.

Do you think that the Islamonazis won't nuke Israel?
Do you think that Israel won't massively retaliate?
Do you think that such a retaliation won't spread beyond the Middle East?
Where does my prediction go wrong?

I don't necessarily think the Islamonazis will ever successfully nuke Israel, no. And that's not discounting their desire to do so; it's just acknowledging our superior ability to intercept their communications, to shoot down their missiles, to preempt their attacks, to destroy their facilities, to take their toys away. Even if they were successfully to deliver a weapon to Israel (highly dubious), odds are it won't even detonate. You must think very highly of Islamic engineering; I don't.
Will Israel massively retaliate? Probably. Will it spread beyond the middle east? Well, if it was Pakistan that nuked Israel, then Pakistan will be the one to eat nukes back. But an entire continent, Europe or any other, that is not a nuclear belligerent, getting annihilated by Israel because Islamic fanatics attacked? Not going to happen. Your predictions I find not only inaccurate, but indicative of a querulous and disagreeable personality too. It seems you aren't so much predicting as you are wishing. Wish as hard as you want. It ain't gonna happen.

#215 Zulubaby
Next time you watch an epiosode, pay attention not only to the crime of the antagonist/s but also to his or her presumed identity. For example, the bad guy is a serial child molester. Nobody likes child molesters right? But, wait, the bad guy/child molester is also....whoa!...a preacherman. Who wears a rumpled white suit, carries a KJV Bible everywhere, says, "Praise the Lawd!" in a Southern accent every other sentence & justifies his lewd criminality by quoting from "The Good Book".
Or the youth counsellor who happens to have instigated a series of religiously/racially motivated murders also "happens" to be a "Right Wing Fanatic". Never a Lefty Maoist, mind you...they're always the victims.
I believe I remember one episode where the bad guy was a MOEL!
Pay closer attention & you'll see the clues.

Oh, and maybe Israel will destroy Mecca and Medina in retaliation for being nuked, besides annihilating whatever country it was that nuked it. I'll grant that much, Mecca and Medina are probably on the target list. They well should be. But Europe? GMAFB.

bigel-isn't a bit presumptuous for the faithful like quark2 to tell G-d to hurry it up with the Armageddon already? It would show as little faith and trust in the Christian deity's plan as you do in the Jewish deity's plan. Immanentizing the eschaton is a fool's errand.

BTW, you may find it interesting that the major group of people who are trying to immanentize the eschaton because they don't really trust their deity or have faith in his plan are called terrorists, and they want to destroy Israel and America.

bigel

Why is it impossible to posit another "prediction" preceding your own, namely that Israel prevents its nuking before it needs to retaliate against the whole ME?
Can't Israel buy itself ten years, and then maybe ten more through another strike? Why is such incremental prevention out of the question? Was that not the purpose, successfully achieved, through the destruction of Iraq's nuclear facility?
I don't question the motives or aim of the Islamonazis you describe. Why can they not be defeated, one battle or step at a time? Once individual wills (of countries, groups) are defeated, the collective will could diminish. It's worth a shot--before the final one puts this potentially lovely little planet with the dinosaurs.
Hard for me to believe I wrote this. I'm as gloomy, if not as bellicose, as bigel most of the time.

Rayra (#225)

No better or closer facilities within Iran? Pathetic.

Maybe none that would accomodate those filthy infidel Americans.

If you have to harp on an apocalypse, at least make it good, like Daniel's Son of Man apocalypse or the Book of Revelation or the Apocalypse of John. Yours is basically "get nuked, nuke, nuke, nuke, the end". Try for a little literary quality at least, plus some allusion and metaphors, some uncertainty, some incoherence, and some mystery, something meaty that the last few dozen Jews can argue about after it comes true.

#219 Bigel
It isn't my intent to speak for Quark 2, only for myself.
You say that Evangelical Christians "are looking for such a war".
You're way off the mark with your facts.
The Book of Revelation ( singular, not plural) does, indeed, include prophecies, one of which is a war to be fought in the Valley called Har Meggido. As a Bible believer I must, to be integral to my beliefs accept that prophecy. However, I don't "look forward" to that war any more than Noah looked forward to the flood, or than Abraham looked forward to the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah or than Moses, himself, looked forward to the future apostasies of Israel.
Rather, like Abraham haggling with God, most true Christians will do their darndest to prevent the cataclysm with deeds & with tearful supplications.
Whatever it takes!

@219 bigel

I will not super suppose myself quoting MY FATHER. Would you pick up a Bible, and turn to the New Testament, the Book of James and then Luke and the Revelations.
I base my faith on the Word that came and saved me long before my birth, and that of the prophecies.
I love my G-d, my Saviour and that love extends itself to the people of my Messiah and his homeland.
He gave us to commandments before leaving us. We are to love our neighbour as ourselves, and to Love G-d with all of our hearts, minds and souls. That's what it's always been about bigel. :)

I can't change the Word that was given to us, but I do not wish anguish, pain and suffering on anyone. For the arabs, their lot is most desolate and without any hope of joy, saving grace or everlasting peace.

Rayra, the article says that Americans can get visas through the Pakistani Embassy in Washington. I want to know whose permission they're waiting on to release the names.

There's another show that constantly has the message... don't be so quick to blame islam since its really the Jews... CSI? The Agency? One of those CIA special op shows. Every time they have an episode about a terrorist, turns out it was just a poor muslim victimized by racist suspicion and the massad was really the evil killers with plans to blow up Americans and innocent muslims. I'm also pretty sure that ultra liberal Jews helped with these scripts.

Evariste
I've finally decided what you have to be when you grow up!
A novelist!
Or at least a columnist.
Trenchant, hilariously logical, smasher of mirrors & blowawayer of smoke.
And the vocabulary! I'm turning a deep forest green, here!

Way OT
I don't mean to prostylize, but I am so appreciative of the moral support that I gain from LGFers. I have compassion and hope for all of us, especially for those in such deep depression as bigel.

You really need to have faith in your Creator bigel.
He's big enough to carry any load you throw at him.

I have deep deep sadness for all of those who are not blest as we are. I love all of y'all. :)

#226 Observer
"I'm as gloomy, if not as bellicose, as bigel most of the time."
A pretty common condition around here.
For most of us, though, it's temporary & usually shortlived. If we give up & succumb to the despair & the hate & the lust for insensate revenge..well, then, "they" will have won just as surely as if they've killed us.

quark2, love you too :-)

Fox is reporting that an American rescue team is enroute to Iran US Rescue Team, Doctors Deployed To Iran

No word in the article on the religious affiliations of the team members--do you think the Iranians asked?

BTW, this thread is cracking me up: Saudi NoLabia, Dr. BigelLove, and this
Only the young can possibly be smart enough to type words in boxes and move a wheeled plastic wand around and click its buttons! LOL!

But seriously, Algore invented the Internet, and he's past 50. Wait, he was fourteen when he invented it, I think...

Zaide, :-D
I was hoping my #222 & 223 would be joined be you and quark2 both. Both of you posted excellent rejoinders, I thought that the three of our posts combined, the atheist and the christians, were excellent cognates to each other. I enjoy your compliment, thanks!

@237 Evariste's Zaide

Amen brother!

& I've turned a bright pink, O forest green one! :-)

@240 evariste

Awwwwww...you're just a cutie. :)
I loved your repost about the usage of typing in boxes and waving plastic wands that have wheels. *lol

I wonder just exactly who - of any real value in disaster relief - will be safe helping them?

The Foreign Office has warned Britons not to travel to south-eastern Iran following the earthquake that has killed at least 40,000 people.

It updated its advice to travellers saying all British nationals not connected to the rescue mission should avoid the area until further notice.

• A Briton is missing in Iran after the massive earthquake that killed at least 40,000 people, officials said.

IRAN TRAVEL WARNING ISSUED

I could propose..Quark2..that those fighting back here..in this little place IS G-ds actual intervention. Chas. might be an aspect of G-ds intervention..his interest, his fire, leading to all of us posting here..then leading ultimately to someone just passing buy reading ONE or TWO of the posts...SomeONE person that can DO something.

I could say..that the MEMRI idea could also be one of G-ds intervention. (just in time, I might add) Whose to say many our ideas-when times are dangerous --aren't inspired by our loving G-d who wants us to LISTEN..Pay Attench....and get to work? Whoever set up MEMRI..got to work..and thank G-d for them. HE already gave us hands, brains, energy, survival instincts, along with everything else..we need to stop "nudging" HIM..and hunker down and USE what he gave us. Give him a break... I know this isn't traditional..but ....

-------

Zulu: What do you think those Alarm Bells are? I used to not pay much attention..then one day I looked back and decided MUCH of the time..I was RIGHT.

--------

Everyone..this is a whole huge subject..BUT ya need to watch carefully for images on the TV..not only in the News..but now most definitely on Dramas..IF you THINK? something doesn't feel right..that is it meant to push you somewhere you usually dont go...then YOU are probably RIGHT. Pay attench..to what you feel.

My friend and I just happened to notice the SCRIPTS of many of the shows on TV....that deal with Terrorism. Most of the time..the Arab is really INNOCENT...AND furthermore..it is the big bad Western Govnt that accused him without reason and with BIGOTRY. IF by chance the script calls for an Islamsist TO BE GUILTY..there is almost always a wonderful terrific HANDSOME Islamist that HELPS capture the bad Islamic Guy. Course many times...the Israelis in the script....are ugly, liars, arrogant, manipulators, and disdain America and Americans. Watch for this and other manipulations...and IF you dont think a steady diet of this can make a diff..you are WRONG. This whole subject is NOT fluffy superficial stuff..its PROGRAMMING of the American Pubic to accept Islam and to distrust and dislike Israelis and Jews.

Leah, what you call alarm bells I refer to as gut instinct and sometimes premonitions and I've had them my whole life. I sense things and I am seldom wrong.

About TV programming, I really don't watch much TV at all. I watch Fox News sometimes, far less than I used to, but I do love Law & Order and now between Teacake and Zaide, I'm going to be looking at that differently too :-)

What you say about one person making a difference ... Charles is that one person that has made a difference for all of us that post here (and those that just read and lurk too, of course.)

Amen to what you're saying, Leah & Zulubaby.
Maybe we're all just candles in God's hands & He used Charles to light the flames.
And what a lovely glow it is, too!

BTW, 586 reader's on line as I type this.

Leah/zulubaby

When I discovered Charles' website, at the beginning of the war on Iraq, I was so excited. Now that I have 'met' so many like minded folks I am very happy to know I am not crazy and I am not alone.

Leah, I have those kinds of feelings too. Everytime I've ignored them I have regretted it. All of the women on my mothers' side have second sight. It used to scare the bejeebers out of me, but I've finally realized it's latent and I have no control over it.

Charles' is a blessing, his focused determination to keep this website up and current is awesome.
We are building a fence of individual links that are separated by distance but growing in strength.

We are becoming ONE voice, and that certain someone who is slated to find us will read one day and make a real BIG difference.

Zaide (#247)

BTW, 586 reader's on line as I type this.

But only a few of us big-mouths hogging the bandwidth. LOL. Don't just lurk, all you lurkers!

Zulu: I trust my alarm bells now..let me tell ya. All the time.

With Lybia...(so what if I cant spell it) ...there is a TON that has been left out of the story here. What it is..how it pertains to our future in the ME...something..momentous....something......

Sometimes like you say you just have to listen and let it develop. Later on you can put the pieces together..see if it fits a PATTERN...or see if it is familiar behavior and ideas...

Hate to get you all aggravated Zulu..and you will be!!!!...Pay attench to images and language used in Non Fiction and Fiction TV. (on Fiction TV...look for the content and direction of the Story lines) There has been a CHANGE. BIG TIME.... Ive been watching for this for a long long time now. Also important to watch what BOOKS are published.. Who are chosen to be the Stars of Tomorrows Non Fiction AND Fiction areas. Look for where Movies are going...WHo will be the Stars. ...Content? Will they actually face whats been going on in the world? Will they be turning themselves inside out to BALANCE ..so called balance..the story?

THIS is vital..Course it is..ie the Regan Movie Flap....We who are interested in this issue..need to pay as much attench as they did..and have the same kind of outcome..Marginalize those bastards who are trying to "make up" history as it goes along. Marginalize those bastards who are presenting you with images to influence your brain..to the opposite of what is going on in reality. Dont put up with it.

quark2 (#248)

It is scary, especially when I was younger and didn't understand it. Every time something major has happened in my life I've known before, I get "that feeling" (my family knows what it means.) I now know that there is nothing that will take the feeling away, I just have to wait for the event.

Quark: My Mom also..but much more than I..or me..which is it?

Its a second sight..its a instinct...its cell memory? of some kind...We dont know yet..and It can be there..cause G-d put it there..He can if he wants..So..from now on...if it doesnt sound Kosher-if it doesnt feel right...look into it at least. Trust what is going on inside you. I am now. I cant believe how many times what I thought..or about what I thought was ABSOLUETLY right..just like Zulu.

Seriously...been in an issue long enough, lived the issue...have accumulated enough facts. about the issue and the history of the subject....thats what leads to the Bells going off. OR something like that.

Leah (#250)

Libya is so open about their nuclear weapons because they don't have any. It's a ruse by the Arab world to put pressure on Israel to give up the nuclear weapons that nobody knows for sure she has. It's a fishing expedition, they're scheming to get Israel to admit to having nuclear weapons, or not. They're too sly to be this open about anything.

I don't watch enough TV for it to impact me, and I seldom go to the movies. I don't have the patience to sit still in a dark room for two hours. Or maybe I have ADD. LOL.

b -- you snot-nosed whipper-snapper. I'll be 68 on Feb 23 and work as a programmer for embedded, real-time computer systems. I have had an internet account since 1975 (What? Al Gore wan't even in the Senate then, was he?) I have written and continue to write code using various internet protocols (IP) including both User Datagrams and stream (Transmission Control) Protocols.

If you take the trouble to start learning from others, you may actually grow up someday.

To zulubaby, quark2, etc. -- sorry to be coming in late to this.

@251 zulubaby

Yeppers, the first time for me was November 20,1963.

Two days before Kennedys' assassination. That was just two days before my 17th birthday. It took me a long while to get over the fear it caused in me.

watch this video: Israel's humanitarian rescue missions abroad

And now, for something completely different...
Go here .
Try to listen & watch for 10 seconds without smiling. I dare ya!

Quark2: Dont be scared of it..You inherited it...obviiously..Its there cause it was passed on..and it was always meant to be there. Thats all...Same with Zulu.,

I haven't got the exact same thing as my Mom..SHE was scarey,....LOLOLOL..Knew everything..Everyone knew my Mom was a "Witch"...so to speak..Not really..but you know what I mean. Of course she didn't have to pick up the phone to KNOW who was on the phone..Sheesh....

Ive got something ELSE going on. I dont know exactly how it works..but it does..most of the time.

@258 Dean Douthat

Well welcome aboard. I'm not sure what twisted b's britches in a wad, but he got pretty well socked by several of us. *lol

By the by your resume sounds pretty impressive. :)
In 1965 I was working in a HUGE mainframe room, pulling cards for a card punch reader.

Dean Douthat (#254)

Clobber him for all I care. He really annoyed me.

Zulu: Ah HAAAAA....L. doesnt HAVE any WMD. Its just a ruse to get the subject of ISRAEL and her Nukes..(if she has them..snicker snicker) into the public discourse..Then of course..Did L. do this all HERSELF? or did someone or some nation SET this whole thing UP? and get it going? Could be....Even handed..dontcha know...blah blah blah...We have to be EVEN...HANDED in the ME.

Quark..what happened two day before Jack got killed? Did you know anything? Feel anything? Ohhh if you did you are like my Mom...

Leah, Quark 2 & Zulubaby,
If I didn't know which side you ladies are on, I'd be tempted to hose down my CPU with Holy Water 'bout now.
"Bubble bubble, toil and trouble."
LOL

Zaide, LOL! I thought it was supposed to be bigel speaking, I mean fart sounds, until I read that it was a kazoo.

Leah, LOL! I'm a witch too, just like your mom. I know who's on the 'phone, I know when I'm going to see someone, I have had so many strange experiences in my life, you wouldn't believe!

Its very sad when humans politicize suffering and disaster.

Send Aid To Iranian Earthquake Victims - Here - National Iranian American Council

Dean Douthat
Remember RAMAC?
My wife was a keypunch operator on that monster in 1959.
The "machine" occupied the entire basement of a large building at Loring AFB. Klunky as all get out. She ordered 5 screws for B-52 elevators, the machine stuttered & Loring was asked why they wanted 5000 of the darn things.

Leah (again, I feel like I'm nagging you :-) I really don't think that Libya has WMD's. No way.

quark2, I don't remember a date or time when I had my first premonition but I was probably about 9 or 10 years old. I really don't like going into the details of my life on the web, but I knew something was wrong and I was, unfortunately, right about it. The funniest thing is that my mom, bobba and I used to travel between Johannesburg and Durban a lot when I was a baby and my mother said that my bobba was always nervous traveling with me because I would cry that the plane was falling for the entire duration of the flight, and then promptly fall asleep as we landed (what a joy I must have been!) My bobba was nervous because she was convinced that I "knew something" -- she had faith in me, even when I was two-years old ;-)

I'm still afraid of flying but that's another story altogether :-)

My friends will ask me about certain things because they know that I would "know" the outcome. If that makes any sense.

Zaide (#262)

If I didn't know which side you ladies are on, I'd be tempted to hose down my CPU with Holy Water 'bout now.

LOL! You probably should anyway, just in case ;-)

Charles, did you just remove a post requesting donations to some "Iranian-American" huggy-kissy site?
I perused the site & was about to post some of the garbage I found there.

johnx (#265)

Its very sad when humans politicize suffering and disaster.

Yes, it is. Tell it to the bastards of the Iranian government and see if they care. I'm not sure they qualify as humans though.

@258 Leah

I've finally resigned myself to it. It no longer scares me.
I know it's latent through my mother and my grandmother, it pops up when it's needed. I have tried very hard to never abuse it as it is a gift of G-d. There are those who use theirs to make money, and I don't agree with doing that, it's too carnivaleques taking away its true merit and value.

Quark and Zulu: You two are like my Mom. Its scarey to watch and to live with..LOLOLO

I dont know what the heck I am...some kind of other pre-cog knowledge. I dont know personal stuff..just Politcal stuff.. I just accept it now even tho it sounds odd as heck. Its there for some reason..and thats that.

I write horribly and many times dont get down what I mean to say...Sorry......Zulu..I was trying to write that I agree with you about that...You might just be right about Lybia. That they dont have WMD in the first place. Whats the whole rest of this story? tho...Theres lots more to this...wait..youll see..maybe five years down the line.

The Video on Israels Humanitarian Efforts was wondereful..The other one..LOLOLOLOLOLOL Too adorable..

@261 Leah

I was listening to the radio, they were talking about the presidents' visit to Texas. He was hated here you know.
I looked at my grandmother [father's mother] and said they are going to blow his head off in Dallas. I felt nothing, there wasn't any sensation, it just tumbled out of my mouth.

@262 Evariste's Zaide

*LOL!

You might better add some protection.

Seems like the three of us are finding 'things' in common!

Fascinating comments.

This whole Middle East situation seems to be shaping up to bring freedom to hear the gospel of truth to more people than even the breakup of the evil empire 14 years ago. That time many missionaries rushed in, and quite a number of people found eternal salvation.

How is it in the current situation? Does anyone know anything being done? It would sure be a shame and waste of blood and production to see these newly freed countries revert right back to what they were - but that seems to be where Afghanistan is heading with their new constitution.

Maybe Iran might reverse its decision not to allow Israel in. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not so much that they've definitely decided to ban Israel so much as want to think about whether to allow Israel in.

Some Iranian protestors say Long live Israel, Long live America. (From same place Scaramouche linked to), so I wouldn't view the Iranian government as being representative of the people.

Some may argue that the Iranian regime wouldn't return the favour. So what? Do the right thing because it's right, not because you'll get anything done in return.

Somewhat OT: Does anyone remember the Kursk submarine sinking? Russia said "No, we don't need any help" until it was too late. Plenty of unforgivably destructive arrogance outside of the middle east.

Please, don't forget that there is a big difference between the arab mullahs and the majority of the iranian people which are pro-american and pro-israel..

"Long Live Israel, Long Live America"
SMCCDI (Information Service)
Dec 27, 2003

The regime's plainclothes men and security agents have arrested in several cities, such as in Tehran and Esfahan, Iranians who angered by the situation had shouted publicly unprecedented slogans considered almost as a blasphemy by the ruling theocracy.

These unprecedented slogans were nothing else than "Long Live Israel !" and "Long Live America !" shouted during tens of popular Blood collect gatherings by Iranians welcoming the Israeli and American support of the quake's victims.

The popular anger has been boosted as the Islamic regime has banned any Israeli support of the quake's victims by rejecting this country's offer of aid. Many Iranians consider such rejection as another prove that the regime's leaders are more willing to let Iranians die by sacrifying them in order to keep their backwarded anti-Semite ideology.

Many also are cheering the US President for his constant support of Iranians and are qualifying the landing of US Aid planes as another "slap in the face of the regime".

[Link: www.daneshjoo.org...]

Stefania, we must be thinking on the same wavelength!

Quark2. People dont wanna talk about the hatred for Jack down there. Soon as he was dead..alot of that "chatter" about him, his father, the family, etc. stopped. Its sort of picking up again as the rest of the family misbehaves.

I remember being very frightened for him. But thats all it was. Werent people actually saying that they were out to take care of him or get rid of him? I seem to remember something along those lines.

Ms. Kennedy wouldn't take off her blood stained suit..saying ...something like: I want THEM to see what THEY did..to Jack...or to us or to the President...(best I can remember now).

There was alot of "THEY" that day, if you remember. The THEY was Conserv. People down there including Johnson.

What I think now..is that this might be the situation: Some people KNEW that whatshisface was out there with a gun wanting to kill Kennedy and purposely DIDNT do anything about it. I think thats how you can get rid of someone and not actually pull the trigger yourself ie pretend you dont know the person is in danger and hope for the "Best".

Rescue workers have managed to save the lives of more than 1,000 inhabitants of Bam, who had been buried under rubbles in historical city of Bam, which was rocked by a strong earthquake early Friday morning, IRNA reported.

The team of rescue workers from Iran and 21 other countries saved the victims using sniffer dogs and sophisticated electronic instruments.

Iran: 1,000 people buried under rubble rescued alive in Bam

so I wouldn't view the Iranian government as being representative of the people.

Andjam, What then is the definition of "government"?

Obviously there are many good-hearted Iranians just as there are in any country, but the majority, or at least the majority of those who have the capability of doing something about it, support the leaders. That's why they are the leaders.

It's really sad that so many of the people posting on this list are so hateful and racist. In keeping your hearts so closed, only allowing yourself to feel your own pain, and repeating hurtful jokes and comments aout Arabs, you are serving neither the interests of Israel nor Jews in general. The day you learn to see yourselves as powerful and responsible for the suffering committed by yourselves, your families, and elected leaders, you will help make Israel safe and worthy of respect. The hateful speech so many people have posted here really makes me sad -- for the people who write it, as much as anyone.

Jon, you are the racist, and if your goal is not to see jews murdered and Israel destroyed, then your are a useful idiot also. You show your racist attitude concerning arabs when you ignore or excuse their chants of "Palestine shall be free from the river to the sea." You show your racism towards arabs when you ignore their using their own children as human bombs, or make excuses for it. You are racist toward arabs when you hold jews and Israel in particular to a higher moral standard than Jews.

You show your contempt for arabs when you fail to denounce their "honor killings" and Female genital mutilation, things you would scream to high heaven about if done by jews or americans.

I assume you have been repeating the lies about how Rachel Corrie Died.

[Link: www.sicmuse.com...]

As noted above, Rafah, where Corrie was killed, is a hotbed for weapons smuggling and Israeli bulldozing of houses and structures was done as a preventive measure against this. According to Amir Segev-Sayag, a media officer for the Israeli consulate in San Francisco, stated that the bulldozer was in Rafah "as part of an effort to prevent terror-related activities". He also said that the bulldozer was attempting to remove shrubbery to expose these tunnels, not to raze a Palestinian house.19

At best, the actions of Corrie and other ISM members keep IDF soldiers occupied when they could be stopping suicide bombers. So they have blood on their hands. More likely, as when they had tea with the two bombers who were involved in the Mikes Cafe bombing, they have a far more active role in attempting to make Israel "judenfrei".

If you continue to spread lies about israel and jews, either out of ignorance or malice, then you are no better than the average hitler youth. FOAD.

By the way, I have been to the West Bank, and almost everything you think you know about it is a lie.

Why don't you go dig a well in Africa.