Whitewashing Islam.How predictable.

OT: Here is another british 'academic' and ex IRA murderer concerned that Zionists will hijack Holocaust Day

[Link: observer.guardian.co.uk...]

Charles - I'm a bit confused by your intro. You seem to be attacking people who are on our side. Can you clarify?

Oh, BTW - phoerst!

Sorry, should have been -

"Thoerd!"

Umm... is it alternate dimension Saturday and no one informed me? Seriously, today is just one of those days that brings hope to my heart that Western Civilization isn't completely consigned to the trashbin of history in the next hundred years.

Hold on a sec... by reading the article its easy to see that the Idiotarian here is the DIRECTOR... not the Uni-prof's. The academics are protesting the stupidity of PC history twisting. Shouldnt we be on their side? The title of this post seems to imply that whiney uber libs in higher education are once again pandering to islam-o-fascists and slamming western culture, when its real Mr Scott who is doing that.

How dare the academics interfere with creative process of Sir Ridley.

He has his right as an artist to express his "vision of reality", hasn't he. It's not about historic accuracy, it's about freedom of expression, no?

I'm not attacking the critics -- just suffering from an overdose of irony, I guess.

Like others, I'm surprised at which side the academics are on. And for the most part, anyone who automatically imagined, after reading Charles's post, that they were not on "our" side needs to have that jerking knee looked at.

But I'll point out that you used "seething" in your title, Charles, a word you usually reserve for a completely different group.

Good to see,but they're all just trying to get in on the VDH groupie train.

no it panders to islam reread it if u have to the muslim invaders crushed the christans (templars) then the jews and any others

I'm so confused.

Sir Ridley Scott, the Oscar-nominated director, was savaged by senior British academics last night over his forthcoming film which they say “distorts” the history of the Crusades to portray Arabs in a favourable light.

And then ...

Academics, however - including Professor Jonathan Riley-Smith, Britain’s leading authority on the Crusades - attacked the plot of Kingdom of Heaven, describing it as “rubbish”, “ridiculous”, “complete fiction” and “dangerous to Arab relations”.

What am I missing? What are they upset about? I thought they loved when the Arabs are portrayed favourably.

Charles, what's wrong with you? That intro totally threw me through a loop (is that the expression?).

This is another scary example of dhimmitude on the part of Ridley Scott that could have far reaching and extremely damaging propaganda consequences. That should be pointed out - 'exposed' as we used to say when we were hardcore leftwingers - in the clearest possible terms.

ok the movie sucks but the critics dont ok thats why i was confused and in the movie mo's devils are the good guy ok

Charles -

Phwew - you scared me. Though perhaps I was more confused by Mr. Scott's seemingly ambiguous "dangerous to Arab relations" comment.

They used...sarcasm...
Victim of the Pirhana Brothers, Monty Python

#12 zulubaby

As I understand it Riley-Smith considers the movie "dangerous to Arab relations" because it reinforces and legitamizes the radical islamist view of history and therefore strenghens the Arab position against the West. That's how bad this is. Judging from the information about the movie the article gives I agree.

"It's trying to be fair and we hope that the Muslim world sees the rectification of history."

maybe more like : It's trying to distort history and we hope that the Muslims won't explode themselves

Elle Plater (#2)

That article just did me in. I've had all the Jew-hatred I can take for one day.

A former IRA bomber who is prominent in pro-Palestinian circles has denounced Belfast's Holocaust memorial day, claiming that it was being used to justify Israel's existence.

WTF??

This is bad, bad, bad news. Expect lots of young impressionable Western teen-agers to convert to Islam after seeing this film. That's the effect that "Malcom X" had more than a decade ago.

Really, really bad news.

Peter Verkooijen (#16)

Thanks for trying to explain it to me but I still don't quite understand. I'm wiped out and probably a little slow on the uptake right now.

Personally I think we in the West should point out that Saladin was a Kurd. That'll piss off the Arabs.

What am I missing? What are they upset about? I thought they loved when the Arabs are portrayed favourably.

Most confusing! LOL

check the grassy knoll...

Oy, Sir Ridley - mighty disappointing. Perhaps a trip to Iran is in order so that you may find your creative muse.

Yet another reminder: the apparent fictionalization of fellowship between Jews, Christians and muslims that Ridley Scott is presenting in his celuloid dhimmist exercise, is Bush government policy. In David Frum's insider book - "The Right Man" - he tells how the oil-patch-brat gathered nominally fellow Abrahamites - Jews, Christians and muslipigs - in the Oval Office, and informed them that he would be nothing but a lost "alcoholic" if he did not embrace their alleged common faith.

GWB is immune to learning of muslim pejorative concerning the alleged "satanic distortions" of "islam" - which was supposedly first revealed to Abraham, the "first muslim" - that are attributed to Jewish and Christian texts. There have been several incidents where prominent Christians have attempted to give copies of the New Testament to muslim clerics, only to be refused. Either GWB is being shielded from the truth of inherent muslim hostility to Jews and Christians, or he has no common sense. You decide:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
[Link: www.islam.org.au...]

THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF MUSLIMS: ACTUAL AND POTENTIAL JIHADI KILLERS, THEREFORE THEY ARE ALL ENEMIES.

Frank IBC

They used...sarcasm...

Dinsdale?

Charles, what are you talking about, dude? Have you suddenly done a Cat Stevens on us?

ralph (#21),

Personally I think we in the West should point out that Saladin was a Kurd. That'll piss off the Arabs.

Yes, especially if they know this:

the Jews and the Kurds share common ancient forefathers, who lived in the northern part of the Fertile Crescent (a part of contemporary Iraq and Syria). Some moved southward in pre-historic times and settled along the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. The researchers say that they were surprised to find that the Jews were closer genetically to the Kurds (and to the Turks) than to their Arab neighbors.

Which might explain why Saladin was so successful.

OT -- Study Says Iraq Insurgents Use Advanced Weapons -NYT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Iraqi guerrillas are using increasingly sophisticated weapons and tactics to attack U.S. aircraft, according to a classified Army study on the downing of helicopters in Iraq, The New York Times reported in Sunday editions.

Hey lay off the lizard king. Try digging through heaps of AP drivel day after day without it coloring your speach patterns, then come back.
I'm sure you will be "seething" a bit also.

I'm still waiting for that Mohommad bio pic that has never been made by our brave and nobel truth tellers in Hollywood or elsewhere.

Talking of Python, this movie seems to follow the image of the crusades put forward by Terry Jones (Doug or Dinsdale?) in his TV show of the same name. The show started with the following quote:

"900 years ago the Christians of Europe began a war to conquer the world in the name of Christ. The center of that world was Jerusalem."

Well, according to

historian Thomas Madden

The crusades were in every way a defensive war. They were the West's belated response to the Muslim conquest of fully two-thirds of the Christian world. While the Arabs were busy in the seventh through the tenth centuries winning an opulent and sophisticated empire, Europe was defending itself against outside invaders and then digging out from the mess they left behind. Only in the eleventh century were Europeans able to take much notice of the East. The event that led to the crusades was the Turkish conquest of most of Christian Asia Minor (modern Turkey). The Christian emperor in Constantinople, faced with the loss of half of his empire, appealed for help to the rude but energetic Europeans.

Still, as the old saying goes, history is written by the victors, and Madden's view of the Crusades is not the one currently held by many outside of academic circles.

Let's face it.

The Crusades were not a totally holy thing. People got raped, pillaged and murdered because of their religions, it doesnt matter which ones. Jews suffered just as much as Arabs.

Men run religions. Men run wars. Sometimes they get the two all balled up and then its a real mess. That was the case with the Crusades. One hand on the genitalia, the other on the sword (or trigger).

Guys like to fight. That's why we have professional sports like football and hockey. Cut the cord, slap the baseball hat on their head or put the hockey stick in their hand. Its genetic.

Thats why in most Middle Eastern religions the women are subservient.

In medieval Scandinavia the wives of the chiefs had status. They were the healers, the settlers of disputes, decision makers while their husbands were away making war. They ran the estates. They were the real home power, the men could not have done without them. And the men respected them, did not treat them as beneath them.

Until the priests came.

In the British Isles, the ancient ways were also supplanted by Christianity. That all got watered down when the Judeo-Christian influence took hold. Women were to become subservient to men, as St. Paul preached. Women of Northern Europe lost their freedom for centuries. As did the women of the rest of the modern world.

I know I may get a lot of flack for my perspective. But its historically correct. Monotheistic desert religions tend to like to keep women down.

One nation, under God, but dont pass the Equal Rights Amendment.
Hey, its halftime, pass the barbecue, honey.

Not good news. A revision of history to the advantage of the radicals. It needs to be noted, if after the film comes out and causes violence the perpetrators of the film need to hauled up on charges. This has not been a good day newswise. The air seems to be heavy with sadness and loss.

rest assured that centuries of islamic attacks on the west [iberian peninsula] holy roman empire [sicily even rome itself] and eastern roman empire [byzantium] resulting in belated defensive counter-attacks by christiandom[the seljuk turks were after constantinople yet again] will not be a sub-plot in this camelshit movie

OT -- Large Explosion Rocks Central Baghdad-Witnesses

BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) - A powerful blast rocked central Baghdad early Sunday, rattling windows and shaking the ground near an area where the U.S. military and international organizations are based.

There were no immediate reports of any injuries and it was not clear what the target of the attack was.

Got PMS Julia?

Academics against revisionist history?
Ned, where's the airborne ham photo?

maybe some jihadi should run a blade through ridley-scott--maybe then he'll get the point

#30 - Papertiger

I'm still waiting for that Mohommad bio pic that has never been made by our brave and nobel truth tellers in Hollywood or elsewhere.

Here it is: The animation released last year - Muhammad, The Last Prophet

Nobody will make a movie today in which Muslims are bad guys. This is P.C. gone nuts. Case in point - in the Clancy book The Sum of All Fears, the nuclear terrorists are Muslims (with a variety of other fanatics thrown in). In the movie, the bad guys are white supremacists.

Christ, if Hollywood ever makes a movie of 9/11, all the Saudi hijackers will be white men.

OT -- the woman who committed the suicide attack at the Erez checkpoint was indeed driven to do so to purify her family honor. Turns out she had a lover. Her husband encouraged her to commit suicide and her lover gave her the explosive belt. It's in today's Hebrew press.

Im confused! Are the fuckin terrorists winning or the French? Is it winnable?

(Sigh) It's been a long day. Had to read the article a couple of times to get the story straight - Riley-Smith, Ridley-Scott - all a bit confusing.
Attacks on the truth are definitely escalating. Sad to say, lots of impressionable young girls wil flock to this travesty as Orlando Bloom is a huge drawcard. They went wild over him as Legolas in LOTR.

The only cheering note is that academics have noticed and are actually objecting. This is quite significant; perhaps if the Muslim apologists and spindoctors have enough rope ....

Yay! It'll be just like Blade Runner but with less robots and more stupidity!

/gag

Just when I think I've seen everything ...

Somebody save these children!

A Palestinian boy in the West Bank town of Jenin chains himself during a protest demanding the release of Palestinian prisoners jailed in Israel January 17, 2004. REUTERS/Saeed Dahlah

Reuters telling LIES again!!

#45 zulubaby

Chains himself?? I rather doubt it.

#32

Funny...sounds like a line from a fem Nazi camp claiming oppression from men for so long all the while claiming "we can do anything you can do". I hear this all the time. I live with 3 women who are all "independent", but when it comes to fixing shit they break when they are piss ass drunk they don't mind me being the "man".

All in good fun.

#9 Angie Schultz

Like others, I'm surprised at which side the academics are on.

Well, I am too familiar with academia to hold it in high regard, but I have to point out that much of academic stance is a result of editorial decisions and political mendling from outside academia. So I am not surprised that academics are voicing out their objections to Sir Ridley's attempts of presenting his "view of reality". I shall not be surprised, though, if there will also be opportunist academics trying to capitalise on the publicity given to the film to advance themselves. After all, historic revisionism is nowdays in vogue, no?

I also suspect that current controversy is a PR stance on behalf of Hollywood. The film only started shooting last week and we are already talking about it. Hmmmm....

You do realize we're talking about the same director that kept referring to the Gladiator as "the Spaniard" a good 12-13 centuries before the word was introduced?

Historically accurate? Riiiight.

Where's the outrage from Western child welfare agencies? Not a peep from any of them, of course. Do they truly believe that any child would understand the issues and willingly take part in demonstations of this kind? Imagine if any other country in the world paraded their children in this way - no you can't imagine it. It seems to be a sick peculiarity of the Palestinians. Nothing, absolutely nothing, justifies this appalling treatment of little children.

#49

Interesting point...that never dawned on me. Just like the arrow on the FedEx truck. Perhaps I should sign up for that class that teaches you how to spot such things.

Monotheistic desert religions tend to like to keep women down.

Right. That's why Jewish men chant A Woman of Valor to their wives every Shabbat, why they have an obligation to sexually satisfy their wives, why the marriage contract stipulated how much the husband should pay his wife if he divorces her, and why Jewish women ran the business while the husband studied.

Massive car bomb explosion in Baghdad near gate to Green Zone coalition HQ area.
Fox News reports six Iraqis killed, no U.S. casualties, according to coalition source.

Fox News reports Reuters says now as many as 15 Iraqis killed, possibly 1 U.S. slightly wounded, Iraqi National guaurdsman wounded.

From Ha'aretz:

German magazine: Palestinian group tied to Al-Qaida planning to attack Jewish targets

I would love to see specific links between the "poor Palestinians" and al-Qaida. Perhaps then people will see the Palestinians for the terrorists that they are.

JULIA THE HORRIBLE

Men may fight wars (most don't want to do it) but women seen to have no qualms about enjoying the fruits of those wars

By the way, ever hear of Boudicca the Warrior Queen of ancient England

AP story on Baghdad blast reports that the bomb was set off near the "Assasin's Gate" to Saddam's former palace complex. Fox reported that the blast was in the intersection 50 yds. ahead of the gate, in an area where Iraqis congregated to enter the coalition HQ area for jobs and coalition business. Fox confirms 15 Iraqi fatalities.

The problem with the crusades is that making a historically accurate movie would be a lousy movie. The fact of the matter is the good guys lost, despite their sacrifice, and the muslim hordes kept on attacking (as they always do) up to the gates of vienna.

The only way to do a crusades movie is to portray the crusaders as invading and the heroic saladin saving his people. no other way. So there is no hope here. The reality, a desperate union of christian states to mount a counter offensive against the muslim hordes can't be told because they lose.

The lord of the rings is essentially the history of the crusades told where the good guys win. Its fiction and so is this ridley scott movie.

This doesn't surprise me in the least. Ridley Scott is not exactly known for respecting history.

In Gladiator he made it seem that, if only the Romans conquered "Germania", there would be peace throughout the empire. And then the Romans went and accomplished this laudable goal.

In reality the Germanic tribes handed the Romans' asses back to them, horribly and incontrovertibly, so much so, that the Germanic territories were designated a no-man's-land; the Romans did their best to seal the borders against them, and that was that.

I remember in history class at my university learning something about one of the emperors forbidding the mention of a particular number in his presence---that number being the designation of one of the legions that were utterly wiped out by the Germans, but I can't recall at the moment which one it is (any help, minions?). The Germanic tribes were savages.

I think this is not only Ridley Scott's dhimmitude busting out, it's his mea culpa for "offending" so many Muslims and his fellow L³ with Black Hawk Down (do you guys remember the howls of "racism!" that accompanied that showing?)

If the allegations are true and Scott doesn't correct the error I won't be coughing up the nine bucks at the theater.

Fox News now confirms that 18 Iraqis civilians known killed, two U.S. wounded (1 soldier, 1 civilian), 20+ Iraqi civilians wounded, 1 Iraqi guardsman wounded.

#47 Jacob

Im sorry if you have drunk incompetent women about you - perhaps you hang out with the wrong women.

#52 Yehudit -

I know about that obligatory practice, by the way. It is similar to why the Muslim guys have to pray 5 times a day.

It is because the men have had the OPPORTUNITY to sin all the more frequently than the women, because the women were essentially in bondage with the household duties.

--- And I resent being compared to a Nazi. People of Scandinavian extraction who value their ancestry are not neoNazis. That was a pretty ignorant and cheap comment.

I can see that any mention of the gross behaviors of men toward women in the name of religion may as well have a burka thrown over it here.

To # 60......

I took many of these courses in General Studies and my Humanities faculty and I know of which you are referring too....

Off the top of my head, it was either in Suetonius or Tacitus that the author referred to Augustus who was forever haunted by completely losing 3 whole legions under the command of Quinctilius Varus.....

It was said that wandered the halls of home crying....
"Varus, give me back my legions".........indeed there is talk of a major motion picture of this epic event in the Teutoberg Forest of 9 AD...........

It seems even then, the Hun knew how to fight!!!

And I don't mean that as any disrespect.

As for the number of which specific legions, dig into Suetonius or Tacitus or Google to find the specific numbers...

Thanks

The problem with the crusades is that making a historically accurate movie would be a lousy movie. The fact of the matter is the good guys lost, despite their sacrifice, and the muslim hordes kept on attacking (as they always do) up to the gates of vienna.

And you'd have to show the "good guys" massacring Jews and "heretic" Christians all along their path of march, and that would be such a drag.

This article is the lead article in the Long Island/New York City newspaper (owned by the LA Times) Newsday. It is so vile and inaccruate; I wish Charles would post this on LGF and possibly have someone more articulate than I am write to Newsday to counter this complete rubbish.

Shame on the idiotic writer Matthew McAllester--he must have a smooth brain or something because he really got the whole story wrong. He counters Palestinian anti-Semitism by writing (in the end of the article) about ISM member Laura Gordon, an American Jew who lives in Gaza. He states that if the Palis were really out to kill all the Jews, then she would have been killed--that they really don't want to kill all the Jews (but doesn't imply that they only want to kill Jews who aren't useful idiots).

Here is the link to the article--
Newsday article/excuse for Palestinian anti-semitism--this is just outrageous!

I am also going to quote some of the most outrageous aspects of the article here.....I think I will go and puke now!

The current technological imbalance -- Israel has a nuclear deterrent, the Palestinians' most lethal weapon is suicide bombers -- means that Palestinians and other Muslims do not now threaten the existence of Israel as the Nazis once did Jews in Europe

------------------------------
MY COMMENT: Please tell me, Mr. McAllester--when was the last time that Israel used a nuclear bomb on Palestinians????

"The Islamic religion encourages us to respect the Jewish religion as one revealed from heaven," said Emad Hamed, 15, a never-shaved boy with a prematurely serious air about him. "It's possible that there are good Jews outside ," he theorized, "but they're not in the majority."

Told about the Holocaust, the boys looked upset. "I will never support people like that," Hamed said of the Nazis. "They killed innocent people ... They destroyed human dignity."

MY COMMENT: I wonder if this young Pali would ever support suicide bombers who kill innocent people. Do they destroy human dignity?

In Rafah, there is a Jew among the Palestinians.

"I love my religion this much," said Laura Gordon, 21, stretching her arms wide. They were covered in the traditional robe of an observant Muslim Palestinian woman. She wears the robe, and a tightly wound head scarf, out of respect for the conservative society where she lives.

Gordon has been working in Rafah for nine months as a peace activist, trying to protect the Palestinian residents from the Israeli army, which patrols the border with Egypt at the camp's edge. She is short, smiles a lot and is a walking example to her neighbors of how, after all, Jews can be as caring and warm as anyone else in the world. She is so loved in the camp that Palestinian parents often try to get her to marry their sons, even though they know she is a Jew.

She could be seen as a one-woman intersection for the historical and political currents of the Middle East and Europe: Her great uncle survived the Holocaust in Poland; she once worked for an Israeli group that looks after victims of terrorism; she has learned Arabic; she has faced anti-Semitic slurs in Gaza; she is anti-Zionist; she says that when Israeli soldiers shoot into Rafah, she feels it is her brothers who are shooting. To some, Gordon could be seen as evidence that even the most radical Palestinians do not, after all, want to kill all the Jews. Rafah is full of Hamas activists who could make an easy kill of her but have not done so.

MY COMMENT Obviously, Mr. McAllester has no idea how Ms. Gordon is being used by the Palis and also that she is involved in terrorism as she is part of ISM.

I really hope that people contact Newsday. This article is an outrage and Mr. McAllester (I believe he is British...what a surprise) should be dismissed from the newspaper and maybe find a job at Al-Jazeera or Al-BBC.

To # 59.........

The Legions were 17, 18 and 19......or as the Romans preferred............Legio XVII, Legio XVIII and Legio XIX ....

This singular event forever changed Roman and European History!

I don't have time to look it up--I believe it's in The Oxford History of the Crusades--but it was a long time before the Arabs stop referring (amongst themselves) to the Crusaders as the Greeks, thinking they were from Constantinople. The more (but barely) accurate "Franks" did not catch on until later. Shows a lot of worldly wisdom if they didn't even care to find out who was really attacking them.

And let's not forget their own "Crusade," in which they went out and conquered a hell of a lot more in the name of Islam.

And, let's face it, the Arabs were giving people on pilgrimages a hard time, which, arguably, they still do.

#59 Tasty Beverage:

The Battle of Tutoberg Forrest, 9 AD, in the reign of Augustus. In my high school Latin class, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, one of the passages we had to translate was something about this battle. Creasy lists it as one of his 15 Decisive Battles. All I remember about it was that the Roman General was named Varus. When Emperor Augustus got the news, he said, "O Varus, Varus, give me back my legions!"
No, don't ask me how the original Latin went. I remember, "O Vare, Vare......." I don't remember anything about an unlucky number. This Tutoberg Forrest was somewhere in southwest Germany, Baden-Baden or Bavaria. The Romans, of course, had better luck with the surrender monkeys.

I know about that obligatory practice, by the way. It is similar to why the Muslim guys have to pray 5 times a day. It is because the men have had the OPPORTUNITY to sin all the more frequently than the women, because the women were essentially in bondage with the household duties.

Not sure which practice you are referring to - I mentioned several. If it's sex, also, marital rape is and always was against Jewish law.

About household duties: until a few hundred years ago, running a household took a lot of physical exertion and required many specific skills (the "Woman of Valor" proverb mentions some of them). Jewish women, Scandanavian women, pretty much any woman who was head of a household was a formidable person. I'm sure Arab women too. Yes, gender roles were much stricter and women were restricted in many ways by pregnancy and childbirth, but the term "housewife" didn't mean what it means today.

And men were also in bondage to their jobs - most of them simply did what their fathers did, or were sold as apprentices in a trade. Very few people got to choose their professions. Most were serfs. Men had more freedom of movement and political power for sure, but nobody was all that "free." Within that type of society, Jewish women had more rights than in many societies.

It's ironic, because Muslim women have more rights - on paper - than Jewish women (by traditional law anyway). But in practice, Jewish women have almost always had more rights than Muslim women.

#62 #65 Albertadude
#67 Bay Area Hawk

Thanks---I've commented before about my university history education being pathetically L³, but I knew that that detail about the Romans was legit because there were names and dates involved, etc., and now I have search terms (!) thanks to you.

Again, I believe this is Ridley-Scott's mea culpa to his Overlords in the Ummah and Western college campuses------the crocodile is angry. Black Hawk Down hit a little too close to home. (And that was a fine movie IMHO).

'Night minions.

Exactly right, Tasty Beverage

The Islamic world whined and seethed about Scott's portrayal of the Muslim Somalis in "Blackhawk Down", though it was actually something of a whitewash to those who knew the truth.

Perhaps this cinematic revival of Walter Scott's discredited neo-romantic portrayal is an attempt to make amends to the exquisitely sensitive advocates of suicide bombing.

OT

It pains me to post this, but it appears that Norman Finkelstein has some new allegations against Dershowitz.

What does everyone make of this?

Mein Gott! Lefty professors protesting Sir Ridley's revisionist history of the Crusades, thus pandering to Osama Bin Laden? What next! The BBC praises Sharon's "wall" and decries Arafat's Al-Aqsa Brigades as aiding Islamofascism?

I need an aspirin--make that a Zoloft!

Since Michael Jackson has joined the Moonbat Pedophile Religion of Piece of Young Boys Ass, I would present the following:
The unofficial first draft of Beat It, by Michael Jackson:
(sung to the tune of Michael Jackson's "Beat It;"

"How come you're such a horny young man?
Everyone can see your dick is in your hand,
well, how you keep it up, I just don't understand;
You Beat It, Just Beat It."

"Everybody wonders why your wrist is so loose,
you say your double-jointed but that's no excuse,
I don't know how your dick can sustain all this abuse; you Beat It, Just Beat It."

(chorus)
"Beat It, Beat It,
I think that if you could you'd eat it,
Grab it with your fingers, close your hand tight,
I think that if you could, you'd beat it all night,
You Beat It, You Beat It"
(end chorus)

"I saw you the other night at the school dance,
everyone could see your hands were in your pants,
you're asking girls for dates but haven't got a chance 'cause you Beat It, You Beat It,"
(Chorus)
(repeat Chorus..fade)
The Markman

Evan,

I can't say I'm actually too insterested in their personal squabble (and I see it as just that, not an actual critique of the facts of the book). Here's some good info on it if you're so inclined.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

#73 Markman:

D'uh...BEAT IT! You're in the wrong blog.

71 Evan

It pains me to post this, but it appears that Norman Finkelstein has some new allegations against Dershowitz.

What does everyone make of this?

Well, a controversy about historiy is to a large degree a subject 0of this thread, so you are not that much OT.

Finkelstein's original allegations against Dershowitz were that Dershowitz plagiarised from Joan Petters book, here sources to be precise. These accusations were a bull, because academics use reference from the reputable sources all the time, and to single out one of academics (in this case Alan Dershowitz) for this habit is vile, and actually stupid as pissing against the wind, tho' such kind of "arguments" might appeal to uninformed reader.

IMO, Finkelstein is dispereately looking for publicity rather than for viable discourse. He is an ideological opportunist rather than serious historian, and he gets more attention from his ideological peers than from his academic ones, AFAIK.

Sec,

Yeah, I've seen that. A nice overview. I agree that their "dialogue" is getting old in the tooth. It is almost as if Finkelstein has a personal vendetta against Dersh.

76,

Nicely put.

OT: Iraqi plan for Sharia law 'a sop to clerics', say women

[Link: news.ft.com...]

pardon me while I gnash my teeth

I'm waiting for Hollywood to commission a film about Fraxenetum, the arab's slave port near St. Tropez in southern france (lower case intententional).

Four one hundred years, arab invaders scoured the countryside from this base, kidnapping thousands upon thousands of french men, women, and children.

Want to know why the "Franks" hated the Arabs? The Crusades were proclaimed in Avignon two hundred years after the arabs were driven out. They were looking for revenge, and they got it.

By the way, the term for Greeks that the Arabs used was Rom, or Romans.

A little OT but good news: Bush still gets it.

Cheney said the administration has concluded that no progress can be made in resolving the dispute so long as Arafat is in control of the Palestinian Authority. "The difficulty we have – and it is a continuing problem – is that after years of effort, it's become clear that as long as Yasser Arafat is the interlocutor on behalf of the Palestinians, as long as he is in control, we think any serious progress is virtually impossible," Cheney said.

Now he just has to tell Tony Blair. . . . .

#35 Julia the Horrible

So everything would be hunky dory if we all imitated the Vikings?

When can I join up for my share of the plunder?

Baldershash, Julia. There never was a society that was dominated socially and economically by women, or in which women chose men who were not socially or economically dominant.

It was all survival of the fittest, Julia, and it's why firl doctors and girl lawyers (the use of the term is deliberate) prefer men who have even more wealth and status than they have.

It all boils down to sexual attraction = bringing home meat and fighting off predators. It has never changed, and never will.

82

I think my wife went for my sense of humor. If she was after my money, than boy is she ever going to be disappointed.

This remembers me of Bowling for Columbine. The shriller a movie is marketed as "documentary", "historically accurate" etc. the more fictional it is. Just take the volume of such marketing efforts as an indicator. We live in Orwellian times.

Will this movie be any different than Braveheart? Except that dissing the English and pseudo-celtic heroics were very popular themes in the mid-1990s.

This movie will be lauded by the critics but the people who turn a movie into a 300 million dollar blockbuster will probably not pay to see PC shit about noble arabs and evil crusaders.

Links below the Telegraph story take you to a current story on Salman Rushdie fleeing Bombay because of death threats and an old Rushdie statement that, yes, of course, it's about islam!

This is the suicide vehicle bomb insurgency( jihadomobile campaign), at least 16 deadly attacks launched since begining of war, i do not think any army faced this kind of a campaign. People back in the US should realize that a bombing campaign like this cannot drive out a conventional army. It will succeed only if the politicians loose nerve and pull out the forces. A car bomb attack is a political statement.
USA has to show the same will in Iraq that Israel shows in her dealings with palestinian terrorists or India shows with the Kashmiri jihadis. The Iraqi people the main sufferers in this Jihadomobile campaign should realize that the attacks will not stop if USA pulls out because the sunni terrorists want to return to statusquo ante. They are unwilling to become the first gulf state in history to be controlled by Shias & your nascent security forces will be runover by the jihadomobiles.
Warning: do not sell vehicle insurance to Iraqis
Jihadomobile campaign by Heil Mo's [bigoted word]s

This does create a dilemma for me- Scott is one of my favorite directors. Correction above, the Romans called Spain Hispania or Spain.

Overall crusades correction, for the Jews, the Crusades were a disaster, rampaging crusaders on their way to free the Holy Seplucre committed innumerable acts of rape pillage and murder.

During the siege of Jerusalem the Jews did fight side by side with the Arabs and the massacre that followed the Cursaders' entry into the city more than validated the reason for doing so.

I am troubled by the thought of Scott, creator of the memorable 1984 ad for Apple, ie one of the great practitioners of saying things wiht images, will create a movie that will inspire Islamic militancy. By the fact this report says that Jews and Christians will be depicted as joined in fighting the crusaders (not sure which christians joined up), Scott will wind up creating controversy in other ways as well.

OT - Rantingprofs offer a link to a Telegraph article that might answer some of the "bush lied" charges

BBC Lied!

Odd how academics howl about films yet to be released, but are silent when people protest against an Israeli flag and a bullet-hole ridden picture of Saddam on the outside of a person's office door. Tim Blair's blog alerted me to this lunacy at Australia's National University.

Q: Is the battle of Useful People vs Useful Idiots is part of the War on Terror, or actually the heart of the matter?

Anyone who expects hisorical accuracy from a movie is looney. I am stretching to find one movie I have confirmed as being true to history but haven't thought of one. Maybe Tora...Tora...Tora or Midway. Anyone have any nominations?

Who's financing this movie--the House of Saud?

92- Scaramouche

That would be funny if it weren't so possible.

90 - Peter

I look at it a a matter of two fronts in the war to protect democracy. The problem is that one one front, we have obvious enemies (tranzies, the media, and the Dhimmicrat party) that can't be touched. This second front has to be waged very carefully (can't start shooting pinkos out of hand), but HAS to be waged.

The best way we have so far is to keep speading the truth, and fighting the lies. I know I make a pain in the ass of myself to my friends, but I usually am able to convince them that at least the media, for example, has it's own agenda. I wonder about other tactics, such as legal suits against media that blatantly lies; or throwing the book at protestors that break the law.

I do know that most conservative/rightwing/right-of-center folks won't be out there with banners and marches (maybe we should?). As P.J. O'Rourke says, tho, we have jobs :>

Please tell me again about the Jews controlling Hollywood.

Charles,
Please remove the "Idiotarian of 2003" part of the LGF homepage or update it to 2004. It looks IDIOTARIANISH.

OT: Arundhati Roy: "To applaud the US army's capture of Saddam Hussein and therefore justify its invasion and occupation of Iraq is like deifying Jack the Ripper for disembowelling the Boston Strangler," Roy said
OT: Shirin Ebadi: Iran Has No Nuclear Weapons
"Iran . . . doesn't need a nuclear bomb. We have not made any nuclear bombs and we do not have that technology," she said.

Horay for Holy-wood.

(That was sarcasm btw) Holy-wood knows best.

Poor Arabs...It's not like they had spent the 400 or 500 years before the Crusades conquering half the christian world and slaughtering thousands, was it? Peaceful people, all of 'em...

Check this photo op out. It is so staged that it amazes me that anyone will fall for it.

Daddy you need your ID

I don't think the film is going to portray the crusaders killings jews for fun, so maybe though that's not their complaint, it probably won't be factually accurate.

OT: Here's a picture of that Swedish piece o' crap masquerading as art:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

OT: Alabama: Muslims Want to Wear Hijab for Drivers License Photos
OT: Son of PA Security Chief Caught Driving Stolen Car

Mr Feiler called the envoy "an intellectual dwarf" who had tried to "stop free speech and free artistic expression".

Yeah, sort of like the complaints that the security fence is an attempt to stop free speech and expression of intafada.

At the time of the Ist Crusade, Islam had ruled Palestine (by conquest, of course) for about 3 Centuries.
But most of the other places taken by the Crusaders (Antioch, Edessa et al) had been under Christian rule within living memory. Surely the Crusade was as much--if not more of--a Reconquest than the later wars that drove the Muslims from Spain or, for that matter, Hungary and Serbia? History has its ebbs and flows; people didn't used to whine about it quite so much.
BTW, if you read Osama's rantings, you'll notice he still hasn't given up on the idea of taking back Spain someday. And--one supposes--Bulgaria, Georgia, Croatia, Sicily, Portugal, Greece and Cyprus

Unfortunately Hollywood movies have very little to do with historic reality, and yes, much of history would make for bad, boring movies if it were accurately presented. Nevertheless a high-profile propaganda piece like this is likely to have repercussions.

Anything that gets arabs all full-of-themselves is likely to have a bad effect, as anyone who has had to deal with these hysterical hairy babies knows full well.

Hopefully this celluloid garbage will settle down to it's rightful place down there at the bootom of the dumpster with Oliver Stone's "JFK" and Leni Riefenstal's "Triumph of the Will"

#102 scaramouche

OT: Here's a picture of that Swedish piece o' crap masquerading as art:

I guess we're just not sophisticated 'Serious Art' people or we might be able to 'fully appreciate' the 'value' of that 'piece' of crap./ There's something appealing to me about a guy who's just finally had it with the cavalier treatment given this deadly serious problem. Thank heaven for real people like him.

I read Clearly not for faint of art this morning, and your link to the 'artwork' prompted me to post the link.

Omigod, Omigod:

Knights Templar..."Saint" Saladin, big bad Crusaders, real history brought to you by Sir Walter Scott...losing...consciousness...zzzzzz!

Let me guess..the true history goes something like this: the knights templar are really just Berkley academics who are fighting for the dignity of Arabs and their right to practice their religion when the big bad Catholic Church run by Opus Dei sends out an army of albino munks to squash the little Muslim-Jewish-Christian commune in the Levant and impose its order on the Middle East.

I can now say that "Sir" Ridley Scott has completely lost it. That he is able to justify as "history" the total fantasies of a good part of the radical islamic world against the West with a good conscience is absolute treason. It displays a depth of moral bankruptcy that not only hits bottom and digs, but keeps on going straight into hell itself.

F him.

I always hated his movies. Now, I'll even be able to hate him.

I suppose the only solution when something is presented as "historically" accurrate but is not --therefore a deception --is to boycott the film.

Anyone is entitled to create anything -but fiction cannot be called fact. Or just presenting an interpretation from one side cannot be claimed as historically accurrate.

91 Dar ul Harbarian

The Longest Day about D Day - Normandy Invasion was fairly accurrate as to facts -with poetic license of course but true to the facts of planning, implementation and the journey to liberate Paris.

Tasty
It was Augustus. He was most upset about the Eagle standards falling into enemy hands and would shout " Varus, bring me back my eagles!"

Julia

Women are not the peaceful beings you have described. Many woman have led thier countries well in times of war.(Golda Meir, Maggie Thatcher,Indira Ghandi etc) Amongst the Celts it was common for the woman to fight along with the men folk. This scared the crap out of the Romans who were very paternalistic towards woman. The head of the Roman house had ultimate power of the woman under his care and could order them to death at whim.

Your historical views sound like many I have heard in Womans Studies. Unfortunately they are not very accurate.

I read an excellent bokk called Warrior Queens by Antonia Fraser. Sort of deflates the whole woman as peacefyl fertility symbol rather well.

#108

Uh. What's wrong with Saladin?

Yehudit (#81)

A little OT but good news: Bush still gets it.

Yet he still opposes the idea of Israel defending herself.

US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher declared that while Israel has the right to defend itself it should consider the consequences of its actions, adding that the US opposes Israel's targeted killings.

The Palestinians are not happy with Tony Blair: PA slams Blair for 'obscene' remarks

The Palestinian Authority on Saturday lashed out at British Prime Minister Tony Blair for saying that it would be impossible to restart the Middle East peace process without a credible security plan from the Palestinians.

The PA's official news agency, Wafa, described Blair's remarks as "obscene" and accused him of being unjust and unreasonable. This is the second time in less than a month that the PA launched a scathing attack on the British prime minister. A senior Palestinian official in Ramallah voiced concern that the latest attack on Blair is a sign of deteriorating relations between Britain and the PA.

In his statements on Friday, Blair said: "I have been critical of certain aspects of Israeli policy, but I do honestly believe it is impossible to get this process restarted unless there is a credible security plan." He said such a plan should allow "people to believe genuinely that every attempt is being made to stop the support of terrorism, the flow of terrorists into either the Palestinian Authority or into Israel, and to give a clear message that terrorism is the enemy of progress for the Palestinian people."

Reminding Blair that his country was responsible for the creation of Israel and the disasters that have since plagued the Palestinians, Wafa's political editor said: "Finally, Blair has done it by revealing himself in an unprecedented fashion. He is asking us to provide security for the Israelis without taking into consideration our security, which is being threatened and terrorized by Israel. This leads us to believe that Mr. Blair does not consider us to be human beings entitled to security and life."

It's everyone's fault but the Palestinians and of course, they're such a peaceful people.

#82 that's balderdash, to you.

Some women actually fall in love with men because they love them, not because the men are "powerful alpha-males". What a bunch of social Darwinist malarkey you spout...

Academics, however - including Professor Jonathan Riley-Smith, Britain’s leading authority on the Crusades - attacked the plot of Kingdom of Heaven, describing it as “rubbish”, “ridiculous”, “complete fiction” and “dangerous to Arab relations”.

Maybe this Riley is one of us? He might think the Wst should crack down on these medieval savages rather than pander to them!

Yehudit posts: Right. That's why Jewish men chant A Woman of Valor to their wives every Shabbat, why they have an obligation to sexually satisfy their wives, why the marriage contract stipulated how much the husband should pay his wife if he divorces her, and why Jewish women ran the business while the husband studied.

why they have an obligation to sexually satisfy their wives

Really? I gotta find me a Jewish husband!

#39,

Technical advisors on the Muhammad biopic include John Esposito, John Voll and our old buddy, Khalid Abu El-Fadl.

Ummm, I bet it's going to be a REALLY accurate portrayal.

#116 lol :-)

I wanna know

Will it be released first in France in arabic with french sub-titles or in french with arabic sub-titles

Maybe first in Canada with an intro by now-out-of-work Cretin and then bootlegged to N Korea as a demonstration of western paganism.

Rent it at your local video store and tape over it with Babe, Porkies and shots of yours dogs procreating....

#113 Zulubaby:

Re the statement by Richard Boucher, the State Department spokesreptile...you forgot to copy this part:

"After concluding his statement, Mr. Boucher shed his skin, then amazed the assembled reporters by swallowing a live guinea pig whole before slithering back into his subterranean nest".

Er, Jewish husbands have to satisfy their wives five times a day?

P.T.B. Turduken -

Hey, I like guinea pigs! Couldn't he have swallowed Madeline Albright instead?

Mar (#111) wrote:

Your historical views sound like many I have heard in Womans Studies. Unfortunately they are not very accurate.
I read an excellent bokk called Warrior Queens by Antonia Fraser. Sort of deflates the whole woman as peacefyl fertility symbol rather well.

Hear hear. I am so sick of this woman as peaceful, noncompetitive nurturer stereotype that has destroyed modern feminism. It's built on historical revisionism and verges on being a cult. It's so comforting for them to imagine that all society's ills are caused by those nasty, brutish men, and that a society run by women would be a tolerant, diverse, nonconfrontational, agrarian utopia.

Regarding the OP, I am saddened because I loved Gladiator. Terrific movie, despite its historical flaws.

#82: You're reading the wrong books

This is from Njal's Saga (written in Iceland in the 1100s):

There's the Viking's version of the mother from Hell (Bergthora, the wife of Njal) goading her sons on to murder for her honor.

There's the wife of a man named Hoskuld who is killed by Bergthora's sons saying to her kinsman: "I call upon God and all good men to witness that I charge you in the name of all the powers of your Christ and in the name of your courage and your manhood to avenge every one of the wounds that marked his body."

There's a woman named Hallgerd, who in a rivalry with said Bergthora, orders the consecutive murders of Bergthora's slaves. In response, Bergthora has a few of Hallgerd's slaves murdered.

That's just one saga.

There are many others.

All Scandinavian. All medieval or older.

Don't even get me started.

I think these feminist academics want historical women to be just as dull as they are.

In further dhimmified Brit news: Rhys-Davies attacked for "racist" remarks.

Is there no sense east of the Atlantic?

A bit late to the thread but concerning the Battle of Tutoberg Forrest, it is not very clear what happened there and where it really took place. It has been speculated that the Romans made up the whole thing as kind of a scare story about the barbarians from the East - no parallels to anything implied...

Anyway, the Tutoberg Forrest is not located in Southwest Germany but hundreds of miles northwards in the region which is nowadays known as East-Westphalia, part of the most populous German state of Northrhine-Westphalia.

Why is the West so intent on destroying itself? It's not just kill me, it's kill me please because we wronged you so.

Why would Ridley Scott do this? He made Black Hawk Down for pPetes sake. He should be quite familiar with the backward, violent ideology of the Muslim world. What a hypocrite...