Amtrak Trainer: Outside Force Likely Cause of Crash - UPDATE: Asst. Conductor: Engineer Said Train Had Been Struck

A possible explanation?
US News • Views: 36,144

The Amtrak conductor who trained the engineer of Amtrak 188 has told the Tampa Bay affiliate of ABC News he thinks it’s likely the derailment was caused by a projectile of some kind striking the engineer’s compartment window. (Video at the link.)

“My take on the whole thing is there must have been impact on the window to get that kind of damage,” Callanan tells ABC Action News in an interview recorded overnight in Tampa. “The whole train, including the engine, has what we call “FRA Type II glazing,” which is essentially bullet-proof glass, throughout the whole train. So it takes a lot of force to even crack the window,” Callanan said. “And when I saw that on the right-hand side of the engine, it looks like it struck something and I don’t think it was the guy hitting his head.”

Callanan says he’s been talking with colleagues along the East Coast, who describe the engineer, who operates the train, as “a very good engineer.”

What’s more, Callanan says he doesn’t think an engineer would speed, let along double the speed limit to above 100 miles per hour, just to make up 10 or 20 minutes.

“It’s not worth it,” says Callanan.

So what happened? Callanan and his colleagues have a theory they don’t think is all that far-fetched.

“We have had our trains stoned before. All kinds of stuff happens on the Northeast corridor. If you name it, I’ve seen it. Baltimore, we’ve had children stoning the train, throwing rocks at the train. That particular area, North Philly, is a bad area,” says Callanan.

Here’s a closeup of the front of the train after the crash, and the window does appear to be damaged right in front of where the engineer sits.

It’s an interesting theory, and in fact, two other trains were indeed hit by projectiles on the same evening, shortly before Amtrak 188 crashed, and conductor Brandon Bostian reportedly suffered a concussion and needed 14 stitches for a head wound.

Please note that I’m not endorsing this theory. It’s probably just coincidence, but the fact that two other trains in the same area were hit and damaged by projectiles on the same night takes it out of “crazy fantasy” territory.

UPDATE at 5/15/15 12:43:10 pm by Charles Johnson

A Reuters report has more details that could support this theory: Burst of Speed Before Amtrak Train Crash at Heart of Investigation.

Charles Culver, a certified conductor and engineer based in Texas who is not connected to the investigation, said the throttle of the locomotive that Bostian was operating has eight settings, with each click forward accelerating the train. The eighth setting is the highest.

Culver, who runs a rail consulting firm, said it does not take much force to move the throttle forward and it was possible the engineer could have fallen and moved the throttle. Passenger trains, unlike freight trains, can increase speed rapidly, he said.

“In order to increase the speed as much as it was increased in this case, you would have had to really, really move the throttle,” Culver said. “Frankly, I am puzzled about the whole thing. It’s not like it was a few miles per hour over the speed limit.”

Culver said it was possible the engineer lost awareness of the train’s location due to some medical condition, such as a stroke.

UPDATE at 5/15/15 3:28:51 pm by Charles Johnson

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380 comments
1 Iwouldprefernotto  May 15, 2015 12:11:51pm

Perhaps, but this one has “truther” written all over it.

2 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 12:12:52pm

hmmmmm

3 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 12:13:13pm

“THUG kids!!!!”

And….

See… we don’t need infrastructure improvements!!!!!!

4 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 12:15:33pm

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Sentencing Verdict Live Feed boston.cbslocal.com

*24 page verdict form.
*Yes on numerous counts so far.

5 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 12:17:12pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

Please note that I’m not endorsing this theory. It’s probably just coincidence, but the fact that two other trains in the same area were hit and damaged by projectiles on the same night takes it out of “crazy fantasy” territory.

6 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:19:16pm

re: #4 Dr. Matt

But proper application of charges for the death penalty appears to be the case.

7 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 12:19:44pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

Perhaps, but this one has “truther” written all over it.

A “truther” would claim this was false-flag operation that was orchestrated by the gummint.

8 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 12:20:25pm

Charles,

I posted a better view of the photo a few threads back. Via getty:

gettyimages.com

Shows a much clearer view of the front of the train, and the windshield damage is on the side where the engineer works from.

9 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 12:20:40pm

I don’t think “truther” is a fair description of this.

10 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 12:21:48pm

It certainly raises an eyebrow.

11 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 12:21:55pm

Burst of Speed Before Amtrak Train Crash at Heart of Investigation | Reuters

Charles Culver, a certified conductor and engineer based in Texas who is not connected to the investigation, said the throttle of the locomotive that Bostian was operating has eight settings, with each click forward accelerating the train. The eighth setting is the highest.

Culver, who runs a rail consulting firm, said it does not take much force to move the throttle forward and it was possible the engineer could have fallen and moved the throttle. Passenger trains, unlike freight trains, can increase speed rapidly, he said.

“In order to increase the speed as much as it was increased in this case, you would have had to really, really move the throttle,” Culver said. “Frankly, I am puzzled about the whole thing. It’s not like it was a few miles per hour over the speed limit.”

Culver said it was possible the engineer lost awareness of the train’s location due to some medical condition, such as a stroke.

12 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:21:58pm

At least one death which would qualify for death penalty.

13 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 12:22:04pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Projectile could be anything, including debris on the track kicked up by other passing trains. All this will have to be sorted out by the NTSB, including what exactly struck those other trains (one a SEPTA, the other an earlier Acela).

14 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 12:23:25pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

I don’t think “truther” is a fair description of this.

I agree. Not all. This story merely provides a possible explanation as the cause of the accident. The operative word is “possible”.

15 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 12:24:56pm

I have problems with the death penalty, but I would have no problems if Tsarnaev is sentenced to death.

16 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 12:26:04pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

I don’t think “truther” is a fair description of this.

agreed.
Throwing around the term “truther” at this very early stage of the investigation implies “my mind is made up already who’s at fault”.

17 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  May 15, 2015 12:26:32pm

re: #12 Justanotherhuman

responsible for the death of Martin Richard, who was particularly vulnerable due to youth UNANIMOUSLY PROVED

Huh?

18 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 12:27:26pm

re: #17 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

That’s the kid that was killed. The bomb was placed right by him.

19 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  May 15, 2015 12:29:18pm

re: #18 GlutenFreeJesus

OK, just didn’t understand the sentence.

“…vulnerable due to UNANIMOUSLY PROVED”

20 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:29:37pm

re: #17 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

A child, 8 yrs old.

wcvb.com

21 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 12:29:46pm

No, the fact that two other trains were hit by objects in the same area and time frame and it looks like some object struck Amtrak 188 doesn’t mean anything. Occam’s razor demands that the engineer was on meth because of The Gays™ proclivities in that direction.//

NB4 Chuckles.

22 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 12:30:21pm

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is sentenced to death.

23 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:31:05pm

re: #22 Dr. Matt

Not surprising.

24 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 12:31:36pm

re: #15 Timothy Watson

I have problems with the death penalty, but I would have no problems if Tsarnaev is sentenced to death.

I would. I really think we should stop allowing the foolish, destructive conservatives to kill people. Homicide should be off the table.

25 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:32:07pm

Tsarnaev’s appeals will go on until he’s an old man, no doubt.

26 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 12:33:38pm


The Price We Pay for Conservative Scorn of Amtrak

First, there’s the site of the crash itself, which the New York Times reported is at roughly the same location as another spectacular train derailment in which 79 people died - in 1943.

The curve ultimately proved not to be the key factor in that disaster, but it does raise this question: Why is that curve there in the first place, some 72 years later? Why has there not been an effort to rebuild that curve so that trains could move through that area safely at higher speeds?

The answer to that question is easy: conservative scorn for Amtrak, which has been under sustained attack almost from the time it was created, and which has never received the levels of investment in tracks and rail cars that would be appropriate for a national passenger rail system.

Interestingly, the Republican committee report on the appropriation for the Department of Transportation had far more to say about the pay of workers serving food on the trains than it did about needed investments to ensure trains could operate safely.

27 Eclectic Cyborg  May 15, 2015 12:36:50pm

Why is it that almost every other developed nation can create and maintain a respectable rail system except us?

28 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 12:37:40pm

re: #27 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is it that almost every other developed nation can create and maintain a respectable rail system except us?

Easy answer: It starts with ‘G’. Ends with a ‘P’. And, there is an ‘O’ in the middle.

29 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:38:03pm

He’s going to be in solitary confinement in a SuperMax prison which was described as “hell on earth”.

30 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 12:38:19pm

re: #24 No Country For Old Haters

I would. I really think we should stop allowing the foolish, destructive conservatives to kill people. Homicide should be off the table.

Which conservatives?

Are you saying that there are no crimes for which the death penalty is appropriate?

31 Eclectic Cyborg  May 15, 2015 12:39:28pm

re: #28 Dr. Matt

Easy answer: It starts with ‘G’. Ends with a ‘P’. And, there is an ‘O’ in the middle.

It’s just amazing they’ve been able to thwart it for so long. On most things like that Dems eventually find a way.

32 Skip Intro  May 15, 2015 12:39:31pm

Amtrak Conductor’s Trainer?

Say what?

33 Drive By Commenter  May 15, 2015 12:39:59pm

re: #27 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is it that almost every other developed nation can create and maintain a respectable rail system except us?

It’s part of our “Exceptionalism”.

34 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 12:40:30pm

re: #19 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Ah… Yeah the jury unanimously agreed that he was basically extra vulnerable due to his age.

35 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 12:40:42pm

re: #32 Skip Intro

Amtrak Conductor’s Trainer?

Say what?

Yeah, I just corrected that to “engineer’s trainer.”

36 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 12:40:44pm

re: #30 Timothy Watson

Which conservatives?

Are you saying that there are no crimes for which the death penalty is appropriate?

The insane Conservatives who enjoy executing people. Thirst for blood isn’t something civilized people are into, but most of the regressive Conservatives are.

None. If you support killing people, you’re part of the problem.

37 William Lewis  May 15, 2015 12:40:48pm

re: #15 Timothy Watson

I have problems with the death penalty, but I would have no problems if Tsarnaev is sentenced to death.

I still do because any use of it justifies it to those who use it to commit state sanctioned murder wholesale (looking at you, Texas). There is no application of the death penalty that is without serious flaws and can not be accepted as appropriate in any circumstance, not even the “perfect candidate & perfect proof” case such as this.

edit:clarification.

38 Skip Intro  May 15, 2015 12:40:56pm

re: #27 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is it that almost every other developed nation can create and maintain a respectable rail system except us?

They’re all godless socialist communist countries who hate the baby Jesus, that’s why.

You never saw Jesus riding on a train, did you?

39 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 12:41:44pm

re: #27 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is it that almost every other developed nation can create and maintain a respectable rail system except us?

Because we are (the) exceptional

/

40 allegro  May 15, 2015 12:42:30pm

re: #30 Timothy Watson

Which conservatives?

Are you saying that there are no crimes for which the death penalty is appropriate?

I’ll say it. It’s entirely unnecessary, expensive, and pointless regardless of the crime. It’s murder and reduces all of us morally.

41 Eclectic Cyborg  May 15, 2015 12:43:23pm

Does it ultimately cost more to keep a man in prison for life or execute him?

42 wrenchwench  May 15, 2015 12:43:32pm

re: #36 No Country For Old Haters

The insane Conservatives who enjoy executing people. Thirst for blood isn’t something civilized people are into, but most of the regressive Conservatives are.

None. If you support killing people, you’re part of the problem.

But if you don’t, you’re not on the jury. That makes it difficult to get around that punishment, sometimes.

43 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 12:43:44pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

Yeah, I just corrected that to “engineer’s trainer.”

first paragraph, too.

twice.

44 danarchy  May 15, 2015 12:44:12pm

re: #24 No Country For Old Haters

I would. I really think we should stop allowing the foolish, destructive conservatives to kill people. Homicide should be off the table.

Sorry but support for the death penalty runs over 60% in this country, that is not just conservatives. Also, this is a Massachusetts jury, so as percentages go a majority of them were likely liberal.

For the record I support the death penalty, especially in a case like this where we are beyond reasonable doubt and well into NO doubt territory.

45 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:44:35pm

I need some relief.

46 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 12:45:58pm

re: #43 Backwoods_Sleuth

first paragraph, too.

twice.

No - the first reference is correct. The trainer is described as a “conductor.”

47 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 12:46:16pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

No - the first reference is correct. The trainer is described as a “conductor.”

ok

48 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 12:46:27pm

re: #28 Dr. Matt

Easy answer: It starts with ‘G’. Ends with a ‘P’. And, there is an ‘O’ in the middle.

I can’t remember where, but I heard it explained as a Red (area) versus a Blue (Area) issue and that allows the GOP to play to its base to keep them happy.

The example was Midwest versus East Coast. No one in the Midwest uses trains and so it is easy to sell them on blocking funding. They don’t care. ON the east coast, trains are very much needed and they care.

With the majority of Congress GOP (Red) they have all the power and position they need to keep screwing the funding.

49 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 12:47:24pm

re: #36 No Country For Old Haters

The insane Conservatives who enjoy executing people. Thirst for blood isn’t something civilized people are into, but most of the regressive Conservatives are.

None. If you support killing people, you’re part of the problem.

The conservatives serving on a jury in Boston?

So…Nazi war criminals shouldn’t have been executed? John Wilkes Booth’s coconspirators shouldn’t have been? James Earl Ray shouldn’t have been executed? Timothy McVeigh shouldn’t have been?

50 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 12:47:35pm

re: #27 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is it that almost every other developed nation can create and maintain a respectable rail system except us?

because - - -if they rank n’ file have freedom of transportation, they can have jobs and a small percentage of them might actually realize the American Dream and become COMPETITION for our current 1%.

Can’t have that.

51 Iwouldprefernotto  May 15, 2015 12:47:42pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

I don’t think “truther” is a fair description of this.

Not yet, but it might become that. My point is that when the truth comes out, there will be a lot of people that will go with a batshit crazy explanation. Think 9/11, Sandy Hook,

52 allegro  May 15, 2015 12:47:52pm

re: #48 ObserverArt

I can’t remember where, but I heard it explained as a Red (area) versus a Blue (Area) issue and that allows the GOP to play to its base to keep them happy.

The example was Midwest versus East Coast. No one in the Midwest uses trains and so it is easy to sell them on blocking funding. They don’t care. ON the east coast, trains are very much needed and they care.

With the majority of Congress GOP (Red) they have all the power and position they need to keep screwing the funding.

While keeping the big ag subsidies flowing.

53 Skip Intro  May 15, 2015 12:48:28pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

No - the first reference is correct. The trainer is described as a “conductor.”

OK, now we need some hard charging journalist to answer the two key questions: is he a homo and is he black?

I think I know just the guy.

54 Drive By Commenter  May 15, 2015 12:49:03pm

I would agree that some crimes certainly deserve the death penalty. Saying that, in my years walking this planet I’ve personally come to the personal conclusion that my need for retribution could be used to kill innocents. I just look at one innocent being put to death to justify 100 others who deserve it a price too high. Besides, life in prison for this guy would be a daily waking hell. Everyone would be waiting to get a shot. Everyone. He would basicly be alone for however long he lived.

55 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 12:50:08pm

re: #37 William Lewis

I still do because any use of it justifies it to those who use it to commit state sanctioned murder wholesale (looking at you, Texas). There is no application of the death penalty that is without serious flaws and can not be accepted as appropriate in any circumstance, not even the “perfect candidate & perfect proof” case such as this.

edit:clarification.

I still there are monsters we do not need among us.

John Wayne Gacy
Brevik
Jeffrey Dahlmer

I am concerned about false convictions and DNA evidence that can later come to light.

I do think we can agree that perhaps after a certain amount of time there are a very few we do not need to pay to keep alive.

56 Iwouldprefernotto  May 15, 2015 12:50:09pm

re: #51 Iwouldprefernotto

Not yet, but it might become that. My point is that when the truth comes out, there will be a lot of people that will go with a batshit crazy explanation. Think 9/11, Sandy Hook, the @$%$#% moon landing.

57 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:50:37pm

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

Does it ultimately cost more to keep a man in prison for life or execute him?

This is an example from WA state. It’s from 2011, but probably still remains true.

nbcrightnow.com

58 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 12:50:55pm

re: #44 danarchy

Sorry but support for the death penalty runs over 60% in this country, that is not just conservatives. Also, this is a Massachusetts jury, so as percentages go a majority of them were likely liberal.

For the record I support the death penalty, especially in a case like this where we are beyond reasonable doubt and well into NO doubt territory.

Then your thirst for blood is part of the problem in this country.

59 William Lewis  May 15, 2015 12:52:14pm

re: #49 Timothy Watson

The only possible one of those is the war criminals, because military justice is separate from civilian justice. As for the rest, no they should not have been. Nothing was made better by their deaths. It costs far less to imprison someone than to have anything even slightly approaching a decent level of appeals needed for capital crimes.

60 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 12:52:37pm

re: #49 Timothy Watson

The conservatives serving on a jury in Boston?

So…Nazi war criminals shouldn’t have been executed? John Wilkes Booth’s coconspirators shouldn’t have been? James Earl Ray shouldn’t have been executed? Timothy McVeigh shouldn’t have been?

They sure weren’t modern people, or they’d be beyond homicide.

None of them should have been, and I’m disgusted by your thirst for blood.

61 William Lewis  May 15, 2015 12:53:30pm

re: #55 FemNaziBitch

I still there are monsters we do not need among us.

John Wayne Gacy
Brevik
Jeffrey Dahlmer

I am concerned about false convictions and DNA evidence that can later come to light.

I do think we can agree that perhaps after a certain amount of time there are a very few we do not need to pay to keep alive.

I disagree. Killing them makes us no better than them. Lock them up and let time take it’s course.

62 Iwouldprefernotto  May 15, 2015 12:54:10pm

Amtrak Engineer’s Trainer Thinks ‘Outside Force’ Is Likely Cause of Derailment

“likely” is the key word here. He doesn’t know either way, why throw it out? I don’t know what happened, so I’m not going to guess and not let others do the same.

63 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 12:54:40pm

re: #54 Drive By Commenter

I would agree that some crimes certainly deserve the death penalty. Saying that, in my years walking this planet I’ve personally come to the personal conclusion that my need for retribution could be used to kill innocents. I just look at one innocent being put to death to justify 100 others who deserve it a price too high. Besides, life in prison for this guy would be a daily waking hell. Everyone would be waiting to get a shot. Everyone. He would basicly be alone for however long he lived.

So, execution by the government is unacceptable but government-sanctioned mob violence and lynching (and possibly prison rape) is okay?

64 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 12:54:41pm

re: #61 William Lewis

I disagree. Killing them makes us no better than them. Lock them up and let time take it’s course.

Yep, that’s the point. Anyone who supports the death penalty is a killer, whether they get their own hands bloody, or have the government do it for them. I don’t care to associate with killers.

65 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 12:55:02pm

re: #48 ObserverArt

But when you tell them that the routes that aren’t making money are the ones going through their districts, they demand Amtrak maintain funding and service, because it would have devastating consequences to Podunk, including the loss of jobs and tourism if the 100 people on a train that goes through once a day, and is often delayed because the freight line that controls the route prioritizes freight over passengers is somehow more important than making sure that the NEC, which generates an operating profit that is spent elsewhere in the system has a proper infrastructure and that can actually be a true HSR if we invested a fraction of what we’re spending on other parts of the budget (like say a couple of F-35s).

The NEC - the Amtrak portion alone - handles 11 million a year. 30,000 a day.

Add to that another couple hundred thousands for NJ Transit that operates on the NEC between Philly and NYC; Metro North between CT and NYC; etc.

There’s a huge passenger rail need that is underserved because infrastructure simply can’t handle it.

The rail service into NYP is limited because there’s only two century old tunnels between NJ and NY and both are damaged from Sandy and need to be completely refurbished. Gateway is the current tunnel plan, and there’s no funding in place (feds have been calling on Christie and Cuomo to get their acts together and make the funding happen). ARC, the Gateway predecessor, was a mess and deserved to die, but instead of allocating the funding to a new tunnel like Gateway, Christie used the money to fix access roads like the Pulaski skyway - that he claimed was a connector to the Lincoln tunnel, even though it is a direct connection to the Holland tunnel (and this is a no-no for bond offerings so the SEC is investigating all that too for illegalities).

Any minor delay, like a disabled train can turn into a huge nightmare for commuters because of the lack of additional capacity. That’s only the most high profile need. There are dozens of others, all because Congress refuses to spend the necessary funds to maintain and upgrade Amtrak NEC to HSR as it claims to be.

66 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 12:55:08pm

re: #63 Timothy Watson

So, execution by the government is unacceptable but government-sanctioned mob violence and lynching (and possibly prison rape) is okay?

Neither is OK.

67 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 12:55:19pm

re: #37 William Lewis

I still do because any use of it justifies it to those who use it murder wholesale (looking at you, Texas). There is no application of the death penalty that is without serious flaws and can not be accepted as appropriate in any circumstance, not even the “perfect candidate & perfect proof” case such as this.

Yes. One mistake, and you know we’ve made them, and it blows the whole thinking and practice. Myself, I can’t live with the idea that as a society we have killed an innocent. And I just feel like we have.

Plus, where do conservative who are 90% religious get off. They want those Ten Commandments placed all over in public buildings and they are so fast to skip one of them…thou shalt not kill. Also that thing about thou shall not judge. The death penalty is the ultimate judgement and I hate the it is done in my name (all of our names).

68 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 12:56:10pm

I much prefer Amnesty Intl’s statement on the death penalty than Loretta Lynch’s.

amnestyusa.org

US Attorney General Lynch, on the sentencing of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev: ‘the ultimate penalty is a fitting punishment for this horrific crime’ - @Reuters
end of alert

69 EPR-radar  May 15, 2015 12:56:57pm

re: #30 Timothy Watson

Which conservatives?

Are you saying that there are no crimes for which the death penalty is appropriate?

This tripped me up for a long time. IMO, of course there are crimes that deserve the death penalty.

The problem is that the US is demonstrably incapable of implementing the death penalty in any reasonably just manner, and there is no apparent solution for the total failures observed in practice.

That is why I’m against the death penalty in all cases.

70 Drive By Commenter  May 15, 2015 12:57:25pm

re: #63 Timothy Watson

How the fuck did you read that into it? If the guards do their jobs he gets no contact from anyone. Not even them. He would be alone. Sanctioned? The threat remains. That is the thirst that would kill him to begin with.

71 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 12:59:39pm

What is the purpose of the death penalty? It doesn’t bring victims back to life, and life in Supermax prison takes the criminal out of society forever, making it impossible for him or her to hurt anyone else.

So we’re down to this: the purpose of the death penalty is purely and simply vengeance. And I don’t believe the government should be in the vengeance business.

72 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 1:01:04pm

People on facebook going the route of “LETS STONE HIM TO DEATH”. Yeah. We live in Saudi Arabia. Geez.

73 Iwouldprefernotto  May 15, 2015 1:01:12pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

What is the purpose of the death penalty? It doesn’t bring victims back to life, and life in Supermax prison takes the criminal out of society forever, making it impossible for him or her to hurt anyone else.

So we’re down to this: the purpose of the death penalty is purely and simply vengeance. And I don’t believe the government should be in the vengeance business.

I agree, but they are.

74 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 1:01:25pm

re: #64 No Country For Old Haters

Yep, that’s the point. Anyone who supports the death penalty is a killer, whether they get their own hands bloody, or have the government do it for them. I don’t care to associate with killers.

I don’t support the death penalty, but it’s hyperbolic to claim a death penalty supporter is a “killer”.

75 Stephen T.  May 15, 2015 1:02:52pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

What is the purpose of the death penalty? It doesn’t bring victims back to life, and life in Supermax prison takes the criminal out of society forever, making it impossible for him or her to hurt anyone else.

So we’re down to this: the purpose of the death penalty is purely and simply vengeance. And I don’t believe the government should be in the vengeance business.

While I agree with you that the death penalty is all about vengeance, I have heard the argument that it is also about determent. Obviously, the death penalty isn’t a deterrent to crime as a whole. But the argument is “if you execute someone, they’ll never commit another crime ever again.” The flaw in this idea is that the same could be true if you incarcerate them for life without parole.

76 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 1:02:54pm
77 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 1:04:28pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

What is the purpose of the death penalty? It doesn’t bring victims back to life, and life in Supermax prison takes the criminal out of society forever, making it impossible for him or her to hurt anyone else.

So we’re down to this: the purpose of the death penalty is purely and simply vengeance. And I don’t believe the government should be in the vengeance business.

Yeah, you’d think a “christian” nation would remember “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.”’

78 danarchy  May 15, 2015 1:04:34pm

Talking about life in supermax like it is somehow morally superior to the death penalty baffles me. To me that sounds like 70 years of sanctioned torture, maybe not physical but certainly mental and emotional.

79 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 1:04:51pm

Has a certain award-winning journalist confused Bostian with Bosnia yet? /////

80 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 1:04:54pm

re: #70 Drive By Commenter

How the fuck did you read that into it? If the guards do their jobs he gets no contact from anyone. Not even them. He would be alone. Sanctioned? The threat remains. That is the thirst that would kill him to begin with.

What the hell does this mean?

Everyone would be waiting to get a shot. Everyone.

81 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 1:05:38pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

What is the purpose of the death penalty? It doesn’t bring victims back to life, and life in Supermax prison takes the criminal out of society forever, making it impossible for him or her to hurt anyone else.

So we’re down to this: the purpose of the death penalty is purely and simply vengeance. And I don’t believe the government should be in the vengeance business.

Prison guards and staff?

82 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 1:06:38pm

Most socialist president ever:

83 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 1:06:59pm

do it, do it now …

Also, if you are a Mrs., you might want to consider using that title when completing the form. I usually put Ms because I didn’t want to influence anyone either way, but for these topics I’ve changed. I WANT the GOP Whackos to know that a married woman (in their mind not a single slut) wants full repro rights.

84 blueraven  May 15, 2015 1:07:18pm

re: #64 No Country For Old Haters

Yep, that’s the point. Anyone who supports the death penalty is a killer, whether they get their own hands bloody, or have the government do it for them. I don’t care to associate with killers.

Really, you should calm down. Associating people who believe in the death penalty as a killer is way over the top.

85 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 1:08:28pm

re: #75 Stephen T.

While I agree with you that the death penalty is all about vengeance, I have heard the argument that it is also about determent. Obviously, the death penalty isn’t a deterrent to crime as a whole. But the argument is “if you execute someone, they’ll never commit another crime ever again.” The flaw in this idea is that the same could be true if you incarcerate them for life without parole.

Almost nobody believes the death penalty is a deterrent any more: Facts About Deterrence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center.

A recent survey of the most leading criminologists in the country from found that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.

Similarly, 87% of the expert criminologists believe that abolition of the death penalty would not have any significant effect on murder rates. In addition, 75% of the respondents agree that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.”

86 Drive By Commenter  May 15, 2015 1:10:10pm

re: #80 Timothy Watson

What the hell does this mean?

That they would get a shot at him would be a topic. To get a shot at him would be impossible. People can call out. Yell. Threaten. I frankly really don’t give a rats ass about him. He would be in isolation. Period. He would rot. It’s other folks who are fried for crimes they did not commit that bother me. Thus, my statement.

87 CuriousLurker  May 15, 2015 1:10:14pm

I used to support the death penalty, but since coming to LGF that support has seriously wavered so I’m not going to argue with anyone over it. In the case of Tsarnaev I can’t help but wonder how long it will be be before groups like Daesh & Boko Haram label him a martyr and, once he’s killed, how many new jihadis his death will inspire.

88 William Lewis  May 15, 2015 1:10:46pm

re: #83 FemNaziBitch

do it, do it now …

[Embedded content]

Also, if you are a Mrs., you might want to consider using that title when completing the form. I usually put Ms because I didn’t want to influence anyone either way, but for these topics I’ve changed. I WANT the GOP Whackos to know that a married woman (in their mind not a single slut) wants full repro rights.

But contact your senator directly - call their office instead of wasting time on these kinds of online petitions that are veiwed as essentially meaningless by them. A Call = thousands of online signatures.

Call them. US Senators Contact Information

89 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:11:00pm

re: #84 blueraven

Really, you should calm down. Associating people who believe in the death penalty as a killer is way over the top.

How is it over the top? They support people being killed. it doesn’t matter if they do it themselves or not.

90 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 1:11:04pm

re: #78 danarchy

Talking about life in supermax like it is somehow morally superior to the death penalty baffles me. To me that sounds like 70 years of sanctioned torture, maybe not physical but certainly mental and emotional.

Whichever he might have been sentenced to, it’s pretty obvious that he didn’t think about any consequences before he committed his heinous acts.

And these were cold-blood crimes, not crimes of passion. Planned and executed with no concern for the victims.

I don’t feel sorry for him whatsoever, but I’m still against the death penalty as a form of punishment. Or vengeance, as it were.

91 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 1:12:05pm

I’m not sure about bloodlust.

I do know that the victims can no longer fear the monster will find them. Which is something that isn’t always alleviated by prison.

I just don’t see a reason for them to be among us. Feeding them and housing them when they can’t be trusted to be out of solitary confinement and they can’t be rehabilitated seems stupid to me.

Permanent solitary seems like torture. I can’t advocate that.

If I were in their position, I’d rather be put to death.

92 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 1:13:38pm

re: #87 CuriousLurker

I used to support the death penalty, but since coming to LGF that support has seriously wavered so I’m not going to argue with anyone over it. In the case of Tsarnaev I can’t help but wonder how long it will be be before groups like Daesh & Boko Haram label him a martyr and, once he’s killed, how many new jihadis his death will inspire.

It won’t be soon. There will be years of appeals.

93 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:13:46pm

re: #91 FemNaziBitch

If I were in their position, I’d rather be put to death.

And as an individual choice that’s OK. Deciding to kill people other than ourselves is not.

94 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 1:13:56pm

re: #89 No Country For Old Haters

How is it over the top? They support people being killed. it doesn’t matter if they do it themselves or not.

Is Barack Obama also a killer? You’re starting to sound like Greenwald et al.

95 allegro  May 15, 2015 1:14:20pm

re: #78 danarchy

Talking about life in supermax like it is somehow morally superior to the death penalty baffles me. To me that sounds like 70 years of sanctioned torture, maybe not physical but certainly mental and emotional.

I think that’s wrong as well. Prisoners should be treated humanely and provided for appropriately. I believe the purpose of prisons should be to remove those who are dangers to society from society and where possible, provide actual rehabilitation and education to successfully return those who are no longer a danger back into society.

96 CuriousLurker  May 15, 2015 1:14:29pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Almost nobody believes the death penalty is a deterrent any more: Facts About Deterrence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center.

The death penalty certainly isn’t a deterrent for someone with a jihadi mindset. They clearly believe what they’re doing is righteous and that they’ll be going straight to heaven for their efforts.

97 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 1:14:59pm

re: #86 Drive By Commenter

That they would get a shot at him would be a topic. To get a shot at him would be impossible. People can call out. Yell. Threaten. I frankly really don’t give a rats ass about him. He would be in isolation. Period. He would rot. It’s other folks who are fried for crimes they did not commit that bother me. Thus, my statement.

So, you have no problem with throwing someone in a dark hole for 70 years with no contact with anyone? You’re a real humanitarian.

98 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:15:26pm

re: #92 Justanotherhuman

It won’t be soon. There will be years of appeals.

They’ll probably already consider him a bit of a martyr just for going to prison for his terrible crime. Some people are just sick. Of course we shouldn’t care what they think except from a strategic point of view to help us defeat them.

99 Dr Lizardo  May 15, 2015 1:15:26pm

re: #87 CuriousLurker

I used to support the death penalty, but since coming to LGF that support has seriously wavered so I’m not going to argue with anyone over it. In the case of Tsarnaev I can’t help but wonder how long it will be be before groups like Daesh & Boko Haram label him a martyr and, once he’s killed, how many new jihadis his death will inspire.

Just like the Rote Armee Fraktion back in the ’70s - every time one of their members was killed in a run-in with the Polizei, some new ‘commando’ was formed in their name.

100 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 1:15:32pm

re: #78 danarchy

Talking about life in supermax like it is somehow morally superior to the death penalty baffles me. To me that sounds like 70 years of sanctioned torture, maybe not physical but certainly mental and emotional.

Yeah, that may be. But they did kill someone, so they tortured the victim, their family, friends and associates. In a way, they have tortured themselves, They certainly had the choice not to kill someone.

And I know it is a tough thing to debate, and I understand Old Country is very passionate and maybe a bit over the top calling us all killers. But, if it is state sanctioned, we are in fact “killers” and I just don’t want to be a part of that ultimate judgement. I guess I just see it as a big part of civility. To me a civil society doesn’t kill.

I think everyone needs to ask themselves, if one innocent is sentenced to death wrongly, whose fault is it? Well, the answer is everyone in the society that allows it.

No thanks.

And please, I don’t want that to ever be misconstrued as being soft on crime which is how many try to flip it.

101 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 1:15:37pm

re: #87 CuriousLurker

I used to support the death penalty, but since coming to LGF that support has seriously wavered so I’m not going to argue with anyone over it. In the case of Tsarnaev I can’t help but wonder how long it will be be before groups like Daesh & Boko Haram label him a martyr and, once he’s killed, how many new jihadis his death will inspire.

I used to support the death penalty too, but over the years I realized that my support wasn’t really based on a rational justification, but just a primal desire for revenge against people who hurt other people. And I realized that’s just wrong, from a moral standpoint.

I understand that a lot of people do support the death penalty, but I urge them to examine their reasons for that support - I think they’ll come to the same realization I did. It’s not based on rationality or reason.

Ironically, the first topic of debate I had in my high school debating team was the death penalty, and my team argued against it - even though I personally thought it was appropriate in some cases.

102 blueraven  May 15, 2015 1:17:08pm

re: #89 No Country For Old Haters

How is it over the top? They support people being killed. it doesn’t matter if they do it themselves or not.

They support a form of ultimate punishment, under our laws.
To equate those supporters with this slime ball who placed a bomb directly behind an 8 year old boy is…well, I wont say.

Just to be clear I am fairly ambivalent about the death penalty. In most all cases I am against it. In this case, because the parents of the young victim pleaded for life without parole, I wish they would have honored that.

103 Great White Snark  May 15, 2015 1:17:58pm

Not surprising at all.

Boston bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev sentenced to die
Tsarnaev showed no reaction as his sentence was announced.

cnn.com

I wish we would end it. But I can’t help but observe this case shows few if any of the best arguments against it. I don’t see any doubt about his guilt. Mass murder is hardly too minor a crime. We have no evidence of prejudice. This is far from the best case to argue for ending the death penalty.

104 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:18:05pm

re: #102 blueraven

re: #102 blueraven

They support a form of ultimate punishment, under our laws.
To equate those supporters with this slime ball who placed a bomb directly behind an 8 year old boy is…well, I wont say.

Just to be clear I am fairly ambivalent about the death penalty. In most all cases I am against it. In this case, because the parents of the young victim pleaded for life without parole, I wish they would have honored that.

They’re obviously not equal, but killing is wrong, full stop.

105 Kragar  May 15, 2015 1:18:59pm
106 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 1:19:49pm

Those on the bubble get Thunderdome.

Those inside get Celebrity Deathmatch.

Or is it backwards. Either way, with the pool of GOPers running getting shallower by the moment, they’ve got far more than 12 running or are expected to run.

107 CuriousLurker  May 15, 2015 1:20:41pm

re: #92 Justanotherhuman

It won’t be soon. There will be years of appeals.

It won’t stop them from using him as a recruitment tool. Visions of paradise & whatnot. I’d be very surprised if I was to find out Tsarnaev & his brother weren’t themselves inspired by stories of other jihadis.

108 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:21:04pm

re: #100 ObserverArt

And I know it is a tough thing to debate, and I understand Old Country is very passionate and maybe a bit over the top calling us all killers. But, if it is state sanctioned, we are in fact “killers” and I just don’t want to be a part of that ultimate judgement. I guess I just see it as a big part of civility. To me a civil society doesn’t kill.

Thanks for your support. I don’t think it’s over the top, just impolite, which is why I picked this username to remind me to be less harsh, but killing people is where I draw a line. Once you figure out that there’s no afterlife, and free will is probably an illusion, execution gets really, really wrong.

109 Drive By Commenter  May 15, 2015 1:21:17pm

re: #97 Timothy Watson

So, you have no problem with throwing someone in a dark hole for 70 years with no contact with anyone? You’re a real humanitarian.

Yeah. That’s me. I could pump slow poison into him I guess and be done with it. More humane. And maybe in my thirst for retribution and vengeance a few innocents would be smoked, but what the hell.

110 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:21:21pm

You know what the biggest problem with the death penalty is?
Far too many innocent people have been executed and many more were exonerated.

111 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 1:21:33pm

re: #107 CuriousLurker

It won’t stop them from using him as a recruitment tool. Visions of paradise & whatnot. I’d be very surprised if I was to find out Tsarnaev & his brother weren’t themselves inspired by stories of other jihadis.

Of course they were. And thought they would be better at it.

112 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 1:22:00pm

re: #91 FemNaziBitch

I’m not sure about bloodlust.

I do know that the victims can no longer fear the monster will find them. Which is something that isn’t always alleviated by prison.

I just don’t see a reason for them to be among us. Feeding them and housing them when they can’t be trusted to be out of solitary confinement and they can’t be rehabilitated seems stupid to me.

Permanent solitary seems like torture. I can’t advocate that.

If I were in their position, I’d rather be put to death.

And, with your last sentence in mind, do you ever ask yourself if the death penalty is an easy way out?

I think one must always keep in mind the victim and all that knew them.

113 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:22:00pm

re: #97 Timothy Watson

So, you have no problem with throwing someone in a dark hole for 70 years with no contact with anyone? You’re a real humanitarian.

So you’d convert life sentences to death?

114 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:22:30pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

You know what the biggest problem with the death penalty is?
Far too many innocent people have been executed and many more were exonerated.

That’s what initially made me oppose it, but eventually I concluded that it’s evil even if you know for sure you’re killing someone who’s really bad.

115 wrenchwench  May 15, 2015 1:22:44pm

Yesterday when I was walking home, I found myself wanting to whack people’s cars with my walking stick. One was being driven by a young woman on her phone. One was parked on the sidewalk.

Today I called the city and the school district about poorly maintained sidewalks. No car-whacking. No people-whacking.

116 Great White Snark  May 15, 2015 1:22:47pm

re: #87 CuriousLurker

… In the case of Tsarnaev I can’t help but wonder how long it will be be before groups like Daesh & Boko Haram label him a martyr and, once he’s killed, how many new jihadis his death will inspire.

If he were in jail he would then be exploited by other means. He’s a propaganda symbol dead or alive. Some hostages get held in Syria and they demand his release in a “prisoner exchange”. Or something.

117 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 1:22:48pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

You know what the biggest problem with the death penalty is?
Far too many innocent people have been executed and many more were exonerated.

innocenceproject.org

118 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 1:22:56pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

You know what the biggest problem with the death penalty is?
Far too many innocent people have been executed and many more were exonerated.

Yes, but even if we could infallibly prevent innocent people from being executed, it would still be wrong.

119 CuriousLurker  May 15, 2015 1:23:06pm

Okay, I’ve said my piece and I can see this is gonna be one of those subjects where emotions run high and scales start flying, so I’m out for now.

Later, lizards.

120 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:23:18pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Yes, but even if we could infallibly prevent innocent people from being executed, it would still be wrong.

Indeed.

121 danarchy  May 15, 2015 1:24:30pm

The way I see it, the worst of the worst criminals, the ones who can’t be trusted in any society, the ones who can’t be trusted even around other prisoners or guards, need to be removed from society. There are two options for that, death, or lock them in a box for the rest of their lives with little to no human contact.

Neither is a good choice, to me it is torture or death.

122 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:25:05pm

re: #121 danarchy

The way I see it, the worst of the worst criminals, the ones who can’t be trusted in any society, the ones who can’t be trusted even around other prisoners or guards, need to be removed from society. There are two options for that, death, or lock them in a box for the rest of their lives with little to no human contact.

Neither is a good choice, to me it is torture or death.

You make a good point.

123 blueraven  May 15, 2015 1:25:07pm

re: #104 No Country For Old Haters

They’re obviously not equal, but killing is wrong, full stop.

Blood on the hands killers, you said.
Tsarnaev is the only one with blood on his hands. Full stop.

124 Kragar  May 15, 2015 1:25:11pm
125 Kragar  May 15, 2015 1:25:49pm
126 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:27:35pm

re: #123 blueraven

Blood on the hands killers, you said.
Tsarnaev is the only one with blood on his hands. Full stop.

No, anyone who supports homicide in their name absolutely has blood on their hands.

127 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 1:28:36pm

re: #97 Timothy Watson

So, you have no problem with throwing someone in a dark hole for 70 years with no contact with anyone? You’re a real humanitarian.

Timothy, you didn’t like being called a killer, correct? A good debater should be able to keep from calling others out much the same way.

That goes to Old Country to.

I certainly understand passion, but please all, keep it in check as far as trying to draw blood from each other.

Unfortunately this has always been a knock-down drag-out kind of topic. Let’s all keep it to the points you are making and not personal. Lizard folk are way better than that. Or, so I’ve always thought.

And with that, I’m going to bow out. I wish we could fix all the world’s problems. But we are human.

And this human is going to grab something to eat and get ready for the Friday night jam session. Be good to each other.

128 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 1:29:03pm
129 Drive By Commenter  May 15, 2015 1:29:44pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

You could smell that coming.

130 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:29:54pm

re: #124 Kragar

Sounds like my HIPAA training. It’s extremely important, but I got that the first time I went through this annual training.

131 wrenchwench  May 15, 2015 1:29:58pm

re: #121 danarchy

The way I see it, the worst of the worst criminals, the ones who can’t be trusted in any society, the ones who can’t be trusted even around other prisoners or guards, need to be removed from society. There are two options for that, death, or lock them in a box for the rest of their lives with little to no human contact.

Neither is a good choice, to me it is torture or death.

Do any people fit that description?

132 EPR-radar  May 15, 2015 1:30:05pm

re: #74 Dr. Matt

I don’t support the death penalty, but it’s hyperbolic to claim a death penalty supporter is a “killer”.

I agree that it is unreasonable to regard someone as bloodthirsty or as a killer merely for support of capital punishment.

However, this has degrees. Someone who supports capital punishment as applied in Texas can rightly be regarded as a bloodthirsty proponent of judicial murder. Even here, ‘killer’ might still be a bit of an overstatement.

133 blueraven  May 15, 2015 1:30:32pm

re: #126 No Country For Old Haters

No, anyone who supports homicide in their name absolutely has blood on their hands.

OK, there you go equating again, but have at it.

134 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:30:40pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Chucky’s hate will be the end of him.

135 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:31:15pm

re: #133 blueraven

OK, there you go equating again, but have at it.

That’s not equating.

136 Timothy Watson  May 15, 2015 1:31:40pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

So you’d convert life sentences to death?

And I’m a bad guy for dispassionating supporting the death penalty but he’s enjoying the possibility of the guy sitting 23.5 hours a day in a cell for the next 70 years?

And most people who are in prison for life aren’t subject to solitary confinement or supermax treatment.

137 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:32:32pm

re: #136 Timothy Watson

And I’m a bad guy for dispassionating supporting the death penalty but he’s enjoying the possibility of the guy sitting 23.5 hours a day in a cell for the next 70 years?

And most people who are in prison for life aren’t subject to solitary confinement or supermax treatment.

Pointing to other bad things does not make supporting bad things acceptable.

138 No Country For Old Haters  May 15, 2015 1:33:16pm

re: #127 ObserverArt

Try the cats thread, it’s much more pleasant
littlegreenfootballs.com

139 b.d.  May 15, 2015 1:36:00pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Our enemies are brutal, immoral, backwards, inhuman thugs, we need to use the same punishments they do.

140 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:36:31pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And there he is being a dick as usual.

141 Frenchy  May 15, 2015 1:38:25pm

re: #74 Dr. Matt

It’s a bit wishy-washy to say you don’t support the death penalty but that you’d have no problem with Tsarnaev being put to death.

If you’re against the death penalty you are against it in all cases. Otherwise you’re not really against it.

The sense that people like Timothy McVeigh and Jeffrey Dahmer should be put to death strikes a chord with me as well, but it’s just not worth it to me, even in such extreme cases, if it comes with the possibility of also executing innocent people. And no doubt we have done so.

142 blueraven  May 15, 2015 1:38:57pm

re: #135 No Country For Old Haters

No, anyone who supports homicide in their name absolutely has blood on their hands.

That’s not equating.

What should happen to all these “blood-on-their-hands-killers” death penalty supporters? Prison? Anything? I mean they have BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS.

143 danarchy  May 15, 2015 1:40:19pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

Do any people fit that description?

Of course there are. Especially people who once they have already received a life sentence figure “what are they gonna do give me another life sentence?”

There are two reasons prisoners end up in supermax, one is that they are proven risks in a regular prison setting an the second type are people whose lives would be in danger in a regular prison(high profile prisoners etc.)

144 A Cranky One  May 15, 2015 1:40:39pm

I think a good case could be made that the death penalty is appropriate in some instances. However, when we move from the hypothetical question to the practical realities, the issue becomes very muddy.

First, the guilt of the person being sentenced would have to be proved conclusively. This is one area where we have failed; there have been many cases of late where new DNA tests have demonstrated the innocence of folks sentenced to death. How many people were killed by the state and yet were innocent of the crimes? As members of society, we are all complicit in the killing of any innocents by the justice system.

Second, the application of the death penalty would need to be consistent. This is another area where we have failed; there is a clear bias toward giving the death penalty to certain groups as opposed to others. Unless we can create clear, unambiguous and fair guidelines that are enforced, we will continue to kill people simply because of bigotry and not because of justice.

From my perspective, killing is wrong whether done by an individual or by the agents of society. Adding in that the death penalty isn’t implemented fairly and that our justice system makes mistakes, I just can’t support the death penalty.

145 ObserverArt  May 15, 2015 1:45:17pm

re: #138 No Country For Old Haters

Try the cats thread, it’s much more pleasant
littlegreenfootballs.com

I have no problem with a good debate. I always log off about this time on Friday’s, unless there is no jam scheduled.

I saw the word “equate” used as I was scrolling through the comments I had not read. Let’s use that word for a moment. Isn’t the word “killer” equated with allowing state sanctioned killings? Doesn’t that make us as a society “killers” as a member of that society? It may not be the wrong word even if someone thinks they can distance themselves from the word. No one wants to be called a killer, I understand that. But in a way we all are. Even if I have never been for the death penalty ever, in a way I still live in a society that allows death as a punishment. Same as the criminal killer punished someone to death.

There is that “two wrongs don’t make a right” thing.

Now I am out…later!

146 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 1:48:01pm
147 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 1:48:19pm
148 blueraven  May 15, 2015 1:49:56pm

BTW, IngisKahn, you are a coward. Downding me again. I don’t give a flying fuck, but stop hiding. Come out and state your case.

149 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 1:50:00pm

Eighty-seven years ago today, Mickey Mouse appeared in his first cartoon, Plane Crazy, directed by the brilliant Ub Iwerks (1901-1971)

150 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 1:50:48pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

What an incredibly bigoted ghoul.

151 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:52:19pm

re: #136 Timothy Watson

And I’m a bad guy for dispassionating supporting the death penalty but he’s enjoying the possibility of the guy sitting 23.5 hours a day in a cell for the next 70 years?

And most people who are in prison for life aren’t subject to solitary confinement or supermax treatment.

Ok, so life in prison is fine as long as it’s not supermax or solitary?

152 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:52:51pm

WTF does CCJ have to do to get permabanned from twitter!?

153 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 1:53:16pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

I actually got an official invitation from the State of Illinois to take part in the lottery for one of the media witness spots for John Wayne Gacy’s execution.

I declined.

154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 15, 2015 1:54:10pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Ok, so life in prison is fine as long as it’s not supermax or solitary?

THe point is that these people cannot be allowed back in society. We can make it as humane as possible but must be consistent.

155 jaunte  May 15, 2015 1:54:39pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

A novelist would be criticized by their editor if they wrote a character as nasty as Chuck C.
“You’ve made him so one-dimensional; no real person could be that boring.”

156 Frenchy  May 15, 2015 1:55:38pm

re: #155 jaunte

It’s true, CCJ has literally zero redeeming qualities.

157 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:55:50pm

re: #154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

THe point is that these people cannot be allowed back in society. We can make it as humane as possible but must be consistent.

Obviously.

158 jaunte  May 15, 2015 1:56:15pm

re: #156 Frenchy

I hear he has hot Asian in-laws.

159 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 15, 2015 1:56:25pm

re: #156 Frenchy

It’s true, CCJ has literally zero redeeming qualities.

But the author has given him a Hot Asian WIfe (TM)!

160 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 1:57:13pm

re: #159 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

But the author has given him a Hot Asian WIfe (TM)!

Where’s mine???
*Ducks*

161 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 1:57:58pm

I’m glad she survived, but {sigh}

162 Lord Of The Pies  May 15, 2015 1:58:15pm

TCOT is a frenzy now suggesting methods of execution.

What a grisly mob.

163 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 1:59:32pm

cuteness break:

164 A Cranky One  May 15, 2015 2:00:03pm

re: #158 jaunte

I hear he has hot Asian in-laws.

Did you see this donation to Charles’ Gofundme?

$15
CCJs Hot Asian Wife
6 days ago
Also from hot Asian in-laws

165 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 2:01:12pm
166 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 2:01:32pm

In happier news:

Luxembourg premier weds same-sex partner - @nytimesworld

nytimes.com

The world is changing. Some people just need to get used to it.

167 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 2:03:16pm

She seems nice.

168 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 2:04:27pm

This thread is in need of some comedy.

169 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 2:04:27pm

18-Year-Old-Girl Dies In Jail After Police Accused Her Of Faking Medical Emergency

Do we have to have an EMT on staff at every police station?

170 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 2:04:28pm

Tsarnev, to whatever degree he’d be considered a jihadist, probably wants the death penalty and his virgins. It’s a shame he’s going to get his wish.

171 blueraven  May 15, 2015 2:05:19pm

re: #161 Justanotherhuman

I’m glad she survived, but {sigh}

[Embedded content]

And she is getting excoriated on that twitter thread.

Nice people. It is her legs missing, not theirs.

172 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:05:53pm

re: #168 Justanotherhuman

This thread is in need of some comedy.

[Embedded content]

This seems fair.
/

173 Bear  May 15, 2015 2:06:03pm

re: #149 De Kolta Chair

Ah yes Mickey Mouse. Always hoped there would be one when I was going to the movies way back then.

174 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 2:06:22pm

re: #167 De Kolta Chair

She seems nice.

[Embedded content]

Ha, 60 yrs ago.

Now high rises just use colors. Much more pleasant. : )

175 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:07:12pm

I’d also like to mention my twitter status.
I’m not really a social media type, so if I don’t respond to something, it’s not you, it’s my laziness.
;)

176 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 2:07:23pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

I used to support the death penalty too, but over the years I realized that my support wasn’t really based on a rational justification, but just a primal desire for revenge against people who hurt other people. And I realized that’s just wrong, from a moral standpoint.

I understand that a lot of people do support the death penalty, but I urge them to examine their reasons for that support - I think they’ll come to the same realization I did. It’s not based on rationality or reason.

Ironically, the first topic of debate I had in my high school debating team was the death penalty, and my team argued against it - even though I personally thought it was appropriate in some cases.

I’ve heard that same argument from the anti-choice side.

We seem to have a real disconnect in this country about death.

I think there are circumstances in which both abortion and capitol punishment are appropriate.

177 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 2:08:25pm

re: #171 blueraven

And she is getting excoriated on that twitter thread.

Nice people. It is her legs missing, not theirs.

No, it’s her mother who lost her legs. She had shrapnel wounds, no permanency.

But it’s sad that people pile on like that. I have empathy for anyone who had to suffer the crimes of the Tsarnaevs.

But I’m still against the death penalty.

178 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:09:06pm

re: #169 FemNaziBitch

18-Year-Old-Girl Dies In Jail After Police Accused Her Of Faking Medical Emergency

Do we have to have an EMT on staff at every police station?

I read about that this morning.
If they had believed her instead of saying she was faking, they would have called for an ambulance. Heroin withdrawal (much like extreme cases of alcohol withdrawal) is not something to ignore.
And to lie to her parents for days is inexcusable.

179 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:09:47pm

re: #170 GlutenFreeJesus

Tsarnev, to whatever degree he’d be considered a jihadist, probably wants the death penalty and his virgins. It’s a shame he’s going to get his wish.

Too bad he doesn’t know that he’ll be disappointed.

180 blueraven  May 15, 2015 2:10:16pm

re: #177 Justanotherhuman

No, it’s her mother who lost her legs. She had shrapnel wounds, no permanency.

But it’s sad that people pile on like that. I empathy for anyone who had to suffer the crimes of the Tsarnaevs.

But I’m still against the death penalty.

Thanks for the correction. Still, those people piling on are creeps.

181 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 2:11:46pm

re: #112 ObserverArt

And, with your last sentence in mind, do you ever ask yourself if the death penalty is an easy way out?

I think one must always keep in mind the victim and all that knew them.

Is our place to punish or keep society safe?

We need to understand what the purpose of our Justice System is.

Are we truly in a position to punish. What is the point if the person cannot be changed or rehabilitated. The purpose then is vengeance —which I think some see as the purpose of the death penalty.

As it stands for heinous crimes, I think the purpose is to remove the person from society as they cannot be trusted among us.

for lesser crimes, there has to be a reckoning. A fine or jail time. “paying one’s debt to society”

I’m not in a mood to day to debate this further —so I’ll bow out of this thread.

182 blueraven  May 15, 2015 2:11:52pm

re: #170 GlutenFreeJesus

Tsarnev, to whatever degree he’d be considered a jihadist, probably wants the death penalty and his virgins. It’s a shame he’s going to get his wish.

No, he isn’t. He gets half of his wish…the bad half.

183 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:12:53pm

Aunty Entity would like a word…

184 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:13:25pm

re: #183 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Aunty Entity would like a word…

Who run Bartertown?

185 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:14:53pm

heh…the “awesome” haz been ruined.

RUINED!!!11!!!

186 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 2:15:13pm
I’m against the death penalty because what if they kill the wrong person? And what if that person happens to be me?

-Jello Biafra

187 EPR-radar  May 15, 2015 2:15:21pm

re: #183 Backwoods_Sleuth

IIRC, returnofkings is an MRA site. If so, CCJ is certainly seeking out his own kind on the internet.

188 jaunte  May 15, 2015 2:15:47pm

re: #183 Backwoods_Sleuth

He’s a reliable source of cliché.

189 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:15:51pm

re: #187 EPR-radar

yep.
He’s still looking for friends…

190 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:16:29pm

MRAs have to be the whiniest group of people ever.
Good grief!

191 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:17:32pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Point made.

192 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:18:10pm

re: #134 No Country For Old Haters

Chucky’s hate will be the end of him.

Just like his idol, Senor Breitbart.

193 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:19:02pm

lolololol!

194 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:19:31pm

re: #153 Backwoods_Sleuth

I actually got an official invitation from the State of Illinois to take part in the lottery for one of the media witness spots for John Wayne Gacy’s execution.

I declined.

Imagine the takers.

Gross.

195 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:20:05pm

re: #193 Backwoods_Sleuth

lolololol!

[Embedded content]

I…uh…
Yeah.

196 blueraven  May 15, 2015 2:20:19pm

re: #185 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

heh…the “awesome” haz been ruined.

RUINED!!!11!!!

That is why all the critics and audience alike love it! But we should take serious movie critique from some second-rate, pretend Ginger Avenger.

Yawn.

197 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:20:21pm
198 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:20:28pm

CCJ;

199 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 2:20:45pm

If we’re going to have a death penalty, LET’S GET SERIOUS. I’m against the death penalty but if we’re going to have it, bring back guillotines or firing squads, and carry out the sentences in public, with mandatory viewings by citizens.

200 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:20:54pm

re: #196 blueraven

That is why all the critics and audience alike love it! But we should take serious movie critique from some second-rate, pretend Ginger Avenger.

Yawn.

201 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:21:24pm

re: #169 FemNaziBitch

18-Year-Old-Girl Dies In Jail After Police Accused Her Of Faking Medical Emergency

Do we have to have an EMT on staff at every police station?

Yes. One with a semblance of empathy would help.

202 Varek Raith  May 15, 2015 2:21:38pm

Good night.

203 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  May 15, 2015 2:22:09pm

re: #193 Backwoods_Sleuth

lolololol!

Most people wait until after the workday on Friday to start hitting the juice.

204 Kragar  May 15, 2015 2:22:23pm
205 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:23:04pm

re: #183 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Aunty Entity would like a word…

Of course that dude comes out against a supposedly great movie.

He’s beyond weird on top of all the hate.

206 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:23:21pm

re: #203 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Most people wait until after the workday on Friday to start hitting the juice.

UpChuck never stops hitting the juice.

207 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 2:23:29pm

re: #176 FemNaziBitch

I’ve heard that same argument from the anti-choice side.

We seem to have a real disconnect in this country about death.

I think there are circumstances in which both abortion and capitol punishment are appropriate.

Huh?

208 Dr Lizardo  May 15, 2015 2:24:50pm

re: #183 Backwoods_Sleuth

Ah, yes. I see Chuckles is the new honorary president of the He-Man Woman Haters Club.

Or was it Get Rid of Slimy Girls?

What a headcase.

209 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:25:44pm

Last day at job complete. So happy.

Come home to the Mad Men marathon. Even better.

(Christmas party scene, pretty great)

210 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 2:26:10pm

There’s always hand-wringing and down-dings at LGF when it comes to the death penalty. It brings out the inner asshole in some of us. It’s stupid.

211 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:26:58pm

Plus, they paid me my final 2 weeks, plus full 2 weeks vacay.

Then took me to lunch.

All’s good in Stanley land.

212 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 2:27:22pm

re: #191 #FergusonFireside

Point made.

Chuck is the perfect illustration of my point.

213 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 2:28:51pm

Have you noticed that people who are really for the death penalty are generally loathsome human beings?

214 allegro  May 15, 2015 2:29:21pm

re: #209 #FergusonFireside

Last day at job complete. So happy.

Come home to the Mad Men marathon. Even better.

(Christmas party scene, pretty great)

Is that the lawnmower party?

215 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:31:22pm

re: #214 allegro

Is that the lawnmower party?

IDK!!!!! I’ll definitely find out. Don’t see Ken yet.

Roger is with Jane.

216 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 2:33:24pm

re: #207 Charles Johnson

Huh?

‘It’s immoral to kill an unborn baby.’

One side approves of the death penalty but not abortion

The other approves abortion on demand but not the death penalty.

I’ve yet to find a political party or that approves or dispproves of both.

217 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 2:34:06pm

I predict it’ll have one of the biggest opening weekends in the history of cinema. Can’t wait to see how the Misogynist Dork Movement spins that.

218 allegro  May 15, 2015 2:34:23pm

re: #215 #FergusonFireside

IDK!!!!! I’ll definitely find out. Don’t see Ken yet.

Roger is with Jane.

Someday soon I’ll go back to the beginning to watch the whole thing again. Should be real interesting finding all the clues dropped to the future. I’m gonna miss Mad Men big!

219 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:35:03pm
220 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:35:11pm

re: #215 #FergusonFireside

IDK!!!!! I’ll definitely find out. Don’t see Ken yet.

Roger is with Jane.

Nah, I missed that one. It’s called “Guy Walks Into an Advertising Agency”

arrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
221 Kragar  May 15, 2015 2:35:36pm
222 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:36:02pm

re: #218 allegro

Someday soon I’ll go back to the beginning to watch the whole thing again. Should be real interesting finding all the clues dropped to the future. I’m gonna miss Mad Men big!

Me too. We have to pay for the series I found out. I’ll pay, what ev, it’s worth it.

223 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 2:36:57pm
224 FemNaziBitch  May 15, 2015 2:37:01pm

re: #112 ObserverArt

And, with your last sentence in mind, do you ever ask yourself if the death penalty is an easy way out?

I think one must always keep in mind the victim and all that knew them.

Again, I’ve heard that same argument by anti-choice advocates.

225 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 2:37:28pm

bbl

226 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:37:59pm
227 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 2:38:09pm

And now for something completely different:


Looks like they’re running a gold plated Gnome Monosoupape. That’s cool, the Gnome is a WWI aircraft engine that produces over 100 HP. The only bummer is that the Gnome, like its contemporaries the Le Rhone and Oberursel, mounts the crankshaft so the cylinders and crankcase do the spinning. Gyroscopic precession would be wicked on this bike.
228 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 2:39:16pm

Gawd, conservatives on Twitter today. They taste blood and they love it.

229 blueraven  May 15, 2015 2:39:37pm

NTSB Presser now. They have talked to engineer, says very cooperative.

Said Conductor overheard another engineer talking about that other train being struck by something.

230 allegro  May 15, 2015 2:41:19pm

re: #222 #FergusonFireside

Me too. We have to pay for the series I found out. I’ll pay, what ev, it’s worth it.

Netflix is less than $9/mo. Won’t be too painful. :D

231 allegro  May 15, 2015 2:43:33pm

re: #224 FemNaziBitch

Again, I’ve heard that same argument by anti-choice advocates.

This is a bullshit equivalence, IMO.

232 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 2:44:16pm

re: #216 FemNaziBitch

‘It’s immoral to kill an unborn baby.’

One side approves of the death penalty but not abortion

The other approves abortion on demand but not the death penalty.

I’ve yet to find a political party or that approves or dispproves of both.

You’re equating abortion to the death penalty? Seriously? I’m not getting your point at all.

233 Kragar  May 15, 2015 2:44:42pm
234 Jenner7  May 15, 2015 2:47:38pm

I thought I would lose interest after a couple of episodes of Mad Men and now I’m on Season 4.

235 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 2:48:59pm
236 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 2:49:17pm

Stan Wawrinka just trounced Rafa Nadal in straight sets (7-6, 6-2) in their Italian Open quarter-final match. What a great game of tennis by Stan!

237 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 2:50:17pm
238 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 2:50:44pm

re: #235 Charles Johnson

I’m guessing UpChuck tells the unpaid people that working for him for free will look good on their resumes.

:D

239 Kragar  May 15, 2015 2:50:46pm

re: #236 De Kolta Chair

Stan Wawrinka just trounced Rafa Nadal in their Italian Open quarter-final match in straight sets (7-6, 6-2). What a match!

FUCK YEAH!

What is this thing you’re talking about?

240 Jebediah, RBG  May 15, 2015 2:51:20pm

re: #227 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Spinning cylinders and crankcase? Does the gas tank spin, too? If not, it seems that sealing the junction between non-spinning fuel line and spinning fuel line would be a challenge.

As for the gyroscopic precession - you can go ahead and ride it first, I don’t mind. Really. It’s OK.

241 Kragar  May 15, 2015 2:52:29pm

re: #238 Backwoods_Sleuth

242 goddamnedfrank  May 15, 2015 2:53:11pm

re: #216 FemNaziBitch

‘It’s immoral to kill an unborn baby.’

One side approves of the death penalty but not abortion

The other approves abortion on demand but not the death penalty.

I’ve yet to find a political party or that approves or dispproves of both.

You’re ignoring the role sentience plays in this debate. In the case of abortion, at least before a brain develops capable of self awareness, there is no personhood. You can’t make the same claim with regards to the death penalty, where there is always a person being killed by the State. Even after self awareness develops in the case of abortion there is still an argument over comparative rights to the woman’s body, which is especially important in cases where her health and safety are at stake. This element is again totally absent in the case of the death penalty.

243 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 2:56:15pm

Interesting development….

244 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 2:57:18pm

re: #239 Kragar

FUCK YEAH!

What is this thing you’re talking about?

Tetherball, I think.

245 Dr. Matt  May 15, 2015 2:57:57pm

re: #244 De Kolta Chair

Tetherball, I think.

Jai alai championships.

246 Kragar  May 15, 2015 2:58:58pm

re: #245 Dr. Matt

Jai alai championships.

Men’s free style nude full contact jarts

247 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 2:59:18pm

NTSB presser on MSNBC right now. They talked to engineer for hour and a half. Said he was not sick nor experiencing any difficulty, but didn’t remember anything about the ax.

Asst conductor on Amtrak train was a female. She said she heard engineer say train had been hit with something (over radio—she was in 4th car, I think NTSB spox said). Another conductor was in another car. One said engineer was nice person to work for and the other, a male, called him “professional”. This was Bostian’s return trip to NY—had done a previous run from NY to DC and was returning. NTSB spox said they didn’t have his actual schedule for that day right now.

NTSB doesn’t do blood work; it’s done by Amtrak and they have conducted it according to regs; sent to independent lab, then NTSB sends to FAA lab, also, to do a more extensive testing.

FBI looking at windshield of train. Said there is a “circular” hole on the left bottom of it, but refused to comment further.

No conclusions will be made until entire investigation is completed.

248 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:01:39pm

re: #243 Dr. Matt

The Daily Beast is not worth reading.

249 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 3:01:43pm

re: #246 Kragar

Men’s free style nude full contact jarts

Oh good, now you’ve gone and made Roger Federer cry, you monster!
250 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:03:40pm

re: #243 Dr. Matt

Jesusfuckingchrist, this doesn’t even come close to real journalism.

“A source claims that electronic snafus on a previous route may have led to an engineer’s state of exhaustion on Tuesday’s fatal run.”

The NTSB just said that they actually talked to Bostian for an hour and a half, and he indicated he was not sick and had no problems with the way he felt prior to the ax.

251 EPR-radar  May 15, 2015 3:04:03pm

OT, I really hate chest colds. When recovery starts is especially annoying, since for me that means worse coughing fits.

252 Kragar  May 15, 2015 3:06:07pm
253 A Cranky One  May 15, 2015 3:06:12pm

It’s Friday. Time to go home!

Later, Lizards!

254 goddamnedfrank  May 15, 2015 3:12:07pm

The other crucial difference between the death penalty vs. abortion debates is that while they’re both ethical controversies, only the death penalty is intrinsically a matter of public policy. This is because only the death penalty is carried out by the State, and only the State, in the name of the people. It is in effect a singular exception to the rule against the deliberate and totally unnecessary killing of a legal person. Abortion on the other hand, on top of not involving the killing of self aware persons, is totally a private matter, and we’ve gone to great lengths to make sure that it always remains so (i.e. the Hyde Amendment.) Those who oppose abortion can and will remain incensed that the State allows it at all, but this is a far cry from having the institutions of their own government actively design and implement it in their names using their tax dollars.

255 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 3:12:39pm

re: #247 Justanotherhuman

NTSB presser on MSNBC right now. They talked to engineer for hour and a half. Said he was not sick nor experiencing any difficulty, but didn’t remember anything about the ax.

Asst conductor on Amtrak train was a female. She said she heard engineer say train had been hit with something (over radio—she was in 4th car, I think NTSB spox said). Another conductor was in another car. One said engineer was nice person to work for and the other, a male, called him “professional”. This was Bostian’s return trip to NY—had done a previous run from NY to DC and was returning. NTSB spox said they didn’t have his actual schedule for that day right now.

NTSB doesn’t do blood work; it’s done by Amtrak and they have conducted it according to regs; sent to independent lab, then NTSB sends to FAA lab, also, to do a more extensive testing.

FBI looking at windshield of train. Said there is a “circular” hole on the left bottom of it, but refused to comment further.

No conclusions will be made until entire investigation is completed.

Hmmm.

256 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:14:36pm

Hey, UpChuck you coward, you blocked me!

257 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:16:33pm

re: #255 Charles Johnson

To clarify: They’re saying Bostian was actually talking to a Septa engineer about Bostian’s train being hit with something, and that’s what she heard on the radio. He also said after leaving the station, he doesn’t remember anything else. So, I’m wondering if he was somehow struck and blacked out?

258 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:21:56pm

NTSB twitter line on today’s presser, to clarify somewhat:

twitter.com

259 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:22:27pm

Classy:

260 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:23:14pm

re: #258 Justanotherhuman

Please refresh this to include comment about SEPTA train. Meh.

261 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:25:20pm

Need moar cat, also

262 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 3:26:12pm

It looks like the theory that the train was struck by something is gaining credence.

263 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 3:26:43pm
264 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:27:33pm

re: #258 Justanotherhuman

I saw something this morning that included tweets from a young girl whose father was stuck on the SEPTA train. She said that the people on the train were told over the intercom that it was a bullet that hit the SEPTA train.

265 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:28:12pm
266 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 3:29:27pm

re: #240 Jebediah, RBG

Spinning cylinders and crankcase? Does the gas tank spin, too? If not, it seems that sealing the junction between non-spinning fuel line and spinning fuel line would be a challenge.

As for the gyroscopic precession - you can go ahead and ride it first, I don’t mind. Really. It’s OK.

It’s a brilliant design. The air/fuel mixture is fed into the crankcase and piped to the cylinders. These engines had no throttle, the pilot used a coupe button to cut off the spark when he wanted to slow the engine. You can see the induction plumbing in the picture below.

267 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:30:55pm

I got a handheld bug zapper that looks like a heavy duty badminton racket.
Just used it for the first time on a huge carpenter bee that got inside the house.
Very impressive zap!
All is good…the bee was merely stunned for a few moments, long enough for me to capture it and safely release outdoors where it flew away, thinking no doubt “WTF just happened there???”

268 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:31:07pm

re: #264 Backwoods_Sleuth

Very well could have been. And I’m wondering if it also grazed Bostian who appears, from what he’s saying about his recollection, to have blacked out. If his hand was on the throttle and he fell forward, he could have pushed on it, I suppose.

Any scrapes or cuts on his face could have been attributed incorrectly to the crash itself, also.

269 lawhawk  May 15, 2015 3:31:14pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

Now watch the right wingers latch on to this as proof that the jump to conclusions that Amtrak funding needs to be increased was BS.

That, of course, ignores that the PTC would have prevented the speed from 1) going to over 100mph in the segment before the curve where the speed limit was 80; and 2) going above 50mph in the curve. In both cases, the speed would have been limited to a safe limit that would have avoided a derailment at the curve.

So, it still is an infrastructure issue. It also happens to be an infrastructure issue since Amtrak lacks the funds to properly secure its ROW against trespassers. It’s an ongoing issue.

270 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 3:31:58pm

re: #259 Backwoods_Sleuth

And Chuck wonders why he’s radioactive anywhere above the bottom of the pond.

271 HappyWarrior  May 15, 2015 3:33:45pm

re: #259 Backwoods_Sleuth

Classy:

[Embedded content]

Yep. I’m not a fan of her husband at all but CCJ is again showing what a low class asshole he is. Note to Chuckles, this was never intended to be an only English speaking country and in fact the state where the Bushes reside was speaking Spanish long before English speakers arrived.

272 HappyWarrior  May 15, 2015 3:34:06pm

re: #270 Higgs Boson’s Mate

And Chuck wonders why he’s radioactive anywhere above the bottom of the pond.

He’ll be asking Jeb to drinks by the end of primary season I guarantee it.

273 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 3:34:13pm

Later…gson has flat tire. Off to the rescue.

274 Decatur Deb  May 15, 2015 3:34:20pm

There is a reason the NTSB works in multiples of the 24-Week Rule.

275 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:34:27pm

re: #266 Higgs Boson’s Mate

It’s a brilliant design. The air/fuel mixture is fed into the crankcase and piped to the cylinders. These engines had no throttle, the pilot used a coupe button to cut off the spark when he wanted to slow the engine. You can see the induction plumbing in the picture below.

[Embedded content]

Hard to lubricate, though—that was its Achilles Heel.

Edited to remove crap I decided not to post hours ago….

276 Romantic Heretic  May 15, 2015 3:35:54pm

re: #44 danarchy

Sorry but support for the death penalty runs over 60% in this country, that is not just conservatives. Also, this is a Massachusetts jury, so as percentages go a majority of them were likely liberal.

For the record I support the death penalty, especially in a case like this where we are beyond reasonable doubt and well into NO doubt territory.

I’d be okay with the death penalty except for three problems.

First, mistakes cannot be fixed. Once a person is dead nothing can be done. If it is later found they are innocent then, by my standards, the person was murdered in cold blood and with malice aforethought.

Second, capital punishment is not carried out fairly. Race plays a major part in deciding whether a person dies or not, as does the race of the victim. There are also no rich people on Death Row.

Thirdly, capital punishment is a political tool, not a judicial one. As point two demonstrates. It is used not to bring justice but to enforce the political status quo.

If we can solve these three problems I’ll support the death penalty.

277 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 3:36:36pm

Are there voice recorders on these trains? If so, then maybe we will find out if he did indeed say something.

278 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:37:21pm

re: #275 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Pneumoconiosis (black lung disease) for KY, WV and PA. No big surprise there.

279 Jebediah, RBG  May 15, 2015 3:37:58pm

re: #266 Higgs Boson’s Mate

That is cool!
Is there some similarly cool and clever scheme for getting oil onto the cylinder walls? I’m still OK with you taking the first ride.
Not nearly as cool looking, but here’s a an Australian V8 bike with 334 HP and a decent exhaust note.

EDIT: It’s too interesting, had to look it up - total loss two stroke style with castor oil…. maybe not totally practical for a daily commuter bike, so I had to cancel my order.

280 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:38:23pm

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pneumoconiosis (black lung disease) for KY, WV and PA. No big surprise there.

Ha! I decided not to repost that when the death penalty discussion got started but it somehow remained in the window.

281 HappyWarrior  May 15, 2015 3:38:35pm

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pneumoconiosis (black lung disease) for KY, WV and PA. No big surprise there.

Yeah not at all sadly. That’s how two of my great grandfathers went.

282 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 3:40:44pm
283 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:40:45pm

re: #281 HappyWarrior

Yeah not at all sadly. That’s how two of my great grandfathers went.

To clean it up, this was what I was referring to in the last thread.

284 blueraven  May 15, 2015 3:40:52pm

re: #279 Jebediah, RBG

That is cool!
Is there some similarly cool and clever scheme for getting oil onto the cylinder walls? I’m still OK with you taking the first ride.
Not nearly as cool looking, but here’s a an Australian V8 bike with 334 HP and a decent exhaust note.

Greetings hatchling!

Did you bring beer? It is Friday and I think we could all use one about now.

285 Lord Of The Pies  May 15, 2015 3:45:41pm

re: #267 Backwoods_Sleuth

I got a handheld bug zapper that looks like a heavy duty badminton racket.
Just used it for the first time on a huge carpenter bee that got inside the house.
Very impressive zap!
All is good…the bee was merely stunned for a few moments, long enough for me to capture it and safely release outdoors where it flew away, thinking no doubt “WTF just happened there???”

So it’s a bee taser?

286 Mike Lamb  May 15, 2015 3:46:27pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

What is the purpose of the death penalty? It doesn’t bring victims back to life, and life in Supermax prison takes the criminal out of society forever, making it impossible for him or her to hurt anyone else.

So we’re down to this: the purpose of the death penalty is purely and simply vengeance. And I don’t believe the government should be in the vengeance business.

I view it as about a forfeiture of rights. There are certain acts that cause a person to forfeit the right to live.

287 Jebediah, RBG  May 15, 2015 3:46:50pm

re: #284 blueraven
Thanks! And as for beer, sorry, no - clearly I am not aware of all Internet traditions. But I have some at home, I think, and I’m off work in about fifteen, so…
Can I blame Higgs? He lured me in with that picture.

288 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:48:13pm

re: #279 Jebediah, RBG

That is cool!
Is there some similarly cool and clever scheme for getting oil onto the cylinder walls? I’m still OK with you taking the first ride.
Not nearly as cool looking, but here’s a an Australian V8 bike with 334 HP and a decent exhaust note.

It wasn’t very cool and clever—and it’s basically why they gave up on this kind of engine even later in WWI. It just depended on oil mist to lubricate the cylinders, burning the oil in the process. There was some reason why only castor oil would do the job, so they were pretty smelly as well.

289 Mike Lamb  May 15, 2015 3:48:30pm

re: #106 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Those on the bubble get Thunderdome.

Those inside get Celebrity Deathmatch.

Or is it backwards. Either way, with the pool of GOPers running getting shallower by the moment, they’ve got far more than 12 running or are expected to run.

With or without the voices in some of these yahoos’ heads?

290 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:49:19pm

re: #289 Mike Lamb

With or without the voices in some of these yahoos’ heads?

Or the toupees on their heads?

291 Romantic Heretic  May 15, 2015 3:50:24pm

re: #276 Romantic Heretic

Adding a little something.

Should the death penalty be returned to Canada I will lobby to have the method of execution be a pistol bullet in the back of the head and that the position of executioner be filled by conscription. Any person eligible to vote could receive a letter that reads, “On this date you will report to this prison by this time where you will execute this person.”

The bullet is because it’s messy and personal so people can’t kid themselves about what they’ve done.

Conscription is so that people have to do their own killing. No hiding behind other people.

It’s been my experience that those who support capital punishment back off if they might get their own hands dirty.

292 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 3:51:30pm

re: #279 Jebediah, RBG

That is cool!
Is there some similarly cool and clever scheme for getting oil onto the cylinder walls? I’m still OK with you taking the first ride.
Not nearly as cool looking, but here’s a an Australian V8 bike with 334 HP and a decent exhaust note.

EDIT: It’s too interesting, had to look it up - total loss two stroke style with castor oil…. maybe not totally practical for a daily commuter bike, so I had to cancel my order.

Welcome! That bike is killer. I want one of those V8 for my Miata. A 67 year old guy with a 334HP Miata, what could go wrong?

293 Ace-o-aces  May 15, 2015 3:52:37pm
294 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 3:53:14pm

re: #293 Ace-o-aces

295 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:53:18pm

re: #291 Romantic Heretic

Adding a little something.

Should the death penalty be returned to Canada I will lobby to have the method of execution be a pistol bullet in the back of the head and that the position of executioner be filled by conscription. Any person eligible to vote could receive a letter that reads, “On this date you will report to this prison by this time where you will execute this person.”

The bullet is because it’s messy and personal so people can’t kid themselves about what they’ve done.

Conscription is so that people have to do their own killing. No hiding behind other people.

It’s been my experience that those who support capital punishment back off if they might get their own hands dirty.

In Bolshevik parlance: “Nine grams in the back of the head”. They never had trouble finding executioners, but your idea of obligating everybody to take a chance on being the one to do it is brilliant. Although in some states a majority might welcome it, sadly.

296 Shiplord Kirel  May 15, 2015 3:54:36pm

re: #240 Jebediah, RBG

Spinning cylinders and crankcase? Does the gas tank spin, too? If not, it seems that sealing the junction between non-spinning fuel line and spinning fuel line would be a challenge.

As for the gyroscopic precession - you can go ahead and ride it first, I don’t mind. Really. It’s OK.

Many thousands of these rotary engines were built and flown during World War I, though the configuration didn’t survive the war by much. They often did leak a fine mist of fuel, which wasn’t much of a hazard compared to everything else that was going on. They were lubed with castor oil, which also sprayed out in a fine mist, right into the pilot’s face. Results were as expected and veteran pilots often mentioned that it was a great blessing that flights were short.
The air cooled round engines seen in World War 2 and many later aircraft were static radial engines, in which the engine is stationary and the crankshaft turns as in any other piston engine. These were often gigantic compared to the rotaries, with ratings nudging 4000 hp by the time turbines displaced them in high power applications.
A friend of mine, a licensed pilot no less, had the idea that ALL radials spin like the Great War rotaries. This includes the huge motors used on KC-97s and the like while he was in the AF in the 60s. A KC-97 engine (Pratt and Whitney R-4360) weighed over 3000 pounds. He was relieved to learn that the big engine didn’t spin after all, since the massive propeller was scary enough.

297 Mike Lamb  May 15, 2015 3:55:07pm

re: #293 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Gaydar.

298 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 3:55:16pm

re: #293 Ace-o-aces

Obviously it was some kind of gay seeking missile that was attracted to his gayness!

Just don’t go around humming show tunes.

299 Decatur Deb  May 15, 2015 3:55:32pm

re: #282 De Kolta Chair

[Embedded content]

Two men who evoke strong opinions. Mine haven’t changed since the mid-60s.

300 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 3:59:13pm

This whole “gay activist engineer” thing is so lame. You’d think the RWNJs would be the first ones to jump on “kids throwing rocks” THUGGZ!! or “people shooting at the trains” M00ZLIN TERRISTS!!11!!

301 BeachDem  May 15, 2015 4:00:18pm

re: #259 Backwoods_Sleuth

Classy:

[Embedded content]

Eats shoot and leaves—is she Jeb’s mother, grandmother AND wife? Busy lady (probably a result of gay marriage)//

Just having a little bit of fun with grammar.

302 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 4:01:46pm
303 Ace-o-aces  May 15, 2015 4:01:49pm

re: #259 Backwoods_Sleuth

Classy:

[Embedded content]

You know, @gotnewsfan has just completely stopped retweeting Upchuck. He may have alienated his own fanboy.

304 Jebediah, RBG  May 15, 2015 4:01:49pm

re: #292 Higgs Boson’s Mate

A 67 year old guy with a 334HP Miata, what could go wrong?

Absolutely nothing, that’s what!
334 HP in a bike, however… One of my bikes, when it’s running properly, has a little over 100 HP, and cracking that throttle open hard will give your arms a bit of a stretching. I really can’t imagine what 334 HP would feel like… ah, I’m sure nothing could go wrong there either.

305 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 4:03:00pm

re: #301 BeachDem

Eats shoot and leaves—is she Jeb’s mother, grandmother AND wife? Busy lady (probably a result of gay marriage)//

Just having a little bit of fun with grammar.

Well, she did use the Oxford comma!

306 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  May 15, 2015 4:03:35pm

re: #304 Jebediah, RBG

Drove a Tesla Model S a few weeks ago. Almost like teleportation.

307 Lord Of The Pies  May 15, 2015 4:04:15pm

re: #303 Ace-o-aces

You know, @gotnewsfan has just completely stopped retweeting Upchuck. He may have alienated his own fanboy.

I thought gotnewsfan was Chucky’s sockpuppet.

308 Jebediah, RBG  May 15, 2015 4:06:50pm

re: #306 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)

I am jealous.
Today I drove my 1992 525 with just over 200K miles. Was not at all like teleportation.

309 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 4:08:24pm

good grief:

310 BeachDem  May 15, 2015 4:08:56pm

re: #305 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, she did use the Oxford comma!

True that. I won’t get into parsing “advocate for domestic violence and drug prevention.”

311 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 4:09:32pm
312 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 4:11:05pm

re: #303 Ace-o-aces

Maybe I can resurrect it.

313 BeachDem  May 15, 2015 4:11:11pm

re: #311 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Ah journalism—where have you gone? (Oh—I guess it was all ‘splained earlier today by those paragons of integrity Judy Miller and James O’Keefe.)

314 EPR-radar  May 15, 2015 4:12:00pm

re: #265 Backwoods_Sleuth

I didn’t know there was a ‘Supreme Justice 8-Figure Bank Account Fist’ school of martial arts. Live and learn.

315 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 4:12:18pm

re: #309 Backwoods_Sleuth

good grief:

[Embedded content]

re: #311 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Jesus! Well, he sounds like a real asshole too, but this is absolutely insane.

316 Skip Intro  May 15, 2015 4:13:26pm

re: #312 GlutenFreeJesus

Maybe I can resurrect it.

[Embedded content]

Orly Taitz isn’t doing much these days. She and Chuck would be naturals together, plus she could fix his teeth and translate Spanish for him.

317 Decatur Deb  May 15, 2015 4:15:02pm

re: #316 Skip Intro

Orly Taitz isn’t doing much these days. She and Chuck would be naturals together, plus she could fix his teeth and translate Spanish for him.

And help him find his own place.

318 retired cynic  May 15, 2015 4:15:37pm

re: #316 Skip Intro

Oh, he speaks Spanish like a native. Just ask him.

319 GlutenFreeJesus  May 15, 2015 4:16:27pm

re: #316 Skip Intro

She doesn’t have a billboard. ;)

320 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 4:16:35pm

re: #318 retired cynic

Oh, he speaks Spanish like a native. Just ask him.

He’s fluent, you know…

321 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 4:19:52pm

Chuck needs to call the law firm of Short, Salitieri, Nash and DeBrutish.

322 Skip Intro  May 15, 2015 4:20:34pm

re: #318 retired cynic

Oh, he speaks Spanish like a native. Just ask him.

I don’t think Oompa Loompa is Spanish.

323 wrenchwench  May 15, 2015 4:22:14pm
324 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 4:22:51pm

Well, looked like a nail hole but no nail in it that we could see . He’s only had those tires a couple of months and when he took the damaged one off, he had trouble with one lug nut being too tight and well, the lug broke. But he’s going to take it to the place he bought it and get them to honor the ins he bought for the tires and wheels. Told him to have them weld it back on if possible.

325 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 4:23:07pm
326 CuriousLurker  May 15, 2015 4:25:32pm

I know this is prolly gonna piss off someone (or more than one person), but this concept of retaliatory “eye for an eye” punishment is called qisas in Arabic and is one of the accepted forms of punishment under Islamic penal law.

This article describes several cases of literal eye for an eye punishment in Iran (warning: graphic photo of acid attack victim). So my point is that if anyone is okay with qisas in our legal system, then they shouldn’t be squeamish or critical of it when it happens in places like Iran.

The fact that in Muslim countries the law is based on religion doesn’t make it any worse than when it is done in the West based on secular law. If you think the secular version is somehow ethically/morally superior, please enlighten me about the logic of that. I’m not being snarky, I really want to know if I’m missing something here.

327 retired cynic  May 15, 2015 4:29:22pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

I remember reading a story about King AbdulAziz (founder of Saudi Arabia). A man had fallen from a date palm, and killed her husband by breaking his neck when he fell upon him. The wife went to the chief (King AbdulAziz) and demanded the man’s death, even if it was an accident, as she had lost her husband. The King agreed, and sentenced him to death by having the widow climb the palm and fall down upon him. That was one eye for an eye that got left on the table.

328 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 4:29:46pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

It’s a perfectly valid point. And it’s very revealing to see conservatives actually advocating the same kinds of barbaric capital punishment every time someone like Tsarnaev is sentenced to death.

I banned several people in the early days of LGF for babbling about how we should execute murderers by chopping off their heads like Saudi Arabia.

329 CuriousLurker  May 15, 2015 4:30:06pm

re: #327 retired cynic

Yes! I’ve read that story too.

330 EmmaAnne  May 15, 2015 4:30:52pm

re: #301 BeachDem

Eats shoot and leaves—is she Jeb’s mother, grandmother AND wife? Busy lady (probably a result of gay marriage)//

Just having a little bit of fun with grammar.

I also notice that she is in favor of domestic violence.

//

331 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 4:32:45pm

Oh, now I see why Chuck is creeping on Lauren Chief Elk. She criticized Eve Ensler.

facebook.com

2013.onebillionrising.org

332 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 4:32:51pm

re: #330 EmmaAnne

Yeah, noticed that, also. Not just words matter, but word placement matters, too. : )

333 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 4:35:22pm
334 De Kolta Chair  May 15, 2015 4:35:44pm
Turner Classic Movies is airing Orson Welles’ 1966 masterpiece Chimes At Midnight tonight at 8 Eastern Time. Just thought you should know.
335 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 4:36:56pm

Mad Men Marathon till Sunday night.

That is all I know.

336 makeitstop  May 15, 2015 4:36:58pm

re: #309 Backwoods_Sleuth

good grief:

[Embedded content]

They arrested the stalking victim?

What the hell is it with Zimmerman getting in scrapes that go away in a day or two? Is his family that politically hooked-up?

337 makeitstop  May 15, 2015 4:38:44pm

re: #312 GlutenFreeJesus

I’m looking for a right-wing lawyer in California who wants to sue people.

Basically, he’s looking for a lawyer with the same total lack of ethics and conscience as his.

338 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 4:42:02pm

re: #319 GlutenFreeJesus

She doesn’t have a billboard. ;)

Embedded Image

It’s all good man.

339 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 4:48:10pm

re: #336 makeitstop

Probably. His father was a magistrate (probably the jail type where you’re booked) and I imagine they are pretty hooked up to LE.

Favor bank and all that BS.

340 wrenchwench  May 15, 2015 4:50:02pm

Later, lizards.

341 #FergusonFireside  May 15, 2015 4:52:45pm

re: #336 makeitstop

They arrested the stalking victim?

What the hell is it with Zimmerman getting in scrapes that go away in a day or two? Is his family that politically hooked-up?

Father = retired judge.

(I’m prob behind)

342 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 4:53:28pm

re: #339 Justanotherhuman

That won’t matter when he finally waves his gun in the face of someone who stands his ground.

343 BeachDem  May 15, 2015 4:53:35pm

Just when you thought Bill Maher couldn’t invite any bigger assholes on his show than he has previously, he’s going to have Charles Fucking Murray on tonight. Keee-rist.

(I guess we all know what upchuck will be doing later—fapping to the teevee machine.)

344 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 4:53:54pm

Sweet. I don’t think Lauren Chief Elk will be talking to UpChuck anytime soon.

As much as a cockpunch UpChuck is, it’s good that there’s extensive documentation here and elsewhere of just how horrible a human being he truly is.

345 Shiplord Kirel  May 15, 2015 4:54:35pm

Freepers have picked up this story, and their reaction is even more incoherent than usual.

As far as I can tell, the developing consensus is that the projectile report is part of a union/media/ntsb cover-up put in place because the engineer is gay and must therefore be protected at any cost. They are still digging for evidence to connect him to Mexican Muslims.

Since they were so disappointed to learn that the engineer is white, I thought they might favor ghetto kids throwing stuff, but there isn’t much of that. Otoh, their aversion to the idea of somebody shooting at what they regard as a prominent symbol of the left is understandable, especially since there were several such incidents recently.

346 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 4:55:28pm

Chuck is going to be very pissed off that I spoiled his ambush interview.

347 makeitstop  May 15, 2015 4:57:52pm

re: #346 Charles Johnson

Chuck is going to be very pissed off that I spoiled his ambush interview.

[Embedded content]

Now he’ll double-secret sue you.
/

348 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 4:58:02pm
349 goddamnedfrank  May 15, 2015 4:58:57pm
350 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 4:59:23pm

re: #341 #FergusonFireside

Father = retired judge.

(I’m prob behind)

In NC, “magistrates” don’t generally have a law license and it used to be knowing someone that got you the job. That’s changing, but was probably still in effect when Zimmerman’s father was one in Fairfax Co, VA. He had worked at the DoD (don’t know what capacity) for 22 yrs, so that probably helped (connections). Civil magistrates hear cases like evictions and debts and criminal magistrates book prisoners and take criminal complaints from people.

351 Lord Of The Pies  May 15, 2015 5:00:18pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

I know this is prolly gonna piss off someone (or more than one person), but this concept of retaliatory “eye for an eye” punishment is called qisas in Arabic and is one of the accepted forms of punishment under Islamic penal law.

This article describes several cases of literal eye for an eye punishment in Iran (warning: graphic photo of acid attack victim). So my point is that if anyone is okay with qisas in our legal system, then they shouldn’t be squeamish or critical of it when it happens in places like Iran.

The fact that in Muslim countries the law is based on religion doesn’t make it any worse than when it is done in the West based on secular law. If you think the secular version is somehow ethically/morally superior, please enlighten me about the logic of that. I’m not being snarky, I really want to know if I’m missing something here.

Rabbinic law established early on the Ayin Tachat Ayin represented monetary damages and not literal eye gouging.

352 b.d.  May 15, 2015 5:00:44pm

Jeb Bush’s week explained:

353 EPR-radar  May 15, 2015 5:01:01pm

re: #343 BeachDem

Just when you thought Bill Maher couldn’t invite any bigger assholes on his show than he has previously, he’s going to have Charles Fucking Murray on tonight. Keee-rist.

(I guess we all know what upchuck will be doing later—fapping to the teevee machine.)

That’s a revolting development. Murray is 100% grade-F toxic waste.

354 teleskiguy  May 15, 2015 5:02:34pm
355 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 5:02:36pm

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

356 makeitstop  May 15, 2015 5:03:40pm

re: #353 EPR-radar

That’s a revolting development. Murray is 100% grade-F toxic waste.

I predict a series of ass-kissing tweets from CCJ to Maher.

357 goddamnedfrank  May 15, 2015 5:04:36pm

re: #355 Backwoods_Sleuth

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

[Embedded content]

They probably predicted that he’d shit on their floors.

358 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 5:05:06pm

re: #348 Charles Johnson

Bringing in Newt as a tech reviewer is pure genius: if he can operate something then anyone can.

359 b.d.  May 15, 2015 5:05:39pm

re: #357 goddamnedfrank

They probably predicted that he’d shit on their floors.

Let me guess, he wanted to go to Brown.

360 b.d.  May 15, 2015 5:06:17pm

re: #348 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I can’t wait for Newt’s review of the Walkman

361 Lord Of The Pies  May 15, 2015 5:07:20pm

re: #358 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Bringing in Newt as a tech reviewer is pure genius: if he can operate something then anyone can.

He’ll review all the Stepford femrobots.

362 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 15, 2015 5:08:01pm

re: #355 Backwoods_Sleuth

I had higher everything but was wait listed or rejected from 4 of them.

Meanwhile, back at the Admissions office; “It’s another whiny letter from ‘Crapper.’”
“Tell him we’re full.”

363 BeachDem  May 15, 2015 5:09:03pm

re: #353 EPR-radar

That’s a revolting development. Murray is 100% grade-F toxic waste.

I think Maher has had him on before as an interview guest—this time he’ll be spewing on the panel. Thanks but not thanks. (Bummer—John Waters is also on, but I just can’t with Murray.)

364 BeachDem  May 15, 2015 5:11:30pm

re: #355 Backwoods_Sleuth

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

[Embedded content]

And even with a (probable) recommendation from Alan Dershowitz and going to a prestigious prep school. Apparently upchuck’s reputation for being an asshole in high school came to the attention of those discerning Ivy admissions folks. Sucks to be upchuck.

365 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 5:12:12pm

re: #363 BeachDem

I think Maher has had him on before as an interview guest—this time he’ll be spewing on the panel. Thanks but not thanks. (Bummer—John Waters is also on, but I just can’t with Murray.)

John Waters should be able to easily put Murray down in his usual, elegant way without mussing up a hair. : )

366 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 5:14:52pm

I promise—last of the cats.

367 Charles Johnson  May 15, 2015 5:15:32pm

re: #343 BeachDem

Just when you thought Bill Maher couldn’t invite any bigger assholes on his show than he has previously, he’s going to have Charles Fucking Murray on tonight. Keee-rist.

(I guess we all know what upchuck will be doing later—fapping to the teevee machine.)

I don’t watch Bill Maher’s show. Never did like his brand of smarmy self-satisfied “humor.”

368 Shiplord Kirel  May 15, 2015 5:20:28pm

My brief message about my wife’s birthday has so far received 40 updings.

Besides its many other scaly virtues, Lizard Nation is a very caring and sensitive group. I know for many of you this comes from similar personal experience of grief and loss.

Thank you.

369 b.d.  May 15, 2015 5:21:20pm

re: #367 Charles Johnson

I don’t watch Bill Maher’s show. Never did like his brand of smarmy, self-satisfied “humor.”

Maher is a douche, plain and simple. Last week he was saying that Texas was Somalia. Well has Somalia or even any other large city in the USA elected a woman Homosexual as Mayor (Houston) or Sheriff (Dallas)?

His frivolous treatment of the California drought was about the last straw for me though considering it is his home.

Libertarians make good comedians until they cross the line in believing their own BS

370 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 5:22:19pm

Press release from PD on Zimmeman shooting. Not much. Is Zimmerman not cooperating? They’ve already searched Apperson’s vehicle, but not Z’s.

371 PhillyPretzel  May 15, 2015 5:22:23pm

re: #368 Shiplord Kirel

You are very welcome. :)

372 Nyet  May 15, 2015 5:22:23pm

re: #30 Timothy Watson

Are you saying that there are no crimes for which the death penalty is appropriate?

“Appropriate” is a weasel word. There may be crimes for which death penalty is appropriate, but there should still be no death penalty, period.

373 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 5:25:01pm

re: #369 b.d.

Maher is a douche, plain and simple. Last week he was saying that Texas was Somalia. Well has Somalia or even any other large city in the USA elected a woman Homosexual as Mayor (Houston) or Sheriff (Dallas)?

His frivolous treatment of the California drought was about the last straw for me though considering it is his home.

Libertarians make good comedians until they cross the line in believing their own BS

I would watch Politically Incorrect occasionally in its early days because he would have Janeane Garofalo (with whom I’m madly in love) on frequently, but it didn’t take long for his style to drive me away.

It was still bullshit when he was hounded off the network for saying that suicide attackers can’t exactly be described as “cowards”.

Edited: Too frequent “frequentlies”.

374 Skip Intro  May 15, 2015 5:25:41pm

re: #370 Justanotherhuman

Press release from PD on Zimmeman shooting. Not much. Is Zimmerman not cooperating? They’ve already searched Apperson’s vehicle, but not Z’s.

[Embedded content]

They’re just giving Zimmerman plenty of time to clean up any incriminating evidence.

375 b.d.  May 15, 2015 5:26:08pm

If the death penalty is a deterrent then the War on Terror
should be over within the next week or so and the mere mention of us having a drone overhead should make everyone act right.

376 Nyet  May 15, 2015 5:26:33pm

re: #44 danarchy

For the record I support the death penalty, especially in a case like this where we are beyond reasonable doubt and well into NO doubt territory.

In each case of death penalty there is no doubt. Until there is.

377 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 15, 2015 5:28:56pm

re: #376 Nyet

In each case of death penalty there is no doubt. Until there is.

“He must be guilty or he wouldn’t have been arrested.” ///

378 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 15, 2015 5:29:49pm

re: #370 Justanotherhuman

Press release is dated May 12.

379 Justanotherhuman  May 15, 2015 5:33:42pm

re: #378 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yeah, but just put on Twitter today.

380 Nyet  May 15, 2015 5:37:30pm

It doesn’t matter if we imagine that in some cases we’re nearly 100% sure. There is a slippery slope here, because these “sure” cases still open door to death penalty in case of innocence. After all, all verdicts in criminal cases are supposed to be “beyond the reasonable doubt”. There is no verdict “he’s guilty, but maybe not quite”. It’s just “guilty” or not.


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