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UN: Get Out of NY

Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 9:17:53 am PST

In Forbes Magazine, British historian Paul Johnson has a message for the United Nations: Get Out of New York! (Hat tip: Kae.)

When America was the leader of a successful wartime coalition—and the world wished it to continue in that role—it made excellent sense to place UN headquarters in New York. But those days have long passed. America has accepted its world-policeman destiny, and the UN is merely a minor obstacle to the successful performance of that task. The place has become a mere theater of empty rhetoric and shameless deals supporting a growing tide of anti-Semitism and racism and—let us not be mealymouthed—state crime. It is a place where near-bankrupt dictatorships can sell their votes to the highest bidder.

It is also a place where well-connected playboy diplomats from the Third World can indulge in an expense-account lifestyle in one of the richest cities on earth, ignoring the pitiful poverty of their home countries and often using their diplomatic immunity to break the law. This is an insult to the dignity of the human race.

As the UN is now constituted, a far better location for it would be in a city near the gravitational center of the Afro-Eurasian landmass. There it would be close to the realities of the problems it ought to be tackling—poverty; bad, cruel and corrupt governments; international lawlessness; civil wars. The place I’d suggest is Dar es Salaam (though I can think of a half-dozen other equally suitable venues). Having UN headquarters there would hugely reduce the cost of running it and its associated activities from New York. It would also deter the playboy element that is one of the curses of the organization and help persuade both staff and delegations to take their jobs seriously.

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223 comments

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1 Mike Silverman  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:19:36am

I bet NYC would be happy if the UN moved, because they would finally be rid of all those UN diplomats who rack up those thousand-dollar parking violations and then don't pay their tickets, you know, because of diplomatic immunity!

2 SoCalJustice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:21:12am
The place has become a mere theater of empty rhetoric and shameless deals supporting a growing tide of anti-Semitism and racism and—let us not be mealymouthed—state crime. It is a place where near-bankrupt dictatorships can sell their votes to the highest bidder.

So true - and the highest bidder is all too often, unfortunately, the Arab League.

3 dhimmi smits  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:21:26am

AMEN, brother. i was in a cab passing the UN last night and had to both avert my eyes and flip it the bird. AND TAKE YOUR SCOFFLAW "DIPLOMATS" WITH YOU!

4 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:22:28am

Moving the UN just seems like a pipe dream that will never actually happen. Although I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really want it to.

5 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:22:43am
6 Nancy  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:23:21am

I couldn't agree with the article more.

7 BigFire  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:23:38am

The place I'd really want UN to be headquartered at would naturally be Tierra del Fuego off the coast of Argentina. Lots of landmine, very inaccessable. Very very far from anywhere.

8 AG in Houston  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:24:38am

Isn't it obvious that Paul Johnson is a Jooo?

9 Flaming Sword  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:24:59am

Outstanding article!

10 Keith McComb  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:25:42am

#4 Right Wing Conspirator

No, tell us what you REALLY think...*grin*

11 WriterMom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:26:26am

I love the way he talks about the "extensive sites currently occupied by the UN".

The UN is therefore the most evil occupation force on the planet!

Free New York! Liberate the occupied territories from the opressors! Peace and justice for New York!

12 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:26:47am

#5 bigel

Whats wrong man. You going soft on us. I thought for sure this would be more to you liking. ;-)

13 Ms. Andi  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:28:30am

Yes, they need to leave. Please go.

14 militarybrat  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:28:50am

At first glance, I thought this would either be a rant or a satire. But... I agree so much.

And, sorry for the OT, but can anyone tell me what the hell a "white fundamentalist" is? Are they those people in Idaho? And why weren't fundamentalists of other ethnicities questioned for this retarded poll that has made major news media and yet has a statistical error factor that makes it worth as much as Kucinich's presidential bid?

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

15 MarkD  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:29:25am

So, in essence, the writer is suggesting outsourcing the UN to some country with cheaper labor.

Ok, I'm now on the outsourcing band-wagon.

MarkD

16 fat.elvis  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:29:25am


And don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!!!

{sigh... only a fantasy}

17 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:29:56am
18 del  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:34:43am

What do LGFers think of Paul Johnson? I found a book in a booksale (haven't read it yet): Enemies of Society (1977 Atheneum Press) which on skimming, seems to have been prescient about at least a few issues over the intervening 27 years.

19 Underhill  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:35:33am

OT:

Any comments on [Link: www.homelandsecurityus.com...] article of OBL captured?

I'm not familier with this site.

20 Smitty  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:35:34am

Hm, an interesting suggestion.

I like this guy - sort of like VDH but easier to read and without the Peloponnesian War angle.

21 Ed Moran abu Halal for the Eid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:35:37am

Dar es Salaam.

It would be appropriate if the UN left the Dar el Harb and set up shop in Dar es Salaam.

Islam means peace, and that is what the UN is all about.

22 Unmutual  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:36:35am

die UN die.

23 Wondermutt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:36:36am
The place I’d suggest is Dar es Salaam (though I can think of a half-dozen other equally suitable venues). Having UN headquarters there would hugely reduce the cost of running it and its associated activities from New York.

But think of the expense of shipping Chivas and Trojans all that way!

24 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:36:49am

OT: When France isn't lobbying for Arab dictators and Islamic terrorists, they lobby for Communist China.

But the EU, in an unusually moral decision, have rejected a French move to lift an EU arms embargo on China.

25 NC  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:37:06am

Couldn't agree more. The fact that that shithole is a half-hour subway ride from Ground Zero is an atrocity.

26 Jacko  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:38:37am

A Brit wrote that !!! We can't have them coming to their
senses can we. Move it to Isreal and watch a billion
heads explode in stereo!!!

GO UN GO (away)

27 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:38:43am

From the Telegraph article in #24, some wonderful editorialising:

In Paris, where the Eiffel Tower glowed Communist red last night...

BTW, be sure to check out Jay Nordlinger's multi-part coverage of Davos. Wonderful reading.

28 BIG  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:38:56am

Doesn't the world already have a land sharing agreement on Antartica? I can think of no better place for the UN then on Antartica.

29 Ed Moran abu Halal for the Eid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:39:43am

19


The Most Gracious, The Most Compassionate loves that site. It helps keep the kufr good and confused.


Picture Debka, except all the writers have been on a 3 day amphetamine binge, and are getting a little edgy.

30 Thoroughly Modern Hillbilly  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:40:24am

I used to live in NYC - and back then I worked at this clothing store, and the UN dips would come in and act like total scumbags. And not pay tax, which I had to calculate out manually.

This bigshot from Australia said to me - "Is this all you want out of life, selling shirts? I made my first million when I was your age!"

"No, dick, I'm a senior in college." I said.

The Third Worlders were the worst - they acted like angry gods when they came into the store...which by the way was Abercrombie & Fitch, not Chanel or something.

At least I got to bang a couple daughters of UN diplomats - one from an island country where a former dictator's wife was known to own a few pair of shoes, and one from a tiny European country.

31 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:41:06am

Move the UN to Riyadh.

Five minutes without booze and sex and those playboys would be the hell out of there. Then let's hear the Eurocrits extol the virtues of mohammedanism and arab culture.

32 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:41:38am
Americans may despise the UN's community, but it forms an important part of New York City's economy and its departure would be felt.

Speaking of which, if Bush really wants '04, he should demand that UN diplomats pay for the parking tickets, and veto everything until it's done.

33 observer  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:41:57am

I'd like to move the UN to the railroad junction at Sobibor, Poland.

See photo at:

[Link: jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

Maybe somebody can show the photo on the thread.

34 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:43:03am

Oh yeah, one other thing:

When SA refuses to allow the Israeli delegation in, then we can enjoy the tortured explanations as to why it isn't Jew-hatred at all, or hypocritical, to ban fellow People of the Book from an entire country.

35 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:43:08am

#31 Thom

Then let's hear the Eurocrits extol the virtues of mohammedanism and arab culture.

Might as well move it to Paris then.

36 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:45:48am

And one last thing:

Just imagine all of the female diplomats, translators, etc., having to wear body bags so as not to offend the RoTers. ROFLMAO.

Yeah. Move the UN to Riyadh.

37 Mozz  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:46:01am

Translation of #22:

The UN, The

38 T.A Tiger  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:46:15am

Brilliant article. Let's put UN diplomats on the Queen Mary II and ship them off to Zaire or Uganda. I am sure they will all be welcomed regardless of their race, gender or favourite social cause. Then lets see if they can shit all over their host country and its leaders while enjoying all its privileges the way they have done with the U.S.... ONLY IN AMERICA!

39 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:46:21am

#33 observer

No way. The UN's predeccessor contributed to that Holocaust, and is trying to bring about another one. I second Thom; they can go to Riyadh.

40 militarybrat  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:47:17am

I read out the entry about sending the UN to Israel to my husband. He said, "But then they'd bomb it."

But then we could have an Israeli write a poem about how 3000 arabs didn't show up to work that day.

41 Abu Schnozzle  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:47:38am

Paul Johnson is a genius, with really excellent values. I have heard him on radio (Dennis Prager's show) several times, and I have read a couple of his books. He is an excellent art critic, too. He is English, not Jewish, and very pro Western culture, pro Israel, pro democracy, etc. And I think he's right: the UN ought to seek greener pastures: Dar Es Salaam is one very good idea for starters.

42 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:49:37am

In regards to Holocaust Memorial Day: I witnessed the dead of Belsen: we must always confront tyranny

The British liberators were staggered and shocked by the inhuman behaviour of some of the former guards, who continued to abuse and torment prisoners nearing death when they assumed we were looking the other way. I confess that on such occasions I may have breached the Geneva Convention to prevent further ill treatment of helpless victims. Their behaviour after we had arrived contradicted the excuse that the SS had forced them to carry out orders. Our new orders to them were "Stop acting like savages".
43 Outsider  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:50:39am

#24 - Colt

Well, they lit the Eiffel tower RED.

And the EU is still against selling arms to Taiwan,
most notably the selling of German 'Dolphin' class Diesel-electric subs. Israel already has three of those, but I understand they are being reluctant to sell any more.
I think their problem with China is how to divide the spoils rather than morals.

44 Nancy  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:53:02am

Slightly off topic but speaking of the UN ---

Interesting, these are people who fled Iraq before Sadaam was ousted who have been denied refugee status by the UN even when Sadaam was still in power.

They have been in Indonesia for two/half years but one fled as long as 9 years ago.

[Link: www.thejakartapost.com...]

Seven Iraqi asylum-seekers on hunger strike in Lombok
Luh Putu Trisna Wahyuni, The Jakarta Post, Mataram, Nusa Tenggara Barat
Seven Iraqi immigrants here continued their hunger strike on Monday in an attempt to put pressure on the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) to recognize them as refugees.

"We request the secretary of the UN Mr. Kofi Anan (sic) to intervene personally to save the lives of women, children and men".

They are among the 23 Iraqi immigrants who have been in Mataram for more than two-and-a-half years since they fled oppression and death threats under the regime of then president Saddam Hussein. They are under supervision of the UN's International Organization for Migration (IOM).


They further complained that living in Indonesia would just pose new problems because the world's largest Muslim country turned down their requests for citizenship, which would allow them to work and send their children to school.

Dozens of other Iraqis were arrested by Indonesian police in 2001 on their trip to Australia due to the lack of documents.

45 nr  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:55:24am

Del, #18,

Where have you been? You must have led a sheltered life if you haven't caught on to Paul Johnson yet. He is one of the greatest historians of our time. Before VDH there was Paul Johnson who has written "A History of Christianity", "A History of the Jews", "The Birth of the Modern", "Intellectuals", "Modern Times" and many, many other brilliant books.

Absolutely everyone at LGF should read "Modern Times". Everyone I know who has read it thinks that it is THE book on the 20th century.

46 T.A Tiger  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:56:59am

Perhaps we should start to petition 'W" to build a new UN building in Iraq. It would be great as the Western dips would be too scared to go and the "united" nations will resemble more closely what it really is - United Arab Nations.

47 observer  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:59:31am

#42, Colt

It was a semi-serious suggestion. Maybe the proximity to Sobibor would give them pause before passing another anti-Israel resolution. More likely, it might inspire them to pass even more.
Couldn't we just declare the UN irrelevant? Maybe the FDA could ban it from the USA.
Great piece in the DT.

48 Israel's Amos  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:59:46am

Thom,
That's the greatest suggestion about the UN ever. Even now, when the UN is in New York, Israel is limited in its actions (the only limited country, IIRC) there, and is always in the minority. If it's in SA, it will save us the cost of a delegation to a terminally corrupt organization.

On the other hand, there are some reasons for keeping the UN in New York. I know its a pain in the neck, but its an insurance policy against a jihadi attack with The Islamic Bomb. Also, I do believe that walls have ears. I'd rather they were American ears, not SA ears.
And the overbearing apparatchiks? #30 seems to have found a way to turn a bad situation around...

49 Rick Z  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:00:33am

{a New Yorker, rising from his chair}

CLAP, CLAP, CLAP


Now, if only Mr. Johnson's idea can be taken seriously by those inside the Beltway, especially Foggy Bottom, then true progress could be made.

From the above posts, I really liked the idea of shipping the UNgrateful bastards to Riyadh, where they will not be able to cavort sexually, drink liberally, or speak openly (and woe unto those who do not pay their tickets/bills/rent/etc.; Shari'a is most definitely not for you). Great idea, to torture the UNuchs, Mohameddan style!

50 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:00:40am

#43 Outsider

And the EU is still against selling arms to Taiwan

I think the Telegraph article (and you) are right:

President Jacques Chirac has led the drive to ease sanctions imposed after the Tiananmen Square massacre of students in 1989, hoping to benefit from China's economic growth and draw Asia's rising power into strategic "multipolar" alliance with the EU to counter American hegemony.
51 nr  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:01:53am

Oh, and I'd like to see the FDNY, NYPD, and Giuliani deliver the eviction notice to Koffi in person.

52 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:03:46am

#47 observer

Maybe the proximity to Sobibor would give them pause before passing another anti-Israel resolution. More likely, it might inspire them to pass even more.

The UN is in New York, and it hasn't changed their stance on terrorism...

Yeah, that op-ed is quite something. I'd change nothing but this:

They are not lost in the past; they could still happen again are happening again today.
53 Martin Kramer  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:06:02am

Friends: Off-topic, and apologies, but read this, about a possible release by Germany of a Hezbollah terrorist who killed an American.

54 ErnieG  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:06:40am
#38 T.A Tiger

Brilliant article. Let's put UN diplomats on the Queen Mary II and ship them off to Zaire or Uganda....

Better yet, put them all on a big boat cruising endlessly to nowhere. Kind of like that garbage barge a few years back that went to sea and no port would allow it to dock.

55 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:06:57am

Europeans mark anniversary of Auschwitz liberation

European legislators marked the 59th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz Nazi death camp on Tuesday with a warning against modern-day anti-Semitism, then went back to trying to implement the PLO's Phases Plan.

Italics are mine...

56 Gordon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:08:51am

It's funny to see all the New Yorkers on this thread begging to get the UN out of New York. They apparently don't care about the economic health of their own city. All of those "playboy" diplomats spend lots of money which filters its way into the pockets of the city's citizens. Ah, to be poor and virtuous!

57 Lawrence Schmerel  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:09:14am

It was fun to think about, but fanciful. The U.S. should only have one policy toward the U.N. Participate in it but at the same time ignore it. It will go away.

58 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:10:39am

#56 Gordon

I see your principles don't extend past your bank balance.

OT from Debka. Good (unconfirmed) news:

Former Iraqi vice president Izzat al-Douri in American hands - member of Iraqi governing Council

59 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:11:06am
60 ErnieG  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:11:53am

Ah, on every thread, whatever its subject, we are faced with the question, WWGP*?


*"What will Gordon post?"

61 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:12:23am

#56 Gordon

I think that NYC will somehow survive without the UN's economic largesse. Just think of all the new office space that would become available (once the building is rennovated and made habitable - after the dicklomats are out)! Imagine that - the former UN building home to those who produce capital, not merely consume it.

62 ploome  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:12:32am

#41 Abu Schnozzle

sounds like he is relatedd to Charles.

Charles?

63 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:12:39am
64 Rick Z  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:12:50am

# 56 Gordon:

You don't really have a clue, do you? The UN delegates have diplomatic immunity. Businesses in NY have gone out of business due to dealing with UN delegates/employees. They don't like to pay their bills. If the UN is so damn great, let 'em move to your city. Watch the sh*tstorm happen to your hometown.

Get the UN out of NYC damn quick!

65 JohninLondon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:13:09am

Oddly, Paul Johnson was once mainstream Labour in the UK. He was editor of the New Statesman in the 1960s.

But has always written well.

66 Lawrence Schmerel  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:13:28am

Gordon:

New York will do very well without the U.N. You exagerate its benefit. New York will not be poor or virtuous merely because the U.N. is situtated elsewhere. The U.S. isn't going to ask the U.N. to leave anyway. It is just fun to think about. The U.N. is, however, irrelevant. It won't be around much longer in its current state anyway.

67 Necklace of shoes  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:16:28am

Get that bull's eye out of my back yard! And all the dips can take a hike and free up some parking in Mid town.

bigel-do you know of laser guided naval shells? That's a new one on me. Or is it laser aiming?

68 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:16:29am

#59 bigel

These days, Europe celebrates the Holocaust with wild parties, drinking binges, and a wish that we hadn't defeated Hitler so quickly so he could have killed EVERY last Jew.

True. I was invited to three of those things. I had to turn down one invitation - mostly because I didn't have a costume ["Wehrmacht und Wehrmaidens" theme - I only have SS] - and I'm arriving at the second party fashionably late.

69 Roll-aid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:19:53am

Go one better. Why poison any one place?

Put the entire UN on a surplus cruise ship -- of which there are several -- which could float around the planet, docking wherever their services were needed.

For landlocked trouble spots, I'm sure suitable anchorage rights could be negotiated in a closeby country for suitable rent (payable in advance I'm sure).

Port cities know how to handle boozers and womanizers after all. Rotterdam would be right up their alley and maybe the sleazier bits of Lagos would be attractive.

Ports could also quarantine the UN Ship of Fools and send out small boats with food, booze and hookers to keep the UN amused and enrich the local economy.

70 Gordon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:21:36am

#59 Bigel: It's nice to see that seething Islamophobia isn't the only kind of nuttery on this site. You're seething, raging Europhobia is quite a nice match.

And even less justified, by the way.

71 JohninLondon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:22:03am

The article suggests that the UN should be replaced in NYC with the NATO HQ - move it away from Brussels, involve some Pacific states with a peacekeeping will (Australia, Singapore, Japan) and make it the de facto world peacekeeper led by the world's policeman.

The UN should also be kicked out of the other expensive cities it spends poor nations' money in - like Paris, Geneva.

All of what Paul Johnson proposes looks perfectly feasible. Any Presidential candidate who proposed it would win a lot of votes.

72 Roll-aid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:22:23am

#54 Ernie G

Beat me to the idea, my friend. Should have posted before I got that sandwich.

73 ruprecht  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:23:13am

The UN Should move to Paris because the Europeans love it so much and it would allow third world dictators to visit the south of France and buy real estate before they're deposed.

74 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:24:16am
75 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:26:25am

Martin Kramer (#53)

I've been watching that story closely. I don't understand why Germany has got into making independent deals with Hizbollah.

76 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:27:21am

#74 bigel

I thought PLO/Al-Qaeda/Islamic terrorist costumes (with bomb belt) were the rage these days at European Kill-the-Jews Holocaust parties.

It was last year, but this time we're going Old Skool. Takin' it back to the way it was done.

{Sigh} Enough. I can't keep this up. Not today.

77 gymnast  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:28:36am

The UN, billions of dollars to support an organization where the product is a dysfunctional process. I don't care if they move it, just get the US out of it.

78 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:28:44am
79 iowahawk  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:29:11am

Geez, people, think! If the UN moves, it will be devastating to bronzer sales at the 44th St. Duane Read.

80 ErnieG  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:29:24am

#72 Roll-aid

Great minds...

81 Jersey Devil  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:29:59am

The UN should leave New York. The diplomats are an on-going source of vice and crime that makes life more difficult for everyone else living in New York, who are (unlike the diplomats) decent and moral people.

Of course I could be considered prejudiced because I was born in New York (Beth Israel Hospital in Manhattan) and believe it to be the greatest and most wonderful city in the world.

The lights of New York would shine so much brighter with the U.N. gone.

82 observer  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:31:37am

#68, Colt

That Italian report on European antisemitism may be the final chapter in our bigelization. But nukes won't be necessary.
The Europeans are forging the chains for their own servitude.

(I do wish reports would do follow-up questions--as on the "particular relationship" of Jews to money. I thought those relationships were reserved for British MPs and their spanking, whip-snapping hookers. Oh, well.)

83 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:34:57am

#82 observer

Yeah. The polls seem to show that about 20-30% are latent antisemites, while ~20% are shameless Nazis. Throw in the stance of the media...

Speaking of which, this is a great piece on how the International Herald Tribune twists already skewed NYT stories and makes them even more anti-Israel.

84 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:35:33am

bigel -

For future reference: ñ = ñ

85 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:36:09am

Duh.

ñ = ñ

86 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:36:45am
87 scaramouche  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:38:11am

#75 zulubaby

I've been watching that story closely. I don't understand why Germany has got into making independent deals with Hizbollah.

I think it's a case of crocodile-feeding.

88 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:38:31am

OT - Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry
Some photos that I doubt we will see on any news shows anytime soon.

89 SoCalJustice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:40:39am

JohninLondon / Colt

Any word on the Hutton Enquiry?

Wasn't the report supposed to be released today?

90 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:43:05am

The U.N. should be moved to Kofi Annan's beautiful home city of Accra, Ghana......I'm sure they could use the foreign investment, plus there are no traffic laws!
I have no doubt that the people of Ghana would be all for it, though I'm not so sure about Mr. Annan.

91 Right Wing Conspirator  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:43:24am

#86 bigel

Don't worry. We aren't going to have to revert to the Samson Option for Europe. Ol' Mother Nature is going to take care of things for us:

Global warming will plunge Britain into new ice age 'within decades'
If that happens, Britain and northern Europe are expected to switch abruptly to the climate of Labrador - which is on the same latitude - bringing a nightmare scenario where farmland turns to tundra and winter temperatures drop below -20C. The much-heralded cold snap predicted for the coming week would seem balmy by comparison.


Time to get that new hairspray with the double CFC's in it, run my car without the cat. converter more often and exhale more C02.

92 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:45:22am

#89 SoCalJustice

Tommorrow. Top-up fees tonight (a close vote in the Commons, that I expect Tony will win), then Hutton on Wednesday. A tough 48 hours for the guy.

93 Outsider  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:45:37am

OT but can anyone confirm this?

Iranian exile in German court:
Osama bin Laden's son personally notified Iranian leaders of Al-Qa'idas intention to execute 9/11 attacks.

Tehran knew?

94 Ed Moran abu Halal for the Eid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:46:19am

Bigel

It is spelled piñata

95 SoCalJustice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:47:37am

(#92) Colt

Ah, my calender is off.

Yeah, I read that his school fees opponent flipped and is now backing him. One disaster averted.

I would love to see Hutton stick it to the Beeb, and make it a two-fer for Tony.

96 JohninLondon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:47:59am

SoCal

Hutton gives a LIVE summary of his report at 12.30 midday tomorrow, London time.

The main players now have an advance copy but under total secrecy.

My guess is that Blair's press spokesmen will be criticised, including Alastair Campbell, as will the SecofState and officials at the Ministry of Defence for not taking propoer care of Kelly, their employee. But Blair could escape with only minor criticism.

The BBC looks likely to get criticised from top to bottom - for the initial misreporting, for management failure to investigate properly the complaints against it, and for the Chairman/Board of Governors failing to oversee for balance and accuracy.

97 Ed Moran abu Halal for the Eid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:48:10am
98 Let's Roll  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:48:52am

OT -- Good one.

Radio station rapped for Muslim terror jibe

OTTAWA (Reuters) - A Canadian radio station has been rapped for suggesting Muslims only travel to Mecca to build up "frequent flyer miles" to mount another September 11 style attack.

The Canadian Broadcast Standards Council said the item on Calgary's CJAY-FM had been "singularly unacceptable" and ordered the station to make a public apology.

As part of a spoof quiz, the station asked listeners why Muslims were going to Mecca. One of the possible answers was that it was "just a way to build up some frequent flyer miles so you don't have to pay the next time you want to ram an aeroplane in the stronghold of the Western civilisation".

When a listener chose this answer, the two presenters replied "Absolutely right there" and "You nailed that one." The standards council said it was wrong to link all Muslims with the September 11 attacks.

"The implication that all Muslims...might travel to their holiest city in order to fund terrorist activities is outrageous," it said in its ruling.

The radio station admitted the segment was "over the top" but stressed it was supposed to be funny.

99 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:49:17am

#93 Outsider

Sources? Sounds interesting, though I'm wary of the testimony of exiles. I know what I'd do to set my country free from a regime like the mullahs, and lying is just the start.

100 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:49:59am

scaramouche (#87)

True. They obviously felt that their last session of crocodile-feeding worked well, when they arranged for terrorists to walk free without consulting Israel or anyone else.

101 Gordon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:50:25am

#78 Bigel: If you were writing in 1944, your Europhobia would be valid. Unfortunately for you, it is 2004. Time to leave your time warp.

102 SoCalJustice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:51:55am

(#96) JohninLondon

Thanks for the info and analysis!

I saw a report in al-Guardian today that Clare Short met with the Beeb right before the Gilligan piece ran an urged them to go with the "sexed-up" account.

The Beeb's now being attacked from "the left" too.

103 Scott  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:52:06am

This is my first time posting, I usually just lurk and LMAO. I live two blocks from the UN, I sit on my little balconey and look at the UN, I lie in bed and stare out the window at the UN. There are times I get so pissed off just having to look at it. When my blood pressure gets too high I whip out a t-shirt that has the symbol of the UN with "UNAMERICAN" written underneath, usually I'll go out to Keats or McFaddens for a couple of beers to cool off. I get some pretty funny reactions, I think they realize they are not the most popular people in NYC.

104 scaramouche  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:52:37am

In a semi-related story, the U.N. is sending "election experts" to Iraq to determine if earlier elections are feasible. I was just thinking about the concept of U.N. election experts considering that, for many U.N. members--thugocracies and dictatorships alike--there are no elections. And since the U.N. is in the business of excusing and extending the rule of tyrants, I don't really see much of an "election" role for them in Iraq. Of course, one unpleasant encounter with a suicide bomber, and they'll be scurrying back to New York.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

105 observer  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:52:42am

#96, bigel

No argument about Europe's inability to see and treat Jews as human beings.

Maybe the spirit in Europe that produced a Renaissance and Enlightenment will awaken under Islamic rule and turn European culture into one of brilliant servitude. Their instinct to be vanquished is striking.

106 Ed Moran abu Halal for the Eid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:52:57am

98


In a previous thread about "thought crime" or "hate speech" laws being used to go after antisemites, I said this kind of stuff would be the ultimate result.


That kind of thing will come back to bite Canada (and whoever else has those kind of laws) in a big way when the wrong people get into power.

107 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:57:15am

Gordon:

Gordon 1/27/2004 10:08AM PST


It's funny to see all the New Yorkers on this thread begging to get the UN out of New York. They apparently don't care about the economic health of their own city. All of those "playboy" diplomats spend lots of money which filters its way into the pockets of the city's citizens. Ah, to be poor and virtuous!

As a NY lifer, I find it interesting how you can make any such claims without knowing what would replace the UN and the diplomats and claiming that there would be economic disaster for removing the UN from NY.

For starters, missions would probably remain (if they don't - imagine hundreds of housing units suddenly coming on the market, making affordable housing all the more available). Since NYC is the largest city in the US, most governments would maintain missions here in NY (and said diplomats would continue their spending ways).

As for the property itself, the UN building is in such bad shape that they're building a new building on an adjacent property (currently a park), to house various UN operations. The land value of the UN property is probably in the billion dollar range itself, and would be prized for its location, either as housing or as office space.

This doesn't speak to the economic benefits of having the property on the taxable rolls, rather than being nontaxed. You can bet that having the UN and its related facilities on the tax rolls would reduce or eliminate the need for increased property taxes throughout the city.

That said, I can't picture the UN getting kicked out of NY unless the organization disbands or is itself the source of a terrorist attack against the US.

108 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:58:39am
109 bigel[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 8:59:57am
111 Let's Roll  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:01:40am

OT -- Justice Dept. Finds No Patriot Act Abuse

WASHINGTON (AP) - A Justice Department investigation into possible civil rights and civil liberties abuses under the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act found no abuses but a few instances of mistreatment of Muslim and Arab people, mainly at U.S. prisons, according to a report released Tuesday.

Among the 1,266 recent civil rights and civil liberties complaints received between June 14 and Dec. 15, 2003, only 17 involved Justice employees and merited a full investigation, according to the report by Glenn A. Fine, the department's inspector general.

Of those, most involved excessive force, verbal abuse and other alleged mistreatment at Bureau of Prisons facilities.

112 Sweet Justice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:02:55am

True. I was invited to three of those things. I had to turn down one invitation - mostly because I didn't have a costume ["Wehrmacht und Wehrmaidens" theme - I only have SS] - and I'm arriving at the second party fashionably late.

iT WOULD BE A SHAME IF SOMEONE WERE TO FIREBOMB ONE OF THOSE SICK PARTIES. jUST IMAGINE, IF YOU CAN, ALL THE LITTLE HITLERITES AND SS WANT-A-BE's DANCING AROUND IN HAMEMADE NAPALM.... A prelude to hell, for the richly deserving.

113 mpax  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:03:24am

Paul Johnson is essential reading:

Intellectuals
Birth of the Modern
Modern Times

I don't know how prolific writers keep it all straight.

114 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:04:07am

#110 SCJ

I love the way these guys talk!

"This is untrue. He has made up this information...he has made it up for fraudulent purposes. He wants to make money and his views are of no value," he told a joint news conference with Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini.
115 hellcat  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:06:27am

and they can take their glowing portraits of Yasser Arafish with them.

116 SoCalJustice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:11:46am

(#114) Colt

It's a few "Zionists" short of an Arafat speech.

117 Señor papijoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:14:03am

Thom

Gracias. I never knew how to do an ñ

118 abu-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:16:51am

who cares where they move, just as long as they get out of the u.s. before we pay a billion to renovate the dumpster for the trash that reside there. fu*kem!

119 Nancy  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:18:31am

Economic benefit? Hardly. The UN pays NO taxes at all. Not property/real estate taxes, not any city taxes --zilch --

Here's the "beauty" though --they are only exempt from taxes as long as the U.S. is a member. Even if they didn't relocate --if the U.S. ever pulled out they would be required to pay taxes.

Hmmmm-prime real estate in New York City? They probably couldn't afford to stay there without the U.S. membership contribution AND having to pay taxes besides!

[Link: www.orps.state.ny.us...]

This exemption applies to certain property owned by the United Nations or any other worldwide international organization of which the United States is a member that has been established to maintain international peace and security and to solve, through cooperation among nations, international economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian problems.

120 Outsider  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:18:48am

#110 - SoCalJustice

Thanks!
sometimes it drives me crazy when I find a news item in Hebrew forums, and can't find any English sources.

121 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:25:21am

#117 Señor papijoe

Here's my cheatsheet:

[Link: hotwired.lycos.com...]

{But ... shhhhh ... don't tell anybody ...}

122 Colt  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:26:28am

Government wins tuition fees vote in Commons

Details coming...

123 abu-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:29:13am

Just Say "NO!!" adios, get lost, here's your hat, what's your hurry....

124 Nancy  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:30:54am

Just to lay to rest the economic issue --the United States contributes 25 percent of the entire UN Budget. And Britian, incidently is the 6th largest contributer.


The United States is today and has always been the largest financial contributor to the United Nations System. The U.S. contributed a total of $2.4 billion to the United Nation programs and budget in 1999. This includes contributions to the UN regular budget, the regular budgets of the specialized agencies, peacekeeping efforts, and a wide variety of special programs and emergency relief operations.
For the period 1998 through 2000, the United States has been assessed 25 percent of the regular UN budget (which totals $2.536 billion for 2000-2001). This covers the overall Secretariat and Headquarters costs as well as programs established by the UN General Assembly. [Link: www.genevabriefingbook.com...]

125 CCR  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:36:51am

I like the idea of putting the UN on Antarctica, but I suspect the penguins would object. The moon is also international territory.

126 BC  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:37:46am

OT: From Haaretz:

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom on Tuesday cancelled a visit to Jordan planned for Wednesday. The visit was postponed due to Amman's dissatisfaction with the prisoner exchange deal with Hezbollah, which highlights Jerusalem's refusal to release Jordanian prisoners convicted of murder, while releasing similar Lebanese prisoners, Sources in Jerusalem said.

Don't those Jordanians understand the rules of the game? If you want to get your murderers out of Israeli prisons, you gotta start killing people!

127 Paladin  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:41:07am

If the United Nations were a horse, it would have been turned into glue (something useful) a long time ago.

128 Señor papijoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:43:59am

#121 Thom

¡Fantastico! ¡Gracias, amigo!

129 Tumulus  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:49:04am

" We created a United Nations Security Council, so that – unlike the League of Nations – our deliberations would be more than talk, and our resolutions would be more than wishes. ....... The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of U.N. demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding or will it be irrelevant? " President George W. Bush addressing the United Nations General Assembly - September 12, 2002. The United Nations Security Council, led by the ambassadors of Germany and France, made it's decision and the U.N. is now irrelevant - in essence a modern League of Nations. " For diplomacy to be effective, words must be credible, and no one can now doubt the word of America. " President Bush : State of the Union Address - January 20, 2004. ......... As for the United Nations, it can stay at it's present address or it can go somewhere else. It's really irrelevant.

130 zed  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:49:21am
131 ploome  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:50:03am

&trade

132 Occasional Reader, coño!  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:50:03am

Colt--from your link in #42:

Now, the usual response of governments is mere condemnation of an atrocity, describing an outrage as "unacceptable". Next come a string of concessions to the offender, leading to a craven suggestion that the victims must share some of the blame, and then concessions to the demands of the perpetrators.

Exactly. Or, as the Torah puts it, if I'm not mistaken (joos, please correct me if I am): those who are kind to the cruel, will wind up being cruel to the kind.

133 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:51:48am

Thom & papijoe: You can also do Alt + 164 (with "Num Lock" on) to make ñ.

134 Promethea  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:55:03am

I haven't read any of the comments above, as yet, but I must say that this is a great idea! Dar es Salaam would be an especially appropriate place for the UN. It is close to 50 or 60 countries in Africa, plus those Indian Ocean countries you've all heard of (just kidding), plus it's the gateway to Asia.

So, what's not to like about Dar es Salaam. And there would be so many more parking spaces in New York City.

135 Gordon  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:56:37am

#108 Bigel: The European anti-semitism outlined in the recent report is despicable, but to compare it to what the Nazis did (or the Romanians, Croatians, French, etc.) in the 1930's and 40's is facially absurd. It's like comparing a plantar wart to pancreatic cancer.

136 Señor papijoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:58:03am

#133 Occasional Reader

¡Coño, you're right, homb'e!

137 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:00:08am

Gordon (#101)

Bigel: If you were writing in 1944, your Europhobia would be valid. Unfortunately for you, it is 2004. Time to leave your time warp.

Strangely, both Italy and France have stated that they're committed to fighting anti-Semitism in their respective countries. If there wasn't a problem why would they do that?

138 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:00:18am

"facially absurd"?

{tee hee}

Did you mean "prima facie absurd"?

All those latinisms in law school must be hell for you ...

139 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:01:40am

Why do I bother?

140 Tilly  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:03:35am

Bitter social worker that I am, I've long lamented the corruption of "humanitarian organizations". Yes, let's rmove UN workers, salt of the earth that they are, away from grotesque American capitalism. Send them to Mugabe's Zimbabwe, about as far away from the "ugly American" as you can get.

141 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:03:50am

guys, There is no United Nations. There is only the League of Nations 2.0

142 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:03:54am

I suppose we should just pretend that none of this is happening either.

143 Mr Pol  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:05:11am

#139 zulubaby

Why do I bother?

Good question.

144 Paladin  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:07:25am

#139 zulubaby

Because you care. And so do the overwhelming majority of people on this blog.

145 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:09:00am

Colt #24--from your OTHER link (damn, you're Mr. Telegraph today!):

President Jacques Chirac has led the drive to ease sanctions imposed after the Tiananmen Square massacre of students in 1989, hoping to benefit from China's economic growth and draw Asia's rising power into strategic "multipolar" alliance with the EU to counter American hegemony.

Why, it's almost as if Jacques is proposing to form some sort of, I dunno, Axis of Evil, or something. The good news of about that; being bald, he'll require far less grooming when Task Force 121 eventually pulls him out of his hidey-hole.

I'd love to be able to back up the above statement with quotes from Jacques himself (or his retinue). I.e., quotes along the lines of "we want to team up with Communist China against the US". Anybody know of any?

146 Outsider  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:09:13am

#132 - Occasional Reader

those who are kind to the cruel, will wind up being cruel to the kind.


replace "kind" with "merciful" and you'll get it right.

147 ploome  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:09:58am

excellent question Mr Pol

giving that POgordoSh*t any acknowlegement keeps him here

to him....contempt is better than being ignored.

148 eytoronto  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:10:42am

to #33:
My mother and grandmother survived Stutthoff. I've never seen that site; thank you for posting that link.

149 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:10:48am

Mr Pol (#143)

Where there's life, there's hope, but I'm beginning to think he's actually a spam-bot. Or something equally lifeless.

150 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:12:50am

"The good news of about that"??? Did I really type that? Qué coñazo...

151 Ed Moran abu Halal for the Eid  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:14:26am

Is 140 Tilly the WTC survivor Tilly?

152 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:14:39am

Folks, give Gordon some credit, he's actually come a long way.

And, by the way, he's not exactly the only one here who thinks bigel is wayyyy over the top.

153 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:16:09am

#149 zulubaby

Keep your spirits up! Think of it not so much as trying to penetrate the bozone layer around Gor-don's "brain," but rather as presenting facts to anyone who might be inclined to Gor-don's opinions if they didn't know any better.

154 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:18:12am

Occasional Reader (#152)

Folks, give Gordon some credit, he's actually come a long way.

Credit for what?

155 ploome  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:19:29am

154 zulubaby

yeah.....give the bozone credit for what?

156 pragmatist  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:21:18am

OT

I'm sure this isn't politically correct but
I find it hard to resist. As this news reminds
me of the punchline ... "A Good Start"


=============================

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two CNN employees have
been killed in an ambush in Iraq, the international
television news organisation says.

157 Big Ern  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:21:26am

Frankly, I'm surprised there's not more dissent from LGF'ers on this.

As much as Americans may believe the UN is irrelevant, the rest of the world does not. Like it or not, a large part of the world sees the UN as the only tanglible counterweight to American power. And so, if you force the UN out of the US and into the Middle East, you will have suddenly made the Middle East more relevant.

Is that really what you want?

Think it through.
You know, "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

158 Promethea  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:22:15am

From what I can determine, Gordon seems to have a reflexive negativity--driving him to find some way to disagree with the majority, no matter what they say. This is kind of the opposite of "group think"--"ungroup think"?

159 observer  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:23:38am

#152, Occasional Reader

Bigel over the top?

Half over--in his eagerness to nuke.

But not in his view of European Jew-hating, relentless since the Middle Ages and resurgent AFTER the holocaust.

160 Dean Douthat  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:23:41am

Occasional Reader:

I believe that quote is from Talmud, not Torah.

161 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:29:43am

zulubaby and ploome: I've seen a surprising number of posts from Gordon in the last few months which struck me as sensible. E.g., he seems to have accepted the fact that there IS a war going on against islamofascism, this is not just some fear tactic cooked up by Bushhitler.

#157 Big Ern:

And so, if you force the UN out of the US and into the Middle East, you will have suddenly made the Middle East more relevant.

I understand what you're saying. I suspect that the actual consequence of such a move, though, would in fact be to turn the UN into an utterly meaningless third-world talk shop, along the lines of the Organization for African Unity or the Arab League. But I can't say for sure--you could well be right. I think my preferred solution--and I suspect many LGFers would agree--would be either radical reform of the UN, or a reconstituted UN, in either case one composed only of democracies. At a minimum. That, combined with a redefinition of that entity's role; it is not meant to be a world government or a world legislature, rather a meeting point for sovereign nations to discuss differences. I'd be perfectly happy to have such an organization HQ'd in New York City.

162 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:30:15am

#157 Big Ern

"Counterweight to American power"? For the love of ...

As far as the UN goes, they are irrelevant, a pain in the ass, and cost us a lot of money besides.

We should withdraw and show them the door. Then start over with an international organization of democracies who actually care about human rights - not an organization of idiots and dicktators trying to be a "counterweight to American power". The US, UK, Australia, Israel, etc., could be charter members.

Frawnce and fellow travellers can then sit in Geneva sucking their thumbs and loudly insisting that they are not irrelevant.

It might take one more world war to settle everyone's hash, but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth it in the long run.

163 Nancy  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:34:36am

As for the economic argument of maintaining the headquarters in the United States there is no basis the employees/staff would contribute more than they drain. That's 17 acres of prime real estate, all tax exempt --no building permits required, no city or state taxes, no property taxes --no licenses, no fees.

The UN headquarters, which sits on a 17-acre plot in Manhattan next to the East River, is an international territory and has thus far escaped from being required to comply with US building and working regulations. [Link: www.globalpolicy.org...]

164 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:35:00am

#160 Dean Talhout:

I believe that quote is from Talmud, not Torah.

Well, I knew it was something Jewish beginning with the letter "T"... at least I didn't say it was from "Fiddler on the Roof"!

165 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:35:21am
166 Beth  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:36:33am

#125 CCR

Well, you're kinda sorta right about the moon. It cannot be claimed by any one nation, but there's a guy (I can get all the details if anyone actually cares) who sent a resolution to the UN, and it passed because it wasn't turned down (or something like that) that makes it legal for individuals to own a portion of the moon. So, for my birthday, my dh and my kids bought me an acre of the moon. I have the chart with the coordinates and the deed and everything. Oh, yeah, and I have mineral rights for my acre. Do I think it's legit? Not particularly. Would I sell my acre to the UN? If the price was right.

167 pope urban XXIII  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:37:17am

Terrific idea in putting the U.N. on an old cruise ship and putting her afloat on the high seas...until she sinks of course. I can see it now: "Pirates of the Carribean II-Hide Your Wallets, Your Liquor, and Your Jews." Sure fire winner for best horror flick of 2004.

Maybe putting them up in a plane circling the earth would be a better choice? It could be called: "Kofi, Tea, or Me." We could use Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet. Just think of the comedic possibilities of having that bunch of idiots swooping overhead as the public watches them slurp cocktails and throw shoes at each other.

I think that sending the bunch to Saudi Arabia is too much like a permanent vacation in Vegas. I am thinking more along the lines of North Korea. No need to worry about parking tickets because none of them would be allowed to have a car. No need to listen to their drivel because radios are not allowed. Expense accounts for meals would save a bundle to the taxpayers. How much would the bark off of a tree from the park possibly cost in a Pyongyang Four Star restaurant anyway? If they got their hands on some rice chances are it was donated food aid anyway. Of course if they want to order the North Korean Meat Stew they are supporting the U.N. Commission on Over-Population. A win-win situation all the way 'round if you ask me.

168 Señor papijoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:38:55am

It seemed like LGF was down for a minute there.

¡Coño, I always break out in a cold sweat when that happens!

169 Rick  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:41:42am

#129: Agreed

From the article:

When America was the leader of a successful wartime coalition—and the world wished it to continue in that role—it made excellent sense to place UN headquarters in New York.

I've got a crazy theory about the UN. That "successful wartime coalition" is the key.

The theory? The United Nations was created in 1945 with the primary intent of preventing Germany from starting World War Three somewhere around the year 1965 (probably a reasonable expectation based on what Germany did in the first half of the 20th Century). The assumption was that the five original Allies would always stand shoulder-to-shoulder to achieve that goal. All this crap about "international deliberation" was just a smokescreen to provide a polite cover for the true intent.

Well, great. The UN served its purpose (and I'm glad), the Germans aren't about to start a new world war. Time to scrap it, because it's been a miserable failure at just about everything else it has tried to do.

My statement when people say "But we need the UN" is "You want an international organization to settle disputes? Fine, I can see the need for that. But the UN isn't it, and wasn't really ever supposed to be it. All it was designed to do was to keep Germany in line, and that task is complete now."

That's just my opinion.

170 rayra[deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:42:05am
171 J.D.  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:42:48am

OT re: Iran
href="http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?st oryID=4220296" target="_blank">Defector: Bin Laden Son 'Forewarned Iran of 9/11'

Iran and Castro: October surprises

172 Bill  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:43:35am

#56 Gordon,

I thinky your predictions of financial disaster in the event of the UN's removal are just a bit overblown. Consider the following employee listings for just a few NYC-based companies:

Morgan Stanley: 51,196
JPMorgan Chase: 93,453
AOL Time Warner: 91,250
Bristol Myers Squibb: 44,000
Viacom: 120,630
Citigroup: 250,000

How many people does the UN employ, in total? About 15,000 - about as many as the NY Times (12,500). You fail to understand that New York City is the United States' center of publishing, finance, entertainment,...you name it. The "loss" of the U.N. would be noticed, but would mean very little in terms of long-term economic effects.

173 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:43:50am

#168 Señor papijoe:

¡Coño, I always break out in a cold sweat when that happens!

Pero cuando vuelva LGF, eso sí es la ñapa!

174 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 10:49:49am

Today's Little Green Footballs is brought to you by the letter "ñ".

Hey--we could rename the UN the "United Ñoños" ("ñoño" = spineless), or the "UÑ" for short.

175 Paladin  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 11:32:27am

Wow! Sure took a long time to refresh. Anyone else?

177 Señor papijoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 11:36:11am

#173 Occasional Reader

¿Que significa "ñapa"? No encuentro en mi diccionario. ¿Es una maldicion?

¿Adivino que su Español es de Venezuela, si?

178 Butthead_reloaded  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 11:48:33am
AMEN, brother. i was in a cab passing the UN last night and had to both avert my eyes and flip it the bird. AND TAKE YOUR SCOFFLAW "DIPLOMATS" WITH YOU!

Holy crap! I do this EVERY TIME I drive by that worthless complex. The line "screw you, you good for nothing pro-terror scum" flash through my mind as well.

179 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 11:49:25am

lFg is sooooo sloooooooooow ..........

Users Online: 1103

180 Let's Roll  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 11:56:15am

Feels like LGF is under attack. Think there's really 1100 people online here right now?

Also, very moving and sad story here.

Baghdad Once Had Thousands of Jewish Residents; Today, About 21 Survive

It may be the most secret location in all of Baghdad.

There is no sign outside — no visible markings whatsoever, just a plain metal gate in a brick wall, no different from any other house on the block.

Chances are if you come knocking, the nervous man who answers will say no one is home.

"Please," he told our translator, "just go away."

Baghdad's last synagogue is tucked in a side street of what used to be a mostly Jewish neighborhood, one of several in the Iraqi capital.

But the Jews are long gone.

The only hint that they used to live here is the subtle pattern in the arrangement of the bricks and mortar, one brick in a dozen placed at an odd angle, a secret code embedded in the architecture. It's so discreet that the current inhabitants of those houses probably haven't even noticed it. But once someone points it out, you begin to see it everywhere.

In 1948, there were more than 150,000 Jews living in Baghdad. Now there are 21 left.

And later, there's this:

Those who remained were subject to decades of persecution. Zionism was a capital offense under the Baath Party.

In 1969, half a million Iraqis celebrated in the streets when a dozen Jewish "spies" were publicly hanged. Later, a pro-Palestinian gunman opened fire in another Baghdad synagogue.

181 Señor papijoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:03:31pm

#179 Thom

The number of people online shouldn't slow things down that much. Maybe it's the new virus going around.

Or maybe we're saying coño too much...

182 ErnieG  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:07:18pm

#179 thom

I've noticed the slowness on other sites as well. It could be due to the huge amount of virus-related traffic.

183 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:11:16pm

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!

I'd love it of a leftist pundit could name just ONE success story accomplished by the UN. JUST ONE!?!?!

*uncomfortable silence*

There is no such success; Only corruption of the highest order.

184 SoCalJustice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:15:29pm

(#120) Outsider

Sure, no problem. Happy to help out.

185 Colt - Mr Telegraph  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:17:31pm

#145 OR

The good news of about that; being bald, he'll require far less grooming when Task Force 121 eventually pulls him out of his hidey-hole.

But being French, he'll need a hell of a scrubbing down :-)

186 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:18:42pm

Jonah Goldberg has some comments on this topic.

[Link: www.townhall.com...]

187 Colt - Mr Telegraph  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:19:57pm

#157 Big Ern

And so, if you force the UN out of the US and into the Middle East, you will have suddenly made the Middle East more relevant.

It will streamline EU-Arab League meetings, but the EUrocrats would oppose it because they'd make less profit fiddling their expenses.

188 sharona  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:34:48pm

Colt & Outsider:

That Eiffel Tower lit in red in is priceless. Here in Chicago, some a$$hat has lit the Wrigley Building in shamrock green, and as you head north on Michigan Avenue from the Loop it looks like the Emerald City. Too much of a good thing, I'd say.

OT: Drudge has his "police light" icon highlighting one fabulous headline:

EXIT POLLS: KERRY, DEAN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE SLUGFEST

Would that that were so! I'd pay big money to watch that, although my money would be on Dean. Kerry may have the edge in height and reach, but Dean would likely play dirty (with Franken as his "blood man" in the corner)!

189 Wild Justice  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:35:14pm

NRO ranks Johnson's "Modern Times" among its 100 greatest works of non-fiction of the 20th century. (In the top 10 if my wonky memory serves me right.)

And, Colt, I've been following Jay Nordlinger's scintillating Davos reports as well. Then again I follow everything Jay writes.

190 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:40:35pm

#177 Sr. Papijoe:

¿Que significa "ñapa"? No encuentro en mi diccionario. ¿Es una maldicion?

Time for a new dictionary! (Harper Collins is a good one.) "La ñapa" means an extra or bonus; it's been anglicized into the oddly French-looking "lagniappe".

¿Adivino que su Español es de Venezuela, si?

Nope. Mostly Peru, with some other influences.

Colt #185:

But being French, he'll need a hell of a scrubbing down :-)

And I'm not sure Task Force 121 will have a bidet handy.

Over and out.

191 JimInMPLS  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:42:18pm

This is painfully sloooooooow. I guess I will go home and read from there. At least I can have a beer while I refresh there. ;-)

192 bad elvin  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:47:05pm

apologies if this from that scumbag Pilger has been posted previously, but it has me so pissed off right now...

Do you think the anti-war movement should be supporting Iraq's anti-occupation resistance?
Yes, I do. We cannot afford to be choosy. While we abhor and condemn the continuing loss of innocent life in Iraq, we have no choice now but to support the resistance, for if the resistance fails, the “Bush gang” will attack another country. If they succeed, a grievous blow will be suffered by the Bush gang.

disgusting.

193 Wild Bill Hiccup  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 12:51:20pm
194 Colt - Mr Telegraph  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 1:12:27pm

#188 sharona

Did you see the way Buckingham Palace was lit up over New Years? It was awesome :-)

#189 Wild Justice

It was you who put me on to his reports on Davos; thanks. I'll be a regular reader of his from now on.

195 Thom  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 1:15:22pm

#192 bad elvin

Isn't that pretty much the definition of treason?

196 martinS  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 1:17:39pm

183,

The UN has done one or two good things. The first and second ceasefires in the war for independence in Israel were negotiated by the UN. Israel took a huge advantage out of both ceasefires, a lot more than the arabs that were attacking did.

They are basically worthless but you can’t say they’ve NEVER done anything good.

197 Evan  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 1:42:09pm

I can't believe I'm the first person to suggest this but, magazine headquarters can be relocated too. The rich playboy lifestyle certainly hurts all New Yorkers equally.

198 Donna V.  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 2:36:22pm

I'm having fun imagining the look on UN staffer's faces after they're told they're leaving the City That Never Sleeps for Dar es Saleem or some other 3rd World craphole. How many of those "idealists" would stay with the UN if they couldn't enjoy NY's many licit and illicit pleasures while flouting NY's laws and spitting on the host country on the floor of the General Assembly? I suspect that many of the UN delegates from poor countries come from the rich elite and join the UN to get away from the poverty and misery of the Third World. At the UN, they can pretend they're doing something for their lowly countrymen without actually being surrounded by them. Telling them they'll be trading in a cushy East Side apartment for one of those godawful Third World urban apartment blocks where the water and the AC are iffy - well, screw that!

I love the idea, but I doubt it will come to be any time soon.

And yes, Modern Times is a wonderful history of the 20th century and I highly recommend it.

There appears to be a strong Anti-Idiotarian gene embedded in certain folks with the surname of Johnson. :-)

199 Vik Rubenfeld  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 2:51:12pm

I posted on a related subject yesterday -- How Terrorists Out-Maneuvered the U.N.

-Vik

200 daniel  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 3:09:58pm

Yes, the UN will move, probably to Jerusalem to "Bring in a age of Peace for the Whole World".

Or some other nonsense they dream up to defy God.

What an ugly beast she is!!!

201 Shelagh Delves-Broughton aka ShiksaGrrrl in T.O.  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 3:23:29pm

#198 Donna V.


So dead on....how many of them would leave if they were posted elsewhere!


Great article and I am suprised I havent seen more calilng for the ouster of the UN in NYC.


Bye Bye Kofi ;-)

202 Alan Kellogg  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 3:32:32pm

#28 BIG

Doesn't the world already have a land sharing agreement on Antartica? I can think of no better place for the UN then on Antartica.

-----

Best site, at the Mountains of Madness

(The hardcore Lovecraft geeks can explain.:))

203 BPP  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 3:47:12pm

#18 del

Paul Johnson is a fantastic writer of "popular" (i.e. readable) history. Read his History of the Jews or his book Birth of the Modern or Intellectuals. All are extremely entertaining and worth picking up.

Sadly, when it comes to commentary on current affairs, my sense is that he's getting a reputation as a bit of a crackpot. He's unambiguously pro-American, which of course makes his suspect among the chattering classes in the UK. None of that is reason not to read him. He excels at the provocative essay, of which this is a fine example. The other one I remember recently was his proposal that the UK should become part of the US. That raised a few hackles on the other side of the pond.

204 Amy  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 4:09:37pm

I'm another New Yorker firmly in favor of evicting those obnoxious squatters from some of the most valuable real estate in the country, if not the world. Not to mention all of the mansions on the Upper East Side that the embassies and consulates own and pay no taxes on and all of the curbside parking spaces that they hog.

I think that NY would come out ahead financially once the tax dollars started rolling in.

As usual, Gordon is talking out of his ass.

205 Promethea  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 4:32:47pm

Let's take a vote. In fact, this might be a good subject for a poll.

Should the UN be:
. Kept in NYC
. Relocated to Dar es Salaam
. Remodeled to be a "League of Democracies"
. Restructured so that France is replaced by India on the Security Council
. (etc.)

206 ploome  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 4:44:49pm

204 Amy

lol

and thats no mean trick, while his head is up there also.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH

207 mpax  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 4:48:13pm

#205
Add this: Should the US pull out?

208 Frank IBC  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:02:44pm

Actually the Baluchistan Desert of Pakistan is closest to the geographical center of the Eurafrasian landmass. Although Timbuktu would be nice too.

Sites closer to home include Paramus, New Jersey, Glen Burnie, Maryland, Veirs Mill Road in Wheaton and Rockville, Maryland...

209 Frank IBC  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:05:23pm

Put it in Mecca. Just a few crappy old buildings that can be easily removed.

210 Frank IBC  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:10:57pm

I second Promethea's votes for a League for Democracies, as well as replacing France with India on the Security Council

/moonbat on

The UN should be relocated to a site next to the rebuilt Temple/Beit Ha-Miqdash, with the Secretary-General being the heir to the Throne of David.

/moonbat off

211 HULUGU  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:11:04pm

mpax#207--"should the u.s. pull out"--yes--and so should have arafat's father--ba dum dum

212 manifest destiny  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:43:04pm

Paris might be happy to take the UN.

To hell with this organization if it stands opposed to the principle that might makes right and that it is the nature of the strong and rich to crush the weak and poor. We can then get back to the business of pre-emptory war against any has-been third world dictator who doesn't play by our rules and happens to be sitting on a lot of oil.

...at least while we can afford it, until we go broke like every other over-extended empire.

And just for the record...
[Link: www.clw.org...]

213 Robert Schwartz  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:47:15pm

Hey Kofi:

Listen Dude, whenever you are ready let me know, I will help you pack. No, Baby you don't have to pay me, I'll even bring the beer.

-----------------------

Note to self: Wouldn't a condo with a nice view of the river be cool!

214 HULUGU  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 5:50:27pm

#212-manifest destiny--spoken like a true kurd whose mother was gassed or shite whose brother was found in a mass grave--your such a humanitarian peacenik warmongerer--foad

215 DJ  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 6:09:25pm

I'd rather see the building used for the homeless!!

216 Geepers  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 6:14:46pm

From the immutable words of NYC cabbie Harry Canyon from the movie Heavy Metal
“The U.N. Building. What a joke! They turned it into low rent housing. It's a dump.”

217 cubanbob  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 6:49:01pm

212 what a joke! The UN is in PJ O'Rourke's words "a parliament of whores"

I say let's offer the whores the follwing proposition:
A) the US continues it's present levels of funding and troop commitments in return for the UN to move to the Central African Republic...
B)stay in New York but the US contribution falls to the French level plus all un-paid parking fines,taxes,rents,utilities and other sundry unpaid bills are debited from the US financial contribution.

Lets have a show of votes to seee which option would be prefered.

218 Alan K. Henderson  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 7:22:15pm

I've long suggested that after evicting the UN from Manhattan, its headquarters should be converted into a hospice for refugees fleeing tyrranical regimes that the UN appeases.

219 Evan  Tue, Jan 27, 2004 9:56:39pm

Memo to Forbes: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. What you people should be calling for is the removal of private corporations that are headquartered in Manhattan. They too obviously suffer from what Paul Johnson derides as "the playboy element".
America first, baby. Leave the diplomats there and move all of the Manhattanites to Dar es Salaam for their own good. (voluntary disclosure: I live in Queens, and to my frustration have been little corrupted by this 'playboy element').

220 Rick Z  Wed, Jan 28, 2004 3:50:04am

# 186 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs:

Here's a quote of Mr. Goldberg's that just made my day, snow and all!

"The U.N. has been declared 'irrelevant' or 'obsolete' more times than Betamax or eight-track tapes, and yet, like herpes, it just won't go away."

221 David2  Wed, Jan 28, 2004 4:16:23am

One of my favorite places, The Belmont Club, mentions LGF this morning and goes on to elaborate on the death of the UN. Time of death is also noted: September 11, 2001.

222 Jed  Wed, Jan 28, 2004 4:51:26am

My suggestion:

Sahara desert
Outer Mongolia (way out)
Siberia (near the gulag)
Antarctica

223 KJM  Fri, Jan 30, 2004 4:35:48pm

Put it in Jerusalem.


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