"Social justice"...what a loaded phrase. They forgot to describe her as a "progressive".

The Israeli police need to lose the key to her cell and pronto.

Wait a minute, she seems to be coming to her senses. Her current project involves:

training Israelis to teach one another about Palestinian human-rights abuses.

So she is also concerned about the way Palestinians abuse the human rights of other people (such as women and homosexuals).

What? That's not what they meant?

Oh, never mind!

Charles...Commentary too brilliant for the intellectual elite of Bezerkly. I am embarrassed to live in the Bay Area. At least I was one of the 18% in SF that voted for Arnold :)

I think we need to stop calling these Nazis "tools". Nazis like KKKate need to be treated like the war criminals they are.

Just drips with irony and humor.

She escorts women into abortion clinics, .. Escorts? conversation prolly went like: "hey babe, after you get rid of that extra baggage, why don't you and me roll over to tha Berkley Blue Room for drinks as it is clear you've just been raped, and need counciling asap"

She belongs to three international peace groups?!

Come ON!

I'm reminded of the comment that people who never miss a day of church are obviously overcompensating for something...

1. The activists have not received due process. By an Israeli law called "Beit Din Lemeeshmoret," arrestees who ask to appeal for a proper hearing are not allowed to be deported for three days.

2. The activists are peaceful people, arrested during a peaceful, nonviolent demonstration.

If you are calling about Kate, you can mention that she is Jewish, and that she has come from the US to work closely with Israelis in an educational project aimed at supporting Israelis in learning about life in tivihe Occupied Territories and establishing communication among Israelis about the situation. Her work is extremely valuable.

Donations for their legal funds are welcome.

To donate from the UK, send cheque or money order to:
IWPS
Valley Farmhouse
East Runton
Cromer, Norfolk. NR27 9PN

[Link: dc.indymedia.org...]

If these people said two plus two equalled four I'd double check it.

Poor Kate must have been bummed that she was too old to take advantage of the Birthrate Israel program.

Good. Maybe she'll become "cultured" and pick up Hebrew while in the slammer. Incidentally, you know the Israelis are treating her with kid gloves while in custody because as soon as she gets out, it's into the arms of Ashleigh Banfield.

Birthright Israel, that is. :O

Is there anyone out there working to garner enough evidence to have the ISM deemed a terrorist group? Or at the very least, enough evidence to have their organization shut down in the US? Do they supply funding for Hamas, etc? Something. Anything.

Maybe she escorts gay Palestinians into Israel.:)
[Link: www.jta.org...]

and that she has come from the US to work closely with Israelis in an educational project aimed at supporting Israelis in learning about life in tivihe Occupied Territories

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I think Israelis might know just a tad more about the subject matter than some self-rightous moron from the US.

Yes sir, I know you live a block from here but I've gone to Berkley, you see, so I'm going to teach you about life here in Israel and the OT. Yes sir, I know you have Palestinians who work for you but believe me, I studied this for like 3 weeks at Berkley so I'm sure I'm more of an expert on the subject than you are.

blech!

OT, but intriguing...
Rudy vs Hilary in 2006?

The word around New York is that our former mayor, Rudy Giuliani, has decided to challenge Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton when she seeks reelection in 2006 — a matchup we almost saw in 2002 before he withdrew for personal reasons. Giuliani won't confirm or deny it (as recently as Friday he told radio host Don Imus he hadn't made up his mind), but two well-placed GOP insiders say it's "basically a done deal."

Sorry to be anal, but shouldn't that be MP Gustav Fridolin (not PM, no matter how highly he esteems himself)?

44 years old and still hasn't grown up....or finished her college years.

Here’s photo of Kate: [Link: acluweb.best.vwh.net...]

"And now she fights for the rights of those who want to execute lesbians and gays by stoning."

Mind-boggling, isn't it? How can this be explained? How could anybody able to dress and feed herself possibly be so stupid?

Here is my feeble attempt to explain.

1) There is no objective right or wrong; all morality is situational and relative.

2) If your intention is good, your motives pure, then whatever you say or do is right. Conversely, if your motives are less than perfect, then whatever you say or do is wrong. And this is true even if what you say or do is identical in both cases.

OK, have we got these basic ideas? Fine, then we can move on with some derivations.

For Kate, her motives are pure because she works for peace and so her saying that homosexuality is moral and even good is correct.

For Arabs/Muslims, their motives are pure because they are "brown people" and so their saying that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin is correct.

There, you see? Wasn't that simple, after all?

#14 - great minds think alike! I posted something there to that effect before I read your comment.

“If it’s your job to investigate Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, then it’s your job to know that they don’t hang out with Jewish lesbians in San Francisco.”

Therefore the Jewish lesbian must go to them . . . .

PS Some of my best friends are Jewish lesbians, but they are smarter than this.

Since her high school days in Richmond, Va.

#4 Steven:

I am embarrassed to live in the Bay Area.

Sorry about that, but Richmond is glad to be rid of her. Whatever you do, don't send her back! :-p

Article:

...her involvement with the international grass-roots organization Women in Black....

Let me tell you this in closing
I know we might seem imposing
But trust me, if we ever show in your section
Believe me it’s for your own protection

#18 Nancy

No wonder nobody hassles her on the way into an abortion clinic.

They think she's the girls husband!

What an ugly broad!

#18 & #21

That's disturbing on several levels. As #21 pointed out, she obviously has no qualms about hanging with the splodeydopes. Also, bragging that some cocky lawyer got the FBI afraid of being "insensitive" in its investigation further proves you believe a jihadi's feelings are more important than American lives.

And she's Jewish? Oh, great, another Jew who loves her people about as much as Arafat loves them.

BS"D

This vile bint khanzeer, sharmuta kabeeran, is an apikoros. A traitor to her own people, (Jews). Much like her predecessors, the Kapos, she does anything possible to help the enemies of decent Jews. Not having even the bad excuse for collabaration used by the Kapos, namely survival-by-selling-out, she much like other of her filthy ilk in berserkely, namely michael lerner (y'mach sh'mo) who calls himself rabbi, while seeking any possible media event to exploit for his agenda of self-agrandisment, and destruction of both Israel, and the Jewish people., is nothing more than a necrotic cancer on the face of the earth. The sooner this variety of pathogen is excised from our societies, the better.

OT: Another show biz non-idiotarian - did you know that Jeff "Skunk" Baxter - guitarist for Steely Dan and the Doobie Bros. - is a defense analyst for the Pentagon?

"I deal with pretty much everything from the nature of the threat to the technologies and the BMCQ -- which is 'battle management command and control' -- to acquire, track, identify and create a firing solution to defeat that threat. I'm interested in both the doctrine and the theology of missile defense," he continued. "Since I don't really have a pony in the race, I can be pretty unbiased."

This is also OT but could be a headline:

The Pope isn't happy with the UN either. But for the opposite reasons than most of us.

Though he did not offer a detailed plan, the pontiff's words appeared to show he wanted the United Nations replaced in light of its failure to block the use of force by the United States in Iraq.

The Pope called last month for the reform of world institutions and deplored any failure to respect international law. But in a sermon during a Mass at St Peter's in Rome on Thursday he went much further, referring to the UN as if it were already a part of the past.

Still, it's pretty significant that he also thinks the UN's time is past.

Jeez, I know this woman. Well, not this particular woman, but women like her, who pingpong from "progressive" cause to "progressive" cause. I'm sure she marched for the Sandanistas and the homeless in the 80's, 'cause that was the thing to do. Then she went on to anti-globalization in the '90's. This is probably the first time in her life that protesting got her into trouble and she can't believe what hit her.

The militantly "progressive" women (can't talk about men, because for some reason I never ran into male LLL's who were actually activists) I knew in DC all, without exception, made a shambles of their personal and family lives. I'm not saying that's true of all activists or that only leftist activists mess up their lives, but certainly, it must be a relief to bury yourself in the cause du jour when your personal life is miserable. The LLL's I've known personally always struck me as terribly unhappy (and frequently humorless) people and reading DU and Indymedia comments seems to bear that out.

OT: 18 Schools in Thailand Burned (in Muslim-Majority area)

27 Yehudit:

Is there a correlation between a musician's instrument of choice and anti-idiotarianism? Theguitarists are looking pretty good these days:-)

Oh brother, do I know her type. This chic is a fading was-been who's 44 and is hoping that her frenetic activism and what looks she has left will get her a leg over with young blonde Friddie or someone like him, at least until he has to catch his plane back to wherever.
I've met a million of these chics starting in the 60's, right up till now. When they were young and beautiful and at Berkeley (as students) they were the envy of all the other girls. These were the ones who were so slim and had the long silky blonde hair and the flared jeans and were getting it off with their associate professor in literature or some subject. He was also involved in liberal activism and of course she went along. That was hundreds of men and several decades ago.

Now she's the associate professor, still has some looks (if you don't get too close) and the students she marches with think she's cool because she's 'involved' and used to be a legend (in her own mind, anyway!) and now they're on this big adventure and 'amounting to something and making a difference' and though the locals in Ramallah are beautiful (at least what you can see of them) the men are scary as hell and look like they'd slice your pecker off if they caught you with their women, so that only leaves the bucktoothed and overweight or dead plain janes in your ISM cell or this fading Lorilei.

Well, Lochinvar will be deported and she'll never see him again and he's only too grateful for that since she was getting a bit earnest and clingy anyway and she'll still be stuck in this cell when the weather heats up to 110 degrees F. at noon in another couple of months, waiting for her trial to come up.
That leaves getting back to Berkeley and a good bath and a soft mattress, if she can just survive until then and, please G*d, from now on I'm staying home and doing my demonstrating on the streets of San Francisco where I can go home afterwards and have a nice hot bath and a shag without all this hassle!

Sound about right?
:^)

At least they have mastered the “Islamist” double-speak. Kate is a member of QUIT and they have made a “public statement” against the PA for persecuting gays which I guess they rationalize negates their support for the persecutors they are condeming.

QUIT:
As queers, we are part of an international movement for human rights that encompasses the movement for Palestinian liberation, and all other liberation movements. We are also part of the growing international movement seeking active ways to express our solidarity with the people of Palestine.

Bay Area peace activist Kate Raphael ( A QUIT! member) and three other internationals were arrested yesterday in the West Bank village of Budrus

[Link: www.ektaonline.org...]

Statement of QUIT! on the Persecution of Gay Men by the Palestine National Authority
[Link: www.ektaonline.org...]

One of my listeners told me about this site, saying it was good. With points like Charles made on the moron from Berkeley, which cited how this chump is a tool of terrorists, I can see why he likes it.

I will tune in regularly.

Bob Newman
Co-Host, "Redmond & Newman" 630 KHOW, Denver

Sort of OT --but relating to a statement of QUIT --of which Kate is a member:

Since QUIT claims to support “liberation” movements everywhere –though apparently it doesn’t include Iraq –I wonder if they would be willing to support the “people of Syria” who according to this person “can’t wait for the US” to liberate them!

QUOTE: Some Syrians cant wait for America to invade

I spoke to a friend who has recently returned from Syria, where he says that almost all the Syrians he spoke to were hoping for America to invade Syria to rid them of the corrupt leadership of the Ba'ath party.

I appreciate it is only annecdotal evidence, but if this is the wish of the Syrian people, what should we as muslims do if the US wants to invade Syria?

[Link: forum.ymuk.net...]

Great to have you here, Bob Newman!

#34 Bob Newman,

Welcome aboard. You will find much here that will interest you, whatever your political inclinations.

Certainly, plenty of good grist for the radio program mill.

+Photi

Yehudit (#27),

Another show biz non-idiotarian - did you know that Jeff "Skunk" Baxter - guitarist for Steely Dan and the Doobie Bros.

I bet that will make kid charlemagne, née squidy, very happy.

It does me.

"who want to execute lesbians and gays by stoning."

Be careful on your phrasing, Charles. They don't want to execute lesbians and gays by stoning, they just do it!

Little quirk of the English language, I know, but it reveals a lot (about these people).

I'm wondering exactly how common these Adam Shapiro wanna-bes are in the Jewish community. I know it must vary widely depending on location (I naturally would expect a Berkeley Reform congregation to have more ISM sympathizers than, say, a Dallas Modern Orthodox one), but I'm wondering how many LGFers personally know, or know of, Jewish dopes like this. I truly hope their numbers are miniscule and that it's only their big mouths that make them seem like they're everywhere these days.

OT -- Mars update!

We made it! It was a tense wait beyond the time we expected to hear back for landing confirmation, but it came!

USA! USA! USA!

She helped found a group known as Community Protection Network, which helps provide “protection to people being targeted for hate violence.

Can I please have a drumroll for the 'Idiotarian of the Year - 2004.'

maybe not yet, but I would say keep a close eye on her.

Nancy,

Yes, Kate is a member of QUIT.

She's also a founding member of Citizens United (to) Nurture Terrorism. What's that an acronym for?

And Jeff S (#1) has got it right as well.

Being from the PNW, I know that "Social Justice" means "anybody can commit any crime he/she wants to up to and including rape, torture, and murder as long as it's against the "correct" people." - some examples are of course Mumia Jamaal and that gunman in NY who just wanted to mow down as many whiteys as possible on the train home.

Here's another loopy lefty term: "Economic Justice." This is code for communism. It means that anyone can goof off in school, get involved in gangs, crank out as many bastards as possible by the age of 12, and have zero marketable job skills, but should STILL earn as much as Bill Gates.

Stay tuned for "Political Justice" (translation: "Democrats should always win, no matter how many times dumbass mess up their votes - if they screw it up, they should be able to re-vote until the "correct" candidate wins")

Let me know if anyones need anything translated. I'm fluent in Maoist.

#41, Let's Roll:

Whew!

We made it through the Martian antimissile shield! :)

Congratulations, NASA!

(We may not be able to recreate the Wright Brothers' flight if the weather's bad, but we can by-damn land robots on Mars!)

OT for this thread, but I'm surprised no one's posted a link to this story: Germany Invited To 60th Anniversary Of D-Day.
Looks to me like another swipe at Great Britain and the US by Chirac, and I think we can all see where this will lead: "This marks the anniversary of not only the beginning of the liberation of France, but all of Europe, including Germany, from Nazism."
I guess it's only fair. For 60 years we've paid tribute to the 8 - 11K+ Americans, British, and Canadians who died fighting the Nazis. It's about time the handful of French who died in the fighting (if any) got some credit, not to mention the 4 - 9K Germans who fought and died so valiantly in defense of the Third Reich.

J.

Donna V. #40,

While I don't know one quite as whacky as this one, I do know a girl who believes that Israel should become a binational state. She converted and became a Reconstructionist Jew, so she's Jewish now. I haven't managed to get her fiancee to speak to me about his thoughts yet and I am curious as to whether it generally follows a religious Orthodoxy -> more support trend; anecdotally I tend to agree. My mother says that the Orthodox never stop visiting Israel, not during war, terrorism, or anything else because of the way that they feel.

#43 Cooper for President
got that one right, just another mindless left wing hypocrite. How come you never hear anyone on the left whine about the 1000's square miles of germany lost or the 10,000,000 ethnic Germans evicted out of their native countries after WWll?

Let's Roll -

I can't believe you fell for the Mars Lander scam. This is just another hoax perpetrated by the Bushies on the American people.

This is nothing more than a project paid for by Halliburton in order to exploit Mars for its oil! And you people are falling for it.

And, it's all a fake. There is no Mars landing, just like Bush's trip to Iraq was a fraud done on a Hollywood set.

But although it's a fake, it's still a quest for oil. But it's fake, but they're really going after Mars's oil for Halliburton.. Umm ummmm... (KABOOOM)!!!!

...I'm sorry, but my son's head just exploded all over the computer. Could one of you kind people come over and clean it up? I'm personally happy to be rid of him, but I need to pretend I actually care.

Thanks,
Idiotarian's mom

PS: Despite what the democraps say, America is a pretty damn good country, and I for one am happy to see this achievement on Mars. Now can NASA please just send Howard Dean there (with no oxygen tank)?
Toodles.

#44   Dar ul Harb

Yeah, huh? I'm so proud of our scientists-- just like our military: unequalled.

#48   Idiotarian

LOL!

#48
Reminds me how the Muslims were so offended when we landed on the moon, because the moon means so much to them. They are lunatics

#40 Donna V.:

I don't think there's room for more than one or two Adam Shapiros (he's a 'Star' don't you know) but there are plenty of weedy lesser lights willing to be spear carriers in the service of a cause--any cause--so long as it gains them acceptance and a degree of infamy. Remember that Shapiro clone we had posting on here a few times--(Abe Greenhouse?). Not up to Shapiro standards in the charisma department--not camera ready (if you know what I mean) but a useful idiot, for all that.

The Palestinians sent Shapiro on the college tour last Spring or maybe it was a year ago, after the first invasion by the IDF of Arafat's Ramullah digs. Remember Shapiro swanning past the IDF with his legion or merrymakers? Shortly after that Shapiro and wife went on tour through the US colleges, speaking and appearing at divestment rallies and recruiting for ISM. They probably got a fair number of bored, disaffected kids who saw Shapiro as hip and cool and the whole gig as a chance for a cool adventure in another country, away from the boring and familiar routine at home. With enough time after exams to head over to the West Bank for indoctrination training and then a month or two of activism--it's then back to campus in time for fall classes and they can dine out for the winter on their tales of derring-do against the IDF.

Any misgivings they might have about what they saw while they were there they will shunt to the back of their minds and they'll only tell their friends about the exciting stuff, the stuff in which they could star.

But someday, down the road, when they are established and have put their activism behind them, and are teaching at some graduate school or working in some government agency or law firm, they'll get a phone call or someone will be waiting on the front porch for them when they get home from work. A swarthy looking guy, vaguely familiar as being Palestinian, and their past may become blackmail against their present and they could very well be vulnerable to an attempt by Palestinian or Arab Islamic sympathizers needing a 'favour'. That's when some of the excesses of their youth may come back to haunt them and they could be a security risk, blackmailed by the past into doing something in the present for the 'Cause'. It's a real possibility.

There's not a lot of these kids but it only takes one working in a nuclear facility down the road some day to create a dangerous situation.

#51 Jakester

They were offended.....why? I thought most modern-day Muslims were unaware that Allah is the moon-god. Do you have some entertaining links?

The moon-landing was before my time, so I'm unfamiliar with what was in the papers/on tv back then.

Elisabeth and Donna,

Don't forget Stanley Cohen, perhaps the ultimate self-hating Jewish lawyer. He has defended the worst of the worst. It never ceases to amaze me when I see a Jewish lawyer doing pro-boner work for an admitted anti-Semitic terrorist (or a Muslim "woman of cover" standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a radical buzzcut bulldyke).

Although these groups would normally be mortal enemies, they are united in their hatred for America (and Bush).

Really really OT:
Pop singing superstar Britney Spears was married to childhood friend Jason Allen Alexander Saturday in Las Vegas
:-(

Cooper #54,

Shhh... It's all part of the IZC; Cohen actually works for the IZC as well - why do you think he loses all of his cases?

Right Wing -

Jason Alexander?

George Costanza from Seinfeld got Britney Spears? What's next - Kramer bangs Beyonce?

Cooper fro President (#54),

Although these groups would normally be mortal enemies, they are united in their hatred for America (and Bush).

Now you can't seriously expect me to believe that a lesbian has a hatred of Bush.

Oh, ... wait, never mind.

#53 Tasty Beverage

Here's one group of Muslims who thinks its great that we landed on the moon. Seems they think that when the astronauts brought back moon rocks, they "split the moon" and contributed to Quranic "prophecy" being fulfilled!

Sheesh, even Allah needs the Americans to get anything done.

#57 Cooper for President

You know what they say, women love a man with a sense of humor.

Hey

Eliza -LOL ROFLMAO yuk yuk yuk chuckle chuckle tee hee hee HA HA HA HA HA that is so funny !!!

Is there a correlation between a musician's instrument of choice and anti- idiotarianism?

Well, Henry Rollins is pretty sane and he just sings and recites poetry.

Ariel,

I'm laughing out loud (too good for a simple LOL). That was a good one.

Cohen has won a few, but I think his poor track record comes from deliberately representing people he KNOWS to be guilty. Most recently, his clients from the Portland Seven admitted their guilt in flying to China in an attempt to sneak into Assramistan and shoot American GIs. Being idiots (which seems to be the current trend for Islamo terrorists - as Engineer and others have pointed out) they failed, came back to America, and discussed attacking a Jewish school in Oregon.

After they were arrested and eventually admitted their guilt, Cohen simultaneously said that the charges against his clients were "trumped up," and that he let them plead guilty because he "couldn't win." Which begs the question: "If they were phony charges, why wouldn't a world class attorney like you get the charges dropped?"

It's like watching wrestling or a bad soap opera or something. Too good.

Now back to Britney talk!

she has conducted trainings on non-violence, escorted women into abortion clinics, counseled rape victims and fought for the rights of lesbians and gays.

And these things are compatible with fronting for the splodeydopes...er...why?

#59 Titus

That site is bizarre. They (as group, or what-not) reject the Sunnah as "made-up" stories. That puts them at odds with at least 95% of the Muslim world. But then, just when you think they're making progress, it all devolves into a strange obsession with numerology....

Although, they do like dogs (again, the 95% thing). That's got to count for something.

I'm wondering how many LGFers personally know, or know of, Jewish dopes like this

I know some. What gets me is the ones who are at least somewhat observant and caring about Judaism, but still tie themselves in knots trying to absorb the Leftist view on Israel. I don't know how they handle all that cognitive dissonance. They do say "yes BUT ..." a lot.

An example.

Gustav Fridolin, Rachel Corrie, Kate Raphael and all the self-styled "peace activists" who promote violence and terrorism instead of peace are pawns of a dirty, senile old man named Yasser Arafat. Rachel and Kate and their ilk are rootless, self-important airheads who can't think for themselves; their bodies and souls are at the service of demagogues and tyrants, of others' will to power. Rachel and Kate swell with pride when they get to indulge in their "activism" (childish mischief, sabotage, incitement) for the cause du jour. Their vanity and fathomless stupidity prevent them from realizing that while they thought that they were struggling for truth and justice, they were actually ensnared and made to play a role in the machinations of murderers and thieves.

OT:

The Nation of islam gets the hooks deeper into Wacko Jacko:

[Link: www.scotlandonsunday.com...]

OT -- MARS:

This is from the BBC World Service:

In the past, two out of three attempts to land spacecraft on the Red Planet have failed.

The European Space Agency is still searching for the missing British-built Beagle 2.

The probe was supposed to land on Mars on Christmas Day but has not yet sent back a signal to confirm it has arrived safely.

I bet that was written with teary eyes and gritted teeth!

NOT A SINGLE WORD about how Spirit pretty much landed right on target, how the engineers had to make a last minute compensation for a dust storm on the surface, or how despite a 4 story bounce, Spirit ended it's roll right side up.

Let the BBC and the ESA search for Beagle 2 --- IF they find it, it will look like a junkyard!

#9 - Contribute to their defense fund? LOL. I would instead lobby Israel to modify their laws so that foreign agitators could be deported immediately. Israel is a war zone, and the Israeli government shouldn't tolerate foreign troublemakers for a minute.

OT:

Wacko Jacko deep hooked by the Nation of islam:

[Link: www.scotlandonsunday.com...]

#53 Tastt Beverage, Back then nobody cared much about how the "arab street" felt. Mostly we (in the west) were celebrating. Big coup against the USSR and made up for the Spudnik black eye. Who is this Britney Spears and why are we interested in who she married?

Besides Shapiro and Greenhouse, other Jewish ISM tools include Laura Gordon, Ora Wise, and Raphael Cohen. Shapiro once claimed that 20% of ISM tools are Jewish. If the tool in question is Jewish, they're sure to make a big deal about it whenever they can.

#64 Tasty Beverage

Yeah, no joke. They're apparently the Mohammedan equivalent of those "Bible code" people.

#53 Tasty Beverage
Sorry no links, I don't think it was a major upheavel in the RoP. But it ruffled some of those trogs feathers.

#71 rabidfox

Back then nobody cared much about how the "arab street" felt.

LOL and today still nobody cares! O the humiliation!

I was just curious to know what "the perpetually outraged" were outraged about w/r/t the moon landing. I mean, it has to be funny.

Anyone?

#35 Nancy: I don't know much about the Syrians, but a lot of the Lebanese aren't too happy with the Syrian occupation of their country:
[Link: beirut.indymedia.org...]
[Link: beirut.indymedia.org...]

Interesting site re: Syria: [Link: 2la.org...]

I was just curious to know what "the perpetually outraged" were outraged about w/r/t the moon landing. I mean, it has to be funny.

They are very much angered that kaffir astronauts were playing golf on the bachelor pad of the moon god.

#70, Camel Prophet.......

kewl

who knew??

[Link: www.scotlandonsunday.com...]

The Nation of Islam, until recently more often called the Black Muslims, is an extremist American cult whose belief system comprises a kitschy mixture of bad science fiction and corrupted Islamic theology.

It believes that a circular spaceship carrying 1,500 smaller ships filled with bombs will at some indeterminate point destroy both Britain and America. But despite this, the Nation of Islam has played a significant part in the history of America in the 20th century, in particular the history of African Americans.

Would a real reporter spin a capture of a Anti-Aircraft Missile in a mosque, into an alleged "occupation" outrage? No, but an al-Guardian dhimmi would, and did:

Luke Harding in Baghdad
Saturday January 3, 2004
The Guardian

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Surrounded by upturned chairs and an abandoned turban, Sabah Al-Kaisey surveyed his ransacked office yesterday.
The American troops who burst into his mosque on Thursday morning had smashed down the front gate, broken the air conditioners and ripped up the carpets. They had also thrown several Korans on the floor and allegedly punched the man giving the call to prayer in the face.

"They even took our nuts," said Mr Kaisey yesterday, opening the door of the mosque's empty fridge.

The troops who raided the Ibn Taymiyah mosque, used by Baghdad's Sunnis, appear to have been looking for weapons used by Iraq's resistance. They recovered a couple of AK-47s, hand grenades and an anti-aircraft missile, US military officials said.

Abdul Sattar, the mosque's imam, said the weapons were used by its guards. "They were there to protect ourselves," he told the Arabic TV station Al-Jazeera, which showed images of the damaged Korans.

The raid has served to increase the anger and frustration of Iraq's Sunnis, who feel marginalised and discriminated against in post-Saddam Iraq.

Yesterday, hundreds of worshippers demonstrated against the raid and US occupation.

"This is not the behaviour of liberators, but occupiers," Mr Kaisey said, pointing to the metal collection box which had been smashed open by US troops...
----------------------------------------
Actually, "alleged" isn't part of al-Guardian's vocabulary.

Camel Prophet

Actually, "alleged" isn't part of al-Guardian's vocabulary.

Unless, of course, they are referring to "alleged" terrorists.

Camel Prophet,

Great piece on the Nation of Islam.

Here's another on the Michael Jackson connection

And here's one on Arafat

Quote of the day:

"They even took our nuts," said Mr Kaisey yesterday, opening the door of the mosque's empty fridge.

It's all a plot to get cashews for Halliburton...

... or was he talking about THOSE nuts? Now that we have the vaginabomb, I suppose explodeynuts aren't far behind.

Cooper for President

Perhaps the theft of the nuts is somehow related to
this story.

#77 Jaffar

kaffir astronauts were playing golf on the bachelor pad of the moon god.

LOL! But it only makes sense if the greater number of Muslims know Allah is the moon-god.

#79 Camel Prophet

Have you seen this site? Someone here at LGF linked to it about five days ago. The site-owner (Craig Winn) wrote a book that I think you'd find informative, and it's free on-line. Although he relies to some degree on al-Tabari (which I don't think is available online as an English translation), his references to Bukhari, Muslim, and the Koran are all legitimate (I checked the MSA [Muslim Brotherhood] koran and sunnah websites while I was reading---the incitement to Jew & Christian hatred, but especially Jew-hatred, is obscene). And they call it a "holy book"....."religion of peace".....

Very enlightening for the kufaar.

OT -- Images coming in from Mars!

And so far... no pictures of mosques up there-- phew! They didn't beat us to the red planet! ;-)

#43 Cooper for President,

Under "Economic justice" that should be STILL be paid, not earn, those folks do not earn any economic income.

Tal G has been blogging about the latest fence protest, and tells everyone to vote for ISM in the LGF poll.

[Link: talg.blogspot.com...]
[Link: talg.blogspot.com...]
[Link: talg.blogspot.com...]

Read all the comments. Several ISM sympathizers get thoroughly fisked.

re: Jewish "peace tools".

From experience, I have noticed that many leftist Jews are either not religious at all or when they are religious, their religious practice is not traditional.

Those who genuinely care about Jewish law (halacha) would find some of the practices a bit "off".

The Israeli expression is that the kippah gets smaller until it's the size of a coin. Compromising practice rather than sticking to what you say you believe in Jewishly.

For example breaking the Sabbath laws for a "really good cause" (that is not health threatening rather social), or kosher kitchens that aren't really kosher, skipping prayer because it isn't that necessary, etc.

But that is merely my impression. Your milage may vary.

Proof: islam inconsistent and untenable, according to principles of logic. However, you have to be an MIT/Phd in order to understand the following:

[Link: www.geocities.com...]

"And now she fights for the rights of those who want to execute lesbians and gays by stoning."

I know I've said similar things before, but it is quotes like these that show Charles' genius.

It's unfortunate how misguided and illogical the Left is sometimes/often/always?. Every once in a while, it takes an anti-Idiotarian to really shine a light on it.

#54 Cooper for President

lawyer doing work pro-boner

Like in a sex case maybe?

Tasty Beverage #84:

I downloaded the book that you mentioned. You will find more downloads at Wikipedia, the Encyclopedia to which anyone can contribute:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

JERMAINE JACKSON: DRESSED FOR JIHAD (not a fake):

[Link: www.geocities.com...]

OT Might have missed this earlier, but don't remember seeing it here.

Sharia comes to Canada (...no really)

I apologize if it's been posted before but this is worth mentioning if it wasn't.

Wonder where Cherie Blair gets her political ideas?

Blairs spend another Christmas at Sharm

Free luxury vacations as guests of the royal family of Jordan? That has nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

Israel is being way too nice with these people. At a minimum, they are aiding and abetting terrorism. They should be treated like any other terrorist sympathizers and enablers. They should not be jailed, they should be shot.

Perhaps a few dead peace activists might teach the rest not to protect Palestinians weapon tunnels.

> #48 Idiotarian 1/3/2004 09:12P

The space program is not a partisan issue.

> #68 SteveC 1/3/2004 10:15PM PST

Why is everything "we are better than them"?

Insecurity?

I remind you that we have very recently lost our own share of orbiters, landers, and space shuttles.

What (may have) happened to Beagle and what did happen to Climate Orbiter could have easily happened to Spirit. Beagle may still be alive and perhaps the recent reset will offer something. Any reasonable person should hope for just that...

Anyway, great news about Spirit. I work at an RTOS company. Pathfinder used WindRiver RTOS and its also inside several other current space birdies, so the celebrations have begun!

#96: "Perhaps a few dead peace activists might teach the rest not to protect Palestinians weapon tunnels."

It would simply reduce sympathy for Israel.

Johnx (#97) wrote:

Beagle may still be alive and perhaps the recent reset will offer something.

I hope so. Beagle is a heck of a cool name for a space probe. Probably named in honor of Darwin's ship, but I keep imagining Snoopy or Shiloh prowling Mars.

OT - how long will it take for the french to buckle?

Muslims everywhere, please take note: France, our champion at the UN, has finally joined the Anglo-Saxon crusade.

The French War on Islam

OT - The Real Saddam

Discovery Times

This program makes it pretty clear that our troops were greeted with universal thumbs up in most towns in Iraq.

Astonishingly, the media doesn't even make the ballot for idiot of the year.

These media bastards need to be held to account. We need to march our media through Iraqs death camps and fields of bones.

These people suck. Bigtime.

OT: Turkey: Turks Think Americans Raped 1000's of Iraqis "I did not say American troops are literally raping Iraqi women," ["Dr." Susan Block said]. "I don't know if Americans are raping Iraqi women. I do know they are killing them. I don't know if that's much better." She said it was clear she was using the term rape as a metaphor for invasion.
OT: Iran: Ministry of Agricultural Jihad (I guess Jihad is striving!)

She is determined to continue work on a new project, Shachen I' Shachen, which means neighbor-to-neighbor and focuses on training Israelis to teach one another about Palestinian human-rights abuses

Most Israelis I have spoken with know way too much about Palestinian human-rights abuses, especially in pizza places, dicsos, buses, etc.

It is so ironice that these morons who are atheistic, pro women, pro choice, pro gay rights, march for the most nihilistic, fascist, totalitarian societies imaginable. Even someone who is "Liberal and Proud" such as Ellen Ratner shills last year for Saudi Arabia and Syuria.

Yes, politics makes strange bedfellows. But there is one thing that they have in common: hatred of Jews and Israel!

johnx #98,

Perhaps you can educate us as to exactly how this "sympathy" that you speak of is above the non-zero level?

Maybe this is old news but... the author of the Saudi curriculum endorses slavery. Deserves a headline methinks.

[Link: www.arabianews.org...]

OT, but From the Horse' mouth:
Libya bought Pakistan N-plans

he son of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi has revealed that Libya bought plans to make a nuclear bomb from Pakistani scientists as part of the quest for weapons of mass destruction it has now promised to abandon. Saif al-Islam Gaddafi said Libya had spent at least $US40million ($53 million) trying to build the bomb ? an effort that Western weapons inspectors believe came much closer to fruition than previously thought. Revelations of the extent of Pakistani involvement are expected to increase US and British pressure on President Pervez Musharraf, who already stands accused of failing to prevent the illicit sale of nuclear material to Iran. Pakistan admitted last week that "rogue scientists" might have peddled technology for individual gain. It said several had been questioned, including Abdul Qadeer Khan, a fundamentalist sympathiser regarded as the father of Pakistan's nuclear program. In an interview on his farm east of Tripoli, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, 32, confirmed that Libya used a network of international middlemen to buy nuclear components, including centrifuges, on the black market.

The Australian (Newspaper Link)

Tasty Beverage (#84):

I posted the link to "Prophet of Doom". I have studied Islam extensively and this is one of the best books I have found on the subject.

The Koran itself is badly jumbled, there is no context of time, place or event for it. This book reconstructs the chronology of the Koran (via hadiths, etc.) and then relates chapter and verse to events in Mohammed's career. A revealing and clarifying approach.

The opposite of love is not hate, as commonly supposed, but rather fear. This book shows that contrast starkly. It also makes clear the dismal ignorance and absurd mistakes within the "infallible and perfect" Koran. The Satanic authorship of some verses is undeniable. My question: "When did Satan stop dictating verses?" For that matter: "When did Satan start dictating verses?"

All in all, a good expose of the Unholy Koran.

#107 Big Ern - Thank you for that. So I suppose he's against reform of Saudi textbooks. What a lovely fellow (not).

Isn't imprisoning and deprting dissidents a trait of Fascists?

At least they didn't crush this one with a bulldozer ...

What a bonehead! Her profile fits with all of the people I know, who think the greatest threat to America is fringe Christians. Somehow, gay and lesbian friends of mine think that it's horrible that some Christians preach against gay marraige, yet align themselves with Islamic tyrants who gladly execute us.

I was thinking the same thing as #1, so I googled for a definition of "social justice" and found this excellent Michael Novak article:

The trouble with “social justice” begins with the very meaning of the term. Hayek points out that whole books and treatises have been written about social justice without ever offering a definition of it. It is allowed to float in the air as if everyone will recognize an instance of it when it appears. This vagueness seems indispensable. The minute one begins to define social justice, one runs into embarrassing intellectual difficulties. It becomes, most often, a term of art whose operational meaning is, “We need a law against that.” In other words, it becomes an instrument of ideological intimidation, for the purpose of gaining the power of legal coercion.

As Glenn would say, read the whole thing

#111 Saskatchewan Morlock

Actually, Fascists generally just execute their opponents. Saddam liked to insert his "enemies" into a paper shredder, feet first for maximum terror. But that's exactly the same as what happens to idiot tools like the late unlamented Rachel Corrie who enable fascist oppression in some delusional fantasy that they are saving the world from, what?--oh yeah, from Jews.

61 Yehudit

Wow, Hank is the new Bob Hope! I'm starting to like the 21st century. Soon, maybe we can go to Vegas and see Agnostic Front?

BTW - I was the singer for a semi-famous hardcore band in the 80's - and went on to National Security and law enforcement work.

Not every musician turns out to be a Mumia supporting, flag burning dope addict...even though 99% of my band's "fans" are surely in that camp.

#111

"Dissident"? How amusing.

In your view, a burglar might be better-defined as a "voluntary guest" or some such nonsense.

#115-

Which band? I would really like to see a punk revival, sans the lefty politics.

Personally I think these "activists" come up with terms like "social justice" to create a lingual moat around their fragile glass castle of self-esteem (metaphor alert!). It's the same basic premise as the honorable Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan's attitude about slavery (post 107 above). He expresses his solidarity with the Berkeley crowd eloquently, doesn't he?

Al-Fawzan refuted the mainstream Muslim interpretation that Islam worked to abolish slavery by introducing equality between the races.

“They are ignorant, not scholars,” he said of people who express such opinions. “They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.”

"They are ignorant, not scholars"

"Whoever says such things is an infidel"

I mean, isn't that priceless?

#114 scaramouche:

Our compatriot is making a couple of mistakes often made by trolls (intentionally or otherwise).

1. It's not a sign of totalitarianism to arrest people who are breaking the law of the land. Any cursory reading of the Israeli press will show that Israel tolerates plenty of arguments and attacks on the government (of whatever stripe).

2. Deporting foreign nationals who break the law of the land, endanger the citizens of the country, and give comfort and support to its enemies is not equivalent to exiling a citizen for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes.

But let's not confuse the poor thing with facts, OK?

#114 cba

The LLL has been flinging the "fascism" label at Israel (and the U.S., for that matter) for so long now, that the poor trolls have become thoroughly brainwashed. I suggest a good "deprogamming", say in a Saudi or Syrian prison, to help snap them out of their delusions.

Sorry, wrong number.

115 Thoroughly Modern Hillbilly

Not every musician turns out to be a Mumia supporting, flag burning dope addict...even though 99% of my band's "fans" are surely in that camp.

I have a brother-in-law who plays in a rock band. On the other hand, in the daytime he is a VP for finance at a hospital and, as a good Southern Baptist, doesn't smoke or drink.

's OK, scaramouche, I knew what you meant!

I just find it amusing when they do that. The same way Israel is supposed to provide jobs and housing and medical care for Palestinians, otherwise it's not treating all its citizens equally. (Yes, I know Israel does provide medical treatment--and jobs, which I think is a bad idea. But you know what I mean.)

# 123 cba

Right. Not to mention that odious apartheid fence--just like the ones they used to have in South Africa. (I blame a lot of this on the Edward Saidification of Leftist dogma--the twaddle of Orientalism and colonialism and all that.)

Saudi Interior Minister/Prince Naif
"However, it is painful to have some of our sons as tools of terrorism" Quote is the only thing of note in link. Hey Naif ..... we feel your pain, honest we do.
[Link: www.imra.org.il...]

wildly OT here, but i was reading Cal Thomas and he brings up a good point about Frenchy Dean and bringing up his kids jewish, while he professes to be religious.

who the hell is he to defile God with that crap. we should be making a bigger deal about how his wife forced her no-backbone "tolerant liberal" husband is forcing the kids to be brought up in the jewish cult, don'tcha think?

Saskatchewan Morlock (#111),

At least they didn't crush this one with a bulldozer ...

You'll believe anything won't you?

Do you truly believe if Rachael Corrie was "run over" and "backed over" by one of these that there would be anything at all left of her?

Rachael ran and ran, but she just couldn't get away from the rampaging bulldozer.

The Saudis are coming into the modern world!

RIYADH, 4 January 2004 — Physical education at girls schools will be introduced without violating Shariah regulations, Education Minister Dr. Muhammad Al-Rasheed was quoted as saying yesterday.

“If we find that physical education is good for the health of girls students and does not contain anything that violates Shariah...we’ll go ahead with the program,” he told Al-Eqtisadiah, a sister publication of Arab News.

PE for Girls Without Violating Shariah Regulations
Sometimes links to the Arab News don't work right. Just go to arabnews.com and look for the story.

OT
Chinese caught trying to bug Israeli embassy...

kaiser #126,

jewish cult

FOAD.

Rachel Corrie--
Now, there's a story.
Young girl gets squashed at the Israeli border.
Cause of death: attention deficit disorder.

kaiser #126

forcing the kids to be brought up in the jewish cult, don'tcha think?

My G*d, this fool has actually put me in the postion of defending the Angriest Little Dwarf. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the Dean kids might have chosen (or at least had some preference for) being raised in the Jewish tradition as apposed to their father's watered-down version of Protestant Christianity?

#109 Dean Douthat

Thanks. I knew it was somebody here who linked to "Prophet of Doom" about a week ago. I'm still making my way through it, because, for argument's sake, I'm checking it's references to the source material.

quran
bukhari
muslim.

Unpleasant reading.

"Actually, Fascists generally just execute their opponents."

But they Do imprison and export them, as the Nazis did before the camps, right?

Saskatchewan Morlock, your Jew-hatred will rot your soul. The process has already begun as far as I can tell.

1. It's not a sign of totalitarianism to arrest people who are breaking the law of the land.

it is a political arrest since she was picked up for taking part in a political demonstration.

2. Deporting foreign nationals who break the law of the land, endanger the citizens of the country, and give comfort and support to its enemies is not equivalent to exiling a citizen for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes.

What she did does not amount to "endangering citizens or giving comfort to enemies".

You'll believe anything won't you?

"Do you truly believe if Rachael Corrie was "run over" and "backed over" by one of these that there would be anything at all left of her?"

Are you suggesting that this didn't happen? Even Israel said it did. They simply deny that it was a conscious act, , and their ally refuses to undertake an independent investigation.

"Rachael ran and ran, but she just couldn't get away from the rampaging bulldozer."

No, she was partaking in a well-worn Tactic of Non-violent Resistance, as Israel attempted to destroy the home of a Palestinian doctor.

Unfortunately, this Tactic relies upon the reason of the driver, the person who crushed her to death.

Israel attempted to destroy the home of a Palestinian doctor.

No, asshat. Israel was destroying the end of a tunnel that came into his house from Egypt. These tunnels are used to smuggles arms, explosives and drugs into the Gaza strip. The first two are used to kill Israelis. The third is used to finance the first two. Ms. Corrie (or St. Pancake, as she is affectionately called by myself and others) aided and abetted (and was thus a part of) a criminal conspiracy. That she was dumb enough th stand in front of a bulldozer does not mitigate her previous actions; it merely shows her stupidity.

Saskatchewan Morlock (#136),

Do you know the name of this "palestinian doctor"?
Or are you just making shit up again?

How many times to we have to listen to the same lies and propaganda? Do some research on the incident, stop being so lazy and allowing your Jew-hatred to blind you to the truth. And you accuse others here of being narrow-minded! The "Palestinian doctor" bit is a lie, plain and simple. The IDF were destroying a weapons-smuggling tunnel and Rachel Corrie had no right to interfere with what the IDF were doing. She died trying to protect terrorists.

Saskatchewan Morlock

But they Do imprison and export them, as the Nazis did before the camps, right?

Right, because expelling a foreign agitator is exactly like rounding up people and sending them to concentration camps, because Israelis = Nazis. The Jooos did it...

That line of reasoning would be most welcome at this site, Sir Morlock. Go check it out! I'm sure you'll make lots of new friends.

137, 8, 9 - It is my understanding that the story given about the tunnels was refuted almost as soon as it was disseminated. But by all means, if it's that well-known, you shouldn't have any trouble supporting it with a credible source.

140 - Who said anything about "Jooos"?
That sort of response is Disinformation.

All I did was show your analysis to be in error.

Don't pout.

"Rachael ran and ran, but she just couldn't get away from the rampaging bulldozer."

I'm just dying to see some type of documentation for that particular version of events. Have you ever seen, or better yet, operated a bulldozer? If some fool opts to stand/sit/lie down right in front of you, it is nigh unto impossible to see them and stop.

We keep refering to these moonbats as Jews. They aren't Jews, they are of Jewish ancestry. Just because they had Jewish grandparents and a Jewish last name shouldn't give them claim to the title.

Jaffar, the ISM members made the drivers aware of their presence, addressing them on bullhorns and wearing bright vests.

Rachel was standing on a pile of dirt, well within the line of sight of the driver, who was already aware of her presence.

If he did not see her, the shouts from the other members, or his escort in an APC, should have told him there was someone in the way.

Here is what you so desperately need. Lots of links to follow and absorb...

140 - Who said anything about "Jooos"?

You did, hotshot: Post #134

But they Do imprison and export them, as the Nazis did before the camps, right?

You did, child, make the Israelis = Nazi comparison, and got called on it.

Rachel was standing on a pile of dirt, well within the line of sight of the driver, who was already aware of her presence.

Wrong again.

Read the photo caption in this story.

The two pictures are not a before and after, with the same machine, in the same place.

#146 Jaffar
But, but, but, there isn't any house in those photos - I thought St. Pancake was protecting a house.

/morlock

#136 Morlock

Let me pick up on one thing in that post..that the Berzerkly drone was "illegally" arrested because she was doing something political.

Um... motivation is no excuse for breaking a law.

Please do come to Los Angeles and sit in the intersection of Wilshire and La Cienega, toss stones and bottles at the motorists and pedestrians, and after LAPD carts you off to jail, do try to explain to the judge at your arraignment how the nasty old LAPD was engaged in political oppression ... like, man, no real law was broken because you were engaged in a political demonstration, you know.

you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Saskatchewan Morlock

Go to post #29 on this link.

And another lovely one where Yassir Arafish, the Teflon Terrorist master himself, in a lovely meet and greet with Rachel's parents.

Rachel was, at best, a hopelessly naive girl who allowed herself to be unwittingly used as a human shield to protect a pipeline for terrorist smuggling, and at worst at active participant in a war.

OK, here it comes. I always wanted to do this :-P

Put on your safety goggles everyone.

Dear Saskatchewan Morlock

MEMO

This is an automated reply from the Bullshit Detector at Little Green Footballs.
Your recent post contained troll-like characteristics which resembles the type of message sent by spoiled ISM members on summer holiday, college students who have recently inhaled Noam Chomsky’s foul rantings, Adam Shapiro wannabes, Nazi sympathizers, or genuine [bigoted word]s.

In order to prevent another thread being hijacked, and to send your message to the appropriate department for response (FOAD, GAZE, Go Away Gordon, or The Bus To Rachel Corrie’s Tomb Is Leaving - Be Sure You’re Under It), kindly reply to the following questions:

1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the [bigoted word]s don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity - making the desert bloom - while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?

2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?

3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?

4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?

5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?

6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?

7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on busses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their sandy asses kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?

8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?

9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?

10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?

11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?

Please state your answers to the questions listed above. If you need assistance or require additional study, then please refer to the following links:

History of the Middle East Conflict:
[Link: www.infoclick......]

Thousands of women killed for honor: [Link: news.national......]

Muslims lament Israel’s existence:
[Link: www.iht.com...]

Disputed Territories – Forgotten Facts
[Link: www.mfa.gov.i......]

The size of Israel compared to neighboring countries in the region
[Link: www.iris.org.......]

Jews expelled from Arab Countries
[Link: www.jpost.com......]

One Million Jews flee Arab countries – why no right of return for them?
[Link: www.forgotten......]

Middle East Facts
[Link: yashiko.middl......]

Middle East Truth
[Link: www.mideasttr......]

Larry Miller on Hypocrisy
[Link: weeklystandar......]

Please respond to the items listed above. Based on your answers a thoughtful reply or instruction to FOAD will be provided.

Thank you for writing to Little Green Footballs.

Signed,

Troll Early Warning Detection Team

Jaffar (#142),

Your sarcasm detector must be on the blink.

#150 John W.

{APPLAUSE}

Rachel Corrie had her head and all limbs attached in the photo that was taken after her incident. So the ISM member who said she was run over twice was lying.
Since she was not crushed, she in the palestinian "Hospital" possibly mudered to make her a 'Shaid."

This is what a bulldozer does:

[Link: health.hss.state.ak.us...]

SUMMARY

A 49-year-old male bulldozer operator (the victim) was crushed to death while compacting earthen fill with a bulldozer during the construction of an oil exploration island. The victim was operating the bulldozer on level ground, alternately in forward and reverse at half throttle. ....the victim exited the cab on the right side, and stepped down onto the track of the bulldozer to give directions to a truck driver. Investigative information suggests that at this moment the transmission may have slipped back into the first gear of reverse, causing the bulldozer to move suddenly in reverse. As a result, the victim was pulled between the underside of the fender and the top of the track cleats. As the bulldozer continued in reverse, the victim was fatally crushed beneath the track cleats. NIOSH investigators concluded that, in order to prevent future similar occurrences, employers should:
CAUSE OF DEATH

The medical examiner listed the cause of death as massive crushing and severing trauma to the head and body.

Police Deputy Chief Paul Conner said at about 2 p.m. Lemos jumped into a 196,000-pound front loader -- a colossal bulldozer-type machine used to lift and dump large amounts of debris -- and started driving the loader into several office buildings and vehicles. At one point Lemos, who routinely operated the machinery at the plant, drove the loader directly at Reber, a foreman at Chemical Lime who had taken refuge in his pickup.
     
      "Art got up and started running across the parking lot and the loader took off after him full speed," one witness said.
      Both police and several witnesses said Lemos chased Reber down with the loader, lifted up the bucket of the machinery and dropped it on top of the foreman, killing him.
     
      "He just lowered the bucket right down on top of him," the co-worker continued. "It was the most gruesome sight you could ever see. It looks like all that is left (of Reber) is his clothes."

[Link: www.reviewjournal.com...]

And even time magazine says there WAS NO MASSACURE IN JENIN.

[Link: www.time.com...]

On April 17, more than two weeks after the battle began, Dr. Mohammed Abu Ghali, director of the Jenin Hospital, was allowed by Israeli soldiers to make his third foray into the camp to tend to victims. Abu Ghali saw the body of a man crushed by a bulldozer or tank track, his intestines spilling out. The doctor will remember Jenin. So will countless others, both Israeli and Palestinian. And in the Middle East, memory is the fuel that nourishes violence, revenge and unending hate. —TIME, May 13, 2002

Jaffar:

140 - Who said anything about "Jooos"?

You did, hotshot: Post #134

No, I most certainly did not. That is a LIE.
You think the Nazis were the only Fascist Regime to sully our planet?

It was simply an example which proved you wrong.

Again, don't pout.

You think the Nazis were the only Fascist Regime to sully our planet?

Name the other Facist regimes.

51 Geepers

Unfortunately, I don't think our Morlock friend was being sarcastic. He actually has a vision (cue movie reel) in his head where the brave Ms. Corrie, fearless protector of the 'indiginous peoples' of the M.E. is being chased by a bulldozer in some Roadrunner/Wiley E Coyote kind of way.

I don't understand why the Saskatchewan Morlock can't see the difference between

a) deporting a foreigner who comes to your country solely to make trouble

b) rounding up your own citizens engaged in peaceful protests and gassing them in the camps

If I went to Saudi Arabia, and sought to peacefully preach the Gospel, I would be beheaded--they make you sign a piece of paper acknowledging that you are aware of this fact, before they let you in.

If I went to France and threw bottles at cops, I'd be arrested and deported.

In the US, you can screw up your paperwork and get deported, married to an American or not.

I don't see how deporting foreigners who disobey the rules is inherently fascist.

154 Saskatchewan Morlock

Than pray tell child, who is the 'they' in the following sentence?

But they Do imprison and export them, as the Nazis did before the camps, right?

What is the comarison you are trying to make here?

OH< I GET IT!

"Fascist", to a Morlock, means "to the right of Howard Dean".

So every country except socialisms, North Korea, China and Cuba are "fascist".

So then he is right, deporting foreigners who make trouble is symptomatic of "fascism", Morlock definition.

To those of us who speak English, Fascists were Mussolini and Hitler.

Incidentally, Saskatchewan Morlock, Palestinians who protest against the PA are shot as "collaborators with Israel".

Kindly tell me how democratic that is.

You think the Nazis were the only Fascist Regime to sully our planet?

No child, I don't. There are many such regimes even today with noticably fascist tendencies, the overwhelming majority of them (Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Syria, Palestinian Authority, Iraq up until 4/9/03 Pakistan) share a certain...something...though I can't quite put my finger on it.

Saskatchewan Morlock answer one of the questions in 150. Or admit you don't know sh-t from Shinola about Israel.

Seriously, though, if you are not a citizen of a country, what gives you the right to involve yourself in that country's politics?

The Nazis that SM so chartiably compared Israel to, deported and imprisoned THEIR OWN CITIZENS.

Almost every country does so to foreigners.

But, when Jews are involved, SM can't make these distinctions. Everything they do is alwasy worse than anything anyone else does, unless it's Americans.

Hey, I just had an epiphany!

The Nazis had a program of charitable giving to the needy in winter time.

The Nazis also built highways.

So when Israelis build highways and give to the needy they're acting just like Nazis.

See, it's easy to be a Morlock.

#154 Morlock

If you're going to make the comparison of Israel with fascists (and Nazis, the German flavor), at least stick with your initial charge, don't try denying it later in the same thread with shouts of "liar liar".

As if you could sink any lower, it is just an indication of your total lack of anything approaching rational or logical discourse.

No wonder the democraticunderground is a closed circle[jerk] that boots out anyone that strays from their psychotic "talking" points ... none of them can survive in any other forum (except maybe idiotmedia or the boards on the DNC).

Of all the right-wing sites Ilike to post on, this is the only one that bans even trolls.

Command Post has a crop of trolls who post regularly. They're never banned. Neither are the liberals and leftists who come there to argue with us...

Whereas Indymedia deletes alll ideologically incorrect posts, and DU bans anyone who's not a "progressive" (they give you a list of opinions you're not allowed to hold there)...

I never spend any time on FreeRepublic--too big a tent, for my taste--so I don't know if they ban liberals or not.

Maybe someone with wider experience than I have can weigh in on this.

I think our Morlock-child friend has taken his marbles and ran away back to Aidemydni.

I think he lost those marbles while he was over at Indymedia. He came here looking for them, but he decided the search was too much trouble.

(--from "1001 Forced Metaphors")

#144 Saskatchewan Morlock

If he did not see her, the shouts from the other members, or his escort in an APC, should have told him there was someone in the way.

I have worked around heavy equipment and:

1. The operator cannot hear shouts whether he wears hearing protection or not. The ambient noise is so loud that they should wear hearing protection by law in the US.

2. NO ONE who knows anything about dozers approaches one without first getting the attention and consent of the operator, typically by throwing rocks or dirt clods into the field of view of the operator (not at the dozer) and then hand signalling. The blade of a D-9 is taller than a average human and will completely obscure anyone in front of it if being carried in a travel position. The Israeli D-9 in question was further isolated by the necessary bullet shield.

"Your recent post contained troll-like characteristics"

Such as ... ?

1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”.

Are you aware that this war was a response to the Ethnic Cleansing and statements by Zionists of their intention to create a racially-exclusive State?

2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan ...

Which gave the Zionists what they wanted, and did not address the Ethnic Cleansing of the region by the Zionists.

Why should they have accepted a plan which was only arrived at through political manipulation and terrorism, and drove Arabs from their homes?

Would YOU accept such a plan ... ?

"on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before"

I assume you're referring to the elaborate Zionist Father - er - Homeland Mythology, in which because a small portion of this region had once been the brief home to a Jewish Administration, it became known as "the homeland of the Jews"?

I'm sure that to those wishing to lord over the Jews, as the Zionists do, this political milestone was groundbreaking, but the myth is still a myth.

3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy?

Not since the Zionists arrived from Europe and polarized the region, no.

Can you tell me why you feel that this diversion is at all relevant to this conversation?

4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries?

That is an interesting interpretation of the Ethnic Cleansing which took place at the hands of the Zionists, Revisionist.

It's my understanding that most of these Jews left to make homes in their new "Homeland", although I do acknowledge that they were forced to leave possessions and wealth behind.

How is THIS relevant?

Oh, and the Right Of Return is enshrined in law.

5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps?

Oh, I see, this is the "Transfer" argument ...

The "camps" to which you refer are not shanty towns or tent cities. They are thriving communities, as most of the Palestinians, given the Right Of Return, expected to return to the land from which they were driven.

6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories

AKA: Occupied Territories, except to those who believe in creating "Greater Israel" ...

7. If your complaint is about the security fence

Seperation Wall, the attempt to create a permanent border as international pressure comes to bear upon Sharon.

No, I don't believe the Zionist propaganda about this construction. Terrorism (fourth generation warfare) looks for chinks in the armour. Building more armour cannot stop it. Only men who are serious about peace can stop terrorism.

Sharon is not one of these.

8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground?

They are being treated, presently, and in accordance to the will of [Link: www.newamericancentury.org...] like the Jews were treated by the Germans. They are the scapegoat, the reason the Bush/PNAC Administration gives for pursuing their Fascist agenda.

I'm doing it because I'd hope to God someone would do it if the roles were reversed, and it was happening to me.

"Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”?"

The Transfer idea again?

9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.?

I do, but my Government is pressuring the State for reforms. I have, however, written articles on these acts. If you knew me at all, as opposed to imposing your small-minded ideas of what you THINK I am, you would know this.

(It wasn't until I was maliciously attacked by Zionists, after including ONE PARAGRAPH in one of my articles, about Israel, that I started looking into Zionism.)

They are NOT demanding the same of Israel, which does its dirt under the guise of "democracy", etc, as it continues to steadily axpand the State ...

Are you acting to effect change in these States (aside from supporting a series of wars against them), or do you bring it up as another Distraction?

10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel?

Or if the POLITICAL ideology of Zionism hadn't been created, or the Zionists arriving from Europe hadn't polarized the Jewish community under Nationalism, in order to fulfill their financial, political, military, and geostrategic goals?

You act as if the Arabs were the immigrants who started this conflict ...

What if the Israelis were to acknowledge their past, as opposed to denying that it exists, and attempted to make ammends, and help the Palestinians build a viable State?

That, of course, would take leaders more interested in peace than "winning", who weren't bent on destroying Palestine, and annexing it to fulfill the wishes of the Zionists ...

11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”?

Yes, I was addressing this very thing on the thread in which people were actually celebrating the shooting of Tom Hurndall. .

This is my most common reaction to reading this site.

It's funny, but in attempting to justify (and we seek to justify when we know what we are engaged in is wrong) what Israel has done, and is doing, trolls on others sites have used these same points over and over and over and over, and demanded that I respond to them, while avoiding any response whatsoever to what I'd said.

You guys all take the same class, or get a Disinfo pack before you post ... ?

Proverbs 18:1

"Name the other Facist regimes."

Where would you like me to begin? Should we limit this to the 20th, 21st Century?

Do you even know what Fascism is? Why don't you go do some research, and then describe the factors which define one "Fascist".

The sitauation in the United States - or Israel - may appear a bit different after doing that.

More bullshit from the Propaganda Parrot. Is he even capable of an independent thought?

Why should the Israelis help the Palestinians create a state? I don't understand that at all. The Palestinians have openly and repeatedly stated that they want to destroy all of Israel. If your neighbour was threatening to murder you and your family, what would your response be?

Saskatchewan Morlock (#171)

Answering a question with a question ... again.

Fred, I have also worked around heavy equipment, and know that you are not blind when you climb into that chair.

Wouldn't be much good to a construction site if you were ...

The other members were shouting AND WAVING at the driver.

And his IDF escort should have told him to stop.

SM is unaware that Jews have been living continuously in what is now Israel for the last 2000 years.

The Romans did not have magic teleporters that made them all go to Europe, only to return in 1948.

His apparent beliefe that there have been now Jews in what is now Israel until recently utterly discredits his knowledge of the history of the area.

Most Israelis today are descended from at least one Jew who never left Israel in the last 2000 years.

If the Israeli bulldozer squashed Rachel Corrie on purpose I wouldn't shed any more tears than I currently have, which is zero. She was a tool protecting a paleo smuggling tunnel and got what she deserved.

Rachel Corrie had no business interfering in an IDF operation. Every ISM member should be deported from Israel immediately, they're nothing but trouble and the IDF has enough to worry about without these terrorist-lovers getting into the mix.

This troll is a waste of time and energy. Its views are historically inaccurate and simplistic, and its mind is made up - why bother with it?

I have also worked around heavy equipment, and know that you are not blind when you climb into that chair.

Wrong again.

Any dozer operator is largely dependant on others to engage their brains and stay the hell out of the immediate area while the machiine is operating.

The operater is largely blind, and most certainly deaf while the machine is in motion.

I guess Israel has the world's fastest bulldozer?

And what is it about these people and the notion that throwing the word "fascist" into an argument is going to win it for them with no further effort?

"If your neighbour was threatening to murder you and your family, what would your response be?"

Hmmm. Funny you should bring that up.

I suppose if I lived in abject poverty, and my neighbour was talking about "Transferring" me and my family, in order to expand their State, I'd have to resort to terrorism (fourth generation warfare), wouldn't I?

If I didn't want to die or be "transferred", that is ...

Those are the words of Extremists, not the majority population. Most would be happy to live in peace, and the Extremists would lose power, if Israel were to be the "bigger man", and take meaningful steps to make peace.

First, you'll have to find leaders who are interested in peace, as opposed to "winning" ...

You guys may not know this, but I'm deaf and my father is a high school music teacher.

So, SM thinks that deliberately seeking to kill unarmed women and children in buses and shooping centers, et al, is a perfectly legitimate activity if done against Jews.

"Answering a question with a question ... again."

From the question, I got the distinct impression that this person didn't have a clue about the subject they were commenting on.

This was a request that they do some research before posting, instead of bleating in knee-jerk fashion, and ignoring the obvious.

#182 andrew

As a matter of fact, I remember you mentioning that.....just the other day......under similar 'circumstances'.

So, how does Sharon's wall "win" anything?

What will you say if the wall is built, it keeps terrorists out, and the Palestinians are left to govern themselves?

Suppose furthere that the wall adheres strictly to the Green Line?

Would you still think it okay for Palesitinians to sneak in and murder Jews?

I suppose if I lived in abject poverty, and my neighbour was talking about "Transferring" me and my family, in order to expand their State, I'd have to resort to terrorism (fourth generation warfare), wouldn't I?

Again answering a question with a question.

So you're saying that poverty causes terrorism? You're even dumber than I originally thought, and completely ignorant of history.

And what would these meaningful steps to peace be?? Should Israel be the bigger man and quietly die and give the terrorists what they want? Not one Arab state wants the idiot Pals--car swarmers, bus blowers, and crazy loons. There is no appeasing these people--other than Israel going quietly into the sea.
The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).Its emblem, like that of other Palestinian terrorist groups, displays a map of all of the State of Israel -- not just those areas administered by Israel since 1967.
Though the PLO claims that it recognizes Israel's right to exist and wants to found a state only in Gaza and the West Bank, its official stationery, bearing its official emblem, betrays its true goals. As PLO officials have indicated repeatedly, the organization has designs on conquering all of Israel. These aims have been incorporated into the PLO Charter and the PLO's "phased plan" for Israel's destruction.Founded in 1964 by the Arab League, the PLO was the invention of Egyptian President Gamal Abdul Nasser. Nasser saw it as a means to advance Egypt's goals of uniting the Arab world under Egyptian rule, by rallying the Arab states under the banner of destroying Israel. And this was before the famous 'Occupation' excuse.

"This troll is a waste of time and energy. Its views are historically inaccurate and simplistic, and its mind is made up - why bother with it?"

Just back up a second.

What have I said that is "historically inaccurate"?
Prove it.

My mind isn't "made up". My view was arrived at through study, debate, and research.

If you could mount a coherent argument, I'd have to listen to it, but you haven't.

"So, SM thinks that deliberately seeking to kill unarmed women and children in buses and shooping centers, et al, is a perfectly legitimate activity if done against Jews."

No, I never said that, and I think your Sword's a little dull from overuse, LIBELLIST.

Do you feel that killing innocent men, women, and children is alright if it's done against Arabs?

#185 J.D.
Yeah, see - I wasn't so interested in music because I couldn't hear it (but I could feel the beat). I really liked working on cars and stuff and I wanted my Dad's attention - but he was sooo busy with his students and all.

#190 andrew

You poor thing! That reminds me of a movie I once saw...........

Killing the innocent is right only if greater suffering can be averted, and if it is not done deliberately.

The IDF does not deliberately target civilians. Suicide bombers unquestionably do.

ANSWER MY QUESTION, MORLOCK.

I suppose if I lived in abject poverty, and my neighbour was talking about "Transferring" me and my family, in order to expand their State, I'd have to resort to terrorism (fourth generation warfare), wouldn't I?

And why is it that the Palestinians (and the Arab world generally) live in abject poverty? Could it be that the Palestinians have dedicated the last half century to some activities that are not quite conducive to wealth creation and a high standard of living?

And do you honestly think that is the Israeli's took down the settlements, withdrew behind the Green Line, bowed and curtsied to the Palis and 'took risks for peace' everything would be fine?

Look at this. and notice the date. This is before there was any settlements, any enclosures, any security walls, any State of Israel. The elephant in the room of any discussion of the Middle East conflict is the irrational, seething hatred Muslims in general (and Arab Muslims in particular have for Jews.

OT
Here it is again.
Saddam hid 35 billion pounds fortune in UK banks: Report

I'm sorry...was the troll speaking to me? I wasn't speaking to it.

So, tell me, Morlock, since Poland is occupying territory that belonged to Germany, and displaced tens of thousands of ethnic Germans in doing so, answer these questions:

Do descendants of these Germans have a "right of return"?

Does this right, if denied, entitle Germans to blow themselves up on Polish buses?

If your answer to these questions are "no", do please explain why it's all right to kill Jews if you are a Palestinian.

If you do not think so, just say, unequivocably,

"Suicide bombings deliberately targeting civillians are absolutely, inherently wrong, regardless of any legitimate grievance."

If you can't say this, you'll show yourself for what you are, Morlock.

#143: "Not Jews but of Jewish ancestry"

Under Jewish law, somebody who is born of a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism "ke-dat u-ke-din" (freely: according to proper protocol) remains a Jew in perpetuity, no matter what horrible transgressions (s)he may commit or how many times (s)he may forswear Judaism. [This is one reason why prospective converts have to be discouraged on three separate occasions, and Judaism does not actively recruit converts.] This does not in any way diminish any punishments due (in this world or the World to Come) for heinous sins --- in fact this closes off the "I am no longer Jewish so the law no longer applies to me" loophole ;-)

Under Israeli civil law, things are a bit different. For the purposes of the "Law of Return" (which grants accelerated citizenship to Jews and close relatives of Jews who immigrate to Israel), a Jew is one born of a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism, "except for one who has been [sic] a Jew and has voluntarily changed his/her religion". This definition is not a religiously "kosher" one but is a sociologically fairly sound definition.

I have argued a number of times on my blog that most far-leftist ideologies are religions in everything but name. Therefore, if somebody of Jewish ancestry adopts them, the person can be considered to have "voluntarily changed their religion". Take for instance a certain Israeli professor who is a card-carrying member of the Israeli communist party and writes endorsement letters to boycotts of his own colleagues [I speak the truth and lie not!]. As far as I am concerned this guy is no more "Jewish" [as in "meaningfully part of the Jewish nation"] than Richard Wagner or Pol Pot, and acknowledging this fact would at least have the benefit of clarity.

I don't use the word right and left, but Molrock is a Nazi. #170 is clear: Jews are guilty of living.

"So, how does Sharon's wall "win" anything?"

It creates an expended, quasi-permanent border, just as international pressure comes to bear against him.

"What will you say if the wall is built, it keeps terrorists out, and the Palestinians are left to govern themselves?"

It should have been built along Israel's border, instead of unilaterally creating a border with no legitimacy.

"Suppose furthere that the wall adheres strictly to the Green Line?"

If that is to be the border - great! Wall yourselves in, although I think it would be better to reform the State and make real attempts to make peace (instead of drafting agreements in which you try to further screw these people) and acknowledge what's happend in the region, as opposed to denying it outright.

The path you're taking doesn't deal with the problems you have. It only incubates them, leaving the possibility that they might flare up, possibly worse, in the future.

"Would you still think it okay for Palesitinians to sneak in and murder Jews?"

I don't think it's right that terrorists kill innocent people now. Nor do I think it is right that the IDF kills innocent people.

"So you're saying that poverty causes terrorism?"

No, I am saying that there are many psychological factors exacerbated by oppression, leading those without a military to resort to terrorist acts.

How did you derive that from my response? Is that simply the pre-fab response to what you'd THINK I'd say ... ?

No, I am saying that there are many psychological factors exacerbated by oppression, leading those without a military to resort to terrorist acts.

You're repeating Palestinian propaganda and justifying terrorism. Shame on you.

VeeBee:

If you are going to post such malicious LIBEL, then I demand that you support your allegation in some way.

I never said "the Jews" are guilty of anything.

I addressed the past and present actions of the ZIONISTS, a minority POLITICAL organization, who are hardly representative of the Jewish Community, regardless of their willingness to cower behind them all for protection.

Still waiting for answers to my questions about Germans and Poles, and the difference between that situation and Israel's.

You'll find them in #196.

#196: "tens of thousands of Germans"? Make that about 8-10 million, plus the Sudeten Germans. Their local leadership jumped on the bandwagon of the "Great German" leader who started a genocidal war of aggression and lost --- this was the price they paid. And [sarcasm] of course they and their offspring are still sitting in refugee camps because the German government refuses to integrate them and insists on their "right to return" to Silesia, Pomerania, and East Prussia, the latter partly in the "Polish Entity" and partly in the "Russian Federal Entity", and send in suicide bombers to blow themselves up in schools and restaurants in Breslau/Wroclaw, Posen/Poznan, Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad,... [/sarcasm]

By the way ...

Is that simply the pre-fab response to what you'd THINK I'd say ... ?

The answer to that is no, I simply asked you a question. Your paranoia is unnecessary. You're trotting out one cliche after another and really starting to bore me.

#201 Saskatchewan Morlock
The 'its not anti-Semitism, its just anti-Zionism!' line gets trotted out once again.

Dear Morlock child, even now, don't you get it?

I addressed the past and present actions of the ZIONISTS, a minority POLITICAL organization, who are hardly representative of the Jewish Community, regardless of their willingness to cower behind them all for protection.

Good grief, where do you come up with this bullshit from? And can you stop already with the "libel"? It's childish.

Thank you, Former Belgian, I'd forgotten the proper number or ethnic Germans displaced from lands annexed to Russia and Poland; I didn't want to over state my case.

Still waiting to hear from the Morlock...

(#206) zulubaby

where do you come up with this

It's the latest line of pro-Palestinian, divestment conference "deconstruction" of Zionism, taught at the "solidarity" conferences.

To them, now Jews don't even support Israel. Classic. Amazing how many "educated" people have no problem with Arab and Muslim totalitarianism, and resort to ridiculous distortions to attack liberal democracies and the one place in the Middle East where Arab citizens have any kind of meaningful voting rights and religious freedoms.

Just as baseless and shameless as most everything else they put forth.

In any event, the German displacement is a far worse crime by any reasonable standard. More people affected, and many of the Germans who were living there, there families had been there since ancient times. Unlike the Arabs, who didn't get to Palestine until the eighth century or so; and massacred Christians and Jews when they came...

For the record, SM, I am not Israeli nor Jewish, though from some of your remarks you seem to think I am.

"You're repeating Palestinian propaganda and justifying terrorism. Shame on you."

No, I am repeating what I have learned by studying the psychology behind such conflicts.

If you do not understand the difference, perhaps you should do some research.

Why would I "justify" terrorism? I don't want to see any more dead bodies - on EITHER side.

Answer me this: Are you interested in peace, or in crushing "the enemy" ... ?

Proverbs 18:1

In fact,my family name is probably Pictish. I suppose I have a right of return to Caledonia. My people had been there since the New Stone Age, then the Celts drove us into the hills.

It's okay for me to blow myself up on a bus in London then.

"So, how does Sharon's wall "win" anything?"

Security fence, a non-violent counter-terrorist measure popular with something like 83% of Israelis, is an effective way of stopping terrorism. The frequency of successful suicide bombings is down to one every other month -- a considerable achievement if you keep in mind that there was no lull in attempts to bomb Israelis.

It should have been built along Israel's border

1949 amistice line does not constitute a legitimate international border. According to the UN resolution 242 Israel is to give up some of the land she won in a defensive battle (the reason we know it's defensive is because the Arabs kept reminding that they are going to "throw Jews into the sea" i.e. genocide). It was understood that Israel won't be able to survive within the 1949 armistice line and much of the disputed land will end up in Israel's hands permanently.

Nor do I think it is right that the IDF kills innocent people.

IDF never targets bystanders. Unfortunately, every war bring collateral damage.
Palestinian Arabs, your favorite victims, target women and children specifically.

No, I am saying that there are many psychological factors exacerbated by oppression, leading those without a military to resort to terrorist acts.

This is much better. See Palestinian Child Abuse slide show in the upper right coner of this page. Please keep in mind that this slide show documents child abuse in public sphere only. Anthropologists agree (see, for instance Patai's Arab Mind) that Arabs beat thier children sh-tless. They also molest them. So if that's the kind of experiences you go through since the time you are born, what's waiting in line to cross a border then?

Btw, what's your opinion of the Great Wall of China? What it wrong of the Chinese to shield themselves of the murderous raids, too?

I noticed in #170 you answered questions with questions. It's intellectually dishonest. I suspect you did it because you have nothing to say.

I see the Morlock won't answer my questions about Germans and Poles, nor will he condemn suicide bombing targeting civilians without reservation or equivocation...

...waste of time to argue with someone who prefers to see Jews dead and Arabs living under tyranny, than to se Arabs have civil rights in Jewish Israel.

Well, as for me, personally, I think that when the Palestinians abjure terrorism, their legitimate grievances should be addressed, but not before then.

The Germans had legitimate grievances going into WWII, but that doesn't justify Nazism. Same with terrorism, as far as I'm concerned.

Answer me this: Are you interested in peace, or in crushing "the enemy" ... ?

Because the Palestinians have moved part and parcel into their own fantasy world, because an entire people worship a death cult as ghastly as the Thugee, and because the Palestinian understanding of 'peace' means 'kill lots of Israelis until they decide to pack up and go...where exactly?...no matter, just so long as they go away. Because to negotiate and beg and grovel and ingratiate yourself with people who only want you dead is not a noble political or moral position, but rather a symptom of a mental illness, I vote for crushing the enemy. If, by some miracle, the Palestinians can pull themselves up from the moral squalor they have wallowed in for the past half century, if they can understand that the Jews are not leaving, if they can, as PM Meir so succintly put it, love their children more than they hate Jews, I vote for peace.

...I only meant to highlite the word never in 212.

If you are going to post such malicious LIBEL, then I demand that you support your allegation in some way.

I never said "the Jews" are guilty of anything.

It's not that you said that Jews were guilty, but that you made it clear that the Jews are guilty of living. In #170 you blame all wars that Israel fought in her defense on Jews (please, drop this anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism bullsh-t, return to Israel is a cornerstone of Jewish identity, *anti-Zionist* Jews are freaks). If Jews have no right to defend themselves, then, you don't want us on this earth.

So, why don't the Palestininan's use Martin Luther King's tactics?

It's not as though they ever TRIED them, and they didn't work.

They never tried at all to settle this nonviolently.

Why doesn't SM go over there and lead them in non-violent resistance?

As long as SM isn't gay. Then he'll be tortured by the PA police, and likely killed by the populace...

"Unfortunately, every war bring collateral damage."

Whatever you choose to call the innocent people you're willing to murder instead of pursuing peace.

Dear Saskatchewan Morlock

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No, I am repeating what I have learned by studying the psychology behind such conflicts.

Are you serious? LOL.

Why would I "justify" terrorism?

I don't know why you would, I don't know you, but justifying terrorism is exactly what you're doing by trotting out the "poverty made me do it" shtick. There is no excuse for terrorism.

Answer me this: Are you interested in peace, or in crushing "the enemy" ... ?

I'm interested in peace. What are you interested in because it's certainly not the truth. You're out of your league here I'm afraid, we don't tolerate spin too well on this site.

Sir Morlock,

A very good series of questions was posed to you in post #196. Perhaps you could be kind enough to address them.

No, VeeBee, I don't know how you arrived at this particular conclusion from my comments, other than I'm challenging your beliefs, and you wish to demonize me.

Israel started this, or rather, the Zionists who came from Europe, and instead of coexisting with those who were already there, demanded a State of their own - to fulfill their political, economic, military, and geostrategic goals - instead of coexisting, as Jews were in this particular region before their arrival.

Again, the minority POLITICAL Movment called "Zionism" is not representative of the Jewsih Community.

"return to Israel is a cornerstone of Jewish identity"

I remind you that in Holy books, "Israel" is a state of being, not a piece of real estate.

Perhaps you should shut up for a moment and ponder what this means.

Proverbs 18:1

Might be the money quote:

No, I am repeating what I have learned by studying the psychology behind such conflicts.

So Morlock is studying something like Peace and Conflict studies at Cal. His (or her -- hey, let's be fully pc) professor has his (in rare cases her) career invested in this particular idea. Did it ever occur to you that your professor lies? Or that you don't get the full picture somehow? Did it ever occur to you that your high-minded studies are divorced from reality? How come your factual knowledge of anti-Semitism and Arab wars (angainst Jews, against other Arabs, against the West, against Africa, etc.) of the second half of the twentieth century is so limited? Why is it that you have nothing to say to Jews?

I don't want to see any more dead bodies - on EITHER side.

I don't believe this for a second. You deplore all forms of Jewish self-defense.

Answer me this: Are you interested in peace, or in crushing "the enemy" ... ?

You got to be kidding. Spoiled American kid who doesn't know pain and suffering is going to lecture Jews -- and many LGFers live in Israel where they and their families are constantly in danger -- on how to be compassionate with the enemy!
Is that the quote you'd give to Churchill? My answer is this: I am interested in peace, but to get peace, in this situation, as in WW2, we need to first crash the enemy. And what in the world is wrong with crashing the terror?

Dear Saskatchewan Morlock

On behalf of the LGF community, we kindly ask you to FOAD at the earliest opportunity. Thank you for your cooperation.

Signed,

John W.
FOAD Department

Again, the minority POLITICAL Movment called "Zionism" is not representative of the Jewsih Community.

Where do you get this from?

Perhaps you should shut up for a moment and ponder what this means.

I think you should take your own advice. You really have no idea what you're talking about and are making a complete ass of yourself.

#204, zulubaby,

your mention of cliches is quite appropriate. saskatchewan morlock thinks (so-to-speak) in cliches.

I remind you that in Holy books, "Israel" is a state of being, not a piece of real estate.

And there is some evidence of this, I suppose?

"State of Being"? is that like, karma or something dude?

/hippie-stoner humor

Still not answering the questions I've put to you in #196, Morlock.

Your refusal to do so lends further justiifcation to the hypothesis that you are a troll with no facts or argumetns to buttress your statements.

"I noticed in #170 you answered questions with questions. It's intellectually dishonest. I suspect you did it because you have nothing to say."

I noticed that while I answer questions, nobody answers mine.

I answered the way I did because this oft-posted collection is mostly Distraction and Disinformation, and that was the only intellectually honest way to address what was stated.

I remind you that in Holy books, "Israel" is a state of being, not a piece of real estate.

I'm a secular Jew, never read the Bible. I suspect that religious Jews will have a problem with this particular interpretation. To me Israel was always my heritage, my land, my people -- not necessarily in this order.

I'm challenging your beliefs

Congratulations! Feel better about yourself now? You are repeating the same old lies I heard growing up in the Soviet Union. I suggest you read all links LGFers posted. Then we'll talk.

Those question in 196 are irrelevant to this situation, and are a common Tactic of Disinformation posted by such proponents and defenders of Zionism.

I noticed that while I answer questions, nobody answers mine.

READ THE DAMN LINKS! That's your answer.

Morlock--I also studied psychology, but can you tell me why a bunch of muslim hoods from a university began to slaughter police this week unless they got their wish--a muslim craphole like you want for Israel. This whole terrorist thing has nothing to do with Israel and everything with a sick bunch of bastards wearing teatowels on their heads and threatening violence if we don't get on our knees, stick our assholes in the air, and praise allah.
{The attackers targeted police stations and took their weapons, chiefly AK-47 assault rifles, which they then used against security forces, Yobe state Police Chief Joseph Apapa told reporters Friday.
Some members retreated to a primary school in Kanamma, where they hoisted a flag bearing the word "Afghanistan."Fighting surged again on New Year's Eve, when Nigeria's government sent riot police reinforcements from outside Yobe state.As some civilians fled, one band of Al Sunna Wal Jamma fighters retreated to Damaturu, where they looted and burned a police station and a local government office.Militants there killed a police inspector "and engaged the police in a two-hour gunbattle," Jirigi said.That group fled to neighboring Borno state, taking one police officer with them. Army troops ambushed that faction and freed the captive officer, Jirigi said.Another band of militants fled to the border with Niger. Niger security forces stopped the fighters there, killing three of the militants.
Nigeria police spokesman Chris Olakpe said Saturday that police and soldiers had brought the remote northeast region under control.}

Then in Thailand they hope to establish a muslim state by also killing innocents.
JANUARY 04, 2004 08:34:06 AM ]
BANGKOK : Unidentified assailants set fire to 18 schools and stormed a military camp, killing four soldiers, in near simultaneous raids in southern Thailand Sunday, an official said. The attacks took place around the Muslim-dominated southern province of Narathiwat , said military spokesman Lt Gen Phalangun Krahan.
Assailants shot and killed four soldiers when they raided a military camp in Narathiwat, taking 103 assault rifles.

In Saudi Arabia they attacked poor Barbie, because they want to impose that muslim garbage worldwide. How dare Arabs demand equal rights for Pals in Israel and not be willing to allow those rights to non- muslims in Arab countries.
LONDON — Stick-wielding Saudi religious police were raiding toy stores and gift shops in the desert kingdom to seize anything related to the Western holiday season, including flowers, candles, stuffed animals, Barbie dolls and other items considered evil.
    The squads of police from the "Authority for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice" are targeting the New Year period, which is considered a non-Muslim festival, in an attempt to eliminate Western corrupting influences.
    The police have also announced on their Web site bans on any products with trademarks that resemble a cross, Star of David or Buddha statue.
Christ these idiots are afraid of a bloody doll--talk about an inferiority complex--with good reason, I might add. I have absolutely no sympathy for terrorists--and 0ver 80% of Palestinians are terrorists according to a poll . Kids who are used as shields and bomb throwers are not innocents. People who hide terrorists are not innocents. Cowards hiding behind kids make the kids targets. Pal kids are taught terrorism and hatred. They reap what they sow. Yes, I want peace--but I will be damned if I will wear a burka and chant the koran to get it.

Hmm. I don't remember reading in the Old Testament that Abraham and his posterity settled in a "state of being".

And somehow the Canaanites built cities there. Oddly enough, the Promised Land sounds like a real, physical locality...

Proverbs 18:1

"1: Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom."

Jews here will forgive me, an ex-Christian, for falling back on the KJV.

Hmmm, this semmeth to have no relevance to Israel being as "state of being" as opposed to a patch of ground. It does seem like something to keep in mind all the time, but it does not, in itself, constitue argument.

"Are you serious? LOL."

Yes, I am. There is a wealth of such information out there dealing with this very subject.

You should check it out if you care to truly understand what's going on, instead of regurgitating ignorant, hateful propaganda.

yup : more boneheaded cliches. make that dogmatic cliches. on third thought, boneheaded and dogmatic.

Morlock, my questions in #196 are quite relevant, because I am asking you

a) how you would decide an analogous case

b) to condemn terrorism against civlians.

Those questions are quite relevant and your failure to address them is symptomatic of trollery.

Now, you are whining about inconvenient questions when you were accusing some of us of the very same thing.

Answer the questions, Morlock.

How do you decide the case when it does not involve Jews, but different ethnic groups?

Why won'y you condemn suicide bombing against civlians without reservation or equivocation?

Those question in 196 are irrelevant to this situation, and are a common Tactic of Disinformation posted by such proponents and defenders of Zionism.

Translation:

"I'm not listening! Nyah Nyah! I can't heeeaaar yoooouuuu!"

Pathetic. It is a very simple list of questions, containing a similar historical situation in regards to a people that had been displaced from their lands. I know you don't want to think about it because that might upset the delicate balance of your anti-Semetic echo chamber.
Lots of peoples have been displaced via war over the course or human history, but only the Palistinians have given themselves over whole-heartedly to savagery as a response. I would like to apologize, Morlock. You are not a troll, nor crazy, nor an asshat. You are simply a coward. FOAD.

... common Tactic of Disinformation posted by such proponents and defenders of Zionism.

Tell me this twit doesn't sound like he's been trained by the Palestinian Propaganda Machine.

What, by the way, is wrong with Zionism? He spits it out like it's a dirty word.

"I don't believe this for a second. You deplore all forms of Jewish self-defense."

What gave you this idea?

Apparently, you have not read what I have written, merely responded to a caricature that's been burned into your head about what your "opponents" think and believe.

I criticise Zionist AGGRESSION, which has nothing to do with "Jewish self-defense".

For the second time:

Morlock, my questions in #196 are quite relevant, because I am asking you

a) how you would decide an analogous case

b) to condemn terrorism against civlians.

Those questions are quite relevant and your failure to address them is symptomatic of trollery.

Now, you are whining about inconvenient questions when you were accusing some of us of the very same thing.

Answer the questions, Morlock.

How do you decide the case when it does not involve Jews, but different ethnic groups?

Why won'y you condemn suicide bombing against civlians without reservation or equivocation?

Proverbs 18:6-7

A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

YOUR (virtual) lips are telling us quite a bit about the state of your soul.

Answer, Morlock.

You should check it out if you care to truly understand what's going on, instead of regurgitating ignorant, hateful propaganda.

Um, I probably know a little more than you do on this subject and, unlike you, I deal with history, facts and the truth. You're a liar and you're spreading disinformation (your second favourite word, with libel being your favourite.)

I care about the the situation in Israel a great deal for several reasons starting with my being a Jew and a lot of very important people in my life living there. What's your interest besides your irrational Jew hatred?

I criticise Zionist AGGRESSION, which has nothing to do with "Jewish self-defense".

Really? Explain please.

"a muslim craphole like you want for Israel."

Is all you people are capable of, addressing caricatures which ASSuME to know what I, and individual, think?

I'm not too surprised, given your limited sources ...

Yeah, I like Palestinians, I just hate islamism or muslimism--everywhere.

I'm not too surprised, given your limited sources ...

And your sources are ... ? Lemme guess! Electronicintifada and ISM?

For the third time:

Morlock, my questions in #196 are quite relevant, because I am asking you

a) how you would decide an analogous case

b) to condemn terrorism against civlians.

Those questions are quite relevant and your failure to address them is symptomatic of trollery.

Now, you are whining about inconvenient questions when you were accusing some of us of the very same thing.

Answer the questions, Morlock.

How do you decide the case when it does not involve Jews, but different ethnic groups?

Why won'y you condemn suicide bombing against civlians without reservation or equivocation?

Proverbs 18:6-7

A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

YOUR (virtual) lips are telling us quite a bit about the state of your soul.

Answer, Morlock.

Your reluctance is VERY telling now.

You have been defeated, Morlock. I've asked you questions you can't answer without betraying yourself fro the nasty little Jew-hater you are.

Morlock

The magic number right now is 196. That is the number of the post with some very topical questions for you. They were posed to you at 11:33AM PST. You've had ample time to come up with a response.

Something like 2 million ethnic Germans from the Sudentenland were deported to Germany proper after WWII. Many more were sent from Poland and other countries. Do these people or their descendants have a 'right of return'? Should they get their homes back? Should they be compensated? Why didn't these people respond like the Palestinians did?

Are you capable of making a clear and unambiguous statement that the deliberate targeting of civilians that is the hallmark of your precious intifadah, or "fourth generation warfare' as you put it, is Terrorism, is morally repugnant, and is never justified under any circumstances. The questions couldn't be more germane to the discussion at hand.

He won't ever answer those questions I put in #196.

His answers would show him for a Jew-hater.

There is no analogous situation. This one is unique.
Why can't you stay on-topic?

I have condemned terrorism throughout my posts here.

Your responses show you to be a LIBELLIST, afraid to engage in serious debate with anyone who doesn't toe your particular small-minded view of the world.

Morlock, it would be no trouble for you to condemn terrorism again, the way we ask.

Quit equivocating and answer, Jew-hater.

If the situation in Palesitne is unique, prove it by answering the questions I've posed. In your answers you can explain why the analogy doesn't apply.

But you won't answer, Jew-hater.

There is no analogous situation. This one is unique.

The legitimacy or lack thereof of claims to the land of previous peoples who have been dislocated by war is not analogous to the Palestinians now? Do tell!

I have condemned terrorism throughout my posts here.

Arafish condems terrorism all the time. He just doesn't include Hamas blowing up school children as coming under the definition of 'terrorism'.

Answer the questions please.

I'll tell you waht you are afraid to tell us, Jew-hater.

You thinkthe situtation in Palestine is unique BECAUSE JEWS ARE INVOLVED.

If you answer my questions and explain otherwise, I will withdraw my statements that you are a Jew-hater.

But if you keep obfusticating and equivocating, rather than answer simple, direct questions, what are people supposed to think?

Your responses show you to be a LIBELLIST, afraid to engage in serious debate with anyone who doesn't toe your particular small-minded view of the world.

Then answer the questions posed in post #196, so that I might better 'engage in serious debate' with you.

:-)

sm: more dimwitted boneheaded cliches

Your responses show you to be a LIBELLIST

Blah, blah, blah.

dimwitted boneheaded cliches

...is what passes for a modern Western university education these days.

I am now taking my leave of you.

I have addressed the LIBELLISTS and Disinformation Artists for what they were. I even gave the Libellist the opportunity to support her allegations, but just as I thought, none came.

I truly wish you all the best, despite the inevitable jerk session which will result after I leave.

Don't worry, I'll return in a couple of days.

You might want to do some reading in the meantime - something other than Front Page Magazine - too much of that hateful, revisionist garbage'll rot yer brains.

#258, Spiny Norman,

Yeah. Unfortunately true for many, but luckily, not quite all.

Morlock

Don't worry, I'll return in a couple of days.

And I'll be there to ask you again to answer the questions marked in post #196.

Ma' salaama dear child! I look forward to another engaging and spirited round of you slinking away...

:-)

Ladies and gentlemen (excluding the Jew-hater of course), I would suggest that we ask Morlock those questions again, when next he returns.

I will be waiting.

I am now taking my leave of you.

Thank G-d! It's enough already with this Propaganda Parrot.

sm: "I truly wish you all the best"

heh. another cliche.

There is no analogous situation. This one is unique.

Reminds me of the quote (can't be bothered to find the details) of a high-up at Harvard many years ago saying they couldn't let in too many Jews because Jews cheat.

"Other people cheat, too," he was reminded.

"Don't change the subject, we're talking about Jews."

BTW, I hereby make a cba prescient comment, based on Saskatchewan Morlock's #259, posted at 1:06 PM PST:

I am now taking my leave of you.

An hour or two. Mark my words, an hour or two.

del (#264)

heh. another cliche.

And lie.

I can't believe he left without giving us the "Peace" sign-off! I'm hurt.

LIBELLISTS and Disinformation Artists

Please use your time away to expand your vocabulary. I'm sure ISM can give you a few pointers ...

#266 zulubaby,

you wrote:

And lie.

I can't believe he left without giving us the "Peace" sign-off! I'm hurt.

I agree on all counts :-)

Hmm. Maybe I'm not so prescient this time.

How peculiar! A troll who says he's going to leave and then does so.

A troll who says he's going to leave and then does so.

The swarming Lizardroid minions scared the dear child away. Probably nursing his wounds at Aidemydni right now...

We should all resolve to be more gentle with those trolls of a more, ahem, delicate nature.

/sarcasm

He who trolls and runs away
lives to troll another day.

Now, what was that LGF Prayer all about? I can barely hear it over the roar of American Symphony.

Do you know the name of this "palestinian doctor"?

She was staying with a Palestinian doctor and his family and protecting his home in the sense that she was "protecting" all the homes on the block, but the targets of the bulldozers were not the occupied homes but the ones being used for smuggling and the scrub-brush that could hide smugglers.

She was unintentionally hit with the bulldozer blade, but was not run over, or - as as been pointed out - there would be nothing left of her.

I've found the story I was talking about, in an article by Alan Dershowitz:

Our visitor would be perplexed to hear the excuses made by university professors and students for why they are prepared to delegitimize Israel while remaining silent about the far worse abuses committed by other countries. If he were to ask a student about the abuses committed by other countries, he would be told (as I have been): "You're changing the subject. We're talking about Israel now."

This reminds me of an incident from the 1920s involving then-Harvard president A. Lawrence Lowell. Lowell decided that the number of Jews admitted to Harvard should be reduced because "Jews cheat." When a distinguished alumnus, Judge Learned Hand, pointed out that Protestants also cheat, Lowell responded, "You're changing the subject; we're talking about Jews."

I wonder if Morlock was a differnent incarnation of Kevin who was posting on another thread.

Mar (#274)

I had the same thought. They seem awfully similar, don't they?

No, I don't think so--and not just because SM made a liar of me :-)

Kevin, although brainwashed and naive (both on yesterday's thread and on the Palestinian NGO thread), wasn't out and out nasty; SM was. [BTW, Kev has learned how to Quote.]