re: #678 ludwigvanquixote

I hear that. However the case of case one would be those three Haredi who pushed through the square. They were pretty wretched too. The problem with people in case two is they think everyone who is into the Tradition must somehow fall into case one or be otherwise mentally deficient.

Yes. They’re case 1 and they’re wretched. But this is case 2 on your analysis:

There is also the total arrogant jerk who thinks they know it all about the religion and say all manner of hateful things about it, even though they never really learned it and don’t know a damn thing about it. They project all manner of falsehoods onto it. An example would be the “clear power imbalance between Jewish men and women in prayer that I am somehow blind to” when the Tradition if anything favors women. There are things that certain observant Jews do that are in my opinion terrible for women - and there are also lots of arguments within the Law for why they should not do it that way, but prayer is not one of them. The central Jewish women’s issue with certain sets of observant Jews who fall into class one is agunot. Certain Haredi sects views on tsniut also get way out of hand. I even mentioned that, but my interlocutor doesn’t even know what that is.

I would argue that case 2 is worse, because it isn’t merely a matter of some jerk making a show of outward piety while being a prick in self serving ways. (your case 1)

2, as you’ve outlined it, is about someone who is being an “total arrogant jerk who thinks they know it all about the religion and say all manner of hateful things about it, even though they never really learned it and don’t know a damn thing about it. They project all manner of falsehoods onto it.”

That’s someone who is corrupting the faith.
Case 1 is some selfserving prick; case 2 is someone who is harming the faith by corrupting its doctrines and projecting their corrupted twisted version as true.

Short version.