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1 Destro  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 12:38:10pm

My Honey Boo Boo partisan meme must have stung, eh?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

How the Privatization of NASA's The Learning Channel devolved into a for-profit channel pushing Honey Boo Boo

My previous posts on PBS/Big Bird vs. TLC/Honey Boo Boo:

Dollar Makes me Holler: Honey Boo Boo's Critique of Post-Capitalist America

Why publicly fund PBS' Big Bird? Private for profit version is The Learning Channel's #1 rated show 'Here Comes Honey Boo Boo'

And what they still don't get with defensive comments like this: Please do note NASA still has it’s own TV channel in 1080 HD . Lots of space science and programming there is that it shows the need for PUBLIC financed TV channels because the FOR PROFIT model will more than likely regress over time.

2 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 12:58:12pm

Surprised the History channel isn't on there. Anyhow, the problem with me really isn't public versus private but that shows like this are so popular.

3 Destro  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 1:05:56pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

If shows like this are popular the free market (private sector) makes more of them. Also, the cost of production is factored in - even if Americans are not into these shows they are so cheap to produce they can suffer a loss of viewers and still make mega bucks.

All this shows the inability for educational programing being a viable entity in a free market setting without govt subsidies.

4 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 1:07:53pm

re: #1 Destro

Stung? Far too strong a term. When I saw the Wired article I saw a better chance to respond than in your static Page. Blaming Reaganism for events that transpired before his term is wrong. PBS was and is already private as Obdicut tried to explain.

Your premise fails to explain how we still have lots of great educational/science programming ever since in TV both gov and commercial. Like NASA TV (gov), Through The Wormhole, Universe, Nature. I could name many more. All but NASA are private commercial channels.

I have a different view as to how we got to such crappy programming on TLC and the rest. The audience as it is and bad business decisions. They ruined the brands.

Edit-
I don't expect the Redditors to respond so well to this Page as they did to yours, my point undermines the rather breathless election year accusations this is all the fault of Reaganism.

5 Destro  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 1:36:26pm

re: #4 Daniel Ballard

I have three words for you to show what privatizing capitalists did to a public funded channel (TLC) once linked with education and NASA: Honey Boo Boo.

I thought the free market was supposed to produce superior results to guberment programs?

6 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 2:09:32pm

re: #5 Destro

I have three words for you to show what privatizing capitalists did to a public funded channel (TLC) once linked with education and NASA: Honey Boo Boo.

I thought the free market was supposed to produce superior results to guberment programs?

At no point did I claim the private/capitalist market never makes bad product. Or that it has high moral motivations. So, how many examples of good commercial programming will it take to convince you that sometimes the private market screws the pooch, sometimes we get good programming? TLC and others are pretty useless as relates to the brand.

NASA still has it's own TV. So I can watch that instead of Honey Boo Boo.

It sucks a bunch of channels abandoned their brand, and their original mission. Change is like that. Each and every one of these should change the name.

7 dragonath  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 5:05:00pm

The Science Channel is owned by the guys who own TLC, which doesn't really give me a whole lot of hope for it's long term prospects. PBS is a non profit corporation with an explicit mission statement.

When programing comes down profit margins vs. science, science usually loses out. Past a certain horizon good information begins to be crowded out and watered down.

I don't have have anything against for-profit "science" channels but the current business environment supports sucking every last dollar out of the enterprise. Have you ever SEEN how many advertisements are on those channels?

8 Skip Intro  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 5:19:29pm

re: #7 dragonath

Have you ever SEEN how many advertisements are on those channels?

I was curious so I timed an hour of DIY just for kicks. It's a little tricky, since the shows on channels like this repeat themselves a lot, but basically I came up with 12 minutes of commercials/filler per 30 minutes of programming. I imagine that A&E, TLC, History, etc are basically the same.

9 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 5:25:05pm

re: #8 Skip Intro

I was curious so I timed an hour of DIY just for kicks. It's a little tricky, since the shows on channels like this repeat themselves a lot, but basically I came up with 12 minutes of commercials/filler per 30 minutes of programming. I imagine that A&E, TLC, History, etc are basically the same.

When you watch a stream version of a show episode, like from a network site or Hulu you can see the episode length right there in the window. Go to Hulu and look at an older series like "Adam-12" 54-56 minutes of show meant there were only 4-6 minutes of commercials per hour. Todays shows run 41-42 minutes so there are 18-19 minutes of commercials per hour.

I don't remember exactly but I think most half hour shows run about 21-23 minutes now, so 9-7 minutes of commercials per half hour.

10 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 5:27:34pm

re: #9 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

That's why so many shows are worlds better on disc. No commercials at all!

11 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 5:34:10pm

Destro and I have both missed a THE big question-Why does the audience not support better programming than what rates so very very well these days? Can't blame Reagan or privatization for audience tastes. So how did this come to be? Why does Honey Boo Boo Nielsen so well?

12 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:06:35pm

re: #11 Daniel Ballard

What are you watching right now? If you are like a growing number of households you are not even watching network or cable TV. You may be posting on a forum, watching a stream, playing a video game, listening to a music stream or library while reading some article on a website, the list goes on.

Personally I think that many of the more discerning and resourceful amongst this countries population have broken the TV addiction. They have simply found better things to do with their time than spend it on the wasteland of modern TV.

Which of course leaves, ...well...err...others to watch the network offerings and thus control the ratings. According to Nielson's own numbers some 40 million people in this country don't even watch TV anymore. How many people have you heard say that they have given up cable in the last couple of years? I have heard dozens for myself.

Maybe TV is becoming what it is simply because the people who still watch a lot of it want it that way?

13 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 6:58:00pm

re: #12 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

rhight then-I was watching Sons Of Guns a reality show that celebrates excellence in gunsmithing. And loud noises. Tonight a old friend is on it so I'm biased. :-)

D_L loves her geology shows. We DVR Through The Wormhole, Universe, lots of Discovery programming. The wife loves Numbers and CSI.

14 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 10, 2012 11:55:34pm

re: #3 Destro

If shows like this are popular the free market (private sector) makes more of them. Also, the cost of production is factored in - even if Americans are not into these shows they are so cheap to produce they can suffer a loss of viewers and still make mega bucks.

All this shows the inability for educational programing being a viable entity in a free market setting without govt subsidies.

Oh, I don't entirely disagree with you there. I think it's more cultural than anything IMO though. Me? I'm still pissed at what the history channel has become. People used to rag on it when it was the "Hitler Channel" but at least that's history. Not this stupid aliens crap and bizzaro reality shows.

15 iossarian  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 4:47:20am

re: #11 Daniel Ballard

Destro and I have both missed a THE big question-Why does the audience not support better programming than what rates so very very well these days? Can't blame Reagan or privatization for audience tastes. So how did this come to be? Why does Honey Boo Boo Nielsen so well?

The answer to your question, I think, is what proponents of state intervention in cultural activities have long been aware of: a lot of resource-intensive* art would not get made without the support of an enlightened group that is able to pay for it, either via the exploitation of social standing (e.g., the German aristocracy in the time of J. S. Bach) or via taxation (e.g., the current trend for local and national governments to subsidize opera houses and the like).

If you leave it to "the market" to decide, you won't get a whole lot of resource-intensive art. And that carries over into more general cultural products such as educational TV shows etc.

* By which I mean, art which cannot be produced without a lot of human effort being put into it. For example, live orchestral performances, which require a massive input of musical practice time per listener-hour compared to, say, rawk music.

16 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:04:08am

re: #13 Daniel Ballard

rhight then-I was watching Sons Of Guns a reality show that celebrates excellence in gunsmithing. And loud noises. Tonight a old friend is on it so I'm biased. :-)

D_L loves her geology shows. We DVR Through The Wormhole, Universe, lots of Discovery programming. The wife loves Numbers and CSI.

You know, Sons Of Guns and shows like that are copies of Public Broadcasting's "How to" shows that actually show you how to make the item (New Yankee Workshop).

That shitty show, "Sons Of Guns" never shows you actual fucking gunsmithing. It's a second or two of a worker on the lathe and then maybe them doing a 'prank' on the boss (all these shows follow a formula where they prank each other for fun. I have an airframe and powerplant backhround - not once did we horseplay or prank each other in shop) and the rest of the hour is spent shooting a weapon at some explosive targets.

Quality - fucking - television! Not.

17 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:36:35am

re: #16 Destro
So what? Tastes vary.

18 Skip Intro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:17:22am

re: #9 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I don't remember exactly but I think most half hour shows run about 21-23 minutes now, so 9-7 minutes of commercials per half hour.

I was interested in actual new content in these shows, which is why my number is higher. Really, do we need to have a recap of what just happened three minutes ago? Well, yes we do because that reduces the amount of original content and makes these shows even cheaper to produce.

19 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 1:06:34pm

re: #16 Destro

PBS

Previously Broadcast Sitcoms

Save Benny Hill!

20 dragonath  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 2:36:34pm

re: #19 Daniel Ballard

Holy cow! Are you seriously making that argument? You've never struck me as being particularly ideological but now you're just doing this willfully.

I wish my PBS would show more British programming, actually.

21 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 3:45:47pm

re: #20 dragonath

Just take that comment as directed at Destros' #16, nothing more. I just casually mentioned I was watching Sons of Guns as an old pal was on. That somehow provoked his attack on the show.

PBS has some great programming and some tired old stuff that are not the national treasure Sesame Street is. Much like commercial TV which has some great stuff and some abject awful programming.


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