Falwell’s University Purges Campus Democrats

Liberty University, the fundamentalist Christian college founded by Jerry Falwell that actually has “biology” courses titled “Advanced Creation Studies,” has announced that they’re banning the campus Democratic Party club — despite the fact that the club opposes abortion and gay marriage.

The religious right is starting to purge the unfaithful monkeys.

Liberty University has revoked its recognition of the campus Democratic Party club, saying “we are unable to lend support to a club whose parent organization stands against the moral principles held by” the university.

“It kind of happened out of nowhere,” said Brian Diaz, president of LU’s student Democratic Party organization, which LU formally recognized in October. Diaz said he was notified of the school’s decision May 15 in an e-mail from Mark Hine, vice president of student affairs.

According to the e-mail, the club must stop using the university’s name, holding meetings on campus, or advertising events. Violators could incur one or more reprimands under the school’s Liberty Way conduct code, and anyone who accumulates 30 reprimands is subject to expulsion.

Hine said late Thursday that the university could not sanction an official club that supported Democratic candidates. “We are in no way attempting to stifle free speech.”

Hine said the university had recently completed a policy that would govern clubs and organizations on campus. “We looked at each club and organization to determine where it stood and unfortunately this one kind of got in the sights of policy, if you will,” he said.

Hine’s e-mail mentioned that he had expressed a concern to Diaz about the national Democratic Party’s platform during a meeting earlier in the semester.

Last fall, Diaz said, Hine had complimented the club for being a faith-based organization working within the Democratic Party.

Jan Dervish, secretary of the club, and Maria Childress, its staff adviser, said they met with Hine after the revocation and asked for a further explanation.

“He said it wasn’t us. It was the national Democratic Party,” which the campus club’s constitution supports, Dervish said. The campus club also opposes abortion and supports the traditional view of marriage, Dervish said.

“His bottom line was, ‘You can’t be a Democrat and be a Christian and be a university representative,’” Childress said.

(Hat tip: AP.)

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558 comments
1 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:47:27pm
The religious right is starting to purge the unfaithful monkeys.

Hey, they're not related to monkeys!

2 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:48:03pm

Who cares?

It's a private university, so there's no political issue here.

3 MacDuff  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:48:39pm

Man, this is just nuts.

4 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:48:46pm

re: #2 gnargtharst

Who cares?

It's a private university, so there's no political issue here.

Who cares? Well, probably the members of the Democrat club care. Just at a guess.

5 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:48:55pm

“We are in no way attempting to stifle free speech.”

Uh, that's exactly what you're doing.

6 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:49:46pm
“It kind of happened out of nowhere,” said Brian Diaz, president of LU’s student Democratic Party organization, which LU formally recognized in October. Diaz said he was notified of the school’s decision May 15 in an e-mail from Mark Hine, vice president of student affairs.

So, if they're doing this now, why did they recognize them back in October?

7 solomonpanting  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:49:47pm
Hine said late Thursday that the university could not sanction an official club that supported Democratic candidates. “We are in no way attempting to stifle free speech.”

Doesn't the first sentence negate the second?

8 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:50:09pm

re: #2 gnargtharst

Who cares?

It's a private university, so there's no political issue here.

I suppose that the right to make a fool of yourself is a cherished US right.

9 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:50:43pm
“We are in no way attempting to stifle free speech.”

Dude, that's what this action is about heh. ?!?

10 iceman1960  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:50:48pm

private university they can do what they please like it or not outside of breaking the law.

11 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:50:49pm

re: #8 EmmmieG

I suppose that the right to make a fool of yourself is a cherished US right.

It's a right I take very seriously every day of my life.

12 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:51:01pm

So now free speech is not allowed even by a supposedly Conservative organization? Not good, the illness afflicting our Republic is pandemic.

13 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:51:20pm

*banging head on desk*

/returns to lurking mode

14 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:51:44pm

re: #10 iceman1960

private university they can do what they please like it or not outside of breaking the law.

Who said they couldn't? And I also have the right to disapprove of it, no?

15 Kragar  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:51:58pm

What a bunch of assholes

16 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:52:30pm

re: #4 Charles

Who cares? So the Democratic Party Club objects.... Then don't enroll there. It's a private university full of fundamentalists. If you want to start a club that opposes the founding dogma, you might find yourself unwelcome.

It's not a "free speech" issue. All the Democrat Club members are perfectly welcome to speak their inane speech somewhere else, using their own property.

Non-issue.

17 iceman1960  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:52:42pm

re: #14 Charles

Who said they couldn't? And I also have the right to disapprove of it, no?

I disagree with it too so you're not alone.

18 _RememberTonyC  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:53:16pm

A Democrat at Liberty U? There must be some mistake ...

And the irony of the school's title can't be lost on those whose own liberty was compromised on campus.

19 solomonpanting  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:53:19pm

Liberty University officials:

"Falwell's that ends well"

20 MacDuff  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:53:19pm

re: #10 iceman1960

private university they can do what they please like it or not outside of breaking the law.

They sure can, at the price of their credibility. I would think that credibility would be somewhat valuable to a university.

21 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:53:22pm

I'm invited to give a presentation at LU next year. They invited me a year ago, and at first I declined because it was on a Saturday, then they called me back saying they would change the schedule to accommodate me, so I accepted.

I am having regrets and want to cancel, I think I will opt out for health reasons.

22 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:53:54pm

re: #16 gnargtharst

Who cares? So the Democratic Party Club objects.... Then don't enroll there. It's a private university full of fundamentalists. If you want to start a club that opposes the founding dogma, you might find yourself unwelcome.

It's not a "free speech" issue. All the Democrat Club members are perfectly welcome to speak their inane speech somewhere else, using their own property.

Non-issue.

And I didn't say it was a "free speech" issue -- but go right ahead and keep arguing about points that weren't made.

But it is an issue, despite your denials.

23 middy  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:00pm

Shocking! Liberty University has always been such a bastion of free-thinking....

24 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:02pm

From now on, it's TINLU.

/the ironically named liberty university

25 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:11pm

re: #14 Charles

Who said they couldn't? And I also have the right to disapprove of it, no?

The fundies are going to shriek and send you mail you are going to hell for disagreeing, you know.

26 solomonpanting  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:12pm

re: #21 Alouette

Why not tell them your real reason?

27 subsailor68  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:30pm

Last fall, Diaz said, Hine had complimented the club for being a faith-based organization working within the Democratic Party.

Okay, a private university can do what it pleases, but it doesn't seem to me a very good idea to trash the very people you're hoping to help carry your message to the opposition party - perhaps even help modify it's position(s) sometime in the future.

28 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:40pm

re: #16 gnargtharst

Who cares? So the Democratic Party Club objects.... Then don't enroll there. It's a private university full of fundamentalists. If you want to start a club that opposes the founding dogma, you might find yourself unwelcome.

It's not a "free speech" issue. All the Democrat Club members are perfectly welcome to speak their inane speech somewhere else, using their own property.

Non-issue.

What information do you have to indicate that the Democrat Club members "oppose" the founding dogma?

It appears they are pro-life - would be nice, would it not, for pro-life Dems to have a place?

29 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:44pm

what a wonderful display of tolerance eh?....I wonder who's next on their hit list?

30 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:54:51pm

PARENTS WITH KIDS ABOUT TO GO TO COLLEGE TAKE A NOTE:

Liberty University, the fundamentalist Christian college founded by Jerry Falwell

Don't send your kids here.

31 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:56:15pm

re: #26 solomonpanting

Why not tell them your real reason?

That is my real reason. The thought of going there makes me feel unwell. On the other hand, I feel obligated because they changed their whole schedule around me. BTW the presentation is about "Jews in the Civil War."

32 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:56:53pm

I wonder if Pat Robertson's institution, Regent University, will follow suit, or if it even has a Democrat club to ban?

33 UFO TOFU  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:57:15pm

re: #31 Alouette

A transcript of that would be quite interesting.

34 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:57:37pm

Well, that's pretty stupid. Democrats are wrong, but in an argue against, not a purge from society kind of way.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:57:51pm

re: #10 iceman1960

private university they can do what they please like it or not outside of breaking the law.

Sure. And we can point and laugh. There are many wrong and stupid things that are not against the law. That they are not against the law does not exempt them from being wrong or stupid.

36 LGoPs  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:57:58pm

re: #29 albusteve

what a wonderful display of tolerance eh?....I wonder who's next on their hit list?

You.....
/ *just kidding*

37 iceman1960  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:58:38pm

I wouldn't send my kid to any college that tries to silence opposing viewpoints. But like I said it's their right as a private college. The best thing people can do is refuse to patronize the place.

38 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:58:41pm

re: #21 Alouette

I'm invited to give a presentation at LU next year. They invited me a year ago, and at first I declined because it was on a Saturday, then they called me back saying they would change the schedule to accommodate me, so I accepted.

I am having regrets and want to cancel, I think I will opt out for health reasons.

Just tell them you have rethought your prior acceptance and tell them no.

And if part of the reluctance is from their policy of speech censorship as outlined above, definitely tell them.

39 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:58:43pm
40 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:58:53pm

re: #36 LGoPs

You.....
/ *just kidding*

I'm heathen...bring it on

41 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:59:42pm

re: #22 Charles

Okay, so you're not claiming it's a "free speech" issue, then what's left? Fundamentalist Christian university not friendly to Democrats? Shocking!

Also, the phrase "purge", suggesting something Soviet-esque, is a bit over the top. Political parties have been purged from universities before, and it looked a lot different than icon-buffing at Falwell U.

42 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:59:45pm

re: #26 solomonpanting

Why not tell them your real reason?

It makes the university look doubly stupid, since they just recognized them back in October. I don't think the Dems' political platform was any different back then. It would be a little more understandable had the club been around for a long time.

43 CommonCents  Fri, May 22, 2009 12:59:50pm

re: #24 Ward Cleaver

From now on, it's TINLU.

/the ironically named liberty university

LINO University

44 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:00:01pm

re: #39 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure it's just campus politics; the LGBT Club wanted their office.

sounds like a sandwich

45 solomonpanting  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:00:01pm

re: #31 Alouette

That is my real reason. The thought of going there makes me feel unwell. On the other hand, I feel obligated because they changed their whole schedule around me. BTW the presentation is about "Jews in the Civil War."

All right, then. But, if you change your mind, try to research Democrats at that time who happened to be Jewish and include them in your presentation!

46 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:00:31pm

re: #37 iceman1960

I wouldn't send my kid to any college that tries to silence opposing viewpoints. But like I said it's their right as a private college. The best thing people can do is refuse to patronize the place.

That cuts out a whole lot of public schools these days, though.

47 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:00:35pm
48 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:00:35pm

Private university? For the most part, yes. I am going to search around for some outside public funding at Liberty University. It's simple to assume that they are "tax exempt." I also assume that the university infrastructure is supported by state and local governments. Many of the state infrastructure systems get federal funding to a certain extent.

According to the 2008-09 Virginia Scholarships & Grants Allocations - State Council of Higher Education, Liberty University received $47,646 under CSAP funding and $10,000 under HETAP.

49 alegrias  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:00:53pm

re: #23 middy

Shocking! Liberty University has always been such a bastion of free-thinking....

* * * * *
Nothing like free thinking George Washington University in our Nation's Capital, where the College Republicans signs are torn down!

50 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:02pm

re: #41 gnargtharst

Okay, so you're not claiming it's a "free speech" issue, then what's left? Fundamentalist Christian university not friendly to Democrats? Shocking!

Also, the phrase "purge", suggesting something Soviet-esque, is a bit over the top. Political parties have been purged from universities before, and it looked a lot different than icon-buffing at Falwell U.

common decency....

51 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:11pm

re: #37 iceman1960

I wouldn't send my kid to any college that tries to silence opposing viewpoints. But like I said it's their right as a private college. The best thing people can do is refuse to patronize the place.

You do have a short list of schools, don't you?
/

52 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:23pm

...and this is why America is a secular society. Secularism protects our freedoms. Theocracies, not so much.

53 Jetpilot1101  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:28pm

Boy this University really epitomizes the core values of the Christian doctrine. What a way to reach out to people and show them the love of Christ. I think Christ would have one word for these folks; pharisees.

54 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:45pm
55 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:53pm

re: #45 solomonpanting

All right, then. But, if you change your mind, try to research Democrats at that time who happened to be Jewish and include them in your presentation!

All the liberals in the 1860's were Republicans.

56 iceman1960  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:01:56pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. And we can point and laugh. There are many wrong and stupid things that are not against the law. That they are not against the law does not exempt them from being wrong or stupid.

Chill out guys I'm not in disagreement with you. I too do not approve of it just stating a fact.
Geez must be something in the air!

57 LGoPs  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:06pm

re: #40 albusteve

I'm heathen...bring it on

I had a soldier in Germany who insisted that they put Druid on his dog tags......
I thought it was pretty funny. I told him I'd sprinkle goat's blood on him and do a chant if he bought it.

58 Shr_Nfr  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:19pm

Because you can do all sorts of things at a private institution is no reason for doing them, especially when they transgress on the rights of speech and association. This sort of stuff is very damaging in the long run to the Republican party because correctly or not, people will associate this with the Republicans. I could not think of a better way to undermine support for Republican candidates if I tried.

59 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:21pm

re: #44 albusteve

sounds like a sandwich

They could configure like that I guess. G on the bottom followed by T.... oh wait. The sandwich idea might not be so good after all. I don't know where to slide the L in.

60 lawhawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:25pm

This is a teaching moment for the University, and I'm not sure this is the lesson that they want people to learn. They aren't tolerating opposing opinions. That's within their rights, but it also shows that academia has its hypocrites on both sides of the aisle.

The university (the general and collective for higher education) is supposed to be a place where opinions and long held beliefs are challenged. Instead, what we have here is a repudiation of that very concept.

Hey, that's within their right, but that doesn't mean that they did the right thing. In the long term, it continues the polarization on college campuses across the nation.

61 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:31pm

re: #41 gnargtharst

Doing tit for tat as Dems and Libs routinely do is not the mark of maturity or decency.

62 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:47pm

re: #53 Jetpilot1101

Boy this University really epitomizes the core values of the Christian doctrine. What a way to reach out to people and show them the love of Christ. I think Christ would have one word for these folks; pharisees.

Whitewashed tombs.

63 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:49pm

re: #41 gnargtharst

Okay, so you're not claiming it's a "free speech" issue, then what's left?

It's a stupidity issue, and another indicator that the religious right is becoming more extremist.

Also, the phrase "purge", suggesting something Soviet-esque, is a bit over the top.

Coming from a guy who thinks the US should revert to the gold standard, you'll excuse me if I don't care too much about what you think is "over the top."

64 iceman1960  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:51pm

re: #51 CyanSnowHawk

You do have a short list of schools, don't you?
/

You've got that right.

65 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:02:54pm

re: #39 buzzsawmonkey

I'm sure it's just campus politics; the LGBT Club wanted their office.

Why do I have this sudden urge for a lettuce, guacamole, bacon & tomato sandwhich?

66 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:03:07pm

re: #54 buzzsawmonkey

Yes: I suggested to jorline that a Lettuce, Guacamole, Bacon and Tomato sandwich be introduced some time back.

stick it in a tortilla and call it a taco!

67 CommonCents  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:03:15pm

I would think that this would be what they call a teaching opportunity. Instead of silencing the group shouldn't the Univ. attempt to toggle the bits in their brains? What exactly is the lesson to be learned from the admin. behavior?

68 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:03:29pm

re: #63 Charles

Coming from a guy who thinks the US should revert to the gold standard, you'll excuse me if I don't care too much about what you think is "over the top."

Another "Devil's Advocate" sock puppet?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:03:30pm

re: #53 Jetpilot1101

Boy this University really epitomizes the core values of the Christian doctrine. What a way to reach out to people and show them the love of Christ. I think Christ would have one word for these folks; pharisees.

They're really more Sadducee-like, I think.

70 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:03:40pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

...and this is why America is a secular society. Secularism protects our freedoms. Theocracies, not so much.

"We can't drive our cars, set our thermostats to what we want, eat what we want, and expect other [people? nations? I forget exactly] to be okay with that."
Yeah, not so much with the protecting freedoms. China is certainly secular, is it not? Cuba?

71 yochanan  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:03:48pm

WELL i would think that turn around is fair play since cons. get it at liberal universities not that i am infavor when it happens to someone i agree with either.

72 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:04:01pm

re: #67 CommonCents

I would think that this would be what they call a teaching opportunity. Instead of silencing the group shouldn't the Univ. attempt to toggle the bits in their brains? What exactly is the lesson to be learned from the admin. behavior?

"La, la, la, la, I am not listening to you, I have my fingers in my ears".

73 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:04:05pm

re: #66 albusteve

stick it in a tortilla and call it a taco!

actually it sounds delicious...mmmm

74 alegrias  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:04:24pm

re: #53 Jetpilot1101

Boy this University really epitomizes the core values of the Christian doctrine. What a way to reach out to people and show them the love of Christ. I think Christ would have one word for these folks; pharisees.

* * * *
Say Pilot, do you happen to know whether Columbia University allows ROTC on campus yet? Or was that Harvard University? Pres. Obama agreed these schools should lighten up & allow ROTC back during his campaign.

Nothing like taking federal tax dollars and denying young people the right to study & serve their country on campus IF THEY WANT TO.

75 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:04:28pm

re: #44 albusteve

sounds like a sandwich

LGBT Club.
Lettuce Guacomole Bacon Tomato Club.

Sounds redundant, isn't a Club sandwich already decked out with lettuce, bacon, tomato, and guac?

76 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:04:43pm

re: #63 Charles

Coming from a guy who thinks the US should revert to the gold standard, you'll excuse me if I don't care too much about what you think is "over the top."

Oh crap, a Paulian?

/bus-ted!

77 CommonCents  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:04:52pm

re: #60 lawhawk

This is a teaching moment for the University, and I'm not sure this is the lesson that they want people to learn. They aren't tolerating opposing opinions. That's within their rights, but it also shows that academia has its hypocrites on both sides of the aisle.

The university (the general and collective for higher education) is supposed to be a place where opinions and long held beliefs are challenged. Instead, what we have here is a repudiation of that very concept.

Hey, that's within their right, but that doesn't mean that they did the right thing. In the long term, it continues the polarization on college campuses across the nation.

See my #67. I feel like I've plagarized you but didn't even read your post. Sorry about that.

78 shug  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:05:14pm

The intolerant religious right

The intolerant irreligeous left


Screw them both

79 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:05:17pm

One reason that people will associate this with the Republican Party is because it's true.

Past speakers have included Presidential Candidate John McCain, President Ronald Reagan, President George H. W. Bush, Rev. Billy Graham, Col. Oliver North, Steve Forbes, Leonard Davidson, Former US Senator from North Carolina Jesse Helms, Sam Donaldson, John R. Rice, Elisabeth Elliot (wife of the late missionary Jim Elliot), Skip Erickson, Freddie Gage, Adrian Rogers, creationist Ken Ham, governor Tim Kaine, Sean Hannity, and 2008 Presidential Candidates Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul.

80 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:05:24pm

re: #28 reine.de.tout

"What information do you have to indicate that the Democrat Club members "oppose" the founding dogma?"

I have no information whatsoever to indicate this. They may not. But if university leadership deems it so, regardless of whether they're loons or not, it's their choice.

"It appears they are pro-life - would be nice, would it not, for pro-life Dems to have a place?"

Pro-life Dems do have a place. Anywhere in the USA, utilizing their own property, or the property of others, at their consent.

I don't have an opinion on whether it would be "nice" for "pro-life" dems (sounds like the worst of both worlds to me) to "have a place".

81 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:05:38pm

re: #20 MacDuff

They sure can, at the price of their credibility. I would think that credibility would be somewhat valuable to a university.

I've always had my doubts about the credibility of a school with biology courses with titles like the one Charles cited.

82 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:05:47pm

So what's the latest on the fate of the Liberty University Muslim Student Association?

83 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:05:48pm

re: #57 LGoPs

I had a soldier in Germany who insisted that they put Druid on his dog tags......
I thought it was pretty funny. I told him I'd sprinkle goat's blood on him and do a chant if he bought it.

to be fair a CO should always have a little goats blood handy

84 shug  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:06:00pm

Has anybody spoken to Tinky Winky about this ?

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:06:31pm

re: #71 yochanan

WELL i would think that turn around is fair play since cons. get it at liberal universities not that i am infavor when it happens to someone i agree with either.

Berkeley still has a Young Republican branch on campus. They may get flack, but they are allowed to have an official club. I've never heard of Republicans simply getting shut down at a liberal campus. If it's happened, let me know so I can be appalled at them as well.

86 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:06:31pm

re: #84 shug

Has anybody spoken to Tinky Winky about this ?

He couldn't be found for comment, but Poe was pissed.

87 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:06:35pm
88 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:06:36pm

re: #79 Charles

One reason that people will associate this with the Republican Party is because it's true.

And the GOP is embracing this religious dogma insanity with zeal and fervor.

89 J.D.  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:06:59pm

I always wondered what would make anyone want to attend that school.
Jerry Falwell had already proven his ignorance well in advance of this.

90 Jetpilot1101  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:07:04pm

re: #74 alegrias

* * * *
Say Pilot, do you happen to know whether Columbia University allows ROTC on campus yet? Or was that Harvard University? Pres. Obama agreed these schools should lighten up & allow ROTC back during his campaign.

Nothing like taking federal tax dollars and denying young people the right to study & serve their country on campus IF THEY WANT TO.

I can't honestly say because I don't know. I haven't heard of anymore dustups over at those institutions of higher learning; I had just assumed that they had let the ROTC back on. I'll do a bit of research.

91 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:07:22pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

They're really more Sadducee-like, I think.

Sadducee and Pharisee...

/to the tune of ebony and ivory

92 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:07:50pm
93 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:07:58pm

Think about it this way. The Falwell Liberty University Democrat Club is probably further right than Luop Nor. I can't imagine a dope smoking rock and roll type would want to attend Liberty University.

94 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:02pm

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

Sadducee and Pharisee...

/to the tune of ebony and ivory

Just what's a Zealot to do?

95 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:08pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Berkeley still has a Young Republican branch on campus. They may get flack, but they are allowed to have an official club. I've never heard of Republicans simply getting shut down at a liberal campus. If it's happened, let me know so I can be appalled at them as well.

Definately a fair point, but they are often treated very poorly by leftists students with tacit administration approval, for instance allowing the shouting down of speakers and stealing of newspapers under the guise of free speech when it is in fact intimidation.

96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:11pm

everybody....shhhh. I'm sitting in a hotel across the street from Liberty University.

I'm not a Democrat (gasp!, right?), but dayam!

97 UFO TOFU  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:18pm

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

I'd ding ya up for that except I hate that song.

98 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:23pm

Jerry Falwell has always given me the creeps...he has that perpetual 'just smoked a bowl of good hash' squinty smirk....I think there is more to this guy then we know....Stoners for Jesus!

99 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:25pm

re: #84 shug

Has anybody spoken to Tinky Winky about this ?

Tinky Winky is dead Jim.

100 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:30pm

re: #70 nikis-knight

"We can't drive our cars, set our thermostats to what we want, eat what we want, and expect other [people? nations? I forget exactly] to be okay with that."
Yeah, not so much with the protecting freedoms. China is certainly secular, is it not? Cuba?

No, They're authoritarian dictatorships.

101 right_wing2  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:32pm

It's too bad this is going on. The University is making fools of themselves.

102 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:32pm

"Leftist educators are stifling our cherished freedoms and liberty on their campus, what do we do?"

"I've got a great idea let's act just like them!"

/

The dissonance is deafening.

103 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:40pm
104 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:08:44pm

re: #79 Charles

One reason that people will associate this with the Republican Party is because it's true.

Sam Donaldson's a Republican?

/ducking

105 J.D.  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:08pm

re: #82 Fenway_Nation

So what's the latest on the fate of the Liberty University Muslim Student Association?

Now that would be... unusual, one would think.

106 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:20pm

How's that Big Tent coming along?

107 J.D.  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:30pm

WARD!

108 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:33pm

Still following the money route.

Apparently this "private" university doesn't shy away from federal assistance.

Begin the process by completing the FAFSA!
Complete your FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) at [Link: www.fafsa.ed.gov....]
Liberty's school code is: 010392.

Also on their page:

Get MY Federal Pin Number
Access MY ASIST Account
Complete MY FAFSA

Virginia VTAG
Liberty Scholarship Information
Scholarship Search
Federal Work Study
TEACH Grant

Not exactly privately funded.

109 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:37pm

re: #99 Truck Monkey

Was Tinky Winky wearing a red shirt?

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:38pm

re: #92 Iron Fist

Is there a Republican Club at Berkeley? I don't know, but I would doubt it. We know the Left have run ROTC off campus in a number of places. This is no different. That doesn't make it wise policy, mind you. I would think that you would want to increase the number of Democrats who are Conservative, a tiny minority though they might be at this time.

There are two ways to win the social debate: win the majority for your Party and win a coalition between the Parties that agree with you. Number one looks to be unattainable right now. Number two appears attainable on a number of issues, gun control being a foremost example (65 House Democrats wrote a letter earlier this year to the leadership promising to kill any gun control legislation this session. If the Republicans hold firm, that is effectively the end of the debate).

It would seem to me that the second option was open on any number of issues. It is the harder option, as you have to win an issue at a time rather than implement your whole platform in bulk, but it is the solution that is possible. When you have two choices and one of them is not possible, you really only have one choice.

Berkeley College Republicans. Large as life, and twice as cheerful.

111 alegrias  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:40pm

re: #90 Jetpilot1101

I can't honestly say because I don't know. I haven't heard of anymore dustups over at those institutions of higher learning; I had just assumed that they had let the ROTC back on. I'll do a bit of research.

* * * *
Thank you--both candidates Obama and McCain agreed on the set of one debate that ROTC should be allowed on these hostile campuses which take federal research and other funds.

Pres. Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan supposedly was behind banning ROTC at these schools, if I recall correctly, for don't-ask-don't-tell reasons.

112 subsailor68  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:52pm

re: #81 Dianna

I've always had my doubts about the credibility of a school with biology courses with titles like the one Charles cited.

Yeah, when the head of the science department responds to a question on carbon dating by asking who Carbon is, it can make ya a bit nervous.

;-)

113 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:09:58pm

re: #95 nikis-knight

(I don't mean to imply that those were incidents specifically at Berkley, I don't remember exactly where)

114 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:01pm

re: #79 Charles
This is interesting.....

Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church and the Washington Times, helped to financially stabilize the University through two of his organizations: News World Communications, which provided a $400,000 loan to the University at 6% interest; and the Women's Federation for World Peace, which indirectly contributed $3.5 million toward the school's debt.[40] Liberty University spokesman Mark DeMoss said the school was not aware of News World's connection to Moon when it obtained the loan through a broker. "I'm not going to be pious and tell you we would have turned it down," DeMoss said. "Because it was a business transaction, we probably would have moved forward even if Dr. Falwell or somebody in the organization knew who News World Communications was."[40] Liberty University founder Jerry Falwell stated that the source of the funds does not influence his ministry, Stating: "If the American Atheists Society or Saddam Hussein himself ever sent an unrestricted gift to any of my ministries, be assured I will operate on Billy Sunday's philosophy: The Devil's had it long enough, and quickly cash the check."[41]

Ron Godwin, now Vice Chancellor at Liberty University, was previously employed under Rev. Moon as Vice President of the Washington Times.[42]

115 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:01pm

Sigh. Another example of shooting the wounded. The church has been great at that for many years.

Had a guy in our church--far left liberal. He left because he could not stomach how his party and views were shat on by so many "tolerant" Christians.

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:02pm

re: #98 albusteve

He's dead, Jim.

117 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:02pm

re: #101 right_wing2

It's too bad this is going on. The University is making fools of themselves.

the are well endowed it seems....

118 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:05pm

re: #78 shug

The intolerant religious right

The intolerant irreligeous left


Screw them both


A two tailed Intolerance Test

(a little humor for the statisticians in the room)

119 Sharmuta  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:09pm

How very tolerant and charitable and very very Christian.

120 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:25pm

re: #92 Iron Fist

There is, indeed, a Republican Club at Berkeley.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:39pm

re: #95 nikis-knight

Definately a fair point, but they are often treated very poorly by leftists students with tacit administration approval, for instance allowing the shouting down of speakers and stealing of newspapers under the guise of free speech when it is in fact intimidation.

True enough. But the campus has not officially said they can't exist, which is a further step, and I think a very negative one.

122 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:44pm

re: #88 FurryOldGuyJeans

And the GOP is embracing this religious dogma insanity with zeal and fervor.

The GOP's new battle cry: "We found a witch! May we burn her?"

123 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:49pm

Rev. Falwell is resting easy today.

124 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:57pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

No, They're authoritarian dictatorships.


What does secular mean again? Because you contrasted it with religious, not with dictatorships.

125 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:10:57pm

re: #107 J.D.

WARD!

J.D.!

126 alegrias  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:00pm

re: #98 albusteve

Jerry Falwell has always given me the creeps...he has that perpetual 'just smoked a bowl of good hash' squinty smirk....I think there is more to this guy then we know....Stoners for Jesus!

* * * *
He's dead so he's not smirking at you anymore.

Get you evangelicals straight!

127 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #98 albusteve

Jerry Falwell has always given me the creeps...he has that perpetual 'just smoked a bowl of good hash' squinty smirk....I think there is more to this guy then we know....Stoners for Jesus!

I would imagine at this point there is not much left of Jerry Falwell. He died in 2007.

128 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:02pm

Auditor of Public Accounts

4590315 09/05/2008 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY INC
$4,375,900.00

24590615 12/15/2008 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY INC
$1,464,000.00

129 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:08pm

re: #99 Truck Monkey

I swear I didn't see that!

130 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:12pm

re: #104 Ward Cleaver

Sam Donaldson's a Republican?

/ducking

I always thought he was Spock's cousin that no one liked to talk about.

131 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:41pm
132 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:42pm

re: #106 BigPapa

How's that Big Tent coming along?

Just fine, the fumigators have just about killed every living thing that couldn't escape.

133 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:44pm

re: #123 Spare O'Lake

Rev. Falwell is resting easy today.

He's giving a thumbs up.

/as are the worms

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:11:54pm

re: #104 Ward Cleaver

Sam Donaldson's a Republican?

/ducking

As a matter of fact, Donaldson is a former Republican:

Sam Donaldson Biography:

After a single year of graduate school at the University of Southern California, Donaldson returned to El Paso. At that time an enthusiastic young Republican, Donaldson worked for the Eisenhower campaign over the summer of 1956, arranging the El Paso stop of Vice President Nixon. This was only the first of many encounters with the nation's political leaders, but Donaldson's politics were to change dramatically over the years to come.

135 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:12:06pm

re: #98 albusteve

Falwell is in his grave.

136 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:12:21pm

re: #106 BigPapa

How's that Big Tent coming along?

Every morning when I wake up,...
/ducking Mandy

137 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:12:26pm

re: #126 alegrias

* * * *
He's dead so he's not smirking at you anymore.

Get you evangelicals straight!

I've been out of town for a while....I didn't know he'd passed, or maybe I did and forgot...forgive me

138 Abu Kuffar  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:12:30pm

I was surprised there was any dems in the first place

139 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:13:13pm

re: #95 nikis-knight

Definately a fair point, but they are often treated very poorly by leftists students with tacit administration approval, for instance allowing the shouting down of speakers and stealing of newspapers under the guise of free speech when it is in fact intimidation.

An "eye for an eye" is only going to make us all blind. Time for maturity to be dominant again instead of acting like spoiled brats.

140 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:13:13pm

I could certainly use the honorarium.

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:13:24pm

re: #135 Dianna

Falwell is in his grave.

He is an ex-Falwell!

IIRC Tidbit...Jerry had a gazillion quatloo life insurance policy. When he retired, the schools debt retired with him.

142 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:13:26pm

re: #124 nikis-knight

What does secular mean again? Because you contrasted it with religious, not with dictatorships.

Because there are plenty of religious dictatorships; Saudi Arabia and Iran, for instance...

143 jamie  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:13:41pm

I'm guessing there's no Hillel on campus...

I really hope Liberty loses their tax-exempt status over this.

144 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:14:13pm

re: #108 Gus 802

Students getting federal aid isn't the same as being publicly funded.

145 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:14:14pm

re: #135 Dianna

Falwell is in his grave.

Hence my comment about the worms.

/the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out...

146 J.D.  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:14:27pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He is an ex-Falwell!

IIRC Tidbit...Jerry had a gazillion quatloo life insurance policy. When he retired, the schools debt retired with him.

Did he die of natural causes?

147 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:14:43pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He is an ex-Falwell!

IIRC Tidbit...Jerry had a gazillion quatloo life insurance policy. When he retired, the schools debt retired with him.

Wow.

148 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:14:44pm

re: #142 Salamantis

Because there are plenty of religious dictatorships; Saudi Arabia and Iran, for instance...


Which doesn't refute my point that there are also plenty of secular ones.

149 J.D.  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:10pm

I guess I'd have remembered he died if there was anything controversial.
I always kind of avoided him... always...

150 Abu Kuffar  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:15pm
I really hope Liberty loses their tax-exempt status over this.

they really should

151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:15pm

re: #146 J.D.

Ish. A hundred and fifty pounds overweight, his heart just stopped. My BIL works for LU.

152 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:16pm

re: #109 Fenway_Nation

Was Tinky Winky wearing a red shirt?

That is Po. Tinky Winky is the Shaquille O'Neal of the group. He was at least a head taller than the others. It is believed he had Marfans Syndrome... which ultimately led to his untimely death. Tinky Winky was Purple with a triangle plunged into the top of his head. The Teletubbies never got back together again.

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:21pm

re: #124 nikis-knight

Secularity

(adjective form secular) is the state of being separate from religion.[1] For instance, eating and bathing may be regarded as examples of secular activities, because there may not be anything inherently religious about them. Nevertheless, both eating and bathing are regarded as sacraments in some religious traditions, and therefore would be religious activities in those worldviews.


In America we have seperation of church and state and we have freedom of religion. It's a secular society. China and Cuba have outlawed religion. They're authoritarian dictatorships.
I know secularism has become a dirty word in some circles but it's the foundation of our freedoms.

154 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:24pm

re: #146 J.D.

Did he die of natural causes?

If being a sanctimonious prig qualifies as natural, then yeah.

155 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:26pm

as a matter of recollection, when he died there was some lively debate over his life and legacy here at LGF....it's coming back to me now

156 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:34pm

re: #134 Charles

I wonder what changed him? JFK?

157 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:47pm

re: #144 Dianna

Students getting federal aid isn't the same as being publicly funded.

I don't think so actually. I'd be willing to bet that if it wasn't for state and federal student aid programs that Liberty University would go bankrupt.

158 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:15:59pm

re: #63 Charles

First, I can only conclude that you previously had a higher opinion of the religious right than I ever did; I'm not remotely surprised by the headline.

Second, thank you for your input. I'm sensitive to the use of certain words, in political or cultural contexts, that to me have radically different connotations. Talk of "purging" political parties just rubbed me the wrong way.

Third, you are correct in identifying me as somebody who advocates backing government currency with gold. Not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand, but it is true.

Fourth, it was my impression, before I started posting here recently, that our esteemed moderator was more polite.

159 alegrias  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:01pm

re: #137 albusteve

I've been out of town for a while....I didn't know he'd passed, or maybe I did and forgot...forgive me

* * * * *
Falwell and Pat Robertson are both southern Virginia-based, not that they get a lot of press up here in Northern Jihadist Virginia.

I was only ribbing you. But Falwell's Moral Majority was a movement in the 1970s that had electoral impact when Reagan needed a boost.

160 J.D.  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:03pm

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ish. A hundred and fifty pounds overweight, his heart just stopped. My BIL works for LU.

So someone was force-feeding him.

161 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:20pm

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ish. A hundred and fifty pounds overweight, his heart just stopped. My BIL works for LU.

Plus he was old.

162 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:30pm

re: #131 Iron Fist

Google informs me that Berkeley does, indeed, have an ROTC program. Several, in fact.

ROTC Programs at UC Berkeley

163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:32pm

re: #157 Gus 802

As would most universities and colleges.

164 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:39pm

re: #112 subsailor68

Yeah, when the head of the science department responds to a question on carbon dating by asking who Carbon is, it can make ya a bit nervous.

;-)

In college I asked a girl if she liked Kipling and she said, "I din't know you naughty boy, I've never kippled before".

165 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:46pm

re: #148 nikis-knight

Which doesn't refute my point that there are also plenty of secular ones.

No, but it refutes the implication that secular means dictatorship and religious means free. Theocracies are unfree. and Constitutional democratic republics (CDRs), such as the US, are both secular and free.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:48pm

re: #161 Ward Cleaver

Only 70 or so.

167 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:16:53pm

re: #156 Ward Cleaver

I wonder what changed him? JFK?

I think what changed him was coming into close contact with a lot of Republican politicians.

168 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:17:15pm

Uh oh.

169 Ford_Prefect  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:17:32pm

Good Afternoon Lizards!

Just a drive by post that has only a tangental relationship to the topic at hand.

I wanted to just wish everyone a safe and happy Memorial Day Weekend and leave you with this thought.

“It is the soldier, not the reporter who gives us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet who gives us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer who gives us freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.”
~ Father Dennis Edward O’Brien, Sergeant, USMC

170 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:17:37pm

re: #139 FurryOldGuyJeans

An "eye for an eye" is only going to make us all blind. Time for maturity to be dominant again instead of acting like spoiled brats.


I wasn't arguing FOR this, see my first comment. Just adding contrast.

171 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:17:38pm
172 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:17:47pm

re: #162 Dianna

Google informs me that Berkeley does, indeed, have an ROTC program. Several, in fact.

ROTC Programs at UC Berkeley

They just don't get much love there.

173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:17:55pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Only 75.

Well. I said "or so!"

174 LGoPs  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:18:13pm

Just heard some of Olberman's remarks on Cheney's speech and all I can say is that Olberman is as bad as Hitler Olberman.
His should become a household name for lunacy.

175 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:18:51pm

re: #150 Abu Kuffar

they really should

Oh, for pity's sake!

I don't like it. You don't like it. But they comply with the requirements for tax exempt status, and they won't lose it over this.

176 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:18:51pm

re: #159 alegrias

* * * * *
Falwell and Pat Robertson are both southern Virginia-based, not that they get a lot of press up here in Northern Jihadist Virginia.

I was only ribbing you. But Falwell's Moral Majority was a movement in the 1970s that had electoral impact when Reagan needed a boost.

I knew that...and I deserve a good ribbing

177 LGoPs  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:18:52pm

back later.

178 JamesWI  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:18:53pm

re: #137 albusteve

I've been out of town for a while....I didn't know he'd passed, or maybe I did and forgot...forgive me

Look up Christopher Hitchens on the various cable news networks after he died. Some of the best eulogies i've heard. I believe one of his last lines was along the lines of, he's so full of shit "if you gave the man an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox."

179 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:18:53pm

re: #172 Ward Cleaver

They just don't get much love there.

Being ROTC in Berkeley must be like SERES training in addition to regular ROTC training! The cadets get a two-fer!
/

180 lawhawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:12pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

I don't know about secularity, but the university is moving towards a singularity.

181 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:22pm

re: #80 gnargtharst

"What information do you have to indicate that the Democrat Club members "oppose" the founding dogma?"

I have no information whatsoever to indicate this. They may not. But if university leadership deems it so, regardless of whether they're loons or not, it's their choice.

"It appears they are pro-life - would be nice, would it not, for pro-life Dems to have a place?"

Pro-life Dems do have a place. Anywhere in the USA, utilizing their own property, or the property of others, at their consent.

I don't have an opinion on whether it would be "nice" for "pro-life" dems (sounds like the worst of both worlds to me) to "have a place".

This is strong language for me, not language I usually use.

You are a complete fucking moronic idiot, and rude, to boot.

A university is a place where young people learn. Booting out a group that wishes to do just that is a stupid move - legal perhaps, but completely stupid and ulitmately, divisive.

182 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:27pm

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As would most universities and colleges.

Yep.

183 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:28pm

re: #167 Charles

I think what changed him was coming into close contact with a lot of Republican politicians.

But years ago (in the '60s, anyway), they weren't that far apart, except on entitlement programs.

184 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:28pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Protecting freedom of religion is great and essential but doesn't imply protection for myriad other freedoms, see the EU or the very quote from Obama that I gave.
I retract China and Cuba, though, and apoligize for confusing secular with athiest, though that is not uncommon among athiests as well.

185 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:37pm

re: #111 alegrias

* * * *
Pres. Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan supposedly was behind banning ROTC at these schools, if I recall correctly, for don't-ask-don't-tell reasons.

Don't-ask-don't-tell is the ammunition the left loves shooting itself in the foot with.

186 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:19:38pm

re: #161 Ward Cleaver

Plus he was old.

hash smoke is hard on the lungs too

187 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:13pm

re: #158 gnargtharst

Talk of "purging" political parties just rubbed me the wrong way.

Try Milk of Magnesia.

188 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:20pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Berkeley still has a Young Republican branch on campus. They may get flack, but they are allowed to have an official club. I've never heard of Republicans simply getting shut down at a liberal campus. If it's happened, let me know so I can be appalled at them as well.

They are a public University. Different rules apply.

189 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:24pm
190 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:38pm

re: #157 Gus 802

I don't think so actually. I'd be willing to bet that if it wasn't for state and federal student aid programs that Liberty University would go bankrupt.

Find me a university that wouldn't. Really.

Some have huge endowments, but even they would sink pretty fast, I think.

191 Jetpilot1101  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:39pm

It saddens me greatly that Christianity has become more of hate the sin but hate the sinner more rather then what it's supposed to be: hate the sin but love the sinner. Intolerance is not a fruit of the Spirit but kindness and patience are. Maybe the folks at LU should pick up a Bible and read.

192 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:50pm

re: #165 Salamantis

No, but it refutes the implication that secular means dictatorship and religious means free. Theocracies are unfree. and Constitutional democratic republics (CDRs), such as the US, are both secular and free.


Nonsense. There was NO such implication. I was just saying that secular isn't equivalent to free, only a small but important subset of freedoms.

193 Catttt  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:50pm
194 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:58pm

re: #146 J.D.

He did not have help, if that's what you mean. Nope, went to sleep all by his lonesome.

195 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:20:59pm

re: #181 reine.de.tout

This is strong language for me, not language I usually use.

You are a complete fucking moronic idiot, and rude, to boot.

A university is a place where young people learn. Booting out a group that wishes to do just that is a stupid move - legal perhaps, but completely stupid and ulitmately, divisive.

Imbecile. You forgot imbecile. And obtuse. And dense.

196 medaura18586  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:21:06pm

re: #70 nikis-knight

"We can't drive our cars, set our thermostats to what we want, eat what we want, and expect other [people? nations? I forget exactly] to be okay with that."
Yeah, not so much with the protecting freedoms. China is certainly secular, is it not? Cuba?

Secularism is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the protection of individual rights by state institutions.

197 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:21:14pm

re: #111 alegrias

* * * *
Thank you--both candidates Obama and McCain agreed on the set of one debate that ROTC should be allowed on these hostile campuses which take federal research and other funds.

Pres. Obama's supreme court nominee Kagan supposedly was behind banning ROTC at these schools, if I recall correctly, for don't-ask-don't-tell reasons.

0bama already has a specific nominee? Where the hell have I been?

198 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #189 Iron Fist

Guerrilla warfare training. Swim in the sea of the People as a fish swims in the ocean...

Dealing with the constant smell of patchouli qualifies as chem warfare training.

199 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:21:48pm

Why is Jerry Falwell so newsworthy, anyway?
He doesn't speak for the majority of Christians.

200 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:21:52pm

re: #158 gnargtharst

This is the wrong day for that attitude.

201 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:20pm

re: #199 tradewind

Why is Jerry Falwell so newsworthy, anyway?
He doesn't speak for the majority of Christians.

Especially since he's dead.

202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:20pm

Will Liberty ask 0bama to do their Graduation address next year?

IIRC, our old pal, Ben Stein did it this year. I'm guessing, but, probably not very many Jews have had that honor.

203 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:28pm

re: #199 tradewind

Why is Jerry Falwell so newsworthy, anyway?
He doesn't speak for the majority of Christians.

He doesn't do a whole lot of speaking at all nowadays.

204 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:31pm

re: #196 medaura18586

Secularism is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the protection of individual rights by state institutions.

You are right, I phrased that poorly and would edit it if I could.

205 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #178 JamesWI

Look up Christopher Hitchens on the various cable news networks after he died. Some of the best eulogies i've heard. I believe one of his last lines was along the lines of, he's so full of shit "if you gave the man an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox."

I probably took a swipe or two at him myself...I don't dig preachers flying their Gulfstreams in a Brooks Bros suit...they should wear rags and crawl about imo

206 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:39pm

re: #158 gnargtharst

Talk of "purging" political parties just rubbed me the wrong way.

Accepting the truth is a bit hard to do at times.

207 Jetpilot1101  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:45pm

Got to go Lizards, see you all tonight. Happy memorial day!

208 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:22:50pm

re: #198 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

What is it about patchouli? It's kind of.... nauseating. Even in college, I never understood why anyone thought they smelled great doused in it......

209 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:13pm

re: #192 nikis-knight

Nonsense. There was NO such implication. I was just saying that secular isn't equivalent to free, only a small but important subset of freedoms.

Yeah. Like religious freedoms.

210 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:15pm

re: #199 tradewind

Why is Jerry Falwell so newsworthy, anyway?
He doesn't speak for the majority of Christians.

He doesn't speak at all, which I believe we have been pointing out.

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:17pm

re: #186 albusteve

What's with the "hash jokes". Was that in Hustler or something?

212 jcm  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:28pm

re: #158 gnargtharst

gnargtharst
(Logged in)
Registered since: Jan 11, 2005 at 10:20 am
No. of comments posted: 43
No. of links posted: 0

Might want to know where of you speak before making blanket comments.

213 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:40pm

re: #172 Ward Cleaver

They just don't get much love there.

I really wouldn't know. I'm almost never in Berkeley, these days.

214 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:46pm

re: #181 reine.de.tout

Whoa. Don't sugar coat it. Tell'em what you really think.

I've tried to curb my use of profanity--both here and in the rel world. But, sometimes...sometimes you have to bring out the big guns if for no other reason than emphasis.

215 yochanan  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:47pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

state enforced bans like in the commie states is a example of secular extremism.

216 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:48pm

re: #205 albusteve

they should wear rags and crawl about imo


Why?

217 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:23:52pm

re: #104 Ward Cleaver

Sam Donaldson's a Republican?

/ducking

No, he's a Romulan.

218 danrudy  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:24:02pm

The Democratic party has already purged the religious right so I don't find it suprising that they are doing the same.

219 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:24:05pm

re: #209 Salamantis

Yeah. Like religious freedoms.

yes, a lot like that. In fact, that.

220 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:24:42pm

re: #181 reine.de.tout

You are a complete fucking moronic idiot, and rude, to boot.

Normally polite people using strong language is usually a barometer for rarified idiocy. I'm turning on my IdiocyDetectorModule now.....

Oh, wow, that's a strong reading... over here... oh my.

221 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:24:52pm

re: #211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What's with the "hash jokes". Was that in Hustler or something?

what's Hustler?...are you trying to trap me in sin?

222 jcm  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:01pm

re: #207 Jetpilot1101

Got to go Lizards, see you all tonight. Happy memorial day!

Maintain thy airspeed lest the earth rise up and smite thee.

223 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:20pm

re: #213 Dianna

I really wouldn't know. I'm almost never in Berkeley, these days.

I've been there exactly once, back in the '80s. I thought it was nice town, even if it is moonbatty.

224 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #221 albusteve

what's Hustler?...are you trying to trap me in sin?

Could be worse... could be "Swank".

*shudder*

225 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:36pm

re: #217 CyanSnowHawk

Well, that explains his tortured logic.

226 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:40pm

re: #216 tradewind

Why?

to express resignation and humility?

227 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:46pm

re: #210 Truck Monkey

I haven't read upthread yet... just saw the headline.
If the Democrat club is the most subversive on campus, they don't have a lot to worry about. The list of registered groups at state universities nowdays boggles the mind.

228 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:54pm

re: #208 tradewind

What is it about patchouli? It's kind of.... nauseating. Even in college, I never understood why anyone thought they smelled great doused in it......

Probably masking something that smelled even worse...

229 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:25:56pm

Oooh, Miles Davis. Cool.

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:26:08pm

re: #221 albusteve

what's Hustler?...are you trying to trap me in sin?

Grab your hats...Larry Flynt on Falwell...

"My mother always told me that no matter how much you dislike a person, when you meet them face to face you will find characteristics about them that you like. Jerry Falwell was a perfect example of that. I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends. He would visit me in California and we would debate together on college campuses. I always appreciated his sincerity even though I knew what he was selling and he knew what I was selling." - Larry Flynt

231 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:26:23pm

re: #218 danrudy

The Democratic party has already purged the religious right so I don't find it suprising that they are doing the same.

Does tit for tat even remotely sync with "turn the other cheek"?

It doesn't matter one whit what the Dems and Libs do. What matters is what a supposedly Conservative organization is willing to do to promote liberty.

232 MacDuff  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:26:37pm

re: #217 CyanSnowHawk

No, he's a Romulan.

Yeah, he's too stupid to be Vulcan.

233 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:26:46pm

re: #199 tradewind

Why is Jerry Falwell so newsworthy, anyway?
He doesn't speak for the majority of Christians.

He's not anything, anymore, except dead. He passed away some time ago.

234 ConservatismNow!  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:26:53pm

re: #228 Fenway_Nation

Like the dreadlocks? Or the hemp...um...hemp everything? The smell of weed?

235 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:03pm

re: #226 albusteve

Your example seems to express neither, IMO.
But whatev.

236 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:03pm

re: #214 calcajun

I've used several wordy-dirds this week. Sorry.

237 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:19pm

re: #229 Ward Cleaver

Oooh, Miles Davis. Cool.

Kinda Blue, though.

238 Catttt  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:19pm

re: #158 gnargtharst

Fourth, it was my impression, before I started posting here recently, that our esteemed moderator was more polite.

It's not about Charles. To quote the Shirelles, baby, it's you.

239 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:27pm

re: #181 reine.de.tout

"This is strong language..."

"You are a complete fucking moronic idiot, and rude, to boot."

Didn't intend to be rude. Was merely pointing out that I had no knowledge about the Liberty University Democrats' idealogical lockstep with Falwell.

"A university is a place where young people learn..."

240 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:27pm

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

heh...good snag...I guess I'm more like Larry than Jerry

241 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:28pm

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Odd- to say the least.

242 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:31pm

re: #221 albusteve

what's Hustler?...are you trying to trap me in sin?

I think Paul Newman (PBUH) played the Huslter opposite Jackie Gleason in a 1961 movie of the same name.

243 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:35pm

re: #190 Dianna

Find me a university that wouldn't. Really.

Some have huge endowments, but even they would sink pretty fast, I think.

Correct. My argument is that Liberty University is not 100% private and relies heavily on government student loans, grants, and scholarships in addition to relying on public infrastructure.

244 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:27:44pm

re: #215 yochanan

state enforced bans like in the commie states is a example of secular extremism.

No, that's atheistic states. Secular states don't entangle themselves with either religion or with the lack of it.

245 yochanan  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:28:06pm

frankly i would not fit in falwals place anymore than i fit in leftist universities i went to grad school in the late 90's even though i didn't think of myself as a republican i was still to the right of center esp for a art dept.

246 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:28:18pm

re: #233 Dianna

That's how much I didn't know what he was about... I completely forgot that he had passed on.

247 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:28:44pm

re: #234 ConservatismNow!

Like the dreadlocks? Or the hemp...um...hemp everything? The smell of weed?

I love the smell of weed in the morning. It's like...you know..weed, but in the morning.///

248 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:28:52pm

re: #242 Truck Monkey

I think Paul Newman (PBUH) played the Huslter opposite Jackie Gleason in a 1961 movie of the same name.

Minnesota Fats...great movie

249 justabill  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:28:56pm

re: #181 reine.de.tout

This is strong language for me, not language I usually use.

You are a complete fucking moronic idiot, and rude, to boot.

A university is a place where young people learn. Booting out a group that wishes to do just that is a stupid move - legal perhaps, but completely stupid and ulitmately, divisive.

I think the distinction needs to be made between right and wrong vs legal and illegal. As a private university, they can legally expel or otherwise discipline their students for all but a couple reasons(race for example). That being said IMO it would be wrong for them to do such.

In otherwords, they have the right to take such action, but it doesn't make it right...

250 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:06pm

re: #247 calcajun

I love the smell of weed in the morning. It's like...you know..weed, but in the morning.///

Wake & bake, man.

251 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:06pm

re: #195 Salamantis

Imbecile. You forgot imbecile. And obtuse. And dense.

Sorry, Sala - I'm not used to being quite that blunt.

252 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:22pm

re: #247 calcajun

I love the smell of weed in the morning. It's like...you know..weed, but in the morning.///

Wake and bake.

//

253 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:23pm

re: #227 tradewind

I haven't read upthread yet... just saw the headline.
If the Democrat club is the most subversive on campus, they don't have a lot to worry about. The list of registered groups at state universities nowdays boggles the mind.

Hmm, yes, that brings to mind some radical anti-jewish Islamic groups I've heard demonstrate around the corner from me at UCI.

254 gander  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:34pm

Stupid is as stupid does.

255 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:44pm

Polarization is a bitch, especially when only one side is doing it.

256 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:47pm

re: #235 tradewind

Your example seems to express neither, IMO.
But whatev.

I'm irreverent sometimes and this is one of those times

257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:51pm

re: #250 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Wake & bake, man.

I prefer "wake and cake!"

258 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:29:59pm

re: #250 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Wake & bake, man.

re: #252 Gus 802

Wake and bake.

//

Dude, get out of my head!

259 ConservatismNow!  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:01pm

re: #252 Gus 802

Wake and bake.

//

Far out, man. Far out.

260 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:03pm

re: #218 danrudy

The Democratic party has already purged the religious right so I don't find it suprising that they are doing the same.

Yeah let's just have both sides of the political spectrum curtailing our rights under the 1st Amendment. That's a great idea! ///////
and if you missed the sarc tag ///////////////////////////////////

261 jvic  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:25pm

If I were the DNC or the House leadership, I'd send that story to every single Blue Dog Democrat.

Note also that the president of the Democratic Club has a Hispanic surname.

Two birds with one stone. Why stop there?

262 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:28pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Correct. My argument is that Liberty University is not 100% private and relies heavily on government student loans, grants, and scholarships in addition to relying on public infrastructure.

It's still a private institution, so your point - while technically accurate - is essentially irrelevant.

263 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:29pm

re: #251 reine.de.tout

Sorry, Sala - I'm not used to being quite that blunt.

I didn't see blunt. I saw scalpel sharp used with deft precision to flay idiocy.

264 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:38pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Correct. My argument is that Liberty University is not 100% private and relies heavily on government student loans, grants, and scholarships in addition to relying on public infrastructure.

I'm in the field, and it's shocking to me that they are allowed to use Title IV funds. Same thing with Bob Jones University - it blows my mind.

265 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:50pm

Oh man, I've got the munchies

266 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:30:54pm

re: #247 calcajun

I love the smell of weed in the morning. It's like...you know..weed, but in the morning.///

I just had a flashback to the '90s. What a "wasted" decade for me. So glad I snapped out of it.

/yeah, yeah, I know, it explains a lot about me...

267 Honorary Yooper  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:31:11pm

re: #218 danrudy

The Democratic party has already purged the religious right so I don't find it suprising that they are doing the same.

Purged them? There are members of the Dems who have openly embraced them in the past. In fact one might say that the Radical Religious Right has been engaging in entryism (see the thread yesterday) in the Republican Party for the past 35 years. Before that, many of them were Democrats (see Dayton, TN, and the Scopes Monkey Trial).

If they were purged, they purged themselves, no one purged them.

268 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:31:13pm

re: #247 calcajun

I love the smell of weed in the morning. It's like...you know..weed, but in the morning.///

Hey, man, like, doesn't that mean you stayed up all night?
Cause who would get up before noon, man?
/Cheech and Chong mode off

269 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:31:29pm

re: #253 nikis-knight

Yep. You got everything from your transgender liberation society to the Palestinian Homeland Now! bunch at the big universities.
And some places don't want ROTC.
Go figure.

270 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:31:47pm

re: #236 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No problem. Sometimes, you have to run out the metaphorical guns. What gets old is people who use profanity (outside of a Scorsese film or Mamet play) as punctuation.

271 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:01pm

re: #265 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Oh man, I've got the munchies

contact buzz?

272 MacDuff  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:06pm

re: #265 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Oh man, I've got the munchies

I got Doritos, man. Nacho cheese flavor!

273 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:10pm

re: #242 Truck Monkey

I think Paul Newman (PBUH) played the Huslter opposite Jackie Gleason in a 1961 movie of the same name.

Jackie Gleason played Minnesota Fats & Newman played Fast Eddie.
I always thought that the Hustler referred to Fats, but could be wrong.
"You don't leave much Fat Man."

274 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:14pm

re: #240 albusteve

Heh....Larry and Jerry. That could make a good sitcom.

[Odd couple theme playing as the voiceover guy speaks up]

He's a parapaliegic smut magnate

He's an arrogant overbearing evangelist

They both have the same accountant who's embezzeled their fortunes and has skipped the country. Now they have to share an apartment to make ends meet. This fall on NBC, it's Larry and Jerry!]

275 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:21pm

re: #223 Ward Cleaver

I've been there exactly once, back in the '80s. I thought it was nice town, even if it is moonbatty.

Bast hole in the wall calzone and Spengers is the best fish restaurant there is. I've been working and just popped back in, man tensions are running high today.

276 yochanan  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:33pm

re: #259 ConservatismNow!

Far out, man. Far out.

alice b. toklas brownies/ gay fressen.

277 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:37pm

re: #271 albusteve

contact buzz?

He should be here, he posted not long ago...

/smartass off.

278 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:46pm

re: #263 FurryOldGuyJeans

I think there was a different toke take on blunt meant there.

279 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:32:47pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Correct. My argument is that Liberty University is not 100% private and relies heavily on government student loans, grants, and scholarships in addition to relying on public infrastructure.

I don't see why accepting federal aid on the students behalf counts as being publicly funded?

280 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:33:16pm

re: #45 solomonpanting

All right, then. But, if you change your mind, try to research Democrats at that time who happened to be Jewish and include them in your presentation!

Jewish Democrats in the 1860's tended to be slaveowners like Judah P. Benjamin. I'm sure that would go over real well with them, maybe too well.

281 lawhawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:33:28pm

re: #273 opnion

Paul Newman essentially played both roles - first against Gleason, and then as Tom Cruise's mentor in the Color of Money.

282 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:33:48pm

re: #275 turn

Bast hole in the wall calzone and Spengers is the best fish restaurant there is. I've been working and just popped back in, man tensions are running high today.

Spenger's has fallen. We had a bar-fly dinner there, once, with a visiting writer, and all the fish-eaters (I don't care for fish) expressed deep disappointment.

283 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:33:50pm

re: #262 Dianna

It's still a private institution, so your point - while technically accurate - is essentially irrelevant.

It is both relevant and technically accurate. If they were to truly be a 100% private institution they would refuse the federal funding which they indeed benefit from. The tax payer is footing the bill for this charade.

284 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:34:12pm

re: #270 calcajun

No problem. Sometimes, you have to run out the metaphorical guns. What gets old is people who use profanity (outside of a Scorsese film or Mamet play) as punctuation.

I agree with you *fuck*

285 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:34:20pm

re: #274 Fenway_Nation

Heh....Larry and Jerry. That could make a good sitcom.

I like the other Larry and Jerry better.
---
Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle

286 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:34:24pm

re: #191 Jetpilot1101

It saddens me greatly that Christianity has become more of hate the sin but hate the sinner more rather then what it's supposed to be: hate the sin but love the sinner.

I wouldn't say that at all. The vast majority of Christians, at least the ones that I know, are of the 'hate the sin but love the sinner' variety, but they tend not to make the news on a regular basis. It's easy to see a molester on every street corner when you see in the news every day that somewhere in your nation a child was molested.

287 subsailor68  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:35:34pm

Well all, must go. It's been great fun, and I wish everyone here a wonderful weekend, and a great Memorial Day!

288 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:35:50pm

re: #265 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Oh man, I've got the munchies

Dude, want to borrow my visine?

289 yochanan  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:13pm

re: #284 Spare O'Lake

i remember seeing a vedio were they use the 'f' word as every type of word, noun, verb etc.

290 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:24pm

re: #273 opnion

Jackie Gleason played Minnesota Fats & Newman played Fast Eddie.
I always thought that the Hustler referred to Fats, but could be wrong.
"You don't leave much Fat Man."

Fast Eddy Felson was actually a great pool player, far better than Fats, who was a brash, loudmouthed showman....they were rivals I believe, but I could be wrong...it's all a great story tho as I (can't) recall

291 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:27pm

re: #275 turn

Bast hole in the wall calzone and Spengers is the best fish restaurant there is. I've been working and just popped back in, man tensions are running high today.

My sister was married at the Claremont Resort, which is what took me to Berserkley. A kick-ass view across the bay, toward the city.

292 phillies2008  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:42pm

Are they that afraid a few Democrats are going to turn the rest of the student body into gay abortionists who believe in evolution?

293 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:49pm

re: #266 MrSilverDragon

I just had a flashback to the '90s. What a "wasted" decade for me. So glad I snapped out of it.

/yeah, yeah, I know, it explains a lot about me...

70's

294 danrudy  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:56pm

re: #231 FurryOldGuyJeans

turn the other cheek?
I dont pretend to know much about this university but I am assuming that their goal is to promote christian values.
If they feel that the democratic party is adopting platforms that are at odds with what wish to promote I suppose they have the right to restrict whatever they want to on their private property. I liken this to Charles having the right to restrict or ban folks who get unruly, hijack threads or are using these forums for ends other then which they are intended.
If its your playground you get to have say in the rules.

295 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:36:58pm

re: #281 lawhawk

Paul Newman essentially played both roles - first against Gleason, and then as Tom Cruise's mentor in the Color of Money.

Yeah, the interesting thing about the Hustler is that Gleason did his own shots. He could really shoot some pool.

296 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:37:01pm

re: #283 Gus 802

It is both relevant and technically accurate. If they were to truly be a 100% private institution they would refuse the federal funding which they indeed benefit from. The tax payer is footing the bill for this charade.

Oh, dear.

Look, absolutism is a wonderful thing, but please keep it in its place. The funding goes to the students, then the university. This applies to pretty much every university I'm aware of.

I would look closely at the qualifications of anyone who had a diploma from Liberty University; particularly if I was thinking of admitting that person to a medical school. But your point is, really, truly, completely irrelevant.

297 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:37:16pm

re: #274 Fenway_Nation

Heh....Larry and Jerry. That could make a good sitcom.

write it up and send it in!

298 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:37:35pm

re: #167 Charles

He became a ' journalist '. It was a prerequisite for the gig.

299 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:37:58pm

re: #284 Spare O'Lake

This is the Beethoven's 9th of profanity: (warning--excessive but almost musical use of the f-word)

300 Egregious Philbin  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:37:58pm

Talibornagains

Get some burkha's on those co-ed's, I saw a bit of an ankle showing, in broad daylight!

301 Zimriel  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:00pm

I don't like this. I could easily see a moonbat private institution (Oberlin comes immediately to mind) booting out its Republican Party, while citing this as precedent.

And thanks to the Republicans these days, they could easily fish out an excuse: Michelle Bachmann, Ron Paul, etc etc.

302 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:08pm

this whole thing isn't surprising really. The left has been hostile for years against the right on public and a lot of private campuses. it's just now the right are doing the same the the left have been getting away with for so long.

I'm not saying it'sa good thing. just not really any suprise

303 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:17pm

Afternoon all. I heard this on the news on my way to work this morning - my first thought being "well that's dumb". I still find this decision to be dumb - moronic even. It may be their right as a private institution, but that doesn't take away the dumb factor.

304 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:29pm

re: #290 albusteve

Fast Eddy Felson was actually a great pool player, far better than Fats, who was a brash, loudmouthed showman....they were rivals I believe, but I could be wrong...it's all a great story tho as I (can't) recall

Great movie.

305 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:30pm

re: #264 Guanxi88

I'm in the field, and it's shocking to me that they are allowed to use Title IV funds. Same thing with Bob Jones University - it blows my mind.

Higher education is a massive industry. Liberty University and Bob Jones University both promote themselves as private and not subject to public policy while at the same time taking in public funding.

306 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:41pm

re: #295 opnion

Yeah, the interesting thing about the Hustler is that Gleason did his own shots. He could really shoot some pool.

Gleason should have made more movies...he was a huge talent imo

307 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:45pm

re: #292 phillies2008

Are they that afraid a few Democrats are going to turn the rest of the student body into gay abortionists who believe in evolution?

The Democrats on that campus are probably more like Scoop Jackson type Democrats.

308 Kragar  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:38:58pm

re: #289 yochanan

i remember seeing a vedio were they use the 'f' word as every type of word, noun, verb etc.

As in "Go f***ing f*** yourself, you f***ing fat f***ing f***er."

309 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:39:01pm

re: #296 Dianna

Oh, dear.

Look, absolutism is a wonderful thing, but please keep it in its place. The funding goes to the students, then the university. This applies to pretty much every university I'm aware of.

I would look closely at the qualifications of anyone who had a diploma from Liberty University; particularly if I was thinking of admitting that person to a medical school. But your point is, really, truly, completely irrelevant.

We disagree. Let's agree to disagree. ;)

310 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:39:33pm

I gotta go too. Everyone have a great long weekend. Remember too why we have Monday off. I salute all those who gave all so that me and mine could live in peace and prosperity. A debt that can never be repaid. Thank you also to those who are serving and have served.

311 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:39:48pm

re: #279 nikis-knight

I don't see why accepting federal aid on the students behalf counts as being publicly funded?

Access to these funding sources is, in effect, the use of taxpayer dollars (in the form of guarantees and such for loans, and in the form of direct dollars, for federal grants). Purely religious institutions generally do not have access to these funds, so as to avoid state support of religion. The introduction of ideological purity tests for student groups is one big step toward the creation of fully-fledged ideological academies funded by the state. Very dangerous, indeed.

312 lawhawk  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:40:00pm

re: #295 opnion

He was a legend in NYC area pool halls, particularly in Brooklyn where he hustled halls regularly.

313 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:40:14pm

re: #25 FurryOldGuyJeans

I thought "fundies" were underwear for two.

314 danrudy  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:40:28pm

re: #267 Honorary Yooper

I was trying to be succintly dramatic... My point was that they have adopted many platforms as policy that are at direct odds with their religious beliefs and look upon them as "goofs" and crazy fanatics same beliefs.

315 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:40:30pm

Plus, most kids this age trend toward being liberal - not all, but most. Sometimes it takes a bit of growing up - and a real paycheck - to discover you are a conservative after all.

316 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:40:39pm

re: #294 danrudy

What LU did may be perfectly legal, but does that make it moral or correct?

317 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:41:03pm

re: #313 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have a story about this...on second thought...

318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:41:18pm

re: #306 albusteve

"Nothing in Common" broke my heart.

319 pingjockey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:41:19pm

What a crock! So is the new repub party mantra..if you aren't a Christian, IDer, YECer ya can't be a repub. What the fuck kind of nonsense is this?

320 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:41:26pm

re: #305 Gus 802

Higher education is a massive industry. Liberty University and Bob Jones University both promote themselves as private and not subject to public policy while at the same time taking in public funding.

Prevaricating out of both sides of their mouth. Not to be crude, but would that count as glossolalia?

321 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:41:36pm

re: #282 Dianna

Spenger's has fallen. We had a bar-fly dinner there, once, with a visiting writer, and all the fish-eaters (I don't care for fish) expressed deep disappointment.

Really? The turnwife and I had dinner there on our way back from China and it was the same old great food. Plus the ambiance. When I was a kid we ate there quite often because the family would come down and stay the weekend with the gay uncle who lived there. Is there something better in that area? btw on your post upthread about not a good day to say that I almost replied "I'll say".

322 Kenneth  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:42:32pm
323 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:42:48pm

re: #318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Nothing in Common" broke my heart.

easy...it's only a movie

324 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:42:56pm

re: #292 phillies2008

Are they that afraid a few Democrats are going to turn the rest of the student body into gay abortionists who believe in evolution?

To them, tolerance is a virus; they think it best that the student body not be exposed to it until their fundamentalist immunization builds up enough antibodies.

325 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:04pm

re: #301 Zimriel

I don't like this. I could easily see a moonbat private institution (Oberlin comes immediately to mind) booting out its Republican Party, while citing this as precedent.

And thanks to the Republicans these days, they could easily fish out an excuse: Michelle Bachmann, Ron Paul, etc etc.

Let them. Again, we don't have to like it. But...there is no bar to them doing so, nor should there be. re: #320 Guanxi88

Prevaricating out of both sides of their mouth. Not to be crude, but would that count as glossolalia?

Oh, very good!

326 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:11pm

re: #306 albusteve

Gleason should have made more movies...he was a huge talent imo

The guy was a Renaissance man. He did comedy, acted, wrote & played music. A real talent & a world class pool player.

327 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:13pm

re: #311 Guanxi88

bah. By that tortured logic, a grocery store that takes food stamps is accepting public funds, or if my friend on welfare paid for gas after I gave him a ride to a job interview, I'm accepting public funds and everything I do reflects on the taxpayer.

I'm generally against these endless student loans and grants because they contribute to the spiral of tuition increases, but just taking them doesn't make one an agent of the feds.
(full disclosure, I took them when offered when younger)

328 denverbiblio  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:14pm

re: #24 Ward Cleaver

I was waiting to see a post about the rampant irony here in the school's name. It was the first thing that came to mind.

329 boogereatinmoron  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:20pm

re: #167 Charles

Do you think he ever met a Democrat?

330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:20pm

re: #317 ArmyWife

I have a story about this...on second thought...

wink wink nudge nudge

331 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:23pm

re: #319 pingjockey

Hold the trolley. This wasn't initiated by the RNC, the University made this blindingly stupid decision all on their own.

Now I shall wait for the RNC to step up and say "Guys, seriously, this isn't what our party stands for". Michael? Looking at you again. Remember me?

332 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:39pm

re: #315 ArmyWife

Plus, most kids this age trend toward being liberal - not all, but most. Sometimes it takes a bit of growing up - and a real paycheck - to discover you are a conservative after all.

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

333 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:48pm

I have never been sealed up inside an envelope that did not need some serious pushing.

334 Salamantis  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:49pm

re: #295 opnion

Yeah, the interesting thing about the Hustler is that Gleason did his own shots. He could really shoot some pool.

So, apparently, could Tom Cruise.

335 danrudy  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:43:54pm

re: #316 FurryOldGuyJeans

No...I dont think it is correct. I would have decided differently.
As sickened as I am at all those liberal schools in California and Canada having vocal in your face anti-semetic Muslim student organizations I don't think I would advocate banning them. But, if a school chose to do so I don't think I would be suprised or shed to many tears

336 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:44:02pm

re: #316 FurryOldGuyJeans

What LU did may be perfectly legal, but does that make it moral or correct?

Like I said upthread, if the club had been around for decades, it would have been more understandable (at least looking at it from their point of view), but since they just recognized them in October, it really makes them look stupid. It's not like LU didn't know the national party stood for, in October.

337 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:44:31pm

re: #312 lawhawk

He was a legend in NYC area pool halls, particularly in Brooklyn where he hustled halls regularly.

Oh yeah, he had a stroke.

338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:44:40pm

re: #334 Salamantis

So, apparently, could Tom Cruise.

Pool players move amazingly fast, easy to use a double.
/

339 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:44:41pm

re: #320 Guanxi88

Prevaricating out of both sides of their mouth. Not to be crude, but would that count as glossolalia?

I had to look glossolalia up. "Speaking in tongues?" No doubt.

This reminds me of football and baseball stadium which are publicly funded. Airports are another big source of government assistance.

340 pingjockey  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:45:10pm

re: #331 ArmyWife
Yeah. I could have phrased that better. What kind of message does this send about 'tolerance' or opposing points of view. Sheesh.

341 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:45:15pm

re: #327 nikis-knight

bah. By that tortured logic, a grocery store that takes food stamps is accepting public funds, or if my friend on welfare paid for gas after I gave him a ride to a job interview, I'm accepting public funds and everything I do reflects on the taxpayer.

I'm generally against these endless student loans and grants because they contribute to the spiral of tuition increases, but just taking them doesn't make one an agent of the feds.
(full disclosure, I took them when offered when younger)

Ahh, but the grocery store isn't purging the ideologically questionable, nor is it making representations to the Dept. of Ed. (or, in this case, Agriculture) that is an ideologically and religiously neutral institution in its policies.

342 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:45:23pm

re: #291 Ward Cleaver

My sister was married at the Claremont Resort, which is what took me to Berserkley. A kick-ass view across the bay, toward the city.

Yes very pretty. Hey you ever hear of this? darn couldn't find a link. My uncle was a rock hound and took me to a quarry somewhere in Berkley hills when I was a kid to show me the only place in the world you could find this really cool looking rock, he called it Berkley Blue.

343 Kragar  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:46:46pm

re: #332 callahan23

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

I've either always been a heartless bastard or ahead of the curve

344 Honorary Yooper  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:46:49pm

re: #299 calcajun

Ah yes. The movie is based, loosely, on the Chicago Outfit. Pesci's character was based on Anthony Spilotro. Recently, Outfit boss James Marcello was found guilty of the murders of Spilotro and his brother, as part of the Operation Family Secrets trial.

345 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:47:04pm

re: #341 Guanxi88

nor is it making representations to the Dept. of Ed. (or, in this case, Agriculture) that is an ideologically and religiously neutral institution in its policies.

It wouldn't matter, because they aren't accepting funds from the government, but the funds that the government has given to customers. Read my post more carefully...

346 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:47:16pm
347 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:47:36pm

When Falwell founded Liberty University, he said that he would have a football program that would beat Notre Dame. ND has fallen on hard times but come on.

348 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:47:43pm

re: #332 callahan23

I must confess my conservative roots run deep - I've NEVER been a Dem or liberal. I owe that to my family's long military history. But I am the outlier. I do take a greater interest in the tax issues now that I used too - does that count?

349 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:48:50pm

re: #332 callahan23

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

Winston Churchill paraphrase?

350 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:49:37pm

re: #345 nikis-knight

It wouldn't matter, because they aren't accepting funds from the government, but the funds that the government has given to customers. Read my post more carefully...

Look, I'm in the field, and student access to the use of these funds is the functional and practical equivalent of direct transfers to the institution. The proceeds are wired directly to the school in every case, and the criteria for eligibility for your students to receive such funding require at least the appearance of neutrality in certain controversial matters. In the case of politics, purging a student version of a national party from your campus removes all appearance of neutrality. Harvard should have Title IV yanked for its resistance to ROTC, and LU should have its PPA nulled or suspended until they reverse the Democrat ban.

351 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:49:50pm

re: #335 danrudy

No...I dont think it is correct. I would have decided differently.
As sickened as I am at all those liberal schools in California and Canada having vocal in your face anti-semetic Muslim student organizations I don't think I would advocate banning them. But, if a school chose to do so I don't think I would be suprised or shed to many tears

I don't give a rat's ass about all the other colleges and universities and what they do and have done. Returning evil for evil done is not a good or moral thing. And restricting free speech is inherently evil.

Speech codes, no matter who enacts them, is censorship and antithetical to Democracy.

352 ConservatismNow!  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:49:57pm

re: #343 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've either always been a heartless bastard or ahead of the curve

Me too.

353 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:50:27pm
354 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:50:29pm

re: #341 Guanxi88

Ahh, but the grocery store isn't purging the ideologically questionable, nor is it making representations to the Dept. of Ed. (or, in this case, Agriculture) that is an ideologically and religiously neutral institution in its policies.

Also, that grocery store has to abide by the rules regarding the receipt of food stamps. Break those rules and you get a large fine and the loss of being licensed to receive said food stamps. In some locations a grocery store would rely on retaining that license intact and legal. I could only imagine a grocer refusing food stamps from Democrats.

355 quickjustice  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:50:45pm

The University Adminstrators are living a fantasy, i.e., "Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world without Democrats?" Anyone who can't engage a Democrat, or a Republican for that matter, in spirited, principled, and civil debate doesn't belong in college. In fact, isn't that a skill they're supposed to teach in college?

356 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:51:53pm

re: #350 Guanxi88

Look, I'm in the field, and student access to the use of these funds is the functional and practical equivalent of direct transfers to the institution. The proceeds are wired directly to the school in every case, and the criteria for eligibility for your students to receive such funding require at least the appearance of neutrality in certain controversial matters. In the case of politics, purging a student version of a national party from your campus removes all appearance of neutrality. Harvard should have Title IV yanked for its resistance to ROTC, and LU should have its PPA nulled or suspended until they reverse the Democrat ban.

There you go. It cuts both ways.

357 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:52:39pm

re: #343 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've either always been a heartless bastard or ahead of the curve

This was a quote made by a professor of mine who was looking straight ahead in the direction of his moonbat colleague some 20 yards away.

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

YOU (Kragar) are just fine.

358 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:52:41pm

Ok, let's get something straight here. Liberty is a private university and they have the right to do this in the sense that they cannot be jailed or shut down for it. That does not give them immunity to public criticism and comment, unless, of course, they want to retire behind a high wall and stop commenting on public issues themselves.
Among other things, this is a public issue because LU is actively recruiting students all over the world and parents have a right to know what their real policies are.

359 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:52:42pm

re: #356 Gus 802

There you go. It cuts both ways.

Of course it does, or rather, should. Problem is, nobody's got the 'nads to do what the regs require.

360 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:52:50pm
361 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:53:00pm

re: #350 Guanxi88

Well, thanks for explaining it more clearly then. I agree that this makes the use of these funds probably illegal given the stipulations on them that you outlined.
I have heard it said that a college taking gov't scholarships is taking federal funds before, and I still disagree that that is an entirely accurate way of describing it, but the situation is clearly more complicated then I made it out to be above.

362 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:53:09pm

re: #342 turn

Yes very pretty. Hey you ever hear of this? darn couldn't find a link. My uncle was a rock hound and took me to a quarry somewhere in Berkley hills when I was a kid to show me the only place in the world you could find this really cool looking rock, he called it Berkley Blue.

Nope, never heard of that rock. When I was out there, they had just reopened the Caldecott Tunnel. It had been closed after a collision between a car and a gasoline tanker truck. I liked that drive on 24.

I also have a picture of Howard Hughes' Glomar Explorer, that I took on that trip. It was anchored in Suisun Bay, near the 680 bridge in Benicia.

363 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:53:12pm

re: #340 pingjockey

I'm not going to criticize your phrasing. I've been known to post some doozies! Being from the "no big tent" camp as we ought to have core principles in for which we stand "tolerance" puts me on edge. Perhaps because the left has bastardized the word. Don't care if you are gay, but don't force your lifestyle on me, don't care if you are a creationist, but don't force that on me, don't care if you are religious, but don't force it on me...does that make me intolerant?

by the way, the Republicans are having a time with the concept of "core principles" and are making very bad choices as to what those should be.

364 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:53:25pm

My niece will be graduating high school this year. She'll have plenty of liberty out here. The only "unfaithful" are the marching in place Falwell types afraid to use their minds. Let it spin, baby!

For the Class of '09

A Commencement Gift

From darkness to light,
On life's pathway you go,
Endowed with a gift -
Heart and mind - yo and yo.

Carrying the pair,
Top-bottom, right-left,
Uniting them on an axis
In a spark of consciousness.

Many are content,
While others quest for a string,
Knowing the position,
Yet not understanding the thing.

Misguided perceptions,
Unwound and undone,
Simple motion produces
A mere pendulum.

But the Enlightened apply
True, rotational spin,
Allowing their gift
A way to ascend.

Break earthly bonds,
And the levels you find
Are limited only
By the source of your line.

So, carry both halves,
Or assemble the parts,
Or swing on a string,
Or spiral toward stars.

The choices are yours.

- Kreuzueber Halbmond

365 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:53:52pm

re: #347 opnion

We can all dream.

366 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:54:05pm

re: #347 opnion

When Falwell founded Liberty University, he said that he would have a football program that would beat Notre Dame. ND has fallen on hard times but come on.

I think a girl's 7-and-under powderpuff team could take Notre Dame.

It wasn't that long ago that they were considered legit rivals of USC. Now they're too scared to even take on Boston College.

367 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:54:16pm

re: #359 Guanxi88

Of course it does, or rather, should. Problem is, nobody's got the 'nads to do what the regs require.

Yeah, "the shoulds" and reality are usually two distinct ideas. This does expose them to that potential. For now it seems to be an ethical question.

368 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:55:27pm

re: #361 nikis-knight

Well, thanks for explaining it more clearly then. I agree that this makes the use of these funds probably illegal given the stipulations on them that you outlined.
I have heard it said that a college taking gov't scholarships is taking federal funds before, and I still disagree that that is an entirely accurate way of describing it, but the situation is clearly more complicated then I made it out to be above.

You oughta see the hoops you have to jump through just to be considered an eligible institution. You'd better have all your ducks in a row before you even start to do an application for a PPA. And then once you do, these guys are all over you.

369 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:55:37pm

re: #339 Gus 802

I had to look glossolalia up. "Speaking in tongues?" No doubt.

This reminds me of football and baseball stadium which are publicly funded. Airports are another big source of government assistance.

Not all. Fenway Park and Gillette Field have had minimal public funding, mostly for road and train station improvements.
And that hasn't exactly hurt the Red Sox and the Patriots.

370 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:56:36pm

re: #369 Kosh's Shadow

Not all. Fenway Park and Gillette Field have had minimal public funding, mostly for road and train station improvements.
And that hasn't exactly hurt the Red Sox and the Patriots.

Right. It's not an "absolute."

371 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:57:09pm

re: #332 callahan23

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

re: #349 Spare O'Lake

Winston Churchill paraphrase?

[Link: thinkexist.com...]

372 SixDegrees  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:57:31pm

re: #21 Alouette

I'm invited to give a presentation at LU next year. They invited me a year ago, and at first I declined because it was on a Saturday, then they called me back saying they would change the schedule to accommodate me, so I accepted.

I am having regrets and want to cancel, I think I will opt out for health reasons.

If you are having second thoughts because of this odious action, it would be far, far better for everyone if you opted out for honest reasons by letting them know how you feel about this.

373 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:57:41pm

re: #367 Gus 802

Yeah, "the shoulds" and reality are usually two distinct ideas. This does expose them to that potential. For now it seems to be an ethical question.

Miller's Crossing, opening scene. Classic dialog.

374 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:58:01pm

re: #362 Ward Cleaver

I remember that fire, it had traffic in a mess for quite a while down there. I don't remember the Explorer being down there, I saw it and the Queen Mary in Long Beach years ago. I remember that one of engine on the Explorer had more horsepower than the Queen Mary. wow

375 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:58:06pm

Dear Jerry: Our daughter started college a year ago, and we’ve noticed during her visits home that she’s not the sweet, innocent girl we sent away for higher learning. We raised her with strong conservative beliefs, but lately she’s saying that she’s joined the campus Democrats and is questioning everything we taught her. Now my husband refuses to let her in the house and is threatening to turn her in to the FBI. I’ve tried to cure our daughter and reconcile with her, but nothing seems to work. I’ve prayed over her at night while she sleeps, enlisted friends in a phone prayer tree and even spoken to my priest about the possibility of an exorcism. I’m at my wits’ end. How can I recover my daughter and keep her from hell? — God-fearing

376 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:58:54pm

re: #348 ArmyWife

I must confess my conservative roots run deep - I've NEVER been a Dem or liberal. I owe that to my family's long military history. But I am the outlier. I do take a greater interest in the tax issues now that I used too - does that count?

I always interpreted the first sentence to refer to the idealism and energy of the young not necessarily their political preference. As I myself never indulged in that kumbaja liberal/socialist kind of thinking.

---When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.---

377 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:59:10pm

re: #365 ArmyWife

We can all dream.

I suppose, but Libertys athletic program nevr really took off.
I also found ita little odd that Falwell chose the nations premire Catholic institution to target.

378 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 1:59:23pm

re: #373 Guanxi88

Miller's Crossing, opening scene. Classic dialog.

Is their a video clip around? Or a script.

379 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:00:17pm

re: #374 turn

I remember that fire, it had traffic in a mess for quite a while down there. I don't remember the Explorer being down there, I saw it and the Queen Mary in Long Beach years ago. I remember that one of engine on the Explorer had more horsepower than the Queen Mary. wow

I just remember seeing it and thinking, "Holy shit, that's really it!" So, I had to get a picture.

380 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:00:52pm

re: #377 opnion

I suppose, but Libertys athletic program nevr really took off.
I also found ita little odd that Falwell chose the nations premire Catholic institution to target.

You saying the Deity is not an athletic supporter? ;)

381 aggieann  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:00:59pm

re: #144 Dianna

Students getting federal aid isn't the same as being publicly funded.

Actually, I think it is in terms of the law.

382 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:01:15pm

re: #371 Spare O'Lake

re: #332 callahan23

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

[Link: thinkexist.com...]

Thank you. Now after 16 years finally I get to know who coined that phrase.

383 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:01:55pm

re: #374 turn

By "it" I was thinking spruce goose ward.

384 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:02:25pm

23:51 France supports permanent seat for an Arab nation on UN Security Council (DPA)

As if the UN isn't already a total waste of time piece of shit organization why not just throw a match into the gasoline?

385 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:02:29pm

re: #355 quickjustice

The University Adminstrators are living a fantasy, i.e., "Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world without Democrats?" Anyone who can't engage a Democrat, or a Republican for that matter, in spirited, principled, and civil debate doesn't belong in college. In fact, isn't that a skill they're supposed to teach in college?

Exactly. I learned to deal with communists, socialists, and media conformists because I went to college at Cornell, which was infested with them even in the early 70s. Observing them close up, semester after semester, was a priceless education and one that continues to resonate to this day. In particular, I got an early start on understanding the links between centralized media and leftist politics, and on analyzing the PC-media culture of the 80s. If I may be excused some minor boasting, I was ahead of almost all others in seeing that culture for what it really was, a shadow government and a new form of totalitarianism.

386 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:02:58pm

re: #366 Fenway_Nation

I think a girl's 7-and-under powderpuff team could take Notre Dame.

It wasn't that long ago that they were considered legit rivals of USC. Now they're too scared to even take on Boston College.

Well, that's the issue. How can USC consider Notre Dame a rival when ND can't compete any longer?
Charlie Weiss is a loud mouth, who left his resume with the Pats.
Seriously, I could recruit for Notre Dame, "Son, you will be on national TV every week & we take care of our own."

387 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:03:16pm

re: #378 Gus 802

Is their a video clip around? Or a script.

I recall seeing it somewhere before. It's where Leo is listening to Johnny Caspar ranting about how Bernie had been screwing up the fix he'd put in on fights, and how this was wrong, ethically, because if a man can't trust a fixed fight, then what can he trust, and we're back to the law of the jungle.

388 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:03:40pm

re: #384 Nevergiveup

23:51 France supports permanent seat for an Arab nation on UN Security Council (DPA)

As if the UN isn't already a total waste of time piece of shit organization why not just throw a match into the gasoline?

As soon as a Jewish state also gets on the UNSC.

389 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:03:47pm

re: #382 callahan23 Churchill was quotable even about quotes...

"It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations."
- Sir Winston Churchill, My Early Life, 1930

390 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:04:04pm

re: #375 DaddyG

A few problems with that - many Catholic references there, and this isn't a Catholic School.

391 Nevergiveup  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:04:20pm

re: #388 Kosh's Shadow

As soon as a Jewish state also gets on the UNSC.

Oh Obama will support this also I think?

392 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:04:38pm

re: #375 DaddyG

Protestants don't have priests.

393 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:04:57pm

re: #380 FurryOldGuyJeans

You saying the Deity is not an athletic supporter? ;)

Falwells comment about Notre Dame just seemed pointed to me.
However the ND football program was big time then & he may have meant nothing but I want to beat the best.

394 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:05:06pm

re: #372 SixDegrees

If you are having second thoughts because of this odious action, it would be far, far better for everyone if you opted out for honest reasons by letting them know how you feel about this.

I am still conflicted about this, if I opt out of this presentation they will probably get somebody else who is less well-versed in this specialized topic than I am, but who has the Medved/Klinghoffer/Stein "creationist" cred. I try to avoid confrontation and controversy and if I do decide to opt out I will give a lame excuse. I'm still considering the pros and cons.

395 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:05:06pm

re: #390 ArmyWife

A few problems with that - many Catholic references there, and this isn't a Catholic School.

Right.
And I'm not so sure they particularly like Catholics there, either.

396 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:05:08pm

re: #391 Nevergiveup

Oh Obama will support this also I think?

He'll suggest the UN accept Brooklyn.

397 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:05:17pm

re: #377 opnion

Agreed. I sort of referenced that in responding to DaddyG's post. Hope the nuance wasn't lost on him.

/he is a him, right?

398 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:05:19pm

re: #387 Guanxi88

I recall seeing it somewhere before. It's where Leo is listening to Johnny Caspar ranting about how Bernie had been screwing up the fix he'd put in on fights, and how this was wrong, ethically, because if a man can't trust a fixed fight, then what can he trust, and we're back to the law of the jungle.

Found a script:

It's a wrong situation. It's gettin' so a
businessman can't expect no return from a fixed
fight. Now if you can't trust a fix, what can
you trust? For a good return you gotta go
bettin' on chance, and then you're back with
anarchy. Right back inna jungle. On account of
the breakdown of ethics. That's why ethics is
important. It's the grease makes us get along,
what separates us from the animals, beasts a
burden, beasts a prey. Ethics. Whereas Bernie
Bernheim is a horse of a different color ethics-
wise. As in, he ain't got any. He's stealin'
from me plain and simple.
399 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:05:56pm

re: #384 Nevergiveup

23:51 France supports permanent seat for an Arab nation on UN Security Council (DPA)

As if the UN isn't already a total waste of time piece of shit organization why not just throw a match into the gasoline?

The roof, the roof is on fire ...
... let the m*ther****er burn

400 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:06:28pm

re: #390 ArmyWife

A few problems with that - many Catholic references there, and this isn't a Catholic School.

re: #392 Dianna

It was a lame attempt to parody this gem from a previous thread.

401 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:06:39pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

If I was a betting type, I'd go with not so welcome.

402 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:06:40pm

re: #377 opnion

I suppose, but Libertys athletic program nevr really took off.
I also found ita little odd that Falwell chose the nations premire Catholic institution to target.

Was it Falwell or Swaggert who used to say that Catholics aren't Christians?

403 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:07:20pm

Well, lizards...gotta take off and do some half-hearted job-hunting.

Oddly enough, about half the temp jobs I've had since I've been laid off have come from half-hearted searched,waaaaay too casual applications where I didn't think I was going to get hired anyway or- literally- phoning it in.

404 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:07:24pm

re: #402 Dianna

I thought Falwell - guess we need to Google.

405 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:07:27pm

Well, you know, it's only a matter of time before some godless Kommie Kollege decides to ban Republicans in retaliation. What will the Liberty apologists say then?

406 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:07:35pm

re: #397 ArmyWife

Agreed. I sort of referenced that in responding to DaddyG's post. Hope the nuance wasn't lost on him.

/he is a him, right?

I be a he. The wife and 7 kids provides anecdotal evidence.

407 brookly red  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:07:46pm

re: #396 Kosh's Shadow

He'll suggest the UN accept Brooklyn.

worse things could happen...

408 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:07:52pm

re: #400 DaddyG

re: #392 Dianna

It was a lame attempt to parody this gem from a previous thread.

That is weird! Freaky!

409 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:19pm

re: #398 Gus 802

Here's your shiny penny!

410 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:21pm

re: #402 Dianna

Was it Falwell or Swaggert who used to say that Catholics aren't Christians?

That had to be Swaggert. He was into some serious bigotry.

411 SixDegrees  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:35pm

re: #41 gnargtharst

Okay, so you're not claiming it's a "free speech" issue, then what's left?

It's a stupidity issue. An odiousness issue. An issue of fundamental hypocrisy. I could go on.

Fundamentalist Christian university not friendly to Democrats? Shocking!

Yes, it is shocking that a University operating in a country that guarantees everyone the right to worship and believe as they see fit, that guarantees state authority will never impose it's own religious edicts on it's citizens, espousing a doctrine of forgiveness and acceptance would thusly puke in the face of the country that allows it such freedoms and contravene the most fundamental precepts of Christianity at the same time. It is an ugly display of bigotry, small-mindedness and intolerance that is an affront to every decent American and every decent Christian.

412 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:46pm

re: #408 Dianna

That is weird! Freaky!

Yup! A couple of Lizards called shennegans and I'm inclined to agree. Dear Margo got suckered into responding to that.

413 American Sabra  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:48pm

Being good isn't always easy, no matter how hard I try.

The only boy who could ever teach me ....

:)

414 Fenway_Nation  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:49pm

re: #384 Nevergiveup

Fuck that...how about we boot France from the security council and give it's seat to India?

415 Sparmageddon  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:08:59pm

re: #20 MacDuff

They sure can, at the price of their credibility. I would think that credibility would be somewhat valuable to a university.

While I would agree with you about credibility at Universities, have you heard some of the BS that comes from some of the profs at the places? Some very anti American teachings that fly in the face of credibility.

416 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:09:15pm

re: #410 opnion

That had to be Swaggert. He was into some serious bigotry.

he had great hair tho...you need great hair

417 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:09:35pm

re: #409 Guanxi88

Here's your shiny penny!

Thanks!

//I haz teh shiny penny.

418 formercorpsman  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:09:37pm
“His bottom line was, ‘You can’t be a Democrat and be a Christian and be a university representative,’” Childress said.

I'll be totally honest. As someone who leans right, I have pre-conceived notions (which are often correct when my gut tells me something) when seeing things on the surface. The one thing I can say about posting here, it has forced me to actually read more than the first few sentences, or base my entire opinion about an issue by just reading a headline.

All in all, the quote from above, is probably the most asinine portion of the whole article. What this illustrates, is the ineptitude of the people in charge. They lambaste the national party for not allowing dissension of thought within the party, yet have their own campus group the does exactly that, and they then ban them.

IMHO, a truly brilliant group of thinkers in the upper echelons of this university would recognize this as a golden opportunity to bash the national party over the head, utilizing the Campus Democrat party.

They are holding the club accountable for something this club has absolutely no control over. None.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. They could have used this to their advantage probably more than anything else, and they are buffoons.

419 JohnH  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:09:37pm

So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party?

420 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:09:38pm

re: #398 Gus 802

Great movie - Shakespearian story-line, adapted from Dashell Hammett, and better, for my time, than the Godfather.

421 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:09:56pm

re: #402 Dianna

Was it Falwell or Swaggert who used to say that Catholics aren't Christians?

I believe it was both, along with convicted scam artist Jim Bakker.

Televangelists and Fundamentalists don't countenance anyone outside their narrowly defined religious dogma.

422 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:10:17pm

re: #414 Fenway_Nation

Fuck that...how about we boot France from the security council and give it's seat to India?

how about we shut down the whole murderous scam?....sent then all to France

423 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:10:45pm

re: #417 Gus 802

Thanks!

//I haz teh shiny penny.

"Look in your heart, Tommy!"

"What heart?"

424 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:11:11pm

re: #416 albusteve

he had great hair tho...you need great hair


Great Big Hair

425 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:11:26pm

re: #419 JohnH

Do you always wander into a room and mumble to yourself?

426 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:11:48pm

Versaille would make a lovely new HQ for the UN...lots of room for parking

427 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:12:17pm

re: #420 Guanxi88

Great movie - Shakespearian story-line, adapted from Dashell Hammett, and better, for my time, than the Godfather.

Looks very interesting. And it has John Turturro whom I always liked. Haven't seen him in many movies lately.

428 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:12:33pm

re: #405 Shiplord Kirel

Well, you know, it's only a matter of time before some godless Kommie Kollege decides to ban Republicans in retaliation. What will the Liberty apologists say then?


Ah, I think you're on to it. They're hoping for like actions from the many bigger left leaning colleges so they can siphon students away!
/

429 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:12:53pm

re: #416 albusteve

he had great hair tho...you need great hair

Remember when he got caught condoling, I think it was the Church Secretary?
The guy went on TV crying. She on the other hand did a Playboy shoot, if I remember it right.

430 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:18pm

re: #424 DaddyG

Great Big Hair

there she is!...is that a prison pic?

431 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:20pm

re: #419 JohnH

So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party?

Yeah! How dare we, when we've already banned Democrats from the Republican Party?
/

432 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:21pm

re: #419 JohnH

So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party?

Pass the popcorn.

433 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:32pm

re: #429 opnion

Remember when he got caught condoling, I think it was the Church Secretary?
The guy went on TV crying. She on the other hand did a Playboy shoot, if I remember it right.

It's all a matter of assets.

434 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:36pm

re: #417 Gus 802

Thanks!

//I haz teh shiny penny.

Papa! Papa! I got a prize from the nuns! Papa! Papa! I got a prize from the nuns!

(Caspar slaps the taste out of his mouth, grabs him by the ears, and pulls him to his face.)

Take a page from this guy. A little less you talk, a little more you listen

(Kid bursts into tears.)

Aww, did somebody slap you?

(Hugs kid and pats him on the back.)

To Tommy: "Kids, you gotta be firm."

435 American Sabra  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:39pm

re: #429 opnion

Remember when he got caught condoling, I think it was the Church Secretary?
The guy went on TV crying. She on the other hand did a Playboy shoot, if I remember it right.

Jessica Hahn!

436 jcm  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:43pm

re: #371 Spare O'Lake

re: #332 callahan23

When you're 20 and you're not a liberal/socialist you have no heart.
When you're 40 and you're still a liberal/socialist you have no brains.

[Link: thinkexist.com...]

Earliest version...

Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head.
-- Francois Guisot (1787-1874)

Revised...

Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head.
-- Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929)

Later still..
He who is not a Socialist at 19, has no heart.
He who is still a Socialist at 30, has no brain.
- Otto Von Bismarck (1815-1896)

437 Baier  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:47pm

...

438 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:13:48pm

re: #419 JohnH

GAZE on.

439 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:03pm

re: #429 opnion

Remember when he got caught condoling, I think it was the Church Secretary?
The guy went on TV crying. She on the other hand did a Playboy shoot, if I remember it right.

white trash in a fancy suit

440 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:20pm

re: #414 Fenway_Nation

Fuck that...how about we boot France from the security council and give it's seat to India?

Good idea.
It also would piss off the Muslims (over Kashmir), making it an even better idea.

441 Sparmageddon  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:22pm

re: #21 Alouette

I'm invited to give a presentation at LU next year. They invited me a year ago, and at first I declined because it was on a Saturday, then they called me back saying they would change the schedule to accommodate me, so I accepted.

I am having regrets and want to cancel, I think I will opt out for health reasons.

Well, I'm sure they would understand if you told them the real reason after all, they ok'd the dem party in October then rescinded so they'll understand about you changing your mind right?

442 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:25pm

re: #419 JohnH

So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party?

Who do you refer to by (your)
gaze

443 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:26pm

re: #394 Alouette

I would say that if you are a good public speaker, and well versed in the subject you are scheduled to speak about, go ahead and do it.

No need to deprive the young people attending that institution of your knowledge and wisdom just because the admins. running that institution are complete morons.

Just my two cents.

444 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:29pm

re: #421 FurryOldGuyJeans

I believe it was both, along with convicted scam artist Jim Bakker.

Televangelists and Fundamentalists don't countenance anyone outside their narrowly defined religious dogma.

Actually, I remember Baker slamming Swagert for the anti Catholic stuff.
Baker just had financial issues.

445 Baier  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:37pm

re: #419 JohnH

So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party?

Purge the issue, not the people.

446 SixDegrees  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:40pm

re: #394 Alouette

I am still conflicted about this, if I opt out of this presentation they will probably get somebody else who is less well-versed in this specialized topic than I am, but who has the Medved/Klinghoffer/Stein "creationist" cred. I try to avoid confrontation and controversy and if I do decide to opt out I will give a lame excuse. I'm still considering the pros and cons.

I urge you to go, or not go, according to your conscience. But I also urge you to be honest about the reasons for your decision.

447 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:14:50pm

re: #430 albusteve

there she is!...is that a prison pic?

It's from her obituary article. I cant tell if it is pre or post embalming. //

448 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:15:02pm

re: #349 Spare O'Lake

To paraphrase (mine):
When you're 20 and a liberal. you have no responsibilities
When you're 40 and conservative, you have no illusions.

449 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:15:40pm

re: #383 turn

By "it" I was thinking spruce goose ward.

Oh yeah. It's in Oregon now.

450 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:15:53pm

re: #434 Guanxi88

A little less you talk, a little more you listen.

Great line. I like the "accent."

451 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:15:59pm

re: #410 opnion

That had to be Swaggert. He was into some serious bigotry.

Swaggart, I believe. Jimmy Lee Swaggart, cousin of Mickey Lee Gilley and Jerry Lee Lewis.
And the Phelps clan, of course.

452 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:16:16pm

re: #431 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah! How dare we, when we've already banned Democrats from the Republican Party?
/

We did? I thought there were still a few, even after Spector left.

453 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:16:24pm

re: #450 Gus 802

A little less you talk, a little more you listen.

Great line. I like the "accent."

"What do I get? I get the high-hat!"

454 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:16:45pm

re: #443 Slumbering Behemoth

I would say that if you are a good public speaker, and well versed in the subject you are scheduled to speak about, go ahead and do it.

No need to deprive the young people attending that institution of your knowledge and wisdom just because the admins. running that institution are complete morons.

Just my two cents.

There ya go.
Add my two cents to that, too.

455 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:16:47pm

re: #426 albusteve

And a whole hall full of mirrors for preening.

456 Maui Girl  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:16:50pm

I'm confused. I thought that being a Democrat or a Republican had to do with one's stance on the size and role of government in people's lives. Dems want total control, Repubs want minimal control. Isn't that what it was supposed to be? Looks like this country's political parties have gotten waaaayyyy off track.

457 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:17:01pm

re: #433 MrSilverDragon

It's all a matter of assets.

It was some interesting stuff & then Falwell took over manaing the Church properties of the Bakers.

458 formercorpsman  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:17:07pm

re: #419 JohnH

I have one question.

Do 2 wrongs make a right?

459 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:17:20pm

re: #429 opnion

Remember when he got caught condoling, I think it was the Church Secretary?
The guy went on TV crying. She on the other hand did a Playboy shoot, if I remember it right.

Oh, man.

Jim Bakker (PTL - "pass the loot") was the one who paid off the church secretary.

Swaggert (cousin to Jerry Lee Lewis, known as the crying preacher) got caught with a prostitute. The funny thing being, he wasn't have sex with said prostitute. The sheer weirdness of that story fascinates me.

460 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:17:21pm

re: #447 DaddyG

It's from her obituary article. I cant tell if it is pre or post embalming. //

frozen in time for all eternity...we are all less fortunate for her

461 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:17:34pm

re: #444 opnion

Actually, I remember Baker slamming Swagert for the anti Catholic stuff.
Baker just had financial issues.

I was going through my own fundamentalist phase during that time, so rarely had much time or inclination to spare listening to preachers on the box.

462 DEZes  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:17:40pm

re: #432 DaddyG

Pass the popcorn.

Extra butter?

Hello Lizards.

463 nikis-knight  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:18:13pm

re: #459 Dianna

Swaggert (cousin to Jerry Lee Lewis, known as the crying preacher) got caught with a prostitute. The funny thing being, he wasn't have sex with said prostitute. The sheer weirdness of that story fascinates me.

Heh, shades of Arrested Development.

464 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:18:15pm

re: #458 formercorpsman

I have one question.

Do 2 wrongs make a right?

No, but three lefts will (someone had to do it, just to get it out of the way)

465 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:18:24pm

re: #458 formercorpsman

a right to what?
Possibly......

466 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:18:39pm

re: #406 DaddyG

7 - good for you! Never a dull moment I bet!

467 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:09pm

re: #459 Dianna

Swaggert (cousin to Jerry Lee Lewis, known as the crying preacher) got caught with a prostitute. The funny thing being, he wasn't have sex with said prostitute. The sheer weirdness of that story fascinates me.

Wasn't there a vacuum cleaner involved? (not sure I really want to know how that played out).

468 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:15pm

re: #442 callahan23

Who do you refer to by (your)
gaze

What, you can't divine his meaning from his sloppy writing? PFFFFFFFFT! FIE! ;)

469 callahan23  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:36pm

re: #462 DEZes

Hello Lizards.

Hi {DEZes},
how are you on this fine 'n sunny Friday?

470 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:42pm

re: #464 Guanxi88

No, but three lefts will (someone had to do it, just to get it out of the way)

Isn't that a "Missouri" right-turn? Or Saint Louis. Might be three rights to make a left. So I heard.

471 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:48pm

re: #447 DaddyG

Be nice about Tammy Faye Bakker. I've always felt more than a little sorry for her.

472 Guanxi88  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:52pm

re: #455 tradewind

And a whole hall full of mirrors for preening.

Lady from Shanghai - just watched it again this week - with the mirror maze scene at the climax.

473 Dave the.....  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:19:55pm

re: #419 JohnH


So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party

Although I think this is an incredibly stupid move, I can see where they are coming from. Would Howard University allow a party on campus that promotes African-Ameircans as second class citizens, even if the student chapter was for civil rights? Again, I think Liberty Univ made a very bad move, but just to put it in context. Today's Democratic party's views are almost 100% opposite of this colleges.

474 SixDegrees  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:02pm

re: #414 Fenway_Nation

Fuck that...how about we boot France from the security council and give it's seat to India?

India, frankly, would be a better and more sensible choice for inclusion on the Security Council.

But to be blunt, I think the UN is a joke. The US should pursue the creation of another organization dedicated to promoting the interests of the world's democracies, especially now that there are so many fledgling examples that could stand some nourishing and encouragement. Once established, we can reduce out presence at the all-but-defunct UN to a token, and urge them to relocate somewhere that illustrates the sort of world they've neglected and created. I'm thinking maybe somewhere in Palestinian Territory. Or maybe Mogadishu.

475 Baier  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:14pm

re: #462 DEZes

Extra butter?

Hello Lizards.

ohh, I'm making popcorn tonight for sure! great idea!

476 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:17pm

re: #467 DaddyG

I think Hoover was involved in there somewhere

477 opnion  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:20pm

re: #459 Dianna

Oh, man.

Jim Bakker (PTL - "pass the loot") was the one who paid off the church secretary.

Swaggert (cousin to Jerry Lee Lewis, known as the crying preacher) got caught with a prostitute. The funny thing being, he wasn't have sex with said prostitute. The sheer weirdness of that story fascinates me.

Your right, I can't keep these guys straight. Jim & Tammy Baker also got in trouble for selling more conds than actually existed at their Bible theme park.

478 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:21pm

re: #471 Dianna

Be nice about Tammy Faye Bakker. I've always felt more than a little sorry for her.

no

479 formercorpsman  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:23pm

re: #464 Guanxi88

You need to stop visiting Zombie's Folsom Street Fair page.

I know, I know...

480 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:35pm

re: #459 Dianna

Oh, man.

Jim Bakker (PTL - "pass the loot") was the one who paid off the church secretary.

Swaggert (cousin to Jerry Lee Lewis, known as the crying preacher) got caught with a prostitute. The funny thing being, he wasn't have sex with said prostitute. The sheer weirdness of that story fascinates me.

Dennis Miller commented, "Let him who has a clean hand cast the first stone."

481 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:45pm

re: #466 ArmyWife

7 - good for you! Never a dull moment I bet!

All praise belongs to my wife who does the heavy lifting during the day. No there is never a dull moment. But I'm never lonely and as they older many hands make light work.

482 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:20:53pm

re: #451 reine.de.tout

Swaggart, I believe. Jimmy Lee Swaggart, cousin of Mickey Lee Gilley and Jerry Lee Lewis.
And the Phelps clan, of course.

Ideologically? I hope, any way?

483 DEZes  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:21:04pm

re: #469 callahan23

Hi {DEZes},
how are you on this fine 'n sunny Friday?

I am all set for the 3 day weekend. ;)
{Callahan}

Everyone remember our fallen.

484 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:21:45pm

re: #459 Dianna

Jim Bakker (PTL - "pass the loot")

"pay the lady"

485 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:21:49pm

re: #474 SixDegrees

The UN has deteriorated into a cabal of third-world nations who meet to pretend like they have some influence over first world nations by writing resolutions.

486 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:21:51pm

re: #480 Shiplord Kirel

Dennis Miller commented, "Let him who has a clean hand cast the first stone."

I just found the story fascinating. Almost novelistic in its feel.

487 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:22:03pm

re: #467 DaddyG

Wasn't there a vacuum cleaner involved? (not sure I really want to know how that played out).

They sure needed a vacuum cleaner for this mess:

In 1986, Swaggart exposed fellow Assemblies of God minister Marvin Gorman, who had been accused of having an affair with another pastor's wife, who was at the time undergoing counseling with Pastor Gorman. Some said this was done out of fear that Gorman was taking away from Swaggart's audience and donations. Gorman was based in New Orleans and was adding stations throughout the Southern region and was beginning to add stations on the West Coast and in the Northeast. Gorman was also in the planning stages for a weekday telecast. Once exposed, Gorman was defrocked from the Assemblies of God and his ministry all but ended.
The following year, Swaggart exposed fellow Assemblies Of God televangelist Jim Bakker's sexual indiscretions and appeared on Larry King Live, stating that Bakker was a "cancer in the body of Christ." Jim Bakker and the late Tammy Bakker, were at the height of the Praise the Lord Network. He and similarly-minded Baptist evangelist Jerry Falwell investigated Jim Bakker and eventually uncovered his indiscretions. In 1987, Jim Bakker's ministry was falling apart as a result. Heritage USA was bought by Morningstar Ministries in 2004 and a portion of the property has been refurbished.
As a retaliatory move, Marvin Gorman hired a private detective to follow Swaggart. The detective found Swaggart in a Louisiana motel on Airline Highway with a prostitute, Debra Murphree, and took pictures of the tryst.[8] Gorman presented Swaggart with the photos in a blackmail attempt to force Swaggart to come clean, but Swaggart refused. Gorman then presented the pictures to the presbytery leadership of the Assemblies of God, which decided that Swaggart should be suspended from broadcasting his television program for three months. The incident was heavily satirized by musician Frank Zappa in a three-song medley referred to by band members as the "Texas Motel Medley", consisting of three songs by the Beatles with the lyrics changed to reflect the events. While the Texas Motel Medley itself was never released due to copyright concerns, several references to the incident can be heard on the live albums The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life and Broadway the Hard Way.
On February 21, 1988, without giving the details of his transgressions, Swaggart tearfully spoke to his family, congregation and audience, saying, "I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgiveness."[9] On a New Orleans morning news show four days later, Murphree stated that while Swaggart was a regular customer, they had never engaged in sexual intercourse.[10]
The Louisiana Assemblies of God initially suspended Jimmy Swaggart from the ministry for three months. The national Assemblies of God soon extended it to their standard year-long suspension for scandalous sexual immorality. Against the ruling of the national governing body of the Assemblies of God, Swaggart returned to his television pulpit after only three months. He stated, "If I do not return to the pulpit this weekend, millions of people will go to hell." Believing that Swaggart was not genuinely repentant in not submitting to their authority, the Assemblies of God immediately defrocked Swaggart, removing his credentials and ministerial license.
On October 11, 1991, Swaggart was found, for the second time, in the company of another prostitute, Rosemary Garcia,[11] when he was pulled over by the California Highway Patrol in Indio, California, for driving on the wrong side of the road.
488 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:22:04pm

re: #484 Kreuzueber Halbmond

"pay the lady"

"pass the lady", too.

489 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:22:09pm

re: #471 Dianna

Be nice about Tammy Faye Bakker. I've always felt more than a little sorry for her.

OK I'll play nice. I can't help but think she might have been a bit complicit in the Pass The Loot club scandals however without evidence to that fact I should be nice.

Correction taken.

490 Gus  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:22:46pm

BTW, space shuttle landing was cancelled for today. Atlantis STS-125.

Next slot is open tomorrow at KSC around 0916. KEDW will be open as well.

[Link: www.nasa.gov...]

491 Ward Cleaver  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:23:08pm

re: #459 Dianna

Oh, man.

Jim Bakker (PTL - "pass the loot") was the one who paid off the church secretary.

Swaggert (cousin to Jerry Lee Lewis, known as the crying preacher) got caught with a prostitute. The funny thing being, he wasn't have sex with said prostitute. The sheer weirdness of that story fascinates me.

"Pass The Loot"? Also, "Pay The Lady".

492 MrSilverDragon  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:23:10pm

Well folks, time for me to hit the dusty trail. I wish you all the best on this Memorial Day weekend, I hope y'all get to enjoy some wonderful barbeques and picnics, and I offer my solemn praise to those who have fallen in order to keep our country safe from harm.

Best wishes, y'all.

493 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:23:13pm

re: #482 Dianna

Ideologically? I hope, any way?

eh?
My mind is still swirling from my earlier profanity, so I'm not altogether here.

494 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:23:17pm

re: #392 Dianna


Not in the Catholic sense--but the Episcopals call the celebrants "priests".

495 jcm  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:23:34pm

re: #471 Dianna

Be nice about Tammy Faye Bakker. I've always felt more than a little sorry for her.

I ran into Tammy at the mall......

496 JohnH  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:23:46pm

re: #473 Dave the.....

Although I think this is an incredibly stupid move, I can see where they are coming from. Would Howard University allow a party on campus that promotes African-Ameircans as second class citizens, even if the student chapter was for civil rights? Again, I think Liberty Univ made a very bad move, but just to put it in context. Today's Democratic party's views are almost 100% opposite of this colleges.

It is a stupid move by Liberty. Every college student should be allowed to be a moron for a time.

497 Flavia  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:24:03pm

re: #16 gnargtharst

Who cares? So the Democratic Party Club objects.... Then don't enroll there. It's a private university full of fundamentalists. If you want to start a club that opposes the founding dogma, you might find yourself unwelcome.

It's not a "free speech" issue. All the Democrat Club members are perfectly welcome to speak their inane speech somewhere else, using their own property.

Non-issue.

I disagree. Partially. You are correct that the Democrat Club is free to take itself elsewhere. But this is, indeed, a free speech issue. The college is exposing itself as both fascist & cowardly when it comes to any differing opinions.

& there's another little issue: will the university refund the tuition paid by those who feel forced to leave? I'm betting not

498 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:24:29pm

re: #486 Dianna

I just found the story fascinating. Almost novelistic in its feel.

sordid, lurid, churchporn...the worst kind of trash...years of fleecing droolers that depended on them to manufacture some light....if there is a hell, I'll see those two there and kick their cheating asses myself

499 calcajun  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:24:49pm

re: #493 reine.de.tout

You were saving that up, weren't you?//

500 DaddyG  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:25:25pm

re: #487 reine.de.tout
Wow!

501 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:25:39pm

re: #499 calcajun

You were saving that up, weren't you?//

How did you know?
LOL

502 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:25:40pm

re: #454 reine.de.tout

Ooh! We almost have enough to share a stick of gum. Let's search the parking lot for loose change.

503 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:25:49pm

re: #491 Ward Cleaver

Prosecute the Liars.
You could easily see the scene of Jesus casting out the moneychangers moved to PTL land with no loss of context.

504 ArmyWife  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:26:15pm

re: #419 JohnH

Who is "your" kemosabi? For me, I don't want this "purged" from anything - people have the right to be religious and believe in creationism. The problem becomes when the overriding tenet of the party is "religious" and "creationism". The party ought to be about fiscal conservatism, large military and defense, small government, capitalism and protecting the Constitution. The rest we can agree to disagree and get on down the road.

505 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:26:33pm

re: #502 Slumbering Behemoth

Ooh! We almost have enough to share a stick of gum. Let's search the parking lot for loose change.

The couch cushions. don't forget the couch cushions.

506 Clutch  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:26:50pm

This is just wrong. As much as I despise the Democratic party, this is just wrong. This sends the wrong message and sane, level-headed Republicans need to distance themselves from this and denounce this action as not of their doing. (I haven't read the whole thread, so mea culpa if I missed these issues being addressed.)

507 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:27:03pm

re: #489 DaddyG

OK I'll play nice. I can't help but think she might have been a bit complicit in the Pass The Loot club scandals however without evidence to that fact I should be nice.

Correction taken.

Oh, she was...but the woman seemed to have no brain and even less backbone. Jim Bakker humiliated her constantly. Ugly business, and I've always felt uneasy about condemning her too much.

508 jamgarr  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:27:21pm

They started out like Romeo and Juliet - but it ended in tragedy.

509 tradewind  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:28:06pm

re: #506 Clutch

sane, level-headed Republicans need to distance themselves from this and denounce this action as not of their doing.
..probably a pretty safe assumption.

510 formercorpsman  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:28:17pm

re: #496 JohnH

But you threw down the moral equivelance card.

511 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:28:36pm

re: #494 calcajun

Not in the Catholic sense--but the Episcopals call the celebrants "priests".

I know - but I tend to think of them as a Catholic Church that ignores the Pope. Contrast with American Catholics, who are communicants who ignore the Pope.

512 SixDegrees  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:28:44pm

re: #485 tradewind

The UN has deteriorated into a cabal of third-world nations who meet to pretend like they have some influence over first world nations by writing resolutions.

Something like that. Noble ambitions, but they have failed miserably, and their time is now past. They have become an almost pointless distraction. I would be happy to simply leave and ignore them, except that they have descended into the perpetration of evil of late - child rape, colluding with drug traffickers and arms dealers, concealing evidence of the most foul human rights abuses and much, much more - and because of that they need to be watched and have their crimes dragged out into the light whenever possible.

It's a real pity John Bolton was Borked out of his appointment. He had exactly the right attitude about the organization, except that he still believed it was salvageable.

513 Ziggy  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:28:52pm

I think they should change the name of the University. "Liberty" is dishonest and deceiving. I don't even think Berkley would ban the republican student organization. What a disgrace.

514 Dave the.....  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:29:20pm

Even though I see where Liberty is coming from, the problem is that they aren't banning a student organization with ties to a small party. Right now, Democrats control....most of the country. I don't know if any of these kids would eventually have a moderating affect (effect?) on the Democrat party down the road, but you never know.

515 Dianna  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:29:27pm

re: #493 reine.de.tout

Don't worry about it.

516 formercorpsman  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:29:31pm
517 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:29:48pm

re: #471 Dianna

She was a very sweet lady, who incidentally had a large gay* following.
/I think his name was Dave...

Seriously though, I don't think she had a bigoted bone in her body, she witnessed to many gay people without prejudice.

518 jones  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:30:48pm

I'm not sure Jerry Falwell would condone this- that is a pretty low bar. Shame.

519 Sparmageddon  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:31:14pm

re: #139 FurryOldGuyJeans

An "eye for an eye" is only going to make us all blind. Time for maturity to be dominant again instead of acting like spoiled brats.

Mmmmm...Brats, I love summer. Mmmmm beer brats on the grill :) But not spoiled of course.

520 turn  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:31:34pm

Time to go walk the lab along the American. Have a wonderful memorial day weekend kind folk. To all you lizard vets, the ones currently fighting the war on terror, the ones with sons or daughters serving, and most importantly those who's friends and family members have made the ultimate sacrifice for this great nation - a special thank you from turn.

"If other eyes grow dull and other hinds slack, and other hearts cold in the solemn trust, ours shall keep it well as long as the light and warmth of life remain in us"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I'm putting a Chrysler Imperial rose on dad's grave, it was his favorite.

521 albusteve  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:31:50pm

re: #517 Slumbering Behemoth

She was a very sweet lady, who incidentally had a large gay* following.
/I think his name was Dave...

Seriously though, I don't think she had a bigoted bone in her body, she witnessed to many gay people without prejudice.

bigotry?...whatever...she was lying scum just like her husband...these people were felons at best

522 JohnH  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:33:05pm

re: #504 ArmyWife

The "your" I was referring to was seems to be what Charles is doing. I will confess that maybe I am misinterpreting what he wants to accomplish.

Confesssion: I'm religious, creationist, etc. I just don't see the overriding tenet of the party being either religious or creationist.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you think should be the focus of the party. Politics is a pretty poor way to propogate the faith, IMO.

523 SixDegrees  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:34:18pm

re: #497 Flavia

I disagree. Partially. You are correct that the Democrat Club is free to take itself elsewhere. But this is, indeed, a free speech issue. The college is exposing itself as both fascist & cowardly when it comes to any differing opinions.

& there's another little issue: will the university refund the tuition paid by those who feel forced to leave? I'm betting not

I don't believe any students are being asked to leave. They're disbanding the Democratic Club a the university, but the students who belong, as far as I've read, aren't facing any punishment other than losing their membership in the club. And it's the end of the school year, so there probably aren't even any membership dues in play.

524 pingjockey  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:35:19pm

re: #363 ArmyWife

That is a fact. Core principles should be limitied gov, strong military, then, oh hell I don't know. But I do know the whole creationist stuff is not gonna fly.

525 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:43:39pm

re: #471 Dianna

Be nice about Tammy Faye Bakker. I've always felt more than a little sorry for her.

She was overpainted and not well-served by the men in her life, but I think she, herself, was good and sincere.

526 [deleted]  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:50:18pm
527 pingjockey  Fri, May 22, 2009 2:53:12pm

re: #526 Iron Fist
Yah. That's a hard and fast one for me too.

528 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:03:02pm

re: #419 JohnH

So how is this any different than what appears to be your campaign to purge religious conservatives and creationists from the Republican party?

Well, let's see if we can count the ways it's different:

1) I'm not a university.

2) I haven't posted a single article advocating a purge of anything.

3) Religious conservatives and creationists are not a campus political club.

I could go on, but why bother? It's just another thin-skinned complaint in a long line of them.

529 pingjockey  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:06:41pm

re: #528 Charles

Damnit! There you go using logic, again. You know that's not fair!

530 Captain Cool  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:15:57pm

wow. I didn't even know there were right-leaning colleges.

531 Syrah  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:17:46pm

We, (The SJSU College Republicans), only had one serious problem with the Campus Democrats back when I was in college. They were too damn cheap (or self-righteous) to contribute to the beer fund at the softball game.

Other that, they were pretty harmless, even if a bit humorless.

532 debutaunt  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:26:37pm

re: #402 Dianna

Was it Falwell or Swaggert who used to say that Catholics aren't Christians?

Sounds kinda Mark Twainish.

533 Syrah  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:33:32pm

re: #531 Syrah

We, (The SJSU College Republicans), only had one serious problem with the Campus Democrats back when I was in college. They were too damn cheap (or self-righteous) to contribute to the beer fund at the softball game.

Other that, they were pretty harmless, even if a bit humorless.

For us, the contrast between them and us was used a recruiting technique. We hosted huge tailgates parties at the football games. Beer, hot dogs, loud music, dancing etc... The Campus Democrats did nothing of the sort. not even a feeble attempt to compete with us.

So there you are in college. Its the first time in your life that your parents arn't hovering over your shoulder and minding your business. You are on your one. You want to do something besides just spend time with the books.

One Campus Party club is out having a good time, the other party's club is too earnest and serious to have a good time. Both do political stuff, but only one is hosting keggers at the football games. Which one would you want to go hang out with?

Hmm . . .

The more I think about it, the more I think that we would have been tossed out of Liberty U also.

534 theheat  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:47:59pm

re: #326 opnion

And a very graceful dancer, for real.

535 gander  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:49:56pm

It is possible to have principles without being narrow-minded or petty. That is what Liberty University doesn't seem to understand.

536 American Sabra  Fri, May 22, 2009 3:52:26pm

re: #471 Dianna

Be nice about Tammy Faye Bakker. I've always felt more than a little sorry for her.

I never really did until the end. But I guess he took as much advantage of her as he did so many others.

My dad was a mortgage broker in Florida in the 80's. Right before Bakker went to prison, he was trying to buy a large, oceanfront hotel. Dad was used to dealing with high rollers who had millions and most were jackasses, but he told me Jim Bakker was the complete opposite. He was one of the kindest most down-to-earth guys he had ever met. Of course, all the scandals had already come out so he knew what kind of man Bakker was and was expecting a different kind of person. Dad commented to me he completely understood why he had so many followers.

537 theheat  Fri, May 22, 2009 4:06:12pm

It's surprising they'd kick out any group that might diminish their strength in numbers. They always posture themselves as being so freakin' relevant, that the GOP needs to heed their incessant whining and fundie wish lists, you would think they would fight tooth and nail to pull the Dems in, if for no other reason to act as though their value system was so attractive they'd converted.

Liberty University, that shits on other people's liberties. You can't say it without a little tongue-in-cheek. That's a good one.

538 BornAmerican  Fri, May 22, 2009 4:42:42pm

This is an example of pushing back. A lot of people have swallowed the liberal bile for a long time. So they overreact. It isnt pretty.

539 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 5:25:01pm

re: #411 SixDegrees

"It's a stupidity issue. An odiousness issue. An issue of fundamental hypocrisy..."

I agree on "stupid" and "odious", as it pertains to Liberty University generally. Fundamental hypocrisy? As replied to someone earlier, you appear to have a more positive concept of fundamentalists than I do, to interpret their banning of opposition as "hypocritical". As far as I know, it's entirely consistent with their stated beliefs. This was teh purpose for my original "who cares?"... It was a literal question: who is surprised by this?

...it is shocking that a University operating in a country that guarantees everyone the right to worship and believe as they see fit, that guarantees state authority will never impose it's [sic] own religious edicts on it's [sic] citizens, espousing a doctrine of forgiveness and acceptance..."

Either you confused your clauses, or you are claiming that this country (i.e., government) "espouses a doctrine of foregiveness and acceptance". I have to believe you meant that *Christianity" espouses this.

"... would thusly puke in the face of the country that allows it such freedoms..."

How does not funding and/or sanctioning a club "puke in the face of the country..."? A major benefit of freedom of speech is that we, as private citizens, either individually or as owners of a university, are not forced to fund or support those whose ideas we find repugnant. Obviously Liberty disagrees with the Democratic Party; I would expect them to not allow the Party to speak in its (Liberty U's) name. (Disclosure: I cheer for neither party in this conflict, to put it politely).

540 koedo  Fri, May 22, 2009 5:51:40pm

One action at one school is hardly 'the religious right' or a 'purge'. We wouldn't want to generalize now, would we?

541 gnargtharst  Fri, May 22, 2009 6:46:31pm

re: #497 Flavia

"... You are correct that the Democrat Club is free to take itself elsewhere. But this is, indeed, a free speech issue."

It is not a free speech issue, if what you mean by this is that it violates our constitutional first amendment right of free speech.

I am dismayed at how many people do not understand constitutionally-guaranteed "free speech". *Only a government*, using the coercive power of the state, can violate a citizen's free speech. Walmart can not "censor", nor can 7-11, nor Barnes & Noble, nor Liberty University -- these entities have no power to prevent people from reading, speaking, worshipping, etc. Conversely, nobody has any right to insist that some party (Liberty University, e.g.) foot the bill (or provide a forum) to disseminate one's ideas.

I would fully expect Liberty University to refuse to allow their name to shill for the Democratic Party (and likewise vice versa).

(Personally, since I consider both parties beneath contempt, I coudn't care less --thus my original "who cares?". But I do care about the First Amendment; fortunately, this has nothing to do with that.)

"...The college is exposing itself as both fascist & cowardly when it comes to any differing opinions."

"Fascist"? So, dissolving a campus club is exactly like the Third Reich?

542 Jimmah  Sat, May 23, 2009 6:07:53am

re: #178 JamesWI

Look up Christopher Hitchens on the various cable news networks after he died. Some of the best eulogies i've heard. I believe one of his last lines was along the lines of, he's so full of shit "if you gave the man an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox."

Golden words from the Hitch. May they never be forgotten.

543 koedo  Sat, May 23, 2009 7:43:55am

Again, where's the conspiracy of the GOP? It's one university taking a singular action. Has paranoia taken hold at LGF? It seems to me that this event has served as validation for some people who are primed and ready to see conspiracies.

Did you hear something in the other room? I hope it's not Michael Steel installing microphones!

544 Yosemite Bill  Sat, May 23, 2009 8:09:11am

Purge ?
Ummm words have meaning and decertifying a club sure as Hell is not a "purge."
I wonder given the furor and pixel space devoted here( rightly so ) to raging against the neo- nazi types in europe and yet when a Christian University takes action to affirm the sanctity of life and that university will not allow those who condone the taking of innocent life to use that university's name, why is standing for principle in one case good, Charles, and in Liberty's case bad ?
Secularists , progressives, etc- those who embrace "diversity and tolerance" rarely practice such in real life.
Decertifying a club at a university is NOT censorship nor a purge - get a grip .

545 BartB  Sat, May 23, 2009 11:58:09am

re: #27 subsailor68

Last fall, Diaz said, Hine had complimented the club for being a faith-based organization working within the Democratic Party.

Okay, a private university can do what it pleases, but it doesn't seem to me a very good idea to trash the very people you're hoping to help carry your message to the opposition party - perhaps even help modify it's position(s) sometime in the future.

I doubt that there is any chance the opposition party will carry any positive messages from the university. One might as well hope that Hamas will
carry messages from the Israeli Prime Minister.

546 Alan K. Henderson  Sat, May 23, 2009 6:03:48pm

Note that a group is not prohibited from campus. LU is simply denying formal recognition. And since the org is an arm of a political party that is steeped in theft cranked up well past eleven, I have no problem with that at all.

547 quickjustice  Sat, May 23, 2009 8:06:31pm

re: #546 Alan K. Henderson

"Liberty" University is misnamed. The people in charge are too chickensh*t to tolerate a chapter of the College Democrats? Give me a break! How do students learn to debate any issues if both sides aren't represented?

If LU isn't teaching its students argumentation and debate, it isn't educating them. Democrats may be wrong, but they're entitled to be heard, and to participate in the wider community. And if their political opponents are too feeble-minded to refute them in a spirited and civil way, then they deserve to lose the debate.

548 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sun, May 24, 2009 4:02:53am

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Yep, secularism protects our freedoms. 100 million dead Communists can't be wrong!

549 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sun, May 24, 2009 4:04:31am

I think Liberty is very much in the wrong and is playing right into the hands of secularists.

550 Salamantis  Sun, May 24, 2009 4:16:17am

re: #548 rwdflynavy

Yep, secularism protects our freedoms. 100 million dead Communists can't be wrong!

Wrong. Communisms are atheisms, and forbid and prohibit religion. Secularisms simply avoid entanglement with any religion, or with the lack of it, and leave the freedom of or from religion up to the individual citizen.

551 koedo  Sun, May 24, 2009 10:22:50am

Conservative and contrary views have been discouraged and physically interrupted for some time now at the great liberal institutions of higher education.

We should be upset about that treatment too, right? In fact, when weighed against what LU has done it is, in fact, the liberal institutions that should be criticized and castigated for their behavior is by far more frequent and intolerable.

So why all the hyperventilating about this one incident? It's Sunday afternoon now and the total amount of purges has risen to.......... drum roll, please...........1

552 Flavia  Sun, May 24, 2009 11:40:27am

re: #523 SixDegrees

I don't believe any students are being asked to leave. They're disbanding the Democratic Club a the university, but the students who belong, as far as I've read, aren't facing any punishment other than losing their membership in the club.

I didn't say they were being asked to leave - I said "feel forced to leave." When the authorities - not just some rowdy polloi - says "You are not welcome here," it's more powerful than just spitballing.

553 Salamantis  Sun, May 24, 2009 11:44:13am

re: #551 koedo

Conservative and contrary views have been discouraged and physically interrupted for some time now at the great liberal institutions of higher education.

We should be upset about that treatment too, right? In fact, when weighed against what LU has done it is, in fact, the liberal institutions that should be criticized and castigated for their behavior is by far more frequent and intolerable.

So why all the hyperventilating about this one incident? It's Sunday afternoon now and the total amount of purges has risen to.......... drum roll, please...........1

Please furnish me the name of any other university that has banned either a Democratic or a Republican Party school club. As far as I am aware, this sort of action is quite unique to Liberty University. All you have to do to prove me wrong is to furnish the name of ONE other university, either conservative or liberal, that has done such a thing.

554 Flavia  Sun, May 24, 2009 11:53:24am

re: #541 gnargtharst

Your hyperbole & obfuscation does you no little disservice. Yes, it is a stifling of free speech - certainly a denial of right of assembly, since you're insisting on pretending that you are reading the Constitution more carefully than anyone else. The college is doing its best to make sure these people's voices are not heard. To pretend that they can still talk/read/worship means that the act did not happen, that's just childish. And yes, it was a fascist act - no matter how silly your pretense that fascism can only be Hitlerian in nature: it was the direct stifling of dissent.

555 Alan K. Henderson  Sun, May 24, 2009 12:48:08pm

re: #547 quickjustice

If LU isn't teaching its students argumentation and debate, it isn't educating them. Democrats may be wrong, but they're entitled to be heard, and to participate in the wider community. And if their political opponents are too feeble-minded to refute them in a spirited and civil way, then they deserve to lose the debate.

Are we reading the same article? The one I'm reading says that LU is simply refusing to put an official stamp on the organization. It can meet on campus like other non-official organizations. There is no suppression of argumentation and debate. Quoting the article:

“That club still has the right to exist,“ Falwell said, although it cannot use the university’s name in its activities.

“They still can meet on campus,“ in certain rooms, he said.

If LU is like other colleges, official recognition usually grants access to university funds. LU doesn't want funds to go to a political party dedicated to gross human rights violations. That's not abridgment of free speech.

556 koedo  Sun, May 24, 2009 4:36:10pm

Salamantis,

There is no ban. I trust you've read the article, especially the first few paragraphs.

Now if you want to talk bans we can roll out the ROTC which has a history of being banned.

557 Salamantis  Mon, May 25, 2009 4:37:51am

re: #556 koedo

Salamantis,

There is no ban. I trust you've read the article, especially the first few paragraphs.

Now if you want to talk bans we can roll out the ROTC which has a history of being banned.

Nitpicking word-parsing.

Okay, then show me another university that has, and I explicitly fucking quote, "revoked the recognition" of either a Democratic or a Republican school club. Can you do that? No you fucking can't. Because no other university has done such a fucking thing.

And it's damn sure difficult as hell to parse the 'distinction without a difference' between 'banning' and 'revoking recognition', when the latter mandates, and I explicitly fucking quote again, that " the club must stop using the university’s name, holding meetings on campus, or advertising events", and that "violators could incur one or more reprimands under the school’s Liberty Way conduct code, and anyone who accumulates 30 reprimands is subject to expulsion."

Liberty University are simply being the religiopolitically intolerant anuses that their founder Jerry Falwell designed them to be (and I combined religion and politics, because the fantically zealous fundie denizens of Liberty University's administration, like Al Qaeda, the Wahhabbis, and the Taliban, can't seem to tell the fucking difference).

558 Ty85719  Mon, May 25, 2009 1:08:54pm

While it may conflict with peoples' sense of ethics (including my own), It is still a private institution, free to do what it sees fit, so long as it abides by the law


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