Thinking that there is no morality without religious instruction can only undermine religion, whose laws if they are enforced by men are a framework for justice, not in themselves the motivation of those who keep the laws. In other words I will acknowledge a good thing and avoid a bad thing because that is simply how I and most people are predisposed, not only because there is (necessarily) a social system of reward and punishment.

re: #194 ploome hineni

well….I guess that question is too complicated

so all I get are cutsie phrases

so much for any notion of intellectual honesty

that is what I have no respect for them

Ploome dismisses a pertinent answer, a central point: atheists do have morality. Where they get it from might be interesting, but the answer is not “religion”. I’ve watched Ploome fail totally to withstand any discussion of the issue, instead ignoring valid points with catty one-liners, and know from past experience that this is routine conduct for Ploome. Many people I can disagree with respectfully. In this case even if I agreed I would strugglle to summon any respect.