GOP Candidates Endorse Granting Legal Rights to Embryos

Every sperm is sacred
Wingnuts • Views: 22,585

The religious right’s misogynistic “Personhood” bill may have been defeated by voters in Mississippi (one of the most conservative states in the nation), but that hasn’t stopped GOP presidential candidates Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, and Rick Perry from co-signing a pledge to support the ultimate anti-choice ideology.

In a political season when far right fundamentalists are pushing their agenda harder than ever, the “Personhood” movement may be the most extreme manifestation of their obsession with controlling women’s bodies. They seek to grant full human rights to zygotes — which would not only ban abortion in all cases, but also ban most forms of birth control and even in vitro fertilization.

Bachmann, Gingrich, and Santorum will show their support for this full tilt bad craziness by participating in a “Presidential Pro-Life Forum” next Tuesday, December 27th: Republican Presidential Candidates Embrace Granting Legal Rights to Human Embryos.

This month, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry and Rick Santorum have all signed a pledge to support “personhood” at conception that was crafted by Personhood USA, a Colorado group that has continued to push the idea in several states.

Mrs. Bachmann, Mr. Gingrich and Mr. Santorum have also agreed to celebrate the personhood concept in a “Presidential Pro-Life Forum” in Iowa next Tuesday, Dec. 27, that will be moderated by the conservative radio host Steve Deace and broadcast live on his syndicated program. The 90-minute “tele-town hall” is being hosted by Personhood USA and co-sponsored by several of the country’s most conservative evangelical Christian groups including The Call, Liberty Counsel and the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Coalition. “An invitation has been extended to the remaining G.O.P. presidential candidates,” Personhood USA said in a news release.

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92 comments
1 albusteve  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:13:22pm

GOP Freakshow Tour...
Coming to a town near you soon!

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:13:51pm

Your uterus belongs to us!

3 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:14:14pm

How fucked up one must be to think of an embryo - not even a fetus, an embryo! - as a full-fledged person with rights?

4 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:15:02pm

The only way they can bestow personhood on a fertilized egg is to take it away from the woman who carries it.

5 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:15:10pm

re: #3 Sergey Romanov

Anything to get around Roe vs Wade.

6 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:18:06pm

re: #3 Sergey Romanov

How fucked up one must be to think of an embryo - not even a fetus, an embryo! - as a full-fledged person with rights?

They will continue to push further and further in their quest to totally ban abortion, contraception, family planning, and any other reproductive rights for women. I mean, I can't really think where they can go next from here, but they'll find a way to become even more insane. Perhaps they'll take the Monty Python song literally and state that anything that might prevent fertilization is immoral.

7 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:19:10pm

“personhood”

if a fetus is a person then it can be taxed and sued in court

8 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:21:08pm

re: #7 engineer dog

“personhood”

if a fetus is a person then it can be taxed and sued in court

How do the rights of a child and the rights of an adult differ?

(I'm not fishing for a specific answer: I actually don't know. I know, for example, that a minor cannot consent to sex or sign a contract, but their earnings can be taxed.)

9 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:22:25pm

re: #6 Simply Sarah

anything that might prevent fertilization is immoral.

there are some types of shoes that might come under that heading

10 Robert O.  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:23:18pm

Will embryos be allowed to make unlimited political contributions like corporations, or will we have to wait for the Supreme Court to rule on that one?

11 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:24:19pm

This kind of craziness pissed me off...and I'm a Christian. Do any of these people know what Jesus actually said?

12 albusteve  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:26:37pm

re: #11 dragonfire1981

This kind of craziness pissed me off...and I'm a Christian. Do any of these people know what Jesus actually said?

Of course not....how could they?

13 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:26:56pm

re: #7 engineer dog

“personhood”

if a fetus is a person then it can be taxed and sued in court

Smith v. Unnamed person that is a 4 celled embryo.

14 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:29:49pm

re: #13 Simply Sarah

Smith v. Unnamed person that is a 4 celled embryo.

My sperm are all trained lawyers.. Which is cool..
Only one in every 100 Billion do any good..
/
Happy Holidays Sarah

15 Kragar  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:31:52pm

re: #7 engineer dog

“personhood”

if a fetus is a person then it can be taxed and sued in court

If a fetus is a person, can a woman be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor if she drinks before she realizes she is pregnant?

16 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:31:58pm

re: #14 HoosierHoops

My sperm are all trained lawyers.. Which is cool..
Only one in every 100 Billion do any good..
/
Happy Holidays Sarah

Happy Holidays Hoosier. :P (Could I maybe just say 4H?)

17 Cinnabar  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:32:46pm

Does that mean it can apply for social security benefits as a disabled person? (Can't move, can't see, can't hear...)

18 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:33:22pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If a fetus is a person, can a woman be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor if she drinks before she realizes she is pregnant?

Oh, you can probably count on it. How I wish I wasn't dead serious about that.

19 theheat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:33:56pm

They're paving the way to a theocracy. What they don't realize, or what doesn't seem to concern them, is at some point the theocracy they envision may not be the religion they hoped for. As the white majority faces the sunset as the number of minorities increases, they're rallying even harder to create a fucked up utopia of Christian America; a kinder, gentler time when you could burn a witch without the EPA breathing down your neck about air quality.

20 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:35:01pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If a fetus is a person, can a woman be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor if she drinks before she realizes she is pregnant?

It certainly could lead to women being taken into "protective custody" if it is ruled that their behavior is threatening the health or safety of the fetus, yes.

Long live Gilead!!!

21 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:36:01pm

re: #11 dragonfire1981

This kind of craziness pissed me off...and I'm a Christian. Do any of these people know what Jesus actually said?

fundies and others like them don't like the live jesus running around spouting all that hippie stuff - they want him to stay up on the cross with his mouth shut so they can make him say what they want to hear

a couple of anglican ministers said it the clearest in their book called 'The Book Of The Acts Of God":

"it must be admitted that the religion about Jesus is not the same as the religion of Jesus"

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:37:17pm

re: #19 theheat

you could burn a witch without the EPA breathing down your neck about air quality.

Ah so that's why they're against EPA!///

23 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:39:48pm

Do these rights include anchor embryos?

24 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:40:26pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, if we're going to go with the theory that a zygote is a person, why stop there? Every sperm is sacred, and any masturbatory emissions, where the sperm is clearly not seeking an egg, could be termed reckless abandonment.

/Elle Woods

25 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:40:38pm

a couple of anglican ministers said it the clearest

i didn't mean to be contributing to The Death of the Adverb:

"a couple of anglican ministers said it the most clearly"

/pedant off

26 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:41:08pm

re: #16 Simply Sarah

Happy Holidays Hoosier. :P (Could I maybe just say 4H?)

*wink*
I share your concerns about what this religious view could lead to in America..I sleep at night knowing that we have passed these relics behind.. Yes it's 2011 and a woman can control her destiny and Body in modern America.. And it has been upheld by the highest court in the Land..
Don't give one inch Woman and keep moving forward...I'm proud of you all

27 erik_t  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:41:58pm

♫ Every sperm is saaacred... ♫

28 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:42:39pm

re: #25 engineer dog

a couple of anglican ministers said it the clearest

i didn't mean to be contributing to The Death of the Adverb:

"a couple of anglican ministers said it the most clearly"

/pedant off

You talk good for an engineer.

29 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:42:51pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If a fetus is a person, can a woman be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor if she drinks before she realizes she is pregnant?

i wouldn't be a bit surprised

it's 'The Handmaid's Tale' coming soon to a womb near you

30 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:42:57pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If a fetus is a person, can a woman be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor if she drinks before she realizes she is pregnant?

Actually, she could be guilty of "personhood endangerment" a week before she is pregnant. Mammals are not considered pregnant until the zygote implants in the womb.

Human embryogenesis.

31 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:44:47pm

re: #30 wrenchwench

Actually, she could be guilty of "personhood endangerment" a week before she is pregnant. Mammals are not considered pregnant until the zygote implants in the womb.

Human embryogenesis.

This is also why the stuff about the pill causing abortions/terminating pregnancies is bullshit.

32 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:45:33pm
33 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:46:48pm

re: #27 erik_t

"I have wiped entire civilizations off my chest with a gym sock. "

34 researchok  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:47:19pm

re: #30 wrenchwench

Actually, she could be guilty of "personhood endangerment" a week before she is pregnant. Mammals are not considered pregnant until the zygote implants in the womb.

Human embryogenesis.

What the hell is wrong with you?

Science only confuses these morons.

Shame on you.
//

35 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:47:43pm

re: #32 Charles

I almost can't believe what's become of Pajamas Media: "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" is commie propaganda, or fascism, or porn, or something else really bad...

This is all your fault, Charles. Look what your actions have wrought!
/////

36 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:48:53pm

re: #26 HoosierHoops

*wink*
I share your concerns about what this religious view could lead to in America..I sleep at night knowing that we have passed these relics behind.. Yes it's 2011 and a woman can control her destiny and Body in modern America.. And it has been upheld by the highest court in the Land..
Don't give one inch Woman and keep moving forward...I'm proud of you all

Oh, you had better believe that we won't be moved, no matter what the misogynistic bastards try to throw at us.

37 researchok  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:50:34pm

re: #32 Charles

I almost can't believe what's become of Pajamas Media: "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" is commie propaganda, or fascism, or porn, or something else really bad...

That was worth reading for the Hitchens quote. The guy could turn a phrase like nobody's business, whether you agreed with him or not.

38 Kragar  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:50:42pm

re: #33 JasonA

"I have wiped entire civilizations off my chest with a gym sock. "

Need evidence of Exterminatus? I have a towel...

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:52:26pm

re: #32 Charles

Communism!!!1/

40 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:55:17pm

re: #32 Charles

Am reading the book (don't ruin the ending for me, please) and the protagonist is a journalist who investigates corporate corruption - which means he is someone who hates capitalism.

Because if we love someone/something, we let them do anything they want and if they make us suffer for it, we just love them all the more for it.

41 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:56:37pm

"In May 2008, it was announced that a 1977 will, found soon after Larsson's death, declared his wish to leave his assets to the Umeå branch of the Communist Workers League (now the Socialist Party)."

Oh gee. A 20-something European in 1970s with sympathies to Communism. Shocka! Call the World Anti-Communist League!

42 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:56:44pm

re: #32 Charles

I almost can't believe what's become of Pajamas Media: "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" is commie propaganda, or fascism, or porn, or something else really bad...

anything that portrays wealthy people as anything less than entirely virtuous is obvious communist fascist communism

now get back to work, plebians

43 Idle Drifter  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:59:16pm

Man if this goes any farther anyone will be charged be charged with crimes against humanity and mass genocide for a wet dream.

44 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:59:26pm

Did WikiLeaks pay for the documents?

Pfc. Bradley Manning allegedly suggested to someone at the Kansas military prison where he is being held that WikiLeaks paid for the hundreds of thousands of leaked documents, according to a legal document filed in the Article 32 proceedings for Manning.

This suggestion of payment for secrets could be a pivotal issue in the Manning case, and down the road in any potential effort by the government to prosecute WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

45 albusteve  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 1:59:58pm

re: #42 engineer dog

anything that portrays wealthy people as anything less than entirely virtuous is obvious communist fascist communism

now get back to work, plebians

Who works?

46 Bulworth  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:01:24pm

All this "less government" really sounds so awesome...

47 Kragar  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:01:56pm

re: #46 Bulworth

All this "less government" really sounds so awesome...

Less is more.

48 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:02:41pm

Peaceful protests continue....
Police officer allegedly assaulted at Occupy DC campsite

Police arrived to McPherson Square to investigate a report of a man assaulting a woman. When police arrived, they found several people who were allegedly disorderly.

Police shocked one suspect with a Taser while taking him into custody, the Examiner reports. Another suspect is accused of kicking a police officer in the groin.

49 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:03:53pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You are gonna hate this... awful story
Excerpt
Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.

Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:08:46pm

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

You are gonna hate this... awful story
Excerpt
Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.

Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.

Oh, holy crap.

51 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:10:40pm

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

You are gonna hate this... awful story
Excerpt
Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.

Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.

Ugh. I have to admit I almost forgot about that. That entire situation is utterly disgusting and it makes me very close to being physically ill to think about it. This is the future these people want. They've already started shaping it and if not stopped then any times a woman has sex she'll be opening herself up to jail time.

52 Idle Drifter  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:10:55pm

re: #32 Charles
In their world only certain people can be considered villains.

53 thatthatisis  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:13:58pm

Um, how do you determine when the unborn became an unborn? Birth days are pretty easy. Unborn dates might be a tad fuzzier.

How do you hold someone accountable for how they treat an unborn child when they might not have any idea the unborn child even exists?

54 sod  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:16:54pm

I think abortion should be legal up to the 400th trimester.

55 Flounder  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:18:35pm

Just a quick note, Occupy Albany NY was broken up today, the remaining protesters are parading a large storage type tent through the streets of Albany right now.

56 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:18:39pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Peaceful protests continue...
Police officer allegedly assaulted at Occupy DC campsite

Look what Google turned up. Dunno how real this is, might be Aussie based.

[Link: www.occupypolice.org...]

57 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:19:07pm

an iowa raven is flying around predicting the death of the republican party as it cries "caucus! caucus!"

58 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:19:23pm

re: #54 sod

I think abortion should be legal up to the 400th trimester.

In ancient Rome, a father had the right to kill his children indefinitely.

59 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:19:37pm

re: #53 thatthatisis

Um, how do you determine when the unborn became an unborn? Birth days are pretty easy. Unborn dates might be a tad fuzzier.

How do you hold someone accountable for how they treat an unborn child when they might not have any idea the unborn child even exists?

They're not really all that concerned about that. If/perhaps/maybe works well enough for them. They don't really care about the embryo or fetus or whatever, even if they convince themselves that's the case. Deep down, they really just want to control women, even those that may be women themselves.

60 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:20:01pm

Your mother just had the right to make you wish you were dead.

61 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:23:30pm

re: #56 Rightwingconspirator

Look what Google turned up. Dunno how real this is, might be Aussie based.

[Link: www.occupypolice.org...]

So far they have one anonymously written letter of support from a police officer. I suspect there are probably police who might support the general purpose of the protests but probably not the protesters have been so violent and uncooperative that I doubt there's going to be much support from police. Had the protesters been better behaved they might have gotten a lot of support from police.

62 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:25:06pm

re: #55 Shropshire_Slasher

I think the evictions are doing Occupy a favor. It forces them to act with coordinated actions or dissolve. Like LA has cut a deal with Pasadena PD. They will protest at the parade. Behind all the rest of the floats, bands, cars etc.

63 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:27:02pm

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

You are gonna hate this... awful story


Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.

Investigate every blood clot. It's the only way to be sure.

Then once we've passed the Every Sperm is Sacred Act of 2016 we can start charging males with attempted genocide if they shake it more than 3 times when taking a leak.

64 albusteve  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:27:40pm

re: #62 Rightwingconspirator

I think the evictions are doing Occupy a favor. It forces them to act with coordinated actions or dissolve. Like LA has cut a deal with Pasadena PD. They will protest at the parade. Behind all the rest of the floats, bands, cars etc.

Can't hurt...camping out was always a bad idea...someone needs to tell them what to do

65 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:27:48pm

I'll say this for Paul: his ads are really entertaining.

66 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:28:10pm

I've posted this before, I'll do it again. These people look at what happened in El Salvador and think it's good.

67 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:28:23pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

The rare violence is not the issue. Most cops would rather deal with occupy than an LA gang for instance. The refusal to either cooperate or (opinions vary) be taken over by traditional interests like unions has hurt them far more. heck the violence we see at OLA was less than what's typical for the may Day parades.

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:29:29pm

re: #54 sod

I think abortion should be legal up to the 400th trimester.

DIY.

69 Petero1818  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:31:36pm

Honestly, if these people got everything they wanted with respect to the role of religion in our lives would it look any different than countries governed by sharia? I mean I understand that there wouldn't be burkas (instead just big blonde hair and too much make up) and that there wouldn't be stonings and the like. But I am not sure that there would be much less religious interference in the personal affairs of ordinary citizens, particularly women and children. The impact on education, choice, reproductive freedom, sexual orientation would be almost indistinguishable.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:31:41pm

re: #53 thatthatisis

Um, how do you determine when the unborn became an unborn? Birth days are pretty easy. Unborn dates might be a tad fuzzier.

How do you hold someone accountable for how they treat an unborn child when they might not have any idea the unborn child even exists?

That's one of the biggest problems with this whole concept. Human biology does not support the idea that a fertilized egg, or even an implanted embryo can, let alone should, be treated as a human being under the law.

71 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:35:10pm

re: #51 Simply Sarah

Ugh. I have to admit I almost forgot about that. That entire situation is utterly disgusting and it makes me very close to being physically ill to think about it. This is the future these people want. They've already started shaping it and if not stopped then any times a woman has sex she'll be opening herself up to jail time.

Earlier this year in Georgia a bill was proposed which would have required police to investigate every miscarriage as a possible prenatal murder.

72 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:35:13pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Except criminal law. I want a robber/rapist who shoots or hurts a pregnant woman to be liable for every human being he hurts in the act.

73 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:41:30pm

re: #65 JasonA

I'll say this for Paul: his ads are really entertaining.

[Video]

If you didn't know who Ron Paul was, you'd guess from this ad he is a left-wing peace activist.

74 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:44:11pm

re: #72 Rightwingconspirator

Except criminal law. I want a robber/rapist who shoots or hurts a pregnant woman to be liable for every human being he hurts in the act.

In other words you want the embryo given personhood.

No. Call the embryo a person in law for any reason and you have created precedence for all the other reasons.

It's unnecessary given you can make "additional harm" clauses for pregnant women without claiming the embryo is a person - a human being who was also hurt.

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:45:11pm

granting legal rights to embryos is very relevant to unemployment and creating jobs!

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:45:24pm

re: #72 Rightwingconspirator

Except criminal law. I want a robber/rapist who shoots or hurts a pregnant woman to be liable for every human being he hurts in the act.

Tricky waters, though, making that distinction.

77 EiMitch  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:46:17pm

I'm a tech dunce. But if that wasn't the case, if I was a pro-hacker like in the (ridiculously improbable) movies, I'd make the "Presidential Pro-Life Forum" open with the first several minutes of the George Carlin HBO special "Back in Town."

(for those who don't recall, its the one that opened with "why is it that the people who are against abortion look like people you wouldn't want to f*** in the first place?")

A guy can dream.

78 Petero1818  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:46:27pm

I remember when my wife was undergoing fertility treatments we had to check off what we wanted done with any ebryo that was left over after successful treatments. The choices were 1) donated and implanted in someone else 2) used for scientific research 3) destroyed.

I did not really have to think twice. We did not really want it implanted in anyone else, but certainly if it could be of any benefit to research and reproductive or stem cell science we were happy to help. We chose #2. Our thought process on destroying it, was simply "why destroy something that may have a potential benefit to someone else through research. We felt good about our choice. The notion that we were destroying life was not only not considered, but not even imagined. It is absolute fantasy to argue personhood for an embryo and it is the product of fanatical idealogues and not out of any sense of rational thought.

79 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:47:27pm

re: #69 Petero1818

Honestly, if these people got everything they wanted with respect to the role of religion in our lives would it look any different than countries governed by sharia? I mean I understand that there wouldn't be burkas (instead just big blonde hair and too much make up) and that there wouldn't be stonings and the like. But I am not sure that there would be much less religious interference in the personal affairs of ordinary citizens, particularly women and children. The impact on education, choice, reproductive freedom, sexual orientation would be almost indistinguishable.

Give this guy a beard and an Arabic accent, change absolutely nothing else, and he's indistinguishable from any hardcore conservative Mullah you'll find on MEMRI.

80 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 2:49:28pm

re: #73 aagcobb

If you didn't know who Ron Paul was, you'd guess from this ad he is a left-wing utopian whacko naive peace activist.

I hope that's not redundant.

81 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:04:38pm

re: #7 engineer dog

“personhood”

if a fetus is a person then it can be taxed and sued in court

They have been getting away with it for too long!!!//

82 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:05:53pm

re: #13 Simply Sarah

Smith v. Unnamed person that is a 4 celled embryo.

Ooops!!! Now he's 8!!

83 Kragar  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:06:26pm

re: #82 Amory Blaine

Ooops!!! Now he's 8!!

16 now.

Better make it a class action suit.

84 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:10:01pm

re: #74 kirkspencer

Hold on. Precedence does not have to work like that. Criminal law is separate from other chapters of the law. In California murderers of pregnant women are charged for the multiple crime. Yet a pregnant woman can not use the diamond lane.

My opinion on "person hood" is completely apart from the topic as shown above. I go for the biological definition. I won't pretend it's not a person in there to fallaciously defend a womans right to choose. The womans right to choose exists in my mind as an absolute. Regardless of the label we choose for the developing human being in the womb.

Of course the GOP sees it wrongly. Well that's why I'm not in the party.

85 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:12:51pm

House accepts senate tax holiday extension:

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:16:34pm

When did Condi become SecState? What year?

87 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:17:24pm

This one is better than the one with the lizard:

88 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:18:32pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

When did Condi become SecState? What year?

On November 16, 2004, Bush nominated Rice to be Secretary of State. On January 26, 2005, the Senate confirmed her nomination by a vote of 85–13

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:23:53pm
90 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:32:21pm

You owe it to yourself to watch the Prometheus trailer in full 1080p if at all possible.

[Link: trailers.apple.com...]

91 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 3:51:38pm

re: #84 Rightwingconspirator

"Precedence does not have to work like that."

It doesn't HAVE to do so, but it creates the opportunity to do so.

I'll point out that several right to life organizations are trying to use the "child in utero" portion of the unborn victims act (PL 108-212, which appears 18 USC &sect1841 and the UCMJ) as precedence for just this, even though the law carefully excluded abortions AND made it clear that this was not declaring the child in utero to be a person under the law.

So yes, I resist actually declaring them as persons. What's there already -- extra penalty if the victim is pregnant -- is sufficient.

92 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Dec 22, 2011 4:10:09pm

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

You are gonna hate this... awful story
Excerpt
Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.

Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.

Yay!

We are so pro life! But only for caucasian clumps of cells, cuz everything else is coming for yer daughters, yer jobs or yer stuff!!

Stupid filthy socons.


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