Disaster Unfolds Slowly
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A family of dolphins swims desperately beneath the BP oil spill, in one heart-breaking photo out of many from The Big Picture at boston.com: Disaster unfolds slowly in the Gulf of Mexico.
391 comments
1 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 7:45:32pm |
Those poor dolphins, we’ll never get the Streaker flying at this rate….
| 2 |
jordash1212 Wed, May 12, 2010 7:46:08pm |
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
| 3 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 7:47:14pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
I think you misplaced your sarc tag, have a few extra from me….
/// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// ///
| 4 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 7:47:46pm |
I am irritated by the fact that there are (or seem to be) no contingency plans already designed to deal with such disasters.
Not only does this have a terribly negative impact on the environment, wildlife, industry and jobs, it is also a horrible waste of a valuable resource.
| 5 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 7:47:55pm |
Ack… I don’t like looking at that. I still have a problem with oily fowl. There’s some commercial that still shows those images from the Exxon spill.
| 6 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 7:48:11pm |
Looking at those pictures, what I see reminds me of chocolate milk and rainbows !
| 7 |
altermite Wed, May 12, 2010 7:48:35pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
Except this is one that he has a chance of hanging on BPs door, rather than being pinned squarely on him.
| 8 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 7:48:59pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
LOLWHUT.
Yes, Obama had known for several days in advance that this was coming.
/
o_O
| 9 |
bratwurst Wed, May 12, 2010 7:50:04pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
Doesn’t Obama have to get re-elected before he can REALLY have his Katrina? Just sayin.
| 10 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 7:50:46pm |
re: #7 altermite
Except this is one that he has a chance of hanging on BPs door, rather than being pinned squarely on him.
The Katrina comparison is laughable at best, but we know that already yes? I took #2 as sarcasm without the tags.
| 11 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 7:51:18pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
Only three major differences.
1. The effects will be much worse, over a much wider area, and much longer lasting.
2. President Obama did not have days of warning before the event.
3. It was not President Obama’s party that pushed for the drilling in the first place. Nope, the rigs were built during a period when the GOP controlled a lot more political territory.
That said, the GOP did not push for a hurricane and the Dems should never have caved on letting drilling happen.
However, All talk of finger waving is pointless at this time. What matters is getting it cleaned up as quickly as possible and sensible leadership realizing that we simply can not afford to be the thrall of big oil.
And think of the added benefit of putting the uncivilized parts of the ME in its place if the US and Europe develop green internal energy production.
| 12 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 7:52:32pm |
re: #10 marjoriemoon
The Katrina comparison is laughable at best, but we know that already yes? I took #2 as sarcasm without the tags.
Heh, when in doubt, use sarc tags.
;)
| 14 |
jordash1212 Wed, May 12, 2010 7:53:26pm |
Why don’t we set aside the finger pointing and blame and look at the devastation each event has caused? There’s no need to dispute total damage or the political ramifications and comparisons.
| 15 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 7:53:31pm |
re: #13 shiplord kirel
Picture of the year.
What does that say about what kind of year 2010 will be/is?
| 16 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 7:53:32pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
Oh geeze.
Boston.com has had the most excellent photos. Haiti earthquake was another.
| 17 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 7:54:05pm |
A disaster is…
en.wikipedia.org
This is truly a disaster.
| 18 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 7:54:16pm |
Ohh and for the record, weren’t the pundits on the right who are now calling it Obama’s Katrina the very same ones defending his incompetence at the time?
So were they lying then or are they complimenting Obama now? Because to hear them talk at the time, W. came through Katrina like a latter day Churchill facing the Germans.
| 19 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 7:55:08pm |
re: #14 jordash1212
Why don’t we set aside the finger pointing and blame and look at the devastation each event has caused? There’s no need to dispute total damage or the political ramifications and comparisons.
Provided that the political ramification is the serious and solemn understanding that we can not afford oil any more and we must switch to other means of energy production, yes.
| 20 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 7:55:41pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
And in one fell swoop you have opened the door for Obama and Bush bashing.
If I had one wish, right now I would wish it were possible for Obama to pick Bush as his running mate for 2012, and win in a landslide. One election like that, and this country might well be rid of it’s population of moonbats and wingnuts, and create an unprecedented economic boost for those post-wingers left to clean up the mess of ‘splody heads.
| 22 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 7:56:14pm |
re: #14 jordash1212
Why don’t we set aside the finger pointing and blame and look at the devastation each event has caused? There’s no need to dispute total damage or the political ramifications and comparisons.
Perhaps. However,
Katrina = Natural disaster.
Gulf Spill = Man made disaster.
| 23 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 7:56:48pm |
re: #20 Slumbering Behemoth
And in one fell swoop you have opened the door for Obama and Bush bashing.
If I had one wish, right now I would wish it were possible for Obama to pick Bush as his running mate for 2012, and win in a landslide. One election like that, and this country might well be rid of it’s population of moonbats and wingnuts, and create an unprecedented economic boost for those post-wingers left to clean up the mess of ‘splody heads.
I ain’t cleaning that up.
:P
| 24 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 7:57:08pm |
re: #14 jordash1212
Why don’t we set aside the finger pointing and blame and look at the devastation each event has caused? There’s no need to dispute total damage or the political ramifications and comparisons.
You’re right, but I find it a insulting to make the comparison. For what LVQ said, but more because people died in Katrina, some agonizing slow deaths, if you can imagine being trapped under your roof in the blazing heat. Also as a nation, we have more experience with hurricanes (Andrew for one) and other natural disasters in the last 25 years so while there were bound to be deaths in New Orleans, it could have been significantly minimized. That was the fault of local, state and federal government.
| 25 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 7:58:05pm |
re: #22 Varek Raith
Scratch that. Came off sounding waaayyy wrong.
:/
| 26 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 7:58:07pm |
re: #16 Stanley Sea
Oh geeze.
Boston.com has had the most excellent photos. Haiti earthquake was another.
Now, now. You can’t lay that on Obama. That was all due to a deal with Lucy.
| 27 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 7:58:56pm |
re: #14 jordash1212
Why don’t we set aside the finger pointing and blame and look at the devastation each event has caused? There’s no need to dispute total damage or the political ramifications and comparisons.
Well to do that you’d have to stop doing things like calling this Obama’s Katrina…
The way you did in post #2….
| 28 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 7:59:30pm |
re: #27 jamesfirecat
Well to do that you’d have to stop doing things like calling this Obama’s Katrina…
The way you did in post #2…
Frickin thread jack.
| 29 |
shai_au Wed, May 12, 2010 7:59:45pm |
I know that it’s horrible for the environment and everything, but some of these pictures have been spectacular.
Anyway, is there anything that Obama could have done to manage this better? Calling it his “Katrina” implies that there was mismanagement on the part of the government, but is that actually the case?
It’s a serious question. I’d actually like to know. How much control does the US government have over these waters?
| 30 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:00:03pm |
re: #14 jordash1212
Why don’t we set aside the finger pointing and blame and look at the devastation each event has caused? There’s no need to dispute total damage or the political ramifications and comparisons.
Good idea after you started the finger pointing with a line straight out of Hannity.
For the Record the Dems are not now and have not been for some time, the party of “drill here drill now” coupled with the party of relaxing regulations and environmental protections.
Right now is the time to not finger point and to clean up the mess as best we can.
IN a few months it will be the time to ail the GOP to the wall once and for all for their execrable environmental and scientific record and their long and well proven history of putting the needs of big oil and companies like Haliburton (oh yes, those guys are players in this fiasco too) ahead of the needs of America.
| 31 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:00:05pm |
| 32 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:00:22pm |
re: #26 Slumbering Behemoth
Now, now. You can’t lay that on Obama. That was all due to a deal with Lucy.
I thought it was conclusively proven that the earthquake in Hati was due to women dressing immodestly….
| 33 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:00:29pm |
re: #18 LudwigVanQuixote
Can’t blame the Feds for the failures that occurred at the state level.
/And that is as far as I intend to tread into this tired, dead horse of a subject.
| 34 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:01:54pm |
Something tells me we will be crying over this disaster for quite some time to come. What a drag!
| 35 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:01:55pm |
re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth
Can’t blame the Feds for the failures that occurred at the state level.
/And that is as far as I intend to tread into this tired, dead horse of a subject.
And you know what Katrina was a multi level failure. No doubt. I am commenting more on the insulting spin the pundits are putting on it because it assumes we have no memory at all.
| 36 |
jordash1212 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:02:02pm |
re: #27 jamesfirecat
You’re completely missing the point here and committing the thing that has ruined American politics: finding blame is not paramount, devastation is. The amount of destruction caused by Katrina will be equaled or surpassed by the destruction caused by this oil leak. Can you at least appreciate that before you go off and find the person responsible you wish to crucify?
| 37 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:02:48pm |
By the way, GOP… Kills dolphins and baby humans too for oil money.
| 38 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:03:58pm |
re: #36 jordash1212
You’re completely missing the point here and committing the thing that has ruined American politics: finding blame is not paramount, devastation is. The amount of destruction caused by Katrina will be equaled or surpassed by the destruction caused by this oil leak. Can you at least appreciate that before you go off and find the person responsible you wish to crucify?
You sir, were the first to name names.
Making no sense.
| 39 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:04:32pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
Actually… you are exactly right. Regardless of the actual blame, high profile disasters are always an opportunity to bash one’s opponents.
| 40 |
jordash1212 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:05:02pm |
re: #38 Stanley Sea
Can you possibly misconstrue my point even more? Comparing each presidency, both had a disaster. For Bush it was Katrina. For Obama it is this oil spill. Why do you need to add politics to that?
| 41 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:05:13pm |
re: #36 jordash1212
You’re completely missing the point here and committing the thing that has ruined American politics: finding blame is not paramount, devastation is. The amount of destruction caused by Katrina will be equaled or surpassed by the destruction caused by this oil leak. Can you at least appreciate that before you go off and find the person responsible you wish to crucify?
Why did you decide to start this thread off with “This is Obama’s Katrina” there by saying that Obama was evidently involved in some major bungling which is why there is such a thing as “Bush’s Katrina” to start with?
| 42 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:05:54pm |
re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote
By the way, GOP… Kills dolphins and baby humans too for oil money.
Shouldn’t we be blaming the Labour party for the oil spill?
| 43 |
jordash1212 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:06:21pm |
re: #41 jamesfirecat
Because Katrina happened during Bush’s presidency. This oil spill happened during Obama’s. My point is really that simple. No politics, just observable fact.
| 44 |
darthstar Wed, May 12, 2010 8:06:53pm |
re: #40 jordash1212
Can you possibly misconstrue my point even more? Comparing each presidency, both had a disaster. For Bush it was Katrina. For Obama it is this oil spill. Why do you need to add politics to that?
Bush completely mishandled his disaster. President Obama has been working on his disaster since day 1. Bush turned a national disaster into a national embarrassment. President Obama is doing all he can to avoid that.
| 45 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:06:56pm |
re: #40 jordash1212
Can you possibly misconstrue my point even more? Comparing each presidency, both had a disaster. For Bush it was Katrina. For Obama it is this oil spill. Why do you need to add politics to that?
Dude, Katrina wasn’t just a disaster.
It was a f*** up by the government.
You can’t compare this to Katrina without implying that Obama has screwed up on some level.
| 46 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:07:23pm |
re: #29 shai_au
I know that it’s horrible for the environment and everything, but some of these pictures have been spectacular.
Anyway, is there anything that Obama could have done to manage this better? Calling it his “Katrina” implies that there was mismanagement on the part of the government, but is that actually the case?
It’s a serious question. I’d actually like to know. How much control does the US government have overthese watersthe Oil God?
Fixed.
| 48 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 8:08:33pm |
re: #36 jordash1212
The amount of destruction caused by Katrina will be equaled or surpassed by the destruction caused by this oil leak.
You still haven’t given an explanation for why you called the oil spill Obama’s Katrina.
Do you care to do so or were you just being a dick and making a partisan jab at the President?
| 49 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 8:08:41pm |
re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist
I’m with you. Too sad.
| 50 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:08:59pm |
re: #7 altermite
Except this is one that he has a chance of hanging on BPs door, rather than being pinned squarely on him.
The true blame is irrelevant, partisan political motivations are not dependent on facts. The MSM helps by being superficial and lazy, but ultimately, it is we the voters who can’t be bothered to look beyond our biases and seek out the real cause problems.
| 51 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:09:20pm |
re: #36 jordash1212
You’re completely missing the point here and committing the thing that has ruined American politics: finding blame is not paramount, devastation is. The amount of destruction caused by Katrina will be equaled or surpassed by the destruction caused by this oil leak. Can you at least appreciate that before you go off and find the person responsible you wish to crucify?
The people to blame are those that have steadfastly kept us enthralled to oil for decades even when other technologies were developed. Both parties share blame in this. One party was bought and paid for though by the oil companies.
Lemme give you a hint who…
Again, we should not turn this into a political cheap shot.
However, it is not a cheap shot to point out that for decades the drumbeat of the GOP is that only smelly hippies are stupid enough to hug trees hurr hurr hurr. It is not a cheap shot to point out who pays their bills. It is not a cheap shot to point out the connections.
The result of this policy has been foreign wars, propping up of brutal and medieval regimes, environmental disaster after environmental disaster and a disproportionate voice in American politics from Texas. The Dems for their part have been passive and weak to fight against it. They have never lived up to their pledges to get us off of oil. They are part of the problem too, but this is squarely a GOP baby in terms of who is out there openly calling you a traitor to America if you don’t drill.
Enough is enough.
If we are lucky, this will catalyze Americans to realize that AGW or not, oil is a terrible thing to be involved with.
| 52 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:09:22pm |
re: #40 jordash1212
Can you possibly misconstrue my point even more? Comparing each presidency, both had a disaster. For Bush it was Katrina. For Obama it is this oil spill. Why do you need to add politics to that?
Because the federal government was, indeed, culpable for the aftermath of Katrina. I don’t know what the feds responsibility is to protect people and wildlife from oil spills, but clearly, it’s not high on the agenda. There’s lots of agencies, local, state and federal that deal with natural disasters.
| 53 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:10:03pm |
re: #49 Rightwingconspirator
I’m with you. Too sad.
RWC, the photos are spectacular though. Sad, but look!
| 54 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 8:10:04pm |
More evidence of incompetence.
Oil spill: BP had wrong diagram to close blowout preventer
In the days after an oil well spun out of control in the Gulf of Mexico, BP engineers tried to activate a huge piece of underwater safety equipment but failed because the device had been so altered that diagrams BP got from the equipment’s owner didn’t match the supposedly failsafe device’s configuration, congressional investigators said Wednesday.
| 55 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:10:47pm |
re: #43 jordash1212
Because Katrina happened during Bush’s presidency. This oil spill happened during Obama’s. My point is really that simple. No politics, just observable fact.
Yes that is true.
Now allow me to introduce you to something called “Context” people don’t keep talking Katrina because it was a nasty hurricane.
Hurricane Andrew was a nasty hurricane.
But there was no political fall out from it.
People didn’t call Katrina “Bush’s Andrew” because there was no obvious f*** up under Clinton when Andrew came ashore.
If you want to call this Obama’s Andrew you’d still be wrong because its foolish to compare a natural disaster to a man made one but you won’t be so offensively so.
| 56 |
jordash1212 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:11:02pm |
I can’t argue with you if you either do not read what I say or cannot find the value of it. So I’ll try to say this as clearly as I possibly can and will stop responding to people saying things like: Obama didn’t do anything to stop this crisis, but Bush did. Why? Because that just simply is not the point I’m trying to establish.
I’m merely pointing out that within each man’s presidency a natural disaster has now occurred. There really is no need to add politics here about who did what quicker or more efficiently or did something at all. Really, just don’t respond to me if you want to say Bush did more for Katrina than Obama did because I’m not arguing that.
| 57 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:12:04pm |
re: #52 marjoriemoon
Because the federal government was, indeed, culpable for the aftermath of Katrina. I don’t know what the feds responsibility is to protect people and wildlife from oil spills, but clearly, it’s not high on the agenda. There’s lots of agencies, local, state and federal that deal with natural disasters.
You will find that many of those protections were relaxed and the GOP pushed through a rush authorization for this rig in particular at the behest of BP.
This is for real.
Remember, in the GOP, regulations are only for hippies and tree huggers.
| 58 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:12:16pm |
re: #54 freetoken
More evidence of incompetence.
I also heard today that they pulled something up & the batteries inside were dead.
| 59 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:12:18pm |
re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist
The beach where my parents house is, got the edge of an oil spill, years ago. To this day, if the tides are right, black oil dirtied sand shows up. It’s been at least 30 years since the oil spilled. Theses are white sandy beaches, not sensitive habitat like the Louisiana swamps. Great incubators & hatcheries are threatened.
I wish I had a magic wand to stop the oil & clean it up, right now.
| 60 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:12:26pm |
re: #35 LudwigVanQuixote
And you know what Katrina was a multi level failure. No doubt. I am commenting more on the insulting spin the pundits are putting on it because it assumes we have no memory at all.
As it always was, as it always shall be. And yes, it damned insulting.
| 61 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:12:31pm |
re: #22 Varek Raith
Perhaps. However,
Katrina = Natural disaster.
Gulf Spill = Man made disaster.
I disagree, both had natural causes. Katrina had the huricain and the Gulf spill had an over-pressurised pocket of methane. Also, in both cases, it was the humans who put themselves in the zone of destruction.
Furthermore, it was humans who built and maintained the levies, and it was humans who failed to evacuate New Orleans.
| 62 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:12:57pm |
re: #56 jordash1212
I can’t argue with you if you either do not read what I say or cannot find the value of it. So I’ll try to say this as clearly as I possibly can and will stop responding to people saying things like: Obama didn’t do anything to stop this crisis, but Bush did. Why? Because that just simply is not the point I’m trying to establish.
I’m merely pointing out that within each man’s presidency a natural disaster has now occurred. There really is no need to add politics here about who did what quicker or more efficiently or did something at all. Really, just don’t respond to me if you want to say Bush did more for Katrina than Obama did because I’m not arguing that.
Call it Obama’s Andrew then. Because Hurricane Andrew was a nasty hurricane but there was no political fall out from it.
| 63 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:13:47pm |
re: #59 Floral Giraffe
The beach where my parents house is, got the edge of an oil spill, years ago. To this day, if the tides are right, black oil dirtied sand shows up. It’s been at least 30 years since the oil spilled. Theses are white sandy beaches, not sensitive habitat like the Louisiana swamps. Great incubators & hatcheries are threatened.
I wish I had a magic wand to stop the oil & clean it up, right now.
Yes, the effects will be catastrophic.
| 64 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:14:03pm |
re: #55 jamesfirecat
Yes that is true.
Now allow me to introduce you to something called “Context” people don’t keep talking Katrina because it was a nasty hurricane.
Hurricane Andrew was a nasty hurricane.
But there was no political fall out from it.
People didn’t call Katrina “Bush’s Andrew” because there was no obvious f*** up under Clinton when Andrew came ashore.
If you want to call this Obama’s Andrew you’d still be wrong because its foolish to compare a natural disaster to a man made one but you won’t be so offensively so.
The reason we don’t reference Andrew in that way is because there hadn’t been a major hurricane to hit the US in some 25 years, far from memory. But there was a lot of fallout from it, mostly on the builders who let the building codes lapse in the 80’s.
But anyway, we learned a great deal about safety and preparation from Andrew, most of which was ignored when Katrina hit the gulf states.
| 65 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:14:03pm |
re: #61 Bagua
I disagree, both had natural causes. Katrina had the huricain and the Gulf spill had an over-pressurised pocket of methane. Also, in both cases, it was the humans who put themselves in the zone of destruction.
Furthermore, it was humans who built and maintained the levies, and it was humans who failed to evacuate New Orleans.
Yes because it’s so much easier to evacuate a major American city than to build a FREAKING CUT OFF PUMP/VALVE!
| 66 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:14:03pm |
re: #10 marjoriemoon
The Katrina comparison is laughable at best, but we know that already yes? I took #2 as sarcasm without the tags.
Bush was not responsible for Katrina.
Obama is not responsible for this.
In both cases, the feds have done as much as they possibly could have, within as quick a time frame as possible.
| 67 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:14:05pm |
re: #54 freetoken
More evidence of incompetence.
I haven’t read the book but I think the book The Checklist Manifesto: How to Get Things Right should be on more peoples’ reading lists.
| 69 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:15:26pm |
re: #61 Bagua
I disagree, both had natural causes. Katrina had the huricain and the Gulf spill had an over-pressurised pocket of methane. Also, in both cases, it was the humans who put themselves in the zone of destruction.
Furthermore, it was humans who built and maintained the levies, and it was humans who failed to evacuate New Orleans.
And it was Bush who killed the levee project that Clinton started during the last years of his presidency.
| 70 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:15:49pm |
re: #68 jordash1212
You amaze me.
Well that makes two of us when you think you can say that this is “Obama’s Katrina” and not mean anything political by it.
| 71 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:16:04pm |
re: #66 reine.de.tout
I wish I had more than one upding for your post.
Hi Reine! Hope you & the Roi are well!
| 72 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:16:07pm |
re: #29 shai_au
I know that it’s horrible for the environment and everything, but some of these pictures have been spectacular.
Anyway, is there anything that Obama could have done to manage this better? Calling it his “Katrina” implies that there was mismanagement on the part of the government, but is that actually the case?
It’s a serious question. I’d actually like to know. How much control does the US government have over these waters?
All drilling plans (and exceptions) have to be approved by MMS, part of the federal Dept of the Interior.
However, to say that Obama in any way had a hand in this is just idiotic.
Same idiocy used by those who blame Katrina on Bush.
| 73 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:16:27pm |
re: #66 reine.de.tout
Bush was not responsible for Katrina.
Obama is not responsible for this.In both cases, the feds have done as much as they possibly could have, within as quick a time frame as possible.
I didn’t say Bush was responsible for Katrina, but his administration was partly responsible for the aftermath. Homeland Security stopped food and water getting into the gulf for weeks.
| 74 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:16:48pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
Ah yes. Populist sound bytes. Problem is a) Katrina wasn’t President Bush’s — read the official report when you get a chance and b) see “a” and think about how that will relate to President Obama.
| 76 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:17:18pm |
re: #61 Bagua
See my #25.
It’s an issue I shouldn’t have delved into.
| 78 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 12, 2010 8:17:25pm |
re: #59 Floral Giraffe
The beach where my parents house is, got the edge of an oil spill, years ago. To this day, if the tides are right, black oil dirtied sand shows up. It’s been at least 30 years since the oil spilled. Theses are white sandy beaches, not sensitive habitat like the Louisiana swamps. Great incubators & hatcheries are threatened.
I wish I had a magic wand to stop the oil & clean it up, right now.
The spill off Santa Barbara happened in 1969. A decade later, as a little kid, I just figured that having to take tar off the bottoms of your feet with baby oil was a regular after-beach thing.
This crap is hard as hell to clean up, and it hurts everything it touches.
| 79 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:18:00pm |
re: #69 marjoriemoon
And it was Bush who killed the levee project that Clinton started during the last years of his presidency.
Marjorie - the Katrina devastation was not Bush’s fault.
Not by a long shot. I’m amazed at the folks who still try to blame Bush.
Neither is this oil spill Obama’s fault.
| 80 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, May 12, 2010 8:18:19pm |
re: #72 reine.de.tout
Love ya, Toots. I’m prayin’ hard for y’all.
| 82 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:19:05pm |
re: #54 freetoken
More evidence of incompetence.
Wow, I have been chuntering on about the Cameron TL BOP since this began, but this goes way beyond a mere defect, this is buffoonery.
| 83 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:19:22pm |
re: #77 Killgore Trout
And turtles, and oysters, and crabs, and shrimp, and…….
| 84 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 12, 2010 8:20:02pm |
My mother is opposed to the idea of making pro-oil politicians scrub pelicans. She says the pelicans deserve to be cleaned off by nice people who care about them and aren’t angling for a photo op.
| 85 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:20:14pm |
Lewis Black just destroyed the raving freakazoid nut sandwich on The Daily Show.
“Glenn Beck has Nazi Tourette’s!”
It was beautiful.
| 86 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:20:36pm |
re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist
Mr. Clean with ammonia is the best. We keep it in the garage, with rags.
I bet lighter fluid would work better, but the family wants me to keep away from it!
/sorta
| 87 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:20:48pm |
re: #82 Bagua
Wow, I have been chuntering on about the Cameron TL BOP since this began, but this goes way beyond a mere defect, this is buffoonery.
Except buffoonery has comedic and harmless results like Larry getting slapped in this face, or Moe poked in the eye, this is f***ing up one of our nations major bodies of water….
| 88 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:20:59pm |
re: #79 reine.de.tout
Marjorie - the Katrina devastation was not Bush’s fault.
Not by a long shot. I’m amazed at the folks who still try to blame Bush.Neither is this oil spill Obama’s fault.
I blame Bush, the mayor and the governor for not doing a better job, most of which should be done before the storm actually hits.
| 89 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:21:06pm |
re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth
As it always was, as it always shall be. And yes, it damned insulting.
Sadly though, it’s not an insult without merit. The pundits exploit the average person’s short memory, and continue to dredge up the same tired conspiracy talking points that were popular the last time “the other” was in the Oval Office, and the moonbat and wingnut reactionaries eat it up like it was brand new pudding.
| 90 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:21:49pm |
re: #85 JasonA
Lewis Black just destroyed the raving freakazoid nut sandwich on The Daily Show.
“Glenn Beck has Nazi Tourette’s!”
It was beautiful.
I still liked “Glenn Beck uses more Nazi Footage, THAN THE HISTORY CHANNEL!”
| 91 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:22:12pm |
re: #73 marjoriemoon
I didn’t say Bush was responsible for Katrina, but his administration was partly responsible for the aftermath. Homeland Security stopped food and water getting into the gulf for weeks.
Marjorie -
Katrina aftermath was strictly the problem and fault of the state of Louisiana and assorted local officials. Not Bush.
I cannot believe I can sit here and tell people what I saw and observed with my own eyes, and what I personally lived through here, and people WILL not believe me.
Katrina was NOT Bush’s fault, nor its aftermath, any more than this inicident and its aftermath are Obama’s fault.
| 92 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:23:31pm |
re: #90 jamesfirecat
I still liked “Glenn Beck uses more Nazi Footage, THAN THE HISTORY CHANNEL!”
The balls that man has to criticize people about Nazi comparisons… how does he walk with those?
| 93 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:24:05pm |
re: #81 MandyManners
Quite true, but what irritates the hell out of me is the seeming lack of a contingency plan for this type of rig disaster. How long have modern civilizations been using offshore drilling platforms?
| 94 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:24:15pm |
re: #54 freetoken
More evidence of incompetence.
Note that the wrong diagram issue is small beer compared to the other detail in that article. They had replaced the bore ram on the BOP with a test ram and did not replace it with the real thing!
“When they investigated why their attempts failed to activate the bore ram,” Stupak said of BP engineers, “they learned that the device had been modified. A useless test ram _ not the variable bore ram _ had been connected to the socket that was supposed to activate the variable bore ram.”
I’ve been scratching my head for days as to why they were unable to manually close it with the submersible robots and had thought it was due to damage from the blowout.
They left a test ram installed? Good grief.
| 95 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:24:33pm |
re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote
You will find that many of those protections were relaxed and the GOP pushed through a rush authorization for this rig in particular at the behest of BP.
This is for real.
Remember, in the GOP, regulations are only for hippies and tree huggers.
What?
The agency that approves these plans is now under the Obama administration.
Either way, it’s silly to blame this on the GOP or the Dems.
| 96 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:24:50pm |
re: #83 Floral Giraffe
And turtles, and oysters, and crabs, and shrimp, and…
…and everyone who depends on them for a living, and yet more photosynthesizers killed so less CO2 gets cleared leading to a bit more warming and faster ocean anoxia.
But other than that, this is a walk in the park.
I promise the SUVs it would have fueled are worth it and Haliburton needs love more than some hippie. And no I will not give the GOP a break on this. All those drill heads get to reap what they have sewn. It is not just the drilling even, it is the whole mentality of letting corporations get away with murder on the regulatory end.
Again, this rig had its authorization rushed through by the GOP. PArt f the express authorization was letting BP do environmental impact and safety studies “later.” I will find the links, but I heard the testimony to this effect on CSPAN last night.
| 97 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:25:01pm |
re: #87 jamesfirecat
Except buffoonery has comedic and harmless results like Larry getting slapped in this face, or Moe poked in the eye, this is f***ing up one of our nations major bodies of water…
Yea, buffoonery is too soft a word, this is criminal negligence.
| 98 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:25:13pm |
re: #91 reine.de.tout
I dunno. Seems to me the Right is perfectly willing to let Katrina hang around Bush’s neck if it gives them an attack of opportunity on Obama.
| 99 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:25:41pm |
re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist
My mother is opposed to the idea of making pro-oil politicians scrub pelicans. She says the pelicans deserve to be cleaned off by nice people who care about them and aren’t angling for a photo op.
Which is why pro oil politicians should be forced to swim in the slick for at least 30 minutes.
| 100 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, May 12, 2010 8:25:49pm |
re: #91 reine.de.tout
I still blame dumb asses who were too stupid to get out of the way.
I am waaay more forgiving of the poor animals that will be hurt by this accident.
Have people forgotten what the words “accident” and “forces of nature” mean?
Poor little fishies.
| 103 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:26:35pm |
re: #99 LudwigVanQuixote
Which is why pro oil politicians should be forced to swim in the slick for at least 30 minutes.
But they might drow…
ohhh…
| 105 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:26:54pm |
re: #94 Bagua
I’ve been scratching my head for days as to why they were unable to manually close it with the submersible robots and had thought it was due to damage from the blowout.
They left a test ram installed? Good grief.
| 106 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:27:07pm |
re: #95 reine.de.tout
What?
The agency that approves these plans is now under the Obama administration.Either way, it’s silly to blame this on the GOP or the Dems.
This rig is a little older than that. I honestly heard about this on CSPAN last night.
| 107 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:27:15pm |
re: #100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I still blame dumb asses who were too stupid to get out of the way.
I am waaay more forgiving of the poor animals that will be hurt by this accident.
Have people forgotten what the words “accident” and “forces of nature” mean?
Poor little fishies.
Do you know - one animal organization got their act together and got a LOT of animals out of NOLA before the storm. People who stayed kept their pets with them, but there was a bigger effort to evacuate animals than there was humans. Squarely the fault of state and city officials.
| 108 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:27:16pm |
re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote
You will find that many of those protections were relaxed and the GOP pushed through a rush authorization for this rig in particular at the behest of BP.
This is for real.
Remember, in the GOP, regulations are only for hippies and tree huggers.
I’m sorry but you appear to be way off base with this blame the ebil GOP meme.
| 109 |
prairiefire Wed, May 12, 2010 8:27:56pm |
re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth
NPR had an excellent interview yesterday afternoon. The relief items (booms) in case of a spill that where supposed to be there where not there. I will try to find a link.
| 111 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:28:07pm |
re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote
This rig is a little older than that. I honestly heard about this on CSPAN last night.
The rig was built in 2000.
However, it has not been drilling this well since 2000.
This began very recently. It only takes 2 or 3 months to drill a well.
| 112 |
avanti Wed, May 12, 2010 8:28:20pm |
Kagan, anti-miltary ?
“Capt. Kyle Scherer, 25, who graduated from the law school last year and is now a military intelligence officer with the Army in Afghanistan, said by phone last month from Kabul that Ms. Kagan always supported students interested in the military. When recruiters came on campus, Ms. Kagan would send out e-mail messages, saying, in effect, “we distinguish between those who serve their country and the discriminatory policy under which they serve.”
Last year, when he was promoted from first lieutenant to captain in the Massachusetts Army National Guard, he invited her to the ceremony and gave her the honor of pinning his captain’s bars on his shoulder.”
Her West Point speech:
“On giving the speech:
I don’t accept many outside speaking invitations; this may be the only talk of this kind that I’ll give this year. I accepted this invitation primarily to thank all of you senior cadets — and to wish you godspeed as you go forward to serve your country and your fellow citizens in the greatest and most profound way possible.
On Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell:
I have been grieved in recent years to find your world and mine, the U.S. military and U.S. law schools, at odds indeed, facing each other in court - on one issue. That issue is the military’s don’t-ask don’t-tell policy. Law schools, including mine, believe that employment opportunities should extend to all their students, regardless of their race or sex or sexual orientation. And I personally believe that the exclusion of gays and lesbians from the military is both unjust and unwise. I wish devoutly that these Americans too could join this noblest of all professions and serve their country in this most important of all ways.”
| 113 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:28:21pm |
re: #91 reine.de.tout
Marjorie -
Katrina aftermath was strictly the problem and fault of the state of Louisiana and assorted local officials. Not Bush.I cannot believe I can sit here and tell people what I saw and observed with my own eyes, and what I personally lived through here, and people WILL not believe me.
Katrina was NOT Bush’s fault, nor its aftermath, any more than this inicident and its aftermath are Obama’s fault.
The federal government usually steps in after the storm. Before the storm it’s state and local. I am also hurricane survivor, Andrew, Frances, Katrina and Wilma.
Bush also did not include the Louisiana coast when he declared a state of emergency which I believe was Brownie’s fault, FEMA a federal agency (which had been significantly messed up by Bush).
| 114 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:28:32pm |
re: #107 reine.de.tout
Do you know - one animal organization got their act together and got a LOT of animals out of NOLA before the storm. People who stayed kept their pets with them, but there was a bigger effort to evacuate animals than there was humans. Squarely the fault of state and city officials.
I blame the fact that animals are so much cuter then we are.
| 115 |
Querent Wed, May 12, 2010 8:28:34pm |
re: #109 prairiefire
NPR had an excellent interview yesterday afternoon. The relief items (booms) in case of a spill that where supposed to be there where not there. I will try to find a link.
hmm… sounds like a rapidly enlarging clusterboink to me…
| 116 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:28:39pm |
re: #102 MandyManners
Long enough to have developed a plan or two of some kind, I think.
| 117 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:29:15pm |
re: #101 MandyManners
My desire to keep my account at LGF restrains me from telling you what I think about your assertion.
My assertion that food and water wasn’t held back?
| 118 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:29:16pm |
re: #111 reine.de.tout
The rig was built in 2000.
However, it has not been drilling this well since 2000.
This began very recently. It only takes 2 or 3 months to drill a well.
Also, LVQ - this wasn’t the fault of the rig; the rig was leased to BP for this project (and perhaps additional ones later). The drilling was being done according to BP’s drilling plan. The rig is simply the machinery being used
| 119 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 8:29:35pm |
re: #94 Bagua
There’s a real case of engineering malpractice emerging from all of this.
Yet The Sarah says she trust the oil industry, so I guess that settles it.
| 121 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, May 12, 2010 8:30:18pm |
I am going to make myself not awake.
Un-point your fingers, kiddies… think about what you can do to help.
Goodnight.
| 122 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:30:42pm |
re: #109 prairiefire
I don’t have a link, I watched this on the news last night. The Coast Guard had done a drill some time back, and determined the booms to be inadequate and outdated.
| 123 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:30:57pm |
re: #121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I am going to make myself not awake.
Un-point your fingers, kiddies… think about what you can do to help.
Goodnight.
*Points finger at FBV, screams*
| 124 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:31:02pm |
re: #114 jamesfirecat
I blame the fact that animals are so much cuter then we are.
Speak for yourself, Bubba.
///
| 127 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:31:49pm |
Oh for crying out loud. Now we have to go through this Bush and Katrina BS all over again.
Thanks a lot jordash1212.
| 128 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:32:30pm |
re: #127 Gus 802
Oh for crying out loud. Now we have to go through this Bush and Katrina BS all over again.
Thanks a lot jordash1212.
Oh, let’s argue the lead up to the Iraq War!!!!
/
9_9
| 129 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:32:36pm |
re: #127 Gus 802
Oh for crying out loud. Now we have to go through this Bush and Katrina BS all over again.
Thanks a lot jordash1212.
I say “thanks a lot, BP,” but what do I know?
| 130 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:32:38pm |
re: #94 Bagua
I’ve been scratching my head for days as to why they were unable to manually close it with the submersible robots and had thought it was due to damage from the blowout.
They left a test ram installed? Good grief.
Oh dear God. I thought Transocean was better than this. Seriously, they used to be one of the top ocean drilling companies in the world. What the hell happened?
| 131 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:32:40pm |
re: #121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I am going to make myself not awake.
Un-point your fingers, kiddies… think about what you can do to help.
Goodnight.
C-A-K-E…P-I-E…
F-A-T…
You are now asleep!
| 132 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:32:42pm |
re: #127 Gus 802
Oh for crying out loud. Now we have to go through this Bush and Katrina BS all over again.
Thanks a lot jordash1212.
Exactly. Thread jack.
Look at the photos that Charles posted (via link)
| 133 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:32:49pm |
re: #120 MandyManners
Link? (And, no. I don’t mean one to TPM.)
It’s in Brown’s testimony before Congress.
| 134 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:33:30pm |
re: #130 Dante41
Oh dear God. I thought Transocean was better than this. Seriously, they used to be one of the top ocean drilling companies in the world. What the hell happened?
Bush got elected!
///
| 136 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:34:09pm |
re: #113 marjoriemoon
The federal government usually steps in after the storm. Before the storm it’s state and local. I am also hurricane survivor, Andrew, Frances, Katrina and Wilma.
Bush also did not include the Louisiana coast when he declared a state of emergency which I believe was Brownie’s fault, FEMA a federal agency (which had been significantly messed up by Bush).
The federal government did step in.
Blanco did not want to take the steps to ask the feds for help; Mary Landrieu was instrumental in encouraging Blanco not to do so, because she didn’t want a DEM governor asking a REP President for help. This, of course, was never on the news.
sheesh.
But I will back off. I was here, I saw what happened first hand, I worked 3 floors below the governor’s office and had daily contact with them throughout the entire event, not to mention my own personal experience sitting in my house watching my trees get pulled out of the ground and my roof tiles fly across the street, but you, in Florida, of course, know more than I could possibly know.
| 137 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:34:11pm |
re: #122 Slumbering Behemoth
I don’t have a link, I watched this on the news last night. The Coast Guard had done a drill some time back, and determined the booms to be inadequate and outdated.
And to be fair, they did try to use other booms to contain the spill. A storm blowing through the Gulf did about what you’d expect for their effectiveness.
| 138 |
webevintage Wed, May 12, 2010 8:34:15pm |
Listen, I’m a total Obama Kool Aid drinker, but I do think this is partly his administration’ fault.
Not his “Katrina”…that is just silly to compare anything that happens with the current administration with the previous one.
But “mistakes were made”.
It could be due to laziness or lack of over site or left over regulators from the previous administration or a corrupt regulator.
| 139 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, May 12, 2010 8:34:24pm |
re: #111 reine.de.tout
The rig was built in 2000.
However, it has not been drilling this well since 2000.
This began very recently. It only takes 2 or 3 months to drill a well.
Fair enough and the impact studies and the emergency safety regulations were relaxed when the GOP gave BP an express authorization.
OK?
It should be pretty obvious that they had no clue how to deal with a bad accident like this and no real contingency plan in place. There is a major part that falls on the GOP.
And don’t forget the GOP making certain to limit the liability of oil companies in these situations to $75 million. After all, we can’t have liability being a disincentive to free enterprise if it will cause the oil companies to bleed money by being safe.
As to the Dems caving on drilling, I do not and will not forgive them either.
They too suck. If we gave a damn we would shut down the whole damn thing as quickly as we could phase it out. However, in light of all the drill baby drill, drill here, drill now, drill me baby drill me talk from the GOP… coupled with all of the BS about hating environmentalists, that should be quite sufficient for seriously giving it to the GOP as hard and as strong as possible. Trust me, they need a good drilling.
| 140 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:34:31pm |
| 141 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:35:10pm |
re: #132 Stanley Sea
Exactly. Thread jack.
Look at the photos that Charles posted (via link)
I did. It’s a terrible thing that happened there. The 30th photo of the bird struggling against the ship is hard to look at.
Right now I’m hoping that the “top hat” device will work and slow down the oil being released.
| 142 |
oklahoma Wed, May 12, 2010 8:35:26pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
That would require a hysterical press blaming Obama for the spill and lack of reaction to it. Not going to happen.
| 143 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:35:28pm |
re: #73 marjoriemoon
I didn’t say Bush was responsible for Katrina, but his administration was partly responsible for the aftermath. Homeland Security stopped food and water getting into the gulf for weeks.
That is absolutely baloney, they were “staging” at a shopping mall less than a mile from my house the SUPPLIES WERE THERE, the feds got bad directions and instructions from the STATE.
| 145 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:35:50pm |
The whole purpose of FEMA, a federal agency, is to handle natural disasters, hurricanes, tornados, floods, etc. and it barely functioned in Katrina.
| 146 |
Big Steve Wed, May 12, 2010 8:36:03pm |
re: #118 reine.de.tout
Also, LVQ - this wasn’t the fault of the rig; the rig was leased to BP for this project (and perhaps additional ones later). The drilling was being done according to BP’s drilling plan. The rig is simply the machinery being used
Sorry but it absolutely positively does not work this way in GOM drilling. I work in this field. BP owned the lease but they hired Trans Ocean to drill the site. These are shared risk situations. Trans Ocean is a respectable company with their own technology. While drilling they are entirely responsible for the operations. This is similar to if you hired a contractor to build an addition to your house. You expect the contractor to build to the specifications. If during building your contractor set fire to their equipment by accident and this fire burned down your neighbors house, trust me the contractor is liable.
| 147 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:36:12pm |
re: #118 reine.de.tout
Also, LVQ - this wasn’t the fault of the rig; the rig was leased to BP for this project (and perhaps additional ones later). The drilling was being done according to BP’s drilling plan. The rig is simply the machinery being used
The Rig, and the BOP are front line current technology. In fact, state of the art. They were pushing the envelope in deep water and that was the best equipment available. Somebody(s) made a dreadful error(s), and at the worst possible time on the worst possible hole.
Yes, the employers are ultimately responsible as legal entities, but the men who screwed up did the actual deed, and we have no way of knowing if they were Republicans, or Democrats, or even voters.
| 148 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:36:30pm |
re: #135 MandyManners
Got a link to the actual testimony?
I haven’t read through that in awhile. I’d have to find it again, and people are busy being pissed at me at the moment.
| 149 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:37:03pm |
re: #147 Bagua
I wish Red Adaire were still with us to help solve this.
RIP, REd.
| 150 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:37:41pm |
re: #136 reine.de.tout
The federal government did step in.
Blanco did not want to take the steps to ask the feds for help; Mary Landrieu was instrumental in encouraging Blanco not to do so, because she didn’t want a DEM governor asking a REP President for help. This, of course, was never on the news.sheesh.
But I will back off. I was here, I saw what happened first hand, I worked 3 floors below the governor’s office and had daily contact with them throughout the entire event, not to mention my own personal experience sitting in my house watching my trees get pulled out of the ground and my roof tiles fly across the street, but you, in Florida, of course, know more than I could possibly know.
No need to get nasty about it. I already said, multiple times, that I blame your governor and the mayor of N.O.
| 151 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:37:42pm |
re: #139 LudwigVanQuixote
Fair enough and the impact studies and the emergency safety regulations were relaxed when the GOP gave BP an express authorization.
OK?
It should be pretty obvious that they had no clue how to deal with a bad accident like this and no real contingency plan in place. There is a major part that falls on the GOP.
And don’t forget the GOP making certain to limit the liability of oil companies in these situations to $75 million. After all, we can’t have liability being a disincentive to free enterprise if it will cause the oil companies to bleed money by being safe.
As to the Dems caving on drilling, I do not and will not forgive them either.
They too suck. If we gave a damn we would shut down the whole damn thing as quickly as we could phase it out. However, in light of all the drill baby drill, drill here, drill now, drill me baby drill me talk from the GOP… coupled with all of the BS about hating environmentalists, that should be quite sufficient for seriously giving it to the GOP as hard and as strong as possible. Trust me, they need a good drilling.
I am in no way trying to absolve BP. I know exactly what they did, and why they did it, and I also know they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that this was risky and would not work. They did what they did to try to save a few days of time when moving this well into production after it was drilled.
But to say this was the GOP’s fault, or the Dems’ fault, is sheer unadulterated lunacy
It was BP’s fault.
Period.
| 153 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:37:52pm |
re: #111 reine.de.tout
The rig was built in 2000.
However, it has not been drilling this well since 2000.
This began very recently. It only takes 2 or 3 months to drill a well.
And that’s another thing. The Deepwater Horizon held the record for the deepest oil well ever drilled until it sank. It should have been the best in Transocean’s fleet.
This is along the lines of the Andrea Doria sinking for a situation comparison.
| 154 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:37:53pm |
re: #148 marjoriemoon
I haven’t read through that in awhile. I’d have to find it again, and people are busy being pissed at me at the moment.
The verbatim testimony is in your NYT link. Don’t go further.
| 155 |
teleskiguy Wed, May 12, 2010 8:37:53pm |
re: #2 jordash1212
This will be Pres. Obama’s Hurricane Katrina.
I resent this comment. LGF is waaay beyond platitudes and sloganeering. And I’ve read your comments scrolling down. You’re not contributing anything to the discussion, you’re just jacking the thread jackass!
Keep watching FOX and listening to el Rushbo dunce! But please, keep the fucking GOP sound-byte talking points away from this fine website.
| 156 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:39:02pm |
re: #150 marjoriemoon
No need to get nasty about it. I already said, multiple times, that I blame your governor and the mayor of N.O.
I’m not getting nasty.
I am sick and tired of hearing how BUSH failed Louisiana.
When no such thing happened.
And I will have people who were never here telling me, I guess, that I’m lying or stupid or whatever, when I describe what REALLY happened, as I saw and observed, NOT as I read in some news report.
| 157 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:39:19pm |
re: #125 MandyManners
In my opinion, yes. For me this is not about under which POTUS’s watch this happened, but about an industry that has failed to properly plan for a potential catastrophe despite the fact that these things have been around for over one hundred years*.
| 158 |
prairiefire Wed, May 12, 2010 8:39:21pm |
OK, looked over the NPR website and could not find the show. Some lady interviewing a British guy in the afternoon.
Thanks for the lizard info on the booms.
| 159 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:39:36pm |
re: #149 Floral Giraffe
I wish Red Adaire were still with us to help solve this.
RIP, REd.
Not to besmirch Red’s skills, but this isn’t up his alley. A underwater accident is a bit different from an out of control wellhead on the surface.
| 160 |
What, me worry? Wed, May 12, 2010 8:39:40pm |
re: #152 MandyManners
It’s functioning well in the states that have had destructive floods.
Why?
Katrina was the mother of all natural disasters, as you remember, but FEMA did what it was built to do prior to Brown’s appointment. Because it was headed by people who actually had emergency experience.
| 161 |
Big Steve Wed, May 12, 2010 8:41:04pm |
re: #151 reine.de.tout
I am in no way trying to absolve BP. I know exactly what they did, and why they did it, and I also know they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that this was risky and would not work. They did what they did to try to save a few days of time when moving this well into production after it was drilled.
But to say this was the GOP’s fault, or the Dems’ fault, is sheer unadulterated lunacy
It was BP’s fault.
Period.
I repeat NO IT IS NOT…….the company hired to do the drilling accepts the liability.
| 163 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:41:08pm |
re: #159 Dante41
Not to besmirch Red’s skills, but this isn’t up his alley. A underwater accident is a bit different from an out of control wellhead on the surface.
Gotta use all of the good minds, that understand things like this to solve them.
Blown well, is a blown well. BP doesn’t exactly know how to solve this either.
| 164 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:41:23pm |
re: #152 MandyManners
It’s functioning well in the states that have had destructive floods.
Why?
Bush the Younger has been deposed?
/
| 165 |
prairiefire Wed, May 12, 2010 8:41:24pm |
I’m going to call Cameron and Clegg “the twins.”
Night, lizards.
| 166 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:41:47pm |
re: #130 Dante41
Oh dear God. I thought Transocean was better than this. Seriously, they used to be one of the top ocean drilling companies in the world. What the hell happened?
They still are. A dreadful mistake was likely made by humans working for them, or BP, or Haliburton. It could have been a technician, a manager, an engineer… or a number of mistakes by a combination of men and machinery from one or more companies. Too soon to tell.
| 167 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:42:13pm |
re: #165 prairiefire
I’m going to call Cameron and Clegg “the twins.”
Night, lizards.
Daily show already beat you to it, they said the two of them looked like the “before and after shots of a weight loss ad.”
| 168 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:42:22pm |
re: #147 Bagua
The Rig, and the BOP are front line current technology. In fact, state of the art. They were pushing the envelope in deep water and that was the best equipment available. Somebody(s) made a dreadful error(s), and at the worst possible time on the worst possible hole.
Yes, the employers are ultimately responsible as legal entities, but the men who screwed up did the actual deed, and we have no way of knowing if they were Republicans, or Democrats, or even voters.
eggs-zacktly.
| 169 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 8:42:53pm |
re: #161 Big Steve
They did what they did to try to save a few days of time when moving this well into production after it was drilled.
This well wasn’t scheduled to go into production and was being placed in reserve.
| 170 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:43:05pm |
Corporal Clegg
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 12, 2010 8:43:16pm |
re: #128 Varek Raith
Oh, let’s argue the lead up to the Iraq War!!!
/
9_9
Sanctions! WMDs! Cheney saying they’d throw roses at us! Yellowcake! Saddam! Mass graves! Resolution 1441! Hans Blix! Democracy! Chemical weapons!
OK, I’m done. Someone else go.
| 172 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:43:25pm |
re: #161 Big Steve
I repeat NO IT IS NOT…the company hired to do the drilling accepts the liability.
The company hired to do the drilling does the drilling according to the drilling company’s plan - in this case, BP.
BP made the decisions.
| 173 |
Mr Pancakes Wed, May 12, 2010 8:43:33pm |
re: #149 Floral Giraffe
I wish Red Adaire were still with us to help solve this.
RIP, REd.
Red Adair was a pro at putting out land based rig fires…….
Plugging a hole a mile deep in the ocean …… I dunno.
| 174 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:44:00pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
Sanctions! WMDs! Cheney saying they’d throw roses at us! Yellowcake! Saddam! Mass graves! Resolution 1441! Hans Blix! Democracy! Chemical weapons!
OK, I’m done. Someone else go.
Ah, the memories.
.
.
.
.
Alright, enough of that.
:)
| 175 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:44:02pm |
re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist
Sanctions! WMDs! Cheney saying they’d throw roses at us! Yellowcake! Saddam! Mass graves! Resolution 1441! Hans Blix! Democracy! Chemical weapons!
OK, I’m done. Someone else go.
Remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident!111!
No wait. Too far back.
/
| 176 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:44:09pm |
re: #147 Bagua
Yes, the employers are ultimately responsible as legal entities, but the men who screwed up did the actual deed, and we have no way of knowing if they were Republicans, or Democrats, or even voters.
I doubt those fellas can foot the bill so I’ll settle for blaming BP and Transocean. :)
| 177 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:44:50pm |
re: #94 Bagua
I’ve been scratching my head for days as to why they were unable to manually close it with the submersible robots and had thought it was due to damage from the blowout.
They left a test ram installed? Good grief.
That modification was done two years ago - at BP’s request.
| 178 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:44:57pm |
| 179 |
teleskiguy Wed, May 12, 2010 8:46:05pm |
theonion.com
Hey, at least the wildlife will benefit from increased viscosity.
| 180 |
Big Steve Wed, May 12, 2010 8:46:25pm |
re: #172 reine.de.tout
It does not work this way. I am in this business. There is no such thing as a “drilling plan”. This was stubbing in a new well on an existing lease that had been drilled before. Doing this is standard technology which is why BP brings in a subcontractor.
| 181 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:46:38pm |
re: #177 reine.de.tout
That modification was done two years ago - at BP’s request.
Again, I thought Transocean was better than this. Of all the companies that would forget that a test ram was installed, I would have never guessed them.
| 182 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:47:28pm |
re: #175 Gus 802
Remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident!111!
No wait. Too far back.
/
Remember Sernpidal!!!
Whoa, wrong galaxy.
| 183 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:47:50pm |
re: #177 reine.de.tout
That modification was done two years ago - at BP’s request.
Surely they did not intentionally leave non-functional test rams in place?
| 184 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:48:09pm |
re: #173 Mr Pancakes
Red Adair was a pro at putting out land based rig fires…
Plugging a hole a mile deep in the ocean … I dunno.
Concept of plugging a hole, is plugging a hole.
The man was an artist. He’d keep trying until something worked.
| 185 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:48:42pm |
From NOLA
The failed blowout preventer on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig had a hydraulic leak and a dead battery in one of its control pods, and testing in the hours before an April 20 explosion revealed that pressure in the well was dangerously out of whack, a House committee investigating the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico said Wednesday.
| 186 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:49:19pm |
re: #180 Big Steve
It does not work this way. I am in this business. There is no such thing as a “drilling plan”. This was stubbing in a new well on an existing lease that had been drilled before. Doing this is standard technology which is why BP brings in a subcontractor.
Every well has a drilling plan that has to be approved before a permit is issued. The plan can be amended and changed but any modifications have to be approved by MMS.
This was a new well. There may have been other wells in that area; but there was a drilling plan.
| 187 |
webevintage Wed, May 12, 2010 8:49:37pm |
re: #178 Bagua
No, no no, this is already settled!
Note the URL. Major pawnage. And note the identical real website.
*I wonder how they did that btw.
heh.
The pictures of them both walking though the door on #10 is a bit creepy.
OTOH, this looks like the best story of the day:
California Candidate Guy Apologizes For Not Being Clearer, When He Said He Wanted To Shoot All Liberals
Read more at Wonkette: wonkette.com
| 188 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:50:19pm |
re: #183 Bagua
Surely they did not intentionally leave non-functional test rams in place?
As I said, I could see a small foreign company doing something like this. But Transocean?
re: #184 Floral Giraffe
Concept of plugging a hole, is plugging a hole.
The man was an artist. He’d keep trying until something worked.
Don’t forget, he was an artist at putting out oil well fires. He did so by detonating explosives near the well, to break the fire triangle. No fire here, and it is underwater. It just isn’t his area of expertise.
| 189 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:50:40pm |
Quick question: does anyone here not think that this is something that deserves greater government oversight?
| 190 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 8:51:19pm |
re: #184 Floral Giraffe
Concept of plugging a hole, is plugging a hole.
I ain’t gonna go there
*wink*
| 191 |
Mr Pancakes Wed, May 12, 2010 8:51:25pm |
re: #184 Floral Giraffe
Concept of plugging a hole, is plugging a hole.
The man was an artist. He’d keep trying until something worked.
I agree, I assume his team lives on (?)…….. maybe they have been consulted.
| 192 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:52:05pm |
re: #185 Stanley Sea
From NOLA
[Link: www.nola.com…]
Right now I don’t know what to believe. The reason I say that is because it seems as though BP, Cameron International, Haliburton, and Transocean are going to try and blame anyone but themselves for this disaster.
| 193 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:52:20pm |
re: #189 JasonA
Quick question: does anyone here not think that this is something that deserves greater government oversight?
Aw c’mon dude! Is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?
/
| 194 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:06pm |
re: #191 Mr Pancakes
They have experience, that I think is needed to shut the flow of oil off, out of this well. More than that, I don’t know. But EVERY one who has any experience, should be consulted, to get this DISASTER stopped.
| 195 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:08pm |
re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth
Aw c’mon dude! Is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?
/
Who is John Galt?
| 196 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:19pm |
re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth
Aw c’mon dude! Is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?
/
I don’t know about you, but my brow sweat is feeling a bit more oily than it normally is, hope it doesn’t mean I’m about to break out in a new case of acne….
| 197 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:21pm |
re: #180 Big Steve
It does not work this way. I am in this business. There is no such thing as a “drilling plan”. This was stubbing in a new well on an existing lease that had been drilled before. Doing this is standard technology which is why BP brings in a subcontractor.
A major project like this is not done without formal planning and procedures. There is always a plan and in this case not only the overall plan, but individual parts of it were submitted to the responsible agency.
| 198 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:21pm |
re: #190 Reginald Perrin
That’s what she said.
/incidentally, that’s also why she’s been sneaking over to my place on her lunch breaks
///
| 199 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:41pm |
| 200 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:53:53pm |
re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth
Aw c’mon dude! Is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?
/
Thanks for the excuse!
Beavis: “But master, does not the fire need the water, does not the mountain need the storm too? And does not your scrotum need the kicking?”
| 201 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:54:00pm |
| 202 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 8:54:08pm |
re: #192 Gus 802
That is blame anyone but themselves within that group. So we’ll likely see BP trying to blame Transocean — as an example — and any other combination from within that group.
| 203 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 8:54:16pm |
re: #192 Gus 802
Right now I don’t know what to believe. The reason I say that is because it seems as though BP, Cameron International, Haliburton, and Transocean are going to try and blame anyone but themselves for this disaster.
I’m still reading that article. The most info so far is from the house committee. I guess that’s how it goes, the company isn’t going to release it.
anyone else want to read through and add?
| 204 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 8:54:55pm |
DVR alert: Colbert hinted to a segment tomorrow on Glenn Beck as a prophet.
| 205 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 8:54:59pm |
re: #183 Bagua
Surely they did not intentionally leave non-functional test rams in place?
I don’t know that.
Really, all I know is that modifications were made to the BOP at BP’s request two years ago.
Right now I need to take a break and wallow in my own personal stupidity, because what I saw and observed and lived through with Katrina OBVIOUSLY is incorrect because it doesn’t mesh with what was reported by sensationalism-seeking reporters. And people are PO’d that I’m a bit testy …
| 206 |
Mr Pancakes Wed, May 12, 2010 8:55:18pm |
re: #200 Varek Raith
Thanks for the excuse!
Beavis: “But master, does not the fire need the water, does not the mountain need the storm too? And does not your scrotum need the kicking?”
Does not a bunghole need TP?
| 207 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:55:59pm |
re: #205 reine.de.tout
I don’t know that.
Really, all I know is that modifications were made to the BOP at BP’s request two years ago.Right now I need to take a break and wallow in my own personal stupidity, because what I saw and observed and lived through with Katrina OBVIOUSLY is incorrect because it doesn’t mesh with what was reported by sensationalism-seeking reporters. And people are PO’d that I’m a bit testy …
(((reine)))
| 208 |
teleskiguy Wed, May 12, 2010 8:56:10pm |
re: #189 JasonA
Quick question: does anyone here not think that this is something that deserves greater government oversight?
I think this industry does deserve greater government oversight. I’m reminded of the Progressive Era, when we passed child labor laws, regulated the meat-packing industry (I still can’t finish The Jungle all the way through [wait a minute, that what I just typed was a superfluous redundant pleonastic tautology]), busted the trusts, etcetera. The world’s oceans are too valuable for fuck-ups like this.
| 209 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 8:56:47pm |
re: #200 Varek Raith
| 210 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 8:57:34pm |
re: #208 teleskiguy
I think this industry does deserve greater government oversight. I’m reminded of the Progressive Era, when we passed child labor laws, regulated the meat-packing industry (I still can’t finish The Jungle all the way through [wait a minute, that what I just typed was a superfluous redundant pleonastic tautology]), busted the trusts, etcetera. The world’s oceans are too valuable for fuck-ups like this.
Eh, it turns into socialist propaganda in the final third (seriously). Just read Atlas Shrugged at the same time, and they will cancel each other out.
| 211 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 8:57:43pm |
re: #204 JasonA
DVR alert: Colbert hinted to a segment tomorrow on Glenn Beck as a prophet.
Wait so if Colbert going on Beck’s show or is Beck just going to be pretending he’s a prophet?
| 212 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 8:59:36pm |
re: #209 Slumbering Behemoth
“Check it out, it’s Krokus coming to kick their ass….It’s the night of the living bands that suck.”
| 213 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:00:03pm |
re: #203 Stanley Sea
Wow, thanks, reading now.
Much of the attention is focused on the blowout preventer, or BOP, the massive $15 million piece of equipment that is supposed to be the fail-safe mechanism to keep a well from blowing.
Ok, your friendly neighborhood Bagua is rightly obsessed with the BOP and has been vindicated.
| 214 |
teleskiguy Wed, May 12, 2010 9:00:10pm |
re: #210 Dante41
Eh, it turns into socialist propaganda in the final third (seriously). Just read Atlas Shrugged at the same time, and they will cancel each other out.
I’ve never been able to finish Atlas Shrugged either. It’s a repressively dull book, IMHO.
| 215 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:00:11pm |
re: #211 jamesfirecat
No no no, he just mentioned that he’s doing a bit on Glenn on tomorrow’s Colbert Report. He usually does a great job with them. Ever see the Doom Bunker? Classic.
| 216 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:00:49pm |
re: #208 teleskiguy
I think this industry does deserve greater government oversight. I’m reminded of the Progressive Era, when we passed child labor laws, regulated the meat-packing industry (I still can’t finish The Jungle all the way through [wait a minute, that what I just typed was a superfluous redundant pleonastic tautology]), busted the trusts, etcetera. The world’s oceans are too valuable for fuck-ups like this.
On a more serious note, I just can’t pull my mind around this. God damn it, I thought they learned from Piper Alpha! I thought the oil industry learned that spending $500,000 to save $5 billion is a good deal. As this whole debacle shows, they obviously have not.
| 217 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:01:45pm |
| 218 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:02:01pm |
re: #205 reine.de.tout
{{{Reine}}}
Hang in there!
| 219 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:02:03pm |
re: #214 teleskiguy
I’ve never been able to finish Atlas Shrugged either. It’s a repressively dull book, IMHO.
I’ve never been able to start it. Might be worth it for the lulz. I mean, a Bizarro Robin Hood? How bad can it be…?/
| 220 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:02:22pm |
re: #205 reine.de.tout
That you for your insight reine.de.tout on both disasters, let idle minds wander, but those interested in facts and truth learned both from you.
| 221 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:02:37pm |
re: #215 JasonA
No no no, he just mentioned that he’s doing a bit on Glenn on tomorrow’s Colbert Report. He usually does a great job with them. Ever see the Doom Bunker? Classic.
The problem is that Colbert works by taking something and taking it one level higher and thus making it silly, you can’t be any more silly then Glen Beck already is, that’s why I prefer Jon Stewart for mocking Beck, since his sthick is taking reality and holding a mirror up to it.
Not that I dont’ think Colbert’s bit will be funny.
| 222 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:03:04pm |
re: #213 Bagua
Wow, thanks, reading now.
Ok, your friendly neighborhood Bagua is rightly obsessed
with the BOP and has been vindicated.
FTFY.
{{Bagua}}
| 223 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:03:19pm |
re: #214 teleskiguy
I’ve never been able to finish Atlas Shrugged either. It’s a repressively dull book, IMHO.
Oh, of course it is. However, it is hilarious in its insanity. Don’t take it seriously, and just tear through all the plot holes.
| 224 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 9:04:53pm |
| 225 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:05:50pm |
re: #220 Bagua
Lucky for me I can do both: Let my idle mind wander, and be interested in facts and truth. Not always at the same time, though.
And yes, Reine is a gem, for a whole lot of reasons.
| 226 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:05:54pm |
re: #224 Reginald Perrin
Getting a little kinky in here…
| 227 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:06:04pm |
re: #219 JasonA
I’ve never been able to start it. Might be worth it for the lulz. I mean, a Bizarro Robin Hood? How bad can it be…?/
That is actually one of the funniest parts of the whole book. The backstory of that guy is that he is a former Navy officer that went Galt and stole an (apparent) modern heavy cruiser. And somehow, the Navy wasn’t able to stop him from stealing the thing, and isn’t able to hunt it down with its aircraft carriers.
Sense, it makes none.
| 228 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:06:17pm |
re: #224 Reginald Perrin
Are you forgetting who is in charge?
*smack*
Yes, is it your turn?
Or, are you just saying that it’s your turn?
| 229 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 9:06:36pm |
re: #227 Dante41
That is actually one of the funniest parts of the whole book. The backstory of that guy is that he is a former Navy officer that went Galt and stole an (apparent) modern heavy cruiser. And somehow, the Navy wasn’t able to stop him from stealing the thing, and isn’t able to hunt it down with its aircraft carriers.
Sense, it makes none.
LOLWHUT???
| 230 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:07:17pm |
re: #226 JasonA
Getting a little kinky in here…
You’re jealous!
It’s not my turn, so I can’t invite you…
| 231 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:07:32pm |
re: #227 Dante41
That is too awesome for words…
| 232 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:08:01pm |
| 233 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:08:13pm |
| 234 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:08:20pm |
re: #229 Varek Raith
LOLWHUT???
Apparently, the Navy is too socialist to catch the guy. It seems that Ayn Rand never heard of the Soviet Submarine Service.
| 235 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:08:36pm |
re: #227 Dante41
That is actually one of the funniest parts of the whole book. The backstory of that guy is that he is a former Navy officer that went Galt and stole an (apparent) modern heavy cruiser. And somehow, the Navy wasn’t able to stop him from stealing the thing, and isn’t able to hunt it down with its aircraft carriers.
Sense, it makes none.
ADAM is easier to believe in than that….
| 237 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 9:09:22pm |
re: #234 Dante41
Apparently, the Navy is too socialist to catch the guy. It seems that Ayn Rand never heard of the Soviet Submarine Service.
Rand…
It all makes sense, now.
XD
| 238 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:09:40pm |
| 239 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:09:59pm |
re: #216 Dante41
On a more serious note, I just can’t pull my mind around this. God damn it, I thought they learned from Piper Alpha! I thought the oil industry learned that spending $500,000 to save $5 billion is a good deal. As this whole debacle shows, they obviously have not.
It is not yet established that an acoustic switch would have helped, nor was it established at the time of the drilling. Too early to say.
Furthermore, exactly what regulation did the government fail to develop? The technology, equipment, and procedures were all developed by private industry. The government learns from industry and develops regulations accordingly.
Last I looked it wasn’t some bureaucrat who developed the technology to drill in a mile of water, then three miles down, and then sideways into the pay zone so that we can drive to work in the morning.
| 240 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:10:12pm |
re: #237 Varek Raith
Rand…
It all makes sense, now.
XD
Well, of course. We are talking about the pirate dude from Atlas Shrugged.
| 241 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 9:11:07pm |
re: #240 Dante41
Well, of course. We are talking about the pirate dude from Atlas Shrugged.
Heh, I tend to just avoid anything Rand related. Though, this sounds freaking hilarious.
:)
| 242 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:11:14pm |
re: #240 Dante41
Does Atlas have any rape scenes, or did she get that out of her system in The Fountainhead?
| 243 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:11:17pm |
re: #43 jordash1212
Because Katrina happened during Bush’s presidency. This oil spill happened during Obama’s. My point is really that simple. No politics, just observable fact.
And about the most banal thing a person could say short of “night comes before morning”.
| 244 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 9:11:50pm |
re: #228 Floral Giraffe
Yes, is it your turn?
Or, are you just saying that it’s your turn?
I am saying it is not your turn and you would be wise to behave yourself.
*smack*
| 245 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, May 12, 2010 9:12:37pm |
The new meme seems to be that this was a new well with state of the art equipment intrepidly pushing the envelope. So, a couple of questions, why was the battery on the BOP’s dead man’s switch allowed to die?
Why didn’t BP keep current offsite schematics reflecting their own structural BOP modifications?
“Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.”
-Clark’s Law
Whether this ends up being filed under accident or gross criminal negligence remains to be sussed out, but let us not pretend that there aren’t some very reasonable doubts regarding BP’s ability to adhere to safety protocols.
| 246 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:12:52pm |
re: #242 JasonA
Does Atlas have any rape scenes, or did she get that out of her system in The Fountainhead?
I don’t remember, but I am leaning towards yes.
re: #235 jamesfirecat
ADAM is easier to believe in than that…
Oh, and I love her post-apocalyptic scenarios. Specifically, Randroids trying to spin away the fact that Galt’s Gulch would pretty much enforcing its will through force.
| 247 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:15:26pm |
| 248 |
teleskiguy Wed, May 12, 2010 9:15:27pm |
re: #239 Bagua
It is not yet established that an acoustic switch would have helped, nor was it established at the time of the drilling. Too early to say.
Furthermore, exactly what regulation did the government fail to develop? The technology, equipment, and procedures were all developed by private industry. The government learns from industry and develops regulations accordingly.
Last I looked it wasn’t some bureaucrat who developed the technology to drill in a mile of water, then three miles down, and then sideways into the pay zone so that we can drive to work in the morning.
Too true.
Still, when an industry goes to excess by not paying the workers a fair wage or destroying the environment or covering up massive flaws in their respective industries, I think there needs to be an agency or something that provides adequate oversight.
But we all know you can’t trust the government to do shit like that. So, what now d’ya think?
| 249 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:15:32pm |
re: #246 Dante41
Oh, and I love her post-apocalyptic scenarios. Specifically, Randroids trying to spin away the fact that Galt’s Gulch would pretty much enforcing its will through force.
Of course they were enforcing their will through force. What do you think they’re come up with a system of laws, and then some people to enforce those laws? That’s government my friend and once you have government well I don’t have to tell you do I?
| 250 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:16:44pm |
re: #244 Reginald Perrin
I am saying it is not your turn and you would be wise to behave yourself.
*smack*
Might be more fun to mis-behave. I’m thinking on it…
| 251 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 9:17:27pm |
| 252 |
Varek Raith Wed, May 12, 2010 9:17:34pm |
| 253 |
sattv4u2 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:17:58pm |
re: #250 Floral Giraffe
Might be more fun to mis-behave. I’m thinking on it…
When I’m good, I’m very good. When I’m bad, I’m better.
Mae West
| 254 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:18:24pm |
re: #248 teleskiguy
Too true.
Still, when an industry goes to excess by not paying the workers a fair wage or destroying the environment or covering up massive flaws in their respective industries, I think there needs to be an agency or something that provides adequate oversight.
But we all know you can’t trust the government to do shit like that. So, what now d’ya think?
Absolutely, those are definitely the responsibility of the government. Also, the government regulator is required to examine, approve and verify compliance by the companies it regulates.
| 255 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:19:51pm |
re: #249 jamesfirecat
Of course they were enforcing their will through force. What do you think they’re come up with a system of laws, and then some people to enforce those laws? That’s government my friend and once you have government well I don’t have to tell you do I?
Still, they don’t like to think about that. They just say that people would flock to the Gulch to engage in free trade. Ignoring the fact that the Gulch is the supposed last bastion of civilization, and thus the wastelanders would have nothing to trade.
Also, I love how she handwaves away the prospect of the militaries of the world seizing power without a thought.
| 256 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 9:20:05pm |
re: #219 JasonA
I’ve never been able to start it. Might be worth it for the lulz. I mean, a Bizarro Robin Hood? How bad can it be…?/
This always sound a bit pedantic. If you never read Nietzsche and you are of a certain age, it may be exhilarating to expose yourself to a completely different system of morality. Books who do that are pretty rare. Atlas Shrugged is itself heavily inspired by Nietzsche (I would be less kind and call it a ripoff), and much more accessible work.
| 257 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:20:38pm |
re: #251 freetoken
But… but … but… The Sarah told me it is “safe to drill”…
[Video]
Hate to say it, but so did Obama.
Typing that physically hurt me.
| 258 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:21:14pm |
And now, for something completely different.
| 259 |
sattv4u2 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:21:16pm |
re: #251 freetoken
But… but … but… The
Sarah0ne told me it is “safe to drill”…
[Video]
strange bedfellows!
| 260 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:21:19pm |
re: #256 Nimed
This always sound a bit pedantic. If you never read Nietzsche and you are of a certain age, it may be exhilarating to expose yourself to a completely different system of morality. Books who do that are pretty rare. Atlas Shrugged is itself heavily inspired by Nietzsche (I would be less kind and call it a ripoff), and much more accessible work.
Pah.
Ayn Rand’s “philosophy”: third-hand Nietzsche badly wrapped in greed-porn.
| 261 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:21:47pm |
re: #255 Dante41
Still, they don’t like to think about that. They just say that people would flock to the Gulch to engage in free trade. Ignoring the fact that the Gulch is the supposed last bastion of civilization, and thus the wastelanders would have nothing to trade.
Also, I love how she handwaves away the prospect of the militaries of the world seizing power without a thought.
Don’t forget breaking the laws of thermodynamics so that they can get energy from the air itself!
| 262 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:21:51pm |
re: #256 Nimed
This always sound a bit pedantic. If you never read Nietzsche and you are of a certain age, it may be exhilarating to expose yourself to a completely different system of morality. Books who do that are pretty rare. Atlas Shrugged is itself heavily inspired by Nietzsche (I would be less kind and call it a ripoff), and much more accessible work.
Maybe, but it is a very silly work that unravels with the barest of critical thinking.
| 263 |
Stanley Sea Wed, May 12, 2010 9:21:52pm |
re: #251 freetoken
But… but … but… The Sarah told me it is “safe to drill”…
[Video]
mind burn, eye burn. gah
| 264 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 9:22:20pm |
re: #257 JasonA
Hate to say it, but so did Obama.
Yeah, that’s because it’s what people want to hear.
Humans like being lied to.
Let me repeat that.
We humans like to hear lies told to us (especially about ourselves.)
| 265 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:22:23pm |
re: #251 freetoken
But… but … but… The Sarah told me it is “safe to drill”…
Cheap shot. It was believed safe to drill, and may turn out to have been safe in this instance as well. It is looking more like an accident and series of mistakes.
| 266 |
teleskiguy Wed, May 12, 2010 9:22:27pm |
A’ight my scaly brethren, I’m turning in. Y’all have a good rest of the evening!
| 267 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 9:22:27pm |
re: #250 Floral Giraffe
Might be more fun to mis-behave. I’m thinking on it…
Go for it, you’re lucky you’re 1950 miles away from being punished.
| 268 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:23:18pm |
re: #251 freetoken
But… but … but… The Sarah told me it is “safe to drill”…
[Video]
Oh, but it is. It’s the “not monumentally fucking shit up afterward” part that seems to be a problem for some.
| 270 |
sattv4u2 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:23:31pm |
re: #264 freetoken
Yeah, that’s because it’s what people want to hear.
Humans like being lied to.
Let me repeat that.
We humans like to hear lies told to us (especially about ourselves.)
You’re right, as always! !!
:)
| 271 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:23:32pm |
re: #264 freetoken
Yeah, that’s because it’s what people want to hear.
Humans like being lied to.
Let me repeat that.
We humans like to hear lies told to us (especially about ourselves.)
You’re such a special snowflake, Freetoken!
| 272 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 9:23:43pm |
| 273 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:23:44pm |
re: #264 freetoken
We seem to like lies about risks as well. Profoundly so.
| 275 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:24:27pm |
re: #273 Rightwingconspirator
We seem to like lies about risks as well. Profoundly so.
What internet housing bubble?
| 276 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:24:31pm |
re: #261 jamesfirecat
Don’t forget breaking the laws of thermodynamics so that they can get energy from the air itself!
No, seriously. That entire prospect is handwaved away in one scene. In it, an aspiring warlord at a research base somehow sets off one of the nukes. Thats right, the Army is so socialist, it can’t not nuke itself. And we are left to assume that this is the case world-wide.
| 277 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:24:54pm |
re: #272 freetoken
She isn’t worth anything more expensive.
Not that I blame come to think about it. :)
| 278 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 9:25:29pm |
re: #260 Cato the Elder
Pah.
Ayn Rand’s “philosophy”: third-hand Nietzsche badly wrapped in greed-porn.
I have to admit that’s a better way to put it - and it still captures much of the book’s appeal.
| 279 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:25:32pm |
re: #256 Nimed
This always sound a bit pedantic. If you never read Nietzsche and you are of a certain age, it may be exhilarating to expose yourself to a completely different system of morality. Books who do that are pretty rare. Atlas Shrugged is itself heavily inspired by Nietzsche (I would be less kind and call it a ripoff), and much more accessible work.
If by “accessible” you mean stilted, shorn of nuance, and lacking in any glimmer of poetry or inspiration - maybe so.
Nietzsche, even in translation, glows. Rand is ash and embers beside his fire.
| 280 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 9:26:04pm |
I can see that some of the other political groups are getting carried away already. Looking at a website called SeizeBP dot org and they’re not making much sense.
The government of the United States must seize BP and freeze its assets, and place those funds in trust to begin providing immediate relief to the working people throughout the Gulf states whose jobs, communities, homes and businesses are being harmed or destroyed by the criminally negligent actions of the CEO, Board of Directors and senior management of BP.
This was a manufactured disaster. It was neither an “Act of God” nor Nature that caused this devastation, but rather the unmitigated greed of Big Oil’s most powerful executives in their reckless search for ever-greater profits.
Right. The United States is going to seize the assets of a UK based corporation. Fire everyone, close down shop, and stop all BP oil production. Imagine if you will the worldwide economic impact of shutting down BP oil production.
No surprise though. It’s run by International A.N.S.W.E.R.
Still crazy after all these years.
| 281 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:26:26pm |
re: #279 Cato the Elder
If by “accessible” you mean stilted, shorn of nuance, and lacking in any glimmer of poetry or inspiration - maybe so.
Nietzsche, even in translation, glows. Rand is ash and embers beside his fire.
Tell us how really feel.
| 282 |
sattv4u2 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:27:03pm |
| 283 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:27:20pm |
re: #272 freetoken
She isn’t worth anything more expensive.
Rock salt is the best Sarah deserves. Lead is too valuable.
| 284 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:27:31pm |
| 285 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 9:27:32pm |
re: #265 Bagua
Cheap shot. It was believed safe to drill, and may turn out to have been safe in this instance as well. It is looking more like an accident and series of mistakes.
This is a devastating incident. but how often does this happen? When was the last time you heard of a well blowing out like this? Many decades.
It’s my understanding there were various problems and difficulties with this well all along.
But the bottom line is that BP made some very bad decisions as to how to try to plug this well. This incident was completely preventable, except for BP wanting to plug it quickly instead of safely.
| 286 |
Mr Pancakes Wed, May 12, 2010 9:27:56pm |
| 287 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:28:43pm |
re: #280 Gus 802
I can see that some of the other political groups are getting carried away already. Looking at a website called SeizeBP dot org and they’re not making much sense.
Right. The United States is going to seize the assets of a UK based corporation. Fire everyone, close down shop, and stop all BP oil production. Imagine if you will the worldwide economic impact of shutting down BP oil production.
No surprise though. It’s run by International A.N.S.W.E.R.
Still crazy after all these years.
And to put the cherry on top, Code Pink is demanding it as well.
This can pretty much tell you everything you need to know about the intelligence of the idea.
| 288 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 9:29:24pm |
| 289 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:29:28pm |
re: #279 Cato the Elder
Nietzsche, even in translation, glows.
With the white-hot hatred of a thousand nihilists, he glows.
| 290 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:29:47pm |
re: #275 JasonA
Ever been pissed your flight was canceled by weather? Okay but just how bad a storm does your seriously behind schedule mind want to fly through? It’s individuals too.
| 291 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:30:25pm |
re: #289 Slumbering Behemoth
With the white-hot hatred of a thousand nihilists, he glows.
You have obviously never read him, or if you did, you failed to understand a word.
| 292 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:30:59pm |
re: #290 Rightwingconspirator
Ever been pissed your flight was canceled by weather? Okay but just how bad a storm does your seriously behind schedule mind want to fly through? It’s individuals too.
I… I’m struggling to find out how this metaphor applies. Help me out here.
| 293 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:31:10pm |
re: #291 Cato the Elder
You have obviously never read him, or if you did, you failed to understand a word.
You keep telling me that, and I keep telling you you’re full of it. ‘Nuther round?
| 294 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:31:14pm |
re: #289 Slumbering Behemoth
With the white-hot hatred of a thousand nihilists, he glows.
“Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, man, at least it’s an ethos.”
/damn well BETTER not be obscure
| 295 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 9:31:23pm |
re: #287 Dante41
And to put the cherry on top, Code Pink is demanding it as well.
This can pretty much tell you everything you need to know about the intelligence of the idea.
Yeah, now there’s a genius pool: Code Pink.
I was trying to find how much oil BP produces per day. If you seized their assets you would effectively stop that production. Would have a serious worldwide impact that would only add to our current economic problems and the oil spill recovery.
| 296 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 9:31:41pm |
re: #279 Cato the Elder
If by “accessible” you mean stilted, shorn of nuance, and lacking in any glimmer of poetry or inspiration - maybe so.
Nietzsche, even in translation, glows. Rand is ash and embers beside his fire.
If it were up to me, this would be in the back cover of every copy of the book.
| 297 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:32:04pm |
| 299 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:33:20pm |
| 300 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:33:56pm |
re: #293 Slumbering Behemoth
You keep telling me that, and I keep telling you you’re full of it. ‘Nuther round?
I don’t recall ever discussing Nietzsche with you before, and I promise you I won’t try in the future. Some minds are best left in the dark.
| 301 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:34:00pm |
re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth
Is it politcally incorrect of me to say that all fire-art looks the same?
| 302 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:34:14pm |
The funny thing is…
everything is always blamed on the politicians, like they know more than speech delivery and how to win a vote. Part model, part windbag, and managers of their staffs of clerk and secretaries. They do nothing, really, but spend money, argue and try to look pretty for the cameras.
They take credit for things they don’t do and get blamed for things they didn’t and knew little about. Party political games are 99.9% nonsense and .1% reality.
| 303 |
jaunte Wed, May 12, 2010 9:34:15pm |
re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth
I always recognize you by your middle finger.
| 304 |
Mr Pancakes Wed, May 12, 2010 9:34:28pm |
re: #299 Dante41
From a glance, they look almost identical.
Nah….. one of them is a flaming middle finger.
| 305 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:34:57pm |
| 306 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:35:02pm |
re: #294 Dante41
“Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, man, at least it’s an ethos.”
/damn well BETTER not be obscure
The Dude abides.
| 307 |
sattv4u2 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:35:03pm |
re: #304 Mr Pancakes
Nah… one of them is a flaming middle finger.
and the other is a flaming ,, ummm,,,, eerrrr,,, nevahmind!
| 308 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:35:16pm |
re: #300 Cato the Elder
Some minds are best left in the dark.
And that’s where I’ll leave Nietzsche’s, just where it belongs.
| 309 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:37:15pm |
re: #285 reine.de.tout
Aviation safety is built upon crashes. Crash and fix. Damn shame but we fly. Millions daily. We learn. We rebuild/regulate accordingly. We get back to work.
Fix the problem first. Fixing the blame can wait for that much.
| 310 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:37:24pm |
| 311 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:38:15pm |
| 312 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:38:55pm |
re: #297 JasonA
Is it too similar? I suppose I would have to change Dragon_Lady too.
| 313 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:39:09pm |
| 314 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:39:44pm |
re: #312 Rightwingconspirator
Is it too similar? I suppose I would have to change Dragon_Lady too.
Hm. I forget what her’s looks like.
| 315 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, May 12, 2010 9:40:10pm |
EPA: Stubborn Environment Refusing To Meet Civilization Halfway
WASHINGTON—The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency called a press conference Monday to publicly denounce the environment for blatantly refusing to pull its weight in mankind’s ongoing efforts at ecological conservation.
“For 40 years, we have worked tirelessly to ensure the health and safety of our natural environment,” a visibly angered EPA administrator Lisa Jackson told reporters. “But this can only work when it’s a give-and-take. If the environment won’t even meet us halfway by regenerating a rain forest or two, or pumping out some clean air and water every once in a while, then what’s the point of us trying?”
Nite Lizards.
| 316 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 9:40:25pm |
re: #309 Rightwingconspirator
Aviation safety is built upon crashes. Crash and fix. Damn shame but we fly. Millions daily. We learn. We rebuild/regulate accordingly. We get back to work.
Fix the problem first. Fixing the blame can wait for that much.
Good point.
The thing is, RWC - I believe there were indications of serious problems that were ignored or dismissed.
The technology is plenty safe, IF one is paying attention. And it requires a lot of attention.
| 317 |
reine.de.tout Wed, May 12, 2010 9:40:47pm |
re: #315 Slumbering Behemoth
EPA: Stubborn Environment Refusing To Meet Civilization Halfway
Nite Lizards.
Night!
| 318 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 9:40:57pm |
re: #289 Slumbering Behemoth
With the white-hot hatred of a thousand nihilists, he glows.
These discussions of “isms” can be tricky, but it’s really not accurate to characterize Nietzsche as a nihilist.
And why would nihilists be so full of hate, anyway?
| 319 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:41:10pm |
re: #315 Slumbering Behemoth
EPA: Stubborn Environment Refusing To Meet Civilization Halfway
Nite Lizards.
Night, man.
| 321 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:43:06pm |
re: #314 JasonA
It’s another fire. SB is a photoshopped fire/nuke. D_L’s and mine come from a series of furnace pictures I did.
| 323 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:43:39pm |
re: #285 reine.de.tout
This is a devastating incident. but how often does this happen? When was the last time you heard of a well blowing out like this? Many decades.
It’s my understanding there were various problems and difficulties with this well all along.
But the bottom line is that BP made some very bad decisions as to how to try to plug this well. This incident was completely preventable, except for BP wanting to plug it quickly instead of safely.
Yes, that appears to be the reality. We’d never have known there were problems with the supposedly fail-safe BOP had the blow out not occurred.
In some ways we got lucky that this occurred where and when it did. The depth of the water and the distance from shore will result in more of the oil dissipating and being digested prior to hitting the shore than the same volume of oil spilled closer to the shore.
Sleep tight!
| 325 |
Mr Pancakes Wed, May 12, 2010 9:45:02pm |
| 326 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:45:28pm |
re: #324 Stanley Sea
Heh. I wasn’t seriously suggesting that anyone change their pics. Just kvetching.
| 327 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:46:22pm |
re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth
And that’s where I’ll leave Nietzsche’s, just where it belongs.
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” —Nietzsche
| 328 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:47:21pm |
re: #309 Rightwingconspirator
Aviation safety is built upon crashes. Crash and fix. Damn shame but we fly. Millions daily. We learn. We rebuild/regulate accordingly. We get back to work.
Fix the problem first. Fixing the blame can wait for that much.
Actually, Aviation safety is built upon avoiding crashes, accidents are built upon having this sort of ‘acceptable losses’ attitude you espouse.
| 329 |
Racer X Wed, May 12, 2010 9:47:57pm |
| 330 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:48:02pm |
re: #316 reine.de.tout
I bet it does. I mean every energy source that powerful has dangers. Even if I use water for my fuel-All that hydrogen would be damn dangerous. SoCal has Torrance-Refineries galore, with the occasional explosion or fire. Sadly like Challenger. Yet we built the ISS with the shuttle.
Make certain these mistakes never happen again. This showed us the weakest link.
| 331 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:48:09pm |
Oh, and you want a different opinion of the current disaster, the troofers think that BP blew up the Deepwater Horizon intentionally. Why? Um…because oil companies are run by Jews and are therefore evil?
/seriously, that is the beast they’ve got so far
| 332 |
jamesfirecat Wed, May 12, 2010 9:49:49pm |
re: #331 Dante41
Oh, and you want a different opinion of the current disaster, the troofers think that BP blew up the Deepwater Horizon intentionally. Why? Um…because oil companies are run by Jews and are therefore evil?
/seriously, that is the beast they’ve got so far
Bring back the Norks and their mini submarine, at least that was a crazy theory you could hang your hat on!
| 333 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:50:54pm |
re: #267 Reginald Perrin
Go for it, you’re lucky you’re 1950 miles away from being punished.
That’s lucky?
I don’t think so….
| 335 |
Racer X Wed, May 12, 2010 9:51:35pm |
| 336 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:51:40pm |
re: #332 jamesfirecat
Bring back the Norks and their mini submarine, at least that was a crazy theory you could hang your hat on!
They actually that that was a government plant to distract the public. They hold the same opinion of Rush Limbaugh.
That’s right: They think that Rush works for Obama.
| 337 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:51:59pm |
re: #331 Dante41
Oh, and you want a different opinion of the current disaster, the troofers think that BP blew up the Deepwater Horizon intentionally. Why? Um…because oil companies are run by Jews and are therefore evil?
/seriously, that is the beast they’ve got so far
Fear the Beast!
| 338 |
Querent Wed, May 12, 2010 9:53:29pm |
re: #210 Dante41
Eh, it turns into socialist propaganda in the final third (seriously). Just read Atlas Shrugged at the same time, and they will cancel each other out.
Yes, another testimonial for Rand Brand Cerebral Colon-Cleaner!!
| 339 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 9:54:06pm |
re: #331 Dante41
Oh, and you want a different opinion of the current disaster, the troofers think that BP blew up the Deepwater Horizon intentionally. Why? Um…because oil companies are run by Jews and are therefore evil?
/seriously, that is the beast they’ve got so far
We used to have better conspiracy theories. What happened?
| 340 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 9:54:23pm |
re: #335 Racer X
Dude is a professor at UCLA.
Is that why I should take him more seriously than the tea-baggers calling for revolution?
| 341 |
Reginald Perrin Wed, May 12, 2010 9:54:35pm |
re: #333 Floral Giraffe
That’s lucky?
I don’t think so…
That’s not what people who really know me think, be thankful it’s that far.
*wink*
| 342 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:54:39pm |
re: #338 Querent
Yes, another testimonial for Rand Brand Cerebral Colon-Cleaner!!
It’s not the reading of Ayn Rand one fears. It’s the excretions that follow after.
| 343 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:54:40pm |
re: #335 Racer X
Dude is a professor at UCLA.
Seriously? I was just going to ask who that lunatic was and what sort of “teacher” he was.
| 344 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:54:59pm |
re: #334 Bagua
Seriously?
Seriously. They think that either Blackwater or Navy SEALS went up in a rubber dinghy and planted some C4 on the rig, and that the eleven missing were witnesses duct-taped to ensure their silence. They know this is true despite the rig blowing up in a completely different manner than that because they had been talking to “ex-military” like themselves.
They don’t have a motive yet, but they are hard at work to find the troof of the matter!
| 345 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 9:56:00pm |
re: #328 Bagua
I refer to the reality of the situation, not meaning to promote some attitude of acceptable losses. It’s my acceptance of the fact that losses happen.
Crashes/industrial disasters provide the hard won data to make the changes to reduce them. In the absence of problems, what would you want to change? That’s why we have black boxes. Not to carefully evaluate uneventful flights. That gets erased. We learn from our mistakes. Some mechanical, some managerial.
| 346 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 9:56:38pm |
re: #340 JasonA
Is that why I should take him more seriously than the tea-baggers calling for revolution?
The minor difference being the tea-baggers are American citizens and the Mexicans are illegal aliens.
But yea, let’s not take sides or anything.
| 347 |
Dancing along the light of day Wed, May 12, 2010 9:56:55pm |
re: #341 Reginald Perrin
That’s not what people who really know me think, be thankful it’s that far.
*wink*
*smooch*
Sleep tight.
It’s my turn tomorrow.
Bwahahah!
| 348 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 9:57:09pm |
re: #339 Nimed
We used to have better conspiracy theories. What happened?
No, its still the same. Jews are responsible for everything bad in the world. Including dairy farmers suiciding themselves and their herd.
| 349 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 9:59:53pm |
re: #345 Rightwingconspirator
I refer to the reality of the situation, not meaning to promote some attitude of acceptable losses. It’s my acceptance of the fact that losses happen.
Crashes/industrial disasters provide the hard won data to make the changes to reduce them. In the absence of problems, what would you want to change? That’s why we have black boxes. Not to carefully evaluate uneventful flights. That gets erased. We learn from our mistakes. Some mechanical, some managerial.
Trouble is, we tailless monkeys have reached the point of puissance in our abilities that some “mistakes” can never be corrected. We could drill and reap offshore for a hundred years without error and still be suffering from this one disaster.
| 350 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 10:01:09pm |
re: #344 Dante41
Seriously. They think that either Blackwater or Navy SEALS went up in a rubber dinghy and planted some C4 on the rig, and that the eleven missing were witnesses duct-taped to ensure their silence. They know this is true despite the rig blowing up in a completely different manner than that because they had been talking to “ex-military” like themselves.
They don’t have a motive yet, but they are hard at work to find the troof of the matter!
That is so depressing, why does everybody hate the Jews and blame them for everything.
If it didn’t lead to so much suffering over the ages it would be almost flattering. Jews are apparently capable of anything, anywhere, and have complete operational security so only those with butter on their heads and tin foil on their walls know the secret truth.
Yeash!
| 351 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 10:01:41pm |
re: #339 Nimed
We used to have better conspiracy theories. What happened?
Well, how about this one:
Oil is a fossil, remnants of microscopic sea creatures from millions of years ago.
Or at least that is what the evolutionists want you to believe.
We all know the truth: that oil is produced continuously deep in the Earth, that’s the way God designed it so that everyone could have a car.
The evolutionist environmentalists, knowing that it is God’s will that use what He created, but hating him for it, in an attempt to keep God’s chosen nation (at least until He returns and sets up his throne in Jerusalem) from prospering, intentionally set about to sabotage BP’s latest effort.
I know this is is true for Rush told me so.
| 352 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 10:01:45pm |
| 353 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 10:02:38pm |
re: #346 Bagua
The minor difference being the tea-baggers are American citizens and the Mexicans are illegal aliens.
But yea, let’s not take sides or anything.
Somehow I take little comfort in that distinction.
And the word is “yeah”, unless you’re going for the Biblical touch.
| 354 |
Querent Wed, May 12, 2010 10:03:15pm |
| 355 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 10:03:15pm |
re: #352 Rightwingconspirator
Kind of a happy face going on there.
| 356 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 10:03:40pm |
re: #350 Bagua
That is so depressing, why does everybody hate the Jews and blame them for everything.
If it didn’t lead to so much suffering over the ages it would be almost flattering. Jews are apparently capable of anything, anywhere, and have complete operational security so only those with butter on their heads and tin foil on their walls know the secret truth.
Yeash!
I know it has been said before, but I forget who said it: “If you think that some secret cabal of Jews is running the world, you have obviously never met a Jew. “
| 357 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 10:06:34pm |
re: #351 freetoken
Well, how about this one:
Oil is a fossil, remnants of microscopic sea creatures from millions of years ago.
Or at least that is what the evolutionists want you to believe.
We all know the truth: that oil is produced continuously deep in the Earth, that’s the way God designed it so that everyone could have a car.
The evolutionist environmentalists, knowing that it is God’s will that use what He created, but hating him for it, in an attempt to keep God’s chosen nation (at least until He returns and sets up his throne in Jerusalem) from prospering, intentionally set about to sabotage BP’s latest effort.
I know this is is true for Rush told me so.
That one is not bad. But it requires a bit more elaboration if it’s going to compete with the likes of the Priory of Sion, the Bavarian Illuminati or the Freemasonsry.
| 358 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 10:07:23pm |
re: #346 Bagua
The minor difference being the tea-baggers are American citizens and the Mexicans are illegal aliens.
But yea, let’s not take sides or anything.
Ummm… most Mexicans in this country are legal citizens. Might want to be careful there.
| 359 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 10:07:57pm |
re: #349 Cato the Elder
All efforts have got to be made to fix this and make sure it never repeats.
We suffered the consequences of errors far worse. Hiroshima & Nagasaki come to mind. But what is the population of those places today? The lesson they starkly provide has kept nuclear warriors at bay. So far.
But what shall we do? Crawl back to bed and pull over the covers? Stop pumping oil? Stop splitting atoms?
Not going to happen.
| 360 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 10:09:09pm |
re: #345 Rightwingconspirator
I refer to the reality of the situation, not meaning to promote some attitude of acceptable losses. It’s my acceptance of the fact that losses happen.
Crashes/industrial disasters provide the hard won data to make the changes to reduce them. In the absence of problems, what would you want to change? That’s why we have black boxes. Not to carefully evaluate uneventful flights. That gets erased. We learn from our mistakes. Some mechanical, some managerial.
No man, you have pushed this theme several times already, you believe in it. Nothing to see here folks, happens all the time, we learn from our mistakes, drill baby drill.
Bullshit. This is not routine.
We learn from intellectual curiosity, not complacency and a reliance on learning our mistakes from the autopsy.
| 361 |
Dante41 Wed, May 12, 2010 10:09:10pm |
re: #357 Nimed
That one is not bad. But it requires a bit more elaboration if it’s going to compete with the likes of the Priory of Sion, the Bavarian Illuminati or the Freemasonsry.
And it doesn’t have the proper cognitive dissonance of the 9/11 troof theories. Needs a bit of work.
| 362 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 10:09:59pm |
re: #355 JasonA
Maybe it will shrink well. Thats the trick, a good tiny image. That was a hard shot to get.
| 363 |
Racer X Wed, May 12, 2010 10:10:56pm |
re: #360 Bagua
No man, you have pushed this theme several times already, you believe in it. Nothing to see here folks, happens all the time, we learn from our mistakes, drill baby drill.
Bullshit. This is not routine.
We learn from intellectual curiosity, not complacency and a reliance on learning our mistakes from the autopsy.
What would you propose?
| 364 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 10:14:33pm |
re: #358 JasonA
Ummm… most Mexicans in this country are legal citizens. Might want to be careful there.
I was careful, there are an unknown number of illegals and it is said to be many millions. Many of the present citizens are also former illegals from the last amnesty. No problemo amigo, but don’t talk about revolution and expect love from me.
Does anyone have the estimated numbers on this?
| 365 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 12, 2010 10:15:18pm |
re: #360 Bagua
Well sure I believe “it” or I would not post it.
“Drill baby drill”? Not really what I’m getting at.
What would you suggest beyond what I’m saying? Shut down all the deep rigs forthwith? And then refuse to buy oil from those hostile countries over there? Pick your poison.
| 366 |
Cato the Elder Wed, May 12, 2010 10:17:29pm |
re: #361 Dante41
And it doesn’t have the proper cognitive dissonance of the 9/11 troof theories. Needs a bit of work.
Besides, there is the possibility that “fossil fuels” actually are not made of dead dinosaurs or plants, but produced deep under the earth with the aid of anaerobic organisms (which would account for the “fossil” components).
See “The Deep Hot Biosphere” by Thomas Gold. Money quote: “Hydrocarbons are not biology reworked by geology (as traditional view would hold), but rather geology reworked by biology.”
It is, needless to say, a hotly contested theory.
| 367 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 10:18:09pm |
re: #353 Cato the Elder
Somehow I take little comfort in that distinction.
And the word is “yeah”, unless you’re going for the Biblical touch.
Thank you dear teacher. I was looking at that funny when I wrote it but I couldn’t put my finger on it.
And I agree, I too hate all enemies of the constitution, both foreign and domestic.
| 368 |
Four More Tears Wed, May 12, 2010 10:20:39pm |
re: #364 Bagua
12M according to this AP article: breitbart.com
And I disagree. That professor, and I’m not sticking up for what he’s saying, is in this country legally. He’s not just trying to talk to illegals, so I’m not sure why you made it a point to throw that word in there.
| 369 |
Racer X Wed, May 12, 2010 10:24:15pm |
| 370 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 10:26:03pm |
re: #365 Rightwingconspirator
Well sure I believe “it” or I would not post it.
“Drill baby drill”? Not really what I’m getting at.
What would you suggest beyond what I’m saying? Shut down all the deep rigs forthwith? And then refuse to buy oil from those hostile countries over there? Pick your poison.
My proposal would be a moratorium on offshore drilling until there is a full understanding of what went wrong and new equipment designed, tested and deployed that would add additional levels of fail-safe that fully earn that label.
The amount of additional oil coming online from new wells is incremental anyway, this one is a big find, and I’m happy to pump it to the shore once I believe it will never again float to the shore in such a quantity as is expected.
| 371 |
sngnsgt Wed, May 12, 2010 10:29:36pm |
re: #369 Racer X
Wow, he’s going to busy, he obviously spent a lot of time alone practicing! Very impressive.
| 372 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 10:31:20pm |
re: #357 Nimed
Well, how about this:
The Deep Horizon’s explosion occurred on April 20th. Remember that date. Anyway, that was 16 days after Easter this year, which was on April 4th in both Eastern and Western calendars (remember that too!)
Now, we have to go back to why BP wanted to drill in that particular location, called the Macondo Prospect. First hard evidence that prospect might be fruitful for oil exploration came from seismic data collected in 2003.
What is so special about that year? Well, in 2003 Easter was on …. wait for it… April 20th. Yup, same date as the oil “accident”.
You know what else happened in April 2003? Well, let me tell you… the Human Genome Project was completed! It is through this sort of chicanery that the evolutionists try to pull the wool over the faithfuls’ eyes! Telling us we came from slime mold!!
So the evolutionist environmentalists, on learning of the seismic data in 2003, and bolstered in their secular materialism by a religion called “genetics”, determined to commemorate that day with something special, a terrorism plot to be perpetrated for mother Gaia. To compete with Christ, they picked the day of Easter. Then, seven years later (and we all know what 7 means!) their devious plan bore fruit.
I’m telling you, if there are two types of people you should never trust, it would be environmentalists and especially evolutionists.
| 373 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 10:35:32pm |
re: #368 JasonA
12M according to this AP article: [Link: www.breitbart.com…]
And I disagree. That professor, and I’m not sticking up for what he’s saying, is in this country legally. He’s not just trying to talk to illegals, so I’m not sure why you made it a point to throw that word in there.
OK, 12 million are illegal aliens. That is already 25-50% of the numbers that revolutionary was going on about. Now what number of that 20-40 million were former illegal aliens who came in under the last amnesty or their decedents?
I’m starting to see a trend here, that UCLA professor has raised my awareness.
| 374 |
Gus Wed, May 12, 2010 10:38:15pm |
Iraq Withdrawal has been extended:
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
May 12, 2010
Message from the President on the Continuation of the National Emergency with Respect to the Stabalization of Iraq
TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:
Section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent the enclosed notice to the Federal Register for publication, continuing the national emergency with respect to the stabilization of Iraq. This notice states that the national emergency with respect to the stabilization of Iraq declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, as modified in scope and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13438 of July 17, 2007, is to continue in effect beyond May 22, 2010.
Obstacles to the orderly reconstruction of Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the country, and the development of political, administrative, and economic institutions in Iraq continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. Accordingly, I have determined that it is necessary to continue the national emergency with respect to this threat and maintain in force the measures taken to deal with that national emergency.
The Iraqi government continues to take steps to resolve debts and settle claims arising from the actions of the previous regime. Before the end of the year, my Administration will review the Iraqi government’s progress on resolving these outstanding debts and claims, as well as other relevant circumstances, in order to determine whether the prohibitions contained in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, as amended by Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004, on any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process with respect to the Development Fund for Iraq, the accounts, assets, and property held by the Central Bank of Iraq, and Iraqi petroleum-related products, should continue in effect beyond December 31, 2010, which are in addition to the sovereign immunity ordinarily provided to Iraq as a sovereign nation under otherwise applicable law.
| 375 |
Kruk Wed, May 12, 2010 10:39:34pm |
re: #353 Cato the Elder
Somehow I take little comfort in that distinction.
And the word is “yeah”, unless you’re going for the Biblical touch.
Heh. “Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death…” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
| 376 |
Nimed Wed, May 12, 2010 10:48:13pm |
re: #372 freetoken
Well, how about this:
The Deep Horizon’s explosion occurred on April 20th. Remember that date. Anyway, that was 16 days after Easter this year, which was on April 4th in both Eastern and Western calendars (remember that too!)
Now, we have to go back to why BP wanted to drill in that particular location, called the Macondo Prospect. First hard evidence that prospect might be fruitful for oil exploration came from seismic data collected in 2003.
What is so special about that year? Well, in 2003 Easter was on … wait for it… April 20th. Yup, same date as the oil “accident”.
You know what else happened in April 2003? Well, let me tell you… the Human Genome Project was completed! It is through this sort of chicanery that the evolutionists try to pull the wool over the faithfuls’ eyes! Telling us we came from slime mold!!
So the evolutionist environmentalists, on learning of the seismic data in 2003, and bolstered in their secular materialism by a religion called “genetics”, determined to commemorate that day with something special, a terrorism plot to be perpetrated for mother Gaia. To compete with Christ, they picked the day of Easter. Then, seven years later (and we all know what 7 means!) their devious plan bore fruit.
I’m telling you, if there are two types of people you should never trust, it would be environmentalists and especially evolutionists.
Oh. My. God. You’re right. It’s all coming together now. I will add yet another piece to the puzzle.
In April 20th 1884, Pope Leo XIII, inspired by a vision, promulgates a papal encyclical, warning humanity of the three-fold dangers of naturalism, the Freemasonry, and the Enlightenment vision of a Godless state.
The name of the encyclical? HUMANUM GENUS
freetoken, I’m not sure safe to communicate in a public message board anymore.
freetoken?
Are you there?
| 377 |
freetoken Wed, May 12, 2010 10:52:04pm |
re: #376 Nimed
Sorry but I can no longer discuss this, I’ve already written too much.
| 378 |
swamprat Wed, May 12, 2010 10:54:54pm |
re: #374 Gus 802
Iraq Withdrawal has been extended:
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
May 12, 2010
Message from the President on the Continuation of the National Emergency with Respect to the Stabalization of IraqTO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:
I was hoping he would side with the people of Iraq, and leave the left twisting in the wind. Leadership is doing what is right,rather than what is wanted. Regardless of the justification for Iraq’s’ occupation, to abandon them now would be to leave them to a veritable pack of wolves. Good for our president to male the tough calls.He made the right choice.
Thank you Mr. President. It won’t get easier.
| 380 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, May 12, 2010 11:03:09pm |
| 381 |
Cineaste Wed, May 12, 2010 11:26:13pm |
re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote
Right now is the time to not finger point and to clean up the mess as best we can.
Everyone always says this and I don’t understand it. Why not look at things now. Can’t we have one group of experts who are solving the problem while another group of experts are figuring out why it happened?
It’s like saying that last week, when that dingbat tried to blow up his car in Times Square and screwed it up, that the police shouldn’t have started tracking down who did it until after the car had been towed to the impound lot.
| 382 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 11:46:57pm |
re: #377 freetoken
Sorry but I can no longer discuss this, I’ve already written too much.
Ha! Too late, we have captured your intertoobs address!
| 383 |
Bagua Wed, May 12, 2010 11:48:32pm |
re: #65 jamesfirecat
Yes because it’s so much easier to evacuate a major American city than to build a FREAKING CUT OFF PUMP/VALVE!
Yes, in fact the technology to move 100,000 people is quite simple. Buses, cars and ambulances could have handled the task. Those who couldn’t - or wouldn’t evacuate - could have been provided for as well with more provisions and a faster rescue response.
Alternatively, the technology necessary to drill in a mile of seawater, and then another mile or so below the sea floor, and then horizontally into a pay zone is far more complex, challenging and expensive.
| 384 |
ryannon Thu, May 13, 2010 12:54:22am |
re: #147 Bagua
The Rig, and the BOP are front line current technology. In fact, state of the art. They were pushing the envelope in deep water and that was the best equipment available. Somebody(s) made a dreadful error(s), and at the worst possible time on the worst possible hole.
Yes, the employers are ultimately responsible as legal entities, but the men who screwed up did the actual deed, and we have no way of knowing if they were Republicans, or Democrats, or even voters.
Or even alive.
| 385 |
ryannon Thu, May 13, 2010 1:01:33am |
re: #189 JasonA
Quick question: does anyone here not think that this is something that deserves greater government oversight?
Leave the government out of this. It’s the domain of private industry. And good practice for the day when they’ll be running all those nuclear generators that will help us avoid awful accidents like this one.
| 386 |
ryannon Thu, May 13, 2010 1:03:37am |
re: #194 Floral Giraffe
They have experience, that I think is needed to shut the flow of oil off, out of this well. More than that, I don’t know. But EVERY one who has any experience, should be consulted, to get this DISASTER stopped.
Indeed!
(Harumph) Never should have been allowed to happen in the first place.
What do you mean, it can’t be stopped?
| 387 |
Liberal Classic Thu, May 13, 2010 5:11:52am |
re: #360 Bagua
We learn from intellectual curiosity, not complacency and a reliance on learning our mistakes from the autopsy.
I disagree. The situation may be regrettable, but sometimes this is the way we learn.
| 388 |
CSKapper Thu, May 13, 2010 9:08:30am |
These pictures…this disaster…breaks my heart.
~Chris
Tampa, FL
| 389 |
lostlakehiker Thu, May 13, 2010 9:46:24am |
re: #29 shai_au
I know that it’s horrible for the environment and everything, but some of these pictures have been spectacular.
Anyway, is there anything that Obama could have done to manage this better? Calling it his “Katrina” implies that there was mismanagement on the part of the government, but is that actually the case?
It’s a serious question. I’d actually like to know. How much control does the US government have over these waters?
As was shown in the case of Katrina, the U.S. has no control whatsoever over the waters themselves. The weather will do what it likes. On the other hand, the U.S. does have authority to regulate BP’s drilling. BP submitted its estimate of the worst-case spill. We’re already up to about ten times that. Nor was this the first BP lie to regulators. Their safety record is terrible. Their record at soothing Congress, regulators, and the public is astonishing. If this had happened on Bush’s watch, people would be asking why he cut his capitalist oil industry cronies so much slack after the Texas city disaster. Why were they even allowed to operate any risky enterprise, given their track record at managing risk? Why were they not at a minimum required to buy insurance against contingencies which they said were impossible? If the insurance industry believed them, it would have been happy to write the policy; can’t lose, right?
Exactly. No insurance company would have written such a policy. Not for BP. Quite possibly, not for anybody. When your money’s on the line, you take a more sober view of what’s possible.
Aside: Nuclear energy doesn’t have to be safe in the sense that nothing bad can happen. It need only be safe in the sense that its track record is better than the track record of the alternatives actually before us. The alternatives we’ll perforce go with, if we don’t go with nuclear.
| 390 |
lostlakehiker Thu, May 13, 2010 9:52:10am |
re: #335 Racer X
Dude is a professor at UCLA.
Dude is a raza-ist. And a Communist. It’s a bi-fecta of evil.
| 391 |
S'latch Fri, May 14, 2010 4:00:12am |
This is horrible. I am deeply depressed by this story. The questions about whether the firefighters made the BP oil spill worse are very disturbing. The images of the dolphins under the oil spill are sickening. Now, I have to drive to work and I feel helpless.
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