re: #392 marjoriemoon

A newborn is a 100% fully born human with as many human rights as any other…. A human fetus is not fully human, that is, if it cannot survive outside the womb and in the first trimester, it cannot.

As I’ve said before, there’s room for disagreement regarding what it means to be “fully human”. But IMO “can survive outside the womb” is one of the weakest possible definitions, because it depends on medical technology. A good friend of mine had a 25-week preemie a while back; twenty years ago the kid wouldn’t have had a chance, and in a third-world country he wouldn’t have had a chance. What if technology advances to the point where you can stick a fertilized egg in a test tube and bring it all the way to maturity? By your definition, at that point, fertilization would make it fully human. So I find your definition to be really, really weak.

But then, I can’t really say I have a “good” definition. Some will argue that since we can’t know, “conception” is the safest choice. Others will argue for having a heartbeat or brain activity. I’ve heard some people argue that “consciousness” starts to arise in the middle of the 2nd trimester, and that would be a good cutoff. And, of course, I’ve heard parents joke that their kids don’t count until they get a job ;)

Anyway, the point is, those in the poll for the most part are going with one of the early definitions for “fully human”, and therefore, they view even early abortions as murder. You might disagree with them, but that’s due to legitimate disagreement on definition, not due to malice, evil, or stupidity on anyone’s part.

I just find it completely bizarre that the same people who are so outspoken against abortion when the life is yet to be born can so completely agree (by 91%!) to kill another human being

Right — because you’re still thinking in terms of “fully human” vs “not human”, while they’re thinking in terms of “innocent and harmless” vs “guilty and dangerous”. If you start from the assumption that a fertilized egg counts as “fully human” and that you should only kill humans in response to certain capital crimes, their position makes perfect sense. If you start from the assumption that viability is required for “full humanity” and that you should never kill a human if you can help it, your position makes perfect sense.