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14 comments

1 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 12:05:42pm
See, here’s the great thing about the racket the NRA and the rest of the gunbros have going: We don’t need new laws, because we’re not enforcing the ones that we have; but, when it becomes inconvenient that we *are* enforcing the ones we have, we’ll write new ones.

And, of course, this is all OK because something something Constitution something FREEEEEEEEEDOM something molon labe something Bateman’s a commie.

- Casey Laughman

2 nines09  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 12:17:09pm

I hold the opinion that if you need to pack to go to the movies or grocery store, you are a paranoid coward. Carry a knife tough guy, and get close to your kill. The NRA is a bag of dog doo.

3 Ace-o-aces  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 12:23:23pm

Is this a response to this?

cbsnews.com

4 Jay in Oregon  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 4:04:54pm

Just as soon as Hannity moves there…

Image: r0AYH.gif

5 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 4:08:59pm

re: #3 Ace-o-aces

Is this a response to this?

cbsnews.com

Nominally, perhaps.

The issue lies with the lack of definition of threatened use of force, as with the Stand Your Ground law it’s supplementing.

6 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 4:09:43pm

re: #3 Ace-o-aces

It goes far beyond that, and apparently was written by the NRA.

The bill is sponsored chiefly by two National Rifle Association members, Republicans Sen. Greg Evers and Rep. Neil Combee, with a longstanding history of support for the gun lobby. But they did not write the bill, one of the legislators told Gawker in an interview: That honor fell to former NRA president and current gun lobbyist Marion Hammer.

.

The current bill would amend the state’s expansive Stand Your Ground law—which permits residents to use deadly force in numerous circumstances—so that it also allows the nebulous “threatened use of force.” In effect, it means that gun owners could walk free for brandishing their gun in a threatening manner or firing a shot indiscriminately to “warn” a potential assailant.

That also means gun owners would get blanket immunity from the state’s “10-20-life” law, which mandates an automatic 10-year sentence for anyone accused of flashing or using a gun in the commission of a felony. Numerous Florida politicians, including Jeb Bush, have long credited that measure with significantly decreasing the state’s gun crimes.

gawker.com

7 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 4:17:32pm

re: #2 nines09

I hold the opinion that if you need to pack to go to the movies or grocery store, you are a paranoid coward. Carry a knife tough guy, and get close to your kill. The NRA is a bag of dog doo.

Unless of course it’s a place so dangerous that a person needs a weapon at all times. Like Afghanistan or Somalia.

In which case I wouldn’t carry. I’d get away. Far, far away.

8 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 4:34:15pm

re: #3 Ace-o-aces

Is this a response to this?

cbsnews.com

Yes, it is. Marissa Alexander was not the type of person the ‘10-20-Life’ law was meant to punish, and the currently proposed law is in large part intended to address the legal thicket that caused her to be sentenced to 20 years. In fact, as currently written the law would vacate the charges against Ms. Alexander.

Also, several in the group spoke bitterly against the 10-20-Life law when Alexander was sentenced. A law has now been proposed to correct the injustice of that sentence. If folks here oppose the new proposal, then they should state what they think the law ought to be instead.

9 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 4:38:56pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Miss this part, did you?

That also means gun owners would get blanket immunity from the state’s “10-20-life” law, which mandates an automatic 10-year sentence for anyone accused of flashing or using a gun in the commission of a felony. Numerous Florida politicians, including Jeb Bush, have long credited that measure with significantly decreasing the state’s gun crimes.

10 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 5:10:12pm

re: #9 Skip Intro

I didn’t miss it, I was just saying that people here had been yelling about that law before, and now you seem to favor it.

11 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 5:25:35pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

I didn’t miss it, I was just saying that people here had been yelling about that law before, and now you seem to favor it.

People were taking exception to the application of law to Marisa Alexander firing a warning shot, and saying that it’s silly in the context of her attempting to defend herself against her ex-husband, a direct threat to her within a specific, well-described context.

It does not follow that a blanket rule that waives penalties for brandishing a weapon or discharging one, under the incredibly vague terms of the law as written, is somehow continuous with and justified by her specific circumstances.

Vindicating Marisa Alexander is a happy by-blow of a sweeping law that changes how private citizens can apply the threat of violence to their interactions.

12 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 7:01:13pm

Looks to me like any language that sets aside self defense as immune from that law is going to be characterised as a very bad thing. Nuance appears to beyond both sides in Florida. Frankly I wash my hands of all of them.

SYG has to be limited to a proper response to an actual, not potential threat-At The Very Least. There is very good reson the Supreme court limited the stand your ground concept to home, on your property and at your business. Not on the sidewalk, not at the theater, not in a car. That decision is from horse and buggy days but the concept remains. Out in public is very different from at home.

Jailing a person for brandishing a gun in a legit self defense context is s screw job worthy of places that regularly violated the right to bear arms liker DC and Illinois.

13 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 8:11:37pm

re: #12 Political Atheist

Nuance doesn’t work well for laws intended for life-or-death situations. Someone comes at you with a baseball bat, you don’t have time to think things through; You have to react by either running or preparing to fight.

14 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 8:33:17pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

Just the “nuance” between an old man shooting a person for texting in a theater then throwing popcorn and say a woman brandishing and firing a warning shot at an abuser is what is apparently beyond both sides in Florida.

Let alone the real nuances of defensive combat between innocents and desperate predators. 65,000 times a year a gun fired in defense protects an innocent civilian from a predator. 65,000 times the “less likely” became the real. But if you ask some, that’s not nearly enough to justify having a gun for defense and preparing accordingly. Just because accidents & suicides happen.


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