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11 comments

1 nines09  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 9:39:00am

Well that's reassuring.

2 elizajane  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 9:53:22am

But think how much better it would have been if all the bystanders had been armed too! Then there could have been a huge shoot-out in which scores of people were injured, some fatally. I mean, that's what the NRA wants, right?

3 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 10:06:51am

re: #2 elizajane

I get your feelings but hang on a sec okay? Not even the evil wicked NRA wants anything like that. I'm not a fan of them either. You sound a little like the nuts who excoriate the ACLU as "all criminal lovers union".

Please consider this-After a review of CCW rates in Colorado I can see there was almost certainly a person or two (perhaps more) with a CCW in the theater at Aurora. They just fled sensibly with the rest of the crowd that could. Crime happens all the time in the presence of armed civilians and they stay out of it unless it's imminent or somebody screws up. Which can happen but is pretty rare for CCW holders.

Of course there are the rambo types out there. But then you have the others. Some of us need to carry as we got felon predators after our gold, money, or days deposit. It sucks to carry concealed actually. Inconvenient and uncomfortable day in and day out.

4 nines09  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 10:17:49am

Here's the video. Watch the guys on the bench.
[Link: bcove.me...]

5 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 11:09:11am

The video is quite helpful, thanks.

It makes it apparent that bystanders were shot not because a pair of cops just randomly blasted away into the midst of a crowd, but that because of positioning they were forced to shoot down the length of the sidewalk where any number of people were downrange.

The armed subject was perhaps six or seven feet from the closest officer and had his weapon out and pointed at him, I can't tell from the video whether he actually fired or not but witness accounts state that he did. It certainly appears to me as though the officers had no choice other than to open fire on the subject immediately.

One might wish that their aim had been a little more accurate and that fewer bullets had missed the subject and struck innocent people walking on the sidewalk, and I'm quite sure that those officers wish that were true as well right now. But in a sudden and life threatening situation like this one statistics show over and over that even the best marksman's aim tends to suffer very badly.

I cannot fault the police for defending themselves, even if the fact that they hit nine bystanders "sounds" remarkably inept on the face of it. I simply do not see where they had any choice. We should all just be very thankful that no one other than the subject and his victim were actually killed as a result.

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 11:30:02am

re: #5 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

The video is quite helpful, thanks.

It makes it apparent that bystanders were shot not because a pair of cops just randomly blasted away into the midst of a crowd, but that because of positioning they were forced to shoot down the length of the sidewalk where any number of people were downrange.

The armed subject was perhaps six or seven feet from the closest officer and had his weapon out and pointed at him, I can't tell from the video whether he actually fired or not but witness accounts state that he did. It certainly appears to me as though the officers had no choice other than to open fire on the subject immediately.

One might wish that their aim had been a little more accurate and that fewer bullets had missed the subject and struck innocent people walking on the sidewalk, and I'm quite sure that those officers wish that were true as well right now. But in a sudden and life threatening situation like this one statistics show over and over that even the best marksman's aim tends to suffer very badly.

I cannot fault the police for defending themselves, even if the fact that they hit nine bystanders "sounds" remarkably inept on the face of it. I simply do not see where they had any choice. We should all just be very thankful that no one other than the subject and his victim were actually killed as a result.

I did like the guy who was shot in the arm in the fracas, who said, "Stuff happens." New Yorkers!

7 Locker  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 11:47:09am

re: #3 Daniel Ballard

I think it's naive to believe that arming everyone wouldn't result in shoot outs all over the place. That's like saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" while ignoring the fact that a gun makes it a whole lot freaking easier to kill someone.

8 nines09  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 11:48:26am

re: #5 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I agree. On first blush it sounds like just unloading with the casualties. The video shows it was more controlled than that. Nothing like Hollywood,eh?

9 Achilles Tang  Sat, Aug 25, 2012 12:07:45pm

All I can think about this is, when did they stop training the police how to use weapons? 16 shots in a crowded street from perhaps 20 feet away, and most of them miss the target and hit someone else obviously in the line of fire.

I'm sorry, but this calls for an overhaul of the NY police force methods.

10 BishopX  Sun, Aug 26, 2012 5:24:13am

The better question is, in this day and age of surveillance, does running after an armed suspect on a crowded street with your guns drawn make sense? Once that construction worker told the police that a man with a gun had shot someone, the fact that more people were going to get hurt became inescapable.

11 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 26, 2012 7:25:06am

re: #9 Achilles Tang

All I can think about this is, when did they stop training the police how to use weapons? 16 shots in a crowded street from perhaps 20 feet away, and most of them miss the target and hit someone else obviously in the line of fire.

I'm sorry, but this calls for an overhaul of the NY police force methods.

A somewhat valid point - more money on weapons training and less on Muslim surveillance might make the average New Yorker a lot safer.


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