1 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:11:34pm

Groovy.

2 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:12:00pm

And beautiful.

3 Rocinante  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:21:53pm

pathetic

4 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:30:21pm

re: #3 jeckman

pathetic

Apparently, some folks ain't got no taste...

5 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:32:16pm
6 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:33:03pm

Hey guys I'm back, I'm now truly part of "last year" since I finally managed to beat all six campaigns of Left 4 Dead 2 on Advanced. (Was only playing when my brother was free I'm actually pretty good at the game)

7 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:33:13pm

While it's not a great song to me, I have probably 1000 songs on my iphone that aren't as good as this. I'll give it a thumbs up.

8 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:34:50pm

re: #5 Charles

Image: sleeper.jpg

Yeah it was just a little obvious. I stirred them up some Charles... My fault.

9 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:35:05pm

re: #6 jamesfirecat

Hey guys I'm back, I'm now truly part of "last year" since I finally managed to beat all six campaigns of Left 4 Dead 2 on Advanced. (Was only playing when my brother was free I'm actually pretty good at the game)

Look, NERDs!

10 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:35:19pm

re: #6 jamesfirecat

Hey guys I'm back, I'm now truly part of "last year" since I finally managed to beat all six campaigns of Left 4 Dead 2 on Advanced. (Was only playing when my brother was free I'm actually pretty good at the game)

I played the demo for that and I didn't get all the excitement over that game. :-/

That said, I finished Mass Effect 2 last night and I must say that it's final hour is among the finest I have ever experienced in a videogame.

11 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:36:47pm

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger:

12 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:37:00pm

They haven't made a great computer game since "American McGee's Alice" and AVP I & II.

13 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:37:26pm

re: #10 JasonA

I played the demo for that and I didn't get all the excitement over that game. :-/

That said, I finished Mass Effect 2 last night and I must say that it's final hour is among the finest I have ever experienced in a videogame.

Ehh... Left 4 Dead 2 excels at what it sets out to do, ruin friendships and let you realize just how stupid many people on the internet are....

14 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:38:31pm

re: #12 mracb

They haven't made a great computer game since "American McGee's Alice" and AVP I & II.

Bioshock.

15 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:39:46pm

re: #11 Charles

I don't know how to respond to that, I am laughing but I'm not sure I should.

16 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:41:31pm
17 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:41:48pm

re: #14 jamesfirecat

Bioshock.

Marathon.

18 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:42:14pm

re: #11 Charles

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger:


[Video]

Six animals that just don't give a F#@k

19 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:44:51pm

My Favorite Song by John is Gravity

20 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:46:33pm

re: #11 Charles

This was fucking brilliant!

21 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:46:39pm

re: #11 Charles

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger:


[Video]

Stalkers are just as nasty, but they don't have any bite to back it up.

22 freetoken  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:46:56pm

re: #11 Charles

That was great.

23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:49:15pm

So....I take it this isn't one of those songs that is meant to be pathetic, like The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald or Cat's in the Cradle?

Just asking.

24 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:50:08pm

And, for those who slept through their English classes, I meant "evoking feelings of pathos in the listener."

25 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:50:15pm

Who just got into the Dawn of War 2: Retribution Beta?

This guy.

26 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:51:03pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who just got into the Dawn of War 2: Retribution Beta?

This guy.

You bastard!

*scurries off to Google whatever the hell that is...*

27 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:51:52pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

Stalkers are just as nasty, but they don't have any bite to back it up.

All they have is bile.

28 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:51:59pm

re: #26 JasonA

You bastard!

*scurries off to Google whatever the hell that is...*

Ah. Warhammer. Of course.

29 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:52:12pm

Honey Badger don't give a shit should be a new meme.

30 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:53:56pm

re: #28 JasonA

Ah. Warhammer. Of course.

I'm nothing if not consistent.

31 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:54:36pm

Bob Marley mellows...

32 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:55:00pm

I'm out guys...

Got a big day tomorrow and a cute girl to cuddle with :)

33 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:55:23pm

re: #31 Floral Giraffe

[Video]

Bob Marley mellows...

Indeed! You are the best Floral!

34 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:55:37pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who just got into the Dawn of War 2: Retribution Beta?

This guy.

I'm sticking with minecraft until Portal 2 comes out.

35 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 6:58:57pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Honey Badger don't give a shit should be a new meme.

It is a great tag name.

36 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:00:10pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I'm sticking with minecraft until Portal 2 comes out.

They forced my hand by making the Imperial Guard a playable faction.

37 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:01:48pm

re: #35 prairiefire

It is a great tag name.

"Hey man, I got tickets to that concert next week."

"HONEY BADGER DON'T GIVE A SHIT!"

"...okay."

38 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:01:50pm

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They forced my hand by making the Imperial Guard a playable faction.

Sadly I don't believe you'll be able to build a Ciaphas Cain unit, or an Ibram Gaunt one....

39 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:03:10pm

re: #38 jamesfirecat

Sadly I don't believe you'll be able to build a Ciaphas Cain unit, or an Ibram Gaunt one...

Lord Commissar is a playable character for the Multiplayer. The campaign is still locked down for now.

40 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:03:29pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Hey man, I got tickets to that concert next week."

"HONEY BADGER DON'T GIVE A SHIT!"

"...okay."

"Mom, I don't like this pizza." "HONEY BADGER DON'T GIVE A SHIT!"

41 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:05:07pm

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lord Commissar is a playable character for the Multiplayer. The campaign is still locked down for now.

So which battle cry do you prefer?

"For Tanith and the Emperor" or "Troops, prepare to retreat backwards!"

42 abbyadams  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:07:23pm

If this has been posted, I apologize. But...WHAT THE HELL.
Bill to repeal child labor laws introduced in Missouri?

Please tell me this is the Onion, or I'm missing facts, or don't "get" something. Please.

43 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:08:40pm

re: #41 jamesfirecat

So which battle cry do you prefer?

"For Tanith and the Emperor" or "Troops, prepare to retreat backwards!"

HONEY BADGER DON'T GIVE A SHIT!"

44 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:08:46pm

re: #41 jamesfirecat

So which battle cry do you prefer?

"For Tanith and the Emperor" or "Troops, prepare to retreat backwards!"

Not a big WH 40K fan here, but some of my gaming group are big Battlefleet Gothic fans.

45 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:09:09pm

re: #41 jamesfirecat

So which battle cry do you prefer?

"For Tanith and the Emperor" or "Troops, prepare to retreat backwards!"

"Who told you to die? Keep fighting!"

46 abbyadams  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:09:14pm

Sorry. This is supposed to be an insanity BREAK, not "place to introduce new insanity."

Just...I am so pissed right now.

47 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:10:06pm

re: #42 abbyadams

If this has been posted, I apologize. But...WHAT THE HELL.
Bill to repeal child labor laws introduced in Missouri?

Please tell me this is the Onion, or I'm missing facts, or don't "get" something. Please.

I believe Mr. Abraham Simpson speaks for all us regarding this issue...

48 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:10:27pm

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Who told you to die? Keep fighting!"

So the Zap Brannigan approach?
"You're a brave robot, son. But when I'm in command every mission's a suicide mission. "

49 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:10:51pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

You know how I feel, Sir!
*smooch*

50 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:11:19pm

re: #48 Varek Raith

So the Zap Brannigan approach?
"You're a brave robot, son. But when I'm in command every mission's a suicide mission. "

"Stop exploding, you cowards!"

51 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:13:25pm

My favorite;

Zap Brannigan: What the hell is that thing?
Kif: It appears to be the mothership.
Zap Brannigan: Then what did we just blow up?
Kif: The Hubble Telescope.

52 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:14:14pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

My favorite;

Zap Brannigan: What the hell is that thing?
Kif: It appears to be the mothership.
Zap Brannigan: Then what did we just blow up?
Kif: The Hubble Telescope.

Have the boy put out my shorts.
The boy, sir?
You. You put out my shorts.

53 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:14:45pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

My favorite;

Zap Brannigan: What the hell is that thing?
Kif: It appears to be the mothership.
Zap Brannigan: Then what did we just blow up?
Kif: The Hubble Telescope.

Or my favorite: "Kif, prepare to take the blame!"

54 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:14:54pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

My favorite;

Zap Brannigan: What the hell is that thing?
Kif: It appears to be the mothership.
Zap Brannigan: Then what did we just blow up?
Kif: The Hubble Telescope.

"What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold, power, or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"

55 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:15:13pm

re: #3 jeckman

Yes, you are...keeping your (presumed) sock under wraps for almost four years, only to crash-and-burn with its first post on a music thread.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

56 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:15:57pm

"The alien mothership is in orbit here. If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

57 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:16:21pm

I'm becoming overwhelmed with the urge to rearrange my shop. I spend 90% of my time up here and I haven't moved things around for 5 years or so. I need some variety and it's almost time for spring cleaning,

58 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:18:11pm

"Yes, comets! The icebergs of the sky, by jackknifing from one to the next at breakneck speed, we might just get some kinda gravity boost.....Or something."

59 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:20:08pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I'm becoming overwhelmed with the urge to rearrange my shop. I spend 90% of my time up here and I haven't moved things around for 5 years or so. I need some variety and it's almost time for spring cleaning,

I just got home from job #2 of the day and am trying to decide if I should just bail on it all and go get Japanese. (and Sake) hmmm.

60 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:20:57pm

So, how many Karma points do I need to get a toaster?
I could break 21,300 tonight.
Is that toaster worthy?
LOL

61 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:21:23pm

re: #59 Stanley Sea

Chinese delivery?

62 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:21:45pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

"Yes, comets! The icebergs of the sky, by jackknifing from one to the next at breakneck speed, we might just get some kinda gravity boost...Or something."

Zap is an excellent bit character, and the perfect comic buffoon.

63 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:22:10pm

re: #61 Floral Giraffe

Chinese delivery?

Nah, it's 2 blocks away. I just grabbed my purse. See ya'll later!

64 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:22:24pm

Evening lizards!

65 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:23:06pm

re: #63 Stanley Sea

Nah, it's 2 blocks away. I just grabbed my purse. See ya'll later!

Psst.
It's a handbag.
A purse is something you do with your lips!
( Old buyer's joke!)

66 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:24:45pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

Zap is an excellent bit character, and the perfect comic buffoon.

Having the commentary for the first four seasons (and four movies) I love the way that they describe how they came up with Zap "What if Shatner, not Shatner playing Kirk, but Shatner himself was the guy controlling the Enterprise?"

67 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:25:43pm

re: #65 Floral Giraffe

Psst.
It's a handbag.
A purse is something you do with your lips!
( Old buyer's joke!)

How are you, Floral?

68 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:26:31pm
69 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:27:30pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

Great!
Hope you are well?

70 avanti  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:27:40pm

Up is down and left is right recently. I now see the right bitching about Obama's threatened veto of the proposed GOP defenses cuts of 15 billion even after Gates said 9 billion was the limit without hurting readiness. When did the right decide cutting defense was great idea ?

71 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:28:15pm

re: #70 avanti

Up is down and left is right recently. I now see the right bitching about Obama's threatened veto of the proposed GOP defenses cuts of 15 billion even after Gates said 9 billion was the limit without hurting readiness. When did the right decide cutting defense was great idea ?

LAUP NOR!

72 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:29:41pm

re: #69 Floral Giraffe

Great!
Hope you are well?

Not entirely. I've got high blood pressure. Started on meds today and I should be fine. Still, got some vertigo, though.

73 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:30:13pm

re: #70 avanti

Up is down and left is right recently. I now see the right bitching about Obama's threatened veto of the proposed GOP defenses cuts of 15 billion even after Gates said 9 billion was the limit without hurting readiness. When did the right decide cutting defense was great idea ?

Where is this?

74 Varek Raith  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:30:41pm

Zap Brannigan: Rock breaks scissors. But paper covers rock, and scissors cut paper! Kif, we have a conundrum.
Kif : Ugh.
Zap Brannigan: Search them for paper... and bring me a rock.

75 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:30:52pm

re: #71 jamesfirecat

LAUP NOR!

I've been out of the loop. Is he in the news again?

76 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:32:24pm

re: #75 NJDhockeyfan

I've been out of the loop. Is he in the news again?

Not directly, but his isolationist stance would explain why Republicans are suddenly so fired up about cutting the pentagons budget...

77 avanti  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:33:13pm

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

Where is this?

Hot Air has a thread up about it, odd.

"Obama to veto budget if defense is cut"

78 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:34:01pm

re: #76 jamesfirecat

Not directly, but his isolationist stance would explain why Republicans are suddenly so fired up about cutting the pentagons budget...

Well this didn't take long to find....from The Hill...

Ron Paul: Tea Party activists similar to Egyptian protesters

The crazy uncle is still crazy as ever.

79 Kragar  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:34:16pm

re: #77 avanti

Hot Air has a thread up about it, odd.

"Obama to veto budget if defense is cut"

It will be fun to watch them bitch about Obama not cutting the defense budget.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:34:56pm

re: #42 abbyadams

If this has been posted, I apologize. But...WHAT THE HELL.
Bill to repeal child labor laws introduced in Missouri?

Please tell me this is the Onion, or I'm missing facts, or don't "get" something. Please.

I sometimes realize that there are people out there who are dedicated their entirely professional lives to attempting to repeal the early twentieth century.

It's disgusting, of course, but it's also sort of fascinating to watch.

81 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:35:35pm

I still listen to Wight Wing Wadio just cuz there's nothing else on.

It's all about bitching and obsessing over every little thing Obama does or doesn't do, and evil liberals. Everything.

It's long ago changed from 'talk radio' to bitch and rant radio.

So disappointed.

82 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:35:49pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Do what the Dr. tell you. They are interested in making you better.

83 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:37:14pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

I sometimes realize that there are people out there who are dedicated their entirely professional lives to attempting to repeal the early twentieth century.

Srsly. I'm repeatedly shocked. Did I never notice it before or did The Crazy come back just like bell bottoms did?

84 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:37:37pm

re: #81 BigPapa

I still listen to Wight Wing Wadio just cuz there's nothing else on.

It's all about bitching and obsessing over every little thing Obama does or doesn't do, and evil liberals. Everything.

It's long ago changed from 'talk radio' to bitch and rant radio.

So disappointed.

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

85 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:38:21pm

re: #77 avanti

Hot Air has a thread up about it, odd.

"Obama to veto budget if defense is cut"

Thanks.

86 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:39:03pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

Because we don't need our misconceptions reinforced.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:39:46pm

re: #83 BigPapa

Srsly. I'm repeatedly shocked. Did I never notice it before or did The Crazy come back just like bell bottoms did?

I have no idea. I don't recall it being this bad, but maybe it was and I wasn't paying attention. It seemed like up until just recently everyone was agreed that child labor laws were GOOD.

88 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:39:53pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

I think it's a complex demographic thing. I recall before Rush talk radio was in off hours and there were many liberals. I've wondered myself.

89 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:39:55pm

re: #78 NJDhockeyfan

Well this didn't take long to find...from The Hill...

Ron Paul: Tea Party activists similar to Egyptian protesters

The crazy uncle is still crazy as ever.

So following Glenn Beck's logic, that would mean that Tea Party is...

THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD!!!111 OMG!!1

/Smack two loonies into each other and see what results

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:40:38pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

Mostly because they're boring as hell.

Liberals seem to do better on TV. I don't know why.

91 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:40:55pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?


Because in American culture ugliness sells. Kinda like the adult version of Mean Girls.

92 McSpiff  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:41:18pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

A Toonie?

93 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:41:46pm

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Mostly because they're boring as hell.

Liberals seem to do better on TV. I don't know why.

Because, you can't make silly faces at people over the radio, aren't I right Jon?

94 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:41:53pm

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Mostly because they're boring as hell.

Liberals seem to do better on TV. I don't know why.

I think Maddow could to radio, but she's pretty good in her show and probably would not leave that.

Air America failed, I don't know why.

95 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:42:33pm

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Mostly because they're boring as hell.

Liberals seem to do better on TV. I don't know why.

I agree somewhat. They appear pretty angry most of the time on the radio and that turns off people.

96 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:42:54pm

re: #94 BigPapa

I think Maddow could to radio, but she's pretty good in her show and probably would not leave that.

Air America failed, I don't know why.

I could never pick it up in my area. I never ever heard it.

97 avanti  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:42:58pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It will be fun to watch them bitch about Obama not cutting the defense budget.

No one has the balls on either side to cut entitlements, and the Tea Party freshmen want 100 billion in cuts, so defense is the only thing left. IMHO, it will not go over well since they won't even cut the unneeded jet engine that the Air Force does not want and has tried to kill several times.

98 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:43:19pm

re: #94 BigPapa

Air America failed, I don't know why.

Because it sucked.

99 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:44:05pm

re: #97 avanti

No one has the balls on either side to cut entitlements, and the Tea Party freshmen want 100 billion in cuts, so defense is the only thing left. IMHO, it will not go over well since they won't even cut the unneeded jet engine that the Air Force does not want and has tried to kill several times.

You think nobody has the balls to cut entitlements?

You want to see an area where no one really has an testicular fortitude on either side?


Nobody has the balls to say we need to raise taxes....

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:44:06pm

re: #94 BigPapa

I think Maddow could to radio, but she's pretty good in her show and probably would not leave that.

Air America failed, I don't know why.

It didn't get any help from me, but then again, I never actually listen to the radio.

101 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:44:30pm

re: #94 BigPapa

I think Maddow could to radio, but she's pretty good in her show and probably would not leave that.

Air America failed, I don't know why.

Air America failed because its shows were lame and hostile. Too often it did nothing but spew BDS, Bad Craziness is sane-person repellent.

102 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:44:33pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

Because NPR > talk radio. And This American Life > anything on the AM dial.

Talk radio is boring. I don't have any interest in listening to some douche tell me what to think about an issue while trying to sell me gold or non-hybrid seeds or aluminum siding. Besides, The only good thing to come out of left wing talk radio was Rachel Maddow, and I can see her on the teevee now.

103 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:45:25pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

"Car Talk" and "All Things Considered" sucked up the demographic.

104 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:45:27pm

BBAIB

105 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:46:47pm

5re: #101 Dark_Falcon

Air America failed because its shows were lame and hostile. Too often it did nothing but spew BDS, Bad Craziness is sane-person repellent.

And Rush is pussycat

106 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:46:48pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

It didn't get any help from me, but then again, I never actually listen to the radio.

Most of those radio shows are still on but you have to get XM/Sirius radio to listen to them.

107 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:47:08pm

I find it interesting that I've come full circle.

Growing up in a left household listening to incessant ranting about Republicans and Evil Reagan first turned me off. Don't know why, it just did.

Found alternate viewpoints that seemed to resonate but got sick of Rush hammering on Clinton for years over every little damn thing.

The the Bush Derangement Syndrome went to new levels of turn off.

But not to be outdone, Obama Derangement has reached now lows of craven moronificaition and mainstreamed it. Now the Tea Party craziness is doubling down on top of that.

108 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:47:23pm

re: #102 Lidane

Because NPR > talk radio. And This American Life > anything on the AM dial.

Talk radio is boring. I don't have any interest in listening to some douche tell me what to think about an issue while trying to sell me gold or non-hybrid seeds or aluminum siding. Besides, The only good thing to come out of left wing talk radio was Rachel Maddow, and I can see her on the teevee now.

So basically you had better things to do with your life. :) I think the success of right wing radio and it's angry reactionary crap says more about the demographic that listens to it then about the radio itself.

109 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:47:27pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

"Car Talk" and "All Things Considered" sucked up the demographic.

Beep! Of course both of those shows aren't really "left wing".

110 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:47:33pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

This is a really good question. I wonder that too.

111 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:48:14pm

re: #105 stanley sea

5

And Rush is pussycat

Nope, he's sane-person repellent, too.

112 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:48:23pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

"Car Talk" and "All Things Considered" sucked up the demographic.

Car Talk is the best thing NPR has ever had. I love that show.

113 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:49:21pm

re: #112 NJDhockeyfan

Car Talk is the best thing NPR has ever had. I love that show.

My mom agrees with you...

114 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:49:49pm

re: #113 jamesfirecat

My mom agrees with you...

:)

115 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:50:46pm

re: #113 jamesfirecat

My mom agrees with you...

"Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me?" That's a good radio show.

116 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:50:56pm

re: #109 Gus 802

Beep! Of course both of those shows aren't really "left wing".

Anyone who drives an MGTD is a dangerous left-wing elitist.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

117 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:51:47pm

re: #108 Jadespring

So basically you had better things to do with your life. :)

Yeah, pretty much. :)

I think the success of right wing radio and it's angry reactionary crap says more about the demographic that listens to it then about the radio itself.

The only people I know who listen to talk radio all damn day are cabbies, but I can see why. If I was stuck in my car driving around all day, I'd probably have to have another voice in the car that wasn't mine, just to keep me sane.

118 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:52:01pm

re: #112 NJDhockeyfan

Car Talk is the best thing NPR has ever had. I love that show.

Is that the show with Click and Clack?

119 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:52:25pm

re: #115 prairiefire

"Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me?" That's a good radio show.

I'd love to have Carl Cassel on my phone!!!

120 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:52:36pm

On the subject of talk radio, for me it's I really don't need a takling head to rag on conservatives. When I listen to people talk on the radio, I like hearing intelligent discussion. Not to sound like a stereotypical liberal but I really like NPR when they have discussions about new books. When my parents, younger brother, and myself were coming back on a long drive, they had an excellent segment on a guy who wrote a book about the history of the fur trade in North America. That kinda stuff interests me more than some guy telling me that conservatives/republicans are bad and want to destroy my family. I guess for me it's a personality issue. I never got in to Air America for the record either. I listened once out of morbid curiousity but was meh on it overall.

121 avanti  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:53:13pm

re: #99 jamesfirecat

You think nobody has the balls to cut entitlements?

You want to see an area where no one really has an testicular fortitude on either side?

Nobody has the balls to say we need to raise taxes...

Hell no, they won't even allow cuts to the tax money that goes to the oil industry, or get rid of the mortgage interest rate deduction for homes 2 to 12. After all, it'll cost jobs if I don't build my forth vacation home./

122 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:53:21pm

re: #102 Lidane

Because NPR > talk radio. And This American Life > anything on the AM dial.

Talk radio is boring. I don't have any interest in listening to some douche tell me what to think about an issue while trying to sell me gold or non-hybrid seeds or aluminum siding. Besides, The only good thing to come out of left wing talk radio was Rachel Maddow, and I can see her on the teevee now.

This American Life is seriously some of the best journalism I have ever encountered, in any form. It's a fascinating and extremely informative journey of the mind, every single episode.

123 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:54:47pm

re: #118 mracb

Is that the show with Click and Clack?

Yup...aka the Tappet Brothers!

124 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:55:09pm

re: #120 HappyWarrior

On the subject of talk radio, for me it's I really don't need a takling head to rag on conservatives. When I listen to people talk on the radio, I like hearing intelligent discussion. Not to sound like a stereotypical liberal but I really like NPR when they have discussions about new books. When my parents, younger brother, and myself were coming back on a long drive, they had an excellent segment on a guy who wrote a book about the history of the fur trade in North America. That kinda stuff interests me more than some guy telling me that conservatives/republicans are bad and want to destroy my family. I guess for me it's a personality issue. I never got in to Air America for the record either. I listened once out of morbid curiousity but was meh on it overall.

Or getting the left wing version of Rush Limbaugh? I don't like that type of talk radio either. Neither left, right or center. I just don't listen to any radio anymore. The only shows I ever listened to faithfully was "Fresh Air" and "Prairie Home Companion." But that was years ago -- back in my "FM days".

125 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:55:40pm

On the issue of why left wing radio doesn't take off more... here's a thought, do you guys think that maybe it could be a city thing? I mean yes we're gonna go a bit broad brush here, but people who lean left tend to be more urban.

Because they're more urban they have access to a lot more public transportation than more rural people who lean right.

So when I do my hour long commute, I have maybe 10 min car ride to the metro when I might be able to hear something, then 50 min of riding the metro /walking to the office when obviously I couldn't listen to the metro.... but if I lived somewhere without metro where I had to ride a car all the way to work, there would be a lot more time when I could be listening to the radio which was in line with my particular political tastes....

126 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:56:10pm

re: #123 NJDhockeyfan

Yup...aka the Tappet Brothers!

I do love those guys.

127 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:57:05pm

re: #122 Fozzie Bear

This American Life is seriously some of the best journalism I have ever encountered, in any form. It's a fascinating and extremely informative journey of the mind, every single episode.

TAL is awesome. Ira Glass tells some amazing stories. Plus, he's got a great voice. Very smooth. They show the TV version of it on Current TV. I caught some of it the other night.

The best part is, my boyfriend had never heard of TAL or Current TV, but he started getting into it, especially when we saw a promo for Bar Karma. It sounds like a cool idea for a show.

128 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:57:25pm

re: #122 Fozzie Bear

This American Life is seriously some of the best journalism I have ever encountered, in any form. It's a fascinating and extremely informative journey of the mind, every single episode.

I have tried to listen to NPR many times but the interviews drove me nuts the way the microphone is placed so close to their mouths. I can hear the phlem splashing around in their mouths when they are talking and it drove me nuts. After a while I just turned it off. I'll stick with Car Talk.

129 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:57:44pm

re: #124 Gus 802

Not a talk radio fan either. I don't drive, and when I'm on the train I'd rather read a book.

130 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:58:58pm

re: #120 HappyWarrior

When I listen to people talk on the radio, I like hearing intelligent discussion. Not to sound like a stereotypical liberal but I really like NPR when they have discussions about new books. When my parents, younger brother, and myself were coming back on a long drive, they had an excellent segment on a guy who wrote a book about the history of the fur trade in North America. That kinda stuff interests me more than some guy telling me that conservatives/republicans are bad and want to destroy my family.

Pretty much. I can't listen to people whining and bitching on the radio. It's boring. If I decide to listen to people talking on the radio, or in the podcasts I download, I want something intelligent that will teach me something, or engage me, or entertain me.

Talk radio doesn't do any of that. NPR does.

131 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:58:59pm

re: #124 Gus 802

Or getting the left wing version of Rush Limbaugh? I don't like that type of talk radio either. Neither left, right or center. I just don't listen to any radio anymore. The only shows I ever listened to faithfully was "Fresh Air" and "Prairie Home Companion." But that was years ago -- back in my "FM days".

Oh man, if we had a left wing Limbaugh, I'd hate it. I realize there is a part of the left who wants us to have a response to him. I hardly listen to radio myself much either. James below brings up an interesting point about liberals tending to be more urbanized than conservatives and thus using public transportation more. I'd add another coronary and add the relative youth of liberals as another part. When I go out I have four things on me: my watch, my cell phone, my keys with bottle opener, and my iPod. I'd rather listen to music over someone talking and if I am going to listen to someone talk: It's gotta be sports related or history related or humor.

132 prairiefire  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:59:25pm

re: #120 HappyWarrior

Embrace your inner nerd.

133 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:59:27pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

Not a talk radio fan either. I don't drive, and when I'm on the train I'd rather read a book.

Some people can't read on trains or buses. Something about the shaking. I tried the Howard Stern show thing back in the late 80s. After about a month I just got tired of the same old shtick. Drove me nut. Well, not literally.

134 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 7:59:28pm

I listen to NPR religiously. Long drives daily here. I swear I'm smarter when I get out, I actually like marketplace - stuff I'd never search out.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:01:18pm

Here is a feel-good story in the news :)

B-17 veteran back in air aboard a WWII-era bomber

A day before his final mission aboard a B-17 bomber in World War II, Norbert Swierz sat down on his bunk and jotted down a poem for his mother back in Michigan.

"I go so gladly to my fate, whatever it may be. That I would have you shed no tears for me," wrote the 23-year-old gunner, who had already survived the ditching of his first B-17 in the North Sea that summer of 1943. "Some men must die, that others must be free. And only God can say whom these shall be."

The next day, Sept. 6, 1943, "Skeets" Swierz and the rest of the crew of the B-17 nicknamed "Bomb Boogie" took off from their base in England, but didn't make it back. Shot down and taken prisoner, Swierz would spend the rest of his war days in a POW camp and not fly in another B-17 for close to 70 years.

The opportunity came again last Friday, and Swierz didn't hesitate. He strapped himself into a restored Flying Fortress and held on as the four droning engines lifted the vintage bomber off a central Florida airstrip into heavy cloud cover.

"Wonderful," the grinning 90-year-old man kept saying during the 45-minute flight. "Wonderful."

136 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:02:08pm

re: #132 prairiefire

Embrace your inner nerd.

Inner nerd? Come on you're taking to a kid who when he was at the library got the baseball encyclopedia all the time. My parents hated me for that since the damn thing was so heavy.

137 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:03:41pm

OK Stuff like this...

Historian Stephen E. Ambrose : NPR

138 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:04:20pm

I think it's a personality thing really. I remember my Dad who is similar to me in political ideology listening to Howard Stern. Heck, one of my first nicknames was "Baba Booey." Can also remember listening to Adam Carolla and Dr. DRew a lot on Loveline on drives back from Baltimore after baseball games too.

139 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:04:29pm

re: #11 Charles

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger:


[Video]

LOL have you seen Randall's Daffy Jesus Lizard? hehe

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

140 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:04:33pm

re: #133 Gus 802

Some people can't read on trains or buses. Something about the shaking. I tried the Howard Stern show thing back in the late 80s. After about a month I just got tired of the same old shtick. Drove me nut. Well, not literally.

Howard Stern's radio show on WNBC was funny as hell. After he went to FM radio and then Sirius his shtick has gotten boring. I haven't listened to him in many years.

141 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:04:45pm

You guys got me checking my NPR app for the audio programs and I wound up getting distracted by this story about 70-90% of Afghan soldiers cannot read. How could we have trained them for the last 8 year and not thought to teach them to read?

[Link: www.npr.org...]

142 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:05:55pm

re: #140 NJDhockeyfan

Howard Stern's radio show on WNBC was funny as hell. After he went to FM radio and then Sirius his shtick has gotten boring. I haven't listened to him in many years.

I agree. He was funnier back then. He was hilarious when he'd make fun out of Imus with his cowboy outfit and such.

143 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:07:10pm

Remember it was bob Simon (?) from NPR that got rand Paul to verbally go against the civil rights act. All things considered.

And the GOP wants to death panel Elmo.....

144 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:08:18pm

re: #134 stanley sea

I listen to NPR religiously. Long drives daily here. I swear I'm smarter when I get out, I actually like marketplace - stuff I'd never search out.

You HAVE to listen to something on a long commute!

145 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:08:35pm

re: #142 Gus 802

I agree. He was funnier back then. He was hilarious when he'd make fun out of Imus with his cowboy outfit and such.

So was his porn movie previews. How he got away with that on AM radio is beyond me. I think punching his boss live on the air might have been one of the reasons he left that station.

146 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:08:46pm

Ron Paul!
Barack Obama plays hardball with veto threat


“The bill proposes cuts that would sharply undermine core government functions and investments key to economic growth and job creation and would reduce funding for the Department of Defense to a level that would leave the department without the resources and flexibility needed to meet vital military requirements,” the statement read. “If the president is presented with a bill that undermines critical priorities or national security through funding levels or restrictions, contains earmarks or curtails the drivers of long-term economic growth and job creation while continuing to burden future generations with deficits, the president will veto the bill.”


lol@wingnuts

147 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:09:28pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

Here is a feel-good story in the news :)

B-17 veteran back in air aboard a WWII-era bomber

Great stuff. The B-17 was a true war-winner and the men who served aboard them were true heroes who suffered highers casualty rates than paratroopers or tank crews.

148 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:11:04pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul!
Barack Obama plays hardball with veto threat


lol@wingnuts

Hopefully, this give Boener enough room to walk any defense cuts back and gets some of the freshmen to see the situation as it is. Some are lost causes, but not all of them.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:11:07pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Great stuff. The B-17 was a true war-winner and the men who served aboard them were true heroes who suffered highers casualty rates than paratroopers or tank crews.

I think Tom Landry (one of my heroes) flew a B-17 during WWII, didn't he?

150 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:12:18pm

re: #149 NJDhockeyfan

I think Tom Landry (one of my heroes) flew a B-17 during WWII, didn't he?

All I can say for certain is that my grand father on my mother's side did....

151 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:13:16pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

All I can say for certain is that my grand father on my mother's side did...

Very cool! That's some awesome family history you have there.

152 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:13:47pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Hopefully, this give Boener enough room to walk any defense cuts back and gets some of the freshmen to see the situation as it is. Some are lost causes, but not all of them.

It's tough to predict what these new Tea Party Republicans are going to do. They are going to have to play ball for the party to survive but I'm not sure if they have that much sense.

153 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:13:50pm

Well if I'm to have had vertigo, I'm gonna post this:

154 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:14:24pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul!
Barack Obama plays hardball with veto threat

lol@wingnuts

I suspect the lot of them know they'll get vetoed. It's a nod to their constituents so they can say the evil socialists keep wanting to spend your money. (But you knew that heh)

155 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:15:02pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Great stuff. The B-17 was a true war-winner and the men who served aboard them were true heroes who suffered highers casualty rates than paratroopers or tank crews.

B-24s!

156 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:15:13pm

THose pilots were brave sobs. No Air Force history in my family that I know of but man the courage of those guys. One of my favorite movies of all time involves airmen pows (Great Escape).

157 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:16:34pm

re: #150 jamesfirecat

All I can say for certain is that my grand father on my mother's side did...

My mother's father was a bombardier on a B-25 out of New Guinea in WWII. He got shot down twice, and the second time the Japanese shot down the flying boat that had rescued him. Nasty times, but he did his job and helped win the war.

158 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:16:42pm

re: #155 Gus 802

No!
The b-52's!

159 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:16:44pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

THose pilots were brave sobs. No Air Force history in my family that I know of but man the courage of those guys. One of my favorite movies of all time involves airmen pows (Great Escape).

You mean like flying straight into a wall of flak? Can't run, can't hide. Can't turn around and leave. Straight ahead on bearing.

160 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:17:13pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Hopefully, this give Boener enough room to walk any defense cuts back and gets some of the freshmen to see the situation as it is. Some are lost causes, but not all of them.

Wait, The Republicans are suggesting a 3% Defense cut and Obama thinks it is too much? This guy is to the right of Ronald Reagan. If you really want to get serious about the budget, whack 25% off.

161 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:17:19pm

re: #151 NJDhockeyfan

Very cool! That's some awesome family history you have there.

Yeah, we went to visit an airplane graveyard/museum in Arizona and because she was an dues paid member of the family of the flight group that used to operate out of that base (yeah my mom is from Arizona originally) she was allowed to walk around inside the plane/cockpit of a B-17 they had there....

162 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:17:26pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

THose pilots were brave sobs. No Air Force history in my family that I know of but man the courage of those guys. One of my favorite movies of all time involves airmen pows (Great Escape).

I do have one military pilot in my family history, a German fighter pilot in WWI. I don't know his name and don't know where to start looking for him.

163 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:18:49pm

re: #159 Gus 802

You mean like flying straight into a wall of flak? Can't run, can't hide. Can't turn around and leave. Straight ahead on bearing.

Yeah, I would be petrified. Obama when he honored H.W Bush today I believe talked about his bravery as a pilot. I believe he was 18 years old when he became one. Maybe it's because I am getting older but the thought of a kid straight out of high school flying a plane in a warzone amazes me.

164 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:19:18pm

Probably worse flying into Normandy in a Dakota. Unarmed. Whew.

165 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:20:56pm

re: #160 mracb

Wait, The Republicans are suggesting a 3% Defense cut and Obama thinks it is too much? This guy is to the right of Ronald Reagan. If you really want to get serious about the budget, whack 25% off.

We'll save a ton of money when we get those kids to make the bullets for us...

166 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:22:33pm

re: #165 JasonA

We'll save a ton of money when we get those kids to make the bullets for us...

And with their small hands they can get back into those tight places on the stamping and milling machines.

167 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:22:56pm

re: #165 JasonA

We'll save a ton of money when we get those kids to make the bullets for us...

Listen Spielbergo... Schindler and I are like tow peas in a pod, we both made shells for the nazis, but mine worked damn it!

==Montgomery Burns....

168 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:23:36pm

re: #160 mracb

Wait, The Republicans are suggesting a 3% Defense cut and Obama thinks it is too much? This guy is to the right of Ronald Reagan. If you really want to get serious about the budget, whack 25% off.

Which guy?

169 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:24:56pm

re: #167 jamesfirecat

Listen Spielbergo... Schindler and I are like tow peas in a pod, we both made shells for the nazis, but mine worked damn it!

==Montgomery Burns...

The funny thing is that other episodes of the Simpsons have Burns fighting the Nazis alongside Abe Simpson.

170 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:25:04pm

re: #167 jamesfirecat

Listen Spielbergo... Schindler and I are like tow peas in a pod, we both made shells for the nazis, but mine worked damn it!

==Montgomery Burns...

171 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:25:22pm

I actually think this budget debate is going to be interesting. I think Obama is playing the long game negotiation stance. And the GOP just has to freak out here and there to lose their credibility. Already happening.

We'll see, but it's only just begun. (Although, don't they only have a week to figure this out before shut down? I might be wrong on this, haven't been reading Ezra Klein like I should - he analyzes beyond compare)

172 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:25:37pm

re: #168 NJDhockeyfan

Which guy?

The Socialist one.

173 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:25:56pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

The funny thing is that other episodes of the Simpsons have Burns fighting the Nazis alongside Abe Simpson.

He could have been fighting the nazis while his factory was making shells for them back home after he got drafted....

174 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:26:04pm

re: #162 NJDhockeyfan

I do have one military pilot in my family history, a German fighter pilot in WWI. I don't know his name and don't know where to start looking for him.

Try ancestry.com. They're fairly good. You might even find his service record.

175 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:26:20pm

re: #172 Stanley Sea

The Socialist one.

Ha!

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:26:42pm

re: #160 mracb

Wait, The Republicans are suggesting a 3% Defense cut and Obama thinks it is too much? This guy is to the right of Ronald Reagan. If you really want to get serious about the budget, whack 25% off.

Wait, the Republicans are suggesting a DEFENSE CUT?

The world is truly turning upside down.

177 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:27:20pm

re: #171 Stanley Sea

I actually think this budget debate is going to be interesting. I think Obama is playing the long game negotiation stance. And the GOP just has to freak out here and there to lose their credibility. Already happening.

We'll see, but it's only just begun. (Although, don't they only have a week to figure this out before shut down? I might be wrong on this, haven't been reading Ezra Klein like I should - he analyzes beyond compare)

Bill is needed by 4 Mar to avoid shutdown. A continuing resolution can evade the issue, but makes later cuts more drastic.

178 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:28:06pm

re: #171 Stanley Sea

I actually think this budget debate is going to be interesting. I think Obama is playing the long game negotiation stance. And the GOP just has to freak out here and there to lose their credibility. Already happening.

We'll see, but it's only just begun. (Although, don't they only have a week to figure this out before shut down? I might be wrong on this, haven't been reading Ezra Klein like I should - he analyzes beyond compare)

I disagree. I think there will be a compromise. Reports of the GOP's demise are exaggerated.

179 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:28:28pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

Try ancestry.com. They're fairly good. You might even find his service record.

I looked already. I need to get some info from my father. The last time I asked him about it he said he didn't know about that uncle or the other one who was killed in Poland by the Nazis. My grandmother told me about them before she passed away.

180 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:30:33pm

Who follows "The View from your Window" on The Daily Dish?

Well this weekend's contest was from a hospital room of a soldier. Devastating when you found that out.

Here's the story.

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

This link below is the original contest. If you have a moment, read through. Your brain (and heart) reels when you get to the end and realize.

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

181 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:30:52pm

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. I think there will be a compromise. Reports of the GOP's demise are exaggerated.

"Mr. Burns can't stand talking with his mother. He'll never forgive her for the affair she had with president Taft."

182 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:31:16pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

"Mr. Burns can't stand talking with his mother. He'll never forgive her for the affair she had with president Taft."

Oops sorry DF, I meant to quote James talking about Mr. Burns.

183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:31:17pm

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. I think there will be a compromise. Reports of the GOP's demise are exaggerated.

We will see e e e.

They are in a rock and a hard place. Compromise, smart actions and TEA TEA TEA.

184 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:33:51pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

I looked already. I need to get some info from my father. The last time I asked him about it he said he didn't know about that uncle or the other one who was killed in Poland by the Nazis. My grandmother told me about them before she passed away.

You should have a last name then. You father's uncle? or great uncle? Ancestry.com is good indeed. Jews are lucky in that regard. The survivors have been writing the history for some 40 odd years. I think they started to compile the books in the 70s, called the Yitzkor books. Most of it is online at the NY Public Library site via Jewishgen.org.

185 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:34:44pm

It's interesting to see what will happen. Will Republicans who support a compromise get challenged? I think the answer is yes but the real question is will they have significance. I have to say I was alarmed when Christine O'Donnell won in Delaware the nomination. It wasn't like Castle was some unknown guy that the establishment picked but rather he had been being elected statewide for years.from what I've been told by people I know from Massachusetts, Scott Brown looks to be in good shape since he's played a smart political game.

186 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:36:57pm

60's night here...

187 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:37:15pm

re: #183 Stanley Sea

We will see e e e.

They are in a rock and a hard place. Compromise, smart actions and TEA TEA TEA.

It's simple: You make the gesture and say "We tried" then make sure to get some cuts elsewhere. Obama will fold on NPR, I think. Then just let your congresscritters know what a shutdown really means for them. Not all will fall into line, but enough will. And its better to break the base's hearts right now, so you have time to win them back later.

188 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:37:23pm

re: #184 marjoriemoon

You should have a last name then. You father's uncle? or great uncle? Ancestry.com is good indeed. Jews are lucky in that regard. The survivors have been writing the history for some 40 odd years. I think they started to compile the books in the 70s, called the Yitzkor books. Most of it is online at the NY Public Library site via Jewishgen.org.

I need to find out her maiden name and her parent's names. I might be able to go far with that. I have a German customer who has studied German WWI history and wants me to give him that uncle's name. He says he has information on every pilot in WWI and I can't wait to read about my uncle. Who knows where this could lead?

189 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:39:23pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

It's simple: You make the gesture and say "We tried" then make sure to get some cuts elsewhere. Obama will fold on NPR, I think. Then just let your congresscritters know what a shutdown really means for them. Not all will fall into line, but enough will. And its better to break the base's hearts right now, so you have time to win them back later.

NPR is the biggest bullshit of the proposal. What a crock, a pandering right wing attack on fucking Elmo and sanity. Gah, it makes me sick that farm subsidies aren't even mentioned and Elmo goes down.

GAH

190 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:39:23pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

It's interesting to see what will happen. Will Republicans who support a compromise get challenged? I think the answer is yes but the real question is will they have significance. I have to say I was alarmed when Christine O'Donnell won in Delaware the nomination. It wasn't like Castle was some unknown guy that the establishment picked but rather he had been being elected statewide for years.from what I've been told by people I know from Massachusetts, Scott Brown looks to be in good shape since he's played a smart political game.

Say what you like about John McCain, but he showed how to win against a primary challenge. He pivoted where he needed to, cut Hayworth apart with well-aimed negative ads, and after winning has gone back to being himself. Ruthless, somewhat cynical, but effective.

191 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:39:37pm

I wish ancestry.com were cheaper. Not exactly the best place on a student budget and unfortunately my parents don't seem as interested as I am in finding some stuff out. My grandfather's cousin did find some interesting stuff out in her resarch though when my grandfather was a kid, he had a different surname than the one that he legally used when he married my grandmother and when my mom and her brother were coming of age. Weird thing is the social security death index works on some of my relatives but not all of them. Like I can find my deceased grandparents as well deceased uncles and such but it's hard for me to find others like their parents who with one exception died after SSN's were issued.

192 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:39:54pm

re: #186 Floral Giraffe

60's night here...

[Video]

First rain in 6 or 7 weeks up north here. so far in 2 days of clouds we have only received 0.10" but we are dur for a good rain tonight and tomorrow. We've only had 9.52" since July of last year when the season rolls over in CA.

193 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:40:10pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Say what you like about John McCain, but he showed how to win against a primary challenge. He pivoted where he needed to, cut Hayworth apart with well-aimed negative ads, and after winning has gone back to being himself. Ruthless, somewhat cynical, but effective.

And here I direct you to the top comment in the top 10. Yes it was about Iraq, but damn if it isn't the same shit.

194 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:40:41pm

oh, never mind. should have clicked the link, lol.

195 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:40:56pm

My sake failed to calm me down. :(

196 sagehen  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:41:34pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Why hasn't any of the the Left Wing Wadio shows succeeded yet?

Because left wingers live in cities, and use mass transit. Talk radio's audience is mostly in their cars.

197 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:42:32pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

It's about $20 MONTH, iirc. Sister has been all over it for a couple of months, doing DAR research, and geneology to recover great great grandpa's speculative investments. It's been a very useful tool.

198 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:42:38pm

re: #188 NJDhockeyfan

I need to find out her maiden name and her parent's names. I might be able to go far with that. I have a German customer who has studied German WWI history and wants me to give him that uncle's name. He says he has information on every pilot in WWI and I can't wait to read about my uncle. Who knows where this could lead?

Oh I love this stuff hehe... It's very cool. I wish you the best of luck.

My dad got his family back to 1776 near the Carpathian mountains in Hungary. And he charted it before the internet! We have the most info on my mother's father's family, but not that far back.

199 recusancy  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:42:41pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Say what you like about John McCain, but he showed how to win against a primary challenge. He pivoted where he needed to, cut Hayworth apart with well-aimed negative ads, and after winning has gone back to being himself. Ruthless, somewhat cynical, but effective.

Effective at what?

200 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:42:45pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Say what you like about John McCain, but he showed how to win against a primary challenge. He pivoted where he needed to, cut Hayworth apart with well-aimed negative ads, and after winning has gone back to being himself. Ruthless, somewhat cynical, but effective.

Yeah I thought it was going to be closer with Hayworth and for the sake of the Senate, I am glad McCain came up on top. And I do agree he's returned to sanity now that he doesn't have to worry about Hayworth anymore. He's been one of the most vocal Republican voices that has been visibly correct on Egypt. Wish he hadn't done his right ward turn but it no doubt saved us from a Senator Hayworth and that would have been insane. Hayworth's insane. I never thought McCain to be. Wrong, yes, an opportunist even but never insane.

201 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:43:14pm

re: #195 Stanley Sea

{{{Stanley Sea}}}
Hope that helped!

202 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:43:47pm

re: #199 recusancy

Effective at what?

At trying to hold back the arc of justice to the very last moment.

That's all John McCain has done since he was relected.

If you disagree, prove me wrong....

203 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:44:30pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

Yeah I thought it was going to be closer with Hayworth and for the sake of the Senate, I am glad McCain came up on top. And I do agree he's returned to sanity now that he doesn't have to worry about Hayworth anymore. He's been one of the most vocal Republican voices that has been visibly correct on Egypt. Wish he hadn't done his right ward turn but it no doubt saved us from a Senator Hayworth and that would have been insane. Hayworth's insane. I never thought McCain to be. Wrong, yes, an opportunist even but never insane.

DADT flip flop. McCain is a piece of pandering blah. Yeah, we're better off without Hayworth, but what the hell does that say?

204 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:44:45pm

re: #196 sagehen

Because left wingers live in cities, and use mass transit. Talk radio's audience is mostly in their cars.

A lot of the far-left customers I have do not have TVs. They listen to the radio at home and/or surf the internet so I will respectfully disagree with you.

205 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:44:48pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

I wish ancestry.com were cheaper. Not exactly the best place on a student budget and unfortunately my parents don't seem as interested as I am in finding some stuff out. My grandfather's cousin did find some interesting stuff out in her resarch though when my grandfather was a kid, he had a different surname than the one that he legally used when he married my grandmother and when my mom and her brother were coming of age. Weird thing is the social security death index works on some of my relatives but not all of them. Like I can find my deceased grandparents as well deceased uncles and such but it's hard for me to find others like their parents who with one exception died after SSN's were issued.

You're still pretty young. Get as many names and dates (births, marriages) as you can and keep them somewhere you won't lose them. Once the old folks start passing, you'll never get it again. If you can record stories, do that that, too.

206 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:44:51pm

re: #198 marjoriemoon

Oh I love this stuff hehe... It's very cool. I wish you the best of luck.

My dad got his family back to 1776 near the Carpathian mountains in Hungary. And he charted it before the internet! We have the most info on my mother's father's family, but not that far back.

I got on Ancestry.com

I only got the US version, not the international version.
HOWEVER, at some point my family tree met up with somebody else's family tree, and they had done research from BEFORE the family got here sometime in the 1500's. And so I "attached" those records to my family tree. It's a pretty amazing thing.

207 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:45:50pm

re: #197 Floral Giraffe

It's about $20 MONTH, iirc. Sister has been all over it for a couple of months, doing DAR research, and geneology to recover great great grandpa's speculative investments. It's been a very useful tool.

Well I know what I am doing as soon as I get a well paying job post degree :). On a neat sidenote, I have the family histories for both my surname as well as my dad's mom's. Really neat how I got the last one. I got both when I was studying/living in Ireland. We were on our way back from a trip to County Kerry for a weekend and I was out of cash. They have family history things at the reststops there and the Irish are very interested in Americans with Irish ancestry. I merely wanted to see the history just so I had an idea. After all, there are no people with my dad's mom's surname left (she had one brother, a Catholic priest) so the man was like I'll tell yo uwhat I'll give you thsi for free. Today, it hangs framed above my bed right next to my Irish Brigade flag that I modeled my tattoo after.

208 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:47:42pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

. . .so the man was like I'll tell yo uwhat I'll give you thsi for free. Today, it hangs framed above my bed right next to my Irish Brigade flag that I modeled my tattoo after.

You must be quite happy tonight, Happy Warrior!

209 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:48:08pm

re: #205 marjoriemoon

You're still pretty young. Get as many names and dates (births, marriages) as you can and keep them somewhere you won't lose them. Once the old folks start passing, you'll never get it again. If you can record stories, do that that, too.

Yeah I have a little file at home where I've kept some records I've gotten. IT was through those we found out about my grandfather's last name. Unfortunately, only my mom's mom is still with us. It may sound crazy since I am young but my dad's mom would be 100 next year and she started losing her memory when I was just a little kid. Amazing woman though. She sparked my interest in Ireland and my Irish ancestry. I remember her having copies of Angela's Ahses and 'Tis lying around.

210 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:48:46pm

re: #208 reine.de.tout

You must be quite happy tonight, Happy Warrior!

Haha tired. Long day of classes. Only one beer, I swear :).

211 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:50:23pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

I got on Ancestry.com

I only got the US version, not the international version.
HOWEVER, at some point my family tree met up with somebody else's family tree, and they had done research from BEFORE the family got here sometime in the 1500's. And so I "attached" those records to my family tree. It's a pretty amazing thing.

Oh neat!! It's amazing where this stuff leads. I started on Jewishgen.org 12-13 years ago and started a correspondence with a woman whose grandmother lived in the same shtetl (ghetto) as mine in Russia. She had drawings of the town and a whole history. It's a teeny, tiny planet after all!

212 recusancy  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:50:40pm

Anybody watching Colbert right now? How has this story passed unnoticed?

213 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:52:07pm

re: #212 recusancy

Anybody watching Colbert right now? How has this story passed unnoticed?

Too much crazy to get it all... I can't wait to see Christiane Aman-puur in her new outfit....

214 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:52:42pm

re: #198 marjoriemoon

Oh I love this stuff hehe... It's very cool. I wish you the best of luck.

My dad got his family back to 1776 near the Carpathian mountains in Hungary. And he charted it before the internet! We have the most info on my mother's father's family, but not that far back.

My aunt on my mother's side traced my grandmother back to Liverpool where her mother is from. Her father is from Ireland. She traced both of my grandmother's parents back to their parents. My Danish grandfather is hard to trace back. It's very hard to find information unless we hire someone to travel through church records in Denmark.
I know almost nothing on my father's side. My Grandmother is, of course German, my grandfather is Hungarian. That's all I know.

Believe it or not I went to a bunch of genealogy websites and only the Latter Day Saints website had all 4 of my grandparents listed. Unfortunately there weren't any family trees listed under their names.

215 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:53:33pm

This song is kicking my ass and the asses of everyone in the surrounding neighborhoods

216 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:55:02pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

It's easiest if you family name is a simple one. We have Koen, sometimes spelled Koon, and Smith. Guess which one is easier to research!
LOL!

217 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:55:11pm

Bill Hicks: What is the point to Life

Namaste, y'all

218 What, me worry?  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:55:36pm

re: #214 NJDhockeyfan

My aunt on my mother's side traced my grandmother back to Liverpool where her mother is from. Her father is from Ireland. She traced both of my grandmother's parents back to their parents. My Danish grandfather is hard to trace back. It's very hard to find information unless we hire someone to travel through church records in Denmark.
I know almost nothing on my father's side. My Grandmother is, of course German, my grandfather is Hungarian. That's all I know.

Believe it or not I went to a bunch of genealogy websites and only the Latter Day Saints website had all 4 of my grandparents listed. Unfortunately there weren't any family trees listed under their names.

The Mormons are great for that stuff. Especially Native American history. They have everything there is to have.

This is a really fun site. You can find the ship manifests from when your ancestors came over. We found my grandfather and his brother's name, the ship, the date. It's tre cool.

[Link: www.ellisisland.org...]

219 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:56:04pm

re: #215 WindUpBird

LOL! Zombies always rock!

220 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:57:17pm

K, I'm going to watch trash TV and mellow out. Work so soon from now.

Nighty Night!

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:59:47pm

re: #209 HappyWarrior

You see the Irish pron movie? Angela's Arses?

223 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:01:13pm

re: #202 jamesfirecat

At trying to hold back the arc of justice to the very last moment.

That's all John McCain has done since he was relected.

If you disagree, prove me wrong...

What do you mean "arc of justice"?

224 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:01:54pm

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You see the Irish pron movie? Angela's Arses?

SMACK!

225 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:02:25pm

re: #218 marjoriemoon

The Mormons are great for that stuff. Especially Native American history. They have everything there is to have.

This is a really fun site. You can find the ship manifests from when your ancestors came over. We found my grandfather and his brother's name, the ship, the date. It's tre cool.

[Link: www.ellisisland.org...]

My Danish grandfather came over and landed in Boston first. He had about 15 brothers & sisters that traveled over here at the same time. Their last name was Pedersen but half of them changed it to Skibsby when they got here. Apparently 'Skibsby' was an upper-class name in the part of Denmark where they came from. You have to wonder why they thought anyone in America would be able to tell the difference between either last name. LOL!

226 HappyWarrior  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:02:32pm

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You see the Irish pron movie? Angela's Arses?

Haha nope.

227 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:04:18pm

Goodnight all.
Sleep tight.
Especially my friends with sleep issues.
And, bugger the stalkerz.

228 recusancy  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:06:23pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

What do you mean "arc of justice"?

It's a term MLK used. McCain was against a holiday for him. Also he was against DADT repeal.

229 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:07:01pm

re: #227 Floral Giraffe

Goodnight all.
Sleep tight.
Especially my friends with sleep issues.
And, bugger the stalkerz.

EWW!

230 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:07:31pm

Well that's interesting. Campus police just sent notice that there's a SWAT standoff a couple of blocks away. Apparently they're trying to stop someone who is suicidal.

I guess they have a gun or something? When is a SWAT team called in for something like that?

231 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:08:27pm

re: #228 recusancy

It's a term MLK used. McCain was against a holiday for him. Also he was against DADT repeal.

I will note, though, that those were positions of his voters. McCain was only voting as they wished him to.

232 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:09:01pm

re: #230 Lidane

Well that's interesting. Campus police just sent notice that there's a SWAT standoff a couple of blocks away. Apparently they're trying to stop someone who is suicidal.

I guess they have a gun or something? When is a SWAT team called in for something like that?

When they think the person might shoot someone else.

233 Jadespring  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:09:20pm

Last month I used Ancestry.com to do some research on my Dad's side of the family. My sisters and I knew a bit of info. My Grandma had sent her a letter once with some names and history. Ended up that Grandma had some info wrong but I managed to piece it together. We ended up connecting with a distance cousin in Wisconsin and also discovered that some pictures were labeled wrong. We thought only only my great great great Grandfather was in the Civil War. Ended up his son was too and was only 16 when he signed up and the father was in his forties. Originally we thought the pictures of men in uniform were the same person. It also led to some interesting discussions on a Civil War forum. They were a great help in finding out specific info about where and who they served with. It was pretty cool.

234 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:09:50pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

When they think the person might shoot someone else.

Ah. Good point. Trying to stop a murder-suicide, I guess. I hope they succeed.

235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:13:18pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

"Death by cop" is for sissies.

236 recusancy  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:14:34pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

I will note, though, that those were positions of his voters. McCain was only voting as they wished him to.

Are they your positions? I assume you've voted for him.

237 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:20:13pm

re: #236 recusancy

Are they your positions? I assume you've voted for him.

I wasn't politically active yet during the debate over an MLK holdiay, being only a child. In 2008, I was against DADT repeal, but I have since changed my mind.

And now I'm going to watch Southland. Goodnight, all.

238 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:20:35pm

re: #218 marjoriemoon

That's a great website, thanks! I never been on it before. I could stay on there all night looking for my European family members. I bet I will find some of them.

239 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:20:45pm

re: #235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Death by cop" is for sissies.

I prefer death by bacon.

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:23:09pm

re: #239 mracb

I prefer death by bacon.

Takes a while.

241 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:25:11pm

I gotta go to bed. Have a great night!

242 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:27:51pm

re: #240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Takes a while.

I've got time.

243 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:28:31pm

re: #241 NJDhockeyfan

I gotta go to bed. Have a great night!

goodnight, my nemesis.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:29:31pm

re: #216 Floral Giraffe

It's easiest if you family name is a simple one. We have Koen, sometimes spelled Koon, and Smith. Guess which one is easier to research!
LOL!

We have a plethora of simple occupation names on both sides of the family. As I think I've said before, I was intrigued to discover that we have Germans on the English side of the family, but the immigrant couple who are as far back as I can get are "Mary and Peter Muller".

Oh yeah. They're gonna be easy to track back to the old country.

245 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:30:25pm

re: #240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Takes a while.

But far more enjoyable. Mmm, bacon...

/Homer Simpson

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:31:16pm

re: #240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Takes a while.

"There's nothing you can do. Kyle will be dead in two, possibly three hours."

247 freetoken  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:38:30pm

How many of you are following the House budget debate?

The GOP House is putting on quite the show:

Conservatives in House push for another $20B in budget cuts

Conservative House Republicans are mounting what could be the most serious challenge to the GOP spending bill this week, offering an amendment that would slash federal funding by an additional $20 billion.

The amendment is sponsored by the chairman of the conservative Republican Study Committee (RSC), Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), and would force the GOP rank and file to choose whether to back a more ambitious package of spending cuts than the measure endorsed by party leadership. [...]

John the Orange certainly has his hands full, in dealing with the RSC. Onwards:

His amendment is one of more than 400 submitted by lawmakers on Monday as members jumped at the chance for a rare open debate on a spending bill that GOP leaders have billed as their first chance to bring down the deficit.

Lawmakers were expected to file dozens if not hundreds of additional amendments before the deadline on Tuesday, and the House prepared for an around-the-clock debate in a bid to pass the 359-page bill by Thursday. [...]

The House clerk began reading the bill aloud around 3:30 p.m. on Tuesday, and members must offer their amendments when the section they want to change is read.

The amendments that were filed ran the gamut of policy and politics. Some, like Jordan’s, were sweeping in scope, while others dealt with obscure government departments and minuscule amounts of money. In a city where even an allocation of $10 million can be considered a rounding error, one amendment offered by Rep. Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyo.) proposed to strike a single dollar from the Department of Agriculture budget.

Some lawmakers proposed changes clearly aimed at making a political point. Rep. Betty McCollum (D-Minn.) offered amendments that would ban the Defense Department from sponsoring NASCAR vehicles, or from spending more than $200 million on “military bands, musical equipment or musical performance.”

From Texas alone, Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R) proposed banning funds from being used for repairs at the White House executive residence, Rep. Ted Poe (R) pushed to cut funding for the Environmental Protection Agency and Rep. Ron Paul (R) tried to strike the foreign aid budget.

Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) offered an amendment to prohibit funding for 102 separate affiliates of Planned Parenthood, the reproductive health organization and abortion provider.

[...]

[M]any Republicans seemed mollified by the open amendment process leaders crafted. [...]

Not all Republicans were happy, however. The most vocal critic on Tuesday was Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), who complained that his amendment to strip funding for the 2010 healthcare law was rejected on a procedural issue. He voted “present” on the rule governing debate for the spending bill and said he might vote against the entire measure.

“The Speaker said, ‘Let the House work its will.’ Well, the rules don’t allow the House to work its will,” King said after the vote.

Rep. Michele Bachmann (Minn.) was the only other Republican to oppose the procedural measure, which garnered support from eight Democrats.

Hehe... let them bicker. Perhaps the masses, who don't normally pay attention to what their Representatives are doing, might finally notice.

248 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 9:58:47pm

re: #233 Jadespring

Last month I used Ancestry.com to do some research on my Dad's side of the family. My sisters and I knew a bit of info. My Grandma had sent her a letter once with some names and history. Ended up that Grandma had some info wrong but I managed to piece it together. We ended up connecting with a distance cousin in Wisconsin and also discovered that some pictures were labeled wrong. We thought only only my great great great Grandfather was in the Civil War. Ended up his son was too and was only 16 when he signed up and the father was in his forties. Originally we thought the pictures of men in uniform were the same person. It also led to some interesting discussions on a Civil War forum. They were a great help in finding out specific info about where and who they served with. It was pretty cool.

I had a similar situation. Father and son.

At the moment, I'm hanging with the dead Germans.

Catholic church records from the 18th century from Germany.

249 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:01:33pm

re: #244 SanFranciscoZionist

We have a plethora of simple occupation names on both sides of the family. As I think I've said before, I was intrigued to discover that we have Germans on the English side of the family, but the immigrant couple who are as far back as I can get are "Mary and Peter Muller".

Oh yeah. They're gonna be easy to track back to the old country.

If you haven't checked out familysearch.org recently, they're putting up the historical records that were indexed.

I will have to be honest, though, that the search engine isn't all I'd like it to be. It requires a bit of patience, mostly in working with place names.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:04:17pm

Aw Hell Lizards,

I just learned my BIL died.

One of those situations that just leaves you numb. He was very ill for many years and very, very miserable the last 2. 58 years old.

Damn. A relief for him and his faithful wife.

Being grown-up truly sucks sometimes.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:04:49pm

re: #250 ggt

Aw Hell Lizards,

I just learned my BIL died.

One of those situations that just leaves you numb. He was very ill for many years and very, very miserable the last 2. 58 years old.

Damn. A relief for him and his faithful wife.

Being grown-up truly sucks sometimes.

Jeez. I am so sorry.

252 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:06:44pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Jeez. I am so sorry.

That's just it. Even tho he is gone, it's what he has wanted for the last few weeks. I feel bad that I feel bad. I should be happy for him. No more pain and misery.

253 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:08:52pm

re: #250 ggt

Aw Hell Lizards,

I just learned my BIL died.

One of those situations that just leaves you numb. He was very ill for many years and very, very miserable the last 2. 58 years old.

Damn. A relief for him and his faithful wife.

Being grown-up truly sucks sometimes.

I am so sorry.

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:10:03pm

re: #252 ggt

That's just it. Even tho he is gone, it's what he has wanted for the last few weeks. I feel bad that I feel bad. I should be happy for him. No more pain and misery.

You're allowed to mourn the loss, and the fact that he didn't have a longer and easier life, and still know that he's at rest, and feel happiness about that.

I know that's facile. It's still true.

255 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:11:40pm

re: #253 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

thanks.

256 freetoken  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:17:54pm

re: #250 ggt

Being grown-up truly sucks sometimes.

Yes.

Sorry for your loss.

257 freetoken  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:18:47pm

re: #249 EmmmieG

If you haven't checked out familysearch.org recently, ...

Rather sparse records, unfortunately.

258 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:31:48pm

I'm going to bed.

have a good morning all!

Sorry if I turned the thread sad.

I appreciate you-all very much.

259 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:36:20pm

I've haven't been having a good week either. Dad is stressed out at his new job, and I'm sick, which means I am quarintining myself from close contact with friends. It doesn't help that this is what I am listening to as I do homework (from 17:40 onwards.)


260 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:42:26pm

OK, everybody.

Look at the baby wombat.

261 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:45:29pm

re: #259 ProLifeLiberal

I've haven't been having a good week either. Dad is stressed out at his new job, and I'm sick, which means I am quarintining myself from close contact with friends. It doesn't help that this is what I am listening to as I do homework (from 17:40 onwards.)

[Video]

What homework? and feel better...

262 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:46:48pm

re: #261 LudwigVanQuixote

Pre-Calculus.

263 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:48:16pm

re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, everybody.

Look at the baby wombat.

he look like a little peeeglet

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:51:00pm

re: #263 engineer dog

he look like a little peeeglet

But furry!

265 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:51:42pm

re: #262 ProLifeLiberal

Pre-Calculus.

Well it just so happens that I might be of service to you :)

266 freetoken  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:54:22pm

re: #262 ProLifeLiberal

Pre-Calculus.

The key to success in life is to remember to not divide by zero.

267 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:55:16pm

re: #262 ProLifeLiberal

Seriously, are you doing sequences and series? DeMoivre's theorem? Complex numbers?

268 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:56:03pm

re: #266 freetoken

The key to success in life is to remember to not divide by zero.

and don't return pointers to stack memory!!!

269 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 10:59:54pm

re: #267 LudwigVanQuixote

Not yet at least. Quadratic equations is next. I did take it in High School, but they missed stuff, which doomed me from being a Meteorology Major. OU has the best Met program in the US. It isn't an exaggeration to say Katrina sent me here.

270 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:05:34pm

I took calculus 1 about a million years ago. OK, it was about 25 years ago. Back when I was about ready to go to architecture school. Of course, architects don't use calculus but it used to be a requirement. I enjoyed it and almost got an 4.0. Anywho, I never went to architecture school and probably never will. Too much money for very little return.

271 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:06:18pm

re: #269 ProLifeLiberal

Not yet at least. Quadratic equations is next. I did take it in High School, but they missed stuff, which doomed me from being a Meteorology Major. OU has the best Met program in the US. It isn't an exaggeration to say Katrina sent me here.

Ok...

Do you want the rundown on everything you need to know about

ax^2 + bx + c = 0 and more importantly, f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c?

272 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:08:10pm

re: #271 LudwigVanQuixote

Nah, my teacher's pretty good. But I thank you for the offer very much. I hope your not offended. If I need help later, I'll know who to ask! :)

273 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:08:42pm

re: #272 ProLifeLiberal

Nah, my teacher's pretty good. But I thank you for the offer very much. I hope your not offended. If I need help later, I'll know who to ask! :)

Not offended in the least!

274 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:08:56pm

actually, just now i am studying suffix trees as a O(n + m) solution to the longest common substring problem

the dynamic programming solution is cool, but it is O(nm)

275 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:09:05pm

Stupid

Rep. Steve Womack (R-Ark.) intended to introduce an amendment that would prohibit federal funds from being used to buy and maintain teleprompters for President Obama, but his spokesman told The Huffington Post that they couldn't get the Congressional Budget Office's score in time to submit it. The congressman plans to introduce it in the future though and anticipates it could save taxpayers $5 million.

276 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:10:34pm

re: #275 Gus 802

Stupid

Seriously? You've got to be kidding.

277 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:11:31pm

re: #276 Lidane

Seriously? You've got to be kidding.

Looks serious. Just another dumb hick on the hill. He's a freshman.

278 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:13:51pm

re: #277 Gus 802

Looks serious. Just another dumb hick on the hill. He's a freshman.

I swear that teleprompter meme was some of the dumbest shit I ever saw. I shouldn't be surprised that some dumb hick fell for it.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:14:07pm

re: #275 Gus 802

Stupid

An amendment to prohibit federal funds from being used to provide speechmaking equipment to the president?

WTF? Does he think Obama should buy his own teleprompters?

280 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:14:59pm

re: #277 Gus 802

Jeeze, what moron this representative is. Though I won't claim that OU's district, or mine in Colorado Springs are any better.

Meanwhile, it looks like Bahrain wins the prize for possible 3rd place finisher in the Arab Domino Fall. From Wikipedia:

Protesters in Bahrain continue to occupy a square in Bahrain's capital Manama. (Al Jazeera)

281 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:15:10pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

An amendment to prohibit federal funds from being used to provide speechmaking equipment to the president?

WTF? Does he think Obama should buy his own teleprompters?

Amazing isn't it? Attempting to cut the budget of the office of the president like this. It's unheard of. At least I never heard of anything like this.

282 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:16:06pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

An amendment to prohibit federal funds from being used to provide speechmaking equipment to the president?

WTF? Does he think Obama should buy his own teleprompters?

Maybe he's dumb enough to think that Obama will suddenly be unable to talk if there aren't any teleprompters around. Some of these teabaggers strike me as being just that stupid.

283 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:19:44pm

re: #282 Lidane

Maybe he's dumb enough to think that Obama will suddenly be unable to talk if there aren't any teleprompters around. Some of these teabaggers strike me as being just that stupid.

Imagine if you will that by strange chance the GOP takes back the White House and this amendment passed. You think they'd bring back the teleprompter budget?

284 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:21:03pm

re: #278 Lidane

I swear that teleprompter meme was some of the dumbest shit I ever saw. I shouldn't be surprised that some dumb hick fell for it.

The teleprompter thing was funny for a while. I even made jokes about it. Then I realized that a disturbing number of people thought it was quite a serious matter.

285 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:21:35pm
286 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:22:07pm
287 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:22:50pm

There's Reagan reading from the old teleprompter. And another thing. Reagan never wrote his speeches.

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:24:41pm

re: #283 Gus 802

Imagine if you will that by strange chance the GOP takes back the White House and this amendment passed. You think they'd bring back the teleprompter budget?

President Palin can just write everything on her hands, as usual. Or laboriously read from a paper copy in front of her, joking about how in Alaska you don't get used to fancy city things like teleprompters.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:25:51pm

re: #287 Gus 802

There's Reagan reading from the old teleprompter. And another thing. Reagan never wrote his speeches.

It's the industry standard, if you can refer to politicking as an 'industry'. Everyone uses them. Everyone has used them for decades. The president of the United States kind of needs them for his work.

290 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:26:01pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

President Palin can just write everything on her hands, as usual. Or laboriously read from a paper copy in front of her, joking about how in Alaska you don't get used to fancy city things like teleprompters.

Well it is true. One doesn't need a teleprompter is one is only going to say a bunch of bullshit. But of course Palin used a teleprompter during the 2008 campaign.

291 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:27:28pm

re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist

It's the industry standard, if you can refer to politicking as an 'industry'. Everyone uses them. Everyone has used them for decades. The president of the United States kind of needs them for his work.

Right. It's not like they're going to spend a whole week memorizing a speech. They're deluded as usual and seething with rage about Obama.

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:27:44pm

re: #290 Gus 802

Well it is true. One doesn't need a teleprompter is one is only going to say a bunch of bullshit. But of course Palin used a teleprompter during the 2008 campaign.

Well, yeah. Everyone uses them.

How much does a good teleprompter cost, anyway?

293 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:29:10pm

re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, yeah. Everyone uses them.

How much does a good teleprompter cost, anyway?

3000 bucks? I'm sure with the office of the president that it's more than just buying a teleprompter.

294 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:30:15pm
295 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:30:33pm

re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, yeah. Everyone uses them.

How much does a good teleprompter cost, anyway?

Nothing I'm seeing on Google Shopping seems to be over $6,000. Even if the good political kind cost more, I think we can afford a few. For the President. Of the United States of America. Because no matter how much anyone may hate the President, he represents America, and seeing him reading from a printout would be embarrassing to us all.

296 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:31:26pm

re: #282 Lidane

I think what is happening in the Arab World does have precident elsewhere. This seems similar to the 1848 Revolutions in Europe. Massive instability in several nations, a few governments fall, reform carried in others, and the seed of the future sown at this time. It looks like Tunisia and Egypt took the place of France. Morocco could very well be a stand in for Scandinavia, which was marginally affected. Depending what Jordan does, it may end up in a similar state as Denmark or the Netherlands.


Going from the past, it is very likely we will see and uptick in immigration from Arab States soon. I firmly believe in the idea of history repeating itself.

297 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:31:46pm
298 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:33:18pm
299 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:34:29pm

The teleprompter president!!11ty

Image: missionaccomplishedc.jpg

300 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:34:44pm

re: #291 Gus 802

Right. It's not like they're going to spend a whole week memorizing a speech. They're deluded as usual and seething with rage about Obama.

the unfocussed rage requires objects to fixate on - apparently anything will do

i always wonder why electric cars come in for so much contempt

301 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:36:26pm

re: #300 engineer dog

the unfocussed rage requires objects to fixate on - apparently anything will do

i always wonder why electric cars come in for so much contempt

Limbaugh still raging against the Chevy Volt? Don't forget the CF lightbulb rage.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:36:30pm

It's interesting how many things the Obama administration does that presidents have been doing for decades suddenly became 'issues'.

Teleprompters. Czars. The First Lady wearing expensive clothes.

I wonder if this is some side effect of how all the Tea Party people are supposed to be brand new to politics, and they think all this crap is brand new or something. Or maybe they're just desperate. I don't know. Obama's doing a good job, but he's far from so perfect that they need to bitch about these peculiar things.

303 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:36:44pm
304 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:38:47pm

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

It's interesting how many things the Obama administration does that presidents have been doing for decades suddenly became 'issues'.

Teleprompters. Czars. The First Lady wearing expensive clothes.

I wonder if this is some side effect of how all the Tea Party people are supposed to be brand new to politics, and they think all this crap is brand new or something. Or maybe they're just desperate. I don't know. Obama's doing a good job, but he's far from so perfect that they need to bitch about these peculiar things.

Wingnut blogger mentality has become the norm for the right wing.

305 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:43:10pm

I'm so glad that LGF is now wingnut free. I remember it wasn't too long ago when there would always be some nutcase around that would never stop babbling about the teleprompter or even CF lightbulbs.

306 Lidane  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:44:06pm

re: #283 Gus 802

Imagine if you will that by strange chance the GOP takes back the White House and this amendment passed. You think they'd bring back the teleprompter budget?

Pfft. They'll triple the budget just to celebrate the fact that a Republican is POTUS again.

307 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:45:50pm

re: #306 Lidane

Pfft. They'll triple the budget just to celebrate the fact that a Republican is POTUS again.

Yep. And proceed to take down the solar panels.

308 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:47:25pm

...And bring back Freedom Fries.

/

309 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:55:07pm
310 Gus  Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:55:52pm
311 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:06:15am

re: #270 Gus 802

Of course, architects don't use calculus but it used to be a requirement.

It's the classic "weed out" course.

312 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:07:22am

re: #311 freetoken

It's the classic "weed out" course.

I suppose it could be. That way they can teach students how to design buildings that will never get built. ;)

313 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:10:10am

re: #281 Gus 802

Amazing isn't it? Attempting to cut the budget of the office of the president like this. It's unheard of. At least I never heard of anything like this.

Oh, then there is the amendment offered that would slash the White House repair budget....

Yes.

The whole session can be watched here:
[Link: houselive.gov...]

A summary of the actions here:
[Link: clerk.house.gov...]

314 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:10:54am

re: #313 freetoken

Oh, then there is the amendment offered that would slash the White House repair budget...

Yes.

The whole session can be watched here:
[Link: houselive.gov...]

A summary of the actions here:
[Link: clerk.house.gov...]

They're nuts. Who proposed that?

315 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:12:00am

re: #314 Gus 802

They're nuts. Who proposed that?

It was mentioned in one of the TheHill articles, to which I linked earlier, I think.

316 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:13:59am
From Texas alone, Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R) proposed banning funds from being used for repairs at the White House executive residence, Rep. Ted Poe (R) pushed to cut funding for the Environmental Protection Agency and Rep. Ron Paul (R) tried to strike the foreign aid budget.
317 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:14:51am

re: #316 freetoken

Just found that!

Yeah. Just as I figured. Another Confederate.

I see a pattern here.

318 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:15:37am
319 Gus  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:19:12am

Good night all.

320 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:19:39am
321 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 12:23:17am

strasbourg oaths, 842 AD

the first example of any of the romance languages that were evolving from latin, it's closer to modern catalan than anything else. there was to be no more substantial documentation of french, spanish, italian, or any other romance language until the eleventh century. the text is a single and unique flash of light illuminating dark age french

Pro Deo amur et pro Christian poblo et nostro commun salvament, d'ist di in avant, in quant Deus savir et podir me dunat, si salvarai eo cist meon fradre Karlo et in ajudha et in cadhuna cosa, si cum om per dreit son fradre salvar dist, in o quid il me altresi fazet, et ab Ludher nul plaid numquam prindrai, qui, meon vol, cist meon fradre Karle in damno sit

Si Lodhwigs sagrament que son fradre Karlo jurat conservat et Karlus, meos sendra, de suo part n lostanit, si io returnar non l'int pois, ne io ne neuls cui eo returnar int pois, in nulla ajudha contra Lodhuwig nun li iu er

322 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 1:51:51am
323 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 3:09:20am
324 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:20:33am

re: #11 Charles

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger:


[Video]

"Honey Badger don't give a shit."

325 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:28:46am

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

Air America failed because its shows were lame and hostile. Too often it did nothing but spew BDS, Bad Craziness is sane-person repellent.

See, this is what I don't get about the 'look, look, Air America failed, lefties suck' meme.

Yes, Air America failed because it had lame, hostile shows. Clearly, there is not much of a market on that side of politics for that sort of emotional demagoguery. This is a good thing. Yet it is inexplicably used to highlight some sort of failing?

Conversely, Conservative cult radio, full of hostility, hate, and anger porn, is a roaring success. Again, some people want to hold this up as... a sign of greatness. Frankly, if I identified on the right, I'd be embarrassed as hell that Conservative talk radio was hugely popular with 'my team', while Air America was never popular.

326 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:36:14am

Allow me to have the last word of this teleprompter debacle.... Image: ?action=view&current=roflbot-q8Ox.jpg now then lets move on....

327 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:39:44am

re: #305 Gus 802

I'm so glad that LGF is now wingnut free. I remember it wasn't too long ago when there would always be some nutcase around that would never stop babbling about the teleprompter or even CF lightbulbs.

I miss the amusement value somewhat.

328 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:41:18am

re: #327 iossarian

I miss the amusement value somewhat.

Well always have the sleepers... /crazy new hatchlings....

329 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:43:05am

re: #328 jamesfirecat

Well always have the sleepers... /crazy new hatchlings...

Yeah, but even there the number of epic "random gatecrashing followed by 100-comment flameout" incidents has diminished somewhat.

"Why yes, since you mention it, I am a Ron Paul supporter."

330 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:45:05am

re: #329 iossarian

Yeah, but even there the number of epic "random gatecrashing followed by 100-comment flameout" incidents has diminished somewhat.

"Why yes, since you mention it, I am a Ron Paul supporter."

I'm also black, and a woman, what you don't believe me?

331 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:48:27am

Key congressmen call for pullout of U.S. forces from Japan

WASHINGTON (Kyodo) -- Two veteran U.S. congressmen have called for the withdrawal of U.S. forces in Japan amid the ballooning U.S. budget deficit.

"It's becoming a financial issue," Ron Paul, a Republican House of Representatives member from Texas, said in a recent interview with Kyodo News, indicating that maintaining U.S. forces in Japan has become a financial burden for Washington.

Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat member from Ohio, said in a separate recent interview with Kyodo News, "The United States truly cannot afford to construct the new base in Okinawa. Nor can it afford to have a military presence across the globe."


It's like a bipartisanship of CRAZY!!

332 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:50:20am

re: #330 jamesfirecat

I'm also black, and a woman, what you don't believe me?

You're not really a lesbian.

333 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:51:16am

re: #330 jamesfirecat

I'm also black, and a woman, what you don't believe me?

See? That's what I'm talking about. That was ages ago!

FWIW, I thought at the time that the commenter really was black and female. There were some details to some of her posts that just didn't seem like things you'd make up if you were a white middle-manager from Newark.

334 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:52:38am

re: #333 iossarian

See? That's what I'm talking about. That was ages ago!

FWIW, I thought at the time that the commenter really was black and female. There were some details to some of her posts that just didn't seem like things you'd make up if you were a white middle-manager from Newark.

Afro City was really a white guy?

335 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 4:55:15am

re: #332 Alouette

I always found guys who said "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!" to be idiots.

"So, you'd like have your dick cut off, right?"

336 laZardo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:00:11am

re: #330 jamesfirecat

I'm also black, and a woman, what you don't believe me?

Some of the most effeminate people I've ever shared forums with happened to be gay males.

Trust me, at this point it wouldn't be surprising at all.

337 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:05:52am

re: #335 Obdicut

I always found guys who said "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!" to be idiots.

"So, you'd like have your dick cut off, right?"

No, I wanna keep my junk, but I am one of those guys who is looking for an emotional/spiritual/close personal partner relationship with a woman, not just a dominant physical/sexual one.

And in the modern world of cultural sterotypes, that all but makes me a lesbian...

338 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:09:12am

re: #337 ralphieboy

No, I wanna keep my junk, but I am one of those guys who is looking for an emotional/spiritual/close personal partner relationship with a woman, not just a dominant physical/sexual one.

And in the modern world of cultural sterotypes, that all but makes me a lesbian...

Does your wife know?//

339 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:11:11am

re: #337 ralphieboy

Heh. You haven't known some of the lesbians I've known.

People get way too concerned with gender stuff.

340 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:11:17am

I am now separated. My ex-wife was convinced I was some sort of closet gay.

That after fathering four children with her...

341 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:11:53am

Yes, my ex is a heterosesual bull dyke.

342 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:12:49am

re: #340 ralphieboy

Well, I know plenty of gay guys that fathered kids, but there's a pretty easy test for 'teh gay':

Do you like having sex with/fantasizing about sex with men?

Do you like having sex with/fantasizing about sex with women?

343 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:13:12am

Human sexuality and mating/coupling behavior is too complex to be boiled down to certain stereotypes and archetypes, but that does not prevent us from making an entire industry out of doing so...

344 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:14:06am

re: #340 ralphieboy

I am now separated. My ex-wife was convinced I was some sort of closet gay.

That after fathering four children with her...

Sorry to hear about that.

345 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:15:20am

re: #342 Obdicut

Well, I know plenty of gay guys that fathered kids, but there's a pretty easy test for 'teh gay':

Do you like having sex with/fantasizing about sex with men?

Do you like having sex with/fantasizing about sex with women?


I have been full-on hetero for as long as I can remember. One of the few aspects of my personality I have never had any doubts or confusion about.

But at one point, my ex wanted to watch "Brokeback Mountain", so I ordered it from the video rental. That was the final proof for her: both those guys were married and had children!

But I did tell her that if I ever took up fly fishing, she might have cause to be concerned...

346 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:16:49am

She was convinced I was gay because I lost all interest in having sex with her, which had little to do with interest in men or even lack of interest in women, it had more to do with her personality (dominant and aggressive) and the stresses of raising four kids born eight years apart.

347 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:17:45am

re: #346 ralphieboy

Heh. I've met women like that? "Don't want to have sex with me? You must be gay!"

348 laZardo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:19:18am
349 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:19:28am

That and I have a pronounced domestic side, I like cooking and don't even mind housekeeping. I am not big into sports or automobiles. All totally gay, right?

350 laZardo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:21:10am

re: #349 ralphieboy

That and I have a pronounced domestic side, I like cooking and don't even mind housekeeping. I am not big into sports or automobiles. All totally gay, right?

WUB is into automobiles, and AFAIK he's gay.

/LOGIC PARADOX?

351 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:24:13am

Aw, f*&k, no school in Madison today. About 50% of the teachers have called in "sick" for today's protest against Governor Walker's partisan union busting. While I'm on the teacher's side, having my son home for the day means no house cleaning accomplished for me. Good day for a slow cooker pot roast too.

Maybe we need to import some Cairo attitude in Wisconsin? Wonder how Pharoah Walker would like that? //

352 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:25:32am

re: #348 laZardo

Meanwhile, in Libya(!)

Now that could be an interesting game changer...

353 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:27:09am

re: #351 wlewisiii

Just continuing in the great Ronald Reagan tradition of busting public unions, remember the Air Traffic Controllers' Union?

Soon we will have them all fired and working for temp agencies at half the cost...

354 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:28:17am

re: #348 laZardo

Meanwhile, in Libya(!)

Khaddafi: Not me! Not me, you idiots! I told you to go and invade Israel!

355 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:31:24am

Some have presented the argument that our invasion of Iraq somehow played a role in these uprisings.

One one hand, I cannot imagine people in Tunisia, Libya, Bahrain or Egypt saying "Would't it be great if we could be more like Iraq?"

And in fact, what might be happening on the streets of Baghdad right now? Might the people there be toppling Saddam on their own without us having had to spend biollions of dollars and thousands of lives?

356 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:36:58am

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

It's interesting how many things the Obama administration does that presidents have been doing for decades suddenly became 'issues'.

Teleprompters. Czars. The First Lady wearing expensive clothes.

I wonder if this is some side effect of how all the Tea Party people are supposed to be brand new to politics, and they think all this crap is brand new or something. Or maybe they're just desperate. I don't know. Obama's doing a good job, but he's far from so perfect that they need to bitch about these peculiar things.

Laura Bush wore expensive designer clothing, but I don't recall anyone complaining.

And yes, folks need to be concerned about the real issues with Obama, and there are a few, rather than what Michelle is wearing

*cough* the moratorium, IMO, which has been officially lifted but is still unofficially in place *cough*

357 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:37:27am

re: #305 Gus 802

I'm so glad that LGF is now wingnut free. I remember it wasn't too long ago when there would always be some nutcase around that would never stop babbling about the teleprompter or even CF lightbulbs.

Ahem.
Some of us are still around.

358 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:39:26am

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Ahem.
Some of us are still around.

You and DF are not wingnuts. We need a diagnostic test.

359 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:40:00am

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Ahem.
Some of us are still around.

Double plus that.

360 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:40:54am

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

Double plus that.

Somehow I don't think you'd be on-scale.

361 laZardo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:41:48am

re: #357 reine.de.tout

They see me paint-rolling. They hating, patrolling they are trying to catch me brushing dirty.

:B

362 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:44:05am

I don't mind a lively argument with someone with a conservative point of view. In fact, that is what brought me to this site.

I just give up on the endless loop of mindless conservative talking/squawking points that one often encounters.

There just seem to be a lot of people who hate Obama with some sort of mindless rage.

I will not go into what I think is behind it, but it makes them open to the most spurious, fallacious and riduculous arguments against him, both politically and personally.

363 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:46:47am

re: #362 ralphieboy

I prefer people who base arguments in reality.

There's a lot of that around here. Not exclusively, but at least the vast majority.

364 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:48:50am

re: #358 Decatur Deb

You and DF are not wingnuts. We need a diagnostic test.

I don't much go in for silliness.

Michelle wore a $200 J Crew cardigan, rather than the $90 J Crew cardigan? Michelle went sleeveless? So what? That's between her and Obama.

Do I think Keith Olberman and Chris Matthews are assholes? Yes. So I don't go there. But it does me no good to post anywhere, "Keith and Chris are assholes". It changes nothing. People have a right to like them or not. Not.A.Big.Deal.

I don't care about the teleprompter; CF lights are great (except for the disposal of same, argh, but that'll get fixed, give it some time).

I don't have enough time in my life to be worried and screeching about silly things. I barely have enough time to worry about the things that actually matter.

365 freetoken  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:53:14am

Say goodbye to winter?

[Link: www.weather.gov...]

366 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:54:21am

re: #365 freetoken

My plan on waiting for 50 degree weather to melt all this ice is finally working.

Morning all!

367 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:55:25am

OK, I've gotta brag for

just a minute.


Please, forgive me, this is unseemly to do, I know . . .

Daughter had to take calculus this semester. I fretted and fretted about this, because I've heard so many really awful things about calculus; told her if she found she needed a tutor, be sure to let us know, we'd do whatever we had to do to make sure she passed the course.

Well, turns out - she gets it. She understands it. It's time-consuming; she spends 4-6 hours outside of class working on the assignments, but when I asked her how it was going, her response was, "It's fine. I guess we're still doing the easy stuff".

Easy stuff?

I barely passed basic college math. How I managed to give birth to a kid who likes and understands math is beyond me . . .

368 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:56:11am

Good morning lizards!

re: #364 reine.de.tout

I don't much go in for silliness.

Michelle wore a $200 J Crew cardigan, rather than the $90 J Crew cardigan? Michelle went sleeveless? So what? That's between her and Obama.

I have zero taste in clothing and have no idea who the hell J Crew is. Michelle's wardrobe is of zero concern IMO.


Do I think Keith Olberman and Chris Matthews are assholes? Yes. So I don't go there. But it does me no good to post anywhere, "Keith and Chris are assholes". It changes nothing. People have a right to like them or not. Not.A.Big.Deal.

Yes, Keith and Chris are assholes but repeatedly saying that becomes worthless after a while. I wonder if the non-stop comments about Sarah Palin will ever slow down?


I don't care about the teleprompter; CF lights are great (except for the disposal of same, argh, but that'll get fixed, give it some time).

CF lights suck. I will hold on to regular lights for as long as I can. They make the room look better.

I don't have enough time in my life to be worried and screeching about silly things. I barely have enough time to worry about the things that actually matter.

I barely have time to post on LGF lately since I got back to work. How is everyone?

369 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:59:27am

re: #367 reine.de.tout

OK, I've gotta brag for


Please, forgive me, this is unseemly to do, I know . . .

Daughter had to take calculus this semester. I fretted and fretted about this, because I've heard so many really awful things about calculus; told her if she found she needed a tutor, be sure to let us know, we'd do whatever we had to do to make sure she passed the course.

Well, turns out - she gets it. She understands it. It's time-consuming; she spends 4-6 hours outside of class working on the assignments, but when I asked her how it was going, her response was, "It's fine. I guess we're still doing the easy stuff".

Easy stuff?

I barely passed basic college math. How I managed to give birth to a kid who likes and understands math is beyond me . . .

Sounds like HS or college girl. If she's young enough, the Danica McKellar books will reinforce that trait. We got a couple for our Middle-School GD.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

370 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 5:59:43am

re: #367 reine.de.tout

OK, I've gotta brag for


Please, forgive me, this is unseemly to do, I know . . .

Daughter had to take calculus this semester. I fretted and fretted about this, because I've heard so many really awful things about calculus; told her if she found she needed a tutor, be sure to let us know, we'd do whatever we had to do to make sure she passed the course.

Well, turns out - she gets it. She understands it. It's time-consuming; she spends 4-6 hours outside of class working on the assignments, but when I asked her how it was going, her response was, "It's fine. I guess we're still doing the easy stuff".

Easy stuff?

I barely passed basic college math. How I managed to give birth to a kid who likes and understands math is beyond me . . .

My kids are all natural mathies. I think it's because Zedushka and I both hold degrees in Math. I got mine just to prove that I'm not a mathophobe. Zedushka got his just to prove that a guy who's married to a woman with a Math degree has to have one too.

He enjoys doing partial differential equations for fun.

371 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:00:04am

Interesting!

Thousands of Tombs in Saudi Desert Spotted From Space

Little is known about the archaeology of Saudi Arabia, as the government has historically forbid aerial photographs of the landscape and religious sensitivities have made access tricky. But Google Earth is changing that. Satellite images available via the Web-based 3-D map program show that large portions of the country hold a wealth of archaeological remains that predate Islam and may be several thousand years old.

Researchers recently discovered nearly 2,000 tombs by peering through one high-resolution "window" at a rocky lava field east of the city of Jeddah — all without having to set foot in the Saudi desert.

Judging by the sheer number of stone ruins identified in Saudi Arabia, as well as in other research in Jordan, there may well be a million such sites scattered throughout the Arabian Peninsula, said David Kennedy, an archaeologist at the University of Western Australia who led the study.

372 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:02:36am

re: #368 njdhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

I have zero taste in clothing and have no idea who the hell J Crew is. Michelle's wardrobe is of zero concern IMO.

Yes, Keith and Chris are assholes but repeatedly saying that becomes worthless after a while. I wonder if the non-stop comments about Sarah Palin will ever slow down?

CF lights suck. I will hold on to regular lights for as long as I can. They make the room look better.

I barely have time to post on LGF lately since I got back to work. How is everyone?


I don't know about everyone, but I'm doing fine.

I'm almost finished with a stained glass class I took; my piece is ready to be soldered. Here it is.

373 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:03:40am

re: #372 reine.de.tout

I don't know about everyone, but I'm doing fine.

I'm almost finished with a stained glass class I took; my piece is ready to be soldered. Here it is.

Nice.

374 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:04:09am

re: #372 reine.de.tout

I don't know about everyone, but I'm doing fine.

I'm almost finished with a stained glass class I took; my piece is ready to be soldered. Here it is.

Nice... very french.

375 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:04:14am

re: #368 njdhockeyfan

The CFs are a stopgap. I'm seeing LED arrays at Sam's that go to 850 lumens. They'll keep improving them and there are other possible fixes out there. (The LEDs are still very expensive, about 25.00 for the 850 'bulb'.) Here in the South, it's not just the inefficiency of the light source, but the waste heat that must be counted on the AC load.

376 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:04:27am

re: #372 reine.de.tout

Looks quite nice. My grandmother worked with stained glass-- one of the windows in the house in San Francisco is her work, and she repaired the already-existing stained glass in the house frequently.

377 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:04:39am

re: #371 njdhockeyfan


America is violating the Holy Soil of the Prophet from outer space! Death to the satellites of Satan!!!

378 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:04:53am

re: #369 Decatur Deb

Sounds like HS or college girl. If she's young enough, the Danica McKellar books will reinforce that trait. We got a couple for our Middle-School GD.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

College, first year.
She's always liked math. In grade school, she would go ahead in the book, on her own, and by the end of the year would be several chapters ahead of the rest of the class. The Danica McKellar books weren't available then; those would have been great.

379 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:05:49am

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

Nice... very french.

And quite royal.

380 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:05:56am

re: #372 reine.de.tout

I don't know about everyone, but I'm doing fine.

I'm almost finished with a stained glass class I took; my piece is ready to be soldered. Here it is.

Awesome!

381 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:06:34am

re: #373 Alouette

Nice.

I do have tiny cuts all over my hands, though.
But I worked and worked and worked, and then SUDDENLY, all the pieces were in place and it was done! Weird feeling . . .

382 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:06:53am

re: #379 Decatur Deb

And quite royal.

*ahem*
Of course!

383 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:08:38am

Must run, going up to the craft room to do the soldering and help sis-in-law finish her piece.

I hope you all have a great day!

384 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:09:56am

re: #375 Decatur Deb

The CFs are a stopgap. I'm seeing LED arrays at Sam's that go to 850 lumens. They'll keep improving them and there are other possible fixes out there. (The LEDs are still very expensive, about 25.00 for the 850 'bulb'.) Here in the South, it's not just the inefficiency of the light source, but the waste heat that must be counted on the AC load.

I'm old school I guess. The CF bulbs just don't have the warmth look in a room like standard bulbs do. The issue with mercury in CF bulbs concerns me as well.

385 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:13:20am

re: #372 reine.de.tout

I don't know about everyone, but I'm doing fine.

I'm almost finished with a stained glass class I took; my piece is ready to be soldered. Here it is.

Whoa, that looks great! Nice design Reine.

386 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:14:40am

re: #384 njdhockeyfan

I'm old school I guess. The CF bulbs just don't have the warmth look in a room like standard bulbs do. The issue with mercury in CF bulbs concerns me as well.

Yeah--flourescent spectra tend to suck. I've seen some 'warm white' LEDs. The mercury issue is real, but exaggerated--burning coal to generate wasted power puts out Hg in a less-manageable mode. (Gaaak-it took 3 times longer to correct this than to type it. More coffee.)

387 compound idaho  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:16:04am

re: #375 Decatur Deb

The CFs are a stopgap. I'm seeing LED arrays at Sam's that go to 850 lumens. They'll keep improving them and there are other possible fixes out there. (The LEDs are still very expensive, about 25.00 for the 850 'bulb'.) Here in the South, it's not just the inefficiency of the light source, but the waste heat that must be counted on the AC load.

I have no AC so it was the heat output that convinced me to make the switch to CF. A couple of 100W incandescent can really heat up a room. With no AC it can take a long time for the room to back cool down.

388 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:18:49am

I didn't know about the arsenic in those bulbs.

Eco-friendly LED bulbs loaded with lead, arsenic

The LED bulbs sold as safe and eco-friendly can contain high levels of lead, arsenic and other hazardous substances, a new UC Irvine study shows - the same bulbs widely used in headlights, traffic lights, even holiday lights.

The toxic material could increase the risk of cancer, kidney disease and other illnesses, although the risks are more long-term than immediate; a single exposure to a broken bulb is unlikely to cause illness.

"I wouldn't worry about an immediate release of vapor," said UC Irvine public health and social ecology professor Oladele Ogunseitan, principal investigator and an author of the study. "But still, when these residues hang around the house, if not cleaned up properly they could constitute an eventual danger."

The lights should be treated as hazardous materials, and should not be disposed of in regular landfill trash, he said, because of the risk of leaching into soil and groundwater.

High intensity, red bulbs contained the most arsenic, while low-intensity red lights harbored as much as eight times the amount of lead permitted by state law, the study showed.

White bulbs had low amounts of lead but higher amounts of nickel, also a potentially hazardous substance.

I guess a new 'CF ONLY' trash bin placed next to the plastic, glass, and cardboard bins is just over the horizon.
[sigh]

389 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:19:44am

re: #387 compound idaho

We're running a lot of flourescent in track lights, mixed with small quartz bulbs to get an 'instant-on'. Eventually, we'll move out of the flourescents.

390 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:21:20am

re: #384 njdhockeyfan
Good morning.
Make the real jump past CFL

Anyone interested in top quality LED lights should contact Holly Solar. Petaluma, California. My source for led custom build stuff, real leaders in the field. And no I'm not on commission :-) Even retrofit LED...

391 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:22:53am

re: #384 njdhockeyfan

I'm old school I guess. The CF bulbs just don't have the warmth look in a room like standard bulbs do. The issue with mercury in CF bulbs concerns me as well.

Mercury Emissions Up at Coal-Burning Power Plants

The top 50 most-polluting coal-burning power plants in the United States emitted 20 tons of toxic mercury into the air in 2007, finds a new report from the nonprofit Environmental Integrity Project...Once released into the atmosphere, mercury settles in lakes and rivers, where it moves up the food chain to humans who eat contaminated fish. The Centers for Disease Control has found that six percent of American women have mercury in their blood at levels that would put a fetus at risk of neurological damage.

Compared to...

The amount of mercury in a CFLs glass tubing is minute; each Project Porchlight CFL bulb contains 2.5 mg of mercury, about the size of a period at the end of a sentence. By comparison, watch batteries and four -foot fluorescent tubes contain about 25 mg, older home thermostats contain 500 mg, and older dental fillings contain 100 to 500 mg of mercury.
392 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:23:33am

re: #390 Rightwingconspirator

Good morning.
Make the real jump past CFL

Anyone interested in top quality LED lights should contact Holly Solar. Petaluma, California. My source for led custom build stuff, real leaders in the field. And no I'm not on commission :-) Even retrofit LED...

Not seeing the prices. Any idea of the cost?

393 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:24:09am

re: #367 reine.de.tout

OK, I've gotta brag for


Please, forgive me, this is unseemly to do, I know . . .

Daughter had to take calculus this semester. I fretted and fretted about this, because I've heard so many really awful things about calculus; told her if she found she needed a tutor, be sure to let us know, we'd do whatever we had to do to make sure she passed the course.

Well, turns out - she gets it. She understands it. It's time-consuming; she spends 4-6 hours outside of class working on the assignments, but when I asked her how it was going, her response was, "It's fine. I guess we're still doing the easy stuff".

Easy stuff?

I barely passed basic college math. How I managed to give birth to a kid who likes and understands math is beyond me . . .

Good for her. The funny thing is that, in many ways, Calculus is more fun than much of what comes before. It's especially nice when you suddenly realize you can describe something with an equation that would take a chapter of writing to explain.

394 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:25:20am

re: #388 njdhockeyfan

I didn't know about the arsenic in those bulbs.

Eco-friendly LED bulbs loaded with lead, arsenic

I guess a new 'CF ONLY' trash bin placed next to the plastic, glass, and cardboard bins is just over the horizon.
[sigh]

I'm confused about his risk management. The world is made of lead and arsenic, but most of it isn't in configurations that get to us. I wouldn't have a problem wearing an encapulated asbestos glove, but I would never cut any asbestos-cement on a powersaw.

395 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:27:16am

re: #394 Decatur Deb

Don't forget Aluminum. It exists in nature only as bauxite and other bound forms. Our bodies have no way of dealing with it, it collects in our neurons and starts short-circuiting them.

What was I just talking about?

396 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:27:57am

re: #392 njdhockeyfan

Still a bit high honestly if compared to Chinese made/subsidized CFL. It's worth calling them to find out how much these days. I bought all my stuff a couple years ago.

397 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:28:48am

re: #393 wlewisiii

Good for her. The funny thing is that, in many ways, Calculus is more fun than much of what comes before. It's especially nice when you suddenly realize you can describe something with an equation that would take a chapter of writing to explain.

I enjoyed the pure calculus, it was all the underpining algebra that kicked my ass...

398 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:29:15am

re: #386 Decatur Deb

Yeah--flourescent spectra tend to suck. I've seen some 'warm white' LEDs. The mercury issue is real, but exaggerated--burning coal to generate wasted power puts out Hg in a less-manageable mode. (Gaaak-it took 3 times longer to correct this than to type it. More coffee.)

At the stores around here there are three choices of CF bulbs. Warm which to me seem like a regular bulb, daylight which is a starker brighter light and one that's in between. I have the warm ones in things like lamps and reading lights and the daylight ones in places like the kitchen and workshop where I want a brighter and starker light. If I put a daylight one in my reading lamp it drives me batty but the warm ones work fine.

With that said I'm patiently waiting for LED tech to progress and come down in price. I will at least try out a couple of the LED bulbs the next time any of my CF's burn out even though they're pricey.
I am going to be using LED's in some of the remodeling work. There are some great options out there for non task related lighting and I'm going to be putting some LED's outside where I could use some light to get around at night but don't need the area to be bright, bright.

399 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:29:24am

re: #391 publicityStunted

Mercury Emissions Up at Coal-Burning Power Plants

Compared to...

I don't understand the coal plants vs CF light bulb comparison.

The amount of mercury in a CFLs glass tubing is minute; each Project Porchlight CFL bulb contains 2.5 mg of mercury, about the size of a period at the end of a sentence.

Yup, one bulb is not dangerous at all but what would happen if all light bulbs were changed over and billions of these bulbs were burried in landfills? I would bet you the mercury levels in the water around those landfills would rise, don't ya think?

400 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:29:57am

re: #388 njdhockeyfan

I didn't know about the arsenic in those bulbs.

Eco-friendly LED bulbs loaded with lead, arsenic

I guess a new 'CF ONLY' trash bin placed next to the plastic, glass, and cardboard bins is just over the horizon.
[sigh]

I just take mine to Home Depot. They have a bin for them.

401 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:30:12am

re: #351 wlewisiii

Aw, f*&k, no school in Madison today. About 50% of the teachers have called in "sick" for today's protest against Governor Walker's partisan union busting. While I'm on the teacher's side, having my son home for the day means no house cleaning accomplished for me. Good day for a slow cooker pot roast too.

Maybe we need to import some Cairo attitude in Wisconsin? Wonder how Pharoah Walker would like that? //

I can't say I blame the teachers for protesting. What Walker wants to do is ridiculous.

402 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:30:43am

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

Nice... very french.

I'm putting together a quote to do a job in Aurora. It's only 3 blocks from the apartment complex remodel I did a year or so ago. Keep open a night in April so I can take you to dinner. Possibly kidnap Gus when he wanders outside for cigs and take him too.

403 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:31:31am

re: #400 Jadespring

I just take mine to Home Depot. They have a bin for them.

Good for you. Do you really think everyone will do the same if CF bulbs become the norm?

404 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:31:58am

re: #397 rwdflynavy

I enjoyed the pure calculus, it was all the underpining algebra that kicked my ass...

I liked algebra and calculus. What kicked my ass were geometry and trig. =P

405 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:32:07am

re: #399 njdhockeyfan

Yup, one bulb is not dangerous at all but what would happen if all light bulbs were changed over and billions of these bulbs were burried in landfills? I would bet you the mercury levels in the water around those landfills would rise, don't ya think?

Far more mercury comes from coal-fired power plants than could ever be released from CFL bulbs. And using CFL bulbs reduces electricity use, which in turn would result in fewer emissions from coal-fired plants. That's the point.

406 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:32:56am

re: #404 Lidane

I liked algebra and calculus. What kicked my ass were geometry and trig. =P

I did ok in geo and trig, but algebra has always been my weakness.

407 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:33:01am

re: #402 RogueOne

I'm putting together a quote to do a job in Aurora. It's only 3 blocks from the apartment complex remodel I did a year or so ago. Keep open a night in April so I can take you to dinner. Possibly kidnap Gus when he wanders outside for cigs and take him too.

Keep in touch about it... I'll be happy to meet up with you.

408 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:33:05am

re: #398 Jadespring

Yeah--I've been waiting for useable LED--until recently, the output just hasn't been there. My kid gave me a pocket-size LED flashlight for Christmas. Its single LED, running off one AAA cell, is spectacularly brighter than those of a couple years ago.

409 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:34:00am

re: #405 publicityStunted

Far more mercury comes from coal-fired power plants than could ever be released from CFL bulbs. And using CFL bulbs reduces electricity use, which in turn would result in fewer emissions from coal-fired plants. That's the point.

I still don't get what your point is. Since CF bulbs release less mercury than coal plants that makes them safer than incandescent light bulbs?

410 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:34:26am

re: #399 njdhockeyfan

I don't understand the coal plants vs CF light bulb comparison.

Yup, one bulb is not dangerous at all but what would happen if all light bulbs were changed over and billions of these bulbs were burried in landfills? I would bet you the mercury levels in the water around those landfills would rise, don't ya think?

Yes, they'd have to be managed, and we're not good at that. They're not the best answer for the future.

411 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:35:24am

re: #408 Decatur Deb

Yeah--I've been waiting for useable LED--until recently, the output just hasn't been there. My kid gave me a pocket-size LED flashlight for Christmas. Its single LED, running off one AAA cell, is spectacularly brighter than those of a couple years ago.

I made a 4 foot star and filled it with LED Christmas tree lights. It looked pretty awesome from the road.

412 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:36:26am

re: #403 njdhockeyfan

Good for you. Do you really think everyone will do the same if CF bulbs become the norm?

Probably not. But right now lots of people dispose of tons of crap improperly and put shit where it really shouldn't go. I don't see CF's being anymore of a problem then the problem that already exists with regards to overall out of site out of mind mentality that pervades our culture.

413 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:37:15am

re: #409 njdhockeyfan

I still don't get what your point is. Since CF bulbs release less mercury than coal plants that makes them safer than incandescent light bulbs?

Read this:

How do CFLs result in less mercury in the environment compared to traditional light bulbs? Electricity use is the main source of mercury emissions in the U.S. CFLs use less electricity than incandescent lights, meaning CFLs reduce the amount of mercury into the environment. As shown in the table below, a 13-watt, 8,000-rated-hour-life CFL (60-watt equivalent; a common light bulb type) will save 376 kWh over its lifetime, thus avoiding 4.3 mg of mercury. If the bulb goes to a landfill, overall emissions savings would drop a little, to 3.9 mg. EPA recommends that CFLs are recycled where possible, to maximize mercury savings.

414 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:37:47am

re: #412 Jadespring

Probably not. But right now lots of people dispose of tons of crap improperly and put shit where it really shouldn't go. I don't see CF's being anymore of a problem then the problem that already exists with regards to overall out of site out of mind mentality that pervades our culture.

No, a little more mercury won't hurt anyone.
//

415 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:37:51am

re: #411 njdhockeyfan

I made a 4 foot star and filled it with LED Christmas tree lights. It looked pretty awesome from the road.

This year I used the after-Christmas sales to convert all my holiday stuff to LED. The one outdoor set I tried last year was surprisingly bright. The durability and reliability was probably more important than the efficiency in this case.

416 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:38:06am

re: #408 Decatur Deb

Yeah--I've been waiting for useable LED--until recently, the output just hasn't been there. My kid gave me a pocket-size LED flashlight for Christmas. Its single LED, running off one AAA cell, is spectacularly brighter than those of a couple years ago.

We have a rechargeable spot light flash light that uses LEDs. The think lights up the outside like daylight.

417 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:39:50am

An evening with the Joe's...
[Link: secure.donationsafe.com...]

418 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:41:01am

re: #416 Jadespring

We have a rechargeable spot light flash light that uses LEDs. The think lights up the outside like daylight.

Buying me flashlights at Christmas is a family joke. I'm so hooked on various lanterns and such that my wife says I'm going to the home if I buy another. That and anchors from the flea market.

419 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:42:14am

re: #418 Decatur Deb

Buying me flashlights at Christmas is a family joke. I'm so hooked on various lanterns and such that my wife says I'm going to the home if I buy another. That and anchors from the flea market.

Tell her if she sends you at night, at least with all those flashlights, you'll be able to find your way!

420 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:42:43am

re: #413 publicityStunted

Read this:

What about the areas who get their electricity from Nuclear power plants, wind farms, etc? I would think the CF lights would generate more mercury in the water tables, not less.

421 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:42:45am

re: #418 Decatur Deb

Buying me flashlights at Christmas is a family joke. I'm so hooked on various lanterns and such that my wife says I'm going to the home if I buy another. That and anchors from the flea market.

Just wait until the lights go out in Illinois...

422 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:43:14am

re: #409 njdhockeyfan

Your TV, monitor and computer have far more of an issue with metals that do not belong in water tables.
[Link: takebackmytv.com...]

423 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:43:52am

re: #419 sattv4u2

Tell her if she sends you at night, at least with all those flashlights, you'll be able to find your way!

For a few months our new Harbor Freight gave little 9-LED flashlights every time you visited. It got embarrassing.

424 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:44:52am

Speaking of Joe:

‘Sheriff Joe’ Arpaio Leads in Arizona Poll for Senate Race
[Link: www.rollcall.com...]

425 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:45:36am

re: #423 Decatur Deb

I got 7 or 8 of them.

426 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:46:10am

re: #423 Decatur Deb

For a few months our new Harbor Freight gave little 9-LED flashlights every time you visited. It got embarrassing.

Reminds me of John Pinetts 'chinese buffett" skit

427 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:46:55am

re: #274 engineer dog

actually, just now i am studying suffix trees as a O(n + m) solution to the longest common substring problem

the dynamic programming solution is cool, but it is O(nm)

f(bacon) = O(m) + n O(m)^2

428 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:48:32am

re: #424 RogueOne

See what the polls say after the investigations play out. I read into that some. One interesting thing about the alleged mis-allocation of monies-They went from one enforcement program to another-improper, maybe illegal. But not into his pockets. To me the scary allegations are the attempts to silence his critics by "color of authority" or as empowered as a Sheriff.

429 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:50:20am

re: #420 njdhockeyfan

What about the areas who get their electricity from Nuclear power plants, wind farms, etc? I would think the CF lights would generate more mercury in the water tables, not less.

Tell you what when I see people getting equally upset at all the toxic materials (like mercury) in the oodles of electronic equipment like computers and cellphones that people use and dump like they're nothing and account for the highest percentage of toxic waste in landfills I'll get get excited about light bulbs.

E-waste and toxic materials is way more of an issue in terms of percentages and amounts then light bulbs.

430 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:51:58am

re: #420 njdhockeyfan

What about the areas who get their electricity from Nuclear power plants, wind farms, etc?

It would be great if the majority of US power came from those sources, but it doesn't. For now, when all factors are considered, CFL bulbs (which don't even release mercury at all unless they're broken) result in less pollution than their incandescent counterparts. Or are you so committed to hating environmentalists that you harp on toxic compounds only in electricity-saving products, while ignoring the far greater toxic output from excess electricity use? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

431 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:52:41am

The Voice of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood

Qaradawi advocates establishing a "United Muslim Nations" as a contemporary form of the caliphate and the only alternative to the hegemony of the West. He hates Israel and would love to take up arms himself. In one of his sermons, he asked God "to kill the Jewish Zionists, every last one of them."

In January 2009, he said: "Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the [Jews] people who would punish them for their corruption. The last punishment was carried out by [Adolf] Hitler."

Will this man encourage his brothers in Cairo to uphold the peace treaty with Israel, should the Muslim Brotherhood become part of a government now that Mubarak has resigned?

432 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:54:29am

re: #430 publicityStunted

CFL bulbs (which don't even release mercury at all unless they're broken)

Thank God that never happens when you throw them in the trash!

433 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:55:02am

re: #429 Jadespring

Tell you what when I see people getting equally upset at all the toxic materials (like mercury) in the oodles of electronic equipment like computers and cellphones that people use and dump like they're nothing and account for the highest percentage of toxic waste in landfills I'll get get excited about light bulbs.

E-waste and toxic materials is way more of an issue in terms of percentages and amounts then light bulbs.

One of the great weaknesses from the Green side (my side) is the uninformed emotional response to risk. I have a camera lens that will make a geiger counter scream. My wife wears a beautiful Chinese medallion made of mercury.

434 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:55:14am

re: #429 Jadespring

Just to put some numbers to it. It's estimated that 70% of heavy metals in landfills right now in the US comes from E-waste.

That is things like lead, cadmium, beryllium, mercury, and brominated flame retardants.

And with things like planned obsolescence and lowering costs it's becoming more of an issue as time goes on. More and more is being dumped each year.

435 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:56:15am

re: #428 Rightwingconspirator

See what the polls say after the investigations play out. I read into that some. One interesting thing about the alleged mis-allocation of monies-They went from one enforcement program to another-improper, maybe illegal. But not into his pockets. To me the scary allegations are the attempts to silence his critics by "color of authority" or as empowered as a Sheriff.

I don't think that people care. Joe has been able to get away with everything because people love the "tough on crime" tag. It doesn't matter the guy abuses his office, violates the rights of citizens, or uses his power to "investigate" critics. It's well past disgusting that the man is still in office or has any credibility at all. In honor of the new tone of civility and all that lets just say I hate him.

436 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:57:04am

re: #431 Killgore Trout

He hates Israel and would love to take up arms himself.

Dear Youssef al-Qaradawi

Step 1
buy a gun or a sword
Step 2
drive yourself to the Israeli border
Step 3
LOUDLY proclaim your disdain for the State of Israel
Step 4
Run madly across the border

Mission accomplished

437 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 6:59:54am

re: #393 wlewisiii

Good for her. The funny thing is that, in many ways, Calculus is more fun than much of what comes before. It's especially nice when you suddenly realize you can describe something with an equation that would take a chapter of writing to explain.

Back when I was a freshman in college my father (a mechanical engineer) asked me to figure something out for him. My father pursued intellectual stimulation of his children by playing classical music at dinner and/or asking questions (including the classic "why do you put salt in ice cream".

What he asked me to work out was measuring how much liquid was in a railroad tank car simply by putting a stick in the top and recording the depth of the liquid in said car. Sounds simple, doesn't it? *

At the time I was taking Calculus I, and had trouble making headway against this test problem. Two years later, when I was taking Calculus III I presented him with a solution.

Note 1: Rail tank cars are essentially cylinders lying on their sides - except that thay tend to have curved hemispherical end caps.

Note 2: Since I ended up working with rail transportation apps I happen to know now that railcar makers issue books that tell you what the gauge tables are for the cars they make. Essentially they've done the work and the table will tell you that 65" of liquid in car UTLX123456 is equal to 35,000 gallons.

438 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:00:06am

re: #436 sattv4u2

He hates Israel and would love to take up arms himself.

Dear Youssef al-Qaradawi

Step 1
buy a gun or a sword
Step 2
drive yourself to the Israeli border
Step 3
LOUDLY proclaim your disdain for the State of Israel
Step 4
Run madly across the border

Mission accomplished

Step 5

End up looking like this guy

[Link: cptpatches.wordpress.com...]

439 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:00:39am

re: #433 Decatur Deb

One of the great weaknesses from the Green side (my side) is the uninformed emotional response to risk. I have a camera lens that will make a geiger counter scream. My wife wears a beautiful Chinese medallion made of mercury.

Lots of thorium glass was used in the 50's & 60's. I used to own a couple like that but didn't want to deal with the yellowing the radiation causes. Has your lens turned yellow?

440 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:03:18am

re: #439 wlewisiii

Lots of thorium glass was used in the 50's & 60's. I used to own a couple like that but didn't want to deal with the yellowing the radiation causes. Has your lens turned yellow?

Thats kinda personal, no!?
/

441 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:03:45am

re: #439 wlewisiii

Lots of thorium glass was used in the 50's & 60's. I used to own a couple like that but didn't want to deal with the yellowing the radiation causes. Has your lens turned yellow?

Very slightly, much less than a K2 filter would produce. It's a 7" Aero Ektar someone modified to a Canon mount.

442 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:04:32am

re: #432 sattv4u2

CFL bulbs (which don't even release mercury at all unless they're broken)

Thank God that never happens when you throw them in the trash!

Heh :)

443 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:04:43am

re: #436 sattv4u2

He hates Israel and would love to take up arms himself.

Dear Youssef al-Qaradawi

Step 1
buy a gun or a sword
Step 2
drive yourself to the Israeli border
Step 3
LOUDLY proclaim your disdain for the State of Israel
Step 4
Run madly across the border

Mission accomplished

It doesn't matter what I do, people need to hear what I have to say. There's no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn't matter what I live.

(Guess who)

444 laZardo  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:05:06am

re: #438 sattv4u2

Step 5

End up looking like this guy

[Link: cptpatches.wordpress.com...]

Step 6

PROFIT!

/obligatory

445 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:05:17am

Is it me or did John Mayer turn into Johnny Depp?

Image: chace-crawford-john-mayer-pre-grammy-gala-12.jpg

Image: johnny-depp1.jpg

446 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:05:49am

re: #443 jamesfirecat

It doesn't matter what I do, people need to hear what I have to say. There's no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn't matter what I live.

(Guess who)

THE (Guess who)

[Link: www.google.com...]

447 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:06:18am

re: #445 lawhawk

Is it me or did John Mayer turn into Johnny Depp?

Image: chace-crawford-john-mayer-pre-grammy-gala-12.jpg

Image: johnny-depp1.jpg

wow,, talk about separated at birth!

448 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:07:47am

re: #443 jamesfirecat

It doesn't matter what I do, people need to hear what I have to say. There's no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn't matter what I live.

(Guess who)

Don't need Google, that's Papa Newt.

449 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:12:53am

re: #441 Decatur Deb

Very slightly, much less than a K2 filter would produce. It's a 7" Aero Ektar someone modified to a Canon mount.

An Aero-Ektar to FL mount? That took some wee bit of machining I'll bet. I usually only see them adapted to view cameras - they're popular with Speed Graphic (ab)users.

450 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:15:55am

re: #449 wlewisiii

An Aero-Ektar to FL mount? That took some wee bit of machining I'll bet. I usually only see them adapted to view cameras - they're popular with Speed Graphic (ab)users.

Guy did a good job, but only took it to the old 'R' series mount via track bellows. I've got an 'R' from 1959, and a couple from the A-1 era.

451 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:22:18am

re: #450 Decatur Deb

Guy did a good job, but only took it to the old 'R' series mount via track bellows. I've got an 'R' from 1959, and a couple from the A-1 era.

That makes more sense.

These days my only Canon is a late black FTbN. Really nice but I got myself a Nikon F2 recently and have been shooting it almost excessively as it's my first Nikon. I've been a Canonista in the SLR world till now ;)

452 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:23:23am

About that "fiscal conservatism".....

Boehner's Spending Cuts Would Kill 1 Million Jobs

At a press conference yesterday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) told reporters that if some federal jobs were lost as a result of his proposed spending cuts, "so be it."

How many jobs are we talking about? According to federal budget expert Scott Lilly at the Center for American Progress, Boehner's proposed spending cuts could kill almost 1 million jobs

453 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:23:27am

Rain in So Cal. Typical disaster. :)

454 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:23:29am

A bit of a comment. Yes I am a cynic. As a society we've been using a dumping crap into the environment for decades. As a species we are full of these chemicals. Right now the most chemically contaminated foodstuff in N. America is breast milk. Don't believe me? Look it up. Test have shown upwards of 200 human produced chemical compounds in breast milk, every thing from heavy metals, PCBS, dioxins and flame retardents and on and on. What we put out comes back. Maybe people have heard about polar bears or Beluga whales that have been found to have high concentrations chemicals, or fish that have levels of mercury in them. This is just a given, yet barely anyone ever considers that humans, being not only high up on the food chain but surrounded by the stuff in our daily lives would experience the same thing.

Fact is we do. Go get your blood tested and see just how much of chemical soup is in your body right now.

So here we have people suddenly freaking out about mercury in light bulbs. End of the world to some people. Now if I in any way thought that this was some sort of awakening and the issue around CFs and mercury were this sudden sort of widespread ecological recognition of a wider issue of how humans put crap in our environment and that CF concerned people would then move on to addressing even bigger issues of contamination then I'd be swinging in trees with joy.

Don't see it though. What I see most right now is it being turned into something political. A wedge. A hammer. Something that's just useful for the political left/right fight. That's not suggesting that some people are concerned because they do understand the wider issue of industrial contamination and ecological and human health. There are many that do.
However cynically I also see a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon because it's become a politcal talking point and a way to hammer the 'enemy' in whatever form the enemy is perceived.

455 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:25:00am

re: #453 Stanley Sea

Rain in So Cal. Typical disaster. :)

We're getting some unexpected snow in Oregon this morning.

456 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:26:17am

re: #454 Jadespring

Well said. We see the same thing over and over again.

457 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:26:21am

re: #455 Killgore Trout

We're getting some unexpected snow in Oregon this morning.

You live in OREGON!

How is SNOW "unexpected"!!!
///

458 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:26:22am

Maddow owns Boehners first month:

459 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:29:26am

re: #451 wlewisiii

That makes more sense.

These days my only Canon is a late black FTbN. Really nice but I got myself a Nikon F2 recently and have been shooting it almost excessively as it's my first Nikon. I've been a Canonista in the SLR world till now ;)

I've pretty much stopped shooting, now. I'm waiting for affordable digital in the 20 megapixel range, with interchangeability. We're almost there.

460 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:30:13am
461 njdhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:30:18am

Hezbollah shitbag speaks...

Hezbollah to take Galilee in next war with Israel: Nasrallah

BEIRUT, Feb 16, 2011 (AFP) - Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah on Wednesday called on his fighters to stand ready to take Galilee should another war with its archfoe Israel "be imposed," without elaborating.

462 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:33:30am

Warning to the DC parents, those teachers fired for hitting/screwing their kids are on the way back:


[Link: washingtonexaminer.com...]

An independent arbitrator in Montgomery County has ordered the District of Columbia Public Schools to rehire 75 teachers who were fired in 2008 by former Chancellor Michelle Rhee for, among other things, being AWOL from school for weeks at a time, not preparing lesson plans, cursing at students, poor classroom management and high levels of student failure. Nathan Saunders, head of the Washington Teachers' Union, expects that 80 more probationary teachers fired by Rhee on similar grounds in 2009 likewise will be reinstated. All will be given full back pay and compensation from their termination dates.

463 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:33:39am

re: #460 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts think losing a million jobs is just peachy...
Doocy And Perino Agree With Boehner's Endorsement Of Federal Job Losses Due To GOP Cuts

OR

They think cutting the size and scope of the fed gov't is a necessity and would rather those "shovel ready jobs" be provided by the private sector!

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out a different way the headline could have been written!

464 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:34:48am

re: #463 sattv4u2

OR

They think cutting the size and scope of the fed gov't is a necessity and would rather those "shovel ready jobs" be provided by the private sector!

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out a different way the headline could have been written!

How do you make the private sector provide shovel ready jobs?

465 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:36:22am

re: #464 jamesfirecat

How do you make the private sector provide shovel ready jobs?

SOCIALISM!!11

466 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:36:49am

re: #464 jamesfirecat

How do you make the private sector provide shovel ready jobs?

You don't "make them"

You allow them by having reasonable tax codes, reasonable oversights amongst other things

467 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:36:58am

re: #463 sattv4u2

It was an MM headline, how do you think they're going to play it? I think it's sad that 1 million people may lose their jobs.....should be 1.4 million.//

468 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:37:20am

re: #462 RogueOne

Warning to the DC parents, those teachers fired for hitting/screwing their kids are on the way back:


[Link: washingtonexaminer.com...]


But teachers unions are great, really.//

469 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:37:44am

re: #466 sattv4u2

You don't "make them"

You allow them by having reasonable tax codes, reasonable oversights amongst other things

And if they still don't feel like doing it?

470 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:37:52am

re: #468 rwdflynavy

But teachers unions are great, really.//

They do it for the love.

471 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:37:53am

re: #459 Decatur Deb

I've pretty much stopped shooting, now. I'm waiting for affordable digital in the 20 megapixel range, with interchangeability. We're almost there.

I like the 88 megapixels I can get out of Tri-X too much.//
(Technically it adds up t about that for film. LOL)

Seriously, for me, digital is nice for snapshots with a phone but my scanner can still pull more out of film than the sensors can put in the file in the first place. Plus I enjoy the process - OTOH, I'm not trying to make a living with a camera either :eek:

472 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:38:21am

re: #470 RogueOne

They do it for the love.

Given what we pay them in this country I can't figure out what else they could be doing it for....

473 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:39:07am

re: #466 sattv4u2

You don't "make them"

You allow them by having reasonable tax codes, reasonable oversights amongst other things

None of that is anywhere near as immeidate for getting an economy back up and running - and i'm not sure how many altruistic construction firm bosses have said "lets build a new bridge over that gorge to replace the crumbling one now that we are getting a nickel back in tax"

474 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:39:28am

re: #469 jamesfirecat

And if they still don't feel like doing it?

Tough shit, prole.

475 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:39:44am

re: #468 rwdflynavy

But teachers unions are great, really.//

There is a chance bad apples will get back in, but it looks like the"independant arbitrator", not the unions. Were there widespread failures in the attempt to find a quick-fix?

476 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:39:54am

re: #469 jamesfirecat

And if they still don't feel like doing it?

"make them"
"feel like"

heh,,

You do know the private sector is in it to make a profit, right?
Profit comes from more productivity. More productivity comes from less restraint (i.e. taxes)
More productivity demands more workers
More workers produce more tax revenues
More tax revenues produce ,,,,,

gggeeezzzz

477 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:40:14am

re: #474 iossarian

Tough shit, prole.

Or, to put it another way: "I've got mine, fuck you."

478 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:40:50am

re: #476 sattv4u2

"make them"
"feel like"

heh,,

You do know the private sector is in it to make a profit, right?
Profit comes from more productivity. More productivity comes from less restraint (i.e. taxes)
More productivity demands more workers
More workers produce more tax revenues
More tax revenues produce ,,,

gggeeezzz

If that's the case how come we had pretty pathetic job growth throughout George W Bush's years in office?

479 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:41:56am

re: #478 jamesfirecat

If that's the case how come we had pretty pathetic job growth throughout George W Bush's years in office?

Yeah , that 4-5 percent unemployment rate sucked!

480 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:42:02am

re: #476 sattv4u2

"make them"
"feel like"

heh,,

You do know the private sector is in it to make a profit, right?
Profit comes from more productivity. More productivity comes from less restraint (i.e. taxes)
More productivity demands more workers
More workers produce more tax revenues
More tax revenues produce ,,,

gggeeezzz

and when there is no private money in the economy with which to spur demand for goods and services to create the jobs making all the extra stuff?

481 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:42:18am

re: #430 publicityStunted

It would be great if the majority of US power came from those sources, but it doesn't. For now, when all factors are considered, CFL bulbs (which don't even release mercury at all unless they're broken) result in less pollution than their incandescent counterparts. Or are you so committed to hating environmentalists that you harp on toxic compounds only in electricity-saving products, while ignoring the far greater toxic output from excess electricity use? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So, to recap:

In the aggregate, the use of CFLs results in a net decrease of mercury released into the environment. I think we all agree that is a good thing.

If you get your power from wind, solar or nuclear (lucky you!), then your use of CFLs may have other benefits, but mercury reduction is not one of them. (Although hardly anyone gets their power exclusively from wind/solar, given those sources' unreliability as base load power, what with the wind not always blowing and the sun not always shining. So the number of people getting mercury-free power must be relatively small.)

But the amounts of mercury potentially released into a given household by CFLs are so low as to be unmeasurable. The source above told us that newer bulbs are down to 1 milligram of mercury per bulb, most of which gets bound to the glass of the bulb through use, leaving (their number) only 11% of that in a form that can migrate from the bulb to the air or water upon disposal. So we are down to 11% of 1 milligram of mercury available to contaminate your household if you dispose of the bulb by breaking it open and pouring its contents into your water.

So while there might be a rational reason to not use CFLs, mercury contamination is not one of them.

482 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:42:27am

re: #478 jamesfirecat

re: #479 sattv4u2

Yeah , that 4-5 percent unemployment rate sucked!

We're MUCH better off now that it's 10+!!!

483 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:43:10am

re: #479 sattv4u2

Yeah , that 4-5 percent unemployment rate sucked!


And all that federal oversight of the house of cards created by laissez faire economic policies worked out just great

484 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:43:17am

re: #476 sattv4u2


More productivity demands more workers

No it doesn't. All else being equal (i.e., output remaining constant), more productivity means fewer workers.

If you're going to make pseudo-economic arguments, at least think about them for a few seconds before posting.

485 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:43:34am

re: #482 sattv4u2

re: #479 sattv4u2


We're MUCH better off now that it's 10+!!!

WOO OBAMA RECESSION ELEVENTY!!!

486 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:44:03am

re: #478 jamesfirecat

If that's the case how come we had pretty pathetic job growth throughout George W Bush's years in office?

Because real world doesn't always match theory economic dogma world.

The lower tax = more job theory world is one of those areas where theory and reality don't always match up. Real world refuses to cooperate at times. The nerve of it really.

487 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:44:19am

re: #463 sattv4u2

OR

They think cutting the size and scope of the fed gov't is a necessity and would rather those "shovel ready jobs" be provided by the private sector!

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out a different way the headline could have been written!

It's red meat pandering to their anti-government base. Throwing away a million jobs would be very bad for the country and the health of the economy. It's stupid and dangerous.

488 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:44:26am

re: #479 sattv4u2

Yeah , that 4-5 percent unemployment rate sucked!

Jobs Created under Clinton 23.1 Million

Jobs Created under Bush.... 3 Million.

Wow that tax cut for the rich really spurred the economy into making more jobs didn't it?

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

489 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:44:27am

re: #485 wozzablog

WOO OBAMA RECESSION ELEVENTY!!!

Financial meltdown all Obama's fault. He caused it by going back in time and deregulating the financial industry.

490 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:44:32am

re: #480 wozzablog

and when there is no private money in the economy with which to spur demand for goods and services to create the jobs making all the extra stuff?

Actually, there is a LOT of "private money". It's just that most buig companies are sitting on it not knowing the true extent of what the tax rates are going to be, how much the health ins regs are really going to cost them, etc etc

But you knew that, didn't you

491 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:45:00am

re: #462 RogueOne

Warning to the DC parents, those teachers fired for hitting/screwing their kids are on the way back:

[Link: washingtonexaminer.com...]

Nowhere in that article, nor any I've found so far, have I found any of the teachers coming back charged with screwing their kids. Nor have I found any accused of hitting kids. Shouting at? yes. Poor performance? yes. Those are valid concerns, I agree.

But if you lie by exaggerating the problem it makes me doubt the legitimacy of any points you raise.

492 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:45:26am

re: #479 sattv4u2

Yeah , that 4-5 percent unemployment rate sucked!

The unemployment rate was 8.5 when Pres Bush left office. It coasted up to 9.6.

[Link: www.city-data.com...]

493 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:45:36am

re: #482 sattv4u2

re: #479 sattv4u2

We're MUCH better off now that it's 10+!!!

It all wen to hell under Bush.

And if memory serves it went to hell because no one was regulating the businesses allowing them to hide how badly they were doing....

Am I incorrect?

494 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:46:15am

re: #487 Killgore Trout

It's red meat pandering to their anti-government base. Throwing away a million jobs would be very bad for the country and the health of the economy. It's stupid and dangerous.

Those jobs are unsustainable with over 10% of the workforce out of jobs
For every $60,000 a year gov;t employee there is, how many private sector taxpayers does it take to fund just the salary, let alone the bennies

495 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:46:25am

re: #472 jamesfirecat

Given what we pay them in this country I can't figure out what else they could be doing it for...

about that....
Payscale
[Link: www.payscale.com...]

CA teachers pension:
[Link: database.californiapensionreform.com...]

IL teachers pension:
[Link: www.theneweditor.com...]

496 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:46:39am

re: #490 sattv4u2

Actually, there is a LOT of "private money". It's just that most buig companies are sitting on it not knowing the true extent of what the tax rates are going to be, how much the health ins regs are really going to cost them, etc etc because there is no demand for anything, which in turn is because no-one has any money, because there are no jobs.

Fixed.


But you knew that, didn't you

The idea that uncertainty around tax regulations is holding down employment is highly questionable and has been debunked here time and time again.

497 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:47:00am

re: #492 Decatur Deb

The unemployment rate was 8.5 when Pres Bush left office. It coasted up to 9.6.

[Link: www.city-data.com...]

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?

498 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:47:17am

re: #490 sattv4u2

Actually, there is a LOT of "private money". It's just that most buig companies are sitting on it not knowing the true extent of what the tax rates are going to be, how much the health ins regs are really going to cost them, etc etc

But you knew that, didn't you

Its amazing how some people are so distrustful of government and yet so ready to put themselves at a corporations beck and call....

499 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:48:15am

re: #491 kirkspencer

Nowhere in that article, nor any I've found so far, have I found any of the teachers coming back charged with screwing their kids. Nor have I found any accused of hitting kids. Shouting at? yes. Poor performance? yes. Those are valid concerns, I agree.

But if you lie by exaggerating the problem it makes me doubt the legitimacy of any points you raise.

DON'T YOU REALIZE UNIONS ARE BAD?

BAD BAD BAD! BAD UNIONS!

500 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:48:35am

re: #490 sattv4u2

Actually, there is a LOT of "private money". It's just that most buig companies are sitting on it not knowing the true extent of what the tax rates are going to be, how much the health ins regs are really going to cost them, etc etc

But you knew that, didn't you

Private money as in consumer money.

Consumers spur growth through their spending - companies can not impose demand on consumers if the consumer has nothing to spend. It's a fairly basic economic concept.

Consumers have no extra cash - after paying - ironically enough - for their healthcare bills - etc.

501 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:48:37am

re: #498 jamesfirecat

Its amazing how some people are so distrustful of government and yet so ready to put themselves at a corporations beck and call...

As I'm on hold with a CSR in India.

Puleeze.

502 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:48:48am

re: #496 iossarian

Fixed.

The idea that uncertainty around tax regulations is holding down employment is highly questionable and has been debunked here time and time again.

I see,, becuase it's been "debunked here"

How many Human Resource managers have you spoken too? I have talked to at least a half dozen in some fortune 500 companies and they say the same thing

503 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:49:13am

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?

And prior to 9/11 there were no terrorists attacks under Bush!

As long as you look at the data before he messed up he looks great!

504 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:49:18am

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?

You pretty much own the results you leave, not what you inherit.

505 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:50:00am

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?


That was spent creating the conditions for epic clusterfuck.

You do realise shit doesn't happen in a vacuum??

506 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:50:16am

re: #491 kirkspencer

Nowhere in that article, nor any I've found so far, have I found any of the teachers coming back charged with screwing their kids. Nor have I found any accused of hitting kids. Shouting at? yes. Poor performance? yes. Those are valid concerns, I agree.

But if you lie by exaggerating the problem it makes me doubt the legitimacy of any points you raise.

Sorry, neglected to add the second link:

[Link: www.fastcompany.com...]


Eighteen months after we profiled Washington, D.C., schools chancellor Michelle Rhee ("The Iron Chancellor," September 2008), she still hasn't won union approval of a new contract. After the October layoffs of 266 teachers and staff, the union claimed Rhee used a budget crunch as a pretext for dismissing veteran teachers, since seniority rules don't cover cuts for fiscal reasons. "I got rid of teachers who had hit children, who had had sex with children, who had missed 78 days of school," Rhee says. "Why wouldn't we take those things into consideration?"

507 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:50:23am

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?

When he doing everything possible to dismantle regulatory oversight while charging two wars off the books?

508 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:50:40am

re: #498 jamesfirecat

Its amazing how some people are so distrustful of government and yet so ready to put themselves at a corporations beck and call...

Try again. I'm not in any way shape of form distrustful of government

I just realistically understand it has gotten too large to sustain under these circumstances

Answer the question I posed in #494

509 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:50:50am

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?

Found this....

The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate rose from 4.2% in January 2001, peaking at 6.3% in June 2003 and reaching a trough of 4.4% in March 2007. After an economic slowdown, the rate rose again to 6.1% in August 2008 and up to 7.2% in December 2008.[56] From December 2007 when the recession started to December 2008, an additional 3.6 million people became unemployed.[57] And, in January 2009, his last month in office, the nation lost 655,000 jobs, raising the unemployment rate to 7.6 percent, the highest level in more than 15 years.[58]


So under his admin it went up, it went down and then it started going up again.

510 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:51:31am

re: #503 jamesfirecat

And prior to 9/11 there were no terrorists attacks under Bush!

As long as you look at the data before he messed up he looks great!

There weren't?

Wow ,, lots of people that lived through WTC 1 will be happy!

511 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:52:04am

re: #508 sattv4u2

Try again. I'm not in any way shape of form distrustful of government

I just realistically understand it has gotten too large to sustain under these circumstances

Answer the question I posed in #494

I'd say it probably takes more than one private sector job in order to make there be enough tax money to pay the public sector employees.

What is the point you are trying to make with this question?

512 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:53:22am

re: #510 sattv4u2

There weren't?

Wow ,, lots of people that lived through WTC 1 will be happy!

You missed the under Bush part.... so the first bombing which happened Under Clinton doesn't count.

513 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:53:33am

re: #511 jamesfirecat

I'd say it probably takes more than one private sector job in order to make there be enough tax money to pay the public sector employees.

What is the point you are trying to make with this question?

ONE!?!?

OMG!!!

One 60K private sector taxpayer pays in to the fed gov't how much?

You think THAT pays salary and bennies for one 60K FED employee!?!?

wow

514 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:54:00am

Three places where GOP cuts would hurt

Police, Environment and global health programs.

515 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:54:05am

re: #512 jamesfirecat

You missed the under Bush part... so the first bombing which happened Under Clinton doesn't count.

Yes ,, sorry ,, missed "under Bush"

In that case, I have no idea what your point is

516 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:54:21am

re: #513 sattv4u2

ONE!?!?

OMG!!!

One 60K private sector taxpayer pays in to the fed gov't how much?

You think THAT pays salary and bennies for one 60K FED employee!?!?

wow

Why don't you tell me the number so I learn something rather than just mocking my ignorance?

517 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:55:46am

re: #515 sattv4u2

Yes ,, sorry ,, missed "under Bush"

In that case, I have no idea what your point is

My point was that ignoring how Bush did fine until he didn't on the economy is a stupid way of looking at this.

It's like saying, forget about Black Thursday and everything after it, what was the Unemployment rate under Hoover like before that happened?

518 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:56:13am

re: #514 Killgore Trout

Three places where GOP cuts would hurt

Police, Environment and global health programs.

FTA:


The proposed $100 billion cut is equal to 2.7 percent of total federal spending this fiscal year.

2.7%? Good lord man, how will they ever survive?//

519 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:56:33am

re: #516 jamesfirecat

Why don't you tell me the number so I learn something rather than just mocking my ignorance?

He didn't even read your comment properly. You clearly said it "probably takes more than one".

But I have a better idea - let's ask how many private sector tax-paying employees it takes to fund the billions of dollars in wasteful weapons programs the Pentagon doesn't even want!

520 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:57:16am

re: #513 sattv4u2

ONE!?!?

OMG!!!

One 60K private sector taxpayer pays in to the fed gov't how much?

You think THAT pays salary and bennies for one 60K FED employee!?!?

wow

Our Army organization had a recurring angst: "Who do we work for, the commander, the soldier, the government?" My stock answer, after doing the math, was "I work for the last seven steelworkers in Pittsburgh."

521 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:57:16am

re: #519 publicityStunted


But I have a better idea - let's ask how many private sector tax-paying employees it takes to fund the billions of dollars in wasteful weapons programs the Pentagon doesn't even want!


Do you mean the ones that happen to be employing people in Boehner's back yard?

522 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:57:46am

re: #516 jamesfirecat

Why don't you tell me the number so I learn something rather than just mocking my ignorance?

Do some basic math

Lets say a 60K private employee is in the 25% tax bracket

Thats 15K in fed taxes

It takes 4 private taxpayers at 15K eacj just to pay that fed employees salary

Probably takes at least 2 more to offset bennies

Thats at least 6!

So ,,, one million (the number the proposes cuts) takes 6 MILLION private sector payers

And all those 6 million JUST goes to those 1 million salaries,, NOT a dime of that gets to the military, the infrastructure, the elderly, the schools,,

523 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:58:10am

re: #499 iossarian

DON'T YOU REALIZE UNIONS ARE BAD?

BAD BAD BAD! BAD UNIONS!

heh.

The teachers are being allowed back in because proper process wasn't followed. The principals had given them a bad review and they were dismissed.

Now since I've been exactly in this situation - both as the firer and the fired - I'll say what PROBABLY happened is that there was no review or chance for rebuttal.

See, one of the things the union does is insist that I can't fire someone just because I don't like them. One of the particularly nasty tricks some managers like to do is make a bad review and use that to fire someone, even though the review is, at best, only part of the truth. Example: I got a bad review as a librarian in a prison the same year I won grants for the library, got recognition for my library being one of the first 10% in the state to meet the new standards, improved the process for GED testing, and got recognition for coming in when a blizzard that shut things down was on the way so that security stations could be covered. None of the positives was mentioned. As for the negatives, there was no documentation. My regular reviews, my timesheets, nothing.

Now, I suspect some of these teachers, even most of them, should be fired. But there's a process in place to prevent people who have to balance a budget from firing the highest paid employees; to prevent people of one political persuasion from firing those who stand in the opposite house; from removing those who do not worship their every crap in the toilet. And from what I can read that was ignored.

If they're that bad, it should not be that hard to do it right. If those in charge don't want to do THAT right, what else aren't they doing right?

524 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:59:33am

re: #519 publicityStunted

He didn't even read your comment properly. You clearly said it "probably takes more than one".

But I have a better idea - let's ask how many private sector tax-paying employees it takes to fund the billions of dollars in wasteful weapons programs the Pentagon doesn't even want!

Heh. My link to the MAddow show above (somewhere) - Boenher is (personally) pushing for billions for jet engines the military doesn't want :p

525 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 7:59:45am

re: #522 sattv4u2

Do some basic math

Lets say a 60K private employee is in the 25% tax bracket

Thats 15K in fed taxes

It takes 4 private taxpayers at 15K eacj just to pay that fed employees salary

Probably takes at least 2 more to offset bennies

Thats at least 6!

So ,,, one million (the number the proposes cuts) takes 6 MILLION private sector payers

And all those 6 million JUST goes to those 1 million salaries,, NOT a dime of that gets to the military, the infrastructure, the elderly, the schools,,

So in other words you need six private sector employees for every public sector one.

So for every six employees laid off by the public sector it behooves the government to lay off one of their own people?

Do I read you correctly?

526 talking point detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:00:04am

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes, when he LEFT office

How about the 7 years prior?


President George W. Bush entered office in 2001 just as a recession was starting, and is preparing to leave in the middle of a long one. That’s almost 22 months of recession during his 96 months in office.

His job-creation record won’t look much better. The Bush administration created about three million jobs (net) over its eight years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Bill Clinton’s administration and only slightly better than President George H.W. Bush did in his four years in office.

Here’s a look at job creation under each president since the Labor Department started keeping payroll records in 1939. The counts are based on total payrolls between the start of the month the president took office (using the final payroll count for the end of the prior December) and his final December in office.

Because the size of the economy and labor force varies, we also calculate in percentage terms how much the total payroll count expanded under each president. The current President Bush, once taking account how long he’s been in office, shows the worst track record for job creation since the government began keeping records. –Sudeep Reddy

527 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:00:43am

re: #518 RogueOne

FTA:

2.7%? Good lord man, how will they ever survive?//

They? How will we survive? It's not only the loss of a million jobs but that means job seekers will be competing with a million new applicants. I used to consider myself a fiscal conservative but it's reckless and stupid bullshit like this that drove me away. Anti-government bullshit is not a roadmap for financial recovery.

528 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:00:47am

re: #525 jamesfirecat

So in other words you need six private sector employees for every public sector one.

So for every six employees laid off by the public sector it behooves the government to lay off one of their own people?

Do I read you correctly?

No,, it "behooves" the gov't to act responsibly and realize that gov't salaries have to come from somewhere

529 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:00:51am

re: #523 kirkspencer

......
If they're that bad, it should not be that hard to do it right. If those in charge don't want to do THAT right, what else aren't they doing right?

The one thing they were doing right, before she lost her job, was teaching kids:

The release of 2009 test scores was good news for Rhee: Only D.C. and four states showed gains in math for fourth and eighth graders. "We're not good yet," she says, "but I'm seeing the quality of instruction improving."

I was under the assumption that teaching kids and improving scores was the bigger part of their jobs.

530 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:00:56am

re: #525 jamesfirecat

You left out a very important mention of what he left out - namely, the Federal employees pay taxes as well! And buy stuff from private sector employees, thus helping to ensure they have jobs!

531 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:01:32am

re: #522 sattv4u2

Do some basic math

Lets say a 60K private employee is in the 25% tax bracket

Thats 15K in fed taxes

It takes 4 private taxpayers at 15K eacj just to pay that fed employees salary

Probably takes at least 2 more to offset bennies

Thats at least 6!

So ,,, one million (the number the proposes cuts) takes 6 MILLION private sector payers

And all those 6 million JUST goes to those 1 million salaries,, NOT a dime of that gets to the military, the infrastructure, the elderly, the schools,,

6 million isn't really that many. About 2% of the population.

532 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:02:08am

re: #528 sattv4u2

No,, it "behooves" the gov't to act responsibly and realize that gov't salaries have to come from somewhere

Okay.

I don't disagree with you.

But I feel that without money in people's pockets it won't matter how lax our regulation of business is, nobody will make anything because nobody will have money to buy things...

And tax breaks don't help much when you don't have a job to get taxed....

533 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:02:29am

re: #530 publicityStunted

You left out a very important mention of what he left out - namely, the Federal employees pay taxes as well! And buy stuff from private sector employees, thus helping to ensure they have jobs!

That they do. So they kick in 1/6th of their own salary and bennies, which leaves 5/6th funded by private sector taxpayers!

there,, feel better now??

534 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:03:00am

re: #527 Killgore Trout

They? How will we survive? It's not only the loss of a million jobs but that means job seekers will be competing with a million new applicants. I used to consider myself a fiscal conservative but it's reckless and stupid bullshit like this that drove me away. Anti-government bullshit is not a roadmap for financial recovery.

It's an incredible stretch to believe that a federal government that increased discretionary spending by over 200% in the last decade cannot afford a 2.7% budget decrease. If we've arrived at the point where we're counting on federal jobs to keep our heads above water then we're already screwed.

535 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:03:09am

re: #530 publicityStunted

You left out a very important mention of what he left out - namely, the Federal employees pay taxes as well! And buy stuff from private sector employees, thus helping to ensure they have jobs!

So then it's really 5 private sector worker for one public. The public guy pays for part of their salary.

536 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:03:57am

re: #531 Jadespring

6 million isn't really that many. About 2% of the population.

We're not talking "the population"

We're talking "work force"

Different numberre: #535 Jadespring

So then it's really 5 private sector worker for one public. The public guy pays for part of their salary.

see #533

537 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:04:06am

re: #525 jamesfirecat

This is such a stupid and pointless argument.

Most Western European countries have much larger governments than we do, as a percentage of GDP.

There are a bunch of things that need to get done, like fixing roads, running schools, improving hospitals. There's this right-wing fantasy that the government is bad at doing these things, but it's really not true.

You decide what needs to happen, and then you raise taxes and pay people to do it. It's a democratic process.

Unfortunately, rich people in the US are far more able to use their wealth to distort the political process, and as a result you get people who would be demonstrably better off under a larger government voting for policies that benefit the top 1% of society and no-one else.

538 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:04:11am

re: #534 RogueOne

It's an incredible stretch to believe that a federal government that increased discretionary spending by over 200% in the last decade cannot afford a 2.7% budget decrease. If we've arrived at the point where we're counting on federal jobs to keep our heads above water then we're already screwed.

What ended the great depression?

539 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:04:51am

re: #538 jamesfirecat

What ended the great depression?

World War II.

540 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:05:10am

re: #538 jamesfirecat

What ended the great depression?

Viagra!

541 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:05:11am

re: #535 Jadespring

So then it's really 5 private sector worker for one public. The public guy pays for part of their salary.

If we nationalize *everything* and put *everyone* on the government payroll then our government will be able to pay for itself!

Socialism, capitalism, yada, yada, yada...
//

542 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:05:30am

re: #538 jamesfirecat

What ended the great depression?

WW2. What country do you think is asking for an invasion?

543 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:05:46am

re: #536 sattv4u2

We're not talking "the population"

We're talking "work force"

Yes I know that.

544 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:06:11am

Work to do. BBL

545 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:06:26am

re: #506 RogueOne

Sorry, neglected to add the second link:

[Link: www.fastcompany.com...]

OK, with that I went looking. This article notes the details that even yours misses.

One teacher accused of sex with students, denies charges, case still under investigation, has been on administrative leave pending resolution. (Wait, since May of 2009?) Six corporal punishment cases, two AWOL cases. Nine teachers out of 266 who were fired.

I retract the accusation of lying, and apologize. But I think Ms. Rhee pulled a fast one with that line, herself, tarring 266 people with the taint of less than 3%.

546 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:06:48am

re: #539 Alouette

World War II.

Yep, a MASSIVE SURGE in government employees since we had to pay the people we drafted.

Also a MASSSIVE SURGE in production of things as the government demanded that companies like Ford start turning out tanks and bombers.

So the worst financial crisis in American history came to an end when the government started creating jobs at an amazing rate.... I think there could be a lesson here but I'm not quite sure what it is....

547 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:06:56am

re: #522 sattv4u2

Do some basic math

Lets say a 60K private employee is in the 25% tax bracket

Thats 15K in fed taxes

It takes 4 private taxpayers at 15K eacj just to pay that fed employees salary

Probably takes at least 2 more to offset bennies

Thats at least 6!

So ,,, one million (the number the proposes cuts) takes 6 MILLION private sector payers

And all those 6 million JUST goes to those 1 million salaries,, NOT a dime of that gets to the military, the infrastructure, the elderly, the schools,,

You are aware that federal employees pay federal taxes, are you not?

548 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:07:04am

re: #542 RogueOne

WW2. What country do you think is asking for an invasion?

My vote is Canada, they have a ton of oil and look how well the iraqi war for oil went.

549 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:07:14am

re: #523 kirkspencer

heh.

The teachers are being allowed back in because proper process wasn't followed. The principals had given them a bad review and they were dismissed.

Now since I've been exactly in this situation - both as the firer and the fired - I'll say what PROBABLY happened is that there was no review or chance for rebuttal.

See, one of the things the union does is insist that I can't fire someone just because I don't like them. One of the particularly nasty tricks some managers like to do is make a bad review and use that to fire someone, even though the review is, at best, only part of the truth. Example: I got a bad review as a librarian in a prison the same year I won grants for the library, got recognition for my library being one of the first 10% in the state to meet the new standards, improved the process for GED testing, and got recognition for coming in when a blizzard that shut things down was on the way so that security stations could be covered. None of the positives was mentioned. As for the negatives, there was no documentation. My regular reviews, my timesheets, nothing.

Now, I suspect some of these teachers, even most of them, should be fired. But there's a process in place to prevent people who have to balance a budget from firing the highest paid employees; to prevent people of one political persuasion from firing those who stand in the opposite house; from removing those who do not worship their every crap in the toilet. And from what I can read that was ignored.

If they're that bad, it should not be that hard to do it right. If those in charge don't want to do THAT right, what else aren't they doing right?

QFT.

550 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:07:15am

re: #542 RogueOne

WW2. What country do you think is asking for an invasion?

I've always been wary of Uruguay

(and the Falkland Islands could use another ass kicking!!)

551 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:07:51am

re: #542 RogueOne

WW2. What country do you think is asking for an invasion?

If Massive government spending on arms can end an depression why can't massive government spending on infrastructure do it?

552 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:07:54am

re: #547 Talking Point Detective

You are aware that federal employees pay federal taxes, are you not?

see #533

553 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:09:08am

re: #546 jamesfirecat

Yep, a MASSIVE SURGE in government employees since we had to pay the people we drafted.

Also a MASSSIVE SURGE in production of things as the government demanded that companies like Ford start turning out tanks and bombers.

So the worst financial crisis in American history came to an end when the government started creating jobs at an amazing rate... I think there could be a lesson here but I'm not quite sure what it is...

Let's declare War on Global Warming

554 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:09:51am

re: #536 sattv4u2

One of the problem with your argument is it's too binary.

Without looking at how many private sector jobs are a direct and indirectly a connected to or result of public sector jobs then you're not going to get a realistic picture.

Private and public jobs are interconnected in many cases.

555 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:10:35am

re: #527 Killgore Trout

They? How will we survive? It's not only the loss of a million jobs but that means job seekers will be competing with a million new applicants. I used to consider myself a fiscal conservative but it's reckless and stupid bullshit like this that drove me away. Anti-government bullshit is not a roadmap for financial recovery.

There are no fiscal conservatives in a depression/recession the same way there are no atheists in foxholes....

556 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:10:50am

re: #533 sattv4u2

That they do. So they kick in 1/6th of their own salary and bennies, which leaves 5/6th funded by private sector taxpayers!

there,, feel better now??

Ok, so that's one inaccuracy in your "calculation"

You also don't attempt to account for any of the benefits private sector employees enjoy as the result of federal employment. Care to try to monetize those benefits and fit it into your equation?

557 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:11:15am

re: #546 jamesfirecat

Yep, a MASSIVE SURGE in government employees since we had to pay the people we drafted.

Also a MASSSIVE SURGE in production of things as the government demanded that companies like Ford start turning out tanks and bombers.

So the worst financial crisis in American history came to an end when the government started creating jobs at an amazing rate... I think there could be a lesson here but I'm not quite sure what it is...

Be careful, james, Mr. Keynes is just an ebil commie-terrorist not a real economist.

558 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:12:04am

re: #545 kirkspencer

The primary reason for Rhee's failure is the same problem that besets all education reformers: part of the compensation package for teaching is job security, which is what allows the state to pay teachers less than they would probably be able to earn in other jobs.

So you can't just attack job security when you don't replace it with something equally valuable (say a pay hike). People in the private sector say "but my job has no security", but the point is that they knew that going in, and made their decision based on that knowledge.

The secondary reason is that she has always come across as a somewhat abrasive personality*. I don't get the impression that she made any friends on the ground.

* Edited for family-friendliness.

559 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:12:26am

re: #554 Jadespring

One of the problem with your argument is it's too binary.

Without looking at how many private sector jobs are a direct and indirectly a connected to or result of public sector jobs then you're not going to get a realistic picture.

Private and public jobs are interconnected in many cases.

There's more than a few companies on the Forbes 500 that obtain large or even in some cases a majority of their revenue from Government contracts.

560 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:14:09am

re: #559 McSpiff

There's more than a few companies on the Forbes 500 that obtain large or even in some cases a majority of their revenue from Government contracts.

Private, for-profit higher education is only made possible by the Pell Grant. That whole industry is rotten.

561 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:14:33am

re: #556 Talking Point Detective

Ok, so that's one inaccuracy in your "calculation"

You also don't attempt to account for any of the benefits private sector employees enjoy as the result of federal employment. Care to try to monetize those benefits and fit it into your equation?

Not really, seeing that my "equation" was to account for how many private sector employees it takes to pay (salary and bennies) each fed employee at the same salary scale

562 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:14:37am

re: #559 McSpiff

There's more than a few companies on the Forbes 500 that obtain large or even in some cases a majority of their revenue from Government contracts.

Yep.

The entire military industrial complex comes to mind.

Also how many private sector jobs are connected to say military people on bases. Suppliers, food, food services, entertainment and anything else they might spend money on in the surrounding area.

563 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:14:40am

If we start the conversation with the assumption that we can't afford the government we have, then obviously you have to make it smaller.

I'm not sure that the case has been made, since, as noted above, using typical comparative measures between our government and others we don't seem to be out of whack. You sure as hell cannot infer causation between the current size of the government and the current state of the economy. The only way to do that is to rewrite history in a pretty blatant and stupid way.

I would also think that calculating the collateral costs of cutting government jobs is a reasonable thing to do: what services are we going to lose, what does the job loss do to aggregate demand (and what economic outcomes that generates), what are the severance costs (so you can get a net savings number), etc... But I sense an unwillingness from the GOP to do that. I am not sure why that is. Is it because they view government workers as some sort of subhumans unworthy of any consideration? Or because they value any government activity so low that it's cancellation is simply presumed to be a good thing? Or that they have made the promise, so thinking hard about the consequences of delivering on that promise is pointless? I don't know.

564 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:14:53am

re: #558 iossarian

The primary reason for Rhee's failure is the same problem that besets all education reformers: part of the compensation package for teaching is job security, which is what allows the state to pay teachers less than they would probably be able to earn in other jobs.

So you can't just attack job security when you don't replace it with something equally valuable (say a pay hike). People in the private sector say "but my job has no security", but the point is that they knew that going in, and made their decision based on that knowledge.

The secondary reason is that she has always come across as a somewhat abrasive personality*. I don't get the impression that she made any friends on the ground.

* Edited for family-friendliness.

If you ask me we need to start paying Teachers as well as doctors or lawyers, what job could be more important than insuring the next generation of Americans is even greater than the one before it?

565 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:16:12am

Laterz

566 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:16:41am

re: #560 iossarian

Private, for-profit higher education is only made possible by the Pell Grant. That whole industry is rotten.

Boeing, Lockheed Martin, the rest of the defense industry, various telecoms, etc. The idea that the US Federal government is a drain on the economy is quite frankly idiotic. It IS the US economy. Remove it as an actor in any real way and it will make the Great Depression look like the Clinton years.

567 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:16:46am

re: #562 Jadespring

Yep.

The entire military industrial complex comes to mind.

Also how many private sector jobs are connected to say military people on bases. Suppliers, food, food services, entertainment and anything else they might spend money on in the surrounding area.

The freaking contractors.

568 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:18:02am

re: #561 sattv4u2

Not really, seeing that my "equation" was to account for how many private sector employees it takes to pay (salary and bennies) each fed employee at the same salary scale

But the point is that your equation is too simplistic to be meaningful in any significant way. If you want to examine the costs of federal salaries, you also have to examine the correlated benefits. Otherwise, you're just living in some binary libertarian Utopian, where because there a costs to having a government, it means that some imaginary world exists where you could have the benefits without those costs.

569 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:20:05am

re: #545 kirkspencer

No need to apologize. My "screwing/beating kids" was snarky.

570 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:20:17am

I thought of another connection. How many private sector jobs in say farming and the oil industry are a result of gov't subsidies?

Or any private industry that is subsidized in some way.


This isn't a comment on whether it's good or bad, only that the issue is not a binary one. Public or private. They share the same beds or at least the same bedrooms.

571 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:20:51am

re: #562 Jadespring

Yep.

The entire military industrial complex comes to mind.

Also how many private sector jobs are connected to say military people on bases. Suppliers, food, food services, entertainment and anything else they might spend money on in the surrounding area.

I would guess that as far as industries go, overall, military spending is not particularly good at returning jobs. It would be interesting to see some kind of breakdown that way.

572 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:20:54am

re: #529 RogueOne

The one thing they were doing right, before she lost her job, was teaching kids:

I was under the assumption that teaching kids and improving scores was the bigger part of their jobs.

Since the pronouns are jumbled let's be more specific. Rhee fired these people without following rules meant to protect people from both petty and malicious supervisors. If she isn't following those rules, what other rules is she not following?

For the record they are not hard rules to follow. You give the person a period in which to respond -- to provide counter-documentation that shows the review is false or incomplete. That's it.

The fact her fourth and eighth grade students did better on math tests is a point in her favor. On the other hand DC graduation rates for 2009 were down, which is a point against her. Neither answers the question of what other rules is she also ignoring.

573 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:21:41am

re: #545 kirkspencer

re: #569 RogueOne

What the hell kind of flame war is that?!?!
//

That's one of the things I love about this place, is folks with different view points getting along despite disagreement.

574 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:23:44am

With that I'm gone. My spouse only has a few days left from her temporary "unemployment" (she was given 2 months severance and rehired within the 1st month) and we've been taking advantage of her time off. Cya people!

575 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:23:53am

Borders is declaring bankruptcy.

Could not compete with Amazon.

576 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:26:02am

re: #571 Talking Point Detective

I would guess that as far as industries go, overall, military spending is not particularly good at returning jobs. It would be interesting to see some kind of breakdown that way.

I've seen thing like that. They exist but are all over the place in terms of numbers. The question is just how far out you go with the tendrils of connections. All the way out to the farmers that grow the food for the MRES or mess halls? How about farther...to the suppliers and manufacturers that sell to the farmers? How about farther then that- to the suppliers that supply the suppliers of the farmers.

577 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:26:06am

The Dutch "Noah's Ark"

578 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:27:22am

re: #547 Talking Point Detective

You are aware that federal employees pay federal taxes, are you not?

Pfft. Everyone knows that gubmint drones only leech from the system. They don't pay into it. What are you, some kinda commie?

/wingnut

579 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:27:38am

re: #563 garhighway

If we start the conversation with the assumption that we can't afford the government we have, then obviously you have to make it smaller.

I'm not sure that the case has been made, since, as noted above, using typical comparative measures between our government and others we don't seem to be out of whack. You sure as hell cannot infer causation between the current size of the government and the current state of the economy. The only way to do that is to rewrite history in a pretty blatant and stupid way.

I would also think that calculating the collateral costs of cutting government jobs is a reasonable thing to do: what services are we going to lose, what does the job loss do to aggregate demand (and what economic outcomes that generates), what are the severance costs (so you can get a net savings number), etc... But I sense an unwillingness from the GOP to do that. I am not sure why that is. Is it because they view government workers as some sort of subhumans unworthy of any consideration? Or because they value any government activity so low that it's cancellation is simply presumed to be a good thing? Or that they have made the promise, so thinking hard about the consequences of delivering on that promise is pointless? I don't know.

To the extent that Republicans refuse to make a good-faith effort at a full accounting for costs and benefits of federal employment, I think there is no logical reason for it, really. The reality is that bashing government (and by extension taxes) is politically expedient.

It's like when they bash federal funding for public transportation, but praise automobile travel while making absolutely no attempt to account for the externalities such as sprawl, congestion, pollution, traffic deaths, loss of productivity, the cost of highway safety, etc.

580 Lidane  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:29:04am

re: #575 Alouette

Borders is declaring bankruptcy.

Could not compete with Amazon.

Not surprising. Blockbuster couldn't compete with Netflix and went under.

OTOH, I hope this means they'll have a sale. I could use some new books, and the boyfriend is a big Dresden Files fan, so buying the rest of that series for cheap would be awesome.

581 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:29:42am

re: #576 Jadespring

I've seen thing like that. They exist but are all over the place in terms of numbers. The question is just how far out you go with the tendrils of connections. All the way out to the farmers that grow the food for the MRES or mess halls? How about farther...to the suppliers and manufacturers that sell to the farmers? How about farther then that- to the suppliers that supply the suppliers of the farmers.

Yeah - It would be very complicated to do thoroughly. Of course, part of my thinking is that spending on weapons systems - a huge % of the military budget - is not particularly labor intensive; relatively few, high-skilled employees. But then again, since those employees get paid well, they are likely to pump more money back into the economy. But you're absolutely right, there are a lot of tendrils.

582 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:29:43am

re: #500 wozzablog

Private money as in consumer money.

Consumers spur growth through their spending - companies can not impose demand on consumers if the consumer has nothing to spend. It's a fairly basic economic concept.

Consumers have no extra cash - after paying - ironically enough - for their healthcare bills - etc.

And if consumers are uncertin about whqat their health care is going to cost them, they are less inclined to spend. If they have certainty in the form of reliable and affordable insurance, then they are more willing to spend.

The "uncertainty" argument can work both ways.

583 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:31:51am

re: #534 RogueOne

It's an incredible stretch to believe that a federal government that increased discretionary spending by over 200% in the last decade cannot afford a 2.7% budget decrease. If we've arrived at the point where we're counting on federal jobs to keep our heads above water then we're already screwed.

I realize you said you logged off, but in case you're not - what 200% increase?

584 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:33:43am

re: #583 kirkspencer

I realize you said you logged off, but in case you're not - what 200% increase?

I'd be willing to bet it had something to do with the two land wars in Asia we got ourselves involved in....

585 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:35:25am

re: #584 jamesfirecat

I'd be willing to bet it had something to do with the two land wars in Asia we got ourselves involved in...

I doubt it. Those tend not to get counted when conservatives are railing against government spending.

586 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:37:03am

re: #584 jamesfirecat

I'd be willing to bet it had something to do with the two land wars in Asia we got ourselves involved in...

Medicare Part C might have something to do with it.

A big, new, badly-designed entitlement program.

587 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:37:06am

re: #563 garhighway

If we start the conversation with the assumption that we can't afford the government we have, then obviously you have to make it smaller.

I'm not sure that the case has been made, since, as noted above, using typical comparative measures between our government and others we don't seem to be out of whack. You sure as hell cannot infer causation between the current size of the government and the current state of the economy. The only way to do that is to rewrite history in a pretty blatant and stupid way.

I would also think that calculating the collateral costs of cutting government jobs is a reasonable thing to do: what services are we going to lose, what does the job loss do to aggregate demand (and what economic outcomes that generates), what are the severance costs (so you can get a net savings number), etc... But I sense an unwillingness from the GOP to do that. I am not sure why that is. Is it because they view government workers as some sort of subhumans unworthy of any consideration? Or because they value any government activity so low that it's cancellation is simply presumed to be a good thing? Or that they have made the promise, so thinking hard about the consequences of delivering on that promise is pointless? I don't know.

You're overthinking the situation from a political viewpoint. If *saying* it will sell in Peoria in terms of getting votes and contributions they will say it. Delivering on it after getting elected is a totally different calculation.

588 iossarian  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:38:56am

re: #587 oaktree

You're overthinking the situation from a political viewpoint. If *saying* it will sell in Peoria in terms of getting votes and contributions they will say it. Delivering on it after getting elected is a totally different calculation.

This is exactly it. The GOP realizes that government cuts are unpopular - this is why they rarely actually carry through on them. They just cut taxes and increase the deficit instead.

589 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:40:35am

re: #575 Alouette

Borders is declaring bankruptcy.

Could not compete with Amazon.

They lost my business years ago due to having a relatively poor selection in the books I generally buy, having them poorly organized, and having staff that came across to me as apathetic.

I don't use Amazon much for books, and don't go into places like B&N that often. Hit a couple of small private places or used book stores for bound reading material at this stage.

590 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:41:22am

re: #583 kirkspencer

I realize you said you logged off, but in case you're not - what 200% increase?

I'm sure that it considers the TARP stimulus money as a factor. Of course, that was a one time event, analogous to other emergency spending which would not be typically included in accounting for discretionary spending. Also, some % of the TARP money has been paid back - which I'm sure is not included in the calculations.

591 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:41:22am

re: #587 oaktree

You're overthinking the situation from a political viewpoint. If *saying* it will sell in Peoria in terms of getting votes and contributions they will say it. Delivering on it after getting elected is a totally different calculation.

Yes and no. There seems to be a sense in the current House that the Tea Partiers are going to hold Boehner to the budget cutting promises whether he likes it or not.

He has a tiger by the tail there. If he alienates them, he no longer has a working majority. No doubt he looks at them and asks himself "Where else are they going to go? To Pelosi?" On the other hand, he knows that they are kind of crazy, so he can't rule anything out. He's got a problem, and it is going to lead to him taking some votes he'd rather not take.

592 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:41:51am

re: #586 garhighway

I think you mean Part D, which was enacted under Bush.

593 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:42:35am

re: #589 oaktree

They lost my business years ago due to having a relatively poor selection in the books I generally buy, having them poorly organized, and having staff that came across to me as apathetic.

I don't use Amazon much for books, and don't go into places like B&N that often. Hit a couple of small private places or used book stores for bound reading material at this stage.

Plus they are starting to be hit by eBooks. This is Tower Records all over again: their product is now just electrons that you can buy from a park bench.

594 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:42:52am
595 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:42:57am

re: #589 oaktree

They lost my business years ago due to having a relatively poor selection in the books I generally buy, having them poorly organized, and having staff that came across to me as apathetic.

I don't use Amazon much for books, and don't go into places like B&N that often. Hit a couple of small private places or used book stores for bound reading material at this stage.

I get most of my reading material from the library. Books that I want to own (such as cookbooks) I get from the Edward Hamilton catalog.

596 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:42:58am

re: #592 lawhawk

I think you mean Part D, which was enacted under Bush.

Agree. Sorry.

That is a big chunk of money.

597 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:43:57am

re: #590 Talking Point Detective

Sorry - that should have been TARP and stimulus money - both of which were considered one-time, emergency spending; and so it is misleading to consider that spending to be considered as a structural increase in discretionary spending.

598 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:45:51am

Insensitive a-hole of the day goes to Nir Rosen, who twitted about Lara Logan trying to outdo Anderson Cooper.

"Yes yes it's wrong what happened to her. Of course. I don't support that. But it would have been funny if it happened to Anderson too."

And it gets worse than that - leading him Rosen resign from his fellowship from New York University's Center on Law and Security on Wednesday after his apologies fell on deaf ears because he was such an insensitive twit.

599 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:49:23am

re: #598 lawhawk

Insensitive a-hole of the day goes to Nir Rosen, who twitted about Lara Logan trying to outdo Anderson Cooper.

And it gets worse than that - leading him Rosen resign from his fellowship from New York University's Center on Law and Security on Wednesday after his apologies fell on deaf ears because he was such an insensitive twit.

ugh.

600 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:50:00am

re: #584 jamesfirecat

I'd be willing to bet it had something to do with the two land wars in Asia we got ourselves involved in...

Thing is, discretionary spending did not increase by 200% from 2000 to 2010. It almost doubled. Now for the real fun?

Up to 2009 the federal budget was only around 20% of the GDP, close to wht it was in 2000. When Obama moved some off-books stuff to on-books AND the recession shrank the GDP, the proportion went to ~24%. So even though the raw number doubled, so did the GDP of which it was part.

If we move that stuff off-books, we can reduce to about 22%. If the GDP will ever grow like it did before the recession, we'll also see a decline in proportion. As a consequence I am a wee bit suspicious of the whole "have to cut" argument.

601 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:50:03am

9-11 Truthers at CPAC....
WAC confronts David Horowitz on 911

602 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:50:36am

re: #581 Talking Point Detective

Yeah - It would be very complicated to do thoroughly. Of course, part of my thinking is that spending on weapons systems - a huge % of the military budget - is not particularly labor intensive; relatively few, high-skilled employees. But then again, since those employees get paid well, they are likely to pump more money back into the economy. But you're absolutely right, there are a lot of tendrils.

Yes those big things are a lot easier to figure out. What's more difficult is the day to day stuff in terms of 'job' connections. To get a wholistic accounting of 'jobs' connection a whole lot more needs to be taken into account. A person paid a salary by the gov't uses that salary to live on. They spend that money in places. Those places get the business. Jobs in those places depend on the business and the economy goes round and round. There's a reason people scream bloody murder if there is any talk of a base closing in an area. It's not just about the public jobs but all the private entities that support the people with those jobs.

To give a small example. My Dad was a civil servant and over the years their operations were cut. At one time the whole entire office building was moved to another location. Several of the cafes and businesses that were in the first building and in the surrounding area ended up going out of business because of their removal from that localized economy was too much. Now in this case you could say that this was offset by business uptake and likely job creation in the new area which is fine. If they had been cut altogether though then that's a net job loss.

603 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:53:11am

The story just keeps getting uglier......
CBS reporter's Cairo nightmare

"60 Minutes" correspondent Lara Logan was repeatedly sexually assaulted by thugs yelling, "Jew! Jew!" as she covered the chaotic fall of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Cairo's main square Friday, CBS and sources said yesterday.

The TV crew with Logan, who is also the network's chief foreign correspondent, had its cameras rolling moments before she was dragged off -- and caught her on tape looking tense and trying to head away from a crowd of men behind her in Tahrir Square.

604 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:54:02am

gaycivilrights Gay Civil Rights
Breaking: Prop 8 Ruling Today From California Supreme Court [Link: nblo.gs...]

605 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:54:26am

re: #603 Killgore Trout

Damn, the attack lasted 20-30 minutes,

606 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:54:40am

OT: I am not a big Maureen Dowd fan, but today's column is pretty interesting.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

It's about a series pf plays being put on in the UK about the history of Afghanistan and the conflicts there. Two key quotes:

“The question is,” says an American staff officer in the play, “are we on our ninth year in Afghanistan, or are we on our first year for the ninth time?”

and

“Every conflict in the world today has its origin in the imagination of British map drawers,” a character dryly notes.

607 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:56:07am

re: #595 Alouette

I get most of my reading material from the library. Books that I want to own (such as cookbooks) I get from the Edward Hamilton catalog.

My library use has dropped off drastically. The Philadelphia Free Library system has taken some massive budget cuts the last few years (despite needing infrastructure work and some basic ignorance of what kind of bang for the buck libraries give your city) to the point that their hours and my schedule simply do not cooperate.

Pretty sad considering this city is considered one of the places where the concept of the public library got its start.

608 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:56:49am

re: #598 lawhawk

Insensitive a-hole of the day goes to Nir Rosen, who twitted about Lara Logan trying to outdo Anderson Cooper.

And it gets worse than that - leading him Rosen resign from his fellowship from New York University's Center on Law and Security on Wednesday after his apologies fell on deaf ears because he was such an insensitive twit.

"From there, his posts only got worse.

The tweet, "Jesus Christ, at a moment when she is going to become a martyr and glorified we should at least remember her role as a major war monger," was followed by, "Look, she was probably groped like thousands of other women.""

What a fucktard.
He should be shunned by every news organization.

609 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:56:52am

re: #604 Stanley Sea

gaycivilrights Gay Civil Rights
Breaking: Prop 8 Ruling Today From California Supreme Court [Link: nblo.gs...]

So after that does it go to the nations supreme court in Washington or are there more steps in between?

610 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:57:28am

re: #598 lawhawk

And check out this festering pile of wingnut bile (cached link):

OMG if I were her captors and there were no sanctions for doing so? I would totally rape her.

Of course, he's furiously trying to scrub this comment from his blog, but it still appears on the cached page I linked if you scroll to the bottom. And even now, he tries to defend it in a thoroughly slimy way:

UPDATE: A super funny joke was deleted in light of the sad news that Lara Logan actually was raped in Egypt. Did I sooo totally call this? Yes.

Hurr hurr! Gang rape is hilarious!

/spit

611 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 8:58:46am

re: #608 Ericus58

"From there, his posts only got worse.

The tweet, "Jesus Christ, at a moment when she is going to become a martyr and glorified we should at least remember her role as a major war monger," was followed by, "Look, she was probably groped like thousands of other women.""

What a fucktard.
He should be shunned by every news organization.

Another "commentator" weighs in. This is worse, much worse.

(I will probably get another valentine from this sweetheart. Bring it, babe.)

612 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:01:17am

re: #610 publicityStunted

And check out this festering pile of wingnut bile (cached link):

Of course, he's furiously trying to scrub this comment from his blog, but it still appears on the cached page I linked if you scroll to the bottom. And even now, he tries to defend it in a thoroughly slimy way:

Hurr hurr! Gang rape is hilarious!

/spit

The assault on Lara Logan & the reality of rape. Blog post by Emily Hauser. Opening lines:

I’ve never been raped.

Why? Because I’m lucky.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

I’ve been groped on more than one occasion. I’ve been followed by men in a car late at night. I’ve been harassed on the street, and more than once not been certain it was going to end at “harassment.” A friend and I once found ourselves in a shared taxi with two men who tried to convince the driver (in a language they shared and we barely understood) to take us somewhere they could attack us (the driver physically pulled them from his car). I once discovered that my gynecologist was no longer in business – because he had raped several patients.

I am a woman, and I live in the world. This is what living in the world looks like, if you happen to be a woman. If none of that becomes rape? You’re lucky. Nothing more. Nothing less.


(more at link. I have no more to add.)

613 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:01:35am

re: #609 jamesfirecat

So after that does it go to the nations supreme court in Washington or are there more steps in between?

It depends. There are potential outcomes where, because of technical issues, this goes no farther and is a California-only case. The 9th Circuit spent a lot of time talking about standing, trying to figure out if the appellants are the right people to be bringing the case. (Or if anyone is, given that the State of California is not trying to support the measure.)

I hope they clear that hurdle, as I would like to see the case go up, but we'll see.

614 Jadespring  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:01:48am

re: #610 publicityStunted

And check out this festering pile of wingnut bile (cached link):

Of course, he's furiously trying to scrub this comment from his blog, but it still appears on the cached page I linked if you scroll to the bottom. And even now, he tries to defend it in a thoroughly slimy way:

Hurr hurr! Gang rape is hilarious!

/spit

And people wonder why I don't get more or less upset at something like what happened to Ms. Logan (which is beyond horrible) then with the crap that happens and is spewed in our own locale.

At times it sucks to be female wherever one might happen to live. It's patriarchy at play. It's a global thing that manifests itself regardless of ideology, politics, religion or what have you.

615 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:04:15am

re: #611 Alouette

Another "commentator" weighs in. This is worse, much worse.

(I will probably get another valentine from this sweetheart. Bring it, babe.)

You have got to be shitting me....
Debbie Schlussel - you are no better than that slimeball Nir Rosen for writting your remarks.

"Alhamdillullah [Praise allah], Islam Fan Lara Logan Gets a Taste of Islam."

What the Hell is that?
And you being a woman who is seeming to take smug satisfaction in Lara Logan's pain and suffering?

Fuck You.

616 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:11:13am

You know - I really try not to hit the boiling mad stage like I was riding on a rocket sled.....

But these two assholes really mashed my button with their remarks and attitudes.

I'll step away and busy myself for a bit...

617 BishopX  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:15:09am

re: #609 jamesfirecat

So after that does it go to the nations supreme court in Washington or are there more steps in between?

If the state high court decides that the people defending prop eight don't have standing (i.e they aren't effected by the ruling one way or another) then it's over. If the state court decides they do have standing, I would imagine that the ninth circuit will hear arguments on the case, which will then be appealed to the supreme court.

618 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:15:41am

re: #611 Alouette

Another "commentator" weighs in. This is worse, much worse.

(I will probably get another valentine from this sweetheart. Bring it, babe.)

From that (cached) sewer:

This never happened to her or any other mainstream media reporter when Mubarak was allowed to treat his country of savages in the only way they can be controlled.

I knew she was foul, but sheesh...

619 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:15:48am

They're cutting down my nuisance holly tree today. I'm glad to see it go but the poor squirrels are heartboken watching their home being cut down.

620 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:16:27am

re: #615 Ericus58

You have got to be shitting me...
Debbie Schlussel - you are no better than that slimeball Nir Rosen for writting your remarks.

"Alhamdillullah [Praise allah], Islam Fan Lara Logan Gets a Taste of Islam."

What the Hell is that?
And you being a woman who is seeming to take smug satisfaction in Lara Logan's pain and suffering?

Fuck You.

Islam, huh? Three words: Jamie Leigh Jones.

621 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:17:02am

re: #619 Killgore Trout

They're cutting down my nuisance holly tree today. I'm glad to see it go but the poor squirrels are heartboken watching their home being cut down.

Don't worry, they're already eyeing your attic as the new digs...

622 BishopX  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:19:07am

re: #619 Killgore Trout

623 BishopX  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:20:38am

re: #622 BishopX

erm, that didn't work as planned:

624 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:22:26am

Well that sucked. My wife said she needed me and I assumed she wanted some before her sister gets home from school...turns out all she wanted was for me to clean up the dog shit in the back yard before everything thaws.

625 Ericus58  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:26:39am

re: #624 RogueOne

Well that sucked. My wife said she needed me and I assumed she wanted some before her sister gets home from school...turns out all she wanted was for me to clean up the dog shit in the back yard before everything thaws.

Haha - Denied!
It's good that we are reminded our place in the pecking order ;)

626 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:32:06am

re: #583 kirkspencer

I realize you said you logged off, but in case you're not - what 200% increase?

Discretionary spending (including military) went from roughly ~550 billion in '99 to it's current level of ~1.5 trillion.

(1999 Budget PDF)

627 garhighway  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:37:06am

re: #626 RogueOne

Discretionary spending (including military) went from roughly ~550 billion in '99 to it's current level of ~1.5 trillion.

(1999 Budget PDF)

How much of that increase is military?

628 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:47:43am

re: #627 garhighway

How much of that increase is military?

~500 Billion.

629 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:49:49am

re: #355 ralphieboy

Some have presented the argument that our invasion of Iraq somehow played a role in these uprisings.

One one hand, I cannot imagine people in Tunisia, Libya, Bahrain or Egypt saying "Would't it be great if we could be more like Iraq?"

And in fact, what might be happening on the streets of Baghdad right now? Might the people there be toppling Saddam on their own without us having had to spend biollions of dollars and thousands of lives?

Whole different kettle of fish. Saddam would have had no qualms about opening fire on the crowd, and the army would have followed his lead.

630 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:51:03am

Now I'm seriously gone, enjoy the rest of your day people.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:53:19am

re: #384 njdhockeyfan

I'm old school I guess. The CF bulbs just don't have the warmth look in a room like standard bulbs do. The issue with mercury in CF bulbs concerns me as well.

There are some CF bulbs that look weird, and some that look like incandescent bulb light. Someone explained the difference to me, but I've forgotten it.

632 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 9:57:45am

re: #424 RogueOne

Speaking of Joe:

‘Sheriff Joe’ Arpaio Leads in Arizona Poll for Senate Race
[Link: www.rollcall.com...]

Oh, SUPER.

633 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 10:30:03am

re: #495 RogueOne

about that...
Payscale
[Link: www.payscale.com...]

CA teachers pension:
[Link: database.californiapensionreform.com...]

IL teachers pension:
[Link: www.theneweditor.com...]

Wow. After twenty years of service, you could be making less than sixty thousand dollars a year, and if you're a highly placed administrator, you could get a fabulous pension.

Why am I trying to get out of this profession again?

634 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 16, 2011 1:26:31pm

re: #495 RogueOne

about that...
Payscale
[Link: www.payscale.com...]

CA teachers pension:
[Link: database.californiapensionreform.com...]

IL teachers pension:
[Link: www.theneweditor.com...]

Wow, we just treat teachers like shit in this country


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2021-06-05 12:51 pm PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
One to Watch: Emerging Artist Jachym Borax Showcases His Star Quality on New Album Jachym Borax is an eccentric yet highly detail-oriented rapper/producer, who burst on the scene earlier this year with his debut album, DRUG INDUCED PYSCHOSIS. The rising Los Angeles-based artist presents a nuanced take on trap music by creating genre-bending ...
Pips
41 minutes ago
Views: 22 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Photographer Showcases the Entrancing Beauty of ‘Sacred’ Sites This guy has amazing skills to go with his travels and gear. For years photographer Chris Rainier has been captivated with the process of exploring the meaning of ‘sacredness’ in a world filled with numerous religions, identities, and increasing ...
Rightwingconspirator
Yesterday
Views: 50 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
One to Watch: Rising Artist Tay Toe Continues to Impress With New Single “Life of Blues” Creatively uniting a limitless passion for music with a powerfully authentic writing style, rapper and artist Tay Toe brings integrity and heart to contemporary hip-hop. Already noting hundreds of thousands of streams across a handful of releases since arriving ...
Pips
Yesterday
Views: 68 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Indigenous Americans Ruled Democratically Long Before the U.S. DidDemocracy: it was older and more widespread than we thought. At the Oconee site, called Cold Springs, artifacts were excavated before the valley became an aquatic playground. Now, new older-than-expected radiocarbon dates for those museum-held finds push back the origin ...
Thanos
4 weeks ago
Views: 1,723 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 3 •
One to Watch: Rising Star AMIRAH Impresses With Latest Release “Silently” AMIRAH is an independent artist with a talent for writing infectious tunes and relatable narratives. Inspired by internationally acclaimed artists such as Rihanna, Alicia Keys and Halsey, AMIRAH’s musical journey began at a very tender age. Being the avid ...
Pips
3 weeks ago
Views: 1,102 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •