The Tom Tancredo-Robert Spencer-Pamela Geller Convergence

Daily Caller endorses the Bigot Brigade
Wingnuts • Views: 27,443

Sometimes there’s nothing you can say but, “Wow.”

Here’s Tom Tancredo with an incredibly over-the-top anti-Muslim fear-mongering piece, attacking Rick Perry in Tucker Carlson’s The Daily Caller: Governor Perry’s Muslim blind spot.

Complete with quotes and links to hate group leaders Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller.

Islam scholar Robert Spencer, head of Jihad Watch, examined the program and concluded, “The curriculum is a complete whitewash and it’s got the endorsement of Perry. It’s not going to give you any idea why people are waging jihad against the West — it’s only going to make you think that the real problem is ‘Islamophobia.’”

Perhaps Spencer exaggerates the curriculum’s bias? Examine it for yourself here.

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450 comments
1 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:58:59pm

Ah, Tom Tancredo. The single-issue candidate for those who hate brown people more than they love fetuses.

2 Lidane  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:59:23pm
Islam scholar Robert Spencer

This is an oxymoron. And anyone who believes that Spencer's a scholar is just a moron.

3 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:01:27pm

re: #1 Atlas Fails

Ah, Tom Tancredo. The single-issue candidate for those who hate brown people more than they love fetuses.

Disclaimer: my opinions on abortion are complex and constantly evolving, so I don't want to rag on pro-lifers. A lot of right to life groups are fucking weird though.

4 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:02:15pm

And there goes Tom Tancredo making Rick Perry look somewhat reasonable. Tancredo is a bigot, pure and simple.

5 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:02:31pm
Islam scholar Robert Spencer

* scannersguyheadexplode.gif*

6 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:02:41pm

re: #2 Lidane

This is an oxymoron. And anyone who believes that Spencer's a scholar is just a moron.

MORAN!

7 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:03:29pm

Islamic teaching in Texas schools? These guys are so fez-phobic I fear for the Shriners.

8 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:04:53pm

re: #6 wozzablog

MORAN!

Image: morans.jpg

9 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:05:00pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

Islamic teaching in Texas schools? These guys are so fez-phobic I fear for the Shriners.

I wear a fez now. Fezs are cool.

10 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:05:12pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

Islamic teaching in Texas schools? These guys are so fez-phobic I fear for the Shriners.

Yeah Arabic teaching in public schools is proof of teh Shariah or at least that's what Dave Horowitz believes. I mean really how stupid can you get.

11 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:05:31pm

re: #8 Atlas Fails

re: #1 Atlas Fails

Image: morans.jpg

GIT A BRIAN, MORANS!

12 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:06:16pm
The Agreement of Cooperation, which is an outcome of Mawlana Hazar Imam’s Golden Jubilee visit to the United States in 2008, marks a historic milestone. It establishes a basis for long term collaborative programmes between the State and the institutions of the Imamat in the fields of education, health sciences, natural disaster preparedness and recovery, culture and the environment.*
[Link: www.theismaili.org...]

*You know, all that stuff that Spencer n' Geller call Jihad.

13 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:06:37pm

re: #11 wozzablog

GIT A BRIAN, MORANS!

You forgot! the exclamation! point

14 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:06:48pm
Perry’s close ties to Muslim groups led the political blog Salon to headline a recent story: “Rick Perry: The pro-Sharia candidate?” Evidence in support of that theme comes from Gov. Perry’s refusal to support legislation sponsored by Texas Republican legislators to outlaw Sharia law in Texas.

BBQ Ackbar!

15 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:06:54pm

another pissing contest

16 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:06:59pm

re: #9 wozzablog

I wear a fez now. Fezs are cool.

[Video]

Most Excellent.

17 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:08:08pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

Islamic teaching in Texas schools? These guys are so fez-phobic I fear for the Shriners.

maybe we should be teaching our college students how to read before we get into Islamic studies

18 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:08:25pm

re: #15 albusteve

another pissing contest

It's called trickle-down economics, thank you very much!

19 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:09:49pm

re: #17 albusteve

maybe we should be teaching our college students how to read before we get into Islamic studies

I'd prefer kids learn to read George Orwell before they learned to the bible, we don't get what we want in this world. Never will

20 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:10:05pm

The fifth column is everywhere...

At a Council on Foreign Relations event last week, the interfaith activist Eboo Patel recalled that, when Gingrich was approached about the issue by a Muslim staffer friend of Patel's, the speaker promised, "I'm going to make sure you have a place to pray for 50, and our staff will move the tables and the chairs for you. And as long as I'm speaker, you can count on that." Joked Patel: "So Mr. Gingrich has the distinction of helping to facilitate Shariah."
[Link: www.salon.com...]

21 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:12:05pm

G'night all.

Up and out in 5.25hrs. Joy.

22 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:12:47pm

re: #21 wozzablog

Nite, wozza. Sleep well.

23 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:13:09pm

witnessing the rise of Oath Clubs now.....egads
"I promise to support something that doesn't exist"
how mickey fucking mouse

24 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:14:04pm

I have been kind of watching this story. As usual, the link to Pam's site is a fucking giant wall of text. It's impossible to find any relevant material. Some of the stuff has been pretty mundane, some of the other stuff has been more questionable. As usual the idiot counter jihadists trip over their own cocks and destroy what should be a serious conversation.

25 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:14:07pm

re: #19 wozzablog

I'd prefer kids learn to read George Orwell before they learned to the bible, we don't get what we want in this world. Never will

I prefer my kids never even open a Bible, but that's their gig

26 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:14:20pm

re: #3 Atlas Fails

Disclaimer: my opinions on abortion are complex and constantly evolving, so I don't want to rag on pro-lifers. A lot of right to life groups are fucking weird though.

My opinion is complex...I believe every mother controls her own life and that life in her womb.. Her and her doctor have the rights to everything in creation..
She is creation..No one else...
I was adopted and lived in foster homes till 12 years old..
I know rejection...Trust me..
I know redemption
My story is one that is about the power of love..And when you think about it..Luck...I got adopted by the greatest folks in the world...

27 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:14:36pm

re: #17 albusteve

maybe we should be teaching our college students how to read before we get into Islamic studies

Got a feeling the ones who go cross-language are going to be the early readers. The rest can become Aggies.

28 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:15:22pm

re: #20 jaunte

The fifth column is everywhere...

Obviously Newt is an agent of the Muslim Brotherhood *sarc*. I think it's truly sad really how outright hostile to Muslim Americans the Republican Party has gotten. I can remember that when Bush first ran for president that he reached out to them. Now it seems being a Muslim American is grounds for suspicion by many Republican candidates and conservative pundits and that's just sad.

29 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:16:44pm

re: #22 CuriousLurker

Y tu.

30 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:17:25pm

re: #20 jaunte

The fifth column is everywhere...

I think they call that "Fifth Pillar" now.

31 Spocomptonite  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:18:15pm

I couldn't even get past "Islam Scholar Robert Spencer". I'm laughing too hard.

32 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:18:47pm

I'm going to open my Atheist American Mischief Center in SoHo...fuck em

33 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:19:39pm

re: #19 wozzablog

I'd prefer kids learn to read George Orwell before they learned to the bible, we don't get what we want in this world. Never will

Well, I'd prefer they read Douglas Adams first. En garde!

34 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:19:50pm

My sister just posted on FB that her 7 year old Tasmanian Devil, I mean son, will now get dressed for church because then he looks like Doctor Who. I asked her if her son now wears a fez.

Hehe

35 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:19:53pm

re: #32 albusteve

I'm going to open my Atheist American Mischief Center in SoHo...fuck em

Creeping Sha-na-na-na.

36 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:21:28pm

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Creeping Sha-na-na-na.

Hey-hey, goodbye?

:x

37 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:21:46pm

re: #26 HoosierHoops

My opinion is complex...I believe every mother controls her own life and that life in her womb.. Her and her doctor have the rights to everything in creation..
She is creation..No one else...
I was adopted and lived in foster homes till 12 years old..
I know rejection...Trust me..
I know redemption
My story is one that is about the power of love..And when you think about it..Luck...I got adopted by the greatest folks in the world...

Personally, I abhor abortion and wish it never happened. I know it won't be a popular position around here, but I actually support a lot of the restrictions states place on it. Not against life or health, of course, but when it comes to waiting periods, parental notification, even sonograms, I'm ok with it. I don't think Roe should be overturned though, because that would not reduce abortions, just cause them to be dangerous and unsanitary, ultimately costing women's lives. I hope Iceweasel and I can still be friends ;)

38 darthstar  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:23:10pm

Trying to give a fuck about Tanpenceller...not working.

39 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:23:23pm

Hi Lizards!
Ok, now, back to my squishy little shell...

40 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:23:45pm

re: #39 OhNoZombies!

Hi Lizards!
Ok, now, back to my squishy little shell...

Upding for having the courage to come out.

41 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:24:08pm

re: #36 laZardo

Hey-hey, goodbye?

:x

50s Doo-Wop. That Bowser crap has murked up the YouTubes.

42 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:24:57pm

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Creeping Sha-na-na-na.

these ultra pious crackpots make me grumpy...they've had the benefit of the doubt for too long

43 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:25:10pm

re: #38 darthstar

Trying to give a fuck about Tanpenceller...not working.

Do not take Tanpenceller while intoxicated. Side effects include headaches, emotional outbursts and excessive anal seepage.

44 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:25:27pm

re: #39 OhNoZombies!

Hi Lizards!
Ok, now, back to my squishy little shell...

Blue crab?

45 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:25:29pm

re: #39 OhNoZombies!

Hi Lizards!
Ok, now, back to my squishy little shell...

Heh, hiya.

46 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:26:03pm

Thanks for the encouragement. :)

47 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:26:30pm

"Islam scholar Robert Spencer"

I couldn't get past this part. Too much laughing.

48 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:27:25pm

re: #39 OhNoZombies!

FLOUNCER!

/

49 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:27:34pm

"Jewish scholar David Duke"

50 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:27:49pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

"Islam scholar Robert Spencer"

I couldn't get past this part. Too much laughing.

"Judaism scholar Mel Gibson."

51 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:28:08pm

"Physics scholars the Insane Clown Posse"

52 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:28:30pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

Congrads SJ on passing the bar..Good Luck and give em hell..

53 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:28:34pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

Nope. I think I'm Some kinda crocagator.

54 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:28:41pm

Father Christopher Hitchens.

55 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:29:37pm

re: #49 SpaceJesus

"Jewish scholar David Duke"

DAMMIT!!!

56 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:29:49pm

re: #51 SpaceJesus

Yeah, congrat SJ. You did good and we're proud of you. ;o)

57 Spocomptonite  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:31:21pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

"Islam scholar Robert Spencer"

I couldn't get past this part. Too much laughing.

Democracy Scholar Kim Jong-Il

58 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:32:20pm

English language scholar Sarah Palin.

59 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:33:28pm

re: #51 SpaceJesus

"Physics scholars the Insane Clown Posse"

Violent J, PhD
Shaggy 2 Dope, MD

60 Spocomptonite  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:34:09pm

re: #58 CuriousLurker

English language scholar Sarah Palin.

Communications scholar Sarah Palin

wait OH SHI--

61 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:35:20pm

Race relations scholar Andrew Breitbart

62 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:35:54pm

Genealogist/Dentist/Realestate Dealer Orly Taitz.

63 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:36:00pm

British Minister of Airport Security
Snoop Dog
/And his entourage

64 darthstar  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:36:12pm

re: #60 Spocomptonite

Communications scholar Sarah Palin

wait OH SHI--

Just because she got a degree doesn't mean she got an education.

65 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:36:43pm

re: #48 laZardo

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

66 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:38:10pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

wanna see my scars?

67 zora  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:38:36pm

re: #50 Atlas Fails

"Judaism scholar Mel Gibson."

he's making a movie about the maccabees and that's not a joke, although it should be.

68 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:38:41pm

re: #49 SpaceJesus

"Jewish scholar David Duke"

That one is the best one since Spencer talks about Muslims and Islam the same way Duke does about Jews and Judaism. TWo sides of the same nasty coin.

69 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:38:50pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

No worries. I only point out typos if they are really funny.

70 Spocomptonite  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:38:56pm

Western Culture Studies scholar Osama bin Laden.

And really any other crazy-extreme "the west is evil" jihad proclaimer.

And really, that's exactly what "islam scholar" Spencer et al are. The inverted but identical image of the extremists they proclaim to be against.

71 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:39:00pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

*hands ONZ some Xanax and a brown paper bag* Just breathe, you'll be fine.

72 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:39:13pm

re: #66 albusteve

wanna see my scars?

Don't go all LBJ-ey on him.

73 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:39:15pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

everyon=everyone
Little IPhone buttons...

74 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:39:25pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

It's okay, we're like family here...wait, you're not another one of YoungLibertarian's sock puppets are you? ARE YOU!?!?/

75 darthstar  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:39:25pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

Correct use of an apostrophe, proper capitalization, and consistent verb tense usage. What are you, some kind of government spy? Wait...you misspelled "everyone" so it's okay...you can stay.

76 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:39:51pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

I'm the scrawny little punk that's gonna take your lunch money after math class. ;D

77 darthstar  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:40:07pm

re: #66 albusteve

wanna see my scars?

Have you been circumcising yourself again?

78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:40:20pm

SPCA Director - Michael Vick

79 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:40:40pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

Don't go all LBJ-ey on him.

Mr Happy is pretty tame these days

80 zora  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:41:31pm

gay counselor marcus bachmann. wait, what?

81 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:41:38pm

re: #73 OhNoZombies!

everyon=everyone
Little IPhone buttons...

Oh, we're sorry, but there are too many Apple users already on this board. You can try re-registering in about a year...

82 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:43:15pm

Crazy people are crazy.

Just took a glance at the comments over at that sewer.

One can't help but think how Osama bin Laden has succeeded in turning a large segment of American society into a bunch of mouth breathing psychotic lunatics for a long time to come.

83 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:43:19pm

Another day that separates us from the Yawning Gulf pissed away--'Nite, all.

84 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:43:34pm

re: #67 zora

he's making a movie about the maccabees and that's not a joke, although it should be.

I have nothing but respect for the Jewish people. I especially admire your thrift and business acumen.

///necessary?

85 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:46:26pm

re: #82 Gus 802

Crazy people are crazy.

Just took a glance at the comments over at that sewer.

One can't help but think how Osama bin Laden has succeeded in turning a large segment of American society into a bunch of mouth breathing psychotic lunatics for a long time to come.

My mom liked Chris Christie. Then I told her about his press conference, where he called the people scared of creeping sharia "crazies."

There was froth at the mouth after about twenty seconds of her saying lots of angry stuff...

86 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:46:46pm

re: #74 Atlas Fails

But, but, regulations, and, and the government, and Obamaca
//
Oh he'll, I can't even fake that sh_t.

87 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:46:56pm

re: #82 Gus 802

Crazy people are crazy.

Just took a glance at the comments over at that sewer.

One can't help but think how Osama bin Laden has succeeded in turning a large segment of American society into a bunch of mouth breathing psychotic lunatics for a long time to come.

I think we get the last laugh on that one

88 darthstar  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:47:07pm

re: #83 Decatur Deb

Another day that separates us from the Yawning Gulf pissed away--'Nite, all.

Wouldn't it be cool if when we died we just got eaten by a giant subterranean worm in one bite and that was it?

89 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:47:20pm

re: #87 albusteve

I think we get the last laugh on that one

I'm still waiting.

90 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:47:51pm

re: #88 darthstar

Wouldn't it be cool if when we died we just got eaten by a giant subterranean worm in one bite and that was it?

Ummm yeah... how cool would that be, huh?

*slowly backs away*

91 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:48:25pm

re: #89 Gus 802

I'm still waiting.

chin up....he's pushing up daisies and your not

92 SpaceJesus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:48:47pm

re: #68 HappyWarrior

That one is the best one since Spencer talks about Muslims and Islam the same way Duke does about Jews and Judaism. TWo sides of the same nasty coin.

yup. same old fascism, different costume.

93 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:49:00pm

re: #90 JasonA

Ummm yeah... how cool would that be, huh?

*slowly backs away*

I think I'd rather go by running into a guy with a bow tie and a blue phone box and knowing something about the story, but not being his companion.

Kiss of death, but at least you die in a cool, dramatic way.

94 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:49:30pm

re: #88 darthstar

Wouldn't it be cool if when we died we just got eaten by a giant subterranean worm in one bite and that was it?

Um....no?

95 darthstar  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:49:35pm

re: #90 JasonA

Ummm yeah... how cool would that be, huh?

*slowly backs away*

Well, maybe people wouldn't be getting their panties in a twist over fake fears of sharia law or legislating women's uteruses for sport.

96 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:49:48pm

re: #81 JasonA

You dare defy the Apple Gods !!! Blasphemer !!!
:)

97 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:50:51pm

re: #91 albusteve

chin up...he's pushing up daisies and your not

The point is that OBL and Al Qaeda have succeeded in turning many people in this country into bat shit lunatics for a long time to come. There's no two ways around that.

98 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:51:18pm

re: #92 SpaceJesus

yup. same old fascism, different costume.

Tell me about it man. My big paper this semester for my Russian history class is on Anti Antisemitism in that country between 1880 and 1914. The similarities are down right eerie in the hostility and perceptions of disloyalty.

99 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:51:34pm

re: #88 darthstar

Wouldn't it be cool if when we died we just got eaten by a giant subterranean worm in one bite and that was it?

Image: tentacular.jpg

100 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:52:04pm

re: #95 darthstar

Well, maybe people wouldn't be getting their panties in a twist over fake fears of sharia law or legislating women's uteruses for sport.

Nope. This problem wouldn't even go away if we were all destined to die by sandworm.

101 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:52:10pm

re: #88 darthstar

Wouldn't it be cool if when we died we just got eaten by a giant subterranean worm in one bite and that was it?

Or fed to one. Unless you're Boba Fett.

102 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:52:45pm

re: #96 OhNoZombies!

You dare defy the Apple Gods !!! Blasphemer !!!
:)

I do! And since I have none of their products they have to track me down!

Bazinga!

103 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:53:14pm

re: #101 laZardo

Or fed to one. Unless you're Boba Fett.

...in which case you're torn to shreds by a giant sand vagina.

104 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:53:41pm

re: #97 Gus 802

I finally watched "Top Secret America" this past weekend. It was really interesting, but...ugh. The money involved. No one even knows for sure how much.

105 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:53:43pm

re: #103 Atlas Fails

...in which case you're torn to shreds by a giant sand vagina.

He escaped, dammit! Expanded Universe says so!

106 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:53:54pm

re: #97 Gus 802

The point is that OBL and Al Qaeda have succeeded in turning many people in this country into bat shit lunatics for a long time to come. There's no two ways around that.

I...have this uncanny knack to simply detach myself from it....when 300k godbots march on DC, I'll pay closer attention, and buy an extra can of gun oil...lots of blather that don't mean shit

107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:55:52pm

re: #97 Gus 802

And we hated the Emperor... hated the Kaiser... hated the Fuehrer... King George... OBL... Lil' Kim... Tom Cruise...

Face it, we didn't invent boogie men, but American's have always had a dude to hate. But... we mostly (IMO) just hate back.

108 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:56:32pm

re: #105 JasonA

He escaped, dammit! Expanded Universe says so!

Right, and Jason Vorhees was criogenically frozen for one thousand years before being released on a gang of horny teenagers aboard a space station. Sometimes, writers just need to leave well enough alone.

109 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:56:34pm

re: #104 CuriousLurker

I finally watched "Top Secret America" this past weekend. It was really interesting, but...ugh. The money involved. No one even knows for sure how much.

Yep. Haven't watched it yet other than the reading and the clips. The money involved is hard to track. Especially given many of the black budgets involved.

110 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:56:58pm

re: #105 JasonA

Yes! This! Boba got out!

111 garhighway  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:59:32pm

re: #37 Atlas Fails

Personally, I abhor abortion and wish it never happened. I know it won't be a popular position around here, but I actually support a lot of the restrictions states place on it. Not against life or health, of course, but when it comes to waiting periods, parental notification, even sonograms, I'm ok with it. I don't think Roe should be overturned though, because that would not reduce abortions, just cause them to be dangerous and unsanitary, ultimately costing women's lives. I hope Iceweasel and I can still be friends ;)

What other medical procedures should the state forcibly impose upon women?

112 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:59:44pm

re: #109 Gus 802

Yep. Haven't watched it yet other than the reading and the clips. The money involved is hard to track. Especially given many of the black budgets involved.

there is an entire netherworld of govt the public is not privy too....been that way forever....the CIA wrote the book decades ago

113 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:00:42pm

re: #111 garhighway

What other medical procedures should the state forcibly impose upon women?

forced consumption of high grade weed

114 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:00:57pm

re: #107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And we hated the Emperor... hated the Kaiser... hated the Fuehrer... King George... OBL... Lil' Kim... Tom Cruise...

Face it, we didn't invent boogie men, but American's have always had a dude to hate. But... we mostly (IMO) just hate back.

That's different though. Hating OBL, Al Qaeda or a specific enemy is only natural. That's sort of the opposite of what I was talking about though where it become a pathology or a pathway towards xenophobia, racism, etc. Hating the Fuehrer and becoming deranged about all things German or Austrian for example. Closest we ever came to that was with the Japanese but even that was short lived compared to what's going on here save for a few Pacific front war veterans.

115 garhighway  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:01:18pm

re: #113 albusteve

forced consumption of high grade weed

Why just women? No fair!

116 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:01:39pm

re: #112 albusteve

there is an entire netherworld of govt the public is not privy too...been that way forever...the CIA wrote the book decades ago

Yes, but that was nothing compared to what we have now in this post 9/11 era.

117 albusteve  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:03:37pm

re: #116 Gus 802

Yes, but that was nothing compared to what we have now in this post 9/11 era.

yes, it's always been something because it's innaccessable....the threats are greater so the size has increased and become more sophisticated....old meme tho

118 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:03:57pm

So Samsung and Microsoft settled, with Samsung having to pay M$ for each Android device they sell. Google had this to say on the matter:

This is the same tactic we’ve seen time and again from Microsoft. Failing to succeed in the smartphone market, they are resorting to legal measures to extort profit from others’ achievements and hinder the pace of innovation. We remain focused on building new technology and supporting Android partners.

Microsoft's response, from Head of Communications Frank Shaw:

Image: micrososft-twitter-540x215.png

Stay classy, patent trolls.

119 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:03:59pm

re: #111 garhighway

What other medical procedures should the state forcibly impose upon women?

To me, it's like cigarette labeling. Cigs are and should be legal, but I'm all for graphic labeling to dissuade people from buying. Maybe forced sonograms are going a bit far, but is a waiting period or adoption counseling? The ultimate choice should be the woman's, but I don't see a problem with making sure that she's aware of what she's doing and the alternatives.

120 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:05:04pm

re: #46 OhNoZombies!

Thanks for the encouragement. :)

Welcome.

121 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:14:11pm

re: #3 Atlas Fails

Disclaimer: my opinions on abortion are complex and constantly evolving, so I don't want to rag on pro-lifers. A lot of right to life groups are fucking weird though.

That you for that. Your point is well made. It's entirely possible to be pro-life/anti-abortion and be a decent and honest person. But those who follow Tom Tancredo are either bigoted or lying to themselves. Tancredo is nothing but an asshole nativist.

122 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:14:24pm

I see we just had one of them show up downstairs...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]


Where's LVQ when you need him...

123 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:16:54pm

re: #119 Atlas Fails

To me, it's like cigarette labeling. Cigs are and should be legal, but I'm all for graphic labeling to dissuade people from buying. Maybe forced sonograms are going a bit far, but is a waiting period or adoption counseling? The ultimate choice should be the woman's, but I don't see a problem with making sure that she's aware of what she's doing and the alternatives.

A counseling session and a short waiting period (with those requirements waived if waiting would cause risk of death or physical injury to the woman) would be reasonable. How the counseling would be structured is something that would need very careful consideration, but I think a decent arrangement could be worked out.

124 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:16:57pm

re: #116 Gus 802

I think we got scared in addition to being enraged. We've only suffered massive casualties due to sudden attacks on American soil by foreigners in two instances that I can think of since the Revolutionary War: Pearl Harbor & 9/11. (I'm counting Hawaii even though it wasn't a state at the time.)

We're not accustomed to that. In both cases the enemy was easily identifiable as "the other", even when they weren't, hence the Japanese American internment camps and the current Islamophobia.

125 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:17:49pm

re: #117 albusteve

yes, it's always been something because it's innaccessable...the threats are greater so the size has increased and become more sophisticated...old meme tho

Sophisticated as in the paperwork that likely would have stopped the 9/11 hijackers from remaining in this country. Sophisticated as in not doing a pat down search in Boston after one group of hijackers set of the metal detectors at the airport. Of course this sophistication does keep the pigs at the trough of the terrorist/security industry in both the private and public sectors.

126 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:18:10pm

re: #120 makeitstop

Thank you.
Really, thank you all for the sanity.
I live in Ohio...

127 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:24:46pm

re: #125 Gus 802

re: #125 Gus 802

Of course this sophistication does keep the pigs at the trough of the terrorist/security industry in both the private and public sectors.

The whole thing has grown exponentially too. In terms of complexity, money, and people involved. I was astounded at some of the numbers they were rattling off in that film. Not to mention how bloated and useless a lot of it is.

128 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:25:24pm

re: #119 Atlas Fails

To me, it's like cigarette labeling. Cigs are and should be legal, but I'm all for graphic labeling to dissuade people from buying. Maybe forced sonograms are going a bit far, but is a waiting period or adoption counseling? The ultimate choice should be the woman's, but I don't see a problem with making sure that she's aware of what she's doing and the alternatives.

The problem with this is that the 100% of the people that support these laws are against abortion. They will never stop, even if they have to take away healthcare from the poor.

We live in a world where some people are going to do things that you don't approve of. I suggest you learn to deal.

129 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:26:41pm

re: #122 freetoken

I see we just had one of them show up downstairs...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Where's LVQ when you need him...

Meh, don't worry about him. He's trying to argue, not spew like a troll. He can be handled without rancor for now.

130 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:27:43pm

re: #128 Iwouldprefernotto

The problem with this is that the 100% of the people that support these laws are against abortion. They will never stop, even if they have to take away healthcare from the poor.

We live in a world where some people are going to do things that you don't approve of. I suggest you learn to deal.

And if they try to take overturn Roe or shut down Planned Parenthood, I will oppose them both vocally and at the voting booth. That doesn't mean I don't support some restrictions on abortion.

131 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:29:33pm

re: #130 Atlas Fails

And if they try to take overturn Roe or shut down Planned Parenthood, I will oppose them both vocally and at the voting booth. That doesn't mean I don't support some restrictions on abortion.

And I agree, but most conservatives don't want restrictions on anything else guns, CO2, hookers with too many tats, etc.

132 Atlas Fails  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:30:56pm

re: #131 Iwouldprefernotto

And I agree, but most conservatives don't want restrictions on anything else guns, CO2, hookers with too many tats, etc.

No arguments here; that's why I'm a liberal Democrat.

'Night all.

133 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:31:21pm

Folks, midnight is fast approaching on the East Coast and I have an early day tomorrow, so I'm outta here. Have a good night.

134 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:33:29pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

A counseling session and a short waiting period (with those requirements waived if waiting would cause risk of death or physical injury to the woman) would be reasonable. How the counseling would be structured is something that would need very careful consideration, but I think a decent arrangement could be worked out.

A counseling session? Are you serious? Are you suggesting that most women are too stupid to consider the ramifications before stepping into the clinic?

Counseling sessions will be used by right wingers for one purpose only: to persuade women not to get an abortion.

135 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:35:16pm

re: #127 CuriousLurker

re: #125 Gus 802

The whole thing has grown exponentially too. In terms of complexity, money, and people involved. I was astounded at some of the numbers they were rattling off in that film. Not to mention how bloated and useless a lot of it is.

It's too late now. Nothing we can do. Once we create a government bureaucracy it almost never goes back to normal. Plus, there's a huge profit motive here.

136 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:36:32pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

A counseling session and a short waiting period (with those requirements waived if waiting would cause risk of death or physical injury to the woman) would be reasonable. How the counseling would be structured is something that would need very careful consideration, but I think a decent arrangement could be worked out.

How would you feel if I told you that you need counseling? Because you do.

137 compound idaho  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:36:39pm

re: #128 Iwouldprefernotto

The problem with this is that the 100% of the people that support these laws are against abortion. They will never stop, even if they have to take away healthcare from the poor.

We live in a world where some people are going to do things that you don't approve of. I suggest you learn to deal.

And 100% of the pro choice crowd are anti choice on vaccinations because they are just good public policy. Privacy, personal choice, it is my body be damned. Government knows whats best. Phen-phen thalidomide excepted.

138 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:38:27pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

How would you feel if I told you that you need counseling? Because you do.

What the Hell brought that on?

139 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:38:43pm

re: #135 Gus 802

It's too late now. Nothing we can do. Once we create a government bureaucracy it almost never goes back to normal. Plus, there's a huge profit motive here.

Why complain if it can't be fixed? q:

140 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:38:48pm

re: #137 compound idaho

You do not have a right to use your own body as an incubation chamber for bacteria and viruses that are a grave danger to others around you.

141 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:39:25pm

So the Yankees, trying really hard to really rub the Red Sox's noses in it, are fielding a team in the top of the 11th inning with batting averages of:

.105, .125, .259, .237, .265, .259, .167, .256 and .188.

FOUR guys batting under .200?

I mean, yeah, the Sox maybe deserve to be playing golf later this week given how shitty they played in September.

But FOUR guys batting under .200?

Y'know, you guys could at least make an attempt to pretend you're interested in winning the game.

Grrr.

142 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:43:21pm

re: #137 compound idaho

And 100% of the pro choice crowd are anti choice on vaccinations because they are just good public policy. Privacy, personal choice, it is my body be damned. Government knows whats best. Phen-phen thalidomide excepted.

Change 100% to a handful and you will be accurate. My kids grew up on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and they and all their friends had all their shots. I know that UWS is not as liberal as San Fran...

The anti vaccine crowd gets some media attention, but most doctors convince their patients to have their kids vaccinated. (85% according to NPR).

143 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:43:31pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell brought that on?

You don't think exactly the way he does.
Therefore, you need counseling.

144 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:45:06pm

They should put graphic warning labels on sun visors to show people what you'd look like if you didn't wear seat belts and got into a serious accident.

//

145 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:46:07pm

They should put graphic warning labels on cans of sugar laden soda to show people what an infected leg looks like as a result of diabetes.

146 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:47:36pm

re: #144 Gus 802

I try to always carry a skull inside my head as a reminder of mortality.

147 bratwurst  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:47:41pm

re: #145 Gus 802

They should put graphic warning labels on cans of sugar laden soda to show people what an infected leg looks like as a result of diabetes.

This is obviously extreme, but it is also a fact that the results of the obesity epidemic in this country are destined to make the impact of smoking on the health system seem like an outbreak of pink eye.

148 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:48:14pm

re: #139 laZardo

Why complain if it can't be fixed? q:

Do you think we can "fix" the world of the Tancredos, Gellers, and Spencers of the world?

149 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:54:26pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

What the Hell brought that on?

You display a consistent and absolutely appalling empathy deficit, and you know it. You've stated that you won't even try to put yourself in a woman's shoes because you're not a woman and you find the task simply beyond your capabilities. Same with gays, blacks, anybody you're not has some point of view that you won't even try on for size. You embrace lies, and when confronted about them make excuses for their necessity or just disappear. You've stated that many of your beliefs stem simply from the word of people you trust, with no critical examination or real self thought. Now you sit here and advocate forcing pregnant women to go through a counseling session before they can control their bodies. The shape or form of that counseling session is in fact irrelevant, you're advocating that people other than you, people you refuse to even try to empathize with, be forced to listen to an external evaluation of their condition, in effect a physical and mental health evaluation. This, coming from you, makes me laugh.

150 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:55:22pm

re: #148 Gus 802

Do you think we can "fix" the world of the Tancredos, Gellers, and Spencers of the world?

There will always be bigotry in every generation, and perhaps it is an inevitable result of technology bringing us together against our tribal/societal urges.

But to assume there is nothing that can be done about it quite frankly implies that humanity will most likely wipe itself out over it. Despite history rhyming, the fact that we have not openly evicted and corraled entire ethnicities about it - along with the efforts of people to chip away at bigotry despite the loud voices of the bigots - should at least be counted as a step in the right direction.

151 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:55:55pm

re: #137 compound idaho
I don't understand how you can equate terminating a pregnancy, with vaccinations.
Unless you don't believe the people around you should have the right to choose not to let their children get really sick.
Just looking for clarification...

152 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:04:54pm

Wondering where this is going.

153 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:06:57pm

re: #152 Gus 802

Wondering where this is going.

Let me give you a hint. We're all in a hand basket.

154 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:07:27pm

re: #153 EmmmieG

... and it's getting warm...

155 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:07:42pm

re: #150 laZardo

Speaking as a Filipino - the one to ask if America is an "empire" - I would have to say that not everything is so black-and-white. Yes, there was Marcos, the bases, everything dating back to 1899. And there are still stereotypes of overseas Filipino workers as maids, nurses, etc.

Does this mean that as a Filipino I should harbor some kind of vengeful grudge about it? It might, but more specifically, would it be constructive to me as a person (and to my society) to do so?

Certainly not. The superpowers will keep playing their games of influence. That's what politics does, and what politicians do. But we might as well try to make the best out of what results, even if it isn't much. "Not much" didn't stop the blacks from fighting for their civil rights since the early 1800s, and "not much" hasn't stopped the Islamic community in America since 9/11 from trying to show they're nothing like the fundamentalists that can sometimes lurk in their midst.

I like to think the fact that Park51 is open and standing despite all the shouting and screaming is testament to that.

And with that, I gotta get a late dinner, BBL.

156 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:07:49pm

re: #153 EmmmieG

Let me give you a hint. We're all in a hand basket.

Care for some lemonade?

157 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:07:51pm

re: #152 Gus 802

I don't think there's a good 'freedom to be diseased' argument.

158 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:10:17pm

re: #157 jaunte

I don't think there's a good 'freedom to be diseased' argument.

No, people have the right to be mentally insane. We decided this; you can no longer lock someone up just for being out of touch with reality. It's being a danger to yourself, not just talking to the unicorns, that gets you locked up.

159 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:11:19pm

re: #158 EmmmieG

True, I was thinking of diseases other than mental.

160 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:12:51pm

re: #157 jaunte

I don't think there's a good 'freedom to be diseased' argument.

Such as smoking? High risk sexual lifestyles? Prostitution? Drugs? Air shows? Football head injuries? Boxing? Mountain climbing? Eating like a pig every day? ...

161 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:13:08pm

re: #159 jaunte

True, I was thinking of diseases other than mental.

I think if you contracted cancer, you would be allowed to die.

Right this second, Prince is tooling around in a scooter because his religion forbids blood transfusions, and he can't get the hip operation he needs without a blood transfusion.

162 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:14:01pm

re: #160 Gus 802

re: #161 EmmmieG

Let me add "communicable " to disease as a modifier.

163 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:14:16pm

It's funny though but living in America is like a constant struggle between left wing control freaks and right wing control freaks.

164 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:14:56pm

re: #162 jaunte

re: #161 EmmmieG

Let me add "communicable " to disease as a modifier.

Oh, oh, oh. See. Too late for me. I went off being paranoid and sounding like a Teabagger.

//Hides in corner.

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:15:47pm

re: #162 jaunte

re: #161 EmmmieG

Let me add "communicable " to disease as a modifier.

Oh, yeah. Typhoid Mary learned that one. No, you can't be a disease carrier and keep working as a cook.

166 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:17:31pm

re: #162 jaunte

re: #161 EmmmieG

Let me add "communicable " to disease as a modifier.

Which is why we should require paid sick days.

OK, I fess up to being a bit of a control freak. ;) It's the end of the day and I'm having a couple of sips of that dreaded whiskey stuff.

167 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:18:08pm

re: #163 Gus 802

It's funny though but living in America is like a constant struggle between left wing control freaks and right wing control freaks.

168 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:18:26pm

Y'all are clearly missing the bigger picture of this convergence:

They're halfway towards forming Moronic Bigot Voltron.

169 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:18:50pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Which is why we should require paid sick days.

OK, I fess up to being a bit of a control freak. ;) It's the end of the day and I'm having a couple of sips of that dreaded whiskey stuff.

We were actually discussing this as a family the other day. Most of those "perfect attendance records" come at the expense of co-workers.

170 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:19:06pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

Oh, yeah. Typhoid Mary learned that one. No, you can't be a disease carrier and keep working as a cook.

Your right to swing your arm ends when you hit someone's nose, and your right to cough ends when your microbe-filled snot/spit droplets enter another's airspace.

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:20:18pm

re: #170 publicityStunted

Your right to swing your arm ends when you hit someone's nose, and your right to cough ends when your microbe-filled snot/spit droplets enter another's airspace.

Mmm. Glad I already ate dinner.

172 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:21:56pm

re: #169 EmmmieG

We were actually discussing this as a family the other day. Most of those "perfect attendance records" come at the expense of co-workers.

Big time. So big business will complain that paid sick days will reduce profit margins. But what is the total societal cost of having people come into work sick. In many cases extending illnesses and spreading communicable diseases. Business wise what's the cost in reduced productivity from having someone come into work sick and possibly extending the length of recovery for said employee?

173 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:22:38pm

re: #166 Gus 802

It's the end of the day and I'm having a couple of sips of that dreaded whiskey stuff.

Dr. Jim Swan (an independent consultant to the worldwide drinks industry)
says that single malt whiskey has more antioxidants than red wine.
///

[Link: www.winesnspiritz.com...]

174 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:23:30pm

re: #173 jaunte

Dr. Jim Swan (an independent consultant to the worldwide drinks industry)
says that single malt whiskey has more antioxidants than red wine.
///

[Link: www.winesnspiritz.com...]

Clearly Dr. Swan is just a mouthpiece for Big Whiskey.

//

175 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:23:35pm

re: #172 Gus 802

Big time. So big business will complain that paid sick days will reduce profit margins. But what is the total societal cost of having people come into work sick. In many cases extending illnesses and spreading communicable diseases. Business wise what's the cost in reduced productivity from having someone come into work sick and possibly extending the length of recovery for said employee?

I wish schools, now that the internet is available, would make it easier for kids to miss days. I understand that they need those bodies in the seats for funding, but they make it hard to catch up. Last year my daughter said a friend of hers who is bi-polar had to come back to school while still trying to adjust to the new meds, which apparently isn't easy.

176 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:23:48pm

Ketiva ve-chatima tovah, btw.

I'm going to go crack a pomegranate. It's like safe cracking, but tastier.

177 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:24:35pm

re: #170 publicityStunted

Your right to swing your arm ends when you hit someone's nose, and your right to cough ends when your microbe-filled snot/spit droplets enter another's airspace.

Quite Concur.

Sorry I dropped off there, I was doing research again.

178 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:25:39pm

re: #172 Gus 802

Business wise what's the cost in reduced productivity from having someone come into work sick and possibly extending the length of recovery for said employee?

That touches on another huge peeve of mine, idiotic companies who won't let employees work from home even when it's perfectly doable for the nature of the job (like much IT-driven office work). I mean, it's a win-win! A worker still infectious, but well enough to complete certain tasks, could be allowed to telecommute until it's safe to enter the office again. Hell, in a "contagion"-style scenario, it might be the only way to keep certain services running!

179 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:27:07pm

re: #174 Gus 802

Clearly Dr. Swan is just a mouthpiece for Big Whiskey.

//

And of the Groogrux King, too?

/Riff off of the name of a Dave Matthews Bands album name.

180 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:27:27pm

re: #168 The Ghost of a Flea
Well then no worries -- the internal pressure should make the head pop right off.

181 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:28:03pm

Amazing survivor of the Cartel wars in Mexico:
Sinaloa woman survives live grenade in face

182 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:28:05pm

re: #178 publicityStunted

That touches on another huge peeve of mine, idiotic companies who won't let employees work from home even when it's perfectly doable for the nature of the job (like much IT-driven office work). I mean, it's a win-win! A worker still infectious, but well enough to complete certain tasks, could be allowed to telecommute until it's safe to enter the office again. Hell, in a "contagion"-style scenario, it might be the only way to keep certain services running!

Yep. Or genius employer who has no paid sick days literally forces a sick employer to come into work which results in 12 of his other employees getting sick. Duh-e!

183 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:29:36pm

re: #182 Gus 802

That's one thing my workplace is really good at; forcing people to go home as soon as they start getting symptomatic.

184 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:31:37pm

re: #181 jaunte

Amazing survivor of the Cartel wars in Mexico:
Sinaloa woman survives live grenade in face

Ouch. Makes me sick how we're doing so little for Mexico compared to all the money and lives we've wasted with Pakistan. We're ignoring Mexico to our own detriment in the long run. And those drug cartels are supplying users in this country.

185 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:33:34pm

Hey. What's the planet to the east right now?

186 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:36:48pm

re: #181 jaunte

Amazing survivor of the Cartel wars in Mexico:
Sinaloa woman survives live grenade in face

That is amazing. From the x-ray, it was a dud 40mm grenade. Likely launched from an M-203 GL, normally mounted on an AR-15/M-16 rifle. Both the Mexican army and the cartels use this weapon.

187 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:39:29pm

re: #184 Gus 802

Ouch. Makes me sick how we're doing so little for Mexico compared to all the money and lives we've wasted with Pakistan. We're ignoring Mexico to our own detriment in the long run. And those drug cartels are supplying users in this country.

The problem is that we can't act directly in Mexico without touching off a domestic political firestorm and likely making the short-term problems worse.

188 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:43:20pm

re: #185 Gus 802

Hey. What's the planet to the east right now?

Venus?
[Link: www.skyandtelescope.com...]

189 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:45:27pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

We might as well annex it, in order to try to fix the problems, but they are systemic, and very ingrained, and the ruling class has so much more power than the rest of the people, I don't know where to start.

190 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:45:47pm

re: #188 jaunte

In the east ... it should be Jupiter then Uranusm, first...

191 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:47:09pm

I see that Mars is in the Beehive cluster. Those of you with binoculars should find it a delightful sight.

192 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:47:28pm

re: #189 Floral Giraffe

We might as well annex it, in order to try to fix the problems, but they are systemic, and very ingrained, and the ruling class has so much more power than the rest of the people, I don't know where to start.

Well...annexing it would solve that whole "illegal immigrant" problem, but I think the Mexicans might have a few objections.

193 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:50:27pm

Tancredo's wing of the Republicans is really far out there if Rick Perry is too liberal for them. I mean, too liberal? Perry?

Oh well. Sooner or later there'll be a straight vote and we'll get to see who's long on talk and who has real support.

194 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:54:09pm

re: #191 freetoken

I see that Mars is in the Beehive cluster. Those of you with binoculars should find it a delightful sight.

Just turn until the sky looks like this [Link: www.fourmilab.ch...]

195 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:57:00pm

re: #193 lostlakehiker

Tancredo's wing of the Republicans is really far out there if Rick Perry is too liberal for them. I mean, too liberal? Perry?

He's really damaged himself on the issue of in state tuition for illegal immigrant kids who grew up in Texas. The atavists really took offense at (correctly) being labeled heartless. He's now in damage control mode:

Unable to escape the ire of his party, Rick Perry on Wednesday backed away from a controversial remark that questioned the compassion of people who opposed granting in-state tuition to the children of illegal immigrants.

At Thursday’s Republican presidential debate in Orlando, Fla., the Texas governor defended his decision to sign into law a policy that allows the children of illegal immigrants to pay in-state college tuition by suggesting that opponents of the policy "don't have a heart."

“I probably chose a poor word to explain that,” Perry said Wednesday in an interview with Newsmax. “For people who don’t want their state to be giving tuition to illegal aliens, illegal immigrants in this country, that’s their call. And I respect that.”

196 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:58:10pm

re: #192 EmmmieG

Well...annexing it would solve that whole "illegal immigrant" problem, but I think the Mexicans might have a few objections.

Moreover, it would alter the political culture of the US greatly. Drop that many new states and that many additional voters into the mix and I don't know what the fallout would be.

So sorry, Floral, but that idea is a non-starter. Americans would not want it and Mexicans would not want it.

197 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:00:14pm

re: #190 freetoken

In the east ... it should be Jupiter then Uranusm, first...

I think it might be Jupiter. Using the Weather Underground star chart.

198 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:01:12pm

re: #197 Gus 802

I think it might be Jupiter. Using the Weather Underground star chart.

Link

199 jaunte  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:01:22pm

re: #195 goddamnedfrank

“I probably chose a poor word to explain that,” Perry said Wednesday in an interview with Newsmax.

It should have been "brainless". Charging the same tuition fees to all students would mean a more educated population, which would be better for the state.

200 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:04:49pm

re: #197 Gus 802

I think it might be Jupiter. Using the Weather Underground star chart.

Peronist Gus 802 admits he supported Bill Ayers campaign of terror!!1 His true reason for supporting Obama is now know: HE WANTS OBAMA TO DESTROY REAL AMERICA AND MOVE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY INTO SOCIALISM!!!11

/Stalker Blog

201 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:08:59pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

/Stalker Blog

...

Peronist Gus 802 had a bad case of diarrhea today! Gus 802 had a headache today! Gus 802 is in Nevada tonight! Gus 802 has VW! Gus 802 is drinking whiskey! Gus 802 had neck pain again! Gus 802 is out of work again! Gus 802 ate too much! Gus 802 woke up this morning! Gus 802 went to sleep at 9:30 PM last night!

//Stalker blog.

/

202 Gus  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:17:48pm

Bed time. Later folks.

203 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:18:47pm

re: #181 jaunte

Amazing survivor of the Cartel wars in Mexico:
Sinaloa woman survives live grenade in face

She was probably shot at close range, inside the arming distance of the grenade.

204 Lidane  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:23:04pm

re: #189 Floral Giraffe

We might as well annex it, in order to try to fix the problems, but they are systemic, and very ingrained, and the ruling class has so much more power than the rest of the people, I don't know where to start.

No one knows where to start. The political graft and problems in Mexico date back to the conquistadors. Trying to fix it would involve changing centuries of deeply corrupt politics.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:23:21pm

More Baby Kittehs!

Roar!

& a baby elephant all in one link!

How is everyone?

206 Lidane  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:25:30pm

re: #193 lostlakehiker

Tancredo's wing of the Republicans is really far out there if Rick Perry is too liberal for them. I mean, too liberal? Perry?

Tancredo's wing of the party thinks anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is too liberal. They're a bunch of raving lunatics.

207 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:26:05pm

A friend asked me once why we just don't buy Mexico? . . .

I thought about it and said it'd be like buying a very used Chevy Nova.

Why would one buy a very used Chevy Nova?

Exactly.

208 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:30:35pm

re: #203 goddamnedfrank

She was probably shot at close range, inside the arming distance of the grenade.

Very good insight. That would also explain the loud noise.

209 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:31:47pm

re: #189 Floral Giraffe

We might as well annex it, in order to try to fix the problems, but they are systemic, and very ingrained, and the ruling class has so much more power than the rest of the people, I don't know where to start.

You can't annex Mexico. We had the chance after the Mexican-American war and concluded that we were better off without citizens who would have had not that much in common with us. That they got Santa Anna for a ruler was an indicator of how developed they were in self-government, for instance.

The same problems evident now in Mexico were evident then.

Now, of course, the world has changed and land grabs are frowned upon. And we have the example of the Philippines to show that it probably wouldn't be pretty. So there are even more reasons not to annex Mexico.

210 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:32:24pm

Annex Mexico?

Really?

211 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:34:43pm

re: #210 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Annex Mexico?

Really?

Si!

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:42:33pm

Couldn't we just give them Texas?

213 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:44:02pm

re: #206 Lidane

Tancredo's wing of the party thinks anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is too liberal. They're a bunch of raving lunatics.

Attila the Hun was in fact far too liberal for Tancredo's tastes, as he didn't give a rat's ass what a person's religion was.

re: #207 ggt

A friend asked me once why we just don't buy Mexico? . . .

I thought about it and said it'd be like buying a very used Chevy Nova.

Why would one buy a very used Chevy Nova?

Exactly.

So you could fix it up nice and show it off to your friends?

214 freetoken  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:44:25pm

re: #212 ggt

Couldn't we just give them Texas?

Could we get a tax deduction for that?

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:44:59pm

re: #213 goddamnedfrank

Attila the Hun was in fact far too liberal for Tancredo's tastes, as he didn't give a rat's ass what a person's religion was.

re: #207 ggt

So you could fix it up nice and show it off to your friends?

and how much would that cost --after market parts and all? Would it really be worth it?

216 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:45:24pm

re: #212 ggt

Couldn't we just give them Texas?

You could sell it, but they wouln't be able to take possession. They done trahd it once and it dint wuk.

217 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:45:30pm

re: #214 freetoken

Could we get a tax deduction for that?

I don't care. If it would make everything better they can have it. gratz

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:47:55pm

re: #216 lostlakehiker

You could sell it, but they wouln't be able to take possession. They done trahd it once and it dint wuk.

I don't know. I think it would be different this time. drugs and guns and all.

219 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:48:53pm

re: #207 ggt

A friend asked me once why we just don't buy Mexico? . . .

I thought about it and said it'd be like buying a very used Chevy Nova.

Why would one buy a very used Chevy Nova?

Exactly.

The Chevy Nova didn't sell very well in Mexico...... No-va translated means No-go.

220 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:54:18pm

re: #215 ggt

and how much would that cost --after market parts and all? Would it really be worth it?

You can't put a price on hilarity.

221 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:56:18pm

Goodnight, all.

222 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:58:26pm

re: #98 HappyWarrior

Tell me about it man. My big paper this semester for my Russian history class is on Anti Antisemitism in that country between 1880 and 1914. The similarities are down right eerie in the hostility and perceptions of disloyalty.

True story, along the lines of the mouse and the lion. Friend of mine had a grandfather who served in WW2, and came back alive. OK I know already you don't believe me. But he was one of 3 out of the 100 from his village outside Kiev who came through.

Anyhow, he also came through Stalin's genocidal engineered famine in the Ukraine. How's that? Well, peasants had it bad. Real bad. Kulaks, the better off peasants, worse. They were eliminated. But city workers were another story. So gramps, back in his youth, had the sense to wangle city-worker papers from the commissar.

But, you're thinking, commissars don't do people that kind of favor. True, for the most part. But it wasn't a favor, it was the return of a favor.

Commissar's father and kulak father had their own story. One not so fine day, the cossacks were on the rampage against the Jews, like usual. And commissar's father was on the run, and fetched up at kulak's house.

The Cossacks didn't know anything specific, but they suspected just what had happened. So they asked kulak father, and kulak father answered that no, he hadn't seen the dirty k--k-, and he hoped the cossacks got their man, and they were welcome to step inside and look around.

And right behind the door, not breathing, was their man. But the cossacks were busy men and it was to them evident that kulak, with his sentiments, would never harbor one of those guys, so they said sorry but we've work to do, and went on their way.

And so, taking a big risk with his own life, the commissar returned the favor, decades later. A life for a life.

223 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:58:44pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

You can't put a price on hilarity.

Well, that is true.

We spend enough to be able to laugh at Congress as it is. Whats another few Trillion to laugh at Mexico?

224 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:06:07pm

Annexing Mexico would be horrible.

When I go to Mexico I don't want to see McMansions, manicured lawns, and proper zoning. Mexico's infrastructure is broken and that's what gives it it's charm strangely enough.

225 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:09:43pm

Wonder what the drug lords would charge for their "approval" of the sale?

226 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:09:44pm

re: #224 Mr Pancakes

Annexing Mexico would be horrible.

When I go to Mexico I don't want to see McMansions, manicured lawns, and proper zoning. Mexico's infrastructure is broken and that's what gives it it's charm strangely enough.

I'm sure Ms. Point Blank Grenade in the Face finds her country's rank dysfunction equally quaint and adorable.

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:16:11pm
228 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:22:39pm

re: #226 goddamnedfrank

I'm sure Ms. Point Blank Grenade in the Face finds her country's rank dysfunction equally quaint and adorable.

They all know it's broken...... but it's what they are accustomed to. I'm not giving any love to the violence down there believe me. I witnessed a murder in my workplace and had a neighbor just disappear. That's just two things.... I was robbed at gun point for my paycheck (US cash) and I knew the guy that robbed me. My wife's father was shot outside his home when my wife was 13 years old because he didn't let a passer by have a beer. My best friend who was of Mexican and Slavic decent was stalked and killed by the husband of the wife he was screwing. The police come around monthly asking for handouts because they have to buy their own bullets. These things are NOT endearing to me.... I hope I didn't give you that impression but apparently I did.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:23:52pm

re: #65 OhNoZombies!

I know it's sarc, but I'm nervous. It feels like the first day at a new school in the fifth grade - when everyone already knows everyon else, and their suspicious of the new kid. Oh, and the teacher is standing over your shoulder checking grammar and punctuation.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Many a lizard has had a rocky entry, but if you just keep going, you will be assimilated.

230 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:25:13pm

re: #137 compound idaho

And 100% of the pro choice crowd are anti choice on vaccinations because they are just good public policy. Privacy, personal choice, it is my body be damned. Government knows whats best. Phen-phen thalidomide excepted.

?

231 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:27:35pm

re: #213 goddamnedfrank

Attila the Hun was in fact far too liberal for Tancredo's tastes, as he didn't give a rat's ass what a person's religion was.

re: #207 ggt

So you could fix it up nice and show it off to your friends?

You know this?

Because Wikipedia's account suggests he may have not much liked Christians...

The barbarian nation of the Huns, which was in Thrace, became so great that more than a hundred cities were captured and Constantinople almost came into danger and most men fled from it. ... And there were so many murders and blood-lettings that the dead could not be numbered. Ay, for they took captive the churches and monasteries and slew the monks and maidens in great numbers. (Callinicus, in his Life of Saint Hypatius)

232 laZardo  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:29:29pm

Headin' to bed. Nighty.

233 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:31:01pm

me too!

Have a great morning all!

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:35:36pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

A counseling session and a short waiting period (with those requirements waived if waiting would cause risk of death or physical injury to the woman) would be reasonable. How the counseling would be structured is something that would need very careful consideration, but I think a decent arrangement could be worked out.

How the counseling would be structured is the spanner in the works, as far as I'm concerned.

If a woman wants counseling, I'm all for it. Requiring it...no.

235 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:37:19pm

re: #231 lostlakehiker

You know this?

Because Wikipedia's account suggests he may have not much liked Christians...

His forces killed lots of people, regardless of their religion. He care about conquering land and people, not dictating belief.

Attila the Hun allowed members of his horde to follow whichever gods they wished, so long as they didn’t interfere in each other’s freedom of worship.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:43:47pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

Jesus, people. Let's turn the debate down to eleven.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:46:11pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

Moreover, it would alter the political culture of the US greatly. Drop that many new states and that many additional voters into the mix and I don't know what the fallout would be.

So sorry, Floral, but that idea is a non-starter. Americans would not want it and Mexicans would not want it.

But then we could go on the amero! I mean, after we annexed Canada, too.

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:48:25pm

re: #212 ggt

Couldn't we just give them Texas?

"Guadalupe Hidaldgo? That was a JOKE. We pull that on all the new countries. You thought we were serious? Jeez. Here. Have Texas back. It's cool, man."

"Okay. What about California?"

239 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:49:40pm

Attila the Hun allowed members of his horde to follow whichever gods they wished, so long as they didn’t interfere in each other’s freedom of worship.

...so you see, mr attila, aethelric stole my spotless lamb...

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:50:40pm

re: #231 lostlakehiker

You know this?

Because Wikipedia's account suggests he may have not much liked Christians...

I don't think Attila cared much what your religion was. If you had nice shit, he'd kill you and take it.

241 Mr Pancakes  Wed, Sep 28, 2011 11:54:41pm

re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist

"Guadalupe Hidaldgo? That was a JOKE. We pull that on all the new countries. You thought we were serious? Jeez. Here. Have Texas back. It's cool, man."

"Okay. What about California?"

They already have California...... well Baja California anyway. Did you know that Baja Ca is as long as US Ca? Always wanted to make that trek but the roads at times can be iffy. Two lane highways most of the way and the shoulders are 2 feet deep in places. Catch your tire on one of those and you're upside down in the middle of nowhere.

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:01:43am

re: #241 Mr Pancakes

They already have California... well Baja California anyway. Did you know that Baja Ca is as long as US Ca? Always wanted to make that trek but the roads at times can be iffy. Two lane highways most of the way and the shoulders are 2 feet deep in places. Catch your tire on one of those and you're upside down in the middle of nowhere.

"You stole half our country. And to make matters worse, you stole the half with the paved roads."

243 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:07:44am

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

"You stole half our country. And to make matters worse, you stole the half with the paved roads."

Yea no kidding, as bad as the roads are (and they are not all bad) for a third world country, I'm sure they are much better in Mexico than in many places in the world. If you should ever drive a toll road down there, keep your toll ticket. They have a fleet of trucks driving the toll roads just to help drivers that are broken down..... Their services are free to either get you back motoring, or get you to a place that can fix you if it's beyond their capabilities.. They are called "The Green Angels" and they certainly are angels.

244 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:23:24am
245 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:24:02am

A friend of mine down there declared (tongue in cheek) that Mexico is actually more free than the US. I asked how so?
He said where in the US can you hand a cop $40 and be on your way after running a red light? He got me there...... no missed work, no ding on your insurance.

I ran a stop sign in Ensenada and got pulled over...... I went through the "how can we take care of this?" spiel to no avail...... had to follow him to the police station to see the judge. I lied and said I only had $19 on me and that's what I paid. My bosses son who was a cop gave me a get out of jail free card, but it only worked in Tijuana.

246 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:26:13am

Investigators check possible NPD contacts to Oslo killer Breivik

German investigators are checking possible links between the radical anti-Islamist who carried out the July massacre in Oslo and far-Right extremists in Bavaria, according to Der Spiegel magazine.

Suspicions of a potential connection were raised by Anders Behring Breivik’s email list, which Norwegian detectives investigating the massacre he carried out this summer, have passed on to their German colleagues, the magazine wrote on Sunday.

The Augsburg state security authorities had invited several far-Right extremists to interview in connection with the attack in Oslo of July 22.

[…]

Those Bavarians concerned included Roland Wuttke, chairman of the National Democratic Party (NPD) Upper Bavaria section. He denies all contact to Breivik, and wrote an open letter to the Augsburg police saying the invitation to interview was nothing more than propaganda. He said he would not attend as he had nothing to say.

He and 25 colleagues were investigated in 2009 for incitement, Der Spiegel reported.

[Link: www.thelocal.de...]

247 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:27:56am

Two men charged for Breivik 'tribute' attack

Two men arrested in Västerås on suspicion of attempted murder expressed support for Anders Behring Breivik's massacre in Norway prior to stabbing two men of non-Swedish origin.

Two men, aged 25 and 26, were charged in Västerås on Friday for attempted murder in connection with attacks on two men of south Asian origin at the end of July.

According to the prosecutor the case concerns a hate crime with the men targeting their victims due to their foreign origin.

Four days after the attacks in Oslo and Utøya which left 77 dead, a man sleeping on a bench in the town of Västerås was attacked. He was seriously injured and was relieved of his mobile phone.

Two days later another man, this time of Sri Lankan origin, was stabbed and seriously injured while completing his paper round.

According to the police report on the case, the accused, who deny the charges, expressed hatred of immigrants in the attack with one screaming "Go home" to the bleeding victim and then pausing to draw a swastika on the man's bag.

According to the Dagens Nyheter daily the police report details that one of the defendants sent the follow text message to the other shortly after Behring Brevik's terror attack on July 22nd:

"A Norwegian 'Nazi' has killed like, around 84! From the left who, like, cheered on Islam. HAHAHA!! WHITE POWER!"

The men were arrested shortly after the second attack.

A police inspection of computers seized in the defendants homes has revealed pictures of the men raising their arms in a Nazi-style salute in front of the Swedish flag.

Furthermore the men's internet history showed that they spent time immediately prior to the attack in the early hours of July 28th visiting a racist YouTube channel.

[Link: www.thelocal.se...]

248 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:38:05am

Swiss parliament approves nuclear plant phase out

The Swiss parliament on Wednesday voted to phase out the country's nuclear plants, about six months after the Fukushima accident in Japan.

Switzerland's upper chamber on Wednesday voted for government proposals to halt nuclear stations by 2034, in line with the lower house which had approved the proposal on June 8.

[Link: www.google.com...]

249 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:53:07am

Al Qaeda copies The Onion:

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

250 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 12:53:24am

re: #246 000G

Investigators check possible NPD contacts to Oslo killer Breivik

re: #247 000G

Two men charged for Breivik 'tribute' attack

[Link: www.thelocal.se...]

[Link: www.thelocal.de...]

Delightful. /

251 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:05:14am

re: #250 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #247 000G

Delightful. /

Hey Crush..... long time no see, I hope you are doing well.

I forget what you call it but here's one of those 80's keyboard videos for you.

Goodnight all.

252 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:19:44am
253 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:57:50am

Morning Honcos.

254 researchok  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:13:34am

Morning, all

255 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:17:28am

Tea Party conservative blocks pipeline safety bill

Tea Party conservative Sen. Rand Paul is blocking pipeline safety legislation intended to fix some of the problems that led to the rupture of a natural gas pipeline in San Bruno last year that destroyed a neighborhood and killed eight people.

Paul, a first-term Kentucky Republican whose father, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Tex. is running for president, is using his prerogative as a senator to stymie action because he is opposed in principle to adding regulations and expanding the federal government.

"Sen. Paul doesn't think new regulations and the creation of dozens of bureaucratic positions should be swept through without sufficient debate and vote," said his spokeswoman, Moira Bagley.

Paul has used his Senate privileges to put a hold on the Pipeline Transportation Safety Improvement Act of 2011, which blocks further action on the bill despite nearly unanimous bipartisan support in Congress for toughening federal regulations.

[...]

A gas pipeline exploded in Paul's home state of Kentucky last week.

[...]

The legislation passed the Senate Commerce Committee unanimously in May. Given the bill's broad support, Senate Democrats had "hot-lined" it, asking each party's caucus if anyone objected, so that it could be passed quickly by unanimous consent.

The venal myopia of the opthamologist from KY is a sign of how bad politics and governance is becoming under the current revanche mindset.

256 researchok  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:21:06am

re: #255 freetoken

Paul, a first-term Kentucky Republican whose father, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Tex. is running for president, is using his prerogative as a senator to stymie action because he is opposed in principle to adding regulations and expanding the federal government.

I want to go on the record as being opposed in principle to people being blown to smithereens.

257 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:30:00am

I said Yahtzee, bitch!!!
[Link: www.abcactionnews.com...]

258 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:46:41am

Heh. Dumb asses.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

259 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:15:20am

Morning folks!

260 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:24:12am

re: #259 RogueOne

Morning folks!

folks??
Folks!!?

Is that all we are to you,,, after all we've been through!!
FOLKS!!

261 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:24:59am

re: #257 Cannadian Club Akbar

I said Yahtzee, bitch!!!
[Link: www.abcactionnews.com...]

Never heard of full contact Yahtzee!?!?

262 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:25:54am

re: #260 sattv4u2

Ahem...
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

263 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:28:38am

re: #262 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ahem...
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

shaddupppp

264 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:30:28am

re: #260 sattv4u2

folks??
Folks!!?

Is that all we are to you,,, after all we've been through!!
FOLKS!!

I was going to go with "you people" but didn't want to deal with the whining this early in the a.m... The good news is I'm taking the rest of the week off so I'll be likely to annoy any second now.

265 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:31:28am

re: #263 sattv4u2

shadduppp

Ahem.
[Link: www.cleveland.com...]

266 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:31:30am

re: #262 Cannadian Club Akbar

re: #263 sattv4u2

The Morning Joe crew have been crying about the games last night for the entire show so far

267 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:32:43am

re: #266 RogueOne

re: #263 sattv4u2

The Morning Joe crew have been crying about the games last night for the entire show so far

I'll send them a box of tampons.

268 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:34:04am

re: #266 RogueOne

re: #263 sattv4u2

The Morning Joe crew have been crying about the games last night for the entire show so far

What are they crying about?

good drama,,, exciting games (two out of the four went to extra innings, and a third was decided in the bottom of the ninth)

Only the Cardinals game held no drama

269 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:35:05am

I saw a comment on Huffpo, I think, where someone said baseball took 168 games to figure out the playoffs. Obviously a genius. Heh.

270 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:35:12am

re: #265 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ahem.
[Link: www.cleveland.com...]

You do realize that the Bruins are Stanley Cup Champs, right!?!?

271 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:35:37am

re: #255 freetoken

Tea Party conservative blocks pipeline safety bill

The venal myopia of the opthamologist from KY is a sign of how bad politics and governance is becoming under the current revanche mindset.

Rushing through laws after a disaster or a tragedy is almost always a bad idea. (For instance, just about every law named after a dead person) If it's a good law then Rand is right, bring it up for debate and prove it.

Paul's spokeswoman said that if Senate majority leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., wants to overcome Paul's objection, he can "bring this legislation before the Senate at any time."

Reid's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

272 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:35:38am

re: #270 sattv4u2

You do realize that the Bruins are Stanley Cup Champs, right!?!?

Yes I do.

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:38:16am

re: #270 sattv4u2

You do realize that the Bruins are Stanley Cup Champs, right!?!?

Also remember, the Lightning weren't supposed to even be in the playoffs last year, let alone the Eastern Conference Finals. And, IIRC, the Rays were picked to finish 4th in their division. So there's that...

274 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:38:45am

re: #268 sattv4u2

What are they crying about?

good drama,,, exciting games (two out of the four went to extra innings, and a third was decided in the bottom of the ninth)

Only the Cardinals game held no drama

They're all boston fans. They did mention the same thing you brought up, great games and a great finish for baseball, but they're all depressed.

275 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:39:34am

re: #274 RogueOne

They're all boston fans. They did mention the same thing you brought up, great games and a great finish for baseball, but they're all depressed.

Oh,, didn't know that

Thanks

276 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:00:35am

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Feds: Mass. man planned to blow up US buildings

Rezwan Ferdaus, 26, was arrested in Framingham after undercover federal agents delivered materials he had allegedly requested, including grenades, six machine guns and what he believed was 24 pounds of C-4 explosive

",, delivered materials he had allegedly requested,,,'

Requested from where !?!?!?

277 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:01:02am

Anyone watch O'Reilly on The Daily Show last night? I tried but I can't watch O'Reilly for more than 5 minutes at a time or I get chest pains.

278 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:01:18am

Al Qaeda to Dinnerjacket: STFU, you're harshing our buzz!!
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

279 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:02:15am

re: #277 RogueOne

Anyone watch O'Reilly on The Daily Show last night? I tried but I can't watch O'Reilly for more than 5 minutes at a time or I get chest pains.

I was too busy biting chunks out of my pillow watching the Red Sox's last game of the year

:(

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:03:24am

re: #279 sattv4u2

I was too busy biting chunks out of my pillow watching the Red Sox's last game of the year

:(

Good thing you weren't holding the dog.
/

281 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:04:40am

"Islam scholar Robert Spencer"

Did they also quote the "Judaism scholar Israel Shahak"?

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:09:56am

re: #39 OhNoZombies!

Hi Lizards!
Ok, now, back to my squishy little shell...

Classy nick.

284 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:19:17am

re: #283 Sergey Romanov

Failure to load.

285 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:19:44am

COCKLE DOODLE DOO!

286 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:21:42am

Valle was convicted in 1978 of murdering Officer Louis Pena, who had pulled Valle over for running a red light. Valle, then 27 years old and driving a stolen Camaro, shot 41-year-old Pena in the neck and backup Officer Gary Spell in the back before fleeing. He was caught two days later.

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

287 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:23:42am

re: #286 Cannadian Club Akbar

30 years from conviction to needle. Were they hoping he'd die of old age before they got to him?

288 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:25:01am

re: #284 Obdicut

dunno, works for me

289 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:27:23am

re: #287 RogueOne

30 years from conviction to needle. Were they hoping he'd die of old age before they got to him?

Not sure. I did see some protesters at a local church, though. Could barely read their signs. I should donate some crayons or markers of something.

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:28:59am

re: #289 Cannadian Club Akbar

Of=or, pimf.

291 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:29:22am

Ralph Nader ♥'s Ron Paul:

Ralph Nader’s Grand Alliance
[Link: www.theamericanconservative.com...]

It’s no secret that Ralph Nader has held the Democratic Party establishment in low regard for decades now: the marginally more palatable alternative in an ugly duopoly, he claims, is still quite ugly. But lately Nader’s disdain has reached a new high. “It’s gotten so bad,” he tells me, “that you can actually say a Republican president—with a Democratic Senate—would produce less bad results than the present situation. That’s how bollixed stuff has gone.”
.....
So I had to ask: how could he profess hope in Ron Paul, who almost certainly would have opposed the very regulations on which Nader built his career?

“Look at the latitude,” Nader says, referring to the potential for cooperation between libertarians and the left. “Military budget, foreign wars, empire, Patriot Act, corporate welfare—for starters. When you add those all up, that’s a foundational convergence. Progressives should do so good.”

I thought I’d bring up the subject of Ron Paul with Nader after seeing the two jointly interviewed on Fox Business Channel in January. Nader had caught me off guard when he identified an emergent left-libertarian alliance as “today’s most exciting new political dynamic.” It was easy to foresee objections that the left might raise: if progressives are in favor of expanding the welfare state, how well can they really get along with folks who go around quoting the likes of Hayek and Rothbard?

“That’s strategic sabotage,” Nader responds, sharply. “It’s an intellectual indulgence. … If they’re on your side, and you don’t compromise your positions, what do you care who they quote? Franklin Delano Roosevelt sided with Stalin against Hitler. Not to draw that analogy, I’m just saying—why did he side with Stalin? Because Stalin went along with everything FDR wanted.”

292 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:32:04am

re: #291 RogueOne

I've said Paul/Nader 2012 more than once. First as a joke, but it could really have an impact on the election if they were to team up.

293 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:35:39am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've said Paul/Nader 2012 more than once. First as a joke, but it could really have an impact on the election if they were to team up.

gah

294 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:06am

re: #293 Sergey Romanov

gah

Hey, Perot got almost 19% of the vote in 1992 and 8.4% in 1996. (popular not electoral college, obviously) But those votes could have gone elsewhere.

295 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:09am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

A team like that could drain a solid 3% of the vote away from teams red and blue. Mass chaos!////

296 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:49am

re: #295 RogueOne

A team like that could drain a solid 3% of the vote away from teams red and blue. Mass chaos!///

I would think more like 10%, honestly.

297 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:54am

re: #294 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey, Perot got almost 19% of the vote in 1992 and 8.4% in 1996. (popular not electoral college, obviously) But those votes could have gone elsewhere.

True but Nader and Paul are known quantities. Their support is already maxed out.

298 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:40:54am

Oh, BTW, SNL parodies of Perot were effing AWESOME!!!

299 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:43:13am

I can't find any updates to see if they actually shipped her out:

Deportation would force 19-year-old and mom to leave 'everything I know', including dad and siblings
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

She's a 19yr old college junior who has lived here since she was 20 months old. If we can't make exceptions for someone like her then what is the point of ICE except to deport every non-citizen?

300 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:44:53am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would think more like 10%, honestly.

If they run we'll have to do an over/under bet. I say we set it at 7% and I bet the under.

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:46:14am

re: #300 RogueOne

If they run we'll have to do an over/under bet. I say we set it at 7% and I bet the under.

Deal.

302 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:48:42am

re: #299 RogueOne

I'm not understanding how the wifey isn't a citizen. Unless I missed something. I have 2 nephews born in Canada and they have dual citizenship. (my niece of the same family was born in the US)

303 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:49:16am

Was Mo Rocca dropped on his head as a child?

304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:49:29am

re: #286 Cannadian Club Akbar

Give him a segagive.

305 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:49:44am

I don't think Nader is hot anymore. Ron Paul's tag-team buddy from the loony left these days is more often Dennis Kucinich.

306 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:50:29am

re: #299 RogueOne

I can't find any updates to see if they actually shipped her out:

Deportation would force 19-year-old and mom to leave 'everything I know', including dad and siblings
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

She's a 19yr old college junior who has lived here since she was 20 months old. If we can't make exceptions for someone like her then what is the point of ICE except to deport every non-citizen?

There are many who nonetheless maintain that the law is the law, illegal is illegal and they should all be deported, period.

This mess can only be solved by a package of comprehensive reform, and there is just not enough consensus or will to put that through.

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:51:44am

re: #303 Obdicut

Why? What'd he do?

308 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:52:24am

re: #306 ralphieboy

There are many who nonetheless maintain that the law is the law, illegal is illegal and they should all be deported, period.

This mess can only be solved by a package of comprehensive reform, and there is just not enough consensus or will to put that through.

Ironically, that is the one area where Perry has it right over his competitors and he's taking a beating for it.

309 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:53:01am

re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He just made like five insanely dumb jokes in a row. Like, fifteen year olds would find the jokes rather obvious.

My wife has started to listen to NPR in the morning. I don't actually like NPR.

310 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:53:11am

Ugh, Google News refuses to let me switch between languages when I am logged in.

311 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:54:25am

re: #306 ralphieboy

There are many who nonetheless maintain that the law is the law, illegal is illegal and they should all be deported, period.

This mess can only be solved by a package of comprehensive reform, and there is just not enough consensus or will to put that through.

The ones saying that should have to prove their own citizenship. I wonder what many of them would say if the same demands were applied to their grandparents.

312 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:54:36am

re: #309 Obdicut

My wife has started to listen to NPR in the morning. I don't actually like NPR.

Is Christopher Lydon the reason?

313 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:55:40am

re: #309 Obdicut

Good times.

Mo's made me wince chuckle a few times; but he's terminally un-funny to me. One of the less talented of the Daily Show finds.

He's the Daily Show's "Dan Aykroyd". Wholly un-funny but famous.

314 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:55:52am

re: #281 Sergey Romanov

"Islam scholar Robert Spencer"

Did they also quote the "Judaism scholar Israel Shahak"?

Ugh, that guy...

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:58:12am

re: #311 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The ones saying that should have to prove their own citizenship. I wonder what many of them would say if the same demands were applied to their grandparents.

So, you want to see their papers?

316 dell*nix  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:58:20am

Iris Dement:Let the mystery be.

317 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:09:16am

re: #315 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, you want to see their papers?

I don't care about their papers/pedigrees one way or the other, tbh. That's their anxiety, let them apply it to themselves for once.

318 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:10:07am

Own emphasis:

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Men in Saudi Arabia cast ballots Thursday in local elections, the second-ever nationwide vote in the oil-rich kingdom. Women don't have the right to vote this time around, but will be able [are expected to be able] to do so in 2015.

The election for local councils illustrated the slow, limited steps that the ultraconservative kingdom, a staunch U.S. ally, is taking in allowing some popular voice in its government. The councils are one of the few elected bodies in the country but have no real power, mandated to offer advice to provincial authorities.

Saudi Arabia does not have a parliament. Instead, it has a Shura Council, an assembly appointed by the king with a similar mandate to advise, but not legislate.

On Sunday, King Abdullah — who is seen as a relative reformer [lol] — decreed that women would be allowed to vote in the next local elections, scheduled for 2015. He also said women will be appointed to the all-male Shura Council.

[…]

Abdullah, seeking to insulate his nation against the anti-regime uprisings sweeping other Arab nations, announced earlier this year a $93 billion package of jobs, incentives and services for Saudis.

[…]

It was a significant step forward for Saudi women [lol]. But women continue to bear the brunt of their nation's deeply conservative values. They are unable to serve as Cabinet ministers, drive or travel abroad without permission from a male guardian. They are often targeted by the kingdom's intrusive religious police, who enforce a rigid interpretation of Islamic Shariah law on the streets and public places like shopping malls and university campuses. Many proponents of women's rights questioned why they had to wait four years to vote.

[Link: www.google.com...]

319 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:12:55am

re: #277 RogueOne

Anyone watch O'Reilly on The Daily Show last night? I tried but I can't watch O'Reilly for more than 5 minutes at a time or I get chest pains.

He seemed kind of reasonable to me up to the point when he advocated the flat tax.

320 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:14:03am

re: #319 000G

He seemed kind of reasonable to me up to the point when he advocated the flat tax.

His delivery makes me want to reach through the tv and choke the life out of him, rhetorically of course.

321 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:16:33am

re: #320 RogueOne

I appreciate his arrogance as long as he can back it up with actual knowledge and argumentative points. When he's all vapid, he just comes across as proud to be ignorant. If you haven't earned your arrogance, chances are you are coming off unseemly.

322 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:17:24am

re: #320 RogueOne

His delivery makes me want to reach through the tv and choke the life out of him, rhetorically of course.

I'll score us some tickets.
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

323 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:27:28am

OK. If this works I expect to see it brought up in every DUI defense.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...]

324 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:32:04am

re: #323 Cannadian Club Akbar

OK. If this works I expect to see it brought up in every DUI defense.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...]

Wouldn't it be easier to just not drink?

325 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:32:48am

re: #324 RogueOne

Wouldn't it be easier to just not drink?

That's what I was thinking.

326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:33:38am

re: #323 Cannadian Club Akbar
I drinks for the buzz, not for the taste.

327 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:34:58am

Be careful in DC if mother nature calls...

Toilet explodes at GSA building, injuring at least one employee

After a toilet exploded at a General Services Administration building, sending a female employee to the hospital with serious injuries, the bathrooms were declared off limits.

So was any information about Monday’s mishap at 7th and D streets Southwest, the GSA’s headquarters for the capital region.

An internal memo issued to building employees warned them not to even attempt to go to the bathroom at work.

“DO NOT flush toilets or use any domestic water,” read the memo, first reported by WUSA News Channel 9. “Due to a mechanical failure, there is high air pressure in the domestic water system that resulted in damage to toilets.”

GSA spokesman William Marshall Jr. issued a statement Monday night describing a “building mechanical incident” that injured at least one employee.

328 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:36:12am

re: #326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I drinks for the buzz, not for the taste.

I like Rum Runners for both. But with a 151 floater.

329 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:36:20am

Speaking of HuffPo:

Why Americans Still Support The Death Penalty
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

It has long been the conventional wisdom on both sides of the death penalty debate that if a state or the federal government were ever shown to have executed an innocent person, we'd see a dramatic drop in support for state executions. In the 2006 case Kansas v. Marsh, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, a death penalty supporter, called the search for a wrongly executed person the "Holy Grail" of death penalty opponents.

But a little less than two years after David Grann made a convincing argument in The New Yorker that the state of Texas had done just that, public support for capital punishment hasn't wavered. In October 2009, Grann wrote about Cameron Todd Willingham, executed in 2004 for setting the fire that killed his three young children. Willingham was convicted because of forensic testimony from fire officials that arson experts call junk science.

Grann's story was widely discussed and distributed, but the predicted sea change in public perceptions of the death penalty didn't happen. According to Gallup polling, support for the death penalty dropped just a point between 2009 and 2010, from 65 percent to 64 percent, well within the margin for error. And about half the country still believes the death penalty isn't used often enough.

330 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:41:18am

re: #326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've actually found that if I drink, the next morning I have trouble writing. So during times when I'm writing, I'm going to be a teetotaler.

For years i thought I'd write better, like so many writers, if I tanked up and embraced the drunken writer profile.

Turns out to be the exact opposite for me.

331 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:44:03am

re: #330 Obdicut

I've actually found that if I drink, the next morning I have trouble writing. So during times when I'm writing, I'm going to be a teetotaler.

For years i thought I'd write better, like so many writers, if I tanked up and embraced the drunken writer profile.

Turns out to be the exact opposite for me.

I went to a Halloween party one year, last minute. I put on a robe, boxer shorts, tee shirt, flip flops, rolled up a script and put it in one of the pockets with a pint in the other and wore my glasses down to the tip of my nose. "Out of work writer". :)

332 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:45:12am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

What would it have looked like if it was an employed writer?

333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:45:17am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

I went to a Halloween party one year, last minute. I put on a robe, boxer shorts, tee shirt, flip flops, rolled up a script and put it in one of the pockets with a pint in the other and wore my glasses down to the tip of my nose. "Out of work writer". :)

Could've called yourself a "Working writer".

334 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:46:12am

"Statist!"
"Anarchist!"
Smack-down!

335 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:47:18am

re: #332 Obdicut

What would it have looked like if it was an employed writer?

Hemingway.

336 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:48:04am

re: #335 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hemingway.

Wake up, write, fish, drink. Rinse, repeat.

337 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:48:45am

re: #334 000G

Smack-down!

Smack down? That will make your breasts bigger!

Breast Slapping: Bigger Breasts Or Bust!

For those women who may seek breast augmentation but would rather not undergo surgery, there is an alternative in the form of a new craze that is slapping its way silly across Thailand.

The government of Thailand is promoting the controversial technique known as “breast- slapping” which involves kneading, massaging and hitting breasts as well as the buttocks in order to firm the rear.

One beauty shop in Bangkok has been licensed to perform the non-surgical treatment and owner, Khemmikka Na Songkhla, better known as Khunying Tobnom, claims that proper application of the technique, which involves six ten-minute sessions, can be painful but effectively boost breast size by up to two inches.

338 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:56:04am

re: #334 000G

"Statist!"
"Anarchist!"
Smack-down!

We were having a nice polite conversation and now you've probably ruined it.///

339 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:57:44am

I'm just glad it's not me. I was having nice, politice conversations with Obdicut, Sergey, OhCrap and reine the last couple of days. All that niceness makes me tired.

:-)

340 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:00:45am

Semi-related article to the argument:


NHGRI Grantees Study Returning Genomic Research Results to Participants
[Link: www.genomeweb.com...]

One large ethical issue looming over genomics research concerns whether scientists should let participants know about disease risks and other information found in their genomes, and the National Human Genome Research Institute today said it has provided several new awards to researchers to zero in on this question.

NHGRI has awarded $5.7 million to seven researchers who will ask a range of questions about returning genomic study results and will generate data that can guide policymaker. They also will form a consortium that will review these issues.

The core questions in this area concern whether scientists should provide participants information about their risks for diseases or conditions that were discovered while their genomes were being analyzed for research purposes.

"Should people be told about their disease risks?". Isn't that an easy answer?

341 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:02:53am

re: #340 RogueOne

Semi-related article to the argument:

NHGRI Grantees Study Returning Genomic Research Results to Participants
[Link: www.genomeweb.com...]

"Should people be told about their disease risks?". Isn't that an easy answer?

The people can find out after the results are sold to their insurance company.

342 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:04:33am

re: #341 Cannadian Club Akbar

The people can find out after the results are sold to their insurance company.

This would be a moot point if we had single-payer....

343 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:04:48am

re: #341 Cannadian Club Akbar

That won't happen. If you can't trust the government to keep your information private who can you trust?

344 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:06:42am

re: #334 000G

"Statist!"
"Anarchist!"
Smack-down!

Hee hee. Statist is about the weakest insult I can imagine.

"You think that there's a role for government in solving problems!"

Oh noes.

345 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:11:48am

Morning all!

Big Plans today anyone?

346 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:13:34am

re: #345 ggt

I'm going to write 5000 words. Or maybe 10000. An option on 15000.

Fuck it, maybe I'll just finish the novel off today. I'm not doing anything tonight.

347 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:14:45am

Bahrain sentences medics who treated protesters

A court in Bahrain has jailed 20 medics who treated protesters to up to 15 years, after convicting them of incitement to overthrow the regime.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]


Four Bahrain protesters sentenced to death

A court in Bahrain has convicted four demonstrators and sentenced them to death over the killing of two police officers during pro-democracy protests

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

348 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:15:38am

re: #347 000G

BTW, this is the regime that got direct military back-up during the protests from their buddy Saudi Arabia.

349 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:18:18am

re: #346 Obdicut

I'm going to write 5000 words. Or maybe 10000. An option on 15000.

Fuck it, maybe I'll just finish the novel off today. I'm not doing anything tonight.

Well, 15000 words may turn your day into a night . . .

350 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:18:44am

'We have eight Security Council votes': Palestinians

RAMALLAH, Palestinian Territories — The Palestinians have secured eight Security Council yes votes for their UN membership bid, just one short of the nine they need, the Palestinian foreign minister said on Thursday.

Speaking to reporters in Ramallah, Riyad al-Malki said he had received assurances from two additional nations -- Nigeria and Gabon -- that they would vote in favour of the Palestinian bid for full state membership at the UN.

"We have eight states that will vote for Palestine in the Security Council," he said. "We are working hard to have a ninth and a tenth."

Malki said the Palestinians have assurances of "yes" votes from Lebanon, Russia, China, India, South Africa and Brazil, in addition to the new confirmations from Nigeria and Gabon.

"We are working on Bosnia, Colombia and Portugal," he added, saying he was scheduled to visit Bosnia shortly, and Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas will make stops in Colombia, Portugal, Honduras and the Dominican Republic in October.

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:19:13am

re: #348 000G

BTW, this is the regime that got direct military back-up during the protests from their buddy Saudi Arabia.

Isn't it also the country that took in Michael Jackson for a time? no extradition?

352 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:20:29am

The rain is coming down, it's windy, the colorful leaves are falling, the temperature is cool, and football season has begun. Fall is here :)

353 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:21:14am

re: #349 ggt

Nah, I'm writing at about 50 WPM. So 15000 words is 'only' five hours.

We'll see how things go. I just want to approach it every day as though I might finish it.

354 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:22:14am

re: #344 Obdicut

Did you see this article? The Me generation may be the problem...

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Paged.

355 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:27:52am

re: #354 Rightwingconspirator

Did you see this article? The Me generation may be the problem...

[Link: www.cnn.com...] roken-government/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Paged.

I think time may be the answer. People don't wanna change.

356 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:29:14am

re: #353 Obdicut

You certainly have the writing "bug". Good for you. I just do not have that.

357 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:29:54am

re: #353 Obdicut

Nah, I'm writing at about 50 WPM. So 15000 words is 'only' five hours.

We'll see how things go. I just want to approach it every day as though I might finish it.

It's the editing. I swear, even when I write a short story, it seems 3/4 of the time is spent editing, rereading and more editing--fact checking . . .etc.

358 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:32:34am

What can't more government involvement accomplish?

Survey: Health Insurance Premiums Jumped 8-9% in 2011, vs. 3-5% in 2010
[Link: www.forbes.com...]

Today, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the American Hospital Association’s Health Research and Educational Trust released their annual Employer Health Benefits survey, which showed that insurance premiums spiked 7.5 percent for single coverage, and 9.5 percent for family coverage, in 2011. This compares to increases of 4.7 percent and 3.0 percent, respectively, in 2010.

While Candidate Obama promised at least 20 times that his plan would “bring premiums down by $2,500 for the typical family,” President Obama has presided over a $2,393 increase in premiums for the typical family. The spike in rates is striking, given that utilization of health care services is down, due to the poor economy, which in theory should lead to a slowdown in premium growth.

Seriously, how could we ever have seen this coming? We were told over and over that the costs would drop and if you can't believe a bureaucrat who can you believe?

359 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:33:07am

re: #354 Rightwingconspirator

Did you see this article? The Me generation may be the problem...

[Link: www.cnn.com...] roken-government/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Paged.

The "blame it on Baby Boomers" argument has to be one of the most petty arguments around.

360 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:34:25am

re: #359 Gus 802

The "blame it on Baby Boomers" argument has to be one of the most petty arguments around.

Nah, it's your fault Gus.

:)

361 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:36:13am

re: #359 Gus 802

They have a point given the mindset. For some, that article will sting a bit. The boomer generation, like any other could use the review and some introspection as it ages to leadership.

362 lizardofid  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:39:19am

On the subject of the boomer's place/responsibility in all this, does anyone have a take on the book, "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss and Howe?

363 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:40:27am

re: #358 RogueOne

What did health insurance costs do in the 20 years previous to that, Rogue?

364 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:41:41am

re: #361 Rightwingconspirator

They have a point given the mindset. For some, that article will sting a bit. The boomer generation, like any other could use the review and some introspection as it ages to leadership.

I don't see it. And from my observation already the Millennial could use a heavy does of introspection themselves. They could start by stop walking around the street walking their dogs with their iPhone glued in front of their faces. But that's besides the point. People no longer think in generational terms. The two authors themselves are "boomers" and are clearly trying to sell their rhetoric to the Millennials. So this will appeal to said group since all human being tend to have daddy issues. It has nothing to do with either group or generation. So if it's the "boomers fault" that's like saying the generations before that were on the right track. Like where? Tammany Hall and Jim Crow laws that were NOT the product of boomers?

365 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:42:18am

IMHO, health care costs and all other costs have a lot to do with emotion and uncertainty.

everyone is trying to get what they can while they can.

Maybe not so different than any other time in history.

366 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:43:29am

re: #364 Gus 802

I don't see it. And from my observation already the Millennial could use a heavy does of introspection themselves. They could start by stop walking around the street walking their dogs with their iPhone glued in front of their faces. But that's besides the point. People no longer think in generational terms. The two authors themselves are "boomers" and are clearly trying to sell their rhetoric to the Millennials. So this will appeal to said group since all human being tend to have daddy issues. It has nothing to do with either group or generation. So if it's the "boomers fault" that's like saying the generations before that were on the right track. Like where? Tammany Hall and Jim Crow laws that were NOT the product of boomers.

It's the same old rhetorical crap in a different coat of paint. The previous "age" was always either Golden or Mud. We've ruined it, or the previous group did and we're picking up the pieces.

367 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:43:43am

re: #364 Gus 802

Heh. The boomer's attitudes are the current problem. The attitudes of the previous generations were the problems at that time. And so it goes. It just happens the boomer's attitudes really seem to be exactly the inverse of what we need right now.

I never remember what generation I'm supposed to be.

368 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:44:54am

re: #364 Gus 802

I don't see it. And from my observation already the Millennial could use a heavy does of introspection themselves. They could start by stop walking around the street walking their dogs with their iPhone glued in front of their faces. But that's besides the point. People no longer think in generational terms. The two authors themselves are "boomers" and are clearly trying to sell their rhetoric to the Millennials. So this will appeal to said group since all human being tend to have daddy issues. It has nothing to do with either group or generation. So if it's the "boomers fault" that's like saying the generations before that were on the right track. Like where? Tammany Hall and Jim Crow laws that were NOT the product of boomers.

The article reminded me of a couple of my boomer friends who are emotionally still in 1972. Their particular "issue" whether it be women's rights, worker rights, whatever is still THE issue in their minds. Nothing will get better until . . . ..

I wanna say sometimes, "you know, you are a grandma now --can you maybe, just maybe see that the world has changed and your grandchildren will/do not have the same perspective you had."

369 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:45:45am

re: #367 Obdicut

Heh. The boomer's attitudes are the current problem. The attitudes of the previous generations were the problems at that time. And so it goes. It just happens the boomer's attitudes really seem to be exactly the inverse of what we need right now.

I never remember what generation I'm supposed to be.

aged and wise (as opposed to young and inexperienced)

:0

370 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:46:32am

re: #367 Obdicut

The important thing to keep in mind is that it's always the attitude that's the problem.

///

371 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:48:56am

re: #370 000G

The important thing to keep in mind is that it's always the attitude that's the problem.

///

It can be a good place to start looking.

372 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:49:42am

re: #363 Obdicut

What did health insurance costs do in the 20 years previous to that, Rogue?

They rose just not as high of a percentage. If you think this is an aberration wait until next year when "price controls" go into effect.

I'm not sure why you're mad at me, I'm not the one who argued that HCR would lower costs. We were told they'd drop by $2500 and instead they've risen $2500. Did someone lie or where they just wrong?

373 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:50:57am

re: #367 Obdicut

Heh. The boomer's attitudes are the current problem. The attitudes of the previous generations were the problems at that time. And so it goes. It just happens the boomer's attitudes really seem to be exactly the inverse of what we need right now.

I never remember what generation I'm supposed to be.

Yes. If one wants to take that route. Doing this however is lumping everyone that was born between 1946 and 1964. I happen to fall within the very end of that range. Anyway, it's not a matter of generations IMO since most hipsters have a lot in common regardless of generation. And we are talking the hip since that's what "Millennials" connotes. It's about an American mindset that's handed down through generations that's the problem. It's about greed and profit margins. I know through personal experience that Millennials are perfectly willing to see an apartment building get converted into a Millennial nirvana and watch the previous renters get evicted and pay double or more for the rent in order to play Wii or sip their latte while checking their text messages in the morning.

374 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:51:54am

re: #373 Gus 802

Yes. If one wants to take that route. Doing this however is lumping everyone that was born between 1946 and 1964. I happen to fall within the very end of that range. Anyway, it's not a matter of generations IMO since most hipsters have a lot in common regardless of generation. And we are talking the hip since that's what "Millennials" connotes. It's about an American mindset that's handed down through generations that's the problem. It's about greed and profit margins. I know through personal experience that Millennials are perfectly willing to see an apartment building get converted into a Millennial nirvana and watch the previous renters get evicted and pay doube or more for the rent in order to play Wii or sip their latte while checking their text messages in the morning.

What is your issue with Latte's and smart phones?

I do both and I'm born in 1964.

375 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:52:46am

re: #370 000G

I'd say it's the behavior that that attitude inspires, really, more than just the attitude.

I do kind of feel that even when I was young, we were kind of being promised that our resources would never run out. I think a lot of people are kind of just annoyed and unwilling to face the fact that we can't just step on an automatic treadmill of scientific and technological advancement that will carry us to better and better lifestyles.

We can't do anything that isn't sustainable. That's the reality. We have to stop being wasteful idiots. That doesn't mean quality of life has to decline, but it does mean we have to do hard, hard work on changing things.

Both among my generation-- who seem just as materialistic and consumed by materialism as the previous generations, despite knowing the costs and the risks-- and the older generations, there seems to be a great inertia against performing this work.

376 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:53:14am

re: #373 Gus 802

Gus, you may be reinforcing the point they made about moral superiority there. Sorry if I touched a nerve.

377 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:53:17am

re: #374 ggt

What is your issue with Latte's and smart phones?

I do both and I'm born in 1964.

That's why I said, "...it's not a matter of generations IMO since most hipsters have a lot in common regardless of generation..." Hipsters or whatever people want to call it. Target demographics.

378 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:53:32am

re: #373 Gus 802

Yes. If one wants to take that route. Doing this however is lumping everyone that was born between 1946 and 1964. I happen to fall within the very end of that range. Anyway, it's not a matter of generations IMO since most hipsters have a lot in common regardless of generation. And we are talking the hip since that's what "Millennials" connotes. It's about an American mindset that's handed down through generations that's the problem. It's about greed and profit margins. I know through personal experience that Millennials are perfectly willing to see an apartment building get converted into a Millennial nirvana and watch the previous renters get evicted and pay doube or more for the rent in order to play Wii or sip their latte while checking their text messages in the morning.

And how is that different from Boomers doing the same with brownstones twenty years ago, or whomever twenty years before that, and so on?

379 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:53:56am

re: #376 Rightwingconspirator

Gus, you may be reinforcing the point they made about moral superiority there. Sorry if I touched a nerve.

Oh brother. That's pretty lame. Touched a nerve?

380 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:54:26am

re: #375 Obdicut

I'd say it's the behavior that that attitude inspires, really, more than just the attitude.

Heh. My statement was just a cheap jab against a common conservative sentiment – and it was actually made coming from a materialist perspective.

381 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:55:14am

re: #373 Gus 802

It's about greed and profit margins. I know through personal experience that Millennials are perfectly willing to see an apartment building get converted into a Millennial nirvana and watch the previous renters get evicted and pay double or more for the rent in order to play Wii or sip their latte while checking their text messages in the morning.

Yeah. I mean, I lived in SF when the dotcomm assholes tried to destroy the Mission and were barely held at bay by the old hippies and progressives and Latino leaders. Even so, a lot of the mission got whomped.

And these guys are my age. They're mostly liberal. And they're equally as short-sighted, or NIMBYish, or whatever you want to call it.

Heh. Maybe it'll take another depression-era generation-- the one that's maturing right now-- to smarten us up as a country.

382 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:56:23am

re: #381 Obdicut

Yeah. I mean, I lived in SF when the dotcomm assholes tried to destroy the Mission and were barely held at bay by the old hippies and progressives and Latino leaders. Even so, a lot of the mission got whomped.

And these guys are my age. They're mostly liberal. And they're equally as short-sighted, or NIMBYish, or whatever you want to call it.

Heh. Maybe it'll take another depression-era generation-- the one that's maturing right now-- to smarten us up as a country.

I see a lot fewer people wanting to Keep Up With the Jones's. People seem more concerned with keeping afloat and getting their kids thru school.

383 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:58:12am

re: #379 Gus 802

Oh brother. That's pretty lame. Touched a nerve?

Sorry. It's a term most boomers would understand. BTW, I am of that generation. Born 1960. Late boomer I guess.

384 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:59:37am

re: #373 Gus 802

It's about greed and profit margins.

How do you define greed?

385 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:00:52am

Took dogs outside. Monster Puppy just raised his leg on my chives.

Guess I'll be buying them at the store for the rest of the year.

I have to start my day.

Have a great one all.

386 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:02:07am

re: #379 Gus 802

Oh brother. That's pretty lame. Touched a nerve?

Would you prefer he touch something else?//

387 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:03:15am

re: #382 ggt

I see a lot fewer people wanting to Keep Up With the Jones's. People seem more concerned with keeping afloat and getting their kids thru school.

That's true, except that people I think are now craving items for their percieved value more than other; the iphone, the ipad, the i-everything-- they're fine products, they really are, they're nifty and they're neat, but they're so ancillary to life but they've become extremely central to a lot of people.

Retail technology, ordinary-people consumer technology is advancing very quickly, but what we need is clean energy technology and sustainable tech.

388 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:03:41am

This is being reported by The Telegraph and Fox news.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

389 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:03:42am

Look! A tree!

390 RogueOne  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:03:49am

I better get moving too. I have things I need to accomplish. It's been fun people!

391 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:04:17am

Amarok is a ressource hog and Clementine crashes when forwarding to the next track...

urgh

392 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:04:46am

Mornin' fellow boomers...1964 IN DA HOUZE FO SHIZZLE! (we boomers say that, you know...fo shizzle...it was actually coined by Barry Goldwater in his presidential run after Lyndon Johnson spanked his ass in the general...he knocked back a quart of bourbon and when asked if he'd run again in 1968 said, "fffssshhzzlll"....true fact...I just wrote it on the internet.)

393 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:05:12am

re: #384 000G

How do you define greed?

I do wonder if to a certain degree the Protestant Work Ethic in a consumer society that has low (or relatively low) scarcity issues turns out to be a bit self-destructive. Go, Go, Go, Succeed, Succeed, Compete, Compete - keep up, keep UP!

Constant push to get more, more, more. And a mass marketing and advertising structure in place to reinforce it. And that educates our children as much as anything/anyone else.

And opting to tone things down and live life gets you labeled a "loser" or "quitter".

394 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:07:14am
395 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:07:40am

re: #392 darthstar

Mornin' fellow boomers...1964 IN DA HOUZE FO SHIZZLE! (we boomers say that, you know...fo shizzle...it was actually coined by Barry Goldwater in his presidential run after Lyndon Johnson spanked his ass in the general...he knocked back a quart of bourbon and when asked if he'd run again in 1968 said, "fffssshhzzlll"...true fact...I just wrote it on the internet.)

Does that mean all us "born in '64" pseudo-Boomer Lizards need to suffer an on-line mid-life crisis all at the same time?

;)

396 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:07:53am

re: #393 oaktree

But greed is a kind of desire, a feeling.

Ethics and economics are different things, really.

397 iossarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:08:18am

re: #395 oaktree

Does that mean all us "born in '64" pseudo-Boomer Lizards need to suffer an on-line mid-life crisis all at the same time?

;)

What's the avatar equivalent of a zippy red sports car?

398 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:09:33am

re: #395 oaktree

Does that mean all us "born in '64" pseudo-Boomer Lizards need to suffer an on-line mid-life crisis all at the same time?

;)

No, but I can create a google-doc so we can schedule our melt downs sequentially.

399 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:11:03am

re: #397 iossarian

What's the avatar equivalent of a zippy red sports car?

I call dibs on stud-muffin!

400 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:11:17am

I think all their sessions make good points about the load of nonsense called "Islam". If only the loads of nonsense called "Christianity", "Judaism", "Hinduism", "Buddhism", etc. were treated with similar contempt.... (of course, Geller et al. would never be so ecumenical...)

401 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:12:01am

re: #397 iossarian

What's the avatar equivalent of a zippy red sports car?

Sofia Vergara holding a Iphone.

:)

402 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:13:52am

Okay...time to run the boys. Try not to be wrong while I'm gone.

403 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:54:47am

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

A counseling session and a short waiting period (with those requirements waived if waiting would cause risk of death or physical injury to the woman) would be reasonable. How the counseling would be structured is something that would need very careful consideration, but I think a decent arrangement could be worked out.

OPTIONAL counseling or sonograms would be fine. MANDATORY counseling and sonograms, on the other hand, are not.

I would wager that most women these days know what they're getting into when it comes to abortion. They don't need someone forcing a wand up their vaginas against their will or trying to scare them with anti-abortion propaganda that tries to pass itself off as counseling.

404 iossarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:59:41am

re: #403 Lidane

OPTIONAL counseling or sonograms would be fine. MANDATORY counseling and sonograms, on the other hand, are not.

I would wager that most women these days know what they're getting into when it comes to abortion. They don't need someone forcing a wand up their vaginas against their will or trying to scare them with anti-abortion propaganda that tries to pass itself off as counseling.

Exactly. "You can have an abortion as long as you give us two weeks to try to trick you out of it."

The intellectual dishonesty of people who claim that this does not infringe a woman's right to an abortion is immediately displayed if you suggest counseling/waiting periods for people wanting to buy guns. Then it's all "MY RIGHTS ARE BEING TRAMPLED".

405 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:16:19am

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw a comment on Huffpo, I think, where someone said baseball took 168 games to figure out the playoffs. Obviously a genius. Heh.

That's not quite as dumb as it sounds. This season, all of the playoff teams went into the last game with none of them knowing who they were going to face until all the games were played.

I do believe that's the first time that's happened.

406 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 8:30:13am

Two radical Arab terrorists boarded a flight out of London.
One took a window seat and the other sat next to him in the middle
seat.. Just before takeoff, a rabbi sat down in the aisle seat.

After takeoff the rabbi kicked his shoes off, wiggled his toes and was
settling in when the Arab in the window seat said, 'I need to get up and
get a coke.' 'Don't get up,' said the rabbi, 'I'm in the aisle seat,
I'll get it for you.'

As soon as he left, one of the Arabs picked up the rabbi`s shoe and spat
in it. When the Rabbi returned with the coke, the other Arab said, 'That
looks good. I'd really like one, too.'

Again, the rabbi obligingly went to fetch it. While he was gone the
other Arab picked up the rabbi`s other shoe and spat in it.

When the rabbi returned, they all sat back and enjoyed the flight. As
the plane was landing, the rabbi slipped his feet into his shoes and
knew immediately what had happened.

He leaned over and asked his Arab neighbors:

'Why does it have to be this way?
'How long must this go on?
'This fighting between our nations?
'This hatred?
'This animosity?

'This spitting in shoes and pissing in cokes?'

407 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:03:47am

MSNBC working on becoming a less interesting version of FOX....
msnbc video Rewriting Occupy Wall Street protests Lawrence O'Donnell The Last Word

Lefties didn't learn anything from the Tea Party. Idiots.

408 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:04:45am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

Laughably melodramatic.

409 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:08:42am

re: #337 NJDhockeyfan
Breast slapping doesn't make your breasts bigger but rubbing toilet paper on them has been proven to enlarge your breasts.

410 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:09:59am

re: #409 Shropshire_Slasher

Breast slapping doesn't make your breasts bigger but rubbing toilet paper on them has been proven to enlarge your breasts.

You could just skip that and stuff the TP in your bra. That works.

411 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:13:21am

re: #410 EmmmieG

Well it worked for my wife's ass....
///

412 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:16:15am

Could someone please slap these people? Thanks.

Mitt Romney Describes Individual Mandate As ‘A Conservative Idea,’ Credits Gingrich For Supporting It

Mitt Romney described the individual health mandate as a “conservative idea” yesterday afternoon on Sean Hannity’s radio show, just as the federal government asked the Supreme Court to review the constitutionality of the provision in President Obama’s Affordable Care Act.

*sigh*

413 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:16:17am

re: #411 Shropshire_Slasher

Well it worked for my wife's ass...
///

Hmmm.

Studies around here have shown that eating cookie dough straight out of the fridge will do the same. Perhaps your wife wasn't controlling the experiment quite well enough.

414 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:27:27am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

That's a pretty big fail. It's very likely there was some bad cop behavior but O'Donnel was over the top.

415 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:28:22am

Also, Goodhair has some questions to answer:

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

A civil case Texas Gov. Rick Perry recently settled before entering the race for the White House is raising red flags about the Texas governor just as his once-surging candidacy has hit some speed bumps.

The case focuses on Perry’s alleged attempt to cover up $1 million in contributions to his 2006 campaign, and whether the Republican Governors’ Association, which Perry later headed, was used as a conduit to camouflage the donations, according to a report by Murray Waas in Reuters. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, Perry’s direct competitor for the GOP nomination, even has a cameo in the suit because he was chairman of the Republican Governors’ Association at the time.

On its face, the alleged original donation, made by Texas real estate mogul Bob Perry (no relation) of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth fame, wouldn’t have created any legal problems for Perry.

But, according to the lawsuit, Perry’s campaign was sensitive to criticism about the large-dollar donation from a sole contributor because it had just run an ad attacking Democratic opponent Chris Bell for accepting a big contribution from a single trial lawyer.

Chris Bell is the same Chris Bell that filed a complaint against former Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) for threatening retaliation against his vote on the Medicare prescription drug bill. After a long House Ethics Committee investigation, DeLay was found guilty of several violations and admonished three times.

Waas published a story Wednesday night pointing out serious contradictions between the campaign’s sworn statements and two top Perry aides’ depositions. TPM obtained the depositions. You can read them here and here.

416 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:38:05am

re: #414 BigPapa

That's a pretty big fail. It's very likely there was some bad cop behavior but O'Donnel was over the top.

Probably not.
Officer’s Pepper-Spraying of Protesters Is Under Investigation

Inspector Richter continued: “Deputy Inspector Bologna’s actions that day were motivated by his concern for the safety of officers under his command and the safety of the public. The limited use of pepper spray effectively restored order without any escalation of force or serious injury to either demonstrator or police officer.”

417 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:39:45am

While I'm bashing lefties this morning: Lots of love for Chavez in the comments over at Huffpoo....
Hugo Chavez's Health: Venezuelan President Denies Setback

418 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:44:41am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

I didn't like the generalizations of O'Donnel's rant either, but from the videos and the police statements he appears to have been entirely right, in this case.

419 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:45:06am

re: #416 Killgore Trout

Probably not.
Officer’s Pepper-Spraying of Protesters Is Under Investigation

Notice how the pepper spray was deployed by a commander, probably due to restrictions on the rank and file to make sure there was no indiscriminate use.

420 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:47:29am

re: #419 BigPapa

Notice how the pepper spray was deployed by a commander, probably due to restrictions on the rank and file to make sure there was no indiscriminate use.

I noticed that too. It's probably policy to leave that up to the supervisor so the cops scuffling with a protestor don't panic and start macing everyone. The cops are very vulnerable in these scuffles.

421 Lidane  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:51:52am

re: #417 Killgore Trout

While I'm bashing lefties this morning: Lots of love for Chavez in the comments over at Huffpoo...
Hugo Chavez's Health: Venezuelan President Denies Setback

It's mind-blowing to me how anyone could look at Chavez and see someone worth cheering. Do these people just not pay attention? I'm a liberal and I can't stand the douchebag. WTF.

422 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:51:54am

re: #420 Killgore Trout

I noticed that too. It's probably policy to leave that up to the supervisor so the cops scuffling with a protestor don't panic and start macing everyone. The cops are very vulnerable in these scuffles.

If you watched the video, there was no scuffling going on when he began spraying, and he continued to do so indiscriminately on the other side of the street. Then there is the takedown of someone who appears to have been filming everything.

423 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:52:01am

re: #420 Killgore Trout

I noticed that too. It's probably policy to leave that up to the supervisor so the cops scuffling with a protestor don't panic and start macing everyone. The cops are very vulnerable in these scuffles.

I watched several videos, and it was hard to tell because some people have trouble keeping their cameras still, but if you watched the extended version, the cops had arrested several young men right before then.

You should always watch the extended version.

424 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:58:21am
425 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 9:58:47am

re: #423 EmmmieG

I watched several videos, and it was hard to tell because some people have trouble keeping their cameras still, but if you watched the extended version, the cops had arrested several young men right before then.

You should always watch the extended version.

Lousy camera work is a big problem but also I'm sure they'll edit out any context that would exonerate the police. The whiny lefties love to be the victims every bit as much as the Tea Partiers. It's all about generating outrage and feeding their own delusions of persecution.

426 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:11:51am

re: #425 Killgore Trout

Lousy camera work is a big problem but also I'm sure they'll edit out any context that would exonerate the police. The whiny lefties love to be the victims every bit as much as the Tea Partiers. It's all about generating outrage and feeding their own delusions of persecution.

The part that was annoying me, to be honest, was the women screaming about someone being arrested as if they were watching him being shot. I don't mean the later screaming about the pepper spray; that was justified.

If you are protesting, you can be asked to remain in one area so that you don't disrupt the city. If the young man being arrested was being arrested improperly, he has legal recourse.

This isn't Syria.

427 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:17:17am

Among other things: Obama leads Perry 82-2 among Florida Jewish voters.

[Link: www.publicpolicypolling.com...]

In case you missed it:

The lulz kick in at 4:40

428 iossarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:17:38am

re: #426 EmmmieG

This isn't Syria.

No, but equally it has become harder to protest over the past 10 or so years, without question. This has been extensively reported on in the UK, where kettling is now the standard police tactic to make demonstrators' lives difficult.

It seems that the same tactics are beginning to make themselves felt in the US. We'll see how the "freedom of speech" crowd reacts.

429 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:25:36am

re: #428 iossarian

No, but equally it has become harder to protest over the past 10 or so years, without question. This has been extensively reported on in the UK, where kettling is now the standard police tactic to make demonstrators' lives difficult.

It seems that the same tactics are beginning to make themselves felt in the US. We'll see how the "freedom of speech" crowd reacts.

What is kettling?

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:25:44am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

MSNBC working on becoming a less interesting version of FOX...
msnbc video Rewriting Occupy Wall Street protests Lawrence O'Donnell The Last Word

[Video]Lefties didn't learn anything from the Tea Party. Idiots.

The tea party has nothing to teach anyone, on any topic.

The better analogy would have been, these particular lefties that have gotten under your skin didn't learn anything from Civil Rights movement that preceded them.

They're not alone in their ignorance, either. A lot of today's rebellion-is-cute-and-trendy" crowd has never had to struggle for anything in their overprivileged lives. In that way, they are indeed like the tea party.

431 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:27:49am

re: #430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The tea party has nothing to teach anyone, on any topic.

The better analogy would have been, these particular lefties that have gotten under your skin didn't learn anything from Civil Rights movement that preceded them.

They're not alone in their ignorance, either. A lot of today's rebellion-is-cute-and-trendy" crowd has never had to struggle for anything in their overprivileged lives. In that way, they are indeed like the tea party.

They did teach how not to dress at a debate...
//

432 iossarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:31:04am

re: #429 Rightwingconspirator

What is kettling?

It's when the police split demos up into small or medium-size groups, and keep them in specific locations, usually without access to drinking water/lavatories.

If you ask to leave the "kettle", you are allowed to, but you are then assumed to have left the demonstration/protest, so you're not covered by the "right to assemble" or equivalent in the same way (in other words, the police can then require you to leave the area, and your rights decline pretty swiftly after that).

433 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:32:37am

re: #403 Lidane

OPTIONAL counseling or sonograms would be fine. MANDATORY counseling and sonograms, on the other hand, are not.

I would wager that most women these days know what they're getting into when it comes to abortion. They don't need someone forcing a wand up their vaginas against their will or trying to scare them with anti-abortion propaganda that tries to pass itself off as counseling.

It's along the same lines as reparative "therapy", yet even far more coercive. A lot of con males get off on this stick-it-up-her-hole attitude.

Imagine having to be married to a man who thinks like that. Totally sociopathological, and authoritarian. That attitude as a long history.

434 allegro  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:40:53am

re: #432 iossarian

It's when the police split demos up into small or medium-size groups, and keep them in specific locations, usually without access to drinking water/lavatories.

If you ask to leave the "kettle", you are allowed to, but you are then assumed to have left the demonstration/protest, so you're not covered by the "right to assemble" or equivalent in the same way (in other words, the police can then require you to leave the area, and your rights decline pretty swiftly after that).

A classic example of legal-but-shitty thing to do.

435 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:41:15am

Anyone want some popcorn? This is getting interesting. Congressperson Maxine Waters vs President Obama

436 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:41:22am

Airline pilots (700 of 'em) join in on Wall Street.

Now that is impressive. Not your average hippies.

(I'm wondering why this is in the Denver Post and not the New York Post...)

437 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:42:09am

re: #432 iossarian

It's when the police split demos up into small or medium-size groups, and keep them in specific locations, usually without access to drinking water/lavatories.

If you ask to leave the "kettle", you are allowed to, but you are then assumed to have left the demonstration/protest, so you're not covered by the "right to assemble" or equivalent in the same way (in other words, the police can then require you to leave the area, and your rights decline pretty swiftly after that).

Thanks I had no idea.

438 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:47:11am

re: #432 iossarian

It's when the police split demos up into small or medium-size groups, and keep them in specific locations, usually without access to drinking water/lavatories.

If you ask to leave the "kettle", you are allowed to, but you are then assumed to have left the demonstration/protest, so you're not covered by the "right to assemble" or equivalent in the same way (in other words, the police can then require you to leave the area, and your rights decline pretty swiftly after that).

Given the violence of some demonstrators in recent years, I'm okay with everything except not letting people go back. The police are not responsible for your toilets or your water. However, you should be allowed to go and locate those items for yourself without leaving the protest.

Also, the "kettle" should be in a location reasonable to the demonstration. A demonstration about the mayor of Portland, for example, should be allowed to meet downtown, in a location they do not block traffic, and not in, say, Beaverton, or in some out of the way Portland neighborhood.

439 iossarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:47:34am

re: #437 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks I had no idea.

Yeah, it's been a "thing" in the UK pretty much since the original protests over the second Iraq war.

440 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:50:38am

re: #363 Obdicut

What did health insurance costs do in the 20 years previous to that, Rogue?

It was a self fulfilling prophecy from the beginning. The insurance companies played the fear card of raising premiums and they raised them to prove their point. And my insurance premium has gone up every year for at least the last 6 years running. Wonder how they explain the years of cost hikes before the affordable care act was even being talked about. Rogue?

441 iossarian  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:51:18am

re: #438 EmmmieG

I agree that there needs to be some kind of compromise on the location and control of protests. My only point was that, for the people involved in the Wall Street protests, such a change in police tactics represents a loss of "freedom of speech", which may be deemed acceptable (in that it preserves the personal safety of people working in the area, for example), or not (in that it makes it too difficult for people to exercise their right to protest).

As a woolly liberal, I'm quite happy to trade off one right against another.

442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 10:52:59am

re: #435 Rightwingconspirator

Anyone want some popcorn? This is getting interesting. Congressperson Maxine Waters vs President Obama

Ho hum. I happen to agree with the president's sentiment in the last paragraph.

Poster Cappadonna at ABL said it well the other day, re: the dog/pony show of Waters, Smiley, et al.

That said, I still like Maxine Waters. The race voyeurs trying to stoke these waters vs obama resentments really just have their own resentments against her, and often against both.

443 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:00:09am

re: #372 RogueOne

They rose just not as high of a percentage. If you think this is an aberration wait until next year when "price controls" go into effect.

I'm not sure why you're mad at me, I'm not the one who argued that HCR would lower costs. We were told they'd drop by $2500 and instead they've risen $2500. Did someone lie or where they just wrong?

Was there a mention of "when fully implemented" that went along with that figure in the statement that you got the numbers from? Sometimes people miss some of the words in statements and writings that don't quite fit what feeling they want to give.

Like the NRA likes the words "being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." but like to leave off the beginning words "A well regulated Militia," from it because it doesn't fit with their "don't regulate our guns" meme.

444 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:03:30am

re: #442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That poster Cappadonna there really nails it.

445 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:04:27am

re: #443 RayFerd

Like the NRA likes ... to leave off the beginning words "A well regulated Militia," from it because it doesn't fit with their "don't regulate our guns" meme.

Yes. They apply Biblical literalist principles to the Constitution. I wish they would save that for Sunday School.

446 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:08:33am

re: #442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ho hum. I happen to agree with the president's sentiment in the last paragraph.

Poster Cappadonna at ABL said it well the other day, re: the dog/pony show of Waters, Smiley, et al.

That said, I still like Maxine Waters. The race voyeurs trying to stoke these waters vs obama resentments really just have their own resentments against her, and often against both.

That's got to be the clearest explanation of the mountain Obama is trying to climb that I've ever read. It says it all. Thanks.

447 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:08:56am

re: #444 Obdicut

That poster Cappadonna there really nails it.

Yeah, there are some good people over at ABL. Plus, she is hilarious.

448 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:10:52am

re: #447 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, there are some good people over at ABL. Plus, she is hilarious.

I read ABL at Balloon Juice. I may just cut out the middleman and start reading her blog instead. Most of the stuff she posts at BJ is cross-posted anyway.

She sure does know how to get the pro-left all wound up. :)

449 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 11:15:20am

re: #448 makeitstop

I read ABL at Balloon Juice. I may just cut out the middleman and start reading her blog instead. Most of the stuff she posts at BJ is cross-posted anyway.

She sure does know how to get the pro-left all wound up. :)

That, she does. Tbh I don't know why she bothers crossposting at BJ anymore. Every other time she does, the commenters over there have a shyt fyt. Also, she's got some interesting fellow-Angries crossposting to her place. She's definitely hit her own stride in the past couple years.

450 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:36pm

re: #430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The tea party has nothing to teach anyone, on any topic.

The better analogy would have been, these particular lefties that have gotten under your skin didn't learn anything from Civil Rights movement that preceded them.

They're not alone in their ignorance, either. A lot of today's rebellion-is-cute-and-trendy" crowd has never had to struggle for anything in their overprivileged lives. In that way, they are indeed like the tea party.

Late to the discussion I know, but: TPs, assorted moonbats, and young angry lefties share a sense that they're entitled to their anger, and that part of that entitlement is the target of their anger has to address their hurt feelings, not just the actual issue at hand. Hence why neither group has any interest in Satyagraha techniques as implemented by Gandhi's followers or the Civil Rights protestors, which basically rely on setting aside one's personal emotional state.


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