flashvars=”image=http%3A%2F%2ftheonion.com%2Fcontent%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2FMAGIC_LAMP_article.jpg&videoid=97507&title=Baseball%20Superstar%20Accused%20of%20Performance-Enhancing%20Genie%20Use”
3 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:25:12pm |
re: #2 Dark_Falcon
Can the genie make Obama disappear?
///
Can the Genie make the Birthers, Militias, and Troofers go away?
| 6 |
paint-right Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:29:12pm |
re: #4 Bloodnok
The Onion nails the look and lunacy of ESPN shows.
I was gonna say...they got it locked! I laughed out very loud.
| 11 |
paint-right Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:31:22pm |
re: #9 Sharmuta
They need a crawling sports ticker.
In the other Onion video most recently, the scroll was hilarious.
| 12 |
Bloodnok Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:31:44pm |
re: #9 Sharmuta
They need a crawling sports ticker.
I was waiting the whole time for a crawl. Still good, though.
| 13 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:32:17pm |
re: #9 Sharmuta
They need a crawling sports ticker.
Most Onion News videos I watch twice, the second time to read the crawl.
| 14 |
Bobblehead Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:33:38pm |
Those actors must have a blast on the set everyday.
| 18 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:38:01pm |
Bermuda on alert as Hurricane Bill advances
MIAMI (AFP) Hurricane Bill is threatening this vacation destination but local residents are not exactly concerned. On the heels of Bill is Hurricane Monica, and most folks in the know expect Monica to blow Bill off its intended course.
| 19 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:38:34pm |
re: #2 Dark_Falcon
Can the genie make Obama disappear?
///
Can the genie get Sarah Palin a talk show?
| 20 |
jorline Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:39:37pm |
lmao...Overstreet's 850 average is not genie induced.
2009 season: 512 HR and 8,885 RBI's.
| 22 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:39:41pm |
re: #19 Cato the Elder
Can the genie get Sarah Palin a talk show?
Can the Genie make Cato vote for Sarah Palin in 2012?
| 23 |
paint-right Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:39:48pm |
| 24 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:41:08pm |
re: #18 solomonpanting
Bermuda on alert as Hurricane Bill advances
But enough about the Clintons... :D
| 25 |
JCM Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:41:23pm |
Obama Underwrites Offshore Drilling
.
.
.
In Brazil
You read that headline correctly. Unfortunately, the Obama Administration is financing oil exploration off Brazil.The U.S. is going to lend billions of dollars to Brazil's state-owned oil company, Petrobras, to finance exploration of the huge offshore discovery in Brazil's Tupi oil field in the Santos Basin near Rio de Janeiro. Brazil's planning minister confirmed that White House National Security Adviser James Jones met this month with Brazilian officials to talk about the loan.
The U.S. Export-Import Bank tells us it has issued a "preliminary commitment" letter to Petrobras in the amount of $2 billion and has discussed with Brazil the possibility of increasing that amount. Ex-Im Bank says it has not decided whether the money will come in the form of a direct loan or loan guarantees. Either way, this corporate foreign aid may strike some readers as odd, given that the U.S. Treasury seems desperate for cash and Petrobras is one of the largest corporations in the Americas.
| 26 |
jorline Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:41:44pm |
re: #19 Cato the Elder
Can the genie get Sarah Palin a talk show?
Can the genie get blueherron to appear on a thread verses stealth?
| 27 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:42:04pm |
re: #19 Cato the Elder
Can the genie get Sarah Palin a talk show?
Why? Because you think it'll make her look bad?
| 28 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:42:29pm |
re: #26 jorline
Can the genie get blueherron to appear on a thread verses stealth?
Now that I'd like to see.
| 29 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:43:13pm |
re: #26 jorline
Can the genie get blueherron to appear on a thread verses stealth?
Oh Blueherron, Blueherron... this is the Lizard Genie... Come out, come out wherever you are...
3, 2, 1...
Abracadabra...
| 30 |
soxfan4life Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:44:22pm |
| 31 |
jorline Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:45:02pm |
re: #29 Gus 802
Oh Blueherron, Blueherron... this is the Lizard Genie... Come out, come out wherever you are...
3, 2, 1...
Abracadabra...
For some reason I feel a downding coming from out of thin air...lol
| 32 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:45:31pm |
re: #31 jorline
For some reason I feel a downding coming from out of thin air...lol
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Can't win 'em all you know. ;)
| 33 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:46:09pm |
| 34 |
doppelganglander Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:46:59pm |
re: #26 jorline
Can the genie get blueherron to appear on a thread verses stealth?
What's up with that? I thought he/she had been banned, but I saw him/her dinging away this afternoon. Did Charles grant a reprieve?
| 35 |
freetoken Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:47:14pm |
re: #25 JCM
Obama Underwrites Offshore Drilling
.
.
Unfortunately...
.
In Brazil
Why "unfortunately"?
| 38 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:47:57pm |
re: #36 MikeySDCA
Can "ding" be used as a verb? If so, what is the past tense? "Dung"?
Perhaps so. Ask Cato. ;)
| 39 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:47:57pm |
| 40 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:48:08pm |
| 41 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:48:50pm |
| 42 |
horse Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:49:07pm |
re: #36 MikeySDCA
Can "ding" be used as a verb? If so, what is the past tense? "Dung"?
I dong know, it's a dang hard question.
| 44 |
doppelganglander Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:49:25pm |
| 45 |
jorline Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:49:31pm |
re: #34 doppelganglander
What's up with that? I thought he/she had been banned, but I saw him/her dinging away this afternoon. Did Charles grant a reprieve?
Don't know, but Charles said he allowed a few banned lizards back in today during the open registration.
| 46 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:49:35pm |
Hey, I could use a magic genie!
And I'm NOT a major sports star!
(Yet...)
| 47 |
horse Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:50:58pm |
Maybe he'll lend the genie to President Obama so he can conjure up a few million jobs.
| 48 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:51:29pm |
re: #33 Cato the Elder
Umm...yeah.
What did she do to you that your hate her so much? You're normally quite rational, Cato, and I respect your opinion even when I disagree with you. But you seem to have contracted a really nasty case of PBS.
| 49 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:51:55pm |
re: #47 horse
Maybe he'll lend the genie to President Obama so he can conjure up a few million jobs.
someone has to monitor the fishy email site
| 51 |
NelsFree Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:52:26pm |
The correct name for Genie is Jinn, in Arabic. Personally, I don't care, though. Jinn were created from, well, let's have the Koran tell us:
Koran, Surah 15, verse 27:
"We brought man into being from dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud, and the Jinn We had brought into being before from the fire of a glowing blast."
/It's in the Koran
| 52 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:52:40pm |
re: #25 JCM
That whole thing sounds fishy. Are we going to see campaign contributions come flooding into Obamanation in 2012 like the Chinese counterparts to the Clintons?
| 53 |
swamprat Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:53:08pm |
re: #35 freetoken
Smart move.
Screws Chavez a bunch.
Lowers demand.
Screws the Middle East a little.
Saves our resources for the real shortages.(as long as we buy from others, we retain our cushion)
| 54 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:53:18pm |
re: #48 Dark_Falcon
What did she do to you that your hate her so much? You're normally quite rational, Cato, and I respect your opinion even when I disagree with you. But you seem to have contracted a really nasty case of PBS.
Let's just say I have a thing for wolves and leave it at that, shall we?
| 56 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:53:38pm |
re: #51 NelsFree
The correct name for Genie is Jinn, in Arabic. Personally, I don't care, though. Jinn were created from, well, let's have the Koran tell us:
Koran, Surah 15, verse 27:
"We brought man into being from dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud, and the Jinn We had brought into being before from the fire of a glowing blast."
/It's in the Koran
I'll have a jinn and tonic!
| 57 |
jorline Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:53:58pm |
From this moment on...all blueherron dings will be refereed to as dingle-berries.
| 58 |
Mich-again Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:54:26pm |
| 59 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:54:35pm |
re: #56 calcajun
I'll have a jinn and tonic!
Don't drink too much jinn otherwise you might get all jinngoistic on us.
| 60 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:55:01pm |
re: #51 NelsFree
The correct name for Genie is Jinn, in Arabic. Personally, I don't care, though. Jinn were created from, well, let's have the Koran tell us:
Koran, Surah 15, verse 27:
"We brought man into being from dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud, and the Jinn We had brought into being before from the fire of a glowing blast."
/It's in the Koran
Then it must be true. The Sun revolves around the Earth. That's in the book too.
| 61 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:55:04pm |
| 62 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:55:04pm |
re: #54 Cato the Elder
Let's just say I have a thing for wolves and leave it at that, shall we?
So it is the wolf hunts she OK'd that you oppose?
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:55:49pm |
re: #59 Gus 802
Don't drink too much jinn otherwise you might get all jinngoistic on us.
How about a nice game of jinn rummy?
| 65 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:56:27pm |
re: #29 Gus 802
Oh Blueherron, Blueherron... this is the Lizard Genie... Come out, come out wherever you are...
3, 2, 1...
Abracadabra...
I saw Blueherron post not too long ago.
| 67 |
jorline Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:57:02pm |
Time to call it a night...see ya tomorrow.
btw...what time are morning prayers?
| 68 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:57:08pm |
OT: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession...again.
MEXICO CITY - Mexico enacted a controversial law on Thursday that decriminalizes possession of small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs while encouraging free government treatment for drug dependency.
The law defines "personal use" amounts for drugs, also including LSD and methamphetamines. People detained with those quantities no longer face criminal prosecution when the law goes into effect on Friday.
| 69 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:57:30pm |
| 70 |
freetoken Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:57:35pm |
re: #50 JCM
But that doesn't make sense of the sentence...
The whole purpose of the Export-Import Bank:
The U.S. Export-Import Bank (Ex-Im Bank) is the principal government agency responsible for aiding the export of American goods and services, and thereby creating and sustaining U.S. jobs, through a variety of loan, guarantee, and insurance programs. Generally, its programs are available to any American export firm regardless of size. Similar banks, or export credit agencies (ECAs), are operated by a number of foreign countries[citation needed]. Many ECAs agree to conduct their activities by following a set of common rules and principles through their membership in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD); these ECAs are generally in the so-called "developed" countries. The goal is to permit exporters in various countries to compete on the basis of the quality of their goods and services, not on preferential financing terms. Other ECAs, such as the China Exim Bank (in the People's Republic of China) do not abide by the OECD rules...
The Tupi field is somewhat speculative. The drilling necessary will be quite expensive. By loaning Petrobras money we are, so to speak, "greasing the skids" for Petrobras to contract with US oil companies to do some of the work.
BTW, the China's equivalent bank is doing the same thing. This is all part of the big-picture resource competition that is going on globally.
| 71 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:58:06pm |
re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist
I saw Blueherron post not too long ago.
Where? Tell me so I can downding him.
| 72 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:58:10pm |
re: #67 jorline
Time to call it a night...see ya tomorrow.
btw...what time are morning prayers?
I don't Let me check. I'll be back in a minaret.
| 73 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:58:12pm |
re: #48 Dark_Falcon
But you seem to have contracted a really nasty case of PBS.
That Big Bird is a real fucker, isn't he? Who does he think he is?
;)
| 74 |
Fenris Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:58:19pm |
re: #68 CommonCents
OT: Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession...again.
Booking plane tickets. Um...for prescription drugs.
| 77 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:58:50pm |
re: #73 Slumbering Behemoth
That Big Bird is a real fucker, isn't he? Who does he think he is?
;)
Can it, Oscar.
| 78 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:58:53pm |
| 79 |
freetoken Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:59:11pm |
re: #74 fenrisdesigns
Hah! Just walk across the border for an afternoon soirée ...
| 80 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:59:20pm |
re: #74 fenrisdesigns
Booking plane tickets. Um...for prescription drugs.
Gotta get that prescription meth for my mood swings.
| 81 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 8:59:28pm |
| 83 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:00:06pm |
re: #51 NelsFree
The correct name for Genie is Jinn, in Arabic. Personally, I don't care, though. Jinn were created from, well, let's have the Koran tell us:
Koran, Surah 15, verse 27:
"We brought man into being from dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud, and the Jinn We had brought into being before from the fire of a glowing blast."
/It's in the Koran
I think 'jinn' is masculine and plural, and 'jinni', anglicized to 'genie', is the feminine form.
As for the Koran, Genesis 6:4 lets us know:
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
| 86 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:00:30pm |
re: #80 CommonCents
Gotta get that prescription meth for my mood swings.
I suspect there's gonna be a lot "high strung" muscle-bound types on the return trips.
| 87 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:00:32pm |
re: #51 NelsFree
The correct name for Genie is Jinn, in Arabic. Personally, I don't care, though. Jinn were created from, well, let's have the Koran tell us:
Koran, Surah 15, verse 27:
"We brought man into being from dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud, and the Jinn We had brought into being before from the fire of a glowing blast."
/It's in the Koran
Quite. As with most else in the Koran, this is derivative, viz. the Greek salamander.
| 88 |
Fenris Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:00:44pm |
re: #80 CommonCents
Gotta get that prescription meth for my mood swings.
Then there's the Dave Barry method: go to Miami, stick your head out a window, and yell, "Hey, I need some crack!"
| 89 |
doppelganglander Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:01:01pm |
re: #66 Macker
Aren't djinnis Muslim?
Pre-Muslim Arabian, but they were adopted into Islam as well. According to Wiki:
Amongst archaeologists dealing with ancient Middle Eastern cultures, any spirit lesser than angels is often referred to as a djinn, especially when describing stone carvings or other forms of art.
The pre-Islamic Zoroastrian culture of ancient Persia believed in jaini/jahi, evil female spirits thought to spread diseases to people. However, Zoroaster himself did not believe in the existence of evil female spirits thought to spread diseases to people.
Inscriptions found in Northwestern Arabia seem to indicate the worship of djinn, or at least their tributary status. For instance, an inscription from Beth Fasi'el near Palmyra pays tribute to the "Ginnaye", the "good and rewarding gods"[6] providing a sharp resemblance to the Latin Genius and Juno: The Guardian Spirits.
Types of djinn include the Shaitan, the Ghul, the Marid, the Ifrit and the Jinn. According to the information in The Arabian Nights, Ifrit seem to be the strongest form of djinn, followed by Marid, and then the rest of the djinn forms.
| 90 |
Mich-again Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:01:06pm |
Sarah Palin's Facebook page is rockin! She has lots of fans.
| 91 |
calcajun Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:01:13pm |
| 93 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:01:26pm |
re: #80 CommonCents
Gotta get that prescription meth for my mood swings.
It does lead to a particular acting meth head.
| 94 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:01:51pm |
re: #48 Dark_Falcon
What did she do to you that your hate her so much? You're normally quite rational, Cato, and I respect your opinion even when I disagree with you. But you seem to have contracted a really nasty case of PDS.
PIMF Sorry, I've had a long day.
| 96 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:02:01pm |
| 97 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:02:22pm |
re: #71 Dark_Falcon
Where? Tell me so I can downding him.
I don't recall, actually. Just the last couple of days. If you go to [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] you can check all the recent comments.
Of which there are, I believe, fourteen.
| 98 |
Occasional Reader Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:02:27pm |
re: #73 Slumbering Behemoth
That Big Bird is a real fucker, isn't he? Who does he think he is?
;)
Dave Chappelle, talking about Sesame Street.
(Not suitable for children, etc.)
| 99 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:02:29pm |
re: #62 Dark_Falcon
So it is the wolf hunts she OK'd that you oppose?
We could start there. How much time do you have?
;^)
| 100 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:02:56pm |
re: #90 Mich-again
Sarah Palin's Facebook page is rockin! She has lots of fans.
Beautiful woman tend to have a lot of fans. Just one of those facts of life.
| 103 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:03:49pm |
re: #86 calcajun
I suspect there's gonna be a lot "high strung" muscle-bound types on the return trips.
Funny, I was told that Mexico only had drugs so they could export them to all the U.S. citizen customers that created the demand. Why would any Mexican have anything less than distributional stockpiles?
| 104 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:04:24pm |
re: #90 Mich-again
Sarah Palin's Facebook page is rockin! She has lots of fans.
No one ever lost money underestimating the stupidity of the American public.
| 105 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:05:11pm |
re: #100 Dark_Falcon
Beautiful woman tend to have a lot of fans. Just one of those facts of life.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And wit, in the eye of the witholder.
| 106 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:05:15pm |
re: #99 Cato the Elder
We could start there. How much time do you have?
;^)
I've got about an hour before I have to go to bed. Keep going.
| 107 |
Fenris Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:05:15pm |
There are cases where The Onion comes frighteningly close to reality. A recent video for instance, in which a women's rights group rips on PETA for degrading women. I think I saw a report like that a year or so back, like, the non-parody kind.
| 108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:05:29pm |
re: #102 MikeySDCA
Link doesn't work.
I messed it up somehow. If you click on your own avatar, and pull up your karma and recent quotes, and then type someone else's handle instead of your own on the end of the URL, that works too.
| 109 |
Mich-again Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:05:50pm |
re: #100 Dark_Falcon
Beautiful woman tend to have a lot of fans. Just one of those facts of life.
There are dozens of close up photos of her there and lots of homespun wisdom from her fans.
| 110 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:05:59pm |
re: #105 Cato the Elder
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And wit, in the eye of the witholder.
[smiles] upding.
| 112 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:06:20pm |
re: #77 OldLineTexan
Can it, Oscar.
Hey, if you think you can just Elmo your way into this conversation and act like some kind of Gonzo Animal, than you can just Count me out of this discussion.
| 113 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:06:24pm |
Zogby: Obama Hits Record Low in Poll
President Barack Obama's popularity has plummeted to a record low, with just 45 percent of voters now approving of his performance, according to the latest Zogby International poll.
Better Hope for some more Change.
What was Bush's approval rating 8 months in?
| 114 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:07:27pm |
re: #100 Dark_Falcon
Beautiful woman tend to have a lot of fans. Just one of those facts of life.
Like Jenny McCarthy. Who also happens to be a genius.
//
| 115 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:08:12pm |
re: #113 Racer X
Better Hope for some more Change.
What was Bush's approval rating 8 months in?
I believe he needed 9/11 to get it into the double digits. Ask Charles.
| 116 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:08:44pm |
re: #100 Dark_Falcon
Beautiful woman tend to have a lot of fans. Just one of those facts of life.
Since we're on the topic :) Remember the day when female athletes were all kinda butch? Have you seen the LPGA lineup recently. Golf is hot! Who knew?
| 117 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:10:07pm |
re: #114 Gus 802
Like Jenny McCarthy. Who also happens to be a genius.
//
Good point. Still, her looks have gotten her a lot of fans and that has given her a platform from which to spew her Bad Craziness.
| 118 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:10:31pm |
re: #109 Mich-again
There are dozens of close up photos of her there and lots of homespun wisdom from her fans.
Homespun wisdom = too poor for anything you'd say in company.
| 119 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:10:54pm |
re: #113 Racer X
Better Hope for some more Change.
What was Bush's approval rating 8 months in?
That's not out yet. Looking at the Zogby site it says:
Released: August 20, 2009
Developing—Obama hits record low in Zogby Interactive—45% approve…
Story developing, check back for a full release tomorrow.
(8/20/2009)
| 120 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:11:15pm |
| 121 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:11:17pm |
re: #115 Cato the Elder
I believe he needed 9/11 to get it into the double digits. Ask Charles.
I believe Bush was in the low 50's.
| 122 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:12:17pm |
re: #117 Dark_Falcon
Good point. Still, her looks have gotten her a lot of fans and that has given her a platform from which to spew her Bad Craziness.
Heck yeah. That's like being tall. People will tend to take a tall person seriously even if they're a complete fool. I think it relates to our animal instincts.
| 123 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:12:43pm |
re: #121 Racer X
I believe Bush was in the low 50's.
Well, maybe Obama should ignore a security briefing or two and see what happens.
| 124 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:12:47pm |
| 125 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:13:06pm |
| 126 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:13:56pm |
| 127 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:14:12pm |
re: #125 Racer X
Interesting chart. Bush did not dip below 50% until almost a year after we went in to Iraq.
It's just important to remember that TEN is "double digits".
| 128 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:14:13pm |
Like it could be 45% disapprove and 45% approve while 10% don't know. ;)
| 129 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:14:40pm |
re: #123 Cato the Elder
Well, maybe Obama should ignore a security briefing or two and see what happens.
Perhaps Obama should pay more attention to what Americans really think is important.
| 131 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:15:43pm |
re: #129 Racer X
Perhaps Obama should pay more attention to what Americans really think is important.
Like big tits, NASCAR, cheap gas and fart jokes?
| 132 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:15:55pm |
Do you believe in oxygen?
40% - yes
30% - no
25% - don't know
5% - what's oxygen?
| 133 |
soxfan4life Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:16:04pm |
re: #129 Racer X
Perhaps Obama should pay more attention to what Americans really think is important.
Don't you know, America needs to listen to 0bama to know what is important.///
| 134 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:16:22pm |
re: #130 MikeySDCA
Since when did he give a shit?
Hey give the guy credit. He did buy a cop and a scholar a beer recently.
| 135 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:16:38pm |
| 136 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:16:48pm |
re: #123 Cato the Elder
Well, maybe Obama should ignore a security briefing or two and see what happens.
Not a chance, those Obamatons are on our national security like stink on sh*t. Those evil doers don't stand a chance with "Iron Barack" at the helm.
| 137 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:16:59pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Like big tits, NASCAR, cheap gas and fart jokes?
Yes, but not necessarily in that order.
| 138 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:17:01pm |
re: #123 Cato the Elder
Well, maybe Obama should ignore a security briefing or two and see what happens.
Nothing would. He's already hired all the terrorists to do the next census. Or was that just convicts? Wait, no, it's the non-partisan folks over at Acorn. I might have some facts mixed up there.
/
| 139 |
OldLineTexan Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:17:04pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Like big tits, NASCAR, cheap gas and fart jokes?
I am liking your platform so far ... what is your position on free gas, paying my mortgage, and giving me free healthcare?
| 140 |
soxfan4life Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:17:13pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Like big tits, NASCAR, cheap gas and fart jokes?
You say that like it is a bad thing.
| 141 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:17:38pm |
re: #122 Gus 802
Heck yeah. That's like being tall. People will tend to take a tall person seriously even if they're a complete fool. I think it relates to our animal instincts.
It can also be intimidation as well. I've forced small people to concede argues simply by moving in close and crowding them. I'm not proud of it, but I've done it (though never at work).
| 142 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:18:11pm |
re: #134 Racer X
Hey give the guy credit. He did buy a cop and a scholar a beer recently.
He's already got 1.5 Trillion on credit.
| 143 |
JCM Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:18:26pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Like big tits, NASCAR, cheap gas and fart jokes?
| 144 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:18:59pm |
I suspect our progressive seminar commenters will be busy spinning this information tomorrow through the weekend...
Charlie Cook: Dem situation has 'slipped completely out of control'
Charlie Cook, one of the best political handicappers in the business, sent out a special update to Cook Political Report subscribers Thursday that should send shivers down Democratic spines.
Reviewing recent polling and the 2010 election landscape, Cook can envision a scenario in which Democratic House losses could exceed 20 seats.
"These data confirm anecdotal evidence, and our own view, that the situation this summer has slipped completely out of control for President Obama and Congressional Democrats. Today, The Cook Political Report’s Congressional election model, based on individual races, is pointing toward a net Democratic loss of between six and 12 seats, but our sense, factoring in macro-political dynamics is that this is far too low," he wrote.
"Many veteran Congressional election watchers, including Democratic ones, report an eerie sense of déjà vu, with a consensus forming that the chances of Democratic losses going higher than 20 seats is just as good as the chances of Democratic losses going lower than 20 seats."
Cook scrupulously avoided any mention that Democratic control of the House is in jeopardy but, noting a new Gallup poll showing Congress’ job disapproval at 70 percent among independents, concluded that the post-recess environment could feel considerably different than when Congress left in August.
"We believe it would be a mistake to underestimate the impact that this mood will have on Members of Congress of both parties when they return to Washington in September, if it persists through the end of the Congressional recess."
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 145 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:19:00pm |
re: #142 CommonCents
He's already got 1.5 Trillion on credit.
The "AtOurExpense Card", don't leave the White House without it.
| 146 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:19:01pm |
Good evening morning y'all - how is everyone doing this evening/early morning?
| 147 |
soxfan4life Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:19:22pm |
re: #142 CommonCents
He's already got 1.5 Trillion on credit.
That's only because he didn't realize how bad things really were.///
| 148 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:20:05pm |
re: #141 Dark_Falcon
It can also be intimidation as well. I've forced small people to concede argues simply by moving in close and crowding them. I'm not proud of it, but I've done it (though never at work).
It can happen. Actually, wearing glasses will create a behavior response as well. One thing like being tall is that it also creates positive social rewarding of sorts so effectively it helps create leadership characteristics sometimes. If that makes any sense.
| 149 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:20:34pm |
| 150 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:20:47pm |
re: #146 realwest
Good
eveningmorning y'all - how is everyone doing this evening/early morning?
Hi RW!
Hows it hangin?
| 151 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:21:09pm |
re: #149 Desert Dog
Needs more bass...I suggest they add a little more beer to the diet
And popcorn.
| 153 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:21:54pm |
re: #149 Desert Dog
Needs more bass...I suggest they add a little more beer to the diet
I agree. That's a little squeaky.
| 154 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:21:57pm |
re: #148 Gus 802
It can happen. Actually, wearing glasses will create a behavior response as well. One thing like being tall is that it also creates positive social rewarding of sorts so effectively it helps create leadership characteristics sometimes. If that makes any sense.
It does make sense. Thank you for the insight.
| 155 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:22:49pm |
re: #146 realwest
Good
eveningmorning y'all - how is everyone doing this evening/early morning?
We are all wee weed up.
| 156 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:22:53pm |
re: #131 Cato the Elder
Like big tits, NASCAR, cheap gas and fart jokes?
I'll take tits of any size, HEAVY METAL, cheap beer, and hooker jokes.
If that ain't part of your political platform, then you're just a dirty commie.
| 157 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:22:53pm |
re: #144 Walter L. Newton
Obama is dragging the Democrat party down. Sad in a way.
Sorry - I can barely type that without giggling.
| 158 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:22:56pm |
re: #150 Racer X
Hi Racer X - I'm kinda tired out - long day of chores, minor health scare with mom, telephone fist fight with some nasty folks...so I'm kinda tuckered out here tonight.
How are y'all doing?
| 159 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:23:57pm |
re: #148 Gus 802
It can happen. Actually, wearing glasses will create a behavior response as well. One thing like being tall is that it also creates positive social rewarding of sorts so effectively it helps create leadership characteristics sometimes. If that makes any sense.
Great, I am 5'1" and I wear glasses, AND, I am the President of Iran!
I am thinking the latest shoewear by Otis Elevators may help.
| 160 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:24:30pm |
re: #158 realwest
Not bad at all RW. Tired from a long day working for the man.
| 161 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:24:59pm |
re: #159 Desert Dog
Great, I am 5'1" and I wear glasses, AND, I am the President of Iran!
I am thinking the latest shoewear by Otis Elevators may help.
Those are some serious clown shoes.
Where's the dinner jacket? /
| 162 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:25:04pm |
re: #138 CommonCents
Nothing would. He's already hired all the terrorists to do the next census. Or was that just convicts? Wait, no, it's the non-partisan folks over at Acorn. I might have some facts mixed up there.
/
You might, at that. Just ask Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin, they'll tell you what to think.
| 163 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:25:11pm |
re: #148 Gus 802
It can happen. Actually, wearing glasses will create a behavior response as well. One thing like being tall is that it also creates positive social rewarding of sorts so effectively it helps create leadership characteristics sometimes. If that makes any sense.
These tall stereotypes all tie together. Tall people get picked for leadership positions but also tend to be branded as slow and oafish. That must be why everyone thinks management is clueless.
| 164 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:26:02pm |
re: #160 Racer X
Well hell, Racer X, at least y'all have a job, you should take some solace in that!
| 165 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:26:11pm |
re: #156 Slumbering Behemoth
I'll take tits of any size, HEAVY METAL, cheap beer, and hooker jokes.
If that ain't part of your political platform, then you're just a dirty commie.
Shit! I left out video games. You also must have cheap and easy access to violent video games as part of your political platform, otherwise you a no good commie nazi.
| 166 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:26:53pm |
re: #144 Walter L. Newton
Health care is going to be Obama's "Don't ask don't tell" in which he takes a compromise that makes the problem worse while alienating core constituencies. But the problem for him is that everyone has a dog in the health care fight.
| 167 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:27:34pm |
re: #161 Gus 802
Those are some serious clown shoes.
Where's the dinner jacket? /
| 168 |
JCM Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:27:42pm |
re: #165 Slumbering Behemoth
Shit! I left out video games. You also must have cheap and easy access to violent video games as part of your political platform, otherwise you a no good commie nazi.
| 169 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:27:52pm |
re: #163 CommonCents
These tall stereotypes all tie together. Tall people get picked for leadership positions but also tend to be branded as slow and oafish. That must be why everyone thinks management is clueless.
ROTFLMAO! I've read books that claim that taller people tend to be more successful in business and you may be right - maybe they get up the ladder without a clue! LOL!
| 170 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:28:08pm |
re: #162 Cato the Elder
You might, at that. Just ask Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin, they'll tell you what to think.
don't lump those two together Cato. Sarah Palin isn't nuts like Glen Beck. And even if you think she is, at least admit she's much nicer than he is.
| 171 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:28:09pm |
re: #162 Cato the Elder
You might, at that. Just ask Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin, they'll tell you what to think.
Thanks for the tip. I'm off to "friend" Sarah Palin on Facebook. I'll let her know what a great job your doing for her campaign.
| 172 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:28:37pm |
re: #163 CommonCents
These tall stereotypes all tie together. Tall people get picked for leadership positions but also tend to be branded as slow and oafish. That must be why everyone thinks management is clueless.
Could be an old pattern. That is old as in era. We all of course have met people of varying talents regardless of height. Sometimes you will find people that might be slow and oafish yet they are effective. Other times the might be sharp and quick yet ineffective. Guess this is all pretty obvious. :)
| 173 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:29:14pm |
re: #162 Cato the Elder
You might, at that. Just ask Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin, they'll tell you what to think.
Are you recovering from your accident?
| 175 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:29:31pm |
re: #169 realwest
ROTFLMAO! I've read books that claim that taller people tend to be more successful in business and you may be right - maybe they get up the ladder without a clue! LOL!
That's how it works at my bank. If someone is too dumb to do their job, promote them.
| 176 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:29:59pm |
re: #166 karmic_inquisitor
Health care is going to be Obama's "Don't ask don't tell" in which he takes a compromise that makes the problem worse while alienating core constituencies. But the problem for him is that everyone has a dog in the health care fight.
So that makes the question "How do we get the dogs in the fight to bite Obama on the ass?"
//
| 179 |
JCM Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:30:26pm |
re: #174 realwest
Hey there jcm, how are you doing tonight?
Excellent! The ravening horde is in bed, just ate a late dinner and catching up on what's happenin' in Lizardom.
| 180 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:30:46pm |
re: #146 realwest
{{{Realwest}}}
Hey there!
Today was GREAT! Took the 4 kiddos to the beach at low tide & crawled around the rocks looking at the critters! Hope you are well? And had a good day?
| 181 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:31:15pm |
re: #175 CommonCents
That's how it works at my bank. If someone is too dumb to do their job, promote them.
I knew there was a reason I was the boss! I am not tall though. But, I hear the incredibly good looking get advanced more often than the fugly.
| 183 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:32:05pm |
Ok, I'm back. FINALLY got thru all of Book 1 of Paradise Lost. Deep stuff. Beautiful really.
What's going on?
| 184 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:32:09pm |
re: #181 Desert Dog
I knew there was a reason I was the boss! I am not tall though. But, I hear the incredibly good looking get advanced more often than the fugly.
Nothing like a little self-confidence. That's my motto.
| 185 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:32:12pm |
re: #180 Floral Giraffe
{{{Realwest}}}
Hey there!
Today was GREAT! Took the 4 kiddos to the beach at low tide & crawled around the rocks looking at the critters! Hope you are well? And had a good day?
Sounds like a nice day..what beach did you hit?
| 186 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:33:05pm |
re: #182 MikeySDCA
Heinrich Himmler was much nicer than he is.
Forget your SARC tag? I'm not a Glenn Beck fan either, but Himmler?
| 187 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:33:12pm |
re: #168 JCM
Oh, that is funny. Saints Row 2 has nut shot stats as well.
| 188 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:33:20pm |
re: #183 ggt
Ok, I'm back. FINALLY got thru all of Book 1 of Paradise Lost. Deep stuff. Beautiful really.
What's going on?
We're thinking of ways to help Obama improve his job approval rating. Any ideas?
| 190 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:33:57pm |
re: #188 Racer X
We're thinking of ways to help Obama improve his job approval rating. Any ideas?
Resign.
| 191 |
doppelganglander Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:34:47pm |
re: #188 Racer X
We're thinking of ways to help Obama improve his job approval rating. Any ideas?
Retire.
| 192 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:34:50pm |
| 193 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:34:52pm |
re: #175 CommonCents
Well unfortunately that tends to be true in a lot of companies - or worse, from both the company's pov and the individual - the individual is REALLY good at his job and is then promoted to suprevise more junior people who are laboring in the same fields as he is. Turns out that he's good at supervising them but is spending less time actually doing his "regular" job; but it's suddenly his supervisory/training that gets noticed by higher ups, and so he starts doing more and more supervising and training than the regular job at which he excelled. Then gets an offer from someone else for the same or more money to just do the orignial job at which he was so good and quits, leaving the company with paritally trained "juniors" and one less truly competent person at the "job"!
| 194 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:35:02pm |
World sets ocean temperature record
The average water temperature worldwide was 62.6 degrees, according to the National Climatic Data Center, the branch of the U.S. government that keeps world weather records. That was 1.1 degree higher than the 20th century average, and beat the previous high set in 1998 by a couple hundredths of a degree. The coolest recorded ocean temperature was 59.3 degrees in December 1909.
| 195 |
wee fury Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:35:23pm |
re: #189 JCM
I don't know. But, I feel like I am being slandered.
| 196 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:35:26pm |
| 197 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:35:32pm |
| 199 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:36:07pm |
re: #185 Desert Dog
Orange County Coast, I think they're calling it the Crystal Cove State Park, these days, althought the State has LONG AGO pulled the plug on any work. It's been at a standstill for 18 months or so. Lovely coastline. Nice sandy beaches, interspersed with rocky outcrops. LOTS of tide pools!
| 201 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:36:19pm |
re: #178 wee fury
Short people unite! Carry Machetes with you !! Cut 'em down to size.
/
| 202 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:36:41pm |
| 203 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:36:42pm |
| 204 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:37:11pm |
re: #199 Floral Giraffe
Orange County Coast, I think they're calling it the Crystal Cove State Park, these days, althought the State has LONG AGO pulled the plug on any work. It's been at a standstill for 18 months or so. Lovely coastline. Nice sandy beaches, interspersed with rocky outcrops. LOTS of tide pools!
Nice, I like that part of California. I have an aunt and uncle that live in Fountain Valley.
| 205 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:37:20pm |
re: #188 Racer X
We're thinking of ways to help Obama improve his job approval rating. Any ideas?
Well . . ., show that he actually understands the fact that he has never held a real job and respects those who do.
| 206 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:37:22pm |
Just an observation.
Obama's health care plan will be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it and whose members will be exempt from it, signed by a president who is a closet smoker, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that is nearly broke. Great role models.What could possibly go wrong?
Heh.
| 207 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:37:25pm |
re: #193 realwest
Fortunately I'm very good at what I do and I have no desire to be a manager. If I wanted to deal with everyone elses personal problems I would have gotten into Human Resources or Psychology.
| 208 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:37:36pm |
re: #194 Sharmuta
Breaking heat records in water is more ominous as a sign of global warming than breaking temperature marks on land, because water takes longer to heat up and does not cool off as easily as land.
| 209 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:37:46pm |
re: #177 MikeySDCA
It took a while, but everybody is coming to understand that Bambi is a four-flusher and a lame. The next act will be very amusing. Popcorn, anyone?
Well we get 3+ more years and a lot can happen.
Clinton got reelected in a walk because the economy recovered and people stopped paying attention to politics as a result. Obama will get a recovery although he seems intent on sucking it dry.
His advisers are likely to have him get some sort of law passed that he can call health care reform, but if things end up working in Washington the way they normally do, the insurance companies will end up writing much of that legislation which will allow for some form of universal coverage but end up jacking rates and creating more barriers to entry for new competitors (big players with lobbyists don't beleive in competition any more than ACORN does).
Point is he will position himself to have a "success" story and hope that America goes back to the malls and simply re-elects him without much thought. Odds are in his favor but he seems adept at screwing up a good start.
| 210 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:38:05pm |
re: #192 Gus 802
Is that like pissed off?
I'm thinking more like the little piggy who cried "wee, wee, wee" all the way home.
He wee-wee'd.
| 211 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:38:14pm |
| 214 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:38:28pm |
re: #208 Sharmuta
Breaking heat records in water is more ominous as a sign of global warming than breaking temperature marks on land, because water takes longer to heat up and does not cool off as easily as land.
It is another El Nino this year?
| 215 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:38:39pm |
| 216 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:38:39pm |
re: #208 Sharmuta
repost since you are up here...
re: #1226 Sharmuta
Ludwig- perhaps you could help Syrah and I. I know in the past you've posted a few examples of ways America could deal with climate change that wouldn't be too costly. Could you list those again for us, please. Thank you.
Sorry that I was offline...
Now as to policy, and this is a matter of my opinion about what I think we should do, not a matter of the science behind the threat, I would do the following last year.
1. Start switching over to nuclear power. It is possible with the new ceramics available to construct reactors that can not melt down. This must be a massive, well run, tightly regulated endeavor. It has to be run the way the Navy does it, and not by MBA's who are willing to cut corners to increase profits. I personally do not care if it is a public/private partnership or a completely government run affair. I care that we stop burning fossil fuels as our primary means of generating electricity. I also care that we do it safely.
2. The limitations to solar and wind is battery storage. New batteries are available that solve this problem. We have to get those batteries out there so that electric cars are really practical and we have to give massive tax incentives to homeowners, factory owners and malls to install solar panels. This will not solve all of our energy needs, but it is a low hanging fruit that will cut down individual and business electricity consumption from the grid by a tremendous amount.
3. Stop buying so much disposable crap from Chinese and Indian sweatshops. Use a carrot and stick on them to get them more green.
4. In of themselves, even without the threat of AGW, these things would give America energy independence, staunch the flow of billions of dollars to hostile governments that hate us and improve living conditions for the average American through cleaner air and water. This would create entire industries and tens of thousands of jobs. In the long run, the investment would pay for itself. The only foreign people to be really hurt by theses measures will be the Saudis, the Venezuelans and others like them who hate us anyway. Domestically it will be hard on the oil industry and the coal industry. That can not be avoided.
| 218 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:39:06pm |
re: #208 Sharmuta
Breaking heat records in water is more ominous as a sign of global warming than breaking temperature marks on land, because water takes longer to heat up and does not cool off as easily as land.
The planet was once covered with ice. That was called the Ice Age. It isn't anymore, ergo the Earth is warming. Thanks for the Fox News Alert.
| 219 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:40:01pm |
re: #214 Desert Dog
It is another El Nino this year?
Yep.
El Niño persisted across the equatorial Pacific Ocean during July 2009. Related sea-surface temperature (SST) anomalies increased for the sixth consecutive month.
| 221 |
NY Nana Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:41:01pm |
re: #178 wee fury
Short people, unite! Wear stilettos.
Now you tell me? I am a towering 5' tall, and can't wear high heels anymore...I was 5'2 years ago. I still ROTFL, as I was walking to a supermarket with a son and my only daughter, both of whom are tall, and a friend stopped to say hello...asked the kids what they were doing, and they both said, at the same time 'We're walking our mother'...now? My 7 and 9-year old granddaughters now measure themselves against my shoulders, and smirk! The almost-3 year old grandson is still too short to try. ;)
| 222 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:41:03pm |
re: #183 ggt
Ok, I'm back. FINALLY got thru all of Book 1 of Paradise Lost. Deep stuff. Beautiful really.
What's going on?
We're just waiting on your book report on Book 1 of Paradise Lost!
| 223 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:41:12pm |
re: #204 Desert Dog
Nice, I like that part of California. I have an aunt and uncle that live in Fountain Valley.
Iva nephew that lives there.
| 224 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:41:21pm |
re: #200 MikeySDCA
Sorry, though Heini was generally quiet and mild-mannered, as opposed to a loud-mouthed phony-friendly.
Mikey -- think before you post, Himmler killed 6 million Jews in WW2, I think that more than offsets any positive qualities he may have had.
| 225 |
Mich-again Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:41:34pm |
re: #194 Sharmuta
There are like 10^20th pounds of water in the oceans. One BTU for each pound of water to raise it 1 degree F. Thats a lot of BTU's. Maybe even more than mankind uses in a year?
| 226 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:41:47pm |
I think Perhaps Obama could win some points by acknowledging that Doctors should not earn less than Lawyers on average. That Doctors can be sued, but Lawyers, (de facto) cannot. That Lawyers, perhaps, have misued the system in their favor.
| 227 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:42:10pm |
re: #215 realwest
I wish you a MUCH better day tomorrow. And, I know you wish for a good day too.
{{RW}}
| 228 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:42:31pm |
Wee Weed beeecause wee neeed fewer weeeds.
| 229 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:42:45pm |
re: #218 CommonCents
The planet was once covered with ice. That was called the Ice Age. It isn't anymore, ergo the Earth is warming. Thanks for the Fox News Alert.
The planet once had no poles and Greenland and Canada and Siberia were covered in vegetation. About 1/2 of America's populace lives in places that were underwater then.
This is not a good argument.
Also see the hammer I wrote about there are always cycles...
| 230 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:43:26pm |
re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote
You political orientation is more left than right. What, in your opinion, is the main reason the left hates nuclear power so much? It is extremely clean and cost effective. I know we have a problem containing the waste, but that is easy to manage. (or so I hear).
I agree with your statements above...we need to change the way we are doing things now, it is not working.
| 231 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:43:31pm |
re: #214 Desert Dog
It is another El Nino this year?
Yes- but that's in the Pacific. Wouldn't explain higher water temperatures in the Atlantic or Gulf of Mexico or Arctic.
| 232 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:43:56pm |
And this little piggie went wee wee weed all the way home.
| 233 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:44:18pm |
re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote
2. The limitations to solar and wind is battery storage. New batteries are available that solve this problem. We have to get those batteries out there so that electric cars are really practical and we have to give massive tax incentives to homeowners, factory owners and malls to install solar panels. This will not solve all of our energy needs, but it is a low hanging fruit that will cut down individual and business electricity consumption from the grid by a tremendous amount.
And you have a link to this as a fact, that the limitation is battery storage?
Remember, I worked for the National Renewable Energy Lab for 13 years, which was, in the beginning, SERI, the Solar Energy Research Institute. Batteries are not the limiting factor.
Please supply a link to the back up this assertion. You made the comment, now back it up.
| 234 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:44:56pm |
re: #196 Coracle
Leaving Biden in charge would improve his ratings?
Well I'm not so sure that leaving Biden in charge might not improve his ratings, at least Biden is funny (albeit usually unintentionally!).
| 235 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:45:22pm |
I dunno about you guys, but here in SoCal we've had a very mild summer. Heck, my pool is down to 78 degrees!
I'm very disappointed.
| 236 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:46:03pm |
re: #233 Walter L. Newton
And you have a link to this as a fact, that the limitation is battery storage?
Remember, I worked for the National Renewable Energy Lab for 13 years, which was, in the beginning, SERI, the Solar Energy Research Institute. Batteries are not the limiting factor.
Please supply a link to the back up this assertion. You made the comment, now back it up.
| 237 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:46:21pm |
I need my sleep. I'm outta here. Hopefully the planet will still be here when I wake up.re: #229 LudwigVanQuixote
The planet once had no poles and Greenland and Canada and Siberia were covered in vegetation. About 1/2 of America's populace lives in places that were underwater then.
This is not a good argument.
Also see the hammer I wrote about there are always cycles...
You are all into this and are more versed on the topic so perhaps you have a "hammer" for this one too. I saw a story recently about a massive snake fossil that lived in South America. The comment was made that the temperatures would have had to be much higher in order for a creature of that size to survive. What is your take on that?
| 238 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:47:04pm |
re: #235 Racer X
102 in my area today, and I live a bit further north than you. Summer sucks here every year, though.
| 239 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:47:10pm |
re: #225 Mich-again
There are like 10^20th pounds of water in the oceans. One BTU for each pound of water to raise it 1 degree F. Thats a lot of BTU's. Maybe even more than mankind uses in a year?
I don't know- that's over my head, but I did notice it's the same variation as the rest of the AGW data- 1.1 degree higher.
| 240 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:47:20pm |
re: #237 CommonCents
oops. Ignore that top bit, I'll hang around for a little more LVQ.
| 241 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:47:35pm |
re: #170 Dark_Falcon
don't lump those two together Cato. Sarah Palin isn't nuts like Glen Beck. And even if you think she is, at least admit she's much nicer than he is.
Yep, my definition of "nice" is flat-out scare-mongering lies about Obama coming to terminate Down syndrome children, starting with Trig. She's at the same level as Alex Jones, in my book.
As for how nuts she is, we'll see that when she gets her talk show.
| 242 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:48:34pm |
re: #236 Coracle
If this is your answer to my question, then you missed. This has nothing to do with the question I asked Earwig.
Want to play again?
| 243 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:49:06pm |
| 244 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:49:15pm |
re: #235 Racer X
I dunno about you guys, but here in SoCal we've had a very mild summer. Heck, my pool is down to 78 degrees!
I'm very disappointed.
We've had one the hottest summers on record here in Phoenix. The monsoonal pattern that usually brings increased moisture and thunder showers during the summer months has not materialized. And, though we've no had super duper record breaking highs, we've had a constant 110-115 for months, with the lows not going below 90 until just recently. I will be quite happy when the big fireball in sky stops cooking us.
| 245 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:49:17pm |
re: #207 CommonCents
Glad to hear it; I resigned my last law partnership because, in spite of promises to the contrary I DIDN'T get to practice law as much as I wanted to (and really enjoyed doing) and became much more of an administrator for, although I hated it, I apparently did a good job at administration!
| 246 |
Shug Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:49:34pm |
re: #226 ggt
I think Perhaps Obama could win some points by acknowledging that Doctors should not earn less than Lawyers on average. That Doctors can be sued, but Lawyers, (de facto) cannot. That Lawyers, perhaps, have misued the system in their favor.
The TOTUS was purchased by the Trial Lawyers. It won't let him say those things
| 247 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:49:49pm |
re: #242 Walter L. Newton
If this is your answer to my question, then you missed. This has nothing to do with the question I asked Earwig.
Want to play again?
I'll disagree with LVQ and say that batteries are not the limiting factor.
| 248 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:50:15pm |
re: #222 realwest
We're just waiting on your book report on Book 1 of Paradise Lost!
Well . . .
"Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
A mind not to be chang'd by Place or Time.
The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. [ 255 ]
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less then he
Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: [ 260 ]
Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n.
But wherefore let we then our faithful friends,"
My first impressions are that Satan is a stupid teenager (living in Mom's basement) or Osama bin Laden (living in a cave). My mind is actually reeling with memories of other works I've read that, now I realize obviously, were at least partly inspired by Milton. There is a lot here to ponder.
| 249 |
Macker Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:50:17pm |
re: #244 Desert Dog
We've had one the hottest summers on record here in Phoenix. The monsoonal pattern that usually brings increased moisture and thunder showers during the summer months has not materialized. And, though we've no had super duper record breaking highs, we've had a constant 110-115 for months, with the lows not going below 90 until just recently. I will be quite happy when the big fireball in sky stops cooking us.
Dammit Dog...we gotta get together!
| 250 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:50:26pm |
re: #230 Desert Dog
You political orientation is more left than right. What, in your opinion, is the main reason the left hates nuclear power so much? It is extremely clean and cost effective. I know we have a problem containing the waste, but that is easy to manage. (or so I hear).
I agree with your statements above...we need to change the way we are doing things now, it is not working.
Actually, my political orientation is only to the left by the standards of certain posters here. By the standards of my university colleagues I am to the right of Mussolini. What this really makes me is an honest to G-d centrist who cares more about what works and what is true than any particular party affiliation or dogma.
Now why the left hates nuclear is easy.
Atomic weapons are the most horrible thing man has ever made. It is not insane to be weary of atomics. They are terrible things, and anyone who likes them is crazy. That is not to start a debate about the need for deterrence. Every sane person understands this is a necessary evil. However, do not discount that it is an evil either.
Also,
Three Mile Island and Chernobyl are what happens if you do not run these things with great care. Now, new technologies could be deployed to make such scenarios impossible, however the average lefty is just as ignorant of science as the average righty. It is also just a lie to think that righties are ohhh so pro nuclear. Very Republican places are very NIMBY about nuclear plants too.
| 251 |
JCM Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:50:29pm |
New species of worms release 'bombs'
Thousands of feet beneath the sea live worms that can cast off green glowing body parts, a move scientists think may be a defensive effort to confuse attackers. Researchers have dubbed the newly discovered critters "green bombers."
| 252 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:51:40pm |
re: #249 Macker
Dammit Dog...we gotta get together!
Yes, we should meet up for a brewski sometime. What part of town do live? Scottsdale, right? I'm in NE Mesa, but I work in Tempe, near Sky Harbor.
| 253 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:52:05pm |
re: #241 Cato the Elder
Yep, my definition of "nice" is flat-out scare-mongering lies about Obama coming to terminate Down syndrome children, starting with Trig. She's at the same level as Alex Jones, in my book.
As for how nuts she is, we'll see that when she gets her talk show.
I don't think that what she meant. What I think her concern is that government run health care leads to rationing, and she fears that one of the people who will lose under a rationing regime will be her son. And the fear is not irrational, because such a thing might well happen.
| 254 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:52:35pm |
re: #247 Coracle
I'll disagree with LVQ and say that batteries are not the limiting factor.
Got it. Ok. I just wasn't sure on your comment and the reference you linked to. Yes, NREL has some very interesting modeling software that we developed for a number of the different research projects.
And you are correct, batteries are not the limiting factor in a successful solar and wind energy generation loop.
But, I'll wait for Ludwig to enlighten me with his detailed answer.
| 255 |
CommonCents Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:04pm |
re: #251 JCM
Green bombers. Who would have thought a bunch of researchers would come up with a such a cool name.
| 256 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:19pm |
| 257 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:24pm |
re: #227 Floral Giraffe
Hey thank you very much {{{Floral Giraffe}}} and I hope you have a great day tomorrow- er, Friday, too!
| 258 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:33pm |
re: #254 Walter L. Newton
Got it. Ok. I just wasn't sure on your comment and the reference you linked to. Yes, NREL has some very interesting modeling software that we developed for a number of the different research projects.
And you are correct, batteries are not the limiting factor in a successful solar and wind energy generation loop.
But, I'll wait for Ludwig to enlighten me with his detailed answer.
I have a boat with 25 sq ft of solar panels (260 Watts). I can assure you, battery capacity is not my issue.
| 259 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:33pm |
re: #244 Desert Dog
IIRC, monsoons are about annual air current patterns, and not about humidity/moisture. There are dry monsoons and wet monsoons.
This really has nothing to do with your post, I was just wondering if I am remembering correctly.
| 260 |
Macker Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:35pm |
re: #252 Desert Dog
Yes, we should meet up for a brewski sometime. What part of town do live? Scottsdale, right? I'm in NE Mesa, but I work in Tempe, near Sky Harbor.
You don't say! I live on Gilbert Rd. just south of the 60, I work near Tempe Diablo Stadium!
| 261 |
freetoken Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:53:51pm |
re: #230 Desert Dog
It is extremely clean and cost effective.
Nuclear energy is expensive (like most everything else done on a large scale), and is dangerous.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. However, we have to account for the costs properly.
I suspect the "left" (what a poorly defined term, btw) associates "nuclear" with "weapons" on a gut level.
The current light-water nuclear power designs we use are tremendously wasteful. The "waste" can contain up to 99% of the original energy content available in the original uranium. The answer is to use a new type of reactor, such as a "breeder" reactor. Problem is... that means there will be lots of plutonium sitting around, which of course is the ideal weapons material (for terrorists as well as nation states.) So, any use of nuclear means we will need the best in security and environmental regimes.
Can be done... probably will need to be done... but we have to be reasonable about the costs.
/nothing in life is free.
| 262 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:55:09pm |
re: #254 Walter L. Newton
Got it. Ok. I just wasn't sure on your comment and the reference you linked to. Yes, NREL has some very interesting modeling software that we developed for a number of the different research projects.
And you are correct, batteries are not the limiting factor in a successful solar and wind energy generation loop.
But, I'll wait for Ludwig to enlighten me with his detailed answer.
While you're waiting, it should be noted that battery breakthrough tech, would make solar/wind solutions even more practical and increase their total potential max share of power production.
| 263 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:55:15pm |
re: #226 ggt Oh, no ggt, lawyers can and do get sued all the time - for malpractice and other things.
I had the distinct honor of getting a total of 7 unethical lawyers disbarred during the course of my career!
| 264 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:55:54pm |
re: #263 realwest
Oh, no ggt, lawyers can and do get sued all the time - for malpractice and other things.
I had the distinct honor of getting a total of 7 unethical lawyers disbarred during the course of my career!
In what capacity did you get them booted?
| 265 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:56:01pm |
re: #233 Walter L. Newton
And you have a link to this as a fact, that the limitation is battery storage?
Remember, I worked for the National Renewable Energy Lab for 13 years, which was, in the beginning, SERI, the Solar Energy Research Institute. Batteries are not the limiting factor.
Please supply a link to the back up this assertion. You made the comment, now back it up.
Then you should know about this already. Walter, you just proved how even if you work there, you know jack and shit outside of programming.
Here is a link to the battery technology from ANL:
[Link: www.anl.gov...]
here is a discussion of how it will help.
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]
Here is a do it your selfer page that is written for your obviously low level of expertise.
[Link: www.freesunpower.com...]
| 266 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:56:14pm |
re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually, my political orientation is only to the left by the standards of certain posters here. By the standards of my university colleagues I am to the right of Mussolini. What this really makes me is an honest to G-d centrist who cares more about what works and what is true than any particular party affiliation or dogma.
Boo-yah! High five!
| 267 |
Last Mohican Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:57:11pm |
re: #241 Cato the Elder
Yep, my definition of "nice" is flat-out scare-mongering lies about Obama coming to terminate Down syndrome children, starting with Trig. She's at the same level as Alex Jones, in my book.
True, the "death panels" thing was way over the line. I'm liking Sarah Palin less and less, the more she opens her mouth. And I wasn't a big fan of her to begin with.
However, comparing her to Alex Jones is hyperbolic, and it's unfairly insulting to Palin, even if you do think she's a dimwit.
| 268 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:58:42pm |
re: #259 Slumbering Behemoth
IIRC, monsoons are about annual air current patterns, and not about humidity/moisture. There are dry monsoons and wet monsoons.
This really has nothing to do with your post, I was just wondering if I am remembering correctly.
Well, our monsoon is not quite the 700 inches of rain the monsoon in The Bay of Bengal brings...we get increased humidity and very active thunderstorms. We also get these "monsoon storms", similar to the dust storms that occur in the Arabian desert. Do you guys get those? A big wall of dust and wind...it comes in and messes things up...and then is gone as fast as it came.
| 269 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:59:20pm |
re: #262 Coracle
While you're waiting, it should be noted that battery breakthrough tech, would make solar/wind solutions even more practical and increase their total potential max share of power production.
Some solar/wind farms might even be combined with hydroelectric stations.
I also wanted to ask about geothermal energy. Seems very popular with new construction. Why don't we hear more about it though? Or am I running in the wrong circles?
| 270 |
Macker Thu, Aug 20, 2009 9:59:47pm |
re: #268 Desert Dog
Not only that...AZ monsoon storms always alternate between dust and rain!
| 271 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:00:24pm |
re: #260 Macker
You don't say! I live on Gilbert Rd. just south of the 60, I work near Tempe Diablo Stadium!
Wow! Let's hit the George and Dragon one afternoon then!
| 272 |
Last Mohican Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:00:43pm |
re: #251 JCM
Hmm. Wormchaff.
It's a beautiful thing to observe how many good ideas nature comes up with.
| 273 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:00:46pm |
re: #247 Coracle
I'll disagree with LVQ and say that batteries are not the limiting factor.
It depends on what you consider a limiting factor Coracle.
Solar and wind are not meant to be the primary source of power for city or nationwide usage. I mean making them really cost effective systems for home owners and small businesses depends on how much energy storage you have for when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing.
I'll look for the paper I read on the cost benefit analysis from DOE. ONce I find it I will link.
| 274 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:01:11pm |
re: #261 freetoken
Someone smarter than I am posted here recently that the amount of nuclear waste produced by modern reactors is around a few grams. Compare that with the tons of hazardous waste produced by other "clean" energy production.
Nuclear waste can be stored safely for thousands of years, when a real likelihood of a feasible means to render it harmless will be discovered.
| 275 |
Mich-again Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:01:12pm |
re: #250 LudwigVanQuixote
Three Mile Island and Chernobyl
No comparison there. One was more of a media event than anything else. I don't think you can tie a single fatality to 3 Mile Island. Chernobyl on the other hand was a full score global disaster. For the best education about that chunk of scorched Earth, go through Kiddofspeed.
| 276 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:01:16pm |
Well, I'm not going to immerse myself in some not hard sci-fi fantasy --ala David Weber and John Ringo.
weet dreams all!
| 277 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:02:07pm |
re: #262 Coracle
While you're waiting, it should be noted that battery breakthrough tech, would make solar/wind solutions even more practical and increase their total potential max share of power production.
See the ANL link in my 265.
| 278 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:02:08pm |
re: #269 Sharmuta
Some solar/wind farms might even be combined with hydroelectric stations.
I also wanted to ask about geothermal energy. Seems very popular with new construction. Why don't we hear more about it though? Or am I running in the wrong circles?
Reeealy expensive on a large scale. Gotta drill pretty deep and create a circulation system, if you're not near a hot area. I know a guy who did a poor-man's geothermal by laying a couple hundred feet of sewer pipe 6 feet under his property and blowing air through it to provide his house with 58 degree air year round. That's also not easy to do on a large scale though.
| 279 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:02:24pm |
re: #258 Lee Coller
I have a boat with 25 sq ft of solar panels (260 Watts). I can assure you, battery capacity is not my issue.
Hey, not kidding here, but are you being serious? I didn't know that boats could use solar energy! And if battery capacity is not your issue, what is?
(sorry, just really ignorant of solar power).
| 280 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:02:27pm |
re: #265 LudwigVanQuixote
Then you should know about this already. Walter, you just proved how even if you work there, you know jack and shit outside of programming.
Here is a link to the battery technology from ANL:
[Link: www.anl.gov...]
here is a discussion of how it will help.
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]
Here is a do it your selfer page that is written for your obviously low level of expertise.
[Link: www.freesunpower.com...]
You said the batteries are the limiting factor, yet each one of these articles are about batteries and battery research that far exceeds most of the readily available commercial batteries already in use.
So, what is it? Batteries are the limiting factor in viable solar and wind power generation or the new battery technology is a opens all sorts of viable solar and wind power generation technologies?
Can't have it both ways?
And really, Ludwig, if you can't make it through one post without using some snarky language, then I am going to put you on GAZE, because you are really coming across as a child right now.
And I already have my own child-unit here to deal with.
| 281 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:02:52pm |
re: #267 Last Mohican
True, the "death panels" thing was way over the line. I'm liking Sarah Palin less and less, the more she opens her mouth. And I wasn't a big fan of her to begin with.
However, comparing her to Alex Jones is hyperbolic, and it's unfairly insulting to Palin, even if you do think she's a dimwit.
Thank God I live in a country where I don't have to fret about being sensitive to the feelings of a politician.
| 282 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:03:48pm |
re: #281 Cato the Elder
Thank God I live in a country where I don't have to fret about being sensitive to the feelings of a politician.
In that, you and I are indeed blessed Cato.
| 283 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:03:54pm |
re: #275 Mich-again
No comparison there. One was more of a media event than anything else. I don't think you can tie a single fatality to 3 Mile Island. Chernobyl on the other hand was a full score global disaster. For the best education about that chunk of scorched Earth, go through Kiddofspeed.
That is a political statement and pure propaganda. As a physicist, let me tell you that we dodged a bullet with TMI. It is absolutely true that the Russians F'd up much worse than we did. However, do not think that TMI was just a cake walk.
| 284 |
Syrah Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:04:02pm |
re: #278 Coracle
Reeealy expensive on a large scale. Gotta drill pretty deep and create a circulation system, if you're not near a hot area. I know a guy who did a poor-man's geothermal by laying a couple hundred feet of sewer pipe 6 feet under his property and blowing air through it to provide his house with 58 degree air year round. That's also not easy to do on a large scale though.
That would kind of suck in an area with a radon problem.
| 285 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:04:14pm |
re: #270 Macker
Not only that...AZ monsoon storms always alternate between dust and rain!
My email is blue, Macker. Hit me up and let's get together. Tomorrow is a busy one for me, as is this weekend. Mrs. Desert Dog has my social calender booked. But next week, I am wide open.
| 286 |
Mich-again Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:04:37pm |
re: #279 realwest
I didn't know that boats could use solar energy!
260 watts could power the stereo and lights and fishfinder. Not a whole lot more.
| 287 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:04:49pm |
re: #274 Racer X
Someone smarter than I am posted here recently that the amount of nuclear waste produced by modern reactors is around a few grams. Compare that with the tons of hazardous waste produced by other "clean" energy production.
Nuclear waste can be stored safely for thousands of years, when a real likelihood of a feasible means to render it harmless will be discovered.
All true, but the NIMBY problem for plants themselves, transportation of fuel - unspent and spent, and storage of waste, crosses party lines.
| 289 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:06:05pm |
re: #268 Desert Dog
Do you guys get those? A big wall of dust and wind...it comes in and messes things up...and then is gone as fast as it came.
Not around my way. I live in a part of that big giant valley that comprises most of California, and provides our country with most of it's food. High winds are rare here.
What I was going on about before though, was that IIRC, monsoons are about wind patterns and not rain. IOW, one type of monsoon brings storms and rain, while another type just brings hot air. Not sure if I am remembering this correctly, though.
| 290 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:06:07pm |
Boned in the USA
If your bullshit detector's at redline
And threatens to burn out on max;
If you're mind's contemplating a breadline
Because teevee has starved it of facts;
If Lisinopril won't keep your blood pressure down,
If your vote is for nothing, your mayor's a clown,
And your congressman's whoring it all over the town:
Don't think twice about it, why, don't even frown.
Because love it or leave it,
You'd better believe it,
Our health-care system is the best,
Our land's the envy of the rest,
Even our dope is heaven-blessed.
The U.S., beacon of the West.
We're number one, you see?
God curse you if you don't agree.
Now tell me a fart joke,
Jiggle your tits,
Give me cheap gas and more coke
Until my head splits.
Let's all say the pledge to the glorious flag.
Your mother's a drunk but don't call her a hag.
With Sarah as leader the world might well gag,
But who cares for them and their snoot?
All we need are their banks to hide taxable loot.
So pound on the table and scream woot woot woot.
We live in the land of the dumb and the free
A place that was made for me.
| 291 |
Desert Dog Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:06:40pm |
I am outta here, y'all. It's beddy-bye time here at the Dog House. Play nice.
| 292 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:07:11pm |
re: #279 realwest
Hey, not kidding here, but are you being serious? I didn't know that boats could use solar energy! And if battery capacity is not your issue, what is?
(sorry, just really ignorant of solar power).
I have a sailboat, I have two means of propulsion, wind and a diesel engine. I also have refrigerator, freezer, entertainment, requirement to run lights at night, water pump, and other things that use electricity. When I was out at anchor, I essentially had to run my engine twice a day to keep my batteries charged. When I added solar, that got down to once per day. It would be difficult for me to add much more solar to the boat. I could easily increase my battery capacity (and at much less cost).
So my limiting factor is how much energy I can actually get through solar power. I only have so much square feet to allocate to solar panels.
| 293 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:07:42pm |
re: #280 Walter L. Newton
Walter, the biggest problem with solar is what happens when the sun isn't shining...
This should be really obvious.
Now if the sun is shining and you fill your battery, your solar panels aren't helping right?
This too should be obvious.
So what does vastly increased energy storage do to the problem?
Let's see if you can reason that out.
| 294 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:08:06pm |
re: #284 Syrah
That would kind of suck in an area with a radon problem.
Not necessarily. Radon hazard can be mitigated with good air exchange from the outside. You'd have to find a way to do that, though. You can potentially trap Radon as well, since it's a heavy gas, but that would be some interesting architecture.
| 295 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:08:21pm |
re: #274 Racer X
Someone smarter than I am posted here recently that the amount of nuclear waste produced by modern reactors is around a few grams. [...]
A meaningless statement unless accompanied by a time-scale or other reference point.
A few grams per what?
| 296 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:09:10pm |
re: #261 freetoken
Hello freetoken! What kind of nuclear power do the French use, do you know? Cause I do know that France gets 70%+ of it's national electrical needs from nuclear power. And of course our Navy has used nuclear reactors in subs and Aircraft carriers for 30+ years and iirc no accidents.
(Btw, I fully agree with you that the "left" is a poorly defined term, as is the "right").
| 297 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:09:33pm |
re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote
Walter, the biggest problem with solar is what happens when the sun isn't shining...
This should be really obvious.
Now if the sun is shining and you fill your battery, your solar panels aren't helping right?
This too should be obvious.
So what does vastly increased energy storage do to the problem?
Let's see if you can reason that out.
But that technology already exists, and its actually cheaper than the corresponding solar panels to generate the energy, no one is saying storing energy for use during the night isn't an issue, were saying its not a limiting factor.
| 298 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:09:34pm |
re: #280 Walter L. Newton
Also Walter, if you could read what I wrote, I said that the new batteries make this practical. Do try reading...
| 299 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:09:57pm |
re: #290 Cato the Elder
I hate that song. Your version is not much better.
| 300 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:10:19pm |
re: #278 Coracle
Reeealy expensive on a large scale. Gotta drill pretty deep and create a circulation system, if you're not near a hot area. I know a guy who did a poor-man's geothermal by laying a couple hundred feet of sewer pipe 6 feet under his property and blowing air through it to provide his house with 58 degree air year round. That's also not easy to do on a large scale though.
Thanks. Like I said- I've noticed it more with new construction, and on large projects like schools and commercial properties.
| 301 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:10:25pm |
re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote
Walter, the biggest problem with solar is what happens when the sun isn't shining...
This should be really obvious.
Now if the sun is shining and you fill your battery, your solar panels aren't helping right?
This too should be obvious.
So what does vastly increased energy storage do to the problem?
Let's see if you can reason that out.
Your first comment was battery technology was limited, your second post linked to three articles about wonderful battery breakthroughs.
I ask you one more time, a simple answer from you, is current battery technology limiting the viability of solar and wind power generation?
| 302 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:11:10pm |
re: #297 Lee Coller
But that technology already exists, and its actually cheaper than the corresponding solar panels to generate the energy, no one is saying storing energy for use during the night isn't an issue, were saying its not a limiting factor.
The technology was just developed months ago and needs to be mass distributed before it solves the issues. You misunderstood my meaning. If you want cheap Solar that pays for itself quickly, you need batteries with the new energy densities. We need to mass deploy that batteries and get people using them.
| 303 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:11:24pm |
re: #295 Cato the Elder
A meaningless statement unless accompanied by a time-scale or other reference point.
A few grams per what?
I dunno. You're smart. Look it up.
| 304 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:11:56pm |
re: #301 Walter L. Newton
Your first comment was battery technology was limited, your second post linked to three articles about wonderful battery breakthroughs.
I ask you one more time, a simple answer from you, is current battery technology limiting the viability of solar and wind power generation?
May I ask why you need LVQ's answer when you have mine and stated your own in agreement?
| 305 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:12:17pm |
re: #301 Walter L. Newton
Your first comment was battery technology was limited, your second post linked to three articles about wonderful battery breakthroughs.
I ask you one more time, a simple answer from you, is current battery technology limiting the viability of solar and wind power generation?
And I have said three times that the new batteries will make solar and wind practical economically quickly. The batteries that are currently deployed do not cut it. Why are such simple concepts beyond you?
| 306 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:13:11pm |
re: #264 Dark_Falcon
As a witness - an expert witness on things like what should a competent commercial real estate attorney do in circumstances like these:... or on Ethics:
Do you think Mr. realwest, that a client should be told, in writing, when the attorney who represents him has a conflict of interest with the other side, by virtue of the fact that said attorney in fact represents the other side in different deals while he purports to represent you in this deal?
| 307 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:13:25pm |
There is no simple list of "to do's" to remove the industrial footprint that affects the atmosphere and ocean temps.
First there are more greenhouse gasses than CO2. Combustion is not the only source of greenhouse gasses.
Making concrete (portland cement), for example, accounts for 1% of US greenhouse gas emissions. Triflourethelene is a chemical used in making solar panels and LCDs. It evaporates easily and the molecule is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. I was told by the BP rep who sold me my PV panels that the effect is to cut in half the lifetime CO2 savings of the panels.
Second there is waste heat - Urban heat effect is well documented. Our machines produce heat because we never convert 100% of our source energy into work. Your car does not only move forward - much of the energy potential of your gasoline gets converted into heat.
Third, we are altering the atmosphere by pumping waste gases into it regardless of whether they are greenhouse or not. The more gases we release, the more molecules and the greater the air density. That ultimately means higher barometric pressure with unknown consequences (can we assume that the pressure increases will be uniform and therefore benign, or will it result in bigger gradients between high and low pressure systems leading to higher winds and more violent storms? We don't know).
There is no pat laundry lists of political/moral imperatives that will rescue us from ourselves. Some changes are unavoidable and should be understood and anticipated. Other changes can be mitigated with existing and deployable infrastructure technology (nuclear power) that simply requires reason and leadership. And some changes we won't understand / anticipate.
| 308 |
Last Mohican Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:14:03pm |
re: #281 Cato the Elder
Thank God I live in a country where I don't have to fret about being sensitive to the feelings of a politician.
You certainly do not. And anyway, your perseverant abuse of Sarah Palin hasn't yet even hit the national median, in terms of the vitriol that Americans have spewed at her. But nevertheless, you might care to consider the effect of gross exaggerations like the Jones comparison on your own online identify. I know that, when I start going over the top around here, I appreciate being pulled back down to reality by my fellow LGFers. It's one of the things that I like about LGF. There's a strong communal pressure toward being sensible. I think it helps shape all of our thinking in a productive way, and it increases the impact and appeal of the blog as a whole.
| 309 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:14:30pm |
re: #262 Coracle
While you're waiting, it should be noted that battery breakthrough tech, would make solar/wind solutions even more practical and increase their total potential max share of power production.
This is exactly what I am saying. The current deployed batteries do not cut it. The new ones do.
[Link: www.anl.gov...]
| 310 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:14:35pm |
re: #298 LudwigVanQuixote
Also Walter, if you could read what I wrote, I said that the new batteries make this practical. Do try reading...
I read what you said...
2. The limitations to solar and wind is battery storage. New batteries are available that solve this problem.
Which is it? You contradict yourself from the first sentence to the second sentence.
If there are "new batteries" available "that solve this problem" then there is no limitations "to solar and wind... battery storage."
You are very confusing.
| 311 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:14:59pm |
re: #302 LudwigVanQuixote
The technology was just developed months ago and needs to be mass distributed before it solves the issues. You misunderstood my meaning. If you want cheap Solar that pays for itself quickly, you need batteries with the new energy densities. We need to mass deploy that batteries and get people using them.
That's simply not true. The issue isn't storage, that technology has existed for years, the issue is how much energy you can actually get out of solar panel.
Don't get me wrong, we need better energy storage mechanisms, they will make things like electric cars practical. Its just not the limiting factor in solar or wind, anyone whose actually dealt with that knows that.
| 312 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:16:23pm |
re: #305 LudwigVanQuixote
And I have said three times that the new batteries will make solar and wind practical economically quickly. The batteries that are currently deployed do not cut it. Why are such simple concepts beyond you?
I thought that one problem with solar and wind was that the energy was so diffuse that it would take large areas to produce enough energy from them. And solar panels are expensive enough that the sheer number of them needed makes solar uneconomical. (And the cells themselves don't last forever; they deteriorate over time.)
Batteries will help, but won't solve the problem, especially if the batteries themselves are expensive.
| 313 |
swamprat Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:16:25pm |
re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote
repost since you are up here...
re: #1226 Sharmuta
Sorry that I was offline...Now as to policy, and this is a matter of my opinion about what I think we should do, not a matter of the science behind the threat, I would do the following last year.
1. Start switching over to nuclear power.
(a)Didn't the "green movement" shut down all pending nuclear power production?
(b)Didn't the "green movement" shut down all pending hydro-electric power production?2. The limitations to solar and wind is battery storage. New batteries are available that solve this problem.
(d)there are now "green movement " efforts to stop large scale solar(infringes on desert ecology) and wind (chops up birdies).
Electric cars will be junk until the day they go to a more sophisticated alternating current technology
3. Stop buying so much disposable crap from Chinese and Indian sweatshops. Use a carrot and stick on them to get them more green.
(china has the morals of a cat, But they have invested in our debt. You do realize that China makes one of the best solar water heaters, with vacuum enclosed tubes?)4. In of themselves, even without the threat of AGW, these things would give America energy independence, staunch the flow of billions of dollars to hostile governments that hate us and improve living conditions for the average American through cleaner air and water. This would create entire industries and tens of thousands of jobs. In the long run, the investment would pay for itself. The only foreign people to be really hurt by theses measures will be the Saudis, the Venezuelans and others like them who hate us anyway. Domestically it will be hard on the oil industry and the coal industry. That can not be avoided.
Power from nuclear technology...stopped by the greenies
Power from dams...stopped by the greenies
Power from coal...stopped by the greenies
Power from locally drilled oil...stopped by the greenies
Why are we on the foreign oil teat?
I find myself agreeing with the great statesman Barrack H. Obama
Hear his words and ponder them
| 314 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:17:26pm |
re: #311 Lee Coller
That's simply not true. The issue isn't storage, that technology has existed for years, the issue is how much energy you can actually get out of solar panel.
Don't get me wrong, we need better energy storage mechanisms, they will make things like electric cars practical. Its just not the limiting factor in solar or wind, anyone whose actually dealt with that knows that.
You are correct.
I was going to detail this as soon as I cleared up the first part of Ludwig's confusing statement "2. The limitations to solar and wind is battery storage. New batteries are available that solve this problem."
But, good answer.
| 315 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:17:26pm |
re: #311 Lee Coller
That's simply not true. The issue isn't storage, that technology has existed for years, the issue is how much energy you can actually get out of solar panel.
Don't get me wrong, we need better energy storage mechanisms, they will make things like electric cars practical. Its just not the limiting factor in solar or wind, anyone whose actually dealt with that knows that.
I do not debate that more efficient solar cells are very useful too. However better storage makes the system more economically viable.
I also said solar and wind.
You can easily build enough wind turbines to outstrip your storage capacity. More batteries are essential there.
| 316 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:17:44pm |
As already noted, the volume of nuclear waste produced by the nuclear industry is very small compared with other wastes generated. Each year, nuclear power generation facilities worldwide produce about 200,000 m3 of low- and intermediate-level radioactive waste, and about 10,000 m3 of high-level waste including used fuel designated as waste1.
In the OECD countries, some 300 million tonnes of toxic wastes are produced each year, but conditioned radioactive wastes amount to only 81,000 m3 per year. In the UK for example, around 120,000,000 m3 of waste is generated per year - the equivalent of just over 20 dustbins full for every man, woman and child. The amount of nuclear waste produced per member of the UK populations is 840 cm3 (i.e. a volume of under one litre). Of this waste, 90% of the volume is only slightly radioactive and is categorised as low-level waste (with only 1% of the total radioactivity of all radioactive wastes). Intermediate-level waste makes up 7% of the volume and has 4% of the radioactivity. The most radioactive form of waste is categorised as high-level waste and whilst accounting for only 3% of the volume of all the radioactive waste produced (equating to around 25 cm3 per UK citizen per year), it contains 95% of the radioactivity.
A typical 1000 MWe light water reactor will generate (directly and indirectly) 200-350 m3 low- and intermediate-level waste per year. It will also discharge about 20 m3 (27 tonnes) of used fuel per year, which corresponds to a 75 m3 disposal volume following encapsulation if it is treated as waste. Where that used fuel is reprocessed, only 3 m3 of vitrified waste (glass) is produced, which is equivalent to a 28 m3 disposal volume following placement in a disposal canister.
This compares with an average 400,000 tonnes of ash produced from a coal-fired plant of the same power capacity. Today, volume reduction techniques and abatement technologies as well as continuing good practice within the work force all contribute to continuing minimisation of waste produced, a key principle of waste management policy in the nuclear industry. Whilst the volumes of nuclear wastes produced are very small, the most important issue for the nuclear industry is managing their toxic nature in a way that is environmentally sound and presents no hazard to both workers and the general public.
Have fun.
| 317 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:17:47pm |
re: #292 Lee Coller
Ah, gotcha! Thanks (I really didn't know you had room on a sailboat to put solar panels almost anywhere!).
Thank you.
| 318 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:18:29pm |
Later Lizards. I am off for more violent video games and hardcore pornography. Damn I love this country! Freedom FTW!
| 319 |
Gus Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:18:52pm |
re: #302 LudwigVanQuixote
The technology was just developed months ago and needs to be mass distributed before it solves the issues. You misunderstood my meaning. If you want cheap Solar that pays for itself quickly, you need batteries with the new energy densities. We need to mass deploy that batteries and get people using them.
I'm not sure about mass deployment of consumer goods. The only way to feasibly deal with this would be on the production side. You don't change consumers, you provide change for consumers. This can be accomplished through changes or an evolution in standards such as ANSI; IBC; mechanical and energy codes, etc.
There is not a single solution either. For instance, the mitigation that is chosen through policy may not be the very best one or in fact create further problems. To that end a wide range of consumer options that meet the newer standards, over a period of time, will result in market and technical approval.
Or something.
| 320 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:18:53pm |
re: #312 Kosh's Shadow
I thought that one problem with solar and wind was that the energy was so diffuse that it would take large areas to produce enough energy from them. And solar panels are expensive enough that the sheer number of them needed makes solar uneconomical. (And the cells themselves don't last forever; they deteriorate over time.)
Batteries will help, but won't solve the problem, especially if the batteries themselves are expensive.
With wind not so much. You can do a back of the envelope calculation that you could power all of America with some thousands of turbines if we placed them in the windiest places.
Solar is too diffuse to be our primary source of energy. I have only been arguing for it as a supplement.
| 322 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:20:22pm |
Howdy Honcos. I can't seem to catch up on the threads. Helping a friend get a powerpoint presentation in sync to music.
| 323 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:20:37pm |
re: #313 swamprat
You seem to think that I like the Left. I do not.
However, the NIMBY aspects of this cross party lines, and if you think that the oil lobby has not been a big player in stopping development on this you are dreaming. If you think that the GOP has not been the biggest supporter of the oil lobby, you are dreaming.
| 324 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:20:37pm |
re: #312 Kosh's Shadow
I thought that one problem with solar and wind was that the energy was so diffuse that it would take large areas to produce enough energy from them. And solar panels are expensive enough that the sheer number of them needed makes solar uneconomical. (And the cells themselves don't last forever; they deteriorate over time.)
Batteries will help, but won't solve the problem, especially if the batteries themselves are expensive.
There are methods for dealing with both, even if some of them are currently clunky.
From previous discussion.
From the 18 month old SciAm article:
Solar's potential is ~69% electricity and ~33% total energy needs by 2050. Cost $420Billion (includes storage, infrastructure, and new transmission backbone, asumes no revolutionary breakthroughs)
| 325 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:20:45pm |
| 326 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:21:06pm |
Our demand for energy isn't going to decrease anytime soon. Solar and wind can help meet growing demand while not adding emissions to the atmosphere. There's no reason not to pursue these technologies that can help now while research keeps working to find additional alternatives.
| 327 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:22:04pm |
re: #310 Walter L. Newton
I read what you said...
2. The limitations to solar and wind is battery storage. New batteries are available that solve this problem.
Which is it? You contradict yourself from the first sentence to the second sentence.
If there are "new batteries" available "that solve this problem" then there is no limitations "to solar and wind... battery storage."
You are very confusing.
Do you have some issue that makes you utterly hyper literal and therefore incapable of understanding normal English?
| 329 |
Walter L. Newton Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:23:09pm |
re: #327 LudwigVanQuixote
Do you have some issue that makes you utterly hyper literal and therefore incapable of understanding normal English?
Yawn.
| 330 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:23:19pm |
re: #306 realwest
As a witness - an expert witness on things like what should a competent commercial real estate attorney do in circumstances like these:... or on Ethics:
Do you think Mr. realwest, that a client should be told, in writing, when the attorney who represents him has a conflict of interest with the other side, by virtue of the fact that said attorney in fact represents the other side in different deals while he purports to represent you in this deal?
Thank you for the answer. I pity the man who lied while you were around. Your honesty and integrity are two of the most obvious reasons I admire you.
| 331 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:23:33pm |
re: #324 Coracle
Quite a bit for solar, especially since it would have to be subsidized or the energy cost would be far too high.
If it were economical, companies would be asking for rights to build solar power plants.
If it needs subsidies, we end up paying in taxes what we'd pay to the electric companies; it just hides the real cost.
| 332 |
swamprat Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:23:47pm |
re: #316 solomonpanting
Holy cow!
That's a lot of glowing heftybags!
| 333 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:24:51pm |
re: #326 Sharmuta
Our demand for energy isn't going to decrease anytime soon. Solar and wind can help meet growing demand while not adding emissions to the atmosphere. There's no reason not to pursue these technologies that can help now while research keeps working to find additional alternatives.
There are emissions during the manufacturing process right?
I agree that pursuing these technologies is a good thing, but really, if GW is as bad as they say we are screwed. Royally screwed. We need to eliminate greenhouse gases like right now. Nuclear is the only way. Without nuclear everything else is a waste of time.
| 334 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:25:14pm |
re: #331 Kosh's Shadow
You're forgetting wind. And power companies are looking to build wind farms. They're coming.
| 335 |
swamprat Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:25:14pm |
| 336 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:25:41pm |
re: #326 Sharmuta
Our demand for energy isn't going to decrease anytime soon. Solar and wind can help meet growing demand while not adding emissions to the atmosphere. There's no reason not to pursue these technologies that can help now while research keeps working to find additional alternatives.
Exactly. They are also more quickly deployed.
| 337 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:26:04pm |
re: #329 Walter L. Newton
Yawn.
I thought you made your point quite clearly, and in a polite manner. I'm liking this new Walter. The girlfriend is working for you bud.
| 338 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:26:29pm |
re: #331 Kosh's Shadow
Quite a bit for solar, especially since it would have to be subsidized or the energy cost would be far too high.
If it were economical, companies would be asking for rights to build solar power plants.
If it needs subsidies, we end up paying in taxes what we'd pay to the electric companies; it just hides the real cost.
I don't disagree. However, I think A) it would be worth it. and B) actual cost should be less due to tech improvements. Battery and cell tech have already made the 2008 estimate lowball for energy and highball for cost, IMO.
| 339 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:26:35pm |
re: #337 Racer X
I thought you made your point quite clearly, and in a polite manner. I'm liking this new Walter. The girlfriend is working for you bud.
Quite Concur.
| 340 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:27:09pm |
re: #333 Racer X
There are emissions during the manufacturing process right?
I agree that pursuing these technologies is a good thing, but really, if GW is as bad as they say we are screwed. Royally screwed. We need to eliminate greenhouse gases like right now. Nuclear is the only way. Without nuclear everything else is a waste of time.
Not trying to lobby against nuclear. This started on a previous thread because I mentioned upcoming wind farms. Everyone here can say this or that, it's not viable- whatever. They're coming, and I think it's great.
| 342 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:27:32pm |
re: #337 Racer X
I thought you made your point quite clearly, and in a polite manner. I'm liking this new Walter. The girlfriend is working for you bud.
I tried to get my girlfriend to work for me, but she thinks it ought to be the other way round. Sigh.
| 343 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:28:14pm |
re: #340 Sharmuta
Not trying to lobby against nuclear. This started on a previous thread because I mentioned upcoming wind farms. Everyone here can say this or that, it's not viable- whatever. They're coming, and I think it's great.
You're right. Just don't try to put one where it might spoil the view of a Kennedy.
| 344 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:28:15pm |
re: #333 Racer X
There are emissions during the manufacturing process right?
I agree that pursuing these technologies is a good thing, but really, if GW is as bad as they say we are screwed. Royally screwed. We need to eliminate greenhouse gases like right now. Nuclear is the only way. Without nuclear everything else is a waste of time.
Agreed, tough we should still engage in additional energy exploration and development. I don't mind helping Brazil develop a big oilfield, but I wish we'd also work on developing our own oil at the same time.
| 345 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:28:32pm |
re: #334 Sharmuta
You're forgetting wind. And power companies are looking to build wind farms. They're coming.
Yes, and too often the environmentalists are trying to stop them.
| 346 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:28:41pm |
re: #322 Pvt Bin Jammin
Hey there PBJ - well why not take the easy way out and go with your friend to the power point presentation and just hum the music at the appropriate moments?!
:)
Hope you're doing well my friend!
| 347 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:30:01pm |
re: #331 Kosh's Shadow
Quite a bit for solar, especially since it would have to be subsidized or the energy cost would be far too high.
If it were economical, companies would be asking for rights to build solar power plants.
If it needs subsidies, we end up paying in taxes what we'd pay to the electric companies; it just hides the real cost.
You are never going to meet energy needs through solar by building giant plants. The people who say that you do not get enough watts per meter for that are correct. What I said, and I have kept saying is that solar is a valuable supplement to the energy needs of private homes (note not big apartment flats, because of the watts/ meter issue), large factories and large malls. Why did I list those things? Because of the watts per meter issue. This should be obvious. Now in those instances, the limiting factor to economic viability - to make the solar panels really pay for themselves is storage.
That is what I said. I said it three times. Now four. Am I speaking Russian or something?
| 348 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:30:13pm |
re: #338 Coracle
I don't disagree. However, I think A) it would be worth it. and B) actual cost should be less due to tech improvements. Battery and cell tech have already made the 2008 estimate lowball for energy and highball for cost, IMO.
Nuclear is cheaper, and won't kill our economy the way subsidizing solar would.
We are talking about huge reductions in cost needed to not hurt the economy.
| 349 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:30:16pm |
re: #336 LudwigVanQuixote
Exactly. They are also more quickly deployed.
Yes- the wind farm I know of will be operational quickly once they start installing the windmills on the land. The biggest cost will be upgrades to existing infrastructure- not the mills themselves. But the upgrades are needed regardless, so it's a win-win, imo.
| 350 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:31:11pm |
re: #342 Cato the Elder
I tried to get my girlfriend to work for me, but she thinks it ought to be the other way round. Sigh.
That happens...
| 351 |
Racer X Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:31:19pm |
re: #344 Dark_Falcon
Yeah see I don't get that whole Brazil thing. Why are we "loaning" them a billion dollars to drill oil? They will just sell the oil back to us and make a hefty profit. Let them drill on their own. Hell, give them a contract to buy X amount from them. But loan them money to drill?
Drill here, drill now.
With nuclear tipped drills.
OK I made that last part up.
| 352 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:31:37pm |
re: #330 Dark_Falcon
Thank you for the answer. I pity the man who lied while you were around. Your honesty and integrity are two of the most obvious reasons I admire you.
Why thank you Dark_Falcon and here I was thinking all along that it was my good looks that had you admiring me! LOL!!!
Seriously, thank you for the very nice compliment.
| 353 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:31:46pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
You are never going to meet energy needs through solar by building giant plants. The people who say that you do not get enough watts per meter for that are correct. What I said, and I have kept saying is that solar is a valuable supplement to the energy needs of private homes (note not big apartment flats, because of the watts/ meter issue), large factories and large malls. Why did I list those things? Because of the watts per meter issue. This should be obvious. Now in those instances, the limiting factor to economic viability - to make the solar panels really pay for themselves is storage.
That is what I said. I said it three times. Now four. Am I speaking Russian or something?
I came in to this late, and don't have time to read the entire thread.
But even in small scales, solar isn't cheap; is it really economical to the building owner without subsidies? Because we're all paying if the cost is subsidized.
| 354 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:31:48pm |
re: #348 Kosh's Shadow
Nuclear is cheaper, and won't kill our economy the way subsidizing solar would.
We are talking about huge reductions in cost needed to not hurt the economy.
Please see my 347.
| 355 |
Lee Coller Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:32:15pm |
re: #317 realwest
Ah, gotcha! Thanks (I really didn't know you had room on a sailboat to put solar panels almost anywhere!).
Thank you.
My sailboat (click on my avatar -- though that picture is before I added the solar) is 44' (Hunter 44 Deck Salon). I've added a stainless mount on the stern (the back) where I have the panels.
| 356 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:32:17pm |
re: #348 Kosh's Shadow
Nuclear is cheaper, and won't kill our economy the way subsidizing solar would.
We are talking about huge reductions in cost needed to not hurt the economy.
Is it? I thought sufficient nuclear plants to replace 100% of our needs would be in the hundreds of billions also. Am I wrong?
| 357 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:32:19pm |
re: #308 Last Mohican
You certainly do not. And anyway, your perseverant abuse of Sarah Palin hasn't yet even hit the national median, in terms of the vitriol that Americans have spewed at her. But nevertheless, you might care to consider the effect of gross exaggerations like the Jones comparison on your own online identify. I know that, when I start going over the top around here, I appreciate being pulled back down to reality by my fellow LGFers. It's one of the things that I like about LGF. There's a strong communal pressure toward being sensible. I think it helps shape all of our thinking in a productive way, and it increases the impact and appeal of the blog as a whole.
I'm sorry, I missed this until now.
I simply don't think the Jones = Palin comparison is much of an exaggeration. The "death panels" comment was pure scare-mongering, untrue, and baseless. And as others have said here, it distracted from real, valid critique of the proposed reform.
But never argue with success. Sarah seems to have the general level of stoopid in the land pretty precisely pegged, so she has no incentive to be honest.
| 358 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:32:21pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
You are never going to meet energy needs through solar by building giant plants. The people who say that you do not get enough watts per meter for that are correct. What I said, and I have kept saying is that solar is a valuable supplement to the energy needs of private homes (note not big apartment flats, because of the watts/ meter issue), large factories and large malls. Why did I list those things? Because of the watts per meter issue. This should be obvious. Now in those instances, the limiting factor to economic viability - to make the solar panels really pay for themselves is storage.
That is what I said. I said it three times. Now four. Am I speaking Russian or something?
In Soviet Russia, state stores you. ;)
| 359 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:33:30pm |
re: #353 Kosh's Shadow
I came in to this late, and don't have time to read the entire thread.
But even in small scales, solar isn't cheap; is it really economical to the building owner without subsidies? Because we're all paying if the cost is subsidized.
That's true, but then our electric bills go down because less power is drawn from the grid. And yes I did say subsidize. I also need to reiterate, that the who caps melting thing is still a problem so doing things that would cause us to burn less coal and oil is a good idea.
| 360 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:33:37pm |
re: #354 LudwigVanQuixote
Please see my 347.
See my 353. I believe solar still needs subsidies of some kind to be economical for the building owners, whether it is tax breaks or something else.
Subsidies mean we still pay, but the costs are hidden in our general tax bill.
| 361 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:33:51pm |
re: #305 LudwigVanQuixote
And I have said three times that the new batteries will make solar and wind practical economically quickly. The batteries that are currently deployed do not cut it. Why are such simple concepts beyond you?
LVQ - I have a PV field that powers my house. Here is the thing - it is grid tied. I don't have to have batteries - instead, during the day my excess power flows out to the grid and powers other folks homes near me. My meter runs backwards - theirs run forward. SDG&E bills them and then they only bill me if my meter moves forward in the month (which it does when I use more at night than my excess in the day).
What is missing here? A battery. There is no need for batteries for net metered systems. Now I got mine because I wanted clean power and could afford the luxury of such a system. Most can't - even with the tax incentives.
Point is that batteries aren't holding things back. And the tax incentives are what makes such systems produce a modest return on investment for those willing to tie up the money. Without the incentives, the output doesn't pay for the cost of a grid tied system.
Battery technology is not the impediment - we need higher yield panels produced at a lower cost (and without emitting greenhouse gasses in the production process).
| 362 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:34:14pm |
re: #356 Coracle
Is it? I thought sufficient nuclear plants to replace 100% of our needs would be in the hundreds of billions also. Am I wrong?
A mere fraction of the bailout, that would create thousands of jobs and save hundreds of billions going to the Saudis and others. We win in the long run.
| 363 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:34:22pm |
re: #340 Sharmuta
Hi Shar - maybe you ought to write to Warren Buffett, I think he could use some cheering up about now.
| 364 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:34:44pm |
re: #356 Coracle
Is it? I thought sufficient nuclear plants to replace 100% of our needs would be in the hundreds of billions also. Am I wrong?
High, but companies have found they can make money on nuclear plants, while the few solar plants built went out of business.
If something is economical, companies will invest in it.
| 365 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:35:51pm |
re: #351 Racer X
Yeah see I don't get that whole Brazil thing. Why are we "loaning" them a billion dollars to drill oil? They will just sell the oil back to us and make a hefty profit. Let them drill on their own. Hell, give them a contract to buy X amount from them. But loan them money to drill?
Drill here, drill now.
With nuclear tipped drills.
OK I made that last part up.
We could require part of the payment be in purchase options letting us buy some oil at below market costs. And the loan might well be needed to cover the capital purchases Brazil will need to make to exploit the field. I say we loan them the money but mandate the services and capital purchases be from American firms. That way they spend the money we loan them here and make money at both ends. It's like what China does with us.
| 366 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:36:00pm |
re: #361 karmic_inquisitor
My system is grid tied too - but if power goes out, they'll kill my system too, so I don't accidentally energize the lines while someone's working on them. In order to be fully off grid, I'd need batteries.
| 367 |
Cato the Elder Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:36:09pm |
| 368 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:36:22pm |
re: #364 Kosh's Shadow
High, but companies have found they can make money on nuclear plants, while the few solar plants built went out of business.
If something is economical, companies will invest in it.
Must be why they're looking to build wind farms.
| 369 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:36:49pm |
re: #362 LudwigVanQuixote
A mere fraction of the bailout, that would create thousands of jobs and save hundreds of billions going to the Saudis and others. We win in the long run.
Same could be said for the solar plan I mentioned.
| 370 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:37:15pm |
re: #361 karmic_inquisitor
LVQ - I have a PV field that powers my house. Here is the thing - it is grid tied. I don't have to have batteries - instead, during the day my excess power flows out to the grid and powers other folks homes near me. My meter runs backwards - theirs run forward. SDG&E bills them and then they only bill me if my meter moves forward in the month (which it does when I use more at night than my excess in the day).
What is missing here? A battery. There is no need for batteries for net metered systems. Now I got mine because I wanted clean power and could afford the luxury of such a system. Most can't - even with the tax incentives.
Point is that batteries aren't holding things back. And the tax incentives are what makes such systems produce a modest return on investment for those willing to tie up the money. Without the incentives, the output doesn't pay for the cost of a grid tied system.
Battery technology is not the impediment - we need higher yield panels produced at a lower cost (and without emitting greenhouse gasses in the production process).
That only works because those people are still drawing off of the grid - and so are you at night.
If everyone tried to run everything solar, you would have issues when it got dark. Also that proves my point, if you are powering others and taking care of your own needs, then if you had nice batteries, you might be able to take care of yourself through the night - though that is unlikely.
| 371 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:38:32pm |
re: #343 Cato the Elder
You're right. Just don't try to put one where it might spoil the view of a Kennedy.
Unless they're headed out to the middle of Nowhere, Flyovercountry- I think we'll be okay.
| 372 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:38:39pm |
re: #367 Cato the Elder
Вы моль?
I don't have a Cyrilic keyboard... But just to fuel speculation about my orthodoxy, I will say
Russia Matt
:)
| 373 |
NY Nana Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:39:07pm |
re: #322 Pvt Bin Jammin
Have fun! I am off to sleep.
Want me to sing for you? I am a perfect monotone. In school, and sleep-away camp? Any musical we did, I had to mouth the words...and I used to sing daughter to sleep, until she was about 11, and very politely asked me to please, please not sing to her anymore...I asked her why, and she said 'you can't carry a tune, but I love having you all to myself'! And my 9 year old granddaughter, who has perfect pitch? She asked if she could sing to me instead!
/Kids say the darnedest things!
G'nite, and sweet dreams, Lizards!
| 374 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:40:00pm |
re: #369 Coracle
Same could be said for the solar plan I mentioned.
True that.
However, Solar in of itself is not sufficient for America's energy needs. It would never work to power a big city - because of the watt/meter issue.
The only technology I know of that could really take care of it is nuclear.
| 375 |
solomonpanting Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:40:50pm |
| 376 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:40:55pm |
re: #368 Sharmuta
Must be why they're looking to build wind farms.
Yes, I have said other times (not so much in this thread, though) about wind farms.
I'm not sure that they would be making money without the tax breaks, though.
However, just because Ted Kennedy doesn't want one off Cape Cod, I want it. Maybe he's afraid he'll run into it the next time he drives off a bridge.
| 377 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:41:35pm |
re: #376 Kosh's Shadow
Yes, I have said other times (not so much in this thread, though) about wind farms.
I'm not sure that they would be making money without the tax breaks, though.
However, just because Ted Kennedy doesn't want one off Cape Cod, I want it. Maybe he's afraid he'll run into it the next time he drives off a bridge.
LOL! And now its time for me to go to bed. Goodnight all.
| 378 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:41:46pm |
Something else to mention -
Batteries are made of nasty shit. Making them is nasty. Disposal is nasty.
Mega capacitors hold more promise for people who want less impact on the planet.
| 379 |
Coracle Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:42:22pm |
re: #377 Dark_Falcon
LOL! And now its time for me to go to bed. Goodnight all.
That's a good idea.
Later, folks.
| 380 |
realwest Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:44:18pm |
Well it's been fun and at least for me, educational as well!
I hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
Goodnight, all.
| 381 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:46:44pm |
re: #378 karmic_inquisitor
The Rokkasho wind farm in Japan has non-toxic batteries.
| 382 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:47:37pm |
re: #381 Sharmuta
The Rokkasho wind farm in Japan has non-toxic batteries.
I'm really impressed with how much you have been studying this up Sharm. Good on you!
| 383 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:48:11pm |
And good night; I have to be up way too soon
| 384 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:50:34pm |
re: #237 CommonCents
I need my sleep. I'm outta here. Hopefully the planet will still be here when I wake up.
You are all into this and are more versed on the topic so perhaps you have a "hammer" for this one too. I saw a story recently about a massive snake fossil that lived in South America. The comment was made that the temperatures would have had to be much higher in order for a creature of that size to survive. What is your take on that?
Much higher than what? If you are saying that in the past The Earth was warmer and wetter in certain epochs than it is now, you are not saying anything new. What you seem to be missing is how much less dry Earth there was in those days.
| 385 |
Sharmuta Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:52:12pm |
re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote
I have inside information on this wind farm I keep saying is coming thanks to a friend. One of the wind farms they've used as a model is Rokkasho, and I took the time to look into it. If the Japanese can make it work for them, I see no reason to think we can't make it work for us as well.
| 386 |
freetoken Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:54:17pm |
re: #296 realwest
The French use standardized reactors, which has saved the French substantial costs... here in the US we tended to make each reactor unique.
The French now use what is termed a Pressurized Water Reactor. Thus, like American reactors, they are not making very good use of the potential that exists.
The Europeans in particular are at risk of Uranium shortages if they don't transition to a "breeder" type of reactor. Uranium has to be imported to Europe as they have no usable deposits of their own.
The Earth is full of radioactive elements - Uranium and Thorium. However, the quantity is quite dispersed and thus only where there are concentrated enough deposits does mining become tractable. Australia and Canada are leading producers of Uranium ore.
Again, the issue is one of economics and security. Breeder reactors using the current store of "waste", or a Thorium type of reactor using known Thorium sources, are potentially able to keep us supplied for several centuries.
| 387 |
swamprat Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:56:13pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
No, that part is certainly sensible.
| 388 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 10:56:31pm |
re: #385 Sharmuta
I have inside information on this wind farm I keep saying is coming thanks to a friend. One of the wind farms they've used as a model is Rokkasho, and I took the time to look into it. If the Japanese can make it work for them, I see no reason to think we can't make it work for us as well.
Exactly.
| 390 |
swamprat Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:01:48pm |
re: #384 LudwigVanQuixote
Much higher than what? If you are saying that in the past The Earth was warmer and wetter in certain epochs than it is now, you are not saying anything new. What you seem to be missing is how much less dry Earth there was in those days.
We need to keep all the water we can.
The sea is saltier.
There is less water now.
Temps are a red herring.
We need to keep our water.
| 391 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:03:13pm |
re: #370 LudwigVanQuixote
That only works because those people are still drawing off of the grid - and so are you at night.
If everyone tried to run everything solar, you would have issues when it got dark. Also that proves my point, if you are powering others and taking care of your own needs, then if you had nice batteries, you might be able to take care of yourself through the night - though that is unlikely.
It doesn't really prove your point - it salvages an aspect of it.
Are we shifting the argument a bit? Because having the industrialized United States run off of batteries at night is no small problem with a solution right around the corner. I had no idea that you were proposing such a thing. Batteries would make for about as lousy a long term technology as one could come up with for storing such a massive amount of energy over night. Night after night.
You'd be better off developing a farm of massive flywheels to convert the energy into kinetic energy and then convert it back at night. Batteries are high maintenance and highly toxic. If we are ok with maintenance and toxicity on such a scale then how can anyone oppose nuclear?
Getting back to the core proposition, my point was that panels without batteries are not cost effective yet. So how can batteries (even if they can be made for free) make panels cost effective?
| 392 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:09:33pm |
re: #391 karmic_inquisitor
I said from the get go, and this is the fifth time I am repeating it, that solar will never cover all of our energy needs as a nation. This is because of the watts/meter issue. I said that as a supplement the way to make solar really economically viable for wide scale deployment to individual homes, factories and malls is better battery storage. I also said that these better batteries have been developed.
The reason I am talking about individual homes, factories and malls is again, the watts/meter issue. This analysis utterly fails for a huge apartment flat which has a tiny roof in comparison to the people living inside.
| 393 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:10:46pm |
re: #391 karmic_inquisitor
It becomes cost effective because the more power you have available, as in when it is dark, the less you draw from the grid.
| 394 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:12:10pm |
re: #381 Sharmuta
The Rokkasho wind farm in Japan has non-toxic batteries.
Just a caveat -
That is a shill brokerage selling a pink sheet "story stock". I have invested in alternative energy stocks and there are lots of "story" stocks. Be carefull when reading such claims off of such sites - when it sounds so obvious and simple you think "I have stumbled on a gold mine".
But it trades in the pink sheets (NGKIF: Pink Sheets). No broker will lend a dime to buy a share.
Just the same, I will research the claim.
If you want to get "excited" about an alternate energy play there is wave power. But there are real problems involved in taking prototypes and making them into commercially deployable systems. OPTT [Link: www.equitygroups.com...] is an example - a leader in the field who is having a heck of a time getting working prototypes translated into utility grade systems.
No magic bullets.
| 395 |
Macker Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:15:38pm |
re: #343 Cato the Elder
Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.
| 396 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:27:33pm |
re: #381 Sharmuta
The Rokkasho wind farm in Japan has non-toxic batteries.
OK -
Guess who their leading competitor is in Sodium based batteries.
Also, there are safety concerns around the technology - highly explosive (Sodium).
Still researching more ...
| 397 |
karmic_inquisitor Thu, Aug 20, 2009 11:41:34pm |
re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote
I said from the get go, and this is the fifth time I am repeating it, that solar will never cover all of our energy needs as a nation. This is because of the watts/meter issue. I said that as a supplement the way to make solar really economically viable for wide scale deployment to individual homes, factories and malls is better battery storage. I also said that these better batteries have been developed.
The reason I am talking about individual homes, factories and malls is again, the watts/meter issue. This analysis utterly fails for a huge apartment flat which has a tiny roof in comparison to the people living inside.
Do you even bother to read what people post or do you assume that because they don't agree with something that you posted that you have to conflate their statements and broaden your assertions to come out on top?
I didn't say you made any such claim.
You took me down the path of "night storage" in your defense of your "batteries are the last impediment" claim. I didn't introduce it - you did.
So your "fifth time" crap is simply an awkward attempt at an insult rather than anything contributing to clarity.
My point - the only point - is that regardless of battery technology PV solar does not pay returns in excess of its costs. Period. End of story. Without subsidy it has a market for people who need energy and don't have access to the grid as well as well meaning people with money.
Solar water heating is different - it does pay. That is why there are no subsidies for things like solar pool heating systems in Southern California. People buy them based on their economic value. Unlike PV.
That intrinsic problem is the one that keeps PV solar from massive adoption (unlike solar water heating). Not battery technology. Evade and shift the argument all that you wish but the cold and harsh reality of basic economics does not go away.
| 398 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, Aug 21, 2009 1:26:55am |
I have to commend that one of the deniers on the science board brought an actual paper as a link. However, they inferred from the title that the paper they brought somehow supported that Greenland was not melting. Pity they did not read the paper they brought.
[Link: www.agu.org...]
Here is the abstract. Highlights are mine.
High-resolution (∼11 km) regional climate modeling shows total annual precipitation on the Greenland ice sheet for 1958–2007 to be up to 24% and surface mass balance up to 63% higher than previously thought. The largest differences occur in coastal southeast Greenland, where the much higher resolution facilitates capturing snow accumulation peaks that past five-fold coarser resolution regional climate models missed. The surface mass balance trend over the full 1958–2007 period reveals the classic pattern expected in a warming climate, with increased snowfall in the interior and enhanced runoff from the marginal ablation zone. In the period 1990–2007, total runoff increased significantly, 3% per year. The absolute increase in runoff is especially pronounced in the southeast, where several outlet glaciers have recently accelerated. This detailed knowledge of Greenland's surface mass balance provides the foundation for estimating and predicting the overall mass balance and freshwater discharge of the ice sheet.
With time and patience, now that the deniers are linking to actual papers from good sources, they may soon start reading them.
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