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The Nineteen Lions

Sat, Feb 7, 2004 at 4:14:35 pm PST

It’s been a while since we checked in over at ClearGuidance (aka “Islam on crack”), the web site for American Muslim youth with an openly pro-jihad agenda; and what do we find the kidz reading these days? An article from the Al Qaeda-linked Azzam Publications, idolizing the September 11 hijackers: The Nineteen Lions.

On a historic sunny September morning in 2001, a few men, armed with little more than their faith, brought the greatest modern military might to her knees.

“Fasten your seat belt,” the sign flashes. You buckle up. The safety video plays, you ignore it as usual. The plane is ushered onto the runway; there is a slight pause and then the sounds of the engine rise to a crescendo in tandem with the adrenaline surging through your blood. The plane ascends, a brief pause, now you are flying. Your pulse is racing, you can feel your heart thudding against your chest; admonishing yourself you increase your remembrance of Allah. You look at your watch. In your mind the countdown which began the day you were given your mission details moves closer to zero hour. You pick up the in-flight magazine, appearing to flick through the pages you once more go over the details of the operation: soon there will be no room for error.

The minutes move too slowly, you are eager for the Paradise: finally the time arrives. Without a glance you rise from your seat and dart to the cockpit. Securing control of the plane, you set your sights on your target. As the building approaches, you look about you at the faces of your brothers in arms and all you see is the blazing light shining off their faces. Attempting to conceal your delight you direct the plane towards the North Tower, with a prayer you shout ‘Allahu Akbar (Allah is the Greatest)’ as you graciously glide into the Tower, obliterating an Idol of the Modern Age.

This is obviously merely a guess, we will have to wait for the exact details as the first hand account is reserved for the inhabitants of Heaven, and I ask Allah that it is so. If Allah overlooks my countless sins and showers mercy upon me in far excess of what I deserve and grants me the Paradise; I will ask the 19 Martyrs, perhaps Mohammed Atta in particular, to tell his story time and time again, and when signs of boredom appear on his face, I will move onto another of the 19. Perhaps moving onto Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Al-Omari, or Marwan Al-Shehhi (whose regiment destroyed the South Tower of the WTC) for I will never tire of hearing about this tale of unparalleled valour.

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230 comments

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1 roach[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:18:43pm
2 mpax  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:18:54pm

Two different worlds, and the election of 2000 may be the most important since that of 1860.

3 StormKat  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:18:55pm

What if they didn't make it to Paradise?

Maybe you can still ask them.

4 Engineer  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:19:18pm

Those fu**king sons of b**tches! Die motherf**kers!

5 mpax  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:20:06pm

BTW, that occasion when Muhammed was tempted by Satan? I'm betting he succumbed.
That would explain everything.

6 mpax  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:22:18pm

"...on September 11 2001, these 19 Martyrs changed the course of History, and turned the tides of Time."

They changed the course of history for Saddam, certainly, and for the Taliban, and, I'm betting for Osama.

7 realist  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:23:14pm

oh dear - you poor misled fools. Why must you do the devil's dirty work and spead his propaganda!!!
Everybody knows that S11 was an "own goal" stage managed by Mossad and American interests, to gain carte blance for the destruction and profiteering thats taking place now.
I cant believe you expect us to join in as well and cry in vain.

8 Nancy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:23:45pm

Yes, this is a favorite among the Muslim youth --they seem to recycle it every so often.

Must be (to them) one of those "inspirational" stories.

It rates up with Khattab --their Chechyen hero.

Strange cult.

9 FH  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:27:26pm

Normally, I don't like to say that so and so is going to hell. Its not my place to decide such matters. But if there is anybody, anybody at all whom I just know is going to hell, its the scum who wrote this.

10 Kestrel  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:28:54pm

We have these animals in our midst, enjoying the
fruits and freedom this country offers and they
worship the hijackers?

Why are they here?

Why don't they move to one of the Muslim paradises...
Egypt and Saudi Arabia come to mind.

They want their cake and eat it too...a time worn
cliche, but true.

Reading that garbage makes me want to spill some
Muslim blood.

11 Nova  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:34:18pm

So they are at war with the modern age, yet use the internet to spread their twisted beliefs and love of death, very sick. I think Engineer's comment in #4 has it about right.

12 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:37:22pm

I'm sorry for not being pc (yeah, right...), but it is about time for ordinary people to take the war against "militant Islam" into their own hands.

And "militant Islam" is anyone of that "faith," as far as I'm concerned, who doesn't credibly abhor and abjure the acts of their co-religionists.

And any Palestinean (they get honorary membership, if for no other reason than that none of them, from the cute little rock thrower kids up to the rag-brain mamas so clearly in evidence in the news photos, appear to be anything other than bandits and scum de genera.

It will come to that, I truly believe. We can be a tolerant society, an open society, a multicultural pluralistic society- everything except a "bend over and spread your cheeks" society. I'm drawing the line there.

If any of us can do anything to stop these people- to interfere with their plans, to deny them assistance, to cause them difficulty and, yes, to hurt them, in any way and in every way, we should.

It's time. Let's roll...


D. Edgren

13 Engineer  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:42:13pm

As you can tell from my post in #4, I am just a little mad. I read some of the other posts on that site. Don't bother, they are all the same. Somehow, I get the feeling that they really believe the shit they wrote. That's really too bad for them since there is only one cure for that level of stupidity combined with evil.

14 Model4  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:44:16pm
by Muadh bin Abdullah Al-Madani, Uruzgan, Afghanistan

How'd that fight turn out, Muadh? And would it be rude of me to point out that you haven't managed to fly your laptop into any high-value Crusader targets? Nice to see you writing in a language that matters though, even if it was a creepy second person outing.

15 Rusty Shackleford  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:45:43pm

Gentleman,
The time has come declare open season on jawas. This..makes...me...so.....arrrggghhhh!!!!

www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com

16 smiley  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:46:40pm

Oh oh oh, I want to ask him how those hot burning girders felt sliding into his rib cage or the millions of shards of glass felt shredding his intestines into ground beef. Or maybe he watch his fellows die without saying the pray first and realizing, as he hung his emptying bladder on a Daycare bedpost for the day, that his friend was headed for Infidel Hell and there wasn't a thing he could do about it.
Tsk.
We never learn that the kingdom of God is within us all and that we often create our own heaven and hell. A suicide supposedly lives the life of all those he/she touched through their eyes and bodies for all eternity without respite.
Just think of all the gass Hitler is passing and roasting hes doing and you'll have an idea of why I want to ask one of those 19 so-called Lions why they still feel like such pussies.

17 Grandma  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:47:47pm

What a disgusting glorification of everything that is truly evil and unholy. Those that derive their inspiration from the soul-less filth that committed these, and every other terror atrocity in the name of their allah, may just not find a Paradise or a Hell. They just might find themselves obliterated in the after-life, if one exists. How fitting it would be for them to be reduced to the absolute nothingness they most justly deserve. And they wouldn’t even know it.

18 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:53:07pm

We all need to step up to the plate and call a spade a spade. We need to quit with the lying pc crap. If it's the truth so be it, state it as so.
If the so called silent majority of muslims 'feel' insulted, abused or threatened...tough shit. It's their house and if they can't or won't clean it up eventually they are going to get some help doing so. And this is whether they want it or not..
Ya know that's another thing that truly scares me about Kerry, in his politicking he says absolutely nothing important about the danger we are all in here....just that it's exaggerated.

Maybe we'll be lucky if he gets elected and the next plane will slam into the building he's in.

19 logger phd  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:58:14pm

Great, another American celberity has outed herself as an Idiotarian --overseas:

Renee Zellweger

Don't let her Texas roots fool you. . . .

20 iagofest a.k.a. abu fly killa  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 2:58:44pm

Interesting. The post mentions nothing about how the "brave" 19 slashed the throats of unarmed civilians. Animals.

21 Attaboid  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:02:07pm

These are but satanic verses.

22 Judith  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:03:33pm

Can I go puke now?

If this is Islam then it is time to remove every last trace of this religion from the world. This form of "Islam" should be obliterated as thoroughly as the Caananites were.

23 superfly  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:04:17pm

I'd bet my firstborn that this version is more accurate:


Hijackers surprised to find selves in Hell

24 Attaboid  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:07:03pm

s/b butt.

25 Cooper for President  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:07:48pm

Engineer (#13 post).

Ditto to your #4 post.

And we're supposed to bow down and kiss their asses.... We'll I won't.

Un - f'ing - believable.

We can't let Kerry win the White House, or we're through. The guy didn't even have the balls to stop Sodom when he invaded Kuwait. Kerry is an NPR listening, ginger tea drinking, dainty bite taking, UN coddling, weak willed coward, who married a domineering woman for HER money. And did I mention Mr. Kerry looks like an old sea hag? That's just the icing on the cake (falafel) really.

And yes, he WAS brave in Vietnam. That doesn't make up for his behavior over the past three decades. Prick.

26 FabioC.  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:09:47pm

It's when I read these perverted statements I think for a while that the appropriate response should be "Do you think your god is bad ass, don't you? Well, guys, let's talk again about it after you have tasted this 400kt nuclear god's fist..."

Seriously, Islamic fanatics are out of this world; they live in their own fantasy made of a cult of death, hate for every and each diversity, 72 virgins and similar crap.

Usually I tend not to cheer at the death of fellow humans, even if nasty. But Islamic fanatics are a big exception

27 Stephen  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:10:19pm

F'ing cowards. Their allies are the dithering democrats finding reasons for restraint. America inflicted enormous casualties on the Germans and Japanese. We are ferocious when aroused, so watch out you twits. Your time will come.
[Link: www.doctor-horsefeathers.com...]

28 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:12:21pm

10 Kestrel

We have these animals in our midst, enjoying the fruits and freedom this country offers and they worship the hijackers?

You cant be serious. They are not in the USA. Surely not.

29 Let's Roll  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:12:21pm

#12   D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)

You called?

30 logger phd  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:12:31pm

#25 Cooper

I think he looks like Treebeard, and I hope I don't incur the Ents' wrath for that comparison. . . .

31 Free Speech Is Only For Uber-Libs  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:13:11pm

Kerry voters.

32 ralph  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:17:57pm
obliterating an Idol of the Modern Age.

I thought that was in Mecca.

33 Morgan  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:18:04pm

This murderous evil is all that is left of the Islamic religion. The political and religious leaders of the Muslim world celebrate death and call for Jihad. And the Muslims of the West refuse to speak out in opposition to the killers and haters. And despite what any "civil rights" groups say, the Muslim in America are not backing down. Here at New York University, Muslim students are demanding that the school join the Arab embargo against Israel. They tasted victory on September 11th and it made them hungry for more.

[Link: www.nyunews.com...]

34 Engineer  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:21:09pm

#28 DP

Registrant:
Halal Flowers
3400 RearMont Drive
Staten Island, NY 10304
US

Domain Name: CLEARGUIDANCE.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Halal Flowers
Abu Hidayaah
3400 RearMont Drive
Staten Island, NY 10304
US
718-912-8734
maktabah_alsalafiyah@yahoo.com

Domain created on 01-Feb-2001
Domain expires on 01-Feb-2005
Last updated on 28-Sep-2003

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM
NS2.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM

35 ansonicus  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:21:45pm

I cannot believe there are vermin out there glorifying these 19 barbarians.

Friday I went to get my hair cut in the small town I live in. Next door to the barber shop is the old Western Auto that has been converted into a "Mosque". These guys were in formation out back in white robes, a very sinister looking group. Hope their Imam doesn't give them the signal to self destruct (and take some of us with them). They kiss each other on the cheeks and adopt the rituals of the "old country". Why don't they move their?

Excuse my rant but I don't trust these people!

36 Wonderduck  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:23:13pm
On a historic sunny September morning in 2001, a few men, armed with little more than their faith, brought the greatest modern military might to her knees.

Riiiiight. From which, the greatest modern military was in a good firing position, so they hoisted their sniper rifles and proceeded to take down their enemies en masse.

Or didn't you notice that the Taliban is missing in action, Iraq ain't funding terrorism anymore, and Saddam is in a jail cell.

Those "19 martyrs" you speak of were the root cause of your ultimate failure. You are dead. D-E-D, dead. You just haven't stopped twitching yet, you buffoon.

Enjoy your pleasure while it lasts, buffoon.

37 Rusty Shackleford  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:27:38pm

Folks

I have taken the time to rewrite the story, but from a slightly different perspective....

[Scene: Northern Alliance Front Lines]
On a historic sunny November morning in 2001, a few men, armed with little more than their faith, rudimentary GPS locaters, and a satellite phone brought the greatest force for evil on earth to her knees.......

[Cut to Air Force B-52 Bomber]
“Fasten your seat belt,” you kid to your co-pilot. You buckle up just a little tighter. Your co-pilot goes over the mission one more time, you ignore him as usual. The plane is ushered onto the runway; there is a slight pause and then the sounds of the engine rise to a crescendo in tandem with the adrenaline surging through your blood. The plane ascends, a brief pause, now you are flying. Your pulse is racing, you can feel your heart thudding against your chest; admonishing yourself you increase your remembrance of the horror of the Twin Towers. You look at your watch. In your mind, the countdown which began the day you were given your mission details moves closer to zero hour. You pick up the mission brief one last time, appearing to flick through the pages you once more go over the details of the bombing operation: soon there will be no room for error.

[cut back to the front lines]
The minutes move too slowly, you are eager to send them to Hell: finally the time arrives. Without a glance you rise from your seat behind Northern Alliance lines and dart to the top of the hill. Securing control of your satellite phone, you set your sights on your target. As the plane approaches, you look about you at the faces of your Northern Alliance brothers in arms and all you see is the blazing light shining off their faces. Attempting to conceal your delight you direct the plane towards the Talliban outpost, with a prayer you shout ‘Allahu Akbar (Allah is the Greatest)’ to your new allies, knowing the end of the Talliban is at hand, as you graciously guide the plane's GPS guided bombs into the Talliban outpost, obliterating an Idol of the Middle Ages.

This is obviously merely a guess, we will have to wait for the exact details as the first hand account is classified information reserved for the inhabitants of Langley Virginia (and for those in Hell, who know the wrath of the American Air Force!), and I ask God that it is so. If God overlooks my countless sins and showers mercy upon me in far excess of what I deserve and grants me heaven; I will ask the CIA Operatives, perhaps Johnny Micheal Spannin (first CIA KIA Afghanistan) particular, to tell his story time and time again, and when signs of boredom appear on his face, I will move onto another of those involved in bringing the most barbaric regime on earth down. Perhaps moving onto William Carlson (RIP-CIA KIA Afghanistan), or Christopher Glenn Mueller (RIP-CIA KIA Afghanistan)(whose died tracking down Al Qaida SOBs in Afghanistan) for I will never tire of hearing about this tale of unparalleled valour.

Now that is a story to be told over and over....
[Link: www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com...] Dedicated to the brave men who died in Afghanistan

38 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:27:43pm

I'm writing something more considered, which I'll post later, but I have to say now, here, after reading most of the posts on this thread, that folks still don't get it.

Shouting imprecations (#4), throwing up (#22), keeping Kerry out of the White House (#18, 25), asking rhetorical questions (#14, 16), or talking about how enraged we've become in the past #27) won't get it.

AT THE RISK OF OFFENDING ANY FRIENDS I MIGHT HAVE ON LGF...THESE PEOPLE ARE COMING FOR US NOW.

Now. Right now.

The time for talking about this is past. The time for action is now. We have got to make these people understand who they are dealing with.

We must become (no apologies for the Rambo-speak) their worst nightmare.

Now. Not tomorrow. Not after they kill a bunch of us again.

Now.


D. Edgren

39 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:27:46pm

With all of the legislature seats up for grabs, and part of the senate we may see more trouble down the road than just Kerry. If the democrats gain control we're gonna see lots of heartache, trouble and raised taxes like you ain't gonna believe.

On top of the trouble that none of them seem to be interested in. They will prognosticate just like before WWII, and we'll find ourselves in mortal danger and deep doo doo.
I don't know if any of the moonbats are capable of even igniting their own survival instincts let alone for the country when all hell breaks loose.

maybe I need a drink. :(

40 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:31:58pm

From the FAQ page of the CG website:

"2B. Our policy regarding discussions on Current Affairs is as such:


Since the commencement of ClearGuidance, its founders felt one of the problems plaguing Muslims in general, and Muslim countries specifically, was the amount of foriegn intervention into Muslim politics. In an attempt to change this as much as they possibly could, they decided that as a general guideline, only Muslim's should participate in discussions on Current Affairs. "

Gee, wonder why there is all that "foriegn intervention"?
Maybe because if these groutclowns blow up the world to see Allen we go with them?

41 Model4  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:32:31pm

I've been bummed and furious over the recent abduction/murder of that girl in Florida. Yeah, these things will happen in any population as large as ours, but over the past couple of years we can't go very long without hearing of another one, with the kicker being that the perpetrator is a known freaking felon, often previously determined to be violent and a sexual predator. Yet we keep hearing how the judge/parole board thought the best thing for all parties involved (presumably including we, the people) is to give them as much leniency as possible and put them back on the street. Then we get to all come together as a community and walk around through the weed looking for the remains of what was an innocent human being.

Anyhow that's totally off topic. What I meant to say is that we should be importing as many people as possible into our neighborhoods who believe that their god wants them to kill and hate in his name. If any difficulties arise, we should give them as much leniency as possible, and figure out that giving them more access and leeway will be the best thing for all parties involved.

42 Sgt Canuck  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:34:50pm

Ha, ha ha, that site has a section on Personality Development . Now is that an oxymoron or just a morons oxy? It amazes me the infantile thinking that goes on in the heads of Muslands Mullahs. To think I spent most of my life dreaming I would die in the arms of Sofia Loran, when there were alternatives to be had elsewhere. Oh well...

43 doc  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:35:32pm

"By their fruits ye shall know them."
Matthew 7:20

44 Chuck Young  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:36:55pm

I think we should be more understanding of the heartfelt desires of these deeply committed religionists. I believe we can join together to assist them to their ultimate destination. If they desire martyrdom at the hands of an evil crusader, I for one feel up to the task.
Any takers?

45 Engineer  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:37:05pm

I just Googled for "Abu Hidayaah" the contact for that site. Only two results. One for a blog with information from a web site the creep ran called TALIBAN-NEWS.COM that had pictures of dead American GIs. That site is no longer on the web.

The other result Google had was for my post above if you can believe.

This guy has been in trouble before for hosting terrorist sites web hosting talk

46 Vlad the Impaler  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:37:48pm

The disgusting part is that these cockroaches are right here in our country, spitting on us and soiling the very air by their presence.

I wish that we had a President with balls.

47 SteveS  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:42:21pm

Ended up in Paradise, did they? Not according to The Onion:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

48 020704  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:43:39pm

I really wonder whether there's a tortious infliction of emotional distress suit in this crap.

Any family members of 9/11 victims out there?

Ask your lawyer --- can't you sue these bastards? At least close down the website?

No kidding. Try it. Ask.

49 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:44:57pm

34 Engineer

I just CANNOT believe this. How can the US allow this? Was the US allowing the Japanese to celebrate Pearl Harbor during WWII. What the hell is going on in the US?

Many in LGF castigate Europeans on attitues to the war etc. But this is truly beyond belief.

Some months ago on LGF I wrote that 9/11 would always be considered by many Muslims as the day they delivered a might defeat to the Great Satan, the USA. 9/11 was not just a defeat but a lesson that was being taught to the USA. The fact that the towers came down, is seen by Muslims as the will of allah. A confirmation of their belief that they are on the side of righteous. 9/11 was thus a spectacular revelation in Muslim minds.

A similar attitude was in the minds of Japanese in WWII, even though they knew they were losing the war. They knew in their hearts that even if defeated, they would always cherish, that they had dealt the US a defeat in a spectacular way ie a grand spectacle. Nothing they thought, could take that away from them.

Well they, the Japs were wrong; very wrong. The US dealt them an even greater spectacle. Not once but twice.The spectacle was so bright and spectacular that all visions and hopes of Japanese honour in defeat were lost for good.

I'm afraid and sad to say, that nothing short of a similar spectacle will have to be dealt by the US yet again, to make Muslims lose their pride and satisafaction over 9/11.

50 zulubaby  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:45:07pm

Model4 (#41)

Right Wing Conspirator gave him a blessing on the other thread:

I hope you rot away until the pain is unbearable and when death finally claims you, that you burn in hell for all eternity.

To which I responded, amen.

51 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:46:33pm

Re: #34

Registrant:
Halal Flowers
3400 RearMont Drive
Staten Island, NY 10304
US

Domain Name: CLEARGUIDANCE.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Halal Flowers
Abu Hidayaah
3400 RearMont Drive
Staten Island, NY 10304
US
718-912-8734
maktabah_alsalafiyah@yahoo.com

Domain created on 01-Feb-2001
Domain expires on 01-Feb-2005
Last updated on 28-Sep-2003

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM
NS2.DOMAINDISCOVER.COM

What can we do with this information to shut this website down?

52 zulubaby  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:48:23pm

roach (#1)

Even these murderous psychos must conceal from themselves what they're doing, lest their conscience catch up to their fanaticism.

Excellent way of putting it, but you're assuming they have a conscience.

53 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:49:09pm

I'm now fairly convinced that the rising Muslim population, both from immigration and high demographic growth rate, poses a threat far greater then any number of future September elevens. The jubilation and glee among Muslims, even within the West itself, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, should concentrate our minds. Any prudent policy dictates that we protect our own house first rather then costly and ineffective foreign adventures.

This threat I believe is so great, that despite our abhorrence at the idea, we should stop all immigration of Muslims, both primary and secondary. Instead of bogus Muslim asylum seekers claiming persecution in Muslim countries, we should offer hope, help and asylum to the terribly subjugated, intimidated and spiritually broken Christians in Islamic countries. These people need our assistance more then any. For reasons of cultural affinity, they will readily integrate and assimilate in the West. They and their descendents will never be an existential threat, now or in the future, to the culture and the freedoms we take so much for granted.

54 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:49:40pm

#39 quark2:

I'm convinced many libs want the war to be over because:

-#1: They're bored with it (short attention span).
-#2: They're afraid GWB will get some credit for doing something, and hating the guy is their religion, like Baptists hate the Devil.
-#3: The war distracts from the traditional essential liberal causes, i.e. more sugar and that free mule you've been dreaming about. Gay marriage is much more important than stemming the tide of Islamist expansionism which doesn't exist, anyhow, as far as the typical LLL is concerned.
-#4: Security issues are not vote getters to the Democratic base, so why bother?.
-#5: Knee-jerk siding with the US's enemies; "Fight the power, brothers!"
-#6: An abysmal knowledge of 20th century history,
forgetting all the painfully won experience about letting fascism grow unhindered. And Islamism IS fascism , at least to yours truly, just without the industrial state to back it up.
-#7: Wars are always bad things, except when a Democratic president with good poll numbers launches one that isn't in the US's interests (see Bosnia).
-And #8: They are pantswetting blithering idiots with the brainpower of a wet sack of cement and the inability to see danger when it comes up and bites them on their skanky little butts.

Geez, I believe I will have that drink now.

55 its jake  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:50:47pm

With little more than their faith, the 19 Islamists managed to bring the greatest clerical, janitorial, and professional workplace to its knees.

What brave p-ssies.

56 Mr Pol  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:50:53pm

#51 Sydney Carton

There is no "Halal Flowers" at that address. This is a violation of the ICANN rules. Should be enough to get the domain registration yanked.

57 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:51:58pm

re: 56, Mr. Pol.

I'm not sure what you mean. In any event, I took that asshat's email address and signed him up to about 20 different porn mailing lists. He should be bombarded with email soon enough.

58 its jake  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:52:43pm

020704 - Infliction of emotional distress, without some physical contact, requires conduct so extreme and outrageous as to be intolerable to the conscience.

59 gymnast  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:53:02pm

But we are a nation of laws and these laws protect the rights of all the people of our great nation,however, these shitbirds keep it up and pretty soon the Law of the Jungle is going to kick in and then some people will rue the day they chose to bless this shore with with their presence and an unwillingness to asimilate and join the most bountiful society on earth. E Pluribus Unim or stay the hell home, its listed on the wrapper.

60 Let's Roll  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:53:23pm

These miserable sons of bitches worldwide have only 2 weapons.

1) The ability (necessity) to hide in shadows and caves instead of facing their enemies like men.

2) Our civilityand humanity. If the tables were turned, and they had the power we have, they would absolutely, absolutely, absolutely use everything they had to kill every last one of us.

61 The Law Student  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:53:26pm

I do agree with the jihadis that Muhammedans are not humans. I disagree with calling them lions. I think Muhammeds are more like cockaroaches, or rats. I would feel guilty killing a majestic lion, I would not feel guilty killing a million cockaroaches or Muhammeds.

62 logger phd  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:55:11pm

#61 The Law Student

Like cockroaches, you throw on the lights and they all scatter.


"Raaaaaaaaiiiii-aaaaaiiiiiid!"

63 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:55:26pm

#57 Sidney Carton:

But, but, but the website rules specifically prohibit flirting with the opposite sex! Although, now that I think about it, the content you've graciously sent may go beyond flirting..............

64 020704  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:57:44pm

I've got to believe there's at least ONE family member of a 9/11 victim reading this list.

Has to be a family member --- spouse, parent, or child ---- to have rights to "wrongful death" claims.

A suit against this wacko ClearGuidance site for intentional infliction of emotional distress would include all kinds of "discovery" --- factfinding that would flush out a lot of the shit this stuff grows in.

And could COST some of the people involved. And really could shut the site down.

Seriously, ask your lawyer.

Monuments are nice --- but fighting back is better.

65 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:58:11pm

#58 its jake:

From that description, I think Janet Jackson owes a lot of people a lot of money.

66 Baldy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 3:58:43pm

***
John McIntire: Review of Dennis Miller's Change on 9-11

Miller says he doesn’t understand why everyone else wasn’t changed by 9/11. We were, initially. We got over it.

To read article: Click "Views", Select "McIntire" (Pittsburgh City Paper. John McIntire is a local TV commentator)

67 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:01:26pm

66 Baldy:

"We got over it" translates in my decoder to "We pissed our pants thinking we had to step up to the plate like our parents or grandparents did in WWII and ran away, instead. And are still running to this day."

68 Massive deportation for these scumbags  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:03:37pm

#DP #53

You got it exactly right. But moving into that direction will take many more thousand of us American killed on our own soil and abroad. 9/11 was clearly not enough. The PC is firmly in power and as a consequence many more of us will die at muslim hands. It's inevitable.

However, people in America are now generally starting to see the light about islam and muslims (even if because of PC thought-control and its real penalties many would never say it aloud).

69 Athos  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:04:58pm

Where are the non-radical Muslims - taking action against people "using" their religion in this manner?

Frankly, if you are a Muslim, and you don't take ACTION against these people within your own faith - you are also guilty as they are, you are as much against civilization as they are, and you are our enemy as much as they are.

There are too many people who look the other way, who don't want to get involved, who don't think that they are targets.

Ask the 3000 who died on 9/11 if they thought they were targets. Ask them if they prefer we just forget about their murder because of politics and multiculturalism.

Sheesh.

If they want paradise so much, we should oblige them. They started the WAR. It's time for us to FINISH it.

70 Buckeye Abroad  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:05:51pm

#41 Model4

...the perpetrator is a known freaking felon, often previously determined to be violent and a sexual predator. ...Then we get to all come together as a community and walk around through the weed looking for the remains of what was an innocent human being.

First, and foremost, thanks for bringing up the topic. I read the same a day ago and feel nothing but contempt for the judicial system the allows the murders of children back into circulation. Did you know the time a child rapist is convicted he is on average (nationally) doing time for his 25th victim? I have loads of family and friends in law-enforcement/corrections (state) and the convicts doing time for child molestation are openly talking about "pounding" their next victim before released back into the public. This scum should be hanging from lampposts, but I am sure the ACLU has something to gain...oops, say about that.

Justice is long gone if you cannot afford it. You have to prevail on your own.

71 Hassen bin Sober  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:06:09pm

#38 D Edgren

... is completely correct. Now is the time to act.

American society - civilians and armed forces - completely, 100% unprepared for deployment into WWII, only became effective when we learned to HATE the enemies - Germans and Japanese. Absolute, no-compunction, full-bore hatred - for what they did to us and, soon thereafter, for who they were.

I have such hatred for those in the Cult of Mohammed. I relish it and believe that I am right when I feed my hatred for these scum. There is no time to personalize it, intellectualize it, or even think about it anymore.

These bastards, all of them, must go down, until they are broken, until defeat is accepted and surrender is unconditional.

Kill or be killed. I don't see any other way, and I hate them.

72 okimutt  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:06:40pm

Hey, #42, Sgt. Canuck- I have a Sophia Loren cookbook. It's great but I didn't buy it for the recipes.
Anyway, these loons are 180 degrees out of phase
with the civilized world. We need some serious Psy-Ops-
Allah commands cement shoes, boat anchor necklaces
and lead threaded robes before swimming. It's a stretch
but think of all the ammo we'd save.

73 Pickle  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:07:33pm

Reported to the FBI, along with the registration info. I'm sure they're probably already aware of this piece of shit, but at least I feel better doing something about it.

74 Mr Pol  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:08:03pm

#57 Sydney Carton

The ICANN rules require to have published in the whois database valid information about the registrar of a domain. See here:

C. Registrar file. A single file shall be provided reporting on the registrars sponsoring registered domains and nameservers. For each registrar, the following data elements shall be given: registrarid, registrar address, registrar telephone number, registrar e-mail address, whois server, referral URL, updateddate and the name, telephone number, and e-mail address of all the registrar's administrative, billing, and technical contacts.

The name and address of the registrar of the clearguidance.com domain are not correct. Either they are corrected, or the domain registration should be yanked.

75 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:08:04pm

It's time for a George Patton quote: "If these Hun bastards want war in the raw, let's give it to them"

Just substitute "Islamist" for "Hun".

76 020704  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:09:08pm

#58 jake

This is a very special instance - a case could fly. And even if it didn't (which I think it probably would), it would bring this shit into the light. That, in itself, would be a victory, since NYT and nobody else is going to publicize it.

77 gmroper  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:12:20pm

I'm beginning to think that we need a secret organization to visit these lunkheads and teach them some serious manners. I volunteer!

78 Buckeye Abroad  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:12:55pm

#49 DP

Many in LGF castigate Europeans on attitues to the war etc...

Some of us here on LGF live in Europe... you would be surprised of the attitude here.

79 Rusty Shackleford  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:13:29pm

#71 agreed. Look at all the old propoganda films of the era. What we need is some good old fashion Bugs Bunny films poking fun at the entire Islamic world. "Islamofascists iz zee cwaziest people!"
I think the closest we have in this generation is the famous "Osama bin Laden Has Farty Pants" episode of South Park. If you haven't seen it you have missed the boat. That is the kind of thing that needs to soak into the popular culture. Can anyone imagine "the greatest generation" being too sheepish to openly make fun of the enemy. FDR must be rolling over in his grave.

80 aaron  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:13:30pm

Clearguidance operates out of Ohio. The info in the whois is bogus.

They have also taken to issuing fatwas. See:

clearguidance.com posts fatwa against Muslims who assist the USA
[Link: haganah.us...]

and

Clearguidance.com posts fatwa supporting Jihad against America, not just Americans in Iraq
[Link: haganah.us...]

81 Ed Moran:Abu الله Sucks Kosher Dicks  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:18:15pm

If that guy is in Staten Island, I wish somebody would punch his teeth down his throat, and gouge out his eyes with his thumb, while shouting "Allah Naqba".

Not that I'd condone that.

82 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:18:54pm

re #64,

A brief primer on the law of emotional distress:

The guy is located in Staten Island. Thus, New York law would apply. There are two types of "emotional distress" lawsuits: Intentional infliction of emotional distress, and negligent infliction of emotional distress.

ELEMENTS OF INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS:

1> Defendant must engage in OUTRAGEOUS conduct (conduct that exceeds all bounds of decency tolerated in a civilized society)
2> Mere insults are NEVER CONSIDERED OUTRAGEOUS.
3> If the behavior is continuous or repetitive, it is probably outrageous.
4> If the plaintiff is a member of a FRAGILE CLASS OF PERSONS (young children, the elderly, or pregnant women).
5> Hyper-Sensitive Plaintiffs do not qualify, unless the defendant specifically knew of the hyper-sensitivity.
6> The plaintiff MUST suffer emotional distress (no physical manifestations required, but the distress must be SEVERE).

ELEMENTS OF NEGLIGENT INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS:

1> The defendant must be negligent (aka: breached a duty of care to person)
2> The Plaintiff must be exposed to a RISK OF PHYSICAL HARM WITHIN THE ZONE OF DANGER (aka: must be in physical peril)
3> The plaintiff must show a subsequent PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION of the distress.


Negligent infliction is pretty hard, because it typically involves dodging a car or something like that. A person must be in a "zone of danger." Intentional influction of emotional distress is a little easier, because it doesn't require a zone of danger or a physical manifestation of the distress, but the standard of "outrageous conduct" is much, much higher. Mere insults aren't enough.

One would have a very difficult time proving that one website out there caused one person emotional distress, because sitting alone, that website can't continuously harass you or repeat outrageous conduct against you, unless you keep visiting the website (which would mitigate against showing how distressed you are).

I'm a lawyer, but I wouldn't trust the civil law to take down this website. But with that man's address, email, and PHONE NUMBER, I'm certain that a creative mind could find a way to make this person think twice about what he's doing.

83 Buckeye Abroad  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:20:33pm

#74 Mr Pol

How is Caton doing? Been wondering if he and the family are ok. (Go off line if you want - email above).

84 Ms. Andi  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:22:50pm

Thanks for the links Aaron. I'm glad your website is still public. Are you still being hassled by an "abc" agency?

85 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:23:00pm

re #74,

Ok. If the information is bogus, is there someone we can contact at ICANN to get the domain name pulled?

86 Belize042  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:23:24pm

They are delusional beyond belief and, at the same time, quite dangerous. The act of "unparalleled valour" involved stabbing unarmed women and flying into buildings. Wow. Rambo they ain't.

And this: ...brought the greatest modern military might to her knees. So, er, who kicked the Taliban's ass in a matter of weeks in Afghanistan, and handed the Saddamites' to them in even less time in Iraq? The vanquished U.S. military? Damn, we can obliterate our foes even after being brought to our knees. If we bother to stand up to dust you off, watch out.

Still, their multi-pronged assault on the civilized world continues apace. Banning speech and exhibits that may be "offensive" to Muslims, continuing Visa Express lest the State Department be called "racist," and sending billions of dollars to Middle Eastern lunacracies are signs that the bad guys are making progress in their war.

I wonder: How much care did Americans exert during WWII to avoid offending the sensibilities of Germans and Japanese? Then again, we showed the will to win that war unconditionally. That hasn't happened with this war.

87 Paladin  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:23:42pm

Next time there's a 9/11 or something remotely like it, heads will roll -- literally.


Islamic heads.

88 Engineer[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:25:25pm
89 Ed Moran:Abu الله Sucks Kosher Dicks  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:30:09pm

Was it Cinncinnati or Cleveland that had the Muslim Hitler loving deli (from an old LGF post). Is it just because Ohio is next to Michigan, or is there something about proximity to Lake Erie that draws the a$$holes.


Don't we have laws about people calling for violent acts to overthrow the government?


Arrest them, and send them to Noriega's Fed supermax jail.

90 Sydney Carton[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:30:19pm
91 Geepers  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:32:24pm

Rusty Shackleford (#79),

What we need is some good old fashion Bugs Bunny films poking fun at the entire Islamic world.

You can just forget about that, even here on LGF if someone refers to them as "[bigoted word]s" they get a PC tongue lashing for being insensitive.

Christ, Hollywood even took the Islamist out of Sum of all Fears because they are such pussies about offending people whose stated goal is to kill us.

Any chance of mainstream media outlet doing it? Ha! CAIR and the ACLU would be down on them like a ton of bricks, howling "Hate crime, Hate crime."

While defending "The Nineteen Lions' as critical insight and reflective prose.

92 andthenblammo![deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:34:24pm
93 Model4  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:37:26pm

#90 Sydney Carton: You could tip him off that he's being watched, giving him time to destroy evidence, cover his tracks, and escape prosecution by the feds.

Not that I in any way think or know that's in the works. If you see filth like this and don't draw attention to it, you've blown it. If you expose it prematurely, you've blown it. It's the awful position our government has put us in with their rose-colored glasses kid-gloved RoP portrayal of a war.

94 andthenblammo![deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:37:51pm
95 Engineer[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:39:16pm
96 Sydney Carton[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:39:22pm
97 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:40:35pm

re #93,

No, you're right. I guess we shouldn't inadvertantly tip him off. But with this information, we should certainly hand it to someone who SHOULD be watching him, if they are....

98 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:41:40pm

There will be more than 3000 the next time.
But maybe the sleeping cowards that have gotten over it should ask the ones who were witnessed jumping to their deaths how they feel now.
It's the same old shit, people would rather diddle in life even when directly faced with danger than face up to it.
It's the same fatal attitude the french are just now beginning to wake up to.
There's bloody war coming. I don't know the date. But I can tell you all, watch your backs always.

One thing that could be done here swftly. All ISPs that publish websites for others can and should be held accountable for all content on their servers. I don't care if they squawk or not, at least we could get a handle on the treasonous shit we've seen being promoted domestically come to a screeching halt.
This country needs a good jarring to understand that we are operating under a declaration of war whether they like it or not.

99 Paul  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:43:45pm

Ed Moran, #89

The "anti semitic deli" is located in Cleveland, it is run by a Muslim immigrant. The offensive murals remain in place despite protests.

100 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:43:56pm

The problem is, trying to get the ISP to yank this stuff won't very well work when the person publishing it owns his own little private ISP (apparrently the case here). The only recourse is to try to get the Feds involved in watching him. Maybe they can charge him with providing material support to Terrorists, especially if he's publishing stuff from Al Qaeda.

101 Rusty Shackleford  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:45:44pm

#91 Geeper
I can see not calling them "sand-n's", because there are perfectly acceptable alterntives (said in Marky-Mark's voice).

I prefer calling them Jawas. Its just offensive enough to piss people off, but only 1/3 will even get it. Plus, it has the added bonus of completely dehumanizing the enemy. Alas, we shall never see the likes of "Bugs Bunny Nips The Nips" or Popeye's "You're a Sap, Mr. Jap". One of the greatest lessons from WWII is that propoganda works.

www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com

102 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:50:11pm

The reason that Muslims have a smile on their faces when they think of 9/11, is that on that day the US was humiliated as it has never been in its history. Not even Pearl Harbour was as humiliating as 9/11, for this humiliation was done in the full glory of LIVE COLOUR TV.
But even worse humiliation was to follow in subsequent days, as George Bush scuttled around the US for security reasons. I dont think people quite realise the significance of these events. It was NOT GWB that was scuttling around the US but the OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE US. It was the symbol of STATE that was on the run. This has never happened in the history of the US; not on Dec 7 1941 or even the Cuban missile crisis. A humiliation on the OFFICE of the President of the US, is what was inflicted on those days. No wonder then, that this brings a smile and a glow of satisafaction to Muslim hearts.
This smile of gratification that was als on Japanese faces even when they knew they were losing, had to be removed by a similar spectacle that the Japs had dealt out. The US did it and the Japanese have never been the same since.

This war will not be over till the smile and gloating on Muslim faces over 9/11, has been removed. When Muslims start to think of 9/11 as the Mother of all al- naqbas, is the day we will have won.

69 Athos

Where are the non-radical Muslims - taking action against people "using" their religion in this manner?

Not now, here or ever.

The reason is that the so called moderate muslims have not had to pay any price whatever because of the actions of their brethren. Quite the contrary, as the President has gone out of his way to raise their profile as respectable members of the RoP.

If however they had to pay a price, for instance deportation on a grand scale, then the US would be drowned out in the voices of moderate muslims castigating the Jihadis, for the fate that had befallen all muslims.

Right now the Islamic community is having the best of both worlds. The jihadis are waging war in their name while the President is honouring Islam as the RoP. So why should moderate or otherwise muslims wish to change the status?

103 wretchard  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:50:34pm

But if one wrote:

"as Mecca filled the target sights, John Q. Christian exclaimed for joy. 'Hallelujah!', he said, just as he pickled off the 200 kt gravity bomb which destroyed the Idol of the Muslims and thousands who had gathered to worship it."

it would not only be bad writing; not only hate speech, but the portrait of a sick soul. It is to avoid becoming like that that America has embarked on a progam of liberating the Middle East.

104 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:55:40pm

As has been pointed out before, "Halal Flowers" is a pseudonym, possibly referring to the "blossoming" of exploding shaheeds (it's supposedly a pretty common metaphor, actually).

105 Ed Moran:Abu الله Can Bite Me 2004!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:57:49pm

Rusty

I can never see using sand-n*ggers as a name for Arabs, as I have served in the Navy with several fine African-Americans, not to mention that some of our nations finest who died fighting Saddam and the Taliban were black.


Black people find that name insulting, and to have to resort to racial epiphets against the followers of the Arabian moon-god death cult is wrong.

106 Geepers  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:58:51pm

Rusty Shackleford (#101),

One of the greatest lessons from WWII is that propoganda works.

True, but propaganda has turned into a dirty word. And we will never see it used again. Hell, you can't even say the truth about islam without getting pilloried.

107 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 4:59:34pm

98 quark2

It's the same fatal attitude the french are just now beginning to wake up to. There's bloody war coming.

Right on that. There is a major war coming.

The French are atleast waking up to the danger within, but it seems the US is still asleep.

108 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:00:00pm

@96 Sydney Carton

Since it's been proven in court cases that things such as autos can be used as deadly weapons, why can't servers be viewed the same way? I mean since they've discovered that the terrorists are using the internet...ie, servers as instruments of communications to advance the use of deadly weapons why can't this be charged against this socalled professor/terrorist enabler?
We can turn this guy into the FBI, although we don't know he isnt' already under survellience. There seems to be alot of them in that area as well as the mid east coast being tailed, watched and apprehended.

Shit...if Kerry gets in office is he going to stop this activity of apprehending these shitheads?

109 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:02:12pm

Belize042 (#86)

the will to win that war unconditionally.

Thank you for saying, 86 posts into this thread, what we must accept to win the war we are in today.

We must have the will to act unconditionally. We must put aside our notions of the rules, because "militant Islam," like the Axis powers of which it is the successor-in-interest, does not abide by the rules. Indeed, it does not recognize the rules, unless they afford a benefit.

There are targets in this war that, at every level, can be struck and defeated. We can do this at the federal level, the state and local levels, but most important is that we choose to act unconditionally at the personal level. Sort of like grassroots politics- we will change things from the bottom up.

I would like to see a clearinghouse for maintaining a list of actions that each of us could take every day in working to defeat this enemy. It's easy, in this cynical day and time, to make fun of "victory gardens" and other organized wartime efforts, but they afforded the country a sense of national purpose. This time, we are all combatants- it just doesn't seem like it yet. For most it hasn't sunk in.

CAIR seems like an obvious early target. This organization only gets away with its distortion and lies because we are, by and large, cowed by the need to be politically correct.

Faced with a few hundred thousand citizens letting CAIR know that 99% of what it has to say is recognized for the bullshit that it is might give those there who flack for radical Islam pause. Holding clearguidance.com and its ilk accountable for the hate crimes committed on their websites and in their mosques is another step.

The porn site attack, Sidney (#57), from one lawyer to another, is totally unprincipled, morally bankrupt and absolutely brilliant. If only 100 LGFers each day would undertake such "resistance-quality" actions, a difference would be made.

There is much to do. There is little time.

But we, God willing (or not, if you choose not to believe in one), will prevail.


D. Edgren

110 ralph  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:02:13pm

#66 baldy

To read article: Click "Views", Select "McIntire" (Pittsburgh City Paper. John McIntire is a local TV commentator)

Jeez baldy don't let it be known that Pittsburgh contains many asshats. It could of been Lynn Cullen, Jim Ferlo,
Tony Norman, Sally Kalson, John Craig, et al. The future of America under Dhimmocratic rule is found in Pittsburgh. Bankrupt.

111 Rusty Shackleford  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:04:00pm

#106 I agree. Let's stop bitching about it and start creating our own propoganda. We need to get this stuff into the popular culture. Remember, loose lips sink ships.

I'm doing my part
[Link: www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com...]

112 Elle Plater  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:04:26pm

#57 Sydney Carton : he also uses this email address.

ebay@sasjamal.com

113 jonturner  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:07:06pm

#90 Sydney Carton

Let the folks at WorldNetDaily.com and Bill O'Reilly @ Fox News know about it. They'll investigate, confirm the details and hopefully plaster the story all over the web and TV -- "University Professor Hosts Pro-Terrorist, Pro-9/11 Website!"

The INS could "detain" the "Dr." for a day while they investigate his credentials/green card/H1-B/whatever, preferably in NYC where the fellow inmates could be told of his views regarding the attack. What a shame it would be if he managed to "commit suicide" in his cell. Would our education system ever recover from the loss?

114 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:09:16pm

87 Paladin

Next time there's a 9/11 or something remotely like it, heads will roll -- literally.

And why should there be next time?

The present status quo is just fine. The US has re-started to pay the dhimmi Jizya tax to Pakistan and other Islamic nations, that it had stopped prior to 9/11.
Moreover Islam is now the foremost religion in the minds of all Americans. That is precisely the goal of all Muslims ie to make Islam pre-eminent among all faiths.

115 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:10:03pm

@100 Sydney Carton

I looked at that website. It seems the ISP has been in business since 1988. They are hiring if anyone here is interested and lives near by.


/ducks rocks thrown her way.

116 Baldy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:12:27pm

#110 ralph - I told a friend today I was voting for Bush. He asked why. I mentioned 9-11. He asked why I would vote for somebody who "would put us [gays] in concentration camps". I said "Well, I could make crafts there." He said let's change the subject.

117 zulubaby  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:15:43pm

Baldy (#116)

I said "Well, I could make crafts there."

LOL. Who knew Bush was putting gays in concentration camps!? Why do people say such stupid things?

118 Engineer  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:16:32pm

OK, I just sent this information to Aaron at Internet Haganah and asked him what to do about it. If anybody knows, he will.

119 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:17:30pm

#116 Baldy:

What are you saying, fella, Macreme macht frei?

120 Rusty Shackleford  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:17:35pm

#116 Baldy (LOL)
Bush is putting gays in concentration camps? That settles it, I'm marching out and voting for Dean. I knew Ashcroft was really the power behind the White House!!

/end sarcasm

121 Ms. Andi  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:22:35pm

#116 Baldy

LOL! So does your friend know where these camps are located?

122 Baldy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:22:48pm

I must admit that during the '80s I believed Reagan was going to put us in camps. Then again, I was a pot-a-holic who was a client at two psychiatric hospitals...

123 andthenblammo!  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:24:59pm

@122 Baldy:

Even the immortal Frank Zappa indulged in a little of that brand of paranoia; listen to We're only in it for the Money sometime. Camp Reagan, indeed.

124 Peter Verkooijen[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:27:14pm
125 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:27:56pm

109 D.Edgren

You have the right idea. The USA has to clean up house within, first and foremost.

The US is the first and last defence of Western civilisation. If France is lost, it will be a calamity but if the US goes dhimmi, then we are all lost.

126 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:29:16pm

Here's a pic of the good professor.

[Link: www.indstate.edu...]

127 Geepers  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:29:40pm

Elle Plater (#112),

Thanks for the email address ebay@sasjamal.com

Looks like this POS has had some trouble in the past with his hosting company not being especially thrilled about the contents of his site:

sasjamal

BurstNET: you were given notice to the contact info on file regarding the situation. After that you were no longer our client. As far as yesterday was concerned, you would have needed to talk to the customer service dept and you would not have gotten your data
MeemSites: they customer support TOLD me i would have access to my data
BurstNET: they were misinformed or unaware of who you were
MeemSites: who can i speak too, i need the data off the server
MeemSites: all my cleitns data is on it
BurstNET: let me repet this. you are not getting the data off the server
BurstNET: you are no longer a client of ours
BurstNET: you were given notice to the contact on your account.
BurstNET: you chose not to respond or ignore that request

LOL. And in typical pansy muslim fashion he calls down the wrath of allah, whines, seethes, threatens and screams "Un Just" like a little girl having a hissy fit:

I swear by Allah, the most High, may he Strike me Dead if i am Lying that I was not given any notice what so ever. The Server was pulled offline yesterday So i caled them and the man told me that since my site contained Terrorist Sites, they would take my server down!

How the F* am I suppose to control what my clients put up and what they do not. if they had simpley told me what sites to take down I would have complied and taken it down.

I have been a customer of theirs for months now. Anyways I think this is a F* up thing, may Allah the most just give them what they deserve.

I run 2 companies meemSites.com and vminds.com and i ha approximately 12 sites on that particual server, some of them were clients others were mine own.

Their Behavior is Sick, and Disgusting. And on top of this, i paid a huge set up fee not to mention months of service. i swear, I never knew a company could be so Un Just.

Awww, let's all have a pitty party for poor sasjamal, the whole world is just sooo mean to him.

128 Camel Prophet  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:30:06pm

The "Clear Guidance" sources and ideology reveals: there is no separate identity between these [bigoted word]s and terrorists in the Muslim Students Association. I would like to see these jihadis, most of whom receive student loans, either deported or executed for terror incitement.

129 Peter Verkooijen  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:31:00pm

Nevermind. Hadn't seen #92 andthenblammo!'s post yet. Good work!

130 Pango  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:35:08pm

#110 ralph,
Don't forget Al Julius,He was a classic

131 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:39:44pm

There is a physical link from the ISP website that carries ClearChannel to the url that I posted above that has his picture. So yes it's the same guy.

I wonder what the university would do if it were discovered that his email on their servers was filled with pr0n. *lol

Not that I hold with something so dastardly.

132 mik  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:39:46pm

The only question I have is What are those brainless ClearGuidance readers doing in the USA?

On another hand our fearless leader, Senor Bush, is doing his part.
Under his revolutionary, America-as-we-know-it destroying immigration plan, any Moslem business can list 100 jobs openings for minimum wage for experienced plumbers, heart surgents, Moslem clerics, etc.
No American will apply or will be deemed qualified by the Moslem biz owner.

And viola! - 100 fresh shahids are coming to America, ready for explo-belt exercises.

133 Ed Moran:Abu Mis Suegros son Mejicanos  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:43:47pm

I hope Ashcroft and BushHitler don't really put gays in concentration camps. I may be married with children, but I had a 'Soft-Cell' album in the '80s, , I've been to a gay bar in New Orleans called 'Oz", and I can sing along with "Oklahoma!" and "West Side Story", and before you know it, they'll go for us 1/8 gay folks, and I'll be in the camps.

134 Engineer[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:44:14pm
135 zulubaby  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:44:26pm

Engineer (#118)

See post #80 :-)

136 Ms. Andi  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:46:04pm

Speaking of jihadi professors, what is up with Notre Dame?

Jihadi professor

"There hasn’t been an outburst, Ramadan told the press. A few internet sites have mentioned it, especially the Zionist sites."

Oh, and he comes from a lovely family too.

This fear is rooted in Ramadan’s own background. His grandfather founded Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, considered by some security experts as the forerunner of today’s Islamic militant groups.

and

His elder brother, Hani, director of Geneva’s Islamic centre, was fired from his public teaching job after he told a French newspaper that stoning a woman for adultery was acceptable.

He should be greeted with a one-way ticket back to Switzerland.

137 Belize042  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:50:31pm

#133 I hope Ashcroft and BushHitler don't really put gays in concentration camps.

That's just a big misunderstanding. Watch for a new makeover show next season, "Queer eye for the Pennsylvania Avenue guy," and all will be made clear.

138 DP  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:56:29pm

It may be worthwhile for all, if the whole article on the 19 Lions is read

[Link: www.clearguidance.com...]

139 ralph  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 5:57:13pm

#116 baldy

I said "Well, I could make crafts there."


Perhaps out of corten steel.

140 Engineer  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:01:43pm

#138 DP

I read it and others on the site also which is why I am spitting mad.

141 jonturner  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:02:42pm

#90

I think the President of Indiana State U would like to know what the good Doctor does in his spare time:

President: Lloyd W. Benjamin III
Indiana State University
217 N. Sixth St.
Terre Haute, IN 47809

1-800-GO-TO-ISU
(1-800-742-0891)


President's Office Staff:
Barbara Asay oprasay@isugw.indstate.edu
Administrative Assistant to the President
812-237-7783
Barbara J. Asay is Administrative Assistant to the President of Indiana State University. Her duties include office management, complaint and problem mediation, writing, and special projects.

Kay Gibbons Ponsot oprponso@isugw.indstate.edu
Executive Assistant
812-237-7768
Kay Ponsot, Executive Assistant, serves as scheduler and primary support for the President. Other duties include trustees liaison and events planning. Kay also serves as backup to the Administrative Assistant to the President in terms of office management.


Kay Taylor oprtayl@isugw.indstate.edu
Administrative Assistant III
812-237-8281
Ivie "Kay" Taylor, administrative assistant, is responsible for purchasing and budgets, supervision of student workers, and document production. Kay also serves as primary support for Dr. Kevin Snider in his position as Executive Assistant to the President for Strategic Planning, Institutional Research, and Effectiveness and as the backup for the executive assistant.

Rita Anderson oprander@isugw.indstate.edu
Administrative Assistant I
(812) 237-4000
Rita Anderson, Administrative Assistant I, serves as receptionist and provides general office support for the President.


The Executive Assistant to the President for External Relations, Gregory Goode, serves as liaison to members of the state legislature and other governmental agencies. plbgoode@isugw.indstate.edu
...responsibilities include serving as principal liaison with Indiana's congressional delegation and assisting in coordinating involvement with local and state communities.

Internal Audit was established by the President of Indiana State University and is authorized by the ISU Board of Trustees to assist, advise and consult with management at all levels and to provide appraisal of all University operations and activities.
The Internal Audit Department periodically performs assessments of all University operating units and control functions to identify areas of potential institutional risk. Based on these assessments and discussions with management, the Internal Audit recommends a five-year audit plan to the President.
[I would think that having a terrorist sympathizer working at the university could be called "an institutional risk."]
Contact: Sally Hunter Plbhunt@isugw.indstate.edu
Parsons Hall, Room 206
Phone: (812) 237- 7819


Other links of interest:
Governor's Office [Link: www.in.gov...]
Lt. Governor's Office [Link: www.in.gov...]
Attorney General [Link: www.in.gov...]
Indiana Department of Education [Link: ideanet.doe.state.in.us...]
Indiana General Assembly [Link: www.in.gov...]
Commission for Higher Education [Link: www.che.state.in.us...]
City of Terre Haute [Link: www.terrehaute.com...]

Can anybody find the local newspapers? I think they'd like to know more about potential domestic terrorist sympathizers in their midst.

142 stevieboy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:09:47pm

Earlier today there was a news story (found it here at lgf) news links on right. Just went to find it and for some reason I cant. It was about orgs. crying foul about AG getting college docs on groups, meetings, attendees, etc.

How timely with what you all have been doing. This war (and it is a war) must be fought on the ground by the citizenry. It cannot and will not be won in the courts (at which they only scoff and abuse).

Way to go people. (if anybody saw or has the story I was talking about, please post it)

143 Partizaner  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:11:17pm

For a crisply worded comment on how the Moscow subway bombing will be treated, consider the comments of President Vladimir Putin: "Russia does not negotiate with terrorists, it annihilates them." Read all about it at the Pravda website.

Kerry-Putin in 2004! John 'n Vlad all the way! That's a winning ticket for the Democrats.

144 quark2  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:13:52pm

Their names and sacrifices have been forgotten by the Muslims, but when, and not if, the Call to Prayer bellows through the cities of New York, London and Sydney, and the people worship none other than Allah, will then the Muslims remember the 19 Martyrs? When the chronicles of Islam are written,when the World is ruled by the Book of Allah, when on Friday save the sermon from the Leader of the Believers, silence fills the World, perhaps only then will we realize that on September2001 11 , these 19 Martyrs changed the course of History, and turned the tides of Time.


Tell me now, that this is not a clear message of the intent of the enemy to control the world through militant islam.

Indeed we need to see this man, his company and his presence in this country ended.

145 Paul  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:16:40pm

#133 Ed Moran

Why do ex-sailors always worry about being mistaken for gay?

146 John  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:18:19pm

This clearguidance website is a hoot. One of the areas includes "60 questions for the Christian" and asks such things as

If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn’t Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time?

Now this stuff is completely hilarious. The term "Christian" came about long after the death of Jesus. Now, maybe there's a Trinity, maybe there's not, but the fact is that the trinity was discussed after the resurrection among the apostles and Jesus.

I also take a bit of issue as to whether it was a "necessary condition for being a Christian" to believe in the Trinity. You can be a Christian and believe that Jesus would have driven a Ford Excursion (for the seating)

Other interesting feats by this guy include trying to deduce that the trinity can't possibly exist by reducing it to a mathematical equation.....

147 Ed Moran:Abu  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:21:02pm

Something to do with going to the bathroom in a room called "the head".


Its worse on submarines. 100 men go out, 50 couples come back.

148 jonturner  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 6:35:40pm

Just a thought... use the oh-so-helpful "Send this Article to a Friend" function of the web site [Link: www.clearguidance.com...] to email the article to the Indiana Univ. Board of Trustees along with some comments.

How thoughtful of ClearGuidance to have included this! :)

See post #141 for a list of email addresses.

149 reaganite  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:25:18pm

I haven't read one post. I got home and saw this and have to comment.

On a historic sunny September morning in 2001, a few men, armed with little more than their faith, brought the greatest modern military might to her knees.

My ASS! Cowards kill innocents. My military put those punks on their knees, if we let them live at all.

150 J.D.  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:26:03pm
Islamic militants have conducteddry runs of a devastating new style of bombing on aircraft flying to Europe, intelligence sources believe.
The tactics, which aim to evade aviation security systems by placing only components of explosive devices on passenger jets, allowing militants to assemble them in the air, have been tried out on planes flying between the Middle East, North Africa and Western Europe, security sources say. .....

Terrorist bid to build bombs in mid-flight

151 Jakester  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:26:53pm

Yeah, strike back at the Great Satan, while the Great Satan liberates your bretherns in Bosnia and you clamor for a visa and a green card to go there because your sublime Islamic country is a total shithole!

152 Audrey R  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:28:41pm

interesting Terre Haute headline;
"Holocaust museum gutted by possible arson"

[Link: www.news-gazette.com...]

153 Ms. Andi, about tariq ramadan  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:37:31pm

Ms. Andi

The piece of scum known as tariq ramadan is very well known in France, where he has been stirring the pot for a long time. Among other things, he has circulated list of French Jews to watch. He's linked to al-qaeda (among other things). Well respected by "la gauche" in France (pardon me, I should spell it La Gauche).

Check out Merde in France, a bilingual blog run by a Frenchman. He keeps tabs on ramadan.
[Link: merdeinfrance.blogspot.com...]

It is not so much who and what he is that is a problem because he is a known quantity. It is rather that in spite of it, and in the context of the struggle in which our nation is involved, that piece of refuse in invited to TEACH in the United States (and he gets a visa: that really boggles my mind).

And this fact is what we should meditate upon, because it speaks volume about the degree or moral corruption, trahison, and turpitude in which our universities have sunk.

154 zulubaby  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:43:52pm

Audrey R (#152)

That's from last year. Charles posted about it at the time. I'm curious as to why you're linking to it now.

155 Jakester  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:45:15pm

In Charles's words:

It’s been a while since we checked in over at ClearGuidance (aka “Islam on crack”), the web site for American Muslim youth with an openly pro-jihad

If these mindless bugbrains want to go jihad, then buy tickets for the whole family, renounce your citizenship or alien status and leave us alone, you Islamic scumbags!

156 Sydney Carton  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:46:23pm

Alright. There's enough information on this thread to contact some of this guy's superiors or the authorities. I was thinking of drafting a letter to the President of Indiana University, and cc'ing the Board of Trustees, as well as some media people.

But as Model4 said, we might want to avoid tipping this guy off to something. Of course, if he's just posting jihadi stuff on the internet, and isn't an actual terrorist, then perhaps alerting his boss and the University is the best course of action. The risk of "tipping off" a non-terrorist, jihadi supporter, is minimal. But, for all we know he could be into major stuff, and the authorities could be watching him already. Emailing the University might tip the guy off.

What should we do? I was really, really going to write something. The link that Geepers posted in #127 is really informative. The guy is basically a pro-taliban, September 11th cheering asshole.

What should we do?

157 Ms. Andi  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:53:13pm

#153 ??

Yeah, Merde in France is on my daily stomping grounds. Thanks tough.

It is unbelievable he is getting a visa. An Iranian film director can't attend an awards show here, but jihadi professors can move here and teach in our universities. It doesn't make sense.

158 Model4  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:56:27pm

#156 Sydney Carton: You could save everything and mail the feds, mentioning that you'll give them 'til the end of the week to get back to you. If they don't, you'll assume it's fine to contact folks who might be more responsive (the media, his employers, etc).

But I was just tossing out a possibility earlier of course, not urging action or inaction in any particular direction. Either way, you'd be doing your best to try to help, so there isn't really a wrong answer.

159 Eye Opener  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:57:08pm

And when we recall that Islamic prophecies as well as Christian AND Jewish holy scripture all converge in prophecying the coming of The Holy One in the year 1260AH (1844CE), then we can see and recognize the depths of Islamo-fascist ignorance and self-deception as they heap praise on themselves for doing that which is abhorrent to That Which Created Us.

They show themselves ignorant of (or willfully disobedient to) the Holy One Who came, May 23, 1844.

"Hell hath been made to blaze with the fury of their impiety!"

160 Ms. Andi  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 7:57:38pm

ooopps I meant "thanks though"

161 Geepers  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 8:15:10pm

Sydney Carton (#156),

I've had my own personal experience with these dirtbags, a friend of mine is a partner in one of the companies that used to host ClearGuidance. See here and others posts of mine at that thread.

Expose them for what they are, to anyone and everyone who will listen.

162 stevieboy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 8:27:55pm

#156 Sydney Carton

I do not have the computer knowledge to package all the relevant information contained in this thread together then forward it to first the FBI, then with a very minimal delay to the AG, the FBI State Site, the University List, Fox News, Drudge and the local papers.

This is just what I would do. If no one does by tomorrow morning, I will get my brother in law to show me and I will.

If there are any differing opinions, please let me know.

163 stevieboy  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 8:46:54pm

I forgot to say thank you to all, have a good night and may we all have a great day tomorrow.

164 Sydney Carton[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 9:17:38pm
165 A. van Hilten  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 9:32:13pm

WTF:

Are they blind to the undeniable fact that over the past fifty years the U.S. has given Israel $94,966,300,000 to pursue its policy of exterminating the Palestinians.

And that's why Israel has made such a fine job of exterminating them, right? Oh, well, maybe they just figured out that 'wiping out' the entire Palestinian population on a one by one basis is a surefire way to keep those bucks coming. Moreover, since the Palestinian population keeps growing all the time, there's no chance the Israelis will ever run out of targets.

Not to mention the fact that Sharon can only have so many Pali babies for breakfast... </sarcasm>

166 D. Edgren (the Merciless Infidel)  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 9:34:05pm

So, there you have it...

Today, one asshat. Tomorrow, well, we'll see.

We have the power, if only we are willing to use it.


D. Edgren

167 A. van Hilten  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 9:46:29pm

Sydney Carton (#164):

If you think this is going to make a difference, you're wrong. Look at what happened to Internet Haganah. People at the FBI are either not concerned about this Islamist bullshit or they are already monitoring CL. In either case, no one's goning to move a finger.

And you'd better forget about the mainstream media as well. Unless you have some juicy body parts to offer them, they'll simply ignore you. (And by 'mainstream' I mean 'liberal'.)

Remember: Islam is a Religion of Peace™. Period.

168 Shira  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 10:03:56pm

Dratted time zones. I woke up this morning and found that y'all had done this good work while I slept. I missed it. Phooey.

It looks like you've got this wrapped up but maybe I can still do something?

169 Geepers  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 10:03:57pm

Sydney Carton (#164),

Excellent letter.

Kudos to you.

Check jonturner's post #141 for cc contacts plus:

Terra Haute newspaper Tribune-Star: community@Tribstar.Com

Indiana State University college newspaper: Indiana Statesman: sasedtpg@isugw.indstate.edu

WTWO Channel 2 in Terra Haute: news@wtwo.com

170 Geepers  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 10:09:20pm

Sydney Carton,

Ignore A. van Hilten protestation, one person can make a difference. (see my post #161) defeatists always think it's hopeless, and have been doing so for the last couple of millennium.

171 Rayra[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 10:40:49pm
172 Rayra[deleted]  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 10:49:06pm
173 norar  Sat, Feb 7, 2004 11:18:14pm
I will ask the 19 Martyrs, perhaps Mohammed Atta in particular, to tell his story time and time again, .... I will never tire of hearing about this tale of unparalleled valour. ?????

Yep, this version of events must be way more refreshing for Islamaniacs, as opposite to competing version - Mossad/CIA did it. It makes them proud of their "religion of peace" obviously.

174 its jake  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 1:49:33am

Half as many Americans died on nine-eleven as died storming the beaches of Normandy.

175 Engineer[deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 2:09:52am
176 Ben B  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 2:34:57am

Time to vaporize that little black cube in Mecca. Not out of hate; not with exultation: but with relief that something venomous had been removed from the world.

It'll come; within fifteen years, I'd say. Its obliteration would shake the faith/mind-shackles of Allah's minions.

177 scaramouche  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 3:04:06am

Geez. Can't they just join the Boy Scouts?

178 Baldy  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 3:35:26am

Islamic Rapper's Message of Terror (The Observer, by Antony Barnett)

Excerpt from 'Dirty Kuffar'
Peace to Hamas and the Hizbollah
OBL [bin-Laden] pulled me like a shiny star
Like the way we destroyed them two towers ha-ha
The minister Tony Blair, there my dirty Kuffar
The one Mr Bush, there my dirty Kuffar...
Throw them on the fire
OT: Gitmo Detainee: I had a Good Time (The Telegraph, By Rajeev Syal)

179 Nuke Mecca Now  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 4:35:50am

#89

Was it Cinncinnati or Cleveland that had the Muslim Hitler loving deli (from an old LGF post). Is it just because Ohio is next to Michigan, or is there something about proximity to Lake Erie that draws the a$$holes.

4 words for this place:

Gasoline
Beer Bottle
Rag
Lighter

/ Vigilante

180 Ben B  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 4:41:30am

#178 Baldy

This is disgusting. Maybe even the Guardian is beginning to wake up. This is in the same article:

The website on which the video was originally posted is run by the Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights in Saudi Arabia, a group run by al-Massari who came to Britain in 1994 after being imprisoned by the Saudi regime.

al-Massari was given a right of permanent residence in the UK. He repays his benefactors with hatred. How very Islamic.

I think they are showing their hand too soon: their epiphanies of hatred are bound, in the end, to work against them.

181 Baldy  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 4:47:08am

#180 Ben B

Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights in Saudi Arabia

This group could be labeled a "dissident group" or "reformist group" by the Western media. I have read in the past that the reformers in Saudi Arabia believe the Kingdom is not Islamic enough. Maybe this is one of the "reformist groups" they were referring to.

182 J.D.  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 5:45:55am

Oh dear! Look what the Saudis have done!

Algerian foreign ministry on Wednesday called in Saudi Arabia's ambassador to explain why the leader of an banned Algerian Muslim fundamentalist political party was invited to an official reception, a government statement said.

"After Abassi Madani attended the traditional reception given by King Fahd for the Eid al-Ahda (feast of Abraham's sacrifice), the ambassador of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia was convened to the foreign ministry where he was asked for an explanation," the statement said. .....

Algiers angered at Saudi invite to Muslim fundamentalist

183 Shelagh Delves-Broughton aka ShiksaGrrrl in T.O  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 6:04:12am

If it hasnt been posted here already, someone Kindly on the IsraelForum.com posted the URL to the FBI Tip Page

[Link: tips.fbi.gov...]

184 Frank IBC, Kata'ib Shuhada' Shalom  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 6:17:45am

Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights in Saudi Arabia

The person who was head of the Montgomery County Libertarian Party in th 90s, Ahmad ad-Din, AKA Dean Ahmad, has strong ties to this organization.

I let my membership in the LP lapse, several years ago.

185 billhedrick[deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 7:11:20am
186 Audrey R  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 9:32:52am

I re-posted that thread because I've been to Terre Haute, it's too small of a town for that stuff-the police would KNOW who the local Nazis are. And graffiti praising Timothy McVeigh? Oh, a red herring, maybe? Gosh, that would be like using a blatantly phony domain registrar's address with a (sick) jokey pseudonym, right?

187 K1, P2  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 11:43:54am

Just a comment on writing letters:

Short ones get read, long ones get tossed,
so resist the completely understandable urge to tell everything you know. Use the least amount of info possible to get the message across. If it doesn't get read b/c the recipient hasn't the time to plow through it, it doesn't do any good.

Don't lecture, don't editorialize. You can have the last word, later.

188 Baldy  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 1:09:27pm

#139 Ralph - I do not like Cor-Ten steel. I work for my family's industrial blasting & painting co., and we like steel we can paint.

189 A Jackson  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 3:28:52pm

#164 Sydney Carton - Great letter! Why don't you forward it to Bill O'Reilly (oreilly@foxnews.com). O'Reilly investigated Sami al-Arian's (U. of FL) terror connections when no one else would. Maybe he'll look into this. You might want ot attach the (disgusting) 'Nineteen Lions' essay as an example of the type of stuff on the web site.

190 John  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 3:49:58pm

#189 A Jackson

I sent that to O'Reilly, and forwarded a copy to all of the board at ISU as well as the president, and just for good measure, sent a "we're watching you" email to the professor himself.


Be great to see if their email accounts are going to be flooded come Monday morning.

191 Turbotaz  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 4:25:59pm

I tried to read this whole article...but just couldn't - kept skipping through & finally giving up in disgust. Scrolled back to top and found this in the header though..

Follow and do not innovate, for you have been given that which is sufficient and every innovation is misguidance -- ibn mas'ood

Isn't that just wonderful advice?

These people are so fucked up it makes my head hurt.

192 jonturner  Sun, Feb 8, 2004 8:39:34pm

Just a thought. Has anyone with high-speed access copied the Clearguidance web site, just in case it disappears first thing monday morning? It'd be good to have a copy, in case any official person (whether they be Indiana U trustees for FBI) needs a copy.

It'd be a shame for the evidence to disappear before the authorities could act.

193 BH  Mon, Feb 9, 2004 4:54:49am

I'm starting to suspect that the 72 virgins that these idiots receive are likely to be fanboys like this one. Though, by all accounts, that should suit Mo Atta just fine.

194 Rayra[deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2004 1:29:12pm
195 Rayra[deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2004 1:37:55pm
196 Engineer  Mon, Feb 9, 2004 2:13:40pm

The clearguidance site is down, but the DNS is still there and the server itself is working. I have not received a reply from DomainDiscover who is the domain registrar.

I have the linked article. If anybody wants it, just e-mal me. It is 64k.

197 sanity  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 1:49:13am

obvesously most of the posts here are from americans,judging from the amount of hatred coming out.totally understandable of course.hate promotes hate,violence promotes violence.but it is a bit like me saying all americans are as---les.which is not logical is it guys.im a firm believer of karma.what doesnt happen in this life will happen in the next.maybe you need to fine tune your culture?37 times since ww11 america has been involved in military action in another country. 37 warring factions pis-sed off.maybe you need to ask your politicions is it really neccesary? just a thought.but it is not my intention to be disrespectful,a life is a life no matter what your religion.and i too mourn for the dead,no matter where they are from. there is a american series called "seven days" in the opening credits they have a cesna plane crashing into the whitehouse.life can imitate art sometimes. and this series came out before sep 11. sometimes culture can have its drawbacks.and before you ask,in no uncertain terms do i condone the attacks.

198 Mozartus  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 5:29:56am

Might it be a good idea to write to Jeff Immelt of GE and

to let him know who he's employing?

199 Dom  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 5:29:58am

Sanity,

If you sit back while tyrants and jihadis kill indiscriminately in their limitless drive for more power and slander the one army in the world with the will and the power to make changes - and if America were in an offensive rush it would be done already, and America could resemble if it wanted what it is accused of being and good luck surviving it - I sure as hell hope you get your karma, pal. People die for your freedom to say whatever ugly thoughts come to mind.

200 Engineer  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 9:17:23am

#197 sanity

The events of 9/11 were an irritation and we are taking steps to see that they are not repeated. At the same time we have two robots on Mars and are now working on a manned mission. In other words, taking down two countries in two years hasn't strained us at all.

What you had better hope is that someone doesn't do something that makes us mad. If you don’t like our actions now, you really, really won’t like what we do if we get mad.

201 sanity  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 9:51:20am

people die for my freedom? who says im not free to start with? its a simple fact not everyone in the world agrees with bomb first ask questions later. what ever happened to the right of free speech? or does it only apply to americans?the point is people would not have to die for my so called rights if american politicians stopped giving financial support to people like osama bin laden.or is that too logical?you give him weapons and financial aid and when he goes against your so called policy you denounce him. look at the end result.instead of spreading hate,why dont you hold your politicians accountable?i dont expect or demand that you agree with my opinions just respect them.who knows people might do the same in return. its interesting to notice that you become defensive when you dont agree with my opinion,but you seem to demand the rest of the world respects your so called opinions.the best thing about freedom is the right to expression. as for my so called karma...well i try to live a life free from that dirty four letter word "hate"

202 Geepers  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 10:44:14am

Sanity (#201),

what ever happened to the right of free speech? or does it only apply to americans?

It depends on where you live. Try to publicly claim "Jesus died for your sins" in Riyadh and see what happens.

the point is people would not have to die for my so called rights if american politicians stopped giving financial support to people like osama bin laden.or is that too logical?you give him weapons and financial aid and when he goes against your so called policy you denounce him.

First you have to prove that America gave support to Osama, which should be pretty fun. And since we do have freedom of speech in America we can denounce bin Laden for any reason whatsoever. Or is that too logical?

instead of spreading hate,why don't you hold your politicians accountable?i

At every election we hold our politicians accountable. What makes you think we don't? Because the majority doesn't agree with you?

i dont expect or demand that you agree with my opinions just respect them.

We don't "respect" your opinions because they're based on unsubstantiated assertions. Simple as that.

as for my so called karma...well i try to live a life free from that dirty four letter word "hate"

our so called freedom from hate sure doesn't seem to extend to those who disagree with your 'enlightened' opinion.

I think I'd like to punch you right in the nose, just to see how much freedom from hate you actually have.

203 sanity  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 11:27:12am

yet again the threatsof violence! which just goes to reinforce my point how useless all this anger and violence is.what does it get?im sorry if i rely on american news reports about the links to osama and saddam maybe you should read your own newspapers? maybe you should ask your politicians why do they supply arms to saddam against the war with iraq? also ask them why they still gave financial aid to saddam after gassing the kurds? really its a bit like catching a child in a candy store stealing,and then saying would you like a lolly? its just tacit approval.a sense of morals would be nice.after all you are the worlds biggest super power.

204 sanity  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 11:50:21am

i dont pretend to know america or understand her.obvisously i am an outsider looking in.but i too live in a free country and when i see on the news, that america wants to have pre emptive strikes,is building mini nukes,and blantly ignores world opinions and non nuclear conventions then i have to say that you are in danger of reaping what you sow.why should i live in fear because of your governments actions?all i am trying to say in a non confrontation way is...learn and understand the word compromise.it doesnt mean you have to give up your way of life or freedom.that is your god given right.but understand this every thing your goverment does not only affects you,but it also affects me. and i dont like not being in control of my life

205 Geepers  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 12:16:52pm

sanity (#203),

yet again the threatsof violence!

What would you do if I punched you in the nose?

and blantly ignores world opinions

You know, the US government isn't running a popularity contest, our elected officials are swore to defend America, NOT seek approval from the 'world.'

If the world opinion was that England should be invaded, I assume you'd agree with that?

206 Turbotaz  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 1:24:38pm

Hmmm. World opinion. That logic, in general, has me stuck in suspense.. Any real examples of World Opinion ? And sanity (#201), it was not "Bomb 1st & ask questions later",.... it was more like "we got bombed 6 times & THEN got off our collective ass & said THIS IS ENOUGH"

207 sanity  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 4:31:58pm

all very valid points. and i totally understand your position.but the fact still remains.why are the politicians not held accountable for their past bad judgement ? these decisions just inflame these people. there was a lot of anti war sentiment and i personally feel like i was rolled over and fu---d up the ar-e.i guess its a sense of helplesness.with all this cra- going on i dont have a say in this issue..because im not american.but it still affects MY life and my childrens.

208 sanity  Tue, Feb 10, 2004 5:20:10pm

i just found an interesting web site go to [Link: www.guardien.co.uk...] and look for the article "im anti american,tired of american lies" ignore the title of the article and have a history lesson. now ask yourself "is this the reason why people are pissed"

209 J.D.  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 3:45:43am

sanity

You'll have to do better than a halfway link to al-Guardian. Few, if any, will go out of their way to find the article you refer to. When it comes to 'anti-Americanism', we're already well-informed. You obviously have no idea.

It's possible that you are in need of a history lesson, particularly if you arrive at your views after reading al-Guardian and listening to the BBC. Just a thought.

Here are some articles to help get you up to speed.

The Falseness of Anti-Americanism by Fouad Ajami

David Frum Interprets America To Britain

Good luck to you.

210 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 6:33:09am

well thanks for the links ,and yes i did read them very informative.please dont get me wrong i am not anti american just anti american policy when it comes to some things.i dont think it is morally right to supply both side in a war with weapons,or to drop 2000 tonnes of depleted uranium on a country that lasts for 4.5 billion years. and that is the problem.reverse the situation and ask yourself,how would i feel if someone did that to my country and my people? its all just a vicious cycle.

211 J.D.  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 7:08:22am

sanity

In what free country do you live?

212 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 7:35:06am

new zealand.

213 Geepers  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 9:46:07am

sanity,

or to drop 2000 tonnes of depleted uranium on a country that lasts for 4.5 billion years.

No offense, but you have NO idea what you're talking about. Do a little bit of research before you so boldly spout off your ignorance, it will help you look like less of a fool.

Do you know why they call it depleted uranium.

Here's a question for you to research: what produces more radiation (A) depleted uranium or (B) granite?

214 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 4:29:02pm

effects of depleted uranium...i will keep it simple for you.affects on AMERICAN solders in the first gulf war.
american studies conclude that damage to chromosomes in the white blood cells were 5.5 times higher in veterans than the rest of the population.
kenny duncan (american vet)has had three children since the first gulf war.his 8 year old hads deformed ears and toes,his two other children have deformed toes,bowel and bladder problems and one is partially deaf also. (pretty safe shit isnt it?) us army guide lines say surgeons are to be "agressive" in removing depleted uranium even at the expense of other tissue .

medical effects in iraq
severly deformed infants,childhood cancer,it is also toxic and carcinogetic and causes genetic damage
at no time did i mention radation.just type in effects of depleted uranium and check all the web pages that come up.i suppose dumping it on other countrys is cheaper than disposing it yourselfs.

by the way your veterans call victims of depleted uranium "crispy critters. now whos ignorant?

215 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 4:51:58pm

heres a good link for you..it details the cover up of depleted uranium and the effects on gulf war vets
[Link: nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz...]
read it. or are the facts from your own goverment sources lies?

216 Geepers  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 5:24:49pm

sanity,

You need to learn to distinguish toxicology studies from rumors.

The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services stated in its Toxicological Profile for Uranium, "[n]o human cancer of any type has ever been seen as a result of exposure to natural or depleted uranium." A 1999 RAND study concluded, "there are no peer-reviewed published reports of detectable increases of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to inhaled or ingested natural uranium at levels far exceeding those likely in the Gulf."

Sorry, there is just no medical evidence associating DU with increased risks of cancers or birth deformities.

Those DU-exposed friendly fire individuals with elevated levels of urinary uranium nine years after the Gulf War have not developed kidney abnormalities, leukemia, bone or lung cancer, or any classical uranium-related adverse outcome.
Depleted uranium metal fragments struck a number of soldiers, and some of these still retain embedded depleted uranium fragments.

So no, You don't need to act any more aggressively to remove DU than lead.

DEPLETED URANIUM

And as for Children in Iraq suffering from birth defects due to exposure to DU after the Gulf war. Well, just from a practical level: first off we pushed the Iraqis out of Kuwait, so it's highly unlikely that it could be the source for birth defects in Iraq, and secondly tank battles were fought far from population centers making exposure even more unlikely.

And do you know why veterans call victims of depleted uranium "crispy critters"?

217 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 5:33:54pm

the answer to your question is..a/ depleted uranium is still radioactive,depleted is a deliberate misconception put out by the government. it is also supplied nearly free of charge to weapon makers.of which the government has 735,000 metric tonnes at various sites around the YOUR country.

youre not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you cant face reality.wrong is wrong,no matter who says it

_ malcolm x

218 Geepers  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 5:44:55pm

sanity,

uranium is still radioactive,depleted is a deliberate misconception put out by the government.

Ofergodsake, anyone with a geiger counter can verify the radioactivity of depleted uranium.

Or does the government have a supersecret conspiracy to control geiger counter calibrations?

219 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 6:53:24pm

there are two types of D/U (clean) and D/U(dirty) which is a low level alpha radiation emitter and contains plutonium.

(SAIC REPORT JULY 1990)
A DEFENCE CONTRACTOR COMMISIONED BY THE PENTAGON TO STUDY DEPLETED URANIUM
found that D/U was linked to cancer when exposuse is internal(on impact d/u vapourises into particles small enough to fit inside a red blood cell.)d/u exposure to solders on the battle field could be significant with potental radiological and toxicological effects. short term effects of large doses can result in death.saic also says in its report that widespread knowledge can lead to public outrage.
US ARMY TRAINING MANUAL 1998
requires anyone coming within 25 metres of d/u contamination wear respitory and skin protection.it also cautions contamination of food and water is unsafe for consumption.
NATO 1999
sends its commanders the following warning. inhalation of insoluable d/u dust particles has been associated with long term health effects including cancer and birth defects.
UN RESEARCHERS 2000
examined 11 sites bombed in kosovo with d/u and found 8 sites with radioactive contamination.

DOUG ROKKE
pentagons most senior d/u expert during the first gulf war undertook tests in the mid 90s and they showed that d/u vapourised on impact and was extremly dangerous when inhaled and was also ordered to do tests on the troops and to decontaminate vechiles bombed with d/u sending some back to the states and burying the rest deep in the desert.
your government knows how dangerous it is

220 J.D.  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 6:58:33pm

Geepers #218

does the government have a supersecret conspiracy to control geiger counter calibrations?

Doesn't the Dept. of Weights and Measures oversee that?/

sanity - New Zealand! What do you do there? What are your news sources, aside from the Guardian?

221 Geepers  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 7:37:10pm

J.D. (#220),

Shhhhh.

222 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 9:19:17pm

anywhere on the internet.you would be quite supprised what you can find.i tend to only rely on sources from american people.they tend to be a bit more believable especially from ex government experts..most of the information comes from people getting it from the offical information act or whatever you guys call it.which by the way ever since bush got into power is becoming harder to get. especially when it comes to d/u. as for what i do im a single parent with a mentally retarded 5 year old:>
too much time on my hands i suppose.besides i doubt the average american walks around with a geiger counter. 23000 references to d/u on the internet all pretty much saying the same thing.i suppose with us being a nuclear free country we tend to talk about these things a bit more.

223 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 10:29:20pm

a very good source is [Link: scoop.co.nz...] its an article by an expert on d/u with excellant reference sources inside the us government.shit he WROTE the policy on handling d/u even hes warning against it.the point is even your vets are dying from it.take a look and be informed. he was responsible for making the training videos on how to clean it up and advising government policy.even oppenheimer the father of the atomic age warned about using depleted uranium in 1943.

224 sanity  Wed, Feb 11, 2004 10:51:29pm

the title of the article is "do not use depleted uranium munitions again" but anyway thanks for all the links etc i now go away better informed and not so ignorant.i appologise if i have caused any offence as that was definitly not my attention. i look forward to checking back and getting your guys oppinions on things :> i understand your anger about sept 11 2 new zealanders died there also.

225 J.D.  Thu, Feb 12, 2004 11:39:45am

sanity

By all means do check back. Being a single parent with a mentally retarded 5-year-old must be very challenging. Good luck to you.

226 jonturner[deleted]  Sat, Feb 14, 2004 11:18:33am
227 piglet  Sat, Feb 14, 2004 11:33:04am

HOw about the Royal Society's opinion on DU?

Note that only our forces fire DU. That if you are inside a tank hit by a DU shell, the effect of DU dust is the least of your worries. For our forces, the ability to kill an enemy tank or apc with a single shot, so it cannot fire back, increases their safety and survivability far above that danger that "might be added by DU."

As for the enemy, tough. As for civilians, death by bad water, death squads, botched FGM, honor killings etc. far exceed even the worst case DU estimates.

[Link: www.nrpb.org...]

On this basis the following conclusions were reached.

For most soldiers, intakes of DU were likely (central estimate) to be small (less than 1 milligram), and so were effective doses (less than 1 millisievert – the average annual effective dose from natural background radiation is about 2 millisieverts).
The risks of radiation-induced cancer are also likely to be small (less than 1 in 10,000) and would not be detectable amongst the cancers that would occur in such a group without exposure.
High exposures to DU should only apply to a small fraction of soldiers, such as survivors in vehicles struck by DU weapons. For them the central estimates give a lung cancer risk of about 1 in 1000. However, under worst-case conditions, the estimated risk of radiation-induced lung cancer up to about 1 in 15 could not be excluded, even though it results from inhaling a few grams of DU dust. This risk is similar to the rate in the general population, and so would approximately double the lung cancer risk.

In all exposure scenarios considered, the risks of death from leukaemia and other cancers are much smaller than (

228 piglet  Sat, Feb 14, 2004 11:45:39am

A .pdf document of another paper that uses detailed citations of research to sya that the danger of DU has been overstated.


[Link: www.puaf.umd.edu...]

229 sanity  Sat, Feb 14, 2004 4:40:03pm

in my oppinion d/u is the same as wmd.but i get the clear impression that you dont really care if it is innocent people hurt.i has been clearly documented that america has used d/u on cities which is against the geneva convection,hence a war crime.ignorance is bliss.

230 sanity  Sat, Feb 14, 2004 5:20:43pm

please use sources that are reliable. the royal society is "incensed" the american department of defence is using their name to say d/u is safe. in direct contradiction to their studies. american the culture of mis-information.for every one report you try to throw at me i can throw 10 more reliable ones back.you will find on the net a clear contradiction in government studies and offical policy. please try to be more informed.its not hard.


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