Pages

Jump to bottom

5 comments

1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 3:18:01pm
I will note here that “functional equivalence” arises from and is driven by the nature of human languages, and that modern languages can not be mapped to ancient Hebrew and Greek on a “word-for-word” basis. I fear that Beal is letting his own biases color his analysis too much here.

I don’t think so. What I think is meant here is the paraphrases like The Living Bible. That there is no absolute word-for-word translation is a given and I highly doubt that’s what is meant here. KJV or NIV are still literal translations.

2 dartmydog  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 4:52:16pm

Learn hebrew if your serious about the Torah, otherwise accept the pugilism of other peoples translations.

3 Steve Dutch  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 6:07:29pm

Nothing new about modern translations with an agenda. In the King James version, we read the familiar story of David and Goliath in 1 Samuel 17. But then in 2 Samuel 21:19 we read:

Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

Those italics mean the words are not in the original sources. So the original text read:

Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear like a weaver’s beam.

What this means is “Bible believing” Christians changed the Bible to eliminate a contradiction. When pressed, apologists like Josh McDowell mumble something about “copyist errors.” Oh really? McDowell makes a big deal about how not a single letter was to be copied from memory, even a single error made a scroll invalid, and even meaningless diacritical marks were copied exactly, then, when a key phrase from a story everybody knew by heart turns up missing, guess what? “Copyist errors.”

For the record, there’s an all but identical verse in 1 Chronicles 20:5 that does include the missing words. (Unless that writer fudged, too.) So it’s a perfectly sensible interpretation. But then, I don’t believe the Bible has to be taken word for word literally.

4 freetoken  Sun, Feb 13, 2011 8:10:11pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

Yes, there is a plethora of paraphrase-based Bibles out there.

However, the NIV is not strictly “word for word”, and that is one reason why the traditionalists (e.g., KJV-only) don’t like it. From the Wikipedia entry on the NIV:

The translation is a balance between word-for-word and thought-for-thought. Recent archaeological and linguistic discoveries helped in understanding traditionally difficult passages to translate. Familiar spellings of traditional translations were generally retained.

The “thought for thought” approach is a type of functional equivalence:

Dynamic equivalence (also known as functional equivalence) attempts to convey the thought expressed in a source text (if necessary, at the expense of literalness, original word order, the source text’s grammatical voice, etc.), while formal equivalence attempts to render the text word-for-word (if necessary, at the expense of natural expression in the target language). The two approaches represent emphasis, respectively, on readability and on literal fidelity to the source text. There is no sharp boundary between dynamic and formal equivalence. Broadly, the two represent a spectrum of translation approaches.

The point is, in the bigger picture, the traditionalists reject translations like the NIV or even more so the earlier RSV because of exactly what Beal, and Miller, describe - the traditionalists are familiar with the past.

I do think Beal, as described by Miller, is being a bit too touchy about the translation thing. But his overall picture of American Christianity appears to be a pretty good one.

Western Europe is described sometimes as being “post-Christian”. I propose that so much of what we see as the “culture war” here in the US is a battle by traditional, conservative Christians in this country to counter what otherwise one would conclude is inevitable (many years in the future) - the US too will someday be “post-Christian.” The fundamentalists intuit, even if they can’t (or their leaders won’t) express it intellectually and formally, that the basis of their belief system isn’t as sure (full of certitude) in light of modern developments as they would like to pretend it to be.

And, it is this tension between what is claimed to be believed and what the world is now telling them that is driving their move into politics and theocracy, or as Miller interprets Beal, ” the last great efflorescence of the old authoritative ideal before people move on “.

5 sffilk  Mon, Feb 14, 2011 9:24:05am

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

I don’t think so. What I think is meant here is the paraphrases like The Living Bible. That there is no absolute word-for-word translation is a given and I highly doubt that’s what is meant here. KJV or NIV are still literal translations.

Actually, the KJV is not a literal translation. It was rewritten to make the Jesus=messiah prophecy self-fulfilling. If you want to see for yourself, compare the KJV to any Jewish version, be it Hirsch, Schottenstein, Masoretic, etc.


This page has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Best of April 2024 Nothing new here but these are a look back at the a few good images from the past month. Despite the weather, I was quite pleased with several of them. These were taken with older lenses (made from the ...
William Lewis
Yesterday
Views: 128 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 391 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1