re: #47 Sergey Romanov

They protest what they think is overbroad surveillance. Spying on a community? Well, if there were evidence that it produces more than an average number of troublemakers, maybe there would be a reason. As such, one must survey radicals, radical mosques etc. Same as with churches, synagogues…

Just to be sure we’re all on the same page here, in his #31 Killgore linked to an article about the “the Moroccan Initiative” saying that he’d looked into things a few days ago and that the “OWS idiots” were rallying against that surveillance program.

Then in his #36 he claimed that the people at the OWS rally—presumably Muslims since he posted no less than 3 photos of Muslim women wearing hijab—were protesting “NYPD surveillance of Muslim terrorism suspects”.

I took the time to read both articles he posted. As a matter of fact, I read them multiple times to ensure I wasn’t misunderstanding anything and to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The AP article is quite clear that the NYPD program was NOT launched due to any wrongdoing or suspicious behavior on the part of the Moroccan community, but was instead based purely on ethnicity and was only the beginning of a broader plan. From the article (added emphasis mine):

The documents describe in extraordinary detail a secret program intended to catalog life inside Muslim neighborhoods as people immigrated, got jobs, became citizens and started businesses. The documents undercut the NYPD’s claim that its officers only follow leads when investigating terrorism.

It started with one group, Moroccans, but the documents show police intended to build intelligence files on other ethnicities.

Undercover officers snapped photographs of restaurants frequented by Moroccans, including one that was noted for serving “religious Muslims.” Police documented where Moroccans bought groceries, which hotels they visited and where they prayed. While visiting an apartment used by new Moroccan immigrants, an officer noted in his reports that he saw two Qurans and a calendar from a nearby mosque.

It was called the Moroccan Initiative.

The information was recorded in NYPD computers, officials said, so that if police ever received a specific tip about a Moroccan terrorist, officers looking for him would have details about the entire community at their fingertips. […]

In early meetings, police were told there was no specific threat to New York from Moroccans, officials said, but they were instructed to gather intelligence on the Moroccan community because of concerns Moroccan terrorists might strike here too. […]

Browne, the department’s spokesman, has said the unit only followed leads. There is no indication in the documents, however, that police were only investigating criminal leads. Information about crimes was included in the Moroccan Initiative files, but these do not appear to be the program’s focus. […]

The article goes on and on. In essence, the NYPD was/is acting as an intelligence agency and amassing information in the best J. Edgar Hoover tradition.

I repeat, the above surveillance program is the same one that Killgore described as “NYPD surveillance of Muslim terrorism suspects” and that he ridiculed the OWS protesters, with emphasis on the Muslims among them, for rallying against.

If Killgore wants to have an “honest debate”, then instead of snarking at me for bringing facts to the table, he ought to try bringing some honesty to the table himself. I’m not some fucking hot-headed, hyper-partisan moonbat prone to public knee-jerk responses who’s going to chomp down on every fucking piece of bait he dangles in the water without checking for a hook first.