Outrageous Outrage of the Day!

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Of all the incredibly idiotic outrages over which the right wing blogosphere has hyperventilated (and there were hundreds last year) this has to be the flat out dumbest one yet. From Ed Morrissey, who specializes in outrageous outrages: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Picture of the Day.

And it’s not just Morrissey; Glenn Reynolds is also engaging in political analysis via Flickr. And Ann Althouse, too!

The trifecta of silly wingnut nontroversies.

UPDATE at 1/3/10 9:20:11 pm:

Since turnabout is fair play, you too can Analyze Glenn Reynolds’ Body Language!

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150 comments
1 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:19:03pm

I think they are picking up tips on how to fill programming vacuum from O'Reilly's body language segment or something...

2 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:21:00pm

I think the interesting story is the incestuousness of it. Once one of them picks up on... well anything, the rest fall in like rabid wolverines!

3 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:21:17pm

I see boredom in Obama's eyes, but then look who he's listening to.

4 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:21:35pm

They are inviting their readers to caption the photo. A hot air comment section of the day, prepared just for us lucky bastards.

5 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:21:59pm

I'm not sure I would classify this as "outrage" per se. Mockery, or shit-stirring perhaps.

Because Biden certainly is a buffoon.

6 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:22:03pm

They'd get more hits and be more honest if they were posting this and saying "analyze the body language".

7 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:22:54pm

re: #6 Thanos

They'd get more hits and be more honest if they were posting this and saying "analyze the body language".

Didn't they already do that?

8 albusteve  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:23:18pm

Joe could use some hair plugs

9 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:24:18pm

re: #7 JasonA

Didn't they already do that?

Probably -- hey, there's Andy Warhol again...

10 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:24:45pm

re: #9 Thanos

Probably -- hey, there's Andy Warhol again...

Yeah, I noticed that. Damn Commie...

11 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:25:39pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

They are inviting their readers to caption the photo. A hot air comment section of the day, prepared just for us lucky bastards.

Yep, the racist comments have already started to flow.

12 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:26:45pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

They are inviting their readers to caption the photo. A hot air comment section of the day, prepared just for us lucky bastards.

Neo: Why do my eyes hurt?
Morpheus: You've never used them before.

13 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:28:20pm

Oh brother. Glenn Reynolds and Ed Morrissey have lost their minds. I mean have you ever seen these guys? Is this really all about jealousy?

Body language reading is worthy of trashy grocery store gossip magazine. That's about the level of their audience.

14 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:28:34pm

For example:

Obama thinks to himself…”You’re just lucky to be here,Joe. You could be out there running for reelection this year like the rest of my biaatches….”

ted c on January 3, 2010 at 7:11 PM

[...]

Shine your own f#@cking shoes, Joe.

John Eric on January 3, 2010 at 7:58 PM

15 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:29:19pm

re: #11 Charles

Yep, the racist comments have already started to flow.

Here's my caption:

Obama is saying, "Hey Joe, the guy with the camera is saying from his angle you bear a striking resemblance to Mikhail Gorbachev."

16 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:29:52pm

re: #14 Charles

I know its terrible, and agaisnt everything I stand for, but I found that bottom one ("Shine your own Fucking shoes, Joe") hilarious.


I feel shame.

17 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:32:25pm

re: #12 Racer X

Neo: Why do my eyes hurt?
Morpheus: You've never used them before.

Upding for quoting the matrix. Here's another one:

Smith to Neo: Still using all the muscles except the one that matters.

18 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:32:27pm

re: #13 Gus 802

Oh brother. Glenn Reynolds and Ed Morrissey have lost their minds. I mean have you ever seen these guys? Is this really all about jealousy?

Body language reading is worthy of trashy grocery store gossip magazine. That's about the level of their audience.

It's right up there with counting words in speeches to create fake fauxtrage content.

19 HelloDare  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:33:55pm

Photo contests happened all the time with Bush.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

[Link: livefrankly.wordpress.com...]

[Link: www.runwildshow.com...]

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

[Link: www.rightpundits.com...]

Image: bush%20caption%20contest.15.png

[Link: www.topplebush.com...]

[Link: www.beliefnet.com...]

[Link: whiskyrebellion.com...]

20 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:34:15pm

By scrutinizing the body language in this photo, you can see without a doubt that the groom is so bored he's fallen asleep. Or he's dead.

21 Irish Rose  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:34:34pm

I see fatigue there, nothing more.

22 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:34:34pm

re: #18 Thanos

It's right up there with counting words in speeches to create fake fauxtrage content.

That's right folks. Coming up next on the Ed and Glenn show, our daily body language segment. Today segment we'll analyze President Obama -- is he really just tired and leaning against the wall or is there more behind this?

//

23 jaunte  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:34:44pm

re: #18 Thanos

You must have noticed in that photo that the fingers of Obama's left hand... are hidden!1!

24 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:35:16pm

re: #19 HelloDare

Tu quoque already?

25 lightspeed  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:35:39pm

Unbelievable!!! Outrageous!!! Obama is wearing an American flag pin!!

26 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:35:49pm

re: #24 Gus 802

damn you beat me to it :(

27 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:35:58pm

re: #19 HelloDare

and it was lame useless content fill then too...

28 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:36:26pm

It's amazing how the executive office ages people. Obama looks a little older and kind of tired, and Biden doesn't look like he's in any condition to tell people they need to hit the gym. The office aged Bush too.

29 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:37:20pm

Todd Rundgren Bang the Drum All Day

Youtube Video
30 wiffersnapper  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:38:12pm

Wow, are these people serious? *facepalm*

31 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:41:34pm

They really think the photo is a rare find, a real gem.

Via Glenn Reynolds, the White House actually published this on their Flickr page:
32 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:41:43pm

He could just be in mid blink.

That's the funny thing about photos and still images. One split second of time, mid movement, can make anyone look strange or silly.

33 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:42:10pm

I...uh...don't really know what to say... So, I'll do this;

Youtube Video

/Apologies to everyone in the Mid-Atlantic states. :)
34 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:42:12pm

re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth

forbidden!

35 HelloDare  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:42:53pm

re: #27 Thanos

and it was lame useless content fill then too...

Yes, it was. But I never recall a LGF thread decrying it .

36 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:43:58pm

OK, the president has been caught making funny faces on camera.

Meh.

37 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:44:01pm

re: #33 Varek Raith

I...uh...don't really know what to say... So, I'll do this;

/Apologies to everyone in the Mid-Atlantic states. :)

Ah, Bikini atoll, shot Baker. My favourite. Still scares the hell out of me, and it was only 20KT.

38 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:44:32pm

re: #37 John Neverbend

Ah, Bikini atoll, shot Baker. My favourite. Still scares the hell out of me, and it was only 20KT.

Yep, one of my favs too!

39 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:44:47pm

re: #35 HelloDare

Yes, it was. But I never recall a LGF thread decrying it .

So your going all out with the tu quoque? Good luck with that.

40 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:45:31pm

re: #39 Gus 802

I don't htink he knows what it means >>

41 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:45:53pm

re: #35 HelloDare

Yes, it was. But I never recall a LGF thread decrying it .

Your lack of outrage over this outrageous outrage is outrageous!

42 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:46:07pm

"— just remember, if you criticize analyze Obama’s White House Flickr feed for import, you’re a racist dumbass!

Posted at by Glenn Reynolds at 2:00 pm

Fixed that for ya Glen.

43 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:46:12pm

re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth

He could just be in mid blink.

That's the funny thing about photos and still images. One split second of time, mid movement, can make anyone look strange or silly.

I disagree, this site was filled with criticisms of the left's stupidity regarding Bush. I was critical of the left when they did it, I am critical of the right doing it too. That being said, I think there are some here that took joy in in the Bush critiques and there are some here that take delight in those against Obama.

44 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:46:36pm

re: #40 windsagio

I don't htink he knows what it means >>

Oh, yeah!...uh...neither does the left!11!
///

45 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:46:44pm

re: #38 Varek Raith

Yep, one of my favs too!


Great music. Anybody know what it's from? You'll be surprised.

46 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:47:06pm

re: #34 windsagio

Bummer. Here's the main page of the pics I tried to link to. Warning, NSFW boobie links on that website.

Linky

47 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:47:11pm

re: #43 jayzee

I disagree, this site was filled with criticisms of the left's stupidity regarding Bush. I was critical of the left when they did it, I am critical of the right doing it too. That being said, I think there are some here that took joy in in the Bush critiques and there are some here that take delight in those against Obama.

Oops. PIMF. Wrong quote.

48 albusteve  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:47:32pm

re: #39 Gus 802

So your going all out with the tu quoque? Good luck with that.

it adds another aspect to another mundane outrage thread...some thing to debate anyway

49 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:47:45pm

re: #35 HelloDare

Yes, it was. But I never recall a LGF thread decrying it .

I disagree, this site was filled with criticisms of the left's stupidity regarding Bush. I was critical of the left when they did it, I am critical of the right doing it too. That being said, I think there are some here that took joy in in the Bush critiques and there are some here that take delight in those against Obama.

50 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:48:06pm

Greater Wingnuttia News Update :

"OMG he's wearing a bow-tie! Don't you see what this means? On top of everything else, he's paying homage to his main man Farrakhan!"/

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:48:52pm

re: #43 jayzee

I disagree, this site was filled with criticisms of the left's stupidity regarding Bush. I was critical of the left when they did it, I am critical of the right doing it too. That being said, I think there are some here that took joy in in the Bush critiques and there are some here that take delight in those against Obama.

I think you may have quoted the wrong Lizard. I don't see how your post quoted above follows my #32.

52 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:49:07pm

re: #38 Varek Raith

Yep, one of my favs too!


Mind you, the one that made the poster art was French. Feh!

Seriously though, who would want to put on their wall a poster of a monstrously large explosion?

53 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:49:15pm

Here's a video from the Iran protests I hadn't seen before.....
Basijis flanked from 2 sides and teared apart

Liveleak Video
54 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:49:45pm

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

yeah I caught it above. Sorry. But I updinged you for the naughty pics.

55 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:50:27pm

June Carter and Hank Williams on some old variety show:

Youtube Video
56 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:52:17pm

re: #54 jayzee

yeah I caught it above. Sorry. But I updinged you for the naughty pics.

I see that now. The page I linked is pics of people in mid speech or mid motion that look real silly or strange, but they are not naughty. The other links on that page, though, are. Kind of.

57 carlitos  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:53:32pm

re: #50 Jimmah

Greater Wingnuttia News Update :

"OMG he's wearing a bow-tie! Don't you see what this means? On top of everything else, he's paying homage to his main man Farrakhan!"/

Actually, from what i can see, it looks like Obama tied his own bowtie, and Biden has a clip-on. Can't see the clip, but with that collar it makes sense. Obama's looks real. Which I like.

And the shoe-shine comment was funny and satire and not racist.

58 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:54:43pm

re: #52 John Neverbend

Mind you, the one that made the poster art was French. Feh!

Seriously though, who would want to put on their wall a poster of a monstrously large explosion?

I have almost all of the above ground test done by most nations on a dvd somewhere. Though, I often confuse the test's names and country of origin. Do you recall the one that had the burning palmtrees just before they were hit by the shockwave? I've been trying to find screencaps of that to use for my desktop background. :)

59 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:54:47pm

re: #57 carlitos

Actually, from what i can see, it looks like Obama tied his own bowtie, and Biden has a clip-on. Can't see the clip, but with that collar it makes sense. Obama's looks real. Which I like.

And the shoe-shine comment was funny and satire and not racist.

Nothing is better than a tied bow tie, especially when you can untie it at the end of the night and really be cool.

60 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:54:49pm

AWESOME: Chinese man throws bicycle at thieves.........AWESOMELY AWESOME: As they ride past him on their motor-scooter

Liveleak Video

Two thieves on a motor-scooter flew by and snatched a womans purse on a street in Wenzhou, China. Surveillance video shows a man riding a bicycle. As he was passing by the front of a hotel near where the thievery happened, he stopped, calmly got off his bicycle, picked it up, and then threw it at the thieves. The bicycle hit them, they lost control, and crashed to the ground.

61 HelloDare  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:55:47pm

re: #39 Gus 802

So your going all out with the tu quoque? Good luck with that.

Tu quoque is only a fallacious argument when one used to divert attention from the issue at hand, or to avoid the argument.

I acknowledged that the contests were "lame and useless content fill".

62 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:56:08pm

re: #60 Racer X

AWESOME: Chinese man throws bicycle at thieves...AWESOMELY AWESOME: As they ride past him on their motor-scooter


[Video]Two thieves on a motor-scooter flew by and snatched a womans purse on a street in Wenzhou, China. Surveillance video shows a man riding a bicycle. As he was passing by the front of a hotel near where the thievery happened, he stopped, calmly got off his bicycle, picked it up, and then threw it at the thieves. The bicycle hit them, they lost control, and crashed to the ground.

That's badass. :)

63 carlitos  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:56:21pm

re: #59 jayzee

Nothing is better than a tied bow tie, especially when you can untie it at the end of the night and really be cool.

Yup - it's like an old ad for "what sort of man reads Playboy" or James Bond late at night.

64 albusteve  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:57:13pm

I already forgot what the outrage is...what's the outrage again?

65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:58:49pm

re: #64 albusteve

We're out of beer. Now act outraged.

66 HelloDare  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:59:20pm

re: #49 jayzee

I disagree, this site was filled with criticisms of the left's stupidity regarding Bush. I was critical of the left when they did it, I am critical of the right doing it too. That being said, I think there are some here that took joy in in the Bush critiques and there are some here that take delight in those against Obama.

I never said this website didn't have criticism of the left's stupidity regarding Bush. I said "Yes, it was. But I never recall a LGF thread decrying it." I meant I never saw Charles post a thread about it. Maybe he did. But I never saw one.

67 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:00:01pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

I have almost all of the above ground test done by most nations on a dvd somewhere. Though, I often confuse the test's names and country of origin. Do you recall the one that had the burning palmtrees just before they were hit by the shockwave? I've been trying to find screencaps of that to use for my desktop background. :)

I believe that one was the famous Bravo shot in Operation Castle, the one that was 2.5 times more powerful than predicted. I will see if I can dig it up and provide the link. Beats trainspotting, eh?

68 The Left  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:00:10pm

re: #61 HelloDare

Tu quoque is only a fallacious argument when one used to divert attention from the issue at hand, or to avoid the argument.

I acknowledged that the contests were "lame and useless content fill".

A tu quoque argument is always a fallacy by definition; it is responding to an argument with "Yeah? You're another!"
In other words, it isn't a refutation.

(I have no idea if you made a tu quoque, btw, I'm multitasking. Just being a pedant.)

69 albusteve  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:00:28pm

re: #65 Slumbering Behemoth

We're out of beer. Now act outraged.

the rad right bores me to death...running out of beer is huge tho!

70 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:01:07pm

re: #64 albusteve

I already forgot what the outrage is...what's the outrage again?

That old June Carter clip really threw me off. (thank goodness)

71 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:05:34pm

re: #67 John Neverbend

I believe that one was the famous Bravo shot in Operation Castle, the one that was 2.5 times more powerful than predicted. I will see if I can dig it up and provide the link. Beats trainspotting, eh?

...and here it is, complete with piano music by Rachmaninov.

Youtube Video
72 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:05:38pm

re: #67 John Neverbend

I believe that one was the famous Bravo shot in Operation Castle, the one that was 2.5 times more powerful than predicted. I will see if I can dig it up and provide the link. Beats trainspotting, eh?

Awesome, thanks. At least I have the name of it. I really should organize my nuclear test selection, it's a complete mess.

73 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:06:11pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

Awesome, thanks. At least I have the name of it. I really should organize my nuclear test selection, it's a complete mess.

Well, I suppose it's better than organizing one's sock drawer.

74 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:06:20pm

re: #69 albusteve

I am off to get some anyhow. Until the figure out a way to fit a cold one into a phone jack, you're on your own I'm afraid.

75 HelloDare  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:07:20pm

re: #68 iceweasel

A tu quoque argument is always a fallacy by definition; it is responding to an argument with "Yeah? You're another!"
In other words, it isn't a refutation.

(I have no idea if you made a tu quoque, btw, I'm multitasking. Just being a pedant.)

From your same source:

Not all uses of tu quoque arguments involve logical fallacy. One convenient and not fallacious way [to use tu quoque] is by pointing out the similarities between the activity of the criticizer ... and the activity about which he is being questioned. To label one [something] and not the other is ... itself a fallacy [of equivocation]. [...] Tu quoque is only a fallacy when one uses it so as to divert attention from the issue at hand, or to avoid or fail to respond to an argument that non-fallaciously gave one the burden of proof.[3]

76 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:08:20pm

re: #73 John Neverbend

Well, I suppose it's better than organizing one's sock drawer.

True. I started years ago just because I thought they looked...pretty. Now, I'm just starting to research the history behind them. It's actually almost as much fun as the tests themselves.

77 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:11:52pm

re: #75 HelloDare

Yer unusually brazen, I'll grant you that.

That being said, you were using your links to deflect the effect of the argument you perceived coming at you. You can attempt to quibble semantics, but your intention was quite clear.

78 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:12:05pm

re: #75 HelloDare

From your same source:

Not all uses of tu quoque arguments involve logical fallacy. One convenient and not fallacious way [to use tu quoque] is by pointing out the similarities between the activity of the criticizer ... and the activity about which he is being questioned. To label one [something] and not the other is ... itself a fallacy [of equivocation]. [...] Tu quoque is only a fallacy when one uses it so as to divert attention from the issue at hand, or to avoid or fail to respond to an argument that non-fallaciously gave one the burden of proof.[3]

I happen to agree that it gets used too frequently here and incorrectly. The way I understand it, if it is used as an argument, then it is a fallacy (for example, this was not wrong because they did it to us), however, pointing out that a wrong was done previously, while condemning such actions as a whole, does not a tu quoque fallacy.

79 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:16:11pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

True. I started years ago just because I thought they looked...pretty. Now, I'm just starting to research the history behind them. It's actually almost as much fun as the tests themselves.

The "physics" in the video is misleading. It was not a boosted device (that actually refers to fission bombs with the addition of a few grams of fusile material). The main fuel was lithium deuteride, and there was a lot of it. The primary was a fission bomb, but the video doesn't point out how you get from a fission explosion to a complete fusion explosion. The real physics behind it is very interesting, and it took the efforts of both Edward Teller and Stanislaw Ulam to figure it out.

80 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:17:59pm

re: #78 jayzee

(carrying on because this is a huge pet peeve)

Except that what people do is they don't call it explicitly. Its still the same intent and the same fallacy, just done with a touch of subtlety.

You're still trying to lessen the perceived fault, or at least get people to defend/argue about whatever you linked.

You can claim you're not, but that would be what we call in the biz 'lying'.

81 jaunte  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:19:26pm

re: #80 windsagio

It's a "deniaquoque."

82 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:19:40pm

re: #79 John Neverbend

The "physics" in the video is misleading. It was not a boosted device (that actually refers to fission bombs with the addition of a few grams of fusile material). The main fuel was lithium deuteride, and there was a lot of it. The primary was a fission bomb, but the video doesn't point out how you get from a fission explosion to a complete fusion explosion. The real physics behind it is very interesting, and it took the efforts of both Edward Teller and Stanislaw Ulam to figure it out.

Very interesting. Do you have some links to get me started? They can be technical or not, I just find this stuff way too interesting.

83 The Left  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:21:38pm

re: #75 HelloDare

From your same source:

Not all uses of tu quoque arguments involve logical fallacy. One convenient and not fallacious way [to use tu quoque] is by pointing out the similarities between the activity of the criticizer ... and the activity about which he is being questioned. To label one [something] and not the other is ... itself a fallacy [of equivocation]. [...] Tu quoque is only a fallacy when one uses it so as to divert attention from the issue at hand, or to avoid or fail to respond to an argument that non-fallaciously gave one the burden of proof.[3]

It's wiki, dude. That's why wiki isn't the best source. notice those little dots in the quote, signifying material has been removed?

When the technique of pointing out inconsistencies in your opponent's position or behaviour is used nonfallaciously, you are not making a tu quoque argument.

BTW, I've had time to check the thread, and you most definitely were using it in the fallacious sense, even if we concede that tu quoque can be used to cover argument forms that don't commit the fallacy-- which I do not.

84 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:24:02pm

My vote is to never use the term "tu quoque".

Who is with me?

85 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:24:37pm

re: #84 Racer X

wait, what?

You mean we should just let them get away with that crap?


Not likely :p

86 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:24:40pm

re: #84 Racer X

My vote is to never use the term "tu quoque".

Who is with me?

Not me this time. I find the term too valuable to give up.

87 jayzee  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:24:42pm

re: #80 windsagio

(carrying on because this is a huge pet peeve)

Except that what people do is they don't call it explicitly. Its still the same intent and the same fallacy, just done with a touch of subtlety.

You're still trying to lessen the perceived fault, or at least get people to defend/argue about whatever you linked.

You can claim you're not, but that would be what we call in the biz 'lying'.

HUH? What did I link? What am I trying to lessen? You on the pipe again?

88 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:26:05pm

Huh?re: #84 Racer X

My vote is to never use the term "tu quoque".

Who is with me?

Tu quoque or not tu quoque, that is the question.

89 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:26:31pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

Very interesting. Do you have some links to get me started? They can be technical or not, I just find this stuff way too interesting.

Read as much of Nuclear Weapons FAQ as you can. It becomes extremely technical at times, but I think it has everything in it.

90 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:26:36pm

re: #84 Racer X

My vote is to never use the term "tu quoque".

Who is with me?

You know, those lefty sites used to call for that sort of thing all the time as well.
/

91 The Left  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:26:49pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

Not me this time. I find the term too valuable to give up.

I had to upding you both on this. Arguments that devolve into tedious disquistions about the semantics of 'tu quoque' or anything else never go anywhere, and always distract from the actual issues. But it is a damn useful term.

My apologies for starting that tedious disquisition, btw.

92 Racer X  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:27:03pm

re: #90 Slumbering Behemoth

You know, those lefty sites used to call for that sort of thing all the time as well.
/

LOL!

93 John Neverbend  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:27:12pm

re: #84 Racer X

My vote is to never use the term "tu quoque".

Who is with me?


Ego quoque.

94 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:27:32pm

re: #89 John Neverbend

Read as much of Nuclear Weapons FAQ as you can. It becomes extremely technical at times, but I think it has everything in it.

Thanks!

95 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:28:12pm

re: #87 jayzee


Got my opponents crossed up a little there. "you" should refer to Hellodare.

Of course that doesn't make any of my points less true, or less valid.

96 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:28:25pm

Bad choice in photo selection if you ask me. My take, he has a look of disdain towards Biden. Or, he is high on drugs. Take your pick.

97 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:28:49pm

re: #91 iceweasel

its a funny trap. It IS a useful term, but semantics arguments are always awful and boring.

Is it better to let them deny it or to pursue the issue?


A conundrum.

98 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:29:01pm

Oh brother.

99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:29:46pm

re: #96 Green Machine

I'm sticking with mid-blink.

100 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:30:03pm

re: #96 Green Machine

I think you're a troll...to cold to grill, though :(

101 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:31:27pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm sticking with mid-blink.

I might say he's posing, but nobody's doing anything wrong. He even manages to look somewhat cool here. I still dislike his politics, but he may actually be learning how to be a better photographic subject.

102 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:33:27pm

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

I might say he's posing, but nobody's doing anything wrong. He even manages to look somewhat cool here. I still dislike his politics, but he may actually be learning how to be a better photographic subject.



Obama enters the Matrix.
:)

103 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:34:17pm

re: #100 Varek Raith

You have to admit, they seem to go out of their way in providing pics that can be made fun of, it's like no one looks at them before they are posted.

104 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:35:11pm

re: #103 Green Machine

...Or, you could stay your tongue and not make fun it?..

105 The Left  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:37:49pm

re: #97 windsagio

its a funny trap. It IS a useful term, but semantics arguments are always awful and boring.

Is it better to let them deny it or to pursue the issue?

A conundrum.

yeah,often better to show them how they're wrong without letting the issue be sidetracked by specific term usage. Which is exactly what I didn't do there.

106 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:39:12pm

re: #105 iceweasel

well me either, we're all allowed some lapses >

107 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:39:15pm

re: #105 iceweasel

yeah,often better to show them how they're wrong without letting the issue be sidetracked by specific term usage. Which is exactly what I didn't do there.

Lol @ your avatar.
/Funny how true it seems to be, huh? :)

108 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:40:00pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

Why? I think pointing out what I perceive to be a problem is a good thing. To each his own,

109 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:41:51pm

re: #108 Green Machine

...okay, so you're going to be extremely petty and attack a still photograph... to what end? What 'problem' do you perceive?
To each his own, indeed.

110 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:44:27pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

the problem is that he doesn't like Obama. Pretty straightforward, imo :)

111 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:45:59pm

re: #110 windsagio

the problem is that he doesn't like Obama. Pretty straightforward, imo :)

Well I don't like him either, but I still don't get worked up over a minor photo. There's simply no 'there' there.

112 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:46:10pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

My perception is that the WH doesn't review their material very well prior to posting it. It gives the impression of being inept. They don't need that kind of image. Providing ammo to your opponents is not smart.

113 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:47:13pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

well not to suck up, but you seem to have that basic level of self-awareness that many on the right seem to lack these days.

114 Girth  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:48:41pm

re: #112 Green Machine

My perception is that the WH doesn't review their material very well prior to posting it. It gives the impression of being inept. They don't need that kind of image. Providing ammo to your opponents is not smart.

My perception is that it doesn't matter, if they controlled images better, the wingnuts would scream about how fake and staged everything is. Or did that happen already? I lose track of this stupid shit.

115 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:49:27pm

re: #108 Green Machine

Why? I think pointing out what I perceive to be a problem is a good thing. To each his own,

Problem? What problem? Is it that once the Russians get a hold of this picture that's it, they invade at dawn?

I'll tell you what's the problem. The problem is going off half cocked about every stupid little thing and this photograph is one of many. Whether this image is attractive or not isn't really an issue but there have been many candid photographs made of former presidents and none of them amount to anything but the record of the presidency.

Full stop.

116 Fionn MacCumhaill  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:49:44pm

Back to the picture ...

This picture really is begging for a caption contest.

The idea that immediately popped into my mind was to photoshop a thought balloon into the picture which shows Obama thinking "His fly is open."

On the topic of nuttery, right wing and otherwise, sometimes I think maybe there's just something in the water. There seems to be a general global decline in rationality. Consider some of the comments at the end of this item:

[Link: www.smithsonianmag.com...]

117 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:50:05pm

re: #114 Girth

thats an interesting thought. Perhaps the emphasis is on 'candid' and 'real' rather than 'staged and fake-looking'. ALso, yeah they'd lose either way.

118 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:51:11pm

re: #114 Girth

While I agree with what you say, it is the perception (of the People) that counts, not the reality.

119 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:53:34pm

re: #115 Gus 802


Yes that is the problem, all those stupid little things that just keep adding up.

120 Girth  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:54:14pm

re: #118 Green Machine

While I agree with what you say, it is the perception (of the People) that counts, not the reality.

And the people who are getting their panties in a bunch over this are a very loud and very vocal minority who will wail and gnash their teeth at everything that comes out of this White House.

No one else cares.

121 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:57:20pm

re: #112 Green Machine

An administration that promised to be transparent (warts and all) is being hammered for displaying the warts...............

If they were being too proactive in protecting the presidents image do you doubt for a second that the same people decrying the display of candid moments where the President is not looking his best would instead attack them for doing the very opposite?

122 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:57:34pm

re: #119 Green Machine

Yes that is the problem, all those stupid little things that just keep adding up.

What stupid little things? The image in question isn't stupid and I'm pretty sure if showed it to John Q. Public they would find it acceptable. The only people that would find it stupid is a tiny minority of the American public locked in their house sitting behind the computer all day long expressing their neurotic obsession through their keyboards.

123 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:00:16pm

re: #116 Fionn MacCumhaill

Back to the picture ...

This picture really is begging for a caption contest.

The idea that immediately popped into my mind was to photoshop a thought balloon into the picture which shows Obama thinking "His fly is open."

On the topic of nuttery, right wing and otherwise, sometimes I think maybe there's just something in the water. There seems to be a general global decline in rationality. Consider some of the comments at the end of this item:

[Link: www.smithsonianmag.com...]

Any set of unmoderated comments will likely turn into a sewer. There are simply a lot of people who are crackpots online, even though they may be sane in real life.

124 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:00:27pm

re: #119 Green Machine


It really really isn't.

Its 45million uninsured, 10% unemployment, an economy yet to rebound, banks still not lending, a potention flu pandemic still in the ether and people trying to take planes out of the sky........ and the numbers people are worried about adding up are those that involve the President looking like he needs a couple of more minutes in bed of a morning.............?????

Really. Right you are. Sorry to have gotten in the way........... go right ahead, make merry, make hay, do whatcha gotta do.......

125 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:05:30pm

re: #121 wozzablog

All I can say is, if it was up to me, that pic would never have been published. It does nothing for the image of the President. They should be more selective in providing images that show him in the proper light.

As stated, the photo by itself is a non event. I just feel his team is not providing him the top tier expertise required.

126 blueraven  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:09:03pm

re: #125 Green Machine

All I can say is, if it was up to me, that pic would never have been published. It does nothing for the image of the President. They should be more selective in providing images that show him in the proper light.

As stated, the photo by itself is a non event. I just feel his team is not providing him the top tier expertise required.

You keep repeating that, but what is so objectionable about this photo?

127 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:11:20pm

re: #125 Green Machine

All I can say is, if it was up to me, that pic would never have been published. It does nothing for the image of the President. They should be more selective in providing images that show him in the proper light.

As stated, the photo by itself is a non event. I just feel his team is not providing him the top tier expertise required.

Oh, please.

There are hundreds of pictures of Barack Obama published every single day. This picture is just another in a very long series of photos, and it reveals no more and no less than any one of the others. The silliness of assigning some kind of special significance to this photo is the exact reason why I posted this.

128 Green Machine  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:12:22pm

re: #126 blueraven

See #96

129 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:12:24pm

re: #126 blueraven

You keep repeating that, but what is so objectionable about this photo?

i don't think he has a major objection. I think that Green Machine is simply man whose sanity is warring with ODS. Like me, he dislikes Obama, but its getting to him in a way it isn't getting to me these days. He should be fine if his sanity wins the battle. For that reason I suggest we all be nice.

130 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:12:53pm

I'll repeat myself. The American public won't give a damn. If anything I bet they would have the reverse opinion in massive numbers. The outraged minority represent a tiny niche of America. That's why the internet became popular was to find an outlet for small groups of people and the Hot Air and Instapundit audience is a microcosm of America.

The background behind the picture is that it was taken before the Kennedy Center Honors on December 6, 2009. Honored that day was "writer, composer, actor, director, and producer Mel Brooks; pianist and composer Dave Brubeck; opera singer Grace Bumbry; actor, director, and producer Robert De Niro; and singer and songwriter Bruce Springsteen."

Guess what? These people are extremely popular and admired members of society whether they like it or not. That includes Bruce Springsteen who regardless of how you feel about his politics Americans do-not-care.

Oh, and here's a picture of Obama with Robert DiNiro and Bruce Springsteen taken on the very same day. Eat your heart out critics.

131 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:13:40pm

re: #96 Green Machine

Bad choice in photo selection if you ask me. My take, he has a look of disdain towards Biden. Or, he is high on drugs. Take your pick.

OK, I just saw this post from you, and you're not welcome to continue with this sick crap at LGF.

132 Girth  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:13:55pm

RAWR!
This picture is not perfect and all pictures of the POTUS must be perfect and therefore Obama does not believe in American Exceptionalism and must be impeached!!!1!11ELEVEN!!ONE!
///

133 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:17:16pm

re: #131 Charles

OK, I just saw this post from you, and you're not welcome to continue with this sick crap at LGF.

And we have people who melt down over a photo. Wow, I still have a hard time accepting how crazy things are right now. I know its true, but it's just so painful I have hard time accepting it.

134 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:32:38pm

This is pretty funny. A right wing movement with Fox news and Glen Beck in their crosshairs. ACTION ALERT: FORCING GLENN BECK’S HAND For not pushing the nirther story. I love it. I hope his whole show turns into stealth Nirther callers flouncing on the air.

135 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:33:41pm

re: #134 Mich-again

Its bad, but I desperately hope that thats real.

It would be so funny!

136 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:36:12pm

re: #134 Mich-again

This is pretty funny. A right wing movement with Fox news and Glen Beck in their crosshairs. ACTION ALERT: FORCING GLENN BECK’S HAND For not pushing the nirther story. I love it. I hope his whole show turns into stealth Nirther callers flouncing on the air.

Memo to nirthers: The reason Glen Beck doesn't address your "issue" is because even he's close enough to sanity to know that its a loser. Instead of calling in, try getting a life instead.

137 Girth  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:37:28pm

re: #134 Mich-again

This is pretty funny. A right wing movement with Fox news and Glen Beck in their crosshairs. ACTION ALERT: FORCING GLENN BECK’S HAND For not pushing the nirther story. I love it. I hope his whole show turns into stealth Nirther callers flouncing on the air.

Holy shit...

Why isn't Fox News telling me the lies I really want to hear?

138 windsagio  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:38:07pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Per my theory 'bout Beck, its more about he thinks it'll get him in trouble or hurt his ratings, and thats what actually matters >>

139 Girth  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:39:00pm

I kinda want to make that call tomorrow morning...

140 Gus  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:40:55pm

Oh brother again. I just read Ann Althouse's take on the photo and she concocts a scenario from this which could be summarized as "Obama looks tired here, he won't run for reelection." Preceding that is some generalization about "this picture strongly says cool to people who love him, but it doesn't read that way to others." Oddly enough it's cool enough and I don't "love" Obama.

Anyway, having seen Althouse before at Blogginheads my impression of her is that she's a lot like the Muppet's Beaker only with less composure. I still find it hard to believe that she is a law professor.

141 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:41:08pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Whats creepy is reading the comments at the bottom of the thread. Those people are really consumed by all this. And now they think even Fox News is in on the conspiracy.

142 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:41:26pm

re: #138 windsagio

Per my theory 'bout Beck, its more about he thinks it'll get him in trouble or hurt his ratings, and thats what actually matters >>

Either way, he's smart enough to know better than to bring this up. I hope he lays into the Nirthers tomorrow. Come on Glen, tear 'em up! Give me a reason to root for you, instead of laugh at you.

143 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:43:14pm

re: #140 Gus 802

Oh brother again. I just read Ann Althouse's take on the photo and she concocts a scenario from this which could be summarized as "Obama looks tired here, he won't run for reelection." Preceding that is some generalization about "this picture strongly says cool to people who love him, but it doesn't read that way to others." Oddly enough it's cool enough and I don't "love" Obama.

Anyway, having seen Althouse before at Blogginheads my impression of her is that she's a lot like the Muppet's Beaker only with less composure. I still find it hard to believe that she is a law professor.

Speaking of Beaker:

Youtube Video
144 Girth  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:44:05pm

re: #141 Mich-again

Whats creepy is reading the comments at the bottom of the thread. Those people are really consumed by all this. And now they think even Fox News is in on the conspiracy.

Yeah one suggests that Beck and Hannity had to sign contracts which include clauses to not report on Obama's "ineligibility" to be President. This is funny shit.

145 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:54:37pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Come on Glen, tear 'em up! Give me a reason to root for you, instead of laugh at you.

Well that is one way to break up with a crazy girlfriend, but I don't see Beck going with that strategy.

146 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:59:35pm

re: #144 Girth
And new CT's that I hadn't even heard yet.

Bet you didn’t know the plane pecker bomber have already been to Texas and this contry afew times first.

Oh thats just beautiful..

147 mph  Mon, Jan 4, 2010 2:33:06pm

In defense of Professors Althouse and Reynolds -- there was no outrage on their part. The photo presented itself as the foundation of an interesting blog post-- and it got people talking -- as looking at photos often does get people talking... You don't have to agree with their conclusions to enjoy the speculation.

And say what you will, it was a strange press photo for the white house to release.

148 MPH  Mon, Jan 4, 2010 2:48:37pm

The cowardly Andrew Sullivan calling Prof. Reynolds a racist. Give me a break.
[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

149 S.D.  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 6:09:43am

...
...
One hopes their being satirical, but given their track record...

150 S'latch  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 7:15:34am

I recall that Ann Althouse voted for Obama. I think this type of over-analysis is a mistake that pundits of all stripes make.


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