re: #167 3eff Jeff

And I should be clear: when I made the ‘lawful evil’ comment above. Anymore, ‘evil’ really means other humans making decisions I disagree with.

The greek organizations had developed into a really broken system by the time I encountered it. (My college band got denied a spot in a talent show because our anti-daterape audition song was “too controversial”; I did not realize this was a debate with two sides until that incident. The interfraternity council had a significant number of representatives amongst the organizers of the show.) At the same time, I knew decent human beings who were fraternity members (I had a really good high school friend join the frat which had the suicide incident).

I’ve also been a part of companies that do things that I strongly disagree with, and I’ve had to personally partake in those things. (I’m ideologically opposed to DRM. I helped maintain a DRM system for a previous employer.) We’re humans. We’re complicated. So, I do believe you, even if I am taking a hard line on the other side in this thread.

I think my main point in engaging is to represent that there are decent people in the fraternal organizations trying to do the right thing. And some of the organizations are trying to improve things at all levels. There is internal resistance, and also complacency at times. And there are a lot of broken things as well.

Fraternities are a bit of a poster child for a lot of things wrong in our youth and college cultures. And they stick out particularly well since if you ask them what they are about you can get lots of nice words about principles, etc. Which are the opposite of many of their observed behaviors.

I definitely do not hold up the fraternity I belong to as a completely stellar example. We’ve had our incidents,* and there has been complacency and resistance to changing behaviors and trying to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

* - e.g. hazing incidents (but no deaths), alcohol abuse, etc. But I’ve also seen chapters closed and some serious work done attempting to stamp this out and make clear there are things that the membership should not tolerate. The one member death I know of that was not related to an automobile accident is a bit bizarre to describe.