This is absolutley ghastly. If someone did that to my child, I'd rip him apart.
Awful.

ROP my ass

I would love to see this story on a major American news program. Of course, I also would love to win the lottery.

Hopefully the "Cleric" will be found dickless and twisting in the wind froma twisted branch with the bullet riddled corpses of anyone dumb enough to try and protect him piled at his feet.

Hopefully the kid's family will arrange it.

Horrific story.

It is the first such case to be brought against a Muslim cleric and threatens to expose a scandal of sex abuse within Pakistan's secretive Islamic schools.

All the dirty secrets of Islam need to be exposed, everywhere.

Poor kid. What a horrid thing to have happen.

Sulfuric Acid is also the weapon of choice for dowry disputes as well as for honour killings in Pakistan.

I keep forgetting that Pakistan is our friend

The issue of rape of boys in the Arab and Islamic world needs to be brought in the open. Also the geniatal mutilation of girls.

This is the saddest thing I've read today. He is a gutsy kid, to want to press charges. It's difficult enough here, in a civilized country, for boys (or girls) to find the inner strength to press charges in rape cases.

#3 Emery Calame

Hopefully the "Cleric" will be found dickless and twisting in the wind froma twisted branch with the bullet riddled corpses of anyone dumb enough to try and protect him piled at his feet.

Expect the kid to be found dickless and twisting in the wind from a twisted branch with the bullet riddled corpses of anyone dumb enough to try and help him avoid the cleric.

Well, looks like these guys could teach the Catholics a thing or two!

Muslim paedophille liberation.

By direct sensory observation, in 1977-8, while on board a US Navy frigate, I can tell you that public adult male homosexual behavior was nothing short of rampant, on the quaysides and piers, by the faithful in SA. I remember it as absolutely appalling, and did little to raise my already low opinion of this "society". Explains why I am not surprised by this horrific report.

Sounds about right. Acid in the face has often been the solution to those who don't submit sexually in Pakistan. Women get this a lot.

In fact, Qari Amin, the person who did this, (same name, anyways. Can someone confirm?) has done it before to a girl who resisted being raped. He wasn't punished for that. (Apparently, his father had been raping the girl's mother)

[Link: www.jang.com.pk...]

It should be noted that Qari was "assisted by friends" in the acid attack on the boy. They broke into his house, bolted the door, and then flung the acid.

[Link: www.gupistan.com...]

Well maybe now the LLL will care about the Muslim threat once they hear about these 'hate crimes'. Naahhh...

Andyzero (#12)

Measures urged to prevent excesses against women

Excesses against women? That's a very diplomatic way of putting it. Bastards.

Well, looks like these guys could teach the Catholics a thing or two!

I was wondering when someone would start the catholic-bashing.

I admire the boy's guts, which he apparently got from his father. A very brave family altogether.

What a horrible, sad story. The only good thing that can be said is that it is being publicized.

Whenever you get a society where anyone has absolute power and there is strong repression of sex and absolute separation of men from women, and hatred of gays and lesbians, you get pedophilic predators who take advantage of the situation to insert themselves into the highest ranks of religion and hide what they really are behind a cloak of religiosity and then use their power and privilege to get away with rape and even murder. That goes for Jews, Christians or any other religious group.

Unfortunately, you add in the absolute power of the Islamic clergy, the corruption of the governments in Islamic countries, and the absolute paranoia and virulent antiwoman and anti-homosexual attitudes of Islam with the propensity to violence and it all combines the very worst of all traits that humanity is capable of.

#6 Tony Abu Tuz

The issue of rape of boys in the Arab and Islamic world needs to be brought in the open. Also the geniatal mutilation of girls.

It certainly does.

Some time ago, we had a lot of comments here about this story in which Rofayda Qaoud - raped by her brothers and impregnated - refused to commit suicide, her mother ... restored her family's "honor" through murder. After reading this story, I think that what may of happened is that the girl was given to her brothers for their use, they just went too far and took her virginity and got her pregnant.

I don't know if this is true and if it is, how common. But it would seem to fit with the way they treat women.

Daaamn. At least witht he Catholics, they bribed the families of the victims & moved the priest to a different parish.

OT?: Boy Raped, Beheaded in Medina, Saudi Arabia

Enforced celibacy is the major underlying problem. For Catholics, it's the absurd celibate priesthood. For Muslims, its polygamy. If every male Muslim takes the full quota of four wives, three other men, on average, are forced into celibacy.

#17 Judith

Quit reading my mind! :-)

Actually, you put this a lot better than I could ever have...

I was wondering when someone would start the catholic-bashing.

Catholic bashing is inappropriate and should stop. The Catholics are just the latest religous group to get caught and the latest forced into an unwilling housecleaning.

Pedophilic predators are notoriously manipulative and any abuse any system that will allow them to get away with it. Catholicism is based on repentence and faith and trust. It gives religous authority a high level of power of an individual, places a virtuous light on a man who isolates himself from women, instead of being highly suspicious of him, and makes it impossible to talk openly about homosexuality between consenting adults so that pedophiles can silence their victims and hide their abuse behind the shame and fear of homosexual sex between consenting adults, and it encourages forgiveness and reconciliation. It is has every single ingredient any predatory pedophile needs to operate with virtual impunity. Even if a predatory pedophile gets caught, it is ridiculously easy for them to manipulate the situation to cover their misdeeds.

You name any religion with this combination and I guarantee you'll find predatory pedophiles flocking to join the clergy. Catholicism is just the latest 'best' example of what these predators do to get victims.

Enforced celibacy is the major underlying problem.

This is another myth predators use to hide and justify their actions. It IS much easier to spot pedophilic predators when the majority of normal men in society can choose to marry. However, many pedophilic predators will choose to marry and to continue the predation under the guise of being married and parents. The poor spouse is just one more stunned victim of the manipulation when the predator is caught.

"The poor spouse is just one more stunned victim of the manipulation when the predator is caught. "

Good example, out on DVD: Capturing the Friedmans

Here's another good example, if you can stomach reading it, of a predatory pedophile at work.

Now imagine this guy in a Muslim society at a Madrassa. How long would it be before he would decide that running a Madrassa was the perfect setup.

These monsters also collaborate with each other.

Well put, Judith. This heinous crime has everything to do with the evil abuse of power by the representative of a monolithic and "unquestionable" religion and the psychological damage that a repressive, backward and celibate society can inflict on someone. It breeds monsters like this cleric.

Baldy (#20)

With regards to kids being snatched, raped and murdered, we have enough of our own problems to worry about.

and, you're right, the celibacy is not solely to blame. It often provides "cover" for the predator, just as marriage or any other situation can.

Even as Abid was receiving treatment, the religious authorities pressed the hospital to discharge him. Mr Tanoli managed to get him admitted to a different hospital, where he is being treated free, although the family cannot afford an operation to save his sight.

As I said on Rantburg, it would be great if some Christian organization paid for that operation to save his sight. It would help the boy and his brave family immensely, and would certainly be the Christian thing to do, with the added benefit of getting the clerics' knickers in a double twist. Better yet, maybe said group could arrange for the treatment to be here in the States, with his whole family along. (And arrange for massive media coverage, but that's probably out of the question.)

I hope our "good friend" Musharrif has arranged a 24-hour guard on the boy and his family.

And I hope the clerics and their good friends all rot in hell. Soon.

Judith-- I generally agree with what you have written. But I know of no evidence that bringing homosexuality into public favor decreases pederasty. Do you?

Lest anyone forget, there is no centralized liturgical or legal structure to Islam (unlike the Catholic church with its Vatican-Pope-Cardinals-dogma-etc. structure, or the US legal system with its Supreme Court-Constitution-Appellate Courts- etc. structure). Because of this, any Islamic cleric/imam/mufti/etc. can issue a religious ruling (fatwa) or engage in any behavior without the slightest possibility that it will be overturned or condemned by his superiors. Because, in effect, he has no superiors. In fact, the only way to punish an Islamic cleric who violates the law like this is in civil court. But since most Islamic clerics refuse to acknowledge the validity of civil courts...well, in their minds they're free to do absolutely whatever they want. In the Catholic church, at least, an offending priest can be (and even sometimes is) punished for misbehavior. Not true in the Islamic world. Each cleric is a sovereign petty (or not so petty) tyrant. Imagine, my friends, the horror, the absolute living hell, of living in a country ruled entirely according to shari'a Islamic law, with no secular legal system. Crimes like this would be commonplace, without any way to stop them or seek redress against the wrongdoer. Except perhaps personal vengence, carried out Corsican-style.
This is the vision that mainstream Muslim activists have for planet earth -- one world under Islam.
Think about it.

This muslim priest is a creepy bugger following in the footsteps of his master Mohamed the sexually deviant desert bandit.

I am tempted to go through the song and dance to get another
account at Clear Guidance and post this article there.

Didn't Mohammed talk about pearly boys? I have heard of the Saudis' boys in their Lebanese palaces, etc. It's always some old arab guy after a boy.

Does anyone remember the interview of John Walker Lindh's Pakistani friend? That wasn't pedophilia, but it exposes the hypocrisy that is all over those countries.

But I know of no evidence that bringing homosexuality into public favor decreases pederasty. Do you?

No, I know of no solid evidence.

I do know that pedophiles who attack boys count on fear and shame of homosexuality to encourage victims of crime to hide what has been done to them. Horror of adult homosexual contact encourages parents to be more willing to hide the fact that their male child has been abused by an adult male or their female child has been abused by an adult female. Therefore predatory pedophiles so take advanatge of homophobia. However I agree that there is no evidence that I am aware of that in societies where homosexuality between consenting adults is not a source of shame, there is less pedophilia. I suspect the predators would simply find something else to hide behind.

Most predatory pedophiles abuse both males and females. It is children that they prey on.

Even as Abid was receiving treatment, the religious authorities pressed the hospital to discharge him.

Note, the madrassa is trying to intimidate the family...

It looks to me like homosexuality (not pedophilia though) is only forbidden to laymen [no pun intended]. A religious teacher (whatever that's called), is not only allowed to do anything, but it's a shooting offense to try and stop him.

It looks like the social system is about power and religion is only a cover!

I can't help noticing that the reactions were violence and intimidation. It's starting to look to me like that's a constant when dealing with Islam.

Situation: Teacher sexually assaults and mutilates a boy.
School's response: try to punish the parents.

Amazing!

I am not generally in favor of the death penalty, however, I do think of it as a way to put a dangerous untreatable rabid animal to death when it is applied to predatory pedophiles.

One point that stuns me again and again whenever I read about these predators is how often alert parents thwart them without even realising they have done so.

Anyway the topic is making feel ill so I'm going to stop posting now.

The Sultan always had a few small boys around as his personal slaves. Doesn't the Koran also mention small boys as sex slaves in paradise?

Judith that article is horrific.

#35 harry

I once read that it's not 72 eternally virginal horis for the Shahids, it's 100 of them, it's just that only 72 of them are female.

Can anyone back this up with a translation?

#2 Engineer:

I would love to see this story on a major American news program. Of course, I also would love to win the lottery.

I'd love it if the story were doctored to replace "Muslim cleric" with "Christian missionary," then forwarded to one of our mainstream newsrooms. At least then it would be run on the first couple of pages, with a correction on page 38 a few days later.

Model4

I would laugh, but you are right, that is the only way it would run.

F**king LLL press

nothing like hearing (again) about some pious sack of garbage using his (or her) position to take advantage of someone...the fact that this sack of garbage masquerades as a religious leader and teacher just goes to show that the more pious-looking they are, the more you better (literally) guard your backside...and the mullahs will ignore this one, too (as did the prelates, the seminarians, and the newpapers, until they could not ignore it any more). but don't worry: Reuters and the BBC will try to find some way to blame it on the Israelis.

before killing the pisslamic cleric and his associates by repeated donkey come guzzling they should be sentenced to a 24/7 listening marathon to the "white stripes"

Judith, your posts were really good.

As for this story, damn, that kid has courage. Makes you wonder how many more there are like him. Rumsfeld was right to wonder how we can go about undermining the madrassas.

EEK!
I just reread the post I made and realized that the quote didn't say that the school was trying to keep the boy from being treated the religious authorities were trying to keep the boy from being treated!

All this talk about this as if it was the same as some catholic priest in the US molesting a boy is missing the point. The Pakistani religious authorities are trying to punish the family for talking!

If the authorities consider it only right that they make anyone's kid into a sex toy and they punish any family that talks, this is much worse than anything that has ever happened in the west.

We're missing the point if we don't notice that Pakistani "religious authorities" treat laymen as slaves!

#18 Engineer

I was referring to boys being raped, not rape by boys (although that could be a problem too).

I heard from several emergency room doctors stationed in Saudi that they frequently saw boys coming in with severe anal trauma and other signs of rape. Unfortunately, they couldn't report the rapes becuase they were foreigners and would lose their jobs if they did.

#11 Hassen bin Sober

I have heard from several Saudi men that homosexual acts between boys is very common in Saudi schools.

Tim Blair had a thread on his blog just a few days ago on pedophiles flocking to Bali:

MISSION NOT ACCOMPLISHED

The Bali bombing was intended to rescue locals from Western depravity, according to murderer Amrozi:

You can see from their attitude . . . they come here, people such as Americans, the Jews and their allies. They want to colonise, not just to play. They want to control Muslim people. They make us weak and they take our people to bars.

Since the bombing, Balinese who previously earned their living in the tourism industry have been forced into other work, as The Bulletin's Eric Ellis reports:

It's in Bali's north that western paedophiles have long preyed on villages, traditionally the source of so many of Bali's tourism workers but now, since the bombs devastated the island's economy, thrown into overnight penury.

"The bomb made the paedophile problem worse," she explains. "It was a simple matter of economics; people got thrown out of work, they needed the money, and there were accommodating European men to help them."

The children of Bali and their Euroscum exploiters offer you their thanks, Amrozi.

UPDATE. As vaara points out in comments, Australian molesters are also profiting due to Amrozi’s bomb attack. Child-wreckers of the globe unite to celebrate!

(For the links, go into the February 2004 archives and scroll down)

This makes me literally sick to my stomach.

The U.S. or Israel should offer to fly the kid (and his family) out to have the operation he needs on his eyes as a humanitarian gesture; how is Pakistan going to say no to that without looking heartless? At least then they'd be safe and out of the clutches of those who wish to silence the boy for good.

I don't know how the kid is going to prove his case, though. He didn't tell anyone at the time. The cleric and his henchmen will deny it. And the boy's fellow students will no doubt be terrorized into keeping their mouths shut.

There are so very few "students" at these madrassas who have the guts to speak up about what's going on. Just think of the situation of these boys - they're from poor families, they and their families have no social status, they're going to "school" for free, so they are under an obligation to the imams. Under these circumstances, how can they possibly resist those whom they are conditioned to believe are right no matter what? Who is going to protect them?

They are taught that might makes right, and when they get old enough, they take out all of the shame and humiliation they suffered on women and daughters.

#50 Amy

The U.S. or Israel should offer to fly the kid (and his family) out to have the operation he needs on his eyes as a humanitarian gesture

That's a good idea.

*sigh*

Judith is getting on my nerves.

Add to the "scroll quickly through interminable long sermons" list, I guess.

#30 Barbara Skolaut

it would be great if some Christian organization paid for that operation to save his sight. It would help the boy and his brave family immensely, and would certainly be the Christian thing to do,

It is up to christians to solve this problem? Thanks for the help: jews, hindus, giaists, vegetarians, atheists, buddahists, et al!

A few months ago, CBC radio had a program discussing this sort of behaviour by clerics in Afghanistan (the sexual deviancy with boys - fortunately not the mutilation part). Apparently this type of behaviour is not uncommon. What a strange perverted culture.

Re: #49 Connecticut Yankee

From the source you quoted:

"... They want to control Muslim people. They make us weak and they take our people to bars. "

I haven't seen your source for this quote but Bali is primarily Hindu, not Muslim. It makes me wonder about the accuracy of the remainder of the article.

#28 zulubaby - I know that, but since we are decadent infidels, it should be expected here.
/Jihadi mode off

Rape & murder are universal problems, I find many crime stories in my readings of Arab newspapers. I ignore most of them since I know it's not a "Muslim problem", it's a human one. For some reason, stories like this sadden me so (some of my siblings were molested; in one case, I walked in while it was going on- it has haunted me since my childhood).

The ultimate hypocrisy -

BEING GAY IN PALESTINE East Bay Voice

Tayseer, as we'll call him, a 21-year-old Gazan whose constant smile tries to conceal watchfulness, learned early on that to be gay in Palestine is to be a criminal. Three years ago his older brother caught him in bed
with a boyfriend. He was beaten by his family, then warned by his father that he'd strangle Tayseer if it ever happened again.

It happened again a few months later. Word gets around a refugee camp, and a young man he didn't know invited Tayseer into an orange grove.
The next day he received a police summons. At the station Tayseer was told that his sex partner was in fact a police agent whose job is to ferret out homosexuals. If Tayseer wanted to avoid prison, he too would have to
become an undercover sex agent, luring gays into orchards and turning them over to the police.

Tayseer refused to implicate others. He was arrested and hung by his arms from the ceiling. A high-ranking officer he didn't know arranged for his release and then demanded sex as payback. Tayseer fled Gaza to Tulkarem on the West Bank, but there too he was eventually arrested. He was forced to stand in sewage water up to his neck, his head covered by a sack filled
with feces, and then he was thrown into a dark cell infested with insects and other creatures he could feel but not see. ("You slap one part of your body, and then you have to slap another," he recounts). During one
interrogation, police stripped him and forced him to sit on a Coke bottle. Through the entire ordeal he was taunted by interrogators, jailers, and fellow prisoners for being a homosexual.

When he was released a few months later, Tayseer crossed into Israel. He now lives illegally in an Arab Israeli village and works in a restaurant. His dream is to move to Tel Aviv. "No one there cares if you're gay," he says. These days, though, he knows that an illegal Gazan in Tel Aviv risks being deported and that he's safest staying where he is.

Read the rest of this article at:
[Link: www.eastbayvoice.org...]
___

#40 Joshua Scholar:

I once read that it's not 72 eternally virginal horis for the Shahids, it's 100 of them, it's just that only 72 of them are female.

it is not difficult to understand that a virile man shall live and die for Islam, which promises the choicest sex-after-death in the form of paradise, dwelt in by the most beautiful damsels and the prettiest boys.

Sex after death. Sick fucks.

#55 John B

That particular part of Tim's article was a direct quote from a Muslim terrorist (Amrazi), trying to justify targeting Bali. It was in itals. in Tim's blog, but the formatting didn't come through.

#55 Jim B

This is the original article:

Bali bomb suspect unrepentant

Here is the most priceless quote of all:

"Terrorism is ordered by Allah - in the Koran it means make our enemies frightened."

Memorize it.

#54,

Was this a story about the notoriously poofty Pashtun tribesmen of Afghanistan, perchance?

I'll put up $1500 to fly this poor boy out--Its not a lot, but its a start.

Thanks Abu Radley. Kind comments appreciated.

As for you, Heretic, The nice thing about this group, is you are free to stop reading anything anytime you want. Until Charles tells me I am indulging in overlong sermons and asks me to stop, I'll make my posts as long as I please and you can just keep right on scrolling by them. BTW when was the last time you sent Charles some money to keep this great website of his going?

3 cheers for Judith-- I don't perfectly agree- but she has provided highly valuable thoughts.

Fat.elvis, you say

Well maybe now the LLL will care about the Muslim threat once they hear about these 'hate crimes'. Naahhh...

no. LLLers who see this thread will say LGF is a 'muslim hate site'

I now believe Mohammed was the anti-christ. And I'm not even religious.

Judith -

You go, girl!! I read your stuff and enjoy it.

I am -well- blushing. Honestly, thank you. I do appreciate it and levi from queens, of course you are free to disagree with me anytime. Often when people disagree with me, I end up thinking about things and come out with clearer thought for here, especially here. Charles' website has done wonders for clearing LLL cobwebs from the old brain, often from people who put me in my place when I need it.

Someone figure out why Catholics don't throw acid.

I'm not Catholic, but I can tell that Catholic kiddie rapers are not the same as the men in this article.

I also don't see Catholic priests getting together in groups of four to do the deed.

Or trying to prevent treatment for permanent injury.

This story is so vomitously disgusting. The men responsible should be slowly fed to man-eating fireants in quantities that will keep them alive for decades . . . but Hell will work.

can someone pleeese tell me what LLL is? PLEASE!

LLL--liberal loony leftist or in some other order (preferably not a catholic order)

To: its jake--the thought which came to my mind was boiling in oil--but slowly. But out of the outrage-- I really would be willing to help this poor boy.

OT, or maybe not:

Dirty kufr, jihadi can rap better than Snoop Dogg

#54 JohnB

A few months ago, CBC radio had a program discussing this sort of behaviour by clerics in Afghanistan (the sexual deviancy with boys - fortunately not the mutilation part). Apparently this type of behaviour is not uncommon. What a strange perverted culture.

I travelled in Pakistan (in the far north, where the population is mainly moderate Ismaili Muslim) about 10 years ago on the so-called Karakoram Highway between China and Pakistan. As soon as you cross the border into Pakistan, you notice two very strange things. First, absolutely no women, anywhere walking around outside. Not even with husbands, brothers or fathers. No one. The second thing you notice is the extreme closeness of the men. You can't go more than a few minutes without seeing another pair of men holding hands, walking with their arms around each other or even caressing each other's legs. Now I'm no homophobe - and I realize that other cultures permit more public affection between men than Americans do - but this just seemed distinctly odd. Even my cheek-kissing European travelling companions were weirded out by the whole thing. It was like the whole town was a big gay bar.

I heard from a Pakistani-American who was travelling there as well that it is not uncommon for male friendships there to have a sexual dimension to them. You have to remember that these men have no, repeat NO contact with women other than family. It struck us that this society was like prison or the Navy in that the enforced separation from women caused homosexual behavior to emerge (no offense to any Navy types here, but let's just remember what Chuchill said were the foundations of British naval power: rum, sodomy and the lash).

The sexual expression that is competely repressed is also inflamed by Western TV shows like Baywatch which are watched by many. This leads to highly distorted views of Western women as one might imagine.

Anyway, only the most culturally tolerant could visit such a place and NOT think that this is indeed a strange and perverted culture. That's certainly what I was thinking as some idiot made a lewd gesture at my wife while his friend asked me whether I could help him get a US visa. A truly pathetic, disgusting and revolting culture.

"Dirty Kufr" video:

Windows Media Player

Hi-Res

Low-Res

Real Player

Broadband

Dialup

Don't forget the allegations against this guy, a leader in another pagan religion.

Anybody think to e-mail a link to this story to Human Rights Watch, or the International Committee of the Red Cross, or some other equally virtuous organization?

Yeah, you're right --- waste of electrons. (The inclusion of the word "virtuous" should've given away that it was a trick question)

It seems to me that there is more concern expressed about this because it happened with a male. I don't think they attackers would have been in jail if it had been a woman.

My grandad fought in North Africa in WW2. He said that the Arabs had a saying: "Men for love, women for duty, and boys for pleasure"

Alouette (#73)

Charles posted about that video last week but what's interesting from the article you linked to is this ...

The video has recently been posted on the British website run by the Islamic extremist Mohammed al-Massari, the UK-based Saudi Arabian dissident who has lived in Britain since 1994. Al-Massari claims that the video has been selling in large quantities at mosques to the younger generation and is in heavy demand overseas.

Saudi Arabia again. What is it that they do there that inspires such insane violence?

Also ...

The website on which the video was originally posted is run by the Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights in Saudi Arabia, a group run by al-Massari who came to Britain in 1994 after being imprisoned by the Saudi regime.

This is the website: The Committee for the Defence of Legitimate Rights

#80 zulubaby

I've seen enough jihadi websites for the day..

But I can assume that "legitimate" mean killing Jews as always right?

Joshua Scholar (#81)

To be honest, I glanced at the website for about a minute and closed the window. I'll check it again tomorrow. I'm out of energy for the filth that is associated with Islam.

The usual hypocrisy (this, from the article, not the website):

Al-Massari did not see a problem in using Western music and MTV-like images to sell a message of jihad. He said that it was an effective way of attracting young Muslims who had been put off by other Islamic sects such as the Taliban, which banned music and dancing.

Why doesn't he go back to Saudi Arabia? Oh no.

In November 2002, al-Massari circulated a 4,000-word message allegedly from Osama bin Laden. In 2001, al-Massari was granted permanent residence in Britain, five years after Michael Howard, then Conservative Home Secretary, tried to deport him.

Tried to deport him? They should have tried harder.

Excerpt from 'Dirty Kuffar'
Peace to Hamas and the Hizbollah
OBL [bin-Laden] pulled me like a shiny star
Like the way we destroyed them two towers ha-ha
The minister Tony Blair, there my dirty Kuffar
The one Mr Bush, there my dirty Kuffar...
Throw them on the fire

In the meantime, he's doing alright in Tony Blair's country, eh? Scumbag. I can't stand it.

Joshua Scholar (#81)

But I can assume that "legitimate" mean killing Jews as always right?

Jews and other non-Muslims ...

I read the site you linked to, Judith, about the child molester and murderer who was executed for his crimes. It made me feel physically ill.

What can we do to get this boy out of Pakistan and into medical treatment? (Does anyone have a contact with Doctors Without Borders?) If his sight can still be saved, time's a-wastin'.

Unimaginable cruelty. Sickening.

I remember reading shortly after 9/11 a story that went into detail about this using of young boys. According to the story, Hamid Karzai had a young 'friend' himself. It said these 'arrangements' were quite commonplace; considered 'normal' there. How can you deal seriously and with a straight face with someone who you know is abusing children? It must be very difficult.

April 3, 2002
THE WORLD
Kandahar's Lightly Veiled Homosexual Habits
By MAURA REYNOLDS, LA TIMES STAFF WRITER

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- In his 29 years, Mohammed Daud has seen the faces of perhaps 200 women. A few dozen were family members. The rest were glimpses stolen when he should not have been looking and the women were caught without their face-shrouding burkas.

"How can you fall in love with a girl if you can't see her face?" he asks.

Daud is unmarried and has sex only with men and boys. But he does not consider himself homosexual, at least not in the Western sense. "I like boys, but I like girls better," he says. "It's just that we can't see the women to see if they are beautiful. But we can see the boys, and so we can tell which of them is beautiful."

Daud, a motorbike repairman who asked that only his two first names and not his family name be used, has a youthful face, a jaunty black mustache and a post-Taliban cleanshaven chin. As he talks, his knee bounces up and down, an involuntary sign of his embarrassment.

"These are hard questions you are asking," he says. "We don't usually talk about such things."

Though rarely acknowledged, the prevalence of sex between Afghan men is an open secret, one most observant visitors quickly surmise.

#50

"The U.S. or Israel should offer to fly the kid (and his family) out to have the operation he needs on his eyes as a humanitarian gesture; how is Pakistan going to say no to that without looking heartless? "

If Israel were to offer help, I would predict fierce objections. I'm thinking of the reactions in Iran after Israeli groups made humanitarian gestures in response to the Bam earthquakes. But, maybe they'd let the Jews help if Israel threw in one free Tel Aviv suicide bombing to sweeten the deal ..."Oh, please let us help you...we'll do anything!"

#69 its jake: Good point about the Catholic situation. While I'm am infuriated over the priests' molestation (my best friend's brother was molested), it IS against the teaching of the Catholic church. The same cannot be said about islam. spit.

I can tell you that public adult male homosexual behavior was nothing short of rampant, on the quaysides and piers, by the faithful in SA. I remember it as absolutely appalling, and did little to raise my already low opinion of this "society".

I feel confident in saying that you could substitute any geographical location for Saudi Arabia and your observation would still be true. At any rate, I can vouch from direct sensory observation -- and I mean direct -- that public adult male homosexual behavior is appallingly rampant on the quaysides and piers of NYC, the parks of Washington DC, the Jeffersonian gardens of Charlottesville, VA, and the restrooms on Red Square in Moscow. (Ah, college days.)

The point, at any rate, is that what you observed says more about men than it does about the character of Saudi society (about which there's plenty bad to say).

I used to support school choice whole-heartedly for America's schools, until I started thinking, "what if this kind of school came to one of our inner cities and was able to use parents' vouchers to establish itself? I could easily see Farrakhan and his kind setting them up.

Abel #87 -

You miss the point. I wouldn't expect Pakistan to accept an offer from Israel. The important thing is that Israel make the offer. If Pakistan turns it down, Pakistan looks bad, not Israel. Iran looked bad for turning down Israel's offer, too.

On the other hand, I would expect Pakistan to accept an offer from the U.S., which is supposedly an ally.

I also used Israel and the U.S. because I believe that those two countries have the advanced technology and level of excellence of medical care needed to address this child's problem. I don't know of any other country similarly equipped to help him, though I could be wrong with regard to some Western European countries.

#11 Hassen bin Sober

what is described in the news story is not homosexuality. Just like when a man rapes a little girl is not hetrosexuality.

#17 Judith

Your observations were right on. This was not a sick muslem issue. Its a sick power issue. Any time an occupation is given too much power as all the clergy of the major religions are, individuals that want that power will enter those power structures.

Unlike Muslims with 72 virgin girls and 27 smooth boys for their afterlife entertainment, we Catholics will not have a sex life in the hereafter (Matthew Chapter 23)

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. [3] 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Can't wait to send my kids to a madrassah for some advanced progressive education

Unlike Muslims with 72 virgin girls and 27 smooth boys for their afterlife entertainment, we Catholics will not have a sex life in the hereafter

Don't you hate it when you come across a straight line so rich with possibilities that you can't decide what to do with it?

perhaps a little OT, but germane to the underlying issue. The problem of sexual dysfunction and attendant pathologies in mohammedan societies is well known historically. The segregation of women from society led, quite naturally to alternative (pathological) outlets for male sexuality.

The Turks, Pashtuns, Moghuls, and doubtless many others engaged in "relationships" with boys, and many even saw good looking boys as a status symbol. These relationships had elaborate courtship rituals and sought if not approval, at least the acquiescense of the father.

In such estrogen-free societies, the machismo of the uber-radical religious zealots goes utterly unchecked and degenerates into the type of over-the-top violence we are now dealing with.

Men who are taught that women are inferior and "unclean" creatures and who have no hope of ever marrying or having any kind of adult relationship with a female, obviously hold thier lives exceptionally cheap and are encouraged to prove thier ultra-machismo by blowing themselves up.

This is the program of the "madrassas" Mind-numbing rote repetition of the koran, buggery and sexual intimidation, and the glorification of machismo, violence and jihad.

There will be no "reformation" or "renaissance" or "enlightenment" in the mohammedan world unless and until women are allowed thier full sphere of freedom and influence in these societies.

For us in the west, the nagging, mewling, feminizing, nanny-ing, nurturing, scaredy-cat, over-weening, intelligent, wise, long-suffering, patient, unconditionally-loving voices of the women in our society are so ubiquitous that they are as unnoticed as the air, and yet every bit as vital to our lives.

Can you imagine a society without air?

perhaps a little OT, but germane to the underlying issue. The problem of sexual dysfunction and attendant pathologies in mohammedan societies is well known historically. The segregation of women from society led, quite naturally to alternative (pathological) outlets for male sexuality.

The Turks, Pashtuns, Moghuls, and doubtless many others engaged in "relationships" with boys, and many even saw good looking boys as a status symbol. These relationships had elaborate courtship rituals and sought if not approval, at least the acquiescense of the father.

Coincidentally, I have just been reading Plato's Phaedrus. Classical Greek culture, like Muslim culture, devalued the intellectual capacity of women and relegated them to to an inferior shut-at-home status. And both societies at the very least tolerated homosexual relationships between adult men and adolescent boys. The difference, of course, is that Plato's Greece was the cradle of modern democracy and Western civilization, while contemporary Mohammedan societies are basketcases. One observation I would make in contrasting Athenian and Mohammedan "modes" of homosexuality is that the Greeks idealized a mentor/apprentice type of relationship -- there was great emphasis on the man's responsibilities towards the youth, and it was expected from the outset that the youth's destiny was to outgrow the relationship and become a friend and peer of his former lover.

Throbert -

I thought about ancient Greece (and Rome), too, but, as you correctly mentioned, the relationship between the man and the youth was primarily one of mentoring.

From what I understand, there was a lot of romantic idealization in both directions, and the boys were not raped, intimidated, beaten or otherwise physically harmed. Part of the point of the relationship was the older man's admiration of the youth's physical beauty and the youth's admiration of the older man's wisdom. Beautiful young men could be advanced on the career or social ladder with the right liaisons.

Another huge difference was that, unlike the monotheists, the pagan Greeks did not consider these relationships to be immoral. They were an accepted part of the social structure (although I find it interesting that none of the myths describe homosexual relationships among the gods or between male gods and men - all of the gods and goddesses are emphatically hetero, going around in various disguises and ravishing or seducing females and males alike).

It's true that women were devalued by both the Greeks and Romans - they did not have the rights of citizenship. But there certainly was a lot more social interaction between women and men, and women could leave their homes without an escort.

#97 Throbert McGee

Perhaps you can add Japan and other Buddist countries to your list of countries with that sort of history.

I have a book of translations of Japanese folk tales (the translater is a horribly boring writer so I can't recommend it). Anyway there's a number of stories about Buddist priests and their boy lovers... Buddist priests are supposed to be celebate of course.

The stories are completely matter of fact - but perhaps they're actually meant as jokes, analgious to this one about Catholic priests and Nuns:

Nun to her cardinal: "Do you think priests and nuns will ever be allowed to marry?"

Cardinal: "Well, not in our children's time, or our children's children's time, but perhaps in our children's children's children's time."

although I find it interesting that none of the myths describe homosexual relationships among the gods or between male gods and men

Ganymede, please pick up white courtesy phone!

Predictably, that's a man/youth pairing, as was Apollo/Hyacinthus. I don't know of any Greek myths that portray homosexual love between male gods of similar age and rank. (You do have mortal pairs like Achilles & Patroclus, and Damon & Pythias.)

I also recently read Gilgamesh in translation. In contrast both to the Greek ideal and to the way that homosexuality among the Middle Eastern pagans is often portrayed (boy-buggery or male temple prostitutes), the Babylonian king Gilgamesh and his "wild man" companion Enkidu are both adult warrior types, and equal in stature. (And on the topic of how different cultures viewed male-female relationships: the story venerates Gilgamesh's mom, as well as the female temple prostitute who sleeps with Enkidu before introducing him to Gil. But Gil's bride is mentioned only in passing and then forgotten, as Gil takes a shine to the hairy, virile Enk. And the goddess Ishtar is scornfully rejected when she offers Gil a slice of her sweet potato pie. )

#100 Throbert McGee

I moved back and forth between Canada and the United States during my childhood, and being through a bunch of school systems means that I was taught Greek and Roman mythology in elementary school at least three times.

Since mythology is considered a topic for children, our view of the subject is probably highly censored.

Throbert -

My bad! I plum fergot about Ganymede and Hyacinthus. I'm not sure that the Achilles-Patroclus relationship was sexual; the Iliad doesn't say for sure, though it's most likely a safe assumption that it was.

Interesting stuff about Gilgamesh. A lot of ancient Hebrew law was in direct reaction to the customs of surrounding peoples (human sacrifice, cooking an unborn animal fetus in its own mother's milk, "holy" prostitution, idol worship, etc.). The rejection of homosexuality was no doubt part of this establishment of a separate cultural and religious identity.

Well, Well, Well, it appears that man-boy buggery isn't limited to Islamic cultures after all. So much for the unique evil malignancy of Islam. Lots of cultures, both historical and present-day, seem to have these problems.

And no, that doesn't make the madrassas OK. They are evil for many reasons, not just forced sodomy of students.

But it appears, once again, that the evil they encompass is one that spans many societies and cultures, and is not unique to Islam.

#97 to #102

I follow what you're getting at, but you all miss my point. It isn't necessarily the man-boy relationship which is the root of the problem (although it can't help either) It is the fact that this type of illicit male-oriented sexual abuse is accepted at all by a society that touts itself as morally superior. It is the fact that this type of abuse reinforces the deadly pathological mysogyny that characterizes all of mohammedan society.

It is the mysogyny that excuses all sorts of pathologies, the most pernicious of which is the hopelessness which many "unmarriageable" adolescent and young adult males must feel about thier ability to have any sort of healthy sexual fulfuillment, or any satisfying relationship with the opposite sex.

The anger of these youths is what the islamofascists prey on. They create the conditions for it, they nurture it, and they unleash it on thier enemies.

The fact that this boy survivied and made it into the news is exceptinal only in the fact that it was reported at all. There must be MILLIONS of other cases just like it or worse.

Sounds like prison and the way the Nation of Islam (and now real Muslims) has been sucking in angry black men.

Step 1)Find an angry black man (or create the conditions)

Step 2)Make him feel like a victim

Step 3)Direct that anger at the man

Step 4) -

Step 5) PROFIT!

)

Ed M. :

Unlike Muslims with 72 virgin girls and 27 smooth boys for their afterlife entertainment, we Catholics will not have a sex life in the hereafter

Reminds me of the joke about the Priest and the Rabbi, which ends thusly:

"Well, it's better than pork, isn't it?

For those of you who who were on the From PLO Terrorist to Lover of Zion thread, you may remember my mentioning Miletus, the Greek/Eastern Mediterranean mythical ancestor of several Irish clans.

Turns out he was a bit of a hussy-boy in his youth:

He was the son of Apollo and Areia.
He was one of the most extraordinarily beautiful men in Greek mythology.

Minos, the stern ruler of Crete fell in love with him.
Minos' brother, Sarpedon also feel in love with him.
Miletus decided that he wanted to be with Sarpedon, but the two of them had to flee to Asia Minor because Minos wasn't too happy about the decision.

Radical Islam Influencing Chechen Rebels

Watch Gordy squeal.

zulubaby -

I posted that link on the "Religion of Subway Bombing" thread.

I couldn't help but wonder whether the bearded journalist might have been a Joo. Oh, the horror!! ;)

This creep is admired for being such a bigot that he feels polluted by "infidels," but Israel's attempts to prevent the ultimate intimacy of intermingled shredded body parts is condemned. Feh.

Amy (#109)

LOL, I posted that link and not a minute later I saw that you'd posted it on the other thread :-)

This guy sounds even more demented than the regular demented Islamists. Filth.

#108 Zulubaby: See my thought-provoking responses to Chechen terrorism and comparison to the Israeli-Palestinian situation on that thread. You probably agree with most of it, if you are willing to admit it (ha ha).

I've taken to scrolling past your posts lately but I'll go check out the other thread. I'm not sure that "thought provoking" is the best way to describe your comments though ...

For us in the west, the nagging, mewling, feminizing, nanny-ing, nurturing, scaredy-cat, over-weening, intelligent, wise, long-suffering, patient, unconditionally-loving voices of the women in our society are so ubiquitous that they are as unnoticed as the air, and yet every bit as vital to our lives.

You smacked it out of the park!!!

Is anyone surprised by this?Pakistan has a long history of attacking with acid those who reject the advances of a man.

Errm Buddhists in Japan?In name only.Buddhism forbids the taking of life (including all animal life) and being responsible for the taking of life.Can anyone see how this fundamental tenet of Buddhism is respected in any part of East Asia or Indochina?To say that the Buddhism found in these parts is true to the tents of true Indian Buddhism is like saying that Manhatten culture reflects Christendom.Grow up and understand the world.Paedophiles occur in every society and under every guise.Unfortuantely, due to the draconian system of sexual repression in Islamic countries, homosexuals seek pleasures of the baby-flesh from the boys at Madrassahs.The best way is to become an Imam.

# 89 Throbert
I feel confident in saying that you could substitute any geographical location for Saudi Arabia and your observation would still be true ...

Well, not what I meant to say - I was describing a set of behaviors so pervasive, evidently accepted, and so, well, public, that it appeared emblematic of the civic culture - bearing in mind that SA was not, and is not now, a "free" society.

Public display of homosexuality (in western, free societies) remains to this day, a part of a aggressive counter-culture - stronger each day, not altogether to the advance of our societies.

#92 Kelly - agreed, the crime described to start this thread is not about homosexuality, per se. But I believe the subject requires an examination of the conditions brought about by a(ny) society's acceptance of adult-male/juvenile-male sexual desire, as a behavioral extension of accepted adult activity.

Western cultures prosecute such abuses, when evidence is discovered. Can we not assume a standard of gross impunity in the minds of the evil actors in this case, where the original abuse is not only unlikely to be "discovered", but the adult perpetrator believes he can defend his position via a break/enter and a vicious assault, in the presence of witnesses (collaborators and others)?

zulubaby #110 -

I agree that he's totally demented. Problem is, his particular brand of dementia is what his followers so fervently admire about him.

So... what does that make them?

This is an appalling incident and I hope whoever is responsible for this gets the appropriate penalty. This is not "Islam's dirty secret", child abuse happens everywhere and acid attacks are a well-known problem in the Subcontinent (not just among Muslims).

You guys just don't understand. Muslim clerics are chosen by Allah to arrange the earth accordiing to the dictates of Mohammed (peace be upon him). Therefore they are allowed to do more or less what they like.

Soon all you Dhimmis will understand what is important in the world. If you resist, of course, you will be destroyed.

It might help you avoid unpleasantness if you did a little research on Dhimmitude, so you'll know what you're in for. Then you won't be so surprised when your women, children and other property become the toys of the faithful.
But, to be fair, you have the opportunity to convert to Islam and reap the coming harvest. But don't wait too long, Kafir.
Enjoy.