Israeli Military Starts Ground Operations in Gaza

War
Middle East • Views: 52,669

In the other big news of the day, the expected Israeli ground invasion of Gaza has begun.

Israel sent ground forces into the Gaza Strip in a military offensive intended to stop the barrage of missiles fired by Hamas and other Palestinian militants, raising the stakes of the 10-day-old conflict after an Egyptian peace plan was spurned.

[…]

“The prime minister and defense minister have instructed the Israel Defense Forces to begin a ground operation tonight to destroy the terror tunnels dug from the Gaza Strip into Israeli territory,” Netanyahu’s office said in a text message.

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409 comments
1 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 1:18:01pm

Israeli Army spokesman says troops in ‘several areas’ of the Gaza Strip, operation involving ‘infantry, artillery, tanks’ and others - @glcarlstrom
see original on twitter.com

2 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 1:18:13pm

You’ve got to wonder what Obama must be up to with all these distractions going on.
///

3 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 1:19:46pm

If they ever have hopes of stopping the rocket attacks, a full-scale occupation of Gaza will be necessary. I don’t think even Netanyahu has the nerve (or insanity) for that.

4 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 1:20:11pm

Do you suppose this might have anything to do with why Ayman Mohyeldin was pulled out by MSNBC?

5 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 1:20:56pm
6 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 1:21:24pm
7 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 1:21:34pm
8 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 17, 2014 1:22:41pm

What a day.

:-(

9 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 1:23:50pm

And the loonies are out to play, I see.

*headdesk*

10 aagcobb  Jul 17, 2014 1:25:18pm

re: #2 Kragar

You’ve got to wonder what Obama must be up to with all these distractions going on.
///

I’m starting to get confused about which crisis was started for the purpose of distracting from the other crises. I’m sure Fox News will be able to explain it all.

11 Bulworth  Jul 17, 2014 1:25:20pm

re:
#5

NSA, too.

12 Ian G.  Jul 17, 2014 1:26:37pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Yes, it COULD be. It could also be the work of aliens from the planet Zimtok-5, demonstrating their fearsome weaponry as the prepare to enslave earth.

13 Skip Intro  Jul 17, 2014 1:26:40pm

From Jim Wright’s (Stonekettle Station) Facebook page:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on my entire life. My entire life. There’s NEVER been a week in my entire life that these stupid people haven’t been in the news killing each other. They’ve been killing each other for as long as I can remember - and a hell of a lot longer than that. Jehovah gave the land to the Jews. Jesus gave it to the Christians. Allah gave it to the Arabs. Everybody’s God is buried there or has some ancient wrecked temple there or one of their various Holy Joes did a rain-dance and spoke some mumbo jumbo there or consecrated a shiny rock or a magic shrub or had some divine life changing experience there. Both sides are guilty of atrocities. Both sides are right. Both sides are wrong. Israelis kill Palestinian kids. Palestinians kill Israeli kids. The Israelis started it. The Palestinians started it. The Jews are the victims. The Muslims are the victims. It’s all the Israeli’s fault. It’s all the Palestinians fault. On and on, round and round, eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, life for a life and the fuck all I care at this point.

America has this idiotic naive idea that we’re somehow going to broker some kind of something something magic peace complete with flying bunnies and rainbows. We’ve got a road map and everything. Every couple of years we even get them to stop killing each other for maybe five minutes and Americans all grin at each other and say, see? THIS time it’ll be different and while we’re handing out the cigars and the peace medals, Hamas lobs a rocket into a Kibbutz daycare center or a bunch of radical Zionists dust off their Mogen Davids and fire up their bulldozers and they’re all back to killing each other before the ink is dry on the peace accord. These people and their bullshit are the fundamental cause behind 90% of the problems in the Middle East, damned near everything ultimately traces back to this conflict and our constant meddling in it.

14 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 1:27:14pm
15 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 1:27:19pm

re: #9 Dr Lizardo

And the loonies are out to play, I see.

*headdesk*

Alex Jones is likely orgasming all over his keyboard.

16 JackBurton  Jul 17, 2014 1:28:03pm

It’s the old “lose by winning” strategy. An Israeli classic.

17 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 1:28:13pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Do you suppose this might have anything to do with why Ayman Mohyeldin was pulled out by MSNBC?

Possibly, for his own safety. Mohyeldin’s father is Egyptian, his mother Palestinian.

18 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 1:29:41pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Called it.

19 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 1:29:53pm

re: #15 Aunty Entity Dragon

Heh.

Days like this are when normal people think, “Man, what a shitty day.”

Alex Jones thinks, “Man, I’m glad I got up this morning! Today’s gonna be f***ing great!!”

20 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 1:31:12pm

Hamas military wing al-Qassam brigades in text message: ‘We’ve been eagerly awaiting this ground operation to teach the Israelis a lesson’ - @sangwonyoon
see original on twitter.com

21 Ian G.  Jul 17, 2014 1:31:31pm

Has anyone asked the 9/11 truthers yet if they think the shoot-down of the jetliner was a way to distract from Building 7?

22 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 1:31:55pm
23 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Jul 17, 2014 1:34:19pm

re: #10 aagcobb

I’m starting to get confused about which crisis was started for the purpose of distracting from the other crises. I’m sure Fox News will be able to explain it all.

All these crises were started to distract us from something that they’ve been so successful at distracting us from that we don’t even know what it was.

24 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 1:34:26pm

Full text of Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu’s statement on Gaza ground operation - @haaretzcom
read more on haaretz.com

25 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 1:34:46pm

re: #13 Skip Intro

I can definitely relate to that. You can claim magical balance faerie if you like. I have reached the “Fuck it, you can all kill each other off for all I care” point of interest.

I used to be a die hard Israel supporter, and especially during the first intifada. Lately, the wildly disproportionate body counts of Palestinian civilians have cooled my enthusiasm, to say nothing of the genocidal comments coming from Israelis on social media. At the same time, those Palestinians, possibly including the parents of those four children killed by deliberately directed Israeli artillery fire, voted for Hamas wack jobs.

Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown The Middle East.

26 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 1:34:48pm
27 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 17, 2014 1:35:26pm

re: #23 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

All these crises were started to distract us from something that they’ve been so successful at distracting us from that we don’t even know what it was.

The total dismantling of the Constitution and instituting the Secularist/Communist/Athiest/Sharia state

28 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 1:35:27pm

re: #23 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

All these crises were started to distract us from something that they’ve been so successful at distracting us from that we don’t even know what it was.

NIRTH SIRTIFFIKIT!!

29 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 1:35:42pm

The Prime Minister’s Office released a statement on the ground incursion that was launched Thursday night in the Gaza Strip:

“The prime minister and the defense minister have ordered the IDF to begin a ground operation in order to damage the underground terror tunnels constructed in Gaza leading into Israeli territory.

“Such a tunnel was used earlier this morning by Hamas terrorists to enter Israeli territory, with intent to case massive harm to Israeli civilians.

“The IDF successfully thwarted this attempt at terrorism as well. The prime minister and the defense minister have ordered the IDF to make preparations for expanding the ground operation. The order to act tonight has been approved by the security cabinet, after Israel agreed to the Egyptian cease-fire proposal which Hamas rejected and proceeded to fire rockets at Israel. Nor did Hamas uphold the humanitarian cease-fire initiated by the UN, continuing to fire at Israel instead.

“In light of Hamas’ unending criminal attacks, and its dangerous incursions into Israeli territory, Israel is forced to defend its citizens. Operation Protective Edge will continue until it achieves its objective - to restore quiet and safety to Israelis for a long time to come, while significantly harming the infrastructure of Hamas and other terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip.”

haaretz.com

30 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 17, 2014 1:36:24pm
31 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 1:36:58pm

Oh, pleez retweet.

32 Ian G.  Jul 17, 2014 1:38:21pm

re: #25 Aunty Entity Dragon

Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown The Middle East.

I’m not sure that there’s anything that makes me more comfortable in my atheism than reading the news from the Middle East every day. Jew vs. Muslim, Christian vs. Shia, Druze vs. Shia, Sunni vs. Alawite, Sunni vs. Shia, and on and on and on it goes. Such a fucking pointless waste of life. You’re all human beings, just learn to live and let live.

33 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 1:38:24pm
34 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 1:39:26pm

re: #25 Aunty Entity Dragon

I can definitely relate to that. You can claim magical balance faerie if you like. I have reached the “Fuck it, you can all kill each other off for all I care” point of interest.

It’s honestly just not my problem. The US has dicked around there for decades to no avail. Sometimes you need to recognize that you’re throwing good money after bad.

I don’t care if the people on one side are great, and the people on the other side are shitty, or vice versa. No matter how good or bad they both are, we still try to meddle and we still don’t make anything better.

So… let’s not try to meddle anymore. It’s not doing a damned bit of good, no matter how awesome and super-‘Murrica it makes us feel in our dangly bits.

35 sagehen  Jul 17, 2014 1:40:05pm

re: #2 Kragar

You’ve got to wonder what Obama must be up to with all these distractions going on.
///

According to “From Building Management, To All Residents” note in my elevator, he’s attending a fundraiser on the next block over, sometime between now and 8pm.

36 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 1:41:34pm

re: #35 sagehen

According to “From Building Management, To All Residents” note in my elevator, he’s attending a fundraiser on the next block over, sometime between now and 8pm.

ITS DIABOLICAL!

37 Bulworth  Jul 17, 2014 1:42:14pm

Hmmm. Jim Geraghty and Laura Ingraham are derping again. Totally surprised.

38 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 1:42:31pm

re: #34 Testy Toad T

It’s honestly just not my problem. The US has dicked around there for decades to no avail. Sometimes you need to recognize that you’re throwing good money after bad.

I don’t care if the people on one side are great, and the people on the other side are shitty, or vice versa. No matter how good or bad they both are, we still try to meddle and we still don’t make anything better.

So… let’s not try to meddle anymore. It’s not doing a damned bit of good, no matter how awesome and super-‘Murrica it makes us feel in our dangly bits.

We have tried to mediate this for over 40 years. Stick a damned fork in it. It’s done. Walk away.

While we are at it, no more US taxpayer supported shooty things for anybody over there…Israeli, Saudi, whoever.

39 De Kolta Chair  Jul 17, 2014 1:43:17pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

David Harris-Gershon @David_EHG

To those in #Gaza, from a US Jew: I’m so sorry.
To Netanyahu: this war of choice is inimical & a miserable tragedy.
To Hamas: go to hell.

4:33 PM - 17 Jul 2014

To Mom: I’ll be there on Saturday. I promise.

//

40 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 1:44:09pm
41 bratwurst  Jul 17, 2014 1:44:09pm

A bit interesting to note that CNN’s midday female anchor (Brooke Baldwin) had her show pre-empted for the breaking news “A-Team” lead by Anderson Cooper, but Jake Tapper got to go ahead and anchor his hour as scheduled.

Settling aside sexism for a moment, are there people who REALLY consider Tapper to be a news heavyweight?

42 JackBurton  Jul 17, 2014 1:45:21pm

re: #34 Testy Toad T

Unfortunately, it’s a bit of your problem because we send $4 billion in taxpayer-funded military equipment to one side each year. It is now being dropped on Gaza.

43 Bulworth  Jul 17, 2014 1:45:45pm

This day leaves me no choice:

[Burn After Reading — last lines]

CIA Superior: What did we learn, Palmer?

CIA Officer: I don’t know, sir.

CIA Superior: I don’t fuckin’ know either. I guess we learned not to do it again.

CIA Officer: Yes, sir.

CIA Superior: I’m fucked if I know what we did.

CIA Officer: Yes, sir, it’s, uh, hard to say

CIA Superior: Jesus Fucking Christ.

44 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 1:46:29pm

re: #24 Justanotherhuman

Full text of Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu’s statement on Gaza ground operation - @haaretzcom
read more on haaretz.com

I’ve been skeptical about what military objective could be achieved by a ground incursion but it appears last night’s tunnel attempt was the last straw. I guess the Israelis need to go over and clear out the tunnels and other infrastructure along the fence line. I guess this is going to have to happen every couple years or so.

45 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 1:47:18pm

re: #34 Testy Toad T

And honestly, I’ve stayed 100% away from commenting about anything even remotely related to Israel/Palestine ever since I joined LGF. Saying “aww, fuckit, there’s nothing we can do” has often felt to me about as fashionable a statement as “let’s not invade Iraq” circa 2004. Not just an unpopular opinion, but one that is anathema, beneath polite discourse, against all common sense and decency.

Well, whatever. It’s a dumb fucking war for everybody, and it’s a dumb fucking war for us, too. There’s a lot of lower hanging fruit in this world where my tax dollars can go and can actually improve the lives of people.

It sucks. I wish it were better. But wishes and dollars don’t equal results.

46 Eventual Carrion  Jul 17, 2014 1:47:48pm

re: #12 Ian G.

Yes, it COULD be. It could also be the work of aliens from the planet Zimtok-5, demonstrating their fearsome weaponry as the prepare to enslave earth.

*whispers* Who else have you told about this?

47 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 1:48:14pm

And the UN Security Council is holding an emergency meeting tomorrow on Ukraine at 3 pm.

UK Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond says he believes British nationals were on board crashed Malaysia flight in Ukraine - @BBCNews
see original on twitter.com

48 Gus  Jul 17, 2014 1:50:15pm
49 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 1:50:58pm
50 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 1:51:09pm

re: #42 JackBurton

Unfortunately, it’s a bit of your problem because we send $4 billion in taxpayer-funded military equipment to one side each year. It is now being dropped on Gaza.

Time to end that, as far as I am concerned. Israel builds her own advanced tanks, missiles and aircraft. Turkey is the only nearby peer competitor in the region with similar military ca[ability. She doesn’t need our help, and we need our money to build things here.

51 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 1:51:47pm
52 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 1:52:48pm

re: #34 Testy Toad T

It’s honestly just not my problem. The US has dicked around there for decades to no avail. Sometimes you need to recognize that you’re throwing good money after bad.

I don’t care if the people on one side are great, and the people on the other side are shitty, or vice versa. No matter how good or bad they both are, we still try to meddle and we still don’t make anything better.

So… let’s not try to meddle anymore. It’s not doing a damned bit of good, no matter how awesome and super-‘Murrica it makes us feel in our dangly bits.

I’d like to think it’s as simple as supporting the only Democracy in the region, but it’s not is it?

53 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 1:53:36pm

re: #47 Justanotherhuman

And the UN Security Council is holding an emergency meeting tomorrow on Ukraine at 3 pm.

UK Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond says he believes British nationals were on board crashed Malaysia flight in Ukraine - @BBCNews
see original on twitter.com

I’m thinking Russia’s gonna be in the hot seat tomorrow.

54 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 1:57:03pm

In regard to the Jerusalem issue:

I am inclined to act like a Parent or Pre-school teacher. If all parties cannot play nice with the toy, The toy is taken away and NO ONE gets to play with it.

I’ve thought about creating a situation similar to the DMZ win N/S Korea, but I’m not smart enough to think that thru.

Make the whole area a World Historical Site —overseen by the UN, Preserve it for future generations?

I honestly don’t know any other answer than to take away the toy.

55 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 17, 2014 1:57:42pm

re: #53 Dr Lizardo

I’m thinking Russia’s gonna be in the hot seat tomorrow.

Fucking with international air routes is a serious, serious matter…even Putin is aware of the damage this is going to do to his policies, there is very little he can do to gloss it over.

56 Aqua Obama  Jul 17, 2014 1:59:07pm

What!?

57 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 1:59:19pm

re: #52 FemNaziBitch

I’d like to think it’s as simple as supporting the only Democracy in the region, but it’s not is it?

Quite frankly, it’s not 1948 anymore. I don’t know why that particular democracy needs our help dramatically any more than any other. If shit gets really bad and tanks start rolling, I’m sure we can get a carrier out there rapidly and start staving in some heads. That’s what we do with, oh, every other democracy in every other region that ever faces any other existential peril.

Four billion-with-a-B dollars, for God’s sake, and all it’s for is blowing each other up. I’d rather go feed the hungry in Tanzania or something.

58 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 1:59:23pm

re: #52 FemNaziBitch

I’d like to think it’s as simple as supporting the only Democracy in the region, but it’s not is it?

That is what I used to think…but democacy doesn’t cover the deliberate disenfranchisement of millions of people who are not allowed to have their own country, but neither are allowed to participate in yours. Then, you have the seizure of Arab lands (both Christian and Muslim) and homes without recompense.

It’s a form of apartheid, and it cannot last forever. The longer this goes, the worse off both sides are. Neither side seems willing to actually do something useful to alter the status quo for the better…and toxic religious and ethnic bigotry on both sides has everything to do with it. (If you want to weep for the future of humanity, read some of the twitter comments coming from attactive, fresh faced Israeli teens. You would swear they were written by fucking Goebbels. The stuff coming from the Arab teens around the area manages to be as bad if not worse)

59 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 1:59:52pm

re: #53 Dr Lizardo

I’m thinking Russia’s gonna be in the hot seat tomorrow.

Russia will deny it all and dare anbody to say differently.

60 brennant  Jul 17, 2014 2:00:14pm

re: #59 Aunty Entity Dragon

Russia will deny it all and dare anbody to say differently.

THIS.

61 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:00:28pm

re: #55 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Fucking with international air routes is a serious, serious matter…even Putin is aware of the damage this is going to do to his policies, there is very little he can do to gloss it over.

IMO, the best thing Putin can do at this point is cut these clowns loose. Just say, “Screw ‘em”; granted, that won’t go down well with the hardcore nationalist types, but sometimes you just gotta know when to cut your losses.

And these Novorossiya separatists have just left Putin with a crate of eggs on his face. I’m sure he’s not going to like that. Not one damned bit.

62 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:01:07pm

re: #56 Aqua Obama

@Reuters
#BREAKING: Russia’s Putin says Kiev bears responsibility for crash of passenger plane because it was brought down in Ukraine: RIA

It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for ‘em.

[Putin responsible for Tomahawk up own ass because he happened to be sitting in his dacha at the time]

63 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:01:16pm

re: #56 Aqua Obama

[Embedded content]

What!?

Well, then…..Putin’s an even bigger shitweasel than I thought.

What a colossal prick.

64 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 17, 2014 2:02:29pm

re: #61 Dr Lizardo

This is not about human rights or politics or other such irrelevant nonsense that people talk about but ultimately ignore,

This event is about interfering with international business. Airline business. Fucking with that stuff gets you in a lot of trouble with all the wrong people.

65 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 2:02:47pm

Just one of them days, eh?

And I sure as hell hope this isn’t one of those “things happen in threes” times.

Thoughts go out to all the innocents caught up in man’s ugly ways.

Sigh.

66 Bulworth  Jul 17, 2014 2:03:03pm

Hurr hurr Americans shot out of sky and Obummer is at fundraiser and Biden at Netroots!!!11 Just like 9-11-12!!!1

67 Bulworth  Jul 17, 2014 2:03:53pm

So the Malaysian flight shot down over the Ukraine was full of Americans, according to our wingnut media.

68 Aqua Obama  Jul 17, 2014 2:04:52pm

re: #63 Dr Lizardo

Well, then…..Putin’s an even bigger shitweasel than I thought.

What a colossal prick.

If it’s Ukraine’s responsibility, why is Russia trying to obtain the black box? ferchrissakes

69 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:05:02pm

re: #64 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

This is not about human rights or politics or other such irrelevant nonsense that people talk about but ultimately ignore,

This event is about interfering with international business. Airline business. Fucking with that stuff gets you in a lot of trouble with all the wrong people.

Very true. Maybe this will convince the EU to put the hammer down on the Russians when it comes to sanctions, despite the obvious pain it would cause.

Enough is enough.

70 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 17, 2014 2:06:11pm

re: #54 FemNaziBitch

In regard to the Jerusalem issue:

I am inclined to act like a Parent or Pre-school teacher. If all parties cannot play nice with the toy, The toy is taken away and NO ONE gets to play with it.

I’ve thought about creating a situation similar to the DMZ win N/S Korea, but I’m not smart enough to think that thru.

Make the whole area a World Historical Site —overseen by the UN, Preserve it for future generations?

I honestly don’t know any other answer than to take away the toy.

Wasn’t that Clancy’s solution in _Sum Of All Fears_? Turned it over to a board of holy men representing all three religions.* And then arranged for them to get Swiss mercenaries as their neutral policing force.

* - I presume this would get messy in reality since it’s not really three groups. He sort of ignored the splintered reality of the various sects.

71 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:06:46pm

re: #68 Aqua Obama

If it’s Ukraine’s responsibility, why is Russia trying to obtain the black box? ferchrissakes

The same reason some cops turn off their personal cameras just before random civilian X gets the daylights kicked out of him/her.

72 Bulworth  Jul 17, 2014 2:06:52pm

On the positive side, on the East Coast it’s now after 5 pm. Day went by fast. AND THERES NO BASEBALL TONIGHT, THANKS BUD SELIG!!!!!!!

73 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:07:33pm

re: #70 Feline Fearless Leader

Clancy gloss over a few ////minor details////?

SURELY YOU JEST.

74 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 2:08:10pm
75 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 17, 2014 2:08:22pm

re: #67 Bulworth

So the Malaysian flight shot down over the Ukraine was full of Americans, according to our wingnut media.

If there had been no American citizens on the flight the US media will have dropped covering it at all by Saturday.
(no sarcasm)

76 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 17, 2014 2:08:37pm
77 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:08:58pm

re: #73 Testy Toad T

Clancy gloss over a few ////minor details////?

SURELY YOU JEST.

I used to love Tom Clancy novels back in the 80’s. I didn’t realize until much later just what a wingnut he really was.

78 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 2:09:19pm

re: #70 Feline Fearless Leader

Wasn’t that Clancy’s solution in _Sum Of All Fears_? Turned it over to a board of holy men representing all three religions.* And then arranged for them to get Swiss mercenaries as their neutral policing force.

* - I presume this would get messy in reality since it’s not really three groups. He sort of ignored the splintered reality of the various sects.

It has to be a secular solution if it’s going to work. The fight is about real estate and religion. Take away the constants and let the variables fall where they may.

79 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 2:10:11pm

re: #77 Aunty Entity Dragon

I used to love Tom Clancy novels back in the 80’s. I didn’t realize until much later just what a wingnut he really was.

Hunt for Red October was still a really awesome movie.

80 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 2:10:11pm

re: #67 Bulworth

So the Malaysian flight shot down over the Ukraine was full of Americans, according to our wingnut media.

Not “FULL OF”,,, and if CBS / DC bureau is “wingnut media”, so be it

But it looks as if as many as 23 Americans were on board

Interfax reports that the Ukrainian Interior Ministry says that everyone on board was killed. The Interior Ministry claims that 23 Americans were killed in the crash, according to Interfax

washington.cbslocal.com

81 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:10:39pm

re: #77 Aunty Entity Dragon

When he was writing pure technothriller (HFRO, obviously), he was damned good. The further he strayed from his area of actual expertise, the more derpage shined (shone?) through.

82 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 2:11:01pm

re: #79 FemNaziBitch

Hunt for Red October was still a really awesome movie.

Watch it every time it comes on
Then I go re-read the book (which imho was even better than the movie)

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 17, 2014 2:11:54pm

re: #77 Aunty Entity Dragon

I used to love Tom Clancy novels back in the 80’s. I didn’t realize until much later just what a wingnut he really was.

I read them up to a certain point. And then realized that every one was a conservative nut “wet dream” novel where one of the pet boogeymen try to pull something, seem to be winning, and then get their comeuppance from right-thinking heroes and superior American technology and training. Every single one. And often a few weak sister not-patriotic-enough US politicians get it as well.

84 Timothy Watson  Jul 17, 2014 2:12:03pm

So…where’s Snowden and Greenwald?

Just askin’ questions here.

85 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:13:01pm

re: #81 Testy Toad T

When he was writing pure technothriller (HFRO, obviously), he was damned good. The further he strayed from his area of actual expertise, the more derpage shined (shone?) through.

Yep
I loved Red Storm Rising. One of the few books I literally could not put down all night. Cardinal of the Kremlin was another really good one. Sometime in the 90’s, the derp became strong with him.

86 Timothy Watson  Jul 17, 2014 2:13:35pm

re: #77 Aunty Entity Dragon

I used to love Tom Clancy novels back in the 80’s. I didn’t realize until much later just what a wingnut he really was.

I’m not a 100% sure he really was. How much of the stuff that got published under his name was really written by him and not a ghostwriter? Heck, Clancy’s the guy who defended Islam and Muslims after 9/11.

He goes from that to writing a story where one of the bad guy is an obvious George Soros composite who’s working for the KGB?

87 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:13:52pm

re: #83 Feline Fearless Leader

I read them up to a certain point. And then realized that every one was a conservative nut “wet dream” novel where one of the pet boogeymen try to pull something, seem to be winning, and then get their comeuppance from right-thinking heroes and superior American technology and training. Every single one. And often a few weak sister not-patriotic-enough US politicians get it as well.

Yes, that started becoming obvious after awhile.

88 Iwouldprefernotto  Jul 17, 2014 2:13:57pm

re: #84 Timothy Watson

So…where’s Snowden and Greenwald?

Just askin’ questions here.

They are taking care if ill eagles and seals at the border. Sorry, I’ve had a bad day and need to make myself laugh.

89 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:14:21pm

Here’s an NBC story on the Malaysia Airlines plane.

nbcnews.com

(snip)

“Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said on his Facebook page that the plane was hit by a Russian surface-to-air missile known as a Buk. The type of missile can hit a target far higher than Flight 17 was flying.

“The Associated Press reported earlier this week that it had seen a Buk system on the ground in a separatist-controlled area of eastern Ukraine.

“The separatists denied responsibility. The separatists were quoted by the Russian news agency Interfax as saying that they had found the “black box” flight recorder. Other Russian reports said the rebels planned to call a three-day cease-fire to allow for an investigation.” More

90 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 2:14:24pm

re: #73 Testy Toad T

Clancy gloss over a few ////minor details////?

SURELY YOU JEST.

Nope

And stop calling my Shirley!

91 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:15:22pm

re: #86 Timothy Watson

Well, he also got old. Clancy’s 2010 work was not his 1985 work. Many people who get old start getting abrasive, reclusive, and angry at nobody and everybody in particular.

You can look that up in Joy of Cooking under “wingnut”.

92 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 2:15:31pm

Ed Shultz has former Army Col. Jack Jacobs on and he says he wouldn’t be surprised if the US intelligence folks don’t already know where the missile came from exactly. He is very very slightly hinting a bit that it might have come from Russia or on Russia order and they are in the process of determining how to handle the release of the news. Jacobs said we have that part of the world on constant surveillance. There have also be some words about the sanctions against Russia yesterday and the plane today.

This is all sounding very messy.

93 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 2:16:02pm

re: #87 Aunty Entity Dragon

Yes, that started becoming obvious after awhile.

Kind of like how every Star Wars book became either an newly unearthed Imperial Superweapon or Sith Ghosts, or both at the same time.

94 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 17, 2014 2:16:45pm

re: #87 Aunty Entity Dragon

Yes, that started becoming obvious after awhile.

I think I hit my limit with “Rainbow 6” — which was also a horribly bloated doorstop.

I think the one that really got me looking at the novels to see the blatant politics was _Debt of Honor_. The 2-D Japanese industrialist villains in particular sounded just like some sort of “yellow peril” thing from the 30s.

95 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 2:16:55pm

Evening Lizardim. The world is officially gone bonkers with all this craziness across the pond this day. The ramifications of this day will be felt for years (and I only hope and pray it doesn’t wind up being the launch party for WWIII). How go things among the lizardfolk on this deceptively cool and sunny day?

96 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 2:18:00pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Midnight now on the Live Cam, looking relatively quiet
ustream.tv

97 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 2:18:31pm
98 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 2:19:10pm

Shooting down planes is fucked up.
Invading an already isolated and heavily restricted community with ground forces is also fucked up.

I’m glad I’m busy enough at work that I can’t get sucked into all this shit.

Peace, everyone. Prayers to those who believe in them.

99 Timothy Watson  Jul 17, 2014 2:19:34pm

re: #94 Feline Fearless Leader

I think I hit my limit with “Rainbow 6” — which was also a horribly bloated doorstop.

I think the one that really got me looking at the novels to see the blatant politics was _Debt of Honor_. The 2-D Japanese industrialist villains in particular sounded just like some sort of “yellow peril” thing from the 30s.

Most of the later books were “those shifty Asians are coming for us” types. Debt of Honor (Chinese, Japanese, and Indians), followed by Executive Orders (Chinese, Indians, Persians), Without Remorse (Vietnamese), The Bear and the Dragon (Chinese).

100 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:20:12pm

re: #93 Kragar

Kind of like how every Star Wars book became either an newly unearthed Imperial Superweapon or Sith Ghosts, or both at the same time.

I never got into the expanded Star Wars universe except for the “Pink Five” Stacy storyline, which never failed to make me laugh. I still love the “Chicks Rule!” sticker on her flight helmet… :D

101 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:22:20pm

re: #94 Feline Fearless Leader

I think I hit my limit with “Rainbow 6” — which was also a horribly bloated doorstop.

I think the one that really got me looking at the novels to see the blatant politics was _Debt of Honor_. The 2-D Japanese industrialist villains in particular sounded just like some sort of “yellow peril” thing from the 30s.

Exactly. The Rainbow 6 stories were all wingnut crap. The one about the militant environmentalists who wanted to kill all of humanity was a bullshit recycled James Bond plot from 1978…with more submachine guns.

102 Timothy Watson  Jul 17, 2014 2:22:28pm

re: #93 Kragar

Kind of like how every Star Wars book became either an newly unearthed Imperial Superweapon or Sith Ghosts, or both at the same time.

Definitely, but boy do I still love reading Zahn’s, Stackpole’s, and Allston’s contributions to the EU. Stackpole’s I, Jedi is a huge take-that directed at Kevin J. Anderson.

103 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 2:22:34pm

Can’t watch the war porn, but apparently others can.

104 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:22:48pm

re: #91 Testy Toad T

Well, he also got old…

Clancy also wouldn’t be the first person who looked totally and completely grounded in an us-vs-them world, and grew increasingly less hinged as he searched harder and harder to find a new “them”, eventually inventing some out of whole cloth.

Pretty common, albeit sad, pattern.

105 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 2:24:10pm

re: #100 Aunty Entity Dragon

I never got into the expanded Star Wars universe except for the “Pink Five” Stacy storyline, which never failed to make me laugh. I still love the “Chicks Rule!” sticker on her flight helmet… :D

The Thrawn trilogy was pretty good, precisely because they didn’t resort to superweapons or Sith. The threat was a competent military commander who actually had a strategy to regroup the Empire. Some of the assorted Bounty Hunter stories were pretty fun as well.

106 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:24:31pm

Gawd, Snowden is so self-serving.

Edward Snowden, the NSA whistleblower, talks exclusively to Alan Rusbridger, editor-in-chief of the Guardian, and reporter Ewen MacAskill in Moscow. The 31-year-old former intelligence analyst discusses whether he is a Russian spy, his likely fate if he returns to the US and the relevance of George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in the age of Google

theguardian.com

107 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 17, 2014 2:25:28pm

re: #106 Justanotherhuman

Gawd, Snowden is so self-serving.

Edward Snowden, the NSA whistleblower, talks exclusively to Alan Rusbridger, editor-in-chief of the Guardian, and reporter Ewen MacAskill in Moscow. The 31-year-old former intelligence analyst discusses whether he is a Russian spy, his likely fate if he returns to the US and the relevance of George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in the age of Google

theguardian.com

And between Gaza and the Ukraine — who cares?

108 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:25:41pm

re: #92 ObserverArt

Ed Shultz has former Army Col. Jack Jacobs on and he says he wouldn’t be surprised if the US intelligence folks don’t already know where the missile came from exactly. He is very very slightly hinting a bit that it might have come from Russia or on Russia order and they are in the process of determining how to handle the release of the news. Jacobs said we have that part of the world on constant surveillance. There have also be some words about the sanctions against Russia yesterday and the plane today.

This is all sounding very messy.

If the missile was indeed launched from Russia proper, well, there’s gonna be a big old shitstorm, that’s for sure.

109 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:25:43pm

re: #104 Testy Toad T

Clancy also wouldn’t be the first person who looked totally and completely grounded in an us-vs-them world, and grew increasingly less hinged as he searched harder and harder to find a new “them”, eventually inventing some out of whole cloth.

Pretty common, albeit sad, pattern.

You see it in many sci fi authors as they age. Some, like Orson Scott Card, never do anything else as a matter of fact.

110 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:26:18pm

re: #106 Justanotherhuman

Gawd, Snowden is so self-serving.

Edward Snowden, the NSA whistleblower, talks exclusively to Alan Rusbridger, editor-in-chief of the Guardian, and reporter Ewen MacAskill in Moscow. The 31-year-old former intelligence analyst discusses whether he is a Russian spy, his likely fate if he returns to the US and the relevance of George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in the age of Google

EXCLUSIVE: BREAKING: DEVELOPING: Edward Snowden shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

111 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 2:26:45pm

Out for now. BBL.

112 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 17, 2014 2:27:17pm

re: #85 Aunty Entity Dragon

Yep
I loved Red Storm Rising. One of the few books I literally could not put down all night. Cardinal of the Kremlin was another really good one. Sometime in the 90’s, the derp became strong with him.

_Red Storm RIsing_ was co-written by Larry Bond. His techo-thrillers tended to center around military confrontations and seem to be backed by his work in military simulation computer games.

_Vortex_ was a decent read if I recall. Though it’s pretty outdated due to changes in world politics.

113 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:27:34pm

re: #107 Feline Fearless Leader

And between Gaza and the Ukraine — who cares?

Apparently he and the Dudebros ™ do. ; )

114 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:28:28pm

re: #108 Dr Lizardo

If the missile was indeed launched from Russia proper, well, there’s gonna be a big old shitstorm, that’s for sure.

I mean, not necessarily. The world did not stop spinning after the Russians shot down KAL 007, or after USS Vincinnes shot down… Iranian something or other, I don’t remember the flight number.

As I’ve said earlier, this incident provokes more #OUTRAEG!!!1, but it doesn’t really change the fact that there’s no clear non-WW3 path for the West to achieve their goals in Ukraine, nor is it completely clear what those goals should actually be. IMO.

115 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 2:28:51pm

re: #54 FemNaziBitch

My solution to Jerusalem is the best. Give everybody 72 hours to clear the area with whatever they can carry, then drop daisycutters on each major religiously significant site (don’t want to poison the wider area with a nuke). Whoever wants to can move back in and start from scratch under the auspices of a rubble allocation plan administered by the UN.

I think it solves a shitload of problems in one fell swoop. We can invite any interested religious leaders to stay with their sites until the end, which would be a bonus.

116 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:29:53pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

Destroying priceless cultural artifacts and more than a few (thousand) heavily invested believers seems… maybe a little bit slightly heartless, even if I don’t personally subscribe to any of the region’s religions.

Just a thought.

117 BeenHereAwhile  Jul 17, 2014 2:29:54pm

re: #77 Aunty Entity Dragon

I used to love Tom Clancy novels back in the 80’s. I didn’t realize until much later just what a wingnut he really was.

Clancy lost it before he attempted to purchase the NFL Vikings.

“Red Storm Rising” is his best read.

118 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:31:01pm

Malaysia Airlines official: 154 Dutch passengers on board jet that crashed in Ukraine; 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 Britons, 4 Germans, 3 from Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian also on board; 53 unaccounted for - @JackBoard
end of alert

119 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:32:04pm

White House: President Obama called Ukraine’s Poroshenko, Malaysia’s Razak about plane crash - @Reuters
end of alert

120 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:33:47pm
121 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:35:18pm

re: #114 Testy Toad T

I mean, not necessarily. The world did not stop spinning after the Russians shot down KAL 007, or after USS Vincinnes shot down… Iranian something or other, I don’t remember the flight number.

As I’ve said earlier, this incident provokes more #OUTRAEG!!!1, but it doesn’t really change the fact that there’s no clear non-WW3 path for the West to achieve their goals in Ukraine, nor is it completely clear what those goals should actually be. IMO.

I admit to perhaps being a bit of an old cold-warrior; I’d immediately bring Ukraine and Finland into NATO, then tell the Russians to go suck it.

That being said - and admittedly, perhaps not the most practical solution - another way around is through full-on economic warfare against Russia. Again, not easy, but not impossible. The ruble is crashing as we speak in overnight markets. Even though it would be painful for the EU, perhaps a total freeze-out of Russia from European markets, especially the financial markets, as well as all-out seizure of all Russian financial assets - mind you, this is if that missile came from Russia proper.

Bring Russia to it’s damned knees. Reduce them to penury.

122 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 2:35:41pm
123 Dr. Matt  Jul 17, 2014 2:35:47pm
124 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:36:03pm

“I’m going to blow up the thing in the world you hold most dear and sacred, but I’m giving you time to leave before I blow it up!” is the geopolitical realpolitik version of STOP HITTING YOURSELF STOP HITTING YOURSELF STOP HITTING YOURSELF.

125 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 2:36:36pm
126 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 2:36:50pm

re: #114 Testy Toad T

I mean, not necessarily. The world did not stop spinning after the Russians shot down KAL 007, or after USS Vincinnes shot down… Iranian something or other, I don’t remember the flight number.

As I’ve said earlier, this incident provokes more #OUTRAEG!!!1, but it doesn’t really change the fact that there’s no clear non-WW3 path for the West to achieve their goals in Ukraine, nor is it completely clear what those goals should actually be. IMO.

Don’t let John McCain here that. He seems to already be ready to go after Putin militarily.

Now former congressman and ex-Iraq 1 war participant Pat Murphy is hinting a bit more strongly that this has Russia all over and he wouldn’t be surprised if we know it in a few hours. Not days. He thinks it is directly associated with the sanctions announced yesterday.

And those would be the sanctions that McCain was saying were too wimpy and another weak Obama answer to Russia malarkey. There seems to be thoughts that Putin might have not liked the response. If so, how would he feel about American and proxy UN military actions.

I swear McCain must want another world war before he passes from this world,

127 makeitstop  Jul 17, 2014 2:36:57pm

re: #91 Testy Toad T

Well, he also got old. Clancy’s 2010 work was not his 1985 work. Many people who get old start getting abrasive, reclusive, and angry at nobody and everybody in particular.

You can look that up in Joy of Cooking under “wingnut”.

See McCain, John.

(Except for the ‘reclusive’ part. If only.)

128 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:36:57pm

re: #121 Dr Lizardo

Bring Russia to it’s damned knees. Reduce them to penury.

Problem is, Russia’s been acting crazy enough as it is. I don’t particularly want to know what a Russia on its knees is willing to do to get off of them.

129 Dr. Matt  Jul 17, 2014 2:37:10pm

re: #118 Justanotherhuman

Malaysia Airlines official: 154 Dutch passengers on board jet that crashed in Ukraine; 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 Britons, 4 Germans, 3 from Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian also on board; 53 unaccounted for - @JackBoard
end of alert

Weren’t there 20 Americans?

130 Gus  Jul 17, 2014 2:38:03pm

BBL. Twitter is getting seriously weird. And no, it’s not the wingnuts. Later.

131 Shiplord Kirel  Jul 17, 2014 2:38:34pm

re: #125 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Putin is the messiah, the living prophet, of the conspiracy cult.

132 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 2:38:40pm

re: #25 Aunty Entity Dragon

I can definitely relate to that. You can claim magical balance faerie if you like. I have reached the “Fuck it, you can all kill each other off for all I care” point of interest.

I used to be a die hard Israel supporter, and especially during the first intifada. Lately, the wildly disproportionate body counts of Palestinian civilians have cooled my enthusiasm, to say nothing of the genocidal comments coming from Israelis on social media. At the same time, those Palestinians, possibly including the parents of those four children killed by deliberately directed Israeli artillery fire, voted for Hamas wack jobs.

Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown The Middle East.

The Magical Balance Fairy has quit in disgust. Wright is invoking the Magical Balance Harpy.

133 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 17, 2014 2:38:41pm

re: #108 Dr Lizardo

If the missile was indeed launched from Russia proper, well, there’s gonna be a big old shitstorm, that’s for sure.

That might be a split. One report (caveat!) says the missile was launched from a separatist installation but it had been getting constant Russian air radar data for initial guidance. Then presumably right after launch that missile would self track.

Methinks the Russians were happy to help separatists down Ukrainian military flights.

134 Dr. Matt  Jul 17, 2014 2:38:43pm

re: #119 Justanotherhuman

White House: President Obama called Ukraine’s Poroshenko, Malaysia’s Razak about plane crash - @Reuters
end of alert

WHY IS OBAMA INSERTING HIMSELF INTO THE STORY!??!!?!

135 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:39:29pm

re: #129 Dr. Matt

Weren’t there 20 Americans?

Probably among the “53 unaccounted for”, I would imagine.

136 Shiplord Kirel  Jul 17, 2014 2:39:38pm

137 Kid A  Jul 17, 2014 2:39:48pm
138 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:40:25pm

re: #133 Rightwingconspirator

That might be a split. One report (caveat!) says the missile was launched from a separatist installation but it had been getting constant Russian air radar data for initial guidance. Then presumably right after launch that missile would self track.

Methinks the Russians were happy to help separatists down Ukrainian military flights.

But that still means the Russians are directly responsible for the loss of the aircraft and the 300 souls on board.

139 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 2:40:36pm

re: #126 ObserverArt

Don’t let John McCain here that. He seems to already be ready to go after Putin militarily.

Now former congressman and ex-Iraq 1 war participant Pat Murphy is hinting a bit more strongly that this has Russia all over and he wouldn’t be surprised if we know it in a few hours. Not days. He thinks it is directly associated with the sanctions announced yesterday.

And those would be the sanctions that McCain was saying were too wimpy and another weak Obama answer to Russia malarkey. There seems to be thoughts that Putin might have not liked the response. If so, how would he feel about American and proxy UN military actions.

I swear McCain must want another world war before he passes from this world,

Everytime Senator McCain talks, I am just so thankful that enough Americans agreed with me in 2008 that Obama was the better man for the job. McCain just seems to be war hungry and you’d think that being someone who has seen how ugly war can be that he’d be a little more cautious but nope. I’ve come to despise that man.

140 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 2:40:37pm

I don’t even know what to say anymore, so here is a picture of my grandkids in Jerusalem. Not shown is the little girl who had her first birthday yesterday.

141 Kid A  Jul 17, 2014 2:41:51pm

re: #136 Shiplord Kirel

142 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:42:04pm

re: #140 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t even know what to say anymore, so here is a picture of my grandkids in Jerusalem. Not shown is the little girl who had her first birthday yesterday.
[Embedded image]

May they stay safe, always.

143 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 2:42:40pm

re: #130 Gus

BBL. Twitter is getting seriously weird. And no, it’s not the wingnuts. Later.

Days like today tend to bring out all the crazies no matter the stripes.

I’ll say it again, and my opinion…I am glad I do not do the Tweets. Seems to be ready-made for knee jerking jerks. I’ve yet to see anything good come from any form of knee-jerking.

144 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:44:58pm

re: #141 Kid A

As much as I despised that film for it’s fatuous ‘love story’, I have to give Cameron a lot of credit for recreating that disaster in such a way as to really give the viewer an idea of what it must have been like when the Titanic went down; sheer and utter pandemonium.

Like the friend I went and saw it with said, “Wake me up when the ship hits the iceberg”. Then she fell asleep. :D

145 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:45:01pm

re: #143 ObserverArt

Twitter is a pox on rational and considered discourse. I wish I could send Ahhhnuld back in time to blow it up, Cyberdyne style.

146 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 2:45:19pm

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

147 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:45:47pm

re: #145 Testy Toad T

Twitter is a pox on rational and considered discourse. I wish I could send Ahhhnuld back in time to blow it up, Cyberdyne style.

I’d buy that for a dollar!

148 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 2:46:41pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

I was listening to CNN on the drive home, and there were cheers in the background as the reporter was giving the news update, she said it was Israelis. So they suck. But they didn’t build a shrine, complete with bloody slices of mozzarella, to commemorate the bombing of a pizza parlor.

149 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 2:49:25pm

I have already unfollowed & delisted a bunch of people, some of whom were even on my “WIN” list, who Tweeted that the Israelis are just like Hitler. They suck.

150 Justanotherhuman  Jul 17, 2014 2:49:27pm

OK, I’ve had enough bad news for now.

Be safe, and later, Lizards. : )

151 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 2:49:45pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

This little monologue has always stuck with me over the years since I first saw it. It sums up my feelings on war and the misery we humans inflict upon ourselves so needlessly.

Youtube Video

152 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 2:50:58pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

On the other hand, if you’re going to do a detailed comparison of assholes, you’re going to be looking at a lot of assholes.

153 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 2:51:34pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

If they were clapping I would guess it was because they see that they won’t have to run to bomb shelters anymore from the ongoing rocket barrage courtesy of Hamas.

154 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 2:51:50pm

re: #116 Testy Toad T

Destroying priceless cultural artifacts and more than a few (thousand) heavily invested believers seems… maybe a little bit slightly heartless, even if I don’t personally subscribe to any of the region’s religions.

The sunk cost fallacy applies. If the priceless artifacts/edifices and heavily invested believers cause disruption, death and destruction, better to eliminate them than to say they’re sacrosanct.

155 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 2:53:11pm

re: #154 Botsplainer

The sunk cost fallacy applies. If the priceless artifacts/edifices cause disruption, death and destruction, better to eliminate them than to say they’re sacrosanct.

I’ll bet you think you’re way better & more civilized & sophisticated than the Talibaners who destroyed the Buddha in Bamiyan.

156 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:53:42pm

re: #154 Botsplainer

The sunk cost fallacy applies. If the priceless artifacts/edifices cause disruption, death and destruction, better to eliminate them than to say they’re sacrosanct.

And all those poor stupid dejected dead-enders who reject your munificent gesture and let you pay for your theory with their blood… well, can’t make an omelet, amirite?

157 jaunte  Jul 17, 2014 2:55:13pm

This must be the day for stupidly simplistic “solutions”

158 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 2:55:38pm

re: #157 jaunte

This must be the day for stupidly simplistic “solutions”

Personally, I get a very stabby-esque vibe from this one.

159 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 2:57:24pm

Ah Christ

160 Jack Burton  Jul 17, 2014 2:58:18pm

I’m pretty sure that suggesting the “self-illuminated glass parking lot” solution to the problems in the Middle East was something that generally got people shown to the door by Stinky Beaumont.

161 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 2:58:19pm

re: #153 NJDhockeyfan

If they were clapping I would guess it was because they see that they won’t have to run to bomb shelters anymore from the ongoing rocket barrage courtesy of Hamas.

A query, if I may.

Put yourself in the position of a Hamas or Irgun commander.

You’re suffering a multigenerational occupation, and the correlation of forces in exceedingly asymmetrical. So imbalanced that direct confrontation with military units will result in a 100% casualty/capture number to your detriment, with no possibility of inflicting damage on your target. Do you do the courageous thing with a frontal assault, knowing that you’re going to be slaughtered, or do you choose a soft target for your smaller arms like a movie theater, pizza joint, or the King David Hotel, in order to sap the will of the public/occupiers to persist?

162 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 2:58:22pm

re: #159 Kragar

Ah Christ

[Embedded content]

And the day just got worse.

163 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 2:58:27pm

re: #159 Kragar

Ah Christ

[Embedded content]

Note to self: Stop using the phrase, “What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!” It’s abundantly clear that no matter how bad things get, something else can, in fact, possibly go wrong.

164 Archangelus  Jul 17, 2014 2:58:49pm

So this is what happens the one day I don’t pay attention to the local news… /
In all honesty, any person in Israel could have told you this would happen after this morning, when Hamas didn’t even bother to wait to halfway through the humanitarian ceasefire it was given to launch a significant number of heavy rockets at central Israeli cities.
I woke up to alarms and strong “booms” (rocket interceptions) overhead early in the morning, with more later in the day while getting groceries in the local supermarket in the hours leading to the ground maneuver (we were all forced into the local underground storage facility which served as a safe spot). While most were calm, pretty much everyone there realized that between the Israeli fatalities of the past few days, the renewed bombings and the discourse in the media earlier this week meant that a ground maneuver was a matter of hours away.
Guess we can only hope that there are as few casualties as possible on all sides…

165 OhNoZombies!  Jul 17, 2014 2:59:48pm

re: #159 Kragar

Ah Christ

[Embedded content]

Damn. Just…damn.

166 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 3:00:18pm

re: #156 Testy Toad T

And all those poor stupid dejected dead-enders who reject your munificent gesture and let you pay for your theory with their blood… well, can’t make an omelet, amirite?

That’s the spirit!

167 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 3:00:26pm

Vlad, meet stigma.

168 makeitstop  Jul 17, 2014 3:00:50pm

I gotta get off the web for a while. Between the derp, the tragedy and an extended argument with a Facebook wingnut, I’m played.

Goin’ to dinner with the wife, and I’m sincerely hoping that the Bad Day Fairy takes the rest of the day week month off. Later, Lizards.

169 Archangelus  Jul 17, 2014 3:00:53pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

From what I can tell, yes, it did happen - dude was filming a small group of Israeli ‘refugees’, folks who escaped the ongoing bombing in Israel’s southern region (from Sderot, IIRC, which has been bombed for years now) who were applauding IDF actions against Hamas rocket launchers..

170 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 3:00:55pm

re: #167 darthstar

Vlad, meet stigma.

[Embedded content]

Damn. Not pulling any punches, are we?

171 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 3:01:00pm

Just found out that the “only one Israeli victim” is somebody that my daughter & son-in-law know.

172 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:01:28pm

re: #161 Botsplainer

A query, if I may.

Put yourself in the position of a Hamas or Irgun commander.

You’re suffering a multigenerational occupation, and the correlation of forces in exceedingly asymmetrical. So imbalanced that direct confrontation with military units will result in a 100% casualty/capture number to your detriment, with no possibility of inflicting damage on your target. Do you do the courageous thing with a frontal assault, knowing that you’re going to be slaughtered, or do you choose a soft target like a movie theater, pizza joint, or the King David Hotel, in order to sap the will of the public/occupiers to persist?

The intelligent thing to do is stop firing rockets, put down your arms, and sign a peace treaty with Israel and really mean it.

173 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 3:01:30pm

re: #171 Pie-onist Overlord

Just found out that the “only one Israeli victim” is somebody that my daughter & son-in-law know.

That’s terrible news. Send my condolences to them.

174 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:02:21pm

re: #167 darthstar

Vlad, meet stigma.

[Embedded content]

Ouch.

And The Sun is known for its occasionally inflammatory headlines, but that one’s gonna leave a mark.

175 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 3:02:39pm

re: #166 Botsplainer

That’s the spirit!

Fuck off.

176 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 3:03:07pm

And the first thing out of my co-worker’s mouth when I told him about the AIDS researchers on the plane

Him: “Man, that could be a reason why…”

Me: “No. Just stop right there. Its not.”

177 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 3:03:16pm
178 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:03:50pm

re: #171 Pie-onist Overlord

Just found out that the “only one Israeli victim” is somebody that my daughter & son-in-law know.

I will see my friends this weekend in Virginia. Their son is in Tel Aviv. I spoke to her last week and didn’t think he would be called up in the reserves but anything is possible.

179 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 3:04:34pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

Charles…nuke this fucker.

180 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:04:34pm

re: #177 Stanley Sea

Pretty much all we need now is for somebody to shoot a Duke.

OK…..that one certainly tickled my gallows-humor funnybone.

181 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 3:04:54pm

re: #177 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Agh yeah it’s feeling like 1914 all over again. Sigh.

182 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 3:05:40pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

No.

183 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:05:47pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

We’re lucky everyone’s economy is so interconnected with and interdependent on everyone else’s. Shooting wars between economic powerhouses just aren’t attractive to anybody anymore.

184 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 3:06:01pm

re: #180 Dr Lizardo

OK…..that one certainly tickled my gallows-humor funnybone.

Me too. Can’t help it.

185 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:06:05pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

Agh yeah it’s feeling like 1914 all over again. Sigh.

Yeah, I’ve seen a couple of comparisons of the Malaysian Airlines shootdown to the sinking of the Lusitania.

186 piratedan  Jul 17, 2014 3:06:13pm

re: #94 Feline Fearless Leader

agree, Red Storm Rising and Red October were quite good but after that, it got to be pretty much Jack Ryan, American Avenger Vol I thru XII.

187 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:06:20pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

I’ll fire up the grill.

How about… jerk? Are people feeling good about Caribbean jerk tonight? It seems fitting.

188 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 3:07:05pm

re: #183 Testy Toad T

We’re lucky everyone’s economy is so interconnected with and interdependent on everyone else’s. Shooting wars between economic powerhouses just aren’t attractive to anybody anymore.

Yeah true that. It’s a frustrating world since you see so often every day how great man can be to man but then you see how terrible.

189 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 3:07:55pm

re: #185 Dr Lizardo

Yeah, I’ve seen a couple of comparisons of the Malaysian Airlines shootdown to the sinking of the Lusitania.

Well, that’s pretty much up to the actions of the Kaiser Tsar Putin.

190 goddamnedfrank  Jul 17, 2014 3:09:41pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

Rightly or wrongly (I think rightly), people hold Israel and Israelis to a much higher standard. That’s the entire public relations framework of the conflict that makes the hugely disparate body count ostensibly justifiable, that Israel holds itself more accountable. That it is the first world democracy locked in conflict with mostly irrational and barbaric foes.

The downside to occupying the moral high ground is that the position is easier to undermine.

191 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:09:44pm

re: #185 Dr Lizardo

Yeah, I’ve seen a couple of comparisons of the Malaysian Airlines shootdown to the sinking of the Lusitania.

Eh. We went into WW1 because we wanted to at the highest levels, and we were able to drum up popular support with incidents like that. The US didn’t enter WW1 until two years after the Lusitania blew up. I don’t see an airline shootdown as making anybody really actively want to go to war with the Russians, and I don’t see Obama wanting to make that happen either.

192 sagehen  Jul 17, 2014 3:09:52pm

re: #161 Botsplainer

A query, if I may.

Put yourself in the position of a Hamas or Irgun commander.

You’re suffering a multigenerational occupation, and the correlation of forces in exceedingly asymmetrical. So imbalanced that direct confrontation with military units will result in a 100% casualty/capture number to your detriment, with no possibility of inflicting damage on your target. Do you do the courageous thing with a frontal assault, knowing that you’re going to be slaughtered, or do you choose a soft target for your smaller arms like a movie theater, pizza joint, or the King David Hotel, in order to sap the will of the public/occupiers to persist?

Are you unaware that the King David Hotel was British Military HQ? The whole building, it wasn’t just a couple of offices in a functioning tourist building… the only civilians present were “civilian contracter” employees, working full-time for the military. It was equivalent to if Iraqi insurgents attacked Camp Victory.

So no, I wouldn’t call that “a soft target”.

193 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:10:53pm

re: #183 Testy Toad T

We’re lucky everyone’s economy is so interconnected with and interdependent on everyone else’s. Shooting wars between economic powerhouses just aren’t attractive to anybody anymore.

Don’t forget there was a good deal of interconnection between the European economies prior to WWI; it didn’t stop them from marching off to annihilation.

Sometimes, people get these ideas into their heads and just say, “Fuck it….let’s kill ‘em all” and the next thing you know, armies are being mobilized, bombs are falling and the bullets are flying.

Or as Stephen King once put it, “The red balloon goes up and the Big Hot One gets started.”

194 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 3:11:33pm

Tribute to the Israeli victim of Hamas rocket.

My son-in-law appears at 1:10.

195 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 3:11:38pm

re: #193 Dr Lizardo

Don’t forget there was a good deal of interconnection between the European economies prior to WWI; it didn’t stop them from marching off to annihilation.

Sometimes, people get these ideas into their heads and just say, “Fuck it….let’s kill ‘em all” and the next thing you know, armies are being mobilized, bombs are falling and the bullets are flying.

Or as Stephen King once put it, “The red balloon goes up and the Big Hot One gets started.”

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Charles used that line about Snowden the other day, but realistically, it fits just as well right here.

196 Aqua Obama  Jul 17, 2014 3:13:14pm
Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said that he had spoken by phone to President Barack Obama, and that both leaders agreed only crash site investigators should have access to Malaysian Airlines Flight 17’s black boxes, which could contain essential clues for determining how the plane was brought down. Earlier, pro-Russian separatists had announced their intention to hand over the jet’s cockpit voice recorder and its flight data recorder to Moscow for analysis.

Hey Putin, are you going to impede an investigation requested by a sovereign government that lost their fucking plane?!

197 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 3:13:44pm

re: #193 Dr Lizardo

Don’t forget there was a good deal of interconnection between the European economies prior to WWI; it didn’t stop them from marching off to annihilation.

Sometimes, people get these ideas into their heads and just say, “Fuck it….let’s kill ‘em all” and the next thing you know, armies are being mobilized, bombs are falling and the bullets are flying.

Or as Stephen King once put it, “The red balloon goes up and the Big Hot One gets started.”

Well that and the fact that familial ties didn’t seem to matter much to Nicky, Georgie, and Willi. It’s frustrating. Every day I feel conflicted about how we are as a people. You see such genuine acts of kindness and then acts of genuine evil.

198 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 3:14:35pm

re: #108 Dr Lizardo

If the missile was indeed launched from Russia proper, well, there’s gonna be a big old shitstorm, that’s for sure.

China will just veto anything that would hold Russia accountable.

199 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:14:36pm
200 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 3:14:48pm

re: #195 thedopefishlives

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Charles used that line about Snowden the other day, but realistically, it fits just as well right here.

My cousin who is far from a wingnut ideologically sadly is like that. Always nuke this, nuke that, man kind should be destroyed, etc. Agh his FB page is difficult to read.

201 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 3:15:50pm

re: #172 NJDhockeyfan

The intelligent thing to do is stop firing rockets, put down your arms, and sign a peace treaty with Israel and really mean it.

Great.

Are the terms that the munificent Israelis offer in that treaty reasonable, or are they about as ironclad as terms between Americans of European extract and Native Americans, with shifting borders and worthless promises? Are the Israelis respectful of riparian rights and deeds? Are they rentiers on the provision of power and tariffs for overland shipments of foodstuffs?

And have those munificent Israelis been honest brokers on those items in the past?

202 TedStriker  Jul 17, 2014 3:16:21pm

re: #108 Dr Lizardo

If the missile was indeed launched from Russia proper, well, there’s gonna be a big old shitstorm, that’s for sure.

KAL 007 for the 21st century.

203 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:16:44pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Seeing all these horrified tweets from people who heard that an Israeli crowd applauded at bombings. Did it really happen? Who knows? It may have.

But these people seem to have completely missed the HUGE celebrations in places like Gaza after Palestinian suicide bombers blew up school buses and restaurants.

It’s never a good thing to celebrate war. But I’m sorry — these people complaining about a random group of Israelis applauding are being fucking hypocrites.

There’s plenty of video on youtube. The biggest cheers are Iron Dome interceptions. Those are definite crowd pleasers. But there’s general ooh-ing and aah-ing as rockets come and go. I didn’t see anything inappropriate and it doesn’t surprise me to see people cheering for their armed forces.

204 Kid A  Jul 17, 2014 3:16:54pm

re: #166 Botsplainer

Stabby!!!! I’ve missed your commentary around here absolutely none whatsoever!!!

205 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 3:19:27pm

MSNBCre: #171 Pie-onist Overlord

Just found out that the “only one Israeli victim” is somebody that my daughter & son-in-law know.

Sad. The small world phenomena.

206 TedStriker  Jul 17, 2014 3:19:59pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

Oh, look, a fucking moron…

207 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:20:09pm

re: #201 Botsplainer

And your answer is…. glass the place?

I mean, I’m not saying the Israelis have ever been saints, but you fall victim to the Libertarian Paradox. Everything sounds reasonable for five minutes (or lines) until the reader realizes you have gone completely whacko.

208 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 3:20:48pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

Well that and the fact that familial ties didn’t seem to matter much to Nicky, Georgie, and Willi. It’s frustrating. Every day I feel conflicted about how we are as a people. You see such genuine acts of kindness and then acts of genuine evil.

Those familial ties didn’t matter because they weren’t going to be the ones dying.

It was just a big grand game, ho, ho, ho. Like a chessboard on which each could flop their dick to measure up to the others.

Its a wonder that all of Europe didn’t erupt into a monster of a communist revolution. Very likely would have with about another year of bullshit had the US not entered.

209 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:21:29pm

Seeing reports that Assad is using chlorine again

(check his timeline for more)

210 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 3:21:37pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Yes, it happened. But while one can easily understand a nationalistic sense of pride and ‘cheering on the troops’, the optics aren’t helpful in the long run. The reason you see these people enjoying the summer evening battle below is because they haven’t been in danger, really. Yes, lobbing rockets is wrong and eventually people will get hurt if it continues, but it’s nowhere near a fair fight.

211 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 3:23:26pm

Holy Crap, I did not see this coming

Egypt says Qatar, Turkey and Hamas hurt Gaza ceasefire bid

212 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:24:31pm
213 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:25:31pm

re: #90 sattv4u2

Nope

And stop calling my Shirley!

Great book as well. Herman Wouk.

214 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:25:33pm

re: #211 Kragar

Holy Crap, I did not see this coming

Egypt says Qatar, Turkey and Hamas hurt Gaza ceasefire bid

Qatar has been very busy lately.

215 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 3:25:47pm
216 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 3:25:49pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

Well that and the fact that familial ties didn’t seem to matter much to Nicky, Georgie, and Willi. It’s frustrating. Every day I feel conflicted about how we are as a people. You see such genuine acts of kindness and then acts of genuine evil.

Per Disraeli, we are “half ape, half angel”. Your Percentages May Vary.

217 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:26:10pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

@djp3tros
Promo video BUK-M1 SAM. Needs special operators. #MH17 not shot down by local terrorists but Russian regular army.

That’s a huge stretch, since Ukraine also operates Buk, and has for many decades. It is completely conceivable that ex-Ukrainian Army servicemembers, now part of the separatist movement, are operating these systems.

218 TedStriker  Jul 17, 2014 3:26:18pm

re: #121 Dr Lizardo

I admit to perhaps being a bit of an old cold-warrior; I’d immediately bring Ukraine and Finland into NATO, then tell the Russians to go suck it.

That being said - and admittedly, perhaps not the most practical solution - another way around is through full-on economic warfare against Russia. Again, not easy, but not impossible. The ruble is crashing as we speak in overnight markets. Even though it would be painful for the EU, perhaps a total freeze-out of Russia from European markets, especially the financial markets, as well as all-out seizure of all Russian financial assets - mind you, this is if that missile came from Russia proper.

Bring Russia to it’s damned knees. Reduce them to penury.

re: #128 Testy Toad T

Problem is, Russia’s been acting crazy enough as it is. I don’t particularly want to know what a Russia on its knees is willing to do to get off of them.

Russians have always struck me as the “I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees” type; that seems to throw a monkey wrench into any scenario like what Dr. Lizardo put out there.

219 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 3:26:53pm

re: #216 Decatur Deb

Per Disraeli, we are “half ape, half angel”. Your Percentages May Vary.

Never heard that one before. But my answer is that it depends on the day. Today more ape.

220 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 3:28:24pm

re: #219 HappyWarrior

Never heard that one before. But my answer is that it depends on the day. Today more ape.

He used it, there are claims he lifted it on a bad day.

221 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:28:29pm

re: #127 makeitstop

See McCain, John.

(Except for the ‘reclusive’ part. If only.)

Michael Crithon.

222 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:28:30pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

I had a buddy from High School who was part of a crew on an MLRS (can’t remember what system). You need quite a bit of training to run those things, acquire a target, operate the controls and fire the weapon. I don’t see seperatists getting ahold of one of these things and just being able to shoot shit outta the sky without help.

223 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 3:28:41pm

re: #172 NJDhockeyfan

The intelligent thing to do is stop firing rockets, put down your arms, and sign a peace treaty with Israel and really mean it.

And then watch as the rest of your property gets taken from you without payment or recompense for settlements…and you still don’t get to have anything resembling an actual state of your own.

Israel has a fucking lot to do with this also, even if they aren’t the ones blowing up pizza restaurants. Theft is theft.

224 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:30:10pm

re: #141 Kid A

[Embedded image]

Times moves on, things change, doncha know …

225 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 3:30:20pm

re: #207 Testy Toad T

And your answer is…. glass the place?

I mean, I’m not saying the Israelis have ever been saints, but you fall victim to the Libertarian Paradox. Everything sounds reasonable for five minutes (or lines) until the reader realizes you have gone completely whacko.

No, my rhetoric is purely theoretical.

Look, here’s my problem - multigenerational occupations warp everybody involved. They warp the thinking of the occupied, the occupiers see their subjects as unhuman, thus come the punitive reprisals.

The days of the blank check from the US for this are rapidly coming to a close, and if the taxpaying Israeli public had to pay the full freight of the occupation and policy intransigence on the apartheid - no more American dollars supporting the militarism, no more cover at the UN, divestiture campaigns, sanctions, international isolation - then perhaps you would see some genuine movement toward compromise on the two states or assimilation.

The alternative is more apartheid, more occupation, more death.

The Israelis can’t have a religious state with democratic components without ethnic cleansing. They can have a secular democratic state without it, but that won’t satisfy either the Orthodox or the American religious right (who only care about Israel long enough to bring Jesus back to Earth so that the Jews get wiped out).

Time to choose.

226 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:30:21pm

re: #218 TedStriker

Russians have always struck me as the “I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees” type; that seems to throw a monkey wrench into any scenario like what Dr. Lizardo put out there.

Yeah, that’s true.

Nonetheless, the Russians have to pay for this. This kind of activity cannot be allowed; that is all there is to it. What that might entail, I confess, is above my pay grade.

But Russia needs to be slapped down. And hard.

227 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 3:30:38pm

re: #222 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I had a buddy from High School who was part of a crew on an MLRS (can’t remember what system). You need quite a bit of training to run those things, acquire a target, operate the controls and fire the weapon. I don’t see seperatists getting ahold of one of these things and just being able to shoot shit outta the sky without help.

These were separatists who just so happened to have Russian issued uniforms and equipment they must have picked up from a surplus store somewhere.

228 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:31:18pm
229 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:31:38pm

re: #159 Kragar

Ah Christ

[Embedded content]

ah!

230 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:31:59pm

re: #225 Botsplainer

This is way less pants-on-head evil/stupid/naive, and though I don’t know if I 100% agree with you, if you’d lead with that you might not have subjected yourself to Sea O’ Downdings…

232 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:33:27pm

re: #218 TedStriker

Russians have always struck me as the “I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees” type; that seems to throw a monkey wrench into any scenario like what Dr. Lizardo put out there.

Well, we’re having a hard time keeping international support for sanctions against Iran, Russia would be even more difficult. People talk a lot about the military-industrial complex and the influence on creating wars. But here we have a case where business influences don;t want wars and don’t want sanctions. They want to make money and keep commerce flowing as long as possible regardless of the repercussions on world affairs. I think both Russia and Iran are betting that Western businesses are going to thwart any serious repercussions.

233 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 3:33:41pm

re: #222 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I had a buddy from High School who was part of a crew on an MLRS (can’t remember what system). You need quite a bit of training to run those things, acquire a target, operate the controls and fire the weapon. I don’t see seperatists getting ahold of one of these things and just being able to shoot shit outta the sky without help.

Russian equipment was designed for a minimally trained conscript army. I would imagine that anybody on this forum could fire an SA-11 with a few hours instruction and hands on tinkering.

234 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:33:59pm

re: #227 Kragar

These were separatists who just so happened to have Russian issued uniforms and equipment they must have picked up from a surplus store somewhere.

I said seperatists because that is what they are being called but I don’t doubt for a minute that they are Russian troops.

235 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:34:57pm

re: #233 Aunty Entity Dragon

Russian equipment was designed for a minimally traned conscript army. I would imagine that anybody on this forum could fire an SA-11 with a few hours instruction and hands on tinkering.

You could change “few hours” to “few weeks” and it would still be entirely plausible that someone found the time.

I mean, I still think it’s probably heavily supported by (if not launched by!) the Russians, but you don’t go to war on a gut suspicion or a wild-ass theory.

[GLARES AT TEXAS]

236 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 3:35:00pm

re: #227 Kragar

These were separatists who just so happened to have Russian issued uniforms and equipment they must have picked up from a surplus store somewhere.

Think “Flying Tigers”, although Blackwater/Xe/Academi would have bid it for a reasonable price.

237 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:35:11pm

re: #233 Aunty Entity Dragon

Russian equipment was designed for a minimally traned conscript army. I would imagine that anybody on this forum could fire an SA-11 with a few hours instruction and hands on tinkering.

True, but I still think it would be more involved than pressing a button and if it was “seperatists” who fired the missile there’s little doubt that training was provided by the Russian military.

238 goddamnedfrank  Jul 17, 2014 3:35:14pm

There’s no sociological problem that I couldn’t fix with a point to point teleportation device and a giant prison on the Moon.

Why won’t anybody take my hypothetical solution seriously?

239 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:35:19pm

re: #183 Testy Toad T

We’re lucky everyone’s economy is so interconnected with and interdependent on everyone else’s. Shooting wars between economic powerhouses just aren’t attractive to anybody anymore.

Oh, but this is what the Whackos hate more than anything. It’s Imperiaism or Communism or some sort of awful secularism.

240 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 3:35:32pm

re: #230 Testy Toad T

This is way less pants-on-head evil/stupid/naive, and though I don’t know if I 100% agree with you, if you’d lead with that you might not have subjected yourself to Sea O’ Downdings…

My wife says I’m an asshole the way I express myself most of the time, and she actually has to sleep with me. I guess I’m even worse when anonymous.

241 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:35:49pm

re: #237 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

True, but I still think it would be more involved than pressing a button and if it was “seperatists” who fired the missile there’s little doubt that training was provided by the Russian military.

There’s plenty of damned doubt. Ukraine operates exactly the same missile system!

242 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:36:52pm

re: #238 goddamnedfrank

There’s no sociological problem that I couldn’t fix with a point to point teleportation device and a giant prison on the Moon.

Why won’t anybody take my hypothetical solution seriously?

I look forward to Wolf Blitzer reading your tweets live on CNN.

243 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 3:36:55pm

re: #232 Killgore Trout

I think both Russia and Iran are betting that Western businesses are going to thwart any serious repercussions.

Not only that, but iirc something to the order of 1/3 to 1/2 of natural gas that Europe buys/ uses comes via Russia one way or another. They’re (the Europeans) aren’t going to cut of their noses to spite their faces

244 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 3:36:56pm

re: #236 Decatur Deb

Think ‘Flying Tigers”, although Blackwater/Xe/Academi would have bid it for a reasonable price.

What are ex-Russia military supposed to do in this tough world economy? SO, you take the job for whoever is hiring…or for some thrills.

///

245 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:37:57pm

Will be an interesting night in World of Tanks, that’s for sure.

246 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:38:03pm

re: #243 sattv4u2

I think both Russia and Iran are betting that Western businesses are going to thwart any serious repercussions.

Not only that, but iirc something to the order of 1/3 to 1/2 of natural gas that Europe buys/ uses comes via Russia one way or another. They’re (the Europeans) aren’t going to cut of their noses to spite their faces

The spice must flow.

247 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 3:39:01pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

The spice must flow.

Thank you, Marco Polo!

248 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 3:39:08pm

re: #235 Testy Toad T

You could change “few hours” to “few weeks” and it would still be entirely plausible that someone found the time.

I mean, I still think it’s probably heavily supported by (if not launched by!) the Russians, but you don’t go to war on a gut suspicion or a wild-ass theory.

[GLARES AT TEXAS]

There was a well advertised incident during the Falklands War where an untrained British soldier engaged and shot down an Argentine fighter with a Rapier missile, similar in concept to the SA-11.

249 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:39:32pm

No surprise here.

250 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:40:18pm

re: #241 Testy Toad T

There’s plenty of damned doubt. Ukraine operates exactly the same missile system!

ok so there are two possibilities. These are current/former Ukrainian military who became seperatists and got ahold of these missile systems. Or they are seperatists who were trained by the Russian military. All things considered, and with Russias meddling I am more likely to believe it was the latter.

251 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 3:40:41pm

re: #83 Feline Fearless Leader

I read them up to a certain point. And then realized that every one was a conservative nut “wet dream” novel where one of the pet boogeymen try to pull something, seem to be winning, and then get their comeuppance from right-thinking heroes and superior American technology and training. Every single one. And often a few weak sister not-patriotic-enough US politicians get it as well.

I prefer Larry Bond’s work.

He designed a game that used to be, and may still be, used to train Navy officers. His first few books were about world hot spots; Korea, South Africa, Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Then he did one which is my favourite; The Enemy Within. He came up with a quite plausible plan, had the bad guys execute it with skill and it came quite close to succeeding. The end was rather Clancy-ish, but it was tense which is something Clancy’s books never are.

252 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:40:57pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

Thank you, Marco Polo!

I invented the noodle too.

253 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 3:40:59pm

re: #225 Botsplainer

“Apartheid?”

Look, I’m getting sick of the occupation of the West Bank too, and especially sick of the way the Netanyahu government is enabling the settlements to expand.

But this is NOT “apartheid,” and using that word to describe the situation in Israel is just stupid. It is NOT the same thing. Not even close. Educate yourself before applying terms like this, because it’s obvious you don’t have a clue what “apartheid” really was.

254 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 3:41:04pm

re: #241 Testy Toad T

There’s plenty of damned doubt. Ukraine operates exactly the same missile system!

Who would the Ukrainians shoot at? The rebels don’t have an air force. On the other hand, the rebels have been shooting down all kinds of stuff.

255 Archangelus  Jul 17, 2014 3:41:08pm

For all our sakes, I hope any and all dukes across the globe are spending the day/night in secure locations… /

256 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 3:41:15pm

re: #249 NJDhockeyfan

No surprise here.

[Embedded content]

If true, a wasted effort. Our birds can tell when it had its last oil change.

257 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 3:41:19pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

Thank you, Marco Polo!Paul Atreides

ftfy

258 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 3:41:24pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

I invented the noodle too.

That was smart of you
Way to use it!

259 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:42:18pm

re: #241 Testy Toad T

There’s also the fact that, though the Russians might say you need a four month intensive course to become a proficient missileer, that’s to be able to operate against tactical aircraft in a confusing, dangerous, heavy-jamming environment.

A 777 is low, slow, level, on a steady course, without any jamming. If The Idiot’s Guide to Buk in 24 Hours has a section at the end of chapter one entitled Tutorial 1: My First Shootdown, it looks exactly like this.

260 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:42:54pm

re: #77 Aunty Entity Dragon

I really enjoyed reading Rainbow 6 but yeah, after a finding out more about Clancy I just couldn’t read the books the same way anymore. Kinda like reading Mack Bolan stories.

261 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:43:13pm

re: #249 NJDhockeyfan

No surprise here.

[Embedded content]

262 Testy Toad T  Jul 17, 2014 3:43:16pm

re: #250 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

ok so there are two possibilities. These are current/former Ukrainian military who became seperatists and got ahold of these missile systems. Or they are seperatists who were trained by the Russian military. All things considered, and with Russias meddling I am more likely to believe it was the latter.

Of course you are. For the record, I am too. But that’s nowhere near enough certainty upon which to act.

263 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:44:12pm

re: #240 Botsplainer

My wife says I’m an asshole the way I express myself most of the time, and she actually has chooses to sleep with me. I guess I’m even worse when anonymous.

FTFY

264 TedStriker  Jul 17, 2014 3:45:10pm

re: #166 Botsplainer

You see that glow in the corner of your eye? It’s your LGF account dissipation light and it’s going into overtime…

265 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:45:44pm

re: #247 sattv4u2

Thank you, Marco Polo!

I was thinking of Dune.

266 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:45:46pm

re: #262 Testy Toad T

Of course you are. For the record, I am too. But that’s nowhere near enough certainty upon which to act.

I never said there was enough to act on or even what action should be taken (or in this case what I would support). Just saying this has the stink of Russia all over it and if it can be proven then something has to be done about it.

IMO they are incriminating themselves more by moving into the area and trying to snag all the evidence.

267 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:46:00pm

re: #243 sattv4u2

I think both Russia and Iran are betting that Western businesses are going to thwart any serious repercussions.

Not only that, but iirc something to the order of 1/3 to 1/2 of natural gas that Europe buys/ uses comes via Russia one way or another. They’re (the Europeans) aren’t going to cut of their noses to spite their faces

Remember though that Russia’s economy is currently on the brink of a recession; it won’t be much longer before imported goods will become scarce and social payments will need to be cut. Russians will start singing ‘Back in the USSR’ and not in the good way.

Putin promised a new and strong Russia - instead, an impoverished Russia seems to be emerging.

Stronger sanctions will push it down further, and those need to be put into place, especially after this atrocity. After all, to be a military superpower means you need a lot of $$$ at your disposal, and if that dough ain’t flowing in anymore - capital flight is already accelerating in Russia - then they end up as a paper tiger.

268 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:46:05pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

White House warns against removal of plane evidence

Or else what? They already have the black box. They are probably cleaning up all the damning evidence they can find right now as well.

269 Kragar  Jul 17, 2014 3:46:55pm

Is it just me, or does a high pitched keening sound keep showing up in the thread?

270 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:47:07pm

re: #265 FemNaziBitch

I was thinking of Dune.

That’s what came to mind when you posted that.

271 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:47:31pm

re: #268 NJDhockeyfan

Or else what? They already have the black box. They are probably cleaning up all the damning evidence they can find right now as well.

Putin still not honoring hashtag

272 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:49:44pm

re: #251 Romantic Heretic

I prefer Larry Bond’s work.

He designed a game that used to be, and may still be, used to train Navy officers. His first few books were about world hot spots; Korea, South Africa, Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Then he did one which is my favourite; The Enemy Within. He came up with a quite plausible plan, had the bad guys execute it with skill and it came quite close to succeeding. The end was rather Clancy-ish, but it was tense which is something Clancy’s books never are.

This book came up under Robert Tannnbaum when I clicked the audible link on the page you referenced?

273 NJDhockeyfan  Jul 17, 2014 3:50:37pm

re: #271 Killgore Trout

Putin still not honoring hashtag

Lol. Where is the Reset Button?

274 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 3:50:58pm

re: #123 Dr. Matt

[Embedded content]

There’s that famous, “WTF do I do now?” expression.

275 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 3:51:11pm

re: #267 Dr Lizardo

Well, you’re geographically closer to the situation. Does Europe have an appetite for higher energy prices (as well as higher costs for just about everything else due to the fallout of higher energy prices) for a squabble over the Ukraine/ Russia border with the downing of a NON European flagged plane at the expense of sanctions against Russia meaning they could cut off the gas!

276 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 3:51:31pm

re: #267 Dr Lizardo

Remember though that Russia’s economy is currently on the brink of a recession; it won’t be much longer before imported goods will become scarce and social payments will need to be cut. Russians will start singing ‘Back in the USSR’ and not in the good way.

Putin promised a new and strong Russia - instead, an impoverished Russia seems to be emerging.

Stronger sanctions will push it down further, and those need to be put into place, especially after this atrocity. After all, to be a military superpower means you need a lot of $$$ at your disposal, and if that dough ain’t flowing in anymore - capital flight is already accelerating in Russia - then they end up as a paper tiger.

True but the Iranian economy was even further down the road even to the point of some stirrings of popular revolt but we couldn’t/wouldn’t push them over the edge. It looks like we’ve already let them out of the box. Squeezing Russia would cost us more economically, take longer and would be much more difficult to enforce. Sadly, I don;t think the West has the stones to see this through.

277 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 3:52:50pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

Is this all the news they could garner from the WH?

Sounds like the contents of a general memo to me.

1-secure the perimeter
2-do not remove evidence
3-look for any hazards to public health
4-do not ingest
5-keep away from small children
5-rinse and repeat

278 CuriousLurker  Jul 17, 2014 3:54:37pm

I’m with JihadiJew on this. No further comment.

A Prayerful Goodbye to the Social Media War

May Hashem/ Allah (swt) grace us all with purified hearts to serve Him in truth!

It is with sadness and resignation that I will not be reading any more posts or contributing to any more posts on the conflict in Israel/Palestine on social media. There is no way for me to measure and certainly no way to express my disappointment at friends, family and acquaintances for an inability to see beyond the narrow confines of one side or the other to the human realities of the conflict; the reality of Israeli families hunkered down in bunkers with sirens wailing over their heads as rockets rain, the reality of families in Gaza with no place to go facing bombs, destruction of homes and a rising death toll which inevitably includes many who are innocent. I deeply believe that our Creator will judge us for our refusal to grant humanity to one another. I will continue with my work in Abraham’s Tent and I will continue in my personal life and my personal mission as “Jihadi Jew” to try to create love and connection between Muslims and Jews. […]

jihadiyehudi.blogspot.com

279 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 3:55:04pm

re: #269 Kragar

Is it just me, or does a high pitched keening sound keep showing up in the thread?

Bug zapper is turned on.

280 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 3:55:27pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

“Apartheid?”

Look, I’m getting sick of the occupation of the West Bank too, and especially sick of the way the Netanyahu government is enabling the settlements to expand.

But this is NOT “apartheid,” and using that word to describe the situation in Israel is just stupid. It is NOT the same thing. Not even close. Educate yourself before applying terms like this, because it’s obvious you don’t have a clue what “apartheid” really was.

Botsplainer has made me want to take a hammer to my computer more then once at Balloon Juice. Nonetheless, there are parallels to South Africa, unfortunately…even if the situations are not exactly the same.

This is from an Israeli commentator, and it bears reading.

“Gaza … is a maximum-security facility. It is difficult to visit and impossible to leave. We allow in essential food, water, and electricity so that the prisoners don’t die. Apart from that, we don’t really care about them—that is unless they approach the prison fence, or the “forbidden” perimeter, where anyone who wanders too close is shot, or if they try to throw something over the fence. Indeed, they occasionally throw some homemade bombs made of things they’ve managed to smuggle into prison, and when they fall on our heads, it is really unpleasant. So we send our snipers to the watchtowers built around the prison and shoot them like fish in a barrel until they calm down. And when they finally do calm down, we cease firing because we are not the kind of bastards who shoot people for fun,” - Noam Sheizaf.

dish.andrewsullivan.com

This becomes the problem. Your place of birth becomes your entire destiny. If you are in Gaza, you can never leave. You have no ability to do anything better. You will always be looking down the barrel of somebody else’s gun no matter what you do or do not do. You may have just barely enough to eat, but that is not living. It is Hobbesian survival at its’ most base.

281 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:56:41pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

Well, you’re geographically closer to the situation. Does Europe have an appetite for higher energy prices (as well as higher costs for just about everything else due to the fallout of higher energy prices) for a squabble over the Ukraine/ Russia border with the downing of a NON European flagged plane at the expense of sanctions against Russia meaning they could cut off the gas!

We shall see; anti-Russian sentiment in the Czech Republic is running pretty high generally, and this little slaughter will certainly intensify it. But don’t forget, a lot of Europeans died on this flight. 174 Dutch; possibly 10 British as well.

Looking at the Czech webs, the minority of Russophile Czechs have gone utterly silent, and the general sentiment among the rest seems to be “typical Russian filth…..”

Of course, the Czechs have many reasons to detest the Russians.

Well, the Germans too, but at least the Germans apologized for that shit. But this may be too much, even for the Europeans. More than a few are saying Russia needs to be shut down before they go too far.

282 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 3:56:44pm

re: #278 CuriousLurker

I’m with JihadiJew on this. No further comment.

[Embedded content]

Odd that graphic should include English.

283 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 3:56:52pm

re: #260 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I really enjoyed reading Rainbow 6 but yeah, after a finding out more about Clancy I just couldn’t read the books the same way anymore. Kinda like reading Mack Bolan stories.

Now there’s a bad memory…

Don Pendleton’s Executioner series!

284 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 3:57:04pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Or “separatist” morons who don’t know how to operate the equipment.

285 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 3:58:54pm

re: #283 Aunty Entity Dragon

Now there’s a bad memory…

Don Pendleton’s Executioner series!

I remember those! I discovered the Executioner series when I was about six or seven!

286 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 3:58:57pm

re: #280 Aunty Entity Dragon

I think it cheapens the valid arguments against occupation to throw around terms like “apartheid.” The real South African apartheid was brutal and inhuman far beyond anything going on in the West Bank or Gaza.

I agree the situation is very bad for a lot of Palestinians. But it is not apartheid.

287 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 3:59:38pm

Louie “terror babies” Gohmert: “Our continued existence at risk” from refugee women and children

288 HappyWarrior  Jul 17, 2014 4:00:40pm

re: #287 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Louie “terror babies” Gohmert: “Our continued existence at risk” from refugee women and children

No, Louie our continued existence is at risk due to morons like you having any sort of power whatsoever. Go put on a klan hood on and leave Washington forever you piece of bigoted shit.

289 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 4:00:49pm

re: #286 Charles Johnson

I think it cheapens the valid arguments against occupation to throw around terms like “apartheid.” The real South African apartheid was brutal and inhuman far beyond anything going on in the West Bank or Gaza.

I agree the situation is very bad for a lot of Palestinians. But it is not apartheid.

Just to chime in here: A lot of the pro-Palestinian crowd seem to be setting up against a strawman. I don’t think any of us would deny that the people commonly referred to as Palestinians are having a hard time of it. The pro-Palestinian bunch seem to be making us all out to be inhuman monsters who want to bulldoze Gazans into the sea.

290 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 4:01:03pm

re: #287 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Louie “terror babies” Gohmert: “Our continued existence at risk” from refugee women and children

Rep Louie was frightened by a nursing mother.

291 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 4:03:19pm

re: #196 Aqua Obama

Hey Putin, are you going to impede an investigation requested by a sovereign government that lost their fucking plane?!

Da.

292 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 4:04:17pm

re: #291 Romantic Heretic

Da.

In Russia, data is recording you.

293 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 4:04:38pm

I did not know this.

294 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 4:06:25pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

So ‘Go fuck yourself’ just doesn’t carry much sting.

295 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 4:06:29pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

so not only could they screw themselves (hermaphrodites) they are able to do it.

296 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 4:07:16pm

re: #291 Romantic Heretic

Da.

Da Da

ftfy

Youtube Video

297 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 4:08:12pm

K Kiddies

Gotta go burn some animal flesh

bbl

298 FemNaziBitch  Jul 17, 2014 4:08:18pm

bbl

299 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:08:24pm

re: #286 Charles Johnson

I think it cheapens the valid arguments against occupation to throw around terms like “apartheid.” The real South African apartheid was brutal and inhuman far beyond anything going on in the West Bank or Gaza.

I agree the situation is very bad for a lot of Palestinians. But it is not apartheid.

And of course, that is a reasonable response, since throwing the term around promiscuously cheapens it. I do point out that many observers have used that term for the social system in the southern US up until about 1965…and that was nothing near as bad as what you have in either 1985 South Africa or modern Gaza. I do happen to think that the situations do have some similarity, even if the IDF is not like the SADF which was engaged in wholesale slaughter at points. Israel, for better of worse, is engaged in systematic political and social seperation where the Arab minority is denied civil and political rights that Israelis enjoy. Meanwhile, some (maybe much) of the Arab minority has taken actions to murder and terrorize their Jewish neighbors.

I’ll be honest…I have no freaking clue how to unravel this Gordian Knot.

Until that is addressed, the conflict cannot and will not end.

300 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 4:09:26pm

re: #218 TedStriker

Russians have always struck me as the “I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees” type; that seems to throw a monkey wrench into any scenario like what Dr. Lizardo put out there.

See, now my read on Russia is they are just not comfortable unless they have autocrats running the place. Whether Czars, Politburo or Putin they love being relieved of the responsibility of making their own decisions.

That’s worse than being on your knees.

301 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 4:09:56pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I did not know this.

I just like saying “barnacle penises”

302 goddamnedfrank  Jul 17, 2014 4:11:14pm

re: #286 Charles Johnson

I think it cheapens the valid arguments against occupation to throw around terms like “apartheid.” The real South African apartheid was brutal and inhuman far beyond anything going on in the West Bank or Gaza.

I agree the situation is very bad for a lot of Palestinians. But it is not apartheid.

I agree. At the same time Netanyahu’s recent statement basically crapping all over a two state solution is deeply troubling. Obama’s statements that any future Palestinian State would necessarily be demilitarized wasn’t good enough, and at the time Bibi blatantly lied about them, focusing on the ‘67 borders comment and ignoring the part about mutually agreed upon swaps. But now he’s come out and openly declared that Israel will never give up control of the lands West of the river Jordan, and if not averted the future implications of such a policy will inevitably lead to an inherently non-democratic situation. This is a momentous shift away from decades of official Israeli policy.

303 dog philosopher  Jul 17, 2014 4:13:09pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

Barnacle penises can stretch to up to 8 times the length of their bodies..&..most are hermaphrodites!

i think this is just the kind of information that needs to be introduced into arguments with wingnuts on the twitter

304 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 4:13:45pm

re: #297 sattv4u2

K Kiddies

Gotta go burn some animal flesh

bbl

((well,,, that is,,, after I go run something over!!))
/

305 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 4:14:33pm

re: #303 dog philosopher

i think this is just the kind of information that needs to be introduced into arguments with wingnuts on the twitter

Not going to get many ‘hermaphroditic barnacles’ to the tweet.

306 Bubblehead II  Jul 17, 2014 4:14:35pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

My solution to Jerusalem is the best. Give everybody 72 hours to clear the area with whatever they can carry, then drop daisycutters on each major religiously significant site (don’t want to poison the wider area with a nuke). Whoever wants to can move back in and start from scratch under the auspices of a rubble allocation plan administered by the UN.

I think it solves a shitload of problems in one fell swoop. We can invite any interested religious leaders to stay with their sites until the end, which would be a bonus.

So we should take the Taliban route? Destroy what we don’t like. I think not.

307 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 4:15:34pm

re: #301 darthstar

I just like saying “barnacle penises”

I think you should tattoo that onto your forehead

Backwards, of course. That way you can read it looking in a mirror!!

308 CuriousLurker  Jul 17, 2014 4:16:32pm

re: #282 Decatur Deb

Odd that graphic should include English.

Not really, IMO. There are plenty of people who are concerned, but speak neither Arabic nor Hebrew and, as was mentioned upthread, there’s plenty of American money going to Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza every year, though for different purposes:

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $121 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance. […]

CRS Report for Congress - April 11, 2014 (PDF)

Aid to the West Bank & Gaza is intended for non-military assistance (though some very well may be diverted):

U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians

Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed approximately $5 billion in bilateral assistance to the Palestinians, who are among the world’s largest per capita recipients of international foreign
aid. Successive Administrations have requested aid for the Palestinians in apparent support of at least three major U.S. policy priorities of interest to Congress:

• Preventing terrorism against Israel from Hamas and other militant organizations.

• Fostering stability, prosperity, and self-governance in the West Bank that inclines Palestinians toward peaceful coexistence with Israel and a “two-state solution.”

• Meeting humanitarian needs.

Since June 2007, these U.S. policy priorities have crystallized around the factional and geographical split between the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank and Hamas in the Gaza Strip. Through its provision of aid to the Palestinians, the United States faces challenges in bolstering PA leaders in the West Bank without compromising their domestic popular appeal or encouraging authoritarian behavior. […]

CRS Report for Congress - September 30, 2013 (PDF)

Also:

The United States, through USAID, is the leading provider of bilateral development assistance to the Palestinians, supporting programs in the areas of democracy and governance; education; health and humanitarian assistance; private enterprise; and water resources and infrastructure.

usaid.gov

309 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 4:17:03pm

re: #302 goddamnedfrank

Yes, it’s enormously disturbing that Netanyahu has now basically admitted he never intended to support a two-state solution.

Netanyahu Finally Speaks His Mind | the Times of Israel

This is why it’s getting harder and harder for me to give Israel my unqualified support; the government has swung to the far right in a horrible way, and I no longer believe Netanyahu is acting in good faith. Haven’t for some time.

Attitudes and positions on both sides seem to be hardening more and more, and this can’t end well.

The bottom line is that we’re all just talking, and can’t affect anything about the situation. Until there’s a real impetus toward change in both Israeli and Palestinian society, the killing will go on as it’s been going on for eons already.

This has been the situation for my entire life.

310 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 4:17:18pm

re: #307 sattv4u2

I think you should tattoo that onto your forehead

Backwards, of course. That way you can read it looking in a mirror!!

It would be like a secret code !! The Da Rthstari Code.

311 sattv4u2  Jul 17, 2014 4:17:43pm

re: #306 Bubblehead II

So we should take the Taliban route? Destroy what we don’t like. I think not.

Worse

At least the Taliban wants to keep their OWN ” religiously significant site”. Our “friend” Botsplainer here just wants to nuke ALL religiously significant sites

312 Charles Johnson  Jul 17, 2014 4:18:10pm

Make sure you get your screenshots, stalkers.

313 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 4:18:24pm

re: #308 CuriousLurker

I’ve got be less subtle.

314 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 4:19:45pm

re: #268 NJDhockeyfan

Or else what? They already have the black box. They are probably cleaning up all the damning evidence they can find right now as well.

You always seem to want a quick and easy answer. Your comment reminds me of many of a similar nature during the Euromaiden demonstrations and then occupation of parts of Ukraine. I’m surprised you didn’t use the well-worn “sternly written letter” description too.

Do you think that maybe there can be some political positioning done by saying do not touch the evidence. It draws attention to it all, and puts a bit of pressure on Russia to and makes the world aware of Vlad’s games. It says we don’t trust the son-of-a-gun and and any reports as to what happened will be suspect.

Maybe you think we should have sent in some special forces to take them already. Is that it? I don’t get it.

315 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:21:14pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s enormously disturbing that Netanyahu has now basically admitted he never intended to support a two-state solution.

Netanyahu Finally Speaks His Mind | the Times of Israel

This is why it’s getting harder and harder for me to give Israel my unqualified support; the government has swung to the far right in a horrible way, and I no longer believe Netanyahu is acting in good faith. Haven’t for some time.

Attitudes and positions on both sides seem to be hardening more and more, and this can’t end well.

The bottom line is that we’re all just talking, and can’t affect anything about the situation. Until there’s a real impetus toward change in both Israeli and Palestinian society, the killing will go on as it’s been going on for eons already.

This has been the situation for my entire life.

Exactly why it is time to walk away. They are the only ones who can make peace. We cannot do it for them, and we have had no success in our attempts over the last 40 years.

This is like enabling a self destructive drunk. Your best intentions only make things worse.

316 KiTA  Jul 17, 2014 4:21:48pm

So Greenwald has “gone after” Israel now:

dailykos.com

This should be interesting to watch.

317 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:22:34pm

re: #312 Charles Johnson

Make sure you get your screenshots, stalkers.

heh!

Don’t forget me, boiler room boys. Been awhile since you had a thread complaining about me…

318 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 4:23:14pm

re: #302 goddamnedfrank

I agree. At the same time Netanyahu’s recent statement basically crapping all over a two state solution is deeply troubling. Obama’s statements that any future Palestinian State would necessarily be demilitarized wasn’t good enough, and at the time Bibi blatantly lied about them, focusing on the ‘67 borders comment and ignoring the part about mutually agreed upon swaps. But now he’s come out and openly declared that Israel will never give up control of the lands West of the river Jordan, and if not averted the future implications of such a policy will inevitably lead to an inherently non-democratic situation. This is a momentous shift away from decades of official Israeli policy.

When is he up for re-election? Hopefully he gets kicked to the curb. I never cared for him. I knew something like this would come to light. Unfortunately my suspicions were proven correct.

319 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 4:23:19pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

I support Israel’s right to exist. I don’t necessarily support some of the tactics/actions they’ve used to continue that existence.

320 goddamnedfrank  Jul 17, 2014 4:23:54pm

Re: Barnacle penises.

After mating season the penis is thrown away, and a new one is developed the next year.

Youtube Video

321 jamesfirecat  Jul 17, 2014 4:24:11pm

re: #109 Aunty Entity Dragon

You see it in many sci fi authors as they age. Some, like Orson Scott Card, never do anything else as a matter of fact.

Eric Flint is great if you want to buck this trend as his political views are decidedly left leaning.

322 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:25:28pm

re: #321 jamesfirecat

Eric Flint is great if you want to buck this trend as his political views are decidedly left leaning.

I love the 1632 series.

323 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 4:27:07pm

re: #320 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Video

You know damn well there’s some scientists somewhere trying to duplicate this process and it will be brough to you by the makers of Viagra.

324 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 4:28:29pm
325 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:28:42pm

re: #321 jamesfirecat

Eric Flint is great if you want to buck this trend as his political views are decidedly left leaning.

He actually writes a lot of the 1632 books with David Drake of Hammer’s Slammers fame.

326 jamesfirecat  Jul 17, 2014 4:29:31pm

re: #322 Aunty Entity Dragon

I love the 1632 series.

Fuck yes.

Also his work with David Weber (who is more conservative but clearly has no truck at all with “social conservatives”) in the Honorverse starting with Crown of Slaves is quite good, and Philosophical Strangler is good though I feel its climax is a bit of a let down unlike in Forward The Mage.

327 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:30:31pm

re: #324 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Damn.

I don’t need a crying spree right now.

328 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 4:31:22pm

re: #327 Aunty Entity Dragon

Damn.

I don’t need a crying spree right now.

Just a reminder to hold back the Godwins.

329 jamesfirecat  Jul 17, 2014 4:31:46pm

re: #325 Aunty Entity Dragon

He actually writes a lot of the 1632 books with David Drake of Hammer’s Slammers fame.

Are you sure you don’t mean David Weber of Honnor Harrington? Looked at my 1632 shelf and did not see Drake on any of the spines.

330 Jayleia  Jul 17, 2014 4:32:37pm

So, the other day some lizards mentioned the Girls und Panzer anime, and I found the Katyusha video.

It is now stuck in my head and I keep replaying the video. And I’m looking for an english version, either subbed or dubbed.

Damn you. :-)

331 CuriousLurker  Jul 17, 2014 4:33:09pm

re: #313 Decatur Deb

I’ve got be less subtle.

Sorry, but I just found out night before last that my mother (from whom I’ve been estranged for many years) died on March 31, so subtlety is pretty much gonna be lost on me till I finish grappling with all the old emotional baggage and my feelings on her passing.

Our relationship was lost decades ago, but she was still my mother. Now all opportunities for many kind of simple reconciliation or closure are lost.

Humans are contentious and stubborn and stupid and prideful, Israelis & Palestinians (and Americans) included. We ALL need to do better because NONE of us are getting out of here alive.

332 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:34:04pm

re: #326 jamesfirecat

Fuck yes.

Also his work with David Weber (who is more conservative but clearly has no truck at all with “social conservatives”) in the Honorverse starting with Crown of Slaves is quite good, and Philosophical Strangler is good though I feel its climax is a bit of a let down unlike in Forward The Mage.

Commander Cantrell in the West Indies

is on the shelves now :)

333 wrenchwench  Jul 17, 2014 4:34:41pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

{{{CL}}}

334 jamesfirecat  Jul 17, 2014 4:35:54pm

re: #332 Aunty Entity Dragon

is on the shelves now :)

It’s already on my iPad, it’s okay (maybe I have not gotten to best parts yet) my favorites in the series (as defined by the ones I want to read most frequently) are the original, Baltic War (ironclads fuck yes) and Saxon Uprising.

335 goddamnedfrank  Jul 17, 2014 4:36:01pm

re: #318 GlutenFreeJesus

When is he up for re-election? Hopefully he gets kicked to the curb. I never cared for him. I knew something like this would come to light. Unfortunately my suspicions were proven correct.

Netanyahu’s been a deeply cynical and disingenuous cock knocker since at least prior to the Rabin assassination, where he played a significant and purposeful role in fomenting hatred against both the PM’s administration and against Yitzhak personally.

I prefer to attribute his ability to reenter politics at all to the forgiving nature of Israeli society.

336 CuriousLurker  Jul 17, 2014 4:36:21pm

re: #333 wrenchwench

{{{CL}}}

Thanks {{{ww}}}.

I’m just not in the mood for this today, so I’m gonna go for now.

337 wrenchwench  Jul 17, 2014 4:36:50pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

Let there be a little consolation in improving on the previous generation. And giving the next one a better start.

338 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:38:38pm

re: #328 Pie-onist Overlord

Just a reminder to hold back the Godwins.

I don’t recall Godwinning anybody. I did mention that some young people who haven’t paid attention in history classes said some very, very stupid and horrible things on twitter advocating genocide.

I have never even remotely suggested that those comments are the policy of the Israeli government, nor do I suggest that Israel engages in ethnic cleansing. Anybody who saw or read what that actually entailed in the Balkans would throw those comments out the proverbial window.

Israel has her own sins, and we have ours.

339 Bubblehead II  Jul 17, 2014 4:39:37pm

re: #311 sattv4u2

Worse

At least the Taliban wants to keep their OWN ” religiously significant site”. Our “friend” Botsplainer here just wants to nuke ALL religiously significant sites

Nah, he just want to carpet bomb them with conventional explosives. Reclaim the real Estate after-words. Mass casualties are of no concern.

In other words, he’s scum.

340 wrenchwench  Jul 17, 2014 4:39:40pm
View 822 new Tweets

I can’t keep up.

341 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 4:39:44pm

McCain says we should arm the Ukranians against the Russians

342 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:40:18pm

re: #329 jamesfirecat

Are you sure you don’t mean David Weber of Honnor Harrington? Looked at my 1632 shelf and did not see Drake on any of the spines.

Yeah, it’s Weber, not Drake.

343 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 4:40:45pm

re: #324 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

That photo reminds me of a time long ago. I think it was in third grade which would have been like 1963 or so. A student who had a father that was in World War 2 had a photo book of death camp photos his father had taken and compiled his and from other soldiers that had to go into the camps.

I will never forget it. Photo after photo of things like those rings. Glasses, other personal items. But what stood out the most was the images of bodies stacked like wood on trains and outside of “the showers” from mass gassing and then being readied to be taken and disposed. There were also tons of images of the survivors. Thin frail and being freed. For a kid that was maybe 9 at the time, it left a real strong impression of what humans are capable of.

Every time I hear a Holacaust denier spout off I want to be there to slap them silly.

344 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 17, 2014 4:41:11pm

re: #341 darthstar

but he voted for said invasion…

345 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 4:41:47pm

re: #338 Aunty Entity Dragon

I don’t recall Godwinning anybody. I did mention that some young people who haven’t paid attention in history classes said some very, very stupid and horrible things on twitter advocating genocide.

I have never even remotely suggested that those comments are the policy of the Israeli government, nor do I suggest that Israel engages in ethnic cleansing. Anybody who saw or read what that actually entailed in the Balkans would throw those comments out the proverbial window.

Israel has her own sins, and we have ours.

Why would you think I am specifically directing that at you? I meant in general, not here at LGF. I have seen a bunch of Godwinning all over Twitter, had to unfollow a bunch of people because of it.

346 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 4:41:56pm

re: #330 Jayleia

So, the other day some lizards mentioned the Girls und Panzer anime, and I found the Katyusha video.

It is now stuck in my head and I keep replaying the video. And I’m looking for an english version, either subbed or dubbed.

Damn you. :-)

Here’s the lyrics in Cyrillic Russian, Latin alphabet Russian and English.

I’m stuck on that song as well. You might also enjoy this one.

Youtube Video

347 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 4:44:18pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

Sorry, but I just found out night before last that my mother (from whom I’ve been estranged for many years) died on March 31, so subtlety is pretty much gonna be lost on me till I finish grappling with all the old emotional baggage and my feelings on her passing.

Our relationship was lost decades ago, but she was still my mother. Now all opportunities for many kind of simple reconciliation or closure are lost.

Humans are contentious and stubborn and stupid and prideful, Israelis & Palestinians (and Americans) included. We ALL need to do better because NONE of us are getting out of here alive.

Real sorry to hear that. Do take care CL. I hope you can find inner peace with it all.

348 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 4:45:00pm
349 darthstar  Jul 17, 2014 4:45:14pm

re: #344 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

but he voted for said invasion…

Hush, you!

350 A Mom Anon  Jul 17, 2014 4:45:33pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

Having been estranged from both friends and family for extended times, I can relate and I am sorry for your loss. (((hugs))) The family thing is harder, I’m not sure if it can ever be made right again. The friend thing isn’t as difficult and I’m glad we’re getting a second chance.

We just found out a friend we drifted away from has stage 3b lung cancer and stage 2 emphysema. He’s in his late 40’s. He has a 5 percent chance of making it past 5 yrs. Went to see him in the hospital over the weekend, and he burst into tears when he saw me. All the reasons why we drifted apart went away, I mean really, it’s just not fucking important anymore.

I hope you can find a way to make peace with all this and find some way to move forward. It sucks, and I am sorry CL.

351 Killgore Trout  Jul 17, 2014 4:46:22pm

The siren shuffle
Liveleak Video

352 wrenchwench  Jul 17, 2014 4:46:35pm
353 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:46:41pm

re: #345 Pie-onist Overlord

Why would you think I am specifically directing that at you? I meant in general, not here at LGF. I have seen a bunch of Godwinning all over Twitter, had to unfollow a bunch of people because of it.

Apologies. I try to be careful and nuanced in my comments on Israel, and some folks love nothing more then hitting any critic, no matter how mild with the “Anti Semitic Nazi loving baby in the oven shoveler” epithet to shut down and shame any and all discussion. I have never seen that here, but I have seen it elsewhere. I did not mean to imply you were being unfair.

354 sagehen  Jul 17, 2014 4:47:18pm

re: #322 Aunty Entity Dragon

I love the 1632 series.

“We must open trade relations with the Ottoman Empire immediately!

“Never mind when it happened in our original timeline, we have to do it now. TODAY!! I want my coffeeeee!!!”

355 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 4:47:51pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

Sorry, but I just found out night before last that my mother (from whom I’ve been estranged for many years) died on March 31, so subtlety is pretty much gonna be lost on me till I finish grappling with all the old emotional baggage and my feelings on her passing.

Our relationship was lost decades ago, but she was still my mother. Now all opportunities for many kind of simple reconciliation or closure are lost.

Humans are contentious and stubborn and stupid and prideful, Israelis & Palestinians (and Americans) included. We ALL need to do better because NONE of us are getting out of here alive.

I lost my dad a couple of months ago. We weren’t close at all and I haven’t grieved a single moment. He was a an acquaintance, nothing more or nothing less.

I’m sorry for your loss but it’s quite alright to just let it go.

Forgive me if I’ve overstepped my bounds but I don’t believe you are obligated to give parents that failed to be parents any great emotion.

356 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:48:12pm

re: #354 sagehen

“We must open trade relations with the Ottoman Empire immediately!

“Never mind when it happened in our original timeline, we have to do it now. TODAY!! I want my coffeeeee!!!”

Hell, they are still at war with half of Germany and France.

357 blueraven  Jul 17, 2014 4:51:25pm

Note Putin is not even trying to say the Ukrainians shot down the plane, just that they “bear responsibility”

He is in deep shit and he knows it.

358 b_sharp  Jul 17, 2014 4:52:41pm

re: #341 darthstar

[Embedded content]

McCain says we should arm the Ukranians against the Russians

John Candy died, man.

359 Romantic Heretic  Jul 17, 2014 4:53:10pm

re: #343 ObserverArt

That photo reminds me of a time long ago. I think it was in third grade which would have been like 1963 or so. A student who had a father that was in World War 2 had a photo book of death camp photos his father had taken and compiled his and from other soldiers that had to go into the camps.

I will never forget it. Photo after photo of things like those rings. Glasses, other personal items. But what stood out the most was the images of bodies stacked like wood on trains and outside of “the showers” from mass gassing and then being readied to be taken and disposed. There were also tons of images of the survivors. Thin frail and being freed. For a kid that was maybe 9 at the time, it left a real strong impression of what humans are capable of.

Every time I hear a Holacaust denier spout off I want to be there to slap them silly.

I remember when I was about the same age I got up from bed one night and went into the living room to ask for a glass of water.

My parents were watching Judgement at Nuremburg. I turned to look at the TV just in time to see a bulldozer shove emaciated corpses into a mass grave.

I didn’t sleep that night.

360 ObserverArt  Jul 17, 2014 4:54:37pm

Time to step away. Be cool everyone…let’s not get all our nerves too frayed. The day has been tough enough.

361 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 4:56:38pm

re: #360 ObserverArt

Time to step away. Be cool everyone…let’s not get all our nerves too frayed. The day has been tough enough.

Agreed.

362 The War TARDIS  Jul 17, 2014 4:57:01pm

My Dad works at Boeing, and he was pissed to hear about this.

He wants to see Russia beaten to a pulp.

I’m slightly more rational. I want to see an armed intervention against the Anti-Ukrainian terrorists in the Novorussiya region.

363 wrenchwench  Jul 17, 2014 4:57:14pm
364 CuriousLurker  Jul 17, 2014 4:57:29pm

re: #347 ObserverArt

re: #350 A Mom Anon

re: #355 Romantic Heretic

Thank you all, including those who dinged their support.

365 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 4:58:16pm

re: #364 CuriousLurker

Thank you all, including those who dinged their support.

We are Lizardim. We are here for each other. Ideology isn’t as important as family.

366 jamesfirecat  Jul 17, 2014 4:58:22pm

re: #356 Aunty Entity Dragon

Hell, they are still at war with half of Germany and France.

What books have you been reading?

If they’ve been at war with France it has been a very cold war since 1634 and the battle of Ahrensbök where France lost most of its ability to project military power.

367 b_sharp  Jul 17, 2014 4:58:40pm

Crappy day is crappy.

On top of it all, Johnny Winter died.

368 wrenchwench  Jul 17, 2014 4:59:55pm

re: #365 thedopefishlives

We are Lizardim. We are here for each other. Ideology isn’t as important as family.

Especially chosen family. OK, not especially, but including.

369 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 4:59:59pm

re: #357 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Note Putin is not even trying to say the Ukrainians shot down the plane, just that they “bear responsibility”

He is in deep shit and he knows it.

Putin’s trying to deflect, and frankly, not doing a very good job at it. Like you said, he’s in deep shit with this incident, and if he’s as cunning as people think he is, right now he’s giving orders to some mysterious henchmen to find out who the f**k gave the command to shoot down the plane and make them go away - permanently.

But maybe he’s not as cunning as people think, and this is gonna come back and bite him in the ass big time.

370 b_sharp  Jul 17, 2014 5:03:24pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

Sorry, but I just found out night before last that my mother (from whom I’ve been estranged for many years) died on March 31, so subtlety is pretty much gonna be lost on me till I finish grappling with all the old emotional baggage and my feelings on her passing.

Our relationship was lost decades ago, but she was still my mother. Now all opportunities for many kind of simple reconciliation or closure are lost.

Humans are contentious and stubborn and stupid and prideful, Israelis & Palestinians (and Americans) included. We ALL need to do better because NONE of us are getting out of here alive.

I’m so sorry to hear that, hon. You and your mother are in my thoughts.

371 goddamnedfrank  Jul 17, 2014 5:04:05pm

re: #357 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Note Putin is not even trying to say the Ukrainians shot down the plane, just that they “bear responsibility”

He is in deep shit and he knows it.

These statements by Putin are just so much more ineptness on top of ineptness. He knows his people shot down a civilian airliner, but this kind of retarded, ham handed blame shifting just makes him look like even more of an asshole. He needs a swift punch to the throat before he fucks Russia’s PR standing in the world over even more.

372 Bubblehead II  Jul 17, 2014 5:06:22pm

Night Lizards. Been in and out today and with all that has gone down, well I am invoking the I.F. rule before I get myself in trouble.

Sleep well and may the Deity of you choice smile down upon you and yours.

373 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 5:07:01pm

re: #372 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards. Been in and out today and with all that has gone down, well I am invoking the I.F. rule before I get myself in trouble.

Sleep well and may the Deity of you choice smile down upon you and yours.

I have a feeling there will be many more similar signoffs in the ensuing hours. It has been a day for the record books.

374 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 5:07:31pm

I just looked in on the thread I posted this morning about Nestle pumping out bottled water in a drought-stricken region and there is that fucking troll again HURR HURR FREE MARKETS!!!! WHY SHOULDN’T THEY BOTTLE IT & MAKE MONEYS INSTEAD OF TEH PROLES TAKING A SHOWER MOAR THEN ONCE A WEEK!!!!!!

375 teleskiguy  Jul 17, 2014 5:08:46pm

re: #240 Botsplainer

My wife says I’m an asshole the way I express myself most of the time, and she actually has to sleep with me. I guess I’m even worse when anonymous.

Asshole is putting it mildly. You’re being an ignorant cock punch and I don’t know why the fuck your pea brain still has an account at LGF.

Fuck you very much, you cock smoking fuck hole.

376 bratwurst  Jul 17, 2014 5:09:59pm

He doesn’t know how right he was…WLS in Chicago pre-empted his show completely today for wall-to-wall news coverage!

377 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 5:10:59pm

BECAUSE THEY ARE INFORMING THE NEXT OF KIN YOU FUCK HEAD.

378 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 5:12:25pm

re: #377 Pie-onist Overlord

BECAUSE THEY ARE INFORMING THE NEXT OF KIN YOU FUCK HEAD.

[Embedded content]

He has been derping all day about this. I’d ask if he has anything better to do, but to a wingnut, NOTHING is more important than derping.

379 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 5:13:05pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I did not know this.

Perfect.

Needed.

380 Dr Lizardo  Jul 17, 2014 5:13:54pm

re: #371 goddamnedfrank

These statements by Putin are just so much more ineptness on top of ineptness. He knows his people shot down a civilian airliner, but this kind of retarded, ham handed blame shifting just makes him look like even more of an asshole. He needs a swift punch to the throat before he fucks Russia’s PR standing in the world over even more.

I’m thinking it might be a little too late for that. This dumbass stunt that cost the lives of almost 300 people is going to make the Russians look like barbarians in the eyes of the world.

80 of the dead were children….and no matter how much Putin tries to spin or deflect or blame someone else, Putin will be remembered for this.

Not a great legacy, to put it lightly.

381 austin_blue  Jul 17, 2014 5:14:30pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

My solution to Jerusalem is the best. Give everybody 72 hours to clear the area with whatever they can carry, then drop daisycutters on each major religiously significant site (don’t want to poison the wider area with a nuke). Whoever wants to can move back in and start from scratch under the auspices of a rubble allocation plan administered by the UN.

I think it solves a shitload of problems in one fell swoop. We can invite any interested religious leaders to stay with their sites until the end, which would be a bonus.

Oops, hit the wrong button. My bad, and corrected by hitting “-“. Sorry.

382 thedopefishlives  Jul 17, 2014 5:14:59pm

re: #381 austin_blue

Oops, hit the wrong button. My bad, and corrected by hitting “-“. Sorry.

We all make mistakes.

383 Archangelus  Jul 17, 2014 5:15:49pm

384 teleskiguy  Jul 17, 2014 5:16:30pm

I have several friends traveling in Europe at present, one of them is living in Poland for the summer. If a war breaks out, I very much fear for their safety.

@pourmecoffee gave me the teensiest scrap of levity earlier.

385 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 5:16:38pm

re: #375 teleskiguy

Asshole is putting it mildly. You’re being an ignorant cock punch and I don’t know why the fuck your pea brain still has an account at LGF.

Fuck you very much, you cock smoking fuck hole.

Um…wow.

386 Decatur Deb  Jul 17, 2014 5:16:38pm

re: #343 ObserverArt

That photo reminds me of a time long ago. I think it was in third grade which would have been like 1963 or so. A student who had a father that was in World War 2 had a photo book of death camp photos his father had taken and compiled his and from other soldiers that had to go into the camps.

I will never forget it. Photo after photo of things like those rings. Glasses, other personal items. But what stood out the most was the images of bodies stacked like wood on trains and outside of “the showers” from mass gassing and then being readied to be taken and disposed. There were also tons of images of the survivors. Thin frail and being freed. For a kid that was maybe 9 at the time, it left a real strong impression of what humans are capable of.

Every time I hear a Holacaust denier spout off I want to be there to slap them silly.

If you haven’t seen it, Night and Fog, a documentary by Alain Resnais, sponsored by the French government, captures all of that anyone needs to see.

en.wikipedia.org

corrected: Film was not government-sponsored.

387 Aunty Entity Dragon  Jul 17, 2014 5:17:27pm

After that, time to step away and call it a night. :(

388 Skip Intro  Jul 17, 2014 5:18:24pm

re: #376 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

He doesn’t know how right he was…WLS in Chicago pre-empted his show completely today for wall-to-wall news coverage!

Maybe they could get some paid advertising that way instead of Limbaugh’s PSAs.

389 teleskiguy  Jul 17, 2014 5:19:44pm

re: #385 Aunty Entity Dragon

Um…wow.

Pretty heavy-handed, I know. It’s been a bad day for me (not just what’s going on in the world, I had a pretty bad day today) and I guess I was venting.

Dude is being a fucking moron in this thread, truth be told.

390 austin_blue  Jul 17, 2014 5:24:20pm

The continuation of the Malaysian flight from KL was to a big International AIDS conference in Australia. Lots of activists and researchers on board. Rumors put the numbers at 154 Dutch, 23 Americans, and a bunch of Aussies/Brits, many returning from or going to Oz on vacation.

Royal Dutch Shell has a big office in KL, too.

Bad shit, all around. This little popinjay Russian running the “resistance movement” in eastern Ukraine has go a shitpot of blood on his hands.

391 bratwurst  Jul 17, 2014 5:25:09pm

re: #388 Skip Intro

Maybe they could get some paid advertising that way instead of Limbaugh’s PSAs.

I am sorry to have to admit that the number of PSAs during Limbaugh’s show on WLS has gone down a lot in the last few months.

Sure, many of the ads are for wingnut products like Tom Ridge’s Life-L0ck (I won’t spell it correctly anymore because last time I did I got targeted advertising from them for DAYS) and Newsmax TV (call your cable company and demand it!), or dubious herbal supplements…but somehow Cumulus is managing to sell a lot more of the time.

392 blueraven  Jul 17, 2014 5:25:21pm

re: #389 teleskiguy

Pretty heavy-handed, I know. It’s been a bad day for me (not just what’s going on in the world, I had a pretty bad day today) and I guess I was venting.

Dude is being a fucking moron in this thread, truth be told.

The last sentence sounds like a homophobic slur.
Maybe you didn’t intend it, but it comes off as such. A bit over the top, yes.

393 Botsplainer  Jul 17, 2014 5:26:30pm

From the Guardian:

The International AIDS Society has released a statement, confirming that a number of the passengers were on their way to the international AIDS conference in Melbourne.

The International AIDS Society today expresses its sincere sadness at receiving news that a number of colleagues and friends en route to attend the 20th International AIDS Conference taking place in Melbourne, Australia, were on board the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight that has crashed over Ukraine earlier today.

At this incredibly sad and sensitive time the IAS stands with our international family and sends condolences to the loved ones of those who have been lost to this tragedy.
.

394 teleskiguy  Jul 17, 2014 5:29:15pm

re: #392 blueraven

The last sentence sounds like a homophobic slur.
Maybe you didn’t intend it, but it comes off as such. A bit over the top, yes.

I heard that last sentence verbatim on a Queens of the Stone Age live album, and it stuck in my memory as a really nasty thing to say to somebody. There’s no homophobia when I say it, I say it as a nasty thing to say to somebody. I’ll refrain from using that slur here from now on.

395 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 5:34:16pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

I’m way behind on the thread.

CL, so very sorry.

396 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 5:35:32pm

re: #341 darthstar

[Embedded content]

McCain says we should arm the Ukranians against the Russians

Liar.

397 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 17, 2014 5:36:08pm

re: #375 teleskiguy

Asshole is putting it mildly. You’re being an ignorant cock punch and I don’t know why the fuck your pea brain still has an account at LGF.

Fuck you very much, you cock smoking fuck hole.

You win The Internets

398 KiTA  Jul 17, 2014 5:36:51pm

re: #357 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Note Putin is not even trying to say the Ukrainians shot down the plane, just that they “bear responsibility”

He is in deep shit and he knows it.

And just how did those “rebels” get anti-air weaponry, hm? Putin has well and truly stepped in it this time.

399 Skip Intro  Jul 17, 2014 5:39:39pm

re: #391 bratwurst

Damn, this day is just wall to wall bad news.

400 Floral Giraffe  Jul 17, 2014 5:44:03pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

{{{CL}}} Many hugs to you!

401 Stanley Sea  Jul 17, 2014 5:44:23pm

Everyone is going upstairs, but this comment belongs here.

I was here during the flotilla. And I can tell you, no matter what you feel about Israel or Gaza, this place is incredibly more civil right now.

And I am thankful.

402 Floral Giraffe  Jul 17, 2014 5:47:01pm

re: #401 Stanley Sea

I miss the rooster, though….

403 b_sharp  Jul 17, 2014 5:48:41pm

re: #402 Floral Giraffe

I miss the rooster, though….

Who?

404 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 5:54:09pm

re: #403 b_sharp

Who?

There was streaming video of a location somewhere over there where you could hear a rooster every morning.

405 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 17, 2014 5:55:25pm

re: #375 teleskiguy

Asshole is putting it mildly. You’re being an ignorant cock punch and I don’t know why the fuck your pea brain still has an account at LGF.

Fuck you very much, you cock smoking fuck hole.

Actually, she doesn’t have to sleep with you. Suck on that for awhile.

406 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Jul 17, 2014 6:08:55pm

re: #190 goddamnedfrank

I don’t care who does it or how many times. Nothing changes what it reveals.

407 Eventual Carrion  Jul 17, 2014 6:33:17pm

re: #320 goddamnedfrank

Re: Barnacle penises.

[Embedded content]

Detachable Barnacle Penis

Good band name.

408 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 17, 2014 7:28:04pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

Just saw this… {{{CL}}} We can only do our best, The strength good character provides for those who have it will support you.

409 Ryan King  Jul 17, 2014 8:22:10pm

re: #115 Botsplainer

Asshole clown.


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