The reason why the moon-god worshippers don't fear us is because we act like snivelling cowards. If America had responded to 9/11 by saying, "okay you had your fun now we'll have ours" and then proceeded to deport every Saracen in the U.S. and turn Mecca and Medina into a sheet of glass, you wouldn't see British Muslims making rap videos about their death cult.

Look at what happened in New York, when the authorities started deporting the Pakistani death cultists - the entire Umma left when they realize that they are not wanted.

The first anecdote in that story is hilarious.
The part where it seems the President is taking advice from him, and heeding it, is very, very encouraging.

Mr. Lewis also met privately with Mr. Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice. Mr. Frum says he soon noticed Mr. Bush carrying a marked-up article by Mr. Lewis among his briefing papers.

RTWT, I think anything with a online.wsj.com URL is liable to disappear into pay-for-it land tomorrow.

Actually read this article earlier today in print. I knew Lewis was influential, but had *no idea* he was so intimately connected with the Bushies, and that Dubya actually carries around Lewis articles with him. I must say, I was happy to read that.

But I thought Dubya didn't read?

The question which we should be asking is why do they neither fear nor respect us?”

Answer: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and yes, Colin Powell.

why do they neither fear nor respect us?

Why, that statement is just begging to be the next lgf poll.

They don't fear us because we (America and Americans) will never be as brutal, as oppressive and as backward as the nations from which Islamic people come. I have had Muslim immigrants tell me how "democracy doesn't really work, it is a failure", a setup for their argument that Allah's law (Sharia) is the only answer, how Islamic culture is better than Western culture, how Islamic families are better than Western families, on and on. I have looked such people in the face and said, "Then why are you here? Why didn't you stay in your Islamic Paradise instead of coming to the infidel West?" I get nothing but dead silence.

I have asked "Why has Judeo-Christian culture so far exceeded what your homelands have been capable of", and at that point they usually just go apeshit. Simply put, Muslims are so deep into reality denial, they expect to find comfortable homes in the West and they expect to depend on our decency, opportunity and embrace of other cultures instead of asking themselves why their own culture has failed so miserably. These are pathetic, wretched people who have no idea of what is needed to constitute a modern society.

These are the kind of idiots who would gladly install the Taliban everywhere and see the clock on progress turned back, because having everyone suffer in an Islamic nightmare would serve the need of their wounded pride. They don't understand the ideals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, even as they rush to the West to achieve these goals.

OT

Gee, I wonder which side NYT is taking on this issue:

Military Service Becomes Weapon in a Kerry-Bush Race

In March 1969, John Kerry, a 25-year-old Navy lieutenant, reached down from the boat he was piloting in Vietnam's treacherous Bay Hap River and in a spray of enemy fire pulled a soldier out of the water to safety. For his valor, Mr. Kerry won the Bronze Star with a combat "V" and his third Purple Heart.

That very same month, George W. Bush was on far-safer ground in Valdosta, Ga., learning to fly fighter planes for the Texas National Guard, a coveted post that greatly reduced any risk that he would be sent to Vietnam — and one that he might not have obtained had his father not been a member of Congress.

I guess they forgot to mention that Kerry came back to shit on the very veterans he served with and wiped his ass with the medals.

The best thing the Muslim world did for themselves was to murder 3,000 people in one day. Despite victories against a relative few leaders and foot soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan (praiseworthy victories that can benefit us), things have pretty much rolled their way.

Suddenly all throughout the West many are bending over to kiss their asses. Aid is pouring into their countries like never before. We have to pay to rebuild the countries the Taliban and Saddam Hussein ruined. It has become taboo to tell them that their bigotry, murder and human rights abuses are wrong. Israel must be pressured and penalized more than ever. Photo-ops for politicians at the local mosque must be taken. Islam must be proclaimed the Religion of Peace. Sex-segregated prayer rooms, burkas and hijabs must be embraced by all. What CAIR says matters, true or not. Children are forced to act like devout Muslims in public school. Expressions of Christianity and Judaism are (even more than before) oppressive and exclusive. On and on and on.

Don't believe it? How much have you read about Western nations desperately trying to suck up to the millions and millions of Hindus and Bhuddists in the world? Oh, that's right, those are... wait, there's only one Religion of Peace... can't say that. Let's just say not enough people have died from their "isolated incidents that don't reflect their beautiful, loving faiths" for them to be worth a damn.

The sooner this sick and twisted math changes, the better.

In the past we only acted in a way that invited derision from the Muslim world (and from alot of "average" Americans, I'll add). The only things wealth, prosperity and ease earn is first envy and then hatred.

Fear is earned not from having power, but through using it effectively and overwhelmingly (cf column of fire, drowning whole armies). Respect is earned by acting righteously. Things are a-changin' in the world after Afganistan and Iraq. Syria, Libya and other members of the UN Human Rights Commission are certainly acting more circumspect lately. One or two more bitch slaps on their medieval world will do wonders for generating a healthy amount of fear. Success in Iraq will go a ways towards elicting some grudging respect as well.

Maybe they shouldn't respect us. Granted, I just read the Den Beste thing about polls not always being objective, but the CNN-Gallup poll suggests the USA is nine months away from surrendering the WOT. 53-46%. So about half of all Americans are September 10th people.

No reason to believe John Kerry, who has suggested disbanding the CIA and giving the UN (read: France) veto power over all US use of force, would treat terrorism any differently than his dhimmicrat predecessor..

I'll bet Osama bin Laden (if he is still alive) is kicking himself he couldn't have organized September 11 in, say 1998 or 1999. About a hundred cruise missiles would have rained down on mainly abandoned camps in Afghanistan, the Reno DoJ would have gone to a Grand Jury for a fresh set of indictments against bin Laden, and that would be it. The Taliban and al Qaeda would still be stoning woman in the football stadiums of Afghanistan (some built with Western aid money, IIRC) and life would be going on.

The question which we should be asking is why do they neither fear nor respect us?

Maybe if al-Jazeera started syndicating the Jerry Springer Show they'd start to fear us.

His show's the reason I fear us.

Model4 (#8):

The best thing the Muslim world did for themselves was to murder 3,000 people in one day.

If nothing else, it put the dar-ul-Islam in the spotlight like nothing had before. And for Islam, it appears, no publicity is bad publicity. So, their attention-seeking behavior is definitely paying off.

Remember Islam has done absolutely nothing positive for the world fo many a generation. It only preaches hate and intolerance. It was beaten back by superior forces and then forced to watch other cultures advance and prosper while they remained locked in a stunted backwards religion.

I'll bet Osama bin Laden (if he is still alive) is kicking himself he couldn't have organized September 11 in, say 1998 or 1999. About a hundred cruise missiles would have rained down on mainly abandoned camps in Afghanistan, the Reno DoJ would have gone to a Grand Jury for a fresh set of indictments against bin Laden, and that would be it. The Taliban and al Qaeda would still be stoning woman in the football stadiums of Afghanistan (some built with Western aid money, IIRC) and life would be going on.

God this could keep you up at night. I swear I get cold sweats thinking about how Gore would have hanndled 9-11.

#4
"Answer: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and yes, Colin Powell"

Oh yes! How right you are! You mean Colin "Neville Chamberlain" Powell: the great strategist who stopped our troops short of victory in the first Gulf War, thus ensuring billions of dollars of additional expenses and hundreds (perhaps soon over a thousand) US soldiers deaths in the present campaign.

To think that GW "Religion of Peace" Bush was stupid enough to put the man in his cabinet really boggle my mind, and it did so way before 9/11.

With friends like that, who needs ennemies.

But
GEORGE BUSH IS NOT LISTENING TO EDWARD SAID

Earlier today July 19, 2003), in our critique of Edward Said, (WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE) we drew attention to Raphael Patai's claim that it is a distinctive Arab trait to propound as fact, in flowery, poetic language, that which one would like to see be fact, without the slightest effort to make a connection between the statement and any action to bring about the fact.

We wondered if we would choose to rely on such assertions as facts, and hoped that the visit to Washington of Palestinian Prime Minister Abbas, whom Professor Said characterised as an American puppet, would be fruitful in promoting peace.

The following was not carried in the Irish media, but reported by Toby Harnden of the Telegraph (26 July 2003):

"Standing beside a Palestinian leader at the White House for the first time, President George W Bush yesterday called on Israel to end settlement activity and criticised its security fence as "a problem".

In words that will cause consternation in Israel, Mr Bush described Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian prime minister, as a leader "of vision and courage".

Mr Bush said his confidence in the new Palestinian leadership was growing "because they're people who do what they say".

We are pleased to hear it.

...the CNN-Gallup poll suggests the USA is nine months away from surrendering the WOT. 53-46%. So about half of all Americans are September 10th people.

Don't panic yet, Bush has been sitting back while nine tools attack non-stop.

Once one of the dwarves sinks to the bottom, and is selected as the nominee, the real fireworks begin.

The Presidential debates should be among the best, and most-watched ever. GWB will dish out a Texas-style verbal beating, and I also pity the VP nominee who has to debate Cheney. The State of the Union address, where the Democrats applauded the expiration of the Patriot Act and then got slammed, was a preview of things to come.

The RNC convention will have Bush standing next to The Terminator and Rudy Giuliani.

This is a landslide in the making.
 

00Z models still suggest that while HOU may still be just a shade to far north to get into the warm juicy air surging north from the Yucatan Pensinsula, helicity values near an astounding 500 m^2/s^2 suggest that any thunderstorms that can root in the surface airmass may quickly become tornadic, and even the storms rooted in the slightly elevated warm air riding over the cooler air near the surface will likely become hail producing supercells.

Excessive rainfall is also possible over eastern Texas before 6 pm CST Wednesday, with storm averages over 1.5 inches (3.8cm), and an additional 1.25 inch (3.2cm) between 6 pm CST Wednesday night and 6 pm CST Thursday night, with a dangerous 4 inch (10 cm) + bullseye of rain in eastern Lousiana and western Mississippi near Natchez.

Bed time, going to wake up early to peruse latest soundings and models tomorrow for this potentially exciting early Spring severe event for Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi!

Question 4006 on Ask an Imam:

There has not been any nation on Earth as strong as America (it is claimed). Are there any Ahadith that point towards this 1500 years ago?

The Answer:

We have not come across any Hadith referring to that. However, the Qur'aan speaks about the might and strength of the nations of Aad and Thamud.

According to the descriptions of might and strength of the nations of Aad and Thamud in the Qur'aan, they superceded the might and strength of America but Allah Ta'ala destroyed them within moments of time due to their disobedience in Allah.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Truly spectacular denial.

#7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir):

Interviewer: "Senator Kerry, do you think the fighter pilots and other men and women serving in our National Guard during this war today are cowardly?"

It would be over just like that, with Kerry losing face and probably some votes.

#14 GrimG:

I swear I get cold sweats thinking about how Gore would have hanndled 9-11.

It wouldn't have been his first impulse, and he may not even have wanted to, but I'm convinced he'd have taken down Afghanistan and Iraq. Perhaps without even going to the UN. And he'd have had bipartisan support at home, and probably greater support abroad. Blair would be a hero in the UK. Gore'd have been pushed into it, and might by now be a little drunk with how smoothly everything was going. We could be in Syria or Iran by now. Don't get me wrong, I think overall there'd be several missteps committed by him that'd hurt us more over the long run, but there'd have been advantages too.

He should be required reading in all colleges. That should piss off all the peace-jerks and traitor-enablers!

David (#19)

According to the descriptions of might and strength of the nations of Aad and Thamud in the Qur'aan, they superceded the might and strength of America but Allah Ta'ala destroyed them within moments of time due to their disobedience in Allah.

I don't answer to Allah. Nobody will tell me what to do except my parents. Toffees to Allah.

i always thought the proper question was "why don't we hate them"

#15, T3. A lot of people who don't know better would have picked Powell for the job Rumsfeld has. The question now is who will replace Powell or should he stay right where he is?

It wouldn't have been his first impulse, and he may not even have wanted to, but I'm convinced he'd have taken down Afghanistan and Iraq.

Perhaps Afghanistan, but there is no way Gore would have had the stones to say on March 17, 2003:

"Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing."

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

Not even a .001% chance, IMHO.
 

Thank you Charles for the article and direction. I have a lot of reading to do.

RE #25

Which was prefaced by:

"The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities, so we will rise to ours."
 

Zulubaby (23#)

LOL! I guess ol' Allah's just going to destroy us all then! Bring it on, Allah!

I agree with Will. Based on Gore's actions since the election, he wouldn't have had the guts, or beliefs, to do it.

OT:
Interesting review of Jean-Francois Revel's book on Anti-Americanism:

[Link: innocentsabroad.blogspot.com...]

Here's a solid article by a forensic psychologist on the importance of taking a hard line against terrorists: [Link: www.techcentralstation.com...]

In my private practice, I don't work with terrorists but I do work with violent people. I used to believe (as many of my colleagues still do) that empathizing with my patients and increasing their self-esteem would help them on the path to self-actualization. Of course, for some anxiety-ridden patients who need faith in themselves, the technique of empathy and support works. However, for those patients with serious violent tendencies, just the opposite is true. With those patients, I've found that setting clear boundaries and making judgments about their immoral behavior works like a charm.

Those patients who threatened me backed down only when I got up in their face and told them forcefully to stop -- the slightest hint of fear or intimidation (or sympathy!) on my part was met with increased threats. In the real world of private practice, confronting real murderers, I learned to act in ways that were different from what I had been taught in graduate school.

Unfortunately, there are still those in the ivory tower who have not learned this valuable lesson. They continue to believe that to humanize and to empathize with violent students, professors, and terrorists is the only way to treat those who wish to do them harm. In fact, however, the old saw "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" applies. Without clear boundaries, and a sense of consequences, their behavior will spiral out of control until they injure themselves and others.

Read the whole thing.

#29 FH: After the Clinton administration's definitive declaration of Iraq's WMD violations, and signing into law a policy that calls for the overthrow of his regime? With Republicans and Democrats urging action alike (don't forget all the Dems on record regarding Iraq). With the guarantee that he'd face next to no sniping in the press? With his advisors telling him that if he left Saddam in power and another terrorist attack hit, the Democratic party would be unelectable for at least 20 years, if not forever? With the "peace activists" and internationalists and appeasers as silent as they were in say Haiti or Kosovo? With NOW waving the bloody shirt of female oppression in the Ummah at all times? With "humanitarian NGOs" urging liberation?

Had Gore not taken the fight to another terrorist regime after Afghanistan, he'd face withering daily attacks for his policy of appeasement, an attack the GOP has spent decades innoculating themselves against. Just because he's been on record as attacking George Bush while not in power or running for it, that doesn't mean he'd act according to the principles he's stating today if he'd been elected.

It's counterintuitive and I could well be wrong, but I think Mr. Gore would have become a hawk really fast, one way or the other.

They call themselves: The International Court of Justice

The International Court of Justice (ICJ), which has its seat in The Hague, is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations

And here's their complaint...

LEGAL CONSEQUENCES OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF A WALL IN THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY

# 6 Captain America

"They don't fear us because we (America and Americans) will never be as brutal, as oppressive and as backward as the nations from which Islamic people come."

I largely agree with that. However, I would like to add a point that Victor David Hanson makes very well - when aroused the democratic west can be extraordinarily violent. Not out of a sense of cruelty, but out of the kind of ruthlessness that accompanies a moral certainty that one is justified in defending their homeland. Look at Dresden, Hiroshima, Sherman's march through Atlanta, Rome's sack of Carthage, ect. . . .

I think that the problem is that September 11th didn't really rouse the sleeping giant, to the contrary of what the pundits kept telling us. It certainly roused the right, (and failed to make any dent in the beliefs of the left) but the vast middle of the country isn't quite sure that it is time to be aroused yet.

Ultimately, I fear that it is going to take a nuke going off in an American city to truly arouse this country. That will be a tragedy for both sides. Not only will a lot of our fellow countrymen be dead, but the American response is, how shall we say, not going to be centered around nation-building.

#32, Model 4. While you may be right, I don't think Als skill sets a war leader have ever undergone a test and his tendancy towards caution during the crises that did occur (my opinion) during his tenure leave me less than confident in his crises leadership abilities. Who would have been his cabinet members on 9-11? What compromises would he have made in selecting them? They would have been a big factor in the some and substance of our response to 9-11 and beyond.

#34 happycynic

Good post.

but the vast middle of the country isn't quite sure that it is time to be aroused yet.

We'll see how large a portion the "middle" is come November.

OT

#1 reason to oppose the Gaza retreat

Palestinian PM applauds Gaza resettlement

"Of course, it is good news for us," Qureia told Voice of Palestine radio. "We hope that Israel will withdraw from all Palestinian areas."

Yeah, I bet you do. And now that they've been given an inch, they go for the mile.

Qureia said any Gaza pullout should be followed by a similar Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank, the Ha'aretz News Service reported Tuesday. "Then, there will be a real peace. Otherwise, the situation will remain as is."

When will they learn to never make concessions to these animals?

Model4: I don't believe the poll showing a Kerry win at all--he was barely known outside New England at the time the poll was conducted.

In fact, don't even consider any polls until the spring, when the presumptive Demo nominee is a done deal and Bush and the Repubs start to fully engage the opposition.

We're a long way away from November, at home and overseas.

HULUGU (#23)

LOL, on the bad days, we do.

38 Gary

Yep. If somehow we get OBL (piss be upon him), Bush is a shoe-in.

#13 Lurch

Surely the same Lurch from SigForum. Heya, haven't posted in a long time: I'm sure I posted under P225 or something.

#40 Abu Maven

What do you mean "some how"? Don't we already have him on ice somewhere, wating to spring him as an election suprise?

/Democratic Underground mode

#23 HULUGU

i always thought the proper question was "why don't we hate them"

Absolutely. :) Never mind how much Muslims whine and cry "racism" they know perfectly well that we don't hate them. They don't understand this, or may be for them this means that we don't take them seriously , and hate us even more.

#6 Captain America

Judeo I'll accept but Christian? My ass! The "West" was established by renegades in the Christian societies. Secular individualists who eschewed the non-sense that the Christians had to offer (and were often brutalized in return). The history of progress and the blooming of the "West" was the result of acknowledging the fact that ALL religions were based on fairy tails and deceit. The individualists knew that rational study of ones surroundings and the application of the facts found as a result could and did make life a more pleasurable and rewarding experience.

Heretics as the Christians called them (or infidels as the mohammedans now call them) were tortured and killed much in way current “non-believers” are handled by the muslim hoards that overtake the areas in which they live. Life was squalid, food was scarce, and rulers were brutal, much like the conditions that the muslim assholes still find themselves in. Many have made the observation that the muslims live like the west did in the “Dark Ages”. I ask you, what philosophy/religion reigned during the “Dark Ages”? If you are insisting that the progress and splendor of the “West” is due to the Bible you are a damned fool.

THE difference between the “West” and the roving packs of muslim mongrels is that REASON tamed the Christians.

Model4

The pansy media and the politicians are bending over backwards, because the pansy media (this includes FNC) is still in thrall to PC, and even if certain politicians know the real score, they also know how that same media would flood the papers and airwaves with cries of "racist" for calling Islam like it is.

However, there is still a healthy hostility toward Islam in this country. Example: I like to watch the show Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn on occasion. A lot of LGFers would find this show terribly offensive (it offends me on a regular basis), but the point of the show is to engage in pure freedom of speech. They knock race/sex/religion every day. And they really slam Islam and Arab countries---on a regular basis.

Just tonight there was a whole segment entitled "God vs. Allah", in which two actors posing as the deities (God in white angelic garb, Allah in Arab-style robes with the little box-hat) sat on bean bag chairs on either side of Colin Quinn and argued. It was stated very clearly that they were not one and the same deity. Then God called Allah a "copycat" who stole some of God's material from the Bible and then made up the rest of what's in the Koran (*gasp* somebody on Quinn's staff has apparently read the Koran). God dropped lines like this:

"Islam is like smoking. It looks cool, but it kills."

And then God pulled out a Koran which had a cigarette-style warning label on it, stating that Islam causes death and "no birth weight".

Quinn then asked them if there was anything they could agree on.
---
God&Allah: "No Jews!!!"

(pause)

God, with a huge grin: "I'm kiiiddiiing!!!"

(pause)

Allah, with a fierce scowl: "I'm not."
---
This is significant in three ways: 1) Islam is clearly identified as hostile and dangerous to non-believers. 2) Even moreso to the Jews. 3) God and Allah are not one and the same.

Yes, big mainstream shows aren't dealing with these issues (well, "24" sort of did), but then, they weren't dealing with these issues before 9/11 anyway. Pre-9/11 we got the occasional movie with Muslim terrorists, but they were always fanatics---never was "Islam" spelled out as the true problem. "Tough Crowd" spells it out as such on a regular basis, to uproarious applause.

You should watch it sometime, it might make you feel better (when it's not offending the hell out of you).

Here is an interesting almost two years old article about Lewis's 'Domino theory'. Luckily, the link is still alive so I don't have to C&P it.

There is no mention of lewis's position of influence with the White House, and the whole tone of the article is much more PC, tho' it does come through that Lewis doe not think much, to say the least, of the current ME regimes.

#44 Dan G

I ask you, what philosophy/religion reigned during the “Dark Ages”?

Catholicism in the West

If you are insisting that the progress and splendor of the “West” is due to the Bible you are a damned fool.

Painting, sculpture, music and the jurisprudence of Europe at that time were largely inspired by the Bible.

You have the right to your opinions, but you don't have the right to label Captain America a fool.

#44 Dan G

.. even less, a 'damned' fool.

OT:
An Egyptian sold "Dog meat" as lamb, for Eid:

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

A PUPPY ENTERS THE PROPHET'S HOUSE

This episode is recorded in the Commentary of the Baydawi (p. 802); the "Itqan", by the Suyuti (part I, p. 92), and Asbab al-Nuzul (p. 299). This narrative is related to us because the infidel said that inspiration had departed from Muhammad and his God had deserted him. The Suyuti says:

"Khawla, Muhammad’s servant said, ‘A puppy entered under the bedstead in the prophet’s home and died. For four days the inspiration ceased to descend on
Muhammad. He said to me what happened in the house of the apostle of God to make Gabriel cease to come to me?’ I told myself, ‘What if I neatly prepared and
swept the house?’ I swept under the bedstead and brought out the puppy. The prophet came in with a trembling beard, for whenever inspiration descends on
him he would be taken by a seizure. God sent down at that time five verses from the Surah (chapter) of Duha."

It is well-known that the chapter of Duha is made up of only eleven verses. God sent half of it to assure Muhammad that He had not abandoned him. Infidels
claimed that God had deserted Muhammad because inspiration ceased to descend upon him because a puppy entered his home and died under the bedstead. Gabriel, as the Bukhari recorded, had already told Muhammad that he would not enter a house which has a dog or a picture. The Suyuti stated that Muslim religious
scholars (among them Abu Hajr) said that the story of Gabriel’s hesitancy to enter Muhammad’s house because of the puppy is very famous.

Bon appetit!

Blah, don't bother. Objectivist and/or atheist who prefers not to think that many of the concepts from which the Enlightenment came out of where religiously based.

"Dignity"-God given right

"Freedom"-God given right, think Free Will

"natural rights"-came about because of the concept of God given rights, but expanded to include things which Christianity didn't touch.

It should be noted that Christianity didn't go bad until about the same period that Islam showed up. Which should cause some to wonder what the connection between the two, and some other factor, might be.

#50 FH

Agree with your post, but can you enlarge on your statement below?

It should be noted that Christianity didn't go bad until about the same period that Islam showed up. Which should cause some to wonder what the connection between the two, and some other factor, might be.

My point was this: that Christianity "went bad" thanks to the influence of invading nomadic barbarian tribes, who overran much of Europe and finished off the already corrupt and dead to the core (western) Roman Empire. In their invasions, they eventually converted to Christianity, but in the process also shaped it in negative ways. Some pagan ideas seaped in, and the culture in which Christianity resided became much more brutal. Thus Christianity lost (either in fact or through perversion) much of the higher points: love of neighbor, charity, welcoming strangers, etc. At first it was just the "people" who were "barbaric", but some of this eventually became part of the religion as a whole. Think Spanish Conquistidores. Eventually Heathens were treated by Christians as much as Infidels were by Muslims. Barbarian influence.

And Islam's barbaric nature is easy enough to observer. Those were barbaric times, and that is plainly visible in the formal structure of Islam, and the path Christianity unfortunately took for many centuries.

San Antonio, San Marcos, Austin, Houston, Lake Charles and Lafayette to be Destroyed This Afternoon*

STEEPENING LAPSE RATES AND STRONG DEEP
LAYER SHEAR FROM 70 TO 80 KT WILL RESULT IN AN INCREASING SUPERCELL THREAT IN AREAS SOUTHEAST OF I-35 FROM AUSTIN TO SAN ANTONIO DURING THE LATE AFTERNOON AND EVENING HOURS. A TORNADO THREAT WILL ALSO EXIST ALONG THE MIDDLE TX COAST NEAR AN AXIS OF LOW-LEVEL SHEAR WHERE INSTABILITY WILL BE THE HIGHEST AND LCLS WILL BE LOW.
CONSIDERING THE STRENGTH OF THE LOW-LEVEL SHEAR...IF SFC DEWPOINTS REACH THE UPPER 60S F...A STRONG TORNADO WOULD BE POSSIBLE. LARGE HAIL AND ISOLATED WIND DAMAGE WILL ALSO BE POSSIBLE WITH SUPERCELL STORMS THAT DEVELOP. THESE THREATS WILL REMAIN OR INCREASE AS THE STORMS MOVE EWD INTO SE TX.

* Greater than 5% chance of a tornado within 25 miles.

#52 FH

Thanks, FH - a very interesting point, the difference being that barbarity is definitely NOT sanctioned in Christianity, whereas it is part of the fabric of Islam.

#44 Dan G

Nice rant, but you really need to try some history. Most of the advancements and art of the West after 435 were made by faithful Christians. Galileo, Copernicus, DaVinci, etc. The Dark Ages were called such not because of barbarism, but because of the dearth of records and art compared to the recently ended Roman Age. The Renaisance occurred and spread with prosperity and learning. These to factors also led to (were NOT caused by) the restoration of the seperation between the secular and theological realms.

The West hasn't sunk to the level of the Islamic world since the dawn of the polis in ancient Greece.

The Greeks invented algebra, the Arabs just provided the name that stuck. I have often wondered how much of the "Islamic Golden Age" was the work of the house Jews?

#49 Camel Prophet

Look at it from Gabriel's point of view, would you want to go into a room with a four-day dead dog?

Ed Moran-LOL! Great headline.

Whatup LGFers,

RaphDaRussian reporting from down under (sydney).

Things here are just as expected. American pop culture at every turn and a deep dislike for American "arrogance" and "self-centeredness" (if that's a word) from every young person

I guess things are the same around the world

Peace,
RaphDaRussian

I read the other day that Kerry promised that were he to be elected he would appoint both Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter to serve as special envoys to the mideast.

And anyone can still wonder why we are not feared or respected?

Kerry is a surrendering appeasing coward just like every other Democrat. Kerry will virtually invite terrorism back to our shores. Of course, to better protect us, he'll see to it that we are all disarmed.

Kerry has made his deal with the Clinton's. He will keep the Clinton/McCauliffe gang in control of the party machinery. His nod to Clinton by announcing his special role in the Kerry Administration is all the proof one needs of it. Kerry is a rank opportunist and is a shallow fraud to boot.

I was hoping that the Dean threat to Clinton control of the party machinery would force Hillary into an early run for President in 2004. The Clinton's (with help from the arrogant Dr. Dean) just eviscerated the good Doctor with surgical precision that probably has him green with jealousy. This draft Hillary panic may still happen but it will take a huge gaffe by Kerry to make the Clinton's that desperate. I think Kerry is less likely than Dean to screw it all up.

Remember, since McCain has stipped away your First Amendment rights, don't be shocked when the NYT, CNN and the broadcast networks take control of the information flow in the last 60 days before the election and no one will be able to spend a nickle to refute their pro Dem and anti-Bush propaganda, push polls and blizzard of lies masquerading as "news".

#59:

> I read the other day that Kerry promised that were he to
> be elected he would appoint both Bill Clinton and Jimmy
> Carter to serve as special envoys to the mideast.

I think that's an excellent idea; if I were president I'd do it myself.

Here's how it works:

1. Bill and Jimmy are appointed as special envoys. (Very, very special.)

2. They leave for the ME, or maybe Brussels, to do their special envoying (and no small amount of lusting in or, in the case of Bill, not merely in, their hearts, while they're at it, no doubt.)

3. Then we CANCEL THEIR PASSPORTS and they CAN'T GET BACK INTO THE COUNTRY!

Is that not the finest denoument for these fine gentlemen?

This article as so good my parents liked it. They don't know how evil the present day Jihad is but this article helps.

If the full article goes to the pay-to-read side of the WSJ, it can still be found at Free Republic

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

OT: Europe faces up to Islam and the veil

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

The tide is turning

The King of England Who Became Muslim

Yes England was ruled THIRTY NINE years by a Muslim English King...

The Moroccan Historian Dr Abd AlHady Al Tazy noticed that "Ibn Khaldoon" didn’t comment on the message from the King "John" (Hanna) to the Khalifa "Al Nasser Mohammad Almowaheddy" in Andalus. This message was recorded by the English history and in this message the King of England offered our Muslim Khalifa to enter Islam he and his English people and join our nation that worships one God!

The Pope and Church were VERY angry for that offer and made efforts to destroy this before it has begun. And the anger of the Pope is understandable! But what is not understandable is the silence of Ibn Khaldoon and the Historians after him about this very exciting event! As King "John" or (Hanna) is the one who made the "Magna Karta" the greatest document of freedom in the English history.

His history and his life contain no mystery, and this man’s admiration for Islam is doubtless!

I wonder where were we? And what did we do?

And while I was thinking attracted to this case, another book fell into my hands for the Egyptian Historian Mostafa Al Kanany, that proves by many proofs that, that King who admired Islam was the successor of another King who ACTUALLY WAS A MUSLIM! King "Ofarx" who ruled England 39 years (757-796 AC).

This King moved greatly far away from the Church and he changed the coin of England , so he made a golden "Dinar" in which he omitted the sign of the cross and he wrote on one face of the dinar the Islamic slogan "La Ilaha Illa Allah".

The Egyptian Historian published the photo of the new dinar in his book taken from the British Museum!

Naturally, the Pope was mad about this and he sent his men to England to resist what he considered an unacceptable drawback of religion. But the Muslim King was fixed in his Islamic belief until he died..

After his death, his enemies succeeded in revenging from him. So he was not burried in the graves of the Kings which were specially made for his likes, but he was burried in an isolated grave in a place famous for destroying floods, then dust was put on his life and his perseverance until he was totally forgotten.

Also the Churches which worship one God in Europe were destroyed, and the men who were affected by Islam’s belief , civilization and culture were destroyed by iron and fire whatever their positions and their acquaintances were.

I am not directing the fingers of accusation to our enemies!! I am directing it to our systems of da3wa, as it doesn’t support a friend nor fight an enemy, and to our Historians who didn’t follow the path of Islam East and West and didn’t record what happened to it!!

#64 Bencoillon

And where did you find this asshattery? And who wrote it? and what drugs were they on? Wait, most likely hashish...must remmeber to avoid hashish in the future.

To quote from the article (which was so good i just had to print it out)

Mr. Cole is among those who say Mr. Lewis's call for military intervention to transform failed Muslim states risks making the culture clash between Islamic lands and the West worse. So far, they say, Iraq looks more like a breeding ground for terrorism than a showcase of democracy -- not surprising, they say, given that the U.S. invaded an old and proud civilization.

THIS IS THE POINT AT WHICH MY BLOOD JUST BOILS

yes i know its the leftist nonsense that is continually brought up .. but its so false its laughable.

WHEN Saddam was toppled, regardless of the aftermath, the state of Iraq was pitiful by not only world standards but by human standards.

The dictatorship was corrupt, had anyone who wasn't totally with the Ba'athist regime whimpering around the knees just to live and corruption made it almost impossible for the average Iraqi to live and work an average day.

The idea of an old and proud civilisation is something the Iraqis can put down in their fairytale books.

By the time Saddam had finished with it .. the roads were failing .. the sewage was knee deep and untreated in the streets, the people were angry and didn't know who or what they were angry against, they just had the idea that the JOOZE were all to blame for their own self taught, self manicured PIT OF HADES.

Its one of the things that the Holocaust did teach me, what Communism did teach me, that once u rip apart any minority that existed as a whole or complementary part of the existing civilisation, you end up with a philosophically unsound and socially unrepresentative dictate that suppresses the population and works in absolute corruption in its own self immolating shell.

The structure was undone, the society was held down, and it was dying and close to dead, all that Saddam could offer now was one spectacular finale of mindblowing destruction to justify his existance.

And we didn't allow him to do that, did we?

Another wall. This one is apparently ok from Soddies' point of view, while another wall up north isn't. Go figure!

note to #64 bencoillon--John did not make the magna carta. It was forced upon him by the free peoples of England. If only this would have happened in an islamic paradise. But the idea of an unabsolute power seems foreign to islam.

note to #44-- Dan G. If you pick any ten years from 1913 to 1985, say 1942 to 52, but any one will do, people who claimed to be rational secularists with a belief in the redeeming power of a strong central government murdered ten times as many people as have been killed in the name of christianity in 2000 years or judaism in 5000. The 20th century saw more concentrated evil than the 19 before it--and all of it done by secularists.

OT Pipes Thread (Mike)

I wanted to respond to a post from the Pipes thread and since no one has posted there in hours, I thought I would bring it over here.

The problem is Israel is not a Republic.

It is a fractionated Parliamentarian Socialist Democracy that has a problem of corruption and semi-anarchy. The things that are occuring in Israel like the Left negotiating with the enemy would NEVER happen in America.

That's true but there are other reasons why this would never happen in the US. The US has a statute on the books called the Logan Act, which prohibits private citizens from conducting foreign policy, dating back to the War of 1812! There has never been an indictment under that Act, but in Israel, there's no such law on the books. And that makes a big difference.

Second, in America the President, except Impeachment, can't lose power for 4 years. Thus, the Dems can't plan for the next shift in the waves to blackmail or overthrow the present government as happens in Israel.

That's true. But the US also doesn't have to deal with coalition discipline, which is a byproduct of the parliamentary system. If Sharon wants to make sure to win a vote, all he has to do is to call it a no-confidence vote. If the coalition doesn't vote with him, they risk voting themselves out of office. And if a minister votes against him in the Knesset on a no-confidence vote, then by law he's out of the government. That's why the real battle over the Gaza withdrawal is in the cabinet and not in the Knesset. Because in the Knesset everyone knows that it will be a no-confidence motion and any minister that wants to stay in the government has to vote with the government (or absent themselves from the plenum). So votes in the Knesset are much more strictly on party lines than they are in the US. (And in the case of Gaza, absenting yourself from the plenum won't defeat Sharon because Labor and Sheretz will vote with him to evacuate Gaza).

The other thing that's worth noting is that every time the party in power changes, you see massive shifts in policy. In the States, there's much less of a philosophical disagreement over the goals. Here that's not true. Left and right have fundemental disagreements over the type of state this is supposed to be. A small example: every time a right wing government is voted in, the cities and towns in Yesha get tax breaks. Every time a left wing government is voted in, they lose them.

Third, Israel's losing the most important war in the media. Why Isreal doesn't have a fully trained, multi-lingual professional media force made up Sephardim, Mizrahi as well as Ethiopian Jews to go on media appearances, speaking engagements and public appearance at the least in the States is a CRIME.

Yes, it is a crime. but there's a very simple explanation for it: look who the foreign minister was since 1992. Until Shalom came in a year ago, for most of the last ten years the foreign minister was Peres or Ben Ami (who may be the only politician in Israel who is more detached from reality than Peres). So while Sharon was at least saying that he wanted to fight the terror since his first election in 2001, he had Peres as foreign minister until less than a year ago. And before that, we had Ben Ami. And for most of the 90's, we had Peres. The foreign ministry is full of leftist bureaucrats.

And those leftist bureaucrats are angry at the world because prime ambassadorial posts like Washington, London and Paris are regarded as political prizes. We haven't had an ambassador in London for a couple of years now. First Ben Ami or Peres (I forget which) wanted to appoint Dalia Itzik, who was described in the JPost as having a "rudimentary knowledge of English." Then Sharon and Peres could not agree on anyone. Now Sharon and Shalom have agreed on Zvi Hefetz - who doesn't speak English (the appointment is being challenged by the Movement for Quality Government). So the last ambassador, Zvi Shtauber, is still sitting there (and has already had his appointment extended once).

We're shooting ourselves in the foot when it comes to PR, because the government cannot agree on its goals and cannot appoint competent people to carry them out.

Then again, that's true of the cabinet too. All the cabinet appointments here are political and not professional. In the US, cabinet members are typically competent professionals in the field of their appointment, and are not members of Congress. Here, the cabinet members often know nothing about their ministries. They are appointed based on their position in whichever party and on the number of political appointments and size of budget they 'deserve' to control based on that position. Sharon tried to screw Bibi out of a cabinet position this time and faced a revolt in his own party. So he appointed Bibi finance minister (Bibi wanted foreign and everyone thought that Shalom would be finance) and hoped Bibi would choke on it. He hasn't (Bibi is more fit for either position than Shalom is. Shalom is incompetent and Sharon is basically running the foreign ministry himself, which is why he put him there).

#64

having just finished one of the longest posts i've ever done .. there arrives another moonbat doormat worth walking on.

ok .. so we now have a magnificent new creation .. the muslim ENGLISH king who fits neatly into a bit of the dark ages that is poorly written about anyway.

except .. its not.

lets start quoting, i want to rip him apart slowly.

This King moved greatly far away from the Church and he changed the coin of England , so he made a golden "Dinar" in which he omitted the sign of the cross and he wrote on one face of the dinar the Islamic slogan "La Ilaha Illa Allah".

ok so you have someone who would have interfered in the straight line of the english ascensions with a degree of muslim influence and theology .. yet by the time Egbert the First arrives on the scene 23 years later, there is no influence? surely a king of such influence would have created some impact on this pivotal section of history?

Of course, the muslim culture only affected the royalty, not those darn dhimmi peasants.

The Egyptian Historian published the photo of the new dinar in his book taken from the British Museum!

first, do you realise the distances to cross to get to England in this period of history? even by boat the messages from England to the mainland of Europe took MONTHS to get the information across, even by horseback it still took weeks.

I'm not even going to bother with the word PHOTO. the gutenberg press was still way off in the future and the camera was 19th century.

Dont forget that the british musuem .. a result of the same reformation that led to the great irrelevance to the Western world of the islamic influence for the next 200 years

The history of the British Museum 1753 -

now .. to the idea of the coins.

As a coin collector .. i can tell you that at this point in the history of England, it was still very much a pseudo Roman colony. Its coins, its history and its influences were still roman, and roman based.

so the coinage used was not the Dinar, itself based on the common roman coinage, the denarius but a collation of common roman coins with local themes and local heads.

check your EBAY if u dont believe me.

bencoillon, to sum it up nicely, you have just written the largest load of codswallop (read bullshit) I have ever seen presented as fact !

now .. take that crap back to some illiterate middle eastern hovel where not only they dont know any of the facts, but they might even QUESTION your nonsense !

#64

just finishing it off .. cos i'm on such a high from that twit

the reason u wont find any recognition of the Islamic influence at this period of time, or any pertinent reference to it in the history books .. is that the Islamist at this point in history were still a minor influence.

Even allowing for the perverted versions of the Arab GOLDEN AGE, according to them that only existed in the early 800s and for a period of less than 300 years.

The reason that the early Islamic movement was ahead of its time with the sciences and astrology and mathematics is that it had a wide reaching influence, and did not provide a classing of wider supremacy.

This only became necessary after the crusades, where to justify its further existance after persistant miserable defeats, it defined arab and islamic culture as beyond contempt or query.

It was at this point that arab and Islamic culture failed and ceased to be of relevance to the west.

What came to exist is an expansionist realm that acquired, stole, and then died a slow death, consistantly for the next 900 years.

Thats pretty much how it has been, and how it has represented itself.

Tariq Ramadan's Two-Faced Islam. The West Is the Land of Conquest

[Link: tariq-ramadan.net...]

why should they fear us? they are playing us like idiots.
we are doing everything they want.

OT: Bali Conf: Indonesian FM "Jihad means struggle for improvement, for the well-being of the people." Terrorism Conf in Bali - Wed 2/4/04
OT: Bali Conf: Australian FM "More Terror Attacks Inevitable"

"Then why are you here? Why didn't you stay in your Islamic Paradise instead of coming to the infidel West?" I get nothing but dead silence.

of course they say, the whole world belongs to allah, islam is not an 'eastern' religion.

Europe and America aren't 'Christian" countries.

Islam is the same as Judiasm and Christianity..because it incorporates Judiasm and Christianity.

Pray to the same G-d, revere Jesus as a Prophet.Abrahamic religion etc...

...they have it down pat. And then they call you racist, islamophobe.

number 71, Buster Bunny

You can see what Microsoft Encarta doing about whitewashing islam and Arafat ...
Instead of the truth they sell lies...Microsoft in Denial

Aad and Thamud, which Allah "destroyed" because of their disobedience are entirely mythical tribes. Destroying non-existing entities is about the limit of power for non-existing dieties.

#75 swede- Excellent post.

(#75) swede

Why can't there be more Scandinavians like you?

Thanks for all you contribute.

Here is an interesting preview of Ian Buruma's new book:

Occidentalism

The bigger picture shows that the United States is the most powerful nation in the world because of Saudi fundamentalism. It was Saudi-US partnerships that made fighting rogue wars against the Soviet Union possible. It was Saudi-US partnerships that gave us a stable oil supply and about a trillion dollars in foreign investment.

Not that the Saudis really have a choice where to put their petrodollars, but short of removing a regime from an oil rich region isn't going to solve any problems.

Oh wait, we did take care of that. The Iraq war was a prelude to shedding the special relationship with the Saudis. The Princes know this and thus they will continue to fund global Islamic terror in order to protect their relationship.

Q: Why don't we hate them?
A: Out of the mouth of babes

www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com

#69 Carl in Jerusalem
> I wanted to respond to a post from the Pipes thread

Then post to the pipes thread. Trying to change a topic of a thread is a sign of a troll.

> since no one has posted there in hours

What do you think this is? a chat line?

Some of us don't even visit every day. It's a message board. one can leave messages on a subject that will still be there days later. If you want to chat in realtime, go visit Yahoo chatrooms, use AIM, or whatever is the right tool for that.

In the process of reading Lewis's book, "Crisis of Islam". Its stellar, best scholarly work I've read since college. And I think he's got a lot more right than wrong, which is likely why critics seem unable to do more than take snipets and individual statements and refute them. Not surprised people have been listening to this man on MidEast affairs, either. Very pleased the Bush Administration has taken his arguments to heart, in fact.

Lebanon: Yes, Israel wasn't very successful, but the situation was more akin to a miniature cold war than the current situation in Iraq. they were facing off Syria in Lebanon, which radically skewed the political and military options they could use.

King John was Muslim- what a load of crap. He may have made overtures to that effect to the Muslims as a diplomatic tool, but all evidence points to him being firmly christian. England as a nation at that point would never have tolerated a 'muslim' king. Yeah, and Napoleon was Muslim too, simply because he 'converted' as a PR/diplomacy move while in Egypt. That isn't tobacco in the hookah, that's for sure.

Fault of the West -vs- Fault of themselves- As any mature person will tell you, bad stuff happens to everyone. One of the BIG signs of maturity, I think we'll all agree, is when a child stops blaming others and expecting others to fix THEIR problems, and starts doing it for themselves. This one reason is, I believe, more persuasive than all the tit-for-tat disection, rationalization, and debate over the situation of the middle-east. I see the Muslim world pointing fingers at everyone but themselves, and that's just juvenile.

Re: #52 -
My point was this: that Christianity "went bad" thanks to the influence of invading nomadic barbarian tribes, ... Some pagan ideas seaped in, and the culture in which Christianity resided became much more brutal. Thus Christianity lost (either in fact or through perversion) much of the higher points: love of neighbor, charity, welcoming strangers, etc. At first it was just the "people" who were "barbaric", but some of this eventually became part of the religion as a whole.

Uhhh, unfortunately, you are suffering from historical dissonance. I do not necessarily agree that "Christianity went bad," but if you are going to put it that way, Christianity went bad when Constantine adopted it as the state religion of the Roman Empire.
"Christianity" had approximately three hundred years of civil war, murder, riots, looting, arson, and in general "the breaking of each other's heads," while the Church, the State, the Bishops, and the people fashioned this cultic offshoot of Judaism into a religion.
It formed itself into the Roman Catholic Church in the West, with its doctrines, scriptures and canons somewhere in the 7th century, which was indeed the same time that Islam was being invented.
Much of the Western and Eastern doctrines of Christianity were, in fact, promulgated in direct response to the Islamic invasions.
But the underpinnings of barbarism in Christianity are rooted in the barbarism of Rome.

OT but worth it.

AZ Central (via [Link: www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com...] ) is reporting that Rumsfeld said this:

"We have convened here in Bali to deepen our cooperation against those who oppose our shared values and those who would murder innocents," Ashcroft said. "Through the cooperative efforts of countries represented at this ministerial meeting we will win the battle for freedom, we will win the battle for tolerance, we will win the battle to defeat terror."

No, not you Rummie. Anyone but you. Say it isn't so!!!

#69 Carl in Jerusalem
Interesting take on the political situation in Israel and its basic structure.

Looks to me like Israel is headed for a national unity government. If Labor refuses to join, it would be perceived as stabbing Israel in the back, when Sharon is adopting Labor positions. What do you think?

#85 rusty shackleford

Well, who was it - Rummy or Ashcroft?

OT

The WaPo published an "editorial" which is basically a hit piece attacking Israel for stealing Palestinian water:

Avoiding a Mideast Water War

No mention of the Palestinian's multiple opportunities to have a state of their own, where problems like this could never occur (they'd have other problems, like ingrained corruption and brutal tyrrany, but...), passed up to maintain their desire to wipe Israel off the map.

And the piece is written by one: Mark Zeitoun, a humanitarian-aid water engineer who has worked on assignments in Lebanon, Congo-Brazzaville, Iraq and, most recently, the occupied Palestinian territories.

#87/#85
Note to self: Increase morning caffeine consumption.

Make that Ashie baby.

He continued: “More generally ... you can’t be rich, strong, successful and loved, particularly by those who are not rich, not strong and not successful. So the hatred is something almost axiomatic. The question which we should be asking is why do they neither fear nor respect us?”

I am not rich.

I am not "strong", politcally or economically.

I am not particularly successful; I work 9 to 5 like many people.

HOWEVER: I have no "hatred" toward those who ARE rich, strong, or successful.

What sort of thinking is this on the part of the author? If it is "axiomatic" to believe such a thing and to behave in such a manner, then ISLAM is acting properly and those of us who DON'T practice envy and hate are somehow "abnormal".

This person advocates hatred of the good for being the good. Not only does he advocate it, but considers it fundamental human behavior.

Frightening.

#8 Model4 -

So true. So pathetic. :(

#16 Bran -

GEORGE BUSH IS NOT LISTENING TO EDWARD SAID

That's because he's dead.

/Beavis & Butthead

#20 Model4 -

Kerry losing face

If not from the embarassing question, then from overdoing the Botox.

Evariste, cba - To: Fnord IBC Re: Talking Snake, or Just Happy to See Me?

Model4,

Dude, I respect the hell out of you, but I think you're dead wrong about Gore in regards to taking out Afghanistan and Iraq.

If he could have been pushed into an Afghanistan confrontation, it would most likely have mimicked Billy's "no ground troops" Kosovo fiasco and we would still be dropping bombs on Afghani hillsides. I doubt Gore would have done any arm twisting in the former Soviet states or brought Pakistan into the mix. And as far as Iraq is concerned, forget it. There were too many good reasons for a President Gore not to take military action there. He never would have defied the UN.

In short: Men make history, history does not make the man.

This site is so addictive because of the intelligent, informative, & supremely witty folks that post here,
LGF is the cocaine for the anti idiotarians, chanelling Marx's "religion is the Opium for the masses ,
I have to take a cold turkey!!

# 60 kp

A good idea, but it doesn't go far enough. How would Dhimmah and the Slickster get around? Rather than having an unlucky member of our armed forces act as their chauffeur, why not get Fat Teddy Kennedy to do it? It has many advantages, especially if the car comes anywhere near water.

Geepers, Model4 is a lady, I am continuosly shocked at how many are.

King "John" (Hanna)

"Hanna" is a woman's name. "Chanah" in Hebrew and Arabic, "Anna" in the New Testament.

"John" in Hebrew is "Yochanan" or "Yahuchanan"; "Yahya" in Arabic.

his enemies succeeded in revenging from him. So he was not burried in the graves of the Kings which were specially made for his likes, but he was burried in an isolated grave in a place famous for destroying floods, then dust was put on his life and his perseverance

Reminds me of one of those "Anguished English" essays. I've never heard of cemetaries that could destroy floods.

Frank IBC-Actually, at least among Arab Christians, Hanna and Yohanna are the Arabic for John. The Pope is Yohanna Boulus alThani.

# 86 EE

Sharon's biggest problems are in his own party. Labor will play along for any vote involving withdrawal from disputed territories, but if half the Likud MK's refuse to back Sharon, Sharon has a problem.

And Netanyahu is keeping poker-faced so far...

Unmutual, granted I do not know you but I'm willing to bet that by world standards, you probably are rich, strong, and successful. I know I am. I have indoor plumbing, electricity, a nice used mini-van, etc. I'm better off than some heads of State in other countries, and certainly better off than the royality of just 100 years ago. I think I know where you are coming from on the hatred of the rich angle though. I don't hate Bill Gates or begrudge the million-dollar baseball player his money as much as some would like me too. Class envy can be a powerful tool for many seeking public office in the ol' USA.

But I think we can all agree that jealously is a natural, although certainly not ubiquitous, reaction. And more importantly, just because one thinks jealously is natural it doesn't follow that one also thinks it is good and proper.

Re #64

Good lord not that twaddle that King Offa, for it is he that this refers to, converted to Islam! Good lord, let me tell you everything about it, or rather follow this link:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Hoaxes/offa.html

There I hope that this dispells the idiocy.

Geepers

You say that history doesn't make the man. What about Tony Blair ? In earlier times, he took fashionable leftie positions, for instance in supporting the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, (CND) an appeasement outfit that was clearly infested with Trots and Stalinists.

But since being PM, he has moved a long way to the right, especially since 9/11 - to the point where in Britain he is generally regarded as a hawk.

I believe this is because as a good lawyer he reads his briefs. And some of the intelligence briefs he must have read made very chilling reading.

Time was, Tony Blair would have been one of the peace marchers. But not any longer. This transformation has arisen, IMHO, by Blair having to face the exigencies of high office at a time of crisis.

to #84 george--
Which Christian doctrines were promulgated in respponse to the Muslim invasion?

Not quite related q. Is there cause and effect that the places where Christianity has been most barbarous--Spain and Sicily-- spent centuries under muslim rule? ( I suppose I do not hink of the Balkans in the same way)

Frank-LOL! It makes as much sense as everything else he writes.
I think we're getting dangerously meta, me impersonating you replying to Cuckold(ed) and you impersonating Cuckold(ed) replying to me impersonating you...*head explodes*

# 84

George, let's talk historical dissonance:

It formed itself into the Roman Catholic Church in the West, with its doctrines, scriptures and canons somewhere in the 7th century

Canon of New Testament set: ca. 400 A.D.
(and this was the final mopping up of debate on the apostolicity of certain debated works - the general canon was in place by ca. 200.)

Doctrine had been formulated for centuries -
please see the Ecumenical Councils. Also the work of the Fathers of the Church, both East and West.

I'm not sure what you mean by canons. Canon Law? The Canon of the Mass (of which there were numerous rites)?

Which doctrines were those which were promulgated re: the refutation of Islam? COuld you give an example?

"But the underpinnings of barbarism in Christianity are rooted in the barbarism of Rome"

Yes, good point - and in the barbarism of the various pagan tribes evangelized by Christian missionaries in Europe.

#95

Geepers, Model4 is a lady, I am continuosly shocked at how many are.

My bad too, I thought Model4 was a male.

Wacky! I thought Model4 was a feller too.

Evariste -

Interesting! I didn't know that.

But why is this English Muslim using an Arab Christian name? Or maybe he named himself in anticipation of Hanan Ashrawi?

Just curious, does "Chamoun" (franco-Arab spelling) mean "Simon"? And what's "George"?

# 86 EE

Sharon rejected opposition leader Shimon Peres's offer to provide a security net to pass his plan if right-wing parties leave the coalition. "Governments naturally deal with many issues and not just diplomacy," Sharon said. "We can't work with getting support on the basis of one issue alone."

LOL
I don't know what chamoun means; if the first sound is an aspirated H then it's Hamun, and if the first sound is a "sh" sound and there's the strangulation sound between the m and the o (the letter 'ain) then that's definitely Simon, shim'aon.
George is girgis.

#99 Renna

Well put, but the point I was trying to make is that even though some attitudes include an overabundance of envy, it is still possible for rational people to reject it.

Or better yet, those who practice envy as a rule should build a bridge and get over it.

Evariste -

Sorry, should have clarified - "ch" is as in French - the "sh" sound.

Ah, the ayin in the middle, just like in the Hebrew "Shim'on".

"Girgis"? I better pay attention to my hygeine. I'd hate to come down with a case of that. ;)

Heh heh heh. The funny thing is that Arabic doesn't have a g letter, only a j, so you can't write girgis in Arabic, just jirjis. So ignorant muslims call girgises jirjis. But it's definitely girgis, I had a Christian friend whose dad was named girgis.

JohninLondon (#101),

Time was, Tony Blair would have been one of the peace marchers. But not any longer. This transformation has arisen, IMHO, by Blair having to face the exigencies of high office at a time of crisis.

But couldn't Blair just as easily have denied those briefs and chosen to not to take a responsible course of action ala Jimmy Carter, who still promotes his idyllic peace through timidity consul despite being a graduate of Annapolis?

First to Captain America: power is an amazing thing, in ten weeks from the ashes to 9-11 final victory, the US stormed a nation half a world away and conquered it using less than 500 pairs of boots on the ground using previously untried tactics and weapons systems. A year and quarter later, five US and one British Division with extra armor units attached, conquered a country the size of California in three weeks.

This is global power writ large. This is power unlike any the world has ever seen and the leaders of enemy and enen friendly nations are taken aback by it.

We have entered the American Age, it is not imperialism (unlike the Journal's assertion), we have no territorial ambitions but we will not suffer regimes that plot in the dark to stick knives in our back or unleash assymmetrical warfare against our interests and people.

We will use unyielding force, the olive branch is there for those wishing to reform, the list is there for those who do not. The most important thing I wish John Kerry would say, but I sincerely doubt he will say, is that the Iranian, North Korean and Syrian regimes have no place in his world view either.

#82 Dick Cravat, you were unnecessarily rude to #69 Carl in Jerusalem. He's certainly no troll.

Evariste -

It's pronounced "g" in Egypt and North Africa, isn't it?

#106 evariste

My bad too, I thought Model4 was a male.

As did I. Then again, the name evariste threw me for a fruit loop too.

Frank, yep-all j sounds are.

RIP Ford-that's not what I said! But it captures the spirit of it :-)

Frank IBC-I thought I'd check again since Chuc(ky) posted in the newest thread-Ewaristo's Eek-ROFLMAO!

#119 evariste

Oops, sorry.

Geepers

My point was that maybe history did make Tony Blair.

But I agree that Carter is a hopeless case. And from what I have seen of Kerry, the Dems are in danger of selecting another Carter.

Yes, one cannot generalise - some politicians rise to history, some fall short.

# 103 - Evariste,
I lost touch with mathematics after high school but CANTOR is mindblowing, Transfinite cardinals - ON - Reflection principle such an assault on the anti Platonists - Mindscape - the last I could understand in Rudy Ruckers book was Mahlo Cardinals - you have such great posts here like when you chased that disgraceful Abu reason & I hope 'b' out - What i want to ask you is how to account for the unreasonable success of mathematics in real world - do linguistic rules rule over reality- tis astonishing - & the reason given by one of the greatest philosophers of the world ( Immanuel Kant ) said that space & time are ways of ordering our perception, something Biological, All Mathematics are the abstract essence of the rules through which we perceive the Other - which come from Homo Sapiens

Kant's philosophy would have said that there would be different Mathematics for different life forms, I cannot beleive that, please give me a reason.

I am not at all trying to troll you,

I hope I am coherent.

Model4 is a man, what are you guys talking about?

And I thought "Evariste" was a fragrance by Calvin Klein.

Oh I see it. Westward Ho (#95)

Geepers, Model4 is a lady, I am continuosly shocked at how many are.

No, Model4 is no lady. LOL.

Frank IBC, LOL.

JohninLondon,

I think all world leader are presented with situations by which they can rise to action or absolve themselves from responsibility. Tony Blair decided on a course of action that made history and thus staked his claim to it. Clinton had the opportunity, but decided on a course of action that relegated his legacy to what could have been done.

Those that act, make history.

On the other hand without a defining moment we are left to wonder what might have been their reaction, which is what we're doing with Gore.

Thank's ZB,
I am SORRY, sorry - crawling into my bed - goodnight
Folks.

123 Westward Ho

I hope Evariste answers, I want to know.

#123 Westward Ho-

What i want to ask you is how to account for the unreasonable success of mathematics in real world - do linguistic rules rule over reality- tis astonishing - & the reason given by one of the greatest philosophers of the world ( Immanuel Kant ) said that space & time are ways of ordering our perception, something Biological, All Mathematics are the abstract essence of the rules through which we perceive the Other - which come from Homo Sapiens
Kant's philosophy would have said that there would be different Mathematics for different life forms, I cannot beleive that, please give me a reason.

Well, in general I am unsympathetic to Kant's theories on human consciousness, and that makes me instantly skeptical of any claims that he bases on that-let's be clear about that.
I account for the unreasonable success of mathematics in the real world by realizing that all but the most esoteric maths has been buffeted by, developed in time with our developing understanding of, and tested against the real world, or discovered by provably correct analogy to other maths that have. Math didn't suddenly appear; it's grounded in the way the brain works. At an extremely primitive level, even babies know the difference between none, 1 and some, as well as the difference between 1,2 and 3 (sometimes four or five). A baby will show surprise if you show her, say, two sticks, then hide them behind your back, then bring your hand out again holding only one, or three. And human learning is heavily reliant on analogy and metaphor, not to mention the most important mathematical faculty of all-abstraction. To strip away the sticks and be left with pure numbers is an elementary step.
In other words, I think math is like a lot of other human enterprises-it isn't some perfect system that's outside of the history of the species. So in that what I believe and what Kant says coincide somewhat.
I don't believe that there can be correct math that is falsifiable by direct observation of reality, but there can be correct math that doesn't describe any reality we will ever experience or measure. This is sort of disturbing in a sense; but again, math isn't making reality conform, math is conforming itself to reality and by rigorous-proofable analogy, is creating correct math that isn't part of reality.
I can see what he's saying about different life-forms having different mathematics, but I find it hard to imagine. The reason I can see it is the way I understand the human faculty for math-maybe an other life-form sufficiently advanced to develop a math doesn't evolve in an environment that causes counting to be an innate faculty can exist, and it would start developing its math for a different reason than needing to count. Maybe. A fluid life-form, or a two-dimensional one? I find it hard to imagine.
However, that doesn't, to me, mean that the different math is going to be so different that we can't derive it from our own maths, or derive at least some of our own maths from it. If it's meaningful as a math (in my definition, a symbolic system combining abstractions, metaphors and analogies in a formal system that proves conjectures about itself, often ones that correspond to observable reality but sometimes not) then our math is a powerful enough tool to allow us to comprehend it and make it ours as well.

Damn it, Westward Ho! You suck for going to bed. Good night :-)

#102; #104

I apologize for being vague and imprecise. It was a throwaway commentary on my part. I lumped it all together and I am incorrect.
The doctrines (dogma, tenets) of Christianity, specifically of the Eastern Orthodox Church, were changed and altered by the Muslim Conquest. This, in turn, greatly affected the doctrines of the Church of Rome. Many of these doctrines continued to be altered over the next 1500 years in response to Islam.
All information can be found in any standard text, internet google, or encyclopedia:
312 CE – Constantine invented (was “revealed to;” was “dreamed by;” was inspired to create) the symbol of Christianity – the Cross. This was not a symbol of Jesus before this time and it took another hundred years or so for it to become so. This cross -based philosophy shaped the resurrection - philosophy tremendously. This totally shaped the choices of the official doctrines of the Church for the rest of history. It also shaped Christianity’s reaction to Islam.
100 CE or so to about 550 CE - The Arians; Gnostics; Diocletians; Nestorians; Monophysts; Manicheans; Pelagianists; etcetera; etcetera; etcetera - all broke each other’s heads, murdered each other’s bishops, burned each other’s churches and eventually helped split the Roman Empire into its Eastern and Western Churches. These conflicts directly decided Church scriptures and doctrines.
650 or so - The Eastern church’s banning of Images (Iconoclasm) which provoked the West and provided endless doctrines in both the East and the West on the worship of Saints and Relics, not to mention the adoration of Jesus and Mary, was in direct response to the Islamic invasion and their doctrine of “No Images.”
The Eastern Church rapidly lost half of its empire to Islam and it created its doctrines in direct response to this new power.
The Western Church was gaining converts by this time (the Franks, etc.) and created its doctrines in response to its new converts and opposed to its former overlord, Constantinople, the Byzantines (the Eastern Church), which it considered simply another province, but which was, in fact, the “Mother” Church. The doctrine of Roman Apostolic Succession (the Pope) was in direct response to asserting Rome’s independence from the embattled Byzantine Empire.
The changes in doctrines over the centuries were responsive to Islam – when the Byzantine Empire re-conquered Islamic lands, Iconclasm was overturned. Science, art and Law were promoted in the East, via contact with Islam, and discouraged in the West, leading to the best known result (among others) of Galileo’s refutation.
Despite Rome’s initial opposition to it, the racial doctrine of anti-Semitism, where Jews were to be defined by blood as opposed to religion, thereby annulling Jewish converts, (Toledo, Spain, 1449), was in direct response to the Reconquista of Spain. This doctrine was eventually adopted by the Church, (even thought many Popes still opposed it) and led directly to the doctrines of German racial purity and the Holocaust.
Again, I was not correct when I implied that scripture was formulated by opposition to Islam. The Churches did, however, coalesce at the time of the Islamic conquest. And Church doctrines were formulated in response to Islam.

I do not believe that the "most barbarous" examples of Christianity were in Spain and Sicily - Despite the Spanish Inquistion and Jewish expulsion, far more Jews and heretics (see Albigensians) were murdered in France and Germany by "Christians," than in either Spain or even the Balkans combined.

Sincerely,
Moshe

#124 zulubaby

Am I going to have to pull out the Gender Genie?

Had Gore not taken the fight to another terrorist regime after Afghanistan, he'd face withering daily attacks for his policy of appeasement, an attack the GOP has spent decades innoculating themselves against. Just because he's been on record as attacking George Bush while not in power or running for it, that doesn't mean he'd act according to the principles he's stating today if he'd been elected.

Results:

Female Score: 88
Male Score: 123

Definitive proof that Model4 is male, LOL.

101 JohninLondon

You must check out this UK site

[Link: educationforum.ipbhost.com...]

[Link: educationforum.ipbhost.com...]

#134 RIP Ford:
I dunno about that-- 88 to 123 sounds a bit metrosexual to me. :-)

Frank IBC, I'd checked out the Dhimmitude thread earlier today and saw your very funny addition. And it seems that we've scared away the clown. I'm kinda sad about that--I'd loved to have seen his reaction (in a car-crash kinda way).

cba-he posted this morning in one of the new threads!

#136 cba

LOL :p

cba, LOL. Model4 is a man, I tell you! Where is he?

In the WSJ article, it states that Lewis believes that the Turkish killing of 1 million+ Armenians during WWI was not genocide, but part of the war (which is not to say he excuses it). I'm sure his detractors cite this position as evidence of pandering to the "high gov't" officials in Turkey, and also also cite his praise for Ataturk's imposed secularism as some kind of bias against Islam.

My question is this: what do the usual gang of loudmouth Islamic idiots say about the Armenian genocide? Do they excuse it, justify it, take pride in it? Considering they say things like the Holocaust was a fabrication AND they protest that the Nazis didn't kill enough Jews, I am not expecting anything that makes sense. But is anyone aware of anything out there?

OT

Encouraqging tone in this Sun article - Brit miltary feel OK about going into Iraq.

And Sun readers overwhelmingly back the action. Also reference to a Times poll showing 69% of Brits feel the war was justified by the removal of saddam - regardless of the WMD issue.

[Link: www.thesun.co.uk...]

#141 JohninLondon

And Sun readers overwhelmingly back the action.

What is the make up of a typical Sun reader? Is the Sun as popular, as say, the Telegraph? Just curious.

RIP Ford

The Sun is the leading tabloid newspaper, 4 million or so copies sold each day, probably read by 10 or so million voters each day. Compared with Telegraph sales of about one-tenth of that.

The Sun is, I suppose, the blue-collar worker's paper - "White Van Man" features largely.

The Sun will have a significant effect on the next election. It was fervently pro-Maggie, but ditched the Tories after their debacle over the European Monetary System in the early 1990s and when Blair became popular. They have to go with the flow of public opinion to sell their copies - but can have a big impact on opinion.

Don't forget that the Sun is the main money-spinner in the UK press for Rupert Murdoch, who also owns the controlling stake in Sky TV.

The Lewis article helps to put current events in perspective. It's hard not to agree that Culture clashes are the future of the war on terror. The Islam God is a God of War. The only way to defeat a God of war is with stronger war. It is not always true that might is right, but the war on terror ultimately will prove to be the case.

Ironically islams jihad is a fatale flaw for it's war. Mostly becuase they are killing themselves, but ultimately because they alienate anything but fundamentalism, which is also self hating.

Islams false history is so wacked out that learning the truth of history will ultimately slam the false believers in a false cause. Salman Rushdie was on a Iranian hit list for exploring and adressing the false face of Islam. Communicating the education is a challenge. Often rejected as 'jewish' thought. Perhaps this is where Lewis is right, that might is the tool. More than just a muscle flex in the West is needed to shift a culture of hatred. Negotiating with terrorists is wrong. Might is needed for this fight

Will everyone pick a sex and stick to it. I haven't been this confused since a man I knew had a sex change to become a lesbian. Needless to say, the lesbians I know were not amused.

Dammit people, now I'm confused. I'll be back, gotta go check on something.

Oh Geepers: You may well be right about Gore, it certainly fits his world-view (although I think the public pressure and political opportunism angles would certainly play a large role). It definitely would be interesting, but even on the WoT issue alone, I wouldn't wish the outcome of the election were reversed. Hell, by 2002 Arafat would have a permanent room in the White House, and today Israel would be in even direr straights.

Damn!
So you're a guy, right?

Baldy (#145),

Will everyone pick a sex and stick to it.

Hear, Hear. LOL.

Now, what's the verdict on Hana Ashrawi?

I'll be back, gotta go check on something.

Surely it shouldn't be taking this long ...

#4 Model4

Amen! You got it nailed precisely. Each time that puke G.W. Bush kow-tow to the 5th column who is undermining our country, I feel despair. We need a Reagan or a Churchill and all we have is a weakling unwilling to collect on all the IOU's that the fucking mozzie and the UN have accumulated against us.

#149 zulubaby-it's really cold out, but you Californians wouldn't know that! :-)

evariste, LOL!!

#143 JohninLondon

Hey, thanks for the info. I could not get into reading the newpaper when I was living in London, I just did not have the time. I recall the Sun, and as I read what you wrote, it all came back to me. Again, thanks.

#151 evariste by Calvin Klein
LOL

OK folks, "That's a man bay-bee!"
/Austin Powers

Ah, the perils of an androgynous nickname. I'm glad that text-based gender analyzer got it right, although I was hoping for a wider margin of victory. I'll try to throw in references to monster trucks, power tools and beer in the future.

#149 zulubaby: Couldn't figure out which restroom to run into to check things out.

Damn, RIP Ford, why her left titty got two nip-nips? She been drinking Springfield water or something?
I like that you're linking the story in your nick now.

Model4-whew! I would have felt silly if you wuz a missuz this whole time, and I none the wiser!

Model4 (#155)

Couldn't figure out which restroom to run into to check things out.

You should have asked me! I was, after all, the only one who never doubted you.

#58 RaphDaRussian
"RaphDaRussian reporting from down under (sydney).
Things here are just as expected. American pop culture at every turn and a deep dislike for American "arrogance" and "self-centeredness" (if that's a word) from every young person
I guess things are the same around the world"

Hey, RaphDaRussian in Sydney... The links below are for you. Yes, you're right: things are the same all other the world: dhimmis get gang-raped and mugged by mozzie they have given asylum to, and the politically correct crowd condones and protects it. Tell us about the muslim Sydney gang-rapes of Australian girls and women Raph...

[Link: sg.news.yahoo.com...]
[Link: www.smh.com.au...]
[Link: www.vdare.com...]

#156 evariste by Calvin Klein

ughh

yes, she didn'tintend to expose the floppy thang, it just happened, a wardrobe failure

and she always pins something through the tata, doesn't everyone?

*ugh*

#155 Model4

LOL I bet that is a load off your mind, huh? Don't feel so bad, the Gender Genie has me pegged as a female. Another assault on my already fragile manly persona.

#156 evariste

I can't get the HTML text to stay put in my nick, it keeps wandering off. I think I'll need to use some duct tape to keep them in place.

LOL!

RIP Ford (#161)

I think I'll need to use some duct tape to keep them in place.

You should use these instead of duct tape.

Mr. Waldman:

While I found your article quite informative, I question why you found it neccessary to quote the late Edward Said, Juan Cole, and the Israeli Ilan Pappe. They are/were, even to my limited knowledge, in the vanguard of those who despise the West and actively, day and night, support those who seek to destroy it. It would be like penning an article on ex-Mayor Guiliani and only interviewing his worst detractors (eg Al Sharpton, Rev. Herbert Doughtery, or Councilman Charles Barron) for their opinion.

If you need more info regarding any of the Said, Cole, or Pappe, I'd be more than happy to dig it up for you.

#158 zulubaby: Yes, noted and truly appreciated! Thanks.

#164 Duke:
Hateful - check
Vulgar - check
Anti-Semitic - check
Hostile toward women - check

I forwarded your post to the Saudi embassy, and they want to know if you're available to start teaching grade school next semester.

#163 zulubaby

LOL!

Duke, get a life.

Model4-LOL! Great response.

#167 RIP Ford: I'd like to have a little word with you and Mr. Johnson. You'll both want to bring your checkbooks. And I swear, if I hear the words "unscripted," "unplanned," "unrehearsed," or "wardrobe malfunction," I'm going to land on you like a ton of bricks.

/Model4

Model4

LMAO!

Duke, kindly PISS OFF.

Zulubaby is cool...

LOL, thanks Tamron. Charles got rid of him :-)

#50 & 52 FH: One could argue that Christianity was corrupted well before the Barbarian invasions. The day that Christianity was legitamized by Constantine was the day that it ceased to be the religion of salvation and became a tool of control for the state.

To say that pagan introductions into Christianity (such as the Christmas tree) were only a result of barbaric tribes is just plain wrong. The day we celebrate as the birth of Christ was originally a pagan Roman holiday (Saturnalia)

On the other hand, I thought it could have been

Evariste by Faberge

#160 Ploome -

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Model4.

;)

Never posted here before. Wanted to make sure you guys saw this:

Paris nuked

Interesting read. Sooner or later, it's going to happen. My guess would be a US city.

Trevino -

There was one happy note in that:

the late President Chirac

#133 George

There are a few things about the Church in the post that need clarifying:

The doctrines (dogma, tenets) of Christianity, specifically of the Eastern Orthodox Church, were changed and altered by the Muslim Conquest.

To be sure, many doctrines have been settled since the advent of Islam, a couple even in the past cantury. However, doctrines put forward at, for example, the Council of Nicea (c.356, I'm not goign to look up dates) and Ephesus (fifth century) included the Trinity and Mary as the Mother of God, respectively --two doctrines not only essential to Christianity but also existing long before Mohammed saw the light of day. The Nicene Creed remains the same, unaltered by the existence of Islam.

I have made this point before, that Islam in fact borrowed a lot from discarded heresies and cobbled them into its own faith (Manacheism in particular). The fact that Islam was set against Constantinople was one of its appeals to the heretics scattered throughout the Levant and North Africa.

312 CE – Constantine invented (was “revealed to;” was “dreamed by;” was inspired to create) the symbol of Christianity – the Cross. This was not a symbol of Jesus before this time and it took another hundred years or so for it to become so. This cross -based philosophy shaped the resurrection - philosophy tremendously. This totally shaped the choices of the official doctrines of the Church for the rest of history. It also shaped Christianity’s reaction to Islam.

I'm not sure what this means. The cross is mentioned often in St. Paul's Epistles, perhaps not as a "symbol of Jesus" but certainly as a referent to Christian sacrifice and suffering.

100 CE or so to about 550 CE - The Arians; Gnostics; Diocletians; Nestorians; Monophysts; Manicheans; Pelagianists; etcetera; etcetera; etcetera - all broke each other’s heads, murdered each other’s bishops, burned each other’s churches and eventually helped split the Roman Empire into its Eastern and Western Churches. These conflicts directly decided Church scriptures and doctrines.

I think you meant "Docetists" in lieu of Diocletians! ;-) These heresies did not "directly decide" Church doctrine, but they did necessitate its clarification. That is why these councils were convened: to establish doctrine and word it clearly so as to exclude error.

650 or so - The Eastern church’s banning of Images (Iconoclasm) which provoked the West and provided endless doctrines in both the East and the West on the worship of Saints and Relics, not to mention the adoration of Jesus and Mary, was in direct response to the Islamic invasion and their doctrine of “No Images.”

Actually, iconoclasm was a heresy. Iconoclasm: Catholic Encyclopedia Entry The veneration of images arose from the East, and as the entry indicates, it is a long story that the Protestants took up with vigor as well.

The Western Church was gaining converts by this time (the Franks, etc.) and created its doctrines in response to its new converts and opposed to its former overlord, Constantinople, the Byzantines (the Eastern Church), which it considered simply another province, but which was, in fact, the “Mother” Church. The doctrine of Roman Apostolic Succession (the Pope) was in direct response to asserting Rome’s independence from the embattled Byzantine Empire.

The Roman See has always claimed primacy, and the summary (from the linked entry)is simple: St. Peter was recognized as the Bishop of Rome, and those who succeed him in that see succeed him also in the supreme headship.

In the interest of avoiding boring non-Catholics and not getting into tit-for-tats, I'll stop there. Suffice it to say that Christian doctrine was not merely a reaction to Islam, but pre-existed and was codified in time by in reaction to its own internal disputes and questions. . . .

Thanks, Logger phd. for beating me to it. A fine explanation.

One more thing re: Constantine and the cross
In addition to the mentions in Scripture, the cross was in use as a well-known symbol by the 3rd century. Tertullian and Cyprian (d. 257) both have rather famous quotes on it.

OTOH, prior to Constantine, the cross was often disguised as an anchor, a tree or a trident, in artistic usage, due to the persecutions. So, it could be said that straight-forward depictions, such as we're used to, date from that time.

But the doctrine of the Resurrection was certainly fixed before Constantine.

/boring non-Catholics