To Avoid Wrongful Death Lawsuit, Colorado Catholic Hospital Argues a Fetus Isn't a Person

To Avoid Wrongful Death Lawsuit, Colorado Catholic Hospital Argues a Fetus Isn’t a Person

Malpractice suit being appealed to Colorado Supreme Court

US NewsJanuary 2013 • Views: 28,956

St. Thomas More Hospital, operated by Catholic Health Initiatives, argues its way out of a wrongful death lawsuit by claiming that fetuses are not people. The case is heading to the Colorado Supreme Court.

The lead defendant in the case is Catholic Health Initiatives, the Englewood-based nonprofit that runs St. Thomas More Hospital as well as roughly 170 other health facilities in 17 states. Last year, the hospital chain reported national assets of $15 billion. The organization’s mission, according to its promotional literature, is to ‘nurture the healing ministry of the Church’ and to be guided by ‘fidelity to the Gospel.’ Toward those ends, Catholic Health facilities seek to follow the Ethical and Religious Directives of the Catholic Church authored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. Those rules have stirred controversy for decades, mainly for forbidding non-natural birth control and abortions. ‘Catholic health care ministry witnesses to the sanctity of life ‘from the moment of conception until death,” the directives state. ‘The Church’s defense of life encompasses the unborn.’

The directives can complicate business deals for Catholic Health, as they can for other Catholic health care providers, partly by spurring political resistance. In 2011, the Kentucky attorney general and governor nixed a plan in which Catholic Health sought to merge with and ultimately gain control of publicly funded hospitals in Louisville. The officials were reacting to citizen concerns that access to reproductive and end-of-life services would be curtailed. According to The Denver Post, similar fears slowed the Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth’s plan over the last few years to buy out Exempla Lutheran Medical Center and Exempla Good Samaritan Medical Center in the Denver metro area.

But when it came to mounting a defense in the Stodghill case, Catholic Health’s lawyers effectively turned the Church directives on their head. Catholic organizations have for decades fought to change federal and state laws that fail to protect ‘unborn persons,’ and Catholic Health’s lawyers in this case had the chance to set precedent bolstering anti-abortion legal arguments. Instead, they are arguing state law protects doctors from liability concerning unborn fetuses on grounds that those fetuses are not persons with legal rights.

And lest we think that this is merely some legal trick conjured by the lawyers, the client had to approve this defense from the outset.

There are other potential methods of defending a malpractice suit in this case, but the hospital chain, and the Church official at the hospital chain who were involved in the decision, agreed that they would go against the stated church doctrine on abortion and treating a fetus as a person.

In this case, it was the monetary interests of defending the hospital against a malpractice suit to bring out the hypocrisy of the church on this matter. It also presents a test case to show the limits of church doctrine as it relates to health policy, abortion, and the treatment of pregnant women.

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169 comments

wrenchwench Thu, Jan 24, 2013 10:00:52am

Thank you!

wrenchwench Thu, Jan 24, 2013 10:01:55am

Oops, wrong link!

wrenchwench Thu, Jan 24, 2013 10:42:58am

This is the link you used earlier.

Skip Intro Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:37:21am

I think the legal precedent the Chruch is applying here is if it costs us money, it’s an unviable tissue mass. If it costs you money, it’s a gift from God.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:56:13am

Nice work.

TedStriker Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:56:53am

re: #4 Skip Intro

I think the legal precedent the Chruch is applying here is if it costs us money, it’s an unviable tissue mass.

Yeah, pretty much, only add, “if it costs you money, it’s a gift from God…and you’ll burn in Hell for all of eternity if you deny His will”.

Funny how often hard-and-fast rules and beliefs are easily bent when millions of dollars (and legal precedent) are on the line…

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:57:34am

Awfully convenient.

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:58:47am

Fetuses aren’t people too, my friend.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:58:52am

re: #4 Skip Intro

I think the legal precedent the Chruch is applying here is if it costs us money, it’s an unviable tissue mass. If it costs you money, it’s a gift from God.

Goes along with their “Homosexuality is a sin, unless its done by a Catholic priest to a preteen boy, in which case, we’ll hide the evidence as best we can” policy.

Ghost of Tom Joad Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:58:54am

It also presents a test case to show the limits of church doctrine as it relates to ~~health policy, abortion, and the treatment of pregnant women~~ money.

FTFY

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:59:04am

This was the wame institution that stonewalled investigations of child abuse cases until the US Attorney General threatened to slap them with a RICO suit.

And they still insist to people who tithe to the church that none of that money is being used to settle abuse lawsuits.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:00:04pm

This is yet another reason why I grow more anti-clerical with years. Still can’t get over the damn Catholic guilt though.

TedStriker Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:00:37pm

re: #9 Kragar

Goes along with their “Homosexuality is a sin, unless its done by a Catholic priest to a preteen boy, in which case, we’ll hide the evidence as best we can” policy.

GMTA…I was actually going to put something like that in my post when I edited it a minute ago, but decided not to.

Spot on.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:01:52pm

re: #9 Kragar

Goes along with their “Homosexuality is a sin, unless its done by a Catholic priest to a preteen boy, in which case, we’ll hide the evidence as best we can” policy.

Don’t forget all the fascist dictatorships too that the church has had no problem with. Ones that killed living, breathing people.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:03:11pm

God is pretty cool, its just all the people claiming to work for him tend to be complete fucking assholes.

Lidane Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:03:26pm

Hmm. This might be my cynicism talking, but this is actually a fairly cunning plan by the Catholic hospital. Either way, they win.

If they win the lawsuit, they save money. BUT if they lose the lawsuit and the court defines the fetus as a person, then what’s the next step?

TedStriker Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:03:58pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

Don’t forget all the fascist dictatorships too that the church has had no problem with. Ones that killed living, breathing people.

But, most of those were brown people so they don’t really count.

///extremely

jaunte Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:04:24pm

Whether the high court decides to take the case, kick it back down to the appellate court for a second review or accept the decisions as they stand, the details of the arguments the lawyers involved have already mounted will likely renew debate about Church health care directives and trigger sharp reaction from activists on both sides of the debate looking to underline the apparent hypocrisy of Catholic Health’s defense.

‘Apparent’ hypocrisy. That journalistic balance fairy is going to throw her back out.

makeitstop Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:04:46pm

Between this and the ‘fetus as evidence’ law being proposed in NM, I’d say they’ve taken a brick of C-4 to the whole concept of personhood.

Tumulus11 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:04:46pm

‘Stodghill’s obstetrician, Dr. Pelham Staples, who also happened to be the obstetrician on call for emergencies that night, never answered a page. His patient died at the hospital less than an hour after she arrived and her twins died in her womb.’

. If Dr. Staples had answered his pager, the twins might have become ‘persons’.

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:05:02pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

Don’t forget all the fascist dictatorships too that the church has had no problem with. Ones that killed living, breathing people.

Same deal, they were just protecting their property from confiscation by the socialists.

BroncD Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:05:32pm

re: #9 Kragar

Let’s be careful not to describe what these priests do as “homsexuality.” They are pedophiles and vicious sexual predators.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:06:12pm

Another disaster poised to hit New Orleans.

Sorry, New Orleans: The Super Bowl Won’t Bring A Major Boost To Your Economy

Officials expect 150,000 people to descend on the city for the Super Bowl, and economic impact studies estimate that the game will bring $434 million to the city’s economy. Hosting three mega sporting events — the 2012 NCAA men’s Final Four and this year’s Super Bowl and women’s Final Four — will boost the city’s economy by more than $1 billion, according to an estimate from the International Business Times. And business leaders and lawmakers think the media exposure involved with hosting the big game will push the boom to immeasurable levels.

Those estimates, though, are likely fool’s gold, according to an assortment of academic research into the actual economic impact of Super Bowls and other major sporting events. When professors Victor Matheson and Robert Baade studied the economic impact of Super Bowls from 1973 to 1997, they found that the games boosted city economies by about $30 million, “roughly one-tenth the figures touted by the NFL” and an even smaller fraction of what New Orleans officials predict. A later Baade and Matheson study found that the economic impact of a Super Bowl is “on average one-quarter or less the magnitude of the most recent NFL estimates.”

Similarly, a 1999 paper from professor Philip Porter found that the Super Bowl had virtually no effect on a city’s economy. Research on other events New Orleans has hosted, including the men’s Final Four, is similar. When Baade and Matheson studied Final Fours, they found that the events tend “not to translate into any measurable benefits to the host cities.”

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:07:34pm

re: #22 BroncD

Let’s be careful not to describe what these priests do as “homsexuality.” They are pedophiles and vicious sexual predators.

True, which makes their defense of pedophilia while calling consenting adults sinners all the more hypocritical.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:08:01pm

re: #17 TedStriker

But, most of those were brown people so they don’t really count.

///extremely

I wouldn’t say it was racism. Not defending it but I don’t think the church was motivated by racism in okaying fascist regimes. I think they genuinely believed that fascism was an acceptable form of government and I think that’s just as if not more scary.

BroncD Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:09:51pm

re: #24 Kragar

Hypocritical and vile.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:10:51pm

Erickson: Americans will ‘have to get used to’ climate change

Appearing on CNN Wednesday evening, right-wing blogger and CNN contributor Erick Erickson insisted that humanity cannot do anything about climate change to the degree that people alive today would even notice an improvement, so we’ll all just “have to get used to” it.

Instead of talking to a scientists about climate change, CNN’s Erin Burnett asked Erickson to give his assessment of whether efforts to counteract climate change would be successful. His response: “What’s it matter?”

“It seems to me the biggest problem that global warming advocates have is that every time the conversation comes up there’s a snowstorm, and maybe if it were summer instead of the winter people would buy into it,” he said. “Really the biggest problem is, what does it matter?”

Erickson, you fucking moron.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:11:39pm

When I helped the poor, they called me a saint, but when I asked why are they poor, they called me a Marxist.

Lidane Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:11:46pm

re: #27 Kragar

Erickson: Americans will ‘have to get used to’ climate change

Image: Jesus_facepalm.jpg

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:12:34pm

re: #27 Kragar

Erickson: Americans will ‘have to get used to’ climate change

“We can’t do anything about it” is, I guess, vaguely better than “it’s not real and all of the scientists are part of a vast conspiracy because squirrel”.

Not by much, but a little.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:13:09pm

re: #27 Kragar

Erickson: Americans will ‘have to get used to’ climate change

Erickson, you fucking moron.

So we’ve gone from AGW is a hoax to some nutter acknowledging that it is real but we should just ignore it? Yeah, that’s smart. Too bad things like ocean temperatures matter a great deal for life as a whole on this planet. Maybe if Erickson actually tried to educate himself on science rather than just dismissing science as a threat to his religious beliefs, he’d know that.

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:13:10pm

The RC church has always been about MONEY.

More babies, more money given to the church. More babies, more poor people=more reason to give money to the church.

It’s a great scam, if you can work it.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:14:16pm

re: #32 FemNaziBitch

The RC church has always been about MONEY.

More babies, more money given to the church. More babies, more poor people=more reason to give money to the church.

It’s a great scam, if you can work it.

Third generation lapsed Catholic. No regrets.

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:16:22pm

re: #16 Lidane

Hmm. This might be my cynicism talking, but this is actually a fairly cunning plan by the Catholic hospital. Either way, they win.

If they win the lawsuit, they save money. BUT if they lose the lawsuit and the court defines the fetus as a person, then what’s the next step?

Actually, there might be a criminal law precedent.

If a pregant woman is murdered the killer is charged with 2 counts of murder —no?

I don’t know if this is so in Colorado Law.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:19:41pm

Listeners and employees quit Georgia public broadcasting as mind-control conspiracy theorist takes over

Georgia residents have begun canceling their donations to Georgia Public Broadcasting after a recent report revealed that a former Republican state senator — who believes the United Nations is planning to turn the U.S. into a communist dictatorship using mind control — is receiving a salary of $150,000 to run part of the network.

GPB announced last month that then-State Sen. Chip Rogers (R) would be heading a new initiative to tell the story of Georgia businesses on public radio, but it wasn’t until the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that his salary would be higher than Gov. Nathan Deal’s (R) that employees and Georgia residents began to express outrage.

GPB member Sandy Wood recently cut off her $20-a-month donation and received a letter from GPB Vice President Yvette Cook, who claimed that Rogers’ position would be funded with taxpayer money instead of listener contributions.

I would write a letter back. “It doesn’t matter if you use my money or a grant or had him there working for free. As long as you have that nut working at your station, you’re getting nothing from me.”

wrenchwench Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:22:33pm

re: #22 BroncD

Let’s be careful not to describe what these priests do as “homsexuality.” They are pedophiles and vicious sexual predators.

You can say that again.

I’ve spent nearly a decade writing about Eleuterio Ramos, the most notorious pedophile priest in the history of the Diocese of Orange, a monster who admitted to molesting “at least” 25 boys, a ghoul who church officials—including current Diocese of Boise and Diocese of Sacramento bishops Michael Driscoll and Jaime Soto, and current St. Timothy Church pastor John Urell—sent down to Tijuana in 1985 to ensure he’d escape the law after admitting to molesting a teenager at St. Anthony Claret in Anaheim.

And Tijuana is where the final mystery of Ramos exists.

The Orange diocese’s personnel files on Ramos makes no mention of any Ramos victims based down there (although Ramos liked to take OC children to Tijuana to get gang-raped), and none of the dozens of people who have filed civil lawsuits against Ramos and the diocese of Orange and Los Angeles (where Ramos previously served) ever alleged they were from Ramos’ Tijuana holiday. But the massive document dump yesterday by the LA Archdiocese has unearthed for the first time ever a Ramos victim in Tijuana.

[…]

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:22:49pm

re: #34 FemNaziBitch

Actually, there might be a criminal law precedent.

If a pregant woman is murdered the killer is charged with 2 counts of murder —no?

I don’t know if this is so in Colorado Law.

In 36 states and in federal law, but (at least on the federal side) the fetus appears to be granted this status only in the context of injury or death during the commission of other specifically-indicated crimes, and explicitly not abortion.

It seems really, really weird.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:24:17pm

Really makes me uneasy reading about all these Catholic priests. I know the vast majority did not molest kids but too much were involved in the cover up for comfort. It makes me wonder about my own great uncle who was a priest. And I know that’s not fair to him especially because no one deserves unfounded accusation and he’s blood.

b_sharp Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:24:24pm

re: #15 Kragar

“God is pretty cool,…”

(My edit)

But the Devil is HAWT!

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:26:59pm

Obama putting women in combat is part of an intentional plan on his part to feminize and weaken the U.S. military.
— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) January 24, 2013

b_sharp Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:28:20pm

re: #40 Kragar

Put him in the same octagon as my wife and we’ll see how weak Bryan is.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:28:35pm

re: #39 b_sharp

(My edit)

But the Devil is HAWT!

Yeah she is.

Image: Elizabeth_Hurley_Bedazzled.jpg

A Mom Anon Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:28:36pm

re: #35 Kragar

The whole idea of Rogers being in there in the first place is to destroy GPB. It looks like one way or the other the GOP nutbars here will get their way.

I really wish we could find decent jobs in another state and get the hell out of here.

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:29:49pm

re: #40 Kragar

@BryanJFischer Obama putting women in combat is part of an intentional plan on his part to feminize and weaken the U.S. military.

“Feminize” used as an implicit negative. You’re such a fucking charmer, Bryan.

b_sharp Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:30:16pm

re: #42 Kragar

Yeah she is.

Image: Elizabeth_Hurley_Bedazzled.jpg

I’ll be back in a couple of minutes.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:30:23pm

re: #41 b_sharp

Put him in the same octagon as my wife and we’ll see how weak Bryan is.

This coming from a man who said being awarded the Medal of Honor for risking your life saving other soldiers feminized the Medal of Honor.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:30:28pm

re: #40 Kragar

Says the man who thinks giving a CMOH to a person who saved lives delegitimizes the Congressional Medal of Honor.

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:30:52pm

re: #37 erik_t

In 36 states and in federal law, but (at least on the federal side) the fetus appears to be granted this status only in the context of injury or death during the commission of other specifically-indicated crimes, and explicitly not abortion.

It seems really, really weird.

abortion is not a crime, so yes, it makes sense.

What doesn’t make sense is the RC Hospital’s stance. Medical negligence may not be the cause of the death of the mother, when they didn’t even attempt to save the fetuses (at 7months gestation), does seem to be medical negligence.

Frankly, if I were the mother, I’d have told them to cut me open and do whatever they could for the fetuses, regardless of an obstetrician’s instruction or not. They had to have had a surgeon and OB Neo-Natal Nurses on site.

As the women was not conscious, I’d think her husband’s word would have been legal enough to do so.

It just seems a little weird that they didn’t do so. Even a non-religious affiliated hospital would so something, I think.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:31:40pm

re: #41 b_sharp

Put him in the same octagon as my wife and we’ll see how weak Bryan is.

No kidding, we were always more afraid of my mom than dad when we were kids. Women can be tough. Maybe Mr. Fischer would realize that if he wasn’t tweeting all day.

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:32:30pm

re: #48 FemNaziBitch

abortion is not a crime, so yes, it makes sense.

The only part I meant to say was weird is the explicit and codified idea that a lump of cells can be a person sometimes, and not a person other times, based on what’s going on around them/it.

I think the ultimate resulting law is as sensible as anything can be in this context.

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:32:58pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Really makes me uneasy reading about all these Catholic priests. I know the vast majority did not molest kids but too much were involved in the cover up for comfort. It makes me wonder about my own great uncle who was a priest. And I know that’s not fair to him especially because no one deserves unfounded accusation and he’s blood.

It reminds me of the complicity of the upper/middle management Germans in the hierarchy during the Nazi era. Complicity allowed the atrocities to happen.

One probably errs more on the side of trust with the Church. If the higher-ups say they are doing the right thing and show some evidence of such, then one wants to believe.

Did anyone here see the movie “Doubt” with Meryl Streep?

b_sharp Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:33:15pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

No kidding, we were always more afraid of my mom than dad when we were kids. Women can be tough. Maybe Mr. Fischer would realize that if he wasn’t tweeting all day.

Both my mother and my wife were/are willing to make the hard choices when it comes to protecting family. They also have no problem fighting dirty.

Shvaughn Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:33:42pm

re: #40 Kragar

Bryan Fischer @BryanJFischer

Obama putting women in combat is part of an intentional plan on his part to feminize and weaken the U.S. military.

Do these people really think that Israel’s army is that weak?

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:34:16pm

It seems to be the law that up to a certain point, a mother has the right to determine what happens to the fetus she is bearing.

If she chooses to terminate it, that is one matter, it is allowed under certain circumstances. If someone else does it against her will, that is another.

It is not contradictory in that respect.

Petero1818 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:34:58pm

re: #16 Lidane

Hmm. This might be my cynicism talking, but this is actually a fairly cunning plan by the Catholic hospital. Either way, they win.

If they win the lawsuit, they save money. BUT if they lose the lawsuit and the court defines the fetus as a person, then what’s the next step?

I suspect the court will go out of its way not to rule on the question of if the fetus is a person.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:35:01pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

No kidding, we were always more afraid of my mom than dad when we were kids. Women can be tough. Maybe Mr. Fischer would realize that if he wasn’t tweeting all day.

Fischer never got over his mother leaving his dad for another man, and then blaming his dad for not being able to keep her. Fischer is a profoundly broken individual.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:35:03pm

re: #51 FemNaziBitch

It reminds me of the complicity of the upper/middle management Germans in the hierarchy during the Nazi era. Complicity allowed the atrocities to happen.

One probably errs more on the side of trust with the Church. If the higher-ups say they are doing the right thing and show some evidence of such, then one wants to believe.

Did anyone here see the movie “Doubt” with Meryl Streep?

That was a powerful movie.

steve_davis Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:35:47pm

re: #9 Kragar

Goes along with their “Homosexuality is a sin, unless its done by a Catholic priest to a preteen boy, in which case, we’ll hide the evidence as best we can” policy.

Well, except that comparing homosexuality and pedophilia is like comparing therapeutic body massage to full-leather bondage.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:36:14pm

re: #53 Shvaughn

Do these people really think that Israel’s army is that weak?

I always point that out and the fact that Israel allows openly gays and lesbians to serve. They seem to be doing just fine as a top fighting force.

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:36:24pm

re: #52 b_sharp

Both my mother and my wife were/are willing to make the hard choices when it comes to protecting family. They also have no problem fighting dirty.

I think women tend to go for the jugular and end conflict as quickly as possible. We have more important things to do.

Men seem to fight just for the sake of fighting.

TedStriker Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:37:02pm

re: #40 Kragar

Tell that to Vasquez from Aliens, Bryan…

Destro Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:37:33pm

re: #58 steve_davis

Well, except that comparing homosexuality and pedophilia is like comparing therapeutic body massage to full-leather bondage.

Whoa there - slow down….There is nothing wrong with therapeutic body massage or full-leather bondage if between consenting adults.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:38:41pm

re: #58 steve_davis

Well, except that comparing homosexuality and pedophilia is like comparing therapeutic body massage to full-leather bondage.

Matthew 7:3 “”Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:39:59pm

re: #63 Kragar

Matthew 7:3 “”Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”

EXCELLENT!!

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:41:38pm

Don’t forget to mention to Fischer about all the great Soviet women snipers of WWII but of course he’ll probably ignore that just because they were Soviets.

Lidane Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:42:18pm

Apparently, if you could refrigerate homosexuality like pork, it would no longer be a sin bit.ly/WiJWrN
— Right Wing Watch (@RightWingWatch) January 24, 2013

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:44:49pm

The thing that earned Rick Santorum the rather unsavory neologism was the way he morally equated homosexuality to bestiality, pedophilia and wife-beating.

And to his mind, they are the same, because he sees them as abominations unto the Lord, and therefore, all things that we should outlaw as sinful and immoral.

He believes that we are all free to “obey God’s will”.

There is no arguing with people like that, all you can do is mock them and make them appear ludicrous, and associate their surnames to foamy brown substances.

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:45:59pm

re: #66 Lidane

Reheat gay in microwave?

Jack Burton Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:46:06pm

re: #66 Lidane

Conveniently ignoring that eating pork and shellfish ceased to be a sin to Christians long before refrigeration was available to anyone living outside of very cold areas.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:47:21pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Don’t forget to mention to Fischer about all the great Soviet women snipers of WWII but of course he’ll probably ignore that just because they were Soviets.

The Russians usually kept women out of frontline infantry units, but did employ them as auxiliaries, such as the famous snipers, but also in combat positions that did not require them to directly engage in hand to hand combat, such as artillery, tankers, and anti-air batteries.

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:48:23pm

re: #66 Lidane

“Apparently, if you could refrigerate homosexuality like pork, it would no longer be a sin”

I believe argument is that the ban on pork (and the wearing of garments made of two kinds of cloths and eating shellfish, etc) were suspended by Jesus in the NT.

But AFAIK, the NT also comes down against homosexuality as well.

And St. Paul was probably a self-loathing, repressed homosecual as well, like a lot of those who are so vehemently against it.

Decatur Deb Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:49:37pm

re: #68 HappyWarrior

Reheat gay in microwave?

There’s a ‘coldcocking’ joke in there somewhere.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:51:46pm

re: #71 Sol Berdinowitz

“Apparently, if you could refrigerate homosexuality like pork, it would no longer be a sin”

I believe argument is that the ban on pork (and the wearing of garments made of two kinds of cloths and eating shellfish, etc) were suspended by Jesus in the NT.

But AFAIK, the NT also comes down against homosexuality as well.

And St. Paul was probably a self-loathing, repressed homosecual as well, like a lot of those who are so vehemently against it.

Don’t forget, the Bible was quite heavily edited over the last couple centuries, by a group with a clear agenda of their own. It could have been discarded as “inconvenient.”

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:54:55pm

re: #67 Sol Berdinowitz

The thing that earned Rick Santorum the rather unsavory neologism was the way he morally equated homosexuality to bestiality, pedophilia and wife-beating.

And to his mind, they are the same, because he sees them as abominations unto the Lord, and therefore, all things that we should outlaw as sinful and immoral.

He believes that we are all free to “obey God’s will”.

There is no arguing with people like that, all you can do is mock them and make them appear ludicrous, and associate their surnames to foamy brown substances.

To people like Rick, Homosexuality is the guys dressed up like women standing around the strange places in New Orleans. Homosexuality = Freak. Any one acting out or otherwise seeming mal-adjusted is a homosexual. God forbid, they look at themselves (yes you Rick)

They don’t realize that a lot of the people they know, that lead normal mundane middle-class lives are homosexuals. They refuse to see.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:54:58pm

Man, I hope this shakes things up and get people to pay attention:

Junior Seau’s family files wrongful death lawsuit against NFL

In a lawsuit that could have a significant impact on the NFL, the family of Junior Seau has filed a wrongful death lawsuit in California Superior Court against the league, according to the Associated Press.

Seau committed suicide last May at age 43. He was posthumously diagnosed with diachronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) last month. Seau shot himself in the chest.

The suit claims that through “acts or omissions,” the NFL hid the dangers of repetitive blows to the head. The AP reported the plaintiffs are Seau’s ex-wife Gina, his children Tyler, Sydney, Jake and Hunter, and Bette Hoffman, the trustee of Seau’s estate.

The Seau family is also suing helmet manufacturer Riddell Inc., claiming it was “negligent in their design, testing, assembly, manufacture, marketing, and engineering of the helmets,” according to the AP story.

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:55:57pm

re: #73 Kragar

Don’t forget, the Bible was quite heavily edited over the last couple centuries, by a group with a clear agenda of their own. It could have been discarded as “inconvenient.”

The Bible is a political document,IMHO.

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:57:32pm

re: #76 FemNaziBitch

The Bible is a political document,IMHO.

A political ideology disguised as a religion.

Sounds familiar.
/

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:58:19pm

re: #73 Kragar

Don’t forget, the Bible was quite heavily edited over the last couple centuries, by a group with a clear agenda of their own. It could have been discarded as “inconvenient.”

THE BIBLE (including the King James Tranlation) IS THE TRUE, COMPLETE AND INFALLIBLE, INALTERABLE WORD OF GOD IN ITS CONSUMMATE FORM!!! I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS SORT OF RELATIVISM!!!!!

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:58:52pm

re: #78 Sol Berdinowitz

Divinely inspired!

Petero1818 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:59:24pm

re: #73 Kragar

Don’t forget, the Bible was quite heavily edited over the last couple centuries, by ~~a group with a clear agenda of their own~~Smithfield Foods. It could have been discarded as “inconvenient.”

FTFY

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:59:38pm

re: #79 FemNaziBitch

Divinely inspired!

It took wingnut, bold and Italic to get that inspiration across!!!

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:00:56pm

One must Obey!

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:01:13pm

re: #81 Sol Berdinowitz

It took wingnut, bold and Italic to get that inspiration across!!!

I still haven’t learned how to do that.

Dr Lizardo Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:03:47pm

re: #71 Sol Berdinowitz

“Apparently, if you could refrigerate homosexuality like pork, it would no longer be a sin”

I believe argument is that the ban on pork (and the wearing of garments made of two kinds of cloths and eating shellfish, etc) were suspended by Jesus in the NT.

But AFAIK, the NT also comes down against homosexuality as well.

And St. Paul was probably a self-loathing, repressed homosecual as well, like a lot of those who are so vehemently against it.

Personally, I have a hard time imagining Jesus (a.s.) tucking into a bacon double-cheeseburger. But I could be wrong of course - after all, I’ve never met the fellow.

As to St. Paul; yeah, I could see that. When I read the Pauline epistles, I was thinking to myself, “That’s a whole supertanker full of projection and self-loathing old Paul’s got goin’ on.”

But as people have pointed out, there’s been a lot of edits to the New Testament over the centuries, not to mention the whole debate over the Q-Document.

engineer cat Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:05:13pm

is this the kind of “help” i get from one of my junior (9 years experience) programmers?? clone out a routine to four copies that only differ by one constant???

don’t they teach about cloning code in the computer science curriculum these days??

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:05:42pm

re: #83 FemNaziBitch

I still haven’t learned how to do that.

How to wingnut?

Ahem, lissen up, I’ll explain this only once (again)

[ wingnut ] insert rant [ /wingnut ]

omit spaces and you get

Obama eatz babies!!!ty!!1!!ty!

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:05:47pm

re: #84 Dr Lizardo

Personally, I have a hard time imagining Jesus (a.s.) tucking into a bacon double-cheeseburger. But I could be wrong of course - after all, I’ve never met the fellow.

As to St. Paul; yeah, I could see that. When I read the Pauline epistles, I was thinking to myself, “That’s a whole supertanker full of projection and self-loathing old Paul’s got goin’ on.”

But as people have pointed out, there’s been a lot of edits to the New Testament over the centuries, not to mention the whole debate over the Q-Document.

Yeah know, if my guru were sentenced to death for whatever reason, I don’t know if I’d spend the rest of my life spreading his word to the point of devoting every part of my being to it.

Just seems strange to me.

dragonath Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:05:50pm

Sometimes I think the Romans were right when I hear a pastor doing his thing on the radio.

Salem stations are always broadcasting across public and college stations on the radio dial. I mean, does the FCC even care?

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:06:09pm

re: #82 FemNaziBitch

One must Obey!

Cat comes and lies on napkin and then GAZES at reader.

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:06:53pm

re: #84 Dr Lizardo

Personally, I have a hard time imagining Jesus (a.s.) tucking into a bacon double-cheeseburger. But I could be wrong of course - after all, I’ve never met the fellow.

As to St. Paul; yeah, I could see that. When I read the Pauline epistles, I was thinking to myself, “That’s a whole supertanker full of projection and self-loathing old Paul’s got goin’ on.”

But as people have pointed out, there’s been a lot of edits to the New Testament over the centuries, not to mention the whole debate over the Q-Document.

So Paul was modern wingnut GOP before modern wingnut GOP came into style?

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:07:12pm

re: #86 Sol Berdinowitz

How to wingnut?

Ahem, liten up, I’ll explain this only once (again)

[ wingnut ] insert rant [ /wingnut ]

omit spaces and you get

homosexuals are freaks

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:07:33pm

re: #89 Feline Fearless Leader

Cat comes and lies on napkin and then GAZES at reader.

yup!

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:07:43pm

re: #84 Dr Lizardo

As to St. Paul; yeah, I could see that. When I read the Pauline epistles, I was thinking to myself, “That’s a whole supertanker full of projection and self-loathing old Paul’s got goin’ on.”

In one way, it does not diminish the power of his message, he was a flawed human being coming to terms with his own shortcomings in light of Jesus’ message as were many other early Christians.

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:07:54pm

re: #85 engineer cat

is this the kind of “help” i get from one of my junior (9 years experience) programmers?? clone out a routine to four copies that only differ by one constant???

don’t they teach about cloning code in the computer science curriculum these days??

Send for the code nun and her slide rule yardstick.

Petero1818 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:08:14pm

re: #86 Sol Berdinowitz

Wow. How come that is not included in the format shortcuts along with strikethrough, bold italics and quotes????

Outrage!

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:08:58pm

re: #95 Petero1818

Wow. How come that is not included in the format shortcuts along with strikethrough, bold italics and quotes????

It’s only for lizard initiates.

You have now moved deeper into the lair…

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:09:02pm

Biden Addresses Preppers: If It All Goes To Hell, You’d Rather Have A Shotgun

On Thursday, Biden took his pitch one step further, reaching out to the hardest of the hardcore gun owner, the doomsday prepper. Asked to square his support for an assault weapons ban with view by some that their firearms will protect them if the world goes to hell, Biden said the two things worked perfectly. If the chips are down, Biden said, you’d much rather have a shotgun.

“Guess what? A shotgun will keep you a lot safer — a double-barrel shotgun — than the assault weapon somebody’s hands who doesn’t know how to use it,” Biden, who owns two shotguns of his own, said during a Google+ hangout on gun violence. “You know, it’s harder to use an assault weapon and hit something than it is to use a shotgun, ok? So if you want to keep people away in an earthquake, buy some shotgun shells.”

Varek Raith Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:09:14pm

Fox News Edits Clinton Testimony To Claim She Never Addressed Benghazi Monitoring

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:09:55pm

re: #97 Kragar

Biden Addresses Preppers: If It All Goes To Hell, You’d Rather Have A Shotgun

Attack of the dangerously sensible!

100

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:09:59pm

Monster Snake Public Opening

101

engineer cat Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:10:25pm

re: #71 Sol Berdinowitz

I believe argument is that the ban on pork (and the wearing of garments made of two kinds of cloths and eating shellfish, etc) were suspended by Jesus in the NT

hypothetically perhaps in declaring a “new convenant”, and despite saying that “not one iota of the law shall be changed until all is fulfilled”. jesus certainly never mentioned any specific doctrine in the OT that was superseded, except that he was dead set against divorce

in practice this should mean that nothing in the OT has any longer any force of doctrine, and some christians, very few, will hew to this line. for the others, somebody has had the authority to pick and choose which things in the OT are still in force, but who this is and why they had the authority to do this, no one can answer

102

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:10:40pm

re: #94 Feline Fearless Leader

Send for the code nun and her slide rule yardstick.

[penguin][/penguin]
??

103

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:11:17pm

re: #99 erik_t

Attack of the dangerously sensible!

I own one pistol and one shotgun. I’m as prepped as I need to be.

104

engineer cat Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:11:27pm

re: #94 Feline Fearless Leader

Send for the code nun and her slide rule yardstick.

i have been appointed code nun, doncha know

105

Varek Raith Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:11:46pm

re: #97 Kragar

Biden Addresses Preppers: If It All Goes To Hell, You’d Rather Have A Shotgun

Heh@comment;

Duh. I’ve seen The Walking Dead.

106

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:12:22pm

re: #101 engineer cat

hypothetically perhaps in declaring a “new convenant”, and despite saying that “not one iota of the law shall be changed until all is fulfilled”. jesus certainly never mentioned any specific doctrine in the OT that was superseded, except that he was dead set against divorce

in practice this should mean that nothing in the OT has any longer any force of doctrine, and some christians, very few, will hew to this line. for the others, somebody has had the authority to pick and choose which things in the OT are still in force, but who this is and why they had the authority to do this, no one can answer

A lot of them can answer and claim that they have such authority. But whether it is in any way a valid authority is open.

107

Lidane Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:13:54pm

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

Not a joke: Birther queen thinks she can arrest Obama in Connecticut huff.to/10CcECQ
— Huffington Post (@HuffingtonPost) January 24, 2013

108

Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:14:11pm

re: #104 engineer cat

i have been appointed code nun, doncha know

ooo… then you have the specs on penguin font. Or is it just little modified Tuxi on either end wielding large mallets?

109

Varek Raith Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:14:28pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

*Gets popcorn*

110

Bubblehead II Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:14:35pm

re: #102 FemNaziBitch

[penguin][/penguin]
??

[ wingnut ] penguin [/wingnut]

penguin

111

Dr Lizardo Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:15:06pm

re: #90 Feline Fearless Leader

I think Paul had a guilty conscience for any number of things, and that was his way to atone for the bad things he felt he’d done.

An old story that’s been told a thousand times before, and will continue to be told as long as humans exist.

112

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:15:28pm

Why does the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs hate America?

Allowing Women On The Front Lines Could Reduce Sexual Assault, Joint Chiefs Chairman Says

DEMPSEY: We’ve had this ongoing issue with sexual harassment, sexual assault. I believe its because we’ve had separate classes of military personnel at some level. Now, its far more complicated than that. But when you have one part of the population that is designated as ‘warriors’ and one part that is designated as something else, that disparity begins to establish a psychology that — in some cases — led to that environment. I have to believe the more we treat people equally, the more likely they are to treat each other equally.

113

erik_t Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:15:39pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

Baby Jesus doesn’t love me enough for this attempt to actually happen.

114

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:16:09pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

I can’t wait to see her get taken down by the SS.

115

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:17:14pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

ability, but what about the means?

Can she walk thru a wall of Secret Service men?

116

Sionainn Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:17:32pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

What is she going to do when in four years Obama is out of office?

117

engineer cat Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:17:59pm

re: #108 Feline Fearless Leader

ooo… then you have the specs on penguin font. Or is it just little modified Tuxi on either end wielding large mallets?

this is the < code > tag:

i have put on my code spectacles and i will refactor the entire world into a recursive routine

118

Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:18:27pm

My column today: Reading some Fox News comment threads is “like reading Bull Connor’s diary.” thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/…
— Michael Tomasky (@mtomasky) January 24, 2013

119

Dr Lizardo Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:19:39pm

re: #93 Sol Berdinowitz

In one way, it does not diminish the power of his message, he was a flawed human being coming to terms with his own shortcomings in light of Jesus’ message as were many other early Christians.

That’s fair enough.

I always look at the story of Siddhartha Gotama, aka, Buddha.

A prince, pretty well-off I’d say, who ditches the wife and kid(s) because he’s feeling blue. Or some existential angst, depending on one’s point of view. Hardly a poster-boy for “family values”, running out on the spouse and kiddies like that. More like a deadbeat dad by modern standards.

But nonetheless, Buddhism remains one of the most sublime philosophies ever produced by men. So even though (like St. Paul), the messenger was flawed, the message is what matters.

120

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:20:59pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

Ya know, if Obama was really the sekrit kenyan-marxist et.al she says he is she’d be in the gulag years ago.

She is proof we are still free.

121

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:21:09pm

re: #115 FemNaziBitch

ability, but what about the means?

Can she walk thru a wall of Secret Service men?

“I AM THE AIR! I AM THE WIND!” - Orly Taitz

122

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:22:32pm

re: #121 Kragar

“I AM THE AIR! I AM THE WIND!” - Orly Taitz

“She’s a Bird! She’s a Plane! … .”

123

Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:23:34pm

The “Fox News comment thread” Michael Tomasky is referring to:

Fox News Commenters Respond to Whitney Houston’s Death With Deluge of Hatred and Racism

124

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:24:11pm

Lebanese couple defies Muslim divisions in a civil marriage

When Kholoud Sukkarieh and Nidal Darwish married in defiance of Lebanon’s ban on civil unions, they had no idea their initiative would attract so much support from fellow citizens — and even the president.

The entire process took nearly a year and was done in secret to sidestep political obstacles.

The couple, from different Muslim sects, recited their vows in an intimate ceremony late last year at Sukkarieh’s home with her brother as witness.
…
Lebanese authorities recognise civil marriages registered abroad, and it has become common for mixed-faith couples to marry in nearby Cyprus.

Rather than follow that route, however, Sukkarieh and Darwish decided to work with legal advisers attempting to create new jurisprudence, though there is no history of civil marriage in Lebanon.

Both had their sect, Shiite and Sunni Muslim, legally struck from their “sejel an-nufoos”, or family register, to be wed as as secular couple under an article dating from the 1936 French mandate that makes reference to civil unions.

“Civil marriage for us is not only a marriage issue, it’s actually a Lebanese issue because it lays the first stone of a non-sectarian regime,” Sukkarieh told AFP.

125

engineer cat Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:27:19pm

re: #120 FemNaziBitch

Ya know, if Obama was really the sekrit kenyan-marxist et.al she says he is she’d be in the gulag years ago.

She is proof we are still free.

good point

“in soviet union vee hav freedom of speech; in america you hav freedom after speech”

126

BongCrodny Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:27:28pm

re: #121 Kragar

“I AM THE AIR! I AM THE WIND!” - Orly Taitz

Orly to bed and Orly to rise makes a woman nuts.

127

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:28:22pm

Kerry Calls GOP Senator Out For Missing Benghazi Briefing

At his secretary of state confirmation hearing Thursday, Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) called out Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) for missing a classified briefing on the deadly attacks in Benghazi, Libya.

Johnson pressed Kerry to commit to finding out what, exactly, happened on Sept. 11, 2012 at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

“Well, there was a briefing with tapes, which we all saw, those of us who went to it, which made it crystal clear,” Kerry said. “We sat for several hours with our intel folks, who described to us precisely what we were seeing. We saw the events unfold. We had a very complete and detailed description.”

128

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:34:37pm

The thread, I killed it.

129

freetoken Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:35:39pm

re: #128 Kragar

Darth Kragar.

130

Charles Johnson Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:35:47pm

re: #128 Kragar

The thread, I killed it.

See how you are?

131

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:36:27pm

re: #130 Charles Johnson

See how you are?

IT HAS RISEN!

I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA! THE BEGINNING AND THE END!

132

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:36:47pm

re: #129 freetoken

Darth Kragar.

Sith are a bunch of wussies.

133

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:38:19pm

re: #129 freetoken

Darth Kragar.

Kill all of the ~~young~~lizardlings, you did.

134

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:40:50pm

re: #133 The Force Ghost of a Flea

Kill all of the ~~young~~lizardlings, you did.

See, now that was just a waste of resources. It would have been better to recruit them while they were young and turn them.

The Dark side of the Force is nothing compared to the glories of the Chaos Gods.

135

Mattand Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:41:04pm

re: #107 Lidane

From the Too Much Time on Her Hands files:

I so hope she gives the Secret Service an excuse to taser her.

136

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:41:46pm

Another state climbs on the crazy train:

Unconstitutional Pennsylvania Bill Aims To Make Federal Gun Enforcement A Felony

137

Varek Raith Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:42:30pm

Would passing a law making stupidity a felony be Constitutional?
/

138

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:44:15pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Would passing a law making stupidity a felony be Constitutional?
/

Why do you hate America?

139

freetoken Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:44:31pm

re: #136 Kragar

Perhaps, when the US is long gone and some future historian will write a “Rise and Fall of the US” tome, one of the greatest ironies will be that a political party whose beginnings were built on the assertion that national, “federal”, actions were required (initially for building inter-state railroads, btw) for the benefit of all, would eventually turn against the concept of the US having a central government.

140

jaunte Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:46:02pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Gohmert will secede.

141

HappyWarrior Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:46:16pm

Laws to make the enforcement of the law a crime? Egads,

142

Kragar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:46:38pm

re: #139 freetoken

Perhaps, when the US is long gone and some future historian will write a “Rise and Fall of the US” tome, one of the greatest ironies will be that a political party whose beginnings were built on the assertion that national, “federal”, actions were required (initially for building inter-state railroads, btw) for the benefit of all, would eventually turn against the concept of the US having a central government.

Roads are a tool of marxist oppression limiting my freedom to drive where I want. I’ve got a 4 wheel drive SUV and I can drive where I want to like Jesus intended!
///

143

Mattand Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:47:05pm

re: #136 Kragar

Another state climbs on the crazy train:

Unconstitutional Pennsylvania Bill Aims To Make Federal Gun Enforcement A Felony

The next time someone from PA looks down their nose at me because I’m from NJ, I’m going to trot this out. Just keep your craziness across the river, please.

144

Varek Raith Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:47:12pm

Lol.

jgthinker Dan Sutton • 4 hours ago
Fox “slanted right”? Is that “slanted” as in Niagara Falls is “slanted” down?

145

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:49:27pm

blechhh

1st daytime trying to sleep after transitioning to take my turn working the overnight shifts

My body clock is going to be SCREWED for at least a week!!!

146

freetoken Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:51:08pm

Who said the Catholic Church is outdated?

Vatican defends pope’s Twitter account despite attacks

The Vatican on Thursday (Jan. 24) defended the pope’s choice to open a Twitter account even if it exposes him to insults and online abuse.

“Twitter is a secular reality …

“Twitter is a secular reality” - Even Aquinas could never have expected that one.

That phrase is so good I think Twitter ought to officially adopt it.

147

HoosierHoops Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:51:08pm

re: #138 Kragar

Why do you hate America?

I can only dream of a day when all incoming Congresspeople would have to take a civics test before taking office..
’ dude.. you think that’s bad? it took our dip shit congressman 5 times to pass his test. ’ Really? Yeah man.. 5 times to pass a high school civics test.’

148

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:53:16pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

I can only dream of a day when all incoming Congresspeople would have to take a civics test before ~~taking~~ RUNNING FOR office

ftfy

149

HoosierHoops Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:54:07pm

re: #145 sattv4u2

blechhh

1st daytime trying to sleep after transitioning to take my turn working the overnight shifts

My body clock is going to be SCREWED for at least a week!!!

I feel ya Brother..Tough stuff to adapt to..I’ve worked so many shifts..I think split shifts can be killer..
Good luck

150

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:55:34pm

re: #149 HoosierHoops

I feel ya Brother..Tough stuff to adapt to..I’ve worked so many shifts..I think split shifts can be killer..
Good luck

Used to be able to adapt within a couple of days, at most

Now, at my age, not so much!

151

EPR-radar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:55:59pm

re: #146 freetoken

Who said the Catholic Church is outdated?

Vatican defends pope’s Twitter account despite attacks

“Twitter is a secular reality” - Even Aquinas could never have expected that one.

That phrase is so good I think Twitter ought to officially adopt it.

There is something about the kind of language that comes up in official RCC usage that appeals to me as language per se. My favorite examples are:

“invincible ignorance”

and

Describing Modernism (in this context, the notion that Church doctrine can legitimately change over time) as “the synthesis of all heresies”

152

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:57:29pm

re: #145 sattv4u2

blechhh

1st daytime trying to sleep after transitioning to take my turn working the overnight shifts

My body clock is going to be SCREWED for at least a week!!!

Welcome to my world.

153

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:58:19pm

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

Welcome to my world.

“welcome” to it

I’ve been “in it” for over 30 years now!!

154

Bubblehead II Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:58:54pm

Well I see we have a new “war” on our hands.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the

WAR ON GUNS!!!!!

Courtesy of, you guessed it, Fox News.

155

freetoken Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:00:29pm

This PR caught my eye, in light of the “fatso” imbroglio the other day:

‘Connection error’ in the brains of anorexics

RUB researchers find altered connectivity in the brain network for body perception. The weaker the connection, the greater the misjudgement of body shape

When people see pictures of bodies, a whole range of brain regions are active. This network is altered in women with anorexia nervosa. In a functional magnetic resonance imaging study, two regions that are important for the processing of body images were functionally more weakly connected in anorexic women than in healthy women. The stronger this “connection error” was, the more overweight the respondents considered themselves. “These alterations in the brain could explain why women with anorexia perceive themselves as fatter, even though they are objectively underweight” says Prof. Dr. Boris Suchan of the Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience at the Ruhr-Universität. Together with Prof. Dr. Dietrich Grönemeyer (University of Witten-Herdecke), Prof. Dr. Silja Vocks (University of Osnabrück) and other colleagues, the Bochum researchers report in the journal Behavioural Brain Research.

[…]

156

HoosierHoops Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:00:45pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

Used to be able to adapt within a couple of days, at most

Now, at my age, not so much!

Man the list is long for all of us here.. I’d say when we worked 80 straight. The shift was 3:00am to 3:30pm. It was brutal.

157

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:01:00pm

I having trouble understanding this bad karma collector.

Help.

158

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:01:18pm

re: #154 Bubblehead II

Well I see we have a new “war” on our hands.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the

Courtesy of, you guessed it, Fox News.

So, the War on Yoga is over?

159

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:04:22pm

re: #158 FemNaziBitch

So, the War on Yoga is over?

We have a war on Yogurt!?!?
Image: Yogurt.jpg
/

160

makeitstop Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:09:10pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

I can only dream of a day when all incoming Congresspeople would have to take a civics test before taking office..

Throw in an IQ test and psych workup and I think we got us a deal.

161

EPR-radar Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:11:48pm

re: #160 makeitstop

Throw in an IQ test and psych workup and I think we got us a deal.

It is better to just test for subject matter knowledge of civics than get involved in the IQ test snake pit.

Subject matter testing could also be expanded to include committee assignments (e.g., you’d need to pass some simple general science test to sit on the science committee etc.)

162

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:11:58pm

re: #160 makeitstop

Throw in an IQ test and psych workup and I think we got us a deal.

What, no bikini runway walk !?!?!
/

163

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:13:19pm

re: #162 sattv4u2

What, no bikini runway walk !?!?!
/

only for females from Alaska.

164

sattv4u2 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:15:06pm

re: #163 FemNaziBitch

only for females from Alaska.

I was thinking more if Chris Christie wanted a stab at congress!!

165

FemNaziBitch Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:17:26pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Oh

I was thinking more if Chris Christie wanted a stab at congress!!

Mind bleach warning!!!

166

engineer cat Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:25:29pm

re: #136 Kragar

Another state climbs on the crazy train:

Unconstitutional Pennsylvania Bill Aims To Make Federal Gun Enforcement A Felony

that there’s nullification, ain’t it?

sumboddy call gineral jackson!

167

Jolo5309 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:27:57pm

re: #36 wrenchwench

You can say that again.

As if I needed another reason to treat the Roman Catholic church with disgust

168

Jolo5309 Thu, Jan 24, 2013 2:31:53pm

re: #103 Kragar

I own one pistol and one shotgun. I’m as prepped as I need to be.

I am trying to convince my wife I really need a boar spear. They are a hundred bucks at Cabela’s

169

BeenHereAwhile Thu, Jan 24, 2013 4:41:12pm

re: #75 Kragar

Man, I hope this shakes things up and get people to pay attention:

Junior Seau’s family files wrongful death lawsuit against NFL

CTE is going to be a even bigger problem among returning Iraq & Afghan vets who survived IEDs:

Carl Prines description of personally surviving 4 IED explosions:

Carl Prine: _Line Of Departure_ One Shot One Kill:
May 17, 2012

It blew to the right, 2 o’clock from the gun, and I’d just taken out the plug to listen to the patrol leader below, twisting the turret and me away from the steel shavings rising like black fireflies from the shoulder of Route Michigan.

Hours later I held a throbbing skull and my left ear felt like someone jabbed a broken chopstick through the drum.

It’s hard to explain the whistle that sang to the back of my soul for weeks after that, but it never varied in pitch. When I closed my eyes and tried to picture it, I saw the whine as a sound that formed into a thin red stream, kind of like water.

*****
It blew at 12 o’clock from the back of my head. The lead truck tripped the pressure plate and we swerved hard left to miss the wreck as the vehicle armor came unzipped just outside Ramadi.

The migraine settled in like fog on a sandstone bank, and I tried to burn it out with Camels I cribbed from the radioman.

Up all night, we ran out of cigarettes.

I didn’t run out of headache.

*****

It blew at 1 o’clock from the gun near Mudiq, a heaving pillar of smoke and rock that fell 50 meters away, pelting those of us in the turrets.

Had Muj not gotten jittery he might’ve gotten a kill.

All I got was another migraine.

*****

It blew at 11 o’clock from my face and the iron, dust and flesh inside a truck that wasn’t really in Khalidiya anymore gnawed through me, as if the sharp nails of a ghost’s claw had to stroke my brain, caress the back of my eyeballs, tickle my throat.

The migraines were so bad that night that I staggered behind a shitter and puked the dizziness out.

You’d do it, too. And don’t tell me that you’d go to Doc because he’d take you off the missions and everyone in the TOC will call you a malingerer or, worse, a coward.

[…]Seau’s family continues to debate whether they also should give his brain to neuroscientists, a problem caused mostly by the fact Junior didn’t leave a note explaining this.

As much as I love them, my family isn’t going to have to make that call. Consider this my suicide letter because I’m going to kill myself.

I haven’t had symptoms in four years. […] But if I slump into dark depression or the migraines return, I lose concentration or start to notice profound changes in the many ways I walk, dream and remember, I’m going to let the .38 carve out my lungs and snap the spine. No matter how twitchy that finger gets or how many times I’ve got to tug the trigger, I’m making a hole no one crawls out of.

I’m not going to be the youngest guy in the nursing home, soaked in his own piss and mumbling at everyone he thinks he might recognize, convinced that he really likes orange Jello while his spoon shakes it all over his lap.

I’m proudly going to be a dozen slices of brain on a slide under a forensic pathologist’s microscope.

Then I’m going to be a report that’s sent in the mail to a VA hospital or whichever Center of Excellence finally decides that buzzwords like “resilience,” a fistful of anti-psychotic pills and a dozen death-by-PowerPoint meetings really have nothing to do with brain science or treating the thousands of soldiers and Marines silently suffering from an anguish they’ll never feel.

Our politicians and generals might never confront in any meaningful way the legacy of these wars just as they really shouldn’t be tied to my obscure fate, one way or the other.

But they’re still going to own that report.

Spy Mode Auto

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