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19 comments

1 freetoken  Oct 22, 2014 6:05:43am

Assuming all the evidence does see light of day, perhaps none of the claims made by the parties involved will prove particularly convincing in the end.

2 Danny Isn't Here Mrs Torrence  Oct 22, 2014 6:29:15am

The two current autopsy reports are largely consistent. It’s the various analyses of the autopsy that don’t agree (and likely never will).

3 Lumberhead  Oct 22, 2014 7:03:03am
Experts told the newspaper Brown was shot Aug. 9., at close range — and may have been reaching for Wilson’s weapon.

This accounts for the first two shots and could back up the claim of a struggle in/at the vehicle. It doesn’t account for the shots that were fired when they were much farther apart. That is when the eyewitnesses say that he was surrendering and I haven’t seen anything today that disputes that other than Wilson’s account.

I could easily have missed it but I don’t think I’ve seen anything regarding this autopsy report that states how far apart they were when the other, much larger number of shots were fired.

I’m probably looking at this with biased eyes but much of the reporting I’ve seen seems to say that this report backs up Wilson’s account when it should say it backs up part of his account. For example, the article says:

Melinek, who was not involved in the investigation, said the autopsy did not support those who claim Brown was attempting to flee or surrender.

But nowhere in the article does it say anything about what distance the majority of the shots were fired from.

4 Ace-o-aces  Oct 22, 2014 8:57:11am

This is BS. It’s already been established that at least one shot went off while Brown was near the car.

5 Targetpractice  Oct 22, 2014 9:55:57am

re: #2 Danny

The two current autopsy reports are largely consistent. It’s the various analyses of the autopsy that don’t agree (and likely never will).

Indeed, the media seems to be seeking out experts who look at the new report and say that they see evidence that Brown struggled with Wilson over the gun, accounting for the presence of GSR in his hand wound. But it should be noted that they’re not directly contradicting Dr. Baden’s conclusion that there was no evidence on Brown’s body consistent with a physical struggle.

6 lostlakehiker  Oct 22, 2014 10:34:50am

re: #3 Lumberhead

This accounts for the first two shots and could back up the claim of a struggle in/at the vehicle. It doesn’t account for the shots that were fired when they were much farther apart. That is when the eyewitnesses say that he was surrendering and I haven’t seen anything today that disputes that other than Wilson’s account.

I could easily have missed it but I don’t think I’ve seen anything regarding this autopsy report that states how far apart they were when the other, much larger number of shots were fired.

I’m probably looking at this with biased eyes but much of the reporting I’ve seen seems to say that this report backs up Wilson’s account when it should say it backs up part of his account. For example, the article says:

But nowhere in the article does it say anything about what distance the majority of the shots were fired from.

You did miss something. The article includes this text:

A forensic pathologist from San Francisco, Dr. Judy Melinek, says based on a bullet wound to Brown’s arm, Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson in the standard surrender position - with hands up and palms out - when he was shot…

If Melinek is correct, there is physical evidence that conflicts with some witness accounts.

7 klys  Oct 22, 2014 10:45:27am

re: #6 lostlakehiker

You did miss something. The article includes this text:

If Melinek is correct, there is physical evidence that conflicts with some witness accounts.

The article may have included the text you cited at one point but no longer does.

Just to let you know.

8 lostlakehiker  Oct 22, 2014 11:22:24am

My slipup. I thought that the CBS report I was reading was quoting from the original article. But evidently, not exclusively.

CBS report
Quoting from the CBS report, which cites the Post Dispatch but is worded in a way that leaves open the possibility that it’s also drawing on other sources [which is where I made my mistake]

The Post-Dispatch also had three experts examine the official autopsy.

St. Louis medical examiner Dr. Michael Graham says the report supports claims that there was a “significant struggle” in Wilson’s patrol car, and Brown suffered a hand wound at “relatively short range.”

A forensic pathologist from San Francisco, Dr. Judy Melinek, says based on a bullet wound to Brown’s arm, Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson in the standard surrender position - with hands up and palms out - when he was shot, and Brown was falling forward or lunging when he was hit by the fatal shot to the top of his head.

9 leftynyc  Oct 22, 2014 11:31:32am

May have reached for the gun? This case belongs in front of a jury. There is no way this should be left in the hands of a DA who has such close ties to the police.

10 Lumberhead  Oct 22, 2014 11:32:39am

re: #7 klys

The article may have included the text you cited at one point but no longer does.

Just to let you know.

Thank you for pointing that out. Additionally, I wrote:

I could easily have missed it but I don’t think I’ve seen anything regarding this autopsy report that states how far apart they were when the other, much larger number of shots were fired.

I’m probably looking at this with biased eyes but much of the reporting I’ve seen seems to say that this report backs up Wilson’s account when it should say it backs up part of his account. For example, the article says:

But nowhere in the article does it say anything about what distance the majority of the shots were fired from.

The quote from another article does not address my point that the reporting on the outside analysis makes no mention of the distance between the two individuals when most of the shots were fired.

11 Vogon Poetry  Oct 22, 2014 11:35:51am

Three autopsies were conducted. The first was by the county. The second was done at the behest of the family by Dr. Baden. The third was done on behalf of the DoJ.

The Baden results found that there were no signs of wounds consistent with a struggle. It found multiple gunshot wounds, including the head, arm, and torso. That autopsy didn’t have access to GSR results or the clothes Brown wore at the time of the shooting.

The way the official autopsy results were leaked, it’s meant to give the impression that Brown was shot and that Wilson was justified. The local ME claims there was a significant struggle, and the hand wound was sustained at short range (not exactly clear what that is - is it 6 inches? 6 feet? 3 feet? GSR was found on Brown, but that doesn’t prove that Brown was threatening Wilson, or that Brown grabbed for the gun in the car.

It also doesn’t counter other evidence that noted that shots were fired in or near the car, before Brown began running away and ultimately turned around and showed signs of surrendering.

Wilson shot him even after putting his hands up. Brown was not a threat at that point. Wilson could have waited for backup to complete the arrest. Instead, he kept shooting until Brown was dead, and then went underground all so he can appear before a grand jury to claim that he felt he was threatened and ultimately justified to use deadly force.

It’s easy to claim deadly force when the victim is dead. The problem is that the other witnesses and audio evidence, combined with what forensics have been gleaned show that Brown was unarmed and not a threat to Wilson when he shot and killed Brown.

12 wrenchwitch  Oct 22, 2014 11:49:25am
Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco, said the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” She added, “If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, he’s going for the officer’s gun.”

From here, which is co-written by Christine Byers, who tweeted about the case when she was on leave.

I don’t see how this: “If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, he’s going for the officer’s gun.” can be taken as anything other than speculation of the sort anybody can make, no matter their access to autopsy reports or witnesses. A hand near a weapon when it goes off can just as easily be attributed to self defense.

This is what Byers tweeted nine days after Michael Brown’s murder:

I don’t think the paper should continue to let her write on the subject.

13 klys  Oct 22, 2014 12:13:15pm
14 Lumberhead  Oct 22, 2014 12:21:02pm

re: #12 wrenchwitch

Also, as Charles reported back in August:

St. Louis Post-Dispatch Is Trying to Get Michael Brown’s Juvenile Records

It doesn’t necessarily mean anything but it is something to note.

15 wrenchwitch  Oct 22, 2014 12:26:14pm

re: #13 klys

[Embedded content]

re: #14 Lumberhead

Also, as Charles reported back in August:

St. Louis Post-Dispatch Is Trying to Get Michael Brown’s Juvenile Records

It doesn’t necessarily mean anything but it is something to note.

There’s a one-two punch combo.

16 Vicious Piebola  Oct 22, 2014 12:39:44pm
17 wrenchwitch  Oct 22, 2014 12:54:15pm

Melineck shouldn’t even be commenting about someone else’s autopsy, if she wants to be consistent.

There is a big difference between the examination of Michael Brown’s undisturbed body during the first, legally-mandated autopsy, performed by the St. Louis medical examiner, and the follow-up examination done days later on his washed and embalmed cadaver. In the embalming process, preservative fluids are injected into the arteries and organs using a sharp tool called a trocar. The trocar pokes holes in the organs. The preservative fluid in the blood vessels pushes the blood ahead of it to the site of any injuries. These changes, which we call “embalming artifact,” can exaggerate the size and shape of injuries.

Even if Dr. Baden, a board-certified forensic pathologist, looked at photos of the injuries taken prior to the embalming, the orientation and quality of the photos taken by the technician would influence his interpretation of the findings. Autopsy means “see for yourself”—and there is no substitute for seeing the undisturbed body for yourself if you are going to be offering opinions with legal ramifications.

That was posted to her blog less than two weeks after Michael Brown’s murder. Also linked in that post is her article posted at CNN. From that:

From the perspective of a witness, it could appear that the leaning person is complying with the officer and getting down. From the perspective of the officer, he may appear to be coming at him. Partial evidence yields partial answers, and a rush to conclusions based on one isolated set of data from a second autopsy only raises more questions.

That is why it is so important to be patient and wait for all the scene information to come to light.

But “be patient and wait” is not a demand that anyone has the right to make on a family that has lost a loved one in a sudden and violent event. When I have been assigned to investigate an in-custody or officer-involved death, I will often call the family right away.

It’s important to me to reach out to them, to tell the people who are awaiting answers from me that I am qualified to do the job I am trained for; that I will hide nothing from them; that everything I do on their behalf will be part of the public record; and to give them some idea of how long the process might take.

When the report is finished, I meet with family members or their attorneys to discuss the findings and explain the medical diagnoses I have come to. This solemn conference takes place behind the scenes, months after the incident, and is never reported in the news media — but it is probably the most important part of my job.

As a doctor and a civil servant, I take my public role seriously. I strive to with all my ability, training and effort to answer any questions that person’s family may have. I know that others in my field strive with the same effort. It’s why we went into our field of medicine. We are servants of the public — not of the state, not of any single law firm, and not of the police.

Where is her concern for the victim’s family now?

18 Lumberhead  Oct 22, 2014 1:04:57pm

The unfortunate thing is that the report was successful in that a new narrative has now been set. Virtually every outlet is reporting that the autopsy supports Wilson’s account of what happened.

19 Desmond  Oct 22, 2014 1:35:55pm

This seems so similar to the Travyon Martin case, in that the essential facts are in danger of being obscured by leaks meant to smear the victim and paint him as a terrible person capable of anything. The crucial fact in both cases is that that an unarmed teenager was killed needlessly.

The point is that even if Brown did struggle for the officer’s gun, that doesn’t prove in any way that he was justified in gunning him down in the street. Multiple eyewitnesses support the version that Brown had his hands up. What exactly did these other witnesses mentioned in the articles as “supporting Officer Wilson’s account” see? Have we heard anything from them before?


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