re: #596 Obdicut

First of all, I think that most people who are ‘pro-torture’ here— and by that I mean those who, unlike myself, endorse the use of torture as an intelligence-gathering tool in some circumstances— would be fine with the same ‘torture’ being applied to these Hutaree people as to KSM and the rest. I do not think there is the kind of inconsistency you think there is. If LE had reason to believe there was an imminent, unthwarted threat from the Hutaree, I think that those who support torture— waterboarding, etc.— would support its use in this case.

I do not support torture. I consider anyone who supports the use of waterboarding to be at the best severely misguided. However, I do not think the support for is as tied to hatred or double-standards for Muslims as you think.

What bothers me is the complete abandonment of any moral standards for the treatment of captured prisoners. Notice that the first thing that was brought up by my opponents was U.S. citizenship. Not that torture is morally wrong. Not that torture is completely ineffective at producing actionable intelligence. But that they are U.S. citizens so they shouldn’t be tortured. Nevermind that the Bush administration has already made it legal to detain any U.S. citizen they deem a terrorist indefinitely without charge or trial.

The point is that treatment of a human being should not differ based on their nationality, race or religion. And that nobody should be tortured by the U.S. government, citizen or not. What’s scary is that so many people don’t realize that even your U.S. citizenship can’t save you. That even a U.S. citizen can be legally “disappeared” by the Government with no trial and no due process. Indefinitely.