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1 team_fukit  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:37:59am

I find messianic Judaism to be extremely distasteful, but I can’t begrudge their religious freedom or W.’s.

I’ve been trying to find this for awhile without any luck… does anyone remember that time when W. invited a Jewish group to the White House to light the menorah and it wasn’t fully disclosed that it was a Messianic Jewish group?

2 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:43:11am

“Messianic Jews” ARE NOT JEWS. They are Christian missionaries who pretend to be Jewish in order to entice vulnerable Jews.

Their primary targets are elderly, lonely Holocaust survivors. When they do manage to capture one poor, confused soul they wave it around like a trophy!

It is especially sickening that they manage to convince their targets that their loved ones, after suffering and dying in a Hell on Earth created by the nazis (who were mostly professing Christians and therefore “saved”), are suffering eternal Hell. That is so fucked up I can’t even…

3 CriticalDragon1177  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:44:29am

Velvet Elvis

You wrote,

Why does no one on the right have a problem with this?

I for one have a problem with it, and I can tell you with certainty we’re not the only people who take issue with this.

4 cat-tikvah  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:45:14am

Best (and most telling) line in this article: Another MJBI board member, Rabbi Marty Waldman of Baruch HaShem, a Messianic congregation in Dallas, described his own conversion experience before making a pitch to the audience to donate money to MJBI. Money, he explained, is needed to hasten the return of Jesus.

5 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:48:59am

Also too:

Missionaries defend their targeting of the elderly Holocaust survivors by claiming “the Jewish community has abandoned them…they have no friends…we give them comfort and companionship.”

This is pure bullshit. My kids are very active in the community and frequently pay visits to the elderly. At one time my son was reading Megillah for a Holocaust survivor when they were interrupted by a random cold call from a missionary asking if he had received the “Free Torah” (conversion literature) they sent.

The elderly Holocaust survivor told them to go fuck themselves.

6 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:14:14am

I’ve always wanted to start a rival organization, either Christians for Mohammed or Christians against Jesus.

7 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 8:37:57am

re: #6 Ace-o-aces

I’ve always wanted to start a rival organization, either Christians for Mohammed or Christians against Jesus.

Hindus against Krishna! But yeah I always felt these groups were silly because a fundamentalist tenet of Judaism is that Christ is not the Messiah. As VB already put it, these people aren’t Jewish. They’re Christians. And I honestly think it’s sick that their primary targets are Holocaust survivors. I’m not Jewish religiously or culturally but I really think the best way to respect teh Jewish people is to stop proselytizing them and begging them to find Christ.

8 team_fukit  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 9:27:51am

re: #2 Vicious Babushka

I used to think so too, that they couldn’t be real “Jews,” and Messianic Judaism in the United States certainly started out “Christian” that way with the endorsement of Moody Bible Institute in the 1920s. (Dan Cohn-Sherbok’s Messianic Judaism pointed out that the first “Jewish Studies” program in an American university was at Moody and designed to educate Christian missionaries)

I just think religious identity is more complicated than either/or sometimes (or maybe I’m tired of people telling me I’m not “really” Jewish because I converted and I’m Reform), so I’m not so quick anymore to dismiss their “Jewishness” as I used to be. I think now I’d just say they’re a new religious movement (that’s been around for a few generations) with both Christian and Jewish elements rather than coming down on one side or the other.

Reading Shoshanah Feher’s ethnographic study Passing Over Easter: Constructing the Boundaries of Messianic Judaism changed how I think about Messianic Judaism… they still piss me off for sure and I find most of them offensive ,but I’m not so quick to utterly dismiss them as not “real” Jews.

9 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 9:43:41am

re: #8 team_fukit

Messianics are mostly all Christians from an evangelistic background, with a sprinkling of actual Juice they have entrapped and wave around as trophies.

Reform consists primarily of actual Juice and they have a long history within Judaism.

Messianics will NEVER be accepted as a movement within Judaism, their roots are totally outside of Jews and Judaism except, as noted, for the few converts that they use as beards.

10 team_fukit  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 10:28:42am

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

I don’t disagree with you necessarily, but on the other hand I’ve met a couple of people through the years who were raised Messianic. Their parents had converted and raised them that way, so they’re not all converts (so to speak).

One of them attended the Christian college I went to and became the token on campus, they even asked her to lead Messianic seders to “educate” Christians. I would consider her to be mostly an Evangelical Christian. The other Messianic I’ve know I met in grad school, he identified as both halachically Jewish and Christian and is way more moderate/liberal than the Jews for Jesus crowd.

But predominantly, I think of Messianic Judaism as a fossil from the alleged “Judeo-Christian” consensus of the mid-20th century.

I don’t support Messianic Judaism, and none of the religious or secular Jews with whom I associate do either… please don’t get me wrong because I’m not white-knighting for Messianic Jews. I’m just trying to say that I think Jewish identity is usually more complicated than most people would like.

11 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Nov 9, 2013 11:07:40am

Spend all the money you want, this Jew ain’t converting.


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